Chat:World/2021-04-17

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Default avatar.png NotSureWhyThisWorks: Anybody had any luck with genetic algorithms in python for CSB or search race?

MadKnight: NotSureWhyThisWorks how exactly are u gonna use genetic algo for it ?

**Mr.Pepper woke up

Default avatar.png NotSureWhyThisWorks: simulating the next n moves and using genetic algorithm to pick the best solution. Similar to what is described in the post mortems for CSB (http://files.magusgeek.com/csb/csb_en.html , https://www.codingame.com/blog/evolutionary-trajectory-optimization/?utm_source=codingame&utm_medium=details-page&utm_campaign=cg-blog&utm_content=csb , etc)

Marchete: happy caturday

jacek: happy Caturday

MadKnight: NotSureWhyThisWorks it's all actually a lot easier

MadKnight: NotSureWhyThisWorks u can just generate 10 000 random 6 depth movements and pick the best one

Default avatar.png Mandelbort: n**n

Default avatar.png Mandelbort: sdfadfad

Default avatar.png NotSureWhyThisWorks: MadKnight have you implemented that with python and has success? I am fairly new to this and not sure how possible it is to try lots of combinations in a short time (<50ms) with python in particular

MadKnight: NotSureWhyThisWorks u would have barely enough sims to randomize a somewhat straight movement

MadKnight: well for just 1 pod it would be better

Marchete: with python you can't

MadKnight: no u actually can

MadKnight: my bot worked nice with 600 sims

Marchete: "how possible it is to try lots of combinations in a short time (<50ms) with python in particular"

Marchete: pretty much impossible

Marchete: unless 600 sims is "lots of combinations"

MadKnight: u just need to separate pod simulation

MadKnight: and they will manage to somewhat move the right direction

MadKnight: somewhat

Default avatar.png NotSureWhyThisWorks: so ~600 sims of completely random 6 depth movements worked well?

MadKnight: well not completely...

Default avatar.png NotSureWhyThisWorks: the real question is did it beat the gold boss?

MadKnight: actually if u get at least 1k then it's good

Default avatar.png yyzl: 我是中国的

Default avatar.png yyzl: :stuck_out_tongue:

jacek: opening book eh

Marchete: eeeh

Marchete: I think that your jacekmax is somehow an alphazero, you just replace the policy part for a reuse of the value one, via children

Marchete: the good thing is that the NN is smaller and simpler to train

Marchete: the bad thing is that if the game simulation is costly

Marchete: you need many sims to get the policy part (you need to simulate all children and get the NN value)

jacek: yes

jacek: my training 'framework' mostly looks like a0 one, except theres no policy

Marchete: and the MCTS should behave similarly

Marchete: I still don't know what "value" to send to train it

Marchete: I have 2 random NN weights

Marchete: so I have gamestate + value

Marchete: but what to send to the training part?

Marchete: go to endgame and backtrack -1.0 and 1.0 for winner and loser?

jacek: im using the value for root of the search

Marchete: I mean replace all gamestate values for -1.0 or 1.0?

Marchete: but the value from random weights are just sh*t

Marchete: no?

jacek: at first yes. but at very least they would be good near endgames

jacek: after a while a true values from endgames would be propagated earlier and earlier

Marchete: maybe I'd try a mixed approach

jacek: that was my issue with temporal difference learning, when you update every step. at first it seems it would adjust to random weights. but eventually it will get into more true values

Marchete: k*win/loss + (1-k)*root value

jacek: could be, that what connect4 folks did at first

Marchete: I think that could take care of short and long term

jacek: https://medium.com/oracledevs/lessons-from-alphazero-part-4-improving-the-training-target-6efba2e71628

Marchete: to be honest

Marchete: I trust CG people more than those papers

Marchete: most papers are either NN with thousand of nodes

Marchete: or python code with questionable performance

Marchete: right now my jacekmax code fails at exploring

Default avatar.png yyzl: Hi,I am chinese

Marchete: sometimes it just go for a node and doesn't explore any other

Marchete: I need that at least the depth 1 moves are expanded and tested

jacek: oh, i didnt mention in UCT im using random [0.9,1.1] * value

Marchete: random?

Marchete: why?

jacek: randomly multiply by 0.9-1.1

jacek: so it wont be deterministic, and for training the bounds could be bigger

Marchete: ok

jacek: and apparently its good against bookers

Marchete: :)

Marchete: I'll try to fix my FPU and then I'll check how to train

Marchete: at least it can beat a random bot

Krishnam_Raju_Ch: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/1696829acdfe29232d5ed874a97a28741645735

jacek: oO

Marchete: Oo

Default avatar.png caldelta: good afternoon

jacek: hello

MangoBunchBoyRazor: heyy

yyzl: www

Coder_prabhat: heyyyyy

yyzl: port

yyzl: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/16969551f10014b5bcb92dd3eafb597047e6ddf

MangoBunchBoyRazor: aight

yyzl: higaidoushou

Default avatar.png Prifa: hi

Default avatar.png CALLmeANIKET: python coders are script kiddies

MangoBunchBoyRazor: what about javascript?

Default avatar.png Distilled-Water: lol

Default avatar.png CALLmeANIKET: javascript is the root cause for global warming

Alex-1: hi

BhoO: hi

Default avatar.png caldelta: HTML?

jacek: CSS!

jacek: YMCA?

Default avatar.png TenYearOldBrocolli_bf2: hi

Alex-1: hi

Alex-1: there

Default avatar.png HolyJesusYOuPervert: hello world

**Mr.Pepper want to kick a ball

Default avatar.png BlackCys: Hi all !!!

Default avatar.png basem_: gfbdfgd

Default avatar.png basem_: df

Default avatar.png basem_: df

Default avatar.png basem_: d

Default avatar.png basem_: d

struct: stop spamming

Default avatar.png BlackCys: Please !! introduce for me , Some games is easy level

Default avatar.png BlackCys: :((( I'm newbie

Mr.Pepper: do puzzles : p easy puzzles

Default avatar.png HolyJesusYOuPervert: hoho

Default avatar.png BlackCys: Ohh

Default avatar.png BlackCys: Thanks you for much

Default avatar.png BlackCys: @@

Default avatar.png BlackCys: <3

multii: hi

Default avatar.png HolyJesusYOuPervert: hello

multii: sup

BhoO: boo

Default avatar.png shenshaoning: I don't understand how to play the "coders strike back", what's the meaming of the game?

inoryy: to finish a race faster than your opponent

Default avatar.png Armia_Evil: ...

jacek: oO

Default avatar.png Armia_Evil: ...

jacek: to finish a race, you meant to eliminate the race?

jacek: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/bnaceq/if_you_could_eliminate_a_race_within_the_year/

Default avatar.png Ordonnateur: For this puzzle you have to gather all possible stack possible then choose the lowest size one or there is a trick with some instant function doing the job for me (because being easy with having some timeout managment doesn't seems normal for me xd) ? https://www.codingame.com/training/easy/container-terminal I'm trying to do it in C++ (yeah that's not the best idea xd) but either I'm blind, either it's "easy" only on specific language ^^'.

Default avatar.png Armia_Evil: :chocolate_bar:

Default avatar.png Armia_Evil: :chocolate_bar::lollipop::candy:

Default avatar.png Ordonnateur: :apple:

geppoz: Ordonnateur what do you mean?

geppoz: the string is short, max 500 char

geppoz: so even a simple search for each char should be enough

geppoz: for that dimensions an O(n²) is viable

Default avatar.png Ordonnateur: yes 500 char but you have a lot of combination with just doing all possible case

Default avatar.png Armia_Evil: :lollipop::candy::lollipop::candy: Ordon

geppoz: scan the next input char, then search if you can put it in an existing position or if you need to add another

geppoz: (that is my tought looking at the statement, I didn't solved yet)

Default avatar.png Ordonnateur: This only don't work on every case

geppoz: ok, trying, let you know

Default avatar.png Ordonnateur: because nothing say what is the "best" to keep before ending the sort (look at the cba spam for ex)

Default avatar.png Ordonnateur: (sort -> string* mb ;p)

geppoz: well solved...

geppoz: it is easy...

geppoz: I suppose you are thinking too far... ;)

Default avatar.png Ordonnateur: with the creation of all possible combination ?

geppoz: no need

geppoz: just examining input as he comes

geppoz: you can decide exactly where to best put every char as it comes

Default avatar.png Yash27: hey in private clashes there's only 1 question per clash right? is there any way we can increase num of ques per game?

Uljahn: Yash27: no

Default avatar.png Yash27: okay

Default avatar.png Ordonnateur: How can you know if it's better to put c on b or to do 2 column when you check only the current char ? (with cbacba and cba the best choice is different so you have to check the whole thing no ?)

Uljahn: no

geppoz: put it on the stack where the top is greater, but minimum

geppoz: if there is not, then put in another stack

geppoz: *greater or equal

Default avatar.png Ordonnateur: don't work on cba spam...

Uljahn: just put it in cbaaaa, cbbb, cc

Uljahn: ez

geppoz: give me the sequence, i give you the steps

Default avatar.png Ordonnateur: (imagine having cbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacba)

geppoz: well maybe shorter :D

Default avatar.png Ordonnateur: doing like uljahn show it don't print 3

geppoz: with cbacbacba you solve doing:

geppoz: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/8e1c5641-9f89-43e6-a7e6-fa5550b2ca67

Uljahn: ['cbaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa', 'cbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb', 'ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc'] [solved]

Default avatar.png Ordonnateur: So the validator are too dumb to have a really logic result ? It's not supposed to be sorted like that ><'

PatrickMcGinnisII: cbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacbacba answer is 3

Uljahn: ^

MadKnight: Automaton2000 banbanbanbanban

Automaton2000: get rid of the old ones

PatrickMcGinnisII: Container Terminal isn't tower og hanoi on crack

PatrickMcGinnisII: og=of

Default avatar.png Ordonnateur: Ah... well that was quite unexpected to end like this Uljahn ;p thx ^^'

CoderDJD: I'm not sure whether I can ask this here, still. I'm working on an open source appliction, which helps developers find contributors for their open source projects. Could someone please join in and help me out? Stack : SQL, Express GraphQL, React(tsx) and generally, for the whole project, TS.

Default avatar.png Ordonnateur: (didn't thought there was multiple way of having the same minimal width with different case ^^')

Default avatar.png kresteodymium: hi

Default avatar.png kresteodymium: hello world

nmortfeus: print("hello world")

Default avatar.png kresteodymium: cout << "hello world"

jacek: syntax error

BhoO: :rofl:

BhoO: ;

PatrickMcGinnisII: die(eval(0/0));

Careeza: Hi in ghost-in-the-cell when youse INC to increase the production rate of a factory can the new production rate be higher than 3 ?

Default avatar.png DhruvaM: heellllooo anyone for clash of code?


PatrickMcGinnisII: Automaton2000 put me out of my misery

Automaton2000: if you use some kind of random search

struct: MSmits are you here?

jacek: delete yavalath and see

Default avatar.png TheMUS: what a day ha?

Default avatar.png sandball: hello, I am new

Ambarsariya: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/1697635c7e0b6267e57855b724fe860300367a7

BlaiseEbuth: -> #clash Ambarsariya

Ambarsariya: ok

Cicada001: hola

computermagician: can someone please teach me how to become pro at this?

BhoO: practice

computermagician: I'm new

MadKnight: well hi new

computermagician: hey there madknight

computermagician: care to teach me how to program?

Default avatar.png TheMUS: well

Default avatar.png TheMUS: come to discord

MadKnight: becoming pro is actually easy u just need to play these PvP bot programming challenges for some time

computermagician: I don't know how to program though

jacek: use madmax [solved]

Cicada001: bruh i dont understand tht bot level where u hv to move from one check point to other

jacek: coders strike back?

BhoO: Detective Pikaptcha EP1 everytime time out

BhoO: :\

therealbeef: timeout can also be due to a crash

BhoO: i see

BhoO: thanx found it i think i go outside array

jacek: going outside array is illegal

BhoO: oh yeah : p

Cicada001: hellonyoone?

Default avatar.png MrFruit: Helo

BhoO: o/

Default avatar.png proace21: xxx

Default avatar.png proace21: hi

Default avatar.png proace21: hi

Default avatar.png proace21: hi

Default avatar.png proace21: hi

miny: hi

computermagician: hey which programming language is the easiest?

PatrickMcGinnisII: such a simple question

computermagician: hmm?

PatrickMcGinnisII: complex answer

PatrickMcGinnisII: depends on what u wanna do

PatrickMcGinnisII: If you just wanna jump into CG, python probably has the smallest learning curve to start. for speed use one of the C langs, , for apps etc. java maybe with a little kotlin thrown in, for web there is a variety. so there u go.

computermagician: thanks

Default avatar.png Luka_BTW: hi

BhoO: o/

Astrobytes: \o

PatrickMcGinnisII: Watching the news... I'm scared /n

Astrobytes: Why?

BhoO: covid ?

PatrickMcGinnisII: Big Pharm saying people need booster shots

PatrickMcGinnisII: smh

PatrickMcGinnisII: news is bad for my brain

Astrobytes: Hm. Haven't seen that here yet

Astrobytes: With the new strains it kinda figures, but they need a new vax for those. Greedy shites.

PatrickMcGinnisII: all about the $

Astrobytes: Yeah. Always.

Astrobytes: I mean don't believe the conspiracies, if they had cures for things etc we'd all be robbing banks to get them :P

PatrickMcGinnisII: Need a landfill for the 200M needles

Astrobytes: They're incinerated.

PatrickMcGinnisII: ahh,ok

Astrobytes: Also a problem, but less so than landfills full of hypodermic needles :D

BlaiseEbuth: Yeah. I made good deal with the subcontracting of incinerations. :smiling_imp:

PatrickMcGinnisII: Need to buy stock in those companies

jacek: buy doges

Astrobytes: Beelzébuth right on cue

BlaiseEbuth: Business

PatrickMcGinnisII: I'm dragging my feet on night of war

jacek: huh

Astrobytes: PatrickMcGinnisII: I don't rate it tbh

Astrobytes: MSmits: :clap:

jacek: ?

PatrickMcGinnisII: I got a alpha beta setup, but I'm worried higher leagues are gonna screw it up

Astrobytes: You really don't need ab for the first leagues. They are totally pointless leagues.

PatrickMcGinnisII: did yall straight minmax?

Astrobytes: I think I hardcoded until top league.

jacek: minimax now, heuristics in lower leagues

PatrickMcGinnisII: I'm thinking about changing the eval to include a null move heuristic, never did that b4

Astrobytes: jeez dude

jacek: theres WAIT move

PatrickMcGinnisII: oh yea, i usually ignore those cause they make the tree too big...but at final action depth it should give better results

Astrobytes: You don't need a search and *definitely* don't need to start messing around with the null move heuristic.

Astrobytes: Just play to win. The bosses are ridiculously easy.

jacek: i mean null move heuristic would be pointless here if its legal action

Astrobytes: ^

PatrickMcGinnisII: brain fog, i'll make sure my minmax works

Astrobytes: I'm not convinced it's a good game tbh

jacek: oO

Astrobytes: I mean it works, and he did a good job etc. I just don't really feel it.

PatrickMcGinnisII: reminds me of the game whre you have to shoot around obstacles

PatrickMcGinnisII: hmm

PatrickMcGinnisII: ahh, cultist wars

Astrobytes: Kinda different

PatrickMcGinnisII: and Code of ice and fire

Astrobytes: That had a lot more depth to it

Astrobytes: imo

PatrickMcGinnisII: true

PatrickMcGinnisII: waas gonna switch to C++ for next contest, but I'm doing house remodel... took today off

Astrobytes: Did you sort out the wrecked property?

PatrickMcGinnisII: they screwed a satellite dish to the roof

PatrickMcGinnisII: besides them damaging every wall and door,etc. in the house

PatrickMcGinnisII: I have to put a new roof on it

WannaBeHum1n: fet tesla solar roof

PatrickMcGinnisII: so, not all the way...gonna take 5 weeks

WannaBeHum1n: get*

PatrickMcGinnisII: when I'm done Imma hafta sell house to recoop my $

WannaBeHum1n: oh

PatrickMcGinnisII: it's a rental, i don't live in it

PatrickMcGinnisII: er was a rental

PatrickMcGinnisII: people suck

WannaBeHum1n: sorry about it

WannaBeHum1n: mate

Default avatar.png kresteodymium: hello world

PatrickMcGinnisII: renter came to the house while I was working there this week

MadKnight: Automaton2000 stop creeping on people's houses

Automaton2000: i've been thinking about that

PatrickMcGinnisII: she wanted her security deposit....like NO. She went in house and tried arguing with me, I had to call cops and have her trespassed. people suck. <3 Automaton2000

Automaton2000: not sure how it works

Astrobytes: PatrickMcGinnisII: Yes, yes they do :/

MadKnight: sounds like a story to tell in a circle of friends

MadKnight: Automaton2000 how do i get into a circle of friends ?

Automaton2000: and this is the default ai

PatrickMcGinnisII: did i miss Phillip's funeral?

jacek: was it fun

MadKnight: Automaton2000 let's keep randomly popping up in the chat to ping Automaton2000 a few times and never talk to someone else

Automaton2000: i'm looking for a job

PatrickMcGinnisII: yup i missed it

PatrickMcGinnisII: 15 years ago exactly...I was in the UK, i'm getting old

MadKnight: naaa i think u can still do it

PatrickMcGinnisII: sry going afk

Default avatar.png kresteodymium: hi

MadKnight: hihi

Default avatar.png kresteodymium: wow level 41

Default avatar.png kresteodymium: orz

Astrobytes: PatrickMcGinnisII: Phil's funeral was today. No one cares :P

MadKnight: kresteodymium well everyone is like that at first, but then they realize that bot programming results are much more cool

BlaiseEbuth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0UIKhFROCA

Default avatar.png kresteodymium: lol

Default avatar.png kresteodymium: are you guys in college

Default avatar.png kresteodymium: adults owo

KelvinAndHubbles: How do people even come up with the strategies that win the leagues, is it a lot of guesswork or just very good educated guesses?

DetoBot: Read lot of books

DetoBot: diligence is the key

KelvinAndHubbles: well, no amount of reading the Star Wars books made me better at CSB :/

DetoBot: Not fairy tales

DetoBot: ;)

KelvinAndHubbles: Ahh, thats where I'm going wrong, thanks

KelvinAndHubbles: now I can finally get out of bronze

DetoBot: Great but stop torturing NNs

DetoBot: make them friends

KelvinAndHubbles: naa GANNs are my favorites, take the best Networks and kill the worst

DetoBot: :joy:

KelvinAndHubbles: altho, I use a self written algorithim for that, so that probably shows why I'm not getting very far

DetoBot: keep up the good work

DetoBot: good luck bye

KelvinAndHubbles: thank you for the advice, wise sage

DetoBot: made me look Idiot :stuck_out_tongue:

Smelty: o . o

Default avatar.png JohnnyCodes: a

**Smelty falls asleep

Default avatar.png Mandelbort: lololololololololoolololo

jackthrow893: hi all