Smelty: i cant view those for some reason :((
Smelty: can u try pastebin.co
Smelty: *com
Wontonimo: > Sorry, pastebin.com has been blocked by your network administrator.
- (
hexa8: LOL
Wontonimo: work computer ... so sad
Smelty: RIP
Smelty: codingame.pastebin is blocked by mine
phord: Ooh... I didn't even notice seeds could be cast outside of shadows.
Smelty: sooo
Smelty: we r stuck
Smelty: in dms
Kolo9: if I'm understanding the definition of "knight moves" correctly, you can use the provided neighbors list
Kolo9: and do neighbor[0][1]
Kolo9: or neighbor[1][2]
Kolo9: etc
actualCoderTrevor: Smelty he said: https://pastebin.com/8FwEfYKQ
Smelty: ah he already showed me in dms
Smelty: thanks tho!
actualCoderTrevor: lol oops yw
Enknable: https://www.w3schools.com/python/python_compiler.asp
icecream17: oh i know how to do calculate distance!
Enknable: should be able to drop code in there
icecream17: or rahter, getCoordsInRange
icecream17: getCoordsAtRange(3) = cell neighbor neighbor neighbor but not cell or cell neighbor or cell nieghbor neighbor
icecream17: getCoordsInRange = cell neighbor neighbor neighbor, remove duplicates
phord: If seeds are dropped on same cell at the same time, it's a no-op. I should make my bot retry if that happens. What if the opp also retries. I wonder if we can get a game with 100,000 moves. Surely it must kill us both at some point.
icecream17: no the tree disables after an action
phord: Ah, I see that now.
phord: I noticed some leaders were delaying completing trees until the end. Effective strategy because of shadows.
phord: But then I noticed other leaders had better planning and well-distributed scoring.
ChrisJM: I imagine search AIs will be blocking sunlight naturally if they have enough depth
Enknable: trees inside trees
phord: Too many trees cuts down your own sun points, though.
Wontonimo: phord, once your tree throws a seed it becomes dormant and can no longer act in that day
jsmurl: i just loaded the spring challenge on chrome on a windows PC and just see a grey box, anyone have tips how to fix?
actualCoderTrevor: I remember hearing it's a known issue for some people. Can you try Firefox?
jsmurl: yea it works on firefox, just wondering if there is a fix
jsmurl: seeing this in the inspector: TypeError: Cannot read property 'resize' of undefined
actualCoderTrevor: Didn't hear about a fix just the issue. Maybe someone else will correct me though.
Jeanpier: I dont know why my ranking is 9300th and there is another ranking whichs says that I'm 2277 th
Kolo9: jsmurl mine resolved after I updated Chrome. Do you have an update pending? (top right)
Enknable: Jeanpier you're 9300 overall
Enknable: and 2277th in this competition?
Enknable: or some other sub category
phord: I use Brave (Chromium) and haven't had any problems.
jsmurl: Kolo9, looks like I'm up to date :thinking:
Kolo9: damn :( yeah I heard other people having the same issue. not sure why it worked for me
itzluku: hahahahh i submitted my latest version and lost the first game in the arena
itzluku: XDDD
itzluku: good start
itzluku: whata re the odds to fight other new submissions
Kolo9: haha from what I've seen it *seems* like when you submit a new version, it'll pit you against some people around the rank you were before
Kolo9: in the first few battles
Enknable: jsmuri https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/codingame-sync-beta/614
Enknable: or try firefox :nerd:
jsmurl: ah I had to enable hardware acceleration
jsmurl: I had it disabled because I was running into some weird issues on youtube a while back
actualCoderTrevor: Awesome my bot now keeps track of his energy level throughout the match perfectly without having to read it from the input \o/
phord: noice
itzluku: usefull for sim?
actualCoderTrevor: That's the idea :)
itzluku: else only error-prone imo
actualCoderTrevor: Up next will come predicting which moves increase the net energy
Smelty: hmm
itzluku: btw guys
itzluku: what is the max score ur bot can get?
itzluku: 100? :O
phord: I've seen 133.
itzluku: ?_?
itzluku: #1 has 58.71
phord: Do you mean the game score? (points)
itzluku: leaderboard bot score
itzluku: sry my bad
itzluku: i achieved a game score > 165 once iirc
itzluku: uh new #2
phord: Leaderboard score seems to be a composite tournament ranking thing, maybe?
itzluku: hm i would argue (since they programmed the game and it doesnt have too much complexity (?)) that there is a way to calculate every possible choice in polynomial time
itzluku: meaning they can rate your choice
itzluku: but i am not sure
phord: Then they wouldn't need head-2-head, would they?
itzluku: head-2-head?
phord: You're ranked based on wins vs. opponents. The top leaders will be the ones who adjust their choices based on their opponenet's moves.
phord: Complexity is not trivial in these games.
itzluku: wait
itzluku: but there is a problem
itzluku: how do u know what options ur opponent will have ?
itzluku: since seeds are random for example
itzluku: and u cant simulate in depth to see when your opp might sell a tree
icecream17: you dont know the order, but you know what they are
icecream17: if you write your own game simulator
phord: You are told where the opp's trees are after each turn. So you can see what they're doing.
itzluku: but u dont know they seed indices he can place seeds on
itzluku: and u dont know if he will complete a tree
itzluku: 2nd u could iterate
itzluku: 1st not
phord: You can know which indices he can play on.
Enknable: you know everything he can do
Enknable: and everything you can do
icecream17: you can generate legal moves, you dont know which move opp will pick
phord: Consider: you do not need the possibleActions list.
itzluku: hm so sim has to take into account what seed indices might be possible
itzluku: but then your sim would play against a migthy more powerfull opponent that inst real
itzluku: meaning sim would choose worse
itzluku: ^^
Enknable: it has to take into account the shadow on the 10000th iteration
itzluku: no?
Enknable: your sim only create the game tree
Enknable: the way that you prioritize moves
Enknable: is the strategy
phord: Sim could choose the best move for the oppo, and the oppo may make a dumber move. But then you can adjust your planning accordingly.
itzluku: yeh but the depth of your sim is finite
phord: The games are also finite.
itzluku: and u have to take moves into consideration that wount be possible for your opponent
itzluku: since seed is random
itzluku: ?
phord: Seed is random?
itzluku: yes?
Wontonimo: random_seed
phord: oh -- lol. not SEED
Enknable: rand(seed)
Wontonimo: not to be confused with the thing in the game called a seed
itzluku: game seeds
itzluku: are given
itzluku: but generated by sth unknown
itzluku: true?
phord: You don't need anything to do with the rand(seed) when simulating moves.
actualCoderTrevor: You mean the random game board? That's established right from the get-go
Wontonimo: yeah
Enknable: you also dont calculate the whole tree on the first turn
itzluku: u get a set of seed options per turn
itzluku: those seed options are soem what random
Enknable: you calculate as much as you can, make the best decision you can, then prune and continue
phord: You may not be able to plan all the way to game-end within the timeout. But you can do very well by only looking a few moves ahead.
actualCoderTrevor: Those aren't random, they are predetermined based on the rules, and they're just provided for convenience
itzluku: let me break it down more simpler
itzluku: i think u guys dont get my point
phord: Aw, crap. My improved bot fell in ranking. :-(
Wontonimo: well look at that, when you fix a bug your bot does better. yeah me.
phord: "improved"
actualCoderTrevor: phord that's been a constant with me
phord: actualCoderTrevor but I was beating my Arena code in testing pretty well. :-\
itzluku: if u sim for the best move, lets say minmax then u have to go throug heach possible seed index your opp might plant a seed. but ur opp only has a fraction of those seed indices to plant a seed... meaning u simulate against a better opp than u actually have
actualCoderTrevor: I think other bots are improving faster than I can improve mine. I dropped from 110 to 430
Enknable: silver doesnt open for 3 days
Enknable: dont worry :)
phord: My strategy spends all the sun points I can every day. I'm growing multiple trees right up to the last day. What a waste.
itzluku: @actualCoderTrevor if u dont handle shadows for example, then its kinda luck every time u test your bot :p
itzluku: mix of opp getting better and luck might be a factor
actualCoderTrevor: itzluku how'd you know I don't handle shadows? :P
phord: itzluku You can predict how many seeds your opp can actually plant each day and limit your sim to only planting that many in each scenario.
itzluku: just said if :P
actualCoderTrevor: lol well you were right
itzluku: i'm also not handling shadows yet
itzluku: #181
itzluku: xd
actualCoderTrevor: show-off :P
Wontonimo: okay, i'm not handling shadows either. just resubmitted and I'm placing around 28th
actualCoderTrevor: :O
itzluku: @phord but those limited scenarios migth still be more difficult, meaning the sim plays against a better opp
actualCoderTrevor: It's an arms-race no matter which strategy you use.
phord: Your search tree can include _all_ the opps possible moves. You don't have to play against one of them; you play against all of them.
itzluku: in your sim your opp would for example have seed index options of richness 3 but in reality he only has richness1 seed index options
itzluku: that is my point
actualCoderTrevor: Then your sim is bad
phord: Then ask yourself, of all the branches where I win, what move do they have most in common from this point of the game?
phord: Play that move. Then prune your tree of others. Watch what your opp does; prune your tree of all his other moves. Go back to step 1.
itzluku: if u play against an opp that is better in your sim, then u might det a different move than u would if u knew what he is limited to
Enknable: one move does not lead to one result
phord: Why do you think opp would have different options in reality vs. the ones in your sim?
Enknable: each move leaves you with thousands of game states
phord: You are playing on the same grid.
Enknable: you dont move based off one state
Enknable: you move based off of the group of states
itzluku: bro u dont get my point
actualCoderTrevor: At a high-level of play, how well you can predict and outmaneuver your opponent will affect how well you do against them. That's true of a sim or a heuristic.
Enknable: if you use MCTS anyways
Enknable: itzluku do you know MCTS?
Enknable: multiarmed bandit?
itzluku: reality is a subquantity of your sim, ofc ur sim has all the options but those distinct options in your sim not actually appearing influence your choice
JohnCM: wonder if python is enough for this challenge
JohnCM: i try first and see if i timeout
Xenoid: #2, #3, #4 all are using Python
phord: Your sim doesn't make a choice and then pretend there were no other options.
phord: Your sim makes *all* the choices and then uses some aggregate view to decide how to improve your score while reducing your opp score.
Wontonimo: for those who are new-ish to this site, there is a "trueskill" score beside the names in the leaderboard. iirc, every 4 points in score (not position) is about 80/20 win ratio difference.
phord: I fixed my code again. My rank went wayyy up again. Woohoo! Oh, down is good, right? :-(
itzluku: but you make a choice based on what your opp can respond with, you have a bias. thats simple bayes.. and the bias in your sim is different to reality since i nreality your opponent only has a subset of the quantity holding all possible moves in theory
VizGhar: I'll probably have to write some unit tests :P not sure if my results are 100%
phord: Fact: Your opp has a limited set of possible next moves.
Fact: Your sim can know exactly what the opp's choices are for the next move.
VizGhar: yeey dbd r is first :) huge fan
phord: Right?
itzluku: yes
VizGhar: yes
JohnCM: lol i only wrote 6 lines of code, and i think i can go bronze already
phord: So, the best your sim can probably do is predict which next moves will maximize the opp's score.
JohnCM: XD
kovi: nice dbdr!
dbdr: thanks VizGhar!
dbdr: and kovi :)
ZarthaxX: GZ dbdr
phord: Then you play to minimize the effect f those predicted moves. Or you play to minimize the opp's gain on average across all his possible moves.
dbdr: small idea I had yesterday in the bath :D
ZarthaxX: lmao
ZarthaxX: if else stil?
VizGhar: oh... bath
JohnCM: hi there kovi, dbdr
itzluku: thats why your sim might choose a path that is outside of the subset
dbdr: no, BS
phord: Which subset do you mean?
phord: And which "chosen path" are you talking about?
itzluku: i agree with u on how simulations work
itzluku: that isn't my point
phord: Well, good, because I didn't make this up. It's not really my opinion. lol
itzluku: i know
ZarthaxX: dbdr ah okey, didnt know bullsh*t worked so well
itzluku: u are kinda talking away from my points
ZarthaxX: anyway, gz :D
phord: What "subset" do you mean?
PaarthThePro: Has anyone started the Spring Challenge?
itzluku: sim has more variations right?
icecream17: yes paarth
icecream17: ok submitting
PaarthThePro: I'm already on bronze
DetoBot: is the response time per turn is 100ms or has some offset
itzluku: more options for your opp to plant seeds than in reality, more options for u to plant seeds in more depth
phord: More variations than what? Reality?
phord: No.
itzluku: ?
icecream17: well i think some people proved that anything within reality is less complicated then reality
icecream17: dont remember the wikipedia article
phord: You have the same number of options. In reality, you will only choose one of those options on each turn. But you had all of them available to you.
itzluku: lets say my oponen has teh option to plant 2 seeds 31 7 and 31 33 , then he has 2 options ? but your sim doesnt know that.. your sim would check for every index that doesnt hold a tree
phord: No. Your sim DOES know that.
actualCoderTrevor: Again, it's a bad sim if it's doing that
phord: Why wouldn't you know that?
itzluku: ?
icecream17: your sim is as accurate as the game itself
itzluku: wait
actualCoderTrevor: itzluku, as I've said before, the options available for planting a seed are spelled out in the rules. There's no randomness to it.
phord: Look at the opps trees. Calculate his sun points. Now you know exactly which seed options he has available.
itzluku: but u cant plant a sed anywhere u want???
itzluku: seed*
itzluku: wtf they are?
icecream17: the rules say seeds must be within (size) distance from (non disabled tree)
Enknable: This game is: Perfect information
icecream17: size=tree size
phord: No, you can only plan seeds where you are allowed: Within "size" distance, on non-zero richness ground, and within your sun points budget.
itzluku: wtf i did'nt knew that
itzluku: well that explains alot
icecream17: ...rules were right there =/
icecream17: wait
icecream17: meant to do something else
icecream17: i guess the emoticon could be parsed that way...
icecream17: "=/"
itzluku: @phord yeh then my point is not longer valid. i thought u get a random set of possible seed spots and have to choose from that...
itzluku: but thanks for the discussion :D was still fun
Enknable: even if they were random...
Enknable: they're finite
itzluku: xD
Enknable: ;)
itzluku: not again
itzluku: :D:D
phord: itzluku I'm glad we sorted that out. lol
phord: Have fun!
itzluku: finite but your sim would take into account moves that wouldnt appear... meaning u would make choices based on wrong assumptions (bayes theory)
phord: =/
phord: =\
actualCoderTrevor: Stahp
itzluku: xd
phord: :/ =/ =\ :\ :-\ :-/ =-[
itzluku: haha
actualCoderTrevor: lol
phord: Wow -- so many that converge to the same dude.
itzluku: if ur simulation calculates options that are not a valid option, then ur simulation might not give u the best option
itzluku: processes*
useAllTheThings: o __ /
o /
itzluku: whatever lets end it here :D
JohnCM: yay with my wood 1 code I got rank 2.4k in bronze. time to improve on it
Enknable: as long as the set of all random choices contain all valid moves, there's no difference between a random move and a chosen move.
itzluku: i also yoinked an opening strat xd
Enknable: if its invalid..then its just broken game
JohnCM: when i count distances between cells, i can walk over cells with 0 richness right
ZarthaxX: ye
JohnCM: thanks
itzluku: lets say u get 2 random seed spots that are valid as an input, each round, and your sim iterates over all 37-nr_cells_with_trees possible seed options, then u will calculate board structures that are not possible, meaning your sim choice is biased on assumign those were valid options, but they are not, in this construction
itzluku: @Enknable
VizGhar: hmm winning way too much with pretty dumb heuristic
VizGhar: maybe time to switch to search
phord: Goodnight folks
itzluku: is there a default index value for neighbors outside of the board?
itzluku: gn
VizGhar: mornin'
VizGhar: yes -1
itzluku: ty
Enknable: itzluku haha sorry man I can't get what you're putting down. I don't see a difference between guessing what an opponent will choose, and guess what an opponent will be forced to do. Either way, that list of moves is finite and will never lead to invalid game states
Enknable: :thinking:
itzluku: okey different approach
itzluku: this one u will get
itzluku: your sim caluclates all seed options that are valid: 37-nr_cells_with_trees
itzluku: right?
Enknable: yes
itzluku: lets say in this construct the opp will only have 2 given indices, meaning only 2 valid options ( 2 out of those 37-nr_cells_with_trees)
itzluku: ok?
Chainman: Can we play this game manually?
Zaphus: what do you mean by 2 given indices?
itzluku: options=["SEED 31 18","SEED 17 12"]
itzluku: for example
Zaphus: ok, so you are not saying there are 37-trees valid options, there are only 2
actualCoderTrevor: Chainman look up photosynthesis board game; it's based on that
itzluku: yeh
itzluku: that is the construct
Enknable: yes, so if they are given 2 valid options, then we calculate 1332 different states
Zaphus: why would you do that?
itzluku: that is not how this game here works, but that is the construct i am making my argument with now
itzluku: now my point is
Zaphus: just doesnt seem logical. If they only have two choices, then there must only be 2 valid options, so you have 2 states
Zaphus: well, three if you include waiting
Enknable: they are "Dealt" their seeds positions
Enknable: which are 2 random hex in a 37 board
Enknable: ?
Zaphus: is this in a different theoretical game, not this one ?
DetoBot: My chat bot is ready
Enknable: yeah lol
DetoBot: match against me
DetoBot: to have a look
Zaphus: so confusing :-) in that case you have (37-trees) * (37-1-trees) states
Zaphus: prob divide by two because order doesnt matter
itzluku: if the sim would know that the opp only has those 2 options, meaning the sim would know what those 2 options are (B) then:
P(A|B) =/ P(A)
with A being the thext move
Enknable: ^
itzluku: next*
Enknable: how would your sim
Enknable: know what the opp moves would be...5000 states into the future
itzluku: ?
itzluku: its a finite game
itzluku: 24days
itzluku: why 5000 states
Enknable: there aren't 2 options..
itzluku: 2 start trees each
Enknable: oh man
Enknable: im totally lost lol
itzluku: so max 33 indices to plant a tree for each turn
Wontonimo: Enknable , there are lots of search possibilities for sim
Enknable: oh yeah I agree Wontonimo
Wontonimo: what i mean is, you could do a simple DFS and ignore the opponent.
Wontonimo: for example
Wontonimo: and it would do really well
itzluku: DFS for what
Enknable: yeah, I was actually thinking it would be better
Wontonimo: DFS for maxing points before the game ends
Enknable: if you constantly just play optimally solo
ZarthaxX: Wontonimo holy you are if else master
itzluku: best board weight?
Enknable: you might lose to weird strategies
Enknable: but overall i think you win more
Wontonimo: thanks ZarthaxX ! :D
ZarthaxX: :D
Wontonimo: how you know that latest bot is if/else ?
itzluku: can u check code of others? :D
Wontonimo: nope. maybe admin.
itzluku: admin abuse :x
ZarthaxX: no haha
ZarthaxX: i just thought so because python and 2 days of contest
ZarthaxX: :D
ZarthaxX: many ppl just like doing heuristics as they give fast results and have fun while doing so
ZarthaxX: it's pretty common
ZarthaxX: to encounter if else spaghetti i mean
itzluku: https://www.codingame.com/replay/548741611
itzluku: @Wontonimo
JohnCM: yuusanlondon's bot is very funny to watch. lots of random japanese words
Wontonimo: so close!
DetoBot: https://www.codingame.com/replay/548739497
DetoBot: @Wontonimo :joy:
itzluku: when do u check for shadows?
UndercoverToad: yuusanlondon is playing? i've seen that name on topcoder before
UndercoverToad: oh at 2nd place even
itzluku: @DetoBot u need check nutrients value, if ur opp completes trees it will drop and u will get less if u sell after him
itzluku: complete*
Wontonimo: hey DetoBot , add something to prefer seed placement where the neighbours are not your own trees. it'll help you not shadow yourself so much
DetoBot: thanks working on a new bot for past few hours
DetoBot: will include your advice too
itzluku: next step for me is checking how many enemy and team trees a tree would shadow for the next x moves , to decide if i want to sell it or not
itzluku: what else would be important to check (related to shadows)
itzluku: ?
NotSureWhyThisWorks: size of the shadow
NotSureWhyThisWorks: I forgot to add to mine
itzluku: https://www.codingame.com/replay/548751832
itzluku: xd
itzluku: how do i win against u like that but im still onyl #182
itzluku: wtf xd
DetoBot: submit again
NotSureWhyThisWorks: nice itzluku
NotSureWhyThisWorks: I sometimes win against higher players in the IDE but not consistently
NotSureWhyThisWorks: if your bot can beat mine like 5 times out of 10 it should probably be around 50-60 as well
itzluku: same
itzluku: its the shadows
itzluku: need to figure out a way to simulate some stuff and handle shadows
itzluku: else it wil lalways be a coinflip
NotSureWhyThisWorks: your bot spreads the trees out more over the grid. Mine currently doesn't do that well
itzluku: i check the neighbors for seed spots
VizGhar: LOL bfs timing out for depth 2 in dart... well maybe it is bad language :D
VizGhar: or maybe im the one who is wroong
jrke: yeah can timeout in depth 2 cause many possible moves
WolfDarrigan: My Java times out at a depth of 3
WolfDarrigan: I need to figure out how to compute transpositions
NotSureWhyThisWorks: are we talking days or turns?
WolfDarrigan: days for me
NotSureWhyThisWorks: 3 days could be a lot of turns
NotSureWhyThisWorks: or maybe not
itzluku: wait, if ur opp waits, then u dont get an input of possible moves
itzluku: meaning if i grow a t2 tree to t3 and he waits, then i dont know i have a t3 tree to complete
itzluku: xd
WolfDarrigan: Yeah, I'm computing possible moves and shadow movement. If I had enough time, I could simulate the whole game
StyllyMyle: I have a little question
NotSureWhyThisWorks: simulation seems difficult for a game like this
itzluku: just ask :D
StyllyMyle: so i see that we get sun from trees the same time sun direction changes
StyllyMyle: but i wana ask, do we get sun before or direction changes?
NotSureWhyThisWorks: I think after
WolfDarrigan: Sun moves, then generates sun points
StyllyMyle: So first sun get harvested, then direction changes
StyllyMyle: wait what?
WolfDarrigan: the sun moves first
StyllyMyle: Sun moves first
StyllyMyle: then check all tiles which are spooky
Enknable: :ghost:
lge.innocent: can you make 2 or more actions a day?
WolfDarrigan: correct StyllyMyle
itzluku: yes in bronze
itzluku: i think i wood u cant
itzluku: in*
WolfDarrigan: you can make as many actions as you like
WolfDarrigan: you just need the sun points for it
StyllyMyle: I see
lge.innocent: ok thanks
StyllyMyle: so 2 action limit is non existent
WolfDarrigan: and you can't act on a tree that is dormant
StyllyMyle: make sense
StyllyMyle: Can only work on tree once
StyllyMyle: before day over
itzluku: btw u can die if u make a move that costs more sun points than u have
itzluku: xd
StyllyMyle: WAIIIT
itzluku: haha
StyllyMyle: Really :D
itzluku: if it goes negative after your action
Enknable: never go into debt to the sun god
itzluku: :D
StyllyMyle: Any algo that makes sun go negative?
StyllyMyle: I never thought to utilize the negative bounds of sun
The_ZimaBlue: idts
itzluku: seed and grow
itzluku: have a cost
StyllyMyle: complete also have a cost r8
The_ZimaBlue: but u wont do the action if u dont have enough sun points
itzluku: complete has no cost?
The_ZimaBlue: 4
The_ZimaBlue: 4 sun points
StyllyMyle: I gttg
itzluku: lol
itzluku: xD
itzluku: guess i am just lucky
Enknable: later all
Enknable: happy coding :)
itzluku: cya
itzluku: ah nvm, since i just take possible actions from the input that action just wount show
itzluku: thats why i dont die
itzluku: :D
JohnCM: when is silver coming out?
dbdr: JohnCM click on "Bronze league" at the top
JohnCM: ah ok thanks
Tiramon: ok seems my state restructuring is working and should give me some more sims ...
UndercoverToad: i got my sim more than 6 times as fast with bitboards :tada:
but something is wrong, I only find WAIT as legal action
Tiramon: atleast that is always a valid action ;)
dbdr: fast, correct, simple: pick any 2 ;)
Tiramon: is that your non automaton pingable account?
dbdr: oh, it's a toad!
Tiramon: but he is undercover
dbdr: true, who could that be? that german toad?
Marchete: happy caturday
DaNinja: morning
Marchete: nice work as always, dbdr
UndercoverToad: chat got too laggy so I made a new account
Tiramon: if this works out i should atleast get 10-20 times more sims ...
and yes before it was far to slow :)
dbdr: thanks Marchete!
actuallz I'm not used to such rank in a contest
khalkhoul: hello
khalkhoul: helllo
Tiramon: wow 1st nice
Tiramon: gratz dbdr =)
UndercoverToad: now defend that rank with teeth and claws
jacek: happy Caturday
dbdr: should I become a wolf then? or bear?
itzluku: will they add more functionality for silver? like.. more features
jacek: a small horse
dbdr: a prince has no claws
UndercoverToad: a manbearpig
dbdr: I'll pass
UndercoverToad: southpark? :(
dbdr: my princess might not like it
JohnCM: yes i realize euler is missing
UndercoverToad: where might he be?
UndercoverToad: :spy:
dbdr: UndercoverToad sub your bitboarded wait bot
dbdr: someone was asking for one yesterday
UndercoverToad: you can't even play against it as it will be below top1000
dbdr: search
UndercoverToad: i find the possible actions now
UndercoverToad: but still waiting first and applying actions on the next day
Marchete: I'm puzzled, 3 pythons and 1 JS at top10
UndercoverToad: the contest is less than 2 days old
dbdr: I say two days is long enough, let's stop
Marchete: let me rephrase
geio: can we change colorscheme in editor in codingame
Marchete: some of the top10 already has a sim bot, depth N
DaNinja: yes, in Setting on the left
Marchete: yet python/Js can compete
geio: :o
dbdr: oh, that would be a anti-hiding feature: end of contest is kept secret (random)
dbdr: i'm sure nobody would mind
UndercoverToad: also anti-testing feature
UndercoverToad: don't submit when you aren't sure it's better
dbdr: yes :D
dbdr: UndercoverToad do you bitboard in C# or C++?
UndercoverToad: C#
UndercoverToad: they really stepped up, there is even https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.numerics.bitoperations.popcount?view=net-5.0
itzluku: hm i found a bug
UndercoverToad: i found a bit of code between the bugs
dbdr: remove it!
itzluku: i have a t3 tree and 4suns, but it doesnt show complete as an option
Tiramon: is it dormant?
CBORJDNHR: is everyone in the top 100 using a minimax ?
dbdr: no
Marchete: the fixed pointer thingy in C# is annoying
UndercoverToad: i don't think that minimax is the right algo for this game
Tiramon: i'm 101 right now with my plain sort +5 ifelse so guess not
itzluku: no, but u can complete dormant t3 trees so whatever
Marchete: I was thinking that minimax or even MCTS
jrke: i think only top30-40 currently only having algo based bot
Marchete: can work
NotSureWhyThisWorks: I'm 50 ish without simulation
Marchete: you just do the sim each 2 turns
Tiramon: itzluku not afaik
Marchete: and depth is always +=2
UndercoverToad: are there any messages below your output itzluku?
Tiramon: would be an action and dormant trees can't take actions
UndercoverToad: in the game summary
itzluku: what kind of msges
Marchete: dormant completes?
UndercoverToad: a text telling you why you screwed up
Marchete: that's true?
UndercoverToad: i'm pretty sure you can't complete dormant
Tiramon: Tiramon is planting a seed on cell 23 from cell 24
this also tells if action is not possible for some reason
itzluku: https://www.codingame.com/replay/548787830
itzluku: at the end blue sells a t3 tree taht is dormant
itzluku: that*
itzluku: ah nvm
Tiramon: no it's not ..
itzluku: tree is bigger
itzluku: xd
itzluku: well but still, my t43 on index 8 is not dormant
itzluku: and i have 4 suns
itzluku: last tick
Tiramon: it is dormant ...
itzluku: index 8 ?
Tiramon: yes you have grown it .. so it is dormand
Tiramon: *dormant
itzluku: ah wtf
Tiramon: make a mouseover
itzluku: yeh im stupid
itzluku: i thought dormant means its overshadowed
itzluku: yikes :/
Tiramon: dormant means it has taken an action on that day
itzluku: ty
Tiramon: spooky btw means it is in the shadow of a tree of his size or bigger
itzluku: u can sell "spooky trees" ?
Tiramon: sure
itzluku: complete*
itzluku: kk
Amanojaku: country
Tiramon: you just won't get suns for spooky trees
itzluku: aight thanks
DaNinja: can this be optimized faster?
DaNinja: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/aff61519-8d4c-4db9-a1c7-18c313838884
Marchete: inline
DaNinja: I have #pragma GCC optimize "O3,omit-frame-pointer,inline,unroll-loops"
Marchete: I'm 100% the bottleneck will be at move generation or sun calculation
Marchete: don't microoptimize these
Marchete: 100% sure
Vaibhav0705: hi
pmor: Only way to optimize that function is to somehow get rid of the if branches
resty-daze: good compiler could use cmov instrs and avoid branches automatically i guess
RoboStac: might not be able to optimise it, but you probaly want to make it work properly by changing the 1<<idx to 1ULL<<idx (by default 1 is an int so is only 32 bit)
pmor: maybe. will have to look at the disassembly
DaNinja: thanks Robo good point
martinpapa69: __builtin_clz (trees & 0b111)
pmor: ^ that might do it
kovi: +1 Marchete...seeding is costly...anything else is probably premature opt
martinpapa69: oh nvm, i understood your code incorreclty, thats something else
kovi: (collecting seed actions)
UndercoverToad: this sounds completely weird but i find legal actions offline and not online
itzluku: damn dbdr is smart :D he punished my not having enough suns and completed alot of t3's because i couldn't react and complete myself
itzluku: my=me*
itzluku: @UndercoverToads prob a bug on your end/model
UndercoverToad: whoops, found it (or at least where to look at)
UndercoverToad: i don't properly reset between each turn
dbdr: itzluku my bot is not that smart, it
dbdr: 's a conincidence
itzluku: ok xd but it looked rly sick
dbdr: can you link the replay?
itzluku: overriden that condition state
itzluku: or can i access it somewhere?
itzluku: wasnt in teh arena
Marchete: you consider your bot legend level, dbdr?
Marchete: do*
itzluku: how does the leaderboard scoe gets calculated again?
itzluku: score*
UndercoverToad: there is no legend level before tuesday
dbdr: Marchete no. 100 gold maybe :)
UndercoverToad: you are better than that already but most likely not legend
itzluku: top100 gold?
Tiramon: ok from 3k-7k turns simulated yesterday to 21k-47k is an improvement
and i also get other options than WAIT ;)
UndercoverToad: i fixed that too
UndercoverToad: and 100k tested plans in 1.4s now (was 3.4s)
Tiramon: changing to bits from my previous list and streams was a real good idea ;)
Tiramon: what is a plan for you? complete playthrough from day 0 - 23?
Marchete: blursed bitboards
UndercoverToad: 2 days with actions. then WAIT till the end of game to count suns
Tiramon: ok so on something up to 30 turns or so
UndercoverToad: was testing a state from mid-game
UndercoverToad: some actions to generate but no 23 days to fast-forward
Tiramon: still a value that is not comparable =)
only comparable sim value is amount of turns
UndercoverToad: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/47cbdaf1-3b0d-4cfa-a8e8-6235e1969d03
UndercoverToad: i don't want to compare with you
UndercoverToad: i want to compare bitboard vs non-bitboard
Tiramon: primarly seed actions
Tiramon: sure but i want to compare to know how slow i am ;)
UndercoverToad: also don't listen to UndercoverToad, you won't even find me on the leaderboard
Tiramon: right he is only rank3 ... what does he know ...
UndercoverToad: i was around 150
UndercoverToad: submitting that bitboard now
Tiramon: is only simulating 2 days enough to complete all trees in the end?
resty-daze: complete some trees may not worth it when there are no nutrients
UndercoverToad: of course not
UndercoverToad: i'm still building my sim, the use of it comes later
Tiramon: complete trees are still more score than non completed trees ...
itzluku: @dbdr i think u sell alot of t3's when u have too much suns :D
itzluku: many*
UndercoverToad: > complete some trees may not worth it when there are no nutrients
can't you say that a bit earlier? did some debugging why I don't complete it
UndercoverToad: scoring function was smarter than me
actualCoderTrevor: my bot with bugs does better than when I fix the bugs :(
Tiramon: but yes completing richness 0 trees is a waste of suns in the end ... hm ...
UndercoverToad: also my richness is always 0 in the current bitboard version :(
UndercoverToad: still have to include that again
Tiramon: richness 1 i mean
UndercoverToad: me too
UndercoverToad: 0 point richness but seedable
Tiramon: but you can doe the board/richness stuff static per game
UndercoverToad: i still need a fast lookup
Tiramon: int[] richness ?!
UndercoverToad: yes
UndercoverToad: and converting the tree bitmask to an array index
UndercoverToad: I have
return IdReverse[BitOperations.TrailingZeroCount((ulong)mask)];
UndercoverToad: not completely happy with it
UndercoverToad: and i should prune my move generator
UndercoverToad: no seeding on day 20
Gagat: IdReverse ?
UndercoverToad: static array
Tiramon: ok now i have to fix the algo how i sim and eval that ... current one is crap
UndercoverToad: my bitboard uses other IDs than the CG IDs so I have to convert
UndercoverToad: https://imgur.com/a/FgBBsgb
Gagat: right, same here then
Gagat: Not exactly the same ids
Gagat: Oh I like your ids
Gagat: Shift is going to be more simple than mine
UndercoverToad: what did you do differently? no padding at the edge?
Gagat: Except for boundaries
UndercoverToad: oh :D
Gagat: Guess i'll stick with mine, don't want to bother with boundaries
UndercoverToad: it's just an AND-operation to remove those bits outside of the board
Gagat: I have ids from 0 to 37
Gagat: just from the top left to the bottom right, line by line
UndercoverToad: i see, that's a big difference
Gagat: I'm thinking about the shifts for the shadows
Gagat: oh right, no you have no problems
Gagat: Don't need boundaries on both sides
actualCoderTrevor: UndercoverToad is that a visualization you normally see or did you make that fpr illustrative purposes? I'm just curious.
UndercoverToad: there is a debug view in the game itself
actualCoderTrevor: I mean the ids
UndercoverToad: and the red numbers are my kolourpaint skills
actualCoderTrevor: Oh okay thanks :)
Marchete: BitOperations.TrailingZeroCount or System.Runtime.Intrinsics.X86.Bmi1.TrailingZeroCount
Marchete: ?
Marchete: I'm using directly intrinsics
Marchete: Bmi1.X64.TrailingZeroCount(counter);
Marchete: sorry
UndercoverToad: is there any difference?
Marchete: yes
UndercoverToad: oh, thanks :D
Marchete: I'm explicitly saying Bmi1.X64
Marchete: BitOperations.TrailingZeroCount can be more general
Marchete: mine crashes is you don't have Bmi1 capable
UndercoverToad: i guess same goes for popcount
Marchete: yeah
Marchete: Popcnt.X64.PopCount
Marchete: .net 3.1 has a lot of new stuff
Marchete: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/793856ea-3778-4b04-844f-59baeb1f807f
NotSureWhyThisWorks: 3 people in top 5 with python bots. What type of algos can make it top 10 with python?
jacek: ifletons
Marchete: there is also a MethodImplOptions.AggressiveOptimization decorator
Marchete: I need to check it
Marchete: typescript on top10 too, nice
resty-daze: NotSureWhyThisWorks my bot just greedy, not even consider next turn in the same day
UndercoverToad: hm, so far I only knew about AggressiveInlining
NotSureWhyThisWorks: resty-daze that's awesome for rank 9
NotSureWhyThisWorks: also how do you tag people
Marchete: so no simulation resty-daze?
jacek: NotSureWhyThisWorks what do you mean
resty-daze: Marchete ye no simulation
Marchete: wow, nice eval :D
UndercoverToad: jacek trolling again :D
Marchete: eulerscheZahl what do you mean
jacek: Automaton2000 how do you write in red
Automaton2000: that last bit triggers me, oh well.
Marchete: any good idea to apply seed masks to each cell?
Marchete: having a mask per cell and size seems too big
Illedan: Morning
Marchete: I have freespaces, cell ID, tree size
Marchete: i need some seedmask[size][ID]
Marchete: but 37*3 ...
Nerchio: why is it too big?
Nerchio: you don't really keep it in the state right
KaizenGTD: hi
UndercoverToad: to fit in the processor cache
KaizenGTD: what is the criteria to promote to next league?
UndercoverToad: rank above the boss at 100% submit progress
Tiramon: get a stable rank better than the boss
UndercoverToad: at the moment bronze is the highest, silver on Monday
KaizenGTD: how can I see where is the boss? I don't see anything in the ranking
UndercoverToad: which league?
Nerchio: ok i thought about the cache but i dont see the need for such optimization atm
UndercoverToad: in wood the boss is at the top of the league
KaizenGTD: I'm in Bronze League
UndercoverToad: then there is no boss
Tiramon: as he said a few lines before ;)
UndercoverToad: UndercoverToad 11:04AM
at the moment bronze is the highest, silver on Monday
resty-daze: boss will be selected from a player's bot when silver open
jacek:
UndercoverToad 11:05AM
UndercoverToad 11:04AM
at the moment bronze is the highest, silver on Monday
KaizenGTD: ok, understood, thank you!!
UndercoverToad: An unhandled exception of type 'System.PlatformNotSupportedException' occurred in System.Private.CoreLib.dll: 'Operation is not supported on this platform.'
at System.Runtime.Intrinsics.X86.Bmi1.X64.TrailingZeroCount(UInt64 value)
UndercoverToad: my PC is old Marchete
KaizenGTD: That sounds too bad
Marchete: :rolf:
Marchete: :rofl:
Marchete: then it's working as intended
Marchete: that's good
dbdr: so old as not to have ctlz??
AntiSquid: what is your real max turn time in ms ?
UndercoverToad: from 2011 or 2012, not sure anymore
AntiSquid: seems to work for 95ms
UndercoverToad: i'm stopping at 20ms. no need to go further that early in the contest
AntiSquid: i am stress testing so i don't get surprises later on
UndercoverToad: stress testing the servers?
AntiSquid: both code and server i guess lol
AntiSquid: NotSureWhyThisWorks numpy magic
cegprakash: dbdr https://www.codingame.com/replay/548862230 may be once in a bluemoon but I still beat you
dbdr: :+1:
jacek: once in a bluesun
cegprakash: why should moon have all the fun?
351062: Am I the only one experiencing random timeouts in the arena ? Should I blame my code ?
Neumann: (cpp)
AntiSquid: never in IDE ? that's why i asked @_@
Neumann: I meant IDE :D
AntiSquid: what time limit did you set?
Neumann: 85ms
Neumann: We used to have timeout issues on optim games a while back, wondering if that's the same kind of issue
AntiSquid: might be your code
Neumann: Probably yeah
AntiSquid: i can go to 95
pmor: a few contests ago I ahd that problem...ended up being due to taking too much memory
pmor: looked like a timeout
Nagatwin: I can go up to 99ms
Nagatwin: with a straight goto print at time limit
Tiramon: damn simulating in the early game is really hard ...
cegprakash: Bronze too crowded
jrke: yup 4000+ in bronze
cegprakash: 200 in wood2, 400 in wood1 and 4000 in Bronze
peerdb: what time does silver open on monday?
StyllyMyle: Gys
Jo4: what are you guys thought on having the premade stubs for a CoC not be the correct datatype?
DetoBot: why not open the Silver tomorrow
StyllyMyle: I am worried about the time taking for my program
Jo4: just did one where the input is read as int, but must be read as a long. No test case checks for this, only a validator
StyllyMyle: like i am trying to make bot but it requires me around 3-4 times looping possible actions
Michael_Howard: OK, so this is super-weird. I agree with this bug report: https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/spring-challenge-2021-bugs-questions/190526/28 and can see it myself, but my shadow code agrees with the ref.
UndercoverToad: do you have a replay on that Michael_Howard?
Tiramon: isn't that just a after grow shadows are not recalculated?
Michael_Howard: How do I do that?
UndercoverToad: click the 3 dots below the viewer
UndercoverToad: and then share the link
Michael_Howard: https://www.codingame.com/replay/548887851
Michael_Howard: Turn 80
Michael_Howard: Top
UndercoverToad: only the beginning of the day matters
Michael_Howard: There's one place where shadows count down 3-2-1
UndercoverToad: you grew the tree after
Michael_Howard: Ah
Michael_Howard: Thanks
Marchete: beggining of the day?
Tiramon: as i said shaodws are not recalculated after you grow a tree
Marchete: so shadows are calc'ed at start of the day only?
UndercoverToad: so who replies on the forum post?
Tiramon: yes ... only moment they are important
Michael_Howard: I can do it.
Marchete: day and not turn, right?
UndercoverToad: day
Tiramon: i wrote a compact answer toady
Michael_Howard: Actually I wanna investigate first & check I understand it. If someone wants to post earlier they're welcome to use my replay.
UndercoverToad: thanks, then i don't have to use my other account or write with this alias on the forum
Michael_Howard: Why don't you want to do that?
UndercoverToad: laggy chat
UndercoverToad: moderators see all chat users. that's close to making my browser crash
UndercoverToad: from Friday: https://imgur.com/a/BmQQwpa
UndercoverToad: spot the scrollbar
UndercoverToad: *Thursday
Michael_Howard: No I mean why not write on forum as UndercoverToad?
UndercoverToad: because it's not my main account
GuillaumeBardy: how can we know sun direction ?
UndercoverToad: day%6
GuillaumeBardy: d
GuillaumeBardy: thanks !
GuillaumeBardy: i was not sure that sun comes every time from same diretion at start of game
Donald_D._Doge: entire site works faster without mod status
jacek: yeah, get rid of mods. who needs them
peerdb: modCheck
Illedan: I'll kick myself then?
Passifi: If you kick yourself in the butt I give you 5 €
AntiSquid: you can use your heel if you are flexible enough
peerdb: yeah heel is ez money
NotSureWhyThisWorks: rank keeps going up, are people submitting worse bots?
Tiramon: hm i don't generate complete actions .. maybe thats the reason why i loose all games with that bot =)
Marchete: on purpose?
Passifi: btw nerds does anyone know how linkedin knows the people I have met in real life ? It always scares me, those aren't my facebook friends and I am not connected to anyone on linkedin so how do they know that I worked with this random dude at a bar 4 years back...
struct: yeah i submited my worse version
NotSureWhyThisWorks: I can't tell if you are joking struct
JoKing: i hate this chat
jacek: Oo
NotSureWhyThisWorks: lmao
struct: Well you dont have to be on it
JoKing: i'm *not*, it just tells me i have a message while i'm doing other stuff
NotSureWhyThisWorks: does it ping automatically?
JoKing: yup, dumb system
NotSureWhyThisWorks: interesting
AntiSquid: is joKing a JoJo reference?
AntiSquid: are were you just joking ?
JoKing: my name is Jo.* King
AntiSquid: hey JoKing you can edit your username in your profile btw
JoKing: i like my name though
AntiSquid: hope you're joking
NotSureWhyThisWorks: we know he is joking
Passifi: chat soon to be caught in an infinite pun loop
itzluku: https://www.codingame.com/replay/548941791
itzluku: @delineate
Passifi: is your childs name kid by any chance ?
itzluku: error
itzluku: xd
JoKing: .. kid king?
AntiSquid: you need another jo syllabe in there
AntiSquid: how about JosephJoking ?
Passifi: kidding obviously it has its mothers last name
StyllyMyle: So would you program bot to make different actions per like range of rounds
StyllyMyle: or do it in one
AntiSquid: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/468fdc80-b522-45af-96ca-c03e6979fb43
StyllyMyle: bcz rn im not checking day time, just doing general actions that i believe will make bot win
AntiSquid: https://www.babynamewizard.com/baby-name/boy/jo
Tiramon: oh great using 2 bits for size but only using one in the bitmask ... no wonder i don't generate complete actions
GeorgiD: 02354310 -> 1
12386456792 -> 2
122352261232 -> 2
dreadylein: ;D
GeorgiD: Any idea what the logic is?
GeorgiD: Also 1235682312368 -> 1
GeorgiD: And 0 -> 0
Passifi: what could make the python debugger think that print("answer") is invalid syntax ?
NotSureWhyThisWorks: show the code
GeorgiD: Yeah copy paste it
GeorgiD: Can anyone check the previous examples I sent? It was in my reverse mode lobby and no one got it right
AntiSquid: not the time to share contest code .
AntiSquid: unless it's bits
Passifi: ah I got it didn't properly close some brackets somewhere else, still not sure why it didn't just complain about that and instead jumped to the end of the code and then started to complain
NotSureWhyThisWorks: sometimes I forget the f on f strings
RoboStac: GeorgiD - https://www.codingame.com/contribute/view/6545a362057d0d03114289e2e83b8f558c28 . Looks horrendous for a reverse clash
GeorgiD: Damn couldn't have thought of that like ever
DevLorenzo: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/4f2ffce1-4f7a-4bde-a889-6b067e852f74
RoboStac: sounds like others are struggling too so it may get downvoted enough to be removed
DevLorenzo: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/3a9b9b06-ce7b-45fd-bf0a-59dcf0573936
struct: ouch my bot finally dropped hard
Sakisan: oh wow I didn't realize but I have reached struct's bot rank too hehe
dreadylein: are you allowed to tell us howmuch you decreased your bots performance vs the full thing ? :)
Sakisan: ^
struct: hard to say
struct: I have no idea
struct: I know that my bot doesnt use full time but thats about it
dreadylein: ah
dreadylein: mh intressting :D
dreadylein: how good would you say was your eval ?
struct: probably bad
struct: i only bmade this eval the day before the contest
struct: my other bots were worse
dreadylein: yeah building a good eval seems hard
struct: This one had like 95% win rate vs my other bots
dreadylein: hehe
struct: It might be good if I take into account enemy actions
dreadylein: that was a beamsearch you said right ?
struct: yes
dreadylein: wonder howmuch of an actual hit your bot took by decreasing the time :D depth helps but with a beamsearch and ignoring the opponent the benefit of deeper nodes should decrease fast i guess
struct: well beam width might help
struct: Im gonan try chokudai now
dreadylein: true
HIRO15254: Hello
HIRO15254: I'm playing Spring Challenge 2021 and using python
HIRO15254: when I get inputs, I want to use list.append()
HIRO15254: but if I use it, printed this massage and I can't get input: Warning: your code did not read all available input before printing an instruction, your outputs will not be synchronized with the game's turns and unexpected behaviour may occur.
HIRO15254: Is there anyone same as me?
(Sorry I'm Japanese so the English may not good)
itzluku: print("Debug messages...", file=sys.stderr, flush=True)
itzluku: u need to set that param
itzluku: for ur debug prints
itzluku: also documented as a comment in your default codefile
HIRO15254: Ok, I'll try it
StyllyMyle: btw anyone that understood how to traverse and get distance between two cells?
dreadylein: for the contest ?
Uemu-yazid: Bruh I really can't grasp how to use shadows in this contest
dreadylein: what you mean ? hehe
Uemu-yazid: I didn't use that yet haha
MattLGX: For the distance, you can say 1 for the neighbours ans 2 for the neighbours of the neighbours that are not in the distance = 1 list
dreadylein: you an also look in the refree
dreadylein: in the game description is a link to the github repo
Uemu-yazid: Oh
dreadylein: CubeCoord has the implementation that calculates distance neighbours etc
Marchete: yeah, you need CubeCoord to go beyond neighbour distance 1
itzluku: what do u mean with neighbor distance?
StyllyMyle: I still cant get how to figure out cells
Marchete: I mean shadow related
StyllyMyle: guess i will just be using surrounding cells? but that makes things very complicated
Marchete: you maybe want to calc if you have a tree at distance 2 that can block you
Chainman: what is the CubeCoord?
StyllyMyle: what is x y z in CubeCoord?
StyllyMyle: https://github.com/CodinGame/SpringChallenge2021/blob/2785b58e5eb136fdc5349825c33454fa7838270b/src/main/java/com/codingame/game/CubeCoord.java
Chainman: You can compute distance by creating a graph with the neighbor nodes for each node.
Chainman: IDK that's what I did
dreadylein: You can describe any cell in a hexfield with 3 cordinates
Marchete: https://github.com/CodinGame/SpringChallenge2021/blob/1dac6d0019d55890326edb25b2540df4b6a41179/src/main/java/com/codingame/game/BoardGenerator.java#L20-L43
itzluku: ah
Marchete: center is 0,0,0
Marchete: other than that you can "propagate" using
DetoBot: can be considered as a cone
itzluku: yeh u can travel through sun_directions to neighbors and return that info
Marchete: coord = coord.neighbor(direction);
itzluku: since each cell hold the next index for a given sun dir
itzluku: sun dir and neighbor index are the same
StyllyMyle: so you mean enforcing custom coords system r8?
StyllyMyle: by taking three axes and propagating
itzluku: no need imo
StyllyMyle: then mapping the coords?
itzluku: but u need your own model if u want to simulate boards
StyllyMyle: I cant get how x y z can be mapped to a 2d matrix
Marchete: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/01f606c2-9a0f-4907-b6f9-e5a46969a888
Astrobytes: https://www.redblobgames.com/grids/hexagons/
Marchete: from a modified starter C# bot
Chainman: I'm not sure how this CubeCord helps for the code in ide.
dreadylein: cords allow for easier time to get distances between 2 cells etc
alchemsti: @stylleyMyle -- the reason is that for the hexes, xyz aren't independent -- taking one step in both x and z is the same as a single in y
alchemsti: But for distances xyz is convenient
Chainman: You can use the hashcode to convert cellIndex -> CubeCoords (x,y,z)
franciszer: mcst
franciszer: monte
itzluku: xD i have a probellm were a var randomly transforms from an int to a bool value
itzluku: wtf
alchemsti: The CubeCoord is giving a nice way to do the various geometric calculations
Wontonimo: wow, sleep for a few hours and my rank doubles, in a bad way
itzluku: problem*
Marchete: CELL 8 Tree Size:1: [20,21,9,2,1,7,
CELL 8 Tree Size:2: [20,21,9,2,1,7,23,3,6,36,
CELL 8 Size:3: [20,21,9,2,1,7,23,3,6,36,12,16,
alchemsti: "One weird trick to drop your rank by 200 places"
Wontonimo: lol
alchemsti: Do nothing for a few hours
itzluku: my rank increases with time
itzluku: LOL
dreadylein: @franciszer possible but most likely not the best call
Chainman: hmmmm
Marchete: right now top100 is doable without game simulation
itzluku: prob top40
Marchete: just the starter AI and checking neighbours and stuff
Marchete: I mean
Marchete: for what my bot did
StyllyMyle: btw
Wontonimo: i didn't use the starter AI
StyllyMyle: at higher leagues should we still have possible actions?
Marchete: yes
itzluku: starter AI ?
dreadylein: game wont change after bronze
alchemsti: Looking at the CubeCoord and board generation code was helpful, e.g. I was always a bit worried the cell ID layout might change.
StyllyMyle: that kinda feel cheat to me as it simplifies a lot of things
alchemsti: But it seems fixed.
Marchete: cell id doesn't change
Wontonimo: itzluku there is a link at the very beginning of the description
NotSureWhyThisWorks: Marchete top 20 is doable without simulation right now
Wontonimo: called "starter kit"
dreadylein: the possible actions are a convinience thing to help out people
Marchete: thanks NotSureWhyThisWorks :D
dreadylein: otherwise you exclude anyone thats not able to fully implement the engine
Donald_D._Doge: hi, new here, what are the new silver rules?
Tiramon: bronze is final ruleset
NotSureWhyThisWorks: hopefully it stays like that lol
alchemsti: re simulation or not -- that seems a fake choice, in that if you can evaluate a board 'perfectly' you don't need any simulation
dreadylein: define evalute ;)
alchemsti: So it's kind of a trade-off -- do you invest in simulating quickly and going deep, or evaluating well
alchemsti: I find the simulation in this one is pretty tricky (with sun, shading, and opponent action) that I'm not so motivated.
dreadylein: the engine is easier then it looks at first :)
NotSureWhyThisWorks: there aren't many short term tactics in this game unlike chess or something so I think long term strategy is most important. And that can be done lots of ways
alchemsti: By evaluating I mean judging the result of a move -
Wontonimo: dreadylein are you simulating days or moves?
alchemsti: so you pick the 'best' one
Wontonimo: alchemsti and dreadylein : I would say evaluation would be "will this lead to a win"
alchemsti: right!
alchemsti: This game has really interesting time aspects, IMO
dreadylein: if you have a perfect evaluation, yeah you wouldnt need a search, but only if the evaluation allready considers any possible enemey move
alchemsti: There is the balance between expansion and harvest
Wontonimo: if it was chess, advancing all pawns 1 square then repeating that 4 more times will not lead to a win ... for exampl
Wontonimo: what alchemsti said
Marchete: imo all the game is resumed as
Marchete: mysun-enemysun
alchemsti: Depending on what your opponent does, of course :D
alchemsti: (advancing your pawn could win, but is unlikely to)
Marchete: mysun as collected sun
alchemsti: resumed?
Wontonimo: i don't take into account what my opponent does, so therefore you can get into the top 50 without paying attention to the opponent
dreadylein: oh i can see this
alchemsti: Do you care where your opponent is?
dreadylein: also the main algos choosen are kind hard to implement with enemy moves
Zaphus: @Wontonimo same here (but not qutie in the top 50)
alchemsti: I'm currently ignoring the opponent as well (but also not top 50 :D )
StyllyMyle: Hey im so much thankful to the post
Wontonimo: alchemsti you can't place where a tree already exists, but otehr than that i don't
StyllyMyle: it finally made me understand that hex grids can be rep as xyz cube
dreadylein: :)
StyllyMyle: but is there any formula to convert the single index to xyz pos and vice versa?
Wontonimo: cool Zaphus, we will battle to the death
StyllyMyle: or should i statically map each and every pos with respective xyz
alchemsti: Huh, interesting. My planned next step is going to take opponent position into account
alchemsti: @StyllyMyle the code on GitHub does a nice trick so you don't need to convert
Zaphus: Wontonimo - or go down in flames together!
StyllyMyle: alchemsti CubeCoords? but it doesnt have conversion function right
Wontonimo: in other hex games i cast it to squares with a 1/2 shift per line and then one diagonal is not allowed. same effect and way easier to calculate
Marchete: map from center
alchemsti: Instead of using the obvious directions of [1, 0, 0] [0, 1, 0] [0, 0, 1] [-1 , 0 0]
Marchete: center in 0,0,0
Marchete: then according what they gave you
itzluku: sdjfahgsdif
Marchete: center.neighbour[i]
alchemsti: it uses [1, -1, 0]
itzluku: just searching bugs
StyllyMyle: Hm wait that might be it
alchemsti: This lets you do nice distance and direction calculations
itzluku: how can an int randoms become a bool
StyllyMyle: I know my 6 neigbours
StyllyMyle: and the xyz coord of center one
alchemsti: @itzluku: the joys of untyped languages?
StyllyMyle: plus those six must be arranged in array or something
alchemsti: Or it's treated as a bool (!! or != 0 or...)
itzluku: @alchemsti yeh.. using python to learn it
alchemsti: Those six are the six directions
itzluku: but i just dont find the type switch
StyllyMyle: so if i could calculate relative pos of these neighbours, i can +-1 in respetive direction to get a cube grid r8?
itzluku: qq
alchemsti: If you draw it on paper, you'll see
StyllyMyle: wtf im so noob :(
alchemsti: Ha, I hadn't seen it before iether. But it's the six directions expressed so that the math to do distance is easier
Wontonimo: you are given a neighbours list in the init, and the neigh_1, neigh_2, etc are always the same directions. The first is always to the right, second is northeast. So if you want to calculate a straight line of 3 squares, just iteratively look up the same ordinal neighbour
Wontonimo: great for if/else bot, horrible efficiency for simulation
alchemsti: @itzluku My understanding is the Python figures out type from how its used. (type inference) If you want to narrow it down, you can try doing things like adding zero to it -- this should be okay for numbers and not okay for booleans.
alchemsti: But don't quote me, I don't use Python that much
Marchete: just be cautious
Marchete: neighbour list has -1 if it's not a legal neighbour
Marchete: so just skip there -1
Marchete: these*
alchemsti: yeah, hit that, using c++, which will happily look up a value at -1 of an array :/
alchemsti: All right good luck folks!
itzluku: well i use a print statement in a loop... and for the first iteration it prints an int and then on a bool
itzluku: xd
itzluku: no idea
itzluku: lol
Michael_Howard: Why is everyone worrying about xyz-coord hex grids when only the neighbour chain in each direction affects anything? Am I missing something?
itzluku: na i would also just traverse through neighbor cells with a depth
itzluku: btw i serialised 0 and 1 for is_mine to bool values somewhere so i have cells with -1 or True or False
itzluku: ..............
itzluku: why did i do that :D
alchemsti: Michael_Howard: shade
alchemsti: Good ole' trinary logic
alchemsti: (for itzluku -- search for 'true false file not found')
Michael_Howard: alchamesti yeah, only in the neighbour chain, which you can get easy.
Michael_Howard: Was wondering if everyone's doing advanced battlefield tactics where distance matters between cells that can't spook each-other.
itzluku: or wait
itzluku: is str(0)=False in python ???
itzluku: and str(1)=True
jacek: no
jacek: str(0) is "0"
jacek: and its not False
itzluku: :/
itzluku: hm
alchemsti: I'm currently only using distance to check what I can seed, but i'm also only at place ~300
itzluku: maybe is_mine input is not 0 and 1 but a bool value if that index is owned by anyone?
itzluku: idk i thought its -1,1 or 0
itzluku: but maybe its -1 True or False
itzluku: ?
jacek: is_mine = inputs[2] != "0"
itzluku: WTF
itzluku: fk me
itzluku: ty! xd
Zaphus: Wontonimo - we meet at last https://www.codingame.com/replay/549037639
Wontonimo: i bow to your greatness
Zaphus: :joy:
Wontonimo: :thumbsup:
Chainman: How do you get them to say things in the replay? lol
why_anonymous: allo
algeo: space + command
Wontonimo: instead of returning "WAIT", return "WAIT i will taunt you a second time"
xangma: Dumb question, when it says: "As long as you have enough sun points, you can take any number of actions." what does that mean specifically?
xangma: any of the 4 possible types?
xangma: any number of any type?
Thienu: you can take any number of any type of turn in a day
Zaphus: whatever you want - before you wait
xangma: Right ok, thanks
xangma: very much
Zaphus: but on separate game ticks (or whatever you call it)
Thienu: yes
Wontonimo: right
xangma: separate says?
xangma: days*
Wontonimo: no, the day only progresses once both players wait
Zaphus: some other games let you do "ACTION 1; ACTION 2; ACTION 3; WAIT" as a single response. This game only takes one action per loop
itzluku: its turn based
itzluku: in bronze u can make multiple actions per day
itzluku: war u in wood?
itzluku: are*
algeo: not at same time
xangma: hmmmm I'm in bronze, as soon as I start doing more than one action per day it starts saying I'm out of sync
Zaphus: a loop is not a day, dont mix the two up
xangma: OH
Wontonimo: just one action per turn
algeo: some turns = day
Wontonimo: the day doesn't roll over until you wait
xangma: OH I get it now
xangma: Right thanks
Wontonimo: it took me a while also tbh
xangma: Thanks very much
itzluku: jesus
itzluku: another bug because i compared a str with an int prepresentation
itzluku: ....
dreadylein: you can precalcutelate any possible shading/seeding in advance
dreadylein: woops
CGGCoder: Just a quick question, what does a 'Dormant Tree' mean?
martinpapa69: what can you precalculate in seeding ?
Marchete: thx for the tip dreadylein :D
Machinist: Hi Everyone.
Machinist: Have a good day
dreadylein: woops was for the late response chat was way scrolled up
dreadylein: :D
dbf: CGGCoder, from rules page: "Any tree impacted by one of your actions becomes dormant for the rest of the day. A dormant tree cannot be the subject of an action. "
CGGCoder: Thanks!
dbf: so it is a cooldown
itzluku: yes
itzluku: ->day24 growing a t2 to a t3 not worth
CGGCoder: true
CGGCoder: You should harvest all of the remaining trees
itzluku: is is_mine not getting updated for every turn?
itzluku: only initial?
ddreams: what would make you think that?
Wontonimo: it gets updated every turn
itzluku: i haven an index with 0 but that cell was completed from my opp some turns before
itzluku: meaning it wasnt updated or i overriden the updated cell somehow
Zaphus: Cells dont get updated, only trees - and if completed you just dont get a message about it next turn meaning it is not there
itzluku: is_mine = inputs[2]
itzluku: it does get updated every turn
Zaphus: but only for trees that exist at that turn
itzluku: oh
itzluku: hm
Zaphus: clear your cells of tree information between turns, then refresh it when loading (thats what I do)
Zaphus: but dont clear other cell info like neighbours
itzluku: yes ill try that, ty!
itzluku: sneaky
alchemsti: Yeah, I'm not sure if I have it in it's final form, but it took a bit of tweaking to nicely separate out the fixed stuff from the changing
VizGhar: how deep your searches are guys
VizGhar: ?
ZarthaxX: 1
ZarthaxX: :P
ItsNotABug: 0
VizGhar: noice :D
ZarthaxX: not doing the beam yet tho
Thienu: spent whole day implementing simulation here
ItsNotABug: Does silver open today or tomorrow?
VizGhar: I hopped into it in Dart lang and it was freaking mistake
VizGhar: now I'm reworking it into C++... never ever competitive dart
Wontonimo: Thienu woot! how's the sim going?
cloudberry:
ZarthaxX: saw that dart took a lot for a bfs
Thienu: painful hahaha
Wontonimo: VizGhar , my search is 0 depth
ZarthaxX: :P
ZarthaxX: its technically depth 1..
VizGhar: So you are that if-else guy? :P
ZarthaxX: the one and only wonto
Wontonimo: no, i prefer sim just haven't got around to it for this competition
ZarthaxX: you can stay with if else
Wontonimo: i'm thinking my first sim implementation will be beam or DFS using my current if/else as the opponent logic
ZarthaxX: that's perfect :P
Marchete: that's a good idea
Marchete: ignoring enemy seems strange in this game
BlaiseEbuth: Zarthouuuuuuuu! Where's ze bear?
Wontonimo: well, it's an idea at least. it has the potential to try and overfit beating my if/else but the benefit of being fast for the opponent side of th calculation. I'll let you know how it goes
ZarthaxX: python n1 again
ZarthaxX: BlaiseEbuth oh man wait a sec :P
Wontonimo: i'll port to c++
ZarthaxX: gl :)
Wontonimo: haha , how is python N1 ?
ZarthaxX: if else is strong
Wontonimo: yeah, for sure
ZarthaxX: BlaiseEbuth bear mode on
BlaiseEbuth: Yéé!
BlaiseEbuth: I reload
Noyotens: someone know how to get neighbors rishness
ZarthaxX: :D
ZarthaxX: Noyotens save the data somewhere?
Noyotens: plz guys tell me how
BlaiseEbuth: Spy them
ZarthaxX: you got it on input
ZarthaxX: lol
VizGhar: ri what?
Wontonimo: yeah, Oioi (n1) bot returns in about the same time as my bot, so it doesn't seem to be doing much sim if it is
ZarthaxX: richness VizGhar
ZarthaxX: Wontonimo how do you know?
Noyotens: lol
ZarthaxX: the return time :P
Wontonimo: ZarthaxX I don't know it exactly, but in by selecting that bot as an opponent and running a few "Play my code" and using wall clock, it has the same wall clock as pitting my bot against itself.
Wontonimo: if it used all its compute resources then it would have used 1000ms + 100ms*127turns = a lot of seconds
Wontonimo: around 13 seconds
Wontonimo: but it returned in about 3
ZarthaxX: ahh ok
Oioi: Wontonimo : right, only heuristic right now
ZarthaxX: what a god
ZarthaxX: gz Oioi
Wontonimo: HEY Oioi !
struct: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Oioi: hi :-)
VizGhar: oioioi :) whats going on struc t?
VizGhar: at least you are not below 1k like me
struct: yeah, but I probably spent a lot more time on it
VizGhar: i dont think so... wrote it in dart and trown it away... so i'm starting over
struct: I tested the contest though
Chainman: hey :grin:
ZarthaxX: struct harder without opps
Chainman: if else to the top I guess here
struct: I will soon take revenge on all these if elses
Chainman: with else if?
struct: if it is what it takes
Wontonimo: go struct !
algeo: is it true that the center of grid contains most richest soli . i am in wood2
algeo: *always
Astrobytes: True AI go brrrr
algeo: go
algeo: ok
ZarthaxX: hi astrobytooo
Astrobytes: hey TreethaxX
Rabeeb: T
ZarthaxX: nice one :P
GameSurt: what is the best language for cyber security
ZarthaxX: i guess python
Astrobytes: HTML
ZarthaxX: LMAO
GameSurt: ))
VizGhar: ssh (they can hear you)
Astrobytes: hah
Wontonimo: no one can hear you on ssh, it's secure sh
Astrobytes: I thought that was the joke :/
Wontonimo: algeo i haven't seen a board yet where the center isn't the richest. but regardless, that info is provided as input to your bot
algeo: ok
Wontonimo: i'm slow Astrobytes
Astrobytes: :grin:
BlaiseEbuth: Wooooonntooooooniiiiiiiisloooowwww
Wontonimo: think slow, type fast. not a great combo on my work chat
jrke: i think there will be 5000+ bronzies when silver will open
itzluku: bronzies xd
itzluku: im losing against my old version xD
BlaiseEbuth: Wontonimo https://i.imgur.com/sXUhxx8.gif
Wontonimo: yeah, pretty much :D
algeo: wood 2 get minimum 6 points :p well if then i can first in unused languages by others
Harsha.123: i am new joiner in this codingame
Harsha.123: :raised_hand:
Wontonimo: hey :wave:
algeo: welcome to the world of bots
dreadylein: welcome
Wontonimo: have a great day coding everyone. I'm off to enjoy the sun while it lasts
Astrobytes: enjoy Wontonimo!
algeo: first i thought the hexagonal grid will hard to manage then realised it doesn't matter :)
struct: No sun until legend
Astrobytes: Gotta say, I'm struggling to find the motivation to do anything
ClockSort: awesome, more than 4k players in Bronze now
ClockSort: it's time to write some code.
Michael_Howard: How can I print something that will let me match console output to game screen? Can't just turn++ because don't get input when sleep.
Michael_Howard: Sometimes when it's halfway between it can get confusing which console output is for which video frame.
RoboStac: you can display messages on screen by putting them after your action (eg "COMPLETE 3 HELLO") - you could display your turn variable there so it matches between console and screen
Michael_Howard: Yeah I'm doing that, hoped there was a better way. OK, thanks :)
algeo: i won every match in wood2 now with the same code without running in this league i am 15 :o
ClockSort: you'll probably drop
algeo: :\ lol
algeo: WAIT command is not useful in every league ?
ItsNotABug: beating wood 2 is like beating a new born baby at tennis
algeo: for a new born baby it is like ..
jacek: oO
itzluku: xD
itzluku: my bot is worse if i consider shadows
slamo: how do you print debug text in go?
RoboStac: fmt.Fprintln(os.Stderr, "Debug messages...")
slamo: thank you!!
ItsNotABug: Consider shadows less?
algeo: dormant tree = size 3 ?
itzluku: no
algeo: oh
ItsNotABug: dormant is if its been used, or newly planted
algeo: oh ok
itzluku: used "that day"
itzluku: gets non dormant again next day
algeo: :thumbsup:
itzluku: lul now my bot won
itzluku: i only consider 1/3 of the remaining days
algeo: nice
itzluku: xd
LouAndrejMosot: Where can i practice
itzluku: https://www.codingame.com/replay/549174185
itzluku: these games are so close...
itzluku: https://www.codingame.com/replay/549177312
itzluku: cmon :D
KelvinAndHubbles: is the bronze AI going to translate to the boss? If so, that's an incredibly weak boss
icecream17: no, default is always easy to beat
itzluku: does anyone know if new divisions add new features?
itzluku: uh i made top100 again
peerdb: no, this is the final ruleset @itzluku
itzluku: good xd
VSD2807: Could anyone help me with a python line. What shall I place to make this work. If "SEED" in possible_actions, then continue, else go to next
VSD2807: The problem is for finding the word SEED
tomatoes: if 'SEED' in line:
VSD2807: Tried that already, SyntaxError: invalid syntax
icecream17: vsd, see: https://imgur.com/a/AckA7TM
icecream17: there shouldn't be an error
VSD2807: http://prntscr.com/12ohu2o
VSD2807: Have a look please
KelvinAndHubbles: thats checking if seed is in the list, not if seed is in an action in the list
algeo: u need to go through
algeo: the list
icecream17: python thinks that "block" is a set or object
icecream17: "not a function" - error
icecream17: *dict
icecream17: # Python parses it like this: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/6da5755d-1006-499b-9b85-c6466a3e1c2c
VSD2807: Ah gotcha. Thanks for the help, no more error
GrekMaR: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/0699feb0-6e30-4aea-ab83-cc16097bd934
GrekMaR: ^ Anyone who does java code golf who knows how to shorten boilerplate code?
KelvinAndHubbles: get rid of spacing and put it on one line?
GrekMaR: ofc i do that when golfing, this is just for visibility I do spacing and lines ^^
KelvinAndHubbles: ahh, only other thing I do is change the variable name of the scanner to one char instead of two
KelvinAndHubbles: you can also replace the interface with class to shorten it more, unless your going for an interface
GrekMaR: using interface is actually shorter cause else main class needs to be public to compile :)
GrekMaR: but yes var name of scanner
KelvinAndHubbles: ahh, wow thanks shortening my golf codes :D
GrekMaR: haha cheers,
algeo: promoted to bronze :)
algeo: if i play invalid move i lost points ?
MoMaT: you loose the game.
algeo: :o i got 20 point but now it is a dash -
itzluku: https://www.codingame.com/replay/549221278
itzluku: xDDDD
algeo: :D
n4ou3r: xD
algeo: 10 / 3
algeo: that 3
itzluku: true
itzluku: rematch!
itzluku: :D
algeo: :)
cegprakash: anyone doing topcoder SRM?
algeo: i need some seach algorithm for bronze :\
KelvinAndHubbles: GrekMaR you might already know this one too, but change your System.out.println to System.out.print cuts off 2 characters per print
GrekMaR: KelvinAndHubbles ty actualy didn't think about that one :)
UndercoverToad: nope ceg. but codejam next week
AntiSquid: this seeding business is annoying @_@
itzluku: most games i lose have like a 10pt diff
algeo: :c
itzluku: -.-
BenjaminUrquhart: Welp good luck to people, came on just to check out this contest and I don't really find it that interesting
itzluku: euler got a weird strat
itzluku: spamm t3 trees on richness 1 cells
itzluku: and it works
itzluku: xD
UndercoverToad: i don't include richness in my scoring yet :D
itzluku: xD
itzluku: #?
algeo: when it is good to use seed ? when we have 1 tree left
itzluku: ifu want more trees ?:D
algeo: xd
UndercoverToad: when the seed is free (no other seed of yours on the map) is already a good time
itzluku: more trees more suns more points
jacek: is fluttershy a tree
DevLorenzo: Hi have a question with the Defibrillators small game
algeo: yes please
DevLorenzo: I have a code that works for the first and last example, but not second and third
DevLorenzo: I don't know why
algeo: share code :p
DevLorenzo: here the code: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/ae804f0b-9c16-4c58-9120-9be5ac27cc08
UndercoverToad: do you convert from degree to raidans?
algeo: oh that maybe it is wrong
UndercoverToad: would be a classic, a lot of users get the wrong
DevLorenzo: Thx
DevLorenzo: i try
Smelty: does a land lose fertility after you complete a tree on it
UndercoverToad: no
Smelty: ok
DevLorenzo: So I should convert to user longitude
and latitude in radian?
UndercoverToad: yes, sin and cos expect radians
Smelty: thanks btw
Rag: maybe its better to use t1 cells since shadow blocks you less overall? going for t3 cells is risky i guess
itzluku: u will get less gold in the early game
Smelty: meh my strat is to use outside for sun and inside for nutrient
itzluku: its a tradeoff
UndercoverToad: that makes it easier for the opponent to shadow you
itzluku: might be worth to go for a hybrid
itzluku: :)
itzluku: depends on the day
Smelty: hmmm\
Smelty: game gets more and more strategic the more you look at it
DevLorenzo: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/16ae4b40-090c-4bdf-a1b5-05fcd7fc9e4e
DevLorenzo: Continue to have an error. I have a wrong output with second and third.
Smelty: weird.
DevLorenzo: Other ideas?
algeo: wrong substring
algeo: spitting is wrong i think
Smelty: hm
algeo: ;; is not in everything
DevLorenzo: Sorry for the inconvenience but I've been there for like 1h
itzluku: won against euler, rank 69 is mine :D
Smelty: lol
Smelty: my goal is 420, no way im making it there
itzluku: u got this
itzluku: just weight neighbors for your seed spots
itzluku: if u can make a knight structure u are good to go
VizGhar: where is dbd r?
Smelty: whaaaT
Smelty: mr wonton told me to go knight
Smelty: but it crashed :(
itzluku: order possible seed options by nr of opponents and nr of own trees surrounding that spot, its important to have as little aligning team trees as possible
itzluku: imo
Smelty: wow
dbdr: VizGhar in submit...
VizGhar: :P
VizGhar: I simply want to see someone from top 50 implementing their solution... I simply can't take it easy
VizGhar: (don't know what incremental steps mean)
dbdr: there are some streams
dbdr: recurse did one for locam for instance
jrke: will recurse again do one submit legend?
VizGhar: Have to carefully look at it :) I mean... i'll most probably get to top 500 but can't see any way further
VizGhar: will recurse come? :)
UndercoverToad: DevLorenzo your input parsing has problems
jrke: he came last time when legend opened and he made legend with just one submit from wood
itzluku: top80 73% :o
UndercoverToad: you check for ";;" but sometimes there is a text between these two ;
DevLorenzo: Thank, I already solved thanks to Algeo
UndercoverToad: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
dbdr: what's up UndercoverToad?
UndercoverToad: you are up
UndercoverToad: i'm down around 50
VizGhar: noice
itzluku: i cant find u UndercoverToad :o
UndercoverToad: because that's an alt account
dbdr: he's undercover though
UndercoverToad: try to guess my real one
jrke: dbdr did you applied any algo or just heuristic?
UndercoverToad: sometimes i'm not sure if it's irony or not
itzluku: i mean there is no Toad
dbdr: beam search jrke
VizGhar: dbdr what depth can you reach?
dbdr: :zipper_mouth:
jrke: :grimacing:
VizGhar: well... i tried
VizGhar: I tried to befriend him and look... now I have to think myself
VizGhar: and it hurts
dbdr: I think, it was all strategy!
dbdr: *I see
struct: My nth_element was bugged
struct: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
VizGhar: 666th
ZarthaxX: struct nOOOOO
struct: I had no idea that the second param was pointing to first param
struct: or w/e it is
struct: its confusing
ZarthaxX: what
struct: I had
nth_element(&pool[start], &pool[start] + BEAM_WIDTH - 1, &pool[start + total], [&](const GameState& a, const GameState& b) {
return a.evaluation > b.evaluation;
});
ZarthaxX: second param is number of elements
struct: nth_element(&pool[start], &pool[0] + BEAM_WIDTH - 1, &pool[start + total], [&](const GameState& a, const GameState& b) {
return a.evaluation > b.evaluation;
});
ZarthaxX: i dont get your code
struct: correct should be the 2nd
DomiKo: template< class RandomIt >
constexpr void nth_element( RandomIt first, RandomIt nth, RandomIt last );
DomiKo: https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/algorithm/nth_element
DomiKo:
ZarthaxX second param isn't number of elements
struct: yeah domiko but I had no idea it needed to start at [0]
struct: for w/e reason
ZarthaxX: DomiKo but i saw examples where it was
ZarthaxX: mmhmm
ZarthaxX: https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/stdnth_element-in-cpp/
ZarthaxX: first example shows trhat
jrke: "Players that are asleep do not receive input." - does this means that if you waited then you will get input in next day?
DomiKo: jrke yes
DomiKo: ZarthaxX no?
VizGhar: One main problem that I have with my beam is, that I have to sort it every time beam size is exceeded (allways)
Sort is really slow
ZarthaxX: no? lol
VizGhar: is there any way to surpass this?
AntiSquid: that's the fog of war they snuck in jrke
VizGhar: you guys implementing some weighted trees?
struct: use nth_element VizGhar
ZarthaxX: for first code he put the second arg as an iterator to the fifth element
ZarthaxX: and then the sort put the first 5
VizGhar: nth_element... hmm ill try to google a bit
ZarthaxX: VizGhar its a partial sort
ZarthaxX: so you get the first k elements sorted
UndercoverToad: https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/algorithm/nth_element
ZarthaxX: the first k elements
RoboStac: yeah, but it's a iterator to the fifth element, not the number of elements. Passing 5 there would be really bad
ZarthaxX: i know
ZarthaxX: but i meant iterator to the fifth lol
DomiKo: so you get the first k elements sorted
DomiKo: noooo
ZarthaxX: isnt the second parameter the one that determines how many
RoboStac: yeah
DomiKo: don't troll people ZarthaxX
DomiKo: first part won't be sorted
MSmits: do they get sorted? I thought they just got put into any order above the nth element?
ZarthaxX: im not trolling
DomiKo: MSmits you are right
ZarthaxX: im just experessing wrong
ZarthaxX: lol
struct: So which one is correct?
struct: https://tech.io/snippet/bFOFBbu
DaNinja: is it the same as partial_sort()?
ZarthaxX: whatever
struct: no DaNinja
UndercoverToad: i'm memorize that what i don't want to admit that i was wrong. "I'm just expressing wrong" :)
MSmits: I am wondering if i am using this correctly:
MSmits: std::nth_element(parents, parents + parentCount - 1, parents + BEAM_WIDTH, [](GS const& a, GS const& b) -> bool{ return a.eval > b.eval;});
\
ZarthaxX: lol toad
MSmits: some how i needed to do -1 on the parent count in the second param
struct: MSmits my problem is that on nth if i start on array[0]
struct: it still works
struct: Thats why im confused
struct: like the second param
MSmits: in my example, parents is an array too
MSmits: and &parents[0] is the same as parents
AntiSquid: UndercoverToad, more often used: "i think there's a misunderstanding / there's seems to be some misunderstanding / miscomunication"
struct: ah I see
MSmits: parnents + parentcount -1 is basically &parents[last index]
VizGhar: hmm so if I use that nth_element I'll get my nth_element in center and smaller on one size, larger on another right?
DomiKo: yes
MSmits: yeah VizGhar
ZarthaxX: oh so like the quicksort thing
ZarthaxX: sorry D:
VizGhar: this should work... Ok guys... just small steps... concentrate and breathe :D I'll make some stupid thing again
itzluku: release the kraken
MSmits: one iteration of quicksort, except instead of knowing the value of the pivot element, you know the position where you want the pivot element to be
ZarthaxX: right
AntiSquid: itzluku now that you mention it, where is kalamariking ? guess he is a bloody alt afterall @_@
VizGhar: Oh... thanks MSmits, now i know exactly what it's doing
MSmits: np, I still wondering if i am not off by 1 in my use though
struct: Maybe ill change my beam search, there is no use in storing all states
AntiSquid: oh he is on the leaderboard, nvm then
MSmits: struct nah, dont store all states
AntiSquid: gotta catch'em all
MSmits: just the last level and whatever action it started with, for each state
MSmits: you dont need to reproduce the entire path taken
struct: I save the action in the state
DomiKo: you can save id of action
MSmits: i only save the first actuon taken in the state
VizGhar: go MCTS what could possibly go wrong
dbdr: the path can be useful for debugging though :)
struct: yeah, I meant saved id in the state
DomiKo: dbdr true
MSmits: dbdr yeah and i guess i have plenty of room to actually save them
AntiSquid: VizGhar early silver promotion?
MSmits: btw, i am starting to think you need multiple algo's here
MSmits: bs is great for start
MSmits: but becomes less useful when shadows become more important
MSmits: (opponent shadows)
jrke: for what depth MS BS
AntiSquid: people here love BS ?
MSmits: i dont know what depth is best
solistice: guess I'm back for another challenge!
MSmits: it's just a number, i can set it to play till end of game if i want to
MSmits: BS has no depth limits
AntiSquid: wb solistice
solistice: thx!
solistice: been a while, trying to reach legend for once :D
jrke: i am a bad optimizer so can't get a lot of nodes...
solistice: if I find the time
MSmits: you dont need a lot
MSmits: just have to be smart about pruning and such
[0_o]Surya: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/c020da94-1439-4574-8d05-ba45c4add4c5
solistice: @AntiSquid I remember there being plugins for codingame previously, to link with IDE and stuff.. Does that still exist?
AntiSquid: yes somewhere
AntiSquid: search forums for tools
solistice: cool cool, will do! :)
MSmits: I have a 20 depth bs that only takes 5 ms... it's jus tbad because of bad eval and pruning, optimization doesnt help and more beam width doesnt either
VizGhar: click settings in CG IDE solistice
VizGhar: at the bottom
jrke: 20 in 5ms thats very gr8
VizGhar: 20depth in 5ms? wtf? :D all bitwise operations and crazy pruning?
Scarfield: beam width of 1? :p
MSmits: some pruning yeah
VizGhar: yeah... such a beamsearch is called hillclimb Scarfield
VizGhar: (not exactly, but still...)
MSmits: also very optimized i guess, but my point was that focusing on optimization is not a winning strategy here
MSmits: and I didnt actually. This was just the easiest way for me to code it
Scarfield: improved eval might change that though(?)
MSmits: yeah maybe, but i watched a couple games from the top 10, saw what they did, translated it to pruning and went from rank 1800 to rank 300-400
jrke: damn MS then if you coded hardly and optimized you will be doctor strange who saw all possible outcomes in infinity war
MSmits: lol, and only 1 that is a win, and it's outside of the beam... too bad :P
VizGhar: he's messing with us. come boys. we go home
MSmits: mmh that's lucky, won first 10 games on new submit :)
VizGhar: When you are talking about pruning. I understand it as removing nodes similar to another nodes (so exact copies but different path)
MSmits: no, not in this case VizGhar
VizGhar: so you are pruning before computation = dont seed from 2 trees
VizGhar: on same place
MSmits: pruning would be, for example: Not considering dropping a seed when there's already one. Or not growing another size 2 tree when you already have a bunch
VizGhar: or sth like that
MSmits: well i guess it's like compression, you have lossy compression and lossless compression
MSmits: pruning that removes branches that are provably bad or redundant is lossless
MSmits: but I was talking about lossy pruning
MSmits: removing branches that are very likely bad, but not 100%
jrke: pruning can be COMPLETING only after D days
VizGhar: ah... gotcha
MSmits: right good one jrke
MSmits: pretty sure most players have a rule like that
MSmits: or it's more fluid, like it depends on the nutrients, the number of trees they already have etc.
VizGhar: yeah... So what I'm doing currently is some early game hardcode (first 2-5 turns) then running simulation (single round=single depth) and all that pruning is done in my eval function... that is for sure slow
AntiSquid: number of states explodes with seeds, what makes seed placement bad @_@
VizGhar: I was too happy seeing that my simulation throws exactly the same "possible steps" as i was receiving in input
struct: maybe I can add that pruning
struct: Chuck to check how it changes
davi_bart: Probably is written in the text but I can't find it, are my shadows spooky also for my trees?
struct: just*
MSmits: davi_bart yeah
davi_bart: ok thanks
MSmits: you can shade your own trees
VizGhar: just look at some replays davi_bart you will see it immediately
MSmits: don't :poop: where you eat. Don't shade, where you tree
jrke: this game needs to have an good opponent interference + look at large depth
VizGhar: oh sheat that was neat
Murat_Eroglu: we cant see segmentation faults on game information screen, can we?
AntiSquid: maybe i should drop everything when i have too many states?
ClosetAI: I didn't realize at first that your own trees could shadow your other trees
VizGhar: and now you are a bit smarter go go Closet
jrke: finally i coded the game engine
jrke: but not if its bug free
jrke: not sure*
jrke: will be discovered as i will see the replays after applying the sim
ClosetAI: This engine is probably the easiest I had to code so far
VizGhar: painful right jrke? MSmits told me it's simple
Scarfield: i forgot about shadows not affecting smaller trees, luckily chat mentioned it
VizGhar: i cried :D
jacek: well he has experience with hex games
ClosetAI: Just hardcode the stuff that you get in input
jrke: he is a good, expierenced CS teacher so easy for him
algeo: i lost my code :|
algeo: oh it is there another tab
VizGhar: :D
algeo: :D
VizGhar: if you submit it or at least play, it will be stored
algeo: oh ok
jrke: happened once with me few months ago i lost my all code and i had to rewrite that whole 430 lines :(
Wontonimo: algeo you can use the "History" navigation on the left to see all your previous commits
MSmits: wait... the sim is relatively simple compared to other games. I don't mean coding a sim in general is simple
algeo: ok tnx
jrke: we are also talking for this game MS
VizGhar: we were talking about this game
MSmits: yeah i know
MSmits: compared to other games, i think this game has a simple sim
Wontonimo: :wave: MSmits
jrke: its easy to code if you have full 100% concentration + every minute rule in your mind
MSmits: yeah
MSmits: hi Wontonimo
Wontonimo: 2 words will help greatly in writing your sim : unit tests
MSmits: yeah, better than my method, which is staring at the same code for hours until you see the bug
jrke: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/b94fcb86-ae4b-4870-9728-d8bec12bc277
Scarfield: xD
Wontonimo: :D
MSmits: i did unit test action generations
MSmits: never unit tested the sim states
MSmits: probably should get on that
jrke: wait you mean testing every node you get in sim?
Wontonimo: another method of validating your sim is to use the previous board state and your and opponents actions and make sure it matches the new state every round, and DIE with a big warning when it does
RoboStac: it's really awkward to do that here though Wontonimo as they can have multiple turns when you wait
MerryMentat: That approach is tricky because they don't give your opponent's moves.
MSmits: also, you dont get your opponent action as input
MSmits: MerryMentat beat me to it
MerryMentat: But you can still do it
Wontonimo: oh, right ... well you can do that up to and including your wait. first action of new round is reset
RoboStac: yeah, but you just generate all possible moves and test each of them to see if it matches new state
MSmits: did you do that RoboStac?
RoboStac: not here
MerryMentat: I just built something that parses the game replay and replays it into my simulator
jacek: you do that only in begining of contest to see if youe sim is alright
MerryMentat: Because the game replay gives the opponent's moves.
RoboStac: but I quite often have in the past
MSmits: I think I am going to do what RoboStac suggests
MerryMentat: You have to debug print out everything the game gives you, though.
Wontonimo: yeah, you are all correct about it being hard for this particular game. good point
MerryMentat: Then you've got enough info to do it.
RoboStac: most of my mcts games do it because it's helpful for mcts tree reuse too
Westicles: does beam stack search ever apply to bot problems?
jacek: btw. i found my another bug - i written each tre gives 1 sun point. but it gives tree.size points :F
jrke: i will start from sim then i will change my algo after silver opening
MSmits: Basically, just take the current state, generate all your opponent actions. Select an action of your own, make a list of all resulting game states from all combinations of your move and the opponents moves and compare them all with the input state of next turn
Wontonimo: woot! I found another if/else to improve my bot.
MSmits: just dont do it when your action is wait
RoboStac: yeah
RoboStac: sounds like it should work
icecream17: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/549323860 my bot spams throw at a cell (move 65)
MSmits: will do that then, thanks again RoboStac, great suggestion
jacek: another approach - make muzero and screw all the rules. who nees rules anyway
RoboStac: people without lots of memory / code space
jrke: gn gtg want to have some sleep
RoboStac: have you seen the input formats in muzero?!
Wontonimo: haha icecream17 ... that's fun
Wontonimo: gn jrke
Wontonimo: wow, rank stabilization just raised me from 73 up to 67. First i've seen my rank go up from stabilization.
jacek: so stable
Wontonimo: lol
MerryMentat: What is stabilization?
Wontonimo: after your last battle, the scoring alters your rank one last time
MerryMentat: Oh - I didn't realize there was a "last battle" - I'd assumed that it just kept having you battle over and over again
jacek: when you lead in points for most of the game... https://www.codingame.com/replay/549331813
Wontonimo: MerryMentat when you click "Test in Arena" your bot does about 96 battles of you vs others. When others submit their bot, your bot may be one of their "others". That's it.
Wontonimo: the stabilization of your score happens after your 96 battles that you triggered with the "test in arena"
MerryMentat: Ah!
MerryMentat: 96 is a lot!
MerryMentat: I didn't know that's how it works
jacek: still more than community game :unamused:
MSmits: doesn't really matter at this stage in the contest anyways
Wontonimo: jacek that's a nice replay. reminds me i havent addressed that problem happening accidentily in my bot
struct: I think its time to turn on all the pcs in the house to bench
UndercoverToad: how many do you have?
jacek: thats why contests should be in winter
struct: 5
MSmits: he's even going to test his bot on his roomba
struct: Can smart fridges run it?
MSmits: try it
MSmits: maybe it will grow branches
Wontonimo: see if you can run it on your internet root-er
Wontonimo: was that too "dad" of me?
MSmits: yeah, but it's ok :)
jacek: ok fixing the bug yielded another 500 ranks up
Wontonimo: :tada:
itzluku: https://www.codingame.com/replay/549339967
itzluku: not even close
Thiesjoo: Hmmm there is no way to see where your code is timed out?
struct: you need to download the replay
MSmits: just to be clear, I never did that part. Some players here are proficient with downloading replays and automatically taking information from it
MSmits: euler showed me some of that with python, but I suck at this
Astrobytes: Am I the only one that finds this game completely unexciting?
jacek: !!!!
jacek: heresy
CGGCoder: Nope
jacek: how hex board game can be unexciting?
MSmits: mmh it's ok in that regard for me, i just find it frustrating that my usual tricks dont give me a better ranking so far :)
CGGCoder: It's complicated
Astrobytes: I just find it completely boring.
avdg: if reading is boring, it can be a factor
Astrobytes: Eh?
MSmits: well it's trees, they dont move
JBM: hexagons? i barely noticed
MSmits: same, the fact that it's hex doesnt matter
avdg: otherwise its about getting excitement about maximalisation
CGGCoder: How do you make it so that when you do all of your actions and a new day arrives, the 'for' statement restarts?
JBM: they give each cell's neighbors, you don't have to do any crazy hex math if you don't want to
Astrobytes: I told myself I would finish my sim today, but I only added a few lines. I cannot motivate myself.
Wontonimo: we need explosions for Astrobytes
struct: Should have played the tutorial
avdg: don't think too hard
Wontonimo: Astrobytes i haven't even started on my sim
Wontonimo: not even 1 line
CGGCoder: Wait what?
CGGCoder: You guys are making sims?
MSmits: Astrobytes i think it's because you did not pick this game. When you're playing on CG you currently have 30-40 games to pick from, so you're spoiled like that. Now you're forced to play the one they picked
Astrobytes: Well, that's not the reason I don't like it MSmits
avdg: I don't have a sim, though I'm trying to add functions to make it possible 1 by 1
jacek: column E is after fixing the bug. i think there are might still bugs https://i.imgur.com/TX7wGBW.png
avdg: but honestly, it's still far off
MSmits: true Astrobytes, but I remember when all these shiny boardgames werent on here, i enjoyed these contests more back then
Wontonimo: CGGCoder yeah, if you want to do search you need a good sim. Search is very powerful AI
Astrobytes: This one reminds me of the last one, but less interesting.
CGGCoder: ...
CGGCoder: ok?
MSmits: to me it's more interesting that the last one, but not more interesting than the boardgames :)
avdg: mine can't calculate the next state yet
Astrobytes: Just my opinion obviously ;)
LDami: Hey guys ! how are you ? :)
Wontonimo: so i found UTTT really interesting because it was so small in scope that it was all about maxing stuff out. This one is fairly close, so the maxing stuff is something i'm looking forward to
CGGCoder: I'm fine.
MSmits: yeah it's very much personal preference
CGGCoder: How do you make a for loop restart when a new day comes?
MSmits: i have no idea what that means CGGCoder
Astrobytes: Hm?
avdg: put a for loop in a for loop?
jacek: huh
LDami: I've just a little question for you ! How do you would name a variable containing the number of barracks ? "nbrOfBarracks" or "nbrBarracks", or something else ?
LDami: would you name *
Astrobytes: Call it TheNumberOfBarracksIHave if you like
jacek: numOfBarracks
CGGCoder: nbrBarracks
Astrobytes: It's your code
CGGCoder: I prefer shorter
Wontonimo: i like the variable name bob. go with that. or bobsNbrOfBracks
JBM: resultOfApplyingABarrackFactoryCounterBean
jacek: or dupa
RoboStac: I'd probably call it n and then hate myself about 5 minutes later
Astrobytes: RoboStac :rofl:
Astrobytes: JBM: Classy!
JBM: in a bad way ^^'
LDami: Astrobytes: I know but it's interresting to know how other people do :)
MSmits: why Bean JBM?
JBM: i dunno
JBM: it's a java thing i ever understood
JBM: *never
mororo250: Are there any way to save info into a file?
MSmits: oh beans from the island of java?
JBM: they have "beans"
LDami: Thanks for answers :)
MSmits: dont they produce beans over there
JBM: maybe they plant them
JBM: well, java beans at least
MSmits: yeah
Astrobytes: LDami: well, I'd probably do bCnt or something
CGGCoder: ...
MSmits: there you go, mystery solved
Astrobytes: Coffee - Java - Beans
JBM: thank you so much
Astrobytes: :P
Wontonimo: the randomness of this conversation reminds me of the NPC conversation in Simon the Sorcerer
CGGCoder: True
MSmits: it seems random
MSmits: but has a seed
JBM: until you find its true meaning
Astrobytes: It's multithreaded.
jacek: Automaton2000 is it random?
JBM: hmm lacks capitals
Automaton2000: because i was doing a clash
JBM: Its True Meaning
Westicles: All these rules. If you were assigned this for work you'd try to wriggle out of it
CGGCoder: This is getting out of hand
Smelk: Hello!
JBM: sowing usually does
Wontonimo: true Westicles , I'd talk with the BAs and push back
HungryBurger: A new challengers has appeared.
HungryBurger: Hello Smelk.
CGGCoder: Hello, don't mind the others
MSmits: BA's ? Battleaxes?
Smelk: Why can't I fight against my friend's IA, although we're both in Bronze league? I can't find him in the list.
JBM: search better
Astrobytes: Yes MSmits. Battleaxes.
CGGCoder: Rank?
RoboStac: the list only shows the top 1000 as there were issues when leagues got too big
MSmits: :)
CGGCoder: I guess that makes sense
Wontonimo: Business Analysts , but BattleAxes would be better
JBM: does it help to follow him?
Smelk: Oh, I thought using the Search field would search further than the top 1000
Smelk: I'm following him
Astrobytes: Battle Analysts > both
Wontonimo: Smelk you can use the search
MSmits: business analyst seems like a job that would have a high suicide rate
Wontonimo: hahhahahahahaa
CGGCoder: I guess. yeh
Astrobytes: lmao
Wontonimo: :d
MSmits: i cant imagine a more boring job
CGGCoder: Oh, so that's why they are always recruiting every week.
MSmits: well maybe i can, if i try, but i dont want to
CGGCoder: Ah yes, some peace finally
MSmits: ok i need to get on this sim verification thingy robo suggested
Wontonimo: luckily in my current contract the BA I work with is actually great. First time.
CGGCoder: Oh nevermind
avdg: glad the best bots aren't too good yet
CGGCoder: I'm currently trying to copy the bots with more or less a better strategy
avdg: quite easy yet to take over land of a top ai for now
Wontonimo: wait till legend opens
CGGCoder: Oh hell no
avdg: I will have less time this contest
avdg: though there are some extra holidays end of next week
CGGCoder: I'm currently imagining the IA's code being mostly calculations and looking into the future
CGGCoder: Like probability, and stuff
avdg: still 3 japanese in top 6
Wontonimo: CGGCoder have you ever written code to do something like mini-max ?
CGGCoder: No idea what that is
Wontonimo: oh, there are some really cool resources here on it
avdg: never wrote a mini max tree
avdg: got a bit closer to the math
Wontonimo: hmm ... can anyone suggest a link to a CG resource on it?
avdg: but I didn't pass the stage yet where I can say, I know it
jacek: math, not even once
avdg: you still compare :P
Wontonimo: Here is a practice exercise https://www.codingame.com/training/medium/minimax-exercise
Astrobytes: https://homepages.cwi.nl/~paulk/theses/Carolus.pdf
CGGCoder: like this?
CGGCoder: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/620d26ff-5551-4ab3-9489-c62f79eab98e
Astrobytes: Chess programming wiki also
Wontonimo: and here is a great video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STjW3eH0Cik
Astrobytes: There are some nice visualisations out there if you search too
CGGCoder: god i need to learn a lot more
Astrobytes: interactive trees
Astrobytes: *game trees
Astrobytes: for plain minimax + alpha beta pruning
jacek: game if about trees, why not use search tree algos
CGGCoder: I want to go to computer science classes but I'm not even at the grade to pass there
Astrobytes: Are you actually doing this contest jacek?
jacek: eeyup
Astrobytes: Impossibru
jacek: slowly but i think maybe ill get to silver this time
Astrobytes: Then I must do something at least.
CGGCoder: Imma look at the links, need to inform myself
Astrobytes: Also this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STjW3eH0Cik
Astrobytes: And the Sebastian Lague one too if you like posh accents
Wontonimo: ^ yeah, that's a really good one
ddreams: score of suns / 3 rounds up?
VizGhar: down
Wontonimo: that's called trunc where i come from
ddreams: right, yep
VizGhar: Players gain an extra 1 point for every 3 sun points they have at the end of the game.
ddreams: that's what I thought and programmed, but just misread the score in this game
VizGhar: ^from statement^
LightDarkness: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/a7e3fa01-7979-4b1b-b05c-3c0fdbf8a052
jacek: LightDarkness does pow returns float?
VizGhar: LightDarkness maybe you printed out decimals?
jacek: then the printing would be decimal
Astrobytes: ^
VizGhar: 2**3 -> 8.00 or something like that...
jacek: 0.8e2?
VizGhar: even better :)
VizGhar: LightDarkness say "thank you" :D
LightDarkness: lol
LightDarkness: i was checking, but no, it should be decimal
LightDarkness: and pow returns decimal
jacek: so it will print decimal with likely scientific notation or .
ddreams: missing return statement causes warning?
ddreams: not sure what subtracts points there
algeo: if we can beat boss in this play my code case can we get silver :p
LightDarkness: ermm do you program in c++?
if so, what should i use instead of pow?
i mean i do a lot of problems in codeforces with c++ never faced a problem with pow
Astrobytes: Look the clash up here:
https://eulerschezahl.herokuapp.com/codingame/puzzles/
jacek: LightDarkness (long long)pow()?
jacek: mostly no one uses c/c++ is clashes. it is mostlypython, ruby or js
LightDarkness: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/41d0bbfb-46a5-4951-9f59-48d9ecaceaa2
LightDarkness: why can't you write a code in this chat? :P
jacek: spoiler alert
LightDarkness: aha
VizGhar: LightDarkness too many newlines :) jacek is trolling sometimes
LightDarkness: I think it's fine, so just to make sure..
"score" in clash of code - reversed round is only about how many test cases are correct
VizGhar: oh jacek spoiler alert was about pyhton/ruby/js ... sry
VizGhar: I should not ping you that much right?
Astrobytes: pinging jacek is fine isn't it
Astrobytes: jacek
LightDarkness: lol, ok final newby question : D
how to you mention someone in this chat?
LightDarkness: @VizGhar
Astrobytes: Just type their name
Astrobytes: No @ required
VizGhar: Or start typing his name and press tab
LightDarkness: Astrobytes like this?
VizGhar: his/her
ddreams: yes LightDarkness
Astrobytes: Yes LightDarkness
LightDarkness: ah ok
MounirEnmeiRyuu: Hey dudes,
A trick to win the "Shortest" #clash_of_code, in Python, convert your code to utf-16, it will reduce the number of chars of the original code by half.
Finally we can execute the utf-16 binary using:
exec(bytes(code_in_u16 ,'U16')
VizGhar: He has many names
LightDarkness: thank you do much guys
LightDarkness: so*
jacek: mhm
VizGhar: cheater... kick him :D
LightDarkness: ++
JSboss: Hi guys, one question - using JS for Clash is sometimes a pain because variables are initialized using "const" rather than "let" or "var" and so are immutable, so in fastest mode the init tags need to be changed or removed in order to change the var. Any way the default could be changed to "let" or "var" ?
JSboss: Well, in all modes, but in fastest mode it wastes time needing to do that
VizGhar: no JSboss... you have to deal with it
Westicles: You mean like is there a button somewhere that will do that for you?
Counterbalance: I don't think you even need to use var/let/const at all; they'll just be globa variables
VizGhar: maybe you can ask in forum for some plugin, that will translate stub for you :)
Counterbalance: control-H in the editor allows you to search/replace
itzluku: https://www.codingame.com/replay/549381756
JSboss: I am wondering why "Const" is the default (pre-printed) text used for inputs, i.e. why it's necessary to manually change it
JSboss: and just wondered if there is some possibility that this default could be changed to reduce the time disadvantage
UndercoverToad: sounds unlikely to me that they will change it (clash of code is not the only thing on this website) but feel free to request a change on the forum
jacek: "clash of code is not the only thing on this website" w00t?
JSboss: OK, I will do so, that tag has a specific use case and shouldnt be a default, whether CoC or other interface
JSboss: Thanks
jacek: well at least its 95%
JSboss: ^^
UndercoverToad: if they would care about 95% they would allow to select an IDE opponent below top1000
Xenoid: At a past job where I used JS, variables were typically declared with const, because the philosophy was that mutating variables was a horrible thing that should never ever ever be done
Xenoid: YMMV
Counterbalance: constant variables?? :D
Xenoid: Or just "constants," if you prefer. To me variable doesn't necessarily mean it has to vary, just that it's a placeholder that can hold a value that's specified at runtime
JSboss: variable = 'can be varied'
JSboss: It makes sense in that application, where mutating variables is categorically taboo, but that's not the case on this platform I would say
UndercoverToad: constant variable, thus a constable?
UndercoverToad: oh wait :cop:
JSboss: :rotating_light:
Westicles: you get rules like that when you are writing code together with a bunch of people you think are morons
Xenoid: I agree it's not a great idea to have const be the default for CoC, because it makes it harder to code stuff quickly
UndercoverToad: I still have nightmares from this https://github.com/louthy/language-ext
Xenoid: Seems to me that if someone wants to use a functional language, then they should use a functional language, not try to turn C# into one
SirLoxley: My bot is rank ~ 400 ... let's assume I slack for the rest of the competition, how likely is it to make gold?
Counterbalance: 1%?
UndercoverToad: exactly my feeling about that library
UndercoverToad: i say 5% gold chance
fvla: Imagine getting to legend with functional programming
Xenoid: Challenge accepted? But not for this contest, we're too far in
fvla: Even better, imagine getting to legend with functional programming *in C#*
Counterbalance: you're likely to get to silver if you stay in top 800 or so, but gold is top 150 or so (based on the fall challenge)
UndercoverToad: that few? :o
I should write it down one day
UndercoverToad: I remember legend is about 10-15 on opening
jacek: AutomatonNN there?
SirLoxley: arf.
ShannonNorris97: I'm not sure if this is okay to ask or if anyone will want to answer since it's a competition, but are there any particular algorithms that you'd recommend to do well in the current contest?
jacek: most likely beam search
UndercoverToad: dbd r confirmed using a beam search
ShannonNorris97: Ooh I've never heard of that - I'll look into it. Cheers guys
jacek: i havent use it yet, mine is flat monte carlo with eval
Counterbalance: now i can finally put those 20 threads to good use
Marchete: I don't know, beam search seems to ignore enemies too much
AntiSquid: the words beam search were spammed in chat all day, maybe it works
Westicles: BULB
Marchete: but if top players say it, then it's true
JBM: if it's true, it doesn't mean it's the major part of their strat
Marchete: or beam search*
Marchete: *terms apply
jacek: or they say its beam search so we waste time on that while they use something else
jacek: thats some meta isnt it
Marchete: that's a new low :D
itzluku: LETS GOOOOOOOOOOO
itzluku: won against #1
itzluku: https://www.codingame.com/replay/549426224
DomiKo: close one
DomiKo: gz
algeo: well done
Recovery_disaster: love the fact, that Oioi is using Python3 :)
Even if I dont even know how to be in first place with it
itzluku: pushed my new version to the arena
itzluku: lets see :O
jthemphill: what makes beam search better than MCTS with a low exploration factor?
itzluku: whats the win/lose ratio for top10 bots ?
k4ng0u: itzluku it depends against who :p
You can see the stats on their last matches here http://cgstats.magusgeek.com/app/spring-challenge-2021/Oioi
itzluku: dude 200-100 players are way harder than top100
struct: unlikely
Queuebee: would it be viable to give minimax a timelimit instead of a depth? or would the calls to time be inefficient?
ahkoh: how to get into silver league?
itzluku: wait 2 days
Marchete: minimax with timelimit it's usually iterative deepening
jthemphill: @Queuebee it is efficient to call a timer, but you'll want to make sure your minimax is not depth-first
Marchete: do some depth, then if you have free time try a higher depth
jthemphill: ^
Astrobytes: ^
itzluku: ^
jthemphill: ^^
Queuebee: Okay well good to know. for whenever I ever manage to implement it ^^
Astrobytes: And search the best move from depth-1 first to save more time and increase depth
algeo: /|\
Queuebee: do you mean, keep continuing that branch in the next turns? instead of restarting each turn?
Marchete: no
Marchete: iterative deepening
Marchete: imo don't reinvent the wheel
jthemphill: @Queuebee so you start by completing a minimax with ply 2
Marchete: check google
jthemphill: then you check timer and see if you need to return the best move
Astrobytes: No, restart, but try that best move first, that you found on the previous depth
itzluku: imagine having the same score every 3d game and losing to 1 or 2 extra trees
jthemphill: then you deepen to minimax with ply 4, but you only look at the best moves that the ply-2 search returned
jacek: how often draws occur? in my local testing they never occurred :thinking:
Queuebee: golly
Queuebee: Okay thanks everyone I'll have to read up onn uhh everything. I really thought I was on the right track with minimax :')
jthemphill: glhf!
Astrobytes: Hey, it's a fun thing to explore
Numby: So eh... is opponent score not provided in the input? That would be so tedious having to implement keeping track of changes on each turn to calculate opp score ;/
Numby: Actually nvm, I'm blind
ddreams: pretty sure it's impossible to calculate it too
jacek: yes it is
jacek: you get it
Astrobytes: oppScore
Astrobytes: iirc
Astrobytes: ymmv depending on lang
Numby: I think it should be possible to calculate it too since you can check if a tree disappeared between each move but it would be a hassle for sure. Glad it's in the input (just didn't see it earlier)
ddreams: hmm.. yeah, actually it is possible
ddreams: I was thinking you could seed, grow and complete after the opponent waited, but the tree becomes dormant
ddreams: you can complete and seed again, but that's trackable
GangstaKGK: sa
MerryMentat: How many people typically get into Legend, out of curiousity?
Smelty: idk
struct: I think last contest was around 20 when it opened
Smelty: wow
icecream17: i just thought of an optimization: if a player has no trees, and the other player has more points, the other player automatically wins
jacek: :tada:
Wontonimo: 5000 players
CGGCoder: oof
tibithegreat: am I blind or in the normal game graphic there is no place to tell which day it is?
tibithegreat: the debug mode looks kinda ugly and the game information is also a bit annoying to track
Wontonimo: debug mode is the only place i see it
icecream17: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/547822232 lol this wood 2 game
tibithegreat: Wontonimo :(
itzluku: what is the edge default for cell neighbor indices that are outside the 0-36 index grid? i thought its -1 but the defualt is 1 for me...
icecream17: you can always output the day in the message
Wontonimo: ^^ great idea
tibithegreat: it's only visible for one turn tho
tibithegreat: when you wait
itzluku: anyone?
Counterbalance: it's -1
itzluku: :/
Wontonimo: itzluku what kind of data type are you using? unsigned int?
itzluku: python
itzluku: no type
itzluku: XD
Counterbalance: there's no default, it's explicitly given in input
Wontonimo: it's -1 for me in python
Counterbalance: example init data:
Counterbalance: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/5ee612ee-74aa-449e-9bc2-626d3b33e8e3
itzluku: # neigh_0: the index of the neighbouring cell for each direction
itzluku: 404 Not Found
Whatever you were looking for is not here. It's behind you.
Wontonimo: do what Count_balance did itzluku and print out the values you read in
Counterbalance: there's neigh_0 .. neigh_5, one for each neighbour
Wontonimo: using the
print( "debug stuff" , file=sys.stderr, flush=True)
itzluku: ah wait
miszu: good morning children
itzluku: the index is -1
Wontonimo: good morning teacher miszu
jacek: happy caturday
Astrobytes: Catty hapurday jacek
miszu: alright, time to code the solution to get out of wood 1
jacek: hint: print second available move if moves.size > 1
miszu: are you serious? That's all it takes?
iDash: +1
ClockSort: lol
miszu: I was about to use some badass strats to find the optimal tree to grow
Astrobytes: I sorted lexicographically but yes, it's literally a piece of p*** to get out of wood
iDash: It will bring you around:
Bronze League
Rank 2,151 4,339
miszu: some kernel recursion shits
jacek: welp i wouldnt take it seriously before final rules
itzluku: u will need the badass solution later anyway
itzluku: :P
iDash: working on it :)
miszu: my dumbass solution of wood 2 brought my to rank 123/465 in wood 1
Astrobytes: Just account for the added action and you're good to go
CGGCoder: what was your solution?
miszu: for wood 2?
CGGCoder: Yeah
fvla: please help me template metaprogram a spiral index to 2d graph D:
fvla: D :
miszu: chop chop the most rich richness tree
CGGCoder: oh
CGGCoder: same
CGGCoder: lol
fvla: wood 1 you just have to grow and then chop, or some variation
Astrobytes: Why bother with that. They gave us moves.
miszu: I wouldn't dare to chop chop the least rich richness tree. As a businessman I have standards
CGGCoder: For wood 2, I just done all of the commands possible in reverse so the WAIT is at the end.
CGGCoder: I'm currently at wood 1
Astrobytes: fvla: what?
iDash: lol
miszu: funny that first command it imputs is the WAIT command
miszu: so basically, take 2nd command
CGGCoder: Yeah no sense
CGGCoder: I do it reverse
CGGCoder: Most of them are random i guess
fvla: i can't believe you guys cheesing wood leagues using command list, lol
iDash: random geves worse result than secons ot even than last
fvla: i have standards
CGGCoder: Lazy goes a long way tho
Astrobytes: Why not? Wood is pointless. Need Bronze rules/
CGGCoder: yeah
fvla: ig
iDash: preffer grow over seed
miszu: let's do the 2nd move and see if I can best the mighty Ghiboss
fvla: it's still funny how this cheese actually just works
CGGCoder: I'm putting my own code
CGGCoder: So it's more efficient
Saltron: yeet
miszu: CGGCoder with blackjack tables and hookers?
Astrobytes: Quit yeeting
CGGCoder: miszu - What?
miszu: you don't know the meme?
Astrobytes: Blackjack and hookers!
miszu: yeah
CGGCoder: Nope haven't been informed
miszu: ohhh
Astrobytes: Futurama... Bender...
miszu: I must educate you
miszu: lemme find it
Astrobytes: Educate him. I require a beer.
CGGCoder: ok wth
CGGCoder: I just googled it
jacek: meme noob
miszu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e35AQK014tI
CGGCoder: No thx
miszu: wow ghiboss beat me by 1 pt
miszu: with the pick 2nd move strats
miszu: FB AI should hire me
CGGCoder: :regional_indicator_n: :regional_indicator_o: :regional_indicator_g: regional_indicator_o: regional_indicator_d:
CGGCoder: :regional_indicator_o:
CGGCoder: :regional_indicator_d:
miszu: so 3/4 I won vs Ghiboss
CGGCoder: r/softwaregore
CGGCoder: What's your technque again?
CGGCoder: Too lazy to scroll up
miszu: won 9/10 with the might strats
miszu: ok so basically
miszu: the list of all possibles moves, pick the 2nd one
miszu: if there is only 1 move then it's the WAIT move
CGGCoder: ok so just the one after the WAIT
miszu: correct
miszu: make sure you do bound check
CGGCoder: uhm
miszu: everyone knows you cannot forget that :)
CGGCoder: ok
miszu: https://www.codingame.com/replay/549521966
miszu: best him by 1 pt
Astrobytes: sort(moves.begin(), moves.end(), [](const string& a, const string& b){return a[0] < b[0];});
Astrobytes: ^
miszu: wayy to fancy man
MSmits: well my sim check found an error. Was a good idea to fully match opponent actions and sim states
miszu: if numPossiblesMoves <= 1, print wait
else, print 2nd move
CGGCoder: ok wth is this
miszu: yay I will be promoted!
CGGCoder: miszu yeah seems ok
Astrobytes: miszu that got me straight into Bronze
miszu: yeah I will go bronze now
miszu: joining the MLG now
Astrobytes: Other than that, I don't care much for this game
miszu: why not?
miszu: you don't like it?
Astrobytes: I find it quite boring.
jacek: MSmits what was it
Astrobytes: And just like a variation on the last one.
miszu: what I don't like is to code the engine and unit test it for bugs
NinjaDoggy: just code the engine without the unit test then :)
MSmits: i was giving richness bonuses as 1,2,3 , based on the richness. As opposed to 0, 2, 4
miszu: well you are asking for hours of debugging a silly mistake
Astrobytes: Anyway, don't let my opinion stop you, I'll do something at some point
Astrobytes: Nice bug MSmits
NinjaDoggy: nah this game is way more interactive than the last one
MSmits: yeah, i doubt it will change that much though
Astrobytes: NinjaDoggy: *Slightly
NinjaDoggy: it won't be a billion beam searches (that don't take into account of opponent) in legend i don't think
Astrobytes: Beam and Chokudai is the meta rn
jacek: keep in mind if both actions are COMPLETE players receive original nutrients
MSmits: i know
MSmits: another thing to think about is what happens when two players seed same hex
Astrobytes: I just don't like it
Astrobytes: You get your s**T back MSmits
MSmits: Yeah
Astrobytes: Well, both do
MSmits: and still go dormant right?
Astrobytes: Yep
jacek: eeyup
MSmits: which is good, that way you dont get infinite seeding
MSmits: i still remember the push locks in xmas rush
jacek: hmm technically you could
jacek: ah waiit, no
Astrobytes: Hah, yeah MSmits
Astrobytes: no jacek, I don't think a seeding-lock is possible
DaNinja: checking the referee, you dont get a refund
jacek: huh
DaNinja: ah my bad, you do
AntiSquid: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Astrobytes: BadNinja
AntiSquid: can't find the bug, maybe i should just drop it and do something meaningful
DaNinja: damn Java
MSmits: mmh i will need to check sim for sun points as well
MSmits: thats a separate check as both players last actions have to be waits
NinjaDoggy: just wait for a turn where your opponent is dormant
NinjaDoggy: and your action is wait :)
miszu: there is no AI for going to silver league?
MSmits: yeah
MSmits: miszu there will be
MSmits: when silver opens
miszu: ok not available yet
MSmits: a player at rank x is chosen (prolly 500 or so, maybe 800)
MSmits: that player becomes boss
AntiSquid: i have this ... red normal bot vs blue wait bot
depth 20, can go even up to 100 @_@ that thing keeps taking a nap
AntiSquid: https://www.codingame.com/replay/549528395
miszu: imagine the top 500 are all legendary worthy code.... most people will be stuck in bronze
MSmits: do you mean it only considers wait as action and searches to depth 20?
AntiSquid: it considers everything
MSmits: my first beamsearch version would only do wait
MSmits: in my case both the max element and nth element had their sign wrong, picking the worst action
Nerchio: My beamsearch did same :(
struct: wait can cause problems with eval :)
Nerchio: its so disappointing after writing it for 10h or so
struct: specially if you multiply with day
MSmits: I also had a bug where I did * instead of & on a bitop
MSmits: bunch of bugs and every bug caused my bot to prefer wait
MSmits: it's like it was thinking, nope, sht happens when i dont wait
struct: MSmits on beam search am i supposed to also include parent states when selecting the best?
MSmits: why would you do that/
struct: I dont
MSmits: yeah but i mean, why would you consider that even?
MSmits: what makes you think it might be good
MSmits: it's a different depth level
fvla: i just programmed a constexpr function to transform indices to xy coordinates in 2d space lol
struct: true
MSmits: it's like finishing a minimax iteration and then picking the result from the previous iteration that searched less deepo
MSmits: fvla we all need hobbies
fvla: i'm learning metaprogramming so that i don't need ugly switch statements
fvla: to optimize my doce
NinjaDoggy: fvls why do you need x,y?
fvla: *code
MSmits: i dont think i ever had a switch statement in a bot :P
MSmits: if else if else if else if else :P
fvla: because i don't want to calculate distance through an inefficient graph
fvla: oh no
NinjaDoggy: why not precompute distances?
fvla: i am
fvla: through *metaprogramming*
MSmits: i don't use any distances at all
NinjaDoggy: I assume you precompute masks for each distance then
NinjaDoggy: (same as me)
MSmits: i just have a map of reachable seedhexes for every size
fvla: no bitboard just yet
MSmits: and every source hex
fvla: :(
struct: same
NinjaDoggy: bitboards is so much easier than non bit boards honestly
MSmits: if you are used to it, yes
MSmits: if not, it's just gonna give you a headache
struct: im not used to it and found it easier
MSmits: and cause many hard to find bugs
MSmits: if you've done it twice before that counts as being used to it :P
fvla: i'm transforming into bitboards after i get basic coordinates working
struct: I only did it for uttt
NinjaDoggy: co-ordinates is such an ineffecient way to do it :(
NinjaDoggy: both in terms of run time and coding time
MSmits: mmh uttt counts as being used to it too :P
MSmits: considering the time most people spend on a uttt bot
struct: MSmits also do you recomend to have player tree masks or trees[2][4]?
NinjaDoggy: LOL honestly yeh, UTTT is more than enough
MSmits: it's fine, i do it differently though
fvla: but coordinates are a nice abstraction when you learn to program it
MSmits: i have a single trees[4]
MSmits: and a owner
fvla: and they will translate nicely to bitboards
MSmits: (uint64_t)
MSmits: so 5x uint64_t instead of 8x
NinjaDoggy: genius...
NinjaDoggy: wait no
AntiSquid: same
icecream17: YES! generateLegalMoves... generated the legal moves!!!! finally!!!!
fvla: UTTT?
NinjaDoggy: you need an extra and operation each time though?
AntiSquid: do you bitboard shadows ? :P MSmits
MSmits: yeah you do NinjaDoggy, it's a tradeoff
MSmits: but shadows are easier
MSmits: less maps to shade from
MSmits: i do AntiSquid
MSmits: uint64_t shadeArray[3][6][37] = { 0 } ;
Michael_Howard: On submit why do I usually seem to lose the 1st 2 battles then win most of the next 30? Are the first 2 picked from higher up?
AntiSquid: cool me too
miszu: it's true that bitmapping the board is more difficult because of the hexagone shape
MSmits: not necessarily
AntiSquid: total element size of that is 666 MSmits
MSmits: if you do everything with lookups, it does not matter
MSmits: AntiSquid yeah
struct: you do shadows with lookup?
MSmits: yeah
miszu: makes sense
struct: and its faster?
miszu: yes
MSmits: i just use the first 37 bit of uint64_t
NinjaDoggy: you're still looping through every tree though right?
miszu: you just bitwise or all of them
MSmits: struct i have no clue
MSmits: it's all very very fast, performance is not limiting me
struct: I can shadow everything with << or >> shifts
struct: yeah you are right
MSmits: i am looping trees yes NinjaDoggy
struct: I didnt care about performance
Nerchio: tbh eval is the hard part
Nerchio: not bitset itself
miszu: what's a good resource for eval
AntiSquid: well . i have something else for shadows, was considering MSmits version first 3 * 6 * 37 but then picked something else, you do other kind of loops elsewhere so not sure which is best
miszu: honeslty the eval that makes sense is how many points you have
miszu: in that state
miszu: if you are able to go deep
MSmits: it's dangerous to use score points miszu
NinjaDoggy: no...
MSmits: you win this game by completing trees later
NinjaDoggy: in order to go super deep you have to prune
MSmits: early on you have to *have* trees
MSmits: if you eval score, then you're just going to delete your trees
Nerchio: if you don't simulate opponent your search is only useful until certain depth imo
MSmits: unless of course you get all the way to the end of the game in your search
MSmits: that last eval can be actual game score
struct: time to go depth 130
NinjaDoggy: are most people not simming opponent with beam search?
struct: im not
MSmits: i think most players just use heuristics
struct: but my bot is still the one from beta test
MSmits: but the most used search is probably bs
MSmits: ignoring opp yeah
MSmits: but top players could be doing anything really
NinjaDoggy: nah, then there should be a bigger gap
miszu: pick random moves
miszu: best start
AntiSquid: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/549550334 oh look it made trees lmao ... -.-
Nerchio: similar problems AntiSquid its losing to my bot that has like 2 ifs
struct: Do eval slowly
struct: Like
struct: Make it plant seed first only
struct: then move to next step
struct: and so on
MSmits: AntiSquid seems like your progression is the same as mine, took me an hour or two to get it working after i finished coding first version
Waffle3z: any way to search clash of code problems to fix ones with problems?
DaNinja: tried this? https://eulerschezahl.herokuapp.com/codingame/puzzles/
MSmits: lol Waffle3z
Donald_D._Doge: someone mentioned clash during contest? ban / report / kick / execute automaton2000
Automaton2000: u need to get lucky
MSmits: it's contest time, lets spend it going through clashes and fixing them :P
itzluku: haha i am fixing bugs since 40g
itzluku: 40h*
Zenoscave: does overall score not work as a eval Struct?
Nerchio: no
Astrobytes: Now I KNOW that's a Westicles one Donald_D._Doge :rofl:
MSmits: Zenoscave only on the last turn
Zenoscave: hmmm...
MSmits: before that you need to eval having trees mostly
MSmits: and sun points to some degree
MSmits: i guess you can have score too, but make it small
struct: Also dont eval sun points very high
struct: or you will only wait
Westicles: Astrobytes, stop gaslighting me :P
Zenoscave: I'm going to start with pruning the search space before branching
Zenoscave: Westicles then stop making alts
MSmits: pruning helps a lot
Astrobytes: Never Westicles :D
Zenoscave: ;)
Donald_D._Doge: Astrobytes i'll shave your cat if you don't
Zenoscave: Also Hi all.
struct: hi
MSmits: gaslighting is when a buddy has a lighter and you ate some bad food right ?
Zenoscave: I wish MSmits
Astrobytes: I keep my pussies hairy, the fight is on
Astrobytes: And hiya Zeno
Donald_D._Doge: "manipulate (someone) by psychological means into doubting their own sanity." MSmits
MSmits: and then lighting their farts?
Zenoscave: Yes.
Zenoscave: then lighting their farts
Astrobytes: :/
Astrobytes: No, gaslighting is a serious issue. Here, in the context of Westicles, it is anything but
Astrobytes: WEsti + Doge
Zenoscave: gaslighting is definitely a serious issue. I just am not immune to a fart joke
Astrobytes: I admit to the same.
MSmits: :grin:
JSboss: I'm glad the term and the concept have entered the mainstream in the last couple years, no one talked much about gaslighting before 2017
MSmits: wait for it to be abused too much and lose all meaning
JSboss: and it happens often enough with serious enough ramifications that it behooves people to know abt it
JSboss: well it's already something of a buzzword i guess
JSboss: but still
Astrobytes: No, it's been a recognised issue over the years, I think the terminology only recently hit the mainstream
Astrobytes: Ah yes, sorry, just re-read your statement
Astrobytes: MSmits: when it matters it cannot lose meaning
MSmits: what i mean is, they will use it in situations where it's not really gaslighting
MSmits: therefore weakening the term
Sarkraf: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Astrobytes: Yes, and what I mean is that when it matters it cannot lose meaning.
Westicles: yeah, there was an SNL sketch recently making fun of just that MSmits
Astrobytes: Otherwise it's plainly redundant or false with even any sensible scrutiny
Astrobytes: -even
Westicles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZps0fR5TE4
Scarfield: you are HIV Aladeen
MSmits: Westicles i saw that
MSmits: the star trek one
MSmits: i think
MSmits: you're gaslighting me!!!
MSmits: right?
MSmits: spoiled teen girl voice
Westicles: yeah
Astrobytes: Yeah I mean I get that
Astrobytes: I cannot get on with these people with 0 life experience shouting about social justice and applying it to Every Single Thing.
mororo250: Is multithreading available?
struct: no
Astrobytes: But that doesn't mean everyone should completely disown the ideas where they are applicable - unfortunately that is the side effect.
Astrobytes: Sure mororo250: Get several needles, couple of spools of cotton thread, good to go
Astrobytes: But no.
Westicles: Yeah, I keep telling my gfs... you are 18, you can't accuse me of grooming
AntiSquid: gfs ? as in multiple ones ?
Westicles: er, well imaginary ones of course
Astrobytes: Westicles: Your game is strong
Astrobytes: If a little sillyl
Astrobytes: *silly
AntiSquid: woah ! it flinched ! it's not rank 4k+++ anymore
Westicles: which it?
PatrickMcGinnisII: ok, i lost 1000 ranks in 36 hours
Astrobytes: Judging by the position I'd say it's down there with Pennywise
itzluku: i think i totally just made my bot worse
itzluku: xD
Astrobytes: That's par for the course, don't worry about it.
itzluku: but 1000 ranks?
itzluku: :D
Astrobytes: It's a contest.
Astrobytes: Unless you find a strong strategy that beats the current strong ones you're just gonna wobble up and down the leaderboard
PatrickMcGinnisII: I was gone, attending a college graduation
AntiSquid: gz ?
PatrickMcGinnisII: GF got her masters
Astrobytes: gz almost sounds like a nerve agent
Astrobytes: Massive congrats to yer gf PatrickMcGinnisII :tada:
Astrobytes: It's a labour of love getting it
PatrickMcGinnisII: gz = GF, could be... my nerves are frazzled
PatrickMcGinnisII: Turnt it up last night at a Tavern tho. ;)
Westicles: I hate those things. The president of mexico spoke at mine for undergrad. Talked about mexico for a half hour
Westicles: God knows what they go on about these days
Astrobytes: The President of Mexico?
pluto-de: ok noob question time: `Warning: your code did not read all available input before printing an instruction [...]`. Is this my top priority to fix, or is it just mad at me for changing the starter code to read the input into an array and I should ignore it?
gangweed: i pissed myslef
gangweed: this website is run by psy op
PatrickMcGinnisII: they gave a medal to the dean of medicine.... smh.
PatrickMcGinnisII: 3+ hours of calling names...boring AF
Westicles: Astrobytes, yeah totally random choice
PatrickMcGinnisII: don
PatrickMcGinnisII: t ignore pluto-de
Astrobytes: Any awards ceremony is just grim
Astrobytes: Westicles: Very very fking random lol
pluto-de: alright ty paddy
PatrickMcGinnisII: undergrads were kinda hot tho
Astrobytes: PatrickMcGinnisII: put it back in yer shorts
PatrickMcGinnisII: they got debt, i'm an old man...lalalala
Astrobytes: :expressionless:
Astrobytes: You have a daughter.
pluto-de: can confirm, i'm his daughter
pluto-de: hi dad
PatrickMcGinnisII: that's what a nintendo Switch and door locks are for
PatrickMcGinnisII: stop pluto, they'll think u r serious
pluto-de: it's dark in here
pluto-de: at least i have this switch lol
Astrobytes: Too much lmao
Smelty: lmao
Astrobytes: Anyway, laters :rofl:
twoeyes: hello! :) I cannot find a reference... how do I save a battle and reload it into the online IDE for later testing?
PatrickMcGinnisII: "Alexa, play Marvin Gaye, Sade, and Seal" . Daughter will disappear real quick
PatrickMcGinnisII: cya Astrobytes
Smelty: o.o
icecream17: ooh, codingame faq says Node is used for js
CGGCoder: FINALLY
CGGCoder: I managed to get my code to work
icecream17: `console.error(__filename)` gets `/tmp/Answer.js`
MSmits: hey, do you add a message to output with " message"
icecream17: y
MSmits: kk
icecream17: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/11af02f2-f8bf-4fcb-add7-f059600600ee
MSmits: yay i watched 20 replays and not a single sim error :)
MSmits: i output "SIM ERROR" as a message when my checks fail
MSmits: so warn me if you see it :)
MSmits: crap i found one
skotz: fixing a negative nutrients bug helped more than i expected
MSmits: ohh it's a 2 seed to the same hex situation
MSmits: thought i handled that
MSmits: oh right, negative nutrients, thats important as well
AntiSquid: this wreck is finally climbing
AntiSquid: i have no clue what i fixed or how btw
AntiSquid: just changed eval values and submit spam, tiny improvement Q_Q
MSmits: nice when that happens
Emperatrice: moi je suis a ~800 avec 3 "if" pour mon algo mais je ne connais pas les truc CSB, XR, MCTS ou DUCT.
Emperatrice: du coup je plafonne je ne vois pas quoi ameliorer
MSmits: btw, i recommend you check sim this way: https://www.codingame.com/replay/549625306
MSmits: literally takes me 3 seconds to check an entire game for sim errors
MSmits: message is so nice
struct: MSmits I check vs playing vs myself
AntiSquid: #fr Emperatrice
MSmits: ah, locally you mean
struct: For simultaneous actions
struct: no
struct: also on ide
struct: but yeah also works localy
MSmits: how is that better than messages?
struct: how can you test simultaneous actions?
struct: like seeding
struct: the same cell
AntiSquid: it's the scoring and selection not the sim
struct: ah ok
struct: I tested whole sim
AntiSquid: talking to smits
MSmits: struct what i do is, i sim my own action with all opponent actions
MSmits: i get like 15 new states
struct: ah makes sense
MSmits: then i check all of them on the next turn for equality
MSmits: if i find none, then i output SIM ERROR
MSmits: and i can scroll throug the frames in seconds and spot it
struct: I understand
MSmits: just found one again
MSmits: i keep bugging on the same seed thingy
MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/replay/549625539
MSmits: around frame 47
MSmits: it doesnt actually matter for my beamsearch, but its annoying
struct: it happens when both seed same cell?
MSmits: yeah
MSmits: maybe i coded it a bit sloppily
MSmits: what i did was, i just let both players seed there and remove the seed afterwards and refund
struct: Yeah, I also should fix my code
struct: currently I have 2 functions to apply actions
MSmits: only 2?
struct: 1 for actions of same type and another for different
struct: Well its if else inside it
NinjaDoggy: isn't refunding harder?
MSmits: you mean when both players do an action of the same type?
struct: yes
NinjaDoggy: because you have to properly count the number of seeds before the move?
MSmits: NinjaDoggy i didnt bother much with that, it's just a debug check
struct: I store action cost and gain
MSmits: yeah there's probably an easier way
struct: inside the action
NinjaDoggy: if you check they're seeding the same position, just put the 2 trees on cooldown and that's it
MSmits: i dont actually ever sim a double seed action, as my opponent is static
NinjaDoggy: true
MSmits: makes sense NinjaDoggy, i'll go change that
struct: yeah its what I do
struct: I think I have cost or something stored due to undoAction
MSmits: ohh i found the bug
MSmits: if (myAction == Seed && oppAction == Seed && myIndex == oppIndex)
MSmits: but the index is a combined index for source and target for the seed
MSmits: and my opponent has a different source
MSmits: so this check is never true
struct: you store source and target in same ?
MSmits: yeah, so i can use the same state
MSmits: state stores an action type and index
MSmits: but seed is the only one with 2
MSmits: so i just combine them
MSmits: could have also done index2 and make it -1 for the others
MSmits: i probably would not now have this bug :P
struct: so N bits of myIndex store source and some store target?
MSmits: sourceIndex + 37 * targetIndex
struct: ah right
MSmits: so myIndex % 37 = sourceIndex
MSmits: myIndex / 37 = targetIndex
MSmits: allright, fixed, i hope, let's try another 30 games in submit :P It's pretty rare
vCamilx: yushu
vCamilx: mi amor
struct: not sure if I rewrite or not :/
Alcheemist: is there anyone get this issue
Oups
Une erreur est survenue (#407) : "You reached the limit of plays for a period of time."
rafaelSorel: yep when you submit over 20 test in a row
rafaelSorel: or so
rafaelSorel: you get stuck for 5 minutes
Nerchio: so do you guys sometimes get random timeouts too or its just me
Nerchio: garbage collector should not take any time i dont really use objects
fvla: I use C++ so I can't relate
fvla: no but seriously, which language?
Nerchio: java
fvla: hm
fvla: there should be no such issue with an if/else bot
fvla: which algorithm?
Nerchio: not sure i always get these timeouts at the start of events and later they happen less but i dont know if its because i fix my bots or servers work better
fvla: I have no clue then, sorry
Nerchio: i got a beamsearch on bitsets with an object pool (so should not get garbage collected ever)
fvla: hm
DaNinja: no timeouts with c++ and a 98ms limit. YOu start your timer after reading the first inputs?
Nerchio: yeah
Nerchio: well sometimes it drops me even before the search starts so kinda weird
DaNinja: segfault maybe?
Xenoid: What is a good way to time C++? std::chrono::high_resolution_clock?
DaNinja: yes
fvla: yeah, std::chrono is great
Xenoid: ok cool, thanks
Nerchio: well i allocate 700k State objects on the first turn
fvla: uhhhhhh
fvla: as in using "new" 700k times?
Nerchio: yeah
fvla: i don't know enough about Java to help you much, but I can tell you that using "new" that many times in any language is a recipe for disaster
GibbonThatCodes: my question here would be .. but why?
GibbonThatCodes: Like newing up 700k things seems excessive o.O
fvla: if you do that in C++, every C++ programmer in this chat would slap you in the face one after anotehr
Nerchio: well you can't not use new in java so..
GibbonThatCodes: Right but like, why do you need 700k things?
fvla: yeah
zach1502: lmao
fvla: and what are the things?
Nerchio: i had 300k state searches in the middle of the game and well more on the first turn i guess i will just try to lower it 2x
fvla: the hell
GibbonThatCodes: like, in total in my c sharp side of things right now I create like .. 40 - 45 things.. and thats it..
zach1502: insane
Nerchio: but I didn't think it should be a problem with allocation
rafaelSorel: depends what you put/process on your state
Nerchio: last event i had 300k states allocated first turn and it worked
Nerchio: and that had 50ms limit
jsmurl: dumb question: can you do more than one action a turn? this line confusing me "As long as you have enough sun points, you can take any number of actions."
yuyu: 700k news != 1 new for 700k object, no idea how to it in Java but you should do the latter
Xenoid: You can do one action per turn, and multiple actions per day
jsmurl: how many turns are in a day?
rafaelSorel: if you just process the sun points + score you can process several states I guess
Xenoid: As many as needed until both players use the WAIT action
jsmurl: ohhh I see
jsmurl: thanks @Xenoid makes sense
Xenoid: No problem
rafaelSorel: but if you start adding things like shadow prediction and grow prediction, things will get slow I think
rafaelSorel: but yes 700k Nerchio seems pretty good
Nerchio: its not good if it randomly times out haha
rafaelSorel: beamsearch or MCTS ?
Nerchio: beamsearch
rafaelSorel: ok
Nerchio: but as you said, these numbers were at the start when not much evaluation went in
rafaelSorel: yep
Nerchio: but on good turns i still get 300k
Nerchio: and well if you go with C++ you can probably double it
rafaelSorel: yes if you don't free anything :D
Nerchio: anyway
Nerchio: eval in this game is kinda pain :D
rafaelSorel: yep for the timeout , you can stop your beamsearch if you start hitting 80ms or so
Nerchio: I do ofc but problem with garbage collector is it can spike for 30ms or so
rafaelSorel: ohh
Nerchio: maybe it did garbage collecting on states over 400k that were considered unused even if kept in array
rafaelSorel: no way to disable it in java ? like in python when can do gc disable
Nerchio: no you cant really control it
Nerchio: or some kind of memory rearrangement that took 30 ms
Nerchio: so if added to my beamsearch was going over the limit
Marchete: garbage collection of 400k states?
icecream17: hmm, I placed a seed, then I had 2 sun, and 3 seeds. But the game says I can still place seeds
Nerchio: I preallocated 700k states, but only first 400k were used after round1
Nerchio: so maybe it did some funny stuff with the last 300k
Marchete: but if you keep an array[] or list with these they won't go GC
Nerchio: thats what i mean
Nerchio: they are in an array
Nerchio: so nothing should happen
hyphz: 700k Nerchio? Starcraft?
Marchete: yeah
Nerchio: but i lowered it from 700k to 400k and i dont get timeouts
Nerchio: for now?
Kellthazar: Rust has no GC :D
Nerchio: weird
Marchete: if I recall I had these
Marchete: some static factory constructor
Marchete: so I called getNew()
Marchete: that took free objects from a list
Marchete: and release
Marchete: for the same
Marchete: 0 GC
Marchete: but a PITA
DaNinja: you checked the forum? Theres a couple of posts about GC
DaNinja: https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/timeout-in-tic-tac-toe-in-java/164930/6
Nerchio: thats what i am doing cause its kinda neccessary for GC languages that use searches
Marchete: C# has functions to try to minimize GC
Nerchio: if you try playing with too many objects in GC languages you are not going to have fun on Codingame :D
Nerchio: and I already got some experience from previous contests and it still surprises me
DaNinja: 700k width beamsearch? :D
icecream17: nevermind, it was my bug
Nerchio: i use width 700 now but didn't play around with it too much
icecream17: alright! generateLegalMoves is done (x2) so maybe search time?
icecream17: oh wait, i also have to implement "do action"
dreadylein: guts would tell me to check the move generation and search itself if something builds up gc pressure
dreadylein: the array shouldnt be the problem in theory
Nerchio: except preallocated State objects my search is all primitive types
Nerchio: so should be clean
dreadylein: hard to tell, guess your best bet is profiling the exact point
SoyMicrah: q
SoyMicrah: q
SoyMicrah: q
Hydrazer: is perl a good language
pmor: I've had to deal with perl scripts that made my eyes bleed
Rag: :grin:
miszu: DaNinja that's my post!
miszu: I am famous
DaNinja: did you ever get it fixed? :)
icecream17: ok, i switched from js to typescript and fixed 1 bug. submitting
miszu: I fixed it by kicking java out of the window and coding it in c++
miszu: I was able to reach legendary in UTTT
NinjaDoggy: yep that's my experience too :)
miszu: reaching legendary gave me ptsd
DaNinja: a wise decision
miszu: the grind was real
miszu: I wonder if the strats here is simply spend 1/3 of days planting as many seeds then next third upgrade as many trees and last third chop everything
NinjaDoggy: no, upgrading trees give u more sun
NinjaDoggy: and planting costs more the more seeds u have
zenwraight: Hi guys I have a question, how can I print debug statements other than COmplete and wait commands
miszu: cerr << "ain't gonna give you up << endl;
DaNinja: print to stderr
NinjaDoggy: you can't print messages for seed or grow?
miszu: yeah
miszu: anything after the command is extra stuff
hexa8: never gunna giv u up!
never gunna let u down..
miszu: so like: SEED 50 ain't gonna give you up
zenwraight: got it let me try
miszu: you will see your wizerd singing
PatrickMcGinnisII: do not rick A us
miszu: you're a wizerd Harry
zenwraight: thanks guys printing to err works
miszu: we accept donation via paypal or bitcoins for the help
zenwraight: it's my first time in this type of contest,I am a beginner
miszu: we provided
zenwraight: looking forward to learn from u guys
DaNinja: good luck learning anything from us!
zenwraight: do u guys take part in other challenges like on codeforces etc ?
miszu: as long as you don't ask for answers we will help
miszu: during ongoing challenges, don't expect too much help as everyone has the secret sauce
zenwraight: yes sure not during contest
DaNinja: the post mortems in the Forums are a good source of tips from previous challenges
zenwraight: Got it thanks a lot :) I will check it out once i get past the first league
miszu: especially the previous challenge
zenwraight: aah thanks for the hint
miszu: lots of strats are relevant here
zenwraight: since how long have u guys been taking part ?
miszu: I started yesterday
miszu: the challenge
zenwraight: nice
zenwraight: no i meant these kind of challenges
miszu: I am in bronze but I am discouraged of coding the engine for simulations
miszu: I did 2 competitions
miszu: and some outside of the competition time for education
zenwraight: got it
slamo: how do you print debug text in go?
DaNinja: it should say in the default code comments
DaNinja: fmt.Fprintln(os.Stderr, "Debug messages...")
PatrickMcGinnisII: msmits, i decided to start using a lookup table for the shadows, u think adding an extra hex would save cpu cycles?
PatrickMcGinnisII: like sun position 0...index 1...tree size 3 ... change mask on board indexes 7,19,38 ... or just use neighbor stuff?
Smelty: o.O
PatrickMcGinnisII: maybe a need some tree spirit juju
PatrickMcGinnisII: earlier he said he was using 37 as the board size, I'm thinking an extra cell could be used to dump off board masks eliminating a condition statement
DaNinja: like shade[3][6][38] ?
PatrickMcGinnisII: nah, not so deep
PatrickMcGinnisII: if bits 0 and 1 are the treesize
DaNinja: I thought he said he pre-calculates shade[3][6][37]
PatrickMcGinnisII: hmm
DaNinja: 666 uint64
PatrickMcGinnisII: i was thinking shadebyindexdirection[37][6][3], lol
PatrickMcGinnisII: but if it trails off the board, then a cell index of 37 would just be a dumping ground for xor operations
DaNinja: why would it trail off?
PatrickMcGinnisII: so a board state size of 38 instead of 37
DaNinja: for the -1 neighbors?
PatrickMcGinnisII: tree size 3, on index 7...would shade 7,19, and then an offboard cell
PatrickMcGinnisII: elliminating the test for -1
PatrickMcGinnisII: not having to use the neighbor thing at all
PatrickMcGinnisII: i'm just thinking aloud
PatrickMcGinnisII: so 7,19,37
PatrickMcGinnisII: imma try it
DaNinja: dont think its needed if you just do shade[idx][dir][size] & (1<<cell)
PatrickMcGinnisII: i wanna mask right on the board
PatrickMcGinnisII: but i see what u are saying
PatrickMcGinnisII: the board has to be cloned/copied anyway...and i would be adding a bit op to the copy to reset the shadow
PatrickMcGinnisII: damned if i do and damned if i dont
Zenoscave: Struct what's your beam width
PatrickMcGinnisII: kinda personal there Zenoscave
PatrickMcGinnisII: sry
Zenoscave: Hes told his depth. Just figured I might ask ;)
Westicles: 200
Zenoscave: IS that troll westi?
Westicles: hey zeno
PatrickMcGinnisII: what's the max commands in a day any1 has encountered? I think i did 2 grows and a seed, but haven't seen more, anyone?
Zenoscave: hiya
Zenoscave: Theoretical max is 38
Notter: You can do more than one command a day?
PatrickMcGinnisII: I compute all the commands for an entire day
PatrickMcGinnisII: there can be multiple turns/day, but only 1 output per input cycle i believe
PatrickMcGinnisII: I haven't been able to compute optimal sun ramping spanning multiple days yet
DaNinja: yep, as long as you have enough sun points
PatrickMcGinnisII: i can drop 2 seeds in a day, but dropping 3 in a day is dumb
PatrickMcGinnisII: darn ok, i see a grow grow grow seed seed on round 14
CouscousAgha: Can you train vs a specific person ?
DaNinja: yes, delete the AI and select
DaNinja: but limited to the top 1000 in your league
Westicles: Zenoscave, this is from earlier on beamwidth
Westicles: struct: more than 1k less than 10k
PatrickMcGinnisII: in midgame i see a max of like 66 legal moves, it's just a matter of finding the best combo
Zenoscave: Ah yeah I fogot there's an index from and to on seeding
Rag: to find best combo u also simulate enemy moves?
Zenoscave: A rough estimate would be 18^2
PatrickMcGinnisII: i think the next step is just not grow on cell that will shadow anyway on next turn
PatrickMcGinnisII: darn, i grow and shadow my own trees as well which has a - overall effect
PatrickMcGinnisII: smh
AbsentMoon: I'm struggling to come up with an efficient way to calculate the possible locations for a tree to plant a seed. Does anyone have any suggestions?
icecream17: tree.neihbors.neihbors.nehibors, remove duplicates, remove self, remove non empty cells
Westicles: You are given a list of all possible moves
Bernard_Lowe: I agree with icecream. Be sure to keep unusable tiles though.
icecream17: O(n^3) solution. some peopl hardcoded it - so O(1)
icecream17: but i was too lazy to hardcode it
AbsentMoon: I am about halfway through hard coding it... but I'm lazy.
icecream17: if anyone has already hardcoded it plz plz share
PatrickMcGinnisII: finally
PatrickMcGinnisII: https://www.codingame.com/replay/549741887
PatrickMcGinnisII: I'm gonna submit and sleep
DaNinja: gg
PatrickMcGinnisII: i see u icecream17
xuanwei-go: how can i join in the game that i have failed in clash of code just now?
PatrickMcGinnisII: 302nd from 801st ... not bad for piddlefarting around.
Smelty: dang
miszu: oh imposter of the vent, tell us your secret sauce
Smelty: *imposter kills you*
miszu: :(
PatrickMcGinnisII: the basics without more than a depth 1 day sim... is to count your trees by size... stay within certain proportions and it';s close to optimal... no quite, but close
PatrickMcGinnisII: g'nite, have fun
Smelty: my code doesnt run :((
xuanwei-go: get go
miszu: btw guys, tomorrow is mother's day in case you forgot
icecream17: oh yeah time to look at https://www.chessprogramming.org/Search
Kolo9: if I'm understanding the definition of "knight moves" correctly, you can use the provided neighbors list
