antiwonto: [auto] ':upside_down:' was defined as ' ɥǝllo '
lifetimeLearner007: do we get the info on how many cards are left at each location or do we have to track? what about bonus and techDebt cards in the board?
antiwonto: [auto] Hey lifetimeLearner007, here is a :taco: for loggin in today while it is quiet. You now have 1 tacos
jwpapi: why is it not reaching the second 'Hello' ?
jwpapi: it’s codegolf sorry for the names
jwpapi: ahh I found the error
jacek: invalid paste
jwpapi: jacek how is it invalid I pasted right in here
jacek: welp this is chat bug
jwpapi: I solved my problem shall I still paste?
jacek: its alright
jwpapi: actually still have a problem
jwpapi: Don’t worry about the other stuff, but it never reaches step2
jwpapi: ahh got it now!
Uljahn: Automaton2000: one can only hope
Automaton2000: premature optimization is the root of all evil
j4at: time to update to 3.11.0 beta 4 :p
j4at: It's x1.5 faster than 3.9 so It will lower servers costs. Mostly bc python is the most popular language in the website + its slow
Mortis_666: lmao boss in silver league timed out
DomiKo: jacek first draw against robo :D https://www.codingame.com/replay/644991991
eulerscheZahl: congrats, but wrong game
wlesavo: euler its the right one, but the last frame is somewhat buged
eulerscheZahl: i mean: he should play the contest instead
wlesavo: ooh :smiley:
eulerscheZahl: thought it was obvious
wlesavo: it probably is but i spend whole minute trying to figure out how is that a tie
wlesavo: btw do you plan to play new raic?
eulerscheZahl: have to figure out their new platform. lots of Russian
eulerscheZahl: no tshirts?
jacek: hmm this contest has t-shirts?
jacek: i wanted refurbished t-shirt
wlesavo: there are tshirts, but no sweetshots
eulerscheZahl: i understand that they don't want to shoot
eulerscheZahl: even if candies
wlesavo: for participants in final there will be some weird prizes, im not sure even what it is
eulerscheZahl: free cloud computing worth X rubles? :D
eulerscheZahl: not sure how hard i will try. I want to go a bit more towards topcoder for practice
wlesavo: i think it is some russian alexa analogue :slight_smile:
eulerscheZahl: do i have to create a new account on the RAIC website or can i somehow claim my old one?
wlesavo: i really like the raic theme, but again wont have much time, i hope to get to finals, but then ill have to leave for vacation, and probably wont be able to proceed
wlesavo: oh, i dont know, i just logged in with google
Quidome: what is RAIC?
eulerscheZahl: the old RAIC contests were migrated to the new website
eulerscheZahl: russian AI cup
eulerscheZahl: i saw my username on the new website and would prefer to keep using that account. i used email+password on the old platform (i don't even remember if they offered alternatives)
wlesavo: yeah, i think i logged in with the same email, but there are no previous raic results in my profile, so i cant figure out if it is the same account or another one
eulerscheZahl: a previous RAIC with a game similar to rocket league https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p73XwFCbkA&ab_channel=AndreyLama
eulerscheZahl: those are like "wood rules", in the end you had nitro and 3 robots per team
aCat: If I haver time I will at least look at RAIC
aCat: never participated before :(
MSmits: ahh finally i found my bug, been stuck for half a day :P
eulerscheZahl: i'm stuck for several already. and my attempt to change search type doesn't look good either :(
jacek: you fixed bug and it got worse?
eulerscheZahl: i have no bugs that i'm aware of. just a terrible bot in general
darkhorse64: legend is going to be insanely difficult
jacek: its quite random you still have a chance
eulerscheZahl: tbh i'm happy if i reach legend this contest
eulerscheZahl: would be the first time that i miss it
j4at: there is first time for everything
MSmits: usually legend ends up having 130 players or so. This is a game with a lot of randomness. Someone will push you in I think euler
MSmits: otherwise just fit your bot to be anti-goldboss
eulerscheZahl: my submit are always around the same rank. i don't believe in a lucky push
MSmits: but maybe the lucky push believes in you
MSmits: i think I just had my last major improvement for this bot, will have to create a new seach to improve further
MSmits: it's a good one though, 68% WR vs old bot
jacek: *10 bugs later* maybe not
MSmits: well i am always hoping for more bugs of course
MSmits: my bot now searches iteratively with greater play depth, sometimes up to 7
MSmits: (meaning 7 skill cards played in a row)
MSmits: most turns fully searched
MSmits: some exceptions, then it stops when out of time
darkhorse64: Argh, when your new bot ranks lower than the previous one and when resubmitting the old one ranks even lower
MSmits: heh yeah
MSmits: I'm curious about jace k's bot
MSmits: hope he will do a pm
MSmits: (dont tell us now though)
j4at: isn't he is using a NN
darkhorse64: I am curious about all search bots
MSmits: no idea j4at
jacek: printing 3rd action
jacek: no one goes that far
jacek: im scared trying 4th
MSmits: I'm dreading trying new search, but i guess I have to.
MSmits: so much work =/
MSmits: eulerscheZahl did you try psy ho's method?
MSmits: i mean i understand it's no guarantee. There are 100s of choices to make in that type of search
darkhorse64: 8h30 stream :zzz:
MSmits: no no, he explained it here
MSmits: the idea is easy to grasp
eulerscheZahl: best i can do with the approach so far is beating bottom gold on occasion
MSmits: ah i see
MSmits: so you did try that
MSmits: it's actually more your style
MSmits: this search type
MSmits: maybe dont give up yet :)
therealbeef: what did he use?
MSmits: MC till end of game
MSmits: with heuristics for players
therealbeef: without tree?
MSmits: tree is impossible, except on your own first turn, up until the first training of coding card
MSmits: random kills it
jacek: still he could use UCB for first ply
MSmits: yes he could
eulerscheZahl: i would still have to come up with heuristics. tried more of the illedan route (random for 3 turns and eval final state)
MSmits: use mcts type search up to move + throw/give even
MSmits: and first card
eulerscheZahl: also used a single-player search. setting opponent location to -1 after my first turn
MSmits: is that any good?
MSmits: seems much easier to me
eulerscheZahl: total garbage
MSmits: are you sure the approach is bad or did it maybe have bugs?
eulerscheZahl: i'm not sure about anything
MSmits: how about giving the opponent a random location
MSmits: instead of -1
eulerscheZahl: i don't think this will change anything except making it even more unreliable for my bot
MSmits: yeah it might
MSmits: i think the opponent -1 method isnt much worse than psyho's method early game but that it gets bad near the end
MSmits: psyho's method converges on reality
MSmits: I am actually not that worried about coding the sim and search, but I have no idea how to make a heuristic bot for this
MSmits: the whole idea about my current bot is avoiding that :)
philipplenk: I wouldn't say tree is impossible(source: i use one and get a reasonably decent rank ~20)
MSmits: how deep does the tree go?
MSmits: beyond the current turn?
philipplenk: yes, open loop mcts
MSmits: whats open loop?
eulerscheZahl: and what to do with random cards? just assign some at random to you?
MSmits: oh it is like smitsimax!
philipplenk: dont store the states, store only statisticts and recreate state when traversing
MSmits: nodes do not correspond to states
MSmits: just to sequences of actions
Sheeesh---: is there away to know how many cards left on desk or should i just count ?
eulerscheZahl: 5 - your cards - opponent cards (or 36 for bonus)
jacek: hm? sequence of actions in node?
jacek: like storing A->B->C?
jacek: in single node?
MSmits: philipplenk you can keep this approach and replace the random rollout with heuristically chosen actions
MSmits: then it should maybe be better than psy ho's method
aCat: yeah but here is wide choice
Illedan: Is Release a node? Or only the Move?
MSmits: jacek no, every action is a node
aCat: starting with 'predefined heuristic' or random heuristic
philipplenk: I am trying that, my rollouts are not completely random, but my heuristics are horrible xD
MSmits: but the node has a specific sequence of actions that leads to it
MSmits: but i am explaining my interpretation, we have the creator here :P
kovi: then i dont see what node represents after a while (why would it converge)
MSmits: kovi it might not converge, but is it worse than total MC with heuristics?
MSmits: because that is what the nr 1 uses
kovi: maybe just do node for 1 turn then random rollouts
MSmits: yeah might be better, hard to say here. It's such a weird game
philipplenk: I think it should converge with enough time. A node represents - eventually - the expected value after executing that sequence of moves. I hope
MSmits: yes, but you kill the ability for your bot to respond properly to a lucky card draw
MSmits: which heuristics can
MSmits: your search responds to the average card draw
MSmits: more or less
MSmits: MC will try all those possible draws and then respond differently to each one
philipplenk: Makes sense
kovi: yes, that mean tree reuse is not possible
MSmits: assumign the heuristics have some flexibility
MSmits: well i wasnt even considering reuse, that seems unimportant
kovi: becuase of no states? true
MSmits: even in simple boardgames that gives small benefit
MSmits: i guess because you move several times in a row here, the benefit would be larger
MSmits: yeah if you have a tree that includes move, throw, give etc. You could reuse
MSmits: more opportunity to introduce bugs though :)
Nerchio: duck will be first again soon xd
Sheeesh---: slowly but surely
Psyho: depends who submits
Psyho: I believe I have around 60% WR over duck
Nerchio: i hope my current bot wil be enough for legend :D
MSmits: maybe not on the initial promotion, but soon after
Nerchio: but it seems like one of those games where spamming submits will work at some point
MSmits: that's my hope :)
MSmits: it always works to some extent, because you are pushing the bots that are strong against you, out of the league
MSmits: leaving only the bots that are weak vs you, and the boss
MSmits: which means a 51% WR vs bot is enough
MSmits: vs boss
elderlybeginner: what's your approach to choosing an action in PLAY_CARD pahse?
elderlybeginner: I guess I won't get to gold with random
MSmits: I do a full search of my turn and evaluate the end result
MSmits: which means move+give+throw+play+release
MSmits: on carddraw (training/coding) I weigh each possible draw by probability of it ocurring
MSmits: so a really rare combination of 2 cards drawn will not count for as much
elderlybeginner: how do you score evaluation?
elderlybeginner: or better when you release and when you don't release?
MSmits: this is mostly secret (for competitive reasons), but you can think about the obvious like scoring technical debt and finishing apps.
elderlybeginner: simplifiing how much technical debt is still worth to release?
MSmits: i have mine limited to at most 2, but if i set it to a different value, i dont get a different bot
elderlybeginner: I really don't like this contest, so my competiveness will end if I get into gold with smallest possible effort :joy:
MSmits: i also score technical debt separately so my bot will avoid getting too much anyways
Rafarafa: is there a way to test my bot without using the codingame arena? it's too slow :(
antiwonto: [auto] Hey Rafarafa, here is a :taco: for loggin in today while it is quiet. You now have 1 tacos
Uljahn: ArslanAli: by dividing unexplored search space in half? you don't need to know exact numbers to make an informative guessing
Ayza: you need to output the answer elie.f.asmar
Ayza: It's just like solving it in a coc
Astrobytes: Try working through it on paper to understand
Astrobytes: or \o even
Uljahn: ArslanAli: just look through External resources links on the main page of the puzzle
Tien118: taco power
antiwonto: [auto] That taco command has moved to the #taco channel
emh: yayy my new bot played a random game till 200 without errors or segfaults
Astrobytes: emh: did you stay up all night writing that? :D
Astrobytes: hey struct
emh: Astrobytes until 3 AM or so hehe
Astrobytes: hehehe, worth it though :)
antiwonto: [auto] ':upside_down:' was defined as ' ɥǝllo '
PatrickMcGinnisII: where's my :taco:
waterproofsodium: :taco: PatrickMcGinnisII
antiwonto: [auto] You used your taco giving ability for the day to discover that you need to spread the love. Give tacos to someone else.
PatrickMcGinnisII: :taco: waterproofsodium
antiwonto: [auto] PatrickMcGinnisII has awarded waterproofsodium 10 tacos. waterproofsodium now has 59 taco. PatrickMcGinnisII now has 62 taco
struct: :taco: waterproofsodium
antiwonto: [auto] struct has awarded waterproofsodium 10 tacos. waterproofsodium now has 69 taco. struct now has 40 taco
waterproofsodium: yes keep em coming :P
Astrobytes: :taco: waterproofsodium
antiwonto: [auto] Astrobytes has awarded waterproofsodium 10 tacos. waterproofsodium now has 79 taco. Astrobytes now has 67 taco
TINOUAINANI: 🌮 to me
antiwonto: [auto] ':upside_down:' was defined as ' ɥǝllo '
waterproofsodium: come on friends push me above 100 ;)
struct: Can only give tacos once per day sorry
TINOUAINANI: 🌮 waterproofsodium
Astrobytes: oh yeah, *now* we're his friends eh :P
Uljahn: :taco: PatrickMcGinnisII
Astrobytes: Hmm. Discrimination against fellow felines!
Miki09: :taco: Wontonimo
Astrobytes: Must have gone offline.
Astrobytes: ArianPunk it needs to be public and voted for by users iirc
jacek: if there is win and lose in double battle, is it counted as draw by CG?
Astrobytes: I'm not entirely sure tbh jacek
Illedan: Think it is a win and a draw, as I get changes in my rank in that case
struct: I dont think so jacek
struct: But would be a good question for cg to answer I guess
Astrobytes: game will return as a multi :tada:
Illedan: Winning 3rd, but losing 80th on submit -.-
jacek: dat meta
Illedan: Annoying to submit
Astrobytes: Don't submit [solved]
struct: why Illedan? too much rng?
Illedan: I use 42 as seed
Illedan: :O top 10 for a brief secund
eulerscheZahl: (this is a product placement)
struct: hi euler, thanks for the referee
eulerscheZahl: you're welcome, didn't help me so far
Illedan: I made sure it works, but didn't use it either
Illedan: The brief second got longer :dance:
elderlybeginner: can you drop some heuristic ideas for the contest?
struct: the heuristics I use are only to prune useless moves
struct: Because i'm using search
elderlybeginner: and what are useless moves?
struct: using continuous integration if you already have 2 of that type or if its not required for any of the apps
struct: Using coding/training if you dont have any card to draw
struct: Using refactoring if you dont have any tech debt in hand
struct: using code review if there are no bonus to draw
struct: and so on
elderlybeginner: excluding by if's :joy:
geppoz: "Using coding/training if you dont have any card to draw"
struct: ah wait
struct: not coding
struct: You are right
geppoz: but if there are cards in "discarded" they will draw, right?
struct: Yeah by draw i meant also including discard pile
struct: I think its very rare
struct: But I guess it might be possible so I included it
geppoz: uhm that reminds me a question:
geppoz: if I play a "coding", and draw is empty, i could get that card again?
geppoz: since it goes in discard then reshuffled?
geppoz: in same turn I mean
MSmits: none of the cards you play go in discard
MSmits: they go to "played"
geppoz: well, another array to store :D
geppoz: i put them directly in discard
MSmits: thats how it was when the contest started
MSmits: but it allowed infinite coding/training
MSmits: so it got fixed
geppoz: ok ty
jacek: thanks to the community it got fixed
jacek: and some people complained CG doesnt host community contests no more
eulerscheZahl: i just realized that i disallowed to ever make and debt on project release. maybe not the smartest choice
MSmits: dont think so either
eulerscheZahl: let's submit a debt maker
Nerchio: its not the smartest choice considering there's a lot of people in the top ending the game with 20+ debt :P
ProbabilityIsNotMaths: does anyone has an idea for a "reverse": http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/31a00d01-16ca-4fa2-9c7d-1451c36e799c
eulerscheZahl: but i'm a good coder and don't want to ship bugs
struct: pastebins are broken jordan
eulerscheZahl: make a screenshot
struct: you cant create custom test cases for some puzzles GNye22
eulerscheZahl: upload to imgur or so
Rafarafa: is anyone here running brutaltester on mac?
eulerscheZahl: or make a normal pastebin (pastebin.com) instead of chat pastebin
eulerscheZahl: rubber duck debugging
Rafarafa: or rather, has anyone managed to run his/her local arena for this contest in mac?
eulerscheZahl: no, just linux
j4at: euler you have local green circle arena ?
j4at: send :'(
MSmits: Rafarafa make sure you get it this time
MSmits: (he was asking me about it earlier)
MSmits: chat doesn't save so..
j4at: thank you euler :)
struct: MSmits templates should not slow me down right?
struct: I never really used them much
Rafarafa: MSmits, that I get what sorry?
MSmits: they dont
MSmits: eulerscheZahl's download
MSmits: get it now
MSmits: it's a local arena
struct: it has brutaltester + greencircle jar
struct: for it
MSmits: struct i use a template to use the same sim to run for a normal turn and for an endgame solver
Rafarafa: oh thanks
MSmits: for normal turn it returns eval, for last turn it returns winchance (between 0 and 1)
struct: I see
j4at: can brutaltester run referees without any changes ?
struct: Im using it to update the cards and such
eulerscheZahl: https://cg.spdns.eu/wiki/Chat:World/2022-06-21 search for the link in chat logs, i give examples how to use it
struct: Im storing the hand and such in uint64_t
MSmits: nice, i never switched to bitboard
eulerscheZahl: you have to modify the referee. which is what i did - so the files i shared
j4at: thank you :)
jacek: backdoors eh
MSmits: wow lucky submit for me
eulerscheZahl: finally back in top30, making debt helps
eulerscheZahl: oh, smits in top5 :o
MSmits: very temporary and lucky, i dont think i changed anything serious
j4at: Maybe I will give green circle a shot
j4at: I don't know only 4 days left
MSmits: j4at i had a full sim on the first sunday. Granted, it was bugged, but all small bugs
struct: I can probably write a sim for this in 2 hours now
MSmits: and I am not the fastest coder so... if you focus
struct: Since I now know the rules
MSmits: yeah that is the worst part
j4at: you are not the fastest
j4at: but im the slowest
struct: 4 days is more than enough imo
struct: The bugs are fixed, the rules are explained better now
MSmits: it's more about focus. I refound the focus i had when i first entered a CG contest many years ago, it's a weird experience
struct: If I close the chat Ill get legend, if I dont I probably wont
MSmits: I have slept 4-6 hrs every night this week and i am still going... do need to catch up a bit tonight though :P
struct: I wouldnt be able to code if I slept that little
j4at: Damn MSmits is hardcore
emh: I was like MSMits up until the day that I took a sleeping pill, preemptively reducing the chances of crashing
emh: but now I was partying with a couch surfer drinking bourbon, but I felt the draw back to the green circle
emh: so I'm gonna drunk code my sim
Astrobytes: make sure last nights work is backed up, was thinking of a couple of beers tonight too lol
jacek: sleep is for weak
MSmits: doing good Illedan
jk_java: looking for approvers on a contribution
jk_java: thanks guys
eulerscheZahl: approvers or reviewers?
jk_java: someone to Approve
eulerscheZahl: so you aren't even interested in a proper review. i'll close the tab again in this case
jk_java: both actually
eulerscheZahl: too late, i closed it. can't be undone
jk_java: learning the process
Astrobytes: I did say to be patient when you posted the same the other day...
jk_java: ok, patience is a virtue (y)
eulerscheZahl: space maze needed 3 full runs to get approved
MSmits: because noone could solve it :P
struct: I have seen clashes more difficult
MSmits: than space maze?
MSmits: nice dis :P
struct: space maze 2 actually
Astrobytes: structs troll game is on point these days :D
eulerscheZahl: i keep stopping at desk 7 as i don't want to throw 2 cards :(
struct: just remove it from possible moves
MSmits: i even stop there when there is an opponent
eulerscheZahl: hm, add a throw bonus score?
Westicles: j4at is going to revolutionize clashes with his script
Astrobytes: is it done yet? :D
eulerscheZahl: what did i miss?
Westicles: he says he can tell which type it is before you join
Astrobytes: it was wayyyy past your bedtime euler.
eulerscheZahl: really, that's determinied before
eulerscheZahl: didn't know
eulerscheZahl: i always thought only after launch. as they want to present a task new to everyone and thus can only pick the problem when it starts (late joiners). somehow i assumed that's also when they choose the mode
MSmits: makes sense
struct: clashDurationTypeId: "SHORT"
struct: easy enough
eulerscheZahl: but those clashers will be happy when they don't have to join shortest (or only shortest)
Astrobytes: afk, cooking lentils
MSmits: this is more specific than afk cooking, or just afk
eulerscheZahl: had to look it up
MSmits: oh ok
eulerscheZahl: when it comes to food, i lack a lot of vocabulary
eulerscheZahl: even in German
struct: Never eaten lentils
struct: I think
Lassassin: How to install codingame app
eulerscheZahl: what's that?
Lassassin: it keeps telling me to log into microsoft acc on chrome web store -_-
Lassassin: its a way to use external code editor
eulerscheZahl: did you kill the letter L?
Lassassin: on coding game
eulerscheZahl: L - assassin
MSmits: it's funny because it's the worst joke :P
struct: Lassassin use cg local instead
struct: CG local doesnt require you to login on chrome store
eulerscheZahl: i still copy-paste
MSmits: eulerscheZahl copy pasted himself to world rank 1 several times
MSmits: so... it works
MSmits: but now i made it sound like you stole your bots
Lassassin: copy paste is ok but im noob
struct: Only I copy pasted my bots
Lassassin: okay i donwlaoded cglocal
struct: My mcts bots I mean
struct: But ofc I had to create the 1st one
Lassassin: aw shiet is this written in rust
MSmits: you stole your own bots?
eulerscheZahl: is what written in rust?
struct: they are all based on tic tac toe mcts
eulerscheZahl: cg local is in kotlin
eulerscheZahl: i still have to add tree reuse to my UTTT
MSmits: it's not critical really
eulerscheZahl: starting a a green pasture every turn
struct: reuse sometimes can hurt
MSmits: the smaller the branching factor the more helpful it is
eulerscheZahl: i do it for bandas
eulerscheZahl: but somehow made a bug for uttt
MSmits: oh yeah it's useful there, but you'll run out of nodes in bandas, so have to reset anyways
eulerscheZahl: still: i have a loooot of nodes. even those with 0 evals
struct: is bandas ept?
eulerscheZahl: sure, i clear my node list every few turns
MSmits: i use random rollout
eulerscheZahl: you can use and end game book for bandas (i don't)
MSmits: yes, top 3 all use endgame book, mine is best =)
eulerscheZahl: the librarian
MSmits: btw, this is a copy paste book actually, it's not generated in the live bot
MSmits: for oware i live-generate it
MSmits: 10 gamestates in 1 unicode character, quite proud of that :)
MSmits: it's just WLD, so less than 2 bits per result
MSmits: completly useless to be that compact as it uses less than 30k chars
MSmits: but i didnt know that beforehand
eulerscheZahl: and finding the right index doesn't sound too hard
eulerscheZahl: would be easier with exactly 2 bit
MSmits: yeah it would
eulerscheZahl: and of course you optimized before checking how big it will get
eulerscheZahl: afk, eating something else than lentils
MSmits: that's more specific than afk eating, or just afk
struct: I dont know why msvc is able to compile even with undefined vars inside asserts
jacek: thats ms for ya
jacek: oh my
IAmTheBestPlayer: :grinning: :grinning: :grinning:
Astrobytes: back, lol euler and MSmits
eulerscheZahl: back as well. i don't understand what a good decision would be, going through replays :(
MSmits: same, i am just remove a lot of code atm, all the eval features that don't do anything
MSmits: reduce the parameter space a bit
struct: Removing some actions my also help
jacek: its not rick roll
StevenV: ctrl + A then delete is the most effective way
eulerscheZahl: i may have found a parameter that was off. i expect nothing less than top15 (and will soon be disappointed)
jacek: nothing less than 15, so 15+
eulerscheZahl: yes, that. let's see if it holds and i get back to 25 again
struct: I was wrong, the secret for eval was not to add params, but to remove params
eulerscheZahl: keep it simple
StevenV: I still in sliver you guys
struct: gold is not easy for this one
MSmits: what are you doing there?
MSmits: we're waiting for you StevenV
struct: I either get legend or retire
StevenV: well ...
StevenV: too busy this week, hope to have time at Sartuday
struct: Just don't panic
struct: I code like 10 lines per hour
Astrobytes: especially in fastest clashes
struct: I probably typed more in this chat since the contest started than I typed on my ide
Astrobytes: that's par for the course tho :D
StevenV: well top10 are C++
eulerscheZahl: just type your code here and then copy it into the IDE?
Dynamolten.: top10 for what?
eulerscheZahl: for the contest
Astrobytes: big-brain thinking there euler
eulerscheZahl: of course, it's a simulation-heavy game
Dynamolten.: oh nice, wasnt aware of a contest
eulerscheZahl: green circle, you can find it under activities / events at the top
struct: StevenV if they use C++ just use D
eulerscheZahl: 3days 15h still to go
StevenV: well I am a Heristic Java coder, good luck to me
eulerscheZahl: java isn't that bad performance wise
eulerscheZahl: it's what you make out of it
struct: it's pretty bad compared to c++
Nerchio: on codingame yeah
struct: well c++ is also handicapped on codingame
StevenV: well I see C# on top10
MSmits: if you do heuristics it doesnt matter
MSmits: any language will work
StevenV: is C# faster than Java on CG?
MSmits: yeah a little i think
struct: C# has release mode on cg
struct: not sure if java has it or not
MSmits: tbh, if you decide you don't want to prioritize speed, it doesn't matter if you go C# or java. Just go with what you like
MSmits: if you want speed, go with c++ or rust or something
struct: Speed is irrelevant
StevenV: I see you are on the top 14 do you write a Heuristic or some AI Algorithm @Nerchio?
MSmits: i use C# because i like it
struct: I use c++ because I like speed
jacek: yes you wear glasses
Nerchio: StevenV search + heuristics
MSmits: well i use c++ because i like speed also, but sometimes speed is not that important. Then i prefer C#
StevenV: oh, so a hibid
struct: Speed is always important to me
Nerchio: I am pretty sure winner of this tournament will not be because of speed anyway
eulerscheZahl: wheee, 15th. submit is going well so far
eulerscheZahl: aaand it's gone
struct: not nice
Astrobytes: you're not supposed to announce that
Astrobytes: until it's final
Astrobytes: Bad juju
StevenV: Thanks, Nerchio
dbf: euler, congrats with mice submit :)
dbf: nice :D
eulerscheZahl: thanks. hopes for legend are back
eulerscheZahl: no legend without toad, old tradition
StevenV: I think of a Heuristic strategy to go into gold, but doesn't have time to code it yet
Astrobytes: hi dbf :) will you be joining RAIC?
dbf: Astrobytes, yes, I hope :)
eulerscheZahl: i've been told there are tshirts but no hoodies this time. do you know if it's the usual 300+60 tshirts again?
Astrobytes: Good to hear! :)
eulerscheZahl: minimum effort tshirt..
struct: Maybe I'll join to see if I can get my first shirt
struct: is it easy to setup localy?
Astrobytes: I'll play regardless
struct: or is it like bomberland?
Astrobytes: Yes struct, it comes with a runner
dbf: eulerscheZahl, in announce they mention that there will be alexa-like devices instead of hoodies
Miki09: what is RAIC?
struct: Russian AI cup
eulerscheZahl: wlesavo just called it strange
StevenV: and do we have Tshirt for GreenCircle?
eulerscheZahl: but 3 smartphones
struct: new layout?
eulerscheZahl: new website
Astrobytes: it's not Alexa though, it will be Alexy
StevenV: top3 is very far for me
eulerscheZahl: that's the old one: https://russianaicup.ru/
dbf: they have some new insane rule that you need to have russian bank account to participate in rating, no idea why they need it, hope they'll skip it for now
Astrobytes: ^ new one
eulerscheZahl: top3 is far for all of us. just 3 points but it's huuuge skill-wise
Astrobytes: Oh no, lets hope they skip that dbf
struct: 1st prize is 5k €?
struct: that seems big
eulerscheZahl: that link is english. and when you click round1, it's russian suddenly (the round description at least)
dbf: Astrobytes, yep no idea why they need it now if there are only few prices in money
Astrobytes: Yeah it seems silly. Unless it's in retaliation to all the competitive coding places that disqualified RU players because of you-know-what, I hope not
struct: oh so I cant play ranked without a russian bank account?
eulerscheZahl: wait, even if you play just for fun and stay far away from the big prizes?
struct: Guess I'll skip it then
struct: Maybe ill play locam instead
jacek: or backgammon
Astrobytes: Wait and see what happens struct
eulerscheZahl: no you don't. in Soviet Russia the contest skips you
struct: my sim is looking better now, just wait
struct: Now I need an eval
struct: reducing the state size might have helped
eulerscheZahl: many completed projects = good. few = bad
eulerscheZahl: happy to help
struct: oh thanks
Astrobytes: Solid advice.
dbf: if you try to register there is "For persons who have a bank account in the Russian Federation, who are not employees of VK"
struct: I was just about to rent some vms to try evals, you just saved me some money
dbf: I'll check in telegram chat, maybe they'll reply something about it
Astrobytes: dbf: when I registered there was choice of 'Main' or 'non-competitive'
Astrobytes: ie. sandbox only
struct: ill finish backgammon jacek, I think I know how to finish the move gen now
struct: Im not going to participate if non-competitive is the only choice
struct: are you going to ask this everyday?
Astrobytes: try another website miobyte
Astrobytes: Fair enough. Your time :rofl:
dbf: struct, I raised it in the chat, hope you guys could play and get your t-shirts as usual :)
struct: I don't even know what that means
ilgiocatore: t shirt with "k8s" written on it
Astrobytes: Buy a marker pen and a plain t-shirt [solved]
Astrobytes: u bore me
Astrobytes: btw, the image link I posted was the options I got when registering for RAIC, I think it's still OK from those choices
struct: Maybe its possible
Astrobytes: we'll find out from the telegram chat I guess
Astrobytes: I'll still probably play it a bit for something to do
dbf: Astrobytes, if you click on terms for 'Main' mode there is a note about bank account
struct: Ill probably do locam, not sure
struct: the new one
Astrobytes: Oh I see dbf
Astrobytes: Well, we will find out I guess. I'd open a Russian bank account but I might get arrested :|
struct: dont think its worth it just for a tshirt
Astrobytes: No, indeed. Damn humans. You'd think we'd all be cool by now.
dbf: yep, maybe they are not sure that they can transfer monetary prize abroad, but should not be an issue for t-shirt
Miki09: Astrobytes I beated you :scream: https://www.codingame.com/replay/645292738
Miki09: First time in my life
Astrobytes: unsurprising Miki09 my bot is a pile of :poop:
Astrobytes: hopefully dbf
dbf: anyway, you can register for Main contest and try, maybe they will not kick participants without accounts
aCat: struct new LOCM :>?
Astrobytes: yeah, I registered as soon as I saw it :) I will play anyway if the game is OK
aCat: we need participants ;]
aCat: preferrably good participants but honestly any will do :P
Astrobytes: I wrote an idiot bot for it but the tedious input part is done, still to get around to writing something reasonable
struct: You said its an option to make the code open source right?
struct: At least from what I understood
Astrobytes: But struct, everyone wants to look at your elegant avx'd bot
eulerscheZahl: "preferrably good participants but honestly any will do :P" your desperation made me laugh
struct: all you have to do is ask, I shared my bots before
aCat: euler that is the tue thing in "research" competitions
Astrobytes: lol, was just joking tbh, but I am curious about some of your MCTSs
aCat: yeah, it is preferred and probably default to have bots published but we agree if you don;'t want
eulerscheZahl: i know. for me it's all fun and games. for you it's publish or perish
struct: Nah I'll share it's fine
Astrobytes: Indeed euler
struct: Ill show you after the contest astro
aCat: things are more complicated, because with current polsih goverment policy publications like those on COG are worthless
aCat: but still for the sake of future projects and competitions it is good to have numbers
Astrobytes: cool struct
Astrobytes: damn aCat, that sucks
struct: maybe if a polish doesnt win they will fund it again
aCat: yeah, but thankfully we had AAAI paper this year
aCat: so we have 2 years of reasonable piece
aCat: you kknow what ;p
Astrobytes: Ah nice. That's something at least
Astrobytes: Nonsensical policy decision by the govt though, smh
eulerscheZahl: and here i am with my biggest problem being that i have to suggest 4 ideas to improve processes and efficiency per year
eulerscheZahl: your struggles make mine seem much smaller. i still hate it
Astrobytes: 4 * per year: "Hire a minion for me"
struct: Nice, stockfish court hearing is 4th of July
struct: Hope they win :)
Astrobytes: oh I almost forgot about that case
Astrobytes: for sure
Netsmile: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
struct: jacek basicly they stole stockfish, called it has their own and sold it
jacek: oh my
jacek: who would buy chess engine
Netsmile: why u no stay closed chatbar ????
jacek: its like buying for the papers
struct: press on >
struct: or add ?disableChat to the end of url
struct: jacek I guess chess players
Netsmile: I turned it back the fak on just to come and say THANK YOU
aCat: they should know how to play chess :D
Astrobytes: lol, not wrong
Netsmile: struct my hero
aCat: people who don;t should need chess engines more ;p
Netsmile: salut, farewell annoying chatbar wehehehehehehehheeeeeee
Astrobytes: ^ really dislikes the chatbar
Astrobytes: my grandfather, a long time chess enthusiast, was (before his dementia) absolutely blown away by the power of chess engines these days
Astrobytes: "you can get a decent game out of them!"
eulerscheZahl: i removed the discord link in the chat bar via adblocker
Astrobytes: is it really that annoying though?
Lysk: oh good idea!
Astrobytes: return total;
eulerscheZahl: it costs precious pixels of the chat
eulerscheZahl: i like to have CG on one have of the screen and something else above or below
struct: Im guessing astro followed your suggestion euler
struct: coding in chat
Astrobytes: yes, was looking at the other screen and typing
Astrobytes: not sure why I didn't catch it, might have been going to bed at 3.30am
eulerscheZahl: 2 screens. that would also be a solution
eulerscheZahl: but my desk isn't that big
Astrobytes: I have 3 screens, but one is for an old noisy linux box and it's not on much
Astrobytes: I use the laptop for that
eulerscheZahl: hey, i'm next to smits now. similar strategy, similar rank
Nerchio: I am cheering for every non c++ top player
eulerscheZahl: don't worry jacek, you don't count as top :P
jacek: im busy writing pm in which i thank for the phone
struct: "thanks for the phone"
struct: Should be good enough
ilgiocatore: so long, and thanks for all the phones
eulerscheZahl: "thx 4 phone gg"
Illedan: All your phone belongs to us
Astrobytes: *are belong to us
Illedan: Ah, that's why I'm not 1st
Astrobytes: (correcting more or less correct language with bad translation-based nonsense)
struct: also missing ez
Illedan: n Warcraft III, the single player instant victory cheat code is "AllYourBaseAreBelongToUs",
struct: Those references are too old for me
Illedan: I know it from WC3
Astrobytes: wasn't there something similar in Warcraft 2?
Astrobytes: can't remember the 90s too well in places
Nerchio: show me the money
Astrobytes: lol SC or BW? or both?
Nerchio: sc for sure, maybe both
Astrobytes: I remember radio free zerg and power overwhelming
Nerchio: ah i mean
Nerchio: sc and maybe wc3 too
Astrobytes: good times
Nerchio: back when they made real games :older_man_tone1:
Astrobytes: lol right :D
Lassassin: so im trying to solve shadows of the knight episode 1
Lassassin: i dont understand 1 thing
Lassassin: idk how to explain but, here's a pen
Gr0mph: In Green Circle, is there any new rule after wood 1 ?
Lassassin: in the console
jacek: Gr0mph yes
Lassassin: idk why init X Y is 40 60 instead of 6 6
Lassassin: even though i logged it out of the game loop
Gr0mph: thanks jacek
Gr0mph: In Batman, it's more easy If you have a min and max for x and a min and max for y. After it's easy. ;)
jacek: hmm your readlines differ from deafult code
jacek: may be inconsistent
Lassassin: i see
Lassassin: im an idiot
AshamanCooper: green circle was easier for me after wood.
Astrobytes: AshamanCooper cause of all the random actions
kovi: gratz Yurko (mcts seems to be the winner)
Astrobytes: vanilla mcts?
struct: mcts? say no more
Nerchio: i got bored after writing mcts once
struct: Good thing I dont have to write it
Astrobytes: Nerchio: it can be fun if it's a game you need to tweak and modify it a lot for
DomiKo: Nerchio why would you write it again? just copy it :D
Nerchio: that's kinda what I did between uttt and connect4
Nerchio: as i said - boring :D
Astrobytes: try other kinds of mcts
struct: I even have mcts for this kind of games where the player moves multiples turns
struct: in ataxx
Astrobytes: did ataxx get finished?
eulerscheZahl: and still a python pulling off a brave fight
struct: not yet
Astrobytes: cool, I didn't miss anything
Michael_Howard: How many got in Legend when it opened last time?
eulerscheZahl: 15 or so
eulerscheZahl: my bot is on the edge
struct: why do you think its mcts kovi?
eulerscheZahl: considering that there's still time to improve until legend
eulerscheZahl: because it's Yurkov
DomiKo: Yurkov have to be mcts
DomiKo: everybody know this
eulerscheZahl: one trick pony. but he does that one really well
Astrobytes: smitsi or mcts, depending on the game, always :D
Astrobytes: and yes, he does
Astrobytes: better at smitsi than smits :D
struct: well I might give it a try I guess
princess_of_zeal: I was wondering how predictable the rng is - anyone figured out how to crack the seed? I guess the benefits would be higher than for Spring Challenge?
struct: you dont know what opponent did, I think its close to impossible
Astrobytes: also the int vs float thing
eulerscheZahl: use decimal [solved]
princess_of_zeal: hm... but still, the rng state is basically given by the applications + opening hands, from there ...
eulerscheZahl: i suggested to use SecureRandom. as intended by the SDK
eulerscheZahl: i don't think that it was changed to account for it. but still very much not trivial to reverse the seed
princess_of_zeal: yeah, that's a one line fix, so cracking it might not be worth the effort ;-)
Astrobytes: I don't thing Karan g reported back with anything useful
princess_of_zeal: Agree that it's not trivial, but predicting all future draws and being able to identify plays that create bad draws for the opponent sounds like an unfair advantage.
eulerscheZahl: who cares about fairness? it's a contest
MSmits: it's bad design, assuming it becomes a problem. don't think it has anything to do with fairness as every player has the opportunity to reverse the random if they have the skill and it is even possible
struct: and its something that would take minutes to fix
Astrobytes: Maybe get fixed in the multiplayer release
MSmits: if this will be a multiplayer arena even
jacek: it will
Astrobytes: It will. I posted about it earlier
MSmits: oh ok
eulerscheZahl: you posted? you make the rules?
MSmits: i was doubting it because earlier company sponsored contests didnt
Astrobytes: No euler, I posted about the fact it would come back :P cheeky git :D
Astrobytes: MSmits: I think cause the SG guys are longterm users and they got SG to sponsor the contest, it's kinda almost a community contest
MSmits: oh ok
Astrobytes: lol jacek, the actual meaning of 'git'
MSmits: jacek means git?
eulerscheZahl: svn=subversion hg=mercurial
Astrobytes: that would be jacek: the meaning of 'git' or jacek - the meaning of 'git'
MSmits: thanks for clearing that up (?) :P
**PatrickMcGinnisII is an older Gangster In Training
eulerscheZahl: git in an insult
MSmits: are you training to be an old gangster or have you grown old trying to be a gangster?
Astrobytes: yes, people call Linus a grumpy/miserable git
eulerscheZahl: that's how the versioning got the name. linus torvalds insulting others for their versioning system and telling them to use what he coded
PatrickMcGinnisII: When I play by OG rules, I get in trouble ... gotta learn the new rules
MSmits: is this where github came from?
Astrobytes: where *git* came from
Astrobytes: git != github
eulerscheZahl: what a git, isn't he?
MSmits: i wouldn't know, i am not part of the git scene
Astrobytes: it's a very English insult is 'git'
eulerscheZahl: to be fair, i only found out about it when another student told me about the meaning
eulerscheZahl: not a common word
eulerscheZahl: it's in one league with idiot i think
PatrickMcGinnisII: for version collections, I prefer Gangster In Training
MSmits: I'm definitely overfitting parameters now. I spent a few hrs on having specific parameters per card and now i set them all equal and my bot is just as good
Astrobytes: It's very common in English, in Scotland we might use 'get' instead of 'git'
Astrobytes: (in the insult form)
Astrobytes: I thought you were looking elsewhere from the parameter tweaking MSmits?
MSmits: yeah, i have been putting it off, i am a bit tired. Should have just gotten some sleep
PatrickMcGinnisII: Astrobytes is a cheeky git, oic
Astrobytes: Yes Patrick, that's the one
PatrickMcGinnisII: dumbass ameericans
Astrobytes: I can forgive "git good" etc usage, accent-dependent
PatrickMcGinnisII: the longer the insult, the more it should hit
Astrobytes: like "mangled apricot hellbeast"?
Quidome: Is bronze containing all the rules?
Astrobytes: Yes Quidome
PatrickMcGinnisII: umm, yea...nerds shouldn't rap
Astrobytes: PatrickMcGinnisII: it was a Scottish insult towards The Donald
MSmits: it's the duck Astrobytes
MSmits: he's not donald
PatrickMcGinnisII: truck frump
MSmits: o that donald
Astrobytes: *that* donald, yes
jacek: does he have trump card
Astrobytes: also from Scotland about him: "leather-faced piss jar", "weapons-grade plum", "custard-falvoured jobby" etc
PatrickMcGinnisII: more like this for nerds "yo momma gotta stop taking selfies, Google Earth is getting overloaded."
Astrobytes: Yo mama jokes are not dead yet?
jacek: theyll never be
Astrobytes: said yo mama
MSmits: Yo mama so fat, she's wedged in between Ben Nevis and Suilven
Astrobytes: Not bad MSmits!
Astrobytes: That must have took some googling
**PatrickMcGinnisII went over his head
Astrobytes: Scottish mountains Patrick
MSmits: (i googled mountains in Scotland)
PatrickMcGinnisII: er my head
Astrobytes: what is that about 100-150 miles distance MSmits?
PatrickMcGinnisII: I'm going to D.C. next month, I wonder if the wax museum has a custard-flavoured jobby
MSmits: could be sure
MSmits: i didn't measure yo mama precisely
Astrobytes: MSmits: :rofl:
Astrobytes: PatrickMcGinnisII: Please, do ask them this question
PatrickMcGinnisII: Voldemort won't even call u momma by name
Astrobytes: oh the Harry Potter character
Astrobytes: I still don't know what one that is, and I've seen the movies casually many times
PatrickMcGinnisII: I call my X wife VB, for Voldebitch
MSmits: to her face?
PatrickMcGinnisII: yes, HP reference
Astrobytes: Could stand for Visual Basic, 2 sides of the same coin
MSmits: yeah the one that must not be coded in
Astrobytes: it was handy around 2001
PatrickMcGinnisII: i still can't get out of silver with 1 move heuristics
PatrickMcGinnisII: at least my move sim is debugged
MSmits: if you can be sure your sim has no bugs, you're at least 1 step ahead of me :P
MSmits: or do you just mean the move phase
PatrickMcGinnisII: I don't play the 0 1 2 3 type cards tho
MSmits: ah, those are pretty good. Well the first 2 anyways
PatrickMcGinnisII: i was computing debt wrong...forever
PatrickMcGinnisII: only 0 depth analysis i can think to add is picking releases that could slow down opponent the most
MSmits: please dont do that
MSmits: waste of time even if you do it very accurately like i did
Nerchio: don't do that it's my secret strat
PatrickMcGinnisII: u in gold nerch?
Nerchio: somehow yeah
Nerchio: my sister helped me code
MSmits: i calculated every possible hand for opponent and how close to every possible app the opponent could get with his current deck, given a random hand
MSmits: gave that a parameter
MSmits: and it fitted to 0. Many times
Astrobytes: Nerchio trolling also on point
Dapps: MSmits lol hate that feeling
Nerchio: can't get rusty Astrobytes
MSmits: yeah it sucks, i really thought this must be useful
Astrobytes: indeed Nerchio, indeed!
MSmits: the problem is that you have no idea about the division between his draw and discard piles
MSmits: so it's just noise
PatrickMcGinnisII: opponents beat me to 5 apps many times i think because i choose the wrong release, they tie via eval of my hand quite often
kovi: i do since day 3, it works in certain situation
MSmits: if you can identify the situation and only put it in eval for that situation, then it is good
PatrickMcGinnisII: or i end up in situations where i have too many cards
MSmits: what kind of lotion is that DefaultCoder?
MSmits: and why are you asking us?
Astrobytes: sun-unblocking I think
MSmits: oh that makes sense
Astrobytes: in the way that chocolate teapots make sense, yes
MSmits: they don't make sense
Astrobytes: quit playing sub :P
PatrickMcGinnisII: i tighten debt collection in early game and loosen it in end game.
PatrickMcGinnisII: There is a chocolate teabag joke in therre somewhere
MSmits: yeah i was gonna ask what you mean by sub, but i didnt want to seem dumb
Astrobytes: PatrickMcGinnisII: I think only if you include my 'sub' typo
Astrobytes: MSmits: :P
PatrickMcGinnisII: r u actually getting much depth MSmits?
MSmits: I do a full search of my turn
MSmits: from move to release
Nerchio: depth == 1 :laughing:
PatrickMcGinnisII: now that sim is debugged was gonna mcts, or modify to accomodate for picking neighbor skill cards
MSmits: depends on how you define depth :P
Astrobytes: in PHP Patrick?
PatrickMcGinnisII: depth, back to u momma highlands
MSmits: he's gonna squeeze the max out of his 100 rollouts Astrobytes
MSmits: but there's a python in top 10, so no worries PatrickMcGinnisII, just don't mcts it
Astrobytes: I really hope we can keep the same banter going on discord after the chat removal
PatrickMcGinnisII: swapping skills does work in endgame, hmmm
MSmits: I will go there
MSmits: you mean task prio PatrickMcGinnisII?
Astrobytes: It won't be the same but we can try
MSmits: if everyone is there, it could be better
MSmits: discord has more functionality doesnt it?
Astrobytes: it does yes
MSmits: the only reason this chat is good is the people, as a chat program it is horrible
Astrobytes: but it's not as immediate as CG chat, separate window/tab etc
MSmits: good work for an itern ofc
Astrobytes: I will miss a lot of the FR people that don't use discord too
MSmits: what do they use?
Astrobytes: CG webchat
eulerscheZahl: chat plugin of vim
Astrobytes: yes, baguettes connected by raclette strands
Westicles: there's always blaise's chat
Astrobytes: not ready yet iirc
Astrobytes: Are you on discord Westicles?
Astrobytes: I can't remember if you are or not
Westicles: yeah, but I rarely use it
Astrobytes: get using it after the chat goes
Westicles: yeah, probably.
Westicles: looks like he's made some progress
Astrobytes: I thought the name was most excellent.
MSmits: what does it mean
Astrobytes: I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader (so to speak)
MSmits: I'm just going to visit that site regularly to chuckle at the dancing turtle
Astrobytes: there's a connection between the turtle and the name.
TheQuestion: Hello, quick question about the running contest. It is not possible to use a skill card only for its shoddy skill icons? (sorry if its in the description, i cant find it)
BrunoFelthes: it is possible TheQuestion
PatrickMcGinnisII: yes u can use just the shoddy part
MSmits: if you end up using cards just for the shoddy, you're probably not making a good decision there
PatrickMcGinnisII: right now my bot takes on 10 debt in 4 releases and has a hard timer getting the 5th out in time
BrunoFelthes: some times it is good MSmits
MSmits: sometimes using shoddy is good
MSmits: but the correct cards already have shoddy
BrunoFelthes: just let the search engine decide about it
MSmits: if you are also using incorrect cards it means you are using over 4 shoddy
MSmits: so 5+
MSmits: that's never a good idea
TheQuestion: hm, ok, thanks. then i have to dig around. i have a hand with 4 skills, and releasing an app thows an error, though just the shoddy skills should be enough (i get it, not a good choice, still surprised it fails)
Astrobytes: Patrick: check if you have the proper cards, use shoddy earlier if necessary, not later
TheQuestion: small app
Astrobytes: you can always delay RELEASE with WAIT
Westicles: you do all that Patrick and you are only a little ahead of my move+1
MSmits: probably he has a bug
MSmits: or 2
PatrickMcGinnisII: I eval the moves fairly well to fit with app requirements. tuned the throw command a bit
Astrobytes: I do, I know that much
Astrobytes: have bugs I mean
PatrickMcGinnisII: i hate throwing stuff away tho
MSmits: think of it as throwing stuff toward
Astrobytes: the path to success is littered with stuff thrown forward
PatrickMcGinnisII: i try to make sure i don't pass admin desk too many times
MSmits: very wise
MSmits: both of you
Astrobytes: heh heh heh
PatrickMcGinnisII: playing against myself i avg. around 135 frames...that's way too high
Astrobytes: Patrick: ffs fk the frames, win
PatrickMcGinnisII: i bet MSmits avgs about 85 or less
Westicles: patrick do you start with MOVE 4,5,6,7?
Astrobytes: that doesn't sound helpful
PatrickMcGinnisII: i strt with just evaling 0 1 2 3, but they usually tie, so 0 wins
Westicles: well, no wonder. gotta start with 4
TheQuestion: Ok, maybe i am just too tired, but i would assume that with the following hand, i should be able to release any app. What am i misunderstanding in the rules? "TheQuestion has in hand: 4, 9, 0, 3, 2"
PatrickMcGinnisII: if opponent chooses 6...kinda screws it up tho
jacek: 5th app?
TheQuestion: oh, of course. too tired it is
PatrickMcGinnisII: i'll try Westicles
MSmits: start with 5 and automate a bonus card
struct: The secret is to not even start
Astrobytes: Green - not even once
Astrobytes: (multi-layered joke yo)
Westicles: how can you joke with polio in your stools?
MSmits: the things we sit on or the things we produce sitting?
Sheeesh---: the secret is to dream the solution
MSmits: either way doesnt make sense
Westicles: the latter
Astrobytes: well it's transmitted easily via stool contact
MSmits: I haven't contacted people's stool lately
jacek: Automaton2000 what is stool?
Automaton2000: i was looking at the code and it shows the script?if so that would be so much better
MSmits: it's so lifelike, I think it's gotten sentient
MSmits: let me message google about it
Astrobytes: get one of them to send a memo about it
Astrobytes: (them == google employees that is)
MSmits: yes we will include some poliostool trivia
Astrobytes: Wonder what that 'sentient' google chatbot will think about this
MSmits: I think it will scramble its neurons
MSmits: ! i thought of a new word
Astrobytes: deconverge is nice
Astrobytes: it's like "unfresh"
jacek: not so new https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/deconvergence
MSmits: did you just create a new wiki in 5 seconds jacek ?
MSmits: there's suspiciously little in there
Astrobytes: jacek: but as in "unfresh" it's not common parlance
Scarfield: This page was last edited on 3 May 2021, at 12:49
jacek: just dont look at the history
MSmits: I am a year late :(
Scarfield: this chat bot, its getting pretty good at exactly what its trained for, must be sentient
Astrobytes: something is making really weird barking noises and I'm not sure if it's a dog being hurt or the autistic boy from a few houses along (seriously)
Scarfield: maybe they are chatting
MSmits: if I was hearing that I'd look here:
Astrobytes: It's the boy I think. All good, mystery solved.
Astrobytes: I did get 6 hours MSmits :D
MSmits: o ok
Astrobytes: Scary sounds nonetheless.
Astrobytes: MSmits: when you are really sleep-deprived shadow-people are a thing
Scarfield: but what about crab people
MSmits: maybe they are always a thing and you can only see them when you are sleep deprived
Westicles: and then there's the hag
MSmits: yo momma
Astrobytes: well played
Astrobytes: and on topic
Astrobytes: Scarfield: yo momma jokes were earlier in the chat :D
Scarfield: oh, i missed out then :'(
Astrobytes: in fact, yo momma's jokes were there
Scarfield: my momma jokes?
Astrobytes: Nope. The jokes from yo momma
Astrobytes: ANYWAY. Are you still playing Green Thing Scarfield?
MSmits: is that what the youth is calling it now
MSmits: what is Green Thing?
Astrobytes: you missed my Green - not even once joke clearly MSmits
Astrobytes: Green Circle
MSmits: ohh ok
MSmits: i am tired
Scarfield: not really, my simple bot got pushed to silver, tried making some simple improvements, but made it worse. and havent had the energy to make something serious
MSmits: some parts of brain work, some don't
Astrobytes: Understandable. MSmits and Scarfield both
Scarfield: yo mommas brain so small its only one part
Astrobytes: heh heh
Scarfield: my bot prefers passing the admin table, and i havent bothered to find the bug
Astrobytes: yo mamas head so small she got her ears pierced and died
MSmits: this is why I never had that done
Astrobytes: your head ain't THAT small FFS!
MSmits: hey, i have imagination
Scarfield: who dies their ears?
MSmits: no not dyed
Astrobytes: that would be dye not die
MSmits: your misunderstanding of the joke is funnier than the joke Scarfield
Astrobytes: <insert meme of kids dancing around pointing at you going wooooooo>
Scarfield: not even in past tense did that work
Astrobytes: MSmits: rofl:
Astrobytes: or :rofl:
Astrobytes: take your pick
Astrobytes: en garde!
struct: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
MSmits: what is up struct
struct: asserts saved me
Scarfield: was helping a colleague with a test setup, he asked me (about a wire) to "take it out and pull in it", i had to explain how i "misunderstood" what he said, kinda killed the joke
MSmits: I've never used an assert
struct: why not?
Scarfield: only dessert
MSmits: there is no why
MSmits: i havent considered them
struct: They will catch the bugs for you
Astrobytes: Scarfield: rofl: excellent
struct: I was sending index -1
MSmits: i always just error print
struct: the assert catches it
Astrobytes: I give up on rofling, i'll just rofl in text
MSmits: if(x has wrong value) print x
struct: well assert does the same
struct: just in fewer lines
MSmits: yeah, i should try it
Astrobytes: assert(x != reasonable_value)
Astrobytes: x ==
struct: and then you can do ctrl F to replace assert( by //assert(
struct: problem solved
Astrobytes: struct: #define NDEBUG
Westicles: yo momma assert when she fall down
struct: Yeah should work too
Scarfield: yo momma so big the earth falls up
Astrobytes: yo mommas ass[ert] so big she got mo' crack than Harlem
Astrobytes: (can't remember where that's from, not mine)
Scarfield: i wish there were a yomo mma club
Scarfield: York Mountain MMA, YOMOMMA
Astrobytes: Or a fanclub of your momma. YOMOMMA
Astrobytes: (I liked your one better)
Scarfield: so did chuck norris
Scarfield: why are chuck norris jokes not a thing anymore :'(
struct: stacking tech debt is not easy
struct: the eval seems to be working
Scarfield: wait is desk 0 and 7 considered close?
struct: you can always do
emh: hmm trying to vtune my sim, but hotspot is in ntdll.. and it just gives a function address. how can I find the culprit?
struct: % 8U
Scarfield: xD you ran out of debt cards
struct: and bonus
MSmits: i thought 100 was some randomly high number you couldnt reach
struct: 2 lines eval beats my bot
struct: ill run brutal just to test
Astrobytes: was afk, Scarfield I have a book of Chuck Norris vs Mr T jokes
Astrobytes: emh: more bourbon obviously
struct: MSmits do you have any idea how to remove the error messages when you run brutaltester?
Astrobytes: don't run it
Astrobytes: is that the log4j thing?
MSmits: src/test/resources/log4j2.properties rootLogger.level = warn
MSmits: instead of info
Astrobytes: what Smits said
struct: do I need to create that directory?
MSmits: no the file is there
MSmits: it's just a line to change
MSmits: rootLogger.level = info becomes rootLogger.level = warn
Astrobytes: it's since the fix cause of that large log4j exploit a while ago I believe
MSmits: just to be clear, i know nothing of how any of this works. I am just copy pasting what yurko said
struct: hmm didnt work for me
struct: That worked for euler referee?
MSmits: maybe they are different messages
MSmits: euler has a different thing
Astrobytes: don't worry MSmits, I'm java-useless too
MSmits: i am using something different
Astrobytes: it's not a breaking error struct
Astrobytes: or shouldn't be
struct: its fine yeah
Astrobytes: just annoying
Astrobytes: if you want pretty output you know where the | is
Scarfield: im gonna bounce, enjoy your evening folks :)
Astrobytes: gn Bouncefield!
Scarfield: yo momma so big, she is a Bounce field
Scarfield: gn :)
Astrobytes: Scarfield: mom?! :D
struct: I hope there isnt 7 apps that require all the same cards
struct: 7 apps at once I mean
struct: is there a list of all the apps?
struct: Thank you
Astrobytes: a wild philipplenk appears
struct: it does seem to be 7
struct: 8 would break my bot :D
Astrobytes: argh, my eyes
Astrobytes: the java
struct: ah lol
Astrobytes: that's horrid
Astrobytes: got my github on dark, same as windows, same as CG
BrunoFelthes: WoW, wala is leading with Java :D
Astrobytes: wala is a beast with java
struct: petition to remove java
BrunoFelthes: Yeah, I know... I'm always the 2nd or 3th... I used to be the 1st before wala... he have a great framework
Astrobytes: struct: It would be wala you'd have to remove lol
BrunoFelthes: top 10 -> 1 Java 9 C++
struct: why solve 1 problem when I can solve multiple?
BrunoFelthes: what is the secret wala?
Astrobytes: Nice. I expect a few other languages to pop up in the end
wala: BrunoFelthes i did the same thing as in the framework
Astrobytes: BrunoFelthes: you should check some pm's and tips given in various threads
wala: beam search
Astrobytes: Beam, interesting.
MSmits: weird, with the probabilities
struct: why MSmits?
struct: you can still take into account probabilities
Astrobytes: Not if you include them as states
MSmits: well you don't have a definite state
Astrobytes: and can rule out a few
Astrobytes: I guess
MSmits: you have to rule out millions if you want to go deep
wala: yes the draws induce sometimes wrong actions
Astrobytes: sure, that seems reasonable
MSmits: I'll start on a new bot tomorrow, this bot has reached max potential
Astrobytes: and I don't think going tooo deep is overly beneficial
wala: Astrobytes i think that too
MSmits: you still need eval then
MSmits: that's hard
MSmits: i kinda liked the idea of MC till end of game
struct: and ignore opponent?
MSmits: just make a draw pile for him and go
Astrobytes: isn't that what psyho was doing?
MSmits: i like the method
Astrobytes: ouch, sorry for the ping
MSmits: i feel like i'll just get stuck on eval again if i do a beamsearch or other search with limited depth
Astrobytes: fix your static evaluation heuristic skills MSmits
MSmits: I went from 25 to 10 params today
struct: I dont even think I can call what im doing bitboards tbh
MSmits: bot is the same rank
struct: Im just using the bits as info
Astrobytes: struct: keeping data packed in ints isn't bitboarding
struct: Im doing 5 * 8 bits for skills, 8 bonus 8 tech 8 size
struct: I guess
MSmits: yeah thats what i was gonna do, but barely worth the effort
Astrobytes: yeah, it's just being economical
struct: It wasnt too much work tbh
MSmits: if i go try that MC thing it's just using a single state anyway, not storing
MSmits: no the coding isnt much work, finding the one bug i put in during the coding is the work
struct: Yeah that is truth
struct: Thats what asserts are for :p
Astrobytes: heh heh indeed
MSmits: anyway, i should sleep now
struct: imagine that I wrote -1 on my data
struct: it would be deadly
Astrobytes: doesn't catch those legal bugs you make though
MSmits: will focus on coding tomorrow, see you on sunday prolly
Astrobytes: gn MSmits just get some rest either way
MSmits: yep thanks
Illedan: Had an idea with 60 % winrate offline. Instant submit... 10 more min of training => 40 % -.-
Astrobytes: Like I said earlier, don't submit! :grin:
Illedan: Can't even conclude on 100 games with this contest -.-
BrunoFelthes: I just dont know how to debug my code, it is annoying with this game rules
Manchi_o6o7: Can someone help me with making a map of lambdas in c++
Manchi_o6o7: I am having some bugs :/
Astrobytes: very bad time to ask Manchi
Manchi_o6o7: if I can make it easier, it's line 15. which doesn't allow me to call the function
Astrobytes: we're working on a contest
Astrobytes: == bad time to ask
Manchi_o6o7: ouu sorry
Astrobytes: play the contest instead, 4-ish days left :D
Sheeesh---: and it's fun
Astrobytes: in a masochistic kjnd of way at first but fun yes
Twelve0: why everyone in silver has 500 games in Last battles?
Twelve0: oh or is it the limit that is shown
Neumann: Games get cleaned from servers afterwards, only the 500 last ones are available
Astrobytes: how you doing dude, been a while
Neumann: Casually trying to make something out of this contest
Neumann: So far : meh
Neumann: And you ?
Astrobytes: hehe, it's a 'different' contest
Neumann: Aren't they all, in a way
Astrobytes: yeah, trying to do something, I might just give up in gold
Neumann: Gold is nice already
Wontonimo: i hear whisper that there is a cheese method of getting to silver. Anyone feel like enlightening me
Astrobytes: I don't think that works any more Wontonimo
struct: hi Wontonimo there was a time that printing first action worked
struct: not sure anymore
Astrobytes: but using that and some smarts might work, not sure
Astrobytes: I feel like the only person who didn't go to silver doing that
Astrobytes: or bronze for that matter
Astrobytes: You can try Westicles MOVE +1 or first action I guess
elderlybeginner: Do you have some basic heuristic ideas, that are simple and make difference in the contest?
elderlybeginner: escpecially in play and release phase
Astrobytes: déjà vu from last night!
Astrobytes: Release phase, careful what you release and with what cards
Astrobytes: *and when
elderlybeginner: that "when" I just base on debt cost
Astrobytes: remember WAIT is also an option in RELEASE phase
elderlybeginner: and releaseing the cheapest one
Astrobytes: that's good but you can get away with a couple of expensive ones if needed
elderlybeginner: when it's below 4
Astrobytes: lol, yeah
Astrobytes: doing the same
elderlybeginner: THROW_CARD and GIVE_CARD - is there any easy gain with opposite to random?
Astrobytes: well, throw your least needed cards and give away the ones that you don't need/aren't going to use/won't give the other player some advantage I guess
Astrobytes: a combination of the above really
elderlybeginner: that's sounds like scoring function for value of the cards at certain phase
Astrobytes: well that's essentially correct
elderlybeginner: but there should be "lower hanging fruits"
ilgiocatore: yep, you can just automate bonus cards as much as you can
Astrobytes: I think we harvested them all by this point in silver.
Astrobytes: Yes there is bonus automation
ilgiocatore: and nothing else matters
ilgiocatore: in silver
ilgiocatore: and in lower gold league
elderlybeginner: automating bonus is better then automating anything else?
ilgiocatore: it makes sense to automated other cards only in the end of the game
ilgiocatore: i think
elderlybeginner: eh, I see I have it already implemented
Astrobytes: yeah, it depends on other factors or it was OP at the time
elderlybeginner: any easy fix for moving shortest, but not getting into 'disturb'
Astrobytes: skipping the admin desk?
Astrobytes: or just opponent?
elderlybeginner: skipping opponet +1
Astrobytes: electroshardz: it's just a different way of writing it
elderlybeginner: gives you [True/False] which is [1/0]
Astrobytes: elderlybeginner: check if they're either at the desk or nearby to the desk (by some number of desks) can work
elderlybeginner: which makes index
yanamal: a if a=b else "no" ?..
yanamal: rather, a if a==b else "no" ?..
yanamal: is apparently equivalent to [a,"no"][a==b]
Astrobytes: because snake things
elderlybeginner: a = 'no' if a==b else a
Astrobytes: also hi yanamal, don't recall seeing you since was it the Kutulu contest?
yanamal: my god. they are using a boolean as a list index.
yanamal: Hey Astrobytes, good memory!
Astrobytes: remembered the profile pic tbh!
yanamal: I went to grad school and was too busy to accidentally sink weeks into competitions
yanamal: well, still am, but I relapsed
Astrobytes: This was a clash right electroshardz?
elderlybeginner: smart == me gives you True or False, which is 1 or 0, so e.g. if you get 1 (True) then ['there', 'not there'] gives you 'not there'
Astrobytes: yanamal: awesome, you missed the spring contest! Few and far between are these contests these days
yanamal: Ah, I guess I got lucky. I was showing the easy puzzles to someone I was tutoring and saw the current contest and got hooked again. oopsie.
yanamal: (and/or unlucky about the spring contest).
elderlybeginner: Oh, MOVE 0 is bad move
Astrobytes: yanamal: whatever you do never look at clist.by
Astrobytes: MOVE 0 is a bad move if you're on 7
yanamal: electroshardz the ,b is just a separate independent print, you can print several comma-separated things
yanamal: Astrobytes oh dear. well I'm too lazy for contests that make me jump through too many hoops to get started anyway. I tried a couple game contests on Kaggle but got distracted too easily.
Astrobytes: yanamal heh heh, yeah, that's where CG has the upper hand. Topcoder Marathons are nice (optimization games) and we have russian AI cup in July, that's easy enough to get started with depending how many pages there are in the rules PDF :)
Astrobytes: Both have an offline runner executable though, which is nice
Astrobytes: electroshardz: Gives you something to practice and learn more about ;)
yanamal: Astrobytes good to know in case I ever want to get kicked out of grad school for spending too much time writing ai bots :)
Astrobytes: [Kaggle is a mess (imo) btw]
yanamal: haha agree.
Astrobytes: yanamal: why not spend all your downtime doing things you love? :D
Astrobytes: but seriously, yeah, grad school first
elderlybeginner: the contest description is far from being clear
yanamal: electroshardz you can try learning more about the "ternary if operator" in python, and see if that makes more sense in place of the weird list expression
elderlybeginner: what iniciate "THROW_CARD" phase?
elderlybeginner: and is it worth to omit it always?
yanamal: what is this "downtime" you speak of?
Astrobytes: any time you need to discard a card
Astrobytes: yanamal: hehehe right on :D What you studying?
yanamal: Technically, computer science. In practice, it's a lot more social science than I like because I have chosen to go into human-computer interaction.
Astrobytes: HCI is cool though. We need a lot more outstanding understanding of that in the field of technology if you ask me.
Astrobytes: You can't leave it to devs
Nerchio: if my draw is 0 and i try to draw it takes discard yeah?
Astrobytes: Yeah Nerchio, it puts discard pile into draw and shuffles it
struct: and if its 1 and you use training
struct: it gets the 1 from draw and then 1 from discard
Nerchio: danke schon
Astrobytes: A Pole thanking a Scot and Portuguese in German
yanamal: yeah. but writing HCI papers and actually getting them accepted to HCI conferences is a pain, especially if I also try to squeeze in things that are actually important to me, not just things that will make my paper look acceptable in the eyes of HCI reviewers.
Astrobytes: yanamal: that's the problem of research.
yanamal: yep. My parents tried to warn me. and now they like to remind me of this fact.
Astrobytes: Beginning of the end. Get out while you can.
Astrobytes: Finish, it looks great on paper. Then go do what you want to do.
yanamal: yeah, that's the plan I think. I definitely do not want to do the pyramid scheme of academia.
Astrobytes: No. It's terrible. I mastered in cell biology, the whole world of research is exactly the same.
Astrobytes: struct: you should petition CG to keep the chat since people are coming back to the site
struct: What power do I have?
Astrobytes: Infinite Mod Power ofc
Astrobytes: Didn't they give you that?
struct: Best case scenario was the chat to be back during contests I guess
struct: at least
Astrobytes: Yeah. That would require a certain level of what might be called 'maintenance' though
struct: or just dont let any new user have access to chat
struct: It think its an hard decision
struct: The chat has been great lately but before it was really bad
struct: But its not really "our" fault
Astrobytes: The *reason* the chat was terrible (other than lack of features) was really lack of *new content* ie. events I think
Astrobytes: *mod features
Astrobytes: when it was more regular there was less nonsense, and if there was it moved too fast to be noticed
Astrobytes: I get their decision though, when it's bad it's almost uncontrollable
struct: for me it would stay
struct: It was only bad for a few weeks
Astrobytes: I don't miss modding but I did change my mind about the chat
Astrobytes: it gets worse with school terms and seasons, I feel there are other ways it could be controlled, but who am I to question the CoderPad
struct: Step 1, make chat open source, 2nd make comunity do it
Astrobytes: If they were never bought by a large company I feel they might have done that at some point. It won't happen now though
Astrobytes: large *US* company
Astrobytes: anyway, time for a couple of beers before bed, see ya tomorrow
BrunoFelthes: wala esta com bean
struct: ┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ)
struct: its from somewhere else
struct: Just search unflip table emoji
struct: the contest
struct: its fine