Chat:World/2022-06-23

Jonafriend: ^^^

miobyte: :nerd:

cryingsun: hi

mdfarhansadiq: :D

jacek: :upside_down:

antiwonto: [auto] ':upside_down:' was defined as ' ɥǝllo '

Mengshang: :neutral_face:

lifetimeLearner007: do we get the info on how many cards are left at each location or do we have to track? what about bonus and techDebt cards in the board?

antiwonto: [auto] Hey lifetimeLearner007, here is a :taco: for loggin in today while it is quiet. You now have 1 tacos

jwpapi: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/e9b8b6d0-0bb3-4cbf-b17e-47658d397a32

jwpapi: why is it not reaching the second 'Hello' ?

jwpapi: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/425296b7-8a9b-429d-bd9d-eb666f45bf00

jwpapi: it’s codegolf sorry for the names

jwpapi: ahh I found the error

jacek: invalid paste

jwpapi: jacek how is it invalid I pasted right in here

jacek: welp this is chat bug

jwpapi: I solved my problem shall I still paste?

jacek: its alright

jwpapi: actually still have a problem

jwpapi: https://pastebin.com/CYChQt6G

jwpapi: Don’t worry about the other stuff, but it never reaches step2

jwpapi: ahh got it now!

jacek: :tada:

gfhnpkv: any one know what the version of the python?

gfhnpkv: cuz i cant use match case

Uljahn: 3.9.12 https://www.codingame.com/playgrounds/40701/help-center/languages-versions

gfhnpkv: rip it is in 3.10

gfhnpkv: it will update?

Uljahn: Automaton2000: one can only hope

Automaton2000: premature optimization is the root of all evil

j4at: time to update to 3.11.0 beta 4 :p

j4at: It's x1.5 faster than 3.9 so It will lower servers costs. Mostly bc python is the most popular language in the website + its slow

Mortis_666: lmao boss in silver league timed out

DomiKo: jacek first draw against robo :D https://www.codingame.com/replay/644991991

jacek: :tada:

eulerscheZahl: congrats, but wrong game

DomiKo: nahhh

wlesavo: euler its the right one, but the last frame is somewhat buged

eulerscheZahl: i mean: he should play the contest instead

wlesavo: ooh :smiley:

eulerscheZahl: thought it was obvious

wlesavo: it probably is but i spend whole minute trying to figure out how is that a tie

wlesavo: btw do you plan to play new raic?

eulerscheZahl: probably

eulerscheZahl: have to figure out their new platform. lots of Russian

eulerscheZahl: no tshirts?

jacek: hmm this contest has t-shirts?

eulerscheZahl: no

jacek: :(

jacek: i wanted refurbished t-shirt

wlesavo: there are tshirts, but no sweetshots

eulerscheZahl: i understand that they don't want to shoot

eulerscheZahl: even if candies

wlesavo: for participants in final there will be some weird prizes, im not sure even what it is

eulerscheZahl: free cloud computing worth X rubles? :D

eulerscheZahl: not sure how hard i will try. I want to go a bit more towards topcoder for practice

wlesavo: i think it is some russian alexa analogue :slight_smile:

eulerscheZahl: do i have to create a new account on the RAIC website or can i somehow claim my old one?

wlesavo: i really like the raic theme, but again wont have much time, i hope to get to finals, but then ill have to leave for vacation, and probably wont be able to proceed

wlesavo: oh, i dont know, i just logged in with google

Quidome: what is RAIC?

eulerscheZahl: the old RAIC contests were migrated to the new website

eulerscheZahl: russian AI cup

eulerscheZahl: i saw my username on the new website and would prefer to keep using that account. i used email+password on the old platform (i don't even remember if they offered alternatives)

wlesavo: yeah, i think i logged in with the same email, but there are no previous raic results in my profile, so i cant figure out if it is the same account or another one

eulerscheZahl: a previous RAIC with a game similar to rocket league https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p73XwFCbkA&ab_channel=AndreyLama

eulerscheZahl: those are like "wood rules", in the end you had nitro and 3 robots per team

aCat: If I haver time I will at least look at RAIC

aCat: never participated before :(

MSmits: ahh finally i found my bug, been stuck for half a day :P

eulerscheZahl: i'm stuck for several already. and my attempt to change search type doesn't look good either :(

jacek: you fixed bug and it got worse?

eulerscheZahl: i have no bugs that i'm aware of. just a terrible bot in general

darkhorse64: legend is going to be insanely difficult

jacek: its quite random you still have a chance

eulerscheZahl: tbh i'm happy if i reach legend this contest

eulerscheZahl: would be the first time that i miss it

j4at: there is first time for everything

eulerscheZahl: :(

MSmits: usually legend ends up having 130 players or so. This is a game with a lot of randomness. Someone will push you in I think euler

MSmits: otherwise just fit your bot to be anti-goldboss

eulerscheZahl: my submit are always around the same rank. i don't believe in a lucky push

MSmits: but maybe the lucky push believes in you

MSmits: i think I just had my last major improvement for this bot, will have to create a new seach to improve further

MSmits: it's a good one though, 68% WR vs old bot

jacek: *10 bugs later* maybe not

MSmits: well i am always hoping for more bugs of course

MSmits: my bot now searches iteratively with greater play depth, sometimes up to 7

MSmits: (meaning 7 skill cards played in a row)

MSmits: most turns fully searched

MSmits: some exceptions, then it stops when out of time

darkhorse64: Argh, when your new bot ranks lower than the previous one and when resubmitting the old one ranks even lower

MSmits: heh yeah

MSmits: I'm curious about jace k's bot

MSmits: hope he will do a pm

MSmits: (dont tell us now though)

j4at: isn't he is using a NN

darkhorse64: I am curious about all search bots

j4at: ?

MSmits: no idea j4at

jacek: printing 3rd action

jacek: no one goes that far

jacek: im scared trying 4th

MSmits: I'm dreading trying new search, but i guess I have to.

MSmits: so much work =/

MSmits: eulerscheZahl did you try psy ho's method?

MSmits: i mean i understand it's no guarantee. There are 100s of choices to make in that type of search

darkhorse64: 8h30 stream :zzz:

MSmits: no no, he explained it here

MSmits: the idea is easy to grasp

eulerscheZahl: best i can do with the approach so far is beating bottom gold on occasion

MSmits: ah i see

MSmits: so you did try that

MSmits: it's actually more your style

MSmits: this search type

MSmits: maybe dont give up yet :)

therealbeef: what did he use?

therealbeef: *does

MSmits: MC till end of game

MSmits: with heuristics for players

therealbeef: without tree?

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: tree is impossible, except on your own first turn, up until the first training of coding card

MSmits: or

MSmits: random kills it

jacek: still he could use UCB for first ply

MSmits: yes he could

eulerscheZahl: i would still have to come up with heuristics. tried more of the illedan route (random for 3 turns and eval final state)

MSmits: use mcts type search up to move + throw/give even

MSmits: and first card

eulerscheZahl: also used a single-player search. setting opponent location to -1 after my first turn

MSmits: is that any good?

MSmits: seems much easier to me

eulerscheZahl: total garbage

MSmits: are you sure the approach is bad or did it maybe have bugs?

eulerscheZahl: i'm not sure about anything

MSmits: how about giving the opponent a random location

MSmits: instead of -1

eulerscheZahl: i don't think this will change anything except making it even more unreliable for my bot

MSmits: yeah it might

MSmits: i think the opponent -1 method isnt much worse than psyho's method early game but that it gets bad near the end

MSmits: psyho's method converges on reality

MSmits: I am actually not that worried about coding the sim and search, but I have no idea how to make a heuristic bot for this

MSmits: the whole idea about my current bot is avoiding that :)

philipplenk: I wouldn't say tree is impossible(source: i use one and get a reasonably decent rank ~20)

MSmits: how deep does the tree go?

MSmits: beyond the current turn?

philipplenk: yes, open loop mcts

MSmits: whats open loop?

eulerscheZahl: and what to do with random cards? just assign some at random to you?

MSmits: oh it is like smitsimax!

philipplenk: dont store the states, store only statisticts and recreate state when traversing

MSmits: nodes do not correspond to states

MSmits: just to sequences of actions

Sheeesh---: is there away to know how many cards left on desk or should i just count ?

philipplenk: exactly

eulerscheZahl: 5 - your cards - opponent cards (or 36 for bonus)

jacek: hm? sequence of actions in node?

jacek: like storing A->B->C?

jacek: in single node?

MSmits: philipplenk you can keep this approach and replace the random rollout with heuristically chosen actions

MSmits: then it should maybe be better than psy ho's method

aCat: yeah but here is wide choice

Illedan: Is Release a node? Or only the Move?

MSmits: jacek no, every action is a node

aCat: starting with 'predefined heuristic' or random heuristic

philipplenk: I am trying that, my rollouts are not completely random, but my heuristics are horrible xD

MSmits: but the node has a specific sequence of actions that leads to it

MSmits: but i am explaining my interpretation, we have the creator here :P

kovi: then i dont see what node represents after a while (why would it converge)

MSmits: kovi it might not converge, but is it worse than total MC with heuristics?

MSmits: because that is what the nr 1 uses

kovi: maybe just do node for 1 turn then random rollouts

MSmits: yeah might be better, hard to say here. It's such a weird game

philipplenk: I think it should converge with enough time. A node represents - eventually - the expected value after executing that sequence of moves. I hope

MSmits: yes, but you kill the ability for your bot to respond properly to a lucky card draw

MSmits: which heuristics can

philipplenk: True

MSmits: your search responds to the average card draw

MSmits: more or less

MSmits: MC will try all those possible draws and then respond differently to each one

philipplenk: Makes sense

kovi: yes, that mean tree reuse is not possible

MSmits: assumign the heuristics have some flexibility

MSmits: well i wasnt even considering reuse, that seems unimportant

kovi: becuase of no states? true

MSmits: even in simple boardgames that gives small benefit

MSmits: i guess because you move several times in a row here, the benefit would be larger

MSmits: yeah if you have a tree that includes move, throw, give etc. You could reuse

MSmits: more opportunity to introduce bugs though :)

Nerchio: duck will be first again soon xd

Sheeesh---: slowly but surely

jacek: :duck:

Psyho: depends who submits

Psyho: I believe I have around 60% WR over duck

Nerchio: i hope my current bot wil be enough for legend :D

MSmits: same

MSmits: maybe not on the initial promotion, but soon after

Nerchio: but it seems like one of those games where spamming submits will work at some point

MSmits: that's my hope :)

MSmits: it always works to some extent, because you are pushing the bots that are strong against you, out of the league

MSmits: leaving only the bots that are weak vs you, and the boss

MSmits: which means a 51% WR vs bot is enough

MSmits: vs boss

elderlybeginner: what's your approach to choosing an action in PLAY_CARD pahse?

elderlybeginner: I guess I won't get to gold with random

MSmits: I do a full search of my turn and evaluate the end result

MSmits: which means move+give+throw+play+release

MSmits: on carddraw (training/coding) I weigh each possible draw by probability of it ocurring

MSmits: so a really rare combination of 2 cards drawn will not count for as much

elderlybeginner: how do you score evaluation?

elderlybeginner: or better when you release and when you don't release?

MSmits: this is mostly secret (for competitive reasons), but you can think about the obvious like scoring technical debt and finishing apps.

elderlybeginner: simplifiing how much technical debt is still worth to release?

MSmits: i have mine limited to at most 2, but if i set it to a different value, i dont get a different bot

elderlybeginner: I really don't like this contest, so my competiveness will end if I get into gold with smallest possible effort :joy:

MSmits: i also score technical debt separately so my bot will avoid getting too much anyways

Rafarafa: is there a way to test my bot without using the codingame arena? it's too slow :(

antiwonto: [auto] Hey Rafarafa, here is a :taco: for loggin in today while it is quiet. You now have 1 tacos

elie.f.asmar: Hello guys,

elie.f.asmar: In the "solution" section of the contribution for clash of code

ArslanAli: how to figure out how much jump it will make?

elie.f.asmar: Do I need to output anything or just write a running function that solves the problem

ArslanAli: initial position is 2 5

ArslanAli: with UR it jumps to 5 4, 3 pt up and 1 right

ArslanAli: how to know these values, 3 and 1?

Uljahn: ArslanAli: by dividing unexplored search space in half? you don't need to know exact numbers to make an informative guessing

Ayza: you need to output the answer elie.f.asmar

Ayza: It's just like solving it in a coc

ArslanAli: Uljahn can you help me more in it

Astrobytes: Try working through it on paper to understand

GroutchKeu: o/

Astrobytes: o\

Astrobytes: or \o even

Uljahn: ArslanAli: just look through External resources links on the main page of the puzzle

Tien118: taco power

antiwonto: [auto] That taco command has moved to the #taco channel

emh: yayy my new bot played a random game till 200 without errors or segfaults

Astrobytes: emh: did you stay up all night writing that? :D

struct: hi

Astrobytes: hey struct

vall10: hey U

emh: Astrobytes until 3 AM or so hehe

Astrobytes: hehehe, worth it though :)

vall10: Hey litle

jacek: :upside_down:

antiwonto: [auto] ':upside_down:' was defined as ' ɥǝllo '

PatrickMcGinnisII: where's my :taco:

waterproofsodium: :taco: PatrickMcGinnisII

antiwonto: [auto] You used your taco giving ability for the day to discover that you need to spread the love. Give tacos to someone else.

waterproofsodium: hu

PatrickMcGinnisII: :taco: waterproofsodium

antiwonto: [auto] PatrickMcGinnisII has awarded waterproofsodium 10 tacos. waterproofsodium now has 59 taco. PatrickMcGinnisII now has 62 taco

waterproofsodium: :D

struct: :taco: waterproofsodium

antiwonto: [auto] struct has awarded waterproofsodium 10 tacos. waterproofsodium now has 69 taco. struct now has 40 taco

struct: jacek

waterproofsodium: yes keep em coming :P

Astrobytes: :taco: waterproofsodium

antiwonto: [auto] Astrobytes has awarded waterproofsodium 10 tacos. waterproofsodium now has 79 taco. Astrobytes now has 67 taco

TINOUAINANI: 🌮 to me

TINOUAINANI: :upside_down:

antiwonto: [auto] ':upside_down:' was defined as ' ɥǝllo '

waterproofsodium: come on friends push me above 100 ;)

struct: Can only give tacos once per day sorry

TINOUAINANI: 🌮 waterproofsodium

Astrobytes: oh yeah, *now* we're his friends eh :P

waterproofsodium: haha

tweenie: :wave:

Uljahn: :taco: PatrickMcGinnisII

ArianPunk: guys, when you solve a practice, can it be moved up to the top solutions by the system?

Astrobytes: Hmm. Discrimination against fellow felines!

Miki09: :taco: Wontonimo

ArianPunk: i mean, if it's one of the best in terms of performance.

Astrobytes: Must have gone offline.

jacek: :upside_down:

Astrobytes: ArianPunk it needs to be public and voted for by users iirc

jacek: if there is win and lose in double battle, is it counted as draw by CG?

Astrobytes: I'm not entirely sure tbh jacek

Illedan: Think it is a win and a draw, as I get changes in my rank in that case

ArianPunk: users may not see it or check whether it's the fastest.

struct: I dont think so jacek

struct: But would be a good question for cg to answer I guess

Astrobytes: game will return as a multi :tada:

Illedan: Winning 3rd, but losing 80th on submit -.-

struct: nice

jacek: dat meta

Illedan: Annoying to submit

Astrobytes: Don't submit [solved]

Illedan: -.-

struct: why Illedan? too much rng?

Astrobytes: :grin:

Illedan: Shh

Illedan: I use 42 as seed

Astrobytes: :)

Illedan: :O top 10 for a brief secund

Illedan: second

struct: Nice

Crosility: Nice!

eulerscheZahl: NIke

eulerscheZahl: (this is a product placement)

struct: hi euler, thanks for the referee

eulerscheZahl: you're welcome, didn't help me so far

Illedan: I made sure it works, but didn't use it either

Illedan: The brief second got longer :dance:

elderlybeginner: can you drop some heuristic ideas for the contest?

struct: the heuristics I use are only to prune useless moves

struct: Because i'm using search

elderlybeginner: and what are useless moves?

struct: using continuous integration if you already have 2 of that type or if its not required for any of the apps

ozgurcelebi: selamun aleykum

struct: Using coding/training if you dont have any card to draw

struct: Using refactoring if you dont have any tech debt in hand

struct: using code review if there are no bonus to draw

struct: and so on

PatrickMcGinnisII: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=395898539267927

elderlybeginner: excluding by if's :joy:

geppoz: "Using coding/training if you dont have any card to draw"

struct: ah wait

struct: not coding

struct: You are right

geppoz: but if there are cards in "discarded" they will draw, right?

struct: Yeah by draw i meant also including discard pile

geppoz: ok

struct: I think its very rare

struct: But I guess it might be possible so I included it

geppoz: uhm that reminds me a question:

geppoz: if I play a "coding", and draw is empty, i could get that card again?

geppoz: since it goes in discard then reshuffled?

geppoz: in same turn I mean

MSmits: no

MSmits: none of the cards you play go in discard

MSmits: they go to "played"

geppoz: well, another array to store :D

MSmits: yes

geppoz: i put them directly in discard

MSmits: thats how it was when the contest started

MSmits: but it allowed infinite coding/training

MSmits: so it got fixed

geppoz: ok ty

jacek: thanks to the community it got fixed

jacek: and some people complained CG doesnt host community contests no more

eulerscheZahl: i just realized that i disallowed to ever make and debt on project release. maybe not the smartest choice

eulerscheZahl: any*

MSmits: dont think so either

eulerscheZahl: let's submit a debt maker

Nerchio: its not the smartest choice considering there's a lot of people in the top ending the game with 20+ debt :P

ProbabilityIsNotMaths: does anyone has an idea for a "reverse": http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/31a00d01-16ca-4fa2-9c7d-1451c36e799c

eulerscheZahl: but i'm a good coder and don't want to ship bugs

struct: pastebins are broken jordan

eulerscheZahl: make a screenshot

GNye22: How do you activate custom debug again? I have it activated on other programs, but it's not activated on Death First Search Part 2

ProbabilityIsNotMaths: how can I send a screreshot her e?

struct: you cant create custom test cases for some puzzles GNye22

eulerscheZahl: upload to imgur or so

Rafarafa: is anyone here running brutaltester on mac?

GNye22: That's weird tho because some of the discussions for this puzzle talk about users using custom tests

ProbabilityIsNotMaths: nvm I found out my problem, ty

eulerscheZahl: or make a normal pastebin (pastebin.com) instead of chat pastebin

eulerscheZahl: rubber duck debugging

Rafarafa: or rather, has anyone managed to run his/her local arena for this contest in mac?

eulerscheZahl: no, just linux

j4at: euler you have local green circle arena ?

eulerscheZahl: yes

j4at: send :'(

eulerscheZahl: https://easyupload.io/y86u11

MSmits: Rafarafa make sure you get it this time

MSmits: (he was asking me about it earlier)

MSmits: chat doesn't save so..

j4at: thank you euler :)

struct: MSmits templates should not slow me down right?

struct: I never really used them much

Rafarafa: MSmits, that I get what sorry?

MSmits: no

MSmits: they dont

struct: thanks

MSmits: eulerscheZahl's download

MSmits: get it now

MSmits: it's a local arena

struct: it has brutaltester + greencircle jar

struct: for it

MSmits: struct i use a template to use the same sim to run for a normal turn and for an endgame solver

Rafarafa: oh thanks

MSmits: for normal turn it returns eval, for last turn it returns winchance (between 0 and 1)

struct: I see

j4at: can brutaltester run referees without any changes ?

struct: Im using it to update the cards and such

eulerscheZahl: https://cg.spdns.eu/wiki/Chat:World/2022-06-21 search for the link in chat logs, i give examples how to use it

struct: Im storing the hand and such in uint64_t

MSmits: ohh

MSmits: nice, i never switched to bitboard

eulerscheZahl: you have to modify the referee. which is what i did - so the files i shared

j4at: thank you :)

jacek: backdoors eh

MSmits: wow lucky submit for me

eulerscheZahl: finally back in top30, making debt helps

eulerscheZahl: oh, smits in top5 :o

struct: grats

MSmits: very temporary and lucky, i dont think i changed anything serious

j4at: Maybe I will give green circle a shot

j4at: I don't know only 4 days left

MSmits: j4at i had a full sim on the first sunday. Granted, it was bugged, but all small bugs

struct: I can probably write a sim for this in 2 hours now

MSmits: and I am not the fastest coder so... if you focus

struct: Since I now know the rules

MSmits: yeah that is the worst part

j4at: you are not the fastest

j4at: but im the slowest

j4at: :p

struct: 4 days is more than enough imo

struct: The bugs are fixed, the rules are explained better now

MSmits: it's more about focus. I refound the focus i had when i first entered a CG contest many years ago, it's a weird experience

struct: If I close the chat Ill get legend, if I dont I probably wont

MSmits: I have slept 4-6 hrs every night this week and i am still going... do need to catch up a bit tonight though :P

struct: I wouldnt be able to code if I slept that little

j4at: Damn MSmits is hardcore

emh: I was like MSMits up until the day that I took a sleeping pill, preemptively reducing the chances of crashing

emh: but now I was partying with a couch surfer drinking bourbon, but I felt the draw back to the green circle

emh: so I'm gonna drunk code my sim

Astrobytes: make sure last nights work is backed up, was thinking of a couple of beers tonight too lol

jacek: sleep is for weak

MSmits: doing good Illedan

jk_java: looking for approvers on a contribution

jk_java: https://www.codingame.com/contribute/view/20739e7af87e7682761095576937ba9196bba

jk_java: thanks guys

eulerscheZahl: approvers or reviewers?

jk_java: someone to Approve

eulerscheZahl: so you aren't even interested in a proper review. i'll close the tab again in this case

jk_java: both actually

eulerscheZahl: too late, i closed it. can't be undone

jk_java: learning the process

Astrobytes: I did say to be patient when you posted the same the other day...

jk_java: ok, patience is a virtue (y)

eulerscheZahl: space maze needed 3 full runs to get approved

MSmits: because noone could solve it :P

struct: I have seen clashes more difficult

MSmits: than space maze?

MSmits: nice dis :P

struct: space maze 2 actually

Astrobytes: structs troll game is on point these days :D

MSmits: indeed

eulerscheZahl: i keep stopping at desk 7 as i don't want to throw 2 cards :(

MSmits: same

struct: just remove it from possible moves

MSmits: i even stop there when there is an opponent

eulerscheZahl: hm, add a throw bonus score?

Westicles: j4at is going to revolutionize clashes with his script

Astrobytes: is it done yet? :D

eulerscheZahl: what did i miss?

eulerscheZahl: auto-refuser?

Westicles: he says he can tell which type it is before you join

Astrobytes: it was wayyyy past your bedtime euler.

Westicles: shortest/reverse/fastest

eulerscheZahl: really, that's determinied before

eulerscheZahl: didn't know

eulerscheZahl: i always thought only after launch. as they want to present a task new to everyone and thus can only pick the problem when it starts (late joiners). somehow i assumed that's also when they choose the mode

MSmits: makes sense

struct: clashDurationTypeId: "SHORT"

struct: easy enough

eulerscheZahl: but those clashers will be happy when they don't have to join shortest (or only shortest)

TurushkinStanislav: =(

TurushkinStanislav: =(

Astrobytes: afk, cooking lentils

MSmits: this is more specific than afk cooking, or just afk

eulerscheZahl: had to look it up

eulerscheZahl: Linsen

MSmits: oh ok

eulerscheZahl: when it comes to food, i lack a lot of vocabulary

eulerscheZahl: even in German

struct: Never eaten lentils

struct: I think

MSmits: same

Lassassin: hello

Lassassin: How to install codingame app

eulerscheZahl: what's that?

Lassassin: it keeps telling me to log into microsoft acc on chrome web store -_-

Lassassin: its a way to use external code editor

eulerscheZahl: did you kill the letter L?

Lassassin: on coding game

Lassassin: wat

MSmits: lol...

eulerscheZahl: L - assassin

MSmits: it's funny because it's the worst joke :P

Lassassin: ...

struct: Lassassin use cg local instead

Lassassin: ....

struct: CG local doesnt require you to login on chrome store

eulerscheZahl: i still copy-paste

MSmits: eulerscheZahl copy pasted himself to world rank 1 several times

MSmits: so... it works

MSmits: but now i made it sound like you stole your bots

MSmits: sorry

Lassassin: copy paste is ok but im noob

struct: Only I copy pasted my bots

Lassassin: okay i donwlaoded cglocal

struct: My mcts bots I mean

struct: :p

struct: But ofc I had to create the 1st one

Lassassin: aw shiet is this written in rust

MSmits: you stole your own bots?

struct: yes

MSmits: evil

eulerscheZahl: is what written in rust?

struct: they are all based on tic tac toe mcts

eulerscheZahl: cg local is in kotlin

eulerscheZahl: i still have to add tree reuse to my UTTT

MSmits: it's not critical really

eulerscheZahl: starting a a green pasture every turn

struct: reuse sometimes can hurt

MSmits: the smaller the branching factor the more helpful it is

eulerscheZahl: i do it for bandas

eulerscheZahl: but somehow made a bug for uttt

MSmits: oh yeah it's useful there, but you'll run out of nodes in bandas, so have to reset anyways

eulerscheZahl: still: i have a loooot of nodes. even those with 0 evals

struct: is bandas ept?

eulerscheZahl: sure, i clear my node list every few turns

MSmits: i use random rollout

eulerscheZahl: you can use and end game book for bandas (i don't)

MSmits: yes, top 3 all use endgame book, mine is best =)

eulerscheZahl: the librarian

MSmits: btw, this is a copy paste book actually, it's not generated in the live bot

MSmits: for oware i live-generate it

MSmits: 10 gamestates in 1 unicode character, quite proud of that :)

struct: o.o

MSmits: it's just WLD, so less than 2 bits per result

MSmits: completly useless to be that compact as it uses less than 30k chars

MSmits: but i didnt know that beforehand

eulerscheZahl: and finding the right index doesn't sound too hard

eulerscheZahl: would be easier with exactly 2 bit

MSmits: yeah it would

eulerscheZahl: and of course you optimized before checking how big it will get

MSmits: :blush:

eulerscheZahl: afk, eating something else than lentils

MSmits: that's more specific than afk eating, or just afk

struct: I dont know why msvc is able to compile even with undefined vars inside asserts

jacek: thats ms for ya

TurushkinStanislav: i reset code but nothing happens on screen it just stopped a have slideshow

TurushkinStanislav: o_O

TurushkinStanislav: i broke it

jacek: oh my

IAmTheBestPlayer: :grinning: :grinning: :grinning:

Astrobytes: back, lol euler and MSmits

eulerscheZahl: back as well. i don't understand what a good decision would be, going through replays :(

MSmits: same, i am just remove a lot of code atm, all the eval features that don't do anything

MSmits: removing

MSmits: reduce the parameter space a bit

struct: Removing some actions my also help

struct: may*

jacek: https://preview.redd.it/hfnl7xo8yovy.gif?format=mp4&s=702740ed2de621aa05b5e06450e55a1b8a5cdca6

jacek: its not rick roll

StevenV: ctrl + A then delete is the most effective way

eulerscheZahl: i may have found a parameter that was off. i expect nothing less than top15 (and will soon be disappointed)

jacek: nothing less than 15, so 15+

eulerscheZahl: yes, that. let's see if it holds and i get back to 25 again

struct: I was wrong, the secret for eval was not to add params, but to remove params

MSmits: yeah

eulerscheZahl: keep it simple

MSmits: kiss

StevenV: I still in sliver you guys

struct: gold is not easy for this one

MSmits: what are you doing there?

MSmits: we're waiting for you StevenV

StevenV: :D

struct: I either get legend or retire

StevenV: well ...

Konrad_O: Hi guys

StevenV: too busy this week, hope to have time at Sartuday

struct: Just don't panic

struct: I code like 10 lines per hour

Astrobytes: especially in fastest clashes

struct: I probably typed more in this chat since the contest started than I typed on my ide

Astrobytes: that's par for the course tho :D

StevenV: well top10 are C++

eulerscheZahl: just type your code here and then copy it into the IDE?

Dynamolten.: top10 for what?

eulerscheZahl: for the contest

Astrobytes: big-brain thinking there euler

eulerscheZahl: of course, it's a simulation-heavy game

Dynamolten.: oh nice, wasnt aware of a contest

eulerscheZahl: green circle, you can find it under activities / events at the top

struct: StevenV if they use C++ just use D

eulerscheZahl: 3days 15h still to go

StevenV: well I am a Heristic Java coder, good luck to me

eulerscheZahl: java isn't that bad performance wise

eulerscheZahl: it's what you make out of it

jacek: oO

struct: it's pretty bad compared to c++

Nerchio: on codingame yeah

struct: well c++ is also handicapped on codingame

StevenV: well I see C# on top10

MSmits: if you do heuristics it doesnt matter

MSmits: any language will work

StevenV: is C# faster than Java on CG?

struct: yes

MSmits: yeah a little i think

struct: C# has release mode on cg

TurushkinStanislav: why faster?

struct: not sure if java has it or not

MSmits: tbh, if you decide you don't want to prioritize speed, it doesn't matter if you go C# or java. Just go with what you like

MSmits: if you want speed, go with c++ or rust or something

struct: Speed is irrelevant

StevenV: I see you are on the top 14 do you write a Heuristic or some AI Algorithm @Nerchio?

MSmits: i use C# because i like it

struct: I use c++ because I like speed

jacek: yes you wear glasses

jacek: :drum:

Nerchio: StevenV search + heuristics

MSmits: well i use c++ because i like speed also, but sometimes speed is not that important. Then i prefer C#

StevenV: oh, so a hibid

struct: Speed is always important to me

Nerchio: I am pretty sure winner of this tournament will not be because of speed anyway

eulerscheZahl: wheee, 15th. submit is going well so far

struct: nice

eulerscheZahl: aaand it's gone

struct: not nice

Astrobytes: you're not supposed to announce that

Astrobytes: until it's final

Astrobytes: Bad juju

StevenV: Thanks, Nerchio

dbf: euler, congrats with mice submit :)

dbf: nice :D

eulerscheZahl: thanks. hopes for legend are back

Astrobytes: :mouse2:

eulerscheZahl: no legend without toad, old tradition

StevenV: I think of a Heuristic strategy to go into gold, but doesn't have time to code it yet

Astrobytes: hi dbf :) will you be joining RAIC?

dbf: Astrobytes, yes, I hope :)

eulerscheZahl: i've been told there are tshirts but no hoodies this time. do you know if it's the usual 300+60 tshirts again?

Astrobytes: Good to hear! :)

eulerscheZahl: minimum effort tshirt..

struct: Maybe I'll join to see if I can get my first shirt

struct: is it easy to setup localy?

Astrobytes: I'll play regardless

struct: or is it like bomberland?

Astrobytes: Yes struct, it comes with a runner

dbf: eulerscheZahl, in announce they mention that there will be alexa-like devices instead of hoodies

Miki09: what is RAIC?

struct: Russian AI cup

eulerscheZahl: wlesavo just called it strange

Miki09: hmm

eulerscheZahl: https://cups.online/ru/contests/?category=ai&utm_campaign=to-allcups&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=raic

StevenV: and do we have Tshirt for GreenCircle?

eulerscheZahl: no

eulerscheZahl: but 3 smartphones

struct: new layout?

eulerscheZahl: new website

Astrobytes: it's not Alexa though, it will be Alexy

StevenV: top3 is very far for me

eulerscheZahl: that's the old one: https://russianaicup.ru/

dbf: they have some new insane rule that you need to have russian bank account to participate in rating, no idea why they need it, hope they'll skip it for now

Astrobytes: https://cups.online/en/contests/coderoyale

Astrobytes: ^ new one

eulerscheZahl: top3 is far for all of us. just 3 points but it's huuuge skill-wise

Astrobytes: Oh no, lets hope they skip that dbf

struct: 1st prize is 5k €?

Marco_Amaro: hi

struct: that seems big

eulerscheZahl: that link is english. and when you click round1, it's russian suddenly (the round description at least)

dbf: Astrobytes, yep no idea why they need it now if there are only few prices in money

Astrobytes: Yeah it seems silly. Unless it's in retaliation to all the competitive coding places that disqualified RU players because of you-know-what, I hope not

struct: oh so I cant play ranked without a russian bank account?

eulerscheZahl: wait, even if you play just for fun and stay far away from the big prizes?

eulerscheZahl: bummer

struct: Guess I'll skip it then

struct: Maybe ill play locam instead

jacek: or backgammon

Astrobytes: Wait and see what happens struct

eulerscheZahl: no you don't. in Soviet Russia the contest skips you

struct: my sim is looking better now, just wait

struct: Now I need an eval

struct: :p

struct: reducing the state size might have helped

eulerscheZahl: many completed projects = good. few = bad

eulerscheZahl: happy to help

struct: oh thanks

Astrobytes: Solid advice.

dbf: if you try to register there is "For persons who have a bank account in the Russian Federation, who are not employees of VK"

struct: I was just about to rent some vms to try evals, you just saved me some money

dbf: I'll check in telegram chat, maybe they'll reply something about it

struct: thanks

Astrobytes: dbf: when I registered there was choice of 'Main' or 'non-competitive'

Astrobytes: ie. sandbox only

struct: ill finish backgammon jacek, I think I know how to finish the move gen now

struct: Im not going to participate if non-competitive is the only choice

miobyte: can anyo

struct: ne

miobyte: know k8s?

struct: are you going to ask this everyday?

Astrobytes: https://imgur.com/a/ZtNbL1Z

miobyte: yes

miobyte: until I found one

miobyte: who can help me

Astrobytes: try another website miobyte

miobyte: no

struct: o.o

Nerchio: xd

miobyte: struct, I think u are an expert in k8s

Astrobytes: Fair enough. Your time :rofl:

dbf: struct, I raised it in the chat, hope you guys could play and get your t-shirts as usual :)

struct: I don't even know what that means

miobyte: oh

miobyte: how to get t shirt then?

ilgiocatore: t shirt with "k8s" written on it

miobyte: I would love that

miobyte: who will gift it to me?

Astrobytes: Buy a marker pen and a plain t-shirt [solved]

miobyte: :money_mouth:

miobyte: u gift me

Astrobytes: u bore me

Astrobytes: btw, the image link I posted was the options I got when registering for RAIC, I think it's still OK from those choices

struct: Maybe its possible

Astrobytes: we'll find out from the telegram chat I guess

Astrobytes: I'll still probably play it a bit for something to do

dbf: Astrobytes, if you click on terms for 'Main' mode there is a note about bank account

struct: Ill probably do locam, not sure

struct: the new one

Astrobytes: Oh I see dbf

Astrobytes: Well, we will find out I guess. I'd open a Russian bank account but I might get arrested :|

struct: dont think its worth it just for a tshirt

Astrobytes: No, indeed. Damn humans. You'd think we'd all be cool by now.

dbf: yep, maybe they are not sure that they can transfer monetary prize abroad, but should not be an issue for t-shirt

Miki09: Astrobytes I beated you :scream: https://www.codingame.com/replay/645292738

Miki09: First time in my life

Astrobytes: unsurprising Miki09 my bot is a pile of :poop:

Miki09: lol

Astrobytes: hopefully dbf

TurushkinStanislav: i have no idea what im doing but its working

dbf: anyway, you can register for Main contest and try, maybe they will not kick participants without accounts

aCat: struct new LOCM :>?

Astrobytes: yeah, I registered as soon as I saw it :) I will play anyway if the game is OK

struct: yes

aCat: :+1:

aCat: we need participants ;]

aCat: preferrably good participants but honestly any will do :P

Astrobytes: I wrote an idiot bot for it but the tedious input part is done, still to get around to writing something reasonable

struct: You said its an option to make the code open source right?

struct: At least from what I understood

Astrobytes: But struct, everyone wants to look at your elegant avx'd bot

struct: lol

eulerscheZahl: "preferrably good participants but honestly any will do :P" your desperation made me laugh

struct: all you have to do is ask, I shared my bots before

aCat: euler that is the tue thing in "research" competitions

Astrobytes: lol, was just joking tbh, but I am curious about some of your MCTSs

aCat: yeah, it is preferred and probably default to have bots published but we agree if you don;'t want

eulerscheZahl: i know. for me it's all fun and games. for you it's publish or perish

struct: Nah I'll share it's fine

Astrobytes: Indeed euler

struct: Ill show you after the contest astro

aCat: things are more complicated, because with current polsih goverment policy publications like those on COG are worthless

aCat: but still for the sake of future projects and competitions it is good to have numbers

Astrobytes: cool struct

miobyte: anyone know about inter system communication?

Astrobytes: damn aCat, that sucks

struct: maybe if a polish doesnt win they will fund it again

aCat: yeah, but thankfully we had AAAI paper this year

aCat: so we have 2 years of reasonable piece

aCat: *peace

aCat: you kknow what ;p

Astrobytes: Ah nice. That's something at least

Astrobytes: Nonsensical policy decision by the govt though, smh

eulerscheZahl: and here i am with my biggest problem being that i have to suggest 4 ideas to improve processes and efficiency per year

eulerscheZahl: your struggles make mine seem much smaller. i still hate it

Astrobytes: 4 * per year: "Hire a minion for me"

struct: Nice, stockfish court hearing is 4th of July

struct: https://stockfishchess.org/blog/2022/public-court-hearing-soon/

struct: Hope they win :)

Astrobytes: oh I almost forgot about that case

Astrobytes: for sure

jacek: huh

Netsmile: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

struct: jacek basicly they stole stockfish, called it has their own and sold it

jacek: oh my

jacek: who would buy chess engine

Netsmile: why u no stay closed chatbar ????

jacek: its like buying for the papers

struct: press on >

Astrobytes: heh

struct: or add ?disableChat to the end of url

struct: jacek I guess chess players

aCat: meh

Netsmile: I turned it back the fak on just to come and say THANK YOU

aCat: they should know how to play chess :D

Astrobytes: lol, not wrong

Netsmile: struct my hero

aCat: people who don;t should need chess engines more ;p

Netsmile: salut, farewell annoying chatbar wehehehehehehehheeeeeee

Astrobytes: ^ really dislikes the chatbar

Astrobytes: my grandfather, a long time chess enthusiast, was (before his dementia) absolutely blown away by the power of chess engines these days

Astrobytes: "you can get a decent game out of them!"

eulerscheZahl: i removed the discord link in the chat bar via adblocker

Astrobytes: is it really that annoying though?

Lysk: oh good idea!

Astrobytes: return total;

Astrobytes: woops

eulerscheZahl: it costs precious pixels of the chat

eulerscheZahl: i like to have CG on one have of the screen and something else above or below

struct: Im guessing astro followed your suggestion euler

Astrobytes: hm?

struct: coding in chat

Astrobytes: haha

Astrobytes: yes, was looking at the other screen and typing

Astrobytes: not sure why I didn't catch it, might have been going to bed at 3.30am

eulerscheZahl: 2 screens. that would also be a solution

eulerscheZahl: but my desk isn't that big

Astrobytes: I have 3 screens, but one is for an old noisy linux box and it's not on much

Astrobytes: I use the laptop for that

eulerscheZahl: hey, i'm next to smits now. similar strategy, similar rank

Astrobytes: nice

StevenV: csb

Nerchio: I am cheering for every non c++ top player

jacek: :rage:

eulerscheZahl: don't worry jacek, you don't count as top :P

jacek: im busy writing pm in which i thank for the phone

struct: "thanks for the phone"

struct: Should be good enough

ilgiocatore: so long, and thanks for all the phones

srimanselvakumaran22: HGTTG reference yay

eulerscheZahl: "thx 4 phone gg"

Illedan: All your phone belongs to us

Astrobytes: *are belong to us

Illedan: Ah, that's why I'm not 1st

Astrobytes: (correcting more or less correct language with bad translation-based nonsense)

struct: also missing ez

Illedan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_base_are_belong_to_us

Astrobytes: ^

Illedan: n Warcraft III, the single player instant victory cheat code is "AllYourBaseAreBelongToUs",

struct: Those references are too old for me

Illedan: I know it from WC3

Astrobytes: wasn't there something similar in Warcraft 2?

Astrobytes: can't remember the 90s too well in places

Nerchio: show me the money

jacek: :older_man:

Astrobytes: lol SC or BW? or both?

Nerchio: sc for sure, maybe both

Astrobytes: I remember radio free zerg and power overwhelming

Nerchio: ah i mean

Nerchio: sc and maybe wc3 too

Astrobytes: good times

Nerchio: back when they made real games :older_man_tone1:

Lassassin: hello

Astrobytes: lol right :D

Lassassin: so im trying to solve shadows of the knight episode 1

Lassassin: i dont understand 1 thing

Gr0mph: Hi,

Lassassin: idk how to explain but, here's a pen

jacek: :pen_ballpoint:

Gr0mph: In Green Circle, is there any new rule after wood 1 ?

Lassassin: https://codepen.io/Lassassin/pen/qBxedNM

Lassassin: in the console

jacek: Gr0mph yes

Lassassin: idk why init X Y is 40 60 instead of 6 6

Lassassin: even though i logged it out of the game loop

Gr0mph: thanks jacek

Gr0mph: In Batman, it's more easy If you have a min and max for x and a min and max for y. After it's easy. ;)

jacek: hmm your readlines differ from deafult code

Lassassin: ah

jacek: may be inconsistent

Lassassin: i see

Lassassin: im an idiot

Lassassin: thanks!

AshamanCooper: green circle was easier for me after wood.

Astrobytes: AshamanCooper cause of all the random actions

kovi: gratz Yurko (mcts seems to be the winner)

Astrobytes: vanilla mcts?

struct: mcts? say no more

Nerchio: i got bored after writing mcts once

struct: Good thing I dont have to write it

Astrobytes: Nerchio: it can be fun if it's a game you need to tweak and modify it a lot for

DomiKo: Nerchio why would you write it again? just copy it :D

Nerchio: that's kinda what I did between uttt and connect4

Nerchio: as i said - boring :D

Astrobytes: try other kinds of mcts

struct: I even have mcts for this kind of games where the player moves multiples turns

struct: in ataxx

Astrobytes: did ataxx get finished?

eulerscheZahl: and still a python pulling off a brave fight

struct: not yet

Astrobytes: cool, I didn't miss anything

Michael_Howard: How many got in Legend when it opened last time?

eulerscheZahl: 15 or so

eulerscheZahl: my bot is on the edge

struct: why do you think its mcts kovi?

eulerscheZahl: considering that there's still time to improve until legend

eulerscheZahl: because it's Yurkov

DomiKo: Yurkov have to be mcts

DomiKo: everybody know this

eulerscheZahl: one trick pony. but he does that one really well

Astrobytes: smitsi or mcts, depending on the game, always :D

Astrobytes: and yes, he does

Astrobytes: better at smitsi than smits :D

struct: well I might give it a try I guess

princess_of_zeal: I was wondering how predictable the rng is - anyone figured out how to crack the seed? I guess the benefits would be higher than for Spring Challenge?

struct: you dont know what opponent did, I think its close to impossible

Astrobytes: also the int vs float thing

eulerscheZahl: use decimal [solved]

princess_of_zeal: hm... but still, the rng state is basically given by the applications + opening hands, from there ...

eulerscheZahl: i suggested to use SecureRandom. as intended by the SDK

eulerscheZahl: i don't think that it was changed to account for it. but still very much not trivial to reverse the seed

princess_of_zeal: yeah, that's a one line fix, so cracking it might not be worth the effort ;-)

Astrobytes: I don't thing Karan g reported back with anything useful

princess_of_zeal: Agree that it's not trivial, but predicting all future draws and being able to identify plays that create bad draws for the opponent sounds like an unfair advantage.

jacek: nyoro~n

eulerscheZahl: who cares about fairness? it's a contest

MSmits: it's bad design, assuming it becomes a problem. don't think it has anything to do with fairness as every player has the opportunity to reverse the random if they have the skill and it is even possible

struct: and its something that would take minutes to fix

Astrobytes: Maybe get fixed in the multiplayer release

MSmits: if this will be a multiplayer arena even

jacek: it will

Astrobytes: It will. I posted about it earlier

MSmits: oh ok

eulerscheZahl: you posted? you make the rules?

MSmits: i was doubting it because earlier company sponsored contests didnt

Astrobytes: No euler, I posted about the fact it would come back :P cheeky git :D

Astrobytes: MSmits: I think cause the SG guys are longterm users and they got SG to sponsor the contest, it's kinda almost a community contest

jacek: svn?

MSmits: oh ok

eulerscheZahl: hg

Astrobytes: lol jacek, the actual meaning of 'git'

MSmits: jacek means git?

MSmits: :confused:

eulerscheZahl: svn=subversion hg=mercurial

Astrobytes: that would be jacek: the meaning of 'git' or jacek - the meaning of 'git'

Dapps: cvs=

MSmits: thanks for clearing that up (?) :P

**PatrickMcGinnisII is an older Gangster In Training

eulerscheZahl: git in an insult

MSmits: are you training to be an old gangster or have you grown old trying to be a gangster?

Astrobytes: yes, people call Linus a grumpy/miserable git

eulerscheZahl: that's how the versioning got the name. linus torvalds insulting others for their versioning system and telling them to use what he coded

PatrickMcGinnisII: When I play by OG rules, I get in trouble ... gotta learn the new rules

MSmits: is this where github came from?

Astrobytes: where *git* came from

Astrobytes: git != github

eulerscheZahl: what a git, isn't he?

MSmits: i wouldn't know, i am not part of the git scene

Astrobytes: it's a very English insult is 'git'

eulerscheZahl: to be fair, i only found out about it when another student told me about the meaning

eulerscheZahl: not a common word

eulerscheZahl: it's in one league with idiot i think

PatrickMcGinnisII: for version collections, I prefer Gangster In Training

MSmits: I'm definitely overfitting parameters now. I spent a few hrs on having specific parameters per card and now i set them all equal and my bot is just as good

Astrobytes: It's very common in English, in Scotland we might use 'get' instead of 'git'

Astrobytes: (in the insult form)

Astrobytes: I thought you were looking elsewhere from the parameter tweaking MSmits?

MSmits: yeah, i have been putting it off, i am a bit tired. Should have just gotten some sleep

PatrickMcGinnisII: Astrobytes is a cheeky git, oic

Astrobytes: Yes Patrick, that's the one

PatrickMcGinnisII: dumbass ameericans

Astrobytes: I can forgive "git good" etc usage, accent-dependent

PatrickMcGinnisII: the longer the insult, the more it should hit

Astrobytes: like "mangled apricot hellbeast"?

Quidome: Is bronze containing all the rules?

Astrobytes: Yes Quidome

Quidome: thnxs

PatrickMcGinnisII: umm, yea...nerds shouldn't rap

Astrobytes: PatrickMcGinnisII: it was a Scottish insult towards The Donald

MSmits: it's the duck Astrobytes

MSmits: he's not donald

PatrickMcGinnisII: truck frump

Astrobytes: lol

MSmits: o that donald

Astrobytes: *that* donald, yes

jacek: does he have trump card

Astrobytes: also from Scotland about him: "leather-faced piss jar", "weapons-grade plum", "custard-falvoured jobby" etc

Astrobytes: *flavoured

PatrickMcGinnisII: more like this for nerds "yo momma gotta stop taking selfies, Google Earth is getting overloaded."

Astrobytes: Yo mama jokes are not dead yet?

jacek: theyll never be

Astrobytes: said yo mama

MSmits: Yo mama so fat, she's wedged in between Ben Nevis and Suilven

Astrobytes: Not bad MSmits!

MSmits: thx

Astrobytes: That must have took some googling

MSmits: indeed

**PatrickMcGinnisII went over his head

Astrobytes: Scottish mountains Patrick

MSmits: (i googled mountains in Scotland)

PatrickMcGinnisII: er my head

Astrobytes: what is that about 100-150 miles distance MSmits?

PatrickMcGinnisII: I'm going to D.C. next month, I wonder if the wax museum has a custard-flavoured jobby

MSmits: could be sure

MSmits: i didn't measure yo mama precisely

Astrobytes: MSmits: :rofl:

Astrobytes: excellent

Astrobytes: PatrickMcGinnisII: Please, do ask them this question

PatrickMcGinnisII: Voldemort won't even call u momma by name

Astrobytes: who?

Astrobytes: oh the Harry Potter character

Astrobytes: I still don't know what one that is, and I've seen the movies casually many times

PatrickMcGinnisII: I call my X wife VB, for Voldebitch

MSmits: to her face?

PatrickMcGinnisII: yes, HP reference

Astrobytes: Could stand for Visual Basic, 2 sides of the same coin

MSmits: yeah the one that must not be coded in

Astrobytes: it was handy around 2001

PatrickMcGinnisII: i still can't get out of silver with 1 move heuristics

PatrickMcGinnisII: at least my move sim is debugged

MSmits: if you can be sure your sim has no bugs, you're at least 1 step ahead of me :P

MSmits: or do you just mean the move phase

PatrickMcGinnisII: I don't play the 0 1 2 3 type cards tho

MSmits: ah, those are pretty good. Well the first 2 anyways

PatrickMcGinnisII: i was computing debt wrong...forever

PatrickMcGinnisII: only 0 depth analysis i can think to add is picking releases that could slow down opponent the most

MSmits: please dont do that

MSmits: waste of time even if you do it very accurately like i did

Nerchio: don't do that it's my secret strat

PatrickMcGinnisII: u in gold nerch?

Nerchio: somehow yeah

Nerchio: my sister helped me code

MSmits: i calculated every possible hand for opponent and how close to every possible app the opponent could get with his current deck, given a random hand

MSmits: gave that a parameter

MSmits: and it fitted to 0. Many times

Astrobytes: Nerchio trolling also on point

Dapps: MSmits lol hate that feeling

Nerchio: can't get rusty Astrobytes

MSmits: yeah it sucks, i really thought this must be useful

Astrobytes: indeed Nerchio, indeed!

MSmits: the problem is that you have no idea about the division between his draw and discard piles

MSmits: so it's just noise

PatrickMcGinnisII: opponents beat me to 5 apps many times i think because i choose the wrong release, they tie via eval of my hand quite often

kovi: i do since day 3, it works in certain situation

DefaultCoder: lol

MSmits: if you can identify the situation and only put it in eval for that situation, then it is good

DefaultCoder: i cant find the sulotion

PatrickMcGinnisII: or i end up in situations where i have too many cards

MSmits: what kind of lotion is that DefaultCoder?

MSmits: and why are you asking us?

Astrobytes: sun-unblocking I think

MSmits: oh that makes sense

Astrobytes: in the way that chocolate teapots make sense, yes

MSmits: they don't make sense

Astrobytes: precisely

MSmits: ohhhhh

Astrobytes: quit playing sub :P

Astrobytes: sub?!

Astrobytes: *dumb

PatrickMcGinnisII: i tighten debt collection in early game and loosen it in end game.

PatrickMcGinnisII: There is a chocolate teabag joke in therre somewhere

MSmits: yeah i was gonna ask what you mean by sub, but i didnt want to seem dumb

Astrobytes: PatrickMcGinnisII: I think only if you include my 'sub' typo

Astrobytes: MSmits: :P

PatrickMcGinnisII: r u actually getting much depth MSmits?

MSmits: I do a full search of my turn

MSmits: from move to release

Nerchio: depth == 1 :laughing:

PatrickMcGinnisII: now that sim is debugged was gonna mcts, or modify to accomodate for picking neighbor skill cards

MSmits: depends on how you define depth :P

Astrobytes: in PHP Patrick?

PatrickMcGinnisII: depth, back to u momma highlands

MSmits: he's gonna squeeze the max out of his 100 rollouts Astrobytes

Astrobytes: :rofl:

MSmits: but there's a python in top 10, so no worries PatrickMcGinnisII, just don't mcts it

Astrobytes: ^

Astrobytes: I really hope we can keep the same banter going on discord after the chat removal

PatrickMcGinnisII: swapping skills does work in endgame, hmmm

MSmits: I will go there

MSmits: you mean task prio PatrickMcGinnisII?

Astrobytes: It won't be the same but we can try

MSmits: if everyone is there, it could be better

MSmits: discord has more functionality doesnt it?

Astrobytes: it does yes

MSmits: the only reason this chat is good is the people, as a chat program it is horrible

Astrobytes: but it's not as immediate as CG chat, separate window/tab etc

MSmits: good work for an itern ofc

MSmits: true

Astrobytes: I will miss a lot of the FR people that don't use discord too

MSmits: what do they use?

Nerchio: baguettes

Astrobytes: CG webchat

MSmits: lol

eulerscheZahl: chat plugin of vim

Astrobytes: yes, baguettes connected by raclette strands

Westicles: there's always blaise's chat

Astrobytes: not ready yet iirc

Astrobytes: Are you on discord Westicles?

Astrobytes: I can't remember if you are or not

Westicles: yeah, but I rarely use it

Astrobytes: get using it after the chat goes

Westicles: yeah, probably.

Westicles: looks like he's made some progress

Westicles: https://cheloniangall.com

Astrobytes: I thought the name was most excellent.

MSmits: what does it mean

Astrobytes: I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader (so to speak)

MSmits: I'm just going to visit that site regularly to chuckle at the dancing turtle

Astrobytes: there's a connection between the turtle and the name.

TheQuestion: Hello, quick question about the running contest. It is not possible to use a skill card only for its shoddy skill icons? (sorry if its in the description, i cant find it)

PatrickMcGinnisII: awe

BrunoFelthes: it is possible TheQuestion

PatrickMcGinnisII: yes u can use just the shoddy part

MSmits: if you end up using cards just for the shoddy, you're probably not making a good decision there

PatrickMcGinnisII: right now my bot takes on 10 debt in 4 releases and has a hard timer getting the 5th out in time

BrunoFelthes: some times it is good MSmits

MSmits: sometimes using shoddy is good

MSmits: but the correct cards already have shoddy

BrunoFelthes: just let the search engine decide about it

MSmits: if you are also using incorrect cards it means you are using over 4 shoddy

MSmits: so 5+

MSmits: that's never a good idea

TheQuestion: hm, ok, thanks. then i have to dig around. i have a hand with 4 skills, and releasing an app thows an error, though just the shoddy skills should be enough (i get it, not a good choice, still surprised it fails)

Astrobytes: Patrick: check if you have the proper cards, use shoddy earlier if necessary, not later

TheQuestion: small app

Astrobytes: you can always delay RELEASE with WAIT

Westicles: you do all that Patrick and you are only a little ahead of my move+1

MSmits: probably he has a bug

MSmits: or 2

PatrickMcGinnisII: I eval the moves fairly well to fit with app requirements. tuned the throw command a bit

Astrobytes: I do, I know that much

Astrobytes: have bugs I mean

PatrickMcGinnisII: i hate throwing stuff away tho

MSmits: think of it as throwing stuff toward

Astrobytes: the path to success is littered with stuff thrown forward

PatrickMcGinnisII: i try to make sure i don't pass admin desk too many times

MSmits: very wise

MSmits: both of you

Astrobytes: heh heh heh

PatrickMcGinnisII: playing against myself i avg. around 135 frames...that's way too high

Cpt_Asura: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/24751444bf5125bf1fc59bd4afb906d7f68181d

Astrobytes: Patrick: ffs fk the frames, win

PatrickMcGinnisII: i bet MSmits avgs about 85 or less

Westicles: patrick do you start with MOVE 4,5,6,7?

Astrobytes: that doesn't sound helpful

PatrickMcGinnisII: i strt with just evaling 0 1 2 3, but they usually tie, so 0 wins

Westicles: well, no wonder. gotta start with 4

TheQuestion: Ok, maybe i am just too tired, but i would assume that with the following hand, i should be able to release any app. What am i misunderstanding in the rules? "TheQuestion has in hand: 4, 9, 0, 3, 2"

PatrickMcGinnisII: if opponent chooses 6...kinda screws it up tho

jacek: 5th app?

TheQuestion: oh, of course. too tired it is

TheQuestion: *facepalm*

TheQuestion: thanks

PatrickMcGinnisII: i'll try Westicles

MSmits: start with 5 and automate a bonus card

struct: The secret is to not even start

Astrobytes: Green - not even once

Astrobytes: (multi-layered joke yo)

Westicles: how can you joke with polio in your stools?

MSmits: stools?

MSmits: the things we sit on or the things we produce sitting?

Sheeesh---: the secret is to dream the solution

MSmits: either way doesnt make sense

Westicles: the latter

MSmits: o

Astrobytes: well it's transmitted easily via stool contact

MSmits: I haven't contacted people's stool lately

Nerchio: xdd

jacek: Automaton2000 what is stool?

Automaton2000: i was looking at the code and it shows the script?if so that would be so much better

MSmits: it's so lifelike, I think it's gotten sentient

MSmits: let me message google about it

Astrobytes: get one of them to send a memo about it

Astrobytes: (them == google employees that is)

MSmits: yes we will include some poliostool trivia

Astrobytes: Wonder what that 'sentient' google chatbot will think about this

MSmits: I think it will scramble its neurons

MSmits: deconverge

MSmits: diverge

MSmits: ! i thought of a new word

Astrobytes: deconverge is nice

Astrobytes: it's like "unfresh"

jacek: not so new https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/deconvergence

MSmits: did you just create a new wiki in 5 seconds jacek ?

MSmits: there's suspiciously little in there

Astrobytes: jacek: but as in "unfresh" it's not common parlance

Scarfield: This page was last edited on 3 May 2021, at 12:49

jacek: just dont look at the history

jacek: :rage:

MSmits: I am a year late :(

Scarfield: this chat bot, its getting pretty good at exactly what its trained for, must be sentient

Astrobytes: something is making really weird barking noises and I'm not sure if it's a dog being hurt or the autistic boy from a few houses along (seriously)

Scarfield: xD

Scarfield: maybe they are chatting

MSmits: if I was hearing that I'd look here:

Astrobytes: It's the boy I think. All good, mystery solved.

MSmits: https://www.verywellhealth.com/can-sleep-deprivation-cause-hallucinations-3014669

Astrobytes: I did get 6 hours MSmits :D

MSmits: o ok

Astrobytes: Scary sounds nonetheless.

Astrobytes: MSmits: when you are really sleep-deprived shadow-people are a thing

Scarfield: but what about crab people

MSmits: maybe they are always a thing and you can only see them when you are sleep deprived

Westicles: and then there's the hag

MSmits: yo momma

Scarfield: oof

Astrobytes: :rofl:

Astrobytes: well played

Astrobytes: and on topic

Astrobytes: Scarfield: yo momma jokes were earlier in the chat :D

Scarfield: oh, i missed out then :'(

Astrobytes: in fact, yo momma's jokes were there

MSmits: yup

Scarfield: my momma jokes?

Astrobytes: Nope. The jokes from yo momma

Astrobytes: ANYWAY. Are you still playing Green Thing Scarfield?

MSmits: is that what the youth is calling it now

MSmits: what is Green Thing?

Astrobytes: you missed my Green - not even once joke clearly MSmits

Astrobytes: Green Circle

MSmits: ohh ok

MSmits: i am tired

Scarfield: not really, my simple bot got pushed to silver, tried making some simple improvements, but made it worse. and havent had the energy to make something serious

MSmits: some parts of brain work, some don't

Astrobytes: Understandable. MSmits and Scarfield both

Scarfield: yo mommas brain so small its only one part

MSmits: lol

Astrobytes: heh heh

Scarfield: my bot prefers passing the admin table, and i havent bothered to find the bug

Astrobytes: yo mamas head so small she got her ears pierced and died

MSmits: ouch

MSmits: this is why I never had that done

Astrobytes: your head ain't THAT small FFS!

Scarfield: xD

MSmits: hey, i have imagination

Scarfield: who dies their ears?

MSmits: no not dyed

MSmits: died

Astrobytes: that would be dye not die

Scarfield: ah

Scarfield: dammit

MSmits: your misunderstanding of the joke is funnier than the joke Scarfield

Astrobytes: <insert meme of kids dancing around pointing at you going wooooooo>

Scarfield: not even in past tense did that work

Astrobytes: MSmits: rofl:

Astrobytes: or :rofl:

Astrobytes: take your pick

MSmits: :pick:

Astrobytes: en garde!

struct: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

MSmits: :crossed_swords:

MSmits: what is up struct

struct: asserts saved me

Scarfield: was helping a colleague with a test setup, he asked me (about a wire) to "take it out and pull in it", i had to explain how i "misunderstood" what he said, kinda killed the joke

MSmits: I've never used an assert

struct: why not?

Scarfield: only dessert

MSmits: there is no why

MSmits: i havent considered them

struct: They will catch the bugs for you

Astrobytes: Scarfield: rofl: excellent

struct: I was sending index -1

MSmits: i always just error print

struct: the assert catches it

Astrobytes: I give up on rofling, i'll just rofl in text

MSmits: if(x has wrong value) print x

struct: well assert does the same

struct: just in fewer lines

MSmits: yeah, i should try it

Astrobytes: assert(x != reasonable_value)

Astrobytes: x ==

struct: and then you can do ctrl F to replace assert( by //assert(

struct: problem solved

MSmits: nice

Astrobytes: struct: #define NDEBUG

Westicles: yo momma assert when she fall down

struct: Yeah should work too

Scarfield: yo momma so big the earth falls up

MSmits: noticably

Astrobytes: yo mommas ass[ert] so big she got mo' crack than Harlem

Scarfield: xD

Astrobytes: (can't remember where that's from, not mine)

Scarfield: i wish there were a yomo mma club

Scarfield: York Mountain MMA, YOMOMMA

Astrobytes: Or a fanclub of your momma. YOMOMMA

Astrobytes: (I liked your one better)

Scarfield: so did chuck norris

Scarfield: why are chuck norris jokes not a thing anymore :'(

struct: stacking tech debt is not easy

struct: the eval seems to be working

struct: https://www.codingame.com/replay/645407668

struct: balanced

Scarfield: wait is desk 0 and 7 considered close?

struct: yes

struct: you can always do

emh: hmm trying to vtune my sim, but hotspot is in ntdll.. and it just gives a function address. how can I find the culprit?

struct: % 8U

Scarfield: xD you ran out of debt cards

struct: and bonus

MSmits: wow

MSmits: i thought 100 was some randomly high number you couldnt reach

struct: lol

struct: 2 lines eval beats my bot

struct: ill run brutal just to test

Astrobytes: was afk, Scarfield I have a book of Chuck Norris vs Mr T jokes

Astrobytes: emh: more bourbon obviously

Astrobytes: :D

Scarfield: lol

struct: MSmits do you have any idea how to remove the error messages when you run brutaltester?

Astrobytes: don't run it

Astrobytes: [solved]

Scarfield: assert

MSmits: yes

MSmits: sec

Astrobytes: is that the log4j thing?

MSmits: src/test/resources/log4j2.properties rootLogger.level = warn

struct: yes

MSmits: instead of info

Astrobytes: what Smits said

struct: do I need to create that directory?

MSmits: no the file is there

MSmits: it's just a line to change

struct: ah

struct: ok

struct: thanks

MSmits: rootLogger.level = info becomes rootLogger.level = warn

Astrobytes: it's since the fix cause of that large log4j exploit a while ago I believe

MSmits: just to be clear, i know nothing of how any of this works. I am just copy pasting what yurko said

struct: hmm didnt work for me

struct: That worked for euler referee?

MSmits: maybe they are different messages

MSmits: euler has a different thing

Astrobytes: don't worry MSmits, I'm java-useless too

MSmits: i am using something different

struct: ah

Astrobytes: it's not a breaking error struct

Astrobytes: or shouldn't be

struct: its fine yeah

Astrobytes: just annoying

Astrobytes: if you want pretty output you know where the | is

Scarfield: im gonna bounce, enjoy your evening folks :)

Astrobytes: gn Bouncefield!

struct: cya

Scarfield: yo momma so big, she is a Bounce field

Scarfield: gn :)

Astrobytes: Scarfield: mom?! :D

struct: I hope there isnt 7 apps that require all the same cards

struct: 7 apps at once I mean

struct: is there a list of all the apps?

philipplenk: https://github.com/societe-generale/GreenCircle/blob/master/src/main/java/com/codingame/game/ApplicationFactory.java

struct: Thank you

Astrobytes: a wild philipplenk appears

struct: perfect

struct: it does seem to be 7

struct: 8 would break my bot :D

Astrobytes: argh, my eyes

struct: github?

Astrobytes: the java

struct: ah lol

Astrobytes: that's horrid

Astrobytes: got my github on dark, same as windows, same as CG

struct: same

BrunoFelthes: WoW, wala is leading with Java :D

Astrobytes: wala is a beast with java

wala: thanks

Astrobytes: :)

struct: petition to remove java

BrunoFelthes: Yeah, I know... I'm always the 2nd or 3th... I used to be the 1st before wala... he have a great framework

Astrobytes: struct: It would be wala you'd have to remove lol

BrunoFelthes: top 10 -> 1 Java 9 C++

struct: why solve 1 problem when I can solve multiple?

Astrobytes: :D

BrunoFelthes: what is the secret wala?

Astrobytes: Nice. I expect a few other languages to pop up in the end

Sheeesh---: Bash

wala: BrunoFelthes i did the same thing as in the framework

Astrobytes: BrunoFelthes: you should check some pm's and tips given in various threads

BrunoFelthes: MCTS?

wala: beam search

BrunoFelthes: nice

Astrobytes: Beam, interesting.

MSmits: weird, with the probabilities

struct: why MSmits?

struct: you can still take into account probabilities

Astrobytes: Not if you include them as states

MSmits: well you don't have a definite state

Astrobytes: and can rule out a few

Astrobytes: I guess

MSmits: you have to rule out millions if you want to go deep

wala: yes the draws induce sometimes wrong actions

Astrobytes: sure, that seems reasonable

MSmits: I'll start on a new bot tomorrow, this bot has reached max potential

Astrobytes: and I don't think going tooo deep is overly beneficial

wala: Astrobytes i think that too

MSmits: you still need eval then

MSmits: that's hard

MSmits: i kinda liked the idea of MC till end of game

struct: and ignore opponent?

MSmits: no

MSmits: just make a draw pile for him and go

Astrobytes: isn't that what psyho was doing?

MSmits: yes

MSmits: i like the method

Astrobytes: ouch, sorry for the ping

MSmits: i feel like i'll just get stuck on eval again if i do a beamsearch or other search with limited depth

Astrobytes: fix your static evaluation heuristic skills MSmits

Astrobytes: ezpz

MSmits: lol

MSmits: I went from 25 to 10 params today

struct: I dont even think I can call what im doing bitboards tbh

MSmits: bot is the same rank

Astrobytes: hehehe

struct: Im just using the bits as info

Astrobytes: struct: keeping data packed in ints isn't bitboarding

struct: Im doing 5 * 8 bits for skills, 8 bonus 8 tech 8 size

struct: I guess

MSmits: yeah thats what i was gonna do, but barely worth the effort

Astrobytes: yeah, it's just being economical

struct: It wasnt too much work tbh

MSmits: if i go try that MC thing it's just using a single state anyway, not storing

MSmits: no the coding isnt much work, finding the one bug i put in during the coding is the work

struct: Yeah that is truth

struct: Thats what asserts are for :p

MSmits: lol

Astrobytes: heh heh indeed

MSmits: anyway, i should sleep now

struct: imagine that I wrote -1 on my data

struct: it would be deadly

Astrobytes: doesn't catch those legal bugs you make though

struct: gn

MSmits: will focus on coding tomorrow, see you on sunday prolly

MSmits: gn

Illedan: gn

Astrobytes: gn MSmits just get some rest either way

MSmits: yep thanks

Illedan: Had an idea with 60 % winrate offline. Instant submit... 10 more min of training => 40 % -.-

struct: lol

Astrobytes: Like I said earlier, don't submit! :grin:

Illedan: Can't even conclude on 100 games with this contest -.-

BrunoFelthes: I just dont know how to debug my code, it is annoying with this game rules

Manchi_o6o7: Can someone help me with making a map of lambdas in c++

Manchi_o6o7: I am having some bugs :/

Manchi_o6o7: https://pastebin.com/4TYAvCP4

Astrobytes: very bad time to ask Manchi

Manchi_o6o7: if I can make it easier, it's line 15. which doesn't allow me to call the function

Astrobytes: we're working on a contest

Astrobytes: == bad time to ask

Manchi_o6o7: ouu sorry

Astrobytes: play the contest instead, 4-ish days left :D

Sheeesh---: and it's fun

Astrobytes: in a masochistic kjnd of way at first but fun yes

Astrobytes: *kind

Twelve0: why everyone in silver has 500 games in Last battles?

Twelve0: oh or is it the limit that is shown

Nerchio: limit

Neumann: Games get cleaned from servers afterwards, only the 500 last ones are available

Astrobytes: o/

Neumann: 'sup

Astrobytes: how you doing dude, been a while

Neumann: Casually trying to make something out of this contest

Neumann: So far : meh

Neumann: And you ?

Astrobytes: hehe, it's a 'different' contest

Neumann: Aren't they all, in a way

Astrobytes: yeah, trying to do something, I might just give up in gold

Neumann: Gold is nice already

Wontonimo: i hear whisper that there is a cheese method of getting to silver. Anyone feel like enlightening me

Astrobytes: I don't think that works any more Wontonimo

struct: hi Wontonimo there was a time that printing first action worked

struct: not sure anymore

Astrobytes: but using that and some smarts might work, not sure

Astrobytes: I feel like the only person who didn't go to silver doing that

Astrobytes: or bronze for that matter

Astrobytes: You can try Westicles MOVE +1 or first action I guess

elderlybeginner: Do you have some basic heuristic ideas, that are simple and make difference in the contest?

elderlybeginner: escpecially in play and release phase

Astrobytes: déjà vu from last night!

Astrobytes: Release phase, careful what you release and with what cards

Astrobytes: *and when

elderlybeginner: that "when" I just base on debt cost

Astrobytes: remember WAIT is also an option in RELEASE phase

Astrobytes: yes

elderlybeginner: and releaseing the cheapest one

Astrobytes: that's good but you can get away with a couple of expensive ones if needed

elderlybeginner: when it's below 4

Astrobytes: lol, yeah

Astrobytes: doing the same

elderlybeginner: THROW_CARD and GIVE_CARD - is there any easy gain with opposite to random?

Astrobytes: well, throw your least needed cards and give away the ones that you don't need/aren't going to use/won't give the other player some advantage I guess

Astrobytes: a combination of the above really

elderlybeginner: that's sounds like scoring function for value of the cards at certain phase

Astrobytes: well that's essentially correct

elderlybeginner: but there should be "lower hanging fruits"

ilgiocatore: yep, you can just automate bonus cards as much as you can

Astrobytes: I think we harvested them all by this point in silver.

Astrobytes: Yes there is bonus automation

ilgiocatore: and nothing else matters

ilgiocatore: in silver

ilgiocatore: and in lower gold league

elderlybeginner: automating bonus is better then automating anything else?

ilgiocatore: yes

ilgiocatore: it makes sense to automated other cards only in the end of the game

ilgiocatore: i think

elderlybeginner: eh, I see I have it already implemented

Astrobytes: yeah, it depends on other factors or it was OP at the time

elderlybeginner: any easy fix for moving shortest, but not getting into 'disturb'

Astrobytes: skipping the admin desk?

electroshardz: Can someone explain this to me? I haven't seen it before:

electroshardz: s=input().split() a,b=s.count('COWS'),s.count('MILK') print([a,"no"][a==b],b)

Astrobytes: or just opponent?

electroshardz: print([a,"no"][a==b],b)

electroshardz: it was a conditional statement where everyone else had if, then

elderlybeginner: skipping opponet +1

Astrobytes: electroshardz: it's just a different way of writing it

electroshardz: I don't understand... if a == b , then ?

elderlybeginner: gives you [True/False] which is [1/0]

Astrobytes: elderlybeginner: check if they're either at the desk or nearby to the desk (by some number of desks) can work

elderlybeginner: which makes index

yanamal: a if a=b else "no" ?..

yanamal: rather, a if a==b else "no" ?..

yanamal: is apparently equivalent to [a,"no"][a==b]

electroshardz: ok, why is it list literals thats why I am confused.

electroshardz: pretty sweet have to say

Astrobytes: because snake things

elderlybeginner: a = 'no' if a==b else a

Astrobytes: also hi yanamal, don't recall seeing you since was it the Kutulu contest?

electroshardz: so for ex: [there, not there][smart == me], else?????

yanamal: my god. they are using a boolean as a list index.

yanamal: Hey Astrobytes, good memory!

Astrobytes: remembered the profile pic tbh!

yanamal: I went to grad school and was too busy to accidentally sink weeks into competitions

yanamal: well, still am, but I relapsed

Astrobytes: This was a clash right electroshardz?

elderlybeginner: smart == me gives you True or False, which is 1 or 0, so e.g. if you get 1 (True) then ['there', 'not there'][1] gives you 'not there'

electroshardz: ohhhh. like this: [me, "haha"][smart==me],"Nope"

electroshardz: yeah. haha

Astrobytes: yanamal: awesome, you missed the spring contest! Few and far between are these contests these days

electroshardz: elderly, I guess I am confused on the last part: print([a,"no"][a==b],b) the , b

yanamal: Ah, I guess I got lucky. I was showing the easy puzzles to someone I was tutoring and saw the current contest and got hooked again. oopsie.

yanamal: (and/or unlucky about the spring contest).

elderlybeginner: Oh, MOVE 0 is bad move

Astrobytes: yanamal: whatever you do never look at clist.by

Astrobytes: MOVE 0 is a bad move if you're on 7

yanamal: electroshardz the ,b is just a separate independent print, you can print several comma-separated things

yanamal: Astrobytes oh dear. well I'm too lazy for contests that make me jump through too many hoops to get started anyway. I tried a couple game contests on Kaggle but got distracted too easily.

electroshardz: Ok, just not sure how that would back sence for that clash to always print b, as it wouldn't pass all possible cases. Thanks yanamal and others for the help.

Astrobytes: yanamal heh heh, yeah, that's where CG has the upper hand. Topcoder Marathons are nice (optimization games) and we have russian AI cup in July, that's easy enough to get started with depending how many pages there are in the rules PDF :)

Astrobytes: Both have an offline runner executable though, which is nice

Astrobytes: electroshardz: Gives you something to practice and learn more about ;)

yanamal: Astrobytes good to know in case I ever want to get kicked out of grad school for spending too much time writing ai bots :)

Astrobytes: [Kaggle is a mess (imo) btw]

yanamal: haha agree.

Astrobytes: yanamal: why not spend all your downtime doing things you love? :D

Astrobytes: but seriously, yeah, grad school first

elderlybeginner: the contest description is far from being clear

yanamal: electroshardz you can try learning more about the "ternary if operator" in python, and see if that makes more sense in place of the weird list expression

elderlybeginner: what iniciate "THROW_CARD" phase?

elderlybeginner: and is it worth to omit it always?

yanamal: what is this "downtime" you speak of?

Astrobytes: any time you need to discard a card

Astrobytes: yanamal: hehehe right on :D What you studying?

yanamal: Technically, computer science. In practice, it's a lot more social science than I like because I have chosen to go into human-computer interaction.

Astrobytes: HCI is cool though. We need a lot more outstanding understanding of that in the field of technology if you ask me.

Astrobytes: You can't leave it to devs

Nerchio: if my draw is 0 and i try to draw it takes discard yeah?

struct: yes

Astrobytes: Yeah Nerchio, it puts discard pile into draw and shuffles it

struct: and if its 1 and you use training

struct: it gets the 1 from draw and then 1 from discard

Nerchio: danke schon

Astrobytes: A Pole thanking a Scot and Portuguese in German

yanamal: yeah. but writing HCI papers and actually getting them accepted to HCI conferences is a pain, especially if I also try to squeeze in things that are actually important to me, not just things that will make my paper look acceptable in the eyes of HCI reviewers.

Astrobytes: yanamal: that's the problem of research.

yanamal: yep. My parents tried to warn me. and now they like to remind me of this fact.

Astrobytes: Beginning of the end. Get out while you can.

Astrobytes: Finish, it looks great on paper. Then go do what you want to do.

yanamal: yeah, that's the plan I think. I definitely do not want to do the pyramid scheme of academia.

Astrobytes: No. It's terrible. I mastered in cell biology, the whole world of research is exactly the same.

Astrobytes: struct: you should petition CG to keep the chat since people are coming back to the site

struct: What power do I have?

Astrobytes: Infinite Mod Power ofc

Astrobytes: Didn't they give you that?

struct: Best case scenario was the chat to be back during contests I guess

struct: at least

Astrobytes: Yeah. That would require a certain level of what might be called 'maintenance' though

struct: or just dont let any new user have access to chat

struct: :p

struct: It think its an hard decision

struct: The chat has been great lately but before it was really bad

struct: But its not really "our" fault

Astrobytes: The *reason* the chat was terrible (other than lack of features) was really lack of *new content* ie. events I think

Astrobytes: *mod features

Astrobytes: when it was more regular there was less nonsense, and if there was it moved too fast to be noticed

Astrobytes: I get their decision though, when it's bad it's almost uncontrollable

struct: for me it would stay

struct: It was only bad for a few weeks

Astrobytes: I don't miss modding but I did change my mind about the chat

Astrobytes: it gets worse with school terms and seasons, I feel there are other ways it could be controlled, but who am I to question the CoderPad

struct: Step 1, make chat open source, 2nd make comunity do it

struct: :p

Astrobytes: If they were never bought by a large company I feel they might have done that at some point. It won't happen now though

Astrobytes: large *US* company

Astrobytes: anyway, time for a couple of beers before bed, see ya tomorrow

struct: gn

BrunoFelthes: wala esta com bean

FluffyCloud: /me

FluffyCloud: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

struct: ┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ)

FluffyCloud: ty for putting the table back lol. is that also a command or is that emoticon from somewhere else

struct: its from somewhere else

struct: Just search unflip table emoji

FluffyCloud: ah i see. now i can put my own table back ┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ)

KingWhitfield2011: sup guys

KingWhitfield2011: sup guys

KingWhitfield2011: :grinning:

FluffyCloud: hi

KingWhitfield2011: didnt mean to type 2

KingWhitfield2011: but....since im here.Helloo

struct: hi

KingWhitfield2011: did you start making among us game.struct

struct: no

KingWhitfield2011: oh prob someone else

KingWhitfield2011: what coding you been doing

struct: the contest

KingWhitfield2011: im mostly doing mad pod contest

KingWhitfield2011: race i ment

KingWhitfield2011: you been playing green circle,because green circle is hard

struct: nice

KingWhitfield2011: sorry if interrupting

struct: its fine

KingWhitfield2011: great!:smile:

KingWhitfield2011: want to do clash

gokubill: hi

INIT_TOKEN: Hello

Sexwithbabies: hedy

Sexwithbabies: start idiot

CommanderGrey: lol