From CG community
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Default avatar.png IOI2020: how to get more xp

Uljahn: solve puzzles, promote in multiplayers, unlock achievements

struct: morning

thanhhv317: here is afternoon

Default avatar.png cnmdcbg: hey

Default avatar.png TheBigBadGhost_936a: hello

Default avatar.png cnmdcbg: 你好

jacek: good morning

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: o/

Default avatar.png zhoubou: :hand_splayed:

Default avatar.png ivnbcr: hi all

Default avatar.png Passifi: top of the morning to you fellas and felicitases

Default avatar.png Angecide: morning all, I have been trying to understand mcts solver lately, so my ultra high level understanding is that it is just a regular mcts until the a node in the tree reaches a terminal stage, in which case the algo tries to prove/disprove the move path? does this sound correct?

Default avatar.png Angecide: since at the start, it is impossible to prove anything since the search space i huge, but once u reach mid/lategame, the search space is small and the algo can start to get more confident

Default avatar.png Angecide: and I am still gold in uttt, turns out my huge performance boost didn't add anything since my mcts algo is not converging that well, I think it is too random in design + perhaps I shouldn't have used a xorshit8bit prng since it isn't really that random + potential bugs

struct: how many rollouts do you get?

Default avatar.png Angecide: 40k or something, so something is definitely wrong

jacek: try xorshift64

jacek: and those rollouts should be enough for legend

jacek: as for mcts solver. what do you do if you encounter final state in selection?

Default avatar.png Angecide: I just return the value back up, as if it was the result of a simulation

Default avatar.png Angecide: like for my normal mcts

jacek: ok

Default avatar.png Angecide: I am still in the process of understand what mcts solver is and how it differs from the normal algo

jacek: my solver gave 55-60% winrate, but still it should be enough for legend

Default avatar.png Angecide: ye going through all the replays my ai played, I found one instance where I did an "invalid action", so I need to go on a bug hunt, since I presume my algo is converging badly because of false premise of the state of the game

jacek: happy bug hunting then

jacek: mcts solver is quite simple. it is just the mcts solver is complicated

jacek: mcts olver paper*

k4ng0u: Angecide, my bot only have around 8k per turn and passed to Legend. Do you do full random rollouts or do you have some early exits? typically in my rollouts when I have a winning move, I ignore the othres and just play it. This prunes a lot of unrelevant states

Default avatar.png Angecide: I do a very bad (but fast) pseudo random rollout, but I believe adding heuristics such as always playing winning moves and avoiding losing moves could help too

Uljahn: also exploration coefficient can cause bad convergence, have you tried to vary it?

Default avatar.png Angecide: ye, so my current definition of evaluating whether or not my mcts is converging is by checking if it forces the enemy player onto the same board (if possible) during the very early stages of the game

k4ng0u: avoiding losing moves is a depth 1 simulation for each move, it would be too time consuming. Also note that it would be covered on your opponent turn by always playing winning moves

Default avatar.png Angecide: like even after 40 secs of searching, it doesn't recommend forcing enemly player onto the same board, so i suspect something is wrong

codybumba: If anybody is interested in CoC please join this private clash -

darkhorse64: This is an heuristic which took years to find so it is not surpising your bot does not find it. Re solver, remember you can backpropagate solved nodes: if you have a win, it means the parent is a loss, if all children are losses, it means the parent is a win and so on. This way you can predict a game result 10 to 20 plies in advance

jacek: darkhorse64 my bot can find it most of the time with less than 5 seconds

Default avatar.png Angecide: ahh I think it is making sense now, it was a bit unclear from the paper, but I am starting to grasp what mcts solver is and that it is really not that complicated

jacek: another mcts solver paper victim

darkhorse64: Only the first 100 ms matter to me:grinning:

darkhorse64: Basically, that's what the paper says but it does not really need several pages

darkhorse64: low cost optim, high reward

Default avatar.png Angecide: ye now with the intuition in place, it makes sense when reading the paper again

darkhorse64: jacek: you seem to have improved your C4 bot lately. Did my code help ? Did you see any difference between AVX and scalar ?

jacek: i trained n-tuple. i switched from pure mcts to jacekmax

Default avatar.png Angecide: jacekmax :thinking:

darkhorse64: Great but that does not help me. I have some planned improvements but there is no point to do it now before approval. How many weights ? Straight or random ?

Default avatar.png Angecide: nvm I found the playground article

jacek: every row-of-4, theres 126 of them. i didnt reduce for symmetry

jacek: and i didnt try your code

darkhorse64: To make things clear, I would have had no problem with it. I shared it after all

jacek: well if you would have problem, i wouldnt confess :)

darkhorse64: :relaxed:

jacek: meh i registered to the computer draughts forum, but it is admin activated :c

Default avatar.png Kokoz: anyone want to help with a noob question?

jacek: you mean 2 questions

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: lol

Default avatar.png Kokoz: no, only one

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: kokoz u already asked one ;-)

darkhorse64: ^

darkhorse64: kokoz: go ahead

jacek: meaybe he really meant 1 question

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: hehe jokes on us

Default avatar.png Kokoz: so, I have a list [2, 3, 6, 7] How to get the diffference between every number and all numbers before it?? like this: 3-2, 6-3, 6-2, 7-6, 7-3, 7-2

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: Think about using the modulo operator

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: Actually no I'm dumb :) think about using nested loops

darkhorse64: is it for the horses race ?

Default avatar.png Kokoz: I am actually trying to make a nested loop but I dont know how to write it :\

Default avatar.png Kokoz: No.. I finished the horse race puzzle

darkhorse64: a for loop inside the for loop

darkhorse64: for() { for () {} }

struct: you make a inner loop that goes from current pos to position 0

struct: i=0;i<end;++i j=i-1;j>=0;--j

Default avatar.png Kokoz: I tried something like that but I guess I wrote it wrong.. I will play around more, thank you

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: Kokoz what language are you using?

Default avatar.png Kokoz: Python


SPDene: kokoz ^ that was message for you

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: How do you make such pastebins?

SPDene: just paste enough text, and it will auto-convert it

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: oh okay thanks!

Default avatar.png Kokoz: Ohhh, thank you SPDene, I was so close with my code :D My mistake was that I put the a = x[i] in the second loop.. Which was dumb

Default avatar.png Kokoz: Soo, everything is fine untill the input has a huge amount of information.. Then my code cant handle it

struct: yeah, you can do this with 1 loop only

struct: oh wait

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: What puzzle are you on?

struct: maybe not

Default avatar.png Kokoz: Stock exchange losses

SPDene: not seem that one before - but I don't think you need the differences for ALL the previous values - just the *highest* value efore now

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: ^ thats right

Default avatar.png Kokoz: so in that case [1, 2, 4, 4, 5] what will be the result?

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: 0

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: Are you sorting the values?

Default avatar.png Kokoz: no

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: In [1, 2, 4, 4, 5] there is no drop, all numbers are >= to the one before

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: so highest loss is 0

Default avatar.png Kokoz: Exactly

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: So then what is the problem?

Default avatar.png Kokoz: I still have to use loop to check all other numbers

Default avatar.png Kokoz: I have an idea

Default avatar.png Kokoz: so if the input is sorted then in all cases there is no lost..

Default avatar.png Kokoz: Nice, thank youu C:

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: did you manage? :)

Default avatar.png Kokoz: not yet, but on the right track :D

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: good good

Default avatar.png Salman2301:

Default avatar.png Salman2301: join

Murleys: Why can't we choose which mode to play in clash of code ... I've had shortest code 5 games in a row and its old ...

jacek: only in private clash

Default avatar.png Salman2301:

Default avatar.png Salman2301: I had the fastest mode I am just not ready for that

lopidav: >Why can't we choose which mode. I guess the whole system will have to be redesigned. People would learn Ruby/Perl and play shortest exclusively

RoboStac: plus there are already bots to get enough players for it to work without splitting it further

READY: I am READY for that, Salman2301

Default avatar.png TheMightyTopHat_dc86: Me i am all out

Default avatar.png Pad0000001: In the AI pod racing stuff, can i check out others' code?

jacek: CSB? no

Default avatar.png JM54: Soon may the wellerman come to bring us sugar and tea and rum

Astrobytes: WTF. Since when do people sing sea shanties on the reg.

Default avatar.png JM54: Since today

jacek: mhm

Astrobytes: lol, that's an old one

jacek: youre cheating on me with another meme source?

Astrobytes: No I remember the story, from years ago. Something about bood types iirc

Astrobytes: *blood

eulerscheZahl: moin

Default avatar.png Almost404: hello guys im new here and i am having tones of fun

Default avatar.png Almost404: this is great

Astrobytes: afternoon euler

Default avatar.png Almost404: sad i didnt see this sooner

Astrobytes: Well it's not gonna disappear so you still have time Almost404

eulerscheZahl: you mean: "sad I didn't see this soccer" here it is:

Default avatar.png Almost404: im happy i also made today my first problem contribution anyone wants to see it?

Astrobytes: oO

Default avatar.png JM54: As a beginner in code and barely starting to learn python, the puzzles in this game are way beyond my understanding

Astrobytes: JM54: the site does assume familiarity and a certain level of competence in your language

Astrobytes: It's not an absolute beginner-friendly site.

Default avatar.png JM54: dang

Default avatar.png JM54: sucks i got assigned this then

eulerscheZahl: who assigned it to you?

eulerscheZahl: a teacher?

Default avatar.png JM54: My CSP teacher

Default avatar.png bobth: some puzzles are super easy but most will need some experience imo

Astrobytes: Just practice with the language a bit more and you should be able to do some of the easy puzzles

Default avatar.png JM54: Noted, thanks

SPDene: also be aware that some "easy" puzzles are a lot more difficult than others

Astrobytes: ^

Default avatar.png JM54: Ok

darkhorse64: However, a good advice is to separate coding from algorithm. Do some paper reasoning first and then, only then, translate it into code

Default avatar.png bobth: pseudocode is very helpful

Default avatar.png JM54: :thumbsup_tone3:

BlaiseEbuth: Paper ? What is this ?

eulerscheZahl: or less fun. even thibaud mentioning Defibrilators here

Astrobytes: Yep, very sound advice.

Astrobytes: lol euler, right

Default avatar.png JM54: onm

eulerscheZahl: i'd add aneo to that list

jacek: hm?

eulerscheZahl: BlaiseEbuth I found that paper:

darkhorse64: There is no data parsing which is really the worst

jacek: a sketch? like that one before?

Default avatar.png AnalPainGiver:

Astrobytes: you still have that jacek?

BlaiseEbuth: Thanks eulerscheZahl, I was wrong, I thought that paper was slices of innocent tree corpses...

jacek: on my personal comp, not here

eulerscheZahl: i will neither complain about the clash link nor the username

jacek: Oo

eulerscheZahl: we want to engage more newcomers :)

Astrobytes: Same.

BlaiseEbuth: Frfllf... :shrug:

jacek: i see smits still posting c4 moves

jacek: and 0 seems to be losing after all

Astrobytes: Is that the move that was oscillating?

jacek: yes

Default avatar.png AnalPainGiver: I am looking for enaging clash of clans where all the opponents are live on twitch

Default avatar.png AnalPainGiver: code*

jacek: oh my

BlaiseEbuth: your what ?

Default avatar.png Almost404: is this too hard for a clash?

Default avatar.png ChampionCoder: I felt it was, don't strike me down for that

Default avatar.png ChampionCoder: I felt it was hard

Default avatar.png Almost404: check it again I redid the solution, literally the solution is 1 line after data ready

Default avatar.png ChampionCoder: Oh ok

Default avatar.png ChampionCoder: :+1:

Default avatar.png ChampionCoder: looks better now

eulerscheZahl: "Every quarter of what's left he stops for air because he is fat." isn't that an infinite sequence?

Default avatar.png Almost404: tks maybe i shouldn't have made a detailed solution it made it look it was harder than it actually was

Default avatar.png Almost404: that's true let me fix that

Uljahn: kinda hard yes, 'cause you need several minutes just to read and understand the statement

SinOfWrath: Also by doing integer division in your solution, I'm fairly certain it's incorrect when speed is not a divisor of 100.

SPDene: Almost404 "Velocity = Time = Distance/Velocity" confuses me. did you redefine the laws of physics? :P

Default avatar.png ChampionCoder: :sweat_smile:

Default avatar.png Almost404: sleep deprivation is getting me :joy:

Default avatar.png ChampionCoder: By the way, why is "fat" in bold? Just make it normal, not bold

Default avatar.png Almost404: discard this shiet i tryed need to review this

eulerscheZahl: "fat" in fat text? makes sense to me :P

Default avatar.png ChampionCoder: Lol

kovi: old impressive start on cg (and nice background, started programming/boardgames earlier than me)

Default avatar.png ChampionCoder: Sorry?

Astrobytes: He worked alongside Buro and Le Renard

eulerscheZahl: Buro?

Astrobytes: Michael Buro

darkhorse64: We are getting more and more smart people

eulerscheZahl: i guess i'm not up to date with the users anymore

Astrobytes: (of Logistello fame amongs many other things)

Astrobytes: Did Le Renard create Thor?

Astrobytes: (othello program)

jacek: this old john was having books wars with smits in othello

Astrobytes: Still is afaik

kovi: i have just noticed him, as he jumped to #3 in d&b

jacek: still losing, yes

MSmits: he stopped for now. I think we agreed to a draw

MSmits: (not sure though)

eulerscheZahl: a draw with you above him on the leaderboard

MSmits: i do better against other players

MSmits: interesting about D&B

MSmits: I'll try a resubmit with random on. My current submit is deterministic

MSmits: (this version did better vs remi)

MSmits: i should say, i use fixed seed currently, i'll change to a time based seed

eulerscheZahl: so the survey results are out


eulerscheZahl: i modified the URL a bit to confuse their tracking of how we got there :P

MSmits: is codingame the nr 1 tech hiring platform?

MSmits: or is this just advertising?

eulerscheZahl: yes. source: CodinGame

MSmits: lol

eulerscheZahl: there are some other big players like Hackerrank and Hackerearth

MSmits: I see

MSmits: isnt linkedin a tech hiring platform also, technically?

eulerscheZahl: not sure if CG really is the #1. by what metric even?

eulerscheZahl: hm, good point

eulerscheZahl: maybe tech hiring = coding assessments in the understanding of CG marketing

MSmits: could be

eulerscheZahl: let's just say: be careful what you read and don't believe anything

MSmits: oh I am that, I was just wondering

eulerscheZahl: so: don't believe me when I say that

MSmits: surely you are an exception

eulerscheZahl: the truthful toad

MSmits: yeah

eulerscheZahl: now i'm still at page 1 of that survey

MSmits: sorry

eulerscheZahl: "48% of companies offer developers the possibility to work 100% remotely" how to measure that?

MSmits: maybe this just was a question?

eulerscheZahl: they only ask for the company size in that survey, not the company itself. how to find duplicate companies?

MSmits: oh

jacek: :thinking:

eulerscheZahl: because it's about companies that allow remote and not devs working remotely

MSmits: that might be problematic yeah

jacek: more remote last year i presume

eulerscheZahl: let's take notes for when Thibaud posts it on the forum or discord

MSmits: do you want to open a thread: "questions from the 5%" ?

eulerscheZahl: 5% that cause 50% of Thibauds work :P

MSmits: no doubt about that

darkhorse64: 50% headache also

jrke: can anyone just tell me that what happened yesterday brainstorming on discord in breif?

eulerscheZahl: too bad inoryy wasn't there yesterday :popcorn:

eulerscheZahl: Thibaud summarized it on the forum


MSmits: allright, so basically D&B is like: Miklla 1st, then the next 3 as a group. Therés no clear 2-3-4 order

darkhorse64: There have been some clarifications from Thibaud and G-Rom. One thing is sure; community contests are gone. There might more regular, fast events

eulerscheZahl: and you allow miklla to do that?

MSmits: eulerscheZahl not in the long term ofc :)

MSmits: D&B is a very complicated multi, i cant improve my bot ina day

eulerscheZahl: but these "fast events" don't sound like original content at all

jrke: MSmits thinks deep in life as well as in bot

eulerscheZahl: just some old meal in the microwave

eulerscheZahl: so at least I am not interested

jacek: fast event? clash wars?

eulerscheZahl: also

darkhorse64: No news from AshKetchum. No C4 yet

eulerscheZahl: some extended version of the puzzle of the week with more featuring

MSmits: jrke thanks, i take that as a compliment :P

jacek: no news for the chess either

jrke: MSmits that was the compliment ,nothing else

eulerscheZahl: fireworks at 2 approval votes

eulerscheZahl: i just opened it to dive into it

MSmits: it's original enough

eulerscheZahl: then survey, then chat

eulerscheZahl: i'm easy to distract

MSmits: me too, I actually should go grade some christmas postcards

eulerscheZahl: you teach arts now?

eulerscheZahl: in elementary school

MSmits: mmh i guess kinda

MSmits: this is a python turtle assignment

eulerscheZahl: aah

MSmits: they had to draw a sun, trees, road, snow, text all with python code

eulerscheZahl: my first thought: there must be a 2nd meaning for "grade" but let's nag smits with it

MSmits: hehe it's just 3 possible grades

MSmits: fail, sufficient, good

MSmits: so it's not hard to grade

eulerscheZahl: do you also grade the code style or just the outcome?

MSmits: this is the very first time they code anything in their life basically

MSmits: so style is not really an issue

eulerscheZahl: except for indents

MSmits: well it has to work :P

eulerscheZahl: i'm on page 3 of the survey already

jrke: survey? which survey?


eulerscheZahl: i invented a new utm_medium key just to confuse Thibaud or whoever reviews that

MSmits: this is my D&B submit, pretty clear:

jacek: anyone expert with keras (python)? how could i efficiently train network with sparse inputs, like 64 ones and 1500 zeros


MSmits: wrecked by miklla

eulerscheZahl: when you have to clarify that keras = python, that user clearly isn't an expert in it

jacek: MSmits you get pwnd by miklla

MSmits: yes

jacek: dunno, maybe there is keras c#, i may never know

jrke: why my endgame solver is looking like this -

jrke: :(

jacek: interesting

MSmits: well you won that one though jrke

MSmits: jacek i actually know why he wins

eulerscheZahl: i'm a kera expert: kera finished 4th in the Ghost in the Cell contest

jrke: just random seed but my endgame solver is bugged

MSmits: it's very well documented how to play this game and it's hard to code a bot for it

MSmits: he counts chains

MSmits: you see he has a typical strategy of forming the right number of chains

MSmits: he doesnt just randomly place lines

MSmits: my bot is random for 50 plies

MSmits: of course that's gonna fail against anyone who knows what they're doing in ply 1-50

karliso: wow, clean 100% submits...

jacek: fix your uttt bot

karliso: :D

MSmits: oh, right karliso, i wonder if re curse 's bot is really stronger than yours or he just picked one that is strong against your current choice of bot

MSmits: try to make a small alteration

MSmits: then test it

eulerscheZahl: oh, he submitted his NN now

jacek: oh and im not the only one with misleading eval

MSmits: after all i was able to get 100% as p1 vs your current bot, so a trained nn may get lucky on one iteration also

karliso: yea, I looked at it. I think I had like 33% as white and 34% as balck...

MSmits: thats very interesting

jacek: see how robo in 54 says 0.92 while clealy losing

jacek: white black in uttt? o.O

MSmits: i am just guesing white is p1

MSmits: guessing

karliso: yeah, I tend to forget who is ) and who is X

MSmits: X is first :P

MSmits: it's weird though karliso, something is off here

MSmits: no way should your p1 bot have 33%

MSmits: not even vs a perfect playing bot

MSmits: the disadvantage of p2 is too large

MSmits: I am guessing almost every game is the same

MSmits: with 2 deterministic bots

MSmits: and you just make the same mistake every time

MSmits: or at least, maybe there are only 8 variations of game or something like that. Seen it a lot

karliso: anyway, I will have a reason to improve my bot

MSmits: yeah, me too, but still got other things to do first

MSmits: I want to fix my cotr and make a real solver

jacek: cotr?

MSmits: that bilbo optim

jacek: bilbo optim?

MSmits: make words

eulerscheZahl: coders of the realm?

MSmits: code of the ring?

Astrobytes: Code of the rings

eulerscheZahl: i blame Bob for reassigning that acronym

MSmits: my current submit is done by hand

MSmits: rank 52 with typed up solution :P

eulerscheZahl: mine is partially by hand

MSmits: i am guesing the loopy ones

MSmits: guessing

eulerscheZahl: sure

eulerscheZahl: didn't do the last testcase by hand :D

MSmits: I did :P

eulerscheZahl: what score on that alone?

MSmits: only took 3 hours or so

MSmits: not sure, but it's pretty good

MSmits: i thought a lot about reusing boxes and such

MSmits: pretty sure a simple beamsearch would beat it though

eulerscheZahl: you just have to run your code once to check :rolling_eyes:

MSmits: code?

eulerscheZahl: hardcode

eulerscheZahl: just execute whatever mess you caused

Astrobytes: lol

MSmits: lemme check

eulerscheZahl: and give me a number so i know if it's worth to improve that alone

eulerscheZahl: i'm at 1393

MSmits: ok sec

MSmits: 1402 frames, is that the score?

eulerscheZahl: no

eulerscheZahl: hover over that green testcase play thing

darkhorse64: I can see how a BS could minimize the steps needed to build the strings but you will need a post process for loops

MSmits: dont think the big testcase uses a loop anywhere

eulerscheZahl: yeah, those loops make it hard

MSmits: says the magic phrase is incomplete

eulerscheZahl: testcase vs validator

darkhorse64: Right.

eulerscheZahl: you didn't hardcode the test it seems

MSmits: no just the validators

MSmits: but the last one is identical almost

MSmits: rigt?

MSmits: right?

eulerscheZahl: no

kovi: luring of the dark side...

eulerscheZahl: last letter is removed in the validator

MSmits: yeah so almost

MSmits: how do you calculate score from character count?

MSmits: is it just the same?

eulerscheZahl: oh wait, that 1393 was an online solution

eulerscheZahl: because i didn't find it in my book

MSmits: the number of frames = character count

MSmits: so 1402

MSmits: i pasted in a text file

darkhorse64: right on the fact that there are no loops on the last sentence. Maybe for the ring word ?

eulerscheZahl: 1332 on the validator

MSmits: so my score is 1402 by hand

MSmits: pretty nice right

eulerscheZahl: my code is slightly better

MSmits: yeah

eulerscheZahl: also without loops

MSmits: i just did this because I wanted to get past the quest

eulerscheZahl: so i'm missing points somewhere else

MSmits: but then dbdr said, why not just do a beamsearch

MSmits: and i was like... damn

eulerscheZahl: but where is dbdr?

MSmits: dunno

Astrobytes: Still no word from him?

eulerscheZahl: i miss you, my little prince

MSmits: thats not creepy at all

Astrobytes: :o

eulerscheZahl: still running through dungeons

Astrobytes: lol

MSmits: is he playing Dnd?

Astrobytes: No...

Astrobytes: His avatar

eulerscheZahl: :facepalm:

MSmits: o right

MSmits: went woosh

eulerscheZahl: he's gone for so long, you forgot about him

MSmits: no no, just the pic

Astrobytes: Hope he's OK

MSmits: hes not been gone *that* long

MSmits: less than a week isnt it?

Astrobytes: No

eulerscheZahl: much longer

MSmits: hmm

MSmits: maybe it seems shorter because i havent been that active

MSmits: has he never been away before?

eulerscheZahl: not for long at least

MSmits: hm ok

MSmits: well i too hope he is ok, he's part of the CG furniture

MSmits: he's the chair, you're the couch euler

eulerscheZahl: and Automaton2000 is the old couch that no one wants to pick up even you placed it online as "free for pickup"

Automaton2000: do you guys know how to turn it into a pastebin

MSmits: he's the bin

eulerscheZahl: i understood the CG survey now. they also asked companies/HR guys. not only coders

MSmits: ah

jacek: did they hire AutomatonNN

AutomatonNN: cool

MSmits: I think they only hire non-binary

Astrobytes: He's here all week folks...

MSmits: :)

jacek: hm?

Sentinel25B: yo

Sentinel25B: whats up

MSmits: enum { up = 0, .. }

MSmits: hi :)

eulerscheZahl: int[] dx = {0,1,0,-1}; int[] dy = {1,0,-1,0};

MSmits: works


MSmits: I imagine if my wife didnt order all my clothes I would only be wearing stuff like that

Astrobytes: lol, I forgot about your 'arrangement'

MSmits: hehe yeah

eulerscheZahl: you aren't allowed to look like a nerd? :D

MSmits: if I pressed the issue I suppose i probably could have one nerdy day a month, if i didnt have to leave the house that day

eulerscheZahl: for your monthly needs

eulerscheZahl: but beware of the dryer

MSmits: good stuff

Astrobytes: You need the purple tentacle one MSmits

therealbeef: tentacle looks good for winter

MSmits: lol

Astrobytes: The Gandalf asymptote...

eulerscheZahl: i like those nonsense sentences

Astrobytes: Facehugger scarf, now we're talking.

Astrobytes: My favourite t-shirt currently is my "You read my t-shirt. That's enough social interaction for one day"

jacek: so nerdy

Astrobytes: And I didn't know it would be so apt for COVID-times when I got it.

miklla: someone summoned me by red signals :)

jacek: or maybe you knew it ?thinking:

miklla: found out D&B at end of december, love from first sight :)

miklla: as TRON :)

jacek: tron and d&b? huh?

miklla: multis

jacek: what do they have in common

eulerscheZahl: suum cuique

miklla: grids and simplicity of mechanics

jacek: 'simplicity'

Astrobytes: you and your latin euler

eulerscheZahl: sorry, was tortured for too long

jacek: quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur

eulerscheZahl: also: Ich und mein deutsch :P

jacek: schmeterrling!

Astrobytes: charliebus sittibus on the deskinorum

miklla: spend around 4 days for huge improvement, commited, got 100% winrate as before, nothing changed :(

eulerscheZahl: "whatever is said in Latin will be seen as deep"

jacek: miklla did you read papers on d&b?

miklla: yes

Astrobytes: Is MSmits actually missing question time with miklla?

jacek: lets call him. "2 3 is good opening move"

Astrobytes: "meta mcts"

Astrobytes: "bitboarrrrdsssss"

reCurse: booking as p1 in uttt is viable

jacek: eris pads her chest

Astrobytes: He must truly be afk.

jacek: reCurse but it is. as p2 it isnt

reCurse: I see, you're trolling to wake him up as well

jacek: are you gonna release chess soonish?

reCurse: Need to write a boss for it

reCurse: And I'm distracted with bt

eulerscheZahl: you have random() already

jacek: another player for bt :scream:

reCurse: I've started training, quite a bit more resource intensive than uttt

reCurse: Need that new cpu and gpu

jacek: me too :(

reCurse: Either that or I make it cloud compatible

jacek: i wanted to replace my PC before the new ryzen, but no, "there will be new ryzen, price will drop and ill buy it then"

reCurse: It's a good thing you waited, zen3 finally fixed bmi

reCurse: 1000x speed increase or something

jacek: but now i still have no bmi

reCurse: On par with intel now

reCurse: Ah

jacek: but right now im gonna try those python tools for learning

jacek: i have data and i train using my half-assed made code

reCurse: Puck Fython

jacek: but i need a way to efficiently compute sparse input for those :c

reCurse: There seems to be a distinct advantage for p1 in bt so far

reCurse: It's a shame, there's no pairing

jacek: 5x5 and 6x5 is win for p2

reCurse: I don't care much for fun sizes though

reCurse: 10x increase in disk size to store training games compared to uttt lol

jacek: is your bot alphazero style?

reCurse: Kind of

jacek: im too dumb for training policy

Astrobytes: You always underestimate yourself jacek

jacek: dunning kruger eh?

eulerscheZahl: isn't that the opposite?

reCurse: It's both

eulerscheZahl: oh

MSmits: I'm here!

MSmits: miklla are you counting chains?

reCurse: Ping to Netherlands is crazy

Astrobytes: lol

MSmits: or doing some form of nimstring analysis

miklla: MSmits no

miklla: actually my around 39 first moves have no meaning

MSmits: i notice you have a particular way of placing lines early game

MSmits: ah yes

MSmits: i noticed from your output that you're a few turns ahead o fme

MSmits: sometimes it says loss

MSmits: and then turns to win

miklla: just not implemented euristics, make non dumb move with lowest index

MSmits: so something happened for your bot to think i won

MSmits: ah ok

MSmits: yeah i see the lines build up from the bottom up

MSmits: lowest index checks out

eulerscheZahl: so you were over-interpreting bot messages?

MSmits: no, the loss thing i sreal

MSmits: this happened around ply 45 or so

reCurse: I still need to get around with trolling my bot messages

miklla: these message come after ~39th move

MSmits: and then my bot only started solving after 50

miklla: only after*

miklla: so they have meaning

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: when your bot says "loss"

MSmits: is this a certainty?

MSmits: on perfect play?

miklla: yes

MSmits: interesting

MSmits: quite early

miklla: initially in loss position my bot was making random or lowest index move

miklla: but now it makes kinda best losing move

MSmits: always better to do that

MSmits: so is this like a negamax?

miklla: usually it can be countered by 1-3 of 30 available moves

miklla: and it gave me nice winrate boost :)

MSmits: or more like a statistical search with a solver

MSmits: (like mcts solver)

MSmits: i've been thinking of doing something with that, and improving my solving capabilities.

MSmits: currently i just do nimstring analysis until solved game, which basically means I start doing wel from 50-55, 38 is obviously much better

miklla: right now I have just endgame solver, nothing random or impartial

MSmits: does the endgame solver do score, or just win/loss?

miklla: just endgame starts around 39-43rd move for me :)

miklla: win/loss

miklla: in different game

MSmits: ah, that could make things faster for me, if i didnt bother to do score

jacek: i dont bother either :v

MSmits: it just looks cool to output the predicted score :)

miklla: remi sometimes win ,e because I win in other game, but lose in real game

MSmits: which other game?

miklla: well known game in D&B literature

MSmits: strings and coins? Thats basically the same game, but represented differently

MSmits: or do you mean something else?

miklla: nimstring if you want precise name

MSmits: ohh i got it

MSmits: yes sometimes you can win the nimstring and still lose on score

MSmits: so your bot only searches nimstring?

MSmits: so your endgame solver is a nimstring solver

MSmits: meaning you do nimstring analysis

miklla: y

MSmits: good yes, this is how i beat remi, i started doing nimstring analysis

MSmits: but not good enough apparently :)

MSmits: it's on my list to improve this. But I will work on other things first. Thanks for sharing miklla, much appreciated

miklla: ye, kinda boring with 100% winrate, have 7 ideas to improve my bot, waiting for losses :)

MSmits: do what i did, make a score solver. Once your bot solves the nim-game, you got calculation time left over

MSmits: then you can output score :)

MSmits: will matter almost never, except sometimes vs remi

miklla: remi is cool when he produces 2 cycles

MSmits: yes thats how you beat someone who won the nimgame, as many loops as possible

MSmits: but remi also gives away a lot of boxes, so he's usually already behind in score

MSmits: i wonder if anyone else understands this :P

eulerscheZahl: i gave up long ago when you are chatting

MSmits: :grin:

eulerscheZahl: so i just share this post that i found while searching for the dx dy tshirt:

MSmits: this is when the police finally got to you euler?

eulerscheZahl: that's not how i looked

Default avatar.png dkim19375: :grinning:]

MSmits: oh ok :P

eulerscheZahl: i think i shared a pi of myself a while ago, didn't i?

MSmits: you may have

eulerscheZahl: but you didn't see or already forgot again

MSmits: i know this was not you, but I dont remember what someone looks like from seeing 1 pic 1 time

eulerscheZahl: me neither

eulerscheZahl: i'm terrible with faces :(

MSmits: i have 100+ new student faces to remember also, I think the information gets drowned out

eulerscheZahl: one reason why i prefer a series over movies

MSmits: I'm reasonably good with faces, but not with the names attached to them

MSmits: so i will recognize a student years later and then not know their name

Default avatar.png andrecab: Hi there! in the codingame C++ ide I have two classes that need to know about each other. My problem is that the class declared at the top will not know about the one in the bottom

eulerscheZahl: once I was like "why is this guy coming towards me" (just thinking, not saying). friend: hey, there's your dad. oops :D

MSmits: oh, thats a different thing though, that's attention

Default avatar.png andrecab: normally I would use .h files but how can I solve this in CG?

jacek: andrecab isnt that true for any c++ ide?

MSmits: I've nearly walked by my wife and daughter several times on the street, just thinking and not registering their faces

miklla: you can forward declare classes and use pointers

reCurse: andrecab There is nothing special about #include files, they are literally pasted in the source file by the preprocessor.

reCurse: So whatever they did you can do the same manually.

MSmits: do conflicts happen often with includes?

Default avatar.png JBM: a bit of magic for __FILE__ and __LINE__ hough ;)

MSmits: i had it happen a few times with string

reCurse: Define conflict

MSmits: same name for things in different include files

jacek: #ifndef

MSmits: then gets pasted in

reCurse: Only happens if you did it wrong

MSmits: no doubt

Default avatar.png JBM: it's not really #include-specific either too

Default avatar.png JBM: you'll get naming conflicts across translation units too

MSmits: right yeah, it's more general I guess

Default avatar.png andrecab: Ok, thanks for the help!

MSmits: I had it happen with C# as well. I was using unity and tried using some basic C# libraries, apparently unity also had definitions for the same things and it caused conflict

reCurse: And that's how namespaces were born

reCurse: Or packages for java heretics

MSmits: right

Default avatar.png JBM: or mangling

Default avatar.png AnalPainGiver: Why my xp's are not increasing ? despite solving problem?

eulerscheZahl: is the problem a clash?

jacek: i feel butthurt just reading your name

eulerscheZahl: let's engage the community :)

reCurse: The name gave it away

eulerscheZahl: that's the 95% we want

Default avatar.png JBM: i'm in bed and eZ's still active

Default avatar.png JBM: something's messed up

struct: The icing on the cake will be the new feature

MSmits: AnalPainGiver, I think you had trouble translating from Indian to English

MSmits: it's called a hemorrhoid

Default avatar.png JBM: like you typed that correct on the first try

Default avatar.png AnalPainGiver: ?

eulerscheZahl: you mean the twitter post feature struct?

struct: yes euler

MSmits: i google it JBM

reCurse: He has experience

Default avatar.png AnalPainGiver: Dude, MSmits

Default avatar.png JBM: wait is that a real thing

Default avatar.png AnalPainGiver: what are you talking about ?

MSmits: it's your name

Default avatar.png JBM: what ELSE did I miss from that infamous chat

Default avatar.png AnalPainGiver: I just asked a generic question.

MSmits: no no

eulerscheZahl: and some new tile at the top announced in a few days or up to 2 weeks. wonder if those are about the same thing

MSmits: i was responding to your name

Default avatar.png AnalPainGiver: Oh ok, I love doing anal to girl, that's normal!

Default avatar.png AnalPainGiver: If you don't, that' s on you.

Default avatar.png JBM: as long as she loves it too

Default avatar.png AnalPainGiver: True, JBM

MSmits: uh oh, I'm out

jacek: oO

eulerscheZahl: the 95% of the community that we want :)

MSmits: lol

Default avatar.png AnalPainGiver: Lol, you better, or something else will come out hahahha

eulerscheZahl: i better go to bed before the urge to kick gets too strong. bye

MSmits: gn eulerscheZahl

Default avatar.png AnalPainGiver: Ok,back to my ques, why my xp's are not increasing from solving clash problems

reCurse: Ah to be 12 again and find those things funny

Astrobytes: Oh, I go afk for a minute and get this to come back to

Default avatar.png JBM: as eZ intended to say

Default avatar.png JBM: there'x no xp for clash

Default avatar.png AnalPainGiver: ok, then how to increase level?

Default avatar.png JBM: with stuff that yields xp

Default avatar.png AnalPainGiver: and increase ranking?

Default avatar.png JBM: mostly puzzles

Default avatar.png AnalPainGiver: ok

Default avatar.png AnalPainGiver: And that I can find under which sectino?

Default avatar.png AnalPainGiver: section*

Default avatar.png JBM: but also arbitrary stuff (see xpachievement page in your profile)

MSmits: Astrobytes this is not a typical troll, he just doesnt know the boundaries of civil communication

Astrobytes: I know him already MSmits

MSmits: ah ok

Default avatar.png AnalPainGiver: Astro, oh, so you wanted to kick me out because of my explicit explanation of my username, huh

Astrobytes: No?

Default avatar.png JBM: ranking, on the other hand, is yet something completely6Wmostly orthogonal

Astrobytes: I'll kick you out if you want but I don't care about your username right now.

MSmits: no, it could be a hemorroid, your name was fine until it turned out it was that other thing

Default avatar.png AnalPainGiver: Astro, if Codingame's policy allow me to make my favorite user_id, that I mostly use every I play game. Then, It should be under filteration while making civil communication.

Astrobytes: MSmits: haemorrhoid! Dammit

MSmits: this time i didnt paste it off google

MSmits: google now thinks i have issues btw

Default avatar.png AnalPainGiver: oh, you were referring to MSmits comment. Yeah, it's gross.. lol

Astrobytes: Hema/Haema is US/British

MSmits: ah

MSmits: yeah Brits always want their words longer

Default avatar.png JBM: i thought americans wanted their words more pedantic

Default avatar.png AnalPainGiver: It makes them sound like a

Astrobytes: Hematoma/Haematoma, hematemesis/haematemesis etc

Default avatar.png AnalPainGiver: I was having conversation with my teammate, she calls "Addi" for "Address".

Default avatar.png zhoubou: Astrobytes I want to thank you and everyone else for pushing me through. I scored more than 40k on Code vs Zombies :D

Default avatar.png zhoubou: My solution is simple and linear. I rewrote my entire code and found a lot of bugs in my sim.

Astrobytes: Ahhh well done zhoubou!

Default avatar.png zhoubou: Thank you :)

Astrobytes: What's next on your list?

Default avatar.png zhoubou: Ughh. Haven't thought this through yet. Am thinking as we speak.

jacek: :soccer:

Default avatar.png zhoubou: I thought CvZ will take me much more time

darkhorse64: reach 100<%

darkhorse64: 100%

Default avatar.png zhoubou: Hmm. It might be too difficult for me

Default avatar.png zhoubou: At this point at least

Default avatar.png zhoubou: Unless someone has some easy hints :)

Astrobytes: Oh you didn't get 100%? Your work is not finished :D

Default avatar.png zhoubou: I don't even know how to start attaining that

Default avatar.png zhoubou: Unless I implement some rules, other than random movements. Or there might be an optimization I'm not seeing.

Astrobytes: darkhorse64: a bit off the current topic but do you know if leRenard wrote the Thor/GThor Othello program?

darkhorse64: You would not believe it. My search is random (OK it's a genetic algo). Astrobytes: I don't know. Do you know his name IRL ?

Astrobytes: Sylvain

jacek: Q.?

Astrobytes: Author of Thor is Sylvain Quin

Astrobytes: It was after old john mentioned it and that he worked with him back in the day, I came across the references to the old othello programs and

Astrobytes: *and wondered

jacek: and yet they are beaten by the booker

Astrobytes: leRenards first submit went to top and was almost a straight copy of his old othello program from 30 years ago so...

struct: Also "he" wrote the book format from what I understand

struct: and not a book


Astrobytes: oui c'est correct

Astrobytes: I mean yes, correct

pb4: "leRenards first submit went to top and was almost a straight copy of his old othello program from 30 years ago so..."

pb4: How do you know that ?

struct: He said so pb4

Astrobytes: He told us at the time.

Astrobytes: As soon as it went live he submitted.

Astrobytes: And told us when we were amazed.

pb4: code 30 years old ?!

pb4: Damn

MSmits: it was cool

reCurse: Had to write things pretty well back then

reCurse: Shouldn't be a surprise

Astrobytes: old john and le renard both worked together, with Michael Buro and others no less

MSmits: It wasnt even that easy to beat renards bot. took a while

reCurse: Who is

Astrobytes: ?

pb4: Who is Michael Buro ?

jacek: logistello programmer

MSmits: are we doing jeopardy?


darkhorse64: and many seminal papers on Othello

Astrobytes: Yep.

MSmits: heh that pic looks exactly the same as our othello... of course it should, but it's still strange to see

jacek: btw. not long ago they discovered those 'patterns' in draught community

pb4: I see the "GLEM" paragraph on that wiki page

Astrobytes: tric trac also has worked on... is it checkers/draughts? for decades

reCurse: All these famous people in hiding

jacek: which is exactly what othello did then

Astrobytes: Hence his minimax mastery

MSmits: ahhh, well that explains why tric trac

MSmits: ... right

jacek: and yet no backgammon game

pb4: has anybody here applied something similar to that "GLEM" thing ?

Astrobytes: the tric trac game isn't straight-up backgammon afaik

pb4: More specifically this part : "but further provides a procedure for exploring the feature space able to discover new evaluation features in a computational feasible way."

reCurse: Ok Google, what is GLEM

jacek: pb4 thats n-tuple

jacek: more or less

pb4: I'll have to spend a bit more time reading about those n-tuples

Astrobytes: read up on MPC too

pb4: Ok Google, what is MPC :D

MSmits: to me it seems a lot like a NN, except you're giving it less freedom about the features it analyses

struct: multi probcut

Astrobytes: Sorry pb4, multi-probcut

MSmits: multiprob cut is like cutting of branches based on probability

MSmits: to search deeper in ab search

MSmits: if i understand it correctly

Astrobytes: You do the probablities offline

MSmits: yeah the constants

MSmits: and there are many

Astrobytes: *probabilities

Astrobytes: Yep

MSmits: old john pushing me in D&B

reCurse: multi-pb4cut

Astrobytes: :)

Astrobytes: he's online MSmits?

MSmits: not currently, but i see him a lot in my last battles, since 2 hrs ago

Astrobytes: ah ok

MSmits: after i submitted

MSmits: i think he won a lot vs me, because my bot was 100% deterministic before

MSmits: it's got time based random seed now

Astrobytes: Aha. Throwing him off the scent.

reCurse: Gross

MSmits: yeah i had a fixed seed before which won 80% vs remi, the time based seed wins only 65%

MSmits: remi is very deterministic also... so we were mostly playing the same games with both using fixed seeds

reCurse: This is why friends don't let friends make deterministic games

MSmits: right :)

Astrobytes: heh

MSmits: this is a very underestimated problem I think and one of the causes of RPS effects on leaderboards

reCurse: Underestimated? I keep whining about it for years

MSmits: yes, but you are an outlier

MSmits: :P

reCurse: Story of my life :'(

MSmits: i noticed it mostly because of my book experimentation

MSmits: you keep checking games to see what your bot does wrong and suddenly you recognize the same game over and over

MSmits: games having inherent randomness (in the referee) solves this too

reCurse: Random initial state is best

Astrobytes: I think reCurse is more getting at starting positions etc rather than straight up random-ass games

struct: I was gonna finish Amazons, but its also bookable to some extent

MSmits: i agree reCurse, it is better for bot games. But people like those fixed opening state boardgames, because they are familiar and well studied

Astrobytes: Not completely iirc. And it's worth it I think.

reCurse: That doesn't prevent it from being randomized with openings

Astrobytes: @Struct

reCurse: Look at TCEC, random forced openings

reCurse: Otherwise you'd get the same game every time

MSmits: TCEC?

reCurse: Computer chess championship

MSmits: ah ok

reCurse: And it's applicable to any game with a fixed initial state

MSmits: well players can do the randomness themselves

MSmits: if the openings have equal value

reCurse: Do pairings, force random moves, there you go

reCurse: Extra points if you force good random moves

reCurse: It's trivial

reCurse: Besides if you want to compare the human elemen

MSmits: yeah i understand the organization can force this, but the players can force it too

reCurse: If you lose doing an opening you won't do it over and over again

MSmits: by putting a random component into their bot

reCurse: Unless your name is Puppey or something

MSmits: dont understand the puppey reference :0

reCurse: Throwaway joke

reCurse: Don't bother explain it

MSmits: kk

Astrobytes: dota?

reCurse: Yes

MSmits: I played dota2

Astrobytes: Had to google but don't get the joke, haven't followed it much.

MSmits: I think 200 games total or so

reCurse: You know what they say about explaining jokes

Astrobytes: Yep.

MSmits: it's the best way to learn humor!

Astrobytes: Not always.

MSmits: that was a joke

MSmits: want me to explain?

Astrobytes: 'in-jokes' make much less sense.

MSmits: in jokes?

MSmits: inside joke?

Astrobytes: fml

Astrobytes: yes

MSmits: ah ok

MSmits: yeah those are not explainable

MSmits: until you explain the entire context

MSmits: by that point the person is inside

Astrobytes: getting back to not learning from losing opening moves

Astrobytes: ...

MSmits: what i've noticed about the deterministic games we have is not just that they are bookable

MSmits: even if the best bots use a random component

MSmits: the tree of "good moves' is just very small

Astrobytes: narrow lines of play, yeah you've mentioned that a lot

MSmits: yeah it's what i've noticed

MSmits: so random openings helps if a game has many options

MSmits: like chess

MSmits: othello doesnt have that many

MSmits: unless you force like.. the first 5 plies or so

MSmits: maybe more

Astrobytes: Not sure if anyone has experimented with that

MSmits: nah i think the game is just too simple to be interesting for those contests

MSmits: it used to be more interesting when the field was young i suppose

MSmits: and computers were slower

MSmits: about amazons, doesnt this game have huge branching?

struct: yes

MSmits: that makes it unbookable by definition, like dots and boxes

MSmits: it would only be bookable if someone had a perfectly deterministic bot and someone else bothered to make use of that

struct: "Also, the huge branching factor, over 1000 available legal moves during most of the opening, makes selecting good moves difficult. Still, one or two bad moves in the opening can doom a player to passive play and an almost certain loss"

MSmits: thats a waste of time i think

MSmits: might be worth making a multi of

Astrobytes: It was my suggestion a long time ago

MSmits: good one

MSmits: yeah i remember you saying it multiple times even

MSmits: thats when i learned about it

Astrobytes: You remembered something someone said? You been on the nootropics? :D

MSmits: hey i try :P

Astrobytes: hehehe

reCurse: Cute old couple aww

MSmits: hey, dont you need to go for a walk by now

Astrobytes: arrr shut it grandad

reCurse: Already did

Astrobytes: lol

MSmits: aw ok

Default avatar.png ISAAColl: hay papi

MSmits: allright i need to go grade these christmas cards now. Want to get at least that much done before sleep

Astrobytes: Ah the python turtle ones. Enjoy :)

MSmits: yes, thanks and gn

Astrobytes: gn MSmits

Default avatar.png zhoubou: I'm reading up on genetic algorithms. I'm wondering what the genes might hold. I'm just doing random movements, so I can only select between random movements. How can I represent that in a gene?

jacek: MSmits there are othello 'xots'

jacek: starting balanced openings with 8 plies


k4ng0u: zhoubou you can take an angle and a distance for instance but it highly depends on what you try to solve

Astrobytes: CvZ k4ng0u

Astrobytes: So just x and y in this case

Astrobytes: @zhoubou

darkhorse64: or radius and angle

Astrobytes: jacek: interesting, I hadn't seen that

Astrobytes: darkhorse64: oh indeed

Default avatar.png zhoubou: Hmm. So a gene would be (x, y)? Astrobytes

Astrobytes: zhoubou: see darkhorse's reply

Default avatar.png zhoubou: Or (r, theta), yeah

Default avatar.png zhoubou: But that gene is only good for a single turn.

Astrobytes: Well you evolve your population over several turns

Astrobytes: You keep good genes in a pool, mutate them, and cross over the best ones. Rinse and repeat.

Default avatar.png zhoubou: I know the gist of it, yeah.

jacek: you do it online?

Default avatar.png zhoubou: What I'm not understanding is the representation of the gene/chromosome for this specific problem

Default avatar.png zhoubou: jacek How can I do it offline? Unless I cheat.

Astrobytes: Just because the validators are known doesn't technically make it cheating

Astrobytes: kovi may disagree

jacek: mhm

darkhorse64: It can be done online. My score is online

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: darkhorse64 wait how do you train online?

darkhorse64: ofc my code is C++ for maximum speed

darkhorse64: I search online

Astrobytes: Simulate multiple turns ahead and score your solutions, choose the best one

darkhorse64: I simulate till the end

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: Oh so you find suffiently good "genes" in that short time? impressive

Astrobytes: zhoubou: your chromosome/solution is just an n sized array of moves and a score

darkhorse64: Yes but the key is to keep on refining after the first turn, 1s is lot of time but 50 ms matter also

struct: My non hardcoded version was just MC

struct: managed around 650k

darkhorse64: The sim is not complicated so you can run a lot of them

Default avatar.png zhoubou: Well then I need to optimize it o.o darkhorse64

Default avatar.png zhoubou: I see Astrobytes

Astrobytes: So you can mutate solutions/chromosomes and crossover

struct: My performance was not great there

struct: I have like 50k games simulated on the worst test case

struct: Hoard

Default avatar.png zhoubou: Online?

struct: yes

Default avatar.png zhoubou: Wow..

struct: I mean

struct: 1 turn = 50k games

Default avatar.png zhoubou: For me, it times out after 50 or so games on some test cases

Default avatar.png zhoubou: Lol

struct: language?

Default avatar.png zhoubou: Python

Default avatar.png zhoubou: Around 500 for Cross (10th) test case

Default avatar.png zhoubou: Actually around 100 for Hoard

struct: ok my number 40k was wrong

struct: is less

Default avatar.png zhoubou: But it's much more than 100 I presume

struct: its around 25k on turn 2

Default avatar.png zhoubou: Yeah..

Default avatar.png zhoubou: So I have a big problem

struct: Well im using c+p+

Default avatar.png zhoubou: Yeah, I don't want to switch. Not yet...

darkhorse64: Searching with Python is ... ambitious. I go 1.2 M simulations steps for test case 10 first turns

reCurse: "A game may last theoretically up to 209 moves but, in practice, a game is generally decided before 100 moves are played."

darkhorse64: turn

reCurse: What is a move, 1 or 2 players

darkhorse64: A ply, a move by one player

jacek: as it should be

jacek: why chess folks cant understand this

reCurse: My current average is 150, don't know if it's a good or a bad sign

darkhorse64: Slowly building up your advantage ?

reCurse: Or having no clue how to play

RoboStac: this for bt?

reCurse: Yes

jacek: msot games are less than 100 plies

reCurse: Yes that's what is written

jacek: from experience

RoboStac: when I start training the games get longer, then start to come down and are mostly below 100

darkhorse64: You should lose very fast then. This is the issue with bt. Search happens on all the board but only far advanced pawns really matters. The winning combination get lost in the fog

jacek: huh? when i start training my games are very short. one wrong moves and bah!

reCurse: Problem is I have zero clue what is good play

jacek: good play is when you winning :V

reCurse: I did get that longer then shorter part

reCurse: But 150 still seems like a lot

darkhorse64: Search for Dan Troyka papers on the strategic aspects of bt. There are good tips for humans

reCurse: Oh cool, thanks for the tip

reCurse: Then again it's early on the training

jacek: yeah, searching by 'breakthrough' sucks

reCurse: ETA is currently around 12 hours to get decent number of iterations

reCurse: sigh

struct: How many games do you play on that time?

reCurse: I'm at around 25k games for 30 minutes right now

darkhorse64: You guys are making me feel like a caveman with my mcts

jacek: mcts is so last decade

reCurse: Would be 5 times faster if hardware was accessible

darkhorse64: I am so last decade

struct: Only way to get parts is to buy prebuilts it seems

reCurse: I don't want to overspend over msrp either

reCurse: Against my religion

struct: Yeah, they ask for 50% more

struct: its way too much

reCurse: Anyone has experience setuping up cloud instances? :P

Illedan: What are you talking about?

Illedan: *game

reCurse: bt

Illedan: bt?

reCurse: bt

RoboStac: 25k per 30 mins should let you train something fairly quickly (it's quite a bit higher than I get and my current BT bot was less than a days training)

Astrobytes: Breakthrough

darkhorse64: Breakthrough

darkhorse64: damn ankles

Astrobytes: hahahaha

reCurse: Yeah that's hoping my hyperparameters are right

reCurse: If not then I have to start over

RoboStac: though obviously theres a lot more too it than just games

RoboStac: yeah

reCurse: I dunno maybe uttt spoiled me

jacek: mods everywhere, i feel so insignificant

Wontonimo: you can test or search hyperparameters

reCurse: Sure, still need the compute to go at it fast

Wontonimo: +1

reCurse: I'm quite impatient when it comes to training

reCurse: Need to write a dashboard with cute widgets to pace myself

reCurse: Live game would be nice

Astrobytes: You've not done that yet?

Astrobytes: I thought you would've baked that into your framework tbh

reCurse: No, framework requires gpu to run

reCurse: Wasting precious resources for training

reCurse: Even having CG open is a compromise

Astrobytes: gotcha

reCurse: Though I'm not sure how much is shared between cuda and 3d rendering

ChuFta: guys please join

reCurse: But having a viewer open I notice an immediate dip in perf metrics

reCurse: Yay pixi

ChuFta: is there a way to start "shortest mode" clash of code which is publice??

jacek: no

Astrobytes: Sure. It's called Code Golf in the Compete section. No time limit but it is public.

Astrobytes: But don't compete, just try to have fun instead.

Astrobytes: :salt:

Astrobytes: reCurse: your normal 'battlestation' is built on openGL or dx or?

reCurse: opengl

reCurse: Problem is it's realtime instead of smart updates like an oldschool gui

reCurse: So it's running like a game, 120fps

Astrobytes: Yeah it's gonna hit the gpu

reCurse: Doesn't matter at all until I need 100% of my gpu

struct: Cant you limit fps? or it doesnt matter

Astrobytes: which is gonna be quite frequent now by the sounds of things

reCurse: Sure but it's still going to hit the gpu

Astrobytes: c# gui and text display for you then

reCurse: I think I'd rather do web at this point *shudder*

Astrobytes: :D

reCurse: I am so burned out with c# gui

reCurse: A real shit show

Astrobytes: Time for VB

Astrobytes: But seriously, it's not nice.

reCurse: Still not sure why UI is such a mess

reCurse: Ok just kidding, I know why. Just wondering with all the strides made in other areas.

Astrobytes: Guess they just gave in to web-based/pthon/java

reCurse: 3d rendering in 20 years is a herculean effort

Astrobytes: *python

reCurse: UI in 20 years?

Astrobytes: mmm

reCurse: Maybe effort is not the right word

reCurse: Progress

reCurse: There

reCurse: 20 years later and many times I'd rather have a html page

Astrobytes: Of course there's not just the whole experience of actually having to develop UI, but the fact the the UX/HCI field can't really keep up

Astrobytes: Some of the traditional 'rules' still apply but with ever changing mobile device incarnations it becomes a real mess.

Astrobytes: imo

Illedan: Agreed on C# UI mess.. MVVM -.-

Astrobytes: I'm not really sure a lot of people coding any kind of UI really understood anything from HCI

reCurse: The pre-web era windows folks were godlike tbh

reCurse: Underappreciated how much they understood HCI

Astrobytes: Yes, you're not wrong. There's a reason for the market dominance there.

Astrobytes: "I'm not really sure a lot of people coding any kind of UI" + nowadays btw

reCurse: I wouldn't mind MVVM so much if it wasn't for that goddamn abomination called WPF

reCurse: You can put a spinning cube in a dropdown but good luck if you want to have a tab that works as expected.

reCurse: Or something, forgot my examples, I exiled that land years ago

Illedan: Haha, I just left that land

Illedan: Now I'm in React

Illedan: seems far better

Astrobytes: But... but... WPF is so.. easy to use and quick to develop with :P

Illedan: Bloated

Astrobytes: No shit.

reCurse: Obscure, overengineered

reCurse: Unmaintained

Illedan: Might work in Xamarin if the Functional approach gets good

reCurse: Just stay clear from Microsoft UI frameworks

reCurse: inb4 just stay away from microsoft lul

Illedan: I started using Avalonia for my personal projects

Astrobytes: What! MFC + ATL FTW!!!!

reCurse: Avalonia looked like abandonware

Illedan: Indeed, but it works on my windows and my mac :shrug:

Astrobytes: Hm, hadn't seen avalonia

reCurse: I'd just like a minimalist ui toolkit for web

reCurse: But form trumps function these days

Illedan: C# webapp?

reCurse: I have my doubts this is going to go well

Astrobytes: the webasm thing?

reCurse: Different things

Illedan: Blazor

Astrobytes: yeah I know Illedan, was just wondering which part of it reCurse was doubtful about

reCurse: Very limited widgets it looks like

reCurse: Sorry didn't know blazor

Astrobytes: It's been a hot topic for some time, you really didn't hear of it?

reCurse: I don't follow the web scene that much

Astrobytes: Neither do I but some things you pick up through osmosis.

reCurse: shrug

Default avatar.png samples32: What is the easiest practice game?

struct: Tron might be one of the easier ones

Default avatar.png samples32: Thanks

Default avatar.png samples32: How am i expos to tell if im about to run into my light beam. P.S. Sorry for the misspelling

Astrobytes: You have to keep a record of the cells you have visited

Default avatar.png samples32: Thank you Astrobytes.

Jasperr: Is there a way to go from a clash results page to the clash contribution?

Default avatar.png samples32: I think you have to go to the contribute page.

Jasperr: that shows all contributions

Jasperr: seems like what I need is not available

struct: Search it here


Jasperr: if only I would remember the name of the clash

Astrobytes: if you remember keywords you can use them

Astrobytes: anything from the description

Jasperr: oooh thats very useful

Jasperr: thanks struct

Default avatar.png samples32: in the top left corner their is a dropdown just for that.

struct: Today I got this clash


struct: Dont know how it was approved, the statement makes no sense

Jasperr: I just had this one


Jasperr: so much broken english I had to find it to fix it

Astrobytes: wtf struct

struct: I understood that one

struct: astro yeah, either someone edited statement

struct: or I dont know

struct: "With only numbers 1, get the highest score using only the operations +, *"

struct: 1+1 = 2

struct: answer for 1 should be 1

Astrobytes: Yeah it's not clear at all

struct: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Jasperr: lol

Astrobytes: since you have only 1 1

reCurse: Quality

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: struct it's kinda wtf but I think what they mean is you have N ones and you can + and * until only one number is left

struct: ah I understand now

struct: Makes sense now

Astrobytes: Yes but how does "With only numbers 1, get the highest score using only the operations +, *"

Astrobytes: actually tell you that?

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: Thats what I havemy crystal abll for :p

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: ball*

Astrobytes: heh

struct: 90% of the clash is to understand the statement

struct: 95%

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: ^ TRUE

Astrobytes: Hey, no one cares about the 5%...

Chorizo: hi i wan't to what do i have to put in the box solution when i create a new contribution

Chorizo: the code ?

struct: yeah

Astrobytes: The code to solve it yes

Chorizo: ok thx


Default avatar.png JudgeAL:

Westicles: JudgeAL, that is just terrible

Default avatar.png JudgeAL: whhaaa

Jasperr: calm down satan lol

struct: Impossible to solve

Default avatar.png bobth: my coc room getting this

Default avatar.png bobth: An error occurred (#73): "Only 1 executor running at the same time for a test session".

Default avatar.png bobth: slow for other people too

struct: Servers get slow around this time

struct: to update db or something

Default avatar.png bobth: oof

Default avatar.png MartinEduardo: Hi

Default avatar.png MartinEduardo: anyone has solved the ascii art puzzle? maybe that person could tell me if it is hard or not that hard at all

struct: Might be one of the hardest out of the easy ones

MR3M3AT: Hellooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

MR3M3AT: Whats the best coding language?

Default avatar.png RyanGilbert: uh

Default avatar.png RyanGilbert: bad question

Default avatar.png badAtCoding: what r u trying to do?

NguyenDuyPhu: I have completed all test cases of puzzle "Find happy number" but when I complete it it is only 80%. Where should I find the remaining test cases? : ((

ZarthaxX: you can't see them, unless you are level 20+

NguyenDuyPhu: thank you

ZarthaxX: yw :)

Olusola: Clash Of Code again