Chat:World/2021-03-10
DrQuarius: \msg R3Ked hey
hex.master8: @everyone
creeperZnation4: Was that a test?
hex.master8: maybe
hex.master8: maybe not
hex.master8: \msg hex.master8 sup
NINJAPRIYANSH: hi
NINJAPRIYANSH: hi
NINJAPRIYANSH: h
NINJAPRIYANSH: hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiihihihih
hex.master8: hi
hex.master8: a mod is on
hex.master8: https://www.codingame.com/profile/5ad347b268338aebc0ef7a511f88d1630404214
hex.master8: this guy is
hex.master8: 9999th
hex.master8: LOL
hex.master8: im impressed
MSmits: he's 9999th because he doesn't understand binary
MSmits: :P
kovi: 9999 is still top5%
MSmits: I meant, if he understood binary, he would have tried to be 32767th or 16383th or something
aramdov: interesting
aramdov: i was looking at the permissions websites have in my google chrome browser and codingame was copying my clipboard randomly?
aramdov: thanks so much for user privacy!
jeffkubler: jk. saw your school. I'm originally from there and currently applying for a new position that gets back home
Uljahn: that's a known issue with obsolete versions of monaco editor i guess https://github.com/microsoft/monaco-editor/issues/2307
TheSpiffiest: eh... middle of clash and just don't feel like typing the answer
TheSpiffiest: good night folks, my thinkers done
Stormalix: relatable
Passifi: Good morning everyone
Butanium: yay 250 th for platinium Rift 2
Butanium: and I didn't start any pathfinding algorithm
Butanium: I chose to use a bonus and malus strategy and every agent go in a direction determined on a score based on those bonus and malus and on the distance from the ally base
Joris_Serva: Gusti
Joris_Serva: ateik faceita
Joris_Serva: zinau kad matai
MatasPowerPointPro: gusti ateik
tutubalin: what happens if contribution gets only 1 approval when time to validate ends? is it accepted or rejected?
MatasPowerPointPro: what are you doing guys
GabrieliusKaubrys11: hello i have zalgiris virus
shredyz: alio kur skola
Abduljabar: hey guys can you speak english?
Neklausiau: nebaisiai
Abduljabar: okay
pardouin: I don't know tutubalin, I've seen contributions with only 2 approvals but they were old so maybe it was an old rule
pardouin: I just approved the fibonnacci one so maybe he'll have his 3rd validation in time anyway
[CG]Thibaud: tutubalin pardouin it goes back as a draft for the author and the approval votes are lost
pardouin: ok
pardouin: is it ok to advertise its own contrib on the forum ? cause I got one that ends in 3 days and no feedbacks yet so I'm a bit worried ^^"
nnovich-OK: If time to approve contribution ends, it's automatically rejected, but it's ok, because author can immediately re-publish it.
MadKnight: yea but he loses all the approvals
MadKnight: [CG]Thibaud why don't u sort the contribs by days left and mark those that have less than 5 days for example ?
darkhorse64: They are sorted this way already
[CG]Thibaud: pardouin I wouldn't remove such a post but if everyone does that, the forum won't be usable.
MadKnight: and some kind of a small note in the header of website saying like 'contrib needs your response asap!"
darkhorse64: @pardouin: I have looked at your contribution some time ago but I am unconvinced. It's certainly not a piece of junk but it's too light content-wise
[CG]Thibaud: actually the red notif could indicate the ones that don't have much time left to be validated instead of the new ones :thinking_face:
[CG]Thibaud: puzzles take longer to validate, it's difficult to motivate people to look into it
MadKnight: yea but then u would need to change the icon so it would be intuitive that it means the ones that don't have much time left
MadKnight: because the red circle just doesn't do it
Passifi: Holy smokes shortest mode counts all the generated code and the comments as characters oO jesus so much wasted chars in so many battles...
MadKnight: lol
pardouin: and spaces too ! well now you won't do that same mistake again ^^
MadKnight: of course it counts that didn't u notice the counter in the bottom right corner Passifi ?
Passifi: well I didn't ^^
MadKnight: darkhorse64 why didn't u leave a comment under the contrib? or u dud?
MadKnight: did*
pardouin: you can indente it as you would normally do and spam shift+tab in the end ^^
MadKnight: yea they use a 4-char whitespace instead of a tab character
darkhorse64: Yep, I should have done that
MSmits: comments in shortest mode :grin:
Passifi: I always write a little message to my self #You're fierce, powerful and fearless. as a comment to get myself hyped :P
MSmits: #stop talking to yourself, score is dropping!
tutubalin: in shortest mode on Python i use 1-space indent, and usually try to get rid of extra lines inside blocks using semicolon
AntiSquid: actions speak louder than words
Passifi: in coding all our actions are words...
Passifi: I think this breaks the transitive property. A fresh new way to create a paradox to destroy AIs who've gone mad *takesnote*
tutubalin: if contribution gets 3 approvals does it still wait until end of 30 days period, or approved instantly?
MadKnight: ofc no
MadKnight: now i think u are trolling
MadKnight: yea let's wait more days so that people change their mind and get to 4 declines
Theino: the only way to know is if people give me two more approvals for my contribution
Theino: https://www.codingame.com/contribute/view/63618707a685d8557571cabb82f9ed5b28d9
Theino: clearly the logical thing to do :)
tutubalin: MadKnight i remember times when there were group of friends approving each other, which resulted in a bunch of bad-worded puzzles.
Theino: I should feel ashamed, but when the quest map says you need one more upvote... Honestly, its amazing how much the quest map has motivated me to do things on this site
tutubalin: pardouin i'm looking at your contrib. the hardest thing is that i have to solve it before approving :)
pardouin: thanks
pardouin: it's not that hard, I wanted to label it medium initially
pardouin: it shouldn't take you too long :)
derjack: contributions should be divided into categories ~
darkhorse64: clash/others ?
derjack: yes, trash/others
darkhorse64: do you request an auto reject feature ?
derjack: eeyup
darkhorse64: 3 people checking the box. No more CoCs
darkhorse64: Not sure CG will approve :grin:
AntiSquid: obv CG likes clash, that's why it's there
Astrobytes: I propose 3 categories. Trash, Puzzle and 5%
AntiSquid: makes sense ^
BlaiseEbuth: I agree. But only if "approve contribution" is changed to "move to trash" for clashs.
Astrobytes: :grin:
AntiSquid: reminds me of the times people post clash invites and questions during contests
AntiSquid: one couldn't be any more tone deaf
Astrobytes: Yeah. Or puzzle of the week questions...
Astrobytes: They should disable that in contest times. Or have an 'opt in' option.
BlaiseEbuth: Disable questions, and let me troll in peace.
Astrobytes: hahaha
magaiti: what's wrong with questions or clashes during contests?
magaiti: itsnot like you have to pay attention to them if you dont want to
Astrobytes: Don't worry, we're just moaning needlessly ;)
magaiti: figured as much
AntiSquid: well imagine someone bringing their harmonica at the cinema during the movie
AntiSquid: and playing it .
Theino: Are you comparing playing coc during a contest to playing a harmonica at the cinema?
Theino: I like it, the imagery make me laugh
MSmits: perfect analogy
MSmits: mowing the lawn of the soccer field during the world cup finals
Astrobytes: Actually reminded me of that video with a helmetless Darth Vader, only every sound he makes is from a harmonica.
MSmits: funny
MSmits: I suggested to a student he try to solve bender 4
MSmits: I didn't know only 41 out of 800+ people who tried it, solved it 100%
Astrobytes: Did he do it?
MSmits: I guess it's kinda hard :grin:
MSmits: still working on it
MSmits: he made a flowchart
Astrobytes: Yeah, it's not the easiest!
Astrobytes: Cool. At least he's gonna give it a shot
MSmits: maybe if i have time over the weekend I'll try to get 100%
MSmits: easy CPs
MSmits: well if i finish it that is
Astrobytes: It's been on my list for a while
kovi: there are tricky cases
MSmits: not if i get stuck :)
derjack: try space maze
MSmits: space maze not worth cp :(
Astrobytes: Ah yeah, XP only
derjack: who cares about cp
MSmits: well not you, you're just an alt
Astrobytes: lol
MSmits: derjack the testpony
derjack: AutomatonNN where is everypony
AutomatonNN: could not be there
Astrobytes: derpjack
MSmits: i did not know you have a penguin father Astrobytes
Astrobytes: Yes. An Adélie one at that.
MSmits: did you not mean feather?
Astrobytes: I did in the conversation where someone mistook it for 'father' yes.
MSmits: ohhh ok, yeah i think i was there, vaguely remember
MSmits: that was funny
derjack: hm?
Astrobytes: Yeah, don't remember who it was but it was funny.
MSmits: mmh says on mk's profile he is an android
MSmits: i should read the profiles more
MSmits: you learn a lot
AntiSquid: let's ban all alts
MSmits: is that what humans evolve into before we go up into space AntiSquid ?
MSmits: i am referring to your profile pic
MSmits: not sure, it's a small pic
Astrobytes: Thought it was a cat in a flying saucer.
MSmits: i was thinking it could be an evolved human, because of the text
MSmits: it doesnt say dogkind or catkind, it says mankind
derjack: womankind*
MSmits: any kind of man, woman <null>man, whatever
magaiti: hooman
MSmits: sure
MSmits: thats ferengi slang
MSmits: I got the ds9 reference
Astrobytes: haha yes MSmits
MSmits: I think i watched all 7 seasons of that 4 times now
Astrobytes: Gotta drag out the 'hoo' part
MSmits: ye
Astrobytes: I always begrudge watching the first couple of seasons, as they're fairly boring, but they do develop the story somewhat. Gets epic in the last few.
MSmits: yeah
derjack: sisko with hair? huh
UnnamedCodinGamer: MSmits, second in clobber using your method
MSmits: reminds me of babylon 5 a bit
MSmits: though thats more epic even
derjack: clobber method?
MSmits: gj UnnamedCodinGamer
UnnamedCodinGamer: nice job :)
Astrobytes: gratz UnnamedCodinGamer, strong bot
UnnamedCodinGamer: rollout method
UnnamedCodinGamer: it is using alien methods :)
MSmits: yeah I didnt mind sharing it really. There's no bells and whistles in my bot. I just did the bare minimum
MSmits: I expect more people to pass me
UnnamedCodinGamer: I do not feel comfortable
MSmits: get a better chair
MSmits: sometimes putting the monitor higher helps
UnnamedCodinGamer: just tested to see if higher simulation count helps
Astrobytes: :rofl:
MSmits: for clobber, you should really dive into the math
UnnamedCodinGamer: it seems so
UnnamedCodinGamer: I am just trying algorithm variations
MSmits: what i mean is, if you're going to invest in this game, dont bother doing anything other than that next.
MSmits: thats your bottleneck, not using math
MSmits: same with D&B
UnnamedCodinGamer: I like algorithms more than math
MSmits: without the math its top 10 barely
MSmits: most people dont use it, but people who do, become unbeatable by people who dont
UnnamedCodinGamer: makes sense
MSmits: the only two really mathy games afaik
MSmits: other board games are about finding the right search algorithm/eval/nn
MSmits: I liked it in D&B, but it also took loads of time, i dont want to invest that much into 1 game currently
MSmits: first i want to do bender 4 and nine mens morris
Astrobytes: Oh btw: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2103.04931.pdf
Astrobytes: If you didn't see it already.
Astrobytes: 2nd MCTS review, released on Monday
Astrobytes: (prev survey was the 2012 paper)
derjack: mcts survey?
Astrobytes: Yeah
Astrobytes: Thanks to Uljahn who posted it in discord #ru
derjack: eww you follow #ru?
BlaiseEbuth: da
Astrobytes: I check new posts in most channels. You know, FOMO and all that.
derjack: FOMO?
Astrobytes: ...
Astrobytes: Want me to google it for you too? smh
UnnamedCodinGamer: fear of missing out
derjack: youre using some weird acronyms
Astrobytes: ikr wtf
derjack: i didnt google fomo because i thought it was cg specific
ijnhhujhnh: hyybjyb
Astrobytes: Now that's just nonsense.
magaiti: lmgtfy
darkhorse64: re the clobber thread: I am unsure if math is the only way: 1- there are a few heuristics available 2 - I have noticed that endgames are quite deterministic (you have only a few moves that you can play in any order). I stumbled on this when writing the boss, I got more often than not beaten by the random bot and I had to increase the search depth to 10
darkhorse64: A good search with transpositions for the endgame should do well. Rn my MCTS predicts the outcome 10 to 15 plys before the end
Astrobytes: Shhh don't tell smits things like that. He'll have the endgames booked in an hour
AntiSquid: MSmits scarfield was adding cats and memes to avatars, he made this ... added it to support memes
darkhorse64: MSmits does not need me to google. Usually, he has read the papers before me. He even pays for them :relaxed:.
Astrobytes: hahaha, very true :D
AntiSquid: they are free if you are in academia
darkhorse64: The endgame comment is for free. I also used his advice for my rollouts (with a slightly less messy code)
Astrobytes: I think we've all shared useful info re. Clobber recently. Team effort in order to wreck each other.
darkhorse64: I made the best use of other people's tips
AntiSquid: i thought the end goal is to make bots that can surpass skynet
AntiSquid: that are better at taking over the world? ok my joke failed, time for AutomatonNN ping to clear chat
AutomatonNN: what does it mean with the player?
derjack: the ultimate goal is some bioengineering
AntiSquid: the bots redesigning humans?
derjack: or combining female human dna with cat dna
derjack: the possibilities are limitless
AntiSquid: i don't see the appeal in cat ears and cat like behaviour
AntiSquid: cats can be nasty
magaiti: boing-engineering, hmm
AntiSquid: so sexy https://imgur.com/uGms10W
HunterEhrenfeld: why did i click that...
AntiSquid: ya it's not anime, real life is ... different
derjack: then dont watch cats movie
derjack: its... unanny
derjack: c
AntiSquid: cats from Dr Monreau's island didn't look great either
nicola: Dr Moreau.
nicola: Not Monroe. ;)
AntiSquid: Doctrix Monroe
MSmits: I paid for *one* paper
MSmits: you guys are never letting that go are you ? :P
Astrobytes: Never :D
Passifi: So if I make a bot with ML and it then decides the best way to win is to destroy the other players lifes who's then to blame morally once he got them thrown into jail or killed ? I am asking for a friend
MSmits: :grin:
MSmits: ask recurse or jacek about nns
AntiSquid: why, they paid for papers too ?
Astrobytes: see previous comment
Passifi: I actually had this thought when I talked to some AI guy and he told me that neural networks already sometimes go on a tangent and start solving subproblems and it then hit me that a really smart bot would possibly just try and learn to cheat ? How would CodinGame react if that happens ? So many questions ;)
struct: how does a bot cheat?
struct: At least on CG
Passifi: he learns how to hack the back end and manipulates the outcome ?
AntiSquid: lol
AntiSquid: then every clash would have accidentally done this already by submitting bugged code
AntiSquid: clasher * is what i meant ...
MSmits: i dont think its possible to hack from the input/output scheme all CG puzzles/multis etc. use
MSmits: it would have to do something weird on compilation
Passifi: Not saying this will happen any time soon ;) Just found the idea that the AI would try to solve another problem to avoid the orignal one interesting. its something humans do all the time, after all often using up more resources for the secondary problem too ;)
MSmits: well actually Passifi
MSmits: it happens all the time
MSmits: if you create a physics simulation for example
MSmits: the NN will find your glitch
MSmits: and abuse it
MSmits: ML researchers run into it all the time
ijnhhujhnh: # target checkpoint 1
AntiSquid: it would find bugs maybe, but actually it aims to reach higher reward ... that's it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlOIHko8ySg do you refer to this video or what Passifi ?
Passifi: well that would be an example :)
AntiSquid: i am sure games on CG don't have such corner cases
MSmits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu56xVlZ40M
AntiSquid: not even double hulk is that bad
MSmits: best video for what you are talking about Passifi
MSmits: fun to watch
MSmits: wait thats the right subject but wrong video, sec
AntiSquid: why wrong video? those AI were exploiting the environment
MSmits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kopoLzvh5jY
MSmits: this onje
MSmits: no it's that crappy 2 min paper narrator
MSmits: you dont want to hear him
MSmits: this one is better
Astrobytes: lol
AntiSquid: he has amazing video ... MSmits hating accents again :(
MSmits: it's not an accent if you're speaking like a robot
MSmits: you can do that in any language
Astrobytes: Robotist
MSmits: sure, i'll take that
Astrobytes: :grin:
Passifi: Well the OpenAI video gives me such warm documentary vibes :)
MSmits: it's the same subject anyway, if you prefer the robot-speak it's fine :)
MSmits: i just cant listen to him for more than a minute before i get the urge to throw things
MSmits: i would just turn off the sound and do auto-subtitles
MSmits: because the content is super interesting
AntiSquid: MSmits do these guys sound like robots to you? curious https://youtu.be/Jwif_nU-rKE?t=829
MSmits: cant listen now, in the train, no headphones
MSmits: i'll listen to it later
MSmits: and possibly throw things
AntiSquid: just play it on loud speakers, if voice is robotic tell everyone your laptop is talking to you ... ez
MSmits: will do
MSmits: wait no
MSmits: at home i will do that
ijnhhujhnh: hi
derjack: be like those cool kids who have bt speakers and play it loud in buses
MSmits: people are already on edge in the train, because of covid
AntiSquid: derjack guess MSmits isn't cool anymore
derjack: anymore?
MSmits: I remember one time, before covid, I got into the train with a hoody and i had a cola in a plastic bottle and i opened it, lid exploded off. So many scared faces
AntiSquid: idk, i'd like to believe he used to be cool
AntiSquid: dutch soda bomber
MSmits: actually, I am at peak coolness. I was less cool in the past
Astrobytes: Smits is cooler than Bose-Einstein condensate, whatcha talking about
MSmits: thats really cool
MSmits: fyi
Astrobytes: Ultra cool
AntiSquid: i think trying to shower innocent pasangers in cola is cool, bit anti-social, but cool
MSmits: I said oops when it happened
MSmits: did not know what else to say
Astrobytes: In keeping with the temp I guess we shoudl say Kool
Astrobytes: *should
MSmits: I could have said: "dont worry, not a terroris"
AntiSquid: maybe it was a sarcastic sounding oops
MSmits: but thats what a terrorist would say
Astrobytes: That would have been twice as bad
MSmits: not sure if it was sarcastic. Sarcastic doesnt work that well when you're covered in cola
Passifi: I'm pretty sure realizing that a coke explosion doesn't kill anybody the terrorist would just hide his face in shame and say nothing
Astrobytes: MSticky
MSmits: well thats mostly what i did Passifi
MSmits: except for the oops
MSmits: surprised noone mentioned the fact that a physicist could have guessed the thing would explode
Astrobytes: Yeah but it's you though
Astrobytes: :P
MSmits: ah.. right
Passifi: a 4 year old child could have guessed that coke explodes
MSmits: mmh yeah
Passifi: don't need no degree for that
AntiSquid: Passifi the top can jump into someone's mouth while they yawn or are about to say something
Passifi: try putting mentos in it next time
Passifi: *the next time
kovi: lovely ai cheat video msmits...from a hungarian guy
Astrobytes: Yeah, give them something to really be afraid of
MSmits: I think it was like this. There was this after party work thing after a long day and they were serving cola. I wanted to go home but still get the free cola
Astrobytes: :rofl:
MSmits: there's usually water in the bottle
MSmits: kovi, do you mean the 6 min thing?
kovi: yes
MSmits: doesnt he sound more than hungarian to you?
MSmits: its not just an accent is it?
MSmits: it's robo-hungarian
Astrobytes: :laughing:
MSmits: maybe this is not the same guy, havent listened to this one yet, but 2 min papers always has this guy i think]
kovi: maybe reading it
kovi: i havent listened first
MSmits: ohh ok
AntiSquid: i think it's the intonation you find strange MSmits
MSmits: its so monotonous
darkhorse64: poor zolnai
MSmits: no variation at all
MSmits: thats why i say robotic
AntiSquid: the 2minpaper channel belongs to that guy
AntiSquid: karoly
MSmits: there's this guy edward witten, biggest guy in string theory
kovi: and sub/sentences are split with an equal delay
MSmits: go listen to him speak
MSmits: same thing
MSmits: i cant listen to him either
MSmits: kovi yeah
AntiSquid: https://discord.gg/jZD4x2R4 if you want to join his discord and inquire about unforgetable voice
kovi: looking back to further on the chat: mcts paper...is it "our" jacek within the authors?
MSmits: i think jacek is a talented amateur, but not sure
MSmits: dont think he wrote those
Astrobytes: No, I don't believe it is
struct: Is he an amateur?
MSmits: AntiSquid lol... i dont really want to insult this guy, it's mainly my issue :)
struct: Is he not mobile dev?
Astrobytes: Yes.
AntiSquid: oh that far back ... so did you click the cat girl picture too kovi ?
kovi: damn i missed that one
MSmits: wait are we talking about the aerodynamics paper?
MSmits: again?
Astrobytes: Nope.
MSmits: whew ok
AntiSquid: Monte Carlo Tree Search: A Review of RecentModifications and ApplicationsMaciej Świechowski∗, Konrad Godlewski†,Bartosz Sawicki‡, Jacek Mańdziuk§
MSmits: did Konrad die?
MSmits: :(
Astrobytes: Sorry, all I see is "schneep schneep shneepshneep scheep"
Astrobytes: MSmits :rofl:
Astrobytes: Bartosz too but it either happened twice to him or he came back.
MSmits: yeah whats up with that
darkhorse64: :upside_down:
AntiSquid: edward witten does sound a bit weird, but i wouldmn't call it robotic
MSmits: well just very monotonous also
MSmits: i am not a language expert, i am probably not using the right jargon
MSmits: this guy is amazing btw
MSmits: if you hear other string theorist talk about him it's like they worship the guy
AntiSquid: for edward witten it sounds like he makes guttural sounds, talks a bit through his nose ...
AntiSquid: i can't compare it to the other guy
MSmits: ah ok
MSmits: been a while since i heard him, but i got the same urge to throw things
MSmits: maybe for different reasons
Astrobytes: hahaha
Astrobytes: Witten's cool tho'
MSmits: yeah
AntiSquid: maybe masks help muffle the sounds for MSmits
MSmits: they sure do
MSmits: when colleagues talk to me through them i just nod and move on
MSmits: anyway, train arriving ttyl
Astrobytes: Must remember that one
Astrobytes: afk for a bit, back later
AntiSquid: https://imgur.com/a/BhdYGYC
AntiSquid: weird bug
jrke: lol
jrke: AUTO + MANUAL = ANNUAL
deoignition: guys would you rather code in assembly :heart_eyes: or python :poop:
jacek: yes
AntiSquid: as opposed to what ?
-oa-: Assembly is not available, bc codingame is my IDE
-oa-: so python
AntiSquid: it's rather in ass or py than x language he didn't mention !
-oa-: we need answers
TBali: why the luxury of assembly when we could do machine language directly?
-oa-: thats the attitude
-oa-: i prefer punch cards
AntiSquid: and 24 hours wait to see if your code even compiled
TBali: you mean executed? no need to compile.
AntiSquid: yes
TBali: could be an interesting sideproject for CG, but with much simpler puzzles only. And I don't think too high attendance could be reached.
-oa-: could make a game based on little man computer or something similar
TBali: Not in line the 'target the broad audience' mission
BlaiseEbuth: Not even 5% would be interested... :(
JLukeSkywalker: i love it when someone elses bot pushes you up into the next league
jacek: smits may like the board https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sannin_shogi
AntiSquid: lol
JLukeSkywalker: squid, i think it was you and jumpmaster that pushed my c4 bot up to wood 1
JLukeSkywalker: ty
AntiSquid: c4 ?
JLukeSkywalker: connect 4
AntiSquid: ah
jacek: :bomb:
JLukeSkywalker: ^^
AntiSquid: print(random.choice(actionz))
AntiSquid: my bot
JLukeSkywalker: lol
AntiSquid: jump is wrecking boss
AntiSquid: and randomly losing to me
jacek: maybe he'll push you
AntiSquid: he has a bungee jump avatar
AntiSquid: he pushed me
AntiSquid: :D
AntiSquid: Automaton2000 bow to my skillz
Automaton2000: u can just switch to c#
AntiSquid: i won't
JLukeSkywalker: mine is pretty odd rn, checks for win, then blocks opponents win, otherwise picks random move that doesnt let the opponent win next turn
JLukeSkywalker: so most moves are still random
AntiSquid: so much hard work only to get same wood league as me
JLukeSkywalker: im in 1
AntiSquid: me too
JLukeSkywalker: lol, did he just push you up over the boss too?
AntiSquid: reach chat history
AntiSquid: read *
JLukeSkywalker: gross, reading
AntiSquid: i said it was skillz
jacek: oh i lost pots by winning with such noob
AntiSquid: looks like game engine recognizes luck for what it is, learn to play don't rely on luck maybe ?
derjack: i pushed big by using random bot
derjack: well not so random, it uses last available action
JLukeSkywalker: last action might actually be better than full random in connect 4 because would win you a column
JLukeSkywalker: if opponent is full random
derjack: always losing to boss yet im above him
derjack: meh need to break bot
darkhorse64: That boss is too easy. Let me rewrite it
JLukeSkywalker: yeah, everyone is flying out of wood 2 today
darkhorse64: derjack: trying to reach earth center ?
JLukeSkywalker: lol
JLukeSkywalker: welcome
derjack: hello new here, were dads
Shabari: where i want to start to code
JLukeSkywalker: i would just follow the quests on that home page
Shabari: where to start coding
JLukeSkywalker: have you coded before?
derjack: descent, mars lander 1, coding strickes back...
derjack: :notebook: :soccer:
Shabari: i know some basic about python
Shabari: i came here to learn code
jacek: https://www.codingame.com/training/easy/the-descent
AntiSquid: https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming/botters-of-the-galaxy start here Shabari
UnnamedCodinGamer: hm, here is not exactly the place for learning
AntiSquid: press JOIN and hit submit on that link, good start Shadow25
AntiSquid: Shabari
AntiSquid: no problemo
JLukeSkywalker: i mean, i would learn from a site like this if i was starting out. I think if he can solve some easy puzzles, this site should be fine
UnnamedCodinGamer: I would learn some basic algorithms first
UnnamedCodinGamer: then come here and practice them
Shabari: any other website to learn coding
Shabari: where you learn those algorithms
UnnamedCodinGamer: I used books, youtube tutorials
JLukeSkywalker: I just started with a site like this, and when you hit an algorithm you need and dont know, look it up online or books
Shabari: youtube channel name plz
JLukeSkywalker: there are infinite
UnnamedCodinGamer: there are many (some good some not so much)
UnnamedCodinGamer: you have to know what to look for first
Shabari: plz say any youtube channel to learn
UnnamedCodinGamer: pick an algorithm, read about it in a book, if you do not understand it, go to youtube or google it
UnnamedCodinGamer: this is what I do
AntiSquid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhDJNfV7hjk
jacek: ?
AntiSquid: any youtube channel
JLukeSkywalker: yeah, just search what you want to learn, and pick a random channel until you find one you like
AntiSquid: hey gaiz i knew google shitz for me plz
AntiSquid: this guy teaches coding Shabari : https://youtu.be/3k4kdkW0_9E?t=652
JLukeSkywalker: I teach coding
JLukeSkywalker: just not on youtube tho
JLukeSkywalker: i hate computers
jacek: oO
JLukeSkywalker: whiteboard >> youtube
jacek: i dont have whiteboard at home
JLukeSkywalker: sharpie + mirror?
JLukeSkywalker: ur mom or wife will love you forever for it
jacek: red sharpie?
JLukeSkywalker: that would work
JLukeSkywalker: somehow my c4 checkWin misses it every now and then, but I cant debug it bc everyone is random
AntiSquid: sure blame it on skilled players
JLukeSkywalker: ^^
JLukeSkywalker: replays in same conditions, game changes drastically and doesnt have the error im looking for
JLukeSkywalker: REEEE
jacek: oh my
jacek: so [solved]?
JLukeSkywalker: cant even find it
JLukeSkywalker: it only happens in list battles
JLukeSkywalker: big beat me in the list, just manually played him 100 times and didnt lose once
jacek: lucky eh
JLukeSkywalker: it broke my win check algo
JLukeSkywalker: but i cant replicate it to try to fix it
JLukeSkywalker: gonna have to just start from scratch
jacek: linux from scratch
JLukeSkywalker: did a small 16b os from scratch back in college
JLukeSkywalker: was actually kind of fun
JLukeSkywalker: final project was to give a power point type presentation using your os
KelvinAndHubbles: for the earlier conversation, if you want to see some interesting comp sci youtube stuff check o
KelvinAndHubbles: out 2 minute papers*
jacek: o my
Scarfield: 2 min papersoccer
Astrobytes: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Astrobytes: Clobbering F****** clobberating clobbertrons
Scarfield: what up?
Astrobytes: Everyone elses clobber but and not mine :P
Astrobytes: *bot
Scarfield: submitting the wrong one mayhaps? and i know the feeling, my chess bot likes to try h1h1 atm xD
Astrobytes: It seemed to be working well before I submitted it...
Astrobytes: Aha! Never submit.
Astrobytes: oh lol, sounds like you have something round the way or no move
Astrobytes: My clobber bot was quite fond of a1a1 for a while
Scarfield: fixed something else, just got this bug now, but somehow i point to an unset node in some cases
Astrobytes: that's your h1h1. Time to debug!
jacek: h1h1? meh
Scarfield: h1h1q would be a nice move
Astrobytes: :D
jacek: good enough for production then
ShortBaited: #GoodNightOVH lmao
Adiz983: Who are kids in this chat log
Astrobytes: trictrac: some improvement! Good job. It's like running into a brick wall, however!
AntiSquid: will never know since he's already deleted lol
jacek: hm?
trictrac: my first MCTS working
kovi: mcts tryangle?
Scarfield: :muscle:
Astrobytes: trictrac: If you're joining the MCTS then I am too
trictrac: clobber
trictrac: It's quite impossible to have a good eval for minmax @ clobber
Astrobytes: I fear without the correct heuristics (and there may be some) alphabeta will nto work here
kovi: you minimaxed bandas/uttt?
Astrobytes: Yes trictrac, exactly
trictrac: yes all my bot are minmax today
jacek: :scream:
Astrobytes: Apart from Clobber
kovi: nice, nn you have then :)
trictrac: yes apart clobber !
Astrobytes: :)
jacek: nn?
kovi: between his ears
Astrobytes: trictrac is the alphabeta master kovi
Scarfield: the alpha and omega
kovi: is there an alphbeta0 nn based minmax pruning?
mcts
Astrobytes: I had some success in alphabeta with Clobber after TT and some search window modifications but it cannot compete without more eval heuristics. If trictrac concedes and switches to MCTS, I will do this also
kovi: im most interested in bandas
jacek: there are some NN-based moves ordering prototypes. chess folks are experimenting with nn-based nodes pruning
Astrobytes: Does SF do something with that?
jacek: yeah, sf guys experiment with that
Astrobytes: Yeah, I thought I read that somewhere
jacek: you have razoring, LMR etc. based on some rules. why not let the NN figure those out
Astrobytes: Yes, prime candidates for nn
Astrobytes: Why bandas kovi?
kovi: that seemed without strong heuristics. but maybe trictrac found one
trictrac: @ bandas, the coef for the eval are learned
kovi: nice
Astrobytes: trictrac: nn or probcut?
trictrac: perceptron : nn @ one layer
Astrobytes: Yep, cool. Thanks :)
AntiSquid: perceptron = you can adjust the numbers in your conditions by hand and submit spam :P
AntiSquid: or use brutal tester
Scarfield: figured out the h1h1 bug, and its working, but still i 7 point leap up to Jachess
jacek: AntiSquid n-tuples is also perceptron. good luck adjust that by hand
trictrac: Antisquid, it depends of the number of coef to tune !!! It can take years of processing power @ CG with spam submit
jacek: msmits would be: "hold my beer"
struct: hi
Scarfield: hey
Astrobytes: hi struct
AntiSquid: bruteforce jacek
Scarfield: if you are a brute, will doing it by hand be bruteforce :thinking:
AntiSquid: why by hand ?
Astrobytes: ffs jacek could you not just have left me at 6/7
JohnnyHotBody: Hello:smiley::wave:
k2xl: where can we send in feature requests/suggestions for clash of code stuff?
jacek: you mean contribute?
jacek: im so dumb... the reason clobber nn didnt learn at all was i gave it faulty target
Astrobytes: jacek: Faulty target?
jacek: for proven positions i always gave it -1
jacek: instead of wins = 1 and loses = -1
Astrobytes: :clap:
AntiSquid: k2xl https://imgur.com/a/3F41gb6
jacek: :?
Astrobytes: wth does that have to do with feature requests/suggestions for coc?
AntiSquid: huh? why did i need to answer coc stuff ? answer forums k2xl ...
AntiSquid: do *
jacek: because youre the helpful mod
Astrobytes: Then what am I jacek?
MSmits: The spawn of a penguin
Astrobytes: :rofl:
Astrobytes: You've been on good form today MSmits
MSmits: thanks :)
AntiSquid: reference to pengu game?
MSmits: read Astrobytes profile
MSmits: one time he said in the chat he has a penguin feather
MSmits: and someone misread it
MSmits: dont remember who, could be me
MSmits: was funny anyway
Astrobytes: It may have been you, but I don't remember either.
Astrobytes: Oh feck, penguins, totally forgot about that game.
Astrobytes: I need a secretary or something.
MSmits: same, its a cool game, so much else to do
AntiSquid: it's ok no need to check on me, i am fine
MSmits: Astrobytes is this a British thing, does he want us to check on him?
Astrobytes: I have no idea what AntiSquid is referring to
MSmits: allright gonna go back to work, got a deadline tomorrow. Have to write some stuff
MSmits: gn in advance
Scarfield: gn
Astrobytes: gn MSmits, good luck with the stuff :)
Astrobytes: aCat made a chess-based Solo Game, and linked to the chess multi in the statement
AntiSquid: gn8
AntiSquid: so book of chess endings ! :O
AntiSquid: hm. or not
Astrobytes: Are you saying gn to Smits or us UnnamedCodinGamer?
Astrobytes: Ah
Astrobytes: AntiSquid no, it's quite specific
UnnamedCodinGamer: I am looking at connect4 bitboards
AntiSquid: ya noticed afterwards
Astrobytes: :)
UnnamedCodinGamer: or better said looking for :)
Astrobytes: UnnamedCodinGamer: Once I switch to MCTS I am coming for you in Clobber :P
UnnamedCodinGamer: you are welcome
UnnamedCodinGamer: I do not intend to try new things for now
Astrobytes: I tried a bunch of new things in a/b minimax that's for sure
UnnamedCodinGamer: I want to try to implement what I learned on another game
Scarfield: but have you done it without using recursion-resmursion :p
Astrobytes: I did not use ClobberfieldScarfomax no
UnnamedCodinGamer: minimax seems to do bad in clobber
k2xl: Suggestion (to any devs for codingame), huge fan of the site. Love the clash of code. It would be cool if when mousing over a user's avatar that it showed their clash of code leaderboard ranking (when playing clash of code)
Astrobytes: Yes UnnamedCodinGamer, neither trictrac nor myself have come up with many viable heuristics for the evaluation function
Astrobytes: So any enhancements are only effective to a small degree
AntiSquid: see ? i answered that's best to post on forums, no effect
UnnamedCodinGamer: this seems like a lot of coding
Astrobytes: TTs, altering search windows, move ordering with various methods
Astrobytes: UnnamedCodinGamer: Connect4?
UnnamedCodinGamer: maybe some pruning would help, but I guess you will need the maths stuff that MSmits mentioned multiple times
UnnamedCodinGamer: yes I am looking at connect4
UnnamedCodinGamer: I want to start with the bitboards
Astrobytes: Well the move ordering, TTs and search window alterations all contribute to pruning. But without a good eval it's not much use against stronger MCTS bots. There are heuristics but I have yet to understand the paper, if I'm totally honest.
Astrobytes: re Connect4: it's just the usual uint64 bitboards?
UnnamedCodinGamer: yes it should be
UnnamedCodinGamer: there are 63 cells
Astrobytes: yeah, just mask off the appropriate cells and you're good to go
UnnamedCodinGamer: I just started with bitboards and admittedly clobber was easy
UnnamedCodinGamer: this seems more complicated
Astrobytes: Since i'm a little tired atm I won't go into much detail but there are a bunch on intrinsic functions you can use to make life easier
Astrobytes: *a bunch of
UnnamedCodinGamer: I will figure it out
Astrobytes: Not just figure it out, talk about it in chat tomorrow
UnnamedCodinGamer: go get some rest
Astrobytes: There's a whole load of ways to do this stuff, Smits is a good one to ask
Astrobytes: Yes, gn UnnamedCodinGamer and everyone else
Scarfield: gn
UnnamedCodinGamer: I will ask if I see that my implementation is slow (which it probably will)
Astrobytes: We try to help each other get the best bots as possible to wreck each other with, like I said earlier :) gn!
k2xl: AntiSquid sorry, i missed your suggestion about the forums. i shared on the forums just now. thanks
AntiSquid: :thumbsup:
ZarthaxX: Astrobytes you sound adorable
Nachosauce: I know a tiny bit, certainly no expert though
BigDo: I need a python 3 master.
creeperZnation4: what for?
BigDo: i really need to improve my python3
void_main_sucks: are interpreted languages real programming languages
Binary_Sky: i code only in python for clash of code but I don't have lots of experience
creeperZnation4: Then I would suggest looking at other python3 submissions in gamemodes like clash of code or other programming things
creeperZnation4: you'd be surprised to see how much you'll pick up XD
Binary_Sky: i can only build ios app
Nachosauce: I'm aiming for top 1% global this weekend :D I have no idea how I'm even getting close but hey I'll take it
Wontonimo: Nachosauce good luck!
Wontonimo: check your DM
Lucky45: hello fellow humans
AGroatEatingGoat: Lol, I misread the problem
Binary_Sky: is c# good for clash of code