Uljahn: start with easy puzzles, look for most solved like the Descent and Power of Thor ep.1, these two have a hints button on the left
bafian: the "my last play" function does not work right ?
jacek: flying on earth
Uljahn: isn't it about Musk colonizing Mars?
captainnarwal: how can i race my pod with my friend in coders strike back
jacek: you can choose a player under the ide
captainnarwal: thanks mate
captainnarwal: but i cant search my frnd
captainnarwal: do i have to be in same league
Uljahn: guess it works for top-1000 players
Uljahn: yep, top-1000 players of your current league and below
captainnarwal: means if i am in silver league i can play with top 1000 of bronze league
Uljahn: nope, means that if silver is smaller than 1k you'll get some from top bronze
captainnarwal: but its not showing the people i follow
captainnarwal: me and my frnd are both in bottom of silver leagues
gatitos: what are the league things you guys are takling about
captainnarwal: in coders strike back the pod races have leagues
gatitos: what is coder strike back
gatitos: i only play coding game
gatitos: the clash of code t hing
Uljahn: it's a multiplayer thing, also it has a tutorial
Fun007fun: you guys just don't eat dinner?
Fun007fun: maybe other guys can help you
Fun007fun: i am puzzled
Carsonfanboy: for i in range(n): http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/1ea89b22-b294-4cbc-94ce-168de105f721
Fun007fun: if it's not a secret,you can
mzbear: if he doesn't know what's causing the error, he might not know what's relevant either :)
mzbear: a,k,g are all integers, therefore you have one dimensonal array of int ... but you treat it as two dimensional
Fun007fun: porcupines should be a list
Passifi: Bonjour !
Fun007fun: what a nice thing that you got it
Fun007fun: Sorry,but what's mean of "XD","XP"and"DM":joy:
Passifi: XD is a type of crazed smile XP is experience dm is a privat message
Passifi: or XP is also a smily good to know
Fun007fun: like this?
Passifi: I think XD used to be more popular in the olden days
Passifi: before we had emojis bcak then we used to say rofl which is also pretty dead *nostalgicfeelings*
Fun007fun: :joy: is also very popular
Passifi: I know roflmao is roflshticicoomn a real thing ? :thinking:
SPDene: laughing so hard that coke (cola, not the other type) is coming out of my nose
Passifi: oh wow :D
Passifi: those were the days then people began saying lol in real life and we knew things went to far
Fun007fun: wow,time flies
Fun007fun: i need to have a easy dinner, so you next time guys
jacek: gib me new cpu
Passifi: I wonder: how do you unlock certificates?
MSmits: went to school for in person teaching today, one day a week
MSmits: in the train home now
MSmits: then racing my bike home to be home just in time to do 2 more hours of online teaching
MSmits: weird situation
mzbear: the approve puzzles, why the hell does EVERY approver have to check that the default code works for all languages? isn't this something that could be automated?
jacek: just do the tick and be done
mzbear: i am so not going to test every language one by one, and i refuse to tick a checkbox untruthfully
mzbear: thus, i suppose i'm never going to approve any puzzles
jacek: if people were honest, no puzzle would be approved
mzbear: i think people should start being honest
mzbear: flexibility ruins the system
mzbear: this is such a simple thing that could be fixed in the backend, e.g. adding a requirement that the default code must output a hardcoded solution for the first test case
Uljahn: easy fix could be making each approver to use different lang, so at least 4 languages to be covered
DomiKo: Maybe someone knows any public tricks about Hypersonic?
darkhorse64: write a beam search
darkhorse64: and ignore the opponent
DomiKo: Yeah, but nobody writes about it since 2016?
darkhorse64: It's on my todo
DomiKo: BFS with fixed max width
darkhorse64: not only
darkhorse64: you also do pruning
darkhorse64: I mean, you keep the most promising paths
DomiKo: I mean feedback from contest is so old
DomiKo: And I know that it is outdated
DomiKo: Most of the top codes are from 2019
DomiKo: and there is no info :/
DomiKo: no feedback from them? :/
darkhorse64: Yeah but people have kept playing it after the 3rd leaked his code. Therefore, the top is much stronger. Ask MSmits for information
DomiKo: The 3rd one is 70th right now
DomiKo: so they are much stronger
DomiKo: I will ask
darkhorse64: There are lots of copypasted clones of the 3rd. Your(mine too) goal is to beat the clone wall
RoboStac: I think the top few have done a bit more on enemy prediction than the post mortems, but I don't think there has been any massive change
RoboStac: mines almost exactly the same as code in 2017, just with some beam search performance improvements I found during xmas rush
eulerscheZahl: beam search for me too. but I dropped out of top10 :(
1400179: Yeah I think HS is one of the rare multis that got crazy progression after contest, the only other ones I can think is CSB and WW to a much lesser extent.
Westicles: RIP robinhood
Astrobytes: Constrated too hard.
Westicles: He was a fine young lad with the sensitive heart of a poet
1400179: Some low standards you've got
jacek: the third guy approved has beautiful avatar
Westicles: ASCII codes are up to 3 digits
Westicles: Maybe A=9994?
Westicles: What is the only answer that makes sense?
Westicles: Let me get my ouija board and we can ask the author
Westicles: C=0 doesn't make sense, that would be 840
Westicles: AB=08=8, C=4
gatitos: oh someone linked that bards message challenge
gatitos: i got that in fastest and i epicly failed it because i didnt know what i was supposed to do
Westicles: I don't play clashes so I can't edit, but find someone with over 300 and they can make it clearer
Westicles: Oh, somebody already did it, great
BennySama: Whoops, sorry
gatitos: there is like a bug /w the coding game lua interpreter
eulerscheZahl: the interpreter or the language assist?
gatitos: maybe im just really stupid
gatitos: im running `print(exp, math.floor(exp) == exp)`
gatitos: where exp = 29.0
gatitos: it is outputting 29.0 false
gatitos: i can provide like the full code repo
eulerscheZahl: comparing floats is prone to errors
eulerscheZahl: are you sure it's exactly 29.0 and not 29.0001 or something?
gatitos: ah good point
gatitos: lua's __tostring might be coercing 29.00000000001 into 29
gatitos: it just said i faield a test case but got 100%
gatitos: oh on the topic highlighting not working
gatitos: ruby's highlighter fails on statements that can be intepretted
gatitos: things like "a"?"b":"c" i mean
gatitos: the highlighting will make everything beyond the ? go white iirc
gatitos: or sometimes it will do something else
eulerscheZahl: report it on the bugs channel on discord or on the forum
1400179: What's scarier than a bug? Spider?
1400179: I think I found an australian-class spider in my search code
eulerscheZahl: Huntsman spiders are gross
1400179: Affects all my experiments since uttt :scream:
Astrobytes: I quite like spiders.
Astrobytes: Not in my code.
eulerscheZahl: the cook speaking here?
Astrobytes: No, I genuinely quite like spiders. Very interesting creatures.
BlaiseEbuth: That's fluffy.
1400179: What about australian-class ones?
JohnnyLuke: to prove im not a robot it made me select all boats, then forced me to select a jetski
Astrobytes: Yeah, I don't mind them. Fk living there surrounded by 'em though :D
Astrobytes: What's your enormous spider bug then?
1400179: You know the exploration term of mcts
1400179: Turns out sum of child visits is not quite parent visits
Astrobytes: Oh dear, you've made a wrong calculation. And still won a lot.
Astrobytes: Don't fix it :P
eulerscheZahl: i know something worse than spiders: German car commercials https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMTjDRGwlNg
struct: Can people edit contribution if the source code is not downloadable?
struct: or does it only apply to public ones?
struct: By people I mean other users
1400179: Other users can edit a multi?
struct: euler tried to edit yavalath and managed to do it iirc
Astrobytes: Couldn't edit Langton's though
eulerscheZahl: langton is an old contribution
Astrobytes: Ah right enough.
eulerscheZahl: i have very old private drafts that i can't even delete
BlaiseEbuth: Perhaps only euler can...
struct: Well you can try, just download yavalath source and reupload
struct: I was wondering if people could edit non downloadable
struct: and remove the boss for example
1400179: Website is so ripe for abuse it's not even funny
eulerscheZahl: recently i thought i found a big one but luckily I was wrong
eulerscheZahl: https://github.com/CodinGame/codingame-game-engine/blob/master/runner/src/main/java/com/codingame/gameengine/runner/Renderer.java#L877 it's part of the SDK, so I removed it and tested some JS in the statement
1400179: Anyway to struct's original question, I don't see why it would prevent them then
eulerscheZahl: but it's just a duplication of what's done on the server again
1400179: Oh boy
struct: oh well
struct: I uploaded amazons to a private contribution
struct: it builded succesfully
eulerscheZahl: built :P
struct: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
struct: Maybe send doesnt work
struct: but Im not going to test it
struct: oh I can try the send in yavalath I guess
struct: oh well
struct: Im not even sure if its worth reporting it
Astrobytes: Most likely it comes under Very Minor . . .
struct: we will fix if its exploited
struct: its more suitable
struct: sorry im a bit salty
Astrobytes: Me too, don't worry.
1400179: Ever since the great salt flood
eulerscheZahl: to be fair far less than 5% of the users play community multiplayer games
jacek: "Turns out sum of child visits is not quite parent visits" w00t?
DomiKo: How much is 5% of users?
1400179: 5% iodine salt
struct: 100000 /s
struct: the survey was around 200k right?
1400179: 200k survey answers??
struct: I think so
eulerscheZahl: totally all regular users
1400179: Well at least I can rest in peace, I was wondering if I should have botted in retrospect
1400179: But 200k is a bit much
eulerscheZahl: bot for survey
eulerscheZahl: when i saw the survey i had no idea how relevant it would be
1400179: Me neither, but at 200k margin for error is small
eulerscheZahl: not even sure if i answered "compete" or "fun"
eulerscheZahl: and competing is a subset of the fun part for me
struct: I either voted fun or learn
1400179: Then again god knows who answered that
eulerscheZahl: school classes
Astrobytes: Robin Hoods
BlaiseEbuth: Not me
1400179: Wait so 166k survey answers
1400179: 5 new idiots per day in chat
1400179: And 15 regulars
1400179: Something doesn't add up
eulerscheZahl: most are "explorers"
Astrobytes: heh heh
Astrobytes: Explore once and then can't find their way back here?
struct: A true explorer
1400179: Then again I still have no idea how we have so many discord users so what do I know
1400179: Targeted audience of lurkers
Astrobytes: People see discord and click
Astrobytes: (a certain subset of people)
eulerscheZahl: i'm still on the codeforces discord and have it muted
BlaiseEbuth: Keep salting guys, I almost hear the seagulls...
jacek: and get disappointed because its not mlp
Astrobytes: The difference in subscriber count vs active participants is... not small
1400179: It's always low but that low is a bit of a novelty to me
Astrobytes: 2021: The Salting
1400179: 2.5k online in discord, you wouldn't effing know
eulerscheZahl: someone even decided it hide offline users
1400179: I think it does that by itself when there's too many actually
eulerscheZahl: 15k members in total
1400179: Here's what Discord has to say about our server
1400179: "Your server needs more members who visit and talk weekly"
1400179: "Your retention is too low. Try improving your new member onboarding experience"
pb4: "5 new idiots per day in chat And 15 regulars "
pb4: I'm not a regular
pb4: so am I an idiot ? :D
eulerscheZahl: we need more custom emojis on discord
1400179: If you are, not a new one at least
Astrobytes: That logic!
BlaiseEbuth: We need a salt emoji here
Astrobytes: I said that a long time ago Blaise
BlaiseEbuth: Me too, but nobody add it...
kovi: pb?4 is surely with 5%
pb4: I'm surprised that I'm having fun with the Sopra challenge
Astrobytes: It's more fun than the original codebusters?
1400179: I'm surprised you're doing it at all
eulerscheZahl: i'm too reasonable for Sopra, I try the topcoder marathon
1400179: Where is the leaderboard anyway
pb4: reCurse : so am I actually !
1400179: If I knew you were doing it maybe I would have been tempted :p
1400179: Still need my revenge
Astrobytes: TC marathon started eulerscheZahl?
eulerscheZahl: 6 days remaining
Astrobytes: What is it?
pb4: What's really refreshing is that I'm regularly finding measurable improvements
eulerscheZahl: swap any 2 tiles
struct: candy rush?
Astrobytes: Oh bejeweled kinda thing
eulerscheZahl: then if there is 3 in a line (not diagonally) it disappears
Astrobytes: Not diagonally? Weird
eulerscheZahl: points for long lines and long lasting combos
pb4: Contrary to FC and OOC, where 95% of changes I didn't really know if they help
eulerscheZahl: line: (length-2)^2
1400179: Any idea why?
pb4: In this game : 95% of changes *do help*
eulerscheZahl: sum of line scores multiplied by combo count
Astrobytes: Sounds reasonably interesting. Might take a look at it.
eulerscheZahl: you are still far from the end of the contest pb4
pb4: reCurse you still have a few days to take your revenge :)
eulerscheZahl: usually that's about the time when I run out of ideas
pb4: eulerscheZahl : I have run out of ideas already
pb4: Won't spend time grinding this one though
eulerscheZahl: then try Triangle Catch ;)
1400179: Nah that's starting too late
1400179: And if you're not tryharding it's not worth it either ;)
pb4: No good idea, no time spent
pb4: eulerscheZahl : I really should, it looks cool
eulerscheZahl: leaderboard for CB is almost exclusively French I guess without prizes as an extra motivation, many discarded the idea
pb4: I didn't think it would play such a big role, but I find it hard to muster the motivation when there is no real time limit
eulerscheZahl: (or job opportunity)
eulerscheZahl: i totally agree. I need a fixed deadline
1400179: And focused attention
pb4: Just knowing that it doesn't make a difference if I start today or tomorrow doesn't help starting :/
eulerscheZahl: a real one, not the bitrunner fake contest
pb4: Well we did what we could for BR
Astrobytes: Salt wave incoming
1400179: That wasn't a diss on BR really
1400179: But we all know
eulerscheZahl: if CG doesn't want contests, we can't really do anything about it building our own platform is not an option
jacek: build your own platform. with blackjack and hookers
1400179: fwiw I still enjoyed BR
eulerscheZahl: i still haven't started :(
Astrobytes: Me too, even though I didn't do particularly well. Great game.
1400179: pb4's bosses were quite fun
pb4: Thanks :)
Astrobytes: The hard bosses really make it.
eulerscheZahl: i still have a backup to read later
struct: I think it was a good game, better than some of CG official ones
eulerscheZahl: procrastination at its finest
eulerscheZahl: and no changes at all after release, were there?
1400179: Just would have been better with the CG attention magic
Astrobytes: Yeah, for sure
eulerscheZahl: for CG contests it's standard. bug fixes and each extra inputs like dead pacmen
Astrobytes: Don't think so euler
Astrobytes: (changes after release)
pb4: Nope, no changes
pb4: We had reserved the possibility to do so during the first few days of the fake-contest
1400179: Let me know next time you tryhard on something pb4
pb4: But apparently testing had been thourough enough :)
pb4: Haha reCurse :D
pb4: Will od
1400179: Next best thing after a contest
jacek: on shortest mode?
eulerscheZahl: don't use a hammer for a screw
Astrobytes: Where's the "Use the right tool for the job" autoresponder
Astrobytes: Way too much of this exact complaint recently.
Astrobytes: For my liking.
1400179: So what does that have to do with c# and what's the problem?
eulerscheZahl: C# and codegolf
1400179: Yeah but he said he's doing it in python
1400179: And something about gigabytes of c++ code
eulerscheZahl: my bad, selective reading when I sense a clasher
Astrobytes: Soon, every clash will declare everyone in 1st place.
Astrobytes: People who don't use ruby/python/perl get real hurt about losing shortest mode.
Astrobytes: Complaints everywhere.
Astrobytes: The solution therefore is to declare them all as winners, to keep it Fun.
eulerscheZahl: should we get rid of clash? it makes some people lose which is sad
eulerscheZahl: they might get frustrated and never come back
1400179: Tempting to start trolling
1400179: Like start forum threads about using character multiplier for different languages
Stilgart: eulerscheZahl: same troll on #fr :D
1400179: C# should be 0.4
1400179: Java 0.01
struct: I dont understand why peolpe take coc seriously
Astrobytes: Yeah, but hate 'competing'...
eulerscheZahl: in Germany we have "Bundesjugendspiele" (kids running, throwing a ball as far as they can, long jump, ...)
Astrobytes: (Sports Day)
eulerscheZahl: and one kid came home crying as it performed poorly. logical reaction from the mother: make a petition to stop that event
eulerscheZahl: got a surprisingly high attention and number of signs
eulerscheZahl: i wonder how these kids grow up and perform in the real world after school
Astrobytes: We had the same issue with Sports Day even when I was at primary school. Nowadays everyone gets a certificate of participation so they don't feel like they lost.
Astrobytes: Yes, your last point there euler. Exactly.
1400179: The real world adapts to them
eulerscheZahl: so that's why we have less contests now? and noob friendly contests
1400179: It's much broader than that
1400179: Maybe it's just me but I'm tempted to bury the hatchet, topic got old and salt is out of control
1400179: It is what it is to quote a stable genius
eulerscheZahl: i accepted defeat already
Astrobytes: "stable genius" heh heh
Astrobytes: Yeah, the saltiness will surely be overtaken by a rush of syrupy-sweetness given time.
struct: Save the saltiness to when the new feature is released
eulerscheZahl: what will it be? the twitter post thing?
struct: No idea when, and ys
1400179: Let's just move on
Salted: Can we just know which clash we're going for? It's like signing up to play a sports game and no knowing which sport you're signing up for. Maybe it'll be hockey, tennis. Personally I would rather just pick the game I want to play in coc.
struct: private clashes allow you to choose
struct: But its not that usefull if you dont have people to join
1400179: The player pool is not big enough to afford fracturing the matchmaking
eulerscheZahl: easy fix: if it's a shortest one, you close the tab and start a new one
eulerscheZahl: reverse? close and start new
eulerscheZahl: fastest? also close and start new
1400179: Doesn't that tank your rating?
Salted: How do you know which one it'll be?
struct: Just submit 1 char with 0%
eulerscheZahl: you see it when it started
struct: sometimes its enough for top 50%
Salted: Oh you have to wait. That's lame.
Astrobytes: <insert comment here>
Salted: <insert rebuttal>
TBali: there are close to 500 solo puzzles - no competition, no time pressure, no (too much) language disadvantage
TBali: and in general more interesting problems
Salted: But no adrenaline rush either
Salted: The clashes are actually kind of addicting
1400179: Eh, now that's an interesting idea
1400179: Puzzle rush like in chess
Wings_of_Safety: You know it would make sense not to compare languages that are inherently shorter to code in with more verbose languages. Should have different categories of code like in boxing; lightweight to heavyweight. Or, you know, just have each language as a competition category.
TBali: My max was 20 puzzles in a day
struct: new puzzle rush on lichess is pretty good
TBali: But unrepeatable now for me, remaining stuff is hard
struct: starts very easy but its good
1400179: Yeah, that would probably give a better alternative to clashes
Kr3sZ: guys, what's the statement if the input is 3 and 5, and the output is 5 6 7 \n 6 7 8 \n 7 8 9 ? i can't get it
TBali: That could be a nice contest-like event
1400179: You could even do like the fancy ones where the puzzle gets a rating
TBali: But that would need withhelding few dozen puzzles (to reveal them at the same time)
TBali: I like this idea
TBali: Pikaptcha was somewhat similar
struct: for(i=5;i<5+3;++i) s="" for(j=0;j<3;++j) s+=j+i+" "
struct: something like taht Kr3sZ
TBali: but tematic and 4h only
Astrobytes: I can't stand puzzle contests. Just imo.
SPDene: Kr3sZ looks like input: 3 5 means produce a 3x3 grid of numbers, startiong with 5 (not sure if that's what you're asking)
1400179: The only thing I could see in favor of clashes is time pressure, this would give it a better alternative imo
Astrobytes: Yeah I agree it would certainly be an improvement
kovi: hmm, i thought it is possible to reach legend uttt with pure mcts...how many rollouts should i reach?
1400179: Was it 20k or 50
Astrobytes: 20-25k iirc
Salted: If it wasn't for the clashes I'd probably be on a different site or solving on my own. It really is just the rush of competition.
TBali: For pikaptcha was adrenaline for 4 hours
TBali: finished in 3:52 or so...
DomiKo: kovi 15K is good too
kovi: no heuristic?
kovi: hmm...i still need to double
eulerscheZahl: i hated pikaptcha done with the first 2 in 21min. then I didn't understand the möbius task
struct: Was site slow during pikapctha?
eulerscheZahl: and finished after >3h
eulerscheZahl: no, that was fine
eulerscheZahl: locam sprint was horrible
TBali: Maybe a puzzle rush would be better with more available puzzles and not building on each other
TBali: so you can skip the one you don'T like or stuck
struct: No skip
struct: People should get space maze
struct: as first puzzle
eulerscheZahl: episode 2
TBali: my fellow troll
eulerscheZahl: the one that i never published as i can't solve it myself
TBali: freecell can come after it
Astrobytes: Perhaps you can WIP it euler, see if anyone can solve it
TBali: what is the hardest puzzle in expert?
TBali: (subjective I know)
struct: What was the main difference in ep2?
struct: Well Nintendo probably has the lowest success rate
struct: But people are curious and click on it to check
struct: so that adds up
TBali: Yep, in it is still C++ only...
TBali: don't understand why, contest is over long time ago
TBali: I found some fairly easy puzzles ion expert, and some quite hard in medium
Astrobytes: That happened after The Great Mixing.
eulerscheZahl: just too many states in space maze 2. and my speed improvements don't work there anymore
TBali: another quick contest idea - you only 1 puzzle (not too hard or long) - first to pass in ALL languages wins
k4ng0u: how many people did finish space maze (1)?
struct: im not sure I think
struct: I thought I saw that number
TBali: stats page for solo
k4ng0u: and this is not the hardest puzzle ever?
k4ng0u: (on cg)
jacek: space maze?
eulerscheZahl: now it's freecell going by solver count
TBali: number of solutions also dpeends on since when the puzzle is there. Success % is also revealing
Westicles: the hardest one is that stupid one where you have to print out the stupid unix directory structure
eulerscheZahl: but those numbers are biased. much more users saw nintendo
TBali: you can sort the list above
eulerscheZahl: only try-harders got to see space maze
TBali: If I see you are the author, I know it will be interesting but bloody hard
k4ng0u: oh ok, must have missed a few messages in the feed hard puzzle harder than very hard and everything at 50XP classic CG
eulerscheZahl: and 250xp for creators
eulerscheZahl: no matter if clash or complex multiplayer
TBali: Westicles, which one is that? I remember solving a dir tree printer but that was not hard
k4ng0u: oh well. not much of a contributor myself but this sounds not so good, especially considering the harder the puzzle is, the most effort needs to be put in the testcases (outsider view though, might be challenged)
Astrobytes: Welcome to the CG Salt Mine :)
TBali: advanced tree - I did not find that one particularly hard. only tedious
eulerscheZahl: the animations are what usually takes the most time
eulerscheZahl: and testing corner cases for multiplayer games to make sure nothing breaks
TBali: 300 loc for me
Westicles: Oh, yeah I meant tedious... hard to finish
TBali: But my style is verbose
TBali: from medium, mars lander 2 is the hardest imho
MSmits: i second thaty
TBali: (except the 3 I still have left)
MSmits: I spent two days on that when i had just joined CG
Westicles: this nurikabe one is fun, but I doubt it will end up being very hard
TBali: 1 of course from eauler... :-)
MSmits: and then after that i tried skynet 2 and solved it in 15 minutes
eulerscheZahl: i even solved marslander 3 before 2
eulerscheZahl: my random search always failed 1 testcase when i tuned for the other
MSmits: yeah i guess when doing marslander 3, you use an actual search, that you can then also use on marslander 2
eulerscheZahl: then i wrote a few if statements and passed
MSmits: but marslander 2 is medium, so who is going to use GA on a medium puzzle...
eulerscheZahl: and added the random search to improve my solution from there
MSmits: yeah mine was fully heuristic
eulerscheZahl: how needs GA when there is MC?
MSmits: well it's a search anyways :)
MSmits: also, your MC are usually pretty smart
TBali: from expert Hitori is at most medium
TBali: simple backtrack
eulerscheZahl: then i checked solutions and included 2 more heuristics from those and just test all 3 combined with my random search
eulerscheZahl: find path with heuristic. then random step or 2. from there heuristic again to finish the landing. check if better
struct: I cant stay on the same puzzle for more than 1 hour
TBali: "but marslander 2 is medium, so who is going to use GA on a medium puzzle..."
I suggest checking Agade's solution in C++ for The Descent
eulerscheZahl: you mean Onboarding
TBali: the one with NN
TBali: don't remember
TBali: Right, onboarding it is. I found it because of the huge amount of upvotes (well deserved)
TBali: But the NN was trained offline, weights are hardcoded
TBali: This might be another idea for "beaty contest" - maybe for tech.io - publish the weirdest wolutions possible
TBali: Reminds me to the Niels Bohr barometer anecdote
TBali: (And we are coming back to the "right tool for the right task topic")
eulerscheZahl: https://www.ioccc.org/ have fun
TBali: Funny if you don't heard it yet
TBali: Whit perl it would be just plain codes
jacek: and this reminds me of tom & jerry
TBali: maybe an anti-golf contest?
TBali: longest code, BUT all lines must have a purpose in the solution
TBali: (hard to judge automatically, I am afraid)
TBali: let me check - my longest puzzle solution is last crusade 2
TBali: at 22 kB
TBali: my shortest is google interview
TBali: ungolfed 163 bytes - but that includes the puzzle link in a comment
TBali: my contest/bot codes are longer
PatrickMcGinnisII: at least coc works better for me with the new web layout on cg
struct: you get the new layout?
struct: for me its 50/50
TBali: my browser reverted to the old upper bar. on mobile it is the new one
TBali: But why is it better? I thought only the menu bar changed
TBali: IDE is the same no?
eulerscheZahl: yeah, CG has a different understanding of A/B testing
JLukeSkywalker: you can make my game
JLukeSkywalker: I just havnt bc I hate graphics
eulerscheZahl: add walls and power-ups already
eulerscheZahl: so you have to collect ammo
eulerscheZahl: and heal
TBali: Don't forget fog of war
**eulerscheZahl slaps TBali around a bit with a large fishbot
Astrobytes: ammo/shields/speed boost
TBali: FPS but with a text parser input
TBali: interactive fiction style
struct: astro this is what tric trac was talking about right? https://i.imgur.com/rblCMX7.png
TBali: By the way CG should support Inform 6
eulerscheZahl: take your time, a good game can take a month
Astrobytes: struct: Not sure about mixing the sides like that
Astrobytes: black/white adjacent
Astrobytes: Not sure
JLukeSkywalker: currently have next leagues for tanks with shield and variable bullet size, working on adding the walls
TBali: can we pay with CP?:
- Realistic FPS Game
struct: port doom
eulerscheZahl: not sure if variable bullets add anything to the game
eulerscheZahl: best case there is a clear best bullet and everyone is using it
eulerscheZahl: worst case some rock paper scissors
JLukeSkywalker: they cost your energy to fire, deals more dmg and goes slower
Astrobytes: Ammo, shields, speed, health, that kinda thing
TBali: Okay, I see it is free, but at least add in game micro-transactions
struct: Surround sound
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/contribute/view/6136321d24739acb391aa3f2c00df2627adb for context MaxiLaw
Astrobytes: OK I'm commenting to JLukeSkywalker btw
jacek: struct ask MSmits to find balanced starting positions :v
TBali: I can provide better suggestions without context
eulerscheZahl: coming up with a game idea is the hardest IMO
JLukeSkywalker: i have the ideas, just too lazy
JLukeSkywalker: after i finish tanks, next one is stock market
struct: I could force only one unit per player on each 4x4 board
TBali: I am wondering if Diplomacy can be implemented
Astrobytes: We'll beat that out of - I mean motivate you JLukeSkywalker
TBali: But there offline negotiations are the key aspect
1400179: What the hell did I just read
struct: Which part?
eulerscheZahl: the email address?
eulerscheZahl: oh, the yes meme
TBali: added to spam bots - tick
eulerscheZahl: be careful sharing your email address
Astrobytes: struct: that could work yeah
jacek: AutomatonNN will you spam
AutomatonNN: Hi, I should have to look into that I have to add a ref solution
Astrobytes: struct: Gonna have to experiment a bit initially
1400179: Where is the check everything button when you need it
eulerscheZahl: you want to approve a contribution reCurse?
eulerscheZahl: there are lots of checkmarks
1400179: Nah if clashers can do it I can manage
1400179: But that website you linked
1400179: That's a lot of checkboxes
JLukeSkywalker: are there even any puzzles on here that use trend-following and other stock prediction algorithms yet?
1400179: If you mean puzzles with no practical real-life use oh boy have we got those
eulerscheZahl: riddles.io had a crypto trader optim
eulerscheZahl: the internet had riddles.io
MSmits: jacek if there was any point to using meta mcts to help out struct I would. But I would both need a reasonably strong bot which I have no idea how to write and then some way to deal with the branching, or a million hours of computer time
jacek: youll manage. i believe in you
MSmits: thanks :P
eulerscheZahl: yeah, you have the money to rent some servers
TBali: This would make a great AI game (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomacy_(game)
jacek: you dont need good bot. only mcts with enough rollouts
MSmits: technically i can afford some, but I would never get wife-approval :P
1400179: I have the algo you just need to provide infinity
eulerscheZahl: buy google
eulerscheZahl: i think i don't have to read the article to say "hell no"
TBali: which article?
MSmits: that seems like a uniquely human game
TBali: I played it play bay email long time ago
TBali: it lasted 4 months
Astrobytes: Yes. Risk might work
TBali: Risk has random
MSmits: you mean platinum rift
TBali: Diplomacy is deterministic
TBali: much better
Astrobytes: Yes but requires... Diplomacy
TBali: yes - that is the hard part
TBali: writing natural language emails to other bots
TBali: and understanding the incoming ones
Astrobytes: Off you go then, this is your project for the year. In PHP.
MSmits: this makes me wonder, has there ever been evidence of players cooperating illegally?
MSmits: i know it happened in halite
TBali: the game mechanic is very simple
TBali: and teher is no META
TBali: just subterfuge
JLukeSkywalker: might be easier to make the game coup, still some cool strategy and subterfuge
Astrobytes: I thought Halite had communication features?
TBali: Actually no trolling was intended, Diplomacy could ba made with a simplified diplomacy API
BlaiseEbuth: I'm starting to understand why people ask for reviews on their contributions on the chat or the forum... :(
TBali: make contact, make alliance
TBali: agree on attacking X
MSmits: i mean two players identifying eachother in a game and then avoiding harming eachother
Astrobytes: Yeah, I thought that was part of it
MSmits: i think reCurse said something like that happened in halite
MSmits: i dont think that was supposed to happen
kovi: in 4 player game?
kovi: which halite
1400179: Can't remember if it was done in H3...
1400179: I know it was discussed
kovi: i c actually i learned enemy aggression in h3
Astrobytes: It was legal?
1400179: Nothing forbid it
JLukeSkywalker: someone just write an ai that reads in a game rule-book and spits out a codingame game
Astrobytes: Legal then.
1400179: Thankfully they run tens of thousands of games for finals
kovi: so i guess it would not be hard to learn patterns
MSmits: obviously not intended behavior though
1400179: I was able to measure the impact on rankings
1400179: It had none
1400179: But could have
kovi: well...anyone could still say...they dont want to mess with recurse and instead focus on easier opponents
MSmits: i guess you can do it when your output is sufficiently varied and you can output an id early in the game
MSmits: like if you output a float
1400179: It was continuous space so quite trivial
MSmits: ah right
kovi: i think in h3 someone trained his nn on recurse
1400179: Supervised learning
MSmits: was it better than you?
Astrobytes: lol, how did that work out?
MSmits: ah good
1400179: Much better than it should have actually
1400179: I was also the only bot that was very learnable apparently
1400179: Namely failed on teccles
kovi: he said that in post mortem
MSmits: ahh, teccles should just be aheuristic like in uttt :P
Astrobytes: Been a while since I read all the halite pms
1400179: I didn't know anything about NNs back then, should read his again
MSmits: so basically, he just read the gamestate got an output from his NN and backpropagated a score based on how similar the orders were to your bot's
MSmits: thats my guess about how supervised would work
1400179: Yeah except the game features hundreds of agents so he must have had to hack something
MSmits: yeah that seems hard
1400179: Oh yeah I think I remember why it worked much better on mine than others
1400179: I had no adaptive collision detection >:(
MSmits: seems easier to just write your own bot tbh.
1400179: Depends on your goal
1400179: He has done the most impressive one imo
MSmits: because he did something that is hard to do?
Stilgart: h3 ?
1400179: Hard to do and with much more generalized uses
MSmits: I see
1400179: One of the main goals was to promote machine learning
1400179: He may be the only one who did that and made it work
1400179: Keyword: and
kovi: i agree. and it is not simple, i read it few monthes ago when i got some (minimal) nn understanding and there are interesting parts
MSmits: hey, i know you're nr 1 in pr-2, but would it not be a good goal for you to try a NN there, new challenge?
1400179: Implying I don't currently have a challenge with easier parts
Astrobytes: Fixed the bug now?
1400179: Yeah the fix was easy
jacek: what bug
1400179: sum of child visits != parent visits
Astrobytes: Yeah easy fix, you're retraining now?
jacek: how come
1400179: Off by one error with catastrophic implications
1400179: I'd have to describe everything I do to properly convey how bad it was
1400179: So you'll have to take my word for it
jacek: what gamre
1400179: uttt, bt, othello, checkers...
Astrobytes: Comparing to 3.6 roentgen/hour it was on the terrible side of not great.
MSmits: that's pretty bad
Astrobytes: Seemed appropriate :)
1400179: I don't get it
Astrobytes: REM values. Also Chernobyl reference.
Astrobytes: "3.6 roentgens per hour? Well, not great, not terrible"
MSmits: ah 3,6 roentgen is actually not that much
MSmits: i never use that unit
Astrobytes: No, it's not great, not terrible either.
MSmits: yeah that's actually accurate, i thought it was some kind of understatement
Astrobytes: I never used it much either apart from a few exams.
Astrobytes: Well, the meters only went up to 3.6 roentgens....
MSmits: well if you have to stand in that radiation all day it's a problem yeah
MSmits: with no protection
MSmits: I have to teach this stuff in a few weeks
MSmits: we use Sv unit for equivalent dose
Astrobytes: The point was that there was a lot more than 3.6 roentgens coming from the open core.
struct: MSmits the amazons will probably be 8x8 and have random starting positions, suggested by trictrac
MSmits: makes sense, if it topped the meters...
struct: random mirrored
MSmits: struct can't hurt to be safe
MSmits: as long as they are balanced
MSmits: we dont want another bandas
Astrobytes: It blew the meters with higher limits too.
MSmits: you said mirrored, thats probably ok
1400179: lol bandas
1400179: I tried it for fun
1400179: Biggest regret of my life after uttt
1400179: How did this get approved
1400179: No don't tell me
MSmits: ahh you place too much emphasis on leaderboard viability. Sometimes it can just be fun to code something :)
1400179: What's that
jacek: whats wrong with bandas
MSmits: my point exactly :P
jacek: aside its solved after few turns
MSmits: jacek it has starts that are so unbalanced, the winner is clear when there are two good bots
MSmits: no matter what they do
1400179: Eval saying -0.8 on first turn
jacek: and its right?
MSmits: yeah it's right
MSmits: my mcts says -0.3 or so, with scores between -1 and 1 and it's very reliable
1400179: Map gen is a joke and I don't even know if it's fixable
MSmits: it was actually improved
MSmits: was worse at first
MSmits: i meant before you tried it
1400179: You can't make worse
1400179: That's like saying there is negative abs(x)
Astrobytes: that fireball guy should not have approved, he was a big copypaster iirc
MSmits: - abs(x) ?
1400179: No, x where abs(x) < 0
MSmits: imaginary doesnt do that
MSmits: thats when you square
Astrobytes: That's not imaginary
Astrobytes: eh, too slow again
jacek: absolutely imaginary?
1400179: Gotta go for fictional
MSmits: wait, we did not count on jacek's imagination
Astrobytes: Imaginatively absolutely fictional?
1400179: I'm sure there's a pony that has a negative absolute
1400179: Would reinforce my theory actually
Astrobytes: Princess Negabsolutor
Astrobytes: I feel dirty.
jacek: well if you can have sqrt of negative, why not abs of negative
jacek: im gonna look for that
1400179: negative abs not abs of negative
1400179: Big difference
MSmits: what's the meta on game of drones?
MSmits: do people use GA?
1400179: Uh oh
MSmits: I'm just asking because I have 3 students doing game of drones and it would be helpful if i knew the game a bit better, maybe get out of silver
1400179: I was replying to Angecide
1400179: I completely forgot what I did for god
MSmits: yeha i got that
MSmits: i wonder if it has to be approached as some kind of partial optimization problem
MSmits: not just an adversarial bot search like we usually have
MSmits: (on boardgames etc)
1400179: It's definitely unique
MSmits: I was thinking of trying SA with a solution assigning drones to a primary and secondary target
MSmits: then doing some sims and repeating the same for opponents
Astrobytes: Why SA in particular?
MSmits: cuz I like it
MSmits: and i dont know many others
1400179: Biologists go for GA
MSmits: that too :0
Astrobytes: Meh, I like SA too
MSmits: I think god might be better or just as good as csb for people who are relatively new to coding. It's so easy to get a starting bot and slowly add new things
MSmits: there's no physics and stuff, all you do is send your drones somewhere
MSmits: big searchspace, simple actions
kovi: isnt it about economy rather?
1400179: If you can get past how boring it looks you might be right
kovi: (havent played it)
MSmits: right yeah somewhat boring i guess
Astrobytes: Heh. Not wrong there actually.
MSmits: kovi, no economy
MSmits: just score from keeping captured nodes
MSmits: like domination in a fps
Astrobytes: Definitely has a scheduling thing going on though
MSmits: except no shooting
MSmits: how do you mean Astrobytes
Astrobytes: what to send where and when
1400179: This may be wildly off topic but
Astrobytes: So, some part of it might be reducible to a simpler problem
1400179: Gladiabots has something very good about teaching "coding" within a "bot game"
1400179: Execution is a bit off imo but the underlying idea is pretty good
Astrobytes: That name tho
MSmits: that's not off topic at all, always nice to check those things out
MSmits: ohh a steam game
1400179: And behavior trees have a major relevance when it comes to game AI
MSmits: you see a lot of that in those turnbased and real time strategy games
MSmits: saw some edited behavior files for some of those
1400179: I'm no teacher but I'm sure there's some gold to be found there
MSmits: if there is, it's probably going to be for those really strong students that are already far along. Most of my students can barely code
MSmits: that's the difficult part with AI
1400179: Yeah but you don't need to code to do behavior trees
jacek: just wait for AI to code for you
MSmits: oh I see
Astrobytes: You can do them on a whiteboard
1400179: Yet it teaches similar principles
MSmits: I'll check it out
1400179: In a context that might be more appealing to some
jacek: AutomatonNN can do them as well
AutomatonNN: eulerscheZahl is there a way to understand the internet
1400179: I know I didn't give a damn about geometry until I learned it could be used in video games
jacek: no one understands the internet
Astrobytes: Yeah, it's always great to show applied examples of what you're learning
Astrobytes: Varied examples at that
TBali: multiplying huge matrices became fancy only with the advent of ML...
MSmits: reCurse yeah I got a lot more interested in linear algebra when i was building custom weaponry in space engineers and scripting them to hit spaceships moving at a constant velocity :)
TBali: same with graph theory and CG
1400179: While we're into these recommendations, if you want to get bitten by parallelism problems in a gamey way, spacechem is fantastic
Astrobytes: I love all the zachtronics games tbh
TBali: I bought only one (actually because Astrobytes recommended) - I don'T dare to buy the rest, I am afraid of the lost time
TBali: I mean time to be lost
1400179: Is it lost if you have fun
Astrobytes: Whilst keeping your mind sharp
TBali: Ask my social peers like family, friends...
Astrobytes: Make them play it.
TBali: Justr checking my Gog account. Actually I bought Spacechem besides TIS100 but did not install it yet
Astrobytes: You know what to do.
TBali: bye, be right back (in February)
TBali: but another topic - just listening to a C++ tutorial. This unique_ptr, shared_ptr thing seems a bit complicated. Do people actually use these?
TBali: that is overwhelming vote :-)
Astrobytes: It's really not complicated.
TBali: this manual memory management seems to be tough for any code over 50 lines
TBali: I mean in general
TBali: not the *_ptr
1400179: What are you talking about, it's the opposite of manual
Astrobytes: That's automatic memory management, manual memory management is * fun
TBali: I meant C++ in general - so no CG, haveing to worry about delete
TBali: but not finished th course yet, so even my comments might not make sense
1400179: Well you lost me
RoboStac: thats why unique / shared ptr exist so you never have to type delete again
Astrobytes: Once it's out of scope it's done for you
TBali: okay, next time I actually FINIS the lecture before I ask :-)
MSmits: well there's no segmentation faults in C# :P
MSmits: he's not wrong that there's more ways fk up in C++
1400179: Do NPEs count?
MSmits: nonylphenol ethoxylates ?
Astrobytes: I mean I'd still practice using raw pointers if you're unfamiliar but the unique/shared pointers are a real help
TBali: but if they delete automatically isn't part of the speed advantage lost?
TBali: is it so good?
TBali: That is half GC, only determeniszic timing, no?
1400179: Don't take offense
1400179: But there's so many things wrong in that question I'm not sure what to say
1400179: What performance are you talking about?
1400179: And it's not garbage collection because it still needs to be explicitly freed
1400179: It's just done automatically via the destructor
1400179: What is allocated needs to be freed regardless
TBali: okay, thanks.
RoboStac: yeah, either you free the memory before the pointer goes out of scope or you leak the memory and lose it forever
RoboStac: I mean I guess it's technically faster to leak until you run out of memory
1400179: That's true, it's also led to the invention of GC
TBali: Actually in PHP with some puzzles I start with "disable_gc()"
MSmits: I played a lot of games where players were complaining about memory leaks happening in extended play
MSmits: before i could even code
TBali: if I am not out of memory till I solve it I am much faster
1400179: What if I could leak until I run out of memory and then let someone else free the memory for me
struct: you can disable gc on php?
TBali: otherwise I am dead lost with objects in 100 ms turn time
MSmits: "Deactivates the circular reference collector"
JohnnyLuke: lol, is maxi trying to scam on a site of programmers?
MSmits: circular reference collector seems way more specific than GC?
1400179: The leak everything strategy rarely applies outside of CG
1400179: Well GC solves the circular ref problem
MSmits: but doesnt it solve more than that?
1400179: But when it comes to PHP I would assume the least possible except it's probably not doing what it says
RoboStac: php is reference counted so things do get collected as they go out of scope unless they have circular references
MSmits: ah ok
1400179: So they kind of have both at the same time? Sounds like PHP
MSmits: circular reference means 1->2->3->1 right?
MSmits: so it seems everything is still in use
TBali: CG in PHP is implemented with counting circular references
1400179: Or more simply, 1->2 2->1
MSmits: also 1 -> 1 ?
1400179: I would say yes?
RoboStac: I'd imagine so
MSmits: hmm but what if it's a really large circular reference and you're actually using it? Or is that not possible?
TBali: This is how it works in PHP https://www.php.net/manual/en/features.gc.php
1400179: Then it won't get GC
TBali: might be different from Java
MSmits: ah ok
1400179: GC only collects what cannot be referenced
1400179: From a root
MSmits: got it
jacek: could be a nice puzzle, to program GC behavior
MSmits: I guess I also understand now why gc can be so expensive
MSmits: it's BFS/DFS-ing everything in memory
MSmits: or floodfilling i guess
MSmits: better name for it
1400179: Btw it's not the only way to solve the circular ref problem
1400179: Weak refs are another way
TBali: Appeared in PHP 7.4 and more of it in PHP 8 just recently
MSmits: what's a weak ref?
TBali: never used it though
Astrobytes: doesn't increase the ref count for one thing
Astrobytes: but you can still hold the reference
MSmits: oh it's a low priority ref that leads to gc removing it if there is no other connection?
TBali: Weak references allow the programmer to retain a reference to an object which does not prevent the object from being destroyed. They are useful for implementing cache like structures.
TBali: "was a quote"
1400179: Doesn't have to be GC related
1400179: Concept exists in C++ as well
MSmits: ah ok, got it
1400179: Node and children
1400179: If parent and child are strong ref, you can't free the tree
1400179: If parent is weak ref, all is good
MSmits: mmh I just do parentIndex = 0 on my giant node cache :P
MSmits: I'm so horrible at c++
MSmits: I dont leak memory though
MSmits: i just claim it all in a giant object pool
1400179: That's a very legitimate allocation strategy
1400179: Maybe the oldest one
MSmits: yeah it's funny how windows will still just use your claimed memory
MSmits: I claim 1 gb and it will only show 200 mb in memory
1400179: There's a lot to say about that
1400179: Not sure it's worth it though
MSmits: dont bother, i sort of half know enough about it
MSmits: i just think it's funny it works that
MSmits: they had to work this out or programs would claim too much memory and not use it
MSmits: i guess
1400179: Let's just say it falls apart when you want your computer to do more than one thing
MSmits: sure, it works under the assumption you dont run out
TBali: Airline overbooking works the same not?
MSmits: yeah sounds similar TBali
MSmits: that would really piss me off
1400179: That's a creative analogy
TBali: Just do not appear all the ticket holders at the airport...
MSmits: or people taking all their savings out of the bank at once :0
TBali: even better analogy
JLukeSkywalker: finally hit lvl 20
TBali: I have friends working at bank branch office. Elderly custromer came in, "please show me my money" I don't wnat to take it out just show me that you have it
Astrobytes: So violent. What did lvl 20 ever do to you?
TBali: Beware lvl 20 fighters can hit back
TBali: or mages trun you to frog
JLukeSkywalker: it never called me back
TBali: But we do like frogs here at CG
PatrickMcGinnisII: there's your game cat v frog v dog, frogs have waterguns, cats have claws, and dogs have teeth
PatrickMcGinnisII: cats and dogs usually don't like getting sprayed
Astrobytes: Frogs should have venom or very sticky tongues.
Astrobytes: Regardless, it's RPS/
struct: it will get aproved anyways dont worry
1400179: Well no, frog is obviously OP
TBali: Are there other language where tongue and language is the same word?
TBali: HU as well
Astrobytes: Depends if it's actually poisonous or not
TBali: why PT-PT? BR-PT not?
PatrickMcGinnisII: trying to get 50 clashes, boring
Astrobytes: Yes, you can say tongue and language interchangeably in English too
struct: br-pt should be too
TBali: poll: what is your favourite coding tongue?
TBali: sounds weird
1400179: Please stop sticking out your language at me
Astrobytes: No, doesn't work like that.
ryantimjohn: but mother tongue does
struct: thats 2 words
1400179: Sure but same word means both ways
Astrobytes: In the context of speaking about language I should have said, my bad.
Astrobytes: As always, context is everything.
TBali: in context free grammars not
TBali: there was a puzzle
Astrobytes: Yeah yeah
TBali: and I remember íChomsky from the university
TBali: was a quite weird course
TBali: don't remember anything
TBali: just the guy's name
Astrobytes: Noam Chomsky is a fairly well known guy
TBali: yeah, and not a computer only
Astrobytes: Indeed. Much of his great work is outside the field of linguistics alone
TBali: but I met with his work only in the context of this semester course dealing with artificial grammars
Astrobytes: TBali: It's a tough subject (for me at least)
Astrobytes: Hi new here
TBali: at that time it sounded very theorethic. Maybe good if you plan to write a parser for a compiler.
TBali: Not sure if it is used in NLP?
jacek: or html parser
TBali: or NLP went completely the deep neural networks way
jacek: Nay Little Pony?
TBali: yes that one
Astrobytes: lol at your link jacek
TBali: regex was quite a mystery for me, I mean how can it be so fast,
TBali: Then I learned about KMP
TBali: last summer (did not know about this before)
TBali: But maybe regex is not using KMP
Astrobytes: regex matches patterns
TBali: yes, the deterministic state automatons can be extended also for patterns not just exact strings
TBali: my shallow knowledge on the topic comes from this course https://www.coursera.org/lecture/algorithms-part2/knuth-morris-pratt-TAtDr
Astrobytes: Hm. My knowledge isn't great either but I know that it's Yet Another Case of right tool, right job.
TBali: there was even a YACC in unix
TBali: Yer Another Compiler Compiler
TBali: implemented exactly the Chomsky parsing topic we discussed
Astrobytes: (hence my Y A C capitalisations)
TBali: Yet Another Coder Emitting Kode
TBali: okay, not the best one
TBali: With regexp as a (hobby) coder, my problem is that I don't use it on a weekly basis, so by the next time I need it, I always forget the syntax
TBali: Had to look up dozens of time already
TBali: I don't like code syntax not self-describing
Astrobytes: Yet Another Computationally Expensive Kill
jacek: what a coincedence. my app for android is call ya paper soccer - ya for yet another
Astrobytes: Yeah, if you don't use regex er, regularly, it can be a bit tricky to remember past the very basics
Astrobytes: Nice advertising there jacek. Didn't know you'd made an app. Does it sell?
TBali: yay = yet another yes
jacek: its free. i released it about 5 years ago
Astrobytes: Ah ok
jacek: it was actually my first serious ai project
TBali: is it same as the multi?
TBali: (which I did not try, just see it )
jacek: sry for advertising
1400179: ban inc
TBali: cool, congrats
TBali: this is just okay self promotion imho
TBali: does it plays against human?
PatrickMcGinnisII: 1 clash left for 50
jacek: ai and human, via wifi or bluetooth
TBali: Patrick, 50 ? go for the 500 achievement
Astrobytes: PatrickMcGinnisII: you're trying to get the achievement?
jacek: paper soccer as paper and pencil game is pretty popular in poland' schools
1400179: DONT SCREAM
struct: what is ansed?
MSmits: did you fall down a well owent3877?
Astrobytes: owent3877: 42.314^59266
Astrobytes: damn, missed a digit
MSmits: the 42 is in there, thats enough answer
Astrobytes: What's that Skippy? Owen's fallen down the well?
MSmits: was this a dolphin or a kangaroo
MSmits: i forgot
Astrobytes: Flipper is the dolphin
MSmits: ahhh ok
Astrobytes: Skippy's the kangaroo
MSmits: got it
Astrobytes: Lassie was the dog
MSmits: keep going
TBali: jacek - I did not this one in particular. I used to play a "car race" paper-pencil game on grid. Have to go fastest through a track , where each turn you can modify your movement vector by 1 only
MSmits: ed was the horse right?
1400179: Let me guess, homework?
Astrobytes: I'm all out of animals MSmits
Astrobytes: and lol
MSmits: you forgot ed
Astrobytes: How could I forget Mister Ed
MSmits: a horse is a horse is a horse
MSmits: of course
1400179: Let me guess, homework?
Astrobytes: VR Zombies would be quite something
MSmits: it's not hard, you cant die
MSmits: he just shoots all the zombies
1400179: Why do you 'need' it?
TBali: but with the answers in your hand, yu still "cant do it"
MSmits: but he has the answers TBali, he doesnt need to, then
1400179: Ok. So why do you 'need' the answer?
Astrobytes: oh looks like one of our trolls again
MSmits: owent3877 you're not allowed to play zombie games, they're 12+
MSmits: too much blood/gore
MSmits: it's safe
MSmits: you will develop mental issues
struct: good enough
MSmits: not safe i mean
1400179: Yeah we figured.
1400179: Start by answering my question, why do you 'need' it?
Astrobytes: I'm doing it right now
MSmits: you're doing the batman thing?
Astrobytes: I'm sure everyone will join in as you asked
TBali: this conversation gets weirder by the minute
Astrobytes: "all do the bat man thing"
MSmits: oh right
MSmits: let me go suit up
MSmits: reCurse, you can be Robin
Astrobytes: I'm doing the "BLAM! KAPOW! SPLAT" thing and nananana'ing around the small area of my chair seat.
1400179: Can't tell who's the bigger troll here
1400179: Can you explain what you need?
Astrobytes: owent3877: Talk sense
Astrobytes: Or you get rubbish as a reply.
MSmits: I think he just got here randomly
1400179: You ask for something, I ask you why
PatrickMcGinnisII: huh, quest map isn't updating
Astrobytes: What are you trying to do? Program? Or play a game?
MSmits: maybe we just should stop feeding the troll and let reCurse finish his responsible moderating
PatrickMcGinnisII: oh i had to click it
Astrobytes: You think reCurse isn't feeding it MSmits? :)
1400179: Doesn't sound like a troll, but you guys sure are
TBali: Owen, there is a forum thread with some hints
TBali: You might start by xhecking this out
MSmits: I guess we were assuming he was a troll, when he's actually serious
PatrickMcGinnisII: batman thing? Ahh, you know chicks think they are a sexy harleyquinn ... that just means they date jokers
Astrobytes: Sounds like most of the trolls/idiotic randoms we get throughout the day: "GIVE ME THE ANSWER"
1400179: Sounds like a genuine 10yr old to me
1400179: Might want to get your senses checked out
**MSmits goes to fix his troll radar
1400179: What are you trying to do?
**Astrobytes checks his senses
TBali: If you find Zombies too hard try an easiwer one
Astrobytes: Have you solved other puzzles Owen?
MSmits: owent3877 do you know a little bit of coding? If you can't code at all it might be better to go to a learning website such as codecademy.com or others
struct: owent3877 the easiest way to solve cvz
MSmits: the idea is, if you're on CG, you know at least the bare minimum in language
struct: is to move to the closest zombie
MSmits: such as loops/conditions/input/print
MSmits: in 1 language i mean
TBali: move to the closest zombie almost works but not 100%
struct: it is 100%
struct: I think
1400179: 100% is moving to closest human
struct: oh right
MSmits: yeah that works
Astrobytes: owent3877: which puzzles have you solved so far?
struct: Thats what i wanted to say
MSmits: did you solve the descent, thor etc?
Astrobytes: which != how many
MSmits: i suggest you keep doing more easy puzzles
MSmits: optim arena's are a bit harder
MSmits: zombies is an optimization arena
Astrobytes: What you're doing.
MSmits: and those are harder
MSmits: than easy puzzles
TBali: Practice menu up at top of screen
TBali: the select easy
TBali: or https://www.codingame.com/training/easy
MSmits: also our apologies for making fun of you earlier owent3877, we get players who are trolls here sometimes
jacek: or solve puzzle of the week
MSmits: no, we thought you were a troll, but it seems like you're not
TBali: For the beginning few puzzles, what CG suggests as next is usually fine
MSmits: so, sorry about that
MSmits: good question
Astrobytes: I always reserve judgment.
TBali: Shoot firs, ask later
TBali: that is my motto
MSmits: trolling means players come here and then pretend they dont understand anything, call people names and such
MSmits: use bad words etc.
Astrobytes: Then how would you know to say: "what would i troll for?"
TBali: Check Astrobytes and myself: we are trolls
MSmits: not really
Astrobytes: Out-trolled you jacek. Slacking ponyboy, slacking!
Astrobytes: owent3877: Back to the subject in hand
struct: Should I write meta for amazons
struct: to test?
MSmits: struct i doubt there is a point
MSmits: meta mcts only works if you can get some depth in the search
Astrobytes: Player test struct
struct: I need a heater
Astrobytes: owent3877: We have established this Owen.
struct: should be enough
MSmits: best thing you can do if you have the time is try to find from literature what are good moves and try to write a good bot
MSmits: or wait for tric trac to do it]
struct: I guess I need to find a good paper
struct: there are thousands on it
Astrobytes: The reason I suggested Amazons for CG in the first place is because it's a highly studied game
MSmits: it's also interesting because the usual approaches to board games won't work here
TBali: Owen here are some of teh easy puzzles with the highest success rate: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/ca7406f2-9d7c-4ee2-a88c-01ce9a28a0ee
MSmits: like D&B, it's also the case there that you cant just slap a typical minimax on there
Astrobytes: Exactly MSmits. Well, certain combinations of them for sure
Astrobytes: Yes. Additional complexity.
MSmits: owent3877, use TBali's list
MSmits: (pinged him)
Astrobytes: reCurse: did you see tric tracs Fireworks contribution? (basically Hanabi)
MSmits: click on TBali's link
MSmits: do those puzzles
MSmits: they are probably some of the easiest available
TBali: need to copy in browser
struct: you need to copy the link and paste in the browser
TBali: or 1by1 here
Astrobytes: These are the easiest outside of the official CG ones?
TBali: not sure but over 90% success rate
TBali: (I hope he is not a troll, working so much for help... :-) )
TBali: Spoon is a good choice!
TBali: Episode 1 I mean
Astrobytes: owent3877: Did you finish ascii art?
TBali: What language do you use?
Astrobytes: Well... why move on?
TBali: That's the spirit!
TBali: actually CG is good for practice what you already KNOW, but not the best to learn a language from scratch
TBali: You can find tutorial of your choice for your language (whixh you did not specify, crap is not a language) and come back to CG a bit later
MSmits: I'm not convinced of that TBali
TBali: If you are 10 and did 3 puzzles in a real programming language, you already do great. I was 11 when I had my first code written
MSmits: there's rockstar, brainfk, shakespeare, emoji, why not crap
Astrobytes: Based on the time you have spent on these puzzles, you'd find tictactoe hard to play on paper.
TBali: Msmith, I don't dare to think about the reserved words in craplang
Astrobytes: TBali: type MSm and press tab
TBali: my mistype ratio is 20%
MSmits: there's so many words for crap
TBali: and no correct in webchat
MSmits: it would be a great language
MSmits: bye owent3877
TBali: bye, and don't give up coding
Astrobytes: Welp. We tried the educational approach, we tried the anti-troll approach, we tried reasoning, we tried directing to puzzles, we failed.
TBali: and not being able to correct myself after hitting enter is like unix mail
Astrobytes: owent3877: that's probably a better idea, codingame is not good to learn your first language.
TBali: eulers #1 spot is spared
TBali: python is a good start
TBali: google helps me
TBali: never tried this one
BlaiseEbuth: Pay to win...
Astrobytes: We don't want the link for screeps thank you.
Astrobytes: You already play screeps then owent3877?
Astrobytes: Got put off by the JS thing, you can compile other langs now these days right?
MSmits: go here #OfficialScreepsChannel
TBali: With so much altruism in me I won't finish this C++ video tut today...
Astrobytes: Statement of the year TBali
TBali: Chat should be banned if one has other stuff to do
MSmits: best is to go to the #OtherStuff channel and not say anything there
TBali: only 75 mins to go.. tommorrow
TBali: I create a LonelyTrollClub
MSmits: that's cool
MSmits: Is jacek moderating it?
TBali: yes, kicks and bans me all the time
MSmits: he does that
TBali: I tried also /dev/nulll
Astrobytes: TBali: "Chat should be banned if one has other stuff to do " - no, it's a question of focus.
Astrobytes: Yeah. Do that.
TBali: not juts focus, it is question of multitask. I am too old for that
Astrobytes: How old are you again TBali?
TBali: My mum told me not to reveal my age online. There are bad men
TBali: with innocent cat avatar
TBali: Me too. And I started coding at 11
TBali: C64 BASIC
Astrobytes: TBali: OK you won the trolling
BlaiseEbuth: Yeah beware of the skirt-wearing men with cute cat avatars...
TBali: I am slightly younger than C
MSmits: So, D
Astrobytes: no wait
Astrobytes: It's late
Astrobytes: D indeed
MSmits: would it help if i said i also wanted to type B a split second before i said D
Astrobytes: lexical vs chronological meh
Astrobytes: BlaiseEbuth: :rofl:
TBali: almost same old as Intel 8080
TBali: but I age better :-)
TBali: or that is how I think
Astrobytes: Not wrong I suppose
owent3877: im doing http://www.flexboxdefense.com/
TBali: But my memory can be adressed in 3-4 bits
TBali: and my max clock rate is 1 instructions per minute
TBali: (lucky there is no moderator here to kick me)
TBali: ops, there is
**BlaiseEbuth slaps TBali around a bit with a large kick.
**Astrobytes slaps BlaiseEbuth around a bit with a large HAGGIS and eats a nice buttery piece of kouign-amann
BlaiseEbuth: Can I have some ? :yum:
Astrobytes: (I confess to the lies. I have none. It's been a month or 2 since I made any :( )
TBali: Blaise how did you do that. Immediately after the kick I lost my wifi connection
TBali: Conspiracy theory is proven - next year math Wolf prize winner
BlaiseEbuth: Meh... I gonna dream about eating kouign-amann... See ya
TBali: At least I learned something new today (kouign-amann) despite the stopped video
TBali: looks yummy
TBali: How is this webchat "chuck norris roundhouse kick" works? you can write anything after a prefix?
TBali: * kick
TBali: soes not work for me mere mortal
MYBK: Hello everybody, does anyone, knows how to approach Shadows of the Knight - Episode 2 ? I don't think binary search is enough to solve it... thanks
TBali: binary search independently by axis was almost enough for me but not completely for some tests.
TBali: I had some trouble and tweaking and finally got it, but don't remember exactly how
MYBK: Emm I see, thank you for your response I will try I little bit more than. :D
TBali: The problem is when you change from x to y, you loose extra turn
TBali: that was needed to be saved
Astrobytes: TBali: type /me followed by some words
MYBK: thanks TBali for your help :)
**TBali slaps power around a bit with a large fishbot
**TBali slaps self around a bit with a large fishbot
TBali: soo much fun
**TBali is feeling young again
TBali: I thought it was a moderator thing
**TBali stops messing around with webchat commands
**Astrobytes kicks TBali gently