Chat:World/2021-08-13

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Default avatar.png holite: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/191342052dba9c37b44d155a052bac135560c9f

xxd: reported

xxd: kidding

Default avatar.png dmin: is it possible for someone to look at my current clash solution afterwards?

Default avatar.png dmin: I couldnt find a solution in the allotted 15 mins. It's in java

michaellan: what language

Default avatar.png dmin: java

michaellan: ah my bad didnt see ur comment

Default avatar.png dmin: all good it was kinda hidden

xxd: try sending a link to the clash

Default avatar.png dmin: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/report/1913415bbb890e6514378364f6b873ab081421e

xxd: cant see code, oops

Default avatar.png dmin: i really tried to brute it

xxd: whats the problem statement

Default avatar.png dmin: take a string like "1+3+2" and return it as "1+2+3"

xxd: i.e., sort the numbers in between the + signs?

Default avatar.png dmin: correct

xxd: put your code on a pastebin and PM it to me

maazshakeel: Hi

Default avatar.png dmin: heya

Default avatar.png holite: guys can you joint his clash and help me

Default avatar.png holite: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/191343434c1616596a927c7894d387b27fc1454

xxd: dude

xxd: you cant join after its started

xxd: and its annoying for you to send these links

Default avatar.png holite: YEP SORRY

Default avatar.png holite: really sory not anymore links

Default avatar.png holite: an last link https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/191343930e92ac787b54a336ff72cbeebaa28d5

Default avatar.png holite: .pls join fast

Default avatar.png holite: fsst

Default avatar.png holite: fast

Default avatar.png holite: fast

Default avatar.png holite: fst

Default avatar.png holite: ]

Default avatar.png holite: {pls fast}

xxd: dude

**juice0 slaps holite around a bit with a large fishbot

Default avatar.png holite: huh??

xxd: i'm gonna join this clash to spite you

juice0: finish him

Default avatar.png holite: oh my god sorry

Default avatar.png holite: really sory

Default avatar.png holite: :(\

Default avatar.png holite: \\\\////

xxd: i'm 22nd global ATM

xxd: :D

Default avatar.png holite: can you solve this xxd?

xxd: of course, i already have the solution and am trying other languages to make it shorter

Default avatar.png holite: can you pls share with me

J[]HN_WICK: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/19134412d58995cdce16aedc15379b8c0d96a31

xxd: of course not

xxd: oh my LORD

xxd: please stop

Default avatar.png holite: ok sorry

Default avatar.png holite: hey stop i realize my mistake opls do not send clash link

Default avatar.png holite: and xxd they why have you nt submitted it

Default avatar.png holite: even i have the solution

xxd: because its shortest mode you doofus

xxd: holite is harassing me in DMs

Westicles: That's what you get for talking to plebs

xxd: sorry westicles :pensive:

xxd: that was a garbage problem, bad validators

juice0: that was not the thrashing i'd hoped for. oh well, at least the troll couldn't have done any worse.

xxd: that was an anomaly in my performance, trust me

xxd: there were literally no constraint details in the problem statement

juice0: i believe you

xxd: cant believe i got trolled from some guy who "have contacts with best coders i have not ime to speak with you imediatley comman dto realsize me or un ban me"

J[]HN_WICK: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/1913462e54624728ed6c2dfcf4b50f777dd6e93

xxd: no

xxd: no god please no

juice0: lol

xxd: J[]HN_WICK is this guy's alt

xxd: wait wtf

xxd: this guy is giving me bad luck

xxd: clash is for donks anyway

juice0: yep quit donking around. how's the progress on top 2% in bot programming?

xxd: got that one

juice0: oh nice congrats!

xxd: thanks!

xxd: yeah so im just working on optimization now

juice0: that might be my next one once i finish that top 2% one

xxd: awesome, good luck on it!

xxd: which games do you have your eye on

juice0: redoing ghost in the cell tonight and hope that pushes me over. just reached gold in legends of code and magic earlier today

juice0: did that and gold in ultimate tic tac toe. tried hypersonic but got a little overwhelmed and didn't get back into it

xxd: congrats on LoCAM

xxd: thats a real chonker of a game

xxd: UTTT is a fun one, I learned MCTS doing it

Default avatar.png rqwerqwe: guys what is 9223372036854775807 % 4? ddg's calc is saying its 0, but when I print the value I get 3

xxd: cant say im familiar with the others, but hope you have fun :)

xxd: you can just look at the last two digits to determine mod 4 residue

xxd: so you're right

juice0: thank you. yeah i should have read what worked for others in uTTT. i would've attempted a monte carlo too. but i was deep into doing it another way and just got lucky it kept working

xxd: ah, haha

xxd: "local optimum" innit

xxd: i'm gonna ditch my current greedy strategy in CvZ for monte carlo

xxd: All hail MC!

juice0: that's right. when you've got a new hammer, everything looks like a nail

xxd: including @holite

xxd: just kidding ;)

juice0: haha well he was responding to the hammer

xxd: :banhammer:

xxd: is there a quest path on the right part of the quest "board"? or is that just empty space

juice0: the clash and contribution tracks are on the righthand side for me

juice0: based on how i remember it, i should say

xxd: yeah, there's a column of empty squares to the right of it, though

xxd: it sorta forms a nice path going upward and to the left at the top

xxd: it would be a shame for there not to be another quest path :smirk:

juice0: it could be designed with a later addition there in mind

Default avatar.png rqwerqwe: how can I get harder clash of code problems when doing private matches with friends

xxd: CoC problems have no difficulty ranking

xxd: as a result, there is no such concept as filtering problems by difficulty

LittleFlea: ^this is true

LittleFlea: and you get paired with master

Default avatar.png rqwerqwe: thats dumb ngl

xxd: yeah but its like elo sorta

xxd: so the master loses a ton of rating if he loses to u but u dont lose much against him

M0narchicalMush: I have zero clue as to what im doing :/

xxd: same here, man, same here

M0narchicalMush: just threw me in as if i had any standing..

M0narchicalMush: betraal

M0narchicalMush: betrayal*

juice0: it's too bad i'm not in the mood to clash right now. i smell blood in the water!

M0narchicalMush: How do we get more insight onto what to do before it throws us into the pool?

xxd: are you referring to clash?

xxd: clash of code*

M0narchicalMush: just in general

M0narchicalMush: I felt like i had no preperation at all

xxd: i generally dont recommend this site to others as a way to learn how to code

xxd: like you should know how to code before coming onto here

M0narchicalMush: Still, just asked me to copy and paste shit (which i didnt, i hand typed) how is that helping anyone?

xxd: ?

xxd: where

M0narchicalMush: tutorial

juice0: i don't even remember the tutorial

michaellan: yeah, sorry, neither do i

michaellan: i might create an alt sometime just to test my TTT MCTS on the Wood league of UTTT

michaellan: but i can sorta expect the results already

juice0: hm i might be back a little later tonight. ciao for now

michaellan: 再见

michaellan: good night, to whoever sees this

ProCoder03: does MC count as reinforcement value ??

ProCoder03: *AI

ProCoder03: :sweat_smile:

Default avatar.png Takibi: hi

Default avatar.png Takibi: im new

Default avatar.png Takibi: need tutor hahahaha

ProCoder03: hi takibi , feel free to can ask here !!

Default avatar.png Takibi: hahahaha thank you

Default avatar.png Takibi: should we add first?


ProCoder03: add what ??

Default avatar.png Takibi: add friend

ProCoder03: not needed

Default avatar.png Takibi: ouhh okey

Default avatar.png Takibi: im learning python

Default avatar.png Takibi: but not understand anything

Default avatar.png Takibi: hahahaha

ProCoder03: Ohhh.. try learnpython.org

Default avatar.png Takibi: okey thank you soo much

-Gamma-: ot this

-Gamma-: or*

-Gamma-: http://bedford-computing.co.uk/learning/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Python-Cookbook-3rd-Edition.pdf

derjack: oh my

Default avatar.png real_coder: potatoes are great

Default avatar.png phsads: agree

derjack: :upside_down:

-Gamma-: only potato chips

derjack: fries, baked, mashed, vodka...

derjack: happy 13th friday

BlaiseEbuth: :imp:

derjack: hmm https://arxiv.org/abs/2108.02547

derjack: alternative to pie rule for chess? :thinking:

Uljahn: they should also add stealing moves then :upside_down:

Default avatar.png carlo007: byskkl

Default avatar.png carlo007: bysrkl

Default avatar.png Bips: i love potatoes

GoogleJeff: all potatoes?

Default avatar.png Bips: HELL YES

GoogleJeff: that's a lot of potatoes

Default avatar.png Bips: just the way i like it

BlaiseEbuth: Your life is potatoes?

GoogleJeff: what's your opinion on po-tah-toes

Default avatar.png Bips: amazing

BlaiseEbuth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiqqC_fbP1c

oxydowe: some people have A LOT of po-tattoos

Default avatar.png Bips: i have never been this inspired before

Default avatar.png Bips: thank you

oxydowe: ur welcome

GoogleJeff: KeeN: please share your code for https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/report/1913955a0896b6479e093a8222eebf247b9c1e6

KiwiTae: Google send yours!

KeeN: GoogleJeff -> nothing special there - you are welcome)

GoogleJeff: thanks!

GoogleJeff: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/8e2ec7df-3d1a-4cd8-9fdc-19a44bd1879c

KeeN: yeah, I saw that

KeeN: )

Default avatar.png MuaKuZ: normally there is always a fragment of pseudocode on the left. I have nothing there. am new and if I have forgotten something or it is due to the settings please let me know .. thank you

ProCoder03: Nahh... Its only there in few puzzles for beginners to start with

Default avatar.png MuaKuZ: i strated with coders strike back -same time as a friend of mine- he has the pseudo code but i havent it ...

Default avatar.png MuaKuZ: started

ProCoder03: Wait!! Thats ain't possible

Default avatar.png MuaKuZ: we both started with the first lesson in coders strike back -he has the pseudocode straight under the simulation but not me... we were in ms teams and we both searched for it ...

KiwiTae: there is a reset button on the ide

ProCoder03: Wood I in CSB doesn't have psuedocode afaik

ProCoder03: The hint comes kinda like a pop up like onboarding iirc

derjack: oO

ProCoder03: ??

ProCoder03: any clues how to do ASCII arts ??

ProCoder03: plz

ProCoder03: nah... just found the hints Thanks BTW

derjack: !

Default avatar.png MuaKuZ: it was told me code is under the simulation in the scroll area and not in a pop up....but thanks for help perhaps a rooki fail or something like that

Default avatar.png MuaKuZ: of me

Default avatar.png MuaKuZ: not code i mean a piece of pseudo code

ProCoder03: pseudocode under the game windows comes only in wood II

Default avatar.png MuaKuZ: we had both the same game open and it was csb

ProCoder03: csb is a league based game !!!

ProCoder03: you have Wood 3 to 1 , bronze ,....

Default avatar.png dmin: how do u beat wood1

Default avatar.png dmin: rank 1st?

martinpapa69: you need to use mathematics

Default avatar.png dmin: gotcha

Hunter64TheOneCodinGame: hello hello

Default avatar.png dmin: but you need to reach 1st on the overall leaderboards, right?

martinpapa69: on the left side you only see your leagues leaderboard. once you get to the top, you get promoted to the next league

Default avatar.png dmin: gotcha!

martinpapa69: unless you are in legend league

derjack: if he were, i doubt he would be asking that :v

Wontonimo: hey dmin, try changing your targeting

Wontonimo: instead of targeting the checkpoint,

Wontonimo: target the checkpoint minus your velocity

Wontonimo: velocity = position - previous position

derjack: wontonimk

BlaiseEbuth: Wontonimod

martinpapa69: 3veltonimo

Wontonimo: what the heck?

martinpapa69: whatthehecktonimo

Wontonimo: should i stop?

Wontonimo: this doesn't feel friendly tbh

derjack: its alright

reCurse: Unfortunately often in this chat

BlaiseEbuth: Yeah... Sad... :(

derjack: hm?

BlaiseEbuth: Bad people are bad derjack :(

derjack: :rage:

derjack: Wontonimo dont stop. anything that can keep people from clashes is good

Uljahn: MK was notorious for pushing csb and -3vel too much hence that memeing, nothing to be upset about

eulerscheZahl: can explaining the -3v via teamviewer

Default avatar.png Tuan2k8: Hello

michaellan: who's MK?

eulerscheZahl: MadKnight

eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/profile/b50b600f5dc25555f35bd2da9a0cf8a07356021

eulerscheZahl: not the other one that pops up when you enter his nick in the search bar

xxd: gotcha

xxd: -3vel is overpowered

xxd: at least from what i've observed, it makes it so that you sorta lightly "brush" each checkpoint instead of going straight through the center of it

michaellan: and i also find boosting near the start is helpful, since my bot doesntt want collisions

michaellan: clarification question: for CvZ, when a zombie is killed, is it scored based off how many humans are alive *in that moment* or *at the end of the game*?

eulerscheZahl: that moment

michaellan: cool, that makes things way easier. thanks

MiyamuraIzumi: do we have anyone that achieve all legend medal?

MiyamuraIzumi: *ACHIEVEMENTS

ProCoder03: For that , we need one fellow who is literally proficient in all languages supported by CG

BlaiseEbuth: No.

xxd: that shouldn't be too bad ProCoder03, you can solve the same easy puzzles in many languages

BlaiseEbuth: But you can't create a contest anymore \o/

xxd: what??

jacek: oO

michaellan: for CvZ can you do any better than n=100 zombies * n=100 humans when calculating zombie moves?

michaellan: its a lot of computation i think

MiyamuraIzumi: in cVz can you do better than me?

xxd: probably not :)

xxd: i'm still writing mine out

michaellan: MiyamuraIzumi what type of approach are you using for CvZ?

MiyamuraIzumi: Monte Carlo

michaellan: ah, same. maybe i'll finish by today and i'll tell you how mine does

MiyamuraIzumi: nice :)

michaellan: are you using eldidou's strategy by chance?

MiyamuraIzumi: I just remember I've use strategy of an article in discussion

MiyamuraIzumi: it's been too long that I don't remember the Author

michaellan: that is probably the one, yeah

michaellan: cool

Default avatar.png Shivay: @Driikolu i want to get advice from you

michaellan: um... can someone clarify the fibonacci multiplier for CvZ? Letting h = number of humans stiill alive, if I kill 1 zombie I get h*h*10, but if I kill two I get 3*h*h*10 + 5*h*h*10?

michaellan: because it says the (n+2)th fibonacci number and the sequence in the problem statement starts at 1,2,3,5...

michaellan: i am wondering if that sequence already accounts for the n+2, in which case 2 zombies would give 1*h*h*10 + 2*h*h*10

michaellan: okay its definitely the latter

Default avatar.png Shivay: anyone say where can use html javascript

Scarfield: xxd, the fibonacci seq. starts (0,1,1,2,3,5,..) so the (1,2,3,5,8,..) already accounts for n+2. each zombie killed in the same turn, will get its own multiplier, the 1st zombie: x1, 2nd zombie: x2, 4th zombie x5, and so on

xxd: thanks

xxd: I don't think i'm doing MC correctly...

martinpapa69: i dont think pure mc will give good result there. you need to combine with heristics

xxd: awwww

jacek: like nn

xxd: bruh -_-

Scarfield: i used GA for CvZ, but i dont know what approach is better, i just wanted to try it

martinpapa69: if you read the winners postmortem youll see you can get good results with very simple algo

xxd: is the winner's postmortem not an MC?

xxd: i am trying to replicate it

martinpapa69: mc with heuristics

Scarfield: the current top players got the validators, locally optimised for them, and hardcoded their submissions afaik

eulerscheZahl: https://github.com/dbdr/codingame-validators/blob/master/cvz.txt

martinpapa69: wow

eulerscheZahl: mine is still online. couldn't do offline as my sim has some off by one errors

eulerscheZahl: and i didn't bother

Scarfield: lol, also for code of the ring xD i need to go back and try that again some time, looked interesting when i saw, but had no idea of how to approach it then

Scarfield: still dont now that i think of it

eulerscheZahl: i do beam search

eulerscheZahl: offline

xxd: what does online/offline mean eulerscheZahl?

eulerscheZahl: offline = you play the optim on your own computer and hardcode a sequence of moves

xxd: ah i see

eulerscheZahl: i ran my search for maybe 10 minutes on some of the code of the rings validators

TobiasA: big brain stuff yea?:nerd:

eulerscheZahl: no, compensating for small brain with more CPU power

TobiasA: you need big brain to accomplish that

TobiasA: how contradictive:triumph:

Default avatar.png sadboy69: SMOL COCC HUGE NUTZ

xxd: mods

Astrobytes: he's kicked, don't worry

xxd: ah ok

xxd: forget that removing messages isnt a feature of (base) XMPP

Astrobytes: Yeah, we're stuck with that lack of functionality unfortunately.

jacek: :(

jacek: then you must act appropriately at all times

jacek: no margin for error

michaellan: no trolling

jacek: :rage:

michaellan: :)

martinpapa69: :cop_tone1:

eulerscheZahl: :frog:

Wontonimo: :spy:

BlaiseEbuth: :imp:

jacek: c-c-c-combo breaker

jacek: :3

BlaiseEbuth: mods ? Kick that troll

eulerscheZahl: oh, your badge is gone again

jacek: mods? kick that man who puts space before question mark

eulerscheZahl: that's a french thing

martinpapa69: unacceptable .

eulerscheZahl: most of them also write "exemple"

BlaiseEbuth: Will see what happen after the chat crash of this week end...

jacek: after friday patches?

Wontonimo: why does your mod badge goes away so often Blaise?

Wontonimo: *go

BlaiseEbuth: Goes Tibo and the XMPP server don't agree about my mod status.

BlaiseEbuth: *cause

BlaiseEbuth: I'm tired... -_-

michaellan: so is blaise a mod or not...

Uljahn: not anymore

BlaiseEbuth: No.

BlaiseEbuth: But the server disagree

Uljahn: so the mod status actually doesn't go away, it returns back due to the chat reboot

michaellan: why cant they just fix it so the chat reboot doesnt give him mod again

michaellan: also, is the thing where the chat breaks a weekly occurrence?

eulerscheZahl: it's a random occurence

jacek: once a mod, always a mod. you cant escape destiny

BlaiseEbuth: Wowowo, they will not totally remake their entire system, that bug since years btw, just to avoid the chat to set me back mod... :rofl:

xxd: :rage:

BlaiseEbuth: What is it again? Ah right "That's not the priority" :smirk:

xxd: the priority is making more escape rooms :rolling_eyes:

BlaiseEbuth: Right.

eulerscheZahl: there are also other moderation-like statuses that everyone can achieve. reach level 29 and you can edit all community puzzles

**eulerscheZahl still can't edit faulty clashes

xxd: D:

BlaiseEbuth: "We are conscient that the moderation system is far as perfect, but that's NOT THE PRIORITY"

Astrobytes: I can't either. And I refuse to play enough clashes that I can.

xxd: well if you desire any edits, I got you

eulerscheZahl: "is far as perfect"? do you mean far from perfect?

xxd: I am a clashing degenerate

xxd: (reformed)

eulerscheZahl: not currently. sometimes users pop up in chat and report problems with a certain puzzle or clash

BlaiseEbuth: I probably meant that, yes.

xxd: I see, that makes sense

eulerscheZahl: and i'm like "yeah i see the problem. maybe someone else can fix it"

xxd: so you basically go to its contribution page and edit it there right?

eulerscheZahl: yes

xxd: is there an easy way to go from the clash to the contribution page?

eulerscheZahl: no

BlaiseEbuth: "Not the priority"

xxd: well thats probably for the better

eulerscheZahl: maybe i don't know can you repeat the question

Astrobytes: :D

eulerscheZahl: Astrobytes knows the TV show :)

Astrobytes: Malcolm in the Middle?

eulerscheZahl: yes

Astrobytes: Yeah I remember it

eulerscheZahl: i've seen all episodes as a kid. and then again as an adult

Astrobytes: I haven't rewatched it at all, it was pretty good

jacek: mitm?

eulerscheZahl: man in the middle?

jacek: :scream:

BlaiseEbuth: o//\o/\\o

eulerscheZahl: malcolm aired on Pro7 here in Germany. Replaced Sabrina iirc

Astrobytes: I liked Sabrina too lol

eulerscheZahl: same

eulerscheZahl: my favorite character as a kid was Salem

Astrobytes: haha right!

BlaiseEbuth: :smile_cat:

jacek: oh new multiplayer game eh https://www.codingame.com/contribute/view/6870921d7302d6decba319f66b7716afddb3

jacek: also let me find a meme http://cdn-webimages.wimages.net/04f934f47463f77267118facfe178fb6222d6e-wm.jpg?v=3

Swyfti: nice meme

eulerscheZahl: i just watched a boss vs boss game in the space shooter. I like how the explosion starts at (0/0) and then the effect moves to where it should be

eulerscheZahl: that happens when you forget to commit the entity state location at t=0

Swyfti: ghostbusting

Swyfti: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/575541730

TobiasA: the new multiplayer game looks lit

Alfredb: what is the new multiplayer game? Can you link?

eulerscheZahl: do you mean the pending contribution?

eulerscheZahl: was linked 30min ago

Alfredb: oh I see it above

R8T3D: is there a way to do a certain clash of code challenge any time?

Katespizer: community -> contributions at the top

eulerscheZahl: https://eulerschezahl.herokuapp.com/codingame/puzzles/ search for the clash

xxd: i have no clue how to visualize a CvZ game for debugging :(

xxd: locally*

martinpapa69: what language

xxd: C++

reCurse: Yeah those games are toughest to debug

eulerscheZahl: https://imgur.com/a/kE918FW (that's mars lander)

eulerscheZahl: you could generate SVG images. the syntax is pretty simple

eulerscheZahl: and then use something like imagemagick to make a full animated gif if you see need

xxd: wow, that sounds interesting

eulerscheZahl: i should figure out how to add the marslander crash sound to that gif :P

martinpapa69: there is a good c++ lib for simple 2d visualizer. forgo the name tho

reCurse: In the same spirit you can just write html files, that gives you more options if you're comfortable with web techs

reCurse: It's work though

Swyfti: ai legend level?

Swyfti: no way i am going to get it

eulerscheZahl: i used the standard C# way (System.Drawing library)

martinpapa69: ahh its sfml. but ye drawing bitmaps frame by frame might be easier

BlaiseEbuth: sfml

reCurse: I would definitely not recommend going that route personally

reCurse: Even more work

BlaiseEbuth: I agree

eulerscheZahl: drawing a png is 20-30 lines of code if you just want something basic. and some #if DEBUG since CG switched to .net core and forgot to include System.Drawing.Common :/

martinpapa69: he uses c++. he cant just bitmap.draw(new circle())

reCurse: The bottom line is as long as you dump enough information in a text file, you can use pretty much anything ever made

reCurse: So have fun

xxd: rip

eulerscheZahl: using(Graphics g = Graphics.FromImage(byBitmap)) { g.FillEllipse(...)

Swyfti: is this for c#

eulerscheZahl: yes

Swyfti: omg

reCurse: That API can be notoriously slow btw

reCurse: Not that there's much better for c#

Swyfti: i love c# as a language, because i create games in unity

eulerscheZahl: i know. that's a true annoyance

reCurse: Using javascript canvas might actually be the easiest, as much as I dislike saying that

jacek: :scream:

xxd: oh thats good idea

eulerscheZahl: no pixi?

reCurse: Wayyyy overkill

eulerscheZahl: just kidding

eulerscheZahl: did pixi once for the interactive number shifting version (just wanted to try it)

eulerscheZahl: some overhead, not that much fun to code for me

xxd: i dont even have 16000 pixels by 9000 pixels -_-

reCurse: *cough*scaling

eulerscheZahl: and frying my GPU even when there is just a static image to show

reCurse: That doesn't sound right

eulerscheZahl: https://eulerschezahl.github.io/NumberShifting.html test it

BlaiseEbuth: If you scale enough you can even represent the map in a console with ascii char. ^^

reCurse: I can't my gpu is in rather high load atm

martinpapa69: you can visualse the whole map in a pixel

xxd: peak efficiency

jacek: gpu used for chess i presume

reCurse: Correct

jacek: :+1:

Astrobytes: Bit late but the OLC Pixel Game Engine is handy for visuals (one header file, easy AF to set up)

xxd: this is too overwhelming for me for now :(

xxd: just wanted to visualize some dots going around on a rectangle :rage:

Astrobytes: Try the one I suggested, guaranteed drawing things in minutes

reCurse: Or else?

eulerscheZahl: account delete

Astrobytes: Or else... drawing nothing. In minutes.

reCurse: That's not how guarantees work

Astrobytes: :(

withab: after coders strike back, what is the simpliest bot fight ?

reCurse: You're implying coders strike back is among the simplest?

eulerscheZahl: as CSB isn't the simplest (in my opinion): do you ask for the easiest overall of the next harder one?

withab: the easiest

ViviCode: my quest map suggested Ghost in the Cell as an introduction to bot fights

eulerscheZahl: rule-wise this is really simple: https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming/connect-4

eulerscheZahl: still not easy to reach the top

withab: thanks

withab: i'll see

xxd: i liked UTTT

xxd: going from TTT -> UTTT was a smooth transition for me and allowed me to take it a step at a time

xxd: (ultimate tic tac toe)

reCurse: I wish that was a bannable offense

Thyl: Hi !

AllYourTrees: how's the progress on ultimate C4 coming along?

TobiasA: you can't be serious

xxd: reCurse: what?

reCurse: Joking

xxd: oops must have flown over my head

Astrobytes: xxd: reCurse *really* doesn't like UTTT

xxd: ah

xxd: too boring? or...

TobiasA: i just got promoted to bronze in uttt

TobiasA: now i feel like procrastinating

xxd: I just don't get how getting 40k on CvZ is only bronze

xxd: it feels quite difficult to me

TobiasA: facts

TobiasA: it should have been legend

xxd: -_-

martinpapa69: wow even optims have leagues now ?

xxd: no i meant the bronze certification, sorry

Astrobytes: Don't worry about that stuff

MSmits: man, those sideeffects are no joke

MSmits: got my 2nd shot yesterday

MSmits: a bit late, wife and daughter had it 2 weeks earlier

Astrobytes: I had to reschedule mine due to er, having it

MSmits: did you have a 1st shot?

Astrobytes: Yeah

MSmits: they're not sure if it's worth getting a 2nd then

MSmits: they're sure it's not worth it if you did covid and then 1 shot

MSmits: but you did 1 shot, then covid

Astrobytes: Well, I had covid, got one shot, and have covid again so...

martinpapa69: wow

MSmits: then it's not worth getting a 2nd shot

MSmits: but damn

reCurse: Have you tried not getting covid?

Astrobytes: Hey it was over a year apart

MSmits: lol

Astrobytes: Seriously. I'm unbelievably careful

Astrobytes: I am also notoriously unlucky.

MSmits: except your grocery shopping is like a minefield right?

Default avatar.png borrel: why would you get a shot when you have had covid?

MSmits: you need at least 1 shot borrel

Astrobytes: Yeah. No amount of care on your part can mitigate idiots.

MSmits: even if you've gotten covid

MSmits: the vaccine offers more protection than getting the actual virus, it seems

Default avatar.png borrel: woudent you have antyboddyies?

MSmits: yes, some

MSmits: but the second time your body goes into overdrive producing them

MSmits: which is why i feel like crap now and not the first time

Default avatar.png borrel: i cee

MSmits: i am talking about shots btw

MSmits: i never got the virus thankfully

Astrobytes: FWIW, my mother also has COVID - after second jab (AZ, I had Pfizer). I blame myself.

MSmits: delta probably ?

MSmits: it's notorious for breakthrough cases

MSmits: but should be far less severe

Astrobytes: They don't give you details but yes I would wager most of my money on it.

Astrobytes: It's noticeably similar.

MSmits: i can't even convince my mother to take a shot :(

MSmits: she's really careful, but it's gonna get her at some point

Astrobytes: But I'm nowhere near as bad as I was before. Unbelievably exhausted and awful, awful cough but not like before.

Default avatar.png borrel: getting it is not the worst for most peaple

Astrobytes: It will. Not a question of if it will, a question of when.

Default avatar.png borrel: oops timing

Default avatar.png borrel: sorry

MSmits: right, but my mom is 70 and diabetic

MSmits: so...

Default avatar.png borrel: oof

Astrobytes: Why won't she get the shot?

MSmits: she is paranoid about some parts of the health system

MSmits: not from watching right wing nutters or something

MSmits: she always watched cnn until trump was gone

Astrobytes: She got dementia of any kind?

MSmits: nope

Default avatar.png borrel: well we have the opeoid cirisis

MSmits: she just has selective paranoia

Astrobytes: Hm. What causes her paranoia?

MSmits: she took care of demented patients for around 20 yrs

MSmits: and she saw them get dosed with some heavy medication

MSmits: haldol and such

MSmits: this made he trust the health system less

Astrobytes: Oh right. Gonna be hard to reassure her

MSmits: her

MSmits: yeah for some people there is no point in pushing

MSmits: they'll only dig in

Astrobytes: But try to at least assure her that the jab isn't haloperidol

MSmits: no she knows that

MSmits: but she just has a general sense of distrust

Astrobytes: *anything like I mean

MSmits: she does take a lot of other healthcare. The paranoia is very selective

MSmits: like insulin

Astrobytes: Fair. The psychiatric care scene is only very recently becoming semi-humane

MSmits: and she had eye surgery

Default avatar.png borrel: also, Talk to you doctor

MSmits: every doctor says the same thing though

MSmits: so you can talk to any doctor

MSmits: they'll all tell you to take the shot unless there is something really weird about you

martinpapa69: ye they have something in their had that they were thought to

martinpapa69: and they try to see the patterns on the patients

MSmits: who are you talking about?

martinpapa69: doctors

MSmits: ah

MSmits: well when it comes to covid, you really don't need a doctors advice unless you have some special conditions

MSmits: like the condition of: right wing media indoctrination

Default avatar.png Rob022: left wing === right wing

MSmits: not when it comes to vaccination

Default avatar.png borrel: extremist === extremist

MSmits: but sure, they both have extremists

Astrobytes: If that was the case they'd all be centrist.

MSmits: covid denial is almost 100% on the right

Default avatar.png Rob022: left and right are the same people, just to oppress people who don't think like them

Astrobytes: Only one of the extremists here has been conjured up again recently. You guess. I'm not participating any further in this discussion.

Default avatar.png Rob022: both sides are idiots

MSmits: right Astrobytes, i'm stopping also :)

MSmits: 1 more week of vacation and then I'm teaching again

MSmits: hope I get to teach full classes and not this annoying semi-physical + online thing

Astrobytes: Have you accomplished ytour set vacation tasks MSmits?

MSmits: that doesn't work at all

Astrobytes: *your

MSmits: around half Astrobytes, I still have hope for next week

Astrobytes: Pretty good going tbh

MSmits: i got the meta mcts for oware to work with the 1-36 seeds endgame books

MSmits: works like a charm

MSmits: given enough time it easily finds the moves played by robo and jace k

MSmits: and it's super fast because it only plays down to 36

Astrobytes: Nice. You were planning to use this for your NN

MSmits: yes i am now considering training it only on the endgame books

MSmits: and just putting an opening book in there for the start

MSmits: it really doesn't take many moves

Astrobytes: Surely it would converge to the same moves anyway

MSmits: and I can put 100k in there and use half the code space

MSmits: training it on the endgame books should make it work better because it's more specialized

MSmits: may need a smaller network

Astrobytes: Yes I see your idea, should be interesting

MSmits: yeah and if nothing else it's just more NN practice. The hardest part is getting the inferrer to work

MSmits: I looked more closely at marchete's work

martinpapa69: hat is a "1-36 seeds endgame books" ?

martinpapa69: what*

MSmits: oware starts with 48 seeds

MSmits: I brute forced all game states with 36 or less seeds

MSmits: so i know the solved value

MSmits: assuming no turn limit

martinpapa69: i see

MSmits: this takes 57 GB on my disk btw

MSmits: using 7 bits per state

MSmits: so it's a lot

MSmits: 7 bits because the values are between -48 and + 48

MSmits: err i mean -36 to +36

MSmits: but still doesn't fit in 6 bit

MSmits: 31 seeds would fit in 6 bit

reCurse: You could try compressing

martinpapa69: wait you encode the whole state in 7 bit ?

MSmits: no, the solved value

MSmits: the net seed gain

MSmits: for the player currently to move

MSmits: the state itself is not stored. I have an index function

martinpapa69: oh so you work with seed diff

MSmits: reCurse not sure if there is any gain to be had from compression. I don't think there are long series of similar results. Can't be sure until i test of course

MSmits: martinpapa69 yes, so that way i can use the result no matter what the score is

MSmits: i just add it to whatever the current score is

Astrobytes: MSmits: Bitstreams!!1!!! :P

martinpapa69: why dont you give the game value to states ?

martinpapa69: -1, 0, 1

MSmits: because the game value also depends on the current score

MSmits: if 12 seeds have been captured

MSmits: it matters if it's 12-0 or 6-6

MSmits: with the net seed gain, the score doesn't matter

MSmits: not for the usefulness of the lookup that is

reCurse: I think you underestimate what some compression can do

MSmits: that's entirely possible

MSmits: but when having a book of gamevalues that can only be 0, -1 or 1, compression is more succesful than when there are 73 different possible values

MSmits: at least that is my assumption

MSmits: but maybe i am only thinking about run-length compression or whatever that's called and a more advanced form would work better

reCurse: RLE is neanderthal

MSmits: no doubt :)

reCurse: Just try it

reCurse: Grab zstd and run it with typical params

MSmits: what exactly should I try?

MSmits: zstd?

reCurse: Yes

MSmits: I'm going to try it just out of curiosity, but what exactly would be the gain of having it compressed?

MSmits: during use it would have to be extracted right?

reCurse: You seemed to mention storage as an issue

MSmits: oh, i just wanted to give an idea of how much data it is. The disk space isnt really the main bottleneck

reCurse: Nevermind then

MSmits: during generation, RAM is the main issue

MSmits: the last book used 29 GB of it

MSmits: almost all of it

MSmits: i could have gone further with memory mapping and such, but it'd be so much slower that it would take months

Astrobytes: Cause it's only taken days up to now? :P

MSmits: no, I think from the start, using a single core it was 2-3 weeks total

MSmits: but more cores might not have been helpful considering the memory issue

MSmits: this game is really very solvable. I think you could do it for less than 5k Euros

MSmits: but you'd have to assume infinite turns, the turn limit messes things up

martinpapa69: this turn thingy sucks

Astrobytes: Write a preliminary paper, get funding, get solved

MSmits: mmh I think it should not be coded by me. I can come up with the algorithm for it, but when i read papers about this, they use some extreme tricks to make this go faster

Astrobytes: Yes. So reach out to people.

MSmits: also they run it on like 40 systems at once

MSmits: mmh I might at some point. Not sure if this is an area of interest though. I should check out what the most popular version of oware is and try for that one instead

martinpapa69: is this game acttually played by anyone ?

Astrobytes: Why not this one? All unsolved games are of interest. Or most.

Astrobytes: Yes martinpapa69

MSmits: martinpapa69 it's in African countries what chess is here and go is in asia

martinpapa69: hm, thought its just an ancient game

MSmits: but there are many versions of it

Astrobytes: It's that too, yes.

MSmits: but i was saying

martinpapa69: pretty good game to experiment with nns tho

MSmits: i was looking at marchetes work

MSmits: I have a lot of problems extracting th e inferrer from it

MSmits: his code is alien to me

MSmits: i can just steal the whole thing and make an azero bot, but thats not what i want

martinpapa69: you can code the nn part in 150 lines

MSmits: really ?

martinpapa69: yes, i actually did that

MSmits: can you point to me, roughly, which parts i need in his code?

MSmits: i saw some matrix and avx stuff

martinpapa69: if you only want to use the nn only i wouldnt recommend to start with that code

martinpapa69: because of the avx stuff

MSmits: well i need the avx stuff

martinpapa69: it makes it look much more complex than it actually is

MSmits: I am actually reasonably competent with avx

MSmits: but yeah i get what you're saying

martinpapa69: i removed the avx part

martinpapa69: it got even faster

MSmits: you dont do any simd?

MSmits: huh ??

MSmits: autovectorization?

martinpapa69: the compliler autovectorises

MSmits: ahh

martinpapa69: i use quantization for inference tho

martinpapa69: with avx

MSmits: well the nice part is that i am just doing a value network

MSmits: no policy

MSmits: so i can just take my bot and replace the eval function with this

MSmits: martinpapa69 what problem are you running into with oware?

MSmits: your bot is not getting into top 10 it seems

MSmits: not saying that's easy. It took marchete a lot of effort too

martinpapa69: im just experimenting. my best one was rank4-5

MSmits: oh, nice

MSmits: yeah i see a lot of martinpapa69 in my battle history

martinpapa69: ye i experiment a lot :D

MSmits: sooo... when you submit your good version, there are only NN's in top 10

martinpapa69: ye

MSmits: crazy

MSmits: it's too bad that oware is such a hard game for a human to get a handle on

MSmits: it's hard to see whether your bot is getting better, except for leaderboard results

MSmits: well... I kinda memorized the first few best moves, from staring at meta mcts, but that's not the same as knowing why moves are good

martinpapa69: ye, thats what i dont like about this game

MSmits: the simplicity is nice though

martinpapa69: on csb for example you isntanly see if your bot acts good

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: on uttt it's the same thing. It's simplicity is nice to learn mcts with, but again, hard to see if it's making good moves

MSmits: othello same

MSmits: at least for me. I have no idea how to play that game

martinpapa69: It would be nice if we had a better sandbox game for nn practice

MSmits: I can play a strong yavalath game though

Uljahn: contribution replays can't be shared, right? i think Space shooter have a bug

MSmits: not sure Uljahn

Astrobytes: Yeah, no sharing of contrib replays. Need to describe it on the contribution Uljahn

Astrobytes: *contribution comment section

michaellan: meta MCTS?

MSmits: a mcts that starts games instead of running a simulation

MSmits: so you got selection, expansion, then instead of the rollout, you set up a full game with calculation time and all, to get a result to backpropagate

Degla74: hey

Swyfti: hello

Swyfti: guys i coded my ai in a strange way

Swyfti: they camp at the enemy's base

Swyfti: if somebody tries to deploy their ghost, we stun them

Swyfti: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/575546895

Swyfti: its a simple spell but quite unbreakable

Swyfti: legend league codebusters who hoo

Swyfti: lets goo

RaulButuc: Interesting strategy :)

Swyfti: by backstab strategy is insane

RaulButuc: :D

Swyfti: insanely useful

Swyfti: im legit beating a guru

Swyfti: :smiling_imp:

Swyfti: cya maryan

Swyfti: off to the legend league i go

michaellan: nice

Default avatar.png shayah_goba: can someone tell me where to learn python with zero knowledge of python

Default avatar.png shayah_goba: ???


Default avatar.png shayah_goba: pls help

Dragon84: i Just bought an interesting udemy course

Default avatar.png shayah_goba: even if i know nothing about python

Default avatar.png shayah_goba: 0

UrbanWhale: Hello Automaton2000


Automaton2000: my only goal is to just run it

Dragon84: yes, it starts with 0 experience

Default avatar.png shayah_goba: ok thx

Dragon84: u start with a web interface of python code programming, so no need to install python at the beginning

xxd: Automaton2000 ur a noob

Automaton2000: at the end of the loop

Dragon84: and with mor lessons u get the progress of installing it using all the librarys and so on

michaellan: oh my god i think i misunderstood the CVZ post-mortem algorithm

Rob022: Hi

michaellan: For the CvZ, would it be better to uniformly choose an angle in which to move, or randomly pick an X and Y coordinate?

michaellan: the X and Y are more biased but that might not be a bad hting

Rob022: :violin:

michaellan: well i must be doing rollouts too slowly... only ~120k in the 90 milliseconds while eldidou did around 1 million it seems

michaellan: i hate optimization

KNTK: Is it okay to hard code validation tests in optimization puzzles?

Westicles: yes

KNTK: I suppose optimizing the hard coding is the task then

Westicles: yeah, there are several optims where you need to solve offline

Poligraph: What standard is used for c++?

Westicles: https://www.codingame.com/playgrounds/40701/help-center/languages-versions

michaellan: I'm gonna write my visualizer in JS

michaellan: cant get OLC to work on macOS :(

Astrobytes: there's a port for it no xxd?

Astrobytes: Pretty sure it's supported

Astrobytes: Join the discord server, you can get tech support there fairly quick

Astrobytes: (I am in no way affiliated to this free stuff btw)

Astrobytes: And I'm also going to bed. So gn too

michaellan: i filed an issue on the mac port

michaellan: gn

michaellan: yeah i understand, i just am too impatient

Astrobytes: Oh cool. Defo check the discord out, the links on there somewhere

Astrobytes: People are helpful if you have a proper question

Astrobytes: Right, I'm off now :)

michaellan: o/ gn

Default avatar.png beepbooping: yoyoyoyooo

high_spparow: Hi guys why can we don't we use forEach , map, filter.. in javascript ?

michaellan: ParseError: line 1 "why can we don't we use"

jthemphill: @high_spparow You should be able to use them if you want... I personally don't think they're easier to read than a `for` loop is though

Jon...: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/96f657b7-baac-4933-ac23-dc6b9290a172

Jon...: I think theres plenty of times they are more readable

Jon...: But easy to abuse of course

michaellan: I like FP so i naturally gravitate towards those HOFs

michaellan: visualizing a set of transformations on data is awesome

michaellan: but HOF/closure-centric programming is often slower than just using a for loop

cw477: Why are we so bad at information systems, as a human race?

michaellan: I went and wrote a DSL for this stupid visualizer

michaellan: oh my god it works

michaellan: oh my god

michaellan: if anybody else is interested i can try polishing it up

michaellan: It takes in input in this format: http://ix.io/3vXp

Mundgus: Hy! Somebody know, how can I write a simple empty line to the console in Python?

ZarthaxX: like just print() ?

Mundgus: First I want to print an empty line, and after some characters in the next line, but the first line disappear

Mundgus: Yeah

Mundgus: But if I do: print() print('foo')


Mundgus: The first empty line disappear

ZarthaxX: that should work..

ZarthaxX: you can also use \n

Mundgus: I tried this too: s = '\nfoo'

ZarthaxX: mm

ZarthaxX: it should be working :P

Mundgus: Yeah, I know :D


michaellan: I hate that the bug i ran into was me forgetting that structs have value semantics, but when a struct member is a pointer, the data wont be copied -_-

michaellan: i shouldnt have needed to code an entire visualizatiion to realize this :cry:

michaellan: on the plus side, if anyone is interested in this, it looks like this https://imagebin.ca/v/6CB1YU7idbA0

michaellan: and has an easy format to input :)

michaellan: you can hold down left and right arrows to move through frames

xxd: oh my god, my MC is working

xxd: it even knows how to combo without me ever telling it to do so