jacek: good morning
gigabuffoon: good morning!
gigabuffoon: wait are you a jagiellonian
gigabuffoon: those guys were the best
jacek: the kings? oO
gigabuffoon: definitely
struct: im messing with you Wontonimo
struct: sorry :(
Wontonimo: haha
Wontonimo: it's all good
struct: im sure it will be fine
Wontonimo: it's not the first time. won't be the last. i do live very close to a lot of wilderness, so it is expected
struct: it seems china has over 2 billion rats
struct: you will be fine
Westicles: custom game of life
Westicles: potw
struct: seems easy enough
struct: ill try it tomorrow
Wontonimo: nearly midnight. gn all
struct: gn
roughtough: heya
ProCoder03: For FlatMC in CvZ, should I make the guy move towards an random zombie ??
darkhorse64: moving towards a zombie is not always a good move for scoring. IRL, it never is
ProCoder03: Then ??
ProCoder03: should we move towards the person who has most zombies on his trail ??
darkhorse64: Actually, I have used a GA for solving. My initial guess is completely random moves and my fitness function is just the score
ProCoder03: wow, GA... I don't know GA!!
ProCoder03: Need to learn it then...
ProCoder03: Ahh... I found out one, in forum..
ProCoder03: Thanks darkhorse64
darkhorse64: for starting, you can do the following: say you solution is an array of moves (40 is enough). Fill it randomly, run the sim, eval. Then, make an random mutation on the array, sim, eval, keep the best. Repeat until you run out of time. This is called hill climbing
darkhorse64: This should be better than flatMC
ProCoder03: Awesome !! Thanks
ProCoder03: but how do we do a random mutation
darkhorse64: Select a random place in your array and change the current value with a random one
ProCoder03: :thumbsup:
darkhorse64: A GA uses a pool of solutions. At each cycle, you keep the best solutions and you build a new solution from two randomly selected solutions. For a given move, you pick randomly a move from one or the other solution. You can also keep part of one solution and fill the remainder from the other
ProCoder03: just like hill climbing in a tournament style, right ?
darkhorse64: You can also keep some of the best solutions with a random mutation and have a new few random solutions to avoid getting stuck in a local minimum. Yep, the tournament style is probably the right picture
ProCoder03: Thank you so much darkhorse64
JustinZhang: Oh what is GA
ProCoder03: Genetic algorithm
darkhorse64: There are many twists you can apply to a GA: pool size, rate of mutation which have a dramatic effect on the efficiency. Genetic algorithm. So there is no single implementation for a GA
darkhorse64: The most important things are how you model your problem (which parameters you evolve) and the fitness function
ProCoder03: the fitness function is the scoring function right??
darkhorse64: For CvZ, yes. This is enough. For more complex problems, you need to evaluate many more features
ProCoder03: why does CG take my completion in to account while finding the best score??
ProCoder03: Can't they just take the best score :confused:
darkhorse64: Your goals is to save at least one human per test
ProCoder03: :disappointed:
darkhorse64: Humans score high
ProCoder03: wow, even my naive method seems to be performing good :smiley:
apcoder: Hey can anyone help me with stub generator input.I am new to contributions.
JustinZhang: thanks guy
gigabuffoon: Made it to top 100 clash tonight!! Exciting :) fun platform
gigabuffoon: these longer formats are much scarier, lol
ash15khng: lol i see you keep winning
JustinZhang: When I get the higher rank in COC everything Is harder
JustinZhang: lol
Saturne: You should have tried that one Justin
WakimMRT: hello
JustinZhang: hello
kyoya34: hello
kyoya34: have any of you guys completed dont panic episode one?
Uljahn: sure
kyoya34: im not able to pass all test cases
kyoya34: how did u do it
Uljahn: debug
kyoya34: uhh..im a begginer bro
BlaiseEbuth: debug
ProCoder03: is there anything like beginner can't debug or what :confused:
littlebear: good evening
kyoya34: there is no error in my code to debug
kyoya34: it passed 5/7 test cases
kyoya34: but it takes too long
kyoya34: and i cant find any way to decrease the time complexity
ProCoder03: what language ??
kyoya34: cpp
ProCoder03: and if statements shouldn't take long
kenav: have you used cerr << "Debug messages..." << endl; ?
kenav: check all the variables on the last floor :)
kenav: kyoya34, sorry I thought you were talking about "Submiting" code. To pass tests - make sure you used "elevatorFloor" and "elevatorPos" variables :)
kyoya34: thats the thing...i am not getting how to use elevator pos variable
kyoya34: elevator pos is defined inside a loop..so i cant use it outside
ProCoder03: just define it outside and use
ProCoder03: Ezpz
kenav: +1. feel free to change auto-generated code !
kyoya34: ok..thanlyou
kyoya34: thankyou*
ProCoder03: I finished it now in just 10 additional lines....
Fettles: hey guys
ProCoder03: Hey..
ProCoder03: Can someone explain conway sequence please ?
C26_1: Conway sequence is a sequence started with two first terms equal to 1 as feeds
C26_1: Here we denoted P(n) as nth number in Conway sequence
ProCoder03: Thanks...
C26_1: The recursion relation is this: p(n) = p(p(n-1)) + p(n-p(n-1))
Astrobytes: *recurrence
darthinvader666: hello
MiyamuraIzumi: Hello gúy
C26_1: um, I have a question: What website can I put my math research into without cost and without needed PhD. I know it's unrelated to computer science but help me this once
C26_1: I'm search in google for a while but it didn't resolve the problem
struct: isnt research gate free?
C26_1: Ummmmmmmmmmm
C26_1: Im gonna go to that webiste for a moment
AllYourTrees: arxiv
C26_1: website*
AllYourTrees: ?
C26_1: Arxiv is good but it didn't help you create your own paper
C26_1: hold up a second
C26_1: ResearchGate website needs your research email
C26_1: How can I use my email to become research email
struct: ah I didnt remember that research mail was needed
jolindien: C26_1 overleaf.com/
Hiro-GG: welp
Hiro-GG: i did everything correct and i got success on all tests
Hiro-GG: but i got 75%
Hiro-GG: why
Astrobytes: validators != tests
Astrobytes: They're different to prevent hardcoded answers.
Hiro-GG: i did the same thing i did in another game
Hiro-GG: on the last game i got 100%
Hiro-GG: but on this one i got 75%
Hiro-GG: i dont understand it bruh
Hiro-GG: i did the exact same
Uljahn: guess it was one of those low-effortly approved clashes
eulerscheZahl: hooray to the quest map
eulerscheZahl: https://eulerschezahl.herokuapp.com/codingame/puzzles/stats/
that bar chart is loading slower and slower, maybe i should optimize the query
BlaiseEbuth: select * from *
eulerscheZahl: much worse. I extracted some properties such as author and type (clash/puzzle) in separate columns. but also store the full json response in my DB
struct: Who shows as owner of yavalath?
eulerscheZahl: for the chart I realized that I haven't stored the date in its own column. so I parse the full json each time you load the chart
eulerscheZahl: it's struct because I stored that contrib before you deleted
struct: I see
littlebear: lol
struct: they updated it though
struct: Im the owner again
eulerscheZahl: oh
struct: except on the main page of the puzzle
eulerscheZahl: https://eulerschezahl.herokuapp.com/codingame/puzzles/?q=struct&category=ANY&author=on
you madea clash?
struct: on ide im the owner
struct: yes
struct: when I played clashes
struct: very long ago
struct: just a formula so I could win some clashes
littlebear: struct you love board games ?
eulerscheZahl: n*n*(n+1)/2
eulerscheZahl: looks beoring
eulerscheZahl: boring
struct: well its a clash :p
struct: no littlebear
struct: I dont really play board games
eulerscheZahl: he loves porting them and drive smits nuts
Astrobytes: unless it's called Breakthrough that is
struct: one day ill finish it
struct: just like stc
eulerscheZahl: you won't
struct: yeah probably not
struct: I usually stop at eval
eulerscheZahl: and before subimt
struct: The good thing about mcts games is that they dont really need one
struct: But I can understand why people dont enjoy them
struct: hard to make improvements
AllYourTrees: evals :scream:
AllYourTrees: i can't copy paste an eval between games for ez wins
struct: true
struct: my uttt bt and c4 are all the same bot
struct: pretty much
AllYourTrees: love it
struct: just a few more features on bt due to ept and it being more recent
AllYourTrees: it'd be cool if we could submit bots that could play multiple games
eulerscheZahl: be the change you want to see
eulerscheZahl: create multiple games and put them in the same contrib
MiyamuraIzumi: :D
AllYourTrees: we can call it "Sim City"
struct: make it play multiple games at once
struct: to make it even harder
AllYourTrees: oooh
eulerscheZahl: UTTT but you play on all 9 boards at the same turn
MiyamuraIzumi: harder to be appoved :D
darkhorse64: fog UTTT: you do not see opponent moves
AllYourTrees: :nauseated_face:
MiyamuraIzumi: so 9 different version of UTTT
MiyamuraIzumi: fog UTTT is one of them
struct: we need hex uttt
ZeroMemory: test
struct: test received
AllYourTrees: test failed
ZeroMemory: :joy::joy::joy:
eulerscheZahl: validator
AllYourTrees: okay for multiple games at once, do you make moves in all games per turn? or choose a single game to make a move in?
eulerscheZahl: up to you to make the rules
eulerscheZahl: or just generate a new set of rules every time a game is played. and pass it to the bots in some standardized way
Muppitfood: Anyone know why coders strike back have so many more entries than the other competitions?
eulerscheZahl: because it's the onboarding game
darkhorse64: It's called General Game Playing
eulerscheZahl: i didn't know the exact term
eulerscheZahl: i know that aCat is interested in that field
BlaiseEbuth: That's cool. I worked a little on it.
darkhorse64: A meta language that describes the game and some hints. I think Ludii is an GGP example
BlaiseEbuth: But you don't play multiple games at once. You just get the game rules as inputs.
darkhorse64: You need a meta bot to understand rules and play the games
xsabi: Hey! Do you have any news about Fall Challenge 2021 so far?
darkhorse64: none
struct: maybe
struct: :zipper_mouth:
xsabi: Thanks. A bit worryingm, but maybe in October we'll know more.
darkhorse64: You said already too much, struct
AllYourTrees: SPILL THE BEANS
eulerscheZahl: struct? speak out!
mkkhell: where can i find the puzzle of the week?
struct: im trolling sorry
eulerscheZahl: were they looking for community testers again?
**eulerscheZahl slaps around a bit with a large fishbot
AllYourTrees: T R O L L I N G
eulerscheZahl: R A C E C O N D I T I O N
OldJohn: D E A D L O C K
mkkhell: test
ProCoder03: When are you guys planning to validate ??
ProCoder03: is there a mathematics trick for Magic count of numbers puzzle ??
littlebear: test received
eulerscheZahl: planning to validate what?
eulerscheZahl: puzzle of the week @mkkhell
https://www.codingame.com/training/easy/custom-game-of-life
mrs.kind: hello
eulerscheZahl: Magic count of numbers
I just generated all the valid numbers by adding prime factors. but there's another way. search for "principle of inclusion and exclusion"
littlebear: hi mrs
mrs.kind: how are you lilbear?
eulerscheZahl: wait nvm. I used that principle too
littlebear: i am fine thanks, how you doing
ProCoder03: Yeah.. I am doing it by using sets and generating numbers but I get out of memory error
mrs.kind: eh, i punched a brick wall and a tree
littlebear: haha
ProCoder03: Is there a wiki on that ...
mrs.kind: i isnt mad
MiyamuraIzumi: hello guys
mrs.kind: i was just calm
eulerscheZahl: https://cp-algorithms.com/combinatorics/inclusion-exclusion.html
ProCoder03: Thanks eulerscheZahl
eulerscheZahl: and for another basic question: "how many numbers <= 10 are divisible by 3?"
MiyamuraIzumi: if we have solver in MCTS then we will change selection so that it will include the solve flag (I use flag to marked a node as solved)
eulerscheZahl: 10/3 = 3 (rounded down). So you can count them without enumerating
eulerscheZahl: that's all you need to know
MiyamuraIzumi: so that it will always select the win-node and don't select the lose node
ProCoder03: Ohhh.... That sounds easy...
MiyamuraIzumi: am I correct?
mrs.kind: should i change my username?
ProCoder03: no need mrs.kind
mrs.kind: why?
ProCoder03: but if you want to, you can
eulerscheZahl: also there's an easy version of the puzzle you are facing: https://projecteuler.net/problem=1
eulerscheZahl: the famous first puzzle of project euler, that can be solved with pencil and paper
darkhorse64: MiyamuraIzumi: why select a solved node ? It will not learn you anything new
eulerscheZahl: because it affects the stats of the parent node?
MiyamuraIzumi: but we know that this node is solved right?
ProCoder03: Ohh... I remember solving it, but by using C#..
mrs.kind: i have like 4 accounts on this website
eulerscheZahl: i have only 1
eulerscheZahl: eulerscheZahl
ProCoder03: OMG!!
mrs.kind: dont ask me what their names are
ProCoder03: 4 acc., for what ??
darkhorse64: If you have already solved children, you'd better solve others so that you can solve the node
mrs.kind: i have alot of account for things
darkhorse64: Unless one child is a Win, which means the node is a Loss and that you do not need to solve the other children
mrs.kind: plus if ya guys and girls knew my account they'll prob ban me again
mrs.kind: anyway i just got done with coders strike back
PureDay: so ur that
PureDay: eve.ha.hooves person?
ProCoder03: Okay if I have 3 primes, then I have to divide the no for 3! acc. to inclusion and exclusion principle, how do we do it ??
mrs.kind: nope never heard of eve.ha.hooves
mrs.kind: who is eve.ha.hooves?
BlaiseEbuth: Lel
Uljahn: eve and 7 smurfs
struct: only 4 accounts lol
struct: I have lost track
mrs.kind: on lost track on what?
struct: of how many accounts i have / had
mrs.kind: okay
BlaiseEbuth: We recognized you eve... I mean mrs.kind
mrs.kind: eh, i never did lie
mrs.kind: pureday said "eve.ha.hooves"
mrs.kind: so then i said "nope never heard oh eve/ha.hooves" i isnt lying
BlaiseEbuth: Oh really? :3
mrs.kind: yup
BlaiseEbuth: :grin:
mrs.kind: i know im gonna get banned by him soon enough
BlaiseEbuth: him ?
mrs.kind: yup.him
mrs.kind: the "him" hates me
struct: I dont even know how to ban
BlaiseEbuth: Yeah... That's why he banned eve right?
mrs.kind: not you, HIM
mrs.kind: and i help getting "drafted from coding"
mrs.kind: *ketp
Astrobytes: You again.
BlaiseEbuth: Hello him
mrs.kind: there is "him"
mrs.kind: fitting name if i say so myself
BlaiseEbuth: You could at least try to look like different when you create a new account eve...
BlaiseEbuth: * mrs.kind
mrs.kind: eh, i would be lying then
BlaiseEbuth: Friendly advice for your next one
IndecisionTree: I, for one, think the fake mustache and cheap sunglasses look *great* Mrs. Kind.
IndecisionTree: stick with it
mrs.kind: fine fine, im gonna code, i learned how to code AI
Astrobytes: So mrs.kind, would you like to be banned right now or later?
mrs.kind: use my name that i told you dude
struct: which name?
mrs.kind: not any of the usernames i had
BlaiseEbuth: Yeah, good advice! Next time take a screenshoot of a drawing of sunglasses and mustache eve!
mrs.kind: when i first came here i said "call me kayla"
Astrobytes: Funnily enough, no one was listening.
BlaiseEbuth: Eve said that, yes. So you admit you're eve?
mrs.kind: never said i was isnt
littlebear: * mrs kind
darkhorse64: can we talk about coding and games ? This convo is boring and pointless
Astrobytes: Banned again.
Astrobytes: I hate this damn chat sometimes.
BlaiseEbuth: reCurse stole darkhorse64's account! :scream:
Astrobytes: struct or whoever, if it comes back ban it. I'm off, cba with this crap right now tbh
darkhorse64: We hit ground zero too many times. Why BlaiseEbuth ?
struct: cya astro
mkkhell: how can i split a string in cpp
mkkhell: strok doesnt work in clash of code
mkkhell: also stoi doesnt work( string to integer)
BlaiseEbuth: streams
struct: stoi surely works
struct: have you include <string>?
struct: https://stackoverflow.com/a/14266139
darkhorse64: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/84802dbf-ef1d-444b-8543-3d8662b1b5fe
struct: darkhorse64 are you working on any multi atm?
darkhorse64: Not really. Just improving my codebase for C4 (trying to simplify my solver).
PatrickMcGinnisII: I can't seem to get over 47% on bulls and cows 2, any hints? yes I'm using a slow lang
PatrickMcGinnisII: i feel like I'm missing some branching factor math trick
darkhorse64: My solution is really a brute force one so C++ helps a lot
Marchete: why FB again, Illedan?
darkhorse64: I wonder if he slept tonight
struct: he won 3 games vs recurse o.o
littlebear: http://files.magusgeek.com/csb/csb_en.html in this article section 4 simulation
(between 0 and 200) should be 0 and 100 right ?
struct: darkhorse do you expand again if its a forced move?
RoboStac: littlebear - it goes to 200 in legend, 100 before that
littlebear: oh ok
mkkhell: @struct yeah but i cant do like a for loop and extract a string out of every index into stoi
mkkhell: ex "123"
for(...){
mkkhell: int t= stoi(ex[i])
mkkhell: ...
struct: yeah
mkkhell: how can i do so then?
struct: ex[i] - '0'
struct: I think
struct: ex[i] will be a char
mkkhell: didnt work
mkkhell: bro
mkkhell: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/e34b8dd1-10ce-4363-81bf-0bdb21870114
mkkhell: ^^^
struct: int t = ex[i] - '0';
struct: works
littlebear: yup
mkkhell: oh damn
mkkhell: thanks dude!!!
struct: stoi is to conver the string to int
struct: ex[i] is a char thats why it did not work
struct: np
mkkhell: yess okey
mkkhell: how about splitting a string
mkkhell: whenever there's a comma for example
struct: darkhorse showed
struct: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/84802dbf-ef1d-444b-8543-3d8662b1b5fe
struct: it returns a vector of strings
mkkhell: okey thanks all
mkkhell: yes
struct: bot looking good Illedan
darkhorse64: struct: it works on some bots but not all (maybe my fault)
darkhorse64: expanding forced moves
foxy_gir_halo: im back again
mkkhell: the string splitting function has this error
mkkhell: Implicit instantiation of undefined template 'std::__cxx11::basic_stringstream<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >'
/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/7.5.0/../../../../include/c++/7.5.0/iosfwd:108:11:
note: template is declared here
struct: how did you call the function?
mkkhell: didnt even call it
mkkhell: just put it above the int main
mkkhell: buffer has an error
struct: https://tech.io/snippet/N7bnqgx
struct: it compiles fine here
darkhorse64: #include <sstream>
mkkhell: darkhorse
mkkhell: thanks
mkkhell: that worked
mkkhell: <#
darkhorse64: It's my super secret bot code. Don't tell anyone !
AllYourTrees: too late i stole it already
mkkhell: hahahaha thanks dude
PatrickMcGinnisII: got 100% on bulls and cows 2... wow, I overcomplicated it to begin with.
MSmits: darkhorse64 I think I made mcts hashing work for yavalath now. a definite improvement
MSmits: I had it before but never saw much gain, but now it's pretty good
MSmits: the trick is when you insert, you check stored hashed result against the current turn's starting board and if the starting board contains hexes that are not in the stored spot, you can safely overwrite them. That way you dont need a large hash array
MSmits: so I store the child index and childcount of a parent node when i expand and then when i expand a new one, i check if i already have it and if so, use the same index/count
**MSmits ramble mode off
MSmits: this should work well for any mcts game with many transpositions and/or large branching
PatrickMcGinnisII: keep talking, something might stick...my 39th ain't so bad...considering
MSmits: ok, well I also added some pruning. In the very late game you have some filler moves that are equivalent or provably useless. I prune those
MSmits: reduces branching
MSmits: on forced moves I continue expanding
MSmits: no need to do a rollout
MSmits: in fact, i do this on any parent with 1 child.
MSmits: I don't store them in my hash table either
MSmits: those are mostly my new tricks
MSmits: altogether I solve 3-4 plies sooner on games that fill the board
MSmits: (around ply 41-42 on a game that goes to 61)
PatrickMcGinnisII: can you aply that to the powerball lottery, it's over $400M atm
PatrickMcGinnisII: pick a number from 1 to 26
PatrickMcGinnisII: anyone?
struct: 24
PatrickMcGinnisII: tx
struct: When will you submit MSmits?
MSmits: I might submit within a day or two a version with no book, just to test for bugs
MSmits: but it will probably be 6th or so.
MSmits: solving sooner and playing lategames better does not help WR much if you fall to traps in early game
MSmits: I also realized I can supervised-learn a NN for Yavalath
MSmits: the mcts goes quite deep and I can round unsolved nodes to wins/losses if they have enough visits
MSmits: the meta mcts i mean
MSmits: so I might try that as well, I was going to do this for oware also. Either way is a good test
MSmits: book + NN could be deadly combo... in theory.
struct: yeah
struct: but you would have to train the nn after the book move right?
struct: or do you still train from the start?
MSmits: hmm, that sounds more like an azero type training
MSmits: no i just mean a value training. I have a bunch of gamestates, i know they are wins, losses or draws and i just train the NN to output the right value
MSmits: it's just a plain list of states and values
struct: if you force it to output always that move isnt it a book?
MSmits: no, i dont force it to output a move
MSmits: i force it to output a value
struct: ah
MSmits: 1 = win, 0 = loss
MSmits: i try to make it output what my meta mcts and its solver come up with
MSmits: then in the bot i can use this output instead of a mcts rollout result
MSmits: it might be off somewhat, but it's a big old average anyways
MiyamuraIzumi: I just forget for somehow
MSmits: which is why you need enough rollouts still
MiyamuraIzumi: How can I print message to screen ?
MSmits: which language?
MiyamuraIzumi: C++
MSmits: error output or game output?
MSmits: game turn output
MiyamuraIzumi: game output
MiyamuraIzumi: game turn
MSmits: cout << "this is output" << endl
MSmits: with a ; at the end
MiyamuraIzumi: I mean the message that show on screen
MSmits: that's different for each game
MiyamuraIzumi: not the one that intruct the bot
BlaiseEbuth: cout << "instructions" << "msg" <<endl;
MSmits: well that wont work
MSmits: you need a space
MSmits: "instructionsmsg"
MSmits: but it's not fixed, it depends on the game, some games dont even have it
MSmits: you cant use messaging in oware for example
MiyamuraIzumi: I am trying on UTTT
MSmits: UTTT has it yeah, lemme check
struct: for uttt is just a space
MSmits: ah ok
struct: 3 3 hello
MiyamuraIzumi: I see thanks
MSmits: I always use the msg to output solved results
MSmits: win/loss/draw etc.
struct: I dont
struct: my bot is shy
MSmits: it's nice, people who are debugging their bot can test against mine to see if their solver is correct
MSmits: and also when mine has a bug, they can tell me :)
MiyamuraIzumi: well my bot lose quite some game, I need to see my score with those game
MSmits: yeah msg is fine for that
MSmits: I also like it to debug a sim
BlaiseEbuth: To sell cars too
MSmits: and to troll
MiyamuraIzumi: :D
BlaiseEbuth: And sing
MiyamuraIzumi: initially, the first msg I use is to print some dummy eval score
MiyamuraIzumi: at that time I also don't know any bot algorithm
MiyamuraIzumi: print as I know a lot :D
MSmits: I recommend learning minimax. It's easy to understand and not much code
MiyamuraIzumi: I am still mess up with MCTS solver
struct: can be tricky
MSmits: Are you 100% sure your bot plays perfectly without it?
struct: and the code that is in the paper doesnt help
MSmits: if you already have bugs, adding a solver is going to make things really hard
MiyamuraIzumi: how to sure with MCTS?
MiyamuraIzumi: it works good
MiyamuraIzumi: that's my point
MSmits: it's a legend bot?
MiyamuraIzumi: yes
struct: this is my solver
MSmits: ah ok, then it's probably fine yeah
struct: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/429f3714-dc0d-4e6e-8623-58b30bb7758b
MiyamuraIzumi: thanks
MSmits: mmh that can be optimized a bit struct
MiyamuraIzumi: the point is, I optimize my bot a lot, then when adding solver I have to modify it
MiyamuraIzumi: but I don't understand solver much
MSmits: but it's more important that it works, in MiyamuraIzumi's case
MiyamuraIzumi: so I mess up
MSmits: what part do you find hard to understand?
struct: yeah msmits i can probably exit early if child status = 0
MSmits: also you dont really need to count
MSmits: you can just keep the best status
MSmits: and negate it for the parent
struct: hmm
MSmits: well that is, if you have a 0 symmetric status, you would have to do 2-status or something
struct: maybe ill get 4M rollouts
struct: :p
MSmits: nah, this is not a bottleneck
struct: I know
MiyamuraIzumi: As I understand, If I found a leaf node with direct win/lose/draw this node is solved, then I check with following:
MiyamuraIzumi: if the node is win => it's parent is lose
MSmits: correct
BlaiseEbuth: Make children...
MiyamuraIzumi: if the node is lose/draw => I check all of the siblings, if all of them are lose/draw => parent is lose/draw - else propagate normally
struct: yes
MSmits: if 1 is draw and all others are loss, parent is draw
struct: ^
MiyamuraIzumi: yes, I do like that
MSmits: only if all are loss, parent is win
MSmits: if a single node is unsolved, you stop solving
MSmits: except of course when the newly solved child is a win, then the others dont matter
MiyamuraIzumi: newly solved child is a win
MSmits: well that counts for every step in the solving, wins and losses will alternate, assuming there is no draw
MSmits: so any situation where a child is a win, you can immedately make parent a loss
MiyamuraIzumi: I think my solver is correct for this
MSmits: then the problem might be in the calling of the function
MSmits: when you use it
MiyamuraIzumi: in back propagation
MSmits: I don't do that
MSmits: that's a separate step for me
MSmits: completely unrelated
MSmits: in most bots i either back prop win/loss stats or i do the solver thing
MSmits: but sometimes i do both, but then i still prefer doing it separately
MSmits: this method of using the solver until it stops and then building the backprop on top of that is very messy and bug-prone
MiyamuraIzumi: I see
MiyamuraIzumi: assume that the part of propation is correct
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/3d6ecf08-56dc-4831-a2d4-5e65a2048254
MiyamuraIzumi: for checking a node directly win/lose
MSmits: thats my backprop for yavalath
MSmits: normal stats backprop, no solver
MSmits: this is solver:
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/7b0f58c2-a1e8-476c-a91c-6fbbbe73e4f0
MSmits: neither function is calling the other
MiyamuraIzumi: actually, I use UCT
MSmits: how do you mean?
MSmits: I mean I use UCT too, but not for backprop or solving
MiyamuraIzumi: and for some reason, I compute the "mean" value and upper bound and store on the node
struct: MiyamuraIzumi you should benchmark your code
struct: to find the bottleneck
MSmits: I don't store much on the node
MSmits: node:
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/73226b46-e5bf-4f52-b485-e5ddd14ac9ab
MSmits: that's Yavalath, but uttt is similar
MiyamuraIzumi: well, so I have to change much
MSmits: small nodes are beneficial. I mean it's a tradeoff, sometimes it's good to save more of the gamestate on the node, so you dont have to recalc during selection
MSmits: don't let us tell you what to do. Just try small things and gradually change how you do things as you learn
MiyamuraIzumi: yes, I do it to avoid recalculate
MSmits: we're just showing you alternative ways to do things. Some we havent benchmarked properly. Well except struct, but he's special
MiyamuraIzumi: thank you, I will try with this new way
struct: math operations are fast
struct: I would not trade some bytes for few math operations
MSmits: yeah it depends on how many math ops
MSmits: especially if an applied sim move contains loops and conditions
MiyamuraIzumi: I think the log and sqrt are slow
MiyamuraIzumi: so that's why I store them
MSmits: the log is negligible
MSmits: it only is used for the parent
MSmits: so you calc it once and pass it to each child
struct: But you store them each individually?
struct: I know some people store the uct
MiyamuraIzumi: yes
struct: but storing log sqrt and other stuff
struct: is very expensive
MSmits: mostly because it takes up memory and that loses you cache efficiency
MiyamuraIzumi: my node worth 42 bytes each
MSmits: my nodes are usually 16 to 24
MSmits: sometimes a little higher
MSmits: with small nodes you also stand a better chance to reuse more of your tree
MiyamuraIzumi: well, so I do a lot of wrong thing
struct: its not "wrong"
MSmits: I wouldnt say wrong. There is little stuff you can do to improve.
struct: my first mcts was also wrong
MSmits: pretty sure if i show my code to struct, he will see problems and i will see problems with his
MSmits: every mcts i ever did was "wrong" to some extent. I hope they got less wrong over time :)
struct: maybe he does expansion like i used to do
struct: for every move i make i would expand
MSmits: thats a common mistake
MSmits: but i dont think he does that
MiyamuraIzumi: another thing
MiyamuraIzumi: I declare a global array of 1'000'000 node
MiyamuraIzumi: then reuse this array
MiyamuraIzumi: is this correct way of pre allocate at the startup time?
struct: I do
MiyamuraIzumi: thank you all, I will try another way
struct: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/e82a60ab-26ef-4582-bb85-5a6c77bb528e
MSmits: yeah, but 1 million is very few
MiyamuraIzumi: it is still 42Mbytes
struct: well if have access to 768
struct: on uttt 1M wont be enough for first turn
struct: you have access*
MiyamuraIzumi: should I pre allocate more?
struct: if you need space
struct: I reserve 45M just to be safe
MiyamuraIzumi: MEMORY_PTR = (MEMORY_PTR + 1) % OBJ_SIZE;
return &MEMORY[MEMORY_PTR];
MiyamuraIzumi: I do something like this
struct: whats that?
MiyamuraIzumi: I preallocate 1000'000 nodes
struct: ah with the way i posted above you dont need any of that
MiyamuraIzumi: then if the node more than 1000'000 -> I modulo to go back to node 0
BlaiseEbuth: So much space. Need to see it all. OO
BlaiseEbuth: What's your favorite thing about space? Mine is space.
BlaiseEbuth: Space...
BlaiseEbuth: Ba! Ba! Ba ba ba! Space!
BlaiseEbuth: I love space.
MSmits: preallocation:
MSmits: const int NODE_MAX = 25000000;
MSmits: Node nodes[NODE_MAX];
MSmits: that's it
MSmits: wont fit that many with a large node, but 10 million should be fine
BlaiseEbuth: Come here, space. I have a secret for you. No, come closer.
MSmits: when did BlaiseEbuth last get reset? Someone forget to do it?
BlaiseEbuth: Look, an eclipse! No. Don't look.
Wontonimo: How's the solver going MiyamuraIzumi ?
MiyamuraIzumi: well ...
MiyamuraIzumi: not so good
Wontonimo: oh
Wontonimo: you were 80th yesterday, not 100'ish
MiyamuraIzumi: :D
ashwin_h26: sup
struct: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
waffles: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
UncertainLeo: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
IndecisionTree: ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)
ZarthaxX: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
JustinZhang: how could you guy write that
JustinZhang: I want to write that too
thienphuc-dev: "/slap"
thienphuc-dev: :v
**thienphuc-dev slaps around a bit with a large fishbot
thienphuc-dev: ah no
thienphuc-dev: sorry
thienphuc-dev: "/flip"
thienphuc-dev: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
thienphuc-dev: =)) nice
struct: hi ZarthaxX
struct: long time no seen
ZarthaxX: i have been busy with uni
ZarthaxX: and personal problems
struct: :/
ZarthaxX: i wont be able to be here until end of semester tbh haha
struct: sorry to hear that
ZarthaxX: yeah, pretty traumatic
ZarthaxX: last week was horrible
struct: feel free to message me if you need
ZarthaxX: i can tell you
ZarthaxX: it's already over tho
ZarthaxX: i will pm you on discord a bit
struct: ok
ZarthaxX: gotta continue studying later for a final exam
Wontonimo: :wave: ZarthaxX good to see you. Good luck with uni and stuff
ZarthaxX: hey wontoo
ZarthaxX: thankkkkss
ZarthaxX: <3
ZarthaxX: this game theory subject allows us to do some final presentation with algorithms
ZarthaxX: guy says we could talk about alphazero
ZarthaxX: pity i cant talk about that thing lmao
Wontonimo: MCTS is(was?) a huge part of alphazero. The UCB calculation is pretty impressive in combining weak classifiers in a tree (random rollout being the weakest)
ZarthaxX: okey
ZarthaxX: maybe i could try reading about it for some presentation but seems impossible for december
ZarthaxX: haha
Wontonimo: you've used MCTS right?
ZarthaxX: yeah, have done bots with that
ZarthaxX: working bots lmao
Wontonimo: that's all i'm suggesting. a focus on UCT, the UCB formula, and that many things can be put in for the eval, like a random rollout or a NN
ZarthaxX: but i have to do a NN
ZarthaxX: :(
Wontonimo: oh
ZarthaxX: never done those
ZarthaxX: i mean, isnt it the thing?
Wontonimo: no
ZarthaxX: anyway, prob i can find any other topic
ZarthaxX: maybe some paper about mcts solver
Wontonimo: i say that and my job is nn
ZarthaxX: thing is to talk about a paper
Wontonimo: ah
ZarthaxX: but i find it cool to talk about a paper and implement stuff
ZarthaxX: or a chapter form this book
ZarthaxX: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~sandholm/cs15-892F13/algorithmic-game-theory.pdf
ZarthaxX: haha
Wontonimo: nice paper
Wontonimo: book
Wontonimo: don't get me wrong, NN is awesome. I'm not discounting it. I do love it. But it has it's place and often a classic machine learning algorithm fits the problem very nicely
ZarthaxX: wdym by this? " a classic machine learning algorithm fits the problem very nicely"
Wontonimo: a classic machine learning algorithm is something like auto-clustering, or K-means, or support vectors. They can solve a ton of problems without getting into NNs
dolphin0509: bruh
EEgmoney: .
EEgmoney: .
EEgmoney: .
UmutTaskan: ezzzzzzzzzzz
JustinZhang: could you tell me how to fix the CBS.log
JustinZhang: *anyone
Taka-Li: hey guys, I am trying to create a puzzle of "clash of code", what is the validator, what can I input in the validator?
gigabuffoon: good morning!
