Cybersick: I love you
Cybersick: :heart_eyes:
Angelburgie22: wrong chat dude
N_Flamel: lmao
N_Flamel: lmao
v1nam: lol
henriq-88: Is it possible to avoid certain clashes? Don't like the shortest code ones, makes me write terrible code lol
zhoubou: Not on public ones, no.
Totomns: in shortest you have time to practice languages like ruby, python, js, or bash
Totomns: there is a code golf section on stackexchange, you should look
Ludwigdn: ^ +1
kovi: 1st uttt game won vs ka'liso timeout
karliso: nice
kovi: nice would be a real vs. top2
kovi: real win
kovi: and there it is!
DomiKo: wow GG
kovi: thx
DomiKo: top10 in such a short time very nice
Angecide: wow kovi ur bot suddenly got very strong
kovi: fixed a bug in mcts yesterday
and now some heurstics work
eulerscheZahl: now poor smits has to amend his book
kovi: yay, vs. rebless as well
Angecide: do you do any books?
kovi: no
DomiKo: heurstics are teccles and that one with not giving free move?
kovi: yes
kovi: another one, so karliso back to #1
Angecide: do you do rollout from each expanded children?
Angecide: casue the numbers look low, I guess maybe just very good heuristics
kovi: only if the same parent is chisen
kovi: almost 50% vs top2, wtf
MSmits: gj kovi
MSmits: btw, contrary to popular belief, books do almost nothing in uttt, unless someone else uses it and you hardcounter them
MSmits: or someone is very deterministic and thus also counterable
MSmits: I tested my bot vs top 10 without any book and it basically does 40% win vs top 2, 50% vs tomatoes and > 50% below
Angecide: interesting, I imagined if you always encounter the same openings, perhaps it could be helpful, but I can see how just using faster bot + heuristics can achieve the same
MSmits: most of the action happens due to mistakes after ply 20 I believe
MSmits: the only way to make a book go that deep is to have an opponent that is very predictable
MSmits: there was a book war on uttt for a while, i won that and now everyone stopped using them, more or less
MSmits: and we're all better for it :)
MSmits: I guess miarem still has one, but it's not countering anyone anymore because all the bot versions it countered are gone
kovi: top10 was lucky. leaderboard of 2 game inparity, still depends on fast early advancement. if i reach top20 i can get 1:1 vs. top10 and reach high.
i still resubmit because i have enough new ideas. i am thinking about some weaken-teccles thing. also i still wasnt able to enable the wider win position assessment
MSmits: what do you mean weaken-teccles?
MSmits: like... capping it to early game ?>
MSmits: that's probably wise
kovi: currently i give up center a lot as p2
MSmits: also... i wouldn't worry so much about the submit. It really is not very reliable. Set up a CG bench test pool. Even if you use the same number of games as a submit, the test will be better because you don't waste games vs weaker players
MSmits: so you wouldnt even be taxing the server any worse than you do now
MSmits: giving up the center as p2 is not necessarily a bad thing
MSmits: p1 already has a huge advantage there
MSmits: the sacrifices you need to make to still win in the center might not be worth it
MSmits: In general, losing miniboards can be a good thing if the opponent needed to play far more squares there than you did
MSmits: (means he has less elsewhere)
kovi: valid points
MSmits: it depends a lot on the game too... uttt is hard to analyze as a human
kovi: escpecially after a week
MSmits: a week?
MSmits: oh you mean you've played uttt for a week?
kovi: i start it a week ago. deliberately skipping all chatting before
MSmits: ahh ok
RachitSingh: hi all
RachitSingh: I am here to learn python and get expertise in it
MSmits: well you can get into uttt fairly quickly. It has serious diminishing returns though
MSmits: RachitSingh welcome
kovi: hello RachitSingh
MSmits: you did pretty well i'd say kovi, comparable to how quickly karliso got good
RachitSingh: greetings and thanks
MSmits: cant speak for my own speed at this, i couldnt even code very well when i started this. It's a good starter multi
kovi: well, i have switched to uttt to make my mcts working. not sure if i want to finetune it more than top10
MSmits: well it's pretty addictive and the fact that it keeps coming up in chat risks drawing you back in
MSmits: but it's probably better not to get stuck on it
kovi: true. for most contest it is easier to give up after contest ends and spending a few days
MSmits: kovi, did you use a lookup for the big board? Like a 18 bit?
MSmits: I am trying to cut down on lookups, but i wonder if it's worth turning that one into a calculated value instead of looking it up
kovi: currently i use two lookups for global
MSmits: ok so, lookup p1, lookup p2
MSmits: that works I suppose
kovi: right...actually three
kovi: p1, p2, done
MSmits: ah
kovi: not utilizing draw yet
MSmits: I have a single lookup for this
kovi: (could be done - p1-p2)
MSmits: uint8_t bigBoardStatus[65536];
kovi: makes sense
MSmits: it's 18 bit, but needs 2 bit per result
MSmits: i mean 2 out of the uint8_t, so one lookup is actually 4 lookups out of which i shift 1 result
MSmits: makes it smaller
MSmits: you can do more complicated stuff in the lookup this way, like count drawn boards and such
kovi: i havent spent much on optimizing, but there seems to be single chokepoint
MSmits: what is it?
kovi: no single point
kovi: sorry
MSmits: no right
MSmits: you're right
MSmits: many little things
kovi: playout reach select/expand cost
MSmits: the big board lookup is about 10% of the total runtime though
MSmits: for me
MSmits: but it does a lot so...
kovi: keep single board heuristic reduced the cost of 9table action collection
MSmits: 9table action?
MSmits: whats that?
kovi: giving free pick
MSmits: oh ok
MSmits: yeah thats an expensive part
MSmits: one you can optimize though
MSmits: and there's 2 main ways to random too
MSmits: single random with loop or double random (random board, random square)
MSmits: double random is faster, but it always reduced my winrate a little bit
kovi: i know, i may add that
even thought it is not correct
MSmits: could be different for everyone though, as with a lot of uttt things. Stuff interacts
MSmits: best to try it yourself
EliteDaMyth: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/15704147627e6fd27076e30a8dd8ddcf940dbf1
MSmits: gotta go for a bit, hf
FunPlanet: is there a codingame api? (suppose not)
LeeHari: no
eulerscheZahl: yes
eulerscheZahl: but not documented
eulerscheZahl: unofficial: https://pypi.org/project/codingame/
eulerscheZahl: how to get the requests manually: https://www.codingame.com/playgrounds/53705/contest-tools-and-workflow/the-codingame-api
MetehanBayraktar: guys do you know how to print like this in c++ /// 1 2 3 4/// I mean with spaces ?
MetehanBayraktar: not like cout << 1 << " "<< 2
MetehanBayraktar: I mean output an array
MetehanBayraktar: int a [4] = {1,2,3,4} how to output this like 1 2 3 4 without space at the end
Andriamanitra: a for loop is probably your best bet
eulerscheZahl: cout << a[0]
for (int i = 1; i < 4; i++) cout << " " << a[i];
MetehanBayraktar: man thats happen space at the end
MetehanBayraktar: hmm I understand what you mean ok thank you
eulerscheZahl: much easier in other languages
eulerscheZahl: like ' '.join(array) in python
eulerscheZahl: or string.Join(" ", array) in C#
Andriamanitra: or array*" " in ruby
ErrorRazor: Did someone get 100% in this puzzle? https://www.codingame.com/training/easy/chuck-norris
Andriamanitra: not yet but give me 4 minutes
1400179: No I got 0 0 00 00%
ErrorRazor: lol
ErrorRazor: I was just wondering if you could explain this part in the expected output: "0 000000 0 0000"
Maxim251: How I can resize wondows, that I can see game info and standard output ?
ErrorRazor: Looks like two consecutive blocks of ones to me
Maxim251: I can move midlle one to left and right, but I cant move down, up..
ErrorRazor: You can expand the game info window
Maxim251: Oh yes, I see...
Maxim251: and window for the code? I am on laptop and I dont see to much in coding window
ErrorRazor: Yeah that can be expanded as well
Maxim251: but I want keep game info and window code..
Maxim251: I want move only bottom part litlle more to the bottom
Andriamanitra: @ErrorRazor i don't see "0 000000 0 0000" anywhere in the expected outputs
ErrorRazor: Test case 4
zhoubou: >>> testcase.find("0 000000 0 0000")
-1
ErrorRazor: I wonder why it shows this then https://prnt.sc/xxfjci
zhoubou: Is that your debug output?
ErrorRazor: https://prnt.sc/xxfkhw
zhoubou: Weird
ErrorRazor: Very weird
Andriamanitra: which test case is it?
ErrorRazor: 4
zhoubou: 4
ErrorRazor: I think it also shows my output wrong
ErrorRazor: nvm
Maxim251: how I can stop program after first line? that game will not play while loop? Is that posible
zhoubou: exit()?
zhoubou: In Python
Maxim251: C++
zhoubou: I think C++ has exit too
Maxim251: Ok, I check
Sony541: if it's part of "main" function you can use "return"
Maxim251: No call function exit(). I think this is not that
esfes: dude
esfes: the one that needed help with the cuck norris problem
Maxim251: I can Try... But in main function there is while loop,
esfes: do you still need help?
Andriamanitra: there definitely is exit() function in c++, might need to include stdlib.h though
Sony541: return will still work in "while" loop :)
esfes: it should be in a function tho
esfes: return must be in a function
Sony541: Yeah, he said it's the case
esfes: oh, i didn't read that lol
esfes: sorry
ErrorRazor: esfes yeah I'm still here
esfes: do you need help?
Maxim251: No game is still running.
esfes: wdym?
ErrorRazor: Well, I was just wondering why the expected output is displayed incorrectly
esfes: wrong person lol
Westicles: exit(1);
zhoubou: Correct response though esfes :P
Sony541: Yeah, or "return 0;" :)
esfes: remember that it expects a 7 bit binary representation
Sony541: Didn't write on C++ for 7 years :D
zhoubou: Yeah, but why is the expected output wrong? esfes
esfes: you must append 0 before to make it a 7 bit if its can be represented in less bits
esfes: its not wrong for me it worked
zhoubou: Look at his screenshot https://prnt.sc/xxfkhw
ErrorRazor: It's not wrong, the IDE shows it wrong
Maxim251: IS still running, Ok never mind, I will do like olways, stop playing and rewind messages to beginning
esfes: show me your code
Maxim251: Thanks for help
esfes: zhoubou
Andriamanitra: @Maxim251 oh i understand what you were trying to do now, the game won't stop even if your code stops, i don't think there's any way to abort a game mid-way through
zhoubou: ? esfes
esfes: send a screen shot of your game
zhoubou: My code works fine
esfes: of your code*
esfes: you sure?
zhoubou: Yeah, it passes all test cases
ErrorRazor: That screen shot was from me
esfes: oh lol
esfes: Error show your code please
zhoubou: There is something wrong with your binary conversion I reckon
zhoubou: But I don't get why expected output is wrong
ErrorRazor: Yeah I know my solution is wrong
ErrorRazor: It's not the point
esfes: what was the problem?
esfes: if the solution is wrong it would show a problem with your answer
zhoubou: It's showing a wrong solution
esfes: the expected output is not wrong
esfes: how do you know that?
zhoubou: As per screenshot
struct: it is wrong
ErrorRazor: It's not? 2 other people checked and got a different expected output
ErrorRazor: Now 3
esfes: how did you identified the wrong part?
zhoubou: There are 2 strings of 1s
struct: There is a red circle on it
zhoubou: And I copy pasted a real testcase and used str.find, and it didn't find what was in the screenshotž
zhoubou: screenshot*
esfes: what if you copy his solution and check on your ide
esfes: and if its right he will just submit
zhoubou: Hmm?
esfes: you are getting the right test output right?
zhoubou: Yeah
esfes: copy his code test if its right and if it is he will just submit
esfes: it tests server side before confirming the solution at the submit point
ErrorRazor: Well here's my code if you want to try to reproduce it https://pastebin.com/8c7pxGC5
ErrorRazor: I know it's long
esfes: its wrong at the end for me too
zhoubou: Oh I can reproduce it
zhoubou: It's language related then
zhoubou: Or something
esfes: or maybe the is a bug with longer strings
zhoubou: And the testcase is different...
esfes: wdym?
zhoubou: Let me see one more time
zhoubou: Oh nvm
esfes: i think there is a bug that only shows on longer strings
esfes: or there is a bug with the c++ checker
ErrorRazor: When I search for that part with ctrl+f, it doesn't find it in my console output
esfes: compile that program on your pc
esfes: and check the string
esfes: send us the string when you get the output on your pc
esfes: we will check it
zhoubou: Oh you're right, it isn't in stdin
zhoubou: stdout*
esfes: wdym?
zhoubou: It isn't printed, but it's shown as his solution
esfes: wdym it isn't printed?
ErrorRazor: By my program
esfes: cout is a print in c++?
esfes: i am a noob when it comes to c++
ErrorRazor: Yeah stands for character output
esfes: so it is printed right?
esfes: or am i missing something?
ChristianPR: ive just started on codinggame, Just beat the Othello bot and im still in league 2? how do I move up?
ChristianPR: or does it take time?
ErrorRazor: If you've submitted your code and you got first place, then you just need to wait
ChristianPR: cool, thanks
ErrorRazor: Anyway, I'm gonna go get groceries. Don't lose your sanity over this bug guys, the puzzle still works, only the error is displayed incorrectly
esfes: try to run it on your pc
esfes: like compile it
struct: ChristianPR you need to be above the boss
struct: Its not easy
ChristianPR: hmmm, how come there are lots in league 1 but lower than the bot?
struct: Their bot is not better than the boss
struct: Stronger bots get promoted
ChristianPR: o i thought i just needed to beat the boss hahah
jacek: oh my
jacek: maybe next week will be othello puzzle :V
eulerscheZahl: 1 minute left for blockout
eulerscheZahl: hurry up!
kovi: not approved?
jacek: needs 2 approves
eulerscheZahl: nope
kovi: omg
jacek: and i dont have 20lvl on my alt
eulerscheZahl: on a sidenote i'm having fun with topcoder this time
eulerscheZahl: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6b/b0/04/6bb00405fb6d769f3f3eca3da46c23f3.jpg
eulerscheZahl: wait what?
PatrickMcGinnisII: eulerscheZahl, ha
eulerscheZahl: i was kidding with the hurry up
kovi: too bad :)
PatrickMcGinnisII: it did say 1 minute
eulerscheZahl: oh, I forgot the cover image
kovi: duh, who approved that without ci
kovi: another swap in top1-2
PatrickMcGinnisII: illedan's fault
eulerscheZahl: join us on topcoder, we swap every few minutes
eulerscheZahl: something is wrong with the platform
kovi: still?
eulerscheZahl: "Thank you both. Yes it could be a problem with multiple testing machines. We will look into it."
and that guy from topcoder could start at CG right away
kovi: wow, top3?
eulerscheZahl: i think siman is overrated atm, that submit had like 80 points before
eulerscheZahl: weird system
eulerscheZahl: and still 3 days to go
Angecide: I am a bit confused about topcoder, which games/puzzles are u working on and which leaderboard?
jacek: jewel
eulerscheZahl: leaderboard: https://www.topcoder.com/challenges/b846362a-218e-4a3d-b86c-3d38f472e199?tab=submissions
eulerscheZahl: task: https://imgur.com/a/myiwKh2
eulerscheZahl: swap any 2 cells. 3 in a row (not diagonally) remove that row and can cause a chain reaction
eulerscheZahl: points for long lasting chains and low rows
Angecide: ohh that looks interesting
kovi: bugged relative scoring? (happened a lot with the "new" - two years old system)
eulerscheZahl: yeah, it's their relative scoring again. not updating the total best properly, thus giving wrong partial scores
JLukeSkywalker: what do i do if i made a clash, it got approved, then someone copy-pasted it and got theirs approved a couple days later?
JLukeSkywalker: do we just let both exist?
eulerscheZahl: real 1-1 copy-paste?
jacek: oO
eulerscheZahl: the only thing we can do is getting staff involved. the question: is it worth bothering them for it?
jacek: for the 5%?
kovi: anyone using something different than uct? maybe something faster?
Angecide: u mean like a different equation or algorithm?
jacek: do you do lookup table for your log and sqrt?
struct: is the lookup even worth it?
kovi: first try failed on too big numbers
MSmits: I used to do lookup table and I never succeeded in making it faster without that. But I threw it away anyway.
MSmits: mostly because i had to cap my rollouts
MSmits: it's just annoying
jacek: oO
MSmits: kovi there are many different ways to change the selection mechanism a little bit. Never seen much of an effect in uttt
jacek: and i never did UCB-tuned for example
MSmits: i just use basic uct
kovi: yeah, i just noticed that sqrt is a chokepoint now
jacek: math formula :unamused:
jacek: sqrt has its own instruction
MSmits: oh kovi, sec, there's a way to speed that up if you havent already
Angecide: u can do sqrtf instead of sqrf, keeping it as float instead of double, I think that performes faster
kovi: i just did that :)
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/3da0b2e0-c5b6-4202-b881-b2539e2f2edd
MSmits: thats what i do in othello, not in uttt because i add a bonus to value, so it doesnt work then
MSmits: I use these as well:
MSmits: inline float fastlogf(const float& x) { union { float f; uint32_t i; } vx = { x }; float y = vx.i; y *= 8.2629582881927490e-8f; return(y - 87.989971088f); }
inline float fastsqrtf(const float& x) { union { int i; float x; }u; u.x = x; u.i = (1 << 29) + (u.i >> 1) - (1 << 22); return(u.x); }
inline float rsqrt_fast(float x) { return _mm_cvtss_f32(_mm_rsqrt_ss(_mm_set_ss(x))); }
MSmits: it's not my code so i dont mind sharing
kovi: oh, interesting
MSmits: just some crap off stack overflow or some other google
MSmits: it is just a tiny bit slower than caching your sqrts :P
MSmits: for me it was anyway
MSmits: oh and using AVX to calculate 8 sqrts in parallel didnt help me either
MSmits: in case you wanted to try that
kovi: i havent thought about that
kovi: i used a big array for vparent, vchild pairs
kovi: calculation the whole formula at once
kovi: but it was too big
1400179: Feels like 2019 again
MSmits: well new people keep trying the game so it's gonna keep coming up reCurse :)
jacek: just before final episode of mlp?
Angecide: 2019 was the peak of uttt?
1400179: Dunno, could be 2018 too, time flies
MSmits: nah uttt peaks several times a year
kovi: yeah, sorry as i said today...i totally tried to avoid uttt discussions all along
MSmits: it's just someone starts talking about it and then a bunch of players join in
1400179: Wasn't complaining actually, sorry it seemed that way
MSmits: it's fine kovi, don't worry about it
jacek: but you alawys complained about uttt
MSmits: dont bite reCurse :P
kovi: at least with all these resubmit, it seem that recurse is better vs. me than karliso
MSmits: the other way around for me it seems
1400179: A boost working my way? No way
kovi: and i might push msmits to #3
MSmits: let me strip my book and resubmit, it's not like there's any point to it now
MSmits: dont think its doing anything
MSmits: think this is the right version
MSmits: damn those submits are fast
MSmits: I am used to community submits
MSmits: oh nvm it's the 10x + swap
MSmits: that makes it seem fast
jacek: community?
MSmits: contrib
jacek: uttt is contrib?
MSmits: no, thats why it surprised me the games came so fast
MSmits: i havent submitted a non-contrib for a long time
kovi: wow, i badly hurt jacek placement
jacek: i just resubmited
kovi: oh, nvm
MSmits: good... more games
jacek: now lets csb do the promotion
MSmits: dont touch csb!
MSmits: it will wreck the server :P
MSmits: uttt games are weird in that a draw + win is just as good as win + win
MSmits: with swaps i mean
reCurse: How is that weird
MSmits: it's not wrong i mean
MSmits: it looks weird
MSmits: i guess with the older games, swaps were more common, like in tron
reCurse: You mean back when they were trying? :P
reCurse: Sorry lost my zen
MSmits: the good old days :)
jacek: no longer amd?
jacek: you bought that intel?
reCurse: Wonder if you ever lose your trolling
MSmits: doubt it
eulerscheZahl: a worthy follower of Cyberpunk
struct: new intel seems to be good for the winter
reCurse: Besides gotta keep some energy for tomorrow :p
jacek: hm?
MSmits: it's not cyberpunk, jacek does not fill the right side of my screen
eulerscheZahl: true, no flooding
eulerscheZahl: and jacek doesn't even know cyberpunk, does he?
MSmits: probably not
jacek: the game?
reCurse: He's waiting for the cyberpony mod
kovi: blame msmits for another swap
MSmits: just lost to him again
MSmits: and drew karliso
MSmits: so its ok
MSmits: again draw karliso
struct: How do i see contests leaderboards?
MSmits: finally some wins vs supson, hes pretty tough also
struct: Its so confusing
struct: I cant get there
MSmits: where?
struct: Any past contest leaderboard
MSmits: what do you mean by "get there"
struct: navigate the page
MSmits: weird
struct: and get to the page where it shows the leaderboard
reCurse: Random thought experiment: do you think a better way to solve draws (e.g. in uttt) would be to make the one who won quicker the winner instead?
jacek: would that favor p1 more?
kovi: interesting...add that into mcts?
MSmits: mmh
reCurse: No in a pairing
reCurse: Not a single draw game
Angecide: winning faster sounds really cool
reCurse: If pairing ends in W-L then one who won quickest gets the series
MSmits: i do wonder if that would just make the leaderboard more volatile
reCurse: Depends
reCurse: Would stronger bots win faster reliably? Or lose longer?
reCurse: If it's more reliable then it's less volatile
MSmits: yeah you could be right
reCurse: Might pervert the game itself a bit though
reCurse: I don't know
MSmits: but the source of the draws is mostly the p1 advantage i think. You're applying a patch when its better to attack the root cause i think
reCurse: Or is the right word in english subvert
jacek: hentai the game?
reCurse: The root solution is to delete uttt
reCurse: So next best thing
MSmits: best thing would be steal option
reCurse: More of a game design thought process
reCurse: I hate that
MSmits: it's such an easy solution
reCurse: It's so lazy
MSmits: yes, easy and lazy
MSmits: it works
reCurse: Pushes the burden of balance on the player
reCurse: It's stupid
reCurse: I think it's horrible design
MSmits: if you dont have time for extensive playtest, it's great
MSmits: sure, playtest with real balance would be better
reCurse: And you don't even prove there exists a neutral state
reCurse: You just hope
reCurse: It's garbage
MSmits: it's impossible to make it worse, and because there are 15 unique moves, it is certain one of them is at least better if not nearly balanced
MSmits: I think top board middle edge was nearly 50% on meta mcts
MSmits: with the center square being close to 70%
reCurse: If you're going to rely on meta mcts as an estimate
struct: just make the 1st move random
reCurse: You can rely on meta mcts as an estimate to not garbage design
reCurse: Design it so it starts as a neutral state
MSmits: but my point is, it can only improve things and it is very likely to. Especially if it is uncertain which starting move is most balanced, that leads to more openings and causes books to be even less attractive
reCurse: It's only improving things because you failed your job as a designer
MSmits: you can frame it that way, sure, doesnt invalidate my point :0
reCurse: I think relying on that is an admission of failure
reCurse: I can't figure out if the game I designed is even balanced so do it for me
MSmits: well it's a simple fact that interesting boardgames are sometimes hard to balance
reCurse: Sure but it's a copout
MSmits: sure
reCurse: And if there exists no neutral states you didn't improve much
MSmits: well, removed full book, based on 2 million+ games. Same rank on submit. That's how useful books are on uttt :)
reCurse: Or did you just hit under the margin of the leaderboard reliability
reCurse: I know where I put my money on
MSmits: nah, i did cg bench tests. It's just that books are only useful when hardcountering players.
reCurse: Ah ok
MSmits: on uttt that is
reCurse: You only mentioned submit so
MSmits: ah yes, i guess its not real proof
MSmits: I'm completely redoing my bot, getting rid of most lookups, going back to simple binary representation and such.
reCurse: If you can hardcounter kar a bit more
reCurse: Would appreciate
MSmits: I have a book version that wins vs his p2 100%
MSmits: his current version
MSmits: never submitted it
reCurse: Well I didn't mean counterbook but ok
MSmits: nah i am done with that
MSmits: he can just submit a new version
MSmits: then the effect is gone
MSmits: i like that noone books now
MSmits: afaik
reCurse: No one?
MSmits: tomatoes doesnt
MSmits: karliso doesnt
MSmits: the rest is lower so... dunno
MSmits: miarem still has his, but its not good
reCurse: 17?!
MSmits: he always got his rank from countering players
MSmits: his bot was weak
reCurse: I see
MSmits: everyone has new versions now
reCurse: I could improve mine now but meh
reCurse: It's all about the checkers
MSmits: improve your bot or improve your book?
MSmits: i'm assuming bot
jacek: im assuming book
reCurse: My last clean training could inch the rank 1 but not very convincingly
jacek: checkers?
struct: did you manage to use the dtw db?
MSmits: it's my belief karliso is not that far from perfect play
reCurse: Yeah
struct: nice
reCurse: My new training with 8piece db does a very good job at landing a good position
reCurse: But doesn't know how to win it
reCurse: That's next
MSmits: ah the WLD db
reCurse: I got wld + dtw thanks to struct
MSmits: how so
MSmits: did he find something?
reCurse: Yeah
reCurse: It's 40gb lol
MSmits: thats cool
MSmits: wow!
reCurse: It's totally where the edge is
reCurse: Analyzing positions with my clean bot
reCurse: It was often good but has no idea how to win
reCurse: Lots of shuffling necessary
MSmits: yes, just like every other bot
MSmits: except yours is more likely to win i guess
reCurse: All except db dr
reCurse: There it's all draws
reCurse: Few rare wins
reCurse: I could tweak to 75% winrate but then the others take a drop
reCurse: Like tric drops to 35% for whatever reason
MSmits: tric trac does some great ab bots
reCurse: True but the normal params give me 70% iirc
struct: Do you want the link too MSmits?
reCurse: So seeing it drop that much is surprising
MSmits: struct of course :)
MSmits: reCurse probably down to determinism again.
struct: http://edgilbert.org/EnglishCheckers/KingsRowEnglish.htm
struct: Scroll to the end
reCurse: According to game lengths it shouldn't be that much deterministic
reCurse: But maybe
reCurse: I'm really surprised how an innocuous move can change a win in a draw
MSmits: cant beleive i missed that struct. I am sure i saw that page
MSmits: thanks
struct: np
MSmits: reCurse i am not at all surprised. At least in othello it happens all the time
MSmits: complexity is similar
reCurse: Yeah but othello is messy and unreadable
MSmits: true, AI doesnt care about that though
reCurse: Yeah but my human eyes care about it
reCurse: So they can see surprises when otherwise it's generally readable
MSmits: mine too... checkers is so much better in that regard
BetterPolu: Hey, i saw someone reading the test file in python with open()
BetterPolu: but now i can't find the contest anymore. Does anyone know, what the test file is called?
MSmits: I saw a squirrel the other day
BetterPolu: oh nice :)
reCurse: Did you run after it? If so you may be a dog.
MSmits: lol
MSmits: woof
MSmits: not sure what you're talking about BetterPolu
BetterPolu: hmm, with open("file.txt","w") you can open files in python. And since I am playing a lot of Clash of Code, it would be useful to read the entire file at once for shortest for example. However, if I don't know the file name, I can't open it :/
MSmits: you saw someone use open in a clash?
eulerscheZahl: let's just switch to bash and run "ls"
eulerscheZahl: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/cbb81c0f-c5ff-401d-9a34-294210381c1d
BetterPolu: yes MSmits
MSmits: better listen to eulerscheZahl
eulerscheZahl: so it's the in<xxx>.txt files
MSmits: he's a guru literally. My title is just eyecandy
eulerscheZahl: and on the out files you have the solution. but it says permission denied
eulerscheZahl: hey, i'm the one playing the candy crush contest right now ;)
MSmits: with a bot?
eulerscheZahl: of course
BetterPolu: thx, eulerscheZahl. But for the testing process you are giving only one test file, right?
eulerscheZahl: topcoder optim contest
MSmits: ahh i see, well good luck with the candy then :)
eulerscheZahl: i see multiple files BetterPolu
Westicles: back to lvl 55, congrats
eulerscheZahl: and this time honestly (kind of)
eulerscheZahl: i jokingly said "hurry up, 1 minute remaining to approve Blockout"
eulerscheZahl: now it's approved
MSmits: lol
Westicles: oh good, didn't deserve a 3rd loop
eulerscheZahl: was indeed 1 minute before the codinbot would have kicked it again
BetterPolu: btw huge fan of eulerscheZahl and MSmits lol
struct: just dd in bash
BetterPolu: how did you get so pro
struct: and you get the entire file
struct: on ruby I usually do
jacek: oh my
struct: p `dd`
struct: and rest of the code after
eulerscheZahl: is cat broken?
struct: no
MSmits: mmh i am only "pro" in a very limited type of botcoding... not general at all. euler can do everything
eulerscheZahl: too much of the honors
BetterPolu: oh, ok cool. Unfortunately I am not so good with either ruby or bash
struct: sometimes i also use tail -1 to get last line
eulerscheZahl: but can you also get the last line using head?
MSmits: BetterPolu i can do C#, a bit of c++ and python
MSmits: no ruby or bash or clashing very well either
MSmits: most of us dont clash
MSmits: we write bigger programs for the other types of competition
BetterPolu: why tho?
MSmits: it's not interesting to us to fight short 15 min battles
BetterPolu: ohh, ok. Maybe i will try the other types too
MSmits: you can spend weeks on a single one and keep finding new ideas and improving
MSmits: much more rewarding
struct: https://github.com/siman-man/ruby-golf-style-guide
struct: I think that siman is the same from the contests
MSmits: mmh that name is wrong. It sounds like he wants you to golf in style
MSmits: but I'm sure he wants you to golf better
BetterPolu: hmm maybe i should learn ruby
adilmarghadi1: hi
Zenoscave: MSmits it makes sense to me. perhaps translation issues?
VladimirAngelov: you can do 45
Zenoscave: pewpew
MSmits: maybe... i was thinking more like this: If there is a python "style guide" it's not about making your python faster and shorter, it's just about making your compatible with the rest of the industry so they can read it. I interpreted it in that way.
Zenoscave: I read ruby golf-style guide. not ruby golf -style-guide
Zenoscave: slight nuance i guess
MSmits: sure, but it's still style, that is more about form, not substance, could be translation I dunno
Zenoscave: For me the golf-style means a golf form of coding. synonymous to my eyes
MSmits: ohh ok, sure that makes sense
Zenoscave: What are you working on now MSmits? I've been away for too long not sure whats popular now
MSmits: i might be the wrong guy to ask, i always relapse into older games
Zenoscave: Same ;)
MSmits: unfortunately i am rewriting uttt again :P
Zenoscave: I should revisit. Minimax is slow for it
MSmits: not slow, just less effective
MSmits: hard to eval
Zenoscave: No, mine is also slow lol
MSmits: ahh ok :)
MSmits: I did an early playout termination version
MSmits: basically mcts with no random rollout, just eval
Zenoscave: Where is the compete tab? I cna't find it
MSmits: worked ok, got around rank 20-30 back then
Zenoscave: did the layout change?
MSmits: if you try from here its the same:
MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming/tic-tac-toe/leaderboard
MSmits: they are messing with it yes
Zenoscave: gotcha
struct: Still need to finish fireworks ai
MSmits: go go :)
kovi: ok, now i see what you meant by uttt and heuristics
MSmits: stop helping people with your google mastry and you gamedesign skills and start botting
MSmits: how so kovi?>
kovi: i slowly weakened my heuristic which pushed me from 100->50 and now i can reach 10 without it
MSmits: not sure what you mean by heuristic though?
MSmits: or weakening it
MSmits: do you mean doing it in stages of the game and not in other stages?
kovi: using it less/more
MSmits: like teccles in 1-20, avoid free move 1-25, that sort o fthing
MSmits: right
kovi: only one thing is consistent
kovi: utilizing early detect for non 3inaro wins still hurt
MSmits: yeah
kovi: i think i wiill settle with a top10 and move along
MSmits: makes sense
egaetan: Daporan ?
MSmits: well think of it this way, even if you somehow get top 3 or something, it's always temporary in uttt. This is the game that never stops :)
MSmits: eh hi egaetan
MSmits: are you looking for him specifically?
DomiKo: I'm so jealous of your work kovi
egaetan: yes
egaetan: appearing in sopra sterai challenge
MSmits: havent seen him here in a long time
egaetan: last minutes
reCurse: Didn't he get the memo about the prize? :rofl:
reCurse: :popcorn:
struct: pm him on forum egaetan
Zenoscave: oh no recurs e brought out poopcorn
MSmits: :poop: :corn: ?
reCurse: This is going to be entertaining
Zenoscave: My keyboard is duplicating strokes again
MSmits: and making everything funnier
Zenoscave: yuup
kovi: im really thinking about nn
kovi: when the heuristics are so...weird
MSmits: the heuristics in uttt are not weird, just a bit harder to see
kovi: what is the difference in finetuning a few
struct: Do you have experience with it kov i?
kovi: yeah, i meant that
kovi: not yet struct
MSmits: btw, there is no reason you cant still use heuristics with a nn
kovi: thx domiko, but really it is just fast mcts + solver. not much else left
MSmits: the few heuristics do make the difference
kovi: simple heuristics are probably better encapsulated by nn
kovi: better finetuned
MSmits: sure, but if a heuristic is 100% reliable, you're lightening the load on the nn, by taking it out maybe.
kovi: true
MSmits: I'm just thinking about limiting training time and maybe the size of the network and such
MSmits: personally i would fit as much domain knowledge in there if i could. It's not how robo and re curse do it
MSmits: Jacek does this sometimes i think
kovi: yeah, but if domain knowledge is simple our own nn's discoveries?
reCurse: Oh and it's not even that clear on the page that it's prizes for fr only
MSmits: kovi yeah obviously i dont have experience to prove it. Just thinking out loud
kovi: and what if it is only 95% reliable...well trained nn can realize the 5% (pun intended)
MSmits: thats true
MSmits: though... I have not seen a nn on CG that evaluated perfectly
MSmits: so it might not beat a nearly perfect heuristic
MSmits: I think they mostly shine with complex patterns you can't separate with simple heuristics. Most games have those
kovi: the problem is that heuristics overlap
kovi: and if you cant separate them (optimize them)
MSmits: you mean eval heuristics now
MSmits: thats true
MSmits: pruning heuristics are different though
kovi: i meant heuristics in more complex games
MSmits: ah ok
MSmits: it's hard to compare a NN to a "regular" bot anyhow. They're so different
MSmits: regular bot uses much more brute force
MSmits: as in sims, treesize, depth etc
MSmits: pb 4 told me the other day his csb has 3k sims, compared to my 300k and it's a lot stronger
kovi: yeah heavy rollouts
MSmits: super heavy
MSmits: I do heavy rollouts in a lot of games and they're nothign like this
MSmits: at most they maybe halve my simcount
MSmits: kovi what did you do for board representation?
kovi: i willl be interesting that in chess
kovi: 2xuint16
MSmits: for each miniboard?
kovi: yes
MSmits: I was thinking of trying this:
MSmits: uint16_t boards16[2][16] = { 0 };
Zenoscave: why not 0x88 it?
MSmits: can union for som avx magic maybe
kovi: hmm
kovi: but you step 1
kovi: at once
MSmits: step 1?
kovi: i dont see how avg help on that
MSmits: yeah i figured maybe for some of the heavier heuristics in the rollout
MSmits: not to apply moves
MSmits: i hadnt given it much thought yet
kovi: i c. that may makes sense if you find out how to use it
MSmits: i did find a way to wincheck with avx
MSmits: not sure yet if it is faster than a lookup
struct: you want to play on 16 mini boards at once?
MSmits: if that were possible, sure struct
MSmits: but the jumps make it impossible i think
MSmits: hey struct, do you want to judge my wincheck for uttt?
MSmits: see if it can be improved?
MSmits: it's avx
MSmits: it's a small function
struct: Im not an avx guru, but I can check sure
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/7eed8efd-7801-4c6b-b9e1-4282f76e3759
MSmits: not sure if it's not faster to just look it up
struct: not sure if there is an operation that does this
struct: (result64[0] | result64[1])
MSmits: i looked
MSmits: could not find a check for "any 1's in vector"
ZarthaxX: what is that ?
ZarthaxX: you want to do an extract and compare?
MSmits: i want to know if it's all zeroes
ZarthaxX: the 128 ?
MSmits: or that there is at least 1 bit set
MSmits: yes
ZarthaxX: ah
ZarthaxX: but u can compare it with a 0 mask
MSmits: then i would need a constant 0 vector?
struct: yeah
ZarthaxX: right
ZarthaxX: or do some packing
MSmits: mmh would that be faster?
MSmits: because the result would not be boolean would it?
ZarthaxX: i haven been doing a project for uni, we used SSE, AVX and AVX-512
ZarthaxX: maybe i can help you :P
MSmits: cool
ZarthaxX: yes it's not boolean
MSmits: so there's more ops needed then
ZarthaxX: maybe you are looking for a better compare
ZarthaxX: mmm
MSmits: mine is just two uint16_t or-ed and then > 0
MSmits: seems hard to beat
MSmits: uint64_t
MSmits: i mean
ZarthaxX: what?
MSmits: i split the 128i in two
MSmits: then or them together
MSmits: and check if the result is nonzero
ZarthaxX: but how are you splitting it?
MSmits: union
ZarthaxX: ah that thing
MSmits: static union { __m128i result; uint64_t result64[2]; };
ZarthaxX: i mean, it's not cheap
MSmits: the union is expensive?
MSmits: does it even cost anything?
ZarthaxX: because if you load the 128 into a register, and do the ops, then u gotta store it to access via array index
kovi: wow, double win vs. rec
ZarthaxX: if you want to do that in the register itself, you have to do an extract
ZarthaxX: of the upper part
ZarthaxX: so in one case you access memory, the other you do an extract in the register which is faster
MSmits: hmm this happens under the hood you mean?
ZarthaxX: right
ZarthaxX: union just helps when working with stuff in memory, but you are manipulating the data in between
ZarthaxX: if you can do all of these things in the register itself it's obv better
ZarthaxX: you can check how that translates btw by yourself
MSmits: so when i do a union and i access it by uint64_t it copies it to a different register?
ZarthaxX: it may do different things based on optimizaction
MSmits: hm ok
ZarthaxX: i would just check how it is compiled
ZarthaxX: you know this ? https://godbolt.org/
MSmits: ah yes
ZarthaxX: you can paste your code and check with the different flags of optim
ZarthaxX: i think it's just better to check that
MSmits: compilation failed
ZarthaxX: well the thing u pasted before was not legal, missing types
MSmits: what types?
ZarthaxX: the thing is that union is just for you to make it easier to code, but internally you dont know how it's managed
ZarthaxX: idk what are you pasting in there smits :P
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/83ab551e-b95a-48b0-b97c-2f7b09809c01
darkhorse64: try _mm_testz_si128 (result, result)
MSmits: i saw that
MSmits: but not sure what it does darkhorse64
MSmits: Compute the bitwise AND of 128 bits (representing integer data) in a and b, and set ZF to 1 if the result is zero, otherwise set ZF to 0. Compute the bitwise NOT of a and then AND with b, and set CF to 1 if the result is zero, otherwise set CF to 0. Return the ZF value.
struct: bits at a & bits at b
MSmits: whats the CF?
ZarthaxX: Carry flag
darkhorse64: if it returns 1, all bits are 0
ZarthaxX: you jsut care of the ZF anyway
MSmits: so does this do exactly what i want then?
struct: int _mm_test_all_zeros (__m128i a, __m128i mask)
MSmits: i saw that one too, but it didnt do what i want
ZarthaxX: yeah it should
ZarthaxX: if there is a 1 with the and it survives doing the testz result result
struct: why doesnt it work?
MSmits: well it requires a mask
MSmits: why a mask?
kovi: why there is no flag for draws in last games?
ZarthaxX: it's just a var name MSmits
ZarthaxX: if you check it, it's the same instruction under the hood
struct: cout << _mm_test_all_zeros(Vec8s(0), Vec8s(1)) << endl;
struct: returns 1
struct: 0 & 1 == 0
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/56fd8460-4ce4-40b1-9370-ce38d76e38bf
struct: I think godbolt has this library one sec
ZarthaxX: nice
kovi: dapo win sopra?
MSmits: mmh that one isnt working yet
ZarthaxX: what?
MSmits: i need to do an "and" for each 16 bit
MSmits: not for the whole thing at once
MSmits: so and + equality cant be done at once
ZarthaxX: im confused
MSmits: _mm_testz_si128
MSmits: this cant replace the "and"
ZarthaxX: but it does the and
MSmits: oh i see what i am doing wrong
MSmits: i need to and, then check for comparison with the masks
MSmits: then check for zero
MSmits: (board & mask) == mask
MSmits: thats the win check i do 8 times
ZarthaxX: mmm
MSmits: the thing struct suggested might be a better fit
ZarthaxX: struct suggestion is the same instruction..
struct: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/ccc44656-b803-4911-99a6-4330bb2bd021
MSmits: _mm_testz_si128 and _mm_test_all_zeros
struct: upsa
struct: wait
struct: its wrong
struct: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/4670060f-a443-40b0-a1f1-d88c0a2deeb7
ZarthaxX: MSmits yeah same
MSmits: dont i need to "not" that struct?
MSmits: now it gives false when you win right?
ZarthaxX: struct why did u change the instr?
struct: return !_mm_test_all_ones(result);
MSmits: seems to work with a simple test
MSmits: cerr << CheckWin(5) << endl;
cerr << CheckWin(7) << endl;
MSmits: 1
0
MSmits: 7 is 3 in a row
MSmits: 0b111
MSmits: and i didnt "not" it yet
struct: Im not sure the first one worked ZarthaxX
ZarthaxX: but it's the same instruction
ZarthaxX: whatever
MSmits: mmh
MSmits: why would there be 2 different ones
MSmits: if they are the same?
ZarthaxX: there are many cases where diff instrinsics use the same instruction
struct: I think all ones instruction is not great
struct: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/a2010df5-3980-4e65-ab78-de3cab0b0939
ZarthaxX: why?
MSmits: so guys... do you think this function would be faster than a wincheck[512] lookup?
struct: zarthax for loop
struct: Im not sure, isnt wincheck a cache miss everytime?
ZarthaxX: pseudo code might not be what it happens
ZarthaxX: you can set a register with all ones in 1 op
struct: Maybe you are right
ZarthaxX: as the instruction shows right there
ZarthaxX: Instruction: pcmpeqd xmm, xmm
ptest xmm, xmm
struct: it says its faster
MSmits: it's 64 bytes struct... not a big array
ZarthaxX: you set all ones with pcmpeqd
ZarthaxX: then ptest your a with the all ones from before
MSmits: wait no
MSmits: 512 bytes
ZarthaxX: that's small
MSmits: 64 if i compress it to 1 bit per result
reCurse: That's not 1 op
ZarthaxX: i said 2 ops
ZarthaxX: as it states there
reCurse: Ah
MSmits: reCurse what do you think, parallel calculation or lookup?
ZarthaxX: ah missing the not in a maybe
struct: MSmits even normal loop performed the same for me as lookup
ZarthaxX: struct btw the other day i found out a wrong explanation of an intrinsic
ZarthaxX: :D
MSmits: really struct
ZarthaxX: hate that documentation
MSmits: it's hard to test if its not a bottleneck
struct: But my uttt code is poor
MSmits: or did you do a clean test?
struct: clean?
MSmits: yeah a test where it's not using 2% of your total calculation time
MSmits: meaning the error in any test is larger than the actual use of time for the lookup
MSmits: btw, i realize this is microoptimizing, but the point is for me to try and write a bot with less lookups :)
struct: yes
ZarthaxX: what is the final code then?
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/002824c2-c250-4e82-86ff-32061f3f0749
ZarthaxX: cant you do 1 less thing there?
ZarthaxX: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/7a13e49f-1726-4fba-9ad0-883cbc9f3228
MSmits: no, you need to 'and" first
ZarthaxX: mmmm
MSmits: basically its like this
ZarthaxX: you sure that doesnt work
MSmits: my board is 000111111
MSmits: say i have a mask of 000000111
YurkovAS: MSmits "_mm_set1_epi16(1)" may change to static
MSmits: I and them together
MSmits: to get 000000111
MSmits: then check if 000000111 is equal to 000000111
MSmits: if i didnt and first they wouldnt be equal
ZarthaxX: ah because u just care of some bits
MSmits: yeah
ZarthaxX: not exactly the same
MSmits: YurkovAS what would that do?
ZarthaxX: you are hard to plase smito
MSmits: :)
ZarthaxX: cant' you test all zeroes against itself anyway?
ZarthaxX: why the set1 there?
MSmits: hmm i worry about that part
MSmits: not sure that works
MSmits: doesnt it make all 16 bit values 1
MSmits: so you got 8 1's
ZarthaxX: that's the set yes
ZarthaxX: so?
MSmits: well if it is a mask, doesnt it check only the first bit now?
MSmits: ohhh
ZarthaxX: the cmpeq? no
MSmits: thats where it gets deposited anyway
MSmits: the cmpeq dumps a 1 bit
MSmits: the first
MSmits: so thats fine
ZarthaxX: cmpeq sets all 1s in the correct place
MSmits: yeah 8 of them
ZarthaxX: no i mean
ZarthaxX: a mask of 0xffff
ZarthaxX: in this case
ZarthaxX: if the cmp is true for a given position, it sets all bits to 1
MSmits: oh, well thats fine too
MSmits: as long as the first bit is 1
ZarthaxX: but you can do a test against itself, or not?
MSmits: how?
ZarthaxX: if there is a 1 then the and gives 1 and gives false
MSmits: ohh ok
MSmits: let me check it
ZarthaxX: aight
MSmits: brilliant, it works
ZarthaxX: nice
MSmits: thanks guys
struct: I got lost
ZarthaxX: the setr thing from the beginning i guess it just ends being a global variable or smth right
ZarthaxX: i hope
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/87b43522-9bb4-4105-afc0-0ef4ac4c656b
MSmits: we changed it like this struct
MSmits: ZarthaxX yeah i do that in other games too
MSmits: othello for example
MSmits: it was quite fast
ZarthaxX: so it's not done every time?
MSmits: nah it's a global constant
MSmits: static means the memory is always reserved
ZarthaxX: excellent, but you can see the whole code together
ZarthaxX: that's cool
ZarthaxX: never saw that usage
MSmits: yeah i learned that from finding code on othello
MSmits: someone shared how to write an othello bot
MSmits: and it included avx code
MSmits: I used avx succesfully all on my own for the first time in connect4
ZarthaxX: nice :O
MSmits: it's kinda fun to figure out, but also quite hard
ZarthaxX: yeah i remember the thing with the shifts, i never got that haha
MSmits: oh yeah thats it
ZarthaxX: avx512 is a whole new world, sadly now available
ZarthaxX: not*
ZarthaxX: what were you doing with the shifts again?
MSmits: I got it to the point that it stuck for me for a few hrs and then when i looked at it again i forgot and didnt get it anymore
MSmits: shifts were mostly about finding moves and flipping them
MSmits: in connect4 it's finding winning moves for me
ZarthaxX: okey
ZarthaxX: so you cant really explain what you did right
MSmits: in connect4?
ZarthaxX: yes
ZarthaxX: i didnt get what you parallelize
MSmits: oh, i parallelize looking in multiple directions
MSmits: say you place a token
MSmits: you can check in multiple directions if this gave you winning moves
MSmits: i do it two times
MSmits: because 8 directions
MSmits: and 63 bit
ZarthaxX: okey
struct: Main problem is to find the instructions
ZarthaxX: thought you couldnt because you had to shift in diff directions
MSmits: you can have a shift vector
MSmits: that shifts different amounts
ZarthaxX: i found out so many interesting instructions while doing my project
MSmits: there's 4 left shift amounts and 4 right shift amounts
MSmits: yeah i guess thats why you need 2
MSmits: aside from the fact that you dont have avx512
ZarthaxX: but you cant shift individually
MSmits: you can
ZarthaxX: i mean
ZarthaxX: different amounts
MSmits: yeah you can shift diffeent amounts
MSmits: just not left and right at the same time
ZarthaxX: but not all at the same time
MSmits: let me find the instruction sec
ZarthaxX: ah nvm
ZarthaxX: stap
ZarthaxX: lol
ZarthaxX: i just never used it like that hehe
MSmits: _mm256_srlv_epi64
ZarthaxX: i didnt use those shifts in my project i already forgot
struct: ZarthaxX you are ready for csb now
MSmits: it's quite strange though that you can
ZarthaxX: it's in 128 bits too MSmits but i get it
ZarthaxX: why so MSmits?
MSmits: it just seems weird, mostly parallizing seems to be doing the same thing to ever part
ZarthaxX: struct na :P
MSmits: but shifting differently is not doing the same
ZarthaxX: ah, you mean it's weird that you are not treating all the data the same way
MSmits: yeah
ZarthaxX: i see
MSmits: i mean i am fine using it, i dont have to know all of how it works
MSmits: just seemed weird
ZarthaxX: btw this instruction, not worth for u here because it just replaces the test all zeroes
ZarthaxX: _mm_movemask_epi8
ZarthaxX: when i found it out i was happy
ZarthaxX: MSmits the circuit logic for it is not hard, tho who cares about that :rofl:
MSmits: hey
MSmits: that thing is interesting
ZarthaxX: many usages
ZarthaxX: hehe
MSmits: thats like parallel __builtin_ctz
MSmits: isnt it?
ZarthaxX: i mean that just collapses the bits so you can apply that
MSmits: or clz
ZarthaxX: i used it to apply first one builtin
ZarthaxX: so similar
ZarthaxX: do you know blend?
MSmits: what does it do?
struct: Improvement: 172.457% over the for loop one
ZarthaxX: you have for example 2 regs with 16 bytes
MSmits: +172%
MSmits: ?
struct: 72% gain
ZarthaxX: and you use another reg of 16 bytes as a selector
struct: 100 = equal
MSmits: is that pdep/pext?
ZarthaxX: for each position you select the byte from one or the other register based on the most sig bit of the selector
MSmits: sounds similar to pdep/pext ZarthaxX
ZarthaxX: _mm_blendv_epi8
MSmits: got it struct, good gain
ZarthaxX: i will check those again
MSmits: is it just a mask selector or does it do something with the order?
ZarthaxX: no, its different as that stores contiguous
MSmits: ah yes
ZarthaxX: this preserves position
MSmits: is there a pdep/pext also?
ZarthaxX: i know those for 512
ZarthaxX: :(
MSmits: ah
MSmits: it's useful to know a lot of these functions
MSmits: often you just dont know what to even look for
ZarthaxX: pdep would be expand and petr compress i guess?
MSmits: pext is compress yes
ZarthaxX: yeah haha, and do you know shuffles?
MSmits: i know yeah
ZarthaxX: well the compress and expand exists but just in 512
MSmits: havent used them
ZarthaxX: i see
MSmits: ah ok
ZarthaxX: if some day 512 is available here it will get wild
MSmits: pext is super useful to take a pattern from a board, compress it and then do a lookup with it
ZarthaxX: i remember u used that for yavalath
MSmits: i did and i used it elsewhere too
MSmits: you can also use pdep as a random selector
MSmits: create a random number
MSmits: then expand that to the pattern you're randoming from
ZarthaxX: mmmm
MSmits: int selectedBit = _pdep_u32(1 << rnd, movesPossible);
ZarthaxX: so you select random moves?
MSmits: for uttt you can do this
ZarthaxX: nice
MSmits: i'm not sure if pdep is maybe slow
MSmits: some people use lookups here too
ZarthaxX: besides benchmarking you can find info about the #clocks it takes
ZarthaxX: as in intrinsics
MSmits: ah is that compiled somewhere?
ZarthaxX: you have the intel manuals
MSmits: ahh ok
ZarthaxX: do you want to find pdep and pext?
ZarthaxX: mmm
MSmits: sure yeah
ZarthaxX: lemme check
ZarthaxX: sadly it doesnt appear, just the instruction info
ZarthaxX: https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/manuals/64-ia-32-architectures-software-developer-instruction-set-reference-manual-325383.pdf
ZarthaxX: you can do ctrl+f and pdep or pext
ZarthaxX: in the intrinsics thing it says the clocks based on cpu arquitecture, but in that manual it just doesnt appear
MSmits: ohh ok
struct: Doesnt the intel intrinsics guide tell the clock?
MSmits: well good know this exists
ZarthaxX: struct i just said that lmao
struct: ah sorry
ZarthaxX: MSmits found it https://software.intel.com/sites/landingpage/IntrinsicsGuide/#expand=5452,4067,4729,94,76,270,3622,3874,4152&text=pdep
MSmits: is it 1?
ZarthaxX: https://cs.stackexchange.com/questions/80859/what-is-instruction-throughput-and-instruction-latency#:~:text=Latency%20is%20the%20number%20of,after%20it%20starts%20its%20execution.
ZarthaxX: no, 3
MSmits: how does that compare with other instructions?
MadKnight: it's just terrible guys
ZarthaxX: read that about latency and throughput
MadKnight: just ignore me everyone
ZarthaxX: MSmits what do you mean?
ZarthaxX: hi mado :P
MSmits: well say popcount
MSmits: or ctz
MadKnight: no hi to me zart
MadKnight: just keep on going
MadKnight: okay while i'm here
MSmits: hi MadKnight, we're discussing avx instructions
MadKnight: yea i get it
ZarthaxX: MSmits do you mean comparing the clocks?
MadKnight: i'm looking into that link
MSmits: yeah
MSmits: i was just wondering if 3 cycles is particularly slow or fast
MSmits: dont have any signposts
ZarthaxX: tbh, when i searched through the manual, i saw avg 3
MadKnight: wow guys u just gotta learn every single low-level rule
MadKnight: okay i'm back out guys
ZarthaxX: i would say it's ok, but anyway uou are better off benchmarking
MadKnight: i dunno anything else
MSmits: will do MadKnight
ZarthaxX: just that sometimes you may find it cool to check combination of instructions that waste less
MSmits: yeah
MadKnight: ZarthaxX knows more than me
ZarthaxX: 1-3 is smth common
MadKnight: it's terrible guys
ZarthaxX: i found one that wasted 10 for example
MadKnight: i just found it out
MSmits: bit ops and addition are 1 i guess
MadKnight: i have to fix that
MadKnight: i have to learn new info
ZarthaxX: yes MSmits mainly
MSmits: multiplication is 4 ?
MadKnight: MSmits teach me
ZarthaxX: MadKnight update yourself
MadKnight: i need to learn more
MadKnight: i'm open to learning
MadKnight: MSmits
MSmits: depends if its int or float i guess
MadKnight: i just need to know more than ZarthaxX
MadKnight: no it's not in floats
ZarthaxX: im seeing 5 for mul
MadKnight: i only need ints
MSmits: ah ok
MadKnight: teach me any info MSmits
MadKnight: i gotta learn more than ZarthaxX
MSmits: impossible
MadKnight: oh right
MadKnight: we gotta PM
MadKnight: or else he will learn the same info
MSmits: no, not today, i should have been asleep 2 hrs ago
MadKnight: u are so smart MSmits
MSmits: have to get up in 5
MadKnight: wat
MadKnight: sleeping before 5am
MadKnight: so cringe
ZarthaxX: so are you going to sleep now smitty? :p
MadKnight: okay i need to find another way of learning
MSmits: yeah i think so ZarthaxX. Busy day tomorrow. Thanks a lot for the help
MadKnight: tomorrow is monday
MadKnight: who goes to sleep early before monday?
ZarthaxX: yw :)
MadKnight: cringe
MSmits: gn!
ZarthaxX: hey i didnt know there was a swap byte instruction
ZarthaxX: bb
MadKnight: someone said gn
MadKnight: cringe
MadKnight: oh wait i ruined it
MadKnight: i missed the "... gn to ... (something)
MadKnight: "
MadKnight: now it makes no sense and just looks dumb
MadKnight: gddamnity
Rbee: its the time of the night where we lag
Rbee: lets gooo
MadKnight: just ignore me
MadKnight: its so terrible
MadKnight: ill just disappear myself
MadKnight: with msmits
MadKnight: i'll just pretend i left for sleep
MadKnight: zairnaim
MadKnight: ZarthaxX
MadKnight: come
MadKnight: here
MadKnight: tell us
MadKnight: about your code
MadKnight: write an essay
MadKnight: in 20 messages
MadKnight: i need u to write 20 messages about it
MadKnight: don't ask why 20
MadKnight: just do it
MadKnight: it's actually an important number
ZarthaxX: i have cute graphics explaining parallel things
MadKnight: wat
ZarthaxX: u are crazy tonight mado
MadKnight: no way
MadKnight: what does "parallel things" mean ZarthaxX ?
ZarthaxX: wanna see my cute graphics with latex
ZarthaxX: i meant the AVX stuff
MadKnight: what kind of latex
ZarthaxX: latex the language for documents
MadKnight: the meme one or the normal one ?
MadKnight: oh right
MadKnight: the normal one
MadKnight: yea let's see it
MadKnight: gimme it
MadKnight: i'm still counting my 20 things ZarthaxX
ZarthaxX: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/317691315712163841/805594453367980042/unknown.png
MadKnight: what mask is this
ZarthaxX: the normal one LMAO
MadKnight: and what is this for
ZarthaxX: that's just showing how we used an instruction to do smth
ZarthaxX: load stuff from memory
ZarthaxX: it's crazy, you can select the bytes you want to load from memory
MadKnight: well we used each bit X byte
MadKnight: bit per byte
MadKnight: wow
MadKnight: so
MadKnight: what was it about ?
CamiloRodriguezG: hey everyone
ZarthaxX: this is from a project we are doing with people from uni MadKnight
ZarthaxX: we implemented 2 algorithms that use dynamic programming using SSE, AVX and AVX512 stuff
3ataja: server errors, here we go again
Severed: for tic-tac-toe: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/202e92c3-07ff-4fc1-b834-dbea41c6ae30
struct: Why not check for winning first?
Severed: yeah, made that change after typing that out
struct: you are still in the first league right?
struct: Also if you are first player, play always on the center
Severed: bronze i think, 9 games at once, hard to deal with random chance giving enemy same square 3 times in a row
Severed: yeah got that in there too, think only improvement i could make is to program in strategies instead of picking random choice if no winning moves or blocking moves available
struct: A heuristic used by top players is to force opponents to play on the same board that you just played, if it's empty
Severed: you can choose what board they play on?
struct: So if board on top right is empty, you should play on top right to force him to play there
Severed: oh, i see the pattern now
Severed: where i play decides what game they play
struct: yeah
Severed: thanks
struct: if the place where they should go is already full, then they can play anywhere
struct: full or completed by any player
shuo502: Which live chat tool do you use
Severed: guessing not me since im clueless as to what youre talking about
shuo502: qq
Angelburgie22: wrong chat dude
