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Kamikaze: im on wood league, its the clasic tic tac toe still haha

Default avatar.png abdulrcs: um

jacek: good morning

struct: morning

jacek: what a busy day here yesterday

jacek: perhaps ill take another look at yavalath

ScarletPhoenix: hi guys

Default avatar.png LightFury01: ello

Default avatar.png LightFury01: :)

ScarletPhoenix: i joined this yesterday, it's so cool

Default avatar.png saikoaizen: Who's good at programming?

Default avatar.png saikoaizen: ME!

Default avatar.png LightFury01: thats good

Default avatar.png LightFury01: :)

Default avatar.png LightFury01: ^^

jacek: aww

Default avatar.png Tom_Avram: Warning: your code did not read all available input before printing an instruction, your outputs will not be synchronized with the game's turns and unexpected behaviour may occur.

Default avatar.png Tom_Avram: What's with this error?

YodaMaster123: You printed output before reading input/

sirsatan: or you printed 2 times output

vladshouldgetlost: m

vladshouldgetlost: jbnj

vladshouldgetlost: ijm

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: Hello plese don't ban me

jacek: oO

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: can i write big ban theory using programming

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: language

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: i have to try it

Default avatar.png jacobisnaughty: Hello, If anyone Can Please Rate our Company. Thank You!

YodaMaster123: pls stop spammingg

YodaMaster123: *spamming

Default avatar.png jacobisnaughty: OK

Default avatar.png jacobisnaughty: :joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy:

Default avatar.png jacobisnaughty: :joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy:

Default avatar.png jacobisnaughty: :joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy::joy:

YodaMaster123: Man... what did I just say?

struct: :hammer:

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: plese stop it

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: what was the problem of this guy

Default avatar.png artic1456: wow I am level 3

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: Nice

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: but don't say in world chat

Default avatar.png artic1456: so this is world chat

Default avatar.png artic1456: :sunglasses:

Default avatar.png artic1456: :yin_yang:

Stilgart: seems no better on #world :/

struct: oh

struct: ill cleanup Stilgart

struct: just ping me next time

Default avatar.png Marie-Amelie: hey men

Stilgart: struct: nice :thumbsup:

Default avatar.png ChampionCoder: I'm like 1 STEP from getting Gold Level Coding Skills in the quests. But I din't know 3 languages:sob::sob::sob::sob::sob::sob::sob::sob::sob::sob::sob::sob::sob:

Default avatar.png ChampionCoder: I pity myself

Default avatar.png Wisart: why id there no brainfuck as a language? it would be fun to solve some codegolf with brainfuck xd

VizGhar: Not if you expect to win

Default avatar.png Wisart: ah who even cares about winning

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: One one

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood:

Westicles: These are the guys who will one day write self-driving car SW

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: What is this Westicles

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: What are u saying about

Westicles: Hi Robin_Hood

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: hi

YodaMaster123: Hey, anyone written a search for Tron?

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: are u saying about movie

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: or botprogramming

YodaMaster123: :rolling_eyes:

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood:

struct: YodaMaster123 I didnt write, but what is your question?

YodaMaster123: Is a voronoi heuristic sufficient?

struct: for legend?

YodaMaster123: Damn, it didnt even get out of W2

YodaMaster123: 1st in W2 below boss.

struct: ah

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: Yeah

struct: voronoi should be more than enough

YodaMaster123: Oh.. timeouts. Not bugs.

Default avatar.png artic1456: you guys are pros

Default avatar.png artic1456: you guys are pro's

Uljahn: we are noobs, the only pro is Automaton2000

Automaton2000: that's how i do it

MSmits: professionally Automaton2000?

Automaton2000: so what i do now

MSmits: you're the pro Automaton2000

Automaton2000: and there are no more moves

Default avatar.png artic1456: dont wery I am just level 3

Default avatar.png artic1456: and what if we are friends

MSmits: we are not weried

Default avatar.png artic1456: then at list I am a follower of you

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: hii

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: i have question about Puzzle of the day

Uljahn: :smirk:

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood:

Uljahn: hi Rockstar555

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: No robin_hood

Uljahn: :rolling_eyes:

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: hey u recognise me

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: how

struct: When you register all mods get an alert saying you are rockstar

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: ohh

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: but i am now good

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: not abuse other

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: or rules

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: alse

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: i don't be there

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: because i am handling a company codecombat as a professional developer

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: now i delete my account so that...

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: Is discord is good

jacek: new moves, MSmits?

struct: Where jacek?

Default avatar.png YusufEmad04: print("Hello World")

jacek: O

struct: Only lost vs royale

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: this is a real book war now :)

MSmits: hes got some of you booked too

MSmits: maybe i should check out those royale games while i am at it

MSmits: otherwise I'm going to be pushing him above you guys with these book war submits

struct: The war is against old john right?

jacek: yeah hes abive dbdr

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: i have no clue how good his bot it

MSmits: is

MSmits: because of the book

MSmits: my bot is around trictrac's without book

MSmits: i think i have 10-20% winrate vs dbdr

MSmits: without it

MSmits: but it's an unfair comparison, he has 300k parameters saved in his codesize :P

MSmits: codesize is a resource you can use for various things. A NN will likely have a built in book somehow

MSmits: so do ntuple bots etc, it's not explicit but hidden in the parameters

mikestratton: Remote Meetup - working on ASCII Art

jacek: oO

MSmits: if the book war goes on long enough, me and oldjohn will draw every game

MSmits: in that case, you guys can just copy our playline and draw against us

MSmits: everyone will have the same rating :)

MSmits: or maybe its like the rock paper scissors tournaments

MSmits: if you want to have a 50% winrate, you copy the playline, if not, you win against others who do not

dbdr: sounds fun :D

MSmits: it's fun to me. I was hoping someone would join me to get to that point. Then I can work backwards along the tree and find a different branch. Othello is suspected to be solved as a draw, but maybe we can prove otherwise

MSmits: your bot almost plays perfectly already dbdr

MSmits: it's like 1 mistake max per game

MSmits: but it's hard to be sure of course

dbdr: so I would just need a touch of randomness, right?

MSmits: yeah, assuming you also use it in training

MSmits: otherwise you might get some problems with overtraining

MSmits: mind you, jacek has randomness and has a stronger bot than mine

MSmits: but, i still beat him with a book

MSmits: it just took a very long time

dbdr: I don't know, sometimes the second best move is probably very close in value to the 1st

dbdr: right

MSmits: yeah, but they both may lead to a draw

dbdr: so not a loss

MSmits: sure yeah, i think there are many paths to draw

MSmits: many paths without a mistake i mean

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood:

jacek: remember at the beginning it eas the war me vs tric trac

jacek: every day vast improvement over previous day

MSmits: tric trac also has some random I think

MSmits: took me a while

jacek: if we kept this up, we would solve othello in 150ms

MSmits: nice :)

struct: I ported Othello for pieces, not war

MSmits: my bot doesn solve that great. It never makes a mistake with less than 19 squares left

struct: peace*

MSmits: so my book never goes deeper than 41

MSmits: when left alone, I think my bot plays an inferior move one out of 6 times or so

MSmits: dbdr prolly 1 out of 20

MSmits: maybe less even

MSmits: sorry struct, old john started it :P

MSmits: well the war, not the booking :P

MSmits: tric trac started that actually, but he did it for like 3 plies

MSmits: which seems pointless, most bots will do those moves right on their own

MSmits: allright sermon done, i need to get some bread

struct: I wonder if its worth to store depth > 4

struct: on STC

MSmits: does the game not start randomly?

struct: Well you can see the next 8 pieces

struct: im not talking about books

struct: Just trying every single move until depth N

struct: Obviously I cant allways do depth 5, because its 22^5 states

struct: But there are position where at depth 4 is under 20k states

MSmits: ahh ok

MSmits: well do what you can

14jblackburn: how do i create ai

Levvis: minimax!=ai

jacek: prune array

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: How to delete forum

jacek: delete system32

Default avatar.png GhostCoder9: What is Timeout: your program did not provide an input in due time

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: When made optimazation puzzle upload file say error

struct: GhostCoder9 when you dont output anything on time

struct: you might have infinite loop

struct: Robin_Hood using SDK?

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: okk

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood:

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood:

struct: stop spamming

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: now i am aking to check this

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: some problem

Default avatar.png JKROwling: hi

struct: We cant see

struct: Hi

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: why

Default avatar.png JKROwling: got galz??

Default avatar.png EtienneLipade: hi

Default avatar.png EtienneLipade: print(2**2**2**2**2**2)

Westicles: maybe ask on #FR

Default avatar.png GhostCoder9: Thanks struct,.

mzbear: euler is mean. testcase 22 of space maze lol

RoboStac: if thats the only one you are stuck on you can probably submit and get 100%

Westicles: I never tried the non-validators. How many moves is it?

mzbear: well, i implemented BFS ... and every other testcase is super fast, but that one goes hundreds of thousands of steps in and then timeouts

eulerscheZahl: space maze testcase 22:

eulerscheZahl: and another solution:

RoboStac: it isn't very long, but there are a lot of valid moves - my search tests 94000 routes before finding that one and no other test case goes over 10k

mzbear: i suppose i'll submit this to get a partial score ... oh, 100% ... hmph

eulerscheZahl: congrats for solving it :tada:

Default avatar.png tomi08150: congratulations ^^

eulerscheZahl: testcases are generated but i ran my own solver which might be a bit biased on difficulty and i discarded those testcases where mine struggled too much

mzbear: i started on this 10 hours ago, and getting all other testcases solved took only a few hours

Astrobytes: haha awesome, 8 people! Well done :)

RoboStac: my original solution used to move the car around on the platform in order to get more time

RoboStac: though I did manage to optimise it to work on turn 1 in the end

mzbear: hahaha

mzbear: that's hilarious

Westicles: Doing them manually, validator 27 was by far the hardest


wlesavo: oh, skrill also got space maze, and the second solution is in python. probably hardcode, right?

RoboStac: oh, that actually failed evn then

mzbear: anyway, a naive breadth-first search goes totally nuts on 22 because there are opportunities to keep moving several pieces back and forth for no good reason

mzbear: it's also possible that i have a bug in my code that only appears on that level

eulerscheZahl: better that way then 100% testcases solved and 1 evil validator

eulerscheZahl: than*

RoboStac: yeah

Westicles: No, skirll published... it is a real solution

mzbear: i just typically don't submit until i have 100% done

wlesavo: Westicles wow, nice

mzbear: my code is a horrible mess compared to skril's c++ solution

eulerscheZahl: python makes it even more impressive

eulerscheZahl: good news for wlesavo, now you can try it too

wlesavo: nah ill probably do a c++

wlesavo: after raic though

eulerscheZahl: of course after RAIC

eulerscheZahl: space maze won't run away

wlesavo: and ill hardcode python to check skril solution :smiley:

Westicles: love the comments

Westicles: # My C++ version run in some tens of ms, so I decided to give Python a try

  1. Disclaimer, I'm a total Python noob, please do not mind obvious mistakes :-)

eulerscheZahl: :D

eulerscheZahl: sadly only very few users will get a chance to read it

Default avatar.png Maxim251: I read it :)

reCurse: MSmits: "A NN will likely have a built in book somehow" That's a myth according to experience with lc0.

Uljahn: could be kinda true for an overfitted NN

reCurse: A net trained on endgames with less than 18 pieces still develops strong opening preferences

reCurse: So it could not possibly have memorized or overfitted opening moves

MSmits: what i mean is, you keep training it and training it and in games where it has a bad opening, it will have parameters adjusted so that the bad opening will disappear, that's all

darkhorse64: Not to say that MSmits is right but the goal of an opening is to seize a space advantage and limit opponent moves which is also true in middle and endgames

reCurse: So how is that different from scoring heuristics that would make openings disappear? Would you call those as having a built in book?

MSmits: all I meant was that if you use a meta mcts to find the best openings, the result is similar.

Default avatar.png happiegamer567: how do i find the coördinates on a game for the next checkpoint

reCurse: Yeah but I'm taking specific issue with "book", if it's not a specific tree of hardcoded moves it hardly counts as a book.

MSmits: there are differences and similarity. The similarity I was pointing to is the fact that a NN on CG specifically, uses codesize as a resource to play better

Default avatar.png happiegamer567: ?

reCurse: I'm just reminded of a debate surrounding whether leela has an implicit opening book and whether SF should be allowed one or not for fair comparison.

VizGhar: happiegamer567 which game?

MSmits: they should, imho

MSmits: it's a clear advantage

reCurse: Funny, I think they shouldn't

reCurse: Probably why it's a debate :P

MSmits: true

Default avatar.png happiegamer567: coders strike back im new here @VizGhar

MSmits: personally I will concede that it's not really fair to target specific players with a book

MSmits: but it *is* fair to create a generalized opening book to counter a NN

reCurse: I don't see any such distinction

reCurse: A book is a book

reCurse: NN has no book embedded, just features that guide openings much like scoring heuristics would

MSmits: true, but codingame has a small set of players. It is really not that hard to counter them all individually

MSmits: that would never happen in a larger setting

MSmits: NN's are more general

MSmits: their benefits translate to a larger setting

reCurse: If I train a NN on games vs those players, how is that different from countering them individually

MSmits: but you dont do you?

MSmits: you self train

reCurse: Yeah but it's not because it's a NN

reCurse: It's because of the training regiment

MSmits: ah but you can overtrain with a NN, its dangerous

reCurse: Is it

MSmits: yeah if you overtrain vs me, you tend to become weaker against different players dont you?

reCurse: If I overtrain against top 20 who happen to cover most bases, it's not necessarily bad

reCurse: It's like that tic tac toe leaderboard

reCurse: A bit like overtraining to rank high isn't it

MSmits: mmh i think TTT is a bad example, books are quite poor there

MSmits: othello is better

reCurse: Did I say tic tac toe

reCurse: My brain is still in bed

reCurse: I meant rock paper scissors

MSmits: ohh ok

MSmits: yeah thats an interesting game

MSmits: pattern recognition

MSmits: perfect for NN's i guess?

reCurse: If you have enough samples of leaderboard, maybe

reCurse: But ranking high there is clearly from exploiting other knowns

reCurse: So like overtraining I would say

reCurse: So not necessarily bad

MSmits: yeah, i should be careful to state whats fair and whats not. When it's not that clear what the game is

MSmits: is it coming up with good heuristics yourself, letting a NN do it, or hardcode specific moves

reCurse: So if the game is relatively well covered by top 20

reCurse: It's possible overtraining against them isn't that bad either

reCurse: Much like tweaking to batching

MSmits: i guess so

reCurse: There's nothing magical about NNs

MSmits: i know

reCurse: It's just an eval with more parameters

MSmits: I do a class on NN tomorrow

reCurse: Oh cool

MSmits: as a teacher

MSmits: using playground.tensorflow

reCurse: High school students?

MSmits: I build up the example slowly

MSmits: yes

MSmits: it has a lot of features you can turn on and off

MSmits: i put a lot of different versions of it in iframes with lots of exercises

reCurse: Is it just a class where you briefly expose things or an entire course

MSmits: to try to classify the datasets that it gives you

MSmits: it's 1-2 hrs, before this they did minimax, travelling salesman, bfs/dfs

reCurse: That's intense for high school, or maybe it's just the education here that sucked

MSmits: there's no coding involved

MSmits: they learn the algorithms

MSmits: without the coding

reCurse: Ok

MSmits: so lots of unplugged exercises

MSmits: this is what i like about playground.tensorflow, it really gives you an idea how NN's work

MSmits: when you try to fit the spiral and *need* hidden layers

MSmits: because the pattern is too complicated

reCurse: Yeah

MSmits: at the end they are only allowed to use the x and y inputs

MSmits: and they need multiple hidden layers

reCurse: Part of my brain clicked when I saw an example training a NN directly on a 2d image

reCurse: It behaved exactly like compression

reCurse: Well, exactly...

reCurse: Scratch that word

MSmits: similarly

reCurse: You clearly have less parameters than pixels so it has to generalize

reCurse: Thought it was another good perspective

MSmits: this doesnt use filters does it?

reCurse: No just x/y position and color as output

MSmits: ah ok

MSmits: btw, i start with "isthisacat"

MSmits: you probably know that

MSmits: it's a nice data classification example to show students

reCurse: I wonder if it came before or after hotdog or not

MSmits: oh i should look at that too

reCurse: You've watched silicon valley?

MSmits: just a few episodes

reCurse: First 4? seasons are great tv

MSmits: i should watch it fully at some point

MSmits: i guess you find a lot more recognition when watching it than i would

reCurse: Possibly

reCurse: Still has enough humor for those who don't

reCurse: Just has more layers when you do

MSmits: yeah it was nice

reCurse: Then it started sucking after

MSmits: it's like big bang theory when you're a physicist

MSmits: fun show but more so when you know the physics they use

MSmits: and that is actually correct

reCurse: I skipped on that show for a silly reason, much like many others

reCurse: I can't stand laugh tracks

MSmits: ah yeah, it's annoying when you pay attention to it. I tune it out mostly

MSmits: hey I remember there being a page with lots of examples of AI abusing simulation errors

reCurse: More specific?

MSmits: and there's also one where a ship keeps going in circles collecting coins, never going to the finishline

reCurse: Oh that's different

MSmits: yeah but i think you know what i mean

reCurse: It's reward shaping in reinforcement learning and how a bad one can lead to unintended behavior

MSmits: yeah

reCurse: Well like a bad eval function

MSmits: if you have the link, i will use it tomorrow

reCurse: Sure

reCurse: One sec


MSmits: ahh yeah

MSmits: thanks

reCurse: And I believe this is the page you were referring to


MSmits: thats it exactly, thanks!

AntiSquid: so what fun stuff did you create in tensorflow MSmits ?

MSmits: i didnt create anything, i just used the excellent example made by the tensorflow guys


AntiSquid: wasn't that on sick-it learn website? feels like i remember a different past T_T

AntiSquid: accidentally clicked on this through google, hah

MSmits: interesting

reCurse: 321k views :o

Default avatar.png Maxim251: I need show <You something

Default avatar.png Maxim251:

struct: I was shocked too

eulerscheZahl: that's even more views than Magus got

eulerscheZahl: half of them might be the googlebot

Default avatar.png Maxim251: I think this is second part. Nice watching

Default avatar.png Maxim251:

eulerscheZahl: that playground has 300 parts, not sure if stepping through generates 300 clicks

reCurse: Oh so it's a 90's hit counter? Hmm.

struct: Maybe its because its embeded here


eulerscheZahl: i don't know, just speculating

struct: Not sure if it counts for views

eulerscheZahl: this seems to be the most popular playground

struct: 1 Mill, damn

eulerscheZahl: and #2

struct: Ok, the bfs for depth N on stc is working now

player_one: That looks familiar...

player_one: :-)

player_one: I still should publish Pt3 of that C# LINQ series one of these days.

eulerscheZahl: congrats on your viral hit ;)

player_one: Haha

geppoz: System.out.println(((Character)'1').equals('0'+1));

geppoz: wtf this outputs "false"

eulerscheZahl: and if you do (char) instead of (Character)?

geppoz: can't cast to primitives I think

eulerscheZahl: '0'+1 is an int btw

geppoz: uhoh

twitlydoof: clashofcode need to fix their bug, when people get 100%, sometimes it still gives people less than 100% ignoring the last case

geppoz: you right euler

struct: testcases are different from validators

geppoz: System.out.println(((Character)'1').equals((char)('0'+1)));

eulerscheZahl: not a bug

eulerscheZahl: @twitlydoof

geppoz: this is true

struct: Just poorly implement clashes

mzbear: given a list of bitfields, is there an elegant way to locate a bit that's only set it one of the bitfields and none others?

twitlydoof: well my code was the same as another person's he got 100% while I got 80%, not sure how this is caused by validators

struct: Paste both codes here

struct: a ^ b mzbear?

eulerscheZahl: struct a *list*

eulerscheZahl: your code finds any odd number of appearances

struct: Sorry my brain is fried from STC

twitlydoof: Here's one:, compare tuan's with mine

mzbear: struct: let's say bitfields 6,3,11,7 ... the third one is the odd one out

struct: We cant check codes, because we were not on clash

twitlydoof: alright I'll put it on pastebin

eulerscheZahl: i see a way with squared runtime

eulerscheZahl: a & ~b & ~c & ~d ~a & b & ~c & ~d ...


eulerscheZahl: IDE link

eulerscheZahl: last validator has a trailing whitespace

eulerscheZahl: your input parsing crashes on empty string

eulerscheZahl: i consider that a bug in the clash but don't have moderation rights there

SBtree-bit: I'm ready!!!

eulerscheZahl: can anyone edit the last validator please?

twitlydoof: alright thank you for explaining

SBtree-bit: 2 more

struct: Ok I edited it

struct: Thanks for spotting it euler and twit

eulerscheZahl: didn't even know you played that many clashes, thanks :)

struct: I played on early days

struct: I have over 3k

jacek: oO

mzbear: ... next up: given a list of bitfields, how to find a pair of bits that are set in exactly two of the bitfields. my brain isn't working today at all :D

mzbear: no, wait, i actually need something different

mzbear: i have a feeling that if i could describe what i want, i would know how to get it. lol

jacek: rubber duck debugging to the rescue

mzbear: i'm solving that tufoshiki solver and testcase 1-4 and 7-11 can be solved with extremely simple rules ... testcases 5 and 6 are more annoying. i can reason out a logic in my head to solve these, but i can't describe it correctly, so i can't write it into code

mzbear: of course, i could write a super simple search to give me the answers, but no way i'm resorting to that :D

mzbear: i may have been slightly traumatized by Blocking

jacek: youre blocking your memory

Westicles: 1000 nails here all waiting to be hit with the same hammer

eulerscheZahl: do i want to ask what that metaphor means?

Westicles: well, if mzbear is easily bored using the same approach twice he is in trouble

mzbear: even if hammers aren't made of gold, they can be too heavy to be wielded casually

jacek: you want to do every puzzle of the week?

AntiSquid: gold bends easily

mzbear: puzzle of the week has a time limit, so it's nicely constrained. i like constrained things

eulerscheZahl: paper soccer promo campaign jacek?

jacek: it was puzzle of the week in the worst possible week :(

Astrobytes: set yourself a time limit mzbear

eulerscheZahl: contest week

struct: Guess you will never play a multi ported by me

eulerscheZahl: who?

struct: mzbear if he keeps playing puzzle of the week

mzbear: hmhm?

darkhorse64: mzbear: play yavalath. Please struct and try a very nice board game

struct: It was a failed attempt at a joke, none of my ports made it to puzzle of the week

eulerscheZahl: yavalath by unknown

mzbear: darkhorse: i'm worried that the tone for the words "very nice" aren't carried over the internet

struct: Thanks darkhorse

eulerscheZahl: i still wait for space maze, 2048, sokoban and minesweeper potw

VizGhar: Why is everybody obsessed with "puzzle of the week"? Is there any benefit from solving it?

jacek: i think yavalath was puzzle of the week?

eulerscheZahl: just a massive player boost if your contribution gets chosen

struct: no jacek

Astrobytes: what euler said, other than that, no

darkhorse64: There was no joke. I am serious. After UTTT, it's the multi I spent the most time with

eulerscheZahl: you were gone for 4 months, how should you know?

struct: notifications euler

struct: I checked them when I loged in again

eulerscheZahl: touche

darkhorse64: You need to add a league to become potw

Astrobytes: ohhhh

mzbear: 114 players in the Yavalath arena ... and the top players have some scary names :D

Astrobytes: yes ofc, that's how you get the achievement

eulerscheZahl: yavalath has no leagues? that explains it

struct: penguins has no leagues

Astrobytes: scary names?

eulerscheZahl: it has

struct: I cant edit Yavalath

jacek: paper soccer has no leagues

Astrobytes: Penguins does

eulerscheZahl: pushing in higher league

struct: oh it has

struct: Just my followed list is all on first league

struct: so I thought there was only 1 league

darkhorse64: Not everyone with sufficient level can modify a community multi ?

struct: I think last time someone tried, it didnt work

mzbear: astro: scary names as in people whose bots are likely to be much stronger than mine :D

eulerscheZahl: i failed to edit langtons ant

Astrobytes: It caaaan be done right? Langton's was fixed eventually iirc

eulerscheZahl: thibaud did it

Astrobytes: ah gotcha mzbear

Astrobytes: then we petition him to add a league to yavalath

Westicles: There is much glory to be had in seeking 2nd in 2048

Astrobytes: darkhorse64 can write the boss

eulerscheZahl: petition him for community contest first please

Astrobytes: still nothing?

jacek: maybe its bad

darkhorse64: Can we ask politely to thibaud to give yavalath back to struct ?

Astrobytes: I guess they're too busy with That Thing

eulerscheZahl: he wanted to message me till yesterday

Astrobytes: ?

eulerscheZahl: to let me know if a any kind of promotion is possible

eulerscheZahl: they seem to be pretty settled on 2 contests per year

Astrobytes: Meh. Well, unofficial it must be then :/

darkhorse64: Astrobytes: I am 5th in Yavalath. It'll leave not many people in the top league

struct: I can write a bot

struct: that maybe places in top 20?

IfIHadATail: unofficial contests still get a pretty good turn out no

IfIHadATail: ?

Astrobytes: was just a joke referencing your othello boss darkhorse64 ;)

struct: ~30-20

eulerscheZahl: nah, unofficial is boring

IfIHadATail: but unoffical has always just been reruns of past ones though

jacek: he could just use less time

Astrobytes: not if you set the Hype Train in motion

eulerscheZahl: just to the multiplayer arena where it gets burried

struct: No, I dont want any strong bot

struct: Not even with less time

jacek: i think 3-ply bot that just avoid loses would be good filter

darkhorse64: ^

Astrobytes: sounds fair

eulerscheZahl: ↑

Default avatar.png ArianPunk: Guys, when I solve a puzzle, I see a list other players' solutions. Is this list arbitrarily wrapped or are the solutions benchmark-ed?

struct: ill just make 61 ply book

eulerscheZahl: ArianPunk for the ordering?

ToshiTuringMachine: ArianPunk they are sorted for upvotes

Default avatar.png ArianPunk: yes

Default avatar.png ArianPunk: ohhh

eulerscheZahl: community upvotes, then date of submit

Default avatar.png ArianPunk: Got it

struct: Still should take me a while to do a bot for Yavalath

struct: Still have some work to do on STC

eulerscheZahl: planned completion: 2026

struct: :D

mzbear: ... only one testcase in futoshiki solver left unsolved...

jacek: the suspence

Default avatar.png Maritto: today i run into 2 problems where i got 100% completion even tho the unit tests where giving only 70% completion.

Default avatar.png Maritto: *were

Default avatar.png Maritto: does this usually happen to anyone else ?

jacek: test cases and validation cases are not always the same

jacek: so you dont hardcode solutions

mzbear: sometimes validation tests are a bit easier. sometimes they're a lot easier

Default avatar.png Maritto: in one of the cases the unit test inside of the clash was just bad. and the expected answer made no sense.

mzbear: ... and in case of futoshiki solver, it seems one validator test case is more difficult

Default avatar.png Maritto: oh, im into the 15 min problems

Default avatar.png Maritto: i checke d the futoshiki one but would take me longer than that

Default avatar.png Maritto: x

Default avatar.png Maritto: xD

MSmits: struct if you need help with yavalath we'll help you. Top 20 possible for sure

jacek: use MSmits bot as boss

eulerscheZahl: without book and less sim time

struct: Thanks

MSmits: that would work i guess

MSmits: do you want to go mcts or minimax for yavalath?

MSmits: either works

eulerscheZahl: nothing deterministic. would to easy to beat the boss that way

MSmits: unless it's deterministically bad

eulerscheZahl: minimax with a small random value in eval

MSmits: i think minimax is easier

struct: I might try minimax

MSmits: plain mcts doesnt work

MSmits: you need a heavy rollout

MSmits: it has some good ideas for eval

jacek: hm?

eulerscheZahl: and boss isn't supposed to consume much CPU time

jacek: i have rather plain MCTS, well aside for 1-ply win/loss check

MSmits: like check all possible 4 in a row patterns

MSmits: yeah win loss check works is the minimum

MSmits: but i am sure you have more dont you?

MSmits: oh, i do seem to remember you made a pretty extensive opening book here

MSmits: that could offset having a relatively simple rollout

jacek: eeyup

MSmits: I check for traps as well

jacek: yeah, anime taught me that too

MSmits: missing that reference

jacek: maybe its good

MSmits: :confused:

struct: I want to try top 10 on STC

struct: So it might take a while

struct: unitl i go for yavalath

MSmits: i kinda want to try more breakthrough


MSmits: I like the game a lot. Sucks when you 're not good at a game you like :)

MSmits: aha

Astrobytes: :astonished:

MSmits: that jacek, always teaching us things

Astrobytes: +to avoid

jacek: MSmits already avoid traps

Astrobytes: :smirk:

MSmits: not this kind of trap obviously

MSmits: but I am forewarned

MSmits: thanks

jacek: another approach at yavalath, i have more experience this time. 2-ply minimax vs 10ms mcts bot

jacek: maybe jacekmax will be feasible this time

MSmits: yavalath is a very different beast from most games though

MSmits: it has an early and late game. you might need a completely different bot for either

MSmits: there's always a point where it becomes impossible to force a trap anywhere because there isnt enough room left on the board

MSmits: then you win if you managed to fill the board more efficiently

MSmits: this happens around halfway through the game or so

MSmits: mcts does a great job at filling efficiently, because the random rollout probes this feature well

MSmits: minimax is better at finding early traps

jacek: only few games get past 30 moves, let alone fill the board

MSmits: but if an opening book makes sure you dont fall into any traps, the only games you can still lose are the longer games

MSmits: so games I lose are usually long ones

MSmits: but you're right in general, the trap thing prevents long games mostly

MSmits: which is also why there are so few draws

jacek: unless you prove game is a draw

jacek: we're counting on you

MSmits: I proved only 2 out of 9 starting hexes

MSmits: out of the other 7, 2 are obviously bad for p1 and 5 are pretty balanced

struct: you proven that 2 are win?

MSmits: yeah center 7 squares, but thats 2 moves

MSmits: center and the 6 around them that are symmetrically identical

MSmits: swap rule prevents it though

MSmits: you just give away the win

struct: yeah, gomoku might be interesting too

struct: with the swap2 rule

MSmits: center square is wayyyy easier to prove btw

MSmits: hex i mean

MSmits: the other 6 take maybe between 100k and a million games depending on how good your solver is

struct: damn

struct: thats a lot of games

MSmits: a few days if you havent done it before

MSmits: i started over a few times

MSmits: then i knew which moves to pick

MSmits: can do it in an hour or two then

MSmits: btw, if you're goal is just to solve these moves, you can also just minimax it

MSmits: that will be much much faster

MSmits: I think dafish can do it in an hour

MSmits: but i did it inside of a meta mcts, which is not particularly efficient


Astrobytes: Great.

MSmits: I sense British sarcasm

Default avatar.png awnion: I sense British

Astrobytes: Your sarc-y sense is tingling MSmits.

MSmits: it is!

jacek: i sense notEu member

Astrobytes: Scottish is not British in my view. But that's my opinion.

Default avatar.png awnion: look closely

MSmits: but they may still have British sarcasm

MSmits: I have German hair

Astrobytes: It's just sarcasm tbh.

Astrobytes: What accent does it have?

MSmits: I guess so

MSmits: it's mostly just not there

MSmits: so i cant talk to it

Astrobytes: In what way is your hair German though

MSmits: mmh I always imagine them as bald

Astrobytes: lol, what?

MSmits: it's not accurate ofc

MSmits: it's imagination

jacek: euler hair?

Astrobytes: Almost every German I've met has a full head of hair

MSmits: mmh

jacek: i thought you meant gray hair

MSmits: which country is full of bald people then

jacek: AutomatonNN whats german hair?

AutomatonNN: who knows why my bot does not know what to do

jacek: tibet?

MSmits: I have tibetan hair then

Astrobytes: England? Well, not entirely I guess to be fair to them.

MSmits: is it erosion? From the rain?

Astrobytes: The beer and lack of brain cells.

MSmits: ah

Astrobytes: (that's just a joke before an Englishman jumps in)

Astrobytes: Y'know, the fat bald, drunk English guy stereotype

MSmits: so English self-deprecate but don't suffer insults?

Astrobytes: The ones who won't suffer insults are incapable of self-deprecation

MSmits: aha

MSmits: so you're saying not all English are the same, noted

Astrobytes: :thinking:

Astrobytes: :D

jacek: so far so good. yellow uses symmetries in training

Astrobytes: Nah, English people are fine, I lived in England over half my life so they must've been doing something right

MSmits: oh, this is a neural network then?

jacek: n-tuple

Astrobytes: for which game?

jacek: Y

MSmits: ahh

Astrobytes: nice

jacek: nearly 12x more posiitons

Astrobytes: I guess n-tuples fits the bill for yavalath

MSmits: yeah it does. I guess my minimax used them

Astrobytes: surprised you didn't do it sooner jacek

MSmits: I was 8th ranked with it

Astrobytes: ah right, you had patterns encoded then

MSmits: yeah all 4 in a row patterns

jacek: i did, but apparently i need something more than TD learning

jacek: as in, more plies than one ahead

Default avatar.png Guillermo.: how do you play a clash created by yourself?

Astrobytes: that would figure for this game tbh, what with the traps and all

jacek: you contributed clash?

Astrobytes: Guillermo.: if you mean to choose it in a clash, you can't

Default avatar.png Guillermo.: So I made a private one and I cannot play it

Default avatar.png Guillermo.: I cannot host a private game with the one I made?

jacek: huh

Astrobytes: No, it's supposed to be random.

Astrobytes: Sorry :shrug:

jacek: well my n-tuple is all possible row of 4. won state is always 4-in-row and two 3-in-row. in next game it would pick up that 3-in-row because it had nice score

MSmits: ohh

MSmits: thats annoying

mzbear: eh, i had a bug in my futoshiki solver. that's why it failed the one validator, it timed out. fixed now, and solves annoying test cases in 0.5ms

mzbear: but when i look at other people's solutions, i cant help to think that i seem to have overengineered mine

MSmits: reminds me of when my bot would prefer hexes on the edge of the board, to minimize losses in the random rollout from 3 in a row

jacek: mzbear maybe they use... the search

mzbear: what, i can upvote my own solutions

mzbear: accidentally hit the button

MSmits: jacek how do you solve the problem of having to pick a starting move for yavalath

MSmits: you need to take into account swap ruke

MSmits: rule

MSmits: and you need to train against other starting moves

MSmits: I would guess you train for each start you'll steal and the one you pick yourself as p1

jacek: i pick random 1st move

MSmits: mmh ok

MSmits: 1 out of 9 or 1 out of 61?

MSmits: oh right, you added symmetry so i assume 9

jacek: 1 / 9

MSmits: kk

jacek: otherwise technically some moves are more frequent than others

MSmits: yeah, that might not even be bad

MSmits: since center 7 squares *should* be rare

mzbear: the pastebin here doesn't let me paste code, says invalid paste id when i try it in a private channel

jacek: sometimes its broken


MSmits: not sure if it works in private channels

mzbear: just wanted to show eulerscheZahl what i used the bitfield thingie i asked for :D

MSmits: he;s sleeping

Astrobytes: Yep. Ol' Gramps Euler has been asleep for some time now

mzbear: ohwell

Astrobytes: link him with it tomorrow

mzbear: oh dear, yavalath looks harsh

MSmits: because of the hex board?

jacek: try that without search

mzbear: the hex board and the rules

mzbear: yeah, i dont think this is going to work with heuristics of any kind

MSmits: there's some

MSmits: check for wins, check for traps etc.

MSmits: but to use a heuristic to make a plan consisting of multiple parts, seems impossible yeah

MSmits: board games arent great for simple heuristics usually

MSmits: if you like heuristics, do code a la mode

MSmits: its fun

struct: one advantage that Yavalath has is that easy for human to see if its winning

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: othello and uttt are much worse that way

MSmits: oware too

MSmits: well in oware you got your seed score, but its hard to see whats gonna happen on the board

jacek: for othello, even pros can do mistakes when doing move

jacek: as in legality

MSmits: wow really?

jacek: rarely but they can forget to flip some stones

MSmits: I saw a YT earlier where magnus carlsen accidentally gave up his queen in a blitz game :P

mzbear: code a la mode ... only 4 people in silver league, 148 in legend out of 874 ... hmmmmm

Astrobytes: it's tough to keep track, ever played it? As a human I mean

MSmits: i havent, but seen plenty of games

MSmits: between pros even

MSmits: dbdrs bot, jaceks bot etc.

jacek: magnus blundered in tactics but didnt make illegal move

MSmits: true

struct: Well online its hard to make an illegal move on chess

jacek: though i think there was one game when in check he moved other piece and opponent and refereee didnt notice

struct: if not impossible

MSmits: funny

MSmits: hey any of you play chess occasionally?

MSmits: I've been playing it sometimes lately

Astrobytes: not for a wee while tbh


struct: I played a bit, but im not very good

MSmits: whats you're rating at, if you know?

MSmits: it's all relative

struct: I think it was 1200-1300 in chesscom

struct: on rapid

MSmits: same as me then, also rapid

MSmits: I do 30 min matches

struct: I do 10

struct: or 15

MSmits: but so far i played only 16 games

MSmits: and none in the 30 years before that

MSmits: i was pretty good as a kid though

Astrobytes: +1

MSmits: 10-15 min is too quick for me

MSmits: i almost run out of time already with 30

Astrobytes: Used to play clubs and my grandad organised chess conferences here in my town

MSmits: ah sounds fun

Astrobytes: I kinda stopped after my mid-late teens

MSmits: i only stopped because i went from primary school to high school

MSmits: on my primary school we played chess alll the time

MSmits: it's what they did for kids that got their week's work done

Astrobytes: that's cool, half the kids in my class had never even heard of it

MSmits: I was usually done by tuesday

MSmits: if i had back then i doubt i ever would have stopped

Astrobytes: Yeah I was like that in primary. Highschool I'd usually do it in the morning it was due or the class before :P

Astrobytes: *homework that is

Astrobytes: I see you said week's work

MSmits: ahh ok

MSmits: yeah we had a week thingy

MSmits: when that was done they had to think of something else

MSmits: I remember they also gave me little booklet thingies

Astrobytes: Yeah, similar-ish here

MSmits: with stupid assignments

MSmits: I remember one was basically sex education

MSmits: so they didnt even realize they gave me that

Astrobytes: lmao

MSmits: I was like, wth

MSmits: next time i'll work slower

Astrobytes: Well... you *hope* they didn't realise they gave you that

MSmits: right, that

MSmits: well it was basically stack

MSmits: to keep me busy

Astrobytes: yeah, had the same with reading. Could churn through books in no time so used to get a load to get through

MSmits: my problem was that I didn't like all that many things

MSmits: I preferred math problems and such

MSmits: but most of that stuff was language/poetry/essays etc.

Astrobytes: Same with maths puzzles, I used to do them relenlessly

Astrobytes: *relentlessly

MSmits: yeah

struct: Time to finish Yavalath saga and release Yavalanchor and Yavalax

MSmits: I didnt really know i could just ask for specific stuff

Astrobytes: Primary and early highschool I used to be really hot on maths, competitions and stuff. Until I got The Bad Teacher

MSmits: probably if i had said, yo gimme math stuff, they would have

Astrobytes: yeah, you don't realise these things at the time though

MSmits: right

MSmits: in primary school i had no competition basically

MSmits: but high school i did plenty

MSmits: but it was so stressful, i was just happy to get home

Astrobytes: They wanted to skip me ahead a couple of years but there was no provision to do so in the educational system at the time

MSmits: well it's never a complete solution anyway

MSmits: you get problems socializing

Astrobytes: Only people with a lot of money can do that kinda thing anyway.

Astrobytes: And yeah, exactly what I was about to say

MSmits: we had a 10 year old in between 14 year olds at work, some years ago

Astrobytes: I had a lot of fun without too much pressure

Astrobytes: how did that go?

MSmits: i mean, he wasnt just 10, he was obviously also very weird for a 10 year okd

MSmits: otherwise he wouldnt be there

Astrobytes: yeah ofc

MSmits: basically whenever one of the students did something wrong or even got a question wrong

MSmits: he would tell on them or ridicule them

MSmits: think sheldon in BB theory

Astrobytes: yeah, I get it

MSmits: so one day they kicked him naked out of the gym dressing room and he had to switch class, its kinda sad

Astrobytes: He didn't have the social skills to realize that he was being a dick

MSmits: in the end he was ok, but took a while

MSmits: yeah he was both too young and handicapped in that regard

Astrobytes: It's a double edged sword isn't it. I think the only thing you can do is nurture the talent as much as you can

MSmits: yeah

Astrobytes: whether it's academic, sporty, whatever

MSmits: funny thing is, there were two other students from the same family, that were also 3-4 yrs ahead

MSmits: one was 4th year university at 18

MSmits: genetics i suppose

Astrobytes: And pushy parents most likely

MSmits: that too

MSmits: it helps to a degree, but it makes me sad to see parents push a student that doesnt have strong talents

MSmits: it gets stressful and ruins your childhood

Astrobytes: It happens so much. They need to encourage and nurture whatever the kid *is* good at - there's always something

Astrobytes: Not everyone is academically-minded

MSmits: yeah, and often if the parents apply enough pressure, they can convince a school to let them try at a higher level

MSmits: which can cause a lot of failure and self esteem problems

Astrobytes: So a bit of academic material in the context of something practical is wayyyy more beneficial

Astrobytes: Yes, 100%

MSmits: i dont know how it is in the UK, but here you can fail a year

MSmits: and you have to redo the entire yhear

MSmits: never happened to me, but i bet it feels really crappy

Astrobytes: yeah, you can do that in highschool and certain years of primary iirc

MSmits: in the level i teach about 30-50% of students lose a year at some point in their high school career

MSmits: usually only 1

Astrobytes: we had a guy who was held back 2 years - he was only dyslexic, but there was no support. He disappeared from school around 14 and went to work in his parents hotel

Astrobytes: But that was back then

MSmits: that sucks :(

Astrobytes: 30-50% ? Seems pretty high

MSmits: yeah but it's out of 6 years

MSmits: its a long high school

MSmits: so instead of 6, some of them take 7

struct: Same thing here

struct: % checks out

MSmits: the lower levels have a lot less of this

MSmits: only about 10% there

struct: I found perfect game

struct: re curse will love it

struct: "Maphex is a derivative of the masterpiece HEX (Piet Hein 1940) where your opponent's move determines which sub-board you can play on (mechanism from Ultimate Tic-Tac-Toe)."

MSmits: oh

MSmits: haha

MSmits: 3x3 hex?

Astrobytes: lol

struct: 3x3 sub-boards

MSmits: i am trying to imagine the 3x3 shape

struct: 9x9


struct: But they say 16x16 is more "balanced"

MSmits: is there any difference with uttt?

struct: yes

MSmits: ahh yes

struct: you need to connect your sides

struct: like a bridge

MSmits: 1 missing diagonal also

Astrobytes: (wrt previous topic we have 6 years in Scottish highschool too btw)

MSmits: we have 4-4-4-5-6

struct: here is 1-4 grade, 5-6th, 7-12th

Astrobytes: surprised no-one ported hex already

MSmits: highest levels are longer

struct: or its 5-9, 10-12

struct: cant recall

Astrobytes: 6th year here is like university preparation

Astrobytes: well, 6th year studies

struct: my last year was php

struct: :'(

MSmits: ohh you dont win miniboards in maphex?

Astrobytes: well, that was in my time, I don't know what it is now

struct: no MSmits

struct: you place pieces and need to build a bridge

MSmits: got it

struct: See the red and blue corners in the pic?

MSmits: yea i understand now

MSmits: this is a more complex game I think

Astrobytes: you never did original hex?

MSmits: i didnt

struct: Yeah its inspired by hex

Astrobytes: I think these simpler games should be ported also

Astrobytes: For people to try stuff on

MSmits: hmm

MSmits: there should be some interest to a leaderboard though

Astrobytes: Hex I mean, not maphex

MSmits: if its solvable its no good

Astrobytes: Practice section would be nice

MSmits: yeah it would

struct: yeah I was joking about Maphex

Astrobytes: (other than the puzzle section I mean)

MSmits: well its not a bad choice struct, i think there's better out there but still

struct: I want games that are easy to see whats happening

MSmits: gomoku has that

Astrobytes: hex isn't solved is it?

struct: it is until certain size

Astrobytes: or weakly solved for some board size or something

Astrobytes: well, big hex it is then

MSmits: 10x10 is solved

MSmits: 11x11 is not

Astrobytes: more or less the same objective as twixt, just a different way of playing

MSmits: twixt is so weird

Astrobytes: get to the other side

MSmits: it seems to me to be the worst game for a computer vs a human

MSmits: humans can play it easily

Astrobytes: I get ruined everytime I play a decent bot

MSmits: in twixt?

Astrobytes: yeah

MSmits: hmm then i just havent figured out how to code one

jacek: yellow - symmetries is good. green is against 100ms mcts instead of 10ms

Astrobytes: I meant as a human

jacek: why havent i tried it sooner

Astrobytes: impressive

MSmits: it;s weird that it would help so much

MSmits: it's only a factor of 12

MSmits: thats less than a ply

jacek: more data, and more balanced weights

MSmits: then again that calculation time is a factor of 10

jacek: and hex is solved ultra weakly - its been proven 1st player can always win but there is no strategy to that

MSmits: I'm looking forward to trying your board on the leaerboard

MSmits: your last version gave me some new interesting lines of play

MSmits: from the 3 2 start

MSmits: your bot i mean

jacek: its still fixed plies. i have some ideas how to make it more fast with n-tuples

MSmits: cool

MSmits: yavalath is the game i enjoy the most to search with meta mcts, because I really understand what is happening

MSmits: othello is a mystery

struct: I dont even know why I ported Yavalath

MSmits: cuz you are a stable genius

struct: I guess I wanted to try SDK and game looked simple enough

MSmits: I might look at your code

MSmits: I have to port it to unity

struct: No, there are better examples

MSmits: oh?

jacek: see what you have done. people spend time and $$$ to do the computation

struct: Yavalath code is a mess

struct: but you can check it sure

struct: its on github

MSmits: it's not wasted $$$, it's pretty cold here in my attic

Astrobytes: port hex, after Amazons

MSmits: I like to get heated by Yavajoules

Astrobytes: Lavajoules

struct: Ill search papers about Amazons

MSmits: oh right, must not forget the volcano

struct: To see if add something new

Astrobytes: You had a prototype?

struct: I have yes

Astrobytes: I don't think anything new is required for amazons

struct: I guess the voronoi part

struct: is something not used on a lot of games


Astrobytes: see, Smits will love it

struct: Maybe voronoi is not used

MSmits: maybe I can place more solar cells on my roof and power a threadripper

struct: Threadripper might be overkill

Astrobytes: well, it is a territory control game

Astrobytes: lol

struct: But if you want to warm the house, you might want to go intel

MSmits: i could put a tube to my neighbors house and give him some free heat

struct: Otherwise go AMD :)

MSmits: I got intel

struct: new ryzens seem good

MSmits: didnt re curse buy one?

Astrobytes: Intels inside, AMDs outside

struct: He wants one I think

struct: But cant find it

MSmits: ah

Astrobytes: the ryzens are looking ridiculous

MSmits: i am not good enough of a coder to properly use it

MSmits: i;d just waste tons of power

Astrobytes: nah, you'd be able to get something out of it man

MSmits: let me mess around on 1 core, thats safer

struct: Well if you can use 2 then you can use 12

MSmits: i mean sometimes i find a bug after 1 week of running

AntiSquid: ya i got myself a ryzen from 2k series though

MSmits: what do you do with it/

AntiSquid: before 3k was announced, but no regrets considering all the drama surrounding its release

Astrobytes: you'd find it in less time with multi-core msmits

AntiSquid: some ML stuff for fun

MSmits: mmh doubt it, it's not my brain thats multithreaded

AntiSquid: picked it best on what others recommended / use

Astrobytes: Well, it is

struct: 16 cores 32 threads

struct: too much

Astrobytes: There is no Too Much

MSmits: i wonder if for some applications a good GPU will be faster than those 16 cores

Astrobytes: Think of the combination

MSmits: its not that easy to combine them, i tried it once

struct: for rendering mostly

AntiSquid: my pc is similar to this guy's, i picked and built mine before this video came out though :P

MSmits: i meant for computation

struct: Maybe for calculations

struct: idk

Astrobytes: Well you delegate responsibilities to the appropriate components no?

MSmits: I did some terrain generation on cpu and gpu. Same algorithm to generate a chunk

MSmits: gpu did it 20x faster

AntiSquid: it's more a matter of having both for both scenarios whenever you need them

MSmits: but there was a delay in transfering the data

MSmits: bit annoying

AntiSquid: you can cheap out on one thing but then might regret later or not be able to upgrade something if you want to

MSmits: makes sense

Astrobytes: always the way with any hardware

struct: One thing good on Amazons

struct: Is that you need to choose good moves

struct: Search space is massive

Astrobytes: yes, I picked it for a reason. It's in many, many papers. I think it'll be interesting on CG

Astrobytes: Also a fun game btw

Astrobytes: (as a human)

AntiSquid: you're doing a game astro?

Astrobytes: no, it's one I suggested to struct ages ago

Astrobytes: But I wanted to port Morpion Solitaire when I have time

Astrobytes: (not a card game)

Astrobytes: aka Join Five

AntiSquid: i have some fancy game in mind ! (not saying it to brag) just no time and worried about how people might react ... very fussy crowd

Astrobytes: well, when you have the time just throw it out there

Astrobytes: I mean, if the idea works it works, if it doesn't it doesn't right

Astrobytes: If it's got fog tho' I KEEEEL YOU

AntiSquid: :thinking:

MSmits: now I am imagining you as a skeletal puppet Astrobytes

struct: jrke submit a contribution

struct: but no statement yet

AntiSquid: fencing game looks nice

Astrobytes: at least you got it MSmits

Astrobytes: Not played the fencing one since the update(s)

struct: Whats fencing game?

Astrobytes: yeah I saw that struct

Astrobytes: we might need to help him a bit with the english for the statement, he speaks well but will need some assistance

Astrobytes: it's somewhere in the contribs struct, Fencing Championships or smth

MSmits: gonna get some sleep gn!

struct: gn

Astrobytes: gn :)

struct: I go too, gn

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: oh theres a chat nice

Astrobytes: gn struct

Astrobytes: yes there is a chat

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: im new to this site and it just unlocked for me i think

Astrobytes: Yeah, I think it unlocks at level 3, after you solve 1 or 2 puzzles

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: i just did the easy binary search one and then

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: yay

LastRick: Welcome to Codingame

Astrobytes: cool, welcome to CG

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: thanks!

Astrobytes: oh hey LastRick

LastRick: Howdy

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: from what ive seen this site is mostly just math algos right? like binary search, gaussian elimination

Astrobytes: noooo

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: ope

Astrobytes: :)

Astrobytes: there's a lot of different problems

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: any fun recs?

Astrobytes: Requiring many different algorithmic approaches, some very mathematical puzzles indeed.

Astrobytes: There are multiplayer bot programming games, optimisation games, code golf games... and clashes too

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: oh is golfing scored per language or just bytes of code

Astrobytes: DEpends what you like/what you're interested in, recommendations are quite subjective

Astrobytes: codegolf-wise your best score will obviously be your least chars solution, but you get points for golfing in other langs too

LastRick: And recommendations are subject to change

Astrobytes: ^

LastRick: when i first got here, all i wanted to do was puzzles, couldn't stop

LastRick: after that fall contest, i got hooked on Compete for a while

Astrobytes: Now?

Astrobytes: Oh SR

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: what are clashes

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: also whats sr

Astrobytes: 15-minute timed sessions when you try to solve a problem via opponents either faster than them, with less chars than them or reverse-engineer it faster than them

Astrobytes: The problems vary in quality

LastRick: ^ boy do they

Astrobytes: Clash isn't my thing, but some of the stuff I've seen recently...

Astrobytes: Anyway, do check out all parts of the site, not just the puzzles!

Astrobytes: How's your GA coming along LastRick?

LastRick: I enjoy clashes as a change of pace from the drudgery of a puzzle or the complexity of a Compete. But yeah lately oof

LastRick: I want to finish Texas Hold Em puzzle (medium) tonight and then I will go back to Search Race. Illedan was so nice to post some generic GA code last night and I was going to use it as a starting point

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: whats ga

LastRick: Genetic Algorithm

Astrobytes: Yes I saw that. I think you'll have fun with it.

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: oh cool

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: are the problem difficulties accurate bc the medium one i did was like basic binary searching

LastRick: not always

Astrobytes: You can start with just pure random, then introduce mutation. Then after create populations with crossovers

LastRick: ok

Astrobytes: No, unfortunately the difficulties can be variable

Astrobytes: Which puzzle did you do?

LastRick: When I went through all the Easy puzzles, I found probably a dozen that should have been shifted up. Likewise, I've seen a few Hards that are not very difficult at all.

Astrobytes: Yeah. Especially when they merged community with official puzzles

Astrobytes: Though there are a few official which are easier than their category too

Astrobytes: Again, that's subjective. Depends on your experience of whatever the problem is

LastRick: I have said for a while, the problem is they haven' done a good job codifying what determines a puzzle's difficulty level. They leave to the user base, which is the worst group to leave it to. :)

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: ok i have a question about search race

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: "The car's facing vector is multiplied by the given thrust value. The result is added to the current speed vector." is the facing vector a unit vector

Astrobytes: Yes, that's true to an extent LastRick, doesn't account for the official ones though.

Astrobytes: well, regarding the facing vector: think that one through for a second

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: i mean it makes sense for it to be but do you know lol

Astrobytes: It's a direction vector so...

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: ok cool then yes facing vector just isnt a super common phrase in my experience so i wanted to theck

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: *check

Astrobytes: ah cool, yeah sometimes you have to extrapolate from the description, fair play

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: ah makes sense

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: also is there a vim mode

Astrobytes: yes there is

Astrobytes: settings on the left of the IDE

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: ok sweet thank you

Astrobytes: no worries

Astrobytes: Anyway, late here, I need to sleep. Goodnight all. LastRick, I hope chat is OK in the next few hours ;)

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: gn

LastRick: night

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: how do i watch my test cases play out in the video thing

Rock-Lee: is the site slow for you guys?

Rock-Lee: i cant test my code

Jasperr: It basically happens every night around this time

LastRick: Oh yeah its that time of night

LastRick: Flaming: What game are you playing?

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: search race

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: rn im just working out some of the kinematics but i have some ideas

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: weird how positive heading is clockwise

Rock-Lee: well, time to logout

LastRick: Yeah, I think that is common to the puzzles here at CG

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: it makes some sense because it works well with top left origin but its still wacky

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: the math is the same as normal math if you pretend its mirrored which is nice ig

LastRick: On search race, you are talking about the races after you hit submit?

elderlybeginner: servers seems to be slow now, am I right?

LastRick: always this time of night (day)

LastRick: it is when they update the rankings I believe

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: lol i had a small dereferencing bug i figured out the video thing

LastRick: ok

Jasperr: this is CG's way of telling Europeans its time to get to bed ;)

LastRick: yeah, convenient for europe, they should be sleeping. But screw the Americas! :)

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: aah this discrete calc is so weird

Default avatar.png TheFlamingSkater_651d: its like the difference quotient but its not a limit h is just 1

Default avatar.png katiestapleton: it will always be weird. Happy I have that class done

LastRick: Texas Holdem finally done. That was something. Probably took only 15 minutes to code if someone has a specific winning hand and 5 hours to format the output.

Noo8: hi coders

Default avatar.png andrecab: hi

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: hello

Default avatar.png Jorropo: hi

ayoubhs: hello


Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: If u inviting or shareing result

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: there is another channel for this

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: #clash

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: do it on this

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: not in world chat

Default avatar.png Robin_Hood: okk