Smelty: o.O
ZarthaxX: hi Smelty :*
eulerscheZahl: when I heard about the y2k problem, i was just worried that my favorite computer games would still run
eulerscheZahl: i was 8 at that time
ZarthaxX: first world problem haha
pmor: I was offered a lot of money when I was in college to fix y2k code. Turned it down cause I had no interest in working in COBOL
NickSaidSomethingWonderful: why i recieve no achievement or exp for completing puzzles?
NickSaidSomethingWonderful: :sweat:
klmn: Me2, no exp, no achiev
Smelty: you have to wait i think its broken atm
eulerscheZahl: it always takes a few days
eulerscheZahl: first they will run their plagiarism check to remove those players who cheated
eulerscheZahl: then shift the game to the multiplayer section and do the achievements
Smelty: ah
eulerscheZahl: this blocks other achievements as well. they are in the queue, but after the contest ones
eulerscheZahl: oh, they already gave contest points
NickSaidSomethingWonderful: ic, but it did not take this long previously
NickSaidSomethingWonderful: is it because the hard puzzles or the spring contest?
eulerscheZahl: the contest
eulerscheZahl: after a contests there's always a slowdown
NickSaidSomethingWonderful: oh, ic. Thanks
charizad: :rage:
nam4.nguyen: calm
nam4.nguyen: what belongs to you, comes to you
cegprakash: got to wood1 in Night of War.. Ppl wreck me
cegprakash: :D
jacek: Practice AI, 3D and 5% with Dice Duel :thinking:
field3: :thinking:
Tiramon: my bot has done that 8 times in a row cegprakash ;)
jacek: most of games is up and down fest https://www.codingame.com/replay/557845309
Tiramon: for mine it is just a 'he is in range ... he is dead'
https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/557845132
MSmits: my uncle worked for IBM in 1999 and was detached to Japan to help them with the millenium problem
MSmits: I remember he had to use a keyboard overlay thingy because otherwise he couldnt use their keyboards
MSmits: really was a serious scare
Tiramon: why didn't he bring his own?
Tiramon: at least i would bring a qwertz keyboard from home :)
jrke: they didn't released multi for SC21 yet?
Tiramon: guess they will release it til end of the week, last times they were quite fast
Tiramon: early on it took a feew weeks, last contests were out in a few days up to a week
ThunderbirdOne: so, trying to get into c++ here on CG... is there some utility function somewhere that splits strings by a delimiter ?
jrke: yeah last time it released under 5-6 hours
Marchete: i got my string split from stackoverflow
Marchete: it's not like C#
ThunderbirdOne: I know, i'm kind of bothered with it :P
Marchete: why C++ btw?
Marchete: C# is competent enough
ThunderbirdOne: oh just some badges/achievements on here lol
Marchete: ahh
Marchete: ok
ThunderbirdOne: needed 1 more puzzle to level up my c++ lol
ThunderbirdOne: but it still baffles me that functions to work with strings aren't there...
ThunderbirdOne: i mean, i guess you could do it using substring over and over, but... meh :P
Tiramon: google says
https://www.fluentcpp.com/2017/04/21/how-to-split-a-string-in-c/
cegprakash: I don't know what's wrong with my power of thro
cegprakash: Power of THor
cegprakash: I move in diagonal first
cegprakash: but I run out off energy
ThunderbirdOne: which power of thor?
cegprakash: code golf
ThunderbirdOne: ah
cegprakash: okay found the bug
cegprakash: my bad
cegprakash: I wandered off the board
cegprakash: that's what message says
ThePoisoned1: I don't understand how am i supposed to place the cargos in the problem of the week. Can someone explain me a bit how the examples works?
https://www.codingame.com/ide/puzzle/container-terminal
aayux: any material for python
KiwiTae: cegprakash 700+ char? you can do better hehe
cegprakash: 384
derjack: in python?
cegprakash: :)
cegprakash: KiwiTae
cegprakash: i can still reduce :)
cegprakash: I see ppl have done with 88 chars
cegprakash: with c
cegprakash: :o
cegprakash: 336
jrke: my power of thor python is 116
Tiramon: got power of thor at 79 .. not sure in which lang ;)
Tiramon: at pyhton i'm at 114
Tiramon: oh js was the 79
cegprakash: anyone know c equivalent of cerr
Tiramon: it should be mentioned in the default code
Tiramon: To debug: fprintf(stderr, "Debug messages...\n");
jrke: default stub generated code has that thing cegprakash
Jo4: @ThePoisoned1 i just bruteforced the whole thing
ThePoisoned1: :/
Jo4: it is a logical solution to it
Jo4: but i didnt want to think, so a bf solution by testing all combinations works as well
ThePoisoned1: but thats kinda sus
Jo4: why?
ThePoisoned1: i mean the problem tells u not to sort because is inneficient
ThePoisoned1: bf shoul not be much better
Jo4: im not sorting
Jo4: you have to optimize it
Jo4: somewaht
Jo4: like not calculating combinations thats bigger than the current minimum
ThePoisoned1: i guess
ThePoisoned1: my idea was to have a list of containers and try to see if i can put the container at the begining or the end of it
ThePoisoned1: the cargo*
ThePoisoned1: if i cant place it in any
Uljahn: use stacks
ThePoisoned1: so
ThePoisoned1: u have your stack
davilla: funny you mention, my solution used sets :-P
ThePoisoned1: LIFO
ThePoisoned1: right?
ThePoisoned1: then u try to put the coming cargo somewhere and if u cant u stack it?
ThePoisoned1: i never worked with stack so idk who to use them
ThePoisoned1: :(
Uljahn: actually you can use lists just don't put elements at the beginning
ThePoisoned1: like
ThePoisoned1: only in one direction
ThePoisoned1: liek either the list is getting lower containers
ThePoisoned1: or hihger
ThePoisoned1: but not mix them?
ThePoisoned1: if i only check if the container is hihgeror equal to the last one(Ascii val)
ThePoisoned1: and if i cant put it an a new one
ThePoisoned1: the example gives me
ThePoisoned1: 1 3 3 3 4
ThePoisoned1: and its supposed to give
ThePoisoned1: 1 3 1 4 4
Manchi_o6o7: Guys, if someone can help me why I am not getting any output
Manchi_o6o7: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/b339b144-d6a2-4a2e-a9eb-4b68efe0bc39
Uljahn: ThePoisoned1: what if there are some stacks with hegher elements already?
davilla: You're getting 3 instead of 1 because you're being inefficient, and you're getting 3 instead of 4 because you stacked them in the wrong order.
Uljahn: *higher
davilla: I would concentrate on the latter problem first. Don't put Z on top of A, or that ship won't sail.
ThePoisoned1: like save all of the containers
ThePoisoned1: and then u check if u can put any of the remaing oens in oen spot?
ThePoisoned1: ik why the 3 instead of 1 is wrong
davilla: It's not actually necessary to save all the containers in order to solve, but it might make it easier to think about and debug.
ThePoisoned1: but why is: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/67ab8952-ba50-47ca-aa60-9ed6de5b84b1
Uljahn: i guess you should find the minimum stack with greater or equal last cargo, and if there are none then make a new stack
cegprakash: https://www.diffchecker.com/BgIjEIxb code cleanup has worsened the no. of characters lol
ThePoisoned1: mmmmmmm
Uljahn: i mean minimum ascii of the last element
ThePoisoned1: yeah
ThePoisoned1: but ist that like sorting
ThePoisoned1: ?
ThePoisoned1: like adding the cargoes but sorted
ThePoisoned1: i guess not realyl
davilla: You got that for input BDNIDPD
ThePoisoned1: yeah
davilla: so the first thing your code did was put D on top of B?
ThePoisoned1: yeah i guess
davilla: How are you going to load ship B, if there's a D sitting on top of it?
ThePoisoned1: liek u have
ThePoisoned1: B D N P
ThePoisoned1: u take b then d then n then p
ThePoisoned1: wait
davilla: Think of physical containers sitting on a dock. P is on top of everything. You're not getting to B.
ThePoisoned1: the cargo only has 1 door?
Marchete: https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming/spring-challenge-2021
davilla: Think vertically.
ThePoisoned1: thats what i was missing
Marchete: that was fast
ThePoisoned1: yeah
ThePoisoned1: i thoug i coul just put the cargo from one side ant take it from teh otehr
ThePoisoned1: i was thinking it as FIFO
ThePoisoned1: and its not
ThePoisoned1: kekw
davilla: Heh, good.
Krakenus00: wuta?
Is it the challenge of the week?
ThePoisoned1: yeah
Krakenus00: Oh, it's rather simple
Krakenus00: Check the tests and why do they stack containers in such manner
cegprakash: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/ea6b5def-3a35-4be1-b02e-1b4e7e60a650
cegprakash: need a shorter code than that :P
Krakenus00: omg what is that
derjack: remove new lines?
cegprakash: I mean after removing new lines
cegprakash: Krakenus00 using it for power of thor code golf lol
ThePoisoned1: got it
ThePoisoned1: was just an idiot myself
Tiramon: how many chars in what lang is that cegprakash?
cegprakash: I use c Tiramon
cegprakash: U;n at 281 chars currently
Tiramon: that's not one of the default golfs .. is it?
KiwiTae: cegprakash yeah you can x<a? :
instead of x<a& ?:
KiwiTae: Tiramon its his thor code prob
Tiramon: that is thor? how with out NSWE chars ...
cegprakash: don't get you KiwiTae
KiwiTae: he gets an index
KiwiTae: then read a table of str maybe
Tiramon: my c solution of thor is 152 chars long
cegprakash: I use this Tiramon
char *m[8]={"SE","NE","SW","NW","E","S","W","N"};
int u[]={1,1,-1,-1,1,0,-1,0};
int v[]={1,-1,1,-1,0,1,0,-1};
Krakenus00: in C I have 124 chars
ThePoisoned1: you can check first if it need to go N or S
ThePoisoned1: then u can add E or W
ThePoisoned1: afterwards
Tiramon: you never go N anyway ...
cegprakash: never north?
cegprakash: u mean test cases are weak? :P
Tiramon: kind of
ThePoisoned1: u do in the problem itself
ThePoisoned1: not in the tests
ThePoisoned1: the actual test has north
Tiramon: in which case?
KiwiTae: d=x<a?y<b?0:y>b?1:4
Marchete: you go North now
Marchete: recheck it
cegprakash: yes there is north just checked
ThePoisoned1: in the validators
ThePoisoned1: test 2 and 4 need u to go north too
Tiramon: oh did they fix the validators?
Marchete: it was changed, yes
Tiramon: oh right
KiwiTae: y if your solution dont pass 100%now u have 0pts
Tiramon: ok then none of my thor solutions will work anymore =)
KiwiTae: you must have lost the points :p
cegprakash: for(scanf("%d%d%d%d",&a,&b,&x,&y);scanf("%d",&t);x+=u[d],y+=v[d],puts(m[d])){
may be this part can be shortened?
Marchete: system("magichere");
KiwiTae: personaly i dont parse the string
Tiramon: KiwiTae my solutions are still valid, also if i would resubmit they won't work with those validators
Krakenus00: you don't need to scanf turns btw
Krakenus00: just remove it
Tiramon: intial scanf is enough right
cegprakash: no u need to read every turn
Krakenus00: nope
KiwiTae: no you dont
cegprakash: oh
cegprakash: I see this is not a multi
Tiramon: turn info in thor is pretty useless
KiwiTae: even if its a multi you got enough info
cegprakash: in multi if u don't read all the inputs the game will be messed up next turn
KiwiTae: no
KiwiTae: you just get somewhat blind
Tiramon: really stupid that there is no N testcase ...
KiwiTae: there are now no?
Krakenus00: does the code above work?
Tiramon: my northless code can still solve all testcases
KiwiTae: ><
Tiramon: but only gets 50% on validators
cegprakash: 249 now. :)
cegprakash: enough for today :)
Tiramon: hm those new validators make the task more complex ...
Krakenus00: Can't get any less than 123. I wonder how pardouin managed to solve it with only 47 chars
Krakenus00: There should be a much better algorithm
Tiramon: damn northonly was so much shorter :(
darkhorse64: I have 108 exploiting southless validators. I think Pardouin et al. are using "system" tricks
Tiramon: damn those validators are even more stupid than i thought
darkhorse64: Yeah, there should be more of them
ArtLiteracyStory: this is so fun
Krakenus00: I don't even know which system commands I can use here:sweat_smile:
ArtLiteracyStory: This place is awesome
Krakenus00: Yeah, it is
ArtLiteracyStory: first time here
Krakenus00: I love this place much more than leetcode or hackerrank
ArtLiteracyStory: never tried those other sites. I like how realtime this is
Krakenus00: I also like this rating and achievements system
ArtLiteracyStory: I feel like my code shouldn't work but I won anyway in this last game lol
[CG]Thibaud: :heart:
mikmak: darkhorse64, I didn't read all the discussion, but do you mean that you don't need "S" at all (and all variant) ?
Tiramon: old validators were only SWE movement current validators are only NSE movement
Tiramon: already told thibaud so he can fix that ;)
ArtLiteracyStory: I love the gamification of programming being done here
darkhorse64: However tests go south. Best is to write that works in all cases and then golf from this starting point
darkhorse64: *write something*
Westicles: I thought it was programification of gaming
Tiramon: damn with a all direction solution my thor solution has grown from 79 to 125 :sob:
Krakenus00: cheater...
Krakenus00: I have 123 without cheating
Krakenus00: But what's the point of using system? For storing variables or what?
mikmak: 115 without cheating in C.
mikmak: I just gain 2 characters in C++ by removing the W :innocent:
Westicles: LPT: Call the guy a cheater after he helps you, not before
Tiramon: thibaud will add W again ... so your W less solution will get no score
jacek: oO
Tiramon: just create a solution with all directions working ... and yes that will increase size and makes approaches more complex
jacek: validators change periodically?
mikmak: I will re-add the W then
Tiramon: no only until they validate what they should validate :)
Tiramon: thibaud thought he had all directions in the validators ... i proofed him wrong :)
Westicles: It has only been brought up like 5,000 times. Pretty sure they don't care
Alihussain: hi
Tiramon: oh is that new that i start in the mp of the contest with my old code and history and in the league i was last in?
Tiramon: so no extra promotion xp if i play contest and mp :(
jacek: hmm? i promoted to gold and got 250xp
Tiramon: i only have the xp of the promotions i got in the contest
Alihussain: hi
Alihussain: iam new here
Tiramon: welcome Alihussain :)
SabertheLost: omg, the only 1 seed at a time made me from 300 to seem to be promoted to gold?
Tiramon: yes also tested that
without limit 119
everything below 5 seed was worse
and only 1 seed at a time got me to a score of 126 :)
jrke: oh so multi released
Tiramon: yes they copied the contest to multi
Tiramon: with all code and leaderboards and history
jrke: happens every time tiramon
jrke: tags says minimax + graphs
Tiramon: nowaday yes ... earlier contests not
jacek: graphs... and everyone doing bitboards
SabertheLost: wow rank 800 in gold by the seedcost < 1 .
KelvinAndHubbles: hit gold league during the contest, but my quest map isn't updating even now. Is there something to do for that?
jacek: what quest
SabertheLost: time too add any type of look ahead. not just wired possible best move this action
KelvinAndHubbles: The "Hit gold league quest"
jacek: reach the gold league in any game?
jacek: could be you need to wait for next day
SabertheLost: can you score zero when harvest a tree ?
SabertheLost: SabertheLost is ending their tree life on cell 33, scoring 0
SabertheLost: I thougth at least 1? (even if that is same/worse then the cost 4)
Njitram: If nutrients = 0 and the cell richness = 1.
jrke: if nutrient == 0 and richness == 0 then it can give you 0 score
KelvinAndHubbles: yea, I guess so, I don't even have CP yet for the game, so I guess it's gone take a second
jacek: you cant plant on richness 0
jacek: richness 1 gives 0 points
jrke: ^
Tiramon: still 1 score from complete is worth less than 1.33 score from suns
jrke: my bad
SabertheLost: Oh, so richenesss 1 is zero? that should been 0 and -1 then...
Njitram: Read the rules carefully ;)
Codechaos: Yes, richness 1 = 0 Bonus, richness 2 = 2 Bonus, richness 3 = 4 Bonus
Marchete: nutrient 0 richness 1 ==1<1.33 not worth it
SabertheLost: Yeah, so many rules that were counter intivue this time
Tiramon: nutrient 0 richness 1 == 0
Marchete: any eval on endgame should use scoreme - scoreenm
Marchete: no matter other stuff, as sun is converted by 1/3
Marchete: or 3*score + sun
Marchete: it's the same
Wontonimo: what? We don't have to resubmit into the multi for SC2021? Cool that our bot is just copied over!
Marchete: also history
MSmits: 3* score + sun is not the same as score + sun /3
Marchete: it seems a move rather than a copy
Wontonimo: oh, that's awesome
Marchete: true
Marchete: division
MSmits: well thats all i got to say about last contest, trying to forget it now :P
Marchete: but I saw some others using it
Wontonimo: yeah, the sun needs to be truncated
MSmits: i saw i still got some reasonable cp even though it was low legend result. High playercount helps!
MSmits: though still less cp than my spring 2020 result
KalamariKing: wdym cp
KalamariKing: explain
jacek: coding points
jacek: not the other cp
MSmits: decides competitive rank
MSmits: its not the most important thing, but it helps with motivation
MSmits: same as xp
Marchete: smits
Wontonimo: i'm pretty happy with my CP drop from this competition
Wontonimo: *gain
jacek: oO
jacek: oh
Marchete: can I ask you some mathematical equivalence on PUCT?
Wontonimo: (i was thinking loot drop)
MSmits: cool sure
Marchete: https://medium.com/oracledevs/lessons-from-alphazero-part-3-parameter-tweaking-4dceb78ed1e5
jacek: math? :scream:
Marchete: We calculate PUCT(s, a) = Q(s, a) + U(s, a), where U is calculated as follows
Marchete: I understand it as
Marchete: PUCT = sumScoreChild/childvisits + k*Prob*sqrt(parent)/(1+childvisits)
Marchete: PUCT=sumScoreChild*(1+childvisits)+k*Prob*sqrt(parent)*childvisits ?
MSmits: the first term is correct for sure
MSmits: let me look at the second
MSmits: oh that is your question
MSmits: sec
Marchete: both
Marchete: if I understand it right
Marchete: and if it can be tweaked
MSmits: do you mean both of these are equivalent?
Marchete: in terms of selecting max PUCT
Marchete: the classic Select() from MCTS
Tiramon: great i always had a simple calculation error in my shadows affecting cells
MSmits: Marchete you multiplied both terms with childvisits and childvisits + 1 yes?
MSmits: to get from 1st version to 2nd version?
jacek: looks fishy
Marchete: both with (child)*(1+child)
MSmits: yes, i think its wrong
MSmits: because
MSmits: you compare different children
jacek: this way more childvisits means more exploration
Marchete: so denominators go away
jacek: or rather, less exploration overeall
MSmits: yes within that formula they go away
MSmits: but
MSmits: you compare many children
MSmits: and take the best PUCT
Marchete: ahh true
MSmits: they are not all multiplied by the same
Marchete: ok
Marchete: yeah, the other part
Marchete: thnx
MSmits: did you have another question about this?
Marchete: a lot!
Marchete: but the whole NN is full of questions
MSmits: well i dont know a lot about azero in general, just the basics
jacek: but NN is to provide answers
MSmits: my next step is still implementing jacek-NN
MSmits: in oware
MSmits: rest comes later
jrke: i wanna learn NN
jrke: but unable to
MSmits: do the xor example jrke
MSmits: plenty to find
Wontonimo: ha, CoC Addict achievement (100 clashes) pushed me to Level 29
MSmits: but if you want to do NN;s in a board game, practice mcts first
MSmits: nice!
MSmits: I got lvl 36 from one of the league promotions in contesr
MSmits: most of my xp is probably from solving puzzles over the summer vacations
jacek: you can get 2500 XP for "Create a community contest"
jacek: ah wait...
MSmits: lol...
KalamariKing: you should get at least a little bit of xp for coc's
MSmits: people spam them too much
KalamariKing: true
MSmits: also some people have libraries with solutions
MSmits: they just paste it in, insta win
darkhorse64: I recently read a book:"Neural Networks from scratch in Python". This book is as low level as you can get. It even goes to explain what is a derivative. The only requirement is python + numpy, no other third party librairies. Honestly, I learned a lot reading this book even though it is not geared towards gaming
KalamariKing: Wait really?
MSmits: well you can get repeats after a few 100 clashes
MSmits: this is not that common
KalamariKing: Seen a couple of those yeah
MSmits: but it happens
MSmits: good advice darkhorse64
MSmits: jrke wake up
MSmits: buy book
jrke: which book
MSmits: darkhorse64
KalamariKing: all of them
MSmits: read
jacek: darkhorse64 every NN tutorial is about bunch of derivative formulas, which they dont understand, then python import nn; nn.train(mnist). the end :unamused:
KalamariKing: or just burn through the tensorflow/pytorch manuals
KalamariKing: that's what I did
darkhorse64: After that, you'll get a better comprehension of what the xor code does (because there are some shortcuts in the code)
MSmits: some xor code examples have no bias
MSmits: and no option for more layers
MSmits: so yeah, shortcuts
MSmits: the one jacek shared was pretty good in this regard
MSmits: at least had bias and i think not too hard to extend with more layers
darkhorse64: jacek: exactly. Nearly everything I have found throws 50 lines of tensorflow or pytorch when training and you do not get a clue. This book goes not
darkhorse64: *does*
jacek: i think i managed to make simple softmax network, it seems to be consistent with what keras outputs, but it looks so simple in comparison to bunch of math mambo-jumbo softmax derivations im not sure if its correct
MSmits: it's not, I think it's mumbo jumbo
darkhorse64: the book explains softmax and its derivatives.
jacek: https://pastebin.com/UdZwFDgd vs https://pastebin.com/Pj37A0YG
darkhorse64: There are youtube tutorials centered on the first chapters of the book. Really amazing. They explains why use bias, what are layers, ...
MSmits: nice one jacek
Tiramon: hm fixing my shadows improved me another 500+ ranks
damn why didn't i see this one line on monday morning :(
MSmits: this is why i do not return to contests
MSmits: at least not in a year or so :P
Tiramon: good point :)
jacek: oO
MSmits: think imight return to kutulu some point
jrke: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/557938351 - my bot learns to earn sunpoints
jrke: :grin:
darkhorse64: There are also chapters on various optimizers. Now when I read Keras code, I get some clue
MSmits: darkhorse, i am getting that read
Tiramon: jrke if he now also learns to spend them =)
MSmits: dont mind if i already know 90%, its a fun subject
MSmits: and will learn some
MSmits: ttyl, train arriving
Wontonimo: later
darkhorse64: I got more than 10% new content even if I skipped the math
Astrobytes: why skip the math? Or you know it already I guess
jacek: who needs math
Astrobytes: Well, I mean, it's pretty handy
Wontonimo: it took me about 6 months of about 10 hours a week of coding small NN until it really clicked for me. NN architecture is nothing like any other programming except maybe shader coding
Tiramon: and NN is still always different :)
jrke: is NN used just for evaluating a state?
Wontonimo: you can use it for just that if you want. you can use it to eval moves,
Wontonimo: or both
jacek: i only use it to evaluate state
Tiramon: it's complicated ...
Alihussain: hi bro iam doing coding about 12 months above but my logic is not really good and i am using c++ language what should i do
Marchete: and when you try to merge all, it gets harder
Tiramon: Alihussain keep coding and improve bit by bit
Alihussain: can any one help me
Wontonimo: sure
jacek: try easy puzzles first
Wontonimo: i'll dm you
darkhorse64: Yeah, I skipped the math because all of this is quite familiar. The other thing you can look at after reading the book is the binary neural network exercise on CG. This is a good starting point for implementing your own library and win a CG three years after
darkhorse64: CG contest
Astrobytes: :D
Astrobytes: Yeah, I remember you recommended that puzzle previously
Tiramon: there is a binary nn stuff at cg?
Astrobytes: https://www.codingame.com/training/hard/binary-neural-network---part-1
Astrobytes: https://www.codingame.com/training/expert/binary-neural-network---part-2
Tiramon: yes just found it ... just didn't know
darkhorse64: I started last summer with it but I did not understand all of it because it lacks explanation. With the book, it's much more clear (but not easier to implement)
nam4.nguyen: follow Wontonimo and he will guide u so much
Wontonimo: ??
Wontonimo: thanks nam4.nguyen
Tiramon: my basic understandings of NN comes from the udacity deep reinformenent leerding i took last year
was hard but helpful
Tiramon: *learning
jacek: i took part of coursera machine learning course
nam4.nguyen: especially at first :D
jacek: by ng andrew
nam4.nguyen: I know him
nam4.nguyen: oh ni
nam4.nguyen: just by his reputation
nam4.nguyen: I took a course too
Wontonimo: i did that course about 4 years ago. Super course!
KalamariKing: Are clashes not ranked or smth
Tiramon: KalamariKing CP are only recalced daily
iggy12345: they have they're own ranking
KalamariKing: In this lobby, rn, there's someone in 2kth place, I'm in 7kth place, and there are plenty in 20-40kth place
KalamariKing: This is all over the place
Tiramon: oh you mean like leagues .. no you will clash with any skill available
jacek: diversity :heart:
MSmits: book seems cool darkhorse64
MSmits: will read, 600+ pages will take a while though
jacek: beware of spoilers
jacek: its not a happy ending
darkhorse64: Actually, it took me two days because I could do some quick reading on obvious parts
MSmits: did you remember to eat, breathe and sleep in those two days?
Astrobytes: lol
BrickWill68: yepp
Astrobytes: I feel you'll be able to skip some parts too MSmits
darkhorse64: barely
MSmits: probably, i might not anyway. Sometimes you recognize something, but reinforcement of knowledge is also good. Stops you from forgetting
Astrobytes: REinforcement learning eh
MSmits: sure
Astrobytes: I get ya though, can help a lot
jacek: but you may stuck on local optima
MSmits: you're stuck on one yourself jacek, when will you be doing convolution and policy ?
jacek: i might start with policy. convolution sounds too slow
MSmits: recur se just used it in contest
Marchete: conv is slow
MSmits: must be reason for that
jacek: because hes noob and cant into one hots
MSmits: lol
Marchete: but it's very useful for games with positioning
Marchete: because you can rotate etc
MSmits: like most boardgames
Marchete: and it can extract features
MSmits: wonder if its usefulf or oware, i dont think so personally
jacek: i have n-tuples for that. so no motivation for me
Marchete: but I can't understand how these N x hexboards convolve eachother
MSmits: doesnt seem too hard, just use hex filters
Marchete: I think it works better for 2D stuff
MSmits: filter with neighbors
Marchete: conv3x3 probably
jacek: 2x3x2
Marchete: on SC21
Marchete: 2x3x2?
Marchete: ahh hex
jacek: yes
Marchete: I haven't seen hex yet
Marchete: as if normal conv wasn't hard
MSmits: is it really hard, once you've gotten everything else down?
Marchete: I mean
Marchete: I tried to AVX2 it
MSmits: i guess you're mostly talking about the c++ inference part
Marchete: it was omg for me
Marchete: yes
MSmits: ahh ok
Marchete: inference with high performance
MSmits: well if i ever get there i promise to share
Marchete: if you do as simple array[]
Marchete: it's not that hard
MSmits: i see
Marchete: I'll try to retake my oware bot
Marchete: and finally convert it to a0
MSmits: seems the perfect place to start
MSmits: btw, i will be focusing on your mokka thingy. Don't go anywere the next month or 4 :P
Marchete: but so many details: input definition, model, rollout count, cpuct constant, what to export as policy, hor many games, modified MCTS for PUCT, the noise added, the learning rate, function loss, etc etc etc
darkhorse64: a0 is the next step for me but I'll start with toy games
MSmits: robo i think started with a0
jacek: toy games like onitama eh
MSmits: onitama is awesome :)
darkhorse64: connect2
jacek: back then a0 was only serious thing with nn for games
darkhorse64: or ttt
MSmits: well people used other nn stuff for csb
MSmits: not a0
MSmits: i think anyway
darkhorse64: Games for which you know the optimal strategy to cross check and debug
MSmits: it's a good idea
jacek: but connect4 is solved
jacek: no need for connect2
MSmits: does it count if i know the optimal strategy from my opening books :)
jacek: for 7x6 version?
MSmits: no i have it just for 7x9, not solved yet, but pretty much
MSmits: takes ages to finish even though its clear
MSmits: draws eh
darkhorse64: my 30+ years of programming experience tell me that it is of thee utmost importance to have good test cases to validate your code
MSmits: yep, my 10 years say the same
darkhorse64: clear draw but +3/4 against the pack chasers
jacek: for c++, the compiler finds the error. for php, the client finds the error
MSmits: darkhorse64 what do you mean
MSmits: pack chasers
jacek: stack fest?
darkhorse64: the guys in hot pursuit behind us on the lb
jrke: CG reverse sycology - eat then brew or cook then crop, SC20 then FC20 then SC21
MSmits: oh ok
MSmits: did not see
MSmits: my latest book is not on there
MSmits: I think I have a 13 million nodes based book but the 5 million is on there
darkhorse64: I wonder what you did for such a strong bot. I have smart rollouts (avoiding all losing moves)
darkhorse64: you booked C4
darkhorse64: ?
MSmits: yeah but its still best without book
MSmits: book did little
KalamariKing: when IS rank reeval
MSmits: usually just first 4-5 moves
jacek: and general book? not against someone?
MSmits: yes general
MSmits: which is why first 4-5 moves
MSmits: if counter, then 20 moves
Wontonimo: were you able to book SC2021 ?
MSmits: nah
darkhorse64: Connect 4
MSmits: didnt tr
MSmits: y
MSmits: doesnt seem likely
MSmits: btw brb, picking up daughter from school
struct: hello
AmikOwO_: bre
KalamariKing: hello struct
Alihussain: hi
MSmits: hmmph now i want to switch my meta mcts back to connect4
MSmits: still have to parallelize that one
Wontonimo: :wave: struct
jacek: hmph
MSmits: it was doing like 5 games /s on 1 core, because the games were mostly nearly solved before they start
MSmits: with 8 cores this is gonna be crazy
jacek: :scream:
MSmits: well the game solves at ply 30 for most people
MSmits: if you build a meta mcts tree, you easily get to 20 or beyond
MSmits: so you can imagine what happens
TundraShow: すっかりコンテスト忘れてた人(期間中まったくログインしなかった)
Twitterやってないと感想も共有できないのつらい
Tiramon: TundraShow in this channel plz type english
MSmits: go here #twittertalk
struct: #jp
The_xD: hi me new here
Tiramon: that happend to most of us ;)
MSmits: can you distinguish Japanese from other asian alphabets struct?
Tiramon: google translate can do that ..
MSmits: oh nvm, you just looked at flag
struct: yeah flag
MSmits: maybe he was just posting an opening book he found on twitter
MSmits: it looked like jaceks
struct: lol
Astrobytes: jacek's are chinese characters no?
MSmits: i think maybe his book is multilingual
Wontonimo: hi The_xD
Astrobytes: Japanese is quite distinguishable from Chinese
MSmits: oh I don't doubt that
MSmits: but you need to spend a few minutes to get the difference
MSmits: like the difference between a goose and a swan
MSmits: or a toad and a frog
Tiramon: or atleast know one of both ;)
MSmits: or that yeah
Wontonimo: there's a difference between a goose and a swan?
MSmits: yep
MSmits: many i guess
AntiSquid: the japanese alphabets are somewhat more "readable" than chinese :D
MSmits: Astrobytes knows, he's the expert on stuff that lives
Wontonimo: if you are kayaking and either attacks you, you'r fd
jacek: weeb language is simpler
jacek: and that was terrible opening book
Astrobytes: If you're anywhere and either attacks you you're fked
MSmits: lol
ZarthaxX: hello
MSmits: hi ZarthaxX
struct: hi
ZarthaxX: howdy all
Astrobytes: I've been chased by both but only bitten by a swan :D
Astrobytes: hey Zarthooo
MSmits: oh, I did not know you had personal experience with these
ZarthaxX: Astrobaytooooo
AntiSquid: i've been chased by a squirrel a few times, think they want nuts
Astrobytes: People use geese as guards on their property and there are loads of swans round my way
Wontonimo: https://www.reddit.com/r/jacksepticeye/comments/gzbqs9/these_fcking_canadian_geese/
MSmits: why are you trying to sneak onto people's property Astrobytes
Astrobytes: :rofl:
Astrobytes: Farms and more rural properties I mean.
Astrobytes: I've only been chased when I was a kid and we were nicking apples
MSmits: aha!
MSmits: beats a farmer with a gun
Astrobytes: Oh we had those too
Astrobytes: Firing salt/pepper cartridges at your legs
Astrobytes: Bloody painful!
MSmits: I'm thinking you already won at life really, no further achievements necessary
MSmits: guns, wild animals, jeez
Wontonimo: AstroGrills
Astrobytes: Took a shortcut across a field and got chased by a herd of cows too.
MSmits: because why not
Tiramon: things i missed in life ... but won't ever miss =)
Astrobytes: And a bull jumped a fence once and chased us, managed to get over the big stone wall just in time
Astrobytes: That was the scariest tbh
Tiramon: sounds pretty scary
MSmits: no sht
Astrobytes: I could feel it's breath as I was scaling the wall
Wontonimo: i heard a farmer posted a sign on his property "Unless you can cross this field in 10sec, you wont outrun the bull"
Astrobytes: It's true!
Astrobytes: They are fking fast
Astrobytes: Thankfully the wall was right near the fence or we would have been mauled
MSmits: I only ever get attacked by my dog
MSmits: its motto is: Attack first, identify later
Astrobytes: hahaha
MSmits: not kidding :P
MSmits: have to make sure she knows it;s me
MSmits: it's a small dog, not much damage
Astrobytes: Shout before you walk in the door etc
MSmits: yea
Astrobytes: My paternal grandparents had a violent pug with no teeth.
MSmits: funny
MSmits: must have been hard to eat though
Astrobytes: It used to try and suck your hand as aggressively as it could
Astrobytes: It had some teeth but not at the front
MSmits: ahh o
MSmits: k
Astrobytes: It used to growl and huff and puff while you laughed at it.
MSmits: it's weird, my dog can go completely psycho in 1 second and become super nice in another
MSmits: predictably though
Astrobytes: Dogs for ya. Cats are the same
Astrobytes: But unpredictably.
MSmits: yeah was gonna say
MSmits: try not to pet a random cat on the street
MSmits: often it will be ok
MSmits: sometimes they will jump up and grab your neck
Astrobytes: 'Try not to' - impossible.
MSmits: lol
MSmits: we had a random cat a little ways away from the house that walked a street we had to avoid
MSmits: one time we walked through there and it hunted our dog
miszu: Good morning children. question for opening in othello. How many moves in advance do you put in your opening?
MSmits: i had to pick my dog up and carry it for like 200 m.
MSmits: before it gave up
Astrobytes: hahaha
MSmits: it literally jumped to grab our doh
MSmits: dog
Astrobytes: Yeah, seen a lot of cats tormenting dogs
MSmits: our dog is cat size, but a dog and cat of same size... no contest. Save your dog lol
Astrobytes: I've seen 'em go for bigger dogs too. Depends on the temperament/breed of the dog.
MSmits: when i was younger our house cat escaped, we found her 4 houses away on the back of a huge dogs which was whining and running around
MSmits: huge dog
Astrobytes: hahahaha
Astrobytes: that's epic
MSmits: yea, hmm first day outside, what to do
Astrobytes: My friend had a Dogo Argentino, it got a cat once. It actually jumped off a 2nd floor balcony to chase it. That did not end well.
MSmits: you cant just pull a cat off either. My mom got some serious scratches
Astrobytes: Yeah, they hang on for grim life
MSmits: yeah just leave the cat alone
MSmits: they're not just mean to dogs either
Astrobytes: All creatures great and small
MSmits: they play real dirty
MSmits: like pretend to be chill and then wait till the other cat turns around
MSmits: dogs dont do that, they dont understand this behavior
MSmits: 100% honest
Astrobytes: So true :D
MSmits: they also practice sneaking on random people, just for giggles
MSmits: you will see them following you through yards of houses
MSmits: when you pass them
Astrobytes: Stalking
MSmits: one time i walked for 15 min with a cat after me i entered my home and took a nap in front of my front door like it was waiting for me to come out and play
MSmits: it took a nap i mean
Astrobytes: Was gonna say :P
MSmits: hehe
Marchete: cat's whisperer
reCurse: This chat o.0
ill-be-waiting-outside: hi
miszu: btw reCurse congrats on winning the competition. I just noticed now you finished 1st and actually did a submission.
reCurse: Thanks
Astrobytes: hey at least we're talking :P
Alshock: @miszuI guess at first you noticed he was first and then were surprised that he submitted
reCurse: Oh not complaining, just funny to be the first thing to come to
Astrobytes: :)
jacek: :upside_down:
jacek: if your policy output is 38, that mean GROW, COMPLETE and SEED in the same cell share their visits?
reCurse: I literally coded COMPLETE as a GROW
reCurse: Because there is zero overlap
Marchete: I think it's good
reCurse: I also pruned SEED to only have one source
reCurse: So yes, policy is hex grid + 1 for wait
MSmits: oh.. i did that too
MSmits: the 1 source seed
MSmits: didnt do sht for my bot, same rank, but it seemed like a really good idea :0
reCurse: I mainly did it so the policy size does not go out of control
MSmits: in my case it was because i hardcoded seed to be the last action of my day
MSmits: so who cares which tree it comes from
reCurse: I'm still curious if there is more safe pruning to do
reCurse: I noticed my bot wasted a lot of time on seeds still
MSmits: i did grow 3 before 2 before 1
MSmits: did you do that?
reCurse: No
MSmits: seems only to matter when reacting to opponent
Wontonimo: my 1 source was randomized. i think in your PM recurs you used the largest tree
reCurse: Yeah I made it deterministic
reCurse: To give a chance for the NN to rely on something
reCurse: I guess ordering grows is 100% safe
reCurse: Not sure if that's where most of the time is wasted
MSmits: well except when reacting to opponent
reCurse: I'm fairly sure it's seeds
reCurse: What do you mean
MSmits: well if he knows you grow something to 3, he can react
MSmits: if you do it later, he cant
reCurse: Oh gotcha
MSmits: but then its more expensive... so prolly not worth it
MSmits: if you grow out of order it costs +1 sun
MSmits: considering how close top games are
Vova_s: growing 3 before 2 before 1 could be a bad thing. That is when you can grow aither two trees of size 1 and 2 or one tree of size 3 in single day
MSmits: +1 sun is huge
reCurse: Well it doesn't mean you can't grow 2
reCurse: It's just you can't grow 3 after 2
reCurse: So it's ordering pruning
MSmits: Vova_s i dont mean favor growing 3
MSmits: i mean if you already know which ones you're growing on a day
MSmits: grow the big ones first
jrke: maybe even growing the tree which are less on map
jrke: saving extra sunpoint
Vova_s: ah, in that case, sure, you should grow biggest tree first
MSmits: yeah, that was my point
MSmits: but the small counterpoint is that if you grow a tree to 3 first, the opponent knows which tree is going to cause more shading and use that info
tobk: I thought about that too, grow the largest first (not to end up with many half-baked trees in the last turn) or most cost-effective
MSmits: to make his own decision
MSmits: but as i said +1 sun is huge so...
putibuzu: Yes. I think you have to take into account the opponent and shading
tobk: ended up growing biggest-first to play it safe (it's all pretty hard-coded), but might make it depend on the day or something
reCurse: Next time I get serious I'll write a full mcts visualization
Wontonimo: if it is the "best" decision, and the opponent is sane, then it should be done anyways
reCurse: This opaqueness is starting to drive me nuts
MSmits: I kinda have half of that in my meta mcts, but text only
reCurse: Nah text is not enough
MSmits: i mean, i can zoom up and down the tree and select nodes
KareemTheDream: how do i do this clash code thing idk how to do it
reCurse: Needs a proper UI to dig
MSmits: but they dont appear as circles and stuff
MSmits: just lists of children
Wontonimo: do you have an example image from the web of what you are thinking of for visualization
tobk: I'd just wish they'd come up with better names at least when the contests go MP. "My Neighbor Codetoro" would spring to mind...
reCurse: They used to do that
MSmits: tobk they had those before
MSmits: go 2 yrs back for this
reCurse: Switched to Season Challenge for... branding reasons?
ZarthaxX: have you seen this reCurse https://www.elgrapho.com/
reCurse: I don't know
ZarthaxX: dont know if it helps
tobk: exactly, and now it's just "[Season] Challenge [Year]" forever?
reCurse: Yeah Wontonimo check his website
reCurse: The tree example
reCurse: That's what I'm talking about
reCurse: With the game state displayed on the right
jrke: tobk you forgot Codingame at first
jrke: "Codingame [Season] Challenge [Year]"
MSmits: which website reCurse?
reCurse: Zarthax's
MSmits: oh the link
MSmits: looks cool yeah
jrke: this onw - https://www.elgrapho.com?
Wontonimo: https://codepen.io/ericdrowell/pen/qLYrEm
ZarthaxX: i think i showed you this already MSmits
jrke: one*
MSmits: yeah i remember
reCurse: I'd probably use colors to expose some information
reCurse: Like visits, score, etc
MSmits: i just wasnt sure if this was you showing me
ZarthaxX: haha :P
reCurse: And a slider to scrub through all iterations
reCurse: etc
MSmits: people show me good stuff all the time :0
MSmits: forget who shows what
ZarthaxX: gotta take notes smito
MSmits: yeah i guess so :0
ZarthaxX: ohhh the slider seems like acool idea
Wontonimo: watcha thinking ? something like dump state to file, use something else to render it like javascript in html?
MSmits: oh wow, if you're going to store iterations then the storage will be huuuuge
reCurse: I still hit the inner reflex where I stop when I think I say too much
MSmits: reCurse dont worry about sharing the visual tool ideas, these ideas are not why you win
ZarthaxX: true
Wontonimo: cuz if it's a dump to file then browse, i'd be happy to contribute to that project
reCurse: You say that but
MSmits: the actual building of them is and the ideas you get during contest
MSmits: yes but you *do* it
MSmits: others can have these ideas
reCurse: Most of the progress in whatever work I do is usually done through such tools
MSmits: of course
MSmits: but they are not particularly inventive. You're just good at building them and you actually invest time
MSmits: the inventiveness is in the bot
reCurse: Alright, fine
reCurse: I might not be competitive for a long time for all I know
reCurse: I was thinking of hosting a REST server in the C++ bot
Marchete: child?
reCurse: And using web frontend
reCurse: So you don't need storage
Astrobytes: Clever
Marchete: I'm lost, but it's ok
reCurse: I mean it feels good to share stuff
reCurse: But as I mentioned in forums
reCurse: I also get the impression when I do that I slowly sign retirement
Marchete: to be honest
reCurse: And it breaks my heart :)
Wontonimo: you'd need to keep the process running, so not good for brutal tester
ZarthaxX: no way lol
MSmits: yep, also, I tend to share more if i perform worse. I totally get shutting down on sharing when you're winning :P
Marchete: your last sentence seemed a farewell to me, recurse
putibuzu: Knowing in principle how to smth is very different from actually doing it, especially when it comes to this NN stuff
reCurse: It might be, it might not, I don't know
reCurse: If it happens it won't be an official thing
reCurse: It's just gonna happen
MSmits: I sense that you think you need to make some final decision. Pb 4 retired before
MSmits: and came back
MSmits: and won some
reCurse: Not going to lie I'm nervous about it
Marchete: yeah, sometimes it's cyclic
reCurse: Don't know what to expect :)
jacek: addict reaction
Marchete: if it's about the child, it will be fine, I had mine around your age
MSmits: dont worry so much about the cg side of things. It should not feel like an obligation anyways. You've won a bunch here, noone can take that away anyway. Just come here when you have time
Wontonimo: don't psych yourself out. Admit that it is actually hard after having achieved num1 becuase the tendency is to make that now your new standard
struct: you can still have fun and not be competitive
Marchete: :D
MSmits: that last one is a bridge too far struct :P
MSmits: dont think he can do that :P
Astrobytes: I think he was subtly using the CG 5% thing
struct: yeah
MSmits: ahh ok
Astrobytes: *95%
Marchete: CoC and its random invites will always be there for you :grin:
MSmits: lol
Astrobytes: The schoolkids will always be waiting...
MSmits: find an escape room to relax in
Marchete: a hardcore escape room can be fun. I thought about it some time ago
jacek: oO
Wontonimo: i still haven't tried the escape room here
Marchete: I mean more like an optim puzzle
Marchete: having N puzzles inside, and each one gives points and give codes for other puzzles
Wontonimo: i've tried the in-person escape room thing. i suck at it
MSmits: sure, stuff like that could be ok Marchete
Marchete: I even had some of them :D
MSmits: I prefer just doing random puzzles on my own probably
MSmits: i suck at teamwork
Wontonimo: the great thing about solo work is not having to manage other peoples reaction to my frustration rage fits
KalamariKing: Exactly!
MSmits: lol
ththththt: I love ma daily java
MSmits: I just become really slow and indecisive in a team
MSmits: either make me boss or let me work on my own :)
jacek: wood boss?
MSmits: sure
MSmits: i've never had a bot that became boss before :(
MSmits: i guess they dont like search bots
ZarthaxX: because you are alwaysa on top ;)
MSmits: nahh, at one time maybe
ZarthaxX: trying to cheer you up
MSmits: i know, thanks. I am ok though :)
MSmits: cant wait till i have some free time to get into the nn thing
Krakenus00: How do you get that cool contest badge as eulerscheZahl has?
MSmits: not sure what you mean
struct: search bots = more cost
MSmits: but euler has a lot of cool
Astrobytes: CG Premium Account
MSmits: wait what
ZarthaxX: oh no NNSmits
ZarthaxX: D:
Astrobytes: How does the CG Premium Account thing still reel people in?!
MSmits: ohh, he did a badge in his about page
Astrobytes: *Why
MSmits: I'm easy pickins Astrobytes
Astrobytes: :grin:
MSmits: Krakenus00 it's just his profile
Astrobytes: He embedded it there a few contests back
MSmits: you can put anything in that part
Krakenus00: Yeah, I know, but where did he get that?
MSmits: oh, good question, maybe he made it himself
MSmits: but he also has "connections"
struct: I think they emailed it on the prveious contest
Marchete: you can put images there...
Astrobytes: Yeah, that's what it was struct
MSmits: ahh ok
MSmits: it's kinda weird, i mean he did like 20 contests
MSmits: now it seems like he did 1
MSmits: he needs to make 20 badges now
Marchete: unnecessary task succesfully completed
MSmits: I'm guessing this might be euler humor though
MSmits: often i get it, but sometimes i just sense it right beyond my capabilities
Krakenus00: I've just found that badge in google, xd
MSmits: well go put it in your profile
icecream17: I just came back, and i've been promoted to gold? Any news on spring challenge?
Krakenus00: It's over
Vry: gg icecream17
Wontonimo: well, it's now a multi here https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming/spring-challenge-2021
Wontonimo: keep on going!
davilla: say what? how do I go premium?
Astrobytes: lol
Nerchio: seems like its a long way to properly write a winning NN ;)
Astrobytes: Don't worry, it's just a meme
davilla: take my money!
davilla: also a meme :-P
Astrobytes: :D
GlitchFox: i cant with this mars lanidng level i dont get it
Wontonimo: which one GlitchFox?
GlitchFox: the level 1-fist contact(ik i get,im a noob)
TheBatMan_TM: which is the best online ide for web application development with terminal?
TheBatMan_TM: someone please respond
Astrobytes: I don't know.
non5: repl.it?
TheBatMan_TM: anything else?
TheBatMan_TM: except repl.it
davilla: yes
davilla: I don't know what that means
davilla: sorry, best response I got
non5: aws cloud9
BeardedJotunn: Is there a rule on this site or something that you always round answers, and that you always round down? Someone asking for a distance in meters doesn't mean whole meters to me, 8.549m is in meters. But when dealing with distance rounding down definitely makes no sense, but I've seen it in a few clashes now.
non5: ?
TheBatMan_TM: aws cloud9?
non5: ys
TheBatMan_TM: is that free?
davilla: BeardedJotunn make a comment in feedback, it should be in the description not a rule
KalamariKing: BeardedJotunn I don't believe so, although maybe
9gress0r: it's free but you need an account
TheBatMan_TM: ohk
TheBatMan_TM: ty
9gress0r: hey, is it a bag? when i enter a loops lessons here, it opens just a blank page
GlitchFox: how do you change the verical speed of the lander someone pls respond
9gress0r: what should i do
GlitchFox: u refreshed?
BeardedJotunn: Alright, yeah I made a comment on that one for sure, keep doing that. Not sure I should complain on all the ones that expect you to round without telling me, because that's soooo many :P
9gress0r: yep
BeardedJotunn: Thanks!
9gress0r: there are just my progress bar
9gress0r: thats all
9gress0r: and definition of loops
jacek: mars lander 1?
Wontonimo: Hey GlitchFox, so try alternating between thrust 4 and 3 every other round
Krakenus00: GlitchFox just thrust
Krakenus00: I've completed the first level just with 0 and 4
rohrokz: any java bois here?
KalamariKing: possibly
KalamariKing: why
creeperZnation4: What's up?
Krakenus00: reject Java
embrace C++
creeperZnation4: Did u just wanna know how many of us are here XD
creeperZnation4: I'm convinced that C++ is just D
creeperZnation4: Ok that was a bad joke
creeperZnation4: XD
Krakenus00: I C
Krakenus00: btw
creeperZnation4: yeah?
Krakenus00: does anyone use Clojure?
creeperZnation4: Can't say I've heard of it
Krakenus00: I've never heard about it before joining CG xd
rohrokz: what is it
creeperZnation4: Care to explain XD
Krakenus00: Programming language
creeperZnation4: Ah ok
Krakenus00: Oh
Krakenus00: It just a Java Lisp
KalamariKing: wdym
KalamariKing: how can a programming language have a lisp
creeperZnation4: lol XD
jacek: java html
creeperZnation4: can you mix java and html together?
creeperZnation4: like not with applets and api calls and whatnot
Krakenus00: creeperZnation4 do you mean JHTML?
https://www.theserverside.com/definition/JHTML-Java-within-Hypertext-Markup-Language
Marchete: in alphazero there is a thing about temperature, but in some documents they say temp=1.0, hence not using it (because c_puct can be tweaked for that), it's right?
jacek: afair they use temp=1 for first 30 moves then temp=0 (exploit) for the rest
AllYourTrees: lol reCurse i think i found some untrained state space https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/558036339
AllYourTrees: is that related to your win percentage getting to high that you mentioned in your post?
reCurse: Let me check
Marchete: not on root, no?
reCurse: Starting to massively overcorrect on turn 30 o.0
reCurse: Sounds like it
Marchete: I need to review that more
reCurse: The problem with my hack is it can start doing stupid stuff
reCurse: Like cutting trees early to boost score
jacek: Marchete if youre refering to softmax temperature, its about choosing the final move
reCurse: I usually rely on the win % dropping enough so regular NN can go back and play
jacek: more exploration is done via dirichlet noise applied to root
AllYourTrees: ahhh ya
reCurse: But it could also create too much damage
reCurse: A proper solution would fix those issues, but I wasn't going to restart a training on the last day
AllYourTrees: fair
reCurse: I might try out of curiosity
reCurse: But take the next few days of a contest with a huge grain of salt
reCurse: There's leftover motivation that turns out to be unfounded soon after
reCurse: Contest adrenaline wearing off, something like that
AllYourTrees: lol i've felt that before
AllYourTrees: i haven't been able to sustain motivation outside of the contest
AllYourTrees: i always am like oh yeah i can just work on this whenever nice
AllYourTrees: and then i dont :|
reCurse: Not a bad thing
reCurse: I suspect I burned out a few times because of that
AllYourTrees: good point
Marchete: ahhhhh normalized visits
Marchete: I get it
AllYourTrees: alright see ya'll later :wave:
Marchete: no I don't lol
reCurse: :wave:
Al_ir_eza00: hello guys whats up?
Al_ir_eza00: :smiley:
Wontonimo: just chatting about the competition that just ended
Wontonimo: what up with you?
jacek: hmm this policy isnt that hard. quick & dirty hacks allowed me for a little inferior bot than mine
eulerscheZahl: nice, dice duel already approved. and once again I forgot the cover image
jacek: then who the ^&!@ approved it :rage:
jrke: jacek one of those approvals belongs to you also
jacek: :innocent:
eulerscheZahl: that's the joke
Wontonimo: that was past jace, this is present jace
Marchete: eulerscheZahl, your badge image in the profile is some kind of joke?
struct: Where is the badge for this contest, did they not email it?
eulerscheZahl: no, i really participated in that contest
Marchete: and 23 others
eulerscheZahl: nope, no badge for spring
struct: but they made one ...
jacek: this is his participation medal
eulerscheZahl: last time they sent one per email and i wasn't sure what to do with it other than that
struct: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0y1q0SXsAE9ZOl?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
jrke: looks great struct
eulerscheZahl: maybe they send an email without the stuff around, then I can add this to my profile too
eulerscheZahl: for the 95%
Marchete: many top 10 and you put a participation medal. Smits thought it was some kind of elaborated joke
reCurse: It is
eulerscheZahl: they didn't send be a badge for those placements ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
ProjectKoe257: I need some help in coders strike back
jacek: mhm
fenrir: reCurse: for the hack on value, it might be because tanh is saturing out, making every move look the same (I had an issue like that sometimes), using +/- 0.5 instead kinda work
fenrir: (in case you are using tanh for the value head)
jacek: use relu for value, then there is no losing :v
reCurse: +/- 0.5? What do you mean
fenrir: +0.5 for a win, -0.5 for a loss
reCurse: How would it help though?
fenrir: it leaves room above 0.5
reCurse: But what defines it?
jacek: oh right, how can you go above 1.0 with tanh
cegprakash: I have a feeling my eval and euler's eval is almost the same.. https://forum.codingame.com/t/spring-challenge-2021-feedbacks-strategies/190849/9?u=cegprakash may be I should have increased depth and tried.. also I did similar opp prediction with only one opponent who always Grows
cegprakash: but I ended up only in gold 300 with minimax at depth 1.. I tried GA at a depth of 5 and I could reach gold 400
reCurse: I mean how would it get 0.5 to 1? It seems like it might be random
cegprakash: and it was worser than my minimax
cegprakash: I mean GA at a depth of 5 days
cegprakash: minimax at a depth of 1 frame
cegprakash: my 1 frame minimax performed better than GA at depth 5
fenrir: the NN may overestimate the value and so be a little above 0.5, but the action ranking may be valid
reCurse: Hmm
reCurse: I don't know if it's a reliable overestimation though
reCurse: Could be worth a shot
reCurse: Another idea I had is to remove the tanh past a certain value
reCurse: And also cross fingers
fenrir: when I tried qlearning, it did help
reCurse: Interesting
fenrir: the value was not accurated, but the ranking was
reCurse: Thanks for the hint
fenrir: not sure it will help but...
fenrir: you can also use a linear output, but I don't think it is better than reducing the output range with tanh
Marchete: half the range is not a lot?
fenrir: I tried 0.5 et 0.8, were similar in my tests
Marchete: ahh, ok
fenrir: but yeah 0.8 might also work well
reCurse: I think tanh helps for the vast majority of cases
Krakenus00: Yeah, now I have that cool badge
reCurse: But it's possible some contrast can be had if it starts outputting big values that are invisible after tanh
reCurse: But I really have doubts on its accuracy
fenrir: the issue is than tanh() +/- 0.5 make it near linear
reCurse: Or even its validity
fenrir: but it is better than linear as it acts a bit like a soft clip to avoid propagating large wrong value (at least in the begining)
fenrir: and cliping create the same issue, flatten everything
Chainman: Oh cool I got 3.6k codingame points from the springchallenge 2021
reCurse: Hmm
reCurse: This reminds me of soft labels
reCurse: Hmm
reCurse: Definitely potential there
cegprakash: miklla what a legend
cegprakash: used DP
cegprakash: while we were all searching
fenrir: and the gradient get killed when near +/-1
Wontonimo: something that helped with one of my NNs (not CG) was something that was called visual loss. There is this problem of using abs(signal) or sqr(signal)
fenrir: so hard to go back from it when learned a wrong value
reCurse: Yeah it's quite insightful fenrir
reCurse: Makes me think of a few things
Wontonimo: where abs(signal) gave very crisp results but everything was muted, and sqr(result) gave blurry results but high contrast. using both was magic
Wontonimo: so, perhaps you can use tanh for the crisp win/loss, but also add in a small linear signal to give some gradient
fenrir: so probably a tradeoff between easier learning but making it a bit harder to learn some value
fenrir: I mean not on the same case
Wontonimo: maybe : tanh(score) + 0.1*tanh(score/20)
reCurse: I'm just curious if it will end up having something > 0.5 translate into winning more reliably
Wontonimo: the second tanh(score/20) will give sensitivity to greater spread in winning)
Chainman: In the email they said "Mai 6-17 2021"
reCurse: Or if it will be random noise leftover from linear coefficients
fenrir: unsure, I know in my case it made learning more stable but unsure if you have a stable learning if it helps
reCurse: Like soft labeling helps with the gradient issue you mention
reCurse: Which is the same trick, use 0.9-hot encoding
reCurse: To leave some room
reCurse: But what goes above is quite undefined
reCurse: Yeah I don't know maybe it helps in other ways if not with the 'winning more' issue
fenrir: another way I would see is using a gamma (on day) even if not really needed, but maybe that will make training harder
reCurse: No clue :) Many things to try for sure
Chainman: does the rank change in multiplayer version of spring challenge 2021?
fenrir: yeah, but it's hard to be sure of the result, not sure how you trainig was reproductible, but depending in the seed, the exact learning rate scheduling, etc a lot changes
reCurse: Oh yeah tell me about it... I kind of give up making sense of what really helps vs what doesn't and rely on instinct/experience...
fenrir: yeah, if we had a server farm, then a good old grid search, otherwise...
jacek: clop :v
reCurse: It's really tough in that kind of RL setting, how long should let it train for before comparing against other agents, etc
reCurse: I kind of just reused the same run that started working and piling on it
fenrir: I had seen an article that show that the main gain of PPO was due to everything but the main PPO change
reCurse: Oh yeah I saw that
reCurse: Implementation matters :)
fenrir: yep :)
jacek: PPO?
reCurse: Was funny if not sad
fenrir: Proximal Policy Optimization
reCurse: The holy grail of OpenAI
reCurse: For Dota 2 among others
fenrir: this one I failed to have good result with it in self-play
fenrir: not sure why
reCurse: I only tried it to train a runner in CSB
reCurse: Completely destroyed all others
reCurse: In terms of training speed etc
fenrir: a runner alone ?
reCurse: Yeah
fenrir: yes that ok, but in self play I failed to have good result
reCurse: I used that as a benchmark to compare different ways
fenrir: not sure why
reCurse: Yeah self play is hard
reCurse: That's why I stuck to "how long for a good runner"
reCurse: Very quick and measurable
fenrir: ok
reCurse: I wanted to try getting it to work for self-play
reCurse: But I kind of gave up on model-free approaches
fenrir: if you do and it works for you, I would like to know (toknow that I have to look for bug in my code :))
reCurse: Hehe noted
reCurse: I just plugged my mcts nodes into a graph lib, nice snowflake
reCurse: This is getting too dangerous of a time sink
jacek: :tada:
Wontonimo: navigating 20,000 nodes should be no problem. 5 hours later...
reCurse: Can even drag nodes and it reacts with physics
reCurse: https://github.com/anvaka/VivaGraphJS
reCurse: Nerding out
Chainman: what is snowflake reCurse?
reCurse: Graph layout
reCurse: Can't paste pictures in webchat and too lazy to find image hosting
jacek: imageshack.us eh
Chainman: https://www.flerlagetwins.com/2016/12/introducing-snowflake-chart_69.html
Chainman: I'm guessing something like this?
reCurse: A little bit yeah
reCurse: Except it looks like a literal snowflake
reCurse: https://imgur.com/a/4crec80
ClockSort: where can i find bronze (full) rules to UTTT?
ClockSort: or do i have to code a bot to find out? haha
ClockSort: @reCurse i've been enjoying your only YT videos. thanks for not deleting :D
reCurse: yw
struct: daily reminder :D
jacek: ClockSort https://github.com/CodinGame/game-ultimate-tictactoe
MSmits: ClockSort it's really really easy to get to bronze
eulerscheZahl: ClockSort always print the first legal action and you'll promote
ClockSort: not if you play random moves, apparently.
MSmits: just code something like prefer center, otherwise corner or something
ClockSort: it's crazy that isn't working
jrke: jacek bronze rules are not there i think
jrke: only 2 levels are there
ClockSort: i have to write a three-in-a-row finder maybe :(
MSmits: there are only two games jrke
Wontonimo: i thought there were only 2 levels of rules
MSmits: normal TTT and 9 board TTT (uttt)
ClockSort: wood1 and bronze?
jacek: here you go https://github.com/jdermont/tictactoe-ntuple/blob/main/game.h
MSmits: wood 1 and everything else
MSmits: oh lol
MSmits: I actually worked through that entire thing jacek
ClockSort: not ok @jacek, i'm not a cheater :D
struct: https://github.com/benedekrozemberczki/awesome-monte-carlo-tree-search-papers
struct: Might be usefull for someone
MSmits: ClockSort its not a bot
jacek: entire thing?
struct: read it all jacek
MSmits: your ntuple system
jacek: ah
MSmits: for TTT
MSmits: know what all the lines of code do :)
MSmits: thanks
ClockSort: it's a good piece of a bot
jacek: *bookmarked* not to never look at it again
MSmits: for a game where all you do is print first legal action to win :P
jacek: its bitboard, youll gonna need it later
ClockSort: i'll make a better bitboard than this
jrke: so i was right during contest that my BS needs a better eval
MSmits: make tritboard :)
LeviathanProgramming: Hey guys, if you want to win more clashes, a trick is to launch it off when it's just you and another person
LeviathanProgramming: That's what I do
LeviathanProgramming: I just start before the really good clashers join
jacek: start clash then leave :imp:
Kingasasin177: Bonjour
ClockSort: backup strat: become really good clasher
Chainman: lol,
Kingasasin177: Then no one wants to go against you
Wontonimo: even better
ClockSort: clash annoys me because golfing
MSmits: ye when I play clash I always think, man even golf would be more fun
jacek: you play clash? oO
Kingasasin177: Good thing you can golf code
ClockSort: ...
MSmits: i did 50 times
MSmits: thats a lot you know
MSmits: they forced me to do it because quest map
jacek: no one 'forced' you
jacek: the gamification worked
MSmits: yeah
MSmits: they gamificated me
Krakenus00: Get gamificated
Krakenus00: Actually, it is not that bad
Krakenus00: Btw I learned Python and Ruby only to win in CoC
Kingasasin177: Python can be a bit cheaty in some scenarios compared to other languages
Krakenus00: What about ruby with its "p" command for printing?
Krakenus00: However, I've been winning in fastest modes with C++, so Python is not that big pain in the ass
jrke: that was bit late - https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/754236586769645569/844266976964509706/late.JPG :(
Saphine: Happens
Saphine: :grimacing:
LeviathanProgramming: I only use JS
Saphine: Js is good
Wontonimo: I only use assembly, but usually indirectly
ClockSort: you need ruby to win golf
ClockSort: and i don't have ruby
ClockSort: therefore i don't win golf
ClockSort: i golf in JS and it hurts.
jacek: try in golf fields
struct: you need perl
jacek: all you need is love
Krakenus00: all you need is O(n log n) sorting algorithm
Kingasasin177: Dang, I just had a clash of code that had geometry math that I didn't know because of covid rip
KalamariKing: lmao
KalamariKing: what was it I wanna see if I know
Kingasasin177: My geometry class did not teach us anything besides intro to sin, cos, tan
KalamariKing: was it the geometric mean coc?
Kingasasin177: It's just asking to find the area of a shape based on number of sides and side lengths but I don't know how to do that one rip
KalamariKing: oh rip
jacek: rip?
Kingasasin177: Rest in peace
KalamariKing: shred
Astrobytes: *Rust In Peace
KalamariKing: *Ripped into pieces
Kingasasin177: I don't imagine everyone here enjoys Rust
jacek: this? https://www.codingame.com/contribute/view/580168af25a8e70662809b955cb68d9737dd
Astrobytes: It's a Megadeth album.
pmor: They must be too young to experience the tranquility of Megadeth
Kingasasin177: Yeah thats it jacek
Astrobytes: Guess so pmor :/
Kingasasin177: I'm decent at math but I don't know enough of it to be good in things like that
Krakenus00: Hm, I learned that in school
Wontonimo: i know enough math to know that 2+2=5 for large enough 2s
Kingasasin177: I did not Krakenus rip
Krakenus00: You just need to split that polygon into triangles, find their area and multiply it by their count
Kingasasin177: My geometry class was 50% proofs, 40% introductory sin, cos, tan, and 50% covid online
Kingasasin177: More like 70-80% proofs
Wontonimo: yeah, that sounds like what my geometry hs class was like also
jacek: 50%+40%+50% = 140%, dat math
Krakenus00: Did covid really hit all your education? Cause at university I feel the same, maybe even better.
Kingasasin177: I'm not in uni
Krakenus00: I understand, that's why I'm asking
Kingasasin177: and yeah it effected it pretty badly, I learned nothing during spring semester last year and had to go most of this school year online which hurt my grades and learning a decent amount
Chainman: Can I pop out this chat, it is very uncomfortable looking at it in a thin corner of screen.
Kingasasin177: I do agree it is uncomfortable having to use this chat but I'm used to it cause of twitch
jacek: add ?disableChat in url
davilla: who had the math question?
Chainman: no that just removes chat,
Chainman: I want to see chat
Kingasasin177: he wants chat to be bigger
Astrobytes: He means pop it out into a separate window jacek. No, unfortunately.
jacek: ?makeThisChatBiggerAndPopOut
Chainman: lol
Chainman: serio?
Astrobytes: With some CSS fiddling yes
Krakenus00: Just ctrl + "+" xd
Kingasasin177: Gotta love url queries
Chainman: That is not optimal Krakenus00
davilla: oh Kraken already answered the math question
Kingasasin177: Yeah, what he said is pretty much what I did but it didn't work out 100% because of the fact that there were triangles and stuff as well
davilla: https://calcresource.com/geom-ngon.html
davilla: seems like you'd have to draw it out, even if you knew exactly what you were doing
davilla: honestly I think I would have cheated :-P
Chainman: That's a nice math problem.
Chainman: TotoZero, that's a good name
Wontonimo: if you want full window chat use the following command in
$(".left-column").remove() ; $(".chat-wrapper").width("100%") ; $(".chat").width("100%") ; $(".messages").width("100%")
Wontonimo: $(".left-column").remove() ; $(".chat-wrapper").width("100%") ; $(".chat").width("100%") ; $(".messages").width("100%")
jacek: press alt+F4 to apply
Wontonimo: (woops, sorry for the double paste)
Chainman: I tried in console, didn't do anything.
Kingasasin177: Unplug your computer to apply
davilla: try turning it off and on again
Chainman: :unamused:
Wontonimo: oh, still can't minimize screen width
Wontonimo: auto hide isn't disabled
-Noam-: wtf
-Noam-: HOLY F***ING SHIT
jacek: oO
Astrobytes: don't use bad language unnecessarily please
Astrobytes: Or I'll kick you
jacek: bloody hell
jacek: motyla noga
Wontonimo: trouble maker
-Noam-: I'm sorry but excuse me. The example was not to add all the numbers. it was something else.
jacek: clash?
-Noam-: I really don't understand what happened there
Astrobytes: cool, no probs
Astrobytes: jacek: butterfly leg?
jacek: yes
jacek: its a cursing like bloody hell
Astrobytes: haha awesome
jacek: though psiakrew would be more fit
-Noam-: Hi
Kingasasin177: So is Astrobytes a mod or something
Astrobytes: Yes.
Kingasasin177: oh dang he is
solistice: I'm trying Code vs Zombies right now
solistice: it says we have <= 100ms per turn
solistice: when can I start timing?
struct: after reading first input
jacek: after first input
Astrobytes: ^
solistice: okay cool!
solistice: thanks guys
SaltySodiums: yall got snap??
SaltySodiums: add my snap @bigbananaboy4
Astrobytes: No.
Kingasasin177: No thanks
Kingasasin177: I don't associate myself with people with explosive tendencies when in water
Krakenus00: Oh, I made a timer for the last contest. I was calculating all the things in another thread and counting the time in main. If the time runs out, I just terminate that thread and randomize move:upside_down:
jacek: That it's all just a dream and it can't be real. Face it, you're a Nightmare's meal!
Krakenus00: I left like 5ms for terminating and randomizing
jacek: randomizing?
struct: but you only have access to 1 thread?
struct: I dont understand
Marchete: 2 threads sharing a vCPU
AllYourTrees: if you cut 1 thread into infinitely small pieces, do you end up with an infinite numbe of threads?
eulerscheZahl: :(){ :|:& };:
tobk: Nice try.
Astrobytes: Well it was an appropriate response to the thread splitting question.
eulerscheZahl: the nice try is telling you to copy it into your linux terminal
struct: doesnt work on windows :(
eulerscheZahl: with WLS?
struct: on wsl it works
eulerscheZahl: did you test it?
struct: no but I read that it works
eulerscheZahl: better make sure
Astrobytes: :D
eulerscheZahl: struct left the chat
validity-check: hi guys
Astrobytes: Hello.
struct: I removed junk from my spring challenge ended up with 600 lines
eulerscheZahl: that's as many as smits has
jacek: winter wrap up winter wrap up ~
struct: I think im going back to STC
eulerscheZahl: you won't submit anyways
tobk: I ended up with ~150 LoC (sans junk), just rules/heuristic, no sim (that's part of the junk actually...)
AllYourTrees: whats stc
Astrobytes: Smash the Code
Astrobytes: Much more meaningful name than SC2020, FC 2021, SC2021, FC2021 etc
Astrobytes: *FC2020
AntiSquid: what do we call the last one? totoro or photosynthesis ?
eulerscheZahl: for me this is the bot contest where I wrote the least code since BotG which had about 60 lines less
struct: euler I only need eval since I already have the beam coded
eulerscheZahl: spring challenge 2021
struct: I think I got the beam right this time
AllYourTrees: Branch Bomb 2021
AllYourTrees: Tree Search 2021
eulerscheZahl: you want to do beam on STC?
Astrobytes: No names any more AntiSquid. Up to you to remember.
AntiSquid: kinda lame
tobk: Codetoro!
Astrobytes: Very lame.
struct: Yes
AntiSquid: after a while you will forget which one is which
Astrobytes: I already do.
struct: Yes, i want to try beam there
AntiSquid: i got a great idea to fix it though!
Astrobytes: tobk yeah something like that would have been cool
AntiSquid: why don't we merge multis into clash puzzles ?
Astrobytes: :rofl:
eulerscheZahl: pacman is an approprate name for spring 2020
eulerscheZahl: but don't try to teach me something that makes it harder than the original name (at least I can look that one up)
Astrobytes: Or Pac2020 if they didn't want to get in trouble
AntiSquid: zelda is short for fall 2020, it's the zelda witches
eulerscheZahl: i don't even know what zelda is
AllYourTrees: isn't fall 2020 a board game too?
eulerscheZahl: except for the aunt of Sabrina
Marchete: https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming/smash-the-code/leaderboard
jacek: zelda is that green guy
Marchete: better try a NNç
AllYourTrees: :scream:
struct: Marchete I have no idea how to code a NN
Astrobytes: Sabrina euler :rofl:
AntiSquid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQkjh26asaY euler
Marchete: neither me
Astrobytes: Big fan were you?
jacek: import nn. nn.code() [solved]
eulerscheZahl: at times I was, yes
AntiSquid: zelda is a princess, you play a character link in the game Legend of Zelda to save the princess
AntiSquid: kinda like mario
eulerscheZahl: then Pro7 replaced it by Malcolm in the middle which I also liked
AllYourTrees: just use a nn to code another nn
Astrobytes: I think I've seen every episode of Sabrina up until late 90s, my sister was a huge fan. It was kinda funny at times.
struct: What would be the best game to try NN?
eulerscheZahl: i've seen most of them at least. not sure if all
struct: oware?
AntiSquid: oware probably
struct: bt?
Astrobytes: Oware seems to be the standard so far.
AllYourTrees: whats oware?
Astrobytes: Oware Abapa
AntiSquid: i mean which one has lowest amount of inputs ? :P
AllYourTrees: oooh
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming/oware-abapa
struct: cya in a few years when I have my NN ready
AllYourTrees: i was thinking breakthrough could be good too
AntiSquid: we can visit you at your retirement home to catch up on your NN struct
jacek: NN for breakthrough? i dont know...
AntiSquid: wait actually what about CSB struct ?
AntiSquid: or rather Search Race optimization
struct: i have 0 experience with it
AntiSquid: no i mean for lower input count
AntiSquid: faster to train i bet
Astrobytes: that's why people use Oware
struct: my problem is not training
AntiSquid: what is it ?
AllYourTrees: https://pytorch.org/tutorials/
King_Coda: :ring:
Marchete: PCR NN
struct: implementing it
jfaixo: fall 2020 was the board game Century
AllYourTrees: pytorch has a really nice python interface, and you can even export the NN to something you can use in c++ with their c++ api
AntiSquid: search race :
One line of 6 integers !!
so imo add the coordinates of next 2 check points on top of that and you should be able to get something working
AntiSquid: no need to take into account all CP for the NN
Astrobytes: Sim is more complex. Oware sim is a dawdle.
Astrobytes: Less to worry about.
AntiSquid: no sim
AllYourTrees: how are Code of Kutulu and Mean Max?
AntiSquid: was thinking of different approach, not of NN that gives value to a move
Astrobytes: AllYourTrees: you'll have to ask them yourself I haven't seen them for a while :P
AllYourTrees: Astrobytes :facepalm:
AntiSquid: code of kutulu you can get legend with heuristics too apparently, but sim shouldn't be too hard
AntiSquid: mean max is random but fun
AntiSquid: look at replays on the leaderboard
AntiSquid: anyways, both better than totoro imo
Astrobytes: For NN approach?!
AntiSquid: i thought he meant in general
AllYourTrees: ya in general
Astrobytes: Oh ok. Then yeah I agree. But your mileage may vary of course.
AntiSquid: i recommend kutulu out of the 2
AllYourTrees: kk ty!
eulerscheZahl: have fun with it AllYouSanity
eulerscheZahl: Your*
AllYourTrees: lolol
Astrobytes: lol
eulerscheZahl: i was hoping to see you as AllYourTriangles once :(
Astrobytes: If he goes MM it'll be AllYourWater
AllYourTrees: triangles??
eulerscheZahl: AllYourRage
Astrobytes: TryangleCatch
eulerscheZahl: rage is also mean max
Astrobytes: yep
AntiSquid: https://youtu.be/mhm-4kDBhio?t=38
Astrobytes: I quite liked that movie actually. Far superior to the original Mad Max movies
eulerscheZahl: 20s ad before? tab closed
AntiSquid: lol use ublock
Astrobytes: No ad here
AntiSquid: i have no ads
eulerscheZahl: i'm still chatting with firefox that i rarely use
eulerscheZahl: laggy chat is worse in chromium
eulerscheZahl: but can't open Dice Duel in Firefox, the 3D is evil
jacek: approvers should check if the game is browser friendly
AntiSquid: need 3D game that makes you think in 3D space for your bots
AntiSquid: approvers might have better pc
Astrobytes: It's approved?
eulerscheZahl: yes
eulerscheZahl: since this morning
Astrobytes: Oh nice, I didn't see it.
jacek: and it has cover
eulerscheZahl: in firefox i didn't either :rofl:
Astrobytes: lol
Astrobytes: Hm. It's only the game view that's 3D in Dice Duel isn't it?
eulerscheZahl: the dice geometry somehow is if you want to simulate
Astrobytes: Yes, I guess the transforms would be faster.
Astrobytes: We need a full on 3D multi now
eulerscheZahl: let's say it's easier to see what's going on with a 3D viewer than in 2D
Astrobytes: True.
AntiSquid: WOLF 3D
jacek: hmm in my last battles the boss has the default avatar oO
Kingasasin177: What are you even really supposed to do to improve in Bronze league of the pod racing game
AntiSquid: depends on your bot
AntiSquid: nobody knows what you even tried
AntiSquid: ah wait, -3*vel to next check point ! :D
struct: euler why cant you open it on firefiox?
struct: firefox*
Kingasasin177: I mean I don't know what you can even do to improve, they add collisions but it's not like anyones doing much to prevent colliding so it's pretty much a 50-50 regardless of your bot
eulerscheZahl: it's just extremely laggy
eulerscheZahl: maybe hardware acceleration off
eulerscheZahl: too lazy to find the setting
AntiSquid: lol it has a full landscape background
AntiSquid: how long did that take you ?
eulerscheZahl: a skybox
eulerscheZahl: took 2 or 3 weeks for the whole thing
eulerscheZahl: not in full-time of course, just some weekend or afternoon coding
jacek: Kingasasin177 target - 3*vel [solved]
eulerscheZahl: animating the rotations was painful, had a lot of rotations around the wrong axis at first
struct: if I ever manage to make a NN Ill port arimaa
Kingasasin177: what jacek?
AntiSquid: background is just a plain image? at first i thought it's a full 3D model too :D
eulerscheZahl: no arimaa on CG, i see
eulerscheZahl: check the bottom links
eulerscheZahl: it's 6 single images
jacek: isnt aarima copyrighted?
Astrobytes: struct was gonna do it at some point in the past iirc
eulerscheZahl: isn't Onitama too?
AntiSquid: next step add extra skyboxes in config settings to switch between them
eulerscheZahl: so far no one complained :innocent:
jacek: its alright for tutorial game
AntiSquid: isn't a lot of the stuff on CG copyrighted?
Astrobytes: The people who did last contest's board game complained. On YT at least
eulerscheZahl: link?
AntiSquid: what did they complaion about ?
Astrobytes: That's why the link and credit appeared
eulerscheZahl: interesting, didn't know
Astrobytes: It's on Guarav Sen's tut video
Astrobytes: I didn't watch the video past a quick skim as it was useless, but I read the comments
struct: you can copyright the name
struct: not the game
struct: iirc
struct: but im no lawyer
eulerscheZahl: found the comment, you are right
eulerscheZahl: i mean astro is right about the comment
AntiSquid: well change name change artwork add slightly different rules
Astrobytes: Not the pinned one, did you see the other one?
eulerscheZahl: i expanded and saw a reply
eulerscheZahl: let me scroll down and read more
AntiSquid: games copy each other all the time anyway, ever heard of how many diablo clones there are ?
Astrobytes: "@Blue Orange this is our mistake, we're very sorry about it. Now, the game is mentioned in the challenge. Thank you for a great game."
AntiSquid: just finished Path of Exile today btw
Astrobytes: In the "Side Note: That's the game idea of the board game Photosynthesis. Good game :)" comment thread
jacek: you can 'finish' it?
AntiSquid: well got to act 10
eulerscheZahl: so, let's try to port Catan next and see what happens?
AntiSquid: i mean finished act 10, don't care about it anymore lol
Astrobytes: lol
AllYourTrees: PoE is pretty crazy
Kingasasin177: Rip only 66th in Bronze league of the pod racer
AllYourTrees: +1 to catan, or any game with trading would be cool (don't know if there already is)
Astrobytes: I'm guessing this is why they didn't go nuts asking for streamers this contest
AntiSquid: tons of little mechanics and things to do ... i skipped most content and just basically speed run with a fire mage
eulerscheZahl: the captain sonar guys where more happy about the CG contest. even wanted to provide some sprites. don't know why it didn't happen in the end. probably on too short notice
eulerscheZahl: but i can totally understand that photosynthesis wants credits
AntiSquid: can still happen after contest? &
Astrobytes: Yeah, most people are cool about ports, as long as there's a credit somewhere
AntiSquid: ya i'd want credit too if my board game wasn't that popular yet
eulerscheZahl: for Onitama one player even dropped me a private message telling me that it looks nice and he'll buy the board game
jacek: oh my
Astrobytes: that's awesome
jacek: i saw someone bought photosyntesis (or the hex board) to analyze the game
AllYourTrees: i kinda wanna buy photosynthesis haha
Astrobytes: Now demand a percentage from them
AllYourTrees: i think my fam would like the trees, they are beautiful
AllYourTrees: well i would also
eulerscheZahl: i want to buy it. and then sit there with my laptop playing against the others
AllYourTrees: :P
jacek: hm?
Astrobytes: lol
AllYourTrees: lets just play photosynthesis in a forest near you
eulerscheZahl: gabbek was working on something to play human vs bot. with Blazor so it's really easy to insert a C# bot (for coders of the realm)
Astrobytes: oh cool
jacek: blazor?
eulerscheZahl: i got to learn a bit of blazor on the job
eulerscheZahl: microsoft's web framework
eulerscheZahl: C# both server side and client side, no JS needed
eulerscheZahl: some overhead as you either keep a connection open to execute all the code on the server
AntiSquid: damn people still do their darnest to avoid JS
eulerscheZahl: or you send a dll and execute it via WebAssembly
jacek: so secure *.*
AntiSquid: but how will the interface bot and human work?
eulerscheZahl: that would have to be coded
eulerscheZahl: that's where the porting work goes
AntiSquid: and you can't request to play directly vs a bot on the leaderboard as a human
AntiSquid: which btw would be more interesting imo than the escape rooms
eulerscheZahl: you need 2 steps to play vs a C# bot: slightly modify the interaction protocol (if you don't want to run it as a separate process)
Astrobytes: So you could use a C++ dll? Or it would have to be WASM?
eulerscheZahl: and write a UI that can also forward the user interactions
eulerscheZahl: and a referee
Astrobytes: *converted to
eulerscheZahl: Blazor brings a .net runtime via WASM
eulerscheZahl: or you run the codes server-side, then it's more language agnostic (starting as a separate process)
Astrobytes: Yes, I was meaning server side
jacek: well i would like to play some games against the bots
Astrobytes: Interesting
eulerscheZahl: and the dll is at risk of decompilation
Astrobytes: Hm.
eulerscheZahl: maybe that will be my project for the coming holidays :thinking:
jacek: holidays?
eulerscheZahl: just a few public holidays
eulerscheZahl: Pfingsten, don't ask me how it's called in English
jacek: its in sunday
eulerscheZahl: something religious, didn't go to church in decades
jacek: unless you work on sundays
Astrobytes: Some post-Easter celebration iirc
eulerscheZahl: 13 May Thu Ascension Day National
23 May Sun Whit Sunday BB
24 May Mon Whit Monday
Astrobytes: Whit Sunday, yes
eulerscheZahl: and the day off on thursday results in a day off on friday too, my factory is closed
eulerscheZahl: i can work if i want. but i have to file a formal request for it
Astrobytes: Nice
raillou: helo
eulerscheZahl: not gonna happen obviously
Astrobytes: :D
AntiSquid: is it extra pay for those days if you work?
AntiSquid: here they put me automatically on annual leave so they don't pay me extra lol
eulerscheZahl: i have to burn overtime that i colelcted before
dbf: keep it for next contest :)
eulerscheZahl: i still have lots of holidays that i can take
eulerscheZahl: more than CG needs for contests these days :(
AntiSquid: take some for RAIC
eulerscheZahl: and raic is too long to take off
AntiSquid: or even gocoder !!
**eulerscheZahl slaps AntiSquid around a bit with a large fishbot
dbf: #1 in raic spend 2 weeks vacation for it
struct: just wait until they announce the 3 contesnts per year
jacek: ez exp https://i.imgur.com/EkbX46S.png
eulerscheZahl: i just start hating every game after 1-2 weeks, RAIC is no exception
eulerscheZahl: taking off wont result in me playing the contest
AntiSquid: why hate every game?
struct: and probably you dont gain much of an advantange for taking the days off
eulerscheZahl: there were discussions if this should be removed jacek. but also mean to those who took the effort in the past
eulerscheZahl: 3 per year?
eulerscheZahl: what are you talking about?
Astrobytes: It could be disabled and the achievement kept but that's too much work;
eulerscheZahl: 3rd is escape?
AntiSquid: they won't allow community contests ever again ? that's a bit weird
struct: https://i.imgur.com/z9ycrEz.png
eulerscheZahl: i can make a screenshot of the badge and put it next to my FC2020 participation
AntiSquid: if someone comes up with an idea everyone likes then why excluide it
Astrobytes: Were you not present for that particular discussion?
struct: not impossible == impossible
eulerscheZahl: apparently not
struct: js returns true
eulerscheZahl: thanks struct
eulerscheZahl: i muted most discord channels so i missed it
struct: np
struct: its on sc21 channel
reCurse: AntiSquid: because they want to focus on less big events
AntiSquid: not much going on in there anyway (discord)
reCurse: I mean less events, bigger events
eulerscheZahl: i muted that one really quick
reCurse: Having more community contests undermines the main ones
reCurse: That's what I understood
reCurse: From their logic
eulerscheZahl: they gave me too much hopes on tryangle catch, i won't believe it without an official announcement
AntiSquid: sure but pacman still broke records although it was right after OOC which was quite hard and a month long
reCurse: Don't argue with me I'm just paraphrasing
AntiSquid: no i am not arguing with you
eulerscheZahl: but could have been more on PAC without OOC
eulerscheZahl: (what they said)
AntiSquid: just complaining out loud basically
Astrobytes: Did you not see that whole discussion on discord AntiSquid? I'm sure you were in it somewhere.
reCurse: I know just saying :)
AntiSquid: i saw it
AntiSquid: i can't get over it lol
Astrobytes: Fair
Astrobytes: It's a daily struggle not to be overly salty publicly.
Astrobytes: For me at least.
reCurse: I took a 1-2 month break, it helped
reCurse: Not saying you should but
reCurse: Maybe?
Astrobytes: lol
AntiSquid: i am not even trying astro :D
eulerscheZahl: i went the reCurse way
Astrobytes: I did take a couple of weeks out but not as much as you 2
jacek: you curse them?
Kingasasin177: Dangit I got #5 this time
jacek: :+1:
AntiSquid: i am here for chat most of the time, not sure what you guys mean by time off anyway :D
Astrobytes: Any participation
Marchete: I went out of CG for months/years?
Marchete: it's no big deal
Marchete: just X and do other things
Kingasasin177: Dang AntiSquid being #9th on the whole site
AntiSquid: other places are in general less fun, aicrowd admins frowned at me for posting some funny AI related news, i mean seriously ...
Astrobytes: You've been like a ghost up until recently Marchete :D
Marchete: connected, saw the caht
Marchete: chat
Marchete: and logout :D
Astrobytes: occasional one liner
reCurse: The chat often makes me want to ragequit, if it was always like now it wouldn't be an issue as well :P
Astrobytes: Yep.
jacek: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/1759695e9b578d3cf91bc40aaaff013117a89bd :imp:
Marchete: :astonished:
Astrobytes: should we kick him for that?
AntiSquid: mods kick that guy
Kingasasin177: Oh no
Astrobytes: Thanks jacek :unamused:
eulerscheZahl: that's a sign. good night
Astrobytes: gn euler
struct: gn
jacek: did i scare him away?
Marchete: 10:04 you are late
AntiSquid: wow
AntiSquid: he usually leaves earlier right ?
Marchete: :rofl:
AntiSquid: it's just unusual
jacek: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/102/691/1298787074140.png
jacek: i killed the chat :(
AntiSquid: low quality troll
MrFruit: What is a high quality troll :/
Lucky30_: guys is the quest map bugy?? i have past the "reach the silver league in 2 games"
Astrobytes: Lucky30_: It's a known issue, should be OK next day or 2
Lucky30_: ok great
Lucky30_: thx Astrobytes
Astrobytes: you're welcome :)
Kingasasin177: rip, I keep getting 15000, 400, and top 10 in Bronze league, it's literally a 50/50 at this point
jacek: keep this up robo and karliso will be detronized :tada:
Astrobytes: ?
jacek: rebless favorite game
Astrobytes: yeah I just checked UTTT, I clicked with the karliso mention eventually
Astrobytes: I also didn't notice you were top 5
DomiKo: jacekmax should be top1
Astrobytes: ntuples again?
jacek: not ntuples, just nn
Astrobytes: Nice.
Astrobytes: Suppose it doesn't really need ntuples now I think of it.
Astrobytes: Nice work anyway
jacek: thankies
Astrobytes: One day I'll do that stupid game.
Astrobytes: where in the lb was robo prior to his submit?
jacek: 5th or 6th?
RoboStac: 5th (if you don't count the cancelled submit in the middle that was good against karl but bad against rec)
jacek: and there was bigger difference between top 2
Astrobytes: Gotcha. And yeah I remember the gap
Astrobytes: I won't jinx anything by commenting on the current submit
GottaDoBetter: yall i cant even pass the first ai thing
jacek: hm?
GottaDoBetter: coders strike back. the race place with the 4 circles
jacek: what league
GottaDoBetter: uhhh i honestly have no idea how to figure out what league i even am. i literally just started on here 5 minutes ago
GottaDoBetter: so very start
cegprakash: check the variable name in the print statement
cegprakash: it's wrong
Astrobytes: Another 1 or 2 submits should do it RoboStac
cegprakash: GottaDoBetter
RoboStac: do what?
Astrobytes: Pull some of the others down
RoboStac: nah, I'm negative winrate against the ones above me
RoboStac: or equal
Astrobytes: Ah, my bad
cegprakash: or push urself with another version of ur bot :D
cegprakash: just kidding
cegprakash: GottaDoBetter print nextCheckPointX and nextCheckPointY
cegprakash: the variables are misspelt there
cegprakash: so fix the spelling
GottaDoBetter: ahhh i see what you meant. thank you!
Astrobytes: ceg, come on dude. That's supposed to be a problem you have to solve.
jacek: :thinking:
cegprakash: no Astrobytes it's not fair to give a debugging challenge to a newcomer
cegprakash: this site is about writing code not debugging in a tutorial
Astrobytes: wtf is that logic
CameronWatt: anyone know the best place to practice sql (for sql server prefered).
cegprakash: download mysqlworkbench and click the start server button and u can run queries there CameronWatt
cegprakash: Astrobytes as I said it's my view
cegprakash: I've seen ppl spend 3 hrs on that variable thing
cegprakash: it's not worth it
cegprakash: in my opinion
Astrobytes: download SQL Server and set up a db, practice on it
Astrobytes: cegprakash: I do understand you to a point, but I would argue that it's pretty damn useful to be able to spot a typo - especially as a newcomer
cegprakash: just imagine u learn 3 hours to write a hello world program would u try that Astrobytes
CameronWatt: thx all
cegprakash: it's not the variable names are too large in c++ Astrobytes
cegprakash: if it's X and Y then it's easily debuggable
cegprakash: but how can u notice that X in checkPointX
cegprakash: sorry nextCheckPointX
cegprakash: such a huge variable name
cegprakash: is this a treasure hunt
cegprakash: or a coding tutorial
cegprakash: there is a separate section for treasure hunt called code escape
Astrobytes: cegprakash: nto being funny man, but as a kid I used to type out 2000 lines of BASIC into my Amstrad and then - syntax error on line 1567, and it's a GOTO statement.
If new users can't handle an X vs a Y in a variable name then they have bigger problems coming if you ask me.
Astrobytes: *not
cegprakash: come on.. the idea of a tutorial is to make the sign up process simple
Astrobytes: Onboarding.
cegprakash: onboarding tutorial whatever
Marchete: :popcorn:
cegprakash: it's a hello world
cegprakash: and taking 3 hrs is not fair
cegprakash: several ppl quit just there
Astrobytes: Sorry but the 3 hours (in my opinion) is on them.
Astrobytes: And the quitting.
cegprakash: not if the tutorial is made right
cegprakash: and simple
Marchete: onboarding->Hints->solution
cegprakash: just click a button and the car moves hurrah how amazing does that look
Astrobytes: It's *not* an intro to programming, it's there to catch you out
cegprakash: instead the car drives like a drunk man and the user is not sure what is happening
cegprakash: he doesn't even know what he had to do
Astrobytes: CSB isn't the first thing. Onboarding puzzle is.
cegprakash: previously there used to be a submit button now that is renamed to "Test in Arena" or something
cegprakash: which I do not like as well
cegprakash: But CSB is what I recommend to ppl
Astrobytes: They don't *have* to do CSB but if they can't tell the difference between X and Y, like I said, they have bigger issues
Astrobytes: Well complain to CG about the button, not me!
Marchete: I agree with ceg, CSB is ugly for starters
Marchete: they should do a new one, simplistic
Marchete: for newcomers
Uljahn: :notebook::soccer:
jacek: :innocent:
Astrobytes: Yeah, sure, CSB shouldn't necessarily be the introductory tutorial - or should it? Different stroke for different folks.
But correcting the mistake in the code is perfectly fine to me as part of an introductory tutorial.
Westicles: The problem is a new guy here 5min shouldn't be doing CSB
Westicles: But he seems happy, so it all worked out
jacek: CG isnt good for complete beginner anyway
Astrobytes: Indeed. I think the 'fix a variable name' problem highlights that.
Astrobytes: lol Uljahn, is jacek paying you for that advertising? :)
reCurse: I mean for the right price...
Westicles: Oh god, 3D ASCII art now
jacek: euler?
Westicles: https://www.codingame.com/training/medium/ascii-cube
tobk: Considering the ridiculously high participant numbers in CSB and absymally low numbers in other game, why have ONE "beginner" MP game at all? Promote different games at different weeks/months (like puzzle of the week, but MP only and more prominent).
Astrobytes: We tried suggesting that.
Astrobytes: At least community games get puzzle of the week sometimes.
Westicles: 3D ASCII art with unicode characters! How did the french let this happen?
tobk: yes, but TBH I'd exclude those form the "beginners" rotation. But writing some tutorial popouts for the others should not be too much work. Particularly if it's only one each month.
Astrobytes: Oh yeah I agree with that
Astrobytes: Good luck making it happen
tobk: What's particularly annoying about CSB is the complete re-write needed for Gold...
Astrobytes: oh yeah.
reCurse: Preaching to the choir
tobk: (not _for_ gold, but _in_ gold)
tobk: (or was it _for_ gold? can't remember, does not matter)
Astrobytes: I can only echo reCurse here
tobk: you mean reCurse is preaching to the choir that I am preaching to the choir? :-D
Astrobytes: Dear oh dear :door:
Astrobytes: :D
reCurse: wp
Astrobytes: Pedantry has it's merits :D
Astrobytes: *its
tobk: so much for pedantry :-P
Astrobytes: No one ever said pedantry doesn't apply to ones own statements ;)
tobk: one's?
tobk: SCNR
jacek: :smirk:
Astrobytes: lmao
Astrobytes: I've outdone myself this evening
tobk: yeah, I'm off, too. see you.
Astrobytes: Didn't say I was going anywhere, just acknowledging my mega-fails :D
ZarthaxX: lol
Astrobytes: See ya later anyway
ZarthaxX: see you astro
Astrobytes: wot
tobk: (misread outdone as overdone)
ZarthaxX: gn astro
Astrobytes: HELLO ZARTHAXX
ZarthaxX: Good morning Astro
ZarthaxX: how are you doing today
Astrobytes: I am fine ZarthaxX. Thank you for asking. How are you doing today?
ZarthaxX: Im doing fine kind sir
Astrobytes: :rofl:
ZarthaxX: had my last interview and im tired
Astrobytes: ah nice. Good one?
ZarthaxX: yes
ZarthaxX: mix of grupal group and invididual
ZarthaxX: individual
Astrobytes: The interview process was?
Edrrum: heyooo
Edrrum: i'm new and wanna start coding
Edrrum: what activities do you advice me to try
ZarthaxX: this one was
Edrrum: ?
Astrobytes: Cool. Very modern approach.
Astrobytes: Edrrum: can you code at all?
Edrrum: ye a bit
Edrrum: javascript
Edrrum: HTML
Edrrum: CSS
Edrrum: and a lil bit python
Astrobytes: Stop at JS and python.
Familiar with loops, conditional statements etc? Data types, basic data structures?
Edrrum: ye loops and conditional statements
Edrrum: but data structure still not
jacek: https://www.codingame.com/training/easy try thor or temperatures
Astrobytes: Easy puzzle section, try the ones without an author (the official CG puzzles)
Edrrum: ow okay
Edrrum: thanks ^^
jacek: or the descent
Astrobytes: Anything you don't know, look it up in your favourite search engine
jacek: bing?
Astrobytes: Or language documentation
Edrrum: ow i see
Edrrum: thanks again i will do that ^^
Astrobytes: And try to solve stuff on paper if you get stuck, before writing your solution.
Westicles: ZarthaxX, did your gf ever make those dice for euler?
ZarthaxX: no
ZarthaxX: she is busy with other models
ZarthaxX: i told her tho
ZarthaxX: she was doing it in between other things
Westicles: Ah, looks like it got released so he found some
Astrobytes: Other models eh
ZarthaxX: oh nice
jacek: eh?
ThePoisoned1: can i post here a pastebin of a problem idk why one test case doesnt work to see if someoen can help me out figure why?
ThePoisoned1: or is that not allowed
ZarthaxX: its ok
Astrobytes: ^
ThePoisoned1: https://pastebin.com/m66ZxYKs
ThePoisoned1: https://www.codingame.com/ide/puzzle/roller-coaster
ThePoisoned1: im gettign a wrong output on the 6th test
ThePoisoned1: i did this this way because the normal way with que and stuff times out
ThePoisoned1: queue
Astrobytes: You can do everything in one loop iirc
Astrobytes: Testcase 6 is large dataset so it's about being efficient
ThePoisoned1: i mean i do get an output
ThePoisoned1: so mi code should be efficient enough
ThePoisoned1: but its just wrong somewhere
Westicles: Are you overrunning an int somewhere?
Astrobytes: ^
ThePoisoned1: u mean like passing the int limit?
Westicles: yeah, earnings is long but maybe some other variable?
Smelty: ole spring challenge is a game now
ThePoisoned1: doesnt look like
ThePoisoned1: i mean the problem gives you those values as imputs
ThePoisoned1: the number of posible combinations in teh cart is 173 or soemthing
Astrobytes: Java makes my head hurt.
Smelty: lol
codeing: @Smelty
Smelty: ?
codeing: sorry, java seem like cool
Astrobytes: Fix the code for ThePoisoned1, Smelty
codeing: Astrobytes
Smelty: uh....
Smelty: ok?
soooooo
KelvinAndHubbles: Haven't done a lot of bot programming outside Spring challenge, UTTT, and Tron, are there any good ones to get into?
struct: There are plenty
Kingasasin177: I'm in Bronze League in Coders Strike Back and it's pretty much a 3/97 to get a good score now regardless of what you do
Smelty: hmm
iggy12345: Muahahaha I finished The labyrinth
iggy12345: finally
iggy12345: ugh
iggy12345: I thought dijkstra's algorithm was easy
Smelty: hm
Smelty: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/a3505c4b-af3d-4b3a-b10c-67f0535e6ef1
Smelty: interesting
iggy12345: what is that for?
Wontonimo: :wave:
iggy12345: hewoo
Wontonimo: hey iggy12345, what are you up to?
iggy12345: nm, watching southpark and working on https://www.codingame.com/ide/puzzle/aneo
Wontonimo: oh yeah, i did that one.
Wontonimo: I vaguely remember it
Wontonimo: 34 lines of python
Wontonimo: what lang are you using?
iggy12345: python
Wontonimo: good luck
iggy12345: thanks fam
iggy12345: what are you up to?
Wontonimo: about to take my dog on a walk
iggy12345: sounds like fun
iggy12345: it's raining down here, otherwise I'd take my dog for a walk too lol
Wontonimo: you did pretty good on Coders Strikes Back
iggy12345: oh that's the one that I got the code from the forum lol
iggy12345: got me all the way to gold lol
iggy12345: I just wanted to see if it worked and it just kept winning
Wontonimo: looks like your current bot is dying
iggy12345: probably, I'm currently trying to get silver in another puzzle
Wontonimo: which one?
Wontonimo: you have silver in hypersonic. i haven't tried that one
struct: I want to try it soon
iggy12345: oh, I'm in bronze in hypersonic
iggy12345: had me confused for a sec
iggy12345: It's really fun
struct: you can store the board on uint128_t despite it being 13*11
Wontonimo: oh right bronze
struct: Dont ask me how, I dont know...
iggy12345: lol
Wontonimo: do you just ignore some squares?
iggy12345: probably, that's how I did it in othello
Wontonimo: i mean, you dn't need to store the non-playable squares
struct: I think they ignore the squares that are impossible
struct: which are 5*6
struct: Yeah, I understand that you can ignore
struct: but dont know how it works
struct: I havent tried a lot though
DomiKo: any questions?
Wontonimo: i have no idea either
Wontonimo: no questions from me
DomiKo: I could help I guess
struct: Well, im a beginner on bitboards
DomiKo: yes you can store board on 128bits
Wontonimo: hey DomiKo! I don't think i've ever chatted. Nice to meet you
struct: I dont understand how you can ignore cells that also have an impact on the game
DomiKo: they have impact?
DomiKo: Wontonimo hi hi
struct: Dont they block bombs explosions?
DomiKo: they do but it's much simpler
iggy12345: well, if the cells have <2^n states, then you can use less than n bits
DomiKo: you have to look at x % 2 and y % 2
Wontonimo: ah
Wontonimo: but isn't all the unpacking and packing not worth the 2 extra bytes?
DomiKo: one mask is much better than two
iggy12345: the packing and unpacking only takes a few cycles
iggy12345: and the storage efficiency often outweighs the cost
DomiKo: in hypersonic you can do a bit more complex stuff and do explode action using bitboards too
Wontonimo: right, where as the extra memory fetch takes 10-20 cycles
iggy12345: the memory fetch can take anywhere up to a few thousand cycles?
iggy12345: depending on where it's at
struct: ok im not gonna pretend I understood :p
Wontonimo: i still can't imagine an efficient unpacking bittwiddle
DomiKo: when bomb is in even row (I don't remember) then you don't need to explode bomb horizontaly
DomiKo: because you have box on left and right
ZarthaxX: nice
struct: How do people find this?
struct: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Wontonimo: just when it gets interesting i've gotta go. Hey DomiKo, nice to meet you. Hope to see you around in the next few weeks
iggy12345: find what?
iggy12345: cya wontonimo
struct: I had to use paint for SC21
DomiKo: if you ping me I will be there I guess :sweat_smile:
ZarthaxX: struct pros
DomiKo: cya
struct: cya wontonimo
ZarthaxX: bai Wontonimo
struct: maybe when i get more invested on hs ill ask you some questions
DomiKo: :nerd:
iggy12345: I debate whether or not I should push to try and get my spring challenge into silver, or my hypersonic into silver
struct: did you also use beam domiko?
struct: on hs
DomiKo: yeah
DomiKo: but I would say that HS beam is the most interesting beam
DomiKo: that I know
struct: why?
struct: You dont have to answer if you dont want to
iggy12345: what is beam?
struct: beam search iggy12345
DomiKo: it's very tricky
struct: its a bfs but you do some pruning
struct: ah ok
DomiKo: diversity is the key
iggy12345: hmm, I'll have to look into that more
iggy12345: never heard of it
ian12: hallo
struct: hi
ZarthaxX: ohhh igot to top 100 magically
ZarthaxX: wohooo
iggy12345: random question, in the aneo sponsored puzzle, do the lights have 2 states, or 3?
TheMapotakes: H<
struct: grats ZarthaxX
struct: ill catch you next contest
ZarthaxX: you are top 200 struct!
ZarthaxX: nice :)
struct: thanks
struct: I have very bad contest rating
ZarthaxX: next contest wont make you catch me i think
ZarthaxX: you would need to do multis
ZarthaxX: mm
ZarthaxX: same :/
struct: i only have points from last 2 contests
struct: The others I didnt try at all
ZarthaxX: euler has 200k points and got 1st :O
ZarthaxX: ah then maybe struct
struct: nice
DomiKo: 200K :open_mouth:
struct: you have 52k points on bot programming?
struct: what are you playing
ZarthaxX: im full of points from multis that were contests
ZarthaxX: the ones i did
struct: np
ZarthaxX: havent done many multis outside contests i played
ZarthaxX: np?
struct: no problem
ZarthaxX: but why did you answer that? lol
struct: no problem ill catch you
ZarthaxX: ahhh
ZarthaxX: not if i do multis too :)
ZarthaxX: just kidding pass me
struct: nah im doing other stuff now
ZarthaxX: like?
struct: stc
ZarthaxX: AGAIN?!
struct: I never finished it
struct: I opened my ide today and read the code
ZarthaxX: premature optim is strong on you sir
ZarthaxX: :D
struct: good luck to me
struct: I dont undertand it anymore
ZarthaxX: good luck sir o/
ZarthaxX: HAHAHAA
struct: I even reused states
struct: :(
ZarthaxX: thats good
struct: its not worth
struct: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/7e37ac05-6813-432d-a836-8fac032d33ae
struct: I compute all possible states until depth 4
struct: for me and opp
struct: I can reuse 11155 at most on the next turn
struct: ah it goes further
struct: it doesnt stop at depth 4
struct: so it can actually reuse more states
ZarthaxX: lol
ZarthaxX: you dont even remember your code
ZarthaxX: :rofl:
micoze-stella: I completely forgot about the contest (I didn't log in at all during the period).
It's hard to share my impressions 'cause I dont have account of
Twitter.
shaima_ab: hi
micoze-stella: hi... im loser lol
CameronWatt: hi... im fat lol
iggy12345: I tell bad jokes because I'm a bad joke
OBenjOne: how much does the ranking mean on this site?
aresous: @OBenjOne it means everything
aresous: jk xd
OBenjOne: Is is a good estimate of how good a coder you are?
OBenjOne: Haha
aresous: absolutely not. it is a very broad subject. I've noticed on this site it is heavily math oriented. on codewars I have a 10x easier time.
aresous: also, it depends, what particular field you're interested in
davilla: really? I thought CodeWars was more math oriented
davilla: I did Mars lander without any math, not even distance formula, other than deltas in either x or y.
davilla: certainly no trig
aresous: this is from the perspective of someone whose highest math is algebra 2 and physics 1 lol
aresous: I have solved many problems into the deeper end of codewars ranks and I'm struggling with the very first few questions on this site because of the math.
aresous: I have a much easier time mapping arrays/objects and traversing strings than I do with very simple mathematical operations
OBenjOne: I haven't really used a ton of math here either, the most math I've used on this site was making a collision prediction program for coders strike back
OBenjOne: Just some simple 2D physics
davilla: Luckily nearly everything is tagged. Does that help you see what you're getting into?
aresous: yeah none of it even says it's math heavy, I seriously think I'm just an ape. then again my max kyu completed on codewars is 4 so idk
aresous: this site could just be exponentially harder than codewars
aresous: or I just really suck at math l m a o
davilla: That's not too shabby. My coworkers didn't reach that.
aresous: that gives me hope to find a job in web dev, thanks for sharing davilla lol
aresous: i think im just going to have to go on khan academy or some other free learning website and retake maths all the way up to at least calc
davilla: Couldn't hurt. I always felt I didn't understand calculus. After graduating I went thru that class again, thinking I might teach it one day. (What else would you do with a math degree?) There's a lot of detail that you have to grind thru again, but it's a lot less intimidating the second time around.
OBenjOne: I have not taken calc yet, and none o the puzzles I have tried have been too difficult (on the math side at least) I have struggled with some programming things like BFS
davilla: To be sharp as CS you should know logarithms.
aresous: haha, yeah I just did not enjoy digesting the math curriculum at my highschool as I didn't think I'd use any of it. I was wrong. what field are you in btw davilla?
davilla: at* CS = comp sci
aresous: like, title at work?
aresous: cause you said your coworkers never hit 4 kyu so im curious
davilla: By CS I mean the degree. My coworkers were all pretty sharp, so I don't know why they didn't rise higher. Maybe I just wanted it more than they did. I wasn't a programmer by job title.
davilla: Mathematician, slot machines.
aresous: ahh okay, cool. well thanks for sharing
Battikhah: whta are things that i should learn before entering comp sci classes?
Skynse: Which python version does codingame run
Skynse: like 3.*
Chainman: I actually don't know. I haven't tried walrus operator in it yet.
Skynse: It's nice to be able to clash again
Chainman: I know it has f strings, so 3.6+
Skynse: Haven't clashed in almost 3 months
Skynse: School work
Chainman: I just discovered C++ has tuples :nerd:
MoMaT: Skynse: see this for versions -> https://www.codingame.com/faq
Skynse: Thanks
Chainman: That's cool page
Smelty: meaw
aayux: any material for python
