Chat:World/2021-10-05

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eulerscheZahl: miszu :rage:

miszu: HIII :D

miszu: how you doing?

eulerscheZahl: well played

miszu: wait

miszu: it will go higher

miszu: I improved even more but some cases timeout

miszu: eulerscheZahl check now :D

eulerscheZahl: 7th

miszu: yup, that's my max now haha

ANONYMOUS42: thank you Westicles

ANONYMOUS42: i finally found the problem with my simulation

ANONYMOUS42: what's the theory behind having x += velx + 0.5 * accx

ANONYMOUS42: i thought it would be just x+= velx and velx+= accx

ANONYMOUS42: i don't understand that + 0.5 * acc part

miszu: eulerscheZahl no but thanks a lot. You gave me good idea where to improve and it helped me

eulerscheZahl: no problem, i'm always happy when others play "my" games

eulerscheZahl: afk now, breakfast then work

miszu: okay have a good day :D

derjack: tutorial games like onitama?

ESMAKING: Hello

ESMAKING: :D

TimothyAlexisVass: Hi ESMAKING

ESMAKING: How are you TimothyAlexisVass

TimothyAlexisVass: Tired

TimothyAlexisVass: sad about the state of Humanity

TimothyAlexisVass: And soon I'm going to have good lunch :D

APOK: I'm from Vietnam

APOK: Hi

derjack: ohai

Waitingforplayer...: fuck

Waitingforplayer...: phắc diu

Waitingforplayer...: đờ mờ mờ

Waitingforplayer...: cờ lờ gờ tờ

Monsiur_Minh: :))

Monsiur_Minh: địt cụ mày

Waitingforplayer...: oo

Waitingforplayer...: kimochi

APOK: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/199751366d41750bf28d192c1cbdea273cd28f7

Monsiur_Minh: O_O

APOK: 4

APOK: 31

APOK: 51

Uljahn: pls contain your spam

Monsiur_Minh: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/1997522fdd4acb161a914fa4a4cb40d393e6f4c

Uljahn: use #clash channel for clash invites

Default avatar.png TheManeatingCheesecake_ddf2: hello my friend

Default avatar.png Ayush11: hello

Default avatar.png gerard_croisier: Hello I have to pass a test on codingame for a job do you know where I can get some examples ? The test will be on python and R

[CG]Thibaud: it seems you had an answer on #fr

SeaFox95: @gerard you can try this link: https://www.codingame.com/evaluate/

Default avatar.png GreatStopwatch_f89: lol

bdrnglm: I've tried that link a long time ago. Since then I can't take another test anymore.

bdrnglm: Is there a way to take that test again ?

FollowerOJ: oh

HARRYPOTTERFANATIC: Hello, peoples.

Default avatar.png None121232: You and your buddies are bored and decide to throw watermelons off high places onto the ground (Dont try this at home). The watermelons are thrown perfectly horizontally at a velocity of V from a height of Y. You decided to calculate the time it took in seconds (t) - rounded to the nearest integer, and the horizontal distance (X) it travelled before hitting the ground in meters.

Default avatar.png None121232: can anyone solve it?

Default avatar.png xoxoixo: guys does tthis thing really help

Uljahn: what are you talking about?

Default avatar.png ForgottenSpoonAndHisDog_b2e2: hello my new friends

Default avatar.png kimsejin123: hi

Default avatar.png GreatStopwatch_f89: Hello :)

Default avatar.png DX09: hello

Default avatar.png ForgottenSpoonAndHisDog_b2e2: :grinning:

Default avatar.png kimsejin123: ang gimozzi

eulerscheZahl: None121232 this doesn't look solvable as it is. What are the known values? the height?

Uljahn: None121232: find the time of the free fall, multiply by horizontal velocity, ez

Default avatar.png GreatStopwatch_f89: gimozzi wdym?

miszu: qq for all. The CG sponsored contest, is it hard to reverse engineer it?

eulerscheZahl: not that hard. you will know when you did it

Default avatar.png DJBlueChild_ffef: .

HARRYPOTTERFANATIC: Hello, peoples. What have I been missing?

Uljahn: a ban?

Default avatar.png LagunaElectric: ?

HARRYPOTTERFANATIC: ???

Default avatar.png LagunaElectric: Why a ban?

eulerscheZahl: repeated spamming for days

Uljahn: for your contribution to coding-related discussions being nonexistent

TheBlueBias: HARRYPOTTERFANATIC ask a ban... :rofl:

Default avatar.png xoxoixo: anyof u guys got tips or tricks for me

Astrobytes: Never eat the yellow snow.

Default avatar.png xoxoixo: i just started programming in school

Default avatar.png xoxoixo: still here?!

TheBlueBias: ZappastroBytes

Astrobytes: ;)

Uljahn: xoxoixo: learn the basics, practice, learn advanced stuff, practice more etc.

MASTER123: : )

miszu: ok so the reverse engineering optimization problem... no idea how scoring system works. Feels like for COD BO: The number Mason... what do they mean?

MASTER123: :joy:

MASTER123: :no_mouth:

MASTER123: :heart_eyes::yum:

eulerscheZahl: won't tell, figuring that out is most of the fun miszu

MASTER123: viet nam

eulerscheZahl: MASTER123 please stop

Astrobytes: Stop spamming emojis right now.

Astrobytes: Or else

MASTER123: ok

eulerscheZahl: kick or ban because it's still a few days for trick or treat

MASTER123: ...

Astrobytes: lol

MASTER123: stop

Astrobytes: hammertime?

miszu: there are 6 inputs to figure out. One of them is just the number of loops so that is nice... it's just the 5 others.. the outputs... and the scoring system

MASTER123: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/19979951ca4872a314516de75994fe3de3a2139

Astrobytes: MASTER123: clash links go in #clash channel

MASTER123: join

Astrobytes: No.

MASTER123: please

TheBlueBias: eulerscheZahl: does the cgfp referee interpreter fully handles unicode chars in the program?

eulerscheZahl: it does as far as java does

eulerscheZahl: my solution prints the unicode from int values, easier than copy-paste

TheBlueBias: Right. I copy-pasted though... ^^' But two validators don't pass with this new code, and I don't get why. :thinking:

eulerscheZahl: have you tried opening the contribution is you see what's happening?

TheBlueBias: Running the referee you mean?

eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/demo/8243058ea8a7c2a0894e9b9196533a9a8a52bb

eulerscheZahl: so you see the validators

TheBlueBias: Oh! Well I checked them on github, but I'll check again this way. Thanks!

TheBlueBias: Can't open validated contribs yet.

TheBlueBias: The validators aren't all presents in this link. Or perhaps I can't see them because of my level?

miszu: eulerscheZahl how long did you need to figure out the pattern?

TheBlueBias: Pattern?

SUNNFIT: Hello guys

eulerscheZahl: i don't really remember, did that years ago. 1 afternoon maybe

Default avatar.png Robot15: yo

Wontonimo: hey miszu, you beat me in 2048

Wontonimo: tell me your secrets!

Wontonimo: have you moved to TheBlueBias for good, or are you still using your other account?

TheBlueBias: What other account?

Wontonimo: oh

Wontonimo: ;)

miszu: Hey Wontonimo :D

Wontonimo: :wave:

Uljahn: Wontonimo: it's not a secret java has no chances vs C++ with pragmas

miszu: I was waiting for you to tell you about it

Uljahn: gratz miszu

miszu: thanks Uljahn

Wontonimo: ah, so first is to switch my solution to c++

miszu: yeah you need some speed here

miszu: it doesn't matter that much but it's helpful

miszu: however figuring out the CG reverse engineer problem on the other hand... I am staring at those inputs and outputs and can't see a pattern

Wontonimo: hehe

Wontonimo: i won't spoil it for you

miszu: lol no one wants to spoil it for me :P

miszu: that's okay

eulerscheZahl: because that's the most fun part of the game

miszu: but it took you a lot of time to figure it out?

Wontonimo: i can give you a hint

Wontonimo: but it'll spoil it

miszu: ok don't say it

TimothyAlexisVass: miszu did you look at the hints?

Wontonimo: it took me a while, yes. lots of looking at patterns, playing with inputs

Wontonimo: no no ... don't look at hints !

miszu: haha okay

miszu: I won't look at it

_NikJ: Finally beat the MightyCarlo in UTTT, jeez what a task

miszu: all I know is one of the init input is just for the loop :P #cryptography

Wontonimo: once i figured out the secret, the game lost all interest. really, figuring out the secret was the really rewarding part

miszu: not even trying to beat the score?

Q12: I don't agree Wontonimo

Wontonimo: congrats _NikJ !

Q12: when you reveal the secret the game becomes a regular CG puzzle

miszu: Q12 is right.

Wontonimo: it does. yes. *just a regular cg puzzle*

miszu: even the stupid scoring I can't understand lol

_NikJ: Switched to a TS variant, was 1st for a while but couldn't beat the MightyCarlo @Wontonimo

_NikJ: How do you tag people? I forgot xd

Wontonimo: TS variant?

_NikJ: mcts

Wontonimo: yeah, you tagged me. you don't need the "@"

_NikJ: If you recall I did MC sims

Wontonimo: just the persons name

_NikJ: Oh that's neat

darkhorse64: I still have not figured out everything yet. Not sure for the scoring and maybe for the entities

TimothyAlexisVass: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/27591350-cf61-46b9-8d30-2fb171d05d97

darkhorse64: But that was enough to climb high

Q12: I won't say it lost all of it interest, because the puzzle for itself (without the secret of discovering the puzzle) is quit good

Wontonimo: yeah, maybe i'll go back and give it more love

darkhorse64: I am interested in 2048 hints, though

eulerscheZahl: add up the hex digits TimothyAlexisVass?

miszu: darkhorse64 :D

eulerscheZahl: just do the snake and beam search

Wontonimo: hey _NikJ , 2 things: 1 - you can press tab after typing the first part of someones name and it will autocomplete if they are online

Wontonimo: 2 - do you know about the "solver" for MCTS?

miszu: yeah snake a beam search is what you need

miszu: and*

_NikJ: Wontonimo, thanks, and no, I don't

miszu: also make sure you remove dups states otherwised your beam will get suffered

DomiKo: how about problem with 2^16?

darkhorse64: That's what I do but it does not go high enough like all ppl around 25M

Wontonimo: i'll dm you about "solver" if you like

miszu: darkhorse64 also check hardwarre limitations like int32 vs int64

miszu: that was one of the issue as my ai decided to play dumb moves lol

miszu: because I overflowed.. oupsie haha

TimothyAlexisVass: oh

eulerscheZahl: do you print all your actions? the full beam depth

darkhorse64: I use 64 bits otherwise it blows up. I print only part of the beam and restart from this position

eulerscheZahl: sounds reasonable. and you also remove duplicate states from the beam

TimothyAlexisVass: Is there anyone who is proud of his/her CG reverse solution?

I figured out what it was, but I haven't yet thought of a way to move.

darkhorse64: Not this one

eulerscheZahl: there are lots of duplicates. your beam will quickly become a single state many times

darkhorse64: I have no hashing

TimothyAlexisVass: I mean to survive longest...

darkhorse64: Aha, probably the culprit

eulerscheZahl: and soon i'll drop another rank

eulerscheZahl: sigh

_NikJ: My goodness, I just visited CSB leaderboard after not checking it for 4 years. I love how everyone is fighting within 35-38 points mark and then there's the top 3 guys. With reCurse reaching an insane 60+ points, just wow

Uljahn: just NN things

eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/contests/spring-challenge-2021/leaderboard/global he completely destroyed us in the last contest

darkhorse64: I have played with many parameters but whatever I do, after 32K is reached, my search goes into a dead end. The single state may explain this

_NikJ: I love how FAR away he is from EVERYONE

eulerscheZahl: without him i would have said we are close to perfect gameplay, thus the similar scores

eulerscheZahl: but in reality we are just equally far away

darkhorse64: It reminds me of something written by Martin Fierz (Checkers fame) who thought checkers engines were perfect just before they got wrecked by NNs

miszu: darkhorse64 I had that issue where it became single stated

miszu: I created a set and checked how many states were unique

miszu: found out only I had like 4 or so

miszu: hashing is simple here as it is only a 4x4 grid to hash

_NikJ: I recall him wrecking everyone on fantastic bits, few years back, by A LOT eulerscheZahl

miszu: eveyrthing else is derived from the 4x4

miszu: did recurse used NN in previous competition?

Wontonimo: yes he did

miszu: bruuuh

miszu: how many repetitions of sims he did before the training was complete?

eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/spring-challenge-2021-feedbacks-strategies/190849/67

_NikJ: Apparently, a lot more (or just better) than everyone else, considering how much he wrecks all others miszu

darkhorse64: Time to dust my Zobrist hashing.

eulerscheZahl: as far as I know this is the most liked comment on the entire CG forum

**eulerscheZahl uses Zobrist for 2048 too

Gabbek: hello everyone :)

eulerscheZahl: hi

_NikJ: HA! I knew I wasn't crazy, I remember a blue avatar absolutely destroying CSB with NNs back then (blue avatar being pb4)

darkhorse64: No boss for LOA this evening

Gabbek: how's the day going? What are you up to guys?

eulerscheZahl: not much

eulerscheZahl: kotlin heroes in 2 days

eulerscheZahl: then the Huawei contest

Default avatar.png YassineGuem: learning some javascript, for developpement studies

darkhorse64: Next CG contest in more than six months, if any

Gabbek: cool, I wish you good luck! I was hoping I would enjoy the next contest but... uhh, gotta wait for non-escape contest I guess :|

eulerscheZahl: so you have to look for alternatives

eulerscheZahl: will be the first CG contest since the Accountant that i'm missing

eulerscheZahl: even played detective picaptcha and locam sprint

Gabbek: there's something pretty cool on kaggle, I remember nerchio sharing the link (think it's on CG discord somewhere)

eulerscheZahl: Lux AI?

Gabbek: oh yes, that's the name

eulerscheZahl: what turns me off is the extremely long duration

miszu: the real question is how he got a hand of an rtx 3080

miszu: I am trying to buy one

darkhorse64: exchange bitcoins against RTX

miszu: I can afford one it's just the availability

darkhorse64: RTX are all used for mining

Gabbek: I haven't really touched any contests outside CG - just writing some bots to gold league and trying to get rid of truly crappy stuff. I'm happy as few days ago I re-wrote my fall challenge 2020 to something much better and managed to get top 100 gold - pretty happy with it, compared to previous silver bot :(

miszu: not with the LHR version or w/e the acronyme

Gabbek: btw -- pretty good exercise: https://www.codingame.com/training/hard/the-hidden-fortress ; lost few days on it, but I'm pretty sure that others have solved it in an hour or a few, heh :)

darkhorse64: yet another BFS ?

Gabbek: a logic puzzle

eulerscheZahl: i have a feeling that it might be a max flow problem, but not sure (didn't think about if much)

darkhorse64: a picross

eulerscheZahl: if that's the same as nonogram: no

Gabbek: a bit different than picross I think, but I haven't seen anything similar before

darkhorse64: yeah, picross is french. That's what I thought reading the statement. I should read twice then

eulerscheZahl: because the nonogram gives you numbers for the edges

Gabbek: recently I found something quite unique: apparently slay the spire (pc game, roguelike deck builder) has mod support and you can develop your own AI to play the game :)

Gabbek: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obtg0tredJg

Gabbek: pretty old topic, but I've never seen it before - if anyone would be interested I can help out with setup, as it's a bit confusing but it's working perfectly

JacobTheCoder: hi

Gabbek: good day

JacobTheCoder: im tryna get better with my .lua any tips?

Gabbek: sadly I don't know any lua; most likely there are some good tutorials on the web, but that's about it, sorry :(

miszu: ok I looked at the hint. To be honest, I would not have figure out because i thought it was something to do with math

Gabbek: have you found it on the web miszu? I tried to find something after like 3 days but... nope, no idea how it's called :D

miszu: oh no there is a hint section in game

miszu: give you starting point but that's all

Gabbek: are we talking about the hidden fortress puzzle, or did I miss the context by mistake?

miszu: it's the coding game sponsored contest

Gabbek: ah, okey, I see what you mean now, thanks for clarification!

struct: Are you going to change anything else in loa darkhorse64?

darkhorse64: No, unless someone asks for a change. I just need to find the time for writing the boss

**darkhorse64 should not try to fix his 2048 optim

miszu: come on darkhorse64 :D

darkhorse64: Actually, I already had a sort of hashing, using my eval

**darkhorse64 discovers his own code

miszu: *can darkhorse64 find his bug?*

darkhorse64: But I never checked whether it was OK

TheBlueBias: A rare picture of darkhorse: https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1600/0*hpiMODx6OUkuU1f3.gif

TheBlueBias: Link fail... :(

darkhorse64: Do not click

darkhorse64: OK, time to leave

MSmits: it works fine if you copy paste it fully. Also it's exactly as I pictured darkhorse64

TheBlueBias: :smirk:

69razer69: how to start the coding escape i gathered my team and i want to start

eulerscheZahl: you wait 23 more days

eulerscheZahl: and 3 minutes

eulerscheZahl: gabbek can I see the fortress as a linear equation system? or are there multiple solution so that only the 0/1 condition makes it unique?

eulerscheZahl: hm, worked for the first testcase. but not sure if it will always work out

eulerscheZahl: i guess i could just dump it in numpy and see what happens

Uljahn: :scream_cat:

TheBlueBias: same

jacek: :upside_down:

eulerscheZahl: ok, got the 100% correct. but still not convinced that my solution will always work

eulerscheZahl: 2 solutions are pretty much the same as what I did. and for the 2 others I have no idea how they work

eulerscheZahl: and somehow once again my solution doesn't show up for others

eulerscheZahl: hide and republish worked, shrugs

TheSilent_Boy: .

darkhorse64: #17. Near miss, eulerscheZahl

eulerscheZahl: :scream:

darkhorse64: My hashing was broken. Always question your code

jacek: hm?

darkhorse64: You got a 6M margin

eulerscheZahl: that's not much

eulerscheZahl: but as I told miszu already: i'm happy when others play my contributions. feel free to bypass me

eulerscheZahl: for this one i've learnt some internals of the SDK to encode the replay more efficiently

eulerscheZahl: otherwise the 1MB limit would have killed the idea

jacek: still this is not true 2048 :(

darkhorse64: Same feeling for me for my two contribs. I like when your contribs push the limits

darkhorse64: true 2048 scores less

eulerscheZahl: the known spawn is the big difference

eulerscheZahl: but also makes any known papers useless, which isn't bad IMO

jacek: i have yet to make the n-tuple for 2048 useful

miszu: "feel free to bypass me".

miszu: I will not invade your country

eulerscheZahl: invading my country would mean creating more complex contributions in CG terms

jacek: :scream:

darkhorse64: #15, :smiling_imp:

eulerscheZahl: and only 3M difference now

darkhorse64: I am not sure if parameter tweaking will be enough to win 6M

eulerscheZahl: 6M? already planning to beat Neumann?

darkhorse64: Just behind. I'll be happy to be within top 10

miszu: darkhorse64 YOU SHALL NOT PASS ME

eulerscheZahl: I once was. even first. long ago

eulerscheZahl: the creator's advantage

miszu: day 1: eulerscheZahl got first place while everyone still writing the sims :P

darkhorse64: For the record, my hair is not yet grey and I have no beard

eulerscheZahl: and trying to understand my github code

miszu: I was talking about me

darkhorse64: I was referring to TheBlueBias pic

eulerscheZahl: my beard is slowly growing, home office made me lazy

miszu: oh dammn... funny yesterday evening I was just 13th with like 50k difference or so from eulerscheZahl

eulerscheZahl: before I used to shave once a week

miszu: work from home for the win

miszu: companies wants to force hybrid stle

miszu: gtfo lol

TheBlueBias: Shave?

eulerscheZahl: now i shave once every 2 months or so

Astrobytes: A Bearded Toad!

darkhorse64: I am happy to see your avatar only

eulerscheZahl: a stubbly toad

jacek: TheBlueBias pic.. is this lavos?

eulerscheZahl: it's his old pic, just in blue, isn't it?

TheBlueBias: And upside down. But like the idea jacek ^^

derjack: upside down avatar? lame

jacek: did he kill the chat? oO

TheBlueBias: He?

miszu: jacek did you assumed his gender?

jacek: eeyup

TheBlueBias: Yeah perhaps she's a she, or a tree, or a triton. How dare you say 'he'? :rage:

TheBlueBias: #TheBlueWoke

Scarfield: #UhBeetleWok

Astrobytes: AnagramField

Scarfield: staroBytes

Astrobytes: hehehe

Scarfield: an anagram for "anagram" is "anagram"

miszu: get out

miszu: I rediscovered high school math. Trigs of a triangle. Crazy how rusty you can be not doing it for years.

Scarfield: must resist the puns

miszu: say it

MSmits: he wants to make puns about rust

MSmits: but he has been saving them up and is waiting for when more rust people are online

MSmits: timing is everything

Astrobytes: Rustacean baiting eh

Scarfield: switch Rustacean out with master

door:

Astrobytes: . . .

Astrobytes: TMIfield

struct: Damn I still have no idea how to improve move gen on loa

miszu: for the zombie game, the (n+2)th fibonacci you start at index 0 or 1?

miszu: nvm found the answer

Default avatar.png BlueSnowflake_207c: 1

Default avatar.png grape: For the Botters of the Galaxy game, which hero is your favourite? Mine is Valkyrie

MasterCyph3r: any c++ programmers want to help me out real quick with this puzzle? lol

Westicles: sure

miszu: darkhorse64 wow you improved!

miszu: I gave you motivations it seems ;)

Default avatar.png PANDABOMB: Is this the discord for Coders strike back?

Default avatar.png PANDABOMB: Can I somehow get the coordinates of the next nextcheckpoint?

Plizan: HI

Default avatar.png PANDABOMB: hi

Default avatar.png Cryptical: hello

BCassady: calling all clashers!

eeeeeee7es: hello clashers! :point_up::nerd:

BCassady: I JUST CODED

Wontonimo: OMG!

Wontonimo: what was it like BCassady?

Wontonimo: hey PANDABOMB, yes you can get all the checkpoint coordinates

Wontonimo: as you see them, save then in an array, then once you see the first one again, you know what is coming up next

Wontonimo: there are also only so many different maps, so you can hard code all the maps into your code and identify which map you are in by the first checkpoint coordinates

Default avatar.png PANDABOMB: So you're saying that I should save coordinates as my pod touches them?

Wontonimo: yes sir

Default avatar.png PANDABOMB: Is there a way to pull the coordinates of my opponent's current checkpoint?

Wontonimo: what league are you in?

Default avatar.png PANDABOMB: Alright, so if I wanted to make a code that reacts to data pertaining to all the check points, I'd have to run that in the second lap

Default avatar.png PANDABOMB: bronze

Default avatar.png PANDABOMB: I just started

Default avatar.png PANDABOMB: I'm trying to get my pod to start turning before it even touches a check point

Default avatar.png PANDABOMB: So it drifts into the current target

Wontonimo: yeah, your opponents info should be available in bronze

Wontonimo: congrats for getting to bronze so fast

Default avatar.png PANDABOMB: All I have their coordinates

Default avatar.png PANDABOMB: That's it

Default avatar.png PANDABOMB: I think

Wontonimo: if you simulate your pods location if it were to drift then you can check if drifting is the right thing to do

Wontonimo: the calculations are all listed in the writeup on the left if you scroll down

Wontonimo: down

Default avatar.png PANDABOMB: oh okay thanks

Wontonimo: there is a 15% drag per turn, and a max turn of 18 degrees

Wontonimo: i used a loop to look 5 frames into the future and simply check if my pod will be in the checkpoint area in any of those frames. very simple check and it works really well. it doesn't take into account that I actually turn or change thrust

Wontonimo: if you do add those factors then it will be more accurate, but even just the friction and a look ahead of 5 frames will work wonders

Wontonimo: have you read about PID controllers PANDABOMB ?

Default avatar.png PANDABOMB: oh interesting. I can tell that my grasp of C# is not advance enough to simulate what you're saying yet

Default avatar.png PANDABOMB: lol

Default avatar.png PANDABOMB: But I really appreciate the advice

Default avatar.png PANDABOMB: I just finished a 3 month boot camp with the Tech Academy

Default avatar.png PANDABOMB: Im' still pretty fresh and Im' learning

Wontonimo: would you like a hand with it?

Default avatar.png PANDABOMB: idk if you are familiar with C# but this is where I'm at

Default avatar.png PANDABOMB: https://pastebin.com/pU63gVQP

Wontonimo: I won't code it for you, but I can point out how it is actually easier than you may thing