Chat:World/2021-05-28

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Default avatar.png ggenilson: Morning Guys

Default avatar.png NuggetsAreTasty: Hi

Default avatar.png Alemhan: hi

Smelty: goood night yall

scripto_entity_1010: goodnight

Pizza_Steve: Anyone up ?

aCat: yep ;]

Pizza_Steve: Level 38 ._.

Pizza_Steve: Oh man

aCat: I know, I know :(:(

aCat: shamely low

Pizza_Steve: You shouldn't be sad >:((

Pizza_Steve: LOOW?

Pizza_Steve: Cmon

aCat: but I'm trying to progress

Pizza_Steve: Shushushush

aCat: :joy_cat:

Default avatar.png ArtLiteracyStory: Hello world

Pizza_Steve: Hello buddy

Default avatar.png nightmarex: hi c:

Pizza_Steve: Hi :>

micoze-stella: hi

micoze-stella: shitty

Pizza_Steve: Hi

Default avatar.png utshab: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/17792397b28e27dd225603d7669711a65d90bf6

Default avatar.png utshab: anyone

Default avatar.png utshab: ?

Default avatar.png utshab: without shortest mode

Nino_le_bg: hi

Default avatar.png rdj_07: How to give custom input ?

SubwayMan: Is there a way to turn off the suggestions dialog that appears while typing in editor? It's annoyingly large and blocks vision

Uljahn: rdj_07: set mode to Expert in settings, but not all puzzles support custom inputs

Uljahn: SubwayMan: block lsp-community.codingame.com

Nino_le_bg: i am underwater please help me

Stormalix: ha

Stormalix: i read that as underwear :pensive:

derjack: oO

Stormalix: u knoew im getting sleepyu when i cant read or type

Nino_le_bg: ohohohoohohoohohoohoho

PureKsos: i love woman

PureKsos: https://escape.codingame.com/?fromToken=Gru-LQL-IjC-Ck6

Default avatar.png sdbbr: One of those days https://escape.codingame.com/?fromToken=4Vl-0Wg-Jv3-V7V

NguyenBin217: tình yêu cứ thế đông đầy

khaleo: ???

Default avatar.png paul_pvc: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/1779369c4c3f1bdb9c1ac7ada2c6ef1f15d533b

derjack: oh my

Uljahn: Automaton2000: buruh

Automaton2000: if you have a working bot

Default avatar.png DavidGisser: has anyone seen a DFS/BFS question in the wild here

derjack: on the chat?

Uljahn: there are some puzzles with BFS/DFS tags https://www.codingame.com/learn/BFS https://www.codingame.com/learn/DFS

StrykrJ: If anyone is looking for a another cool multiplayer bot arena competition -- a friend of mine created this one and it's pretty addictive

https://www.codingame.com/ide/puzzle/volcanoes

Westicles: Would be nice to have a Pentakis icosidodecahedron tag

derjack: its approved, noice

Greg_3141: Why isn't unlambda supported as a language? It's almost like codingame doesn't want to support readable and performant code

sprkrd: probably because they don't even know it exists

Westicles: It's almost like nobody has asked them to add it in the thread where that is done

sprkrd: I was just kidding, it's the first time I hear about that language

sprkrd: So many languages today

sprkrd: And still the best one is C :wink:

Uljahn: i guess adding support for a new language is non-trivial, even updating current set of languages is hard for CG admins due to legacy architecture decisions

sprkrd: so... you were being ironic right, Greg_3141?

sprkrd: This thing doesn't seem readable at all

sprkrd: It seems worse that Perl

sprkrd: Damn, it looks like it's in the same leaghe as brainfuck

sprkrd: league*

AYB: who done Simplified Monopoly™ Turns Prediction??

Westicles: Yes, CG broke all my code golfs with the last update. Let us pray they don't ever run a leaderboard refresh

derjack: so CG broke your CGs

sprkrd: Code Golfs broke his CodinGames

darkhorse64: Which code golfs are broken ?

Westicles: mine

Westicles: ruby is no longer findable without the full path

darkhorse64: Ruby is beyond my comprehension. No worries then for me. Tx

AYB: hi

Default avatar.png cool333: hi

MXgms: 👋

linjoehan: I'm in here now, and also at work in a meeting on zoom and also at home. times have changed.

derjack: :v

linjoehan: Is that supposed to be pacman? you know he has no eyes right

derjack: v

Tychkorg69: s3x?

Tychkorg69: any egirl?

Tychkorg69: me licky egirl

Tychkorg69: dm me

Westicles: the clash bots want women?

Default avatar.png Tomm113: fuck

IIKINGIIArthur: hai oi

IIKINGIIArthur: hai

Default avatar.png Tomm113: an khùng

IIKINGIIArthur: I'm Huan Rose

IIKINGIIArthur: I'm from VietNam

Default avatar.png laiyuan: :wave:

Default avatar.png Tomm113: ngọc ơi

Default avatar.png Pearl23: hú

IIKINGIIArthur: ???

Default avatar.png Pearl23: ???

Default avatar.png Tomm113: fowwloaf mới mời dc

IIKINGIIArthur: ai zay

Default avatar.png DatHaHa: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/17797361120fa350b1bb7d1d774706ca5a6aced

IIKINGIIArthur: Huan Hoa hHong

Default avatar.png DatHaHa: vo

Default avatar.png DatHaHa: go

Default avatar.png DatHaHa: go

Pearl23: ỏ

Pearl23: vô r nè

IIKINGIIArthur: join di

Default avatar.png DatHaHa: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/17797361120fa350b1bb7d1d774706ca5a6aced

KalamariKing: Not sure what language that is, but we try to keep #world in english

Default avatar.png anon777: https://www.webcountdown.net/?c=1622221200&up=1

Default avatar.png anon777: missend

Default avatar.png anon777: ignore pls

KalamariKing: will not

Default avatar.png anon777: haha

Pearl23: Herosy ai v?

Default avatar.png Tomm113: đạt hà

Default avatar.png Tomm113: me out

Pearl23: ủa, mn có chơi nữa hong

Pearl23: vô để coi đề nè

Default avatar.png Tomm113: có

KalamariKing: #vn

IIKINGIIArthur: doi xiu

IIKINGIIArthur: cbi choi hoi dong

KalamariKing: Vui lòng nói tiếng Anh

Default avatar.png Tomm113: đéo

KalamariKing: thanks google

IIKINGIIArthur: :)

Pearl23: no, sorry, i don't speak

Default avatar.png DatHaHa: ai vô k

IIKINGIIArthur: nhanh nhanh

Default avatar.png DatHaHa: hu

IIKINGIIArthur: go go go

Default avatar.png DatHaHa: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/177976008da07d64b67d81535870f5109e3455b

IIKINGIIArthur: :stuck_out_tongue:

Default avatar.png Tomm113: dahaha chấp hết

Default avatar.png DatHaHa: :joy:

KalamariKing: sau đó chuyển sang #vn, world chat chỉ có tiếng Anh

Default avatar.png Tomm113: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/17798136dcf708eb53d8a5dd8ab55dfea1307c9

KalamariKing: we're back to english now yes?

KiwiTae: also Tomm113 #clash don't spam general hehe

AntiSquid: Tomm113 has been kicked by AntiSquid. DatHaHa has been kicked by AntiSquid.


AntiSquid: #vn was mentioned twice

KalamariKing: thanks anti

Default avatar.png AlexanderImbault: Hey I just filled out a profile and it asked me if I wanted to take a 30 minute technical test to boost my profile. I am a bit busy now and don't have the time, how can I come back to that and take it later?

derjack: huh

KalamariKing: I don't think I've ever seen that

KalamariKing: And I thought chat was level 3

ZarthaxX: huh how is the lvl 2 talking e.e

KiwiTae: u can access the chat lvl1 if u good

ZarthaxX: lol

Scarfield: the minimum lvl for world chat was changed during a contest i think euler said, then never changed back - also hi :)

ZarthaxX: oh

ZarthaxX: HAI scarfo

Scarfield: oi

Scarfield: trying to fix UTTT, was my first attempt at MCTS. Damn its a mess xD

ZarthaxX: haha

ZarthaxX: im gonna try that one soon i think

MSmits: just keep it really really simple at first. 500-600 lines is possible

struct: mine is under 500

MSmits: my current version is 2k lines

struct: im rewriting it atm

struct: 2k o.o

MSmits: but i think it's 300 lines of just different expansion functions :P

ZarthaxX: legend with 500 lines??

MSmits: yeah possible

MSmits: easily

ZarthaxX: for real

ZarthaxX: i guess you need an optimized board tho

MSmits: well easily if you're good at optimizing

ZarthaxX: uttt performance was key right?

ZarthaxX: just to have in mind

struct: took me like 2-3 days

MSmits: it's not enough though, if you want top 20

ZarthaxX: struct you are too good

MSmits: if you optimize to the max and do nothing else, you will not hit top 20 i think

ZarthaxX: MSmits talking about getting into legend at least

MSmits: yeah optimization is enough for that

ZarthaxX: i guess you need to modify rollouts tho

MSmits: I got in with C#

struct: is solver + the teccles + fast good enough for top 20?

MSmits: and it was vanilla

MSmits: struct, might be

struct: + reutilizing tree

struct: I dont do any of that atm

MSmits: well i dont really reuse tree

Scarfield: :o

MSmits: well the thing is i have reuse code

struct: why not?

MSmits: coded

MSmits: but i make assumptions about the opponent

Scarfield: all that pressious data

MSmits: if the assumptions are wrong, tree is reset

KalamariKing: precious*

MSmits: and they are often wrong

struct: ah

struct: you prune enemy actions?

MSmits: i assume opponent uses teccles

MSmits: so if he doesnt, i have no tree to reuse

ZarthaxX: oh c# legend

struct: Does it play worse if you dont assume he plays teccles?

ZarthaxX: nice then

Scarfield: was about to look up the spelling, but figured you would know what i meant KalamariKing, but ty :)

MSmits: not sure struct, but the idea is that you assume your opponent plays well, if you think teccles is optimal play, why not assume your opponent uses it

struct: because you will be able to reuse tree more often

struct: everytime*

MSmits: yes but that seems pointless, i mean the whole idea is to explore with mcts. If your opponent is going to pick a bad move, you're not going to have much of a tree to use either

MSmits: you're just extending that idea to not having a tree at all

MSmits: and having more of a tree from the teccles node

struct: well cant you have larger exploration factor while you are still playing teccles?

MSmits: sure, but why?

MSmits: every visit that goes outside of the teccles branch is not going to the teccles branch

MSmits: so it weakens the teccles branch reuse

MSmits: and thats the most likely move

struct: ah I see

struct: but are the others that much worse?

MSmits: maybe not, but even if they are just as good, the gain by placing a visit in a different branch is 0

MSmits: only if the other branches are better, is it different

MSmits: also remember that the effect of tree reuse is minimal

MSmits: you lose most of the visits anyway

struct: I think it would be worth it

MSmits: oh, tree reuse is worth it, but the gain is around 10% or so

MSmits: if your guess about teccles is correct, then the gain is 100%

MSmits: because you keep the full tree

MSmits: if it's not correct, it's a small loss

MSmits: since almost every top player uses teccles...

MSmits: even the NN's use it most of the time

RoboStac: just checking a random game on mine (I've got no pruning) the teccles moves get 90% of the visits

MSmits: yeah, that kinda makes sense

MSmits: that means tree reuse for the other moves does almost nothing

struct: yours is NN too?

RoboStac: so at most the tree reuse is starting with 400 visits which is basically just noise once you get past the enemy turn

struct: oh I see you climbed, nice

MSmits: oh hey RoboStac, this is for sure a NN

MSmits: right?

RoboStac: yeah

KalamariKing: whats it called when a nn plays itself to train

KalamariKing: rl + ___

RoboStac: I finally worked out what I was doing wrong

RoboStac: selfplay

KalamariKing: yeah

KalamariKing: how high would rl+selfplay get

MSmits: what were you doing wrong RoboStac?

MSmits: KalamariKing in most boardgames, rank 1

MSmits: if you do it better than others

RoboStac: a few things - I'd reused my original code so it was pruning moves. Also changing the input format so small boards didn't have the leftover moves on helped a lot.

MSmits: what are leftover moves?

RoboStac: the final state of the small board

RoboStac: it's irrelevant to the eval

RoboStac: other than win / loss / draw

MSmits: oh right

MSmits: all this NN action only shows how amazing karliso's bot is :P

struct: MSmits do you take into account if the miniboard can still be finished by either player?

1415495: selfplay may or may not converge to a stable policy or cycle through multiple policies, I think that if it does converge to a stable policy, then it is a nash equilibirum but I am unsure that I have correctly understood the theory on that point

MSmits: yeah struct

MSmits: i do

ddreams: which game are you talking about?

MSmits: ultimate tic tac toe ddreams

struct: thanks, I was thinking on also adding that

MSmits: I have a really slow expansion function that checks all that stuff

ddreams: right, never tried

MSmits: is a win still possible for p1, for p2 etc.

struct: yeah, makes sense

MSmits: only have like 60k-65k rollouts now

struct: "only"

MSmits: well at one time i could get 130k on a good cpu :)

MSmits: when expanding i also exclude moves where the opponent could get a win if you made them

MSmits: so if a winning board is in the top left corner for opponent

MSmits: then i never allow any top left moves in any miniboard, nor do i allow moves giving a free move

MSmits: unless they are winning moves

MSmits: expansion is almost like a ply 2 mimimax

struct: even if the opponent move would allow you to place anywhere in the board?

struct: ah I see

MSmits: no i mean a game winning move

struct: yeah

MSmits: so if the opponent can get 3 boards in a row by winning top left and he can win there with 1 opporunity to move

struct: Understood, thanks

MSmits: kk

MSmits: all these checks are quite slow

MSmits: which is why i have different expansion functions

MSmits: one for early game and one for mid game

MSmits: so < 2 boards finished, i use the early game expansion which is fast

KalamariKing: could you somehow use online matches for rl?

struct: I see

MSmits: kinda KalamariKing

MSmits: you can download json files and use the gamestates for learning

MSmits: it's more supervised though

MSmits: well not sure, in any case, you can use the information

MSmits: however, this is *very* similar to counterbooking

MSmits: because you're learning to counter that specific player you're downloading matches against

MSmits: probably, if the other player submits a new version, all that learning is wasted

MSmits: proper self-play learning that guarantees generalization is better

KalamariKing: ok true

MSmits: but i proved that that can be counterbooked against also, because these bots usually become deterministic to some extent. my conclusion is that we should just avoid counterbooking. It's unbeatable

KiwiTae: u use cg api to download the matches streams?

KalamariKing: but if both players in self-play converge to an 'ideal' play-style, then the games will all be exactly the same and no learning will be done

KalamariKing: if that makes sense

KalamariKing: the 'ideal' playstyle would only be ideal when playing itself

MSmits: KalamariKing the problem is that a NN never becomes perfect. It almost always makes at least one mistake

RoboStac: you need some sort of noise/randomness in selfplay to stop it being deterministic

MSmits: and from a solved game perspective, a single mistake is enough to turn a win in a loss

MSmits: into

MSmits: RoboStac yeah, but this is not easy to do. Jacek mostly manages it, but if I want to, I can still counter it to a 50+ % win

RoboStac: yeah, but thats the submitted versions

MSmits: yes, and he can always resubmit

RoboStac: the learning in selfplay has a lot more randomness

MSmits: it has to

MSmits: or it wont be generalized

RoboStac: yeah

MSmits: RoboStac do you think if you knew for every gamestate in oware, what the solved value is, you'd be able to make a better NN?

MSmits: say assuming there are infinite turns (thats more doable)

MSmits: turn limit complicates things

MSmits: I'm just wondering if a supervised learning bot using these values would do better than a good selflplay bot

MSmits: you could make it do selfplay anyways, but instead of using values from the rollout, you just take the states and look up the game-theoretical value

RoboStac: I've no idea. I'd be worried about really long sequences of moves that lead to a win but are hard to find

RoboStac: because you'd be teaching it this state is good, but it might not be able to find out why

MSmits: this is from a policy perspective right

MSmits: i should clarify, you have the solved seed counts, not just the WLD

RoboStac: value too - it won't be perfectly accurate so you might get some states on the way that eval slightly lower

MSmits: right, so you're saying selfplay would value states that win much later, lower, so that you will be able to win sooner

RoboStac: well, it would probably just never find the long sequence of exactly perfect moves

RoboStac: I'm not sure how much that is an issue in oware

MSmits: right, it's a valid concern

RoboStac: I think it would probably work quite well though

MSmits: I want to set up supervised learning for oware. Trying to enlarge my endgame db to 30 seeds or so and use a well searched meta mcts for the 31-48 seeds

MSmits: ingame, it would have a 9 or 10 endgame db, so it doesnt need to learn on that part

MSmits: still not sure about the one-hot part

MSmits: i get why you and jacek use one-hot, but ... soooo many inputs

MSmits: for my TTT, one hot wasnt better. Not that that proves anything

Uljahn: just more features for nn to choose from

MSmits: yeah, oware is special because specific seed counts do different thing

Uljahn: also RL with expert demonstrations (replay data) is called Imitation Learning https://smartlabai.medium.com/a-brief-overview-of-imitation-learning-8a8a75c44a9c

MSmits: so it makes sense to one-hot them

MSmits: ahh ok

MSmits: isnt RL a huge umbrella term?

MSmits: requiring clarification every time?

Uljahn: true

-oa-: hi all!

MSmits: hi -oa-

derjack: moshi moshi

KalamariKing: MSmits you say rl is an umbrella term... what's under it?

derjack: well is alphazero-like really RL? or more like self supervised learning but it gets labels from searched self

MSmits: KalamariKing I am not an expert, but when i google RL I find tons and tons of different things

MSmits: TD learning is RL for example

KalamariKing: td?

MSmits: temporal difference

herrmann: Generally, if you learn a function Q(S,A) "what's the value of applying action A in state S" it's RL

MSmits: but that's Q learning

MSmits: isnt it?

derjack: q learning is rl

MSmits: right

MSmits: so that was my point :P

MSmits: it's all RL

herrmann: AlphaZero has V(S) and a policy pi(S) -> A

herrmann: V(S) is the marginalized Q(S,A)

KalamariKing: What IS q-learning

Uljahn: what is learning

MSmits: i can tell you the simples possible form of Q learning

herrmann: These things are "RLish", but, yes, it's a large sub-area

derjack: but it periodically gathers experience into buffer and then learns from it in supervised fashion

KalamariKing: learn a func to predict gamestate at next timesetep?

MSmits: play games, learn for every possible state what the best action was

KalamariKing: I see

MSmits: put it all in a table

MSmits: and play games using that table

KalamariKing: That doesnt seem very nn tho

MSmits: it's not

KalamariKing: oh ok

MSmits: well

MSmits: it doesnt have neurons

MSmits: it's ML though

KalamariKing: how does it learn?

KalamariKing: as in how does it update past experience

derjack: you can change table into nn

KalamariKing: but then is it q learning

herrmann: Experience Replay is also a form of making supervised learning into reinforcement learning

MSmits: every time it plays a game, it checks all states it has seen and updates with the endgame value

KalamariKing: or just rl

MSmits: i can give you an example of Q learning, sec

MSmits: https://trinket.io/python/6cd0e1872a?outputOnly=true

MSmits: play like 10 games or so

MSmits: and you will start losing

MSmits: because it is q-learning

herrmann: Tabular Q-learning is RL without a NN, but if that table is huge you won't be able to have values for every cell, so you need to generalize, and for that you can use a NN or something else

MSmits: btw, the goal of the game is using pawn moves and reaching the other side, if you cant move, you lose

MSmits: rules are close to breakthrough, but not exactly

KalamariKing: I see your point MSmits its starting to learn

MSmits: if you change the adress to outputonly = false, you can see the code

MSmits: but it's probably not easy to read

MSmits: it's basically using a table of states and their possible moves

KalamariKing: yeah

MSmits: remembering the succes of earlier games sort of

KalamariKing: interesting

KalamariKing: so that's q learning you said?

MSmits: it takes current value * (1 - lr) + latest result * lr

MSmits: lr being learning rate

MSmits: it has 50% learning rate or s

MSmits: o

MSmits: yes its q learning

MSmits: but super simple, because it only works for simple games

MSmits: you cant do this for a game with billions of states or more

herrmann: Q-learning is for when you don't know the dynamics... here the dynamics are usually given in the form of te game's rules

MSmits: yeah it is, but you can use it also when you do know the dynamics

MSmits: you can even use it to solve a maze

herrmann: Yes, but usually not the full Q(S,A) learning

MSmits: instead of a pathfinding algorithm

herrmann: AlphaZero is an example too

MSmits: could that be considered Q learning?

herrmann: Not Q-learning, but "yes RL" ;-)

MSmits: ah yes

MSmits: it's all RL :)

herrmann: (Astronaut meme)

MSmits: dont know that meme

Default avatar.png DominoSv: hey im new here

MSmits: but i am not an astronaut, so makes sense!

Uljahn: always has been

Default avatar.png DominoSv: i have little experince with code

MSmits: hi DominoSv

Default avatar.png DominoSv: can someone help me

MSmits: with ?

herrmann: https://imgflip.com/i/5baeji

MSmits: oh "real"

MSmits: I was thinking "Red leader" from star wars

Default avatar.png DominoSv: i am trying to code my bot. i have reached the part where i need the checkpoint angle and distance but i dont know what to do

struct: reset the code

struct: top right of ide

MSmits: csb is flawed in that the input changes, so your old code doesnt exactly work anymore

Default avatar.png DominoSv: ok

MSmits: other games usually dont have this, the game changes but the input stays the same

Default avatar.png DominoSv: i have reset

MSmits: then you can start coding again :)

KiwiTae: enjoy :hug:

Default avatar.png DominoSv: i dont know what to do

derjack: oo

Uljahn: think

struct: There is a tutorial

struct: I think

MSmits: DominoSv I would suggest trying practice puzzles if you're just trying to get better at using code to solve problems

MSmits: easy ones

MSmits: try multiple different ones if you fail on a lot of them. If you can tsolve a single one, then you need more basic training in your language

Default avatar.png DominoSv: ok

MSmits: it's ok to be stuck for an hour on an easy practice puzzle, if you're new, but not half a day

MSmits: when i learned python with easy puzzles i sometimes took an hour because i couldnt figure out how to make python do what i wanted

Default avatar.png DominoSv: i am trying to learn c#

MSmits: that was my first language

MSmits: its a good place to start

Default avatar.png DominoSv: thx

Default avatar.png DominoSv: any more pointers

ddreams: those are more common in C/C++

Default avatar.png DominoSv: oh ok

ddreams: :p

ddreams: C# is a great language

MSmits: ddreams is making a c++ joke DominoSv, pointers are a thing in c++

MSmits: DominoSv use google a lot

MSmits: in fact you can find whole solutions to the most common puzzles here, but try not to copy them, bette rto find it yourself

Astheod: As my teacher in Java would say read the ****ing Javadoc :joy:

Wontonimo: good morning (or afternoon for those on the other side of the planet)

MSmits: morning

Wontonimo: I haven't tried searching for CG puzzles. Seems like the worst of spoilers

MSmits: well i havent tried either, but my students have :P

Wontonimo: being a student is very hard balance between real learning and performing on assignments and tests

MSmits: yep

ddreams: well, if you only focus on the first you should do well on the second

MSmits: but might be more time intensive in the short term

Wontonimo: but it takes much more effort. yeah, what MSmits said ^^

Wontonimo: i agree with you ddreams, and mostly tried to do that in uni

Wontonimo: my grades weren't awesome, but man did i learn a lot

ddreams: which is the only thing that matters in my opinion

reCurse: Seems naive

reCurse: The second is most important while you try to fit in the first through other means

ddreams: What's naive?

MSmits: from a effort vs immediate reward perspective you are right

reCurse: Focusing on the first doing well on the second

reCurse: Is naive imo

MSmits: that's not a general truth. It depends a lot on the quality of education and quality of testing

MSmits: if the education is bad or the test is bad, then you're right

reCurse: I've yet to see that work out, but I won't pretend I know every education of course

derjack: the point is: dont overfit to test :*

MSmits: I'd like to think I mostly succeed in this in my physics or CS testing at least.

MSmits: well overfitting definitely happens :)

reCurse: I might have just a strong bias against classes shrug

Wontonimo: are we talking bias and overfitting again? :D

MSmits: I've mentored some students that told me they were pissed at their math teacher

Wontonimo: why?

MSmits: "He taught us how pentagons work and on the test he did a hexagon:

Wontonimo: yeah, that's sad

derjack: bias against classes? so youre into struct?

MSmits: struct > class no typing public

MSmits: less typing = good

Wontonimo: lol

MSmits: it's just confusing when coming from C#

MSmits: structs are completely different there

ddreams: I think formal education is a waste of time for many people.. with careful selection of subjects you could manage to pass the CS curriculum with a bare minimum of coding experience

ddreams: at least at my uni

reCurse: Still need to go through it to open the doors

reCurse: Just need a side-study to do the learning that matters

ddreams: for programmers, the door is quite open

Greg_3141: Why would you go to university for practical coding experience? You can do that at a job; that way you get paid instead of paying a university

jacek: bronze in code a la mode :tada:

Greg_3141: your bot must be very advanced

reCurse: Yeah good luck getting the job

reCurse: You probably won't make it past the basic filters

ddreams: I did it myself, worked for several years before going to uni

Greg_3141: depends on the job, but even $30k/year is better than a negative salary (AKA tuition fees)

MSmits: reCurse i think the bias in your experience is strong (not your fault), all my RL friends have the same experience. They did 5 years of computer science and at the end they barely learned to code

reCurse: Not if you make a lot more after you're doing with tuition

MSmits: my experience in physics is way different

Wontonimo: i don't know what it is like now at uni, but there internet was very young when I went and Netscape just release the first browser. Uni was very important then. I imagine with so much online now, the education system is undergoing huge change and an existential crisis

Wontonimo: but I don't have first hand experience in this new era

reCurse: It's still a basic filter to weed out thousands of resumes

reCurse: You can still make do without, just on hard mode instead

ddreams: really? I thought it'd be more important now.. I got hired in '00 after finishing high school

Greg_3141: From what I can tell, the point of a CS degree is to understand the theory of the subject (algorithms, grammars, etc). IMO complaining that you didn't get much coding experience as a CS major is like complaining that you didn't do a bunch of integrals by hand as a math major

ddreams: I think the competition is much greater now

jacek: nowadays in CS/IT studies, if you dont do almost all by yourself, youll learn nothing

MSmits: I wonder how hard it would be for me to get a coding job

ddreams: Very easy, I believe

jacek: in other studies like physics it is less noticeable

MSmits: I have a physics master and only CS teaching degree, not an actual CS bachelor or master

reCurse: Greg you're correct in theory and technically

reCurse: In practice tons of people go through that with the expectation of having a job, which is a reasonable one

reCurse: And the system fails them

Wontonimo: physics master gets you in. it's a math background, grounded in logic and deduction

MSmits: ah ok cool

ddreams: even without your physics, you could probably have a job next week if you wanted

MSmits: I guess it depends on how picky you are. Coders seem to be in short supply

KalamariKing: There's a shortage of cs majors who actually know how to code

KalamariKing: its all theoretical nowadays, and businesses can;t use that

ddreams: Exactly

reCurse: They want the degree and the relevant knowledge

reCurse: That's why you need to do both

reCurse: It sucks but that's how it is

MSmits: we have a level of education thats below university, but still called higher education, it gives out bacherlors degrees. That's not theoretical at all. These guys know how to code

ddreams: If you're good at coding, you don't need it, imo

reCurse: You will close yourself a ton of doors

reCurse: You might still go through

reCurse: Just be warned

Wontonimo: 2/3rds of our developers are front end. make buttons clickable, format the page, get the right colours displayed. Don't need a lot of algorithm theory for that, you need dedication to grind and speed

MSmits: this seems like a horrible job to me :(

MSmits: well maybe not horrible

Greg_3141: yeah probably is

MSmits: but not fun

Wontonimo: I am not in that group. it would be a horrible job for me too

ddreams: Backend is a much better place

Greg_3141: you could probably get a job as a quantum computing researcher or something

Greg_3141: if you wanted to

MSmits: nahh too late for that Greg_3141 :)

MSmits: my masters was astrophysics

MSmits: lots of computer science goes into that field as well

MSmits: modelling and working with tons of data

Wontonimo: then you are in.

MSmits: probably some machine learning as well these days

Greg_3141: They're starting to use machine learning at CERN, it's pretty interesting

KalamariKing: Machine learning for? astrophysics?

linjoehan: lol I got kicked from my last job because our team started doing frontend stuff. It's boring and I don't know how to do it.

MSmits: I am pretty sure they created neural networks for spectral classification already

MSmits: without needing to look that up

KalamariKing: Wow alright

MSmits: https://arxiv.org/abs/1412.8341

MSmits: just looked it up :P

Wontonimo: from 2014 none-the-less

KalamariKing: Yeah, wow

ddreams: perhaps you ML masters should join the cancer mole recognition competition

ddreams: https://siim.org/page/melanoma_classification_challenge

MSmits: ye moles are a cancer, all those holes in your backyard

Wontonimo: ML is just getting into anything to do with classification, clustering, and search

jacek: who cares about cancer. im waiting for certain bioengineering task

Wontonimo: which bioengineering task?

KalamariKing: I saw something like that, that ml is used for detecting cancer and diabetes/kidney damage and stuff

jacek: https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-79a3cbbe45b61891c1cab3435dfdb090.webp

MSmits: biology has an entire field where they identify species and such. Those guys will be redundant unless they get into ML themselves

reCurse: People seem to forget you still need datasets...

Greg_3141: What certifications do recruiters on codingame look for? Silver? Gold? Legend?

MSmits: yeah ofc

ddreams: Datasets are part of the competition

reCurse: I was responding to MSmits

linjoehan: I think there was a dog trained to sniff for cancer so we've had the technology for a while

ddreams: ah, right

Wontonimo: i have no idea Greg_3141 . I've not been contacted, so couldn't tell you.

KalamariKing: Companies contact people on cg?

reCurse: I don't think any recruiter cares at all about CG certifications

reCurse: I wouldn't bother putting those

KalamariKing: I knew they did for sponsored contests, etc

MSmits: nah they just make you solve a puzzle here

KalamariKing: oh ok cool

MSmits: one time I got 69th out of 1000 on some sponsored contest and I accidentally checked the contact for jobs box

MSmits: and got a phone call

MSmits: from France...

Bishwo: nice

KalamariKing: lol looking to move

MSmits: then I said I wasnt looking for a job in France

reCurse: :french_bread:

ZarthaxX: lol

MSmits: and they called me back a few days later

linjoehan: I'd mention CG but not to the recruiter though bring it up in your later interviews

ZarthaxX: nice :O

MSmits: with a job offer from England

ZarthaxX: O.O

MSmits: this is with 69th rank :P

Wontonimo: there you go, why you asking if you can get a coding job?

ZarthaxX: what contest was this

MSmits: Amadeus i think

MSmits: the gitc clone

KalamariKing: you're not in the states right

reCurse: Sponsored competition is different though, that was the whole point

MSmits: I am in the Netherlands

reCurse: CG certifications though, different altogether

KalamariKing: y'all are weird. I heard something that you all won't drive 30-40 minutes for a good job opportunity... over here, living 2-3 hours from your job is normal

jacek: sounds like US thing

Wontonimo: that sir is weird

MSmits: you mean you *think* it's normal, but you're all out of your mind :P

ddreams: and you drive there every day?

ddreams: or do you have an apartment there?

ZarthaxX: ah amadeus one, makes more sense then

MSmits: I have to travel 60 min to my job, 35 min train 25 min walk

Wontonimo: that is a significant portion of your life driving

MSmits: people consider me to live far from work

Wontonimo: 60 min is more reasonable, with a good amount being exercise

ddreams: yeah, I have refused jobs 60 minutes driving away

Greg_3141: may as well become a trucker then, if you drive 4 to 6 hours per day :)

MSmits: Wontonimo yeah and i get to work/relax in train, using train wifi (that mostly works)

Illedan: Being a trucker would give me more time for hobby coding though :D

ddreams: I've basically worked mostly remotely since 2011 though

Illedan: *more mental capacity

MSmits: Illedan maybe when self driving cars get better :P

MSmits: oh mental capacity.. sure

Illedan: Where do you work ddreams?

Wontonimo: i've been remote for the last 4 years. It's been great. I don't want to go back

jacek: then release another virus

jacek: [solved]

ddreams: I work as a consultant in my own company

MSmits: lol

Greg_3141: nice

Illedan: Chill

Wontonimo: but you must have clients, or the revenue will be low

ddreams: so for several different clients

jacek: do you like your boss

Illedan: I guess it's complicated

ddreams: hehe

MSmits: he doesnt have a boss, he's a consultant

ddreams: currently writing ship simulators for Kongsberg Maritime

Wontonimo: he has multiple bosses

MSmits: nice

Greg_3141: what software do you use for it, if any? Unity, maybe?

MSmits: unreal engine?

Wontonimo: what kind of things are you simulating with about the ships? voyage, cargo, repairs and maintenance ?

Illedan: Maybe going full CG on the simulation? Meta MCTS ship search?

ddreams: currently they're using an in-house engine

MSmits: maybe it's one of those ships that is self-sustaining to house the last remaining survivors of the apocalypse

Wontonimo: and is self aware

MSmits: yeah

Greg_3141: Interesting. Does it look good?

ddreams: it looks pretty crap, compared to games

MSmits: Greg_3141 goes straight to the center of the matter

struct: it doesnt need to look good

Greg_3141: come on, it can't look bad compared to roblox

ddreams: all the focus have been on accuracy

jacek: is this for ooc

Illedan: I heard about that engine during a job interview last year

Wontonimo: i would be worried if it looked awesome; sure sign that it is all smoke and mirrors in the backend cuz they spent all their money on flashy flash

ddreams: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/videos/new-police-coast-guard-simulators-make-training-safer-more-13154072#.X3E5uGVxgdo.whatsapp

Greg_3141: looks kind of like roblox

struct: so its a bot simulator

struct: nice

Wontonimo: oh, that kind of simulation. I thought it was a logistics simulation not a pilot sim

MSmits: that needs a lot of physics

struct: im going to port it

struct: to cg

Illedan: OOC 3D?

Greg_3141: I wonder how Roblox manages to charge such a high rate for people to use their shitty engine

Westicles: can it sim going sideways in the suez canal?

struct: you need suez dlc for that

KalamariKing: There's plenty of 6yr olds to play roblox, so if the devs can get in-app purchases, they're making bank

ddreams: haha, yes, would be fun to set up that exercise

struct: Does it also generate real world?

struct: like flight simulator

MSmits: isnt flight simulator real world mostly used to find your house and crash it there ?

ddreams: generate? all the exercise areas are prepared in advance

ddreams: there are some visuals generated

struct: I think current flight simulator generates real map

Greg_3141: You should make a somalian hijacker exercise

struct: based on satelite image

MSmits: yeah, so your house is on there

sprkrd: Flight simulator 2020 simulates even real time weather

sprkrd: It even has integration with a training platform for ATC

sprkrd: So you get realistic dialog from ATC trainees

sprkrd: However it has a bad reputation regarding the gigantic size of the game (around 120GB I believe, and then you have to download 100GB more for the first update)

MSmits: ouch

struct: dont you also download stuff while playing?

sprkrd: real time satellite images, probably?

struct: I guess so

reCurse: Realistic visuals, small file size, pick one

sprkrd: and weather info

sprkrd: I think the bulk of the game is the map

sprkrd: I guess it downloads a default map for the whole world for when you're playing offline

sprkrd: Google Earth style

reCurse: If that's the main complaint the game is doing very fine

Westicles: about the same size as MS Word

ddreams: yeah, would be a nonissue for me

ddreams: assuming I'd be interested in flight sims

sprkrd: I don't think it's too bad either

sprkrd: But I'm not such a fan of planes either :joy:

Wontonimo: is there multiplayer where you have to coordinate landing at the same airport?

sprkrd: Yes

Wontonimo: nice

sprkrd: That's one of the selling points

KalamariKing: :o

KalamariKing: that sounds epic

sprkrd: You share airspace and airports with other pilots and with ATC trainees

Wontonimo: could also train as a ATC

sprkrd: if you play online, that is

sprkrd: But that was the case also in the previous FS

sprkrd: Except ATCs were mostly regular Doufus and Roufus, not serious ATC trainees

Wontonimo: compared to the cost of actual flight classes, it's a fantastic alternative

sprkrd: And there are more trolls

sprkrd: I mean, you should do both if you wanna fly real life :joy:

sprkrd: Otherwise you won't get your licence

Wontonimo: i've heard that US fighter pilots spend a lot of time in simulators vs real flights

Greg_3141: flight simulators are fun

sprkrd: For fighter planes there are better simulators than FS

AntiSquid: you doing kaggle ddreams ?

ddreams: not really

ddreams: you?

ddreams: mentored a young guy for that melanoma competition I mentioned earlier

ddreams: otherwise I've only been browsing them

KalamariKing: splix.io with hexagons?

KalamariKing: good idea for personal challenge or no

KalamariKing: I've never done too much game dev so is there something rather complex I just can't see

AntiSquid: ya that contest ended a long time ago ddreams

Westicles: Hexagons are passe. Now everyone is doing Pentakis Icosidodecahedrons

AntiSquid: 9 months ago ...

ddreams: It's a yearly competition

ddreams: afaik

AntiSquid: can't see any previous year's results: https://www.kaggle.com/c/siim-isic-melanoma-classification/discussion/173639 top postmortems

ddreams: hmm

ddreams: https://challenge.isic-archive.com/challenges

KalamariKing: Westicles would you rather I used 4-cell

ddreams: under leaderboards you can find the "manuscripts"

KalamariKing: 4-simplexes, sorry

AntiSquid: nvm this is 1st place solution: https://www.kaggle.com/c/siim-isic-melanoma-classification/discussion/175412 "shake up" is when reality hits you with extra validation data :D

Smelty: :( i dropped 300 ranks in CoC

KalamariKing: My rank dropped too, but only by a hundred or so A few dozen games later and we're back to 250ish

Default avatar.png Zimtime907: So sad:joy:

linjoehan: man I dropped to mater gonna go do some practice problems to get back up

ZarthaxX: linjoehan get that top 100!

Westicles: It will just decay again. A Sisyphean task

DarrenLachance: i'm so bad at coding

ddreams: Practice

DarrenLachance: thanks. I will keep going

KalamariKing: ddreams so inspirational

ddreams: Thanks :)

KalamariKing: you should look into motivational speaking

KalamariKing: get a 2-hr block, walk on stage and say "practice", and leave

ddreams: Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick?

KalamariKing: true

Uljahn: i guess your skill is proportional to the time invested, though you can try to cut corners with something like https://learnxinyminutes.com

ddreams: Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years Peter Norvig


ddreams: https://norvig.com/21-days.html

ddreams: I sometimes think about Norvig's sudoku solver and that unit testing guy's approach

ddreams: Ron Jeffries

ddreams: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3033446

KalamariKing: I don't think you can learn mips as fast as this says

KalamariKing: it doesn't give a timestamp per se but still

ddreams: Assembly is not so hard to learn, it's just incredibly tedious

KalamariKing: I kinda wanna learn assembly

Default avatar.png 1rre: I mean it depends, once you know C it's basically the same thing, and C isn't a huge step from C++/Rust, which isn't a huge step from Java etc

KalamariKing: Furbies ran something similar to 6502s so I wanna make my own furby

KalamariKing: That's the only reason, yep

ddreams: The best way to write anything big in assembly is to write it in C and then use the output as a starting point

Default avatar.png 1rre: Big brain learn assembly by writing your own compiler

KalamariKing: Thats actually pretty smart ddreams

KalamariKing: I was gonna say can't you compile a program and then use that

Default avatar.png 1rre: It depends how long it is, you don't wanna be trying to figure out millions of lines

ddreams: That's pretty smart, KalamariKing

ddreams: 1rre, you don't want to write millions of lines of assembly either

ddreams: and the C compiler can give you annotated output

KalamariKing: Ofc 1rre but if you wanna do something like tetris, wouldn't it be smarter to write it in something like C (without libs tho) and use that on a microchip

ddreams: It'd be smartest to choose a chip where a compiler exists :p

KalamariKing: True

ddreams: Learning some inline assembly is useful though

KalamariKing: But maybe I really wanna run the furby original source code on my ryzen 3600x

KalamariKing: Overclocked furbies anyone?

KalamariKing: what if you had to program everything from binary

KalamariKing: it's not that far from hex which isn't far from assembly

ddreams: then you'd first write an assembler

Default avatar.png aayux: ok

Default avatar.png aayux: yo whatsapp

KalamariKing: right but what if you didn't have a computer

KalamariKing: just a microprocessor to run everything and a rom to store it, plus some way to store individual bits in the rom

ddreams: then I guess I'm enjoying my vacation?

KalamariKing: and you had to code it all in binary

ddreams: reminds me of that story about Bill Gates

KalamariKing: wait did he actually

Default avatar.png 1rre: I thought it was linus torvalds but sure

ddreams: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07aU7DJiMws&t=162s

sprkrd: what, you wanna program in punchcards now?

sprkrd: you go this route you will end laying out the transistors yourself

sprkrd: I have some experience with PIC (the microcontrollers from Microchip). There's a compiler for that, and you can simulate it using proteus. Maybe you'd like to take a look at that :)

sprkrd: Programmable both in C and in asm

KalamariKing: that's it I'm running nes games on a furby

KalamariKing: nothing can stop me except a shortage of furbies in which case I'll make my own

sprkrd: then even a shortage of furbies won't stop you, right?

KalamariKing: exactly

KalamariKing: only a slight hinderance

sprkrd: which means you can cut your sentence before the except :joy:

KalamariKing: which means shut up

sprkrd: :O

KalamariKing: don't make me build a furby army

sprkrd: sheer determination and will

KalamariKing: idea: they're all controllable from one central hub

KalamariKing: thats literally an army of furbies this is beautiful

Default avatar.png onlyhuman: sup guys

Default avatar.png onlyhuman: this site's pretty cool :D

KalamariKing: I agree

Nerchio: I agree

sprkrd: onlyhuman that's what a bot would say :thinking:

Default avatar.png onlyhuman: I agree

Default avatar.png onlyhuman: :nerd:

KalamariKing: sounds like a bot to me

ddreams: everyone here is a bot, except you

KalamariKing: spooky

KalamariKing: interesting that a bot would want to talk of building a furby army with me

Default avatar.png starboy35442: im not a bot

Nerchio: if you were a bot how would you know

Default avatar.png starboy35442: idk

ddreams: brain in a vat

nitekat: I might be a bot

KalamariKing: how do any of us know

Default avatar.png starboy35442: idk

ddreams: cogito ergo sum

Default avatar.png starboy35442: ?

Scarfield: vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

ddreams: true dat

Default avatar.png starboy35442: what is happning

jacek: never run with scissors?

ddreams: Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur

KalamariKing: we're discussing philosophy

jacek: poor skotz, all alone in wood1 in volcanoes

KalamariKing: but I can't understand it so google translate is useful

KalamariKing: anyone here good with how to waste my money

ddreams: how much money are we talking about?

KalamariKing: 1. epic retro gaming collection 2. furby army

KalamariKing: not much but getting larger with every passing day

jacek: 3. bioengineering cat girls

KalamariKing: now we're thinking

Default avatar.png 1rre: 2 things I wish they had: Erlang The ability to run scala as scripts rather than having to have apps

KalamariKing: I really wanna build a centralized-intelligence furby hive-mind army though

KalamariKing: like cmon

Default avatar.png 1rre: ok but seriously why do we have to have "object Solution extends App", where we can't even rename solution, when Python don't have to have their function called something specific which is called from another file

KalamariKing: because python runs like crap with anything more than print("hello world")

Default avatar.png 1rre: Yeah I refuse to use it but for the shortest one's it's just such an uneven playing field

Default avatar.png 1rre: I just want my Erlang :'(

Default avatar.png 1rre: Tbh I'm actually just super grateful that the scala version they use is up to date here (ish, 1 minor version behind), you get so many places that run like decade old versions

jacek: they updated many languages recently

KalamariKing: why does 13.2/10 in python return 1.3199999999999

ddreams: floating point limitation

KalamariKing: thought so but why does that matter for such small numbers?

ddreams: it's not representable in binary

KalamariKing: hmm

KalamariKing: thanks

Default avatar.png 1rre: https://0.30000000000000004.com/

ddreams: like you cannot exactly express 1/3 as a decimal number with limited precision

yassine_Benlahbib: hi

KalamariKing: oh ok that makes sense thanks

KalamariKing: Hello yassine_Benlahbib!

DaringCheetah3967:

DaringCheetah3967:

DaringCheetah3967:

DaringCheetah3967:

DaringCheetah3967:

KalamariKing: can you don't

jacek: cant you do

Default avatar.png renoxlex: hi

RAWAN_REDDY: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/17807299faffdb0d23276f8ccf68b73d7b5f9da

jacek: oO

RAWAN_REDDY: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/17807508c7dc6f808e7f49b40ef4e9bf18e5006

ddreams: RAWAN_REDDY: post those in #clash

King_Coda: Why is there a delay when you get promoted to a new league

King_Coda: it says I won't be promoted to gold for another 53 minutes

jacek: to prevent server overload

King_Coda: Makes sense, but nobody plays hypersonic anymore

King_Coda: I would understand having to do that with the new competitions, but not old ones

wlesavo: to prevent cheaters to go to hypersonic legend in 10 minutes, it should take at least an hour. actually one of the reasons nobody plays hypersonic anymore

ddreams: what kind of cheaters?

wlesavo: copypaste

matjs: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/b700dd9f-f868-4139-9158-97fd4f1c4c94

King_Coda: is that... a rickroll?

MegaGirl: Hey guys, check out my coding game I've put on Youtube! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hQvTdS9g2E

King_Coda: Rick roll

jacek: :upside_down:

MegaGirl: :laughing::laughing: I got you guys!

MegaGirl: YO! I got kicked too!:laughing:

MegaGirl: Who here reads the webtoon Down To Earth?

King_Coda: I didn't click on the link, I just used the context of the situation to determine that it was a rick roll.

King_Coda: I didn't even think it was a rick roll

Default avatar.png Xascoria: hi

King_Coda: YAY, I'm being promoted into legend league!

KiwiTae: gz

Mast_: xascoria

Mast_: u are a chad

King_Coda: Why is that

cw477: Xascoria is def chad

King_Coda: k

Default avatar.png Xascoria: huh?

KiwiTae: King_Coda you went legend on hypersonic? is that the boomberman one?

King_Coda: Yes KiwiTae

cw477: Rocking faces in clash of code

King_Coda: I'm technically not getting promoted for another 4 hours and 2 minutes, but yes

King_Coda: I coded in C++

Default avatar.png Xascoria: yea im new in the game

struct: sure

reCurse: Which repository?

struct: same from the others

struct: he didnt even bother removing the message

jacek: ?

reCurse: Imagine being so insecure you need to lie about it

jacek: oh my

PatrickMcGinnisII: uh oh

struct: I usually say they are only fooling themselves

cw477: Then welcome man

MSmits: Sayonara!

reCurse: Farewell?

MSmits: thats one of them HS kimibot messages

reCurse: Oh

MSmits: i checked out some battles of Coda, indeed it's another clone

reCurse: I just trusted struct hehe

MSmits: yeah struct is pretty reliable

therealbeef: is that legal?

MSmits: no

reCurse: Legal sure

Default avatar.png Xascoria: i really like clash, been playing it a lot with my friends

reCurse: Pretending you wrote it, pathetic

Default avatar.png Xascoria: ?

Default avatar.png Xascoria: sorry?

struct: is not talking to you

Default avatar.png Xascoria: oh mb

MSmits: unless you're stealing bots too :P

MSmits: you know I took a serious look at kimi's code to see if i could use anything form there, but it made my head hurt

struct: the gold boss doesnt even work

struct: timeout turn 1

MSmits: HS gold?

struct: yes

MSmits: explains why legend got so big

MSmits: i remember it being 160 or so

struct: 500 now

MSmits: I guess gold boss broke due to some update

PatrickMcGinnisII: HS=hyperSonic?

MSmits: yes

PatrickMcGinnisII: lol, i got stuck in silver ... but I didn't put effort into it

MSmits: ahh yeah i have some multis like that

RoboStac: sounds like nows the time to reach gold for easy legend xp

reCurse: Still need top gold

MSmits: top gold is easy now

MSmits: the best gold bots are in legend

reCurse: Oh because of all the promotions, yeah

PatrickMcGinnisII: yea, ok.. find me a php bot worthy of copy/paste lol

reCurse: Ask King_Coda

RoboStac: if you submit enough all you have to do is survive to turn 2

RoboStac: eventually the boss will go negative

MSmits: emptying gold league?

PatrickMcGinnisII: hey King_Coda is there a php version on github? ;)

RoboStac: if it drops 13 more places saiksy will get promoted and wonder why

RoboStac: maybe it'll get fixed then

PatrickMcGinnisII: MSmits is like 6th...yea no complaints there. ;)

MSmits: it's a bit random, my bot is on par with Robo's

MSmits: i did thousands of CG bench :P

PatrickMcGinnisII: new volcanoes game isn't that fun to code. :(

PatrickMcGinnisII: sry

jacek: oO

jacek: maybe theres code on repo

MSmits: PatrickMcGinnisII is not a repo man

PatrickMcGinnisII: :champagne_glass:

PatrickMcGinnisII: lol jacek

jacek: i see. at my work php guys use svn while everyone else are git

MSmits: php-eople are contrary :P

jacek: ahh theres only wood3 boss there

KiwiTae: >< we use svn at my job too

PatrickMcGinnisII: is that like docker?

PatrickMcGinnisII: I fired my helpers yesterday, so now I'm burnt out from remodeling a house today. Little basterds making me work hard.

KiwiTae: nah docker is virtual machine, svn is version control

PatrickMcGinnisII: ok tx KiwiTae, leaning sumtin everyday

MSmits: I finally learned how to do an index function for oware so i dont need to hash states

PatrickMcGinnisII: oh god, i adjusted my monitor... the cat saw me...gotta hide

MSmits: why are you afraid of your cat

reCurse: Why wouldn't he

MSmits: good point. But cats are varied. There are many reasons one can be afraid of them

jacek: give him some toxoplasmosis then

MSmits: oO

PatrickMcGinnisII: ok, gave the cat the <3... damn keyboard pirate

MSmits: damn... looking up by hash is really slow isn't it? I replaced my unordered set with a pretty complex index function, but the whole endgame book generator is over twice as fast

MSmits: the index function includes a loop and 12 array lookups

MSmits: to replace 1 unordered set call

PatrickMcGinnisII: There's a bin drop hash, damn i ferget the name ... yea using a linear index should speed it up like 10x

MSmits: i think it is more than 10x in this case. It is also a lot more memory efficient. I was using an unordered set to look up an array index

struct: did you add stuff to unordered_map?

struct: or just at the start?

MSmits: not just at the start

MSmits: all the time

struct: yeah its normal that is slow

MSmits: I needed to store where in my array a state was located

struct: I was reading the other day about it

MSmits: I knew that it was slow... I just didnt know it was *this* slow

PatrickMcGinnisII: u guys r always pushing the envelope

MSmits: speaking of pushing the envelope, i also found a way to make my process use more than 2 GB RAM

struct: ok so when the map reaches a certain threshold, the number of buckets increase and map gets hashed again

MSmits: I guess vectors can go beyond it

Default avatar.png Azna: Hello

RoboStac: were you compiling for 32bit?

MSmits: no

MSmits: but array declarations could not go beyond 32 bit anyways

MSmits: vector<uint64_t> states(2000000000);

MSmits: this worked though

MSmits: uint64_t states[2000000000] does not

Default avatar.png Azna: Is anyone here good with matrixes and queues xD? (char[,]) c#?

RoboStac: that would be 16gb?

MSmits: yeah somewhere around that

MSmits: i started process and saw it use something like 19 gb

RoboStac: thats somewhat different to 2gb :)

MSmits: yeah :)

MSmits: I need this process for the retrograde analysis for making engame books

MSmits: writing to HD is wayyyy too slow

MSmits: otherwise 15 seeds for oware is the max, with this i can go over 31 and only be limited by calc time

MSmits: well no not exactly, i also dropped the 200 turn thing, otherwise it would be like 22 seeds

PatrickMcGinnisII: KiwiTae is making me want to shoot bugs in my house with lasers and tensorflow AI

MSmits: did you name your cat KiwiTae ? Or otherwise I am missing something

PatrickMcGinnisII: I'm making a funny, but I would seriously like to play with his toys to shoot bugs with tho. Mosquito season and all

KiwiTae: :joy:

Chainman: konnichiwa

MSmits: sounds like something King_Coda's bot would say

jacek: omae wa mou shindeiru

PatrickMcGinnisII: Omae wa mou shindeiru¨

PatrickMcGinnisII: oops

PatrickMcGinnisII: Anata wa shinitaidesu ka?

cw477: What are your favorite websites for dev jobs besides glassdoor/dice/indeed?

ddreams: CG clearly :p

ddreams: finn.no here in Norway

cw477: very cool

AstroHydes: Try any job site but contact the employer directly if you can. Sets you apart from the flood from the website ads.

AstroHydes: Oof. Replying to old messages.

ddreams: why the alt?

AstroHydes: hehe, just the browser I was in

AstroHydes: One has one account and the others have the other

AstroHydes: No other reason

PatrickMcGinnisII: One is a Byter, be careful

AstroHydes: Or if you mean the reason *for* the alt, I believe the description is clear

AstroHydes: hey Patrick

ddreams: yeah, just wondered if there was some reason for it now

PatrickMcGinnisII: :tumbler_glass:

AstroHydes: Nah, was listening to some livestream music on youtube and just logged in here for convenience

AstroHydes: Anyways, will catch up properly later. Things to see and people to do and all that.

ddreams: Ciao

Default avatar.png SupercraftD: hey guys, do u know if I can somehow download the clash of code image with the like two people fighting with the laptops ylnow?

struct: https://static-aznet.codingame.com/assets/background_clash_of_code.18769c43.jpg

Default avatar.png SupercraftD: wow! thanks!

Default avatar.png nightmarex: haiii everyone :)

7-4: sexy

Smelty: went from 1200 to 1600 in CoC :(

Default avatar.png MrFruit: rip

IlluBlack: Im knew and I would like to know if there's a way to practice the code for a clash of code that I could not make, I did not know lot of things,, so I studied some concepts and now want to try to solve the same problem, but I don't know where

IlluBlack: I'm new*


Default avatar.png NotSureWhyThisWorks: https://eulerschezahl.herokuapp.com/codingame/puzzles/

Default avatar.png NotSureWhyThisWorks: IlluBlack you can use this website to search for all of the clash of code puzzles

Default avatar.png NotSureWhyThisWorks: If you find the puzzle you wanted to practice, click "view contribution on codingame" and it will take you to the codingame website and click "test in IDE" and you can practice the puzzle