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datdood: why are there bots on this site?

MadKnight: Automaton2000 why? explain us

Automaton2000: if i did it before

MadKnight: they were before there were bots datdood so it's ok

MadKnight: Automaton2000 says that

Automaton2000: i had a lot of languages

Emmaplayz: bla bla bla

datdood: ?

datdood: that made no sense

datdood: why are there bots?

typingm: Hey all. Coming back after being away for a while. In CoC, if I play with JavaScript and use the "print" function, the syntax highlighting crosses out the word "print," which I haven't seen before. Any idea what might be going on there? I thought print was added as a convenience for CoC code golfing so JavaScripters don't have to write out console.log?

typingm: I should add, print still works, it's just crossed out.

VizGhar: typingm you see something like this? If you don't get response here in chat, try to report it using forum. It's pretty active there too

typingm: Interesting, thanks. I'll take a look.

Default avatar.png StrideNYC: This AI bot thing is so dope!

Default avatar.png StrideNYC: I'm on the first one. Just unlocked boost :o

Uljahn: ye, very addictive :)

slvt_c0d3r: LF> coding gf

Default avatar.png StrideNYC: what lol

slvt_c0d3r: dont worry about it kid

S3w3r_R4t: wut? i heard my name :3

Default avatar.png StrideNYC: You got it, old man ;)

jacek: good morning

Mirou26: HELLO

AntiSquid: morning

VizGhar: Is there any bot game with more then 4 players? I'm really considering it as possibility right now

eulerscheZahl: 4 is the max for existing games. CG allows up to 8

VizGhar: Original of my game states 2-8 players, and I can fit them all on screen. I'll try it

eulerscheZahl: you risk some randomness in ranking that way. personally I prefer 2 player games

eulerscheZahl: but sure, go ahead

VizGhar: Can't break it while WIP :)

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: Hey guys I have a question: I want to try to use the genetic algorithm in Ghost in the Cell. To train it, should I create an abstract clone of the game locally and train there or is there an other way to do that?

struct: AI_says_hi have you checked post mortems?

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: struct yes the GitC one but he didn't use GA

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: struct are there some that describe it?

struct: some players used


Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: okay imma go read thanks

Default avatar.png AI_says_hi: :slight_smile::thumbsup:

lopidav: >You reached the limit of plays for a period of time

lopidav: what is this

jacek: addict detector

lopidav: but I was there for like 10 minutes

VizGhar: :D jacek you are my superhero

BOBKA: An error occurred (#314): "Submitted code is too big". WTF? What is the limit?

jacek: lopidav and how many times you submitted

jacek: BOBKA 100k characters

lopidav: submitted once. Trying to test maybe once every 10s at my fastest

lopidav: it's working now

jacek: :thumbsup:

struct: :pensive:

struct: Finally found the bug :cry:

jacek: you fixed it and its worse?

struct: No, just fixed it

struct: dont know how

struct: Thats a problem

mzbear: maybe you didn't fix it. maybe you just rearranged things so that it doesn't bite you right now ;)

struct: Im pretty sure its fixed

struct: before it wouldnt work 2/10 times

struct: now its working 10/10 times, I know its a low sample

struct: but seems to be fine

mzbear: VizGhar: tsuro with 8 players would mean 4 moves per player until the board is full. that's a bit low

mzbear: hmm. actually, it might not be too low. i dont know. i'd have to think about the game a bit more

starmaq: hmm why are all the test cases in 208

starmaq: wait

starmaq: nvm

Avenslova: Hey guys

struct: hello

mzbear: i have a feeling that in the 8 player tsuro the nature of the game turns into trying to guess which player is holding which piece

mzbear: i have no idea how to make a bot for that

struct: I guess it was worth Reused up to depth: 4 states: 39039 time: 1

darkhorse64: It all depends if we know what each player has in hands, With many players, it will be hard to find a move that allows to survive until next turn

eulerscheZahl: JBM: "I personally don’t look at the WIP anymore, precisely because they’re too much of everything anyway" also JBM: keeps troll vs castle as WIP for over a decade

jacek: he hasnt decided of final mechanics of the game yet

jacek: maybe 3 players version would be better

eulerscheZahl: he's hoping for more valuable feedback from the community

Default avatar.png Noobness: can I have a question? how popular are the "bot programming" games with significant random factor (e.g. card games)?

eulerscheZahl: unpopular

Default avatar.png Noobness: thought so, thanks

jacek: huh?

jacek: just there arent many

eulerscheZahl: locam got some hate for the draft and random order in which you get to play the cards

eulerscheZahl: random map generation, then full info of the game state (or fog in a reasonable way) that's the popular kind of game here

jacek: yeah, no one likes random games like onitama

eulerscheZahl: it's a perfect information game

eulerscheZahl: no hidden cards that you can reveal during the game

struct: missing fog

jacek: r

Default avatar.png Noobness: got it, thanks.. I was thinking about creating really cool card game, but.. it's a card game, so I'll think some more :)

lopidav: I was thinking about putting my tabletop game ideas here so I can balance out degenerate strategies. Will I still be able to sell the game if I do that or the license would forbid that?

struct: sell the game where=

struct: You want to use CG to balance game / strategies?

eulerscheZahl: by uploading you agree to CC2 license

lopidav: struct, yea, create it as a puzzle/game and let people make solutions/bots.

eulerscheZahl: we should warn you that community games get relatively little attention

eulerscheZahl: e.g. vindinium: 227 players since february 2019

eulerscheZahl: is one of the more popular games

lopidav: that's a lot. I think 10 somewhat active programmers is a good amount to playtest like that

lopidav: cc2 let's you share/sell etc without permission as long as there is a credit given?

Astrobytes: also, be forewarned: it's a tough crowd ;)

lopidav: *without asking for a permission

eulerscheZahl: you as a creator can sell it after publishing here

eulerscheZahl: not sure if we could do so while giving credit

eulerscheZahl: we can share for sure

lopidav: Astrobytes in which way?

eulerscheZahl: we find bugs and then complain about them. even if very minor

lopidav: >Adapt — remix, transform, and build upon the material for any purpose, even commercially.

eulerscheZahl: ah, ok (didn't read the license in a while)

jacek: who reads license :o

Astrobytes: Legal teams jacek

struct: I didnt even know there was a license until now

eulerscheZahl: i know that i'm fine when I want to use an MIT licensed code

lopidav: CoC puzzles are kinda sold, aren't they?

struct: someday Yavalath creator comes knock at my door

jacek: how will he know its you

Astrobytes: :smirk:

eulerscheZahl: that's why you deleted your account struct?

Astrobytes: I think he'd probably be OK with it considering what it's used for

struct: exactly

Astrobytes: And you're not selling it

struct: He is ok, he knows about it

struct: aCat knows him and talked with him about it

eulerscheZahl: even got a private message from one user saying that he'll buy the board game now

eulerscheZahl: onitama

Astrobytes: Oh really? Nice

struct: yes

struct: But I published the game before knowing this

Astrobytes: haha, free advertising eh euler

Astrobytes: That's just your inner pirate struct

eulerscheZahl: and ornicar knows about Vindinium

jacek: a certain game 'board' is really cheap - just some :notebook: and :pencil:

Astrobytes: Don't be so arrrrd on yourself :P

struct: Im sure most of the people will be happy their board game is being freely advertised

eulerscheZahl: he's the one behind lichess btw

Astrobytes: yeah that's right. You asked permission first right?

eulerscheZahl: no, MIT license

Astrobytes: ah OK

eulerscheZahl: but unihedron shared a screenshot of a discord message (other server) where he was told about the CG port

Astrobytes: struct: and used for bot programming too

Astrobytes: euler: and he was cool with it I assume

eulerscheZahl: totally

Astrobytes: struct: did you fix The Bug yet?

struct: yes

struct: I added - 1 and it works now

Astrobytes: -1 to what?

struct: int nextFirstId = pool[firstId].firstChildIndex; // This lastId - 1 fixed it?????????? int nextLastId = pool[lastId - 1].lastChildIndex;

eulerscheZahl: nextLastId that name

Astrobytes: so my off by one was kinda right in a way

utlumurat: hello all could you advice me any source about beam search

Astrobytes: wait for firstNextLastId

struct: euler the name is not the worse about my code

struct: you should see the function I shared here the other day

struct: void Agent::think(Table* lookup, const int8(&pieces)[8][2], int8(&check)[HEIGHT * WIDTH][2], int8& checkCounter, int8(&cells)[32][2], int8(&visited)[WIDTH][HEIGHT]);

struct: was it this one?

Astrobytes: utlumurat:

Astrobytes: yes that's the one struct

utlumurat: thank you Astrobytes

struct: That is one of many astro


Astrobytes: lol. As long as you can read it

eulerscheZahl: note: don't ask struct for help regarding clean code

eulerscheZahl: that used to be ThunderbirdOne's task :(

Emmaplayz: bla bla bla

Astrobytes: ThunderbirdOne still pops in here now and then euler

eulerscheZahl: maybe during my office hours?

Astrobytes: yeah, come to think of it I think so

Astrobytes: He's just busy with work and life iirc

eulerscheZahl: and smits comes when i'm asleep

eulerscheZahl: so smits = tooth fairy

Astrobytes: that reasoning

Astrobytes: does he leave bitboards under your pillow?

eulerscheZahl: :D

MSmits: hey, i am lurking

MSmits: i expect a tooth tonight

MSmits: better pick a fight with your neighbor

Astrobytes: :rofl:

eulerscheZahl: he keeps ordering packages and isn't at home when they arrive

Astrobytes: Definitely worthy of violent confrontation.

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: he's probably violating covid rules as well

Astrobytes: Spray paint "covidiot" on his door and break his windows. He should give you a good right hook for that at least.

Astrobytes: Disclaimer: Don't.

MSmits: lol

LastRick: That's no way to dislodge a tooth. Didn't none of y'all watch Santa Clause 2?

Astrobytes: The Tim Allen one?

LastRick: yes

Astrobytes: Hm, I only recall seeing the first one.

LastRick: the middle, oft overlooked one has a lot of Tooth Fairy in it for some reason

Astrobytes: we already established that MSmits is the tooth fairy

darkhorse64: MSmits: I could not get the bias thing for win/teccles/freemoves in my select to work, so I made it really dirty: bypass search for "teccles" strategy and play it straight. I moved from the 19th to 12th (1.5 ELO more). Not too bad for 10 lines

Astrobytes: I thought that was what people were doing with the teccles heuristic anyway

advq: Hello, Can I get this week puzzle link; thanks!


advq: thanks man; I deleted from notifications haha

darkhorse64: I was thinking that biasing search would be enough. Actually, it just like I have an opening book not very deep

eulerscheZahl: while submitting the default code is enough for the quest, you are supposed to optimize your score at that puzzle

darkhorse64: Don't. I want to score more points with my one liner

Astrobytes: there probably is a way to do it via biasing but whether it would be better, I'm not sure

Astrobytes: darkhorse64: I pm'd you a nice combination previously

darkhorse64: It's in production (as in farming)

darkhorse64: Actually, it's a kind of optimisation: which arrangement of the four letters will score the most

darkhorse64: I guess euler is bad reading me

darkhorse64: *mad*

eulerscheZahl: not at all

darkhorse64: Of course, scoring < 0.1% of the best mark is not really an achievement

darkhorse64: Already +50 people for the puzzle; dbdr is harvesting

Skynse: println!("Hello everyone");

darkhorse64: Only python code is accepted

darkhorse64: :relaxed:

eulerscheZahl: but the highest ranked among the new players is at #39

Westicles: You should try it, pretty fun


darkhorse64: I have seen also n-tuple based solutions

eulerscheZahl: while the number of default code submissions increased from 8 to 34

eulerscheZahl: *35 lastrick i see what you are doing

LastRick: Probably silly Q about 2048: What's the significance of the test names?

eulerscheZahl: random seed used

eulerscheZahl: (starting from empty board)

eulerscheZahl: so what you get as an input is after 2 random numbers were generated

LastRick: ok. I have to confess, I know nothing about this game. So for me, it was a perfectly reasonable Q

Emmaplayz: bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bala bal

eulerscheZahl: even if you played the game day and night, you wouldn't know those numbers

eulerscheZahl: fair warning Emmaplayz

LastRick: oh ok

Emmaplayz: what

eulerscheZahl: stop writing "bla bla bla", was your 2nd time already

Astrobytes: stop bla bla'ing or you'll be kicked

Emmaplayz: why

eulerscheZahl: yes, that

Emmaplayz: your just mean

eulerscheZahl: my just mean what?

Astrobytes: No, you're just spamming.

Emmaplayz: i did it beacuse im bored

eulerscheZahl: then the chat isn't the right place for you

Emmaplayz: what

Emmaplayz: how old are

Emmaplayz: you

Default avatar.png JBM: eulerscheZahl: I'm not nagging you to come and moderate it, note ;p

FatPuppy: The website says you can challenge a friend.. I can't see where or does it not support a private 2 player challenge?

Emmaplayz: how old are youeulerscheZahl

eulerscheZahl: the troll game? i want to look into your freecell contribution

struct: clash of code supports it

eulerscheZahl: that's irrelevant Emmaplayz

Emmaplayz: how do you ban

LastRick: what makes a game of 2048 end? in other words, if I just input "U", shouldn't it end when the board is filled?

eulerscheZahl: 600 turns

eulerscheZahl: CG limitations

eulerscheZahl: you can print multiple actions like ULR

eulerscheZahl: which is why the map generator is public so you know how spawns work

LastRick: it says U is invalid, is that because the pieces are already at the top?

Westicles: Hint: You can get 50M without using D (insert D joke as you see fit)

eulerscheZahl: yes LastRick. try another direction ;)

LastRick: thanks. is that in the instructions? I didn't see it. I just assume it would keep filling

eulerscheZahl: you have to make a valid push first

eulerscheZahl: might be that i missed mentioning it

eulerscheZahl: and so far no one complained as the game is well known

Westicles: yeah, just play it a few times, easier than thinking

LastRick: never assume the user has played it, especially me

eulerscheZahl: fix it

LastRick: :)

LastRick: url blocked

eulerscheZahl: where are you? at work?

LastRick: work, home it's all the same these days :)

eulerscheZahl: true

Westicles: People don't play games any more, they just watch streams of it

LastRick: ^ so true

LastRick: people just sitting around for hours watching others play Smash, Runescape, chess. I would've never predicted Twitch. Never.

Westicles: There is another pastime popular when I was a teen going the same way

Astrobytes: not just sitting around: donating money

eulerscheZahl: meanwhile i haven't even heard of many of the now popular games

LastRick: Astro: millions. To have other watch you pay Overwatch

Astrobytes: Yeah. It's incredible.

LastRick: How am I supposed to convince some kid to study Thermo and get "a good paying" engineer job when there's this out there as another option?

Astrobytes: Right. Or becoming an "influencer"...

Astrobytes: Don't get me started.

LastRick: yep, that's all they think about now.

twitlydoof: you convince them through probability

LastRick: That moment when the chat turned into a bunch of old men, complaining about whippersnappers

Astrobytes: :older_man:

Astrobytes: Valid points regardless.

Westicles: They'll come out with a decent nootropic in the next few years and it will fix them all

Default avatar.png CheerJia: Hello

Astrobytes: Yeah, I can see that coming Westicles

Uljahn: what is survivorship bias, Automaton2000

Automaton2000: or when you are done

jacek: AutomatonNN how old are mods

AutomatonNN: what do you mean?

Emmaplayz: nerds

Emmaplayz: :nerd:

Astrobytes: Yes?

eulerscheZahl: sorry I lost patience

Astrobytes: I almost did it earlier without a warning if I'm completely honest.

Astrobytes: And I have the patience of a saint.

LastRick: Ok, Euler, I think I'm getting the hang of it. I improved my bot 100x by inputting something other than U every time

eulerscheZahl: great

Astrobytes: now get 1st :)

eulerscheZahl: random replay of my bot:

eulerscheZahl: keep in mind others are much better than me

LastRick: Are you hiding some moves in the replay?

eulerscheZahl: no. combining several in a single frame

LastRick: thats what i meant. it seems like it jumps ahead

eulerscheZahl: if i generate a new frame for each move, the replay gets extremely laggy and will most likely crash your tab :(

LastRick: ok

eulerscheZahl: watch it and don't jump between frames via arrow keys

eulerscheZahl: top players get a replay duration of several hours

LastRick: ah i see what you mean. its only when you use the arrow keys that it jumps

LastRick: it seems like the general idea is the maximize the open space on the board by either combining or moving pieces to the edge

eulerscheZahl: yeah, keep the largest in the corner

eulerscheZahl: and then form some kind of snake

LastRick: yep

LastRick: like some weird extension of tron

LastRick: later gtg for a run. finally warmed up enough i wont instantly freeze

eulerscheZahl: how warm/cold is it?

eulerscheZahl: in Celsius please

LastRick: hah

LastRick: 9. sorry had to do the math :)

eulerscheZahl: not that cold at all

Dartisan: Hi, had you got the news:

Dartisan: Thought on CodinGame when reading: Quantum Monte Carlo

Astrobytes: wave function <shudder>

Astrobytes: PTSD from materials chemistry

Astrobytes: Cool research though

Uljahn: ye, that's cool when NN gives you right results most of the time, but when it's wrong you're screwed not being able to debug or explain such a behavior

Dartisan: Yes, I like to see in which speed these domains growth currently.

Default avatar.png RyanGilbert: Are few people online currently?

Default avatar.png RyanGilbert: Just wondering if I should stream or not

Emmaplayz: hi

Emmaplayz: yes

Emmaplayz: i can talk

Emmaplayz: :rolling_eyes:

Default avatar.png RyanGilbert: You're that toxic person right

Default avatar.png RyanGilbert: >XD

ProgrammerDog: hi guys

Default avatar.png draconis19: morning

Default avatar.png Jyriane: hey

Default avatar.png Jyriane: The first letter should be capitalized, the second lower, the third again capitalized,... and so on.

Default avatar.png bugsr2bad: hello

Default avatar.png Jyriane: :upside_down:

Default avatar.png Czihi: What is this clash of code question XDDD

Default avatar.png Czihi: Draw polynomial in 9x9 matrix xD

Default avatar.png Czihi: That's kinda sick lol

Default avatar.png Czihi: Everyone just insta submitted to be faster in getting 0% LOL

eulerscheZahl: this one?

Default avatar.png Czihi: Exactly this one xD

Default avatar.png Czihi: I mean, its interesting

Default avatar.png Czihi: But judging by usual clash of code questions

Default avatar.png Czihi: That are mainly like do something on array

Default avatar.png Czihi: Its kinda sick heh

eulerscheZahl: i agree, doesn't look appropriate for a clash

Jyriane: :joy:

Default avatar.png i-dont-know: aa

eulerscheZahl: 7 hours from the first to last comment for that contribution

eulerscheZahl: seems that approval was a bit rushed

Astrobytes: looks like it

PeterD26codinmaster: :grinning:

eulerscheZahl: and the equation is valid python syntax

eulerscheZahl: heavily favoring that language over others

Astrobytes: lol, so it is

eulerscheZahl: if you give a bad rating to those clashes, they'll get removed even after approval

Default avatar.png RustyPony_f572: pikachu xd

Astrobytes: classroom time again is it?

Jyriane: :relieved:

jacek: pony eh

Default avatar.png Piokemon: where i can join to clash?

Default avatar.png draconis19: go to the #clash channel

LastRick: Euler how could tell that was seven hours on the submission, (I believe you) but I dont see that in the timestamps

Emmaplayz: how do you code?

Default avatar.png draconis19: typing

Default avatar.png draconis19: :blush:

Emmaplayz: haha

Default avatar.png draconis19: laugh now, cuz im just getting started on this site.

Default avatar.png draconis19: :smiling_imp:

ZarthaxX: xd

Emmaplayz: you mean XD\

Emmaplayz: youse caps

eulerscheZahl: LastRick exact time shows on mouseover

Astrobytes: yeah ZarthaxX, ECKS-DEE

ZarthaxX: LOL

LastRick: half an hour between all 3 approvals

Westicles: shameful, all just for some XP

Default avatar.png Piokemon: how to get up in ranking?

Default avatar.png Piokemon: clash of code?

TsakBoolhak: i guess completing clashs ^^

eulerscheZahl: not just completing. winning!

TsakBoolhak: the best place you have the best it is, i guess

TsakBoolhak: better it is*

TsakBoolhak: how, so let's say you're 2/8 your rank doesnt go up?

LastRick: yes, winning doesnt necessarily mean you'll go up

LastRick: this is my favorite social media. can i get this chat on an app? :)

Default avatar.png draconis19: yes you can,

Astrobytes: mmm I think Jabber works, not sure what else

Default avatar.png draconis19: just download discord

LastRick: Of course you can. I was half kidding bc of the goofy stuff that seems to happen on here

VizGhar: > The CodinGame chat uses XMPP, which means you can use an external XMPP client, such as Pidgin or Gajim.

Astrobytes: ah gotcha

NoiselessBrocolli_c9f0: super

NoiselessBrocolli_c9f0: :grinning:

ian173: How do I convince clash im not a robot

Astrobytes: Clash less

ian173: These captchas getting annoying

LastRick: I convince it by losing more

VizGhar: Aren't you one of those, that immediately leaves clash, just to get to Achievement? :)

VizGhar: += ASAP

LastRick: i'm the guy that looks at the clash and sees a novel and I'm like i aint got all day to be reading stuff

Westicles: That's what I did. Clicked through 50 to get mod rights

NoiselessBrocolli_c9f0: :100:

Default avatar.png draconis19: what other channels are there?

Westicles: #thenaughtylady

Astrobytes: this web chat isn't linked to the discord

Astrobytes: lol

Default avatar.png draconis19: oh

Default avatar.png sudo-u[Artemis]: :)

Default avatar.png sudo-u[Artemis]: it was fun

Default avatar.png draconis19: u can finally chat when ur lvl 3

Default avatar.png draconis19: right Astrobytes?

LastRick: sounds right

Astrobytes: yep

jacek: right AutomatonNN?

jacek: AutomatonNN where are you

AutomatonNN: more than that

Astrobytes: But you can join the discord just by clicking the link at the top

LastRick: Uh oh

LastRick: had me worried for a sec

jacek: or by pissing of the celestia

Default avatar.png draconis19: i have an discord

MACKEYTH: Oh, wow. CoC is a whole different beast with Python

Default avatar.png draconis19: I joined the discord I'm draconis190

VizGhar: try ruby :)

Astrobytes: nice one draconis19

Default avatar.png draconis19: really im on your discord server

Default avatar.png draconis19: and nice pic on discord Astrobytes

Astrobytes: same cat as my pic on here but in kitten form

Emmaplayz: ok

Emmaplayz: who cares

Default avatar.png draconis19: cute!!

Astrobytes: still hanging around here I see Emmaplayz

Astrobytes: jacek:

Default avatar.png draconis19: what does CG stand for?

eulerscheZahl: CodinGame

Default avatar.png draconis19: so u have a clan?

Astrobytes: no, the [CG] indicates staff members

Default avatar.png draconis19: oh

Default avatar.png draconis19: in that case, ima start a private clash

Default avatar.png draconis19: and if you want to join my clash, go to the #clash channel!

jacek: oO

Velcoro: (I'm sorry that it sounds like a humble brag question) I have 71/72 silver achievements and couldn't figure out which is the one missing.. or is it bugged?

struct: I think its from a removed puzzle

mzbear: if the achievement list doesn't have remarks on any of the entries, i'd say it's a bug regardless of whether the last achievement can be obtained or not

Velcoro: ah I see, thank you

MSmits: damn

MSmits: my D&B is going well

MSmits: I just finished a heuristic bot, just handle the endgame with some sensible heuristics. Easy top 10

RoboStac: velcoro - check the mars lander ep 1 achievement

RoboStac: theres a silver level to it you don't have

struct: robo is right

Velcoro: oh, I see, cool, thanks!

AIDRI: Is the Codingame team going to add the Julia language one day ?

MSmits: romeo and julia?

MSmits: The shakespear language>

MSmits: ?

AIDRI: ahah

AIDRI: no, this one

AIDRI: that's a very good langage

MSmits: I was serious though



mzbear: if the site starts adding esoteric languages, i want to see INTERCAL

MSmits: hey mzbear. I made 4th D&B

MSmits: no search, no end game solver

Astrobytes: lol gj

MSmits: yeah, i remember when dbdr was nr 1 and they discussed all that minimax stuff

MSmits: his bot is now 9

MSmits: so minimax is not the way to go here, at least not the way it was done before

mzbear: MSmits, i didn't finish my heuristics or I'd be a bit higher myself. My bot currently always takes a square if it can, even if that leads to enemy getting an entire chain in return

Astrobytes: you used your research in your heuristic bot though?

struct: I only know chains from STC

MSmits: i used only the basic heuristics you will find in any paper about D&B, nothing advanced. I have a few more I could add, but I am not going to bother. The solver should take care o fit

MSmits: its a bit difficult to fit in

MSmits: my solver only calculates the value of the board, it has to actually produce a move

mzbear: i'm currently looking at Bandas, i love the simplicity of the rules in this one

MSmits: yeah bandas is cool

MSmits: plain mcts works best

Astrobytes: speaking of dbd r, didn't see him around for a bit

MSmits: i saw him less than a week ago

MSmits: talking about some optim

MSmits: forgot which

MSmits: btw: My D&B bot does random moves till end game

MSmits: just to add to insult

MSmits: it just avoids giving away boxes

MSmits: and takes boxes that are given away

MSmits: so random about half the game

Astrobytes: ah cool. lol, random then greedy

MSmits: yeah exactly

Astrobytes: love it

Astrobytes: did you check out reCurs e chess yet?

MSmits: oh, is it live>

MSmits: ?

Astrobytes: it's in WIP now yeah

MSmits: ohh ok

MSmits: well queens gambit got me back into chess, so this has become a bit more interesting to me as well, otherwise i would have probably ignored it like the go game

Astrobytes: I've not written anything for it yet but it's rather good

MSmits: i'll check it out

MSmits: hope its not too easy to just copy stockfish into it

MSmits: at least the generalized parts

Astrobytes: I doubt that

jacek: queen's gambit eh?

MSmits: good

Astrobytes: Queen's Gambit? You've been studying chess openings?

MSmits: awesome jacek :)

MSmits: no the series, but yeah openings too

DomiKo: jacek how you always have a meme for anything?

Astrobytes: I've never heard of the series

MSmits: i did some games on over 1200 rating now after not playing for 30 yrs

jacek: its simple - i have no life

MSmits: you should really watch it

DomiKo: ohhh

darkhorse64: It's really a high quality contrib but I believe Chess960 should be a multi on its own. Once you have reached league 2, you are playing the crazy house variant. There is no turning back

jacek: oh there are 2 different leagues

Astrobytes: It's to avoid booking darkhorse64

jacek: yeah, its like go 9x9 13x13 19x19

struct: one is 960

struct: other is crazy house 960

darkhorse64: There is no booking at Chess960

Astrobytes: Oh wait, I thought you meant normal chess + 960

Default avatar.png piedro: test

Metanoob: hey! just dropping a line for people who like chess. I recommend 5D chess it's on steam but you can prob find it cheaper somewhere else. It's chess with time travel basically

Astrobytes: gotcha now darkhorse64

Default avatar.png piedro: Hello I have a question, how do you pass from wood to other leagues ?

Default avatar.png piedro: from wood to bronze

Default avatar.png piedro: ?

Metanoob: @piedro once you beat the boss of your league in the ranking you are getting to the next league

Astrobytes: He's considering separate contributions for each darkhorse64

jacek: you need to be above boss after you submit

Metanoob: yeah not beating, my bad, beating it's ranking

Metanoob: its*

MSmits: can someone link the contribution?

Astrobytes: oh hey Metanoob

Default avatar.png piedro: @Metanoob I am ranked 1/46112 somehow now but still in the Wood one

MSmits: the page is lagging fo rme

Astrobytes: Chess:

MSmits: probably my meta mcts hogging cpu :P

jacek: crazyhouse960 aka antimsmits chess

Metanoob: hey Astrobytes! how are you?

MSmits: :)

Astrobytes: alll good, and you?

Astrobytes: wrong link, sorry:

MSmits: 960 means the bottom row?

Metanoob: same thank you :) on holidays atm so more time to kill

MSmits: i suspect bishops still have separate colors

MSmits: oh right, it says in description

Metanoob: oh piedro, I think it may take some time depending on when you got that rank... If it has been more than a few hours I don't think I know what would cause that

struct: yeah

Astrobytes: yeah, more time to code :)

struct: also the king must start between two towers

struct: iirc

struct: rook*

MSmits: doesnt this actually make it 480 possibilities>

MSmits: symmetry>

MSmits: ?

struct: its 959 + standard

reCurse: Well at least you're not a math teacher :D

MSmits: I mean left-right

MSmits: or is that already incorporated

Metanoob: haha yes @Astrobytes

reCurse: How would the symmetry work with one queen?

MSmits: what i mean is

MSmits: you can mirror x the board

MSmits: and you get the same setup

MSmits: except mirrored = uses the same opening book movs

MSmits: so i would need to create a book for 480 starts

jacek: "Randomizing the main pieces had long been known as shuffle chess, but Fischer random chess introduces new rules for the initial random setup, "preserving the dynamic nature of the game by retaining bishops of opposite colours for each player and the right to castle for both sides".[5] The result is 960 unique possible starting positions."


MSmits: jacek yes, but this does not incorporate horizontal mirror symnmetry I believe

jacek: x_x

darkhorse64: MSmits needs UTF32 to store all these books

darkhorse64: :relaxed:

MSmits: well consider that I use less thab 1500 moves for Yavalath and i have room for 50-80k

MSmits: It's still doable, but would take too long

darkhorse64: 960 meta MCTS

MSmits: nope 480

jacek: why 480

MSmits: maybe I am not being clear enough sorry, let me try again

MSmits: if i take all pieces on A and place them on H

MSmits: B on G

jacek: imagine standard chess, a4 isnt the same as h4

darkhorse64: Books ready for retirement

MSmits: C on F

MSmits: D on E

MSmits: i mirrored the pieces in the horizontal direction

MSmits: this is also a 960 setup

MSmits: a different one

MSmits: so these two can use the same book

jacek: are you really gonna book chess960

MSmits: in standard chess it isnt jacek

MSmits: but thats because of the king and queen

MSmits: now you can switch them

MSmits: if you take standard chess and switch king and queen, the game is exactly the same

reCurse: I am pretty sure you misunderstand

MSmits: just all moves are mirrored

reCurse: The symmetry doesn't work because of castling

MSmits: hmm how is that

jacek: ahh in 960 castling always end as standard chess

MSmits: just to be clear, I am *not* going to book this

MSmits: not even if i can

MSmits: too much work

MSmits: I like the game though, i will give it a try at some point

MSmits: btw, the different starts do share transpositions

Astrobytes: check the wiki page I linked MSmits

Astrobytes: hopefully explains some things

MSmits: hmm i see, so it has different castling left and right

MSmits: regardless of queen and kings position

MSmits: so if you mirror the game, you cant mirror all the moves

MSmits: 960 then :)

MSmits: anyone have a replay from the game?

jacek: :tada:


Astrobytes: the day you don't question something will be a sad day indeed MSmits ;)

MSmits: share something jacek

MSmits: err

MSmits: share replay

MSmits: true Astrobytes

MSmits: *not authorized*

jacek: go to the contribution and last battles

MSmits: cant, no bot

jacek: submit something

MSmits: maybe full leaderboard

reCurse: Can't share replays for WIP?

jacek: printing random will make random move

reCurse: Sucks

MSmits: wow reCurse, you even made it beginner friendly

MSmits: it just does moves

reCurse: It even checkmates once in a blue moon.

MSmits: very cool, gj

jacek: woah, even threefold repetition detection

MSmits: mmh this will have endgame books though

reCurse: Good luck fitting those

jacek: not the second league

MSmits: small ones :)

reCurse: Do small tablebases even exist?

MSmits: whats different in second league?

MSmits: I would just generate them myself

reCurse: Crazyhouse

reCurse: aka no endgame

MSmits: ohh

MSmits: no endgame books then

reCurse: Looks like I'll be publishing both so

Astrobytes: It's AntiSmits Chess

MSmits: had to look up what crazyhouse was

jacek: all you have left is only middle books

MSmits: reCurse dont do them both at once, new multis are popular for a while before people move on. If you leave one for later, you get a second wave

reCurse: Hmm.

reCurse: They don't even get notifications, would it matter?

MSmits: people know on chat. But it's your choice obviously. I've just noticed this is how it goes

Astrobytes: I think interested parties would do both regardless

MSmits: of course

MSmits: maybe it doesnt matter, i dont know

MSmits: might be trivial to adapt

MSmits: (the bot)

reCurse: I made it so it should be straightforward to submit on both.

Astrobytes: and we'll have somewhere to point chess-y people too

Astrobytes: *to

MSmits: yeah, there's been a lot of talk about chess on CG

MSmits: might even draw some new players

Astrobytes: just the usual lack of exposure issue

hexando: first place in coder strike. I want kids from myself

struct: end game table bases are too big

struct: but maybe you can do something like it

reCurse: Personally I'd rather leave that space for a NN, if I ever get to it

jacek: 50 ms?

MSmits: struct I have 2 million positions in bandas, 50 million or so in oware I think

MSmits: you can generate them in the 1st second

MSmits: not sure how expensive chess endgame books are to generate

struct: Well you want to generate for all possible states

reCurse: They are usually downloaded rather than generated

reCurse: Might give a hint

MSmits: yes, but it depends very heavily on the number of pieces

MSmits: a 7 piece db is like 30 times bigger than a 6 piece


MSmits: i am just pulling the 30 number out of my ***

MSmits: but its a big number

MSmits: so small db might be possible in 1 second

MSmits: maybe 3 pieces

struct: I think 3 pieces is the only realistic one

Astrobytes: smits, if you somehow manage to book this I'll give you 0.5€

MSmits: yeah, but that still helps

MSmits: Astrobytes we're talking engame books

reCurse: That confident incentive

MSmits: i wont do opening for sure

MSmits: i have 3 piece checkers one

MSmits: havent put it into my bot

MSmits: locally i have a 6 piece checkers one

Astrobytes: well, best of luck with it

MSmits: not for a while. I'll submit the random bot though :)

MSmits: so cool that you dont even need to code anything

MSmits: this is gonna have thousands of players

Astrobytes: btw if 0.5€ is like 1200 GBP or something next year I reserve the right to reduce the amount accordingly :P

MSmits: lol

reCurse: Cautious pessimism, I like

jacek: try 0.5btc

Astrobytes: No.

jacek: lets ask CG to install this

MSmits: chess moves confuse me

MSmits: i mean the notation

MSmits: sometimes they only use the destination, because only one piece can go there


MSmits: if you need a whole page to explain the notation, it's too complicated :P

reCurse: Says... the physics teacher.

MSmits: bah, maxwells equation fit on 2 lines

MSmits: ok so the standard model lagrangian is a page

reCurse: Just be glad it's not the descriptive notation

MSmits: but if the entire workings of the universe takes the same amount of space as your games' notation explanation, something is wrong :P

Astrobytes: eww maxwells

Astrobytes: PTSD again

MSmits: ah you had to do that for chemistry?

Astrobytes: yeah it was a thing

MSmits: didnt know chemists learned so much physics

MSmits: i know they do quantum

Astrobytes: It's quite important, we don't go as deep as you guys though

MSmits: I see

Astrobytes: well, physical chemists do

Astrobytes: biologists tend not to

MSmits: well chemistry is basically just an offshoot of phyiscs anyway

Astrobytes: yep

Astrobytes: and a cool one at that

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: the physicists of 200 years ago were also chemists

MSmits: and mathematicians

jacek: :scream:

Astrobytes: well yeah, there wasn't much of a disciplinary separation at that point (still isn't if we're honest about it)

MSmits: mmh a lot more now though. In my university, Computer science, math and physics do similar classes in the first year

MSmits: but after that it splits

MSmits: physicists still do some pure math classes, but not very many

MSmits: and i dont think mathematicians do any physics

MSmits: after the first year that is

Astrobytes: I had the same crap at highschool, I failed maths due to a bad teacher, yet I was able to do higher physics, chemistry and biology with ease.

MSmits: thats annoying

MSmits: i didnt have a high math grade either

MSmits: its not that i didnt get it

MSmits: it just wasnt interesting because it wasnt applied

Astrobytes: Yes, I really enjoyed maths. I had to do some catchup on it afterwards.

Astrobytes: Oh yeah, I totally get that.

MSmits: later on i was doing pure math writing scripts for a 3D game, linear algebra and such and i liked it then

MSmits: matrices and all that

MSmits: there was a point to it

MSmits: I had to shoot space ships that were moving at a distance of 2 km

Astrobytes: Yup. When you find a purpose it's so much better. Not sure how it's taught nowadays, perhaps they have relevant examples now

MSmits: probably it is a lot better now

MSmits: but math and physics teacher have to deal with a lot of poor attitude in students.

MSmits: as in "I cant do it anyway, so why try"

Astrobytes: Yes, comes with the subject. Happens with any scientific or tech-based subject I find.

MSmits: they convince themselves they cant, so they dont have to work through the frustration of failing often

Astrobytes: Yep.

MSmits: parents dont help either

Astrobytes: And they've most likely been told they're crap at x, y or z anyway

Astrobytes: haha yes, see above

MSmits: a girl will tell her mother, mother says, yeah i couldnt do it either

Astrobytes: So, so true.

DaMonk: My favorite math mantras is: "Even if you think it will fail, try your idea".

MSmits: sometimes failure is funny

MSmits: like when it ends saying 2 = 1

Astrobytes: hehe indeed

Astrobytes: I remember doing calculus, I was in the hospital waiting room visiting a relative, and scribbling down some practice. Burst out laughing because my end result was essentially what I started with but wrong.

Astrobytes: It hadn't really clicked at that point

MSmits: and thats when the other patients were wondering if this was the right waiting room

Astrobytes: Probably :D

Astrobytes: but yeah, failure is great when you're learning, as DaMonk mentioned, it's a great tool. It just has a bad rep

jacek: its like making a bug that makes your bot stronger

MSmits: that does the opposite

MSmits: it prevents you from learning because fixing the mistake makes it worse :P

Astrobytes: Yes. Fixing the bug that made your bot stronger and keeping it stronger is a little more useful.

MSmits: did you have this happen to you Astrobytes?

MSmits: I think it's the absolute worst

MSmits: happened maybe twice to me

MSmits: you know it's a bug and you want to fix it, but you cant submit

Astrobytes: Yes. That's literally the story of my Oware bot.

MSmits: heh, even now my oware bot has some weird unexplainable eval features

Astrobytes: It's a weird game :shrug:

MSmits: like some lookup arrays with weird param values. I tried to turn it into a sensible function, but nothing helped

jacek: mine's eval is quite unexplainable

MSmits: yes but thats by design :)

Astrobytes: heh true

MSmits: jrke going to be annoyed :P

MSmits: just lucky though, bad statistics

jacek: meh look at crazy remi

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: gonna need more to have a chance there

MSmits: got some ideas

Astrobytes: well, jrk e *did* want you to submit, so he brought that on himself :D

MSmits: well he wanted to see my solver, it would be cool if it predicts the endgame score halfway through the game

MSmits: have to get that working too, hope it actually works, didnt do too much verification

Astrobytes: do all you can without it first I'd say

Astrobytes: wow, Crazy Remi has a crazy lead

MSmits: hmm i dunno. I have 2 ideas and they both requrie a lot of code

MSmits: will end up with a 3k line bot

Astrobytes: So be it.

MSmits: the difference between crazi remi and the rest is really that he prepares for the endgame

MSmits: as opposed to just playing the endgame out efficiently

MSmits: he plays the first half and the second half, wheras everyone else just plays the second

MSmits: you can tell by the way he is giving away so many boxes in the first half

MSmits: he does this to make sure he has control in the end

MSmits: it doesnt matter if you're some points behind. All that matters is that you control who gets the big chains

jacek: sounds like othello, the less the better

Astrobytes: Given the nature of the game, that makes complete sense

MSmits: it's more like nim

MSmits: whomever is the last to make a non-loony move wins

MSmits: there's some chain counting rule you can use

MSmits: there have to be and odd number of long chains for p1 or even for p2, or the other way around, i forgot

Default avatar.png RyanGilbert: is twitch being annoying again

Default avatar.png RyanGilbert: my stream isnt showing up

Astrobytes: I've not delved deep enough to understand the whole thing but yes I got that far. The even/odd thing is related to board size no?

Astrobytes: RyanGilbert: it would appear so :/

Default avatar.png RyanGilbert: working now

MSmits: oh yeah, i think its related to board size

MSmits: i never got too far into that part, because i didnt need it for the solver

struct: it takes around 15 min to show up

Default avatar.png RyanGilbert: anybody want to watch?

Default avatar.png RyanGilbert:

Default avatar.png RyanGilbert: private clashes

Velcoro: link to clash?


Default avatar.png RyanGilbert: thats not mine btw

Default avatar.png RyanGilbert: join my stream on twitch

Astrobytes: you can post the direct link in #clash

Astrobytes: 2020qwerty: see above statement

Astrobytes: Velcoro, you got the link now?

Default avatar.png RyanGilbert: he joined

Astrobytes: awesome

Default avatar.png RyanGilbert: :)

Astrobytes: enjoy

Velcoro: got it, Astrobytes, thanks

OliverReider: hi

Default avatar.png RyanGilbert: Sorry to those in my stream for the end on short notice

Default avatar.png RyanGilbert: I am streaming again now

Cappefra: lol half of cbs's gold league doesn't even compile

Cappefra: csb*

MSmits: old bots

MSmits: compiler changes and all that

Cappefra: mainly cause the gold league introduces the second pod so the inputs changes completely

MSmits: oh right i forgot

MSmits: thats true ofc

Cappefra: making legend shouldn't be TOO hard on that contest I guess

MSmits: well, thats decided by the quality of the top bots

MSmits: if you're not going to write a search, legend might be difficult to achieve

MSmits: though i have to admit, i never tried this without search

MSmits: maybe you can do it with just heuristics

Cappefra: right, I should have mentioned I meant that cause I saw there's 870 people in legend :D

MSmits: mmh that's a small percentage of the total number of csb bots :)

Cappefra: that's what I think... if you have a decent physics simulation I think you can actually go with just heuristics

Cappefra: I'll have a go at that and see

MSmits: yeah, dont waste too much time on that if it doesnt work

MSmits: basically, at some point you'll need a search

MSmits: and if you've never written a search before, csb is not the right place to start

MSmits: imho

Cappefra: yeah, it could be a good chance to learn genetic algorithms

MSmits: GA works

MSmits: there's a GA starter

MSmits: if you use that, it might be easier to do

Cappefra: what kind of search do you mean? I've written a bunch of bfs and beamsearchs... not that it would help here tho

MSmits: beamsearch is a real search, but relatively simple

MSmits: I mean minimax for example

MSmits: adversarial

MSmits: GA can be adversarial, but its a bit complicated

MSmits: thats why the GA starter hekos

MSmits: helps

Cappefra: have only heard of minimax but haven't tried implementing it

MSmits: the search is pretty simple, not much code, but its annoying to have to deal with a huge simulation when learning it

MSmits: also you need to discretize moves

MSmits: like only consider +18 degrees, 0 degrees and -18 degrees

Cappefra: especially cause it must be hell to debug without a debugging environment, am I wrong?

MSmits: hmm yeah, the physics sim is hard to debug. But the GA starter already has it


MSmits: you need to adapt it

MSmits: it doesnt work right out of the box

MSmits: afaik

MSmits: i never tried, i wrote my own search

MSmits: btw if you don't know inoryy, he is our resident Deep Mind employee :)

Cappefra: oh :O that's cool

Cappefra: I was thinking of going c++ this time but I always end up being lazy and choosing c# :/

MSmits: c++ in CSB will triple your simcount

MSmits: compared to C#

MSmits: if you're just looking to get into legend, this doesnt matter

Cappefra: btw as a fun fact: a stupid bot that just compiles and isn't event able to calculate the angle between two vectors (cause it was given until gold) gets you to ~ 1900/5900 gold

Cappefra: anywyas! Thanks for your help, I better go to bed since I'm negatively crossing the 6-hours-sleep mark

MSmits: yeah go sleep, gn :)

struct: MSmits today i fixed the bug

struct: Of reusing the states

struct: It was off by 1 :/

MSmits: before or after the fix?

struct: before

MSmits: ah ok, congrats

MSmits: always nice when a nasty bug is fixed

struct: Thanks

MSmits: I hope i'll be able to put my solver into D&B tomorrow

struct: Now Im learning imgui so I can code a local arena

MSmits: I should easily be able to calculate the value to decide to keep control of the board or not, but picking the right chains to open is messy. I have to break open my negamax function

MSmits: oh nice

MSmits: i do this with windows forms only

MSmits: do you just want results or also graphic stuff?

struct: graphics

MSmits: ahh ok, i never went that far

struct: like sliders to edit params and such

MSmits: oh ok, i do use buttons and such

MSmits: gui stuff

MSmits: i meant more like, circles and lines denoting parts of the game

MSmits: like recurse does with his programs

MSmits: so you can do strategic analysis of your games

MSmits: as opposed to just win/draw/loss/score


struct: This was just for test

struct: board is randomized

MSmits: yeah thats what i meant

MSmits: that goes further than what i do

struct: ImGui is what re curse used I think

MSmits: really?

struct: Never asked, but the gui looks similar

MSmits: he should have a lot of software to choose from, could be anything

struct: Well ubisoft uses imgui

struct: So I guess he has some experience on it

MSmits: ah then you're probably right :)

tibithegreat: yep, Imgui is pretty cool

MSmits: the only visual stuff i coded that actually produced finished products are little programs in python turtle :)

MSmits: like a TTT game and such

MSmits: oh and i guess some modding for 3D game

MSmits: but next week i'll be coding yavalath in unity !

struct: Never used unity

struct: Is it simple?

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: and free mostly

tibithegreat: as far as game engines it's pretty easy to use

tibithegreat: not great on performance tho

MSmits: if you make less than 100k off your product you dont pay anything

struct: Nice, for UE I think its 1Mill

MSmits: tibithegreat you use C# so you can do anything that C# allows you to do

struct: Unreal engine

tibithegreat: MSmits yeah not a lot of triple-A games written in C#

MSmits: You can call DLL's

MSmits: code part of it in C++

tibithegreat: but at this point it's no longer easy to use :)

MSmits: true, but that's always the tradeoff :0

tibithegreat: at some point you're investing too much into making unity be something that it isn't

tibithegreat: it's great for indie games and low-budget

MSmits: depending on your project, yeah

tibithegreat: and mobile

MSmits: no doubt

tibithegreat: but afaik no AAA companies use it

tibithegreat: except for small projects

MSmits: well i dont know enough about unity to properly defend it's ability to produce AAA content, but you're right, for small stuff it's perfectg

MSmits: not too small though

mr.x: some moderator online?

struct: Tomorrow I must restart my search on how I will be able to run my smashthecode compiled inside c++

MSmits: tiny projects should be python probably

struct: yes mr.x

tibithegreat: there is also some of the work mike acton has been doing there

tibithegreat: to make it more data-oriented coding

MSmits: whats that tibithegreat?


tibithegreat: it's a guy that used to work for insomniac

tibithegreat: he had a cool talk a few years ago at cppcon but most people kinda mocked him there

tibithegreat: but then unity hired him and he's been focusing on improving the performance there

tibithegreat: and bringing these idea of "data oriented design" there

tibithegreat: it boils down to: don't write your code so it's easy for you to understand, write so that it's easy for your machine to understand it and run it

mzbear: Unity is good for quick prototyping and getting started fast, which is why it works for small teams. For larger games, they usually need to rewrite pretty much everything that Unity provides

MSmits: ahh ok

tibithegreat: mzbear did you work with unity in the last years?

mzbear: not recently. i'm actually boycotting them

tibithegreat: after the job system was introduced

mzbear: they have betrayed my trust twice

tibithegreat: I used to work in unity like 5 years ago when I was still doing indie

mzbear: the first time they betrayed me, they kept sending me spam and when i unsubscribed they later sent more, and mail headers suggested they had a separate mailing list for people who had unsubscribed from their spam

tibithegreat: lol

mzbear: the second time, i was going through privacy settings, and clicked a link to check privacy settings for some new profile thing ... and that link automatically created account on their linkedin style site

mzbear: and that account couldn't be removed and it couldn't be hidden, without having the entire unity account deleted

MSmits: nasty

mzbear: the assholes published my real life place of residence associated to my real name, because i clicked to view privacy settings

tibithegreat: hmm, maybe the bussiness of a commercial game engine for indie studios isn't as profitable as one might think

tibithegreat: these sound like desperate user retention actions

mzbear: ever since then, i haven't touched unity, and i'm still upset at them

mzbear: yeah, obviously i wasn't their customer, so they wanted to turn me into their product instead

MSmits: i wonder if these are deliberate attempts, or just fails/mistakes

tibithegreat: could be

tibithegreat: human stupidity is more often that not the reason for a lot of stuff we attribute to malice

MSmits: obviously their goal is not to piss off all the devs using it

mzbear: doesn't seem like a mistake to me, they just don't respect people who aren't bringing them money

tibithegreat: I don't think most devs check privacy settings that often

tibithegreat: or unsubscribe from stuff

tibithegreat: I just let it go to spam and never care about it

MSmits: I got an e-mail from quora earlier today

MSmits: I wanted to unsubscribe

MSmits: below the mail, instead of unsubscribe it just said: "this is a legal mail sent to our users"

MSmits: I could be pissed off at this, but i feel this is stupidity also

mzbear: well, they spammed me with newbie stuff repeatedly because i selected that i was beginner with unity. they spammed quite a lot iirc, enough to annoy me after 3 or 4 mails

struct: Well sometimes is stupidity, other times is on purpouse

struct: Did you read terms of service of Yavalath MSmits?

struct: its in the statement

MSmits: nope

MSmits: why

struct: Im joking

MSmits: oh hok

MSmits: btw, board games have no copyright unless you use names

MSmits: if i want to sell my yavalath I need to name it differently

MSmits: hence the lavalath :P

struct: They can only copyright the name?

MSmits: well other than that, it is only the hexboard and the game mechanicas

MSmits: you cant copyright those

MSmits: at least not in the US, there was some court ruling

MSmits: thats why there are so many versions of the board gane monopoly

MSmits: game

mzbear: in addition to name, shapes can also be copyrighted, but only if there's enough originality. a hexagon obviously doesn't qualify

MSmits: yeah

struct: im safe, for now

MSmits: personally i would not enjoy stealing it. If i were to sell anything, i would add something to it

MSmits: but for my game design assignment i dont really care

MSmits: i just want to pass

struct: Yeah, im not selling anything

struct: Im just promoting their game

MSmits: right

struct: I dont think AI coding will steal potential buyers

MSmits: it wont

MSmits: I might buy it

Emmaplayz: what is the most easyest code

MSmits: at some point

mzbear: well, using the same name might be an issue from a trademark point of view

MSmits: he asked permission

struct: no, I did not

struct: But he was ok with it

MSmits: he asked forgiveness

struct: I told hm 3 4 was also solved

struct: him*

MSmits: he didnt know !?

struct: IIRC he only knew about 4 4

mzbear: they have to either give you permission, or tell you to stop using it. otherwise the trademark has a risk of becoming a generic

MSmits: cool :)

struct: Good thing its made by unnamed codingamer

MSmits: yeah, will they fix that?

mzbear: once the trademark is considered generic, anyone can sell the game with the original name, as long as no original content (such as rulebook in verbatim) is copied

struct: They created a bug for it, but its not urgent

struct: I can still update the game, euler tested it

MSmits: ah cool

MSmits: anyway i gotta go, gn guys

struct: time for me aswell

struct: gn everyone

MSmits: gn

LastRick: night

Stigma: is anyone lagging as well ?

Default avatar.png Czihi: af

Default avatar.png Czihi: cant even test code in clash xP

Stigma: goes nice with my fast mode clash of code :C

Stigma: i think the bot literally won.

Stigma: is bitwolf a bot ?

Default avatar.png Czihi: Literally

Default avatar.png Czihi: there are like 10 people

Default avatar.png Czihi: That i see here

Stigma: oh god

Default avatar.png Czihi: No matter when i log in

Default avatar.png Czihi: Bitwolf, that guy with spirited away avatar

Default avatar.png Czihi: And some more

Stigma: yh

Default avatar.png Czihi: Idk if they are bots or what but wtf xD

Default avatar.png Czihi: AlkhilJohn aswell tbh

LastRick: oh its that time of night for updates

Stigma: they are

Stigma: XD

Stigma: my years old python 2 Gitc is still rocking silver

LastRick: best way to tell if they are a bot is level 7, but look at their profile. It will usually say it is a bot

Stigma: jeeeez lag is still going ;_;

Default avatar.png Czihi: yeah

Default avatar.png Czihi: time to stop clashing xP

Default avatar.png Czihi: I just realised

Default avatar.png Czihi: I play only with bots anyway

Stigma: ive been getting some players

Default avatar.png Czihi: So its a bit less exciting xD

Stigma: XD

Stigma: i havent played in a long while and when i want to this happens

LastRick: just remember its always this time of night (or day) depending on where you live

Stigma: really?

Stigma: i used to play at this times

Stigma: these*

LastRick: for the last few weeks yes

Stigma: feels bad

LastRick: yes, wonder if its permanent

SwagColoredKitteh: y'all qts

Illedan: Anyone else starting to code in the online IDE just to test something, while later having regrets to not set it up properly? -.-

Emmaplayz: what the hardest game

SwagColoredKitteh: @Illedan oh hai long time no see

SwagColoredKitteh: o i guess the @ isnt needed, gosh havent been here for a while

Skynse: level 31 goddess

SwagColoredKitteh: Emmaplayz depends on who you ask

Emmaplayz: SwagColoredKitteh whats the hardest game

Skynse: I'd say the mars cat and mouse one

Skynse: the cat and mouse one**

Skynse: my trig failed me

SwagColoredKitteh: hard question uhh, i don't know?

Emmaplayz: k

Illedan: hi swag

SwagColoredKitteh: how're you?

IfIHadATail: when you say game what are you referring to? like to do you mean a game you play against someone else or like a solo practice puzzle?

Illedan: Modelling chess for a search bot is kinda pain :thinking:

Illedan: Fine, trying the new puzzle from reCurse

Illedan: And you?

Emmaplayz: like a solo practice puzzle?


mzbear: made a bandas bot to run BFS for decisive moves only ... i run 1.6M sims to see decisive wins from 8 ply away. i don't really want to slap MCTS on this though

Emmaplayz: that was easy

Emmaplayz: whos younger then 16

Emmaplayz: and a girl

IfIHadATail: I'm 37 and guy does that count?

IfIHadATail: a guy*

Emmaplayz: no

Emmaplayz: teenager

IfIHadATail: close though

Emmaplayz: i need a teen

Emmaplayz: anybody

Emmaplayz: pls im bord

Emmaplayz: doent need to be a girl any more but still

Emmaplayz: im bord

Emmaplayz: !!!!!!!!

Emmaplayz: ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

mzbear: this is a wrong place to search for someone to entertain you :)

Emmaplayz: so what

Emmaplayz: what would you do about it

IfIHadATail: so go to twitch and bother them or something why do it here?

Emmaplayz: your 30 something play bingo

Emmaplayz: 37

mzbear: no need to be rude

Emmaplayz: how old are you

Skynse: This isn't the place for video games, it's for interactive programming

Skynse: And don't look down on people older than you, they are wiser

IfIHadATail: dont feed the trolls

Skynse: oops

Emmaplayz: 𝕊ℍ𝕌𝕋 𝕌ℙ

Emmaplayz: i dont care

Emmaplayz: im not a troll


Emmaplayz: Skynse how old are you

Emmaplayz: tell me now

Emmaplayz: i have a joke

Emmaplayz: tell me

Illedan: Please don't spam

LastRick: They've been warned all day about it

Skynse: ban em already

Skynse: wait, aw man I wish I could delete my messages now

Skynse: yeah that would be lit

Skynse: Come to think of it this is kinda sus

Emmaplayz: why sus

Skynse: like, you just came all of a sudden asking for everyone's age, but didn't specify a reason for that

Skynse: You could just tell the joke here

Wontonimo: jump into a clash of code everyone!

IfIHadATail: hard for me to clash at work unfortunately

IfIHadATail: :P

Skynse: this clash was oo easy

Skynse: too*

Skynse: gotta head to bead now

Skynse: bed*

Skynse: what's going on with my spelling lol

IfIHadATail: well you still have to do it better than the others

Skynse: This one was a fastest mode

Skynse: on*

Emmaplayz: shut up im not sus

Emmaplayz: play amoung us

Emmaplayz: youl know whats sus then

Emmaplayz: am i sus

Emmaplayz: its not like i work for the goverment

Emmaplayz: :laughing:

Emmaplayz: hahhahahahhahahahaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Emmaplayz: :thumbsdown_tone4: not sus

Emmaplayz: :thumbsup_tone5: black lives matter

Emmaplayz: :man_tone5: black lives matter black lives matter

Emmaplayz: IfIHadATail = blablabla

Emmaplayz: hohohoho in Emma words means hoho time to go

Emmaplayz: IfIHadATail

Default avatar.png Nukelets: umm

Default avatar.png Nukelets: can you like

Default avatar.png Nukelets: not be cringe please

Emmaplayz: WHAT

Emmaplayz: im not cringe my twin is

Emmaplayz: shes so cringe she has only 2 friends



Emmaplayz: dont trust me i get detenshion

Emmaplayz: well i do work for the goverment to

Emmaplayz: but who cares hahahahaha

mzbear: wtf is this bullshit, my BFS is actually winning against my MCTS

Emmaplayz: hiiiiiiii

Emmaplayz: theirs an 8 year old one this game shut up

Emmaplayz: MadKnight is only 8

Emmaplayz: look at my profile

Emmaplayz: read all about me

Emmaplayz: pls

Emmaplayz: my dad died

mzbear: are you really that desperate for attention?

Emmaplayz: no its true

Emmaplayz: your a dog anyway

Emmaplayz: haha

Emmaplayz: im also adopted

Emmaplayz: kinda

Emmaplayz: i have a steapmom

Emmaplayz: and 2 siblings


Emmaplayz: go their

Emmaplayz: anybody talk