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Westicles: Well, that worked

Tomi101: how do i get good at programming?

BatGifGuy: same here

hiljusti: determination, consistency, time

mzbear: practice makes perfect


TitouanT: is undo's vim mode broken for you guys too or is this just me

TitouanT: vim mode's undo ? I don't know the order ^^

jacek: happy Caturday

hiljusti: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

hiljusti: cats get 52 days in a year and dogs 0

Uljahn: every day is Automaton2000day

Automaton2000: i thought you meant that

YodaMaster123: Happy Caturday

PatrickMcGinnisII: Editor is bugged, *sigh*

Uljahn: anyone experiencing bugs in editor too? need more evidences for a bug report

Default avatar.png Drama.Queen: Hi fuckers

eulerscheZahl: kick or ban :thinking:

eulerscheZahl: let's be nice this time

Astrobytes: So dramatic.

AntiSquid: lucky dodge Drama.Queen

Default avatar.png WelloHorld: Hi mods.

Default avatar.png WelloHorld: :smile:

AntiSquid: same guy 100%

eulerscheZahl: be patient squiddy

eulerscheZahl: let's give the benefit of a doubt

Astrobytes: Wello was around yesterday

Westicles: I get the feeling I would fit in just fine in India

eulerscheZahl: +45k XP :smirk:

Westicles: That wasn't my fault. I didn't know you could do that until #FR told me yesterday

eulerscheZahl: so you tested it?

darkhorse64: It's not because you can do something stupid that you have to do it

AntiSquid: eh do what?

Astrobytes: sigh


AntiSquid: oh ...

darkhorse64: upvote your published solutions

AntiSquid: :/

Westicles: unpublished

eulerscheZahl: oh, you can upvote unpublished solutions?

AntiSquid: time to beat unnamed player?

Westicles: yep. You can get infinite XP easily. I think that's what that one guy does

AntiSquid: never thought wash up liquid would give me so much trouble btw

eulerscheZahl: i think the same. the self-upvote is known for years

Astrobytes: still struggling squiddy?

AntiSquid: yes

AntiSquid: i am about to give up .

eulerscheZahl: what story did I miss?

AntiSquid: too much Q_Q emotions

AntiSquid: one sec euler


Default avatar.png BalintSupper: All my testcases went fine and when submitting, the tower test case failed :D

AntiSquid: wait, this is the wash up liquid version

eulerscheZahl: oh, only 3 pounds, I should order it


Astrobytes: :o

eulerscheZahl: i feel insulted

AntiSquid: that was random attack :joy:

Default avatar.png WelloHorld: "I get the feeling I would fit in just fine in India", where did this come from?

eulerscheZahl: long story, has absolutely nothing to do with you


Westicles: I hope champcoder didn't get scared off. I never even heard of that guy.

eulerscheZahl: saw him 1 or 2 times on the chat. but too rarely to have an opinion about that user

Westicles: He was well spoken after the event

Default avatar.png WelloHorld: The forum page seems so similar to sublime text forum page and the codechef discuss page.

eulerscheZahl: it's discourse


Default avatar.png WelloHorld: Wow thanks never heard of that!

dbdr: did we talk about Westicles' XP?

eulerscheZahl: not for long

Default avatar.png WelloHorld: I apologize me for that that day for being abusive! :)

eulerscheZahl: self-upvote of unpublished solutions

dbdr: scripted?

eulerscheZahl: would you do that by hand?

dbdr: I wouldn't

Westicles: just a little autoit script

eulerscheZahl: see

darkhorse64: Let's call things by their real name: sabotaging CG.

Westicles: Just seems like a bug that needs fixed

Westicles: I'll be happy to go right back down where I was

Westicles: Then you can smirk and point at all the other guys who go down a little too :)\

darkhorse64: You cannot blame others for what you are doing. This is a very lame attempt to avoid your responsabilities

Westicles: People like to get angry about just about everything.

Westicles: It is tedious

darkhorse64: Another lame excuse

AntiSquid: kinda irrelevant, nothing to gain from extra level anyway

Uljahn: at least you can have some fun exposing bugs by taking them to extreme instead of making a proper bug report

Westicles: It really needs to be fixed. I just upvoting existing ones, you can add as many copies of the same solution you want

Westicles: I think some of the people complaining loudest are ones who do this as well.

AntiSquid: next we have a bug bounty contest on CG :P

Westicles: Lots of loud complainers on #FR :)

darkhorse64: Unsupported "Trump-like" claims

AntiSquid: the danger of this bug has been dispooted

AntiSquid: and deboonked

Astrobytes: Make a bug report Westicles

AntiSquid: ^

Astrobytes: darkhorse64: Is Donald's Law the new Godwin's Law? :)

darkhorse64: I just said that, in reference to US elections, unsupported claims are not valid arguments

Westicles: Oh please. You guys are all arguing that I am rockstar over there

AntiSquid: that's a different story, the hunter biden laptop was dispooted for a long time

Astrobytes: No, I get your point. It's just amusing how Trump seems to have replaced Hitler in online discussions :D

AntiSquid: despite having called troops back home

Westicles: bug reported

Astrobytes: Squiddy, your missing the point. I'm not being political It was just an amusing observation

Astrobytes: thanks Westicles

AntiSquid: not directed at you .

AntiSquid: i get too many orange man bad vibes from news media when he doesn't go along with whatever the agenda is ... like wtf is this shit ? calling bombing beautyful

Uljahn: that's because bombing brings democracy

Astrobytes: Yes. Bombs contain pure democracy, that's how you spread it.

Astrobytes: *'Western' bombs

Astrobytes: All the other ones contain Communism and/or Muslamic Ray Guns

Astrobytes: Muslamic Ray Guns:

AntiSquid: i mean this: people see only one side of the issue

AntiSquid: like biden is perfectly fine . lol

Levvis: You guys were gonna ban me for asking how to print yesterday but now you're talking about bombs?

AntiSquid: don't think anyone wanted to ban you

AntiSquid: anyways what are you up to?

jacek: how to print bombs?

darkhorse64: print("BOMB 0 0") to play Hypersonic

AntiSquid: oh i thought he meant: import 3Dprinter

mzbear: Levvis: if I recall correctly, you were reprimanded for telling someone to eat your shorts, not for asking a programming question. Fighting is a problem, and even if someone else offends you, don't be part of the problem.

Levvis: can one not joke

mzbear: be the bigger man. if you get defensive, it only creates more drama and nobody likes that

Levvis: I know the guy I said it to

mzbear: yes, and he was rude first, but nobody else here cares to watch it go on. if you want to bicker with your friends, don't do it in the world chat

Default avatar.png Maxim251: I am doing detective pickatcha ep 2

Default avatar.png Maxim251: Who finished that test?

Default avatar.png Maxim251: Is it dificult?

Levvis: mzbear how is it any more reprehensible than the political discussion that went on in the world chat earlier?

mzbear: i regret having this discussion. I've already said what i wanted to say so i'll go back to writing my bot for Blocking

Astrobytes: He appears to just want trouble mzbear, ignore him.

Levvis: not really, but ok.

Astrobytes: Move on with your life Levvis. Don't bring up your perceived slights and keep grinding that axe. Just get on with coding, chatting etc.

mzbear: good conversations are about things, not about people, but everyone still has a tendency of making everything personal

mzbear: meanwhile, my Blocking bot is already 600 lines and I'm going through a mild refactoring to make this thing cleanly support MCTS

Astrobytes: I'm rewriting my raic bot

Astrobytes: refactoring became rewriting

Astrobytes: move generation seems tough for Blocking

mzbear: i still haven't moved the development local... writing in the online editor despite it only showing roughly 25 lines at a time on this screen

Astrobytes: That's just masochistic!

mzbear: the move generation is indeed quite annoying, and i have so many unoptimized parts there too.. it currently takes roughly a millisecond to generate the moves in the worst case mid-game

mzbear: a bit masochistic maybe, the outline scrollbar is super useful

Astrobytes: Hm, don't over-optimise too early

Astrobytes: Yeah, I have that in VS so I don't miss it too much

mzbear: heh, i've gone down the premature optimization road too many times in the past

Astrobytes: Easily done. Especially on CG

mzbear: "this is definitely necessary and going to become a bottleneck, so i'll spend a day optimizing it" => the entire code gets thrown out 3 days later

Astrobytes: hahaha, exactly right

Levvis: are there bots in clash of code?

Astrobytes: yup

Astrobytes: just to fill the space when there aren't enough players

jacek: ee

Levvis: How did I not realise this before

jacek: they passed turing test


Astrobytes: Explanation there

Levvis: I've been getting beat by bots this whole time

Astrobytes: And I think they have it in their profiles too iirc

struct: At least those bots are fair

Levvis: I've had a personal vendetta for this one guy who keeps beating me and it was a bot the whole time

struct: When I quit clash it was bots submiting in under 10 secs

mzbear: :D

struct: and with golfed solutions

struct: They would store published best solutions

Levvis: how is it decided when they submit then?

struct: I guess they calculate the time based on previous times

struct: of other users

Astrobytes: they use the code and the duration from the stored player

Levvis: this is mildly embarrassing

mzbear: well, a real player once played that code, in that time... so it's still something you can aim for


Astrobytes: Bots up top

Astrobytes: Well, you didn't know until now so don't worry about it

mzbear: even though they're real submissions, it's not entirely fair ... real people, even at high skill levels, can stumble on simple problems occasionally, so you can eventually have a chance to win against someone more skilled. bots don't make such mistakes.

struct: they dont submit 100% solutions everytime

struct: I saw bot getting 0%

mzbear: but it's the bot deliberately choosing to do so... so it's not exactly satisfying to win against that

Levvis: it was satisfying before I knew they were bots at least

Astrobytes: don't be put off

Astrobytes: do you know about the #clash channel?

struct: At least in multiplayers I know everything is a bot

Astrobytes: lol

Levvis: what is that

Astrobytes: And the streamer notification up top also

Astrobytes: there's a bot that collects twitch streamers doing clashes

Astrobytes: So you can join sometimes really big clashes

Astrobytes: And you can post in there and invite people

struct: I remember joining a clash with 80 people

Levvis: Don't think I'm cut out for that just yet

struct: The result was never computed

Astrobytes: Hey, people from all levels participate in the streamed clashes. From total noob to expert

Astrobytes: I remember that struct, they fixed that issue right?

struct: idk, I never faced a clash that big again

Astrobytes: lol

Default avatar.png popupro: oh yeah, so far I'm still learning C++ and can't do most clashes of code

Default avatar.png popupro: I could never do a big clash

jacek: c++ isnt much used in clash

Astrobytes: Yeah you should be pretty comfortable in your language first

Levvis: <python

reCurse: The more you give up because of bots, the more bots are needed

reCurse: Kinda ironic

Astrobytes: Hah. Yes.

sebak: hello

Levvis: < shortest mode

mzbear: bots bothered me for another reason before i realized they were bots ... i saw people joining clashes and then leaving after a while when more people joined, and i thought they were leaving because too strong players were joining. i thought they were fishing for high win ratios :D

reCurse: Doesn't that make them more realistic then

mzbear: Maybe, I don't know. i've only played a few clashes anyway because the experience was somewhat disappointing overall

Astrobytes: Not my cup of tea either.

Levvis: I only ever play clashes

Astrobytes: Did you try the puzzles? Good training.

reCurse: I'm just playing devil's advocate

Levvis: Personally I'd prefer to do larger projects

Levvis: outiside of codingame

mzbear: I submitted one shortest code clash prematurely because I forgot it was supposed to be short, and got startled by the bell at 5 minute mark. I don't think I ever got notification how i fared in it, either

reCurse: I think clashes are bad

struct: They are

Astrobytes: Tried the bot programming games on here Levvis?

Levvis: Never done anything else that isn't clash I don't think

Default avatar.png popupro: I play clashes to just see where and what I can do, but I can clearly see when I'm just far below the level of the given clash since I'm still in 10th grade so I have to leave

Levvis: Maybe one or two puzzles

Astrobytes: I'd recommend checking them out. There's also optimisation and code golf.

mzbear: Only the puzzles and bot programming feel meaningful here. Clash/golf/optimization all feel fairly pointless

Default avatar.png popupro: yeah I know, I try to get as far as I can in the clashes

struct: Multiplayers and Puzzles are the best things of CG

Astrobytes: ^

Levvis: I feel more incentive with clash because its competitive

Default avatar.png popupro: I mean, the clashes are good for someone who's just starting out

struct: Puzzles are

Astrobytes: The bot programming is *very* competitive at times

mzbear: code golf and optimization would be more meaningful if every player could submit their own test cases that every other player had to pass

Levvis: But I mean I can play clash with friends

Levvis: Clash taught me list comprehension at least

Astrobytes: Well, when you're just getting bots in clashes you could learn some stuff from the puzzles I guess. There's a pretty broad selection.

struct: nono

reCurse: I would argue anything clash gives you is done better with puzzles, but that's obviously subjective /shrug

struct: You should do CSB

struct: use -3vx

Astrobytes: New algorithms, data structures to learn, language features

Levvis: Well I just like the clash normally only takes a few minutes to be honest

Levvis: that*

Astrobytes: Do what you wanna do, we're just making sure you don't miss out ;)

mzbear: Levvis, puzzles are kind of competitive too if you look at other people's published solutions after you've completed the puzzle. There's no referee to score the solutions though, you'll have to compare them to your solution on your own

Levvis: I suppose so

XorZy: Yes but I agree with reCurse, I think clash are more for competition than to learn, except perhaps for shortest where you can learn to know your language better

mzbear: it always annoys me (in a good way) when i see a solution that does something more clever than my own code :D

Astrobytes: Bettering oneself is also a kind of competition.

Levvis: I've never had a code-related interview but aren;t the clash problems closer to what an interview could involve?

Levvis: aren't*

Astrobytes: No. They're just supposed to be a bit of fun.

Levvis: Surely there must be some benefit

reCurse: If a job interview resembles clashes, just get up and run away.

reCurse: Thank me later

mzbear: practice always has benefits

Astrobytes: Puzzles are your best bet there. Codingame For Work sometimes uses the puzzles in interview tests

Astrobytes: lol reCurse

Levvis: But how long do the puzzles normally take?

Astrobytes: How long is a piece of string?

XorZy: It's really subjective I'd say

struct: seconds

XorZy: Depends on the puzzle and on your experience

Levvis: I just mean is it something you'll do in a day or half an hour

mzbear: there are some puzzles i've done in a few minutes, a few puzzles I spent several days on

Levvis: Ah okay

Astrobytes: Totally subjective and dependent on your experience/familiarity with the problem

mzbear: and the nintendo puzzle i couldn't even finish... I still got a few A4 sheets on my desk trying to work out the math to solve it, but i just dont have any background in crypto math so i didn't manage to reduce the complexity enough to even bruteforce the rest of the solution space :/

mzbear: i'll surely get back to that one later and solve it, damnit :)

Levvis: I asked because obviously you're not going to be in an interview for several days

Astrobytes: something something finite fields something something nintendo

mzbear: good coding interviews with puzzles don't even expect you to finish the puzzle in a reasonable time

Astrobytes: Yes, but you can improve your ability to solve problems by doing puzzles. So you'll get naturally faster.

mzbear: the interviewer is usually more interested in knowing how you think, how you approach the task, etc

Default avatar.png popupro: while doing "clash of code" I learnt how to add to a string, how to find string length, basically I just learnt how to use strings

Astrobytes: Well, you can do that with puzzles - without a time constraint.

Levvis: So how should I prepare for a university interview for computer science

Default avatar.png popupro: I know, it just gets me in more of a competitive mood which just makes me perform better

XorZy: If it works for you then go ahead, do what you like but don't forget to check out other things too, be curious

mzbear: university admission interviews? here in Finland we just do an exam type of thing, and the type of questions were very different for different universities

Astrobytes: I think that's university dependent Levvis

Levvis: Yeah probably

Astrobytes: Just make sure your maths + logic are on point in case you have some kind of aptitude test, other than that it won't be like thumbscrews and dim lighting or anything

Astrobytes: (hopefully :P )

Levvis: Hopefully

Astrobytes: Nah. You'll be fine.

mzbear: back when I got to study computer science in University of Helsinki, iirc the most programming related question was just a printout of instructions for a kind of pseudocode, and you were supposed to answer what the result of the computation was. they didn't expect any CS students to actually know anything about programming beforehand...

mzbear: be good at maths, be able to think logically, i dont think they had any oher requirements

Astrobytes: They might ask you questions related to some stuff you've learned in highschool CS (assuming you're doing/have done highschool CS) but it depends on the uni afaik

Levvis: As long as they don't ask for the pseudocode for merge sort

Astrobytes: Revise it anyway, just in case ;)

AshKetchum: I had a c++ course, in the mid term test, I was asked to swap two integers without using a third var. I thought it was a pointers question because they were a mystery to me. Turned out, it was an algebra question.

struct: What kind of uni is this where they require you to know merge sort before doing CS degree?

struct: before starting*

mzbear: no university does that for sure :D

Astrobytes: lol

Levvis: Merge sort is part of the computer science A-Level syllabus - I highly doubt they'll ask for it

mzbear: they might require math and physics skills though

Astrobytes: cool, nice to see they include that in A level

Levvis: We need to know merge, quick, bubble sorts

struct: You are lucky

struct: They asked me to do NN

Astrobytes: Nice. Well, if they don't ask you about them maybe you can humblebrag a bit :D

Levvis: NN in the interview?

struct: yes, in the interview for CS degree

Levvis: How does that work then

mzbear: i was once asked to write code on a chalkboard, with actual chalk, in a job interview

struct: I was joking

struct: I dont think you should worry too much

Astrobytes: ^

Astrobytes: Just be ready to get stuck in and work your ass off

Levvis: It's virtual anyway

IamFish: wait you guys need to pass interviews to get into college?

YodaMaster123: Not all colleges.

Levvis: It's only for certain universities

IamFish: ah

Levvis: Only for the particularly evil ones

Q12: Hi guys, only 18 hours are left to approve my contribution. I would appreciate if you can approve it before it expires. If you have any comments I would love to hear them. thanks a lot! link:

VizGhar: uf. it doesn't look like something i can solve today :) but nice puzzle

VizGhar: it kinda reminds me of "theres no spoon"

Q12: thanks :slight_smile:

Default avatar.png BaranSolmaz: hello

eulerscheZahl: when it expires, you can put it up for approval again

Q12: thanks!! didn't know :grin:

Q12: So VizGhar, you can solve it later :slight_smile:

Q12: @eulerscheZahl How do I put it to approval again?

eulerscheZahl: it's obvious when it got refused

eulerscheZahl: go to your contribution, it will just change the state from "pending" to "draft", edit it and put it back to pending

Q12: ok, thanks!

Q12: Will it save the approved I have in the contribution already?

Westicles: You can also set it to WIP then back to ready, nothing changes except it goes to 30 days

Default avatar.png Maxim251: oh my gosh, I almost finish Detective Pikaptcha EP2

Q12: Thanks!

Aayush.Curious: WOW

Default avatar.png Showya: yo wassup

struct: I have to agree with his comment

struct: But you can just add an or to check for n

Default avatar.png Maxim251: WOOOO I finished! All test cases!! Of Detective Pikaptcha EP2:heart_eyes:

Default avatar.png Maxim251:

struct: if it ends with n i mean

struct: grats

LastRick: now do episode 3 . i can't get past the problem statement on that one

struct: oh wait my solution deosnt work

Default avatar.png Maxim251: My code is so extremly long, it scares me. I dont know how I do it that it works :hugging:

mzbear: i'm working on 600+ line long bot code, in which i've recently touched ~300 lines without testing ... there's no way i wont have to debug this for hours after i'm done implementing the algorithm i'm currently working on :D

mzbear: the only downside of bot programming is that i cant shove my code at everyone's face once i get this to work

Default avatar.png Maxim251: my code have 409 lines with debugging.

Default avatar.png Maxim251: I am begginner and first time I get code so long and its worked after few touches and corections.

Default avatar.png Maxim251: I wish You the best with You r code.

mzbear: my trick to managing my code: i start by layout out only TODO comments and now code, and after that i write assert(0); to every block of code I make before i start implementing it, and only remove it once i've carefully read what i've written to be sure i wrote it correctly. this way i can take detours and never accidentally forget to finish something

mzbear: s/now code/no code/;

mzbear: and i keep the word "TODO" in every comment until i've written the entire functionality it describes

mzbear: so my source code doubles as a design document

Default avatar.png Maxim251: I do my code from head. Step by step, First time I also implemented obiects to contain information like map or hero. But ifstatements I did in main loop. Things responsible for updating map or hero I put in side classes, and only if statment for comparison two obiects I du in main. But anyway, It was so hard, espoecially that at begginning I coudlnt start code to test it, but write 80% of it and then start it to see how works first step...

Default avatar.png Maxim251: I try do todo beetwin days, to not forget where i stoped previouse days.

Default avatar.png Maxim251: But I am new and still that field is for me new. And i dont have experience how to do step by step corect code like You do.

mzbear: i cant handle keeping things in my head, i always forget important things once the project starts growing larger... aggressively asserting everything in the code is the only way i can make anything work reliably

Default avatar.png Maxim251: Thats why I am happy like monkey on tree that I get it fully working

Default avatar.png Maxim251: I start to train with struct or classes, because there I can group some important or usefull functions.

mzbear: i usually try to first get something to work before i start organizing anything. it's far too common to not completely grasp the problem until it's been solved

mzbear: every time you create a function, or define a struct, you create architecture ... and it might not adhere to a good solution

mzbear: so, first iteration of the code, i make a mess that's explicit on what it does, and easy to refactor once i have a clue about what i want to do

Default avatar.png Maxim251: maybe thats why it was so hard

mzbear: creating abstractions too early always tends to go wrong for me

Default avatar.png Maxim251: most of the time I have problems with swaped x and y in 2D arrays. Later I spand many times to figureout why I get wrong values

therealbeef: optimizing too early is usually wasted effort

mzbear: whenever i declare multidimensional arrays, i add a comment describing what each index is :)

mzbear: int form_handles[21][8][5][5] = {}; // id, form, y, x std::pair<int,int> handle_locations[21][8][5]; // id, form, (handle-1)

mzbear: things like that

mzbear: although i only tend to do it when i'm not following my own conventions ... for example, i didn't document that pair<int,int> because x,y is my default for coordinates of any kind

Default avatar.png Maxim251: For me works great. Because I imagine that map is an obiect. It have size, 2D array of some information like grid, and help functions to get some info from the map. Like center point, update point, change data in that point. That basics one, but logic I use in main function, because for me keep everything in class is still unavaible. For me classes are like containers to keep info.

Default avatar.png Maxim251: heh In that code I try use pair, but later one it make me to complicated to menage that. And I finish with x and y like You :)

mzbear: i've recently been getting into a bad habit of making everything structs instead of classes, and only using member methods for things truly inherent to the data. everything else, normal old fashioned functions

mzbear: no privates whatsoever

mzbear: it's not like encapsulation does me any good by itself, and having everything public saves me the trouble of writing accessors for the various things that i keep changing all the time

Astrobytes: yeah, CG special.

Astrobytes: using namespace std; structs not classes. Almost zero encapsulation.

Astrobytes: All foul and dirty code allowed. Smells left, right and centre.

mzbear: i still go without "using namespace std;" as much as i can. at the moment, only main() has it because i didn't want to add the std:: to all the boilerplate input reading

Astrobytes: Well, contest code at least :P

Astrobytes: I don't bother too much about the std thing on here, depends what I'm up to

mzbear: there are times when i really want to drop the std:: though... hell, earlier i had one of those arrays as std::array<std::array<std::array<std::array<int,5>,5>,8>,21> form_handles;

mzbear: that made me cry

mzbear: after briefly questioning my sanity, I just went with C style arrays

Astrobytes: I never use the std arrays on here I have to say

Astrobytes: well, very seldom

therealbeef: typing std everywhere is too baked into my coding now haha. feels weird to leave it out

Astrobytes: do whatever works best for you is what I say :)

Default avatar.png Maxim251: I need say something about std

Astrobytes: ...

Default avatar.png Maxim251: I dont know why some peoples hate STD in a fail, namespace::std was desighned to use it. If You use another library and file menaged that library, You use namespace::QTCore or whatever

Default avatar.png Maxim251: I use almost always in main because it saves me a lot of typing. And I dont mixt with other library that two namespaces will colide

Astrobytes: Yes, for sure

Default avatar.png Maxim251: Namespace is desighned that programer will have easier life.

Astrobytes: on CodinGame I just use using namespace std because I don't need to worry about any other libs

Default avatar.png Maxim251: exactly. If someone is ignorand, it always will use witjout namespace because somebody tels him so

Astrobytes: Yes, many people do such things without realising the consequences.

Default avatar.png Maxim251: I am new on coding And I am learning from 3 months now, but I already know when to use namespace and when stop it if My code don't need so many lines with standard functions.

Default avatar.png Maxim251: #Astrobytes good luck with Your code. And was so nice to talk about coding preferences.

Astrobytes: thank you Maxim251, and the same to you

Default avatar.png Maxim251: #mzbear struct and class is almost this same, but struct difference is that You are not forcet to point it what is publick and what is not. This is good to use in one file like codingames chalenges. If You write some sort of library that many other peoples will use Your talent, then class can be usefull to menage private some variables.

mzbear: enforcing the interface to data becomes a lot more relevant when there's more than one programmer, yes :)

tibithegreat: to be tehnically correct in a struct all members are by default public

tibithegreat: you can still set private members in a struct

Astrobytes: yep

Default avatar.png Maxim251: ps, struct was desighned to be used in C, that was some response for C++ classes, and because C++ have suport to C language, now we have them two with coise to us eit. :)

Default avatar.png Maxim251: sh..t Sorry for typos

Default avatar.png Maxim251: choice to use them.

mzbear: i'm contemplating whether to start writing code for experimenting with MCTS+RAVE before i even get the MCTS code written. I'll never get this done before the week is over at this pace :D

reCurse: ...what? Struct existed in C way before C++ even was a thing

Default avatar.png Maxim251: no no, I writed that was response for C++ classes.

tibithegreat: yeah and recurse says it wasn't :), C had struct before C++ even existed

tibithegreat: and C++ had to be backwards compatible with C

Default avatar.png Maxim251: Struct come up later, because C programmers dont have that, and obiect type container is very usefull.

tibithegreat: cause.. reasons

Astrobytes: Um

tibithegreat: hmm, let me check my c++ history, I think you might be wrong

reCurse: K&R C had structs

reCurse: That's in the 70s

reCurse: So no there's no way it's a response to C++

Astrobytes: ^

tibithegreat: yeah :)

reCurse: Not sure where you're getting your info from

tibithegreat: made me doubt myself for a while there

Default avatar.png Maxim251: I watched one of Youtube explanation about many types of thata and why we have so many different types containers. And this what that person said. Normally on internet is very hard to find why struct exist if class have almost this same functionality.

reCurse: Very hard?

reCurse: The only reason it exists is because C++ is a superset

reCurse: It's exactly the same except it has implicit public: instead of private:

tibithegreat: basically C had structs, and when they made C++ they decided it should be backwards compatible

reCurse: Because there's no accessibility in C

reCurse: It's not exactly hard information to find

tibithegreat: a decision that is controversial to this day

reCurse: You should unsubscribe from that channel

Astrobytes: Immediately.

Default avatar.png Maxim251: Yeah?? Why they do it if I can write at beggining that all members of clas I want have publick? Is onlu few chars to typo.

reCurse: I just told you, because of backward compatibility, it's designed to be a superset

mzbear: c++ was originally called "c with classes" ... it had all the C functionality intact

Default avatar.png Maxim251: Struct is new. And C users can also use struct. Class for C users are not avaible.

tibithegreat: no

reCurse: No struct is not new

reCurse: Please stop spreading misinformation

mzbear: lol

mzbear: where's my popcorn

tibithegreat: I recommending the Bjorne Stroustrup about c and c++

tibithegreat: if you really want to know about this stuff

tibithegreat: I may have typoed the name and name of the book there

Default avatar.png Maxim251: Then my source was wired, because it stay in my myind

Default avatar.png Maxim251: I need again look info about struct...

mzbear: i'll just drop this here: - A History of C++: 1979− 1991 ... directly from the horse's mouth

Astrobytes: as reCurse said, struct came from C.

mzbear: perhaps you've misunderstood something

Astrobytes: In C++ struct has everything as public by default, because there was no notion of this in C

struct: sruct is to be released on c++2

struct: c++20

mzbear: the "struct" keyword is slightly different in C compared to C++

Astrobytes: :smirk:

tibithegreat: @mzbear huh?

tibithegreat: how is it different?

mzbear: because C requires it to be used when declaring variables of struct types

tibithegreat: it should be the exact same thing as in C

reCurse: He's right, it's slightly different in C

reCurse: But it's just syntax

mzbear: if you have struct Foo {}; ... in C++ you can say Foo x; .. but in C you need to say struct Foo x;

reCurse: Conceptually it's the same

Astrobytes: yes but lets not split syntactical hairs for this guy rn

tibithegreat: wasn't the whole thing that a C++ compiler should be able to compile C code?

Default avatar.png Maxim251:

reCurse: Yeah the problem is at a much higher level here

reCurse: No need to dive that far

Default avatar.png Maxim251: wiki about C struct, but still I am looking

mzbear: i suspect maxim's misunderstanding originates from some factual information, that has been interpreted wrong

mzbear: the difference in the syntax might be such a thing

Astrobytes: Could be either way. There is a lot of bullshit on the interwebz

struct: This is why I use classes

mzbear: struct: don't tell me you get a notification every time someone says struct

reCurse: I don't know if there's youtube for flat earth conspiracy, there's certainly room for youtube saying there was no struct in C until C++

struct: What do you think?

struct: 20 red texts

Astrobytes: Exactly reCurse.

Astrobytes: Wonder if someone will use tobou as a keyword one day :thinking:

tibithegreat: flat earth conspiracy isn't even the craziest conspiracy out there

Astrobytes: Let's not go there.

Astrobytes: For our own sanity.

tibithegreat: fair enough :)

reCurse: If I cared for my sanity I'd stay out of webchat :thinking:

Default avatar.png Maxim251: In C++, a class defined with the class keyword has private members and base classes by default. A structure is a class defined with the struct keyword.[1] Its members and base classes are public by default. In practice, structs are typically reserved for data without functions. When deriving a struct from a class/struct, default access-specifier for a base class/struct is public. And when deriving a class, default access specifier is private.

Default avatar.png Maxim251: Text from wiki

Astrobytes: lol, I'm having a 'break' :/

Default avatar.png bwa: Structs vs classes, public vs private

Meanwhile Python: I'm sorry, what?

jacek: do we hilight him much?

reCurse: Meanwhile Python has exited the conversation due to an exception

tibithegreat: bwa: C++ would train an entire neural network by the time python would finish sayng "I'm sorry what?"

Default avatar.png bwa: You do know CPython, right? :D

tibithegreat: may have exagerated a bit :-"

mzbear: python is for people who value developer time more than runtime

tibithegreat: I've heard about it, didn't use it tho

reCurse: lol

reCurse: Value developer time?

Default avatar.png bwa: If you used python, you've almost surely used CPython

Default avatar.png Maxim251: To day I fill that I will not find that info about What I was talking about. But I heard that info and it stays it in my mind. Maybe that source was wrong...

reCurse: As in "wtf is that parameter supposed to be"?

reCurse: Yeah not sure about that

reCurse: It's close to a write-only language

mzbear: haha, sure if you abuse tuples, and i suppose you will

reCurse: Add a tuple to your return? Oh I'm so sorry about all your code that just broke

tibithegreat: I mostly use python when I want to do some data manipulation really fast and don't care about speed or anything

reCurse: Have fun fixing all calls

tibithegreat: like I have some raw data and want to get some kind of statistics

mzbear: but i've found that developing things in python is super fast. then again, i've never done anything big in python

tibithegreat: it becomes a bit of a pain when you have large codebase

reCurse: Or all that time I spend into how to write as little python as possible by abusing vectorization so it's relatively faster

reCurse: Even if straightforward imperative C++ shitty code would run 20x faster

struct: Its only faster if you know it

reCurse: So much about dev time...

Default avatar.png Maxim251: Python is bunch of sort of functions, where in C++ You need most of that basik stuf write Yourself.

tibithegreat: for 40-50 line straightforward code I do preffer python

tibithegreat: if I don't care about performance

reCurse: Ever grabbed random python code and wondered wtf those argument types are? Yeah.

therealbeef: reCurse a lot of those python problems can be avoided with good unit tests, though

Default avatar.png Maxim251: Yeah, Then You wait 10 times longer to finish program.

reCurse: No sorry I call bullshit on that

mzbear: for example, python generators are awesome. maybe c++20 coroutines will bridge that gap a little, though

tibithegreat: I didn't say anything about reading someone else's python code

Default avatar.png Maxim251: But I agree, Pyton is super easy language,

tibithegreat: I said about writting python code for a task

reCurse: Sure, write-only language

Astrobytes: you can specify types no?

tibithegreat: like for example if you want to find out how many reachable states there are in a tic-tac-toe game

reCurse: If you can I have yet to come across any code that makes use of it

tibithegreat: and wiki didn't provide that answer

tibithegreat: that's just a random example of where I would write a quick python program to find out the answer

reCurse: Especially since it's apparently idiomatic to have an argument supported to be an int, a list, an object or whatever

reCurse: And you hope the documentation is up to date

Default avatar.png Maxim251: ps, Python is more like script, C++ is real language. And at last, Python is build from C++ :)

reCurse: Or existing

mzbear: python types aren't for the runtime, they're for tooling

tibithegreat: well python is a scripting language

tibithegreat: that's how it started if i remember correctly

Default avatar.png Maxim251: yeah :)

tibithegreat: just that probably a lot of newcome programmers started learning because it was "so easy"

tibithegreat: market share grew

tibithegreat: and companies started using it in large codebase because they could find programmers easily

Astrobytes: yeah I think from 3.6(?) you can do var: type = soemthing

Astrobytes: *something

reCurse: I have not seen any code in the wild using it

reCurse: Not in ML spheres anyway

Astrobytes: No, I haven't. I've used it for sanity reasons now and then however.

tibithegreat: oh and I suspect ML uses it a lot because most people doing ML have a more academia background

tibithegreat: rather than coding background

reCurse: Sure

mzbear: i've used python type hints here on CG, but that's just me, and i cant remember which puzzles i've used them on since i dont keep local copies of my code

reCurse: That's what driving me up the walls

Default avatar.png bwa: Python type hints are only for your IDE

reCurse: Well if it can do static validation that would be something

reCurse: But if most libraries you use don't make use of it

reCurse: Or most examples or codebases you find don't use it

reCurse: Not much point is there?

Default avatar.png bwa: We don't use them much, yea

tibithegreat: but the thing about type hints is something that's valid in a lot of languages

Astrobytes: Still find it odd that this fairly generic scripting language has become what it is today, and as popular as it is today. Considering when we were all using perl back in the day, python was just hanging around for the odd task here and there

tibithegreat: php, js etc

reCurse: You have academia to thank for that

reCurse: Though I guess they could have chosen worse

reCurse: Like all ML done in perl

tibithegreat: Astrobytes: I'm more surprised about how big JS is nowadays

reCurse: Maybe I definitely wouldn't bother then

Astrobytes: Haha, now that would be something indeed

Astrobytes: Yes, also that tibithegreat

reCurse: Torch was initially in Lua

tibithegreat: I used to do webdev like 7 years ago before I went into gamedev

reCurse: Possibly worse than Python

tibithegreat: and js was like ... something very limited for client-browser only

Astrobytes: I did webdev 2000-2001

tibithegreat: and jquery came by and people were like "oooo large js codebase"

reCurse: Oh you're at ubisoft too

reCurse: Eh

therealbeef: back in the day we did a lot of ML in matlab lol

tibithegreat: and now it's like

tibithegreat: what the hell happened, why are we writting server code in js

tibithegreat: recurse: yeah I'm at ubi as well :)

reCurse: Because to share the existing marvelous frontend js ecosystem

reCurse: Have to spread the can...glory

tibithegreat: yeah allowing frontend programmers to dive into backend was "great"

Astrobytes: Makes my skin crawl.

mzbear: php is depressing. i actually did some php webdev for few years some time ago. one day i even got fed up with it so bad that i went to buy a bottle of rum in middle of workday and shared it with any coworkers who wanted to listen to what i had just found in the php's source code

tibithegreat: :))

Default avatar.png bwa: :) PHP had a good run, it's time for it to go

Astrobytes: People say it's better these days...

Default avatar.png bwa: Yea, it's called Python

mzbear: i dont remember why, but i had a need to read the Zend runtime compiler and it vividly resembled 60's tech innovations

Astrobytes: heh

mzbear: the language has changed a lot since then, though. nowadays they actually make a syntax tree before they start executing it

reCurse: But think of all the jobs it created at facebook

reCurse: Retrofitting PHP code for years

reCurse: Into C++

Astrobytes: Go figure

mzbear: it's also hilarious how the == operator keeps changing between php versions

tibithegreat: I actually did 2 internships at facebook

tibithegreat: around 2009-2010

tibithegreat: they php code was also a mess

Astrobytes: I gave up on it in the mid (I think) 00s. Trying to maintain forums and other CMS systems was just ridiculous

tibithegreat: maybe it got better now but at that time it was quite messy

Astrobytes: There was no clean PHP code then or before

tibithegreat: the most noteworthy moment was when I wrote some code somewhere that was pretty deep

Astrobytes: It *invited* messiness

tibithegreat: and php triggered a warning because I did something weird

tibithegreat: but I was so deep and the callstack was so big

reCurse: Well it's possible to write it clean, but when the path of least resistance is littered with pitfalls

mzbear: .. ..

tibithegreat: that the error handler crashed

reCurse: That's what you end up with

Astrobytes: haha

mzbear: there's comparson of the == and === operators for three versions of php back when i was working with it

mzbear: (and don't ask me why i was working on a codebase that had NaN for associative array keys)

Astrobytes: Yeah, I'm not gonna talk about PHP from before that. Even PHP devs don't talk about The Dark Times.

tibithegreat: @mzbear what the hell :))

Astrobytes: Sorry, we do have to at least question that if not ask directly

mzbear: "we started writing this product with lotus notes and rewrote it in php later, the guys from back then have moved on already, as have the next guys, and the next guys, ..."

Westicles: Is Haskell worth learning? The solutions I see are always so short and elegant looking

reCurse: Excuse me while I go puke

Astrobytes: LOTUS NOTES

reCurse: Depends on your objectives Westicles

Astrobytes: Haskell (for me) is a lot of hard work. But it sure as hell can be elegant.

mzbear: significant part of haskell code looking elegant is because of the type of people who prefer to write haskell code

reCurse: lol

reCurse: Seems quite accurate

Astrobytes: hahaha, that is possible

Westicles: Good point. It is really just 2 guys

mzbear: and then there's

Astrobytes: I haven't finished but that's rather good

Astrobytes: *finished yet

Astrobytes: Ended up clicking on 'Rewriting the Coding Interview' (Clojure). Stopping now.

reCurse: So this is what art looks like

Astrobytes: The magic is lost upon viewing.

therealbeef: is haskell a bit like Prolog?

Default avatar.png JBM: sure

Westicles: The nice Haskell guy appears :)

therealbeef: it is great to program in that kind of language

therealbeef: template programming in C++ is a lot like that too

PatrickMcGinnisII: how does Westicles get 45k XP all of a sudden"?

**Astrobytes goes back to raic

Westicles: I got a settlement from libel suit against Velcro

Astrobytes: Yo JBM: next puzzle/clash on the them, Westcoro Belligerence Challenge

Astrobytes: *theme

Default avatar.png JBM: what about this time?

Default avatar.png JBM: the good XP vs the bad XP?

Astrobytes: Perhaps. Sounds reasonable.

PatrickMcGinnisII: editor on CG still broken?

Westicles: learning how to like yourself

Astrobytes: Still needs elements of the former issue with that name though.

Default avatar.png JBM: meme time

Default avatar.png JBM: *ALWAYS WAS*

PatrickMcGinnisII: yup editor is still broken

Astrobytes: Like it Westicles? :D

Astrobytes: I liked my word play in the title at least.

Default avatar.png JBM: narcissistic xp

Astrobytes: Or maybe a theme of broken CG features.

Astrobytes: That could be quite a series.

Default avatar.png JBM: aoc-like fodder

Westicles: These poor teenagers doing the clashes are going to be so confused

Default avatar.png JBM: lol

AntiSquid: how about puzzle name: hard earned xp

Astrobytes: Westicles-JBM-Velcoro collaboration FTMFW

PatrickMcGinnisII: where is the bug reporting?

Default avatar.png JBM: discord

AntiSquid: task something that usually requires heavy computation, but plot twist you can use a trick to do it quickly in one go, or just make all answers 1 or something .

Astrobytes: To it's headquarters like any obedient bug PatrickMcGinnisII

PatrickMcGinnisII: Langston is not here

Astrobytes: Eh. Well, there's the forum or the channel on discord.

Astrobytes: If it's about the editor there're a few posts already

Default avatar.png JBM: or you could mail, i suppose

Astrobytes: True.

Default avatar.png JBM: did that a few times in the past

Astrobytes: Any faster?

PatrickMcGinnisII: found feedback & bugs in forum

Default avatar.png JBM: it gets answers, yes

Default avatar.png JBM: fixes... don't remember

Astrobytes: :smirk:

Default avatar.png JBM: oh i remember

Default avatar.png JBM: i used mail for (non-personal) times where some red popup in the UI instructed me to

Default avatar.png JBM: nowadays if really i'm still inclined to report anything i'll just drop it on the forum

Default avatar.png JBM: it doesn't get anything done, but it clears my conscience

PatrickMcGinnisII: yall prolly don't use the CG editor as much as i do

Astrobytes: I do sometimes. Short puzzles, or tweaking existing magic numbers

Default avatar.png JBM: for clashes and easy puzzles

PatrickMcGinnisII: Stuff in firefox just stopped working

PatrickMcGinnisII: i know i get a warning evertime i load cg

PatrickMcGinnisII: but it WAS working

Astrobytes: Stuff you say.

Default avatar.png JBM: just use a real browser

PatrickMcGinnisII: go in a puzzle

PatrickMcGinnisII: click on a blank line

PatrickMcGinnisII: and tell me if the cursor shows up?

Astrobytes: Use Lynx like any normal person Patrick. Dammit.

Default avatar.png JBM: yes

PatrickMcGinnisII: ok, so what browser is that?

Default avatar.png JBM: firefox

Astrobytes: nvm :D

PatrickMcGinnisII: hmm

PatrickMcGinnisII: using Waterfox, should be fine tho

Astrobytes: works fine in Opera, Chrome and FF here

PatrickMcGinnisII: hmmm, maybe my adblocker is catching it now

PatrickMcGinnisII: nothing changed on my system

PatrickMcGinnisII: as far as i know

PatrickMcGinnisII: so wierd and annoying

Astrobytes: Haven't tried GaleForceWindFox or HurricaneForceWindFox yet

PatrickMcGinnisII: I hate chrome

AntiSquid: noted

Astrobytes: Don't be elementalist.

AntiSquid: btw PatrickMcGinnisII is this you?

PatrickMcGinnisII: I like chromatic lanterns

AntiSquid: or are you related ?

Astrobytes: his website is in his bio squiddy

PatrickMcGinnisII: not me, all McGinnis's are related, there's only like 20k of us

Astrobytes: or used to be I think?

Astrobytes: 20k! Pretty low

AntiSquid: PatrickMcGinnisII

PatrickMcGinnisII: no, not me... most people mistake me for an atty 3rd cousin of mine

PatrickMcGinnisII: or my father

PatrickMcGinnisII: Pat I

AntiSquid: you have II on your ID ?

PatrickMcGinnisII: er Sr.

PatrickMcGinnisII: yes, I am Pat the Second

PatrickMcGinnisII: Pat²

Astrobytes: ESS-QUIRE!!!

jamiejones87: Really having trouble on Don't Panic Code Golf. Managed to get to 217 characters with Python. Does anyone have any advise where to do some optimization studies?

AntiSquid: advice *

PatrickMcGinnisII: jamiejones87 my don't panic is 381, so i can't help u

PatrickMcGinnisII: looks like dbdr has all the tricks

PatrickMcGinnisII: or dwarfie

PatrickMcGinnisII: i gtg

PatrickMcGinnisII: yall have fun

AntiSquid: plopx always high ranked on golf

AntiSquid: and i think legit

Astrobytes: jamiejones87: should be some tips in the forum for python golfing, also may have some tricks

Westicles: Solve the non-golf problem and look at all the solutions

Astrobytes: ^ the quick way

AntiSquid: ya some guy even asked on stackoverflow how to code golf thor

TBali: my python is 244 :-( , so You help us :-)

struct: my ruby solution has bash on it for 1 of the puzzles

struct: still not close to top

jamiejones87: Thanks for that :)

jamiejones87: I'm happy to share some advise where I've been able to minimise to this point

AntiSquid: that avatar basically says: "I am the golf boss"

Astrobytes: As a fellow Celt I urge you to share those tips with the community jamiejones87 :P

TBali: In any language I don't know well, I usualy already fail at input parsing - way to long

jamiejones87: I've learned how to declare multiple variables on a single line, use lamba functions, initialize arrays with a loop, and create single-line while loops

struct: This is how it starts I think

struct: p`tail -1`

Astrobytes: well, that's but a search and a couple of minutes/hours away TBali

jamiejones87: I don't want to give too much away, but these tips really helped to minimise my solution

Astrobytes: crunch your whitespace, use local operators wisely

jamiejones87: especially by replacing repetitive code with lambda functions

Astrobytes: *local? What am I on. Logical

AntiSquid: the IDE really got annoying to code with in python ... how can anyone focus with those bloody yellow underlines

Astrobytes: some bitwise logical operator magic can do a world of good in the golfing situation sometimes

TBali: This one is killing me: a=[int(u)for u in input().split()]

Default avatar.png musayime: Haha python

TBali: and I only need a[3] and a[4]

TBali: and a[7] ... neverminf

AntiSquid: IDE in python gives me warnings like these: "blank line contains whitespace" so what? lol

Astrobytes: gotta read 'em all :P

jamiejones87: I used input().split() a few times, so I decided to make a function instead

Astrobytes: It's buggy rn afaik AntiSquid

AntiSquid: another warning " blank space after '(' " wow ...

jamiejones87: single-line while loops helped remove whitespace

Astrobytes: yeah you can have s=input.split() etc

Astrobytes: or something like that

TBali: "crunch your whitespace, use local operators wisely" haha I already started goolgling it up hoping learning something new :-)

AntiSquid: missing whitespace after ',' this IDE is trying to thought police me

Astrobytes: sorry Tbali, it's been a long day :D

TBali: And we have still 4 mintues from it. .. or you more

AntiSquid: 1 hour

jamiejones87: Thanks for the advise about Python Bitwise Operators. I think this'll really help :)

Astrobytes: It can be useful shaving off a few chars that's for sure

TBali: Golfing strength of Ruby is shownm by the fact that - while I am very novice in it -3 out of 4 golf puzzles I am already shortest in Ruby.

jamiejones87: Well my main language is Java... Not very good for the codegolf lol

TBali: Shorter then in PHP which I would say know much better

TBali: Java golf .... yep, never give up!

TBali: :)

jamiejones87: Had to learn Python just to have a chance!

AntiSquid: your top 5 languages count for each code golf puzzle and you get 200 points top for each language so a lot of effort

TBali: My Java Dont Panic is 512 chars...

jamiejones87: Although, some people have solved Don't Panic in under 200 chars with Java... Sounds impossible!

TBali: Actually C# is longer

TBali: Using system calls and bash

TBali: 200 chars I mean

jamiejones87: Yikes

jamiejones87: Think I'm going to try Ruby soon... Maybe get it with that

Astrobytes: Yeah, but like AntiSquid said, keep trying to get the shortest you can in whatever language you're using

Astrobytes: They all give points

TBali: Just read that new C# does not require 'static main() in a class' anymore

TBali: Will save some chars when it reached CG (in 2022)

Astrobytes: yeah, not on CG as yet though

Astrobytes: lol right

AntiSquid: wow what an improvement :o

AntiSquid: the most confusing java bit was that static main string args[] something

TBali: Will now make it a golfing language

TBali: Console.WriteLine(a);

AntiSquid: VB syntax quality

TBali: vs puts a

TBali: outside golf, I like expressive syntax that is readable as English. I don't know C# except 30 easy puzzles yet I can follow a not too complex code. Not the case with Haskell or Perl

jamiejones87: Takes over 100 chars in java just to declare a class and main :S

Astrobytes: nah you can bring that down

TBali: Can you name the class anything (P) or must it be Player?

TBali: Have not checked that one

AntiSquid: i think some libraries might not be mandatory to declare in code golf

AntiSquid: for most languages

TBali: import java.util.*;class Solution{public static void main(String z[]){

most likely I have room to implrove

jamiejones87: Need to call the class Player, but you can call args[] anything... (a for short)

TBali: Yes I did that. Actuially it is Solutionm which is even longer

TBali: Immutable Strings - that is my favourite... :-)

TBali: StringBuilder b=new StringBuilder()

TBali: I need a bigger monitor

jamiejones87: I think the shortest way to get a Java program set up with input is

jamiejones87: import java.util.*;class Player{public static void main(String a[]){Scanner s=new Scanner(;}}

jamiejones87: 103 chars :'(

jamiejones87: Correct me if I'm wrong though :)

TBali: That is how my codes also start...

TBali: Now I see sometimes I used class Solution instead of class Player

jamiejones87: How on earth have some people managed to solve it in under 200 chars?!

TBali: Most likely they used Java only as a wrapper around a bash solution

TBali: or perl

Westicles: interface Player{static void main(String[]a){

jamiejones87: Or point to a cloud server which hosts the backend lol

TBali: Runtime r = Runtime.getRuntime(); Process p = r.exec("perl ...");

TBali: If my googling is right

TBali: (Never tried myself)

Astrobytes: good shout on the String[]a Westicles

TBali: Yep that is -1 chars But you cannot leave out public from public static void main

Astrobytes: yes you can, try it

TBali: I just tired

TBali: tried

Astrobytes: with interface?

TBali: Ahh, tricky

Astrobytes: definitely tired :P

TBali: :) It is easy for you, you are still at Saturday, I am already on Sunday

TBali: 508 chars - new world record... or not

Astrobytes: meh, you only have an hour on me!

Astrobytes: hey an improvement is an improvement right?

TBali: looking at my code (it is several months old, I already forgot) maybe calling nextInt() 12 times is not the brightest idea

AntiSquid: 12 apostoles 12 zodiac signs ... etc maybe you were on to something

TBali: sure my Ruby is 187, so only 320 chars to go

Astrobytes: Java will never be Ruby

TBali: dirty dozen

Astrobytes: I still love that movie I have to admit.

TBali: Comparing results WITHIN a language: Ruby 187 chars is only ahead of 59% of submissions Java 512 chars is 78%

TBali: (I mean 100% would be top place, 0% the last

AntiSquid: 12 monkeys

Astrobytes: Also a fun movie

TBali: 12 angry men, if you are into BW classics

AntiSquid: oh damn reminds me of the pandemic ... :thinking:

Astrobytes: Which is worst TBali? I'd check myself but your analyses are usually quicker

TBali: Don't get the question

AntiSquid: 1957 ? wow that's an old movie tbali

TBali: see it, it is good.

therealbeef: 12 angry men is one of the best movies ever made

TBali: Power of psychology

TBali: Still valid

Astrobytes: I meant chars within a language TBali, my apologies

TBali: 187 chars is Ruby was 157th place out of 381 when I submitted

TBali: That is 59th percentile.

TBali: Java 512 chars was better in this respect

TBali: 78th percentile

TBali: If you meant this.

Astrobytes: ah no, I thought you'd compared them all :)

Astrobytes: (all languages)

Astrobytes: Don't do that on my behalf though

Astrobytes: oh 12 Angry Men, quality movie

TBali: I solved Don't panic golf only in 12

TBali: (See: 12 again . it cannot be a coincidence)

Astrobytes: Heh

TBali: AND: if you subtract my XP level from my XP rank and multiply by 6, what did you get?

TBali: 12!!!!

TBali: I am into something important here

TBali: :)

TBali: Gotta go to sleep

Astrobytes: It's stil 12/12 here

TBali: OMG

Astrobytes: It's the 23 thing all over again

Astrobytes: well, goodnight TBali :)

TBali: Bye

IamFish: boy oh boy, here go the servers

AntiSquid: "there goes the neighbourhood"

therealbeef: if you have any bots that don't rely on calculation power, this is the time to resubmit them :D

AntiSquid: really?

therealbeef: i dunno

AntiSquid: what if one just troll with 5 ms bots ?

AntiSquid: or less

therealbeef: but if the battle server is slow too, those sim bots get to sim less

struct: Dont think so

struct: Submit will only be slower

struct: You wil have to wait more time for the bots to start next battle

therealbeef: so the battle server is separate from the slowdown?

struct: Not sure how it works

struct: But on ide, the battle will take a while to start

struct: but code will perform the same

struct: as if there was no lag

eallam: Hello Guys

eallam: I m practicing java and i want now to practice Python , how to start practicing a new language

eallam: ?

LegendaryStone: u code

LegendaryStone: lol

LegendaryStone: you practice by coding

therealbeef: u debug :)

Default avatar.png JCTheThird: You cry yourself to sleep knowing that you'll never really be able to memorize syntax, and question your life choices every time you have to google the differences between array declarations in C++ and Java...

twitlydoof: @eallam Learning a language becomes an easy task if you know how to program, it's best to first improve on your programming skills and knowledge and then you'll find learning languages much easier

Lobster_Speed: yh