Chat:World/2021-05-24

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struct: np YurkovAS glad to help

struct: 1k is how much % gain? YurkovAS

AntiSquid: i feel like you just need more ifs not rollouts

Wontonimo: I gained a few ranks in SC2021 since the competition without doing anything. Odd.

YurkovAS: struct in local only tested, wins: left=54%, right=57%. 4+ hours i'm find bugs :)

Astrobytes: Hello

YurkovAS: hi

Default avatar.png joessir: hi

yassine_Benlahbib: hi

Default avatar.png NRTnarathipTH: Hello world

Default avatar.png MMJR: this is a pretty neat website, are they using an embedded visual studio for it?

therealbeef: something like that i think

actualCoderTrevor: MMJR I believe it's ace https://github.com/ajaxorg/ace

Astrobytes: It's Monaco https://github.com/microsoft/monaco-editor

actualCoderTrevor: Oh I stand corrected

Default avatar.png MMJR: Interesting i may have to check it out for another project i am doing

Default avatar.png Ilovepypypy: how to play spring challenge 2021

souta_1326: https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming/spring-challenge-2021

Default avatar.png Ilovepypypy: thx

Default avatar.png Ilovepypypy: but i dont know how to def the action...i am new

KornDV: clash reverse

KornDV: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/1770446b6f6b622b210810e1731661661c058fe

KornDV: shortest

derjack: good morning

Default avatar.png Abugalis: Creeper

Default avatar.png Abugalis: Aww man

Default avatar.png Abugalis: Dead chat

Default avatar.png Abugalis: Disapointed

Default avatar.png Abugalis: ...

Girlgaming: hi

Default avatar.png Mai-Lapyst: hi

Default avatar.png BoBot: Hey BoBot,

You have been promoted to Legend League at Fantastic Bits!

Default avatar.png BoBot: haha wat :D

Default avatar.png BoBot: haven't heard that name in a while

aCat: nice, congratz ;]

Default avatar.png BoBot: leaderboard flux? :D is that game like...2 years old?

Default avatar.png BoBot: have not touched it meanwhile

derjack: see? you dont need to do anything to promote, just wait some time. ezpz

Default avatar.png BoBot: haha over 4 years ago

Default avatar.png BoBot: omg, seems less time ago...time flies

XprophEtX: guys, can u tell me how I can read the game options (like current seed) in my code? are thos env variables?

aCat: no you cant

XprophEtX: oh ok, thanks!

Sooran: Everyone, is Kotlin working properly?

derjack: hmm there were some issues over the weekend

Sooran: Problems solved by kotlin do not pass the validator.:rage:

RoboStac: yeah, thibaud said they were still looking at kotlin issues on discored

RoboStac: the latest version is causing a lot of problems

Notter: Why do I keep disconnecting at random intervals?

Westicles: The update seems to have broken my c# golfs

Westicles: Unhandled exception. System.ComponentModel.Win32Exception (2): No such file or directory at System.Diagnostics.Process.ForkAndExecProcess at System.Diagnostics.Process.StartCore at System.Diagnostics.Process.Start

Westicles: Seems that ruby -e no longer works unless you put the whole path /usr/local/bin/ruby. Actually takes a little bit of the cheat out of golf, which is good

Westicles: Does golf ever get recalculated?

struct: I think it happened before

KalamariKing: What was the ruby trick?

Westicles: Run ruby from other languages

KalamariKing: Why would you want that

struct: for codegolf

struct: there is per language rating

KalamariKing: Oh ok

KalamariKing: Also is there a limit or smth on JavaScript exponents? on a clash where the answer is the input squared, JavaScript users are failing one of the tests (specifically the 'crash test')

RoboStac: javascript doesn't have ints so uses doubles for calculation by default (won't be accurate above 2**53)

KalamariKing: Ah ok thanks

Notter: Why do I keep getting disconnected at random intervals?

struct: Can it be your connection?

Default avatar.png Neglokit: i can't do any of the puzzles

Default avatar.png Neglokit: where is a good place to start

Default avatar.png Neglokit: for a beginner

KalamariKing: Well what language do you wanna start with

KalamariKing: I like clashes, personally

KalamariKing: btw

struct: clashes are not the place to start

struct: Neglokit this site is not meant for beginners

struct: you need a little bit of experience

KalamariKing: Oh lol that's where I started, but yeah its not for learning or anything

Default avatar.png Neglokit: o

Default avatar.png Neglokit: i'm leaning python 3

Default avatar.png Neglokit: learning

KalamariKing: Python is popular, there's plenty of tutorials and learning experiences online

struct: https://wiki.python.org/moin/BeginnersGuide/Programmers

Default avatar.png Neglokit: where do you recommend for a free tutorial

Default avatar.png Neglokit: but in depth

Default avatar.png Neglokit: nvm

Default avatar.png Neglokit: ty struct

struct: yw

Notter: Is Java good?

Mai-Lapyst: how do you define "good"? in terms of syntax, ecosystem, speed, portability...

KalamariKing: Notter it all depends on what you want to do

KalamariKing: Ik, bad answer, but its true

Notter: The More You Know

yassine_Benlahbib: hi

Notter: Hello

Luj8n: No, Java is bad (:

derjack: kree java!

yassine_Benlahbib: you should try C

Notter: Strings in C are confusing

yassine_Benlahbib: that's the point

yassine_Benlahbib: strings in python are waaay easier

Luj8n: bruh, there are no strings in C

yassine_Benlahbib: i told you you should try C

Mai-Lapyst: i like C strings. they are fairly simple once you wrap your had around it. and very powerfull to, like builtin string view support

Mai-Lapyst: *head

Default avatar.png AndersE: Every language are good if used in the right context. Don't say a language is good or bad. Look at the problem and the environment it has to be in.

Luj8n: Java is bad in every way :)

Mai-Lapyst: but its still the most protable language on the planet

Mai-Lapyst: java runs literally on coffeemachines

Luj8n: but jokes aside, any language is good if you know how to use it

Notter: I'm currently trying to get the hang of python classes and objects

Default avatar.png AndersE: And I have been programming for over 30 years. Language is now only a way to express oneself. And all languages has its own advantages and disadvantages.

dreadylein: agree, except perl because doh :D

KalamariKing: perl is gross

Default avatar.png AndersE: Haha, that one is sort of true. You can write readable code in perl, but people tend to write as "fancy and short" code as possible that no one can understand.

Greg_3141: It's fun to hate on Java but at the end of the day it's a solid language for large projects

aCat: someoune asked for C#?

BlaiseEbuth: Wowow! Too much troll on this chan...

aCat: *someone

AntiSquid: that's why some companies are rewriting their apps in Kotlin, because it works even better

derjack: kotlin is just another lang for jvm :thinking:

KalamariKing: What are the major differences between kotlin and java

KalamariKing: to me, there doesn't seem to be much

KalamariKing: or maybe I'm blending c#/java/js/etc into one pseudo-syntax and kotlin is too similar... idk

Greg_3141: kotlin doesn't try to look like C

derjack: kotlin is most present in android where youre stuck on java7 or pseudo java8

KalamariKing: So its like a faster/modernized java

Greg_3141: honestly though, if you're going to use Kotlin instead of Java, why not just go directly to Scala?

KalamariKing: java-lite

BlaiseEbuth: Comparing attentively two turds, you can find differences. But at the end it's just shit...

Default avatar.png AndersE: Didn't do anything with Java for over 5 years. Now thrown in into project that make use of Java RX. Any thoughts on Java RX. Ok, it's a framework, but a completely different way to do things.

derjack: there is quite a trend to make oop lannguages more functional

Default avatar.png AndersE: Agree

Greg_3141: there's not much wrong with Java, surprisingly enough it's usable even for high performance code

BlaiseEbuth: What a mess... If you want to do functional, use a real functional language...

Darkboy: Im still in Bash

BlaiseEbuth: Greg is a high performance troll :p

Greg_3141: nothing wrong with having multiple paradigms

BlaiseEbuth: Medium everywhere, good nowhere...

AntiSquid: the syntax is quite different too

Greg_3141: And yet lots of competent programmers choose it

AntiSquid: KalamariKing how the hell can you confuse c# java and js ???

KalamariKing: my guy

KalamariKing: its been a while

AntiSquid: JS is more straight forward

AntiSquid: and C# has its own magic

Greg_3141: confusing c# and java is forgivable, you can copy paste code from one to the other with very minor modifications

AntiSquid: diff libs for both, depends on project

KalamariKing: by now its all just one large clusterf*ck of characters

AntiSquid: what are you usually doing Greg_3141 ?

Greg_3141: hobby shit

BlaiseEbuth: Gold league with depth1 search

Greg_3141: yes

AntiSquid: hah ok do Fall Challenge 2020 with depth1 search and get gold, would like to see :D

AntiSquid: is UTTT gold doable with depth1 search ?

BlaiseEbuth: Don't know. Perhaps with one or two ifs.

Greg_3141: maybe if you had a good heuristic function?

KalamariKing: Is something wrong with cg rn?

KalamariKing: Running code returns "oops a system error has occurred" and I'm not sure if thats specific to this game of not

KalamariKing: or*

Greg_3141: doesn't happen for me

StevensGino: I think it is your code's problem

KalamariKing: Everyone in this clash has the same problem

Greg_3141: I don't care that much about CoC so idk

StevensGino: which language should I learn for CoC ?

Greg_3141: python probably

StevensGino: currently I know C++/Java

StevensGino: thanks

Greg_3141: python is good for writing code quickly, but there might be an even better language for CoC

AntiSquid: but CoC isn't a life goal

BlaiseEbuth: Even not a goal...

StevensGino: yes, I just play CoC to relax

Default avatar.png MrFruit: I am getting a "Oops... a system error has occurred!"

StevensGino: or wram up

Default avatar.png MrFruit: And seems like everyone in my clash as well

Default avatar.png MrFruit: Arrr, its gone now.

KalamariKing: Do clashes get re-evalled

StevensGino: btw, is there any advantage on Rust over C++ for bot programming contest?

Greg_3141: yeah, let me write it up

Notter: Why can't I face my bot against itself?

Greg_3141: You can

Mai-Lapyst: @StevensGino one big advantage is you dont have to worry about lifetime's and scopes. malloc() rules, but it can also very fast produce segfaults...

Greg_3141: A nice thing about Rust is how you can easily represent several different types of moves with an enum.

StevensGino: thank you two

Greg_3141: You can also iterate over moves more easily because Rust has better support for iterators and closures iirc

therealbeef: that sounds like features C++ has too :-/

Mai-Lapyst: yes thats true, c has no real support for iterators. c++ has

casmith789: C++ is a great generalist language, you will be able to do everything you want in C++. But the syntax might be a little clunky so it will just be ease of use other languages have over it

Greg_3141: In Rust, you can easily build up a complex iterator from several more basic iterators using map() and chain()

StevensGino: I already know C++ (not really master it), I just hesitate should I learn Rust for bot programming

Greg_3141: and other iterator functions as needed

casmith789: I would say learn it if you find it interesting

Greg_3141: pattern matching in Rust is really nice for simplifying casework (think different types of moves in a game)

StevensGino: thank you all, learning a new programming language is always satisfying

StevensGino: so I will learn Rust

derjack: :scream:

Default avatar.png CodeLoverboy: Hello!

Greg_3141: hello

Default avatar.png CodeLoverboy: Is there any way you can make your own game?

Greg_3141: yeah

derjack: codingame sdk?

MSmits: CodeLoverboy i would not recommend creating your own game here if you havent created a few good bots first.

MSmits: Not every game is a good bot game

MSmits: unless you're straight up porting something that's known to be a good bot game

MSmits: (like a classic)

derjack: :soccer:

MSmits: like paper soccer yes :P

MSmits: why is pony upside down?

derjack: maybe hes in australia :upside_down:

MSmits: I see, makes sense

Default avatar.png CodeLoverboy: who?


MSmits: derjack

MSmits: he wasnt upside down before

Default avatar.png CodeLoverboy: in alustalia?


MSmits: no, australia

Default avatar.png CodeLoverboy: ok

MSmits: people in alustalia aren't upside down

Default avatar.png CodeLoverboy: grammaly

Default avatar.png CodeLoverboy: jk

Default avatar.png CodeLoverboy: im just joking around

MSmits: go tit

MSmits: got it

Default avatar.png Mobilex1122: hi

StevensGino: is there any CPs on solving community problem?

struct: no

StevensGino: thanks

BlaiseEbuth: On puzzles, comunity or not.

MSmits: StevensGino the idea is that stuff that is competitive gives cp

BlaiseEbuth: ^

MSmits: should be called competition points tbh

StevensGino: so if it is community competive, should I have CPs?

derjack: or something not c* points, the abbreviation is meh

derjack: depends if you want to be competetive

MSmits: StevensGino yes mostly, you could consider solving puzzles competitive, but it's not really.

StevensGino: for example :

StevensGino: https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming/chess/leaderboard

MSmits: yeah thats cp worthy

StevensGino: can I have CPs for this?

derjack: yes

StevensGino: thank you all :)

BlaiseEbuth: Of course not MSmits, that would not be representative of 95% of the community...

MSmits: but not an easy way to get many points because botgames with < 500 players have a reduced cp maximum

derjack: but youll get more CPs from more popular games and if youre higher in leagues

MSmits: also those small population games have a higher fraction of hard core botters

StevensGino: thanks, I didn't even think of it

MSmits: btw, did not understand what you meant there BlaiseEbuth

BlaiseEbuth: MSmits 03:37PM should be called competition points tbh

MSmits: mmh i meant that "coding" could be anything on this site, so calling it coding points is misleading

MSmits: it's all coding

MSmits: solving a puzzle is coding too

BlaiseEbuth: I know, just trolling. :3

MSmits: ahh ok

derjack:

MSmits: i think the experience points could rightly be called coding points

MSmits: because everything gives experience

MSmits: though community multies give very little

BlaiseEbuth: Hmm. Xp is not misleading, and is a classic designation for this kind of points.

BlaiseEbuth: But I agree on coding points.

MSmits: yeah thats true. it's not misleading

MSmits: but you could call it coding points and it would still not be misleading

BlaiseEbuth: Right.

BlaiseEbuth: But if (in an alternative world) a change was made on the CP name, renaming XP -> CP will be misleading.

MSmits: true

Uljahn: practice points and competition points seems clear though

MSmits: yeah

Default avatar.png Breem: Hey guys

MSmits: it's weird that re curse made the chess multi, but his bot is not on there. For a community multi it's not doing badly with 102 submissions. It's not easy to write a bot for it

reCurse: It's not weird, I told you why :P

MSmits: is this because you are afraid of being sucked into the black hole that is chess?

reCurse: Yes

MSmits: ah ok, i remember now

MSmits: well then it is weird that you created the multi :P

reCurse: Hm

MSmits: though if you did it to do the CG community a favor, then thats a good reason

reCurse: I'd say my hobbies are weird so there's that

MSmits: sure that's fine too :P

reCurse: I think I wanted to do at least one contribution

MSmits: ah, good choice then

reCurse: I often get those urges to try things at least once

reCurse: I also had my half-finished game that would take too much effort to complete

reCurse: Chess is super easy in comparison

MSmits: this was a game that was supposed to become a contest, like what euler did?

reCurse: Streaming was such a completely impulsive case

reCurse: I think it would have made a very fine contest yes

reCurse: I wanted that to be a motivation to finish it

reCurse: And well...

MSmits: ah, too bad

reCurse: Now even without the drama I'm not sure CG would have wanted that

reCurse: But shrug

MSmits: there is usually a risk to creating new things

reCurse: It was an almost frame perfect Puyo Puyo Tsu clone in case you wonder

MSmits: ohh

MSmits: struct would have loved that

reCurse: I'd have called it "Smash Tsu Code" hehe

MSmits: I'm working on a simple TTT implementation to practice ML on. This is like my 4th completely new implementation of TTT in python. There's a ridiculous number of ways to do this

reCurse: I still think TTT is a bad test bed

MSmits: yeah, you might be right, but it doesnt have to work well, just as to work so i have some familiar thing to work with

MSmits: i'm matching ply 1 state to ply 0 state as a target

derjack: admit it, you created chess to complete quest map

reCurse: There's a quest for making a multi?

struct: The person could drop a piece per frame?

reCurse: Not necessarily

MSmits: reCurse probably a quest for community contribution in general

MSmits: could be a puzzle

reCurse: I did frame counting of all actions

derjack: or clash

reCurse: So the frame at which you can drop a piece, the bot gets a turn

reCurse: So you could get multiple turns in a row if the opponent is completing a long chain

reCurse: The game's whole balance is around that idea

struct: I see, I can understand why you abandoned it

reCurse: It was motivation before difficulty

struct: yeah

struct: Knowing it will just be another multi with < 100 players is harsh

derjack: yinsh got a little boost being potw

derjack: during contest

reCurse: And knowing CG attracts quite a few players from Japan, I'm sure they'd be all over it

reCurse: It's a popular game over there

reCurse: That's where the best players in the world are mostly

derjack: othello is pretty popular in japan no?

reCurse: True, at some point in history at least, maybe still now, I don't know

reCurse: Too many projects not enough time as usual

reCurse: Just talking about it now I want to work on it eh, but it's pointless

ljwoodward: People who win clashes and don't share their code are the worst people

reCurse: Ok

MSmits: I'm a worst people :(

MSmits: wait no i'm not

MSmits: i don't win

MSmits: wew

1457162: :-D

derjack: https://i.imgur.com/PAaU2Bw.png

JFB: True :-)

MSmits: haha

BlaiseEbuth: "I killed a man. And you?" "I play clashs of code."

Default avatar.png Srijandev: lol

ljwoodward: Exactly, I'm glad you understand

reCurse: I'd say feeling entitled to someone's code is the worst, but /shrug

MSmits: https://imgflip.com/i/5aqv1d

reCurse: Geez you got this template automated now

MSmits: it's easy :)

MSmits: as is making a simple ttt implementation. I didn't realize how much of the code of my previous ones was about the interface of making it human-playable

MSmits: whats left is like 30 lines or so

struct: grats on rank 2 YurkovAS

MSmits: which game?

MSmits: contest game?

struct: sc21

MSmits: ohh, gj YurkovAS

MSmits: it always surprises me that people can continue to play a game after contest. I am always burned out on it by that point

struct: maybe I jinxed it :/

YurkovAS: thanks!

KalamariKing: MSmits yeah same

KalamariKing: some people just don't get burned out ig

MSmits: I guess so, and in that case, the PM thread does provide a load of ideas to try

reCurse: 10 days isn't that long :P

MSmits: in general it's not, but you're playing a game you didn't choose yourself. I can work with a game for months if it fascinates me.

reCurse: Why not both

MSmits: I just mean it's unlikely for a contest-game to be interesting to me in the long term. This one was better than most in that regard, but I like simple boardgames better

struct: I enjoy the game as long as it doesnt have hidden info

MSmits: i dont like hidden info either, except with ooc, because it was a major feature there

struct: or 10 pages of furles

struct: ooc it makes sense yes

MSmits: furles?

struct: rules*

struct: :D

MSmits: I was thinking of a book full of furry creaturs

Wiilss: same

struct: unleash the geek hidden info also makes sense

MSmits: kind of, but it's more important in ooc

reCurse: Oh boy ooc, I can't stop thinking about how to search

reCurse: Got some ideas but it's gonna take a while to get started

Default avatar.png Illusive: same me 1 week pro

struct: I think its one of the hardest games to get started

struct: imo

reCurse: Well I can reuse bitboard from coif so there's that

Wiilss: ""

MSmits: yeah, the wood bosses were ridiculous

MSmits: at first

MSmits: then they made them weaker

MSmits: I use several different bitboard for ooc

MSmits: int16 for position, int32 for mines and int64 for damage

reCurse: Search is going to take a lot of iterations to be good though I think

reCurse: And 50ms

reCurse: This is tough

MSmits: yep

WolfDarrigan: I'm near the top of silver in ooc, but my code is horribly inefficient

MSmits: can always make it more efficient

MSmits: if you want

WolfDarrigan: My bot is more about memory and time management than about any strategy for the game :sweat_smile:

MSmits: mine too

MSmits: i didnt get around to experimenting with heuristics

MSmits: well, only a little bit

MSmits: i did only use half the contest time though, had two breaks in that month. Probably could have done better

MSmits: month is too long to keep my interest

WolfDarrigan: I started to go down a rabbit hole of detecting choke points that would be good to mine, but got stuck on "should the edge of the board count as terrain" because it was putting mines in what I'd consider dumb places

WolfDarrigan: never got that working, so it is just commented out

MSmits: ah, my bots are always full of commented out stuff that didnt work :)

VizGhar: jave is extremely verbose language

struct: im trying to pick between WW and HS

VizGhar: oh :D i've seen some old discussion

VizGhar: sorry for random post

struct: ww max size seems to be 7x7

ZarthaxX: struct headache in both

ZarthaxX: yep

ZarthaxX: i hardcoded that 7 in my loops, a bug that lasted one year

ZarthaxX: :)

struct: my ww currently is depth 1 currently

ZarthaxX: and costed me tshirt prob

struct: unlucky zarthax

struct: your current WW bot is broken ZarthaxX

struct: also euler bot

ZarthaxX: wat

struct: your bot is broken

struct: Timeout turn 1

ZarthaxX: ffs lemme check

ZarthaxX: ty for that

struct: np

ZarthaxX: ok idk why

MSmits: is it C#?

MSmits: because C# had an update

MSmits: breaking some botds

ZarthaxX: nope

MSmits: ah i just figured because eulers is also broken

struct: no error?

ZarthaxX: not getting compilatiopn errors

ZarthaxX: :(

ZarthaxX: it doesnt return from a function

ZarthaxX: :D

ZarthaxX: literally when it has to return it dies

ZarthaxX: how can this break from nowhere

ZarthaxX: :(

Greg_3141: Just got my first puzzle contribution to WIP status: https://www.codingame.com/contribute/view/67880dcf02f0f5e4d467c5a465b9854d5b5d Feel free to leave feedback

Coelurus: Hello my programming n1bbas

eulerscheZahl: what a great time to open the chat

struct: hi euler

struct: your ww bot is broken get your points back

eulerscheZahl: it was at the bottom of the league before that already

struct: ah

eulerscheZahl: in fact it's not broken, just bad :(

Default avatar.png Illusive: world chat be like

Wiilss: worlde

Default avatar.png Ablert: E

Default avatar.png Illusive: #include <worldchat>

eulerscheZahl: btw ZarthaxX i'll take the dice assets if I can get some. If I use a toggle to switch between current and other model, it's fine to have a less detailed replacement

ZarthaxX: oh okey

ZarthaxX: i guess we would need to test up to which point is ok

ZarthaxX: like acceptable loss of details

eulerscheZahl: maybe: rounded edges (also because of rolling animation which assumes some radius) but flat eyes

ZarthaxX: oh flat eyes would make it possible i think

Default avatar.png Ablert: E

ZarthaxX: so round edges is a must

eulerscheZahl: not a must. but nice to have

ZarthaxX: i meant that it would look weird in the animation haha

TheBatMan_TM: hey guys what's the online replacement for Postman?

eulerscheZahl: and as the game is approved already: the arrangement of the sides should match with the existing model of course :D

ZarthaxX: right

eulerscheZahl: email @TheBatMan_TM

TheBatMan_TM: what?

TheBatMan_TM: no i mean Postman the API tester

Default avatar.png Illusive: yo my slime

Wiilss: #include

eulerscheZahl: why do you need a replacement for it?

Default avatar.png Illusive: yo my drilla

eulerscheZahl: i think i should kick

Default avatar.png Illusive: what

Wiilss: i speak british

TheBatMan_TM: eulerscheZahl coz i can't download it locally, i need online

Default avatar.png Illusive: do you man speak american or british

Xerock: hl

TheBatMan_TM: which is the best online API tester?

TheBatMan_TM: as a replacement to Postman

reCurse: Nostalgia

eulerscheZahl: i got your question now. never saw the need to try it with an online tool

jacek: if you give sides in input, they can be changed, right?

KalamariKing: what

KalamariKing: elaborate

Default avatar.png Ablert: #E

MSmits: mmh i am seeing the problem with converting xor example to a more general case if you're not using numpy :P

MSmits: more loops within loops because you dont have just 2 inputs :)

Default avatar.png Ablert: #h

Default avatar.png Ablert: #e

Default avatar.png Ablert: #l

Default avatar.png Ablert: #l

Default avatar.png Ablert: #o

KalamariKing: you're gonna get kicked :eyes:

Default avatar.png Ablert: E

ErrorCookie: #whatsthis

jacek: MSmits you cant generalize well?

MSmits: no i mean, if you take your xor example, it splits into two arrays i1 and i2 for the two parts of each input

MSmits: but were you to do this for TTT, for example, you cant do it this way

MSmits: because input has way more parts

jacek: oh right inputs number is hardcoded

MSmits: so it really turns into matrix-work then

jacek: well just anoter dim in array

MSmits: yeah it's fine, i'll generalize to multiple dimensions and try to get it working without numpu

MSmits: numpy

MSmits: then i'll transform it to a numpy version

MSmits: then tensorflow

KalamariKing: thats like

KalamariKing: a lot of transformations

MSmits: it's a learning exercise

MSmits: i dont know numpy and i dont know tensorflow

KalamariKing: tensorflow isn't made for numpy btw, internally it copies it all to another tensor

KalamariKing: so use tf.data

Default avatar.png tiabeanie: hello

MSmits: allright I'll try to remember. It's fine if i get stuck on this later, thats how you learn

Default avatar.png tiabeanie: how is everyone

MSmits: I is good

MSmits: you?

jacek: if NN is stuck, this is how it doesnt learn tho

MSmits: i mean me :P

KalamariKing: I used to work with tf a lot, it takes a good few seconds with a large enough numpy dataset

MSmits: what does?

KalamariKing: predicting

MSmits: because of the internal conversion of the data?

KalamariKing: yeah

MSmits: ah ok

KalamariKing: tf.data is a little harder, since it doesn't have ALL the internal commands, but it too is c++ so is equally fast for converting

KalamariKing: its just MUCH faster for predicting

scareware047: won't it cache the dataset

KalamariKing: Yes and no

KalamariKing: When predicting, you're feeding it data it (usually) hasn't seen before

scareware047: alright nvm I work in cv I was mostly my own pipeline ;d

KalamariKing: lol its fine

MSmits: yay, converted to N dimensional inputs :)

MSmits: works

KalamariKing: is tensorflow on cg?

jacek: :tada:

jacek: no

KalamariKing: oh lol

KalamariKing: MSmits are you pushing the nn to cg? if so how

MSmits: no, you train a model, build a c++ inferer and put your weights in a massive string that you decode in the first 1 second

KalamariKing: yeah that's what I thought

MSmits: eventually, i will, see above statement

MSmits: for now, just practicing

KalamariKing: yeah

MSmits: trying to do a simple NN that learns to play TTT from playing games with itself

KalamariKing: ooh sounds like fun

MSmits: I'm doing ply 1 search and matching ply 1 value as target (negated) to root value

MSmits: so root is input, ply 1 result is target

KalamariKing: interesting

KalamariKing: are you using a large nn?

MSmits: since endgames are exact, doing enough passes should teach it to play perfectly

MSmits: i am not using anything yet

MSmits: i made a TT implementation and generalized xor example to N dimensions

MSmits: TTT

KalamariKing: oh I see

MSmits: now i need to combine them

MSmits: no idea how many neurons i will need

MSmits: i use 1 hidden layer for now

MSmits: hardcoded

KalamariKing: that's the thing, neuron counts are difficult

MSmits: it's easy to experiment because training should not take forever

KalamariKing: one-hot i/o, i presume?

MSmits: i can do that, but i am doing a -1,0,1 input first

MSmits: might be bad, i dunno

KalamariKing: For x, o, _?

KalamariKing: interesting indeed

MSmits: yes

MSmits: because it is so simple, i can experiment by comparing one hot with the other thing

KalamariKing: can your backprop func handle negatives? sigmoid (I think) can only take 0-1

MSmits: apparently in oware, robo and jace k are using one hot, but Robo also effectively used whole seedcounts as input

MSmits: KalamariKing you mean negative output right?

MSmits: I can transform -1 to 1 to a [0,1] interval

KalamariKing: I believe negative all around

MSmits: to avoid negative output

MSmits: so a loss is 0

KalamariKing: Transforming is easy

MSmits: draw - 0.5

jacek: hm?

jacek: yeah, match your data to your output

MSmits: how do you mean jacek

jacek: if sigmoid then 0, 0.5, 1. if tanh then -1, 0, 1

KalamariKing: yeah that

MSmits: oh you mean my last activation should be tanh

jacek: could be. i mean you need to adjust your target, thats all

MSmits: do you mean i can either change the interval for my target or change my activation function as long as they match?

KalamariKing: I presume you're not looking more than the current move into the future?

jacek: yes

MSmits: I am just trying all possible moves yes

MSmits: the reason for that is that the game is too easily solvable. If i searched further then it would just be a minimax

jrke: how many input you are taking MS?

MSmits: for now just 9 cells

MSmits: with -1,0,1

MSmits: but with onehot that would be 27

jrke: i thinking to train first simple tictactoe NN

MSmits: reCurs e says TTT is not the best trainign example

jrke: with 9 cells 3*3 and same like yours -1 for opp 0 for none and 1 for me

jacek: he has grudge against uttt

MSmits: I think I've read enough about the subject that it doesnt really matter if i pick this, not sure where you are at jrke

jacek: i think

MSmits: well he does at that, but this is TTT :)

MSmits: jrke then we are doing the same thing i guess

jrke: i am not doing UTTT am trying to do for TTT

MSmits: yes, same

jrke: oh

MSmits: just practice

MSmits: i already learned python is extremely annoying because of having to put "self" everywhere

jrke: so do you expect output a value or move

MSmits: value

MSmits: but move is fine

MSmits: depends on what you want to practice

MSmits: move could be cool actually, more meaningful output is good for practicing

jrke: so you have 9 neurons + bias

MSmits: no, 9 inputweights + bias

MSmits: no idea how many neurons

MSmits: will maybe try starting at 100 or something

MSmits: i assume you mean hidden neurons

jrke: yes

MSmits: yes, then it can be any number. The more you have, the more information/patterns can be encoded

MSmits: not sure what happens if you have too many, your NN will become slower to use in any case

MSmits: it will be interesting to find out what the minimum required number is

jrke: thats why we need some kinda tuning for that

jrke: done manually i thin

MSmits: you need tuning for everything

jrke: k

MSmits: and it doesnt have to be manual

MSmits: people use GA's and other methods for this

MSmits: you can have a bunch of parameters, set a min/max value and just randomly generate combinations and train your NN's from them

MSmits: not ideal, but better than grid search according to reCurs e

jrke: hmm

MSmits: say you think you need between 100 and 1000 neurons, learning rate between 0,01 and 0,2 etc

jrke: i am not sure what neuron exact;y is

MSmits: a neuron is an in-between step in calculation, it's not something that is stored in your network

jrke: what is the difference between input weights and neurons?

MSmits: the neuron is basically the calculation result from the combination of input, input_weights, bias and activation

MSmits: the neuron becomes the input for the next layer

MSmits: so the input itself can be considered a neuron

MSmits: and the output as well

jrke: oh and each layer has different input weights

MSmits: yes

MSmits: if you use 1 hidden layer

MSmits: there are two series of connections

MSmits: input to hidden and hidden to output

MSmits: they both have weights and biases

MSmits: and activation

MSmits: btw, this is just a MLP version of NN. There's others too that have tons of different features, but i wouldnt worry about those yet

MSmits: to be exact, it's a MLP with 1 hidden layer, you cna have more than 1

MSmits: also something i wouldnt bother with at first

jacek: for more info about it, lets google MLP in images google

MSmits: :grin:

jrke: yeah don't make complex at first stage of practice

MSmits: jrke i would do the xor example first if you havent

MSmits: it really helped me

jrke: yeah i did that

MSmits: ah ok

MSmits: yay, i succesfully trained it on 4 TTT states

KalamariKing: amazing

MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/e3e88733-397a-423a-8aca-94d04f696683

jrke: cool

MSmits: just to see if the framework does its thing

KalamariKing: is it doing its thing

MSmits: yea :)

MSmits: now it needs to work for thousands of those :0

KalamariKing: :o

KalamariKing: are you training locally or no

KalamariKing: also language

KalamariKing: python I presume, since its t

KalamariKing: tf*

KalamariKing: MSmits

MSmits: locally

MSmits: simple python only

MSmits: no numpy

KalamariKing: have you heard of google colab

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: it's like using jupyter notebooks

KalamariKing: why not use it

KalamariKing: yeah

jrke: but he don't need that heavy trainning yet

MSmits: because i am trying to do this really low level

jrke: so locally is enough

MSmits: i will just do it once

KalamariKing: but its fasterrrrrr

MSmits: dont care :)

KalamariKing: y'all are wack

MSmits: it's just a one time exercise

MSmits: i will probably port it to trinket.io

MSmits: which doesnt have tensorflow and whatnot

KalamariKing: I see

MSmits: my students know trinket and i can use it as an example and embed it in our learning environment

MSmits: not for any serious exercise, but they can check if out if they're interested

MSmits: i also tested xor example in trinket, worked fine

MSmits: for serious exercises i used the tensorflow playground, it's great

KalamariKing: forgot you were a teacher lol

MSmits: hehe yup still am

KalamariKing: woah how does tf playground work

KalamariKing: this does not look like code

MSmits: https://playground.tensorflow.org/

KalamariKing: yeah

MSmits: it's visual, to get an understanding how NN works without math

KalamariKing: eww

MSmits: well i cant expect much more from high school students :)

KalamariKing: thats so weird

KalamariKing: my guy

KalamariKing: how old do you think I am

annaproxy: ...

MSmits: no idea, but if you're a high school student you aren't my average high school student :P

KalamariKing: lol ig

KalamariKing: neural networks are so much fun tho

MSmits: mine are 15-19 yrs old and barely know python

KalamariKing: :o

MSmits: no oop either

Default avatar.png Purinto: t'es là kami ?

KalamariKing: what

KalamariKing: how

MSmits: they only get 3 yrs of CS and it has a lot of subjects unrelated to coding

MSmits: only 2-3 hrs a week

MSmits: also html/css, databases etc.

KalamariKing: Purinto who's kami

KalamariKing: that's so weird I mean, the CS courses aren't great here either, but damn

MSmits: it's not the course it's the subject matter

Manchi_o6o7: Can someone explain me tree traversal differences. When we use postorder, when preorder etc.

MSmits: we do try to do more for excelling students

KalamariKing: wdym

MSmits: the subject matter is easy, but we offer extra stuff for those who want it

KalamariKing: as in, like, you do more for the students doing well or you do more to try to make all students excel

MSmits: i had a few students solve puzzles on CG

MSmits: yes

KalamariKing: oh thats sick

MSmits: one guy was in the contest actually

MSmits: he quickly left after he got into silver i think

KalamariKing: wait really?

KalamariKing: oh lol

MSmits: had to do exams

MSmits: it's his last year

KalamariKing: yeah

MSmits: he is usually top 10-20% in contests

KalamariKing: wait fr?

MSmits: also solved some hard puzzles here

KalamariKing: well gg to him

MSmits: yeah

KalamariKing: wow ok looks like I got some improving to do

MSmits: but students like him are rare

Manchi_o6o7: MSmits can you maybe help me out

MSmits: depends on your problem Manchi_o6o7

KalamariKing: Manchi_o6o7 just ask, I'm sure someone here can

jacek: Manchi_o6o7 check applications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_traversal#Applications

KalamariKing: tree traversal differences, right

Manchi_o6o7: yes

KalamariKing: preorder/postorder

AntiSquid: are you talking about your students MSmits ?

Manchi_o6o7: and inorder

MSmits: yeah

KalamariKing: I don't even know what those two things mean so I can't help

MSmits: well just teaching CS in general

AntiSquid: do you remember Petras ?

MSmits: I remember the name and seeing him here, but i dont know much about him

AntiSquid: was a highschooler

MSmits: ohh ok

MSmits: jrke is too

AntiSquid: quite high ranking

MSmits: jrke is pretty amazing

AntiSquid: isn't jrke 12 ?

MSmits: not sure, but very young

AntiSquid: ah 13

AntiSquid: he said it

jrke: yeah was 12 now 13

MSmits: thats how that work :)

AntiSquid: don't lie, i am sure it's the other way around jrke

KalamariKing: wait

KalamariKing: jrke

jrke: was 13 now 12 ;)

KalamariKing: you were 12 not too long ago, and you're placing as high as you are

KalamariKing: wow gg

MSmits: yeah he spent a lot of time on dots and boxes too

MSmits: you should check out that leaderboard

jacek: hes doing algo instead of drugs :(

jrke: dots and boxes was my most interesting to project to work on

KalamariKing: dots and boxes?

MSmits: a multi

KalamariKing: like the pen/paper game?

jrke: https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming/dots-and-boxes


MSmits: yes

jacek: pen/paper game? :thinking:

jrke: i have always a tab opened in my browser to track mu rank on D&B ;)

King_Coda: KalamariKing ping

AntiSquid: how old is KalamariKing ?

King_Coda: 15 I think

Manchi_o6o7: If someone can explain me why isn't root==NULL

Manchi_o6o7: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/4c8903a5-b12f-43dc-a16e-071720cddf72

struct: nullptr

struct: or just if(!root)

Manchi_o6o7: same, still

Default avatar.png ikustom: any tips for cp?

struct: if you have multiple == NULL

struct: ah this is C

struct: ups

Manchi_o6o7: if(root==NULL)printf("DELETED!\n");

Manchi_o6o7: this line should be true

DomiKo: when you do free

DomiKo: points isn't null

Manchi_o6o7: I will make it NULL, just a second

Manchi_o6o7: still

Manchi_o6o7: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/cf0f8756-f2ee-4bfe-ab90-922d08562ae8

Manchi_o6o7: after I dealocate the memory, which value has the pointer?

struct: maybe assign null before freeing?

DomiKo: Manchi_o6o7 none

Manchi_o6o7: still not working

DomiKo: it's undefined behavior

Manchi_o6o7: how can I check if the tree is deleted succesfully

DomiKo: you are coping the pointer

Manchi_o6o7: I see, my delete function isn't right

Manchi_o6o7: is this making any sense

Manchi_o6o7: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/871e54f0-9eda-4f55-b946-25d6cb8e3fc3

Manchi_o6o7: it is working, but I am not sure that there are no memory leaks

DomiKo: root=NULL; free(root);

DomiKo: now it's free(NULL)

Manchi_o6o7: free(root);

Manchi_o6o7: root=NULL;

Manchi_o6o7: ?

DomiKo: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/4dc973eb-69ec-49e1-87bd-6fa4215a5430

DomiKo: take reference to pointer

DomiKo: work?

jacek: it blew up his pc

Manchi_o6o7: DomiKo helped me

Manchi_o6o7: here is the working code, if someone wants to check it

Manchi_o6o7: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/89dafe43-f8c4-4cb8-9f63-37db2f606891

jrke: revived PC !

Default avatar.png gnogge: is there any puzzles for absolute noos

Default avatar.png gnogge: noobs

jacek: the descent

AntiSquid: onboarding

AntiSquid: gnogge

jacek: space maze :imp:

Default avatar.png gnogge: ty^^

Default avatar.png StormyPluto3865: benford's law was a bit of a challenge.

Default avatar.png StormyPluto3865: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

AntiSquid: ah no worries

AntiSquid: a lot of people out there who should be experts don't understand that law either, so you're fine

Default avatar.png StormyPluto3865: :slight_smile:

jacek: just like monty hall paradox

jacek: i read even that famous mathematician couldnt believe it

Default avatar.png StormyPluto3865: Now benford's law makes a bit more sense.

AntiSquid: well first results on google for me : https://statisticsbyjim.com/fun/monty-hall-problem/ a statistician who doesn't believe it, so ... got to look at it more

Default avatar.png gnogge: were can i learn more about coding?

Default avatar.png StormyPluto3865: maybe w3schools if you're using javascript?

Smelty: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Default avatar.png gnogge: okay thanks, because im trying to learn here but i dont understand a thing

Default avatar.png StormyPluto3865: yeah

Default avatar.png StormyPluto3865: I've been coding for like 3 years but I never did anything useful.

Default avatar.png StormyPluto3865: Now I kind of do something

jacek: well codingame isnt for complete newbies, its to improve the skills

Default avatar.png gnogge: oh okay

MSmits: mmh I managed to get my network to play games untrained, but I was getting sometimes 50% vs random, sometimes 70% etc. Turns out the problem is of course that the network is completely deterministic once you initialized its weights

MSmits: it's not a random bot :P

jacek: oO

MSmits: it's pretty fast though 2000 games in a second is ok

MSmits: considering it's basic python

MSmits: now i need to start gathering information from the games for the learning, aka,, the hard part

jacek: given how much effort you dedicate for booking, its terrifying to see when you master NN and start training

MSmits: thanks for the compliment :)

MSmits: takes some talent too, I think doesn't it? Effort won't be the problem

MSmits: we'll see how well this goes

MSmits: I like it more than I thought i would

MSmits: the fact that you guys talk about it so much helps a ton btw. I wouldn't even know where to start if it wasn't for you jacek

AntiSquid: what are you doing atm MSmits ?

MSmits: atm trying to get my TTT network to learn

MSmits: i have a ttt implementation that works and my network can play games and learn from states. Now it needs to get the right combination of input and target values

MSmits: just a few more lines of code, then probably fixing a lot of bugs and then of course figuring out all the hyperparameters. No idea how hard that will be

AntiSquid: i would just follow a github example if i were you

MSmits: doing fine on my own so far. But I spend so many months reading and hearing about it, that I can start from a fully formed plan. That helps a lot

AntiSquid: problem is when you try to adapt it to something new (harder)

MSmits: well what i did was adapt the xor example various ways. I changed activation, made it able to take 9 inputs and i made 4 toy states with targets for a TTT board, it was able to learn those

MSmits: I'll share it if i get it working

jacek: plot twist: he'll never get it working

MSmits: that's totally possible :)

AntiSquid: ah, well for TTT you'll get countless working examples

MSmits: yeah, I think I'll experiment a bit with different choices and see what kind of network is easiest to train

MSmits: what i mean by sharing btw, is that i'll just paste my code here if someone asks. I wasnt intending to write an article. As you say, plenty of those

AntiSquid: depends on the problem really what is easiest to train (if you mean easiest to train a strong NN that solves x problem)

AntiSquid: unless you want to stick to a standard approach: input layer, 1 hidden layer, 1 output layer

AntiSquid: number hidden = count(input + output ) / 2 :D

AntiSquid: # hidden nodes i mean

Smelty: oooh

MSmits: I need far more hidden for my setup

MSmits: I don't use a one-hot input

MSmits: so only 9 inputs

MSmits: and only 1 output

MSmits: so with your formula thats 5 hidden

MSmits: probably gonna need more like 100 :)

MSmits: maybe 40 or so, no idea, will try

Manchi_o6o7: guys, how would the recursive call be written correctly

Manchi_o6o7: void deleteTree(NODE **root) {

   if (root == NULL) return;
   deleteTree(root->left);

Manchi_o6o7: left is type of *NODE

Manchi_o6o7: in main i call it as deleteTree(&root)

AntiSquid: no pm thx

jacek: oO

AntiSquid: bubble eye the guy above me

BitWolf.Sr: hey guys

BitWolf.Sr: s3x?


AntiSquid: Smits, i have the feeling most people here are overdoing it in terms of nodes used

MSmits: yeah that could be true

Manchi_o6o7: someone who could help out?

MSmits: thats why one of the experiments i want to do *if* i get it to work, is to find the minimum required for my setup

AntiSquid: reminds me of the lottery paradox :D

dreadylein: define overdoing ;)

Smelty: o v e r

Smelty: doing

AntiSquid: it's something your have to asses yourself

AntiSquid: you'd *

MSmits: I think in the context of, say oware, you will probably get less quality of evaluation, but if you keep adding nodes, your performance drops. At some point the gain from having more nodes does not compete with the loss of performance

MSmits: i think this is how you define it

dreadylein: the main problem is, finding the best hyperparms is by far the most costy part

MSmits: yeah

dreadylein: more weights normaly mean a higher ceiling, which makes it easier

dreadylein: as even "suboptimal" networks will yield good perfomance

MSmits: in the end you dont want your hyperparameters fitted for the fastest training though

MSmits: you want it fitted for the best performance

MSmits: ingame

MSmits: anyways, lots of things to think about

dreadylein: hehe

MSmits: pretty sure the other guys have done this

dreadylein: its part of the fun, isnt it

MSmits: yeah

Default avatar.png UUolfo: are there any machine learning puzzles/programs besides the basic decision tree 1&2? can't find much

jacek: maybe binary neural network

KiwiTae: in somegames and cpp , you can get a timeout error if you have a nullptr somewhere?

AntiSquid: i'd argue the MCTS puzzles are a step in that direction too UUolfo

Default avatar.png UUolfo: thank you

MSmits: if you want to use machine learning for games here, learna good search algorithm first

MSmits: doesn't even have to be mcts i guess. You could just use minimax

Manchi_o6o7: can someone help me out. I have a NODE pointing to a struct as the data. When I free the node, it just removes one part of the struct

Manchi_o6o7: not the whole struct

reCurse: *cough* You don't even need a search algorithm

jacek:

MSmits: true you dont need one. You can just see if your network performs better than smart heuristics

MSmits: but if you want to compete with the top you probably do need a search

reCurse: Sure except maybe csb

MSmits: csb networks are so powerful you dont need search?

reCurse: fenrir has no search

MSmits: I guess the game is quite hard to eval so that kinda makes sense

reCurse: "Let's do a full format on this 12tb drive to make sure it has no bad sectors." 5 hours later, 29% done. Crap.

MSmits: oops

struct: 12 tb o.o

reCurse: I think I just realized how much space that is

AntiSquid: isn't the entire point of ML to ignore search and make your model learn on its own? @_@

AntiSquid: (rhetorical q )

struct: yes im doing it so i dont ahve to code at all

struct: /s

AntiSquid: now you're exaggerating

MSmits: AntiSquid the model learns what a good state is, but it's still better if it knows what a good state is 5 turns from now

AntiSquid: a lot of coding is done outside just coding the search

AntiSquid: i should look up how to apply future knowledge to an LSTM, honestly don't know

struct: botg NN when?

kovi: a much deeper network can include a partial search tree

kovi: to see into the future

AntiSquid: when i get time struct

OBenjOne: I may have found a bug in Back to the Code

OBenjOne: Im not sure yet

Smelty: o.O

Smelty: coding escape?

OBenjOne: my code threw an error but I still won

Smelty: lol

**BlaiseEbuth will not laugh yet so.

OBenjOne: https://www.codingame.com/replay/559791821

OBenjOne: Excuse my terrible code as you can see it's not working

BlaiseEbuth: Crashs, and even invalid commands are not in the lose conditions.

BlaiseEbuth: https://www.codingame.com/replay/559792332

OBenjOne: Oh, thats interesting

BlaiseEbuth: Old multi, more permissive.

Smelty: interesting

Default avatar.png kresteodymium: hi BlaiseEbuth

Default avatar.png kresteodymium: hi Smelty

Default avatar.png kresteodymium: hi OBenjOne

Default avatar.png kresteodymium: sup

Wontonimo: i don't see a brutaltester ref for BotG. Was there ever one?

Wontonimo: hey kresteodymium, have you tried the bot battles or the practice challenges?

Default avatar.png kresteodymium: no :(

Wontonimo: well you are in luck! Today is your luck day

Wontonimo: there is a special on right now, finish https://www.codingame.com/training/easy/mars-lander-episode-1 and gain access to episode 1

Wontonimo: 2

KiwiTae: Wontonimo https://github.com/Illedan/BOTG-Refree

Wontonimo: OH! Thanks KiwiTae !

Default avatar.png kresteodymium: epic Wontonimo

Astrobytes: You're doing BotG?

Wontonimo: yeah, i've done some work on my bot

Wontonimo: got to bronze. nothing awesome, but progress

Astrobytes: I gave up at Bronze.

KiwiTae: Wontonimo my bot in botg is funky if u get a chance to play it :")

Astrobytes: There was paint drying that needed watching.

Astrobytes: Funky? Like George Clinton funky?

Wontonimo: oh KiwiTae, you be in Legend. Sorry man, but Legend for BotG is probably out of my care zone

Wontonimo: maybe i could figure something out, but ... no ... wait ... your bot is python !?!

KiwiTae: Astrobytes i dont even check the minions ><

Astrobytes: It's not much of a search game iirc

Wontonimo: okay, that's good news

Astrobytes: I really don't like the game. But that's imo only. Don't let me influence you. Many people enjoy this game. /disclaimer

Wontonimo: I have some ideas about NN for BotG. It hinges on having the ref, because my level of interest does not include rewriting the ref.

Astrobytes: Ugh. Cat vomited. Laters.

Wontonimo: pro-tip : don't try to cover up cat vomit with human vomit.

Astrobytes: If-else ftw, wouldn't waste time on NNing that

Wontonimo: you may be right

Astrobytes: Anyway, take care man, cya tomorrow

Wontonimo: cya man

Default avatar.png Me42: hi, new to this. What are the debugging options (C#)? Can I Debug.WriteLine or what?

Wontonimo: yeah, print to stderr

Wontonimo: instructions are in the starter code

Wontonimo: if you deleted the starter code, you can get it back by clicking the circle-arrow thing in the upper right corner

Default avatar.png Me42: why indeed it is. thanks

Wontonimo: but that will delete your current code

Wontonimo: but you can ctr-z to get it back

Default avatar.png Me42: thanks Wontonimo.

Wontonimo: lol, no prob

Wontonimo: what challenge / bot / optimization are you working on?

Default avatar.png Me42: Labyrinth. Was thinking about a just-a-little-less-stupid version of brute force recursive exploration algo (with pruning for less-than-optimal-path), including some logic for the uncertain area's (optimistic routing), but I think the max 150 ms delay will pretty much kill that off :lol:

Default avatar.png Me42: and some nifty backtracking involved of course

AntiSquid: you can go legend Wontonimo for BotG, you got legend for SC21, BotG is easier to get legend

Smelty: o.O

AntiSquid: Me42 BFS, store the path, you can do it .

Default avatar.png Me42: yeah, path will be in the recursion (backtrack). But I'm falling asleep here.. :lol:

Default avatar.png Me42: thanks AntiSquid.

Default avatar.png Me42: I can figure this out ;)

Default avatar.png Me42: but your support is much appreciated :thumbsup:

Wontonimo: oh thanks AntiSquid, I'll give it a go

Wontonimo: Go Me42 Go! That's a good challenge

Wontonimo: :wave:

Default avatar.png Me42: bye!

Wontonimo: ng good people of cg

Smelty: bye

Chainman: hey

SoggyBunzz: world chat has been silent for 3 hours... not something you see every day lol

ZarthaxX: yeah it happens prety often

ZarthaxX: except on contests

Chainman: pewpew break the silence

ZarthaxX: :rofl:

Smelty: :rofl:

Chainman: This one does not spark joy