Chat:World/2020-11-25

**PrO_OGrmr hello

RougherO: hello

tomatoes: ... -> forum?

linjoehan: Will a simultaneous multi allow 600 turns? or does each player use up one turn so only 300?

jrke: top right three dots nerchio

VizGhar: strange feeling to clash clash created by me :D

rockstar555: hii

Nerchio: ooh thanks imo a weird place to have 'forum' btw

Nerchio: should be on top panel i think

Nerchio: thanks

SurduTony: no nut november almost over, stay strong

AntiSquid: lol

struct: I think he has been warned already

struct: I wasnt here

struct: chat bugged?

JBM: any more than usual?

AntiSquid: who got warned?

AntiSquid: rockstar555 anything apart from hi ?

LordSkaven: he says hii sometimes

ruasd: :V

ruasd: :)

eulerscheZahl: linjoehan you can have a total CPU time of 30s which is equal to 600 single player actions at 50ms each. so it's 300 turns each in 1vs1

melchi: zo

mathieuschnd2: HELLO

ZarthaxX: hai

struct: hi

AntonCosmin: hi guys

sebak: hello programmers

AtomicDemon_f847: Hello

MadKnight: hello sebak

miszu: I finally was able to unit test my UTTT

MadKnight: gg

miszu: I created lots of lookup table that I need to compute at turn 1. It's good to test correctness

miszu: also tested the small board for my bits operations. Now I will write tests for big board and make sure the states are correct

dbdr: eulerscheZahl: action again on https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/optimization/cgfunge-prime/leaderboard <https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/optimization/cgfunge-prime/leaderboard?column=CODINGAMER&value=FOLLOWING>

JavaFather: hallo everyone

kovi: wow https://twitter.com/xevixevi

dbdr: why wow kovi?

eulerscheZahl: now you have to fight back dbdr

dbdr: yeah. I know I can improve, but that's a lot

kovi: seems that xevi is not a one trick pony

dbdr: yes

eulerscheZahl: "I reduced it by about 100 steps. I'm not sure about the limits, but it won't be so easy. Since there is no drill, it is finished for the time being, so which one is next?

struct: anyone has any resources on handling bitboards bigger than 64 bits

eulerscheZahl: somehow chat is still laggy for me

struct: The pdf I read doesnt have a lot about it

mars_magnet: Hi

dbdr: drill is probably a mistranlation

dbdr: any japanese speaker around?

darkhorse64: struct: gcc supports 128 bits but if you look at the assembly it's just 2x64bits. I don't think there is much too gain from it

struct: darkhorse64 i wanted to try on HS

struct: But I dont understand how I can work with 3x ui64

struct: I dont understand how to go from 1 region to another

eulerscheZahl: he's not really checking if numbers are prime but hardcoding according to twitter

eulerscheZahl: but i guess you assumed that before

darkhorse64: You have also been tempted to Beam Search by the latest contest. Ask MSmits for info on HS

struct: Yeah, i kinda managed to do a beam search of some kind

ZarthaxX: :rofl:

struct: The problem is that I cant find MSmits

ZarthaxX: he is busy

ZarthaxX: just wait lol

Westicles: no drill probably means no time limit

dbdr: yeah

darkhorse64: There is nothing in the PMs ? I haven't read them

eulerscheZahl: ixanezix (HS contest winner) used a 128bit integer to store the board

ZarthaxX: that's what i told him

ZarthaxX: :(

eulerscheZahl: i have a typo in the name

darkhorse64: Look like an Asterix & Obelix name

Lysk: :D

struct: I dont think he stored the board on 128 bits

struct: but the boxes

eulerscheZahl: a little bit of info about number shifting: https://twitter.com/xevixevi/status/1323805595619635201

struct: The only stuff I found is what its on the pdf that was linked multiple times here before

struct: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/33500946.pdf

struct: its at the bottom

darkhorse64: There is a LHAC implementation for NS on Marchete GitHub repos

darkhorse64: Sorry LAHC

dbdr: public bot? :O

darkhorse64: Without eval ...

eulerscheZahl: one that gets you around lvl200 i think

eulerscheZahl: didn't test

darkhorse64: I used this algo for A*C

dbdr: eulerscheZahl: I need \ that does division in the reverse order ;)

eulerscheZahl: reverse order? you mean modulo?

eulerscheZahl: aah, for shorter code

eulerscheZahl: CG funge

dbdr: stack(0)/stack(1)

Westicles: We can let some weirdo cat guy beat us

Westicles: can't

eulerscheZahl: he worked hard on it

eulerscheZahl: more than 2 months for number shifting. then shared a screenshot of level 654

eulerscheZahl: looks massive

Westicles: Maybe I'll try to improve it a little... unless you want to take him dbdr?

dbdr: not now I think

ProMikeSundays: hi

Osoky: hello

Kingcodinggg: Hi

TheMusicalGiant_6f99: Hi

ProMikeSundays: what is your opinion on programmers getting automated because of more advanced versions of gpt-3?

TheMusicalGiant_6f99: any body using php ?!

ProMikeSundays: @TheMusicalGiant_6f99 please send me to hell first

ProMikeSundays: :joy:

zub: im terrible

Jabberwocky733: Trying to get to Gold league with C. Any tips?

Jabberwocky733: For instance, is it worth it to use a machine learning approach, or is a rule-based heuristic adequate?

Lysk: that choice has little to do with the language

Jabberwocky733: True, although I would probably switch to Python if I wanted to go with machine learning.

Uljahn: ML is rarely an option on CG

Jabberwocky733: I'm trying to find a pragmatic way to describe a strategy directly, but I think it's difficult and tedious.

Jabberwocky733: Oh, interesting @Uljahn. Is that because there's just not enough time to evaluate the neural network?

Uljahn: ye, also your code is limited by 100k chars

Jabberwocky733: I saw that it's possible to download and run the referee locally, so I assumed that unsupervised learning would be possible

Jabberwocky733: Ohhhh

Jabberwocky733: cool

Jabberwocky733: That actually makes me quite happy to hear, though, since ML is sort of the same approach regardless of the game, which is kinda boring

Jabberwocky733: But what do you do instead? Just a hierarchy of functions calling functions? Or maybe something like a state machine?

Lysk: check the forum, the thread "feedback&strategies", it will give you an overview of what people tried

Jabberwocky733: Thanks Lysk, I'll check it out!

Lysk: here: https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/fall-challenge-2020-feedbacks-strategies/

Jabberwocky733: Thanks a lot :thumbsup:

Uljahn: i guess top players often use search-based algorithms to find suboptimal solution in a given time

Uljahn: you need to reimplement a game engine and them simulate and evaluate consequent states to search for better actions

Jabberwocky733: Alright, I thought implementing simulation too. That sounds doable and fun. Thanks a lot. :)

jacek: ML is rarely applicable here due to time and size constraints

jacek: well offline params optimization is more of a thing

Uljahn: some games are ML-friendly though

eulerscheZahl: should have done the latter, felt a bit lazy on it

Jabberwocky733: Makes sense

eulerscheZahl: would have given a better return than the C++ conversion i think

struct: sorry for suggesting port :(

eulerscheZahl: my fault for doing it

struct: I was paid by top players

jacek: huh

eulerscheZahl: at least now you know that i'm capable of writing some C++

eulerscheZahl: back to C#

struct: jacek you are also good with bitboards right?

jacek: a bit

struct: Do you know anything about using multiple int64 to represent a board

struct: Like if board is bigger than 64 bits

jacek: i was going to try one. i think i found gomoku on multiple ints on github

jacek: https://github.com/wwatkins42/gomoku

jacek: 19x19 board

struct: Thanks Ill check

struct: I never really done bitboards, not sure if its a wise choice to go this route

struct: for the first time

jacek: 8x8 boards are straightforward

eulerscheZahl: 7x7 even more

ZarthaxX: 1x1 evenmore

eulerscheZahl: extra space to clear after shifting

jacek: and beyong bit"boards", bit operations are generally faster

eulerscheZahl: you won ZarthaxX

jacek: 0x0

ZarthaxX: :)

TimberStalker: what is a bitboard? is it just using ints to make a 2d array?

ZarthaxX: that's a face jacek

ZarthaxX: jacek and copying the state

ZarthaxX: also faster

struct: I also found this tutorial if anyone wants to check

struct: http://blog.gamesolver.org/solving-connect-four/01-introduction/

struct: its about connect 4, but talks about a lot of stuff

jacek: too bad we dont have connect4 on CG

struct: but we do

ZarthaxX: that bot goes super fast anyway

jacek: but its ugly

ZarthaxX: kind of solved lol

struct: my feelings :(

ZarthaxX: noob struct

struct: which bot ZarthaxX?

jacek: oh karliso changed avatar

jacek: looked familiar

eulerscheZahl: i like it

eulerscheZahl: it's from https://craftpix.net/freebies/knight-character-free-sprite/

eulerscheZahl: but he recolored it to make it blue

ZarthaxX: struct the one of that article

struct: it goes fast at the end

ZarthaxX: i played against it years ago, goes super fast and has the optimal always

struct: at the start not so much

ZarthaxX: hardcode the options for beginning and gg xconnect4

ZarthaxX: anyway yes, its a cool article

struct: i got legend finally ZarthaxX

ZarthaxX: where?

ZarthaxX: ah

ZarthaxX: fall

struct: fc2020

ZarthaxX: i have to go there

ZarthaxX: gz man :)

struct: I just waited

ZarthaxX: proudy of my structy

struct: I was top 40 and got pushed to legend

ZarthaxX: ah, the waiting game, classic

ZarthaxX: LOL wtf

tomatoes: :thumbsup:

ZarthaxX: it's nice that they opened it earlier

MadKnight: eulerscheZahl

eulerscheZahl: MadKnight

MadKnight: remind me

MadKnight: what did u not like about java's lists ?

MadKnight: there was something

**eulerscheZahl reminds MadKnight

eulerscheZahl: arraylist<integer[]>?

MadKnight: like

MadKnight: oh right

eulerscheZahl: something like that is broken

TimberStalker: Why would you do that though?

eulerscheZahl: because i'm evil

TimberStalker: cant you just use integer[][]?

eulerscheZahl: or list<list<int>>

TimberStalker: that too i guess

eulerscheZahl: but when i know the size for one dimension but not the other

TimberStalker: You can still use an arraylist if you know the size of the dimension

MadKnight: but he doesn't

TimberStalker: Simple question. Can you use multiple files for coding?

MadKnight: ofc

MadKnight: i do

MadKnight: i'm using multiple files + custom script to merge my entire code into 1 file + cg local that sync's local code file with CG ide

TimberStalker: i mean, yes, but i meant builtin.

MadKnight: why would u need someone else's when u can make your own

therealbeef: Are there limits on source file size or compilation time?

Uljahn: 100k chars and 1 sec for the first turn

eulerscheZahl: compilation

MadKnight: yea 100k chars means 200k bytes if u use uft16

eulerscheZahl: i think 20s. a little more for clojure

therealbeef: ah, to prevent people from generating large lookup tables offline?

eulerscheZahl: to keep the database small

struct: cg saves all the code

Uljahn: to prevent submit history from exploding yes

reCurse: It can be larger than 200kb with utf8

TimberStalker: for those who use a language with curly brackets, do you use option a or b

TimberStalker: option a: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/34261701-5262-43b7-904e-5a5544a66699

CommanderCero: are you trying to cause a war

TimberStalker: Maybe

TimberStalker: I use option b by the way

VizGhar: You should not care about that :D

VizGhar: why do you care? For C#, C, C++ I'll choose style B, for any other language style A (Java, JS, Kotlin, Dart...)

zub: option a, all day

VizGhar: whatever ide choose on autoformat

struct: i use A to save my enter key

therealbeef: B. code needs to breathe

VizGhar: :D but you have to strike SPACE

therealbeef: made a bot that takes 2 minutes to compile :-(

struct: 2 minutes to compile?

struct: What have you done?

TimberStalker: How?

therealbeef: solving TTT using template meta programming

eulerscheZahl: "whatever ide choose on autoformat" same here

eulerscheZahl: there are some really ugly styles though

eulerscheZahl: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentation_style

eulerscheZahl: like whitesmith, seriously?

struct: haskell seems even worse

therealbeef: compilation timeout is 10s :-(

eulerscheZahl: there are some examples of how not to do it IMO

TimberStalker: Who in the world would EVER use haskel

eulerscheZahl: JBM triggered

struct: therealbeef dont forget that TTT changes once you go above wood 2

struct: or wood1

JBM: yeah that haskell example is completely invalid

JBM: there's no while keyword, so it can't be layout-inducing

JBM: there was a viral tweet some time ago with the various haskell indenting styles

TimberStalker: wait.

zub: but if you use haskell you can post on your twitter about monads and think everyone thinks your super smart

TimberStalker: I just realised ti-84 programming is basically haskell

ZarthaxX: therealbeef u crazy :P

therealbeef: it works though ;-) instant regular TTT solve from any position

therealbeef: maybe I can let the compiler only do the later moves and put some runtime stuff on top of it

ZarthaxX: o.o

ZarthaxX: you should do UTTT :D

MadKnight: yea u can just bruteforce all the possibilities for TTT

JBM: TimberStalker: well haskell is basically math, so there's some idea behind that similarity

ParticleBeam: Odd. Code I ran this morning is running much faster now than before

ParticleBeam: Oh. Running slow again. Must have been random chance

jacek: its tired

ToshiTuringMachine: hi nerds

ToshiTuringMachine: i am looking for ideas to improve my code of the rings branf*ck score. any help/documentation?

ZarthaxX: hi toshi

ZarthaxX: :*

eulerscheZahl: manual gameplay

ToshiTuringMachine: hi brothers

ToshiTuringMachine: what score you have there? i cannot get better than 7439

eulerscheZahl: 3534

struct: 5881

struct: with simple solution

ParticleBeam: 5921 with simple calc

ToshiTuringMachine: wow gg. any idea? like i can create the entire alphabet with +[>-[>+.<-]+.->+<<-]

eulerscheZahl: +++++++++++[->+[.+]+.-<]

ToshiTuringMachine: yeah that is the test 17 but what's the best way to create all the 21 runes and not write anything

ToshiTuringMachine: i mean 26

eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/replay/510812160 close :P

NicolasH_42: c'est du brainfk ?

ParticleBeam: Odd. Replay not working properly for me

eulerscheZahl: was sagt er da?

eulerscheZahl: after f5 it does for me

ParticleBeam: Nope. Tried reloading a few times. Maybe its something on my machine

Stranger.K: Does anyone know how I can get the IP of visitors of a website and then contact them?

eulerscheZahl: that sounds like 2 close to impossible questions at once

ToshiTuringMachine: for me too the replay doesn't move after turn 9

struct: keep refreshing

struct: after a while it worked for me

eulerscheZahl: hardcode this +[[+>]+[<]>]

ToshiTuringMachine: yeah cool

ToshiTuringMachine: amazing really

ToshiTuringMachine: but it says Failure: Bilbo has too many actions to perform (infinite loop?)

eulerscheZahl: told you it's close but not working

TimberStalker: what is that game even about?

struct: I think Im going to discard bitboards for now for HS

ToshiTuringMachine: the replay gave me a correct stop at turn 2600 lol

struct: I have some stuff i need to ask msmits

struct: euler do you think normal sim without bitboards will do well enough for legend?

eulerscheZahl: it's not the same code :P

eulerscheZahl: HS is an easy legend

struct: ok, ill do it without bitboards for now, its slowing me down too much

eulerscheZahl: pain starts around rank 100

eulerscheZahl: aka sayonara wall

struct: cp wall?

eulerscheZahl: yes

eulerscheZahl: 3rd of contest

struct: so if I win vs that bot

struct: how much do i climb?

struct: 80 ranks?

eulerscheZahl: below 100 or around top10

Illedan: eulerscheZahl suddenly changed to German in one sentence? :P

eulerscheZahl: as a response to the baguette language :P

Illedan: :D

4356gs: Hello In the new one here

eulerscheZahl: once i accidentally messaged ZarthaxX in German

4356gs: trying to find the way in the very first goal

eulerscheZahl: we have goals here: https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming/paper-soccer

eulerscheZahl: and https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming/fantastic-bits

4356gs: I am working in the Defibrillators is in the loop track

0ffset: Hi, i know this may sound awkward but can somebody lend me a hand on how to improve at IA?

JordiV: In the ANEO puzzle, anyone know why the 2nd testcase wants 36km/h and not 50 ? the distance is 200m the duration of the lights 10 secs

miszu: JordiV floating point precision loss :)

ParticleBeam: I remember one of the testcases I had a floating point issue

miszu: a hint: you can solve this problem with no division and all with integers if you do some tricks

JordiV: alright, so i am going to convert m/s to km/h by dividing by 1000 and multiplying by 3600, maybe that'll help :)

miszu: you don't need to divide

JordiV: if i multiply by 3.6 i'm using float's again (i'm still a student so it's possible imiss something obvious

miszu: don't multiply by 3.6

miszu: think of.. in high school how you deal with fractions multiplication and division

miszu: so you can keep whole numbers

miszu: did it click a bell? ;)

JordiV: Alright :grin: thanks for the help! i'll try it out :sunglasses:

MSmits: Hey, anyone want to play a Q-learned game of octapawn. Takes about 1-2 min to train in the browser and then you can play it

struct: sure MSmits

MSmits: https://trinket.io/python/c673de5c0f?outputOnly=true&runOption=run

jacek: Q-learny by whom

MSmits: by itself

struct: Also when you have some free time i would like to talk with you about HS

MSmits: selfplay

MSmits: hypersonic?

struct: yes

MSmits: i got time now for a few questions

struct: ok, what did you use to store the board?

struct: I havent got much bitboarding experience

MSmits: 128 bit type for c++, but it's basically 2 64 bit

MSmits: well, several of those

MSmits: 128 bit for boxes

struct: how can I store 13x11, in a 128?

PatrickMcGinnisII: MSmits I rewrote my UTTT into MCTS... it did about the same as my older version. I only got 750 sim games, any bit tricks u can think of I might be missing besides bitpacking the board?

MSmits: lemme help struct first here

MSmits: sec, lemme look up my formula

PatrickMcGinnisII: it's all good

MSmits: its pretty complicated

jacek: can i play with black

struct: if its really complicated maybe I can store it other way

miszu: ParticleBeam which lagnguage?

MSmits: nah sorry, but thats a good thing, this game is solved as a win for white jacek

miszu: I can have 16k sims

struct: For example for the board you dont store emtpy cells?

MSmits: i dont store the pillars

struct: the entire grid

PatrickMcGinnisII: I'm rewriting Bandas and seeing how many sims I can get, so I'll be around. U play. ;)

MSmits: ohh i remember now, it's vs code

struct: Wait you dont store the pillars?

struct: How can you know they are there?

MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/dbfafb32-403f-4da2-b700-1d1687caaac5

MSmits: enjoy the amazing formula :P

MSmits: it skips pillars

MSmits: so thats why it fits in 128 bit

struct: hmm, ill need to study it

struct: I thought you used like 3x64ints

ParticleBeam: miszu What language for what?

miszu: so you could use the 128 bit to store your UTTT states?

MSmits: I think this is the reverse operaton struct

MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/44c4a843-5e44-4c55-938b-1c7016042b2a

miszu: ParticleBeam for what you are coding

ParticleBeam: I am currently working with C#

MSmits: miszu it is actually possible to store a full uttt board in 128 bit, but it's extremely complex and not worth it

MSmits: I only do it for my offline meta mcts database

MSmits: saves space

MSmits: also better transpositions

PatrickMcGinnisII: in UTTT I'm not storing the states, just using a depth decay factor and adding the endgame to the first move eval

MSmits: the basic thing to realize is that there are only 8629 miniboards

MSmits: as opposed to 3^9 which is what most people think

struct: thanks MSmits, I had no clue how they were storing stuff in 128 bits

MSmits: yeah i spent a bit of time figuring that one out struct

struct: ok i finally managed to find the winning solution

jacek: a bit of time... i see what you did there

MSmits: :)

struct: for that game

MSmits: cool!

MSmits: I have trouble finding it

MSmits: hexapawn is much easier

MSmits: it only has like 252 nodes in the tree

MSmits: and using brain means you visit like 20 to solve it

Doumaki: helloes, i would like to learn some real AI

Doumaki: am 2cond year computer dev student

PatrickMcGinnisII: Quite a bit of 2d interleaving going on in that HS snippet msmits

MSmits: yeah PatrickMcGinnisII

jacek: i keep trying to go diagonally as in bt :c

MSmits: oh right, it;s not actually like bt. It's like chess

struct: 43422

MSmits: 43422 positions you mean?

Doumaki: what are u talking abt?

MSmits: several things at once sorry Doumaki

struct: I meant solution for octapawn

MSmits: Ohhhh

MSmits: lemme try it

struct: oh it doesnt play always the same?

MSmits: it's still learning

MSmits: from you

struct: oh nice

Doumaki: am working on this /ide/puzzle/factorial-vs-exponential

MSmits: yeah i have a hexapawn version that also learns from you, but it doesnt self train

MSmits: so it's just learning by playing vs you

MSmits: this octopawn does both

MSmits: doumaki thats a puzzle right

Doumaki: yepp

struct: So the learning is only saved on my browser right?

MSmits: yeah

struct: very good msmits

MSmits: i tried a 5 pawn version

MSmits: it took almost 1GB of memory

MSmits: to fully train

MSmits: still solved as white

struct: how long?

MSmits: half an hour or so

Doumaki: wait a second

Doumaki: u guys actuammy train AI s?

miszu: MSmits yeah I won

MSmits: cool :)

miszu: took me a while to find a combinations

jacek: and it's Q table?

MSmits: it's a giant python dictionary

MSmits: key = board 1 + board 2 + move origin + move destination

MSmits: it stores a score between -1 and 1

MSmits: and uses simple learning rate formula

MSmits: so no fancy NN of course. This is intended for my AI course. I'm testing it tomorrow with 2 students that are far ahead

jacek: Doumaki yah, its AI training

jacek: i never actually fully understood "policy" function training, i only optimize value funcion

miszu: MSmits for my UTTT I used lookup table for all possible moves and random moves for the small boards. Any advice for bigger board what approach should I do?

MSmits: jacek I never used it either, before

MSmits: I guess it only matters on transpositions, as you can get to the same state by multiple routes

MSmits: combining the state + move prevents some problems that happen with transpositions

tomatoes: bigger board is small board

MSmits: miszu you need to write a search

struct: MSmits also I have one last questions sorry, VS does not have int128?

struct: I tried to find but couldnt

MSmits: it doesn't

MSmits: this is the only bot i coded in VS code

struct: ah ok, its no problem

miszu: well I am doing MCTS but right now I do only 16k sims. I am writing unit tests for my game engine because something is off there. But I also want to optimize and get rid of vectors. How to get all possible moves but returning an array and somehow knowing # of moves

MSmits: with a horribly configured IDE, mostly no intellisense

struct: ill use wsl2 to use gcc

MSmits: hmm

MSmits: I might be the wrong guy to ask, i use a pretty far out way to generate moves and such

MSmits: there are simpler ways that are probably just as good

MSmits: hard to test

jacek: miszu well i use lookup table for small board as well.

MSmits: yeah i have had versions that do that

MSmits: it's fine

jacek: as for bigger board i 'concatenate' the possible moves

miszu: jacek small board is easy

jacek: bigger board moves happen rarely anyway

darkhorse64: You have been misse MSmits; you have a queue of at least three people eager to get knowlege from you

darkhorse64: *missed

PatrickMcGinnisII: rofl

MSmits: yeah it seems so lol, hi darkhorse64

miszu: but bigger board, it's like.. you need to check where last was played and then add all moves

miszu: so couple of conditions

MSmits: yeah it's painful miszu

jacek: yes, thats what i do

miszu: jacek are you legendary or no?

MSmits: it helps to put in some heuristics to make this move less likely

miszu: because I am legendary now

jacek: yeah im in legend

MSmits: because it's bad to give the opponent a free move anyway

miszu: do you have a method that returns a list of all possible moves or no?

MSmits: (most of the time)

MSmits: I don't make lists no

MSmits: I think i just iterate over them

PatrickMcGinnisII: in uttt you almost want to just minmax the smallboard wins

MSmits: as i create them

MSmits: PatrickMcGinnisII i tried that, it's bad

miszu: minmax is slow

miszu: I want to use vanilla mcts

MSmits: well not that, the eval function is bad

MSmits: vanilla mcts works great

miszu: yeah eval is not obvious

jacek: miszu well yes. i have 9 boards in my Board class

miszu: but for mcts you need to keep track of all moves

PatrickMcGinnisII: well I'm only Mcing 750 sims in 100ms, that's freaking slow

miszu: and it's a pain to keep track of

MSmits: yeah PatrickMcGinnisII i think research shows minimax is more effective with low calc time

jacek: hm? i just make move and undo move

MSmits: mcts scales better with faster cpu

miszu: jacek how you iterate over all children?

miszu: how you store children?

PatrickMcGinnisII: my small board book and large board library performed just as well as the mcts with 1/10th of the exec time

MSmits: I have a giant object pool

MSmits: children already exist

MSmits: they are just indexed to

MSmits: 700 mb of nodes

miszu: i get your ideas but can't picture the implementation

jacek: likewise. my game tree is just 'pointers' to the moves pool

MSmits: so when i make children I say: Your children are at index 125732 and there are 8 of them

MSmits: so that's 2 integers

MSmits: makes for tiny nodes

miszu: in your node, do you have an object for your game engine?

miszu: my game engine can do sims and all the moves

miszu: and calculations of win/loss/draws

jacek: the node is simple - wins, visits, list of children, move

jacek: what do you mean object for game engine

MSmits: I only have a Node

PatrickMcGinnisII: simple things like whether to use static or not can +/- your code spped by 10-15%

MSmits: no other objects

miszu: I have a struct called GameEngine. It is responsible to keep the state of the game and you can apply moves() play random moves() and simulate till outcone()

PatrickMcGinnisII: er speed

PatrickMcGinnisII: game extends board i would think

miszu: I have SmallBoard, Board which contains 9 SmallBoards and GameEngine which contains 1 Board

miszu: and then Node which contains 1 GameEngine

MSmits: btw miszu, for uttt i dont store the state on the node

MSmits: my node has the move only

miszu: ok but how can you simulate then?

MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/694cdd6b-61a6-4ffd-8f33-a831756786dd

MSmits: ignore that zerochild thingy

PatrickMcGinnisII: u don't have to store alot of stuff, just pass a couple things on node creation

tomatoes: play while traverse

PatrickMcGinnisII: that's alot for 1 node MSmits

miszu: yeah but how can you keep track of the state of the game of that node?

MSmits: not a lot of bytes though PatrickMcGinnisII

AntiSquid: isNeutered would be a shorter variable name

jacek: bonus? status?

MSmits: status is solved -1,0, 1

ZarthaxX: jacek what did you do in breakthrough to be so far away?

MSmits: bonus is a bonus i add for causing free moves and such (= actually a penalty)

MSmits: its a bonus on selection

jacek: heuristic?

MSmits: yeah

jacek: ZarthaxX NN

struct: hacked referee

ZarthaxX: NN for what part?

jacek: for eval

PatrickMcGinnisII: not in uttt, but in other games I make one big nodelist and like MSm said, just store the indexes as pointers in the nodes themselves

jacek: used in jacekmax (or MCTS w/ ept)

ZarthaxX: jacekmax is a minmax of your own? :P

ZarthaxX: impressive

ZarthaxX: nice results

MSmits: it's UCT guided minimax

MSmits: best first basically

AntiSquid: which model was it ? some alphazero ? jacek

MSmits: works nicely

jacek: most of stuff is in the eval, it could be used in minimax as well

MSmits: yeah, you can do that jacek, EPT eval does not translate to minimax well

ZarthaxX: guided minmax???

MSmits: yeah, so not one depth

miszu: so you store just the move but where you store the actual state of the game?

ZarthaxX: you mean in the way it explores?

MSmits: but variable depth like mcts

ZarthaxX: mmm

ZarthaxX: wait what

MSmits: you backpropagate in minmax fashion

ZarthaxX: isnt it like mcts then ?

jacek: AntiSquid nah, feed board state into NN and use output as eval

ZarthaxX: ah,ok

MSmits: no, mcts adds scores

MSmits: this one replaces

ZarthaxX: mmmmmmmmmmm

PatrickMcGinnisII: in bandas i just seem to grasp how to do the move transformations bitwise for up and down

ZarthaxX: okey

ZarthaxX: i need to check it

PatrickMcGinnisII: er can't

Moctrof: Someone is strong for objet oriented design pattern and things like this ? I have a question not related to coding game

jacek: yes, the only difference

AntiSquid: homing minimax

MSmits: PatrickMcGinnisII it's painful yeah

AntiSquid: oof lag? suddenly i didn't see any new message for a while

jacek: ZarthaxX https://www.codingame.com/playgrounds/55004/best-first-minimax-search-with-uct

MSmits: i even transform the board so it sits in the corner, on ever move

AntiSquid: and then it flooded

PatrickMcGinnisII: rotate the bitmatrix 90 degrees and go with the left/right transformations?

MSmits: that way i can use the bitboard as a lookup for an endgame bok

MSmits: book

ZarthaxX: thanks jacek :*

MSmits: PatrickMcGinnisII I just iteratively push

MSmits: until nothing moves anymore

MSmits: so all dudes get pushed, if some dudes overlap, i do it again for those

MSmits: until no overlap

MSmits: while loop

ZarthaxX: MSmits i liked your python thingy btw

ZarthaxX: but bot doesnt play first

MSmits: thanks

ZarthaxX: :rofl:

MSmits: yeah so you're guaranteed the whin

MSmits: win

MSmits: except you dont, cuz its still better :P

MSmits: until you play enough games

PatrickMcGinnisII: hmmm, like i know its sloppy, but I'm trying to get rid of the char board that i have now

MSmits: wanna see my bandas node?

PatrickMcGinnisII: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/3e81a4a3-6696-4bd3-829f-87d780828c37

PatrickMcGinnisII: that

ZarthaxX: php?

PatrickMcGinnisII: that is a down transformation

jacek: :scream:

PatrickMcGinnisII: it's slow AF

MSmits: wow

MSmits: you're awesome for being able to read that :P

AntiSquid: char board @_@

PatrickMcGinnisII: yea it's garbage, but it plays

MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/13b4e19b-810d-4922-8b9b-0930ed68d5db

MSmits: i store the boards on the node

MSmits: cuz it's not much info

MSmits: all boards have 4 children so you can leave out the childmax also

AntiSquid: i am just looking at all the $$$$$ while trying to process the code PatrickMcGinnisII

MSmits: just index

AntiSquid: i never get used to the $ all over the place

PatrickMcGinnisII: i hate it because it reminds me of BASIC, puke ... but it's so easy to code

MSmits: easier than python?

jacek: my eval for bandas https://hastebin.com/mulopopazi

jacek: sill easier than php

PatrickMcGinnisII: PY drives me nutz, It likes wants to truncate my floats when i don't want it to

MSmits: lol

PatrickMcGinnisII: while loop, hmm

MSmits: i have one of those Chinese strings as well jacek, but for me it's an endgame book

AntiSquid: php isn't hard just hard to read if you don't use it regularly

PatrickMcGinnisII: jacek, google translated your hastebin... wth

MSmits: PatrickMcGinnisII python sure has its quirks, but i picked it up easily

PatrickMcGinnisII: Lost and destructive, victorious, victorious, victorious, victorious, victorious, victorious, victorious, afflicted, afflicted, afflicted, ....

jacek: thats bandas allright

MSmits: rofl

MSmits: PatrickMcGinnisII it's a compressed neural network i am guessing

MSmits: apparently it's pretty dramatic

AntiSquid: afflicted by the urge for victory

AntiSquid: or yearning

MSmits: wanna do my endgame book too PatrickMcGinnisII ?

PatrickMcGinnisII: is it chinese or danish or german?

**PatrickMcGinnisII chcukles

MSmits: 겆푪䟨킎췎ᇘ㘰䘊䘊

MSmits: it's the first part of it

MSmits: dunno what language

PatrickMcGinnisII: says it's koreean

struct: you have opening book for othello right?

MSmits: i do struct

AntiSquid: no it has korean mixed with chinese in it

PatrickMcGinnisII: yea, that's more like it MSmits, pure binary gibberish

AntiSquid: first is a korean sylabe, then some random ascii, then chinese and then korean

MSmits: yeah, when people ask me if I speak Chinese or Korean, I say only at the end of a game

PatrickMcGinnisII: one word is "Pan"

MSmits: Peter Pan?

struct: it speaks

struct: Its trying to send a message

jacek: thats where you fry your seeds

PatrickMcGinnisII: then "Thousands

AntiSquid: .this is what google translate gave me when i removed the hangul bits: Sang sang sang sang

MSmits: oh right, maybe my oware bot says more pan

PatrickMcGinnisII: this could take all day

PatrickMcGinnisII: "Pan Thousand Spit"

MSmits: oh no nvm it doesnt even use unicode

PatrickMcGinnisII: i give up

MSmits: just numbers 0 to 5

MSmits: with spaces even... os badly compressed

MSmits: so

PatrickMcGinnisII: the next word shoud be dead.... and si it would equal P.T.S.D.

MSmits: i wouldnt mind pasting more of my bandas endgame book, but my VS crashes half the time i try to touch it

AntiSquid: Qian qi qian qian

MSmits: the string is too long

PatrickMcGinnisII: end game PTSD that gives you PTSD

AntiSquid: to me it gives: 푪킎췎ᇘ => pyolpkuinhchwekkᇘ => Wow (English translation) :D

AntiSquid: which obviously has to be inaccurate

PatrickMcGinnisII: I think i remember you saying you preprocess best endgames, that would save alot of time

Bikoko: should I learn java or js for backend bros?

AntiSquid: 푪킎췎 = puffiness in korean, MSmits :P

AntiSquid: i suggest shaving your head

MSmits: lol, i do this already

PatrickMcGinnisII: I'll be puffy tomorrow, Thanksgiving

AntiSquid: Bikoko what do you want to achieve?

AntiSquid: and what do you want to do .

Bikoko: I want to be a backend developer

PatrickMcGinnisII: Americans: any excuse to pig out Everyone else: wth

AntiSquid: uhm ugh agh ... well C++ could help just as much ... what matters is what the company that you want to work for uses

PatrickMcGinnisII: js....frontend ... C# backend, heh

MSmits: on thanksgiving, all Americans are backend developers

PatrickMcGinnisII: I bought 10lbs. of prime rib, gonna take like 9 hours to cook

Bikoko: I want to work in a bank

AntiSquid: is thanksgiving banned in america ? lol seen some angry message on social media

AntiSquid: then research your local banks or whatever banks you want

MSmits: lol AntiSquid, what corner do the algorithms put you. That's a fox new conspiracy :P

tomatoes: cobol

Bikoko: thank bros

PatrickMcGinnisII: i remember doing cobol III, yea banks love that shiz

MSmits: basically the CDC discourages travel on thanksgiving to prevent spread of covid, is all

AntiSquid: fox news conspiracy? all main stream media is under the same blanket

AntiSquid: idk how much is true of it, i don't live in the US, lockdowns are real though

AntiSquid: UK is in a new lockdown till 4th of december or so

MSmits: mostly it's 3 camps nowadays, mainstream center/left which includes cnn msnbc and others, then fox right, then extreme right

PatrickMcGinnisII: there's like a dozen of us pigging out and hitting the pool

MSmits: extreme right is OAN and newsmax

MSmits: definitely not all on the same blanket

AntiSquid: well i don't watch either, all shit imo

MSmits: it's pretty bad

MSmits: the political bias varies, but the sensation bias is worst

AntiSquid: and fox news when i checked it was all over the place

PatrickMcGinnisII: don't go to Parler.com, holy crap there are some nutz on there

AntiSquid: worse than twitter?

BoBot: if I did not know, I would have thought parler.com is a gay dating site

MSmits: fox news has somewhat neutral news hosts and pretty far right opinion hosts

PatrickMcGinnisII: oh it's ALL alt-right

MSmits: it depends on what show you watch

jacek: newsmax?

MSmits: watch tucker carlson or sean hannity for some pretty extreme, crazy stuff

MSmits: or watch chris wallace for... mostly just news

MSmits: some what right oriented, but no lies

AntiSquid: uhm i doubt i can rely on anything there

PatrickMcGinnisII: example of parler : "COLORADO PROUD BOYS LEADER DEAL WITH ANTIFA BLM RIOTERS BY SLAPPING THE PHONE OUT OF HIS HANDS "

MSmits: probably not "rely" but thats relative

MSmits: jacek newsmax is a growing channel that just tripled in size because Trump hated on fox

MSmits: cuz you know, he lost and fox admits that

MSmits: (mostly)

AntiSquid: i didn't try parler, all i know is it's supposedly lacking censorship, which is getting really annoying to watch on twitter / reddit / facebook . but i guess it makes sense, right wingers would go to parler if they are banned on twitter

TimberStalker: interesting conversation

PatrickMcGinnisII: FB doesn't support a free internet, but doesn't want to pay taxes ... so i try out all the new social media platforms

AntiSquid: i've seen vids of crazy BLM / ANTIFA ... less of crazy proud boys, they exist, but they don't burn buildings down

MSmits: the critical part is that FB is not a news platform, people try to use it that way and then complain when they censor people for lying on it

MSmits: its a company

MSmits: they can do whatever they want

MSmits: twitter same

AntiSquid: not really, they are supposed to act neutral

MSmits: they dont have to

MSmits: no obligation at all

TimberStalker: Theres a big problem with censorship though.

TimberStalker: All you do is embolden the people you censor

PatrickMcGinnisII: Well they censor stuff that doesn't fit their agenda... they label alot of Truth as "fake" and dangerous. So I hate that

BoBot: in what way are they "supposed to"? am I supposed to act neutral? as a private citizen? when does my right to be biased end? how large does my platform/company be?

MSmits: what truth?

BoBot: have to be*

BoBot: before I am not allowed to be biased?

MSmits: facebook only censors because of their reputation

meh1001: The issue with them censoring stuff is that they are a company, but they are claiming the lack of liability for content due to being a public forum

MSmits: after all, genocide was commited through facebook

PatrickMcGinnisII: It's the 6 degrees of freedom problem... someone you don't know might get offended randomly

AntiSquid: they get some benefits like tax cuts or somesuch, didn't read much about it, but there's something they profit off under the guise of just being platforms for social interaction and they breach this by taking sides MSmits

MSmits: kinda gets you in the mood for some censoring

meh1001: so they can be a company, only allow what they want, but be liable for what they do allow

meh1001: or they can be a public forum and suck it up when terrible people say things they disagre with

meh1001: but you can't be a public forum, and censor views you disagree with, and remain logically consistent

MSmits: meh1001 its not about agreement mostly

MSmits: it's about people saying things are fact when they are verifyably not facts

MSmits: like "massive fraud" in US election

AntiSquid: but either way twitter / facebook got very political about it

BoBot: but-but...the reality has a well known liberal bias ;)

meh1001: Well I mean, I don't think anyone argues that picturs of people murdering other people hsould be taken down... the argument is people believe the censorship happens based on alignment with one side or the other

MSmits: lol

PatrickMcGinnisII: CG has mods....just sayin', self policing is a thing... like mIRC back in the day... you make groups and kick out anyone you don't like

MSmits: yeah i see it as moderators also

MSmits: they have rules

MSmits: you agree with them

BoBot: @meh1001 if one side likes facts more than the other side, the bias might seem unfair

BoBot: "damn truth bias" :/

BoBot: getting political fast over hear :D

meh1001: I agree confirmation is bias, but I don't think you can argue that facebook is a platform for nothing but facts..

BoBot: already feeling the heat

meh1001: confirmation bias is 100% a thing** I mean

iWillKickYourAss: GUY SENSEI

AntiSquid: not me PatrickMcGinnisII, i mean say what you want to say, but repetitive messages or random stuff like swearing out of nowhere, what's the point of allowing that?

MSmits: the problem in the US is mostly that if one side lies 1 time out of a 100 and the other lies half the time, everyone is a liar. There's no sense of degree

AntiSquid: the other folks on here are more extreme than me imo, they kept kicking some trol with a pikachu avatar, i thought it's funny / amuzing ... so depends

MSmits: AntiSquid, if trump was a random guy and came on here talking like he does, he'd be gone in 5 minutes

AntiSquid: not because of me

AntiSquid: same for biden

MSmits: definitely because of you. Or do you generally keep players around that repeatedly say the same stuff in all caps

MSmits: making no sense

PatrickMcGinnisII: My 75 year old father got put in FB jail for sharing political satire, sometimes stuff is just funny, people r too serious. And the dumbing down of society is real.

BoBot: I had a comparison for that once - people were kicked off a feminist group for talking about issues in an obviously anti-feminist angle, and people cried censorship...and I thought - if someone came on a soccer forum and instead of discussing soccer started shitting on soccer and saying that basketball is the best game in the world and soccer fans are idiots...should they be removed from the forum?

MSmits: not if they did it in the general discussion forum in their own thread

BoBot: comparison fitting here - if your forum is made for (mainly) discussing a topic - in CG-s case - bot programming - then spam is obviously going to hurt that goal

TimberStalker: Big difference between a political group and a soccer group.

MSmits: the fans are not that different though, these days

AntiSquid: i mean hate trump w/e, do need better candidates, but how the hell does everyone fail to take into consideration biden is a dementia patient with 2 brain surgeries. dementia patients can deteriorate very fast ... still i see people saying "i still rather vote biden", well in fact no, you're voting for whoever is going to replace him, Kamala

MSmits: AntiSquid you're right, biden is definitely mentally not as fit as a president should be

MSmits: but even if you compared him with trump on just that front

PatrickMcGinnisII: hey, sometimes you just got to unfriend people, even family... we are responsible for filtering/blocking our own feed, so who gives a damn if people are sharing links to movies like "Vaxxed"

MSmits: biden comes out far ahead

AntiSquid: uhm, he might be a vegetable in bed tomorrow .

BoBot: I am fine with people assuming they voted for Harris :D

MSmits: so might trump be

BoBot: I prefer Harris to Biden

AntiSquid: see? you are making the same mistake

PatrickMcGinnisII: youtube whacks documentaries... because of bias too

MSmits: he cant form coherent sentences almost

AntiSquid: you never worked with dementia patients, they can really deteriorate very badly :/

meh1001: I am glad no matter our political leanings, we all like to write code together xD

MSmits: AntiSquid, my point is, while biden might get dementia, that's all that might happen. Trump is a disaster on 100 fronts

MSmits: including the same one

AntiSquid: that's some heavy bias

MSmits: i dont see why

MSmits: just pick any random tweet

MSmits: and think about it

BoBot: wait why do you assume Biden has dementia? do you have medical records?

MSmits: nah i dont assume

MSmits: i just see he's an old man

MSmits: and that's risky

MSmits: he stutters so he seems worse than he is really

AntiSquid: no assumption

TimberStalker: I mean, you dont really need to assume. You can kinda just see it

PatrickMcGinnisII: people vote party line... and it's sad, the 2 party system is broken and an illussion of control over our own lives... corps. run the show

AntiSquid: it's known

TimberStalker: 2 party system needs to die

BoBot: so the same risk as with every old person being picked? you do know Trump was the oldest president ever?

BoBot: @AntiSquid known by whom

meh1001: I agree with that, 2 party is a sham. It's like the illusion of choice

MSmits: BoBot yeah it's the same risk

iWillKickYourAss: let's clash guys

iWillKickYourAss: nobody here can beat me

AntiSquid: biden is older

MSmits: but trump also has some personality disorders that have nothing to do with age

MSmits: thats the thing

MSmits: if you cant see the extreme narcisism, you havent been paying attention

PatrickMcGinnisII: Did you know that if the Queen of England made a statemtn to the effect of "Americans need to overthrow the govt." We would overthrow the govt.

AntiSquid: what?

MSmits: btw biden is physically healthier

AntiSquid: i don't see how that's possible, americans are proud of their independence

BoBot: @AntiSquid no seriously, if something like that was confirmed, a source should be easy to find - you should have statements from his personal doctors on public record... otherwise it is bullshit, because peoples medical records are guarded pretty tightly in the US from what I have heard

MSmits: google trump running

MSmits: and biden running

AntiSquid: it's bullshit because it's on video and he stutters ?

MSmits: see which one gives you hits

PatrickMcGinnisII: Elizabeth II geets mad respect here, especially since netflix is airing "The Crown"

AntiSquid: i don't know anyone who doesn't acknowledge he has dementia

BoBot: @AntiSquid anyone "diagnosing" people from their public appearances is unreliable, EVEN IF they are professionals in their field

AntiSquid: you can see the signs and the 2 brain surgeries are fact

BoBot: @AntiSquid YES, you cannot be honestly serious about diagnosing people from their public speeches?!

TimberStalker: Didnt biden also pop a blood vessel in his eye during a debate or something?

AntiSquid: and then the only thing that says he doesn't have it is the media

MSmits: what i dont understand though AntiSquid, what is your alternative to the media?

BoBot: wait which other sources of Biden's medical history do you have

BoBot: looooool

MSmits: the media are far from perfect, but pretty much any alternative is worse

PatrickMcGinnisII: They've tried twice really hard to tax the internet, they suck, we pay 3x the going rate for access than most people

BoBot: dude :D I think that Trump is a narcissist, but I cannot claim that he has a Narcissistic Personality Disorder, because I do not have access to his medical records, and that disorder hardly ever gets diagnosed, because the people who have it do not seek help

MSmits: same BoBot

MSmits: but in this case, he reaaaally flaunts the narcisism

MSmits: it's not subtle at all

PatrickMcGinnisII: Alot of Trumps policies aren't THAT bad comparitavely, but his leadership is sh*t and he's just another profiteer like the rest of them

BoBot: mental health is complex, diagnosing people if you are not a professional in a clinical setting is damaging to the society, because it hurts and trivializes the already badly stigmatized problems

AntiSquid: you can think what you want, but biden having mental issues isn't false

MSmits: they're also not really trumps policies. I never understood the urge to ascribe any policy of a government to its leader

BoBot: lol yea, why do people still think we have kings

PatrickMcGinnisII: my father is a PhD brain-picker, he often diagnosis Trump as Narcicist, the pros know... I say "it takes one to know one" lol

BoBot: even POTUS is a figurehead

BoBot: there is no way anyone could actually lead a country on their own

BoBot: his power is mostly symbolic, and is why picking people from the same demographic into power is also part of the symbolism

MSmits: AntiSquid i do think he has mental issues, but it's pretty average for someone aged 77

MSmits: if you know anyone that age in your family, you know they aren't all there, the way they were at 50

PatrickMcGinnisII: BoBot sorry but the lines between executive/judicial/legislative have been blurred to the point that the Potus almost has complete autonomy

AntiSquid: depends MSmits

PatrickMcGinnisII: Biden just does stuff slower and can't 'keep up' witht he fast talkers

BoBot: I am not saying executive is not powerful in the US, I am saying that POTUS does not hold the power, the administration does

AntiSquid: some are more lucid

AntiSquid: some less

MSmits: you should watch some clips of the way trump talked when he was younger and compare it to now

AntiSquid: some even work in their 80s

MSmits: his vocabulary shrunk by a factor of 4 or something

TimberStalker: He does that intentionally

BoBot: Bush did not go to war, Cheney and Rumsfeld went

TimberStalker: Its easier for people to understand if you dont use complicated words

MSmits: TimberStalker partially maybe, but it would shine through at times that he can speak "smarter", but he really never does anymore

BoBot: lol - when one guy stutters, he has dementia, if the other guy fumbles, he is a mastermind

struct: he should use paint like icebox did to explain beam search to me

struct: i understood it in 2 minutes

AntiSquid: wait ... that's derailing it, who said the other is a mastermind ? huh

MSmits: I've seen trump rant on for 10 minutes about his toilet not flushing :P

TimberStalker: a lot of supporters do

TimberStalker: AntiSquad

PatrickMcGinnisII: Ummm, Trump has like 100 criminal charges waiting to be filed on him in NY once he leaves office.

BoBot: I actually think he is quite funny, he has quite nice zingers

MSmits: he has some things in common with stand up comedians yeah

BoBot: mostly hurtful name calling, but the one where he went after Kim Jong Un's weight

PatrickMcGinnisII: he even said he might have to leaave the US

MSmits: jokingly, but it's true

AntiSquid: will he ?

MSmits: he may have to

MSmits: Biden cant even pardon him

MSmits: it's NY state charges

PatrickMcGinnisII: His campaign manager went to prison for election fraud...then he won, then he pardoned him...he lives near me...the dude is an ass

BoBot: Biden has said he wont

BoBot: pardon Trump...but that does not mean he won't

MSmits: if he does it doesnt matter

MSmits: they cant pardon state charges

BoBot: yea I know about state charges

TimberStalker: Why the hell would Biden pardon Trump?

MSmits: only federal ones

MSmits: it's tradition actually

BoBot: because he was convinced it was better for the country

PatrickMcGinnisII: After T attacked Biden's family in the debate, no way Biden gives him any slack

MSmits: pardon your predecessor to gain peace

lazily.evaluated: STFU\

PatrickMcGinnisII: personal attacks have no place there

lazily.evaluated: PLEASE STFU

Shreklock: biden cheated

lazily.evaluated: u guys can't code

Shreklock: i helped him

PatrickMcGinnisII: rofl

lazily.evaluated: whatsoever

BoBot: lol synchronized trolls

AntiSquid: see? this is not allowed on CG chat

BoBot: are you in the same room?

MSmits: if not, get one

Shreklock: ?

PatrickMcGinnisII: As long as yall support a free internet, we good. ;)

MSmits: #troll-room

MSmits: click it

MSmits: enjoy

AntiSquid: too random, too nonsensical Shreklock

Shreklock: pardon?

AntiSquid: you're pardoned

PatrickMcGinnisII: Musk launched more Starlink sats yesterday

PatrickMcGinnisII: trying ti get into Beta

TimberStalker: I thought starlink already works?

meh1001: I wonder if that will be available to consumers, or will it be reserved only for commercial/municipal customers..

BoBot: worldwide Internet coverage sound neat, and a bit sci-fi

meh1001: I'd love to live in the middle of nowhere long as I could still work remote

TimberStalker: Its literally meant for normal people who cant get internet

BoBot: I thought the goal was a bit humanitarian

BoBot: well, the thought at least :D

BoBot: if you think of Internet access as a basic right

TimberStalker: It still costs money.

BoBot: so does food

MSmits: anyway, I am getting some sleep. Gn all :)

meh1001: interesting, I though I had read it was restricted, but maybe that was just the beta and not the end goal

AntiSquid: didn't really look much into starlink but from what i understand it's a world wide web of satelites communicating with each other ... how will they avoid collision with newly launched rockets from other countries?

TimberStalker: End goal of starlink is to provide internet to anyone anywhere

BoBot: @AntiSquid the space is big... but there have been concerns raised about space debris

PatrickMcGinnisII: locally, the I.P., is basically a monopoly...$70/mo. is the cheapest

BoBot: and other issues

AntiSquid: yes debris too

TimberStalker: AntiSquid, they plan this all out. Plus, its extremely hard to actually hit a satellite.

PatrickMcGinnisII: starlink is $100/mo.

BoBot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome

AntiSquid: isn't american internet run by a monopoly ? AT&T ?

BoBot: this is scary, otoh thinking about it in a simulation seems kinda cool :D

PatrickMcGinnisII: IPs won't run fiber optic, so we have to do something

TimberStalker: I get internet from spectrum.

PatrickMcGinnisII: soectrum, yup...effective monopoly that i have to reset the router twice a day

PatrickMcGinnisII: er spectrum

TimberStalker: Also, did you know that there are massive cables that go through the ocean connecting the continents.

AntiSquid: yes

PatrickMcGinnisII: We need fiber optic everywhere

PatrickMcGinnisII: I worked on Nasa property

AntiSquid: really?

PatrickMcGinnisII: space debris is a thing

PatrickMcGinnisII: and it sucks

meh1001: We need deflector shields stat

AntiSquid: what exactly was your involvement PatrickMcGinnisII?

meh1001: or I guess we should start with polarized hull plating right

PatrickMcGinnisII: the starlink launches are actually pretty clean, they know the bits that have to come off will decay and burn up

PatrickMcGinnisII: the Chinese, russian, and even japanese are more prone to leaving space junk than we are

BoBot: the one collision Chinese created on purpose....major dick move...

AntiSquid: and there might be more in the future

PatrickMcGinnisII: AntiSquid it was a long time ago, I basically helped people get PhDs. And I installed stuff at the air force bases.

AntiSquid: cool . what happened next ? i mean would have tried to get more involved, but that's me

Random_Stuffs: you guys are old

PatrickMcGinnisII: After 911 it wasn't fun anymore, got tired of the politics and 50 calibur gun checkpoints

PatrickMcGinnisII: in 1988, the year I left college the first time, there was a hiring freeze at Nasa... you couldn't get a job pushing a broom at Nasa

Random_Stuffs: you are 48?

Random_Stuffs: 50?

PatrickMcGinnisII: yes, i just turned 50

TimberStalker: Damn. And im not even 18 yet.

PatrickMcGinnisII: oops 1992

AntiSquid: mhm, i remember all TV channels displayed black screen for 5 minutes to have few moment of silence for americans who died in 911 ... ya i was watching TV a long time ago ... all channels except for some country music one

BoBot: yea I was like...you left college at 18? :D

Random_Stuffs: lol

AntiSquid: US gets a lot of attention

BoBot: US has too much power :P

BoBot: attention follows

PatrickMcGinnisII: I did work at Harris and Northrop and got to see alot of machines mfg. parts for planes and helicopters... those companies are all about the benjamins...but not for their employees

TimberStalker: "the benjamins"

TimberStalker: what?

AntiSquid: China gaining a lot of influence and power :thinking:

PatrickMcGinnisII: $

TimberStalker: oh

BoBot: I prefer the EU, but in global politics China is fine as well

TimberStalker: Thats case china has over a billion people

TimberStalker: lots of valuable consumers

AntiSquid: fine as well ? i'm worried

BoBot: lol that is what I thought would happen - such a controversial statement right :D

AntiSquid: worried about china, not about your feelings lol

TimberStalker: You know if you say something bad about chana anywhere in the world, they can legally arrest you if you enter the country?

BoBot: China's foreign policy is pretty non-interventionist...I hate how they treat their own citizens though

TimberStalker: China*

AntiSquid: they have some extradition agreements even with some EU countries, if their citizens speak ill about them while in those countries they can be sent back to china

PatrickMcGinnisII: Imagin a free internet in china. Almost went to war over Pacific trade routes...so wierd...it's all boutt he $

therealbeef: got compilation time down from 120s to 72s :sweat:

AntiSquid: for now their politics don't affect us much, but that might change

BoBot: yea, I would hope they will not start intervening as much as some other global powers do...

AntiSquid: actually they do affect us .

AntiSquid: i mean they're involved everywhere

BoBot: no boots on the ground, I cannot deny economic influence of course...

AntiSquid: yes economic influence and i am sure they try or do actually spy on the rest ofthe world just like the NSA wherever they can

TimberStalker: China has been building a very strong military.

AntiSquid: it's a slow start: Hong Kong -> Taiwan -> who knows what's next

BoBot: do you prefer unilateral power?

BoBot: less conflict ofcourse

BoBot: but do you think USA is fit to police the world?

BoBot: I am more and more sus of that

AntiSquid: no

BoBot: actually, I have been sus of that...always?

AntiSquid: USA did their share of damage

BoBot: the question is - is China gaining military power bad then?

TimberStalker: I would say yes. They are much more open on limiting human rights.

BoBot: (I think it is still, because I am scared of them as well, I just am not 100% sure)

AntiSquid: i expect US to sort of suicide / fall like Rome ... China will just step in to take over if they can

BoBot: I think all countries should demilitarize, and USA should show the lead by not spending trillions on military

BoBot: @AntiSquid that feeling we share

BoBot: fall of Rome sounds very fitting as a comparison

therealbeef: Rome situation was a bit different. They were surrounded by locally strong forces and got eaten bit by bit

therealbeef: USA is interwoven with most of the rest of the world

therealbeef: they go down we all go down

AntiSquid: you could argue the same about china in that case since many things are manufactured there ... if they go down we go down

BoBot: yea, that is why I support as much independence of EU from USA as well

therealbeef: I think they are the best friends we can have at the moment though :-/

PatrickMcGinnisII: most of us in US are 'modern slaves' just like the rest of the world

AntiSquid: i wouldn't count anyone as friend ... it's all about businesses, power, money, influence, etc

therealbeef: true

therealbeef: it shoudl be about winning contests and having fun

AntiSquid: if anything they probably try to make others dependant on them by shutting competition down

TimberStalker: You dont need to shut down competition

TimberStalker: look at china

PatrickMcGinnisII: Our quality of living is only a hair better ... our food is junk, our industry poisons us, we haven't learned how to live in harmony. these people have some good ideas...https://www.thevenusproject.com/

therealbeef: there can be mutual benefit, though, especially if they share values

BoBot: I like that EU has started taking steps towards tech independence

AntiSquid: the air pollution in china is very serious due to their heating system afaik

AntiSquid: (source: chinese people)

PatrickMcGinnisII: close to 3B people still cook over wood

PatrickMcGinnisII: wrap your head around that

therealbeef: and charcoal

PatrickMcGinnisII: ahhh...'open-fires'

TimberStalker: You just accurately described a grill.

therealbeef: I find it interesting how the two major forces (CN, USA) in the world both are ok with exchanging human suffering for economic gain. i think this is EU's 'weakness'

therealbeef: the poverty, despair, if you can close your eyes for that (also politically), it's apparently very beneficial

BoBot: it is weakness only if your eval function only considers economy as something to optimize

BoBot: I do not think all people agree, even in those countries

therealbeef: for sure

AntiSquid: do you think EU is all sunshine and rainbows?

therealbeef: relatively, yes

BoBot: some cynical Wall Street guy asked during Occupy Wall Street - what good have the non 1%ers ever done and he was asked if he liked Beatles? he said yes :D

BoBot: I have tried to find the video of that, unsuccessfully

AntiSquid: how do you feel about Brexit from your country ?

therealbeef: i completely understand Brexit, I wish we had the balls for it in NL

BoBot: the same as I feel about Trump getting elected?

therealbeef: Trump election I also understood / saw it coming :-)

BoBot: maybe "USA having too much power" should be amended to "English-speaking countries having too much influence"

AntiSquid: personally i see downsides in both EU and brexit

PatrickMcGinnisII: Both yall live in better countries than the US imo. So yall debating stuff is kinda ...well...hilarious

AntiSquid: better for how long?

BoBot: I have still seen some weird adoration of the US in the Netherlands from some people which surprised me :D

PatrickMcGinnisII: I've been to the UK (well b4 the invasion), not the netherlands tho

AntiSquid: i am not expecting much good to come after the lockdown period

SandmanSW96: hey all, in the contests, multis, etc, is there a keyboard shortcut/hotkey for "replay in same conditions" ?

AntiSquid: not aware . maybe try ctrl shift enter

PatrickMcGinnisII: I couldn't stand the immigrants if I lived there, other friends in big cities over there are absolutely pissed off about the middle east invasion...oh there i go again, sorry - no politics

SandmanSW96: yeah tried that

AntiSquid: you could use a macro

BoBot: sry what now - the Middle East is invading the UK? I thought it was the other way around :D

BoBot: Tony Blair went to Iraq iirc

SandmanSW96: well if there is no keyboard combo a macro wouldn't work, just keep kicking myself for debugging code and then hit ctrl enter out of habit lol. then DOH once I realize it loads a new situation lol

BoBot: lol "invasion" my ass

therealbeef: Are things in the USA still as bad as they were portayed in The Wire 10-15 years ago?

AntiSquid: google macro editor SandmanSW96

AntiSquid: it would help. a lot with many different things

AntiSquid: not sure, there might even be a browser addon

PatrickMcGinnisII: rofl, yea i need to stay away from politics

PatrickMcGinnisII: The wire?

AntiSquid: or you code one yourself :P

SandmanSW96: well a macro would only work if there is a keyboard shortcut first right?

AntiSquid: no

therealbeef: the tv series about Baltimore from 2004-2009

AntiSquid: you create shortcut through the macro program

BoBot: The Wire is on my watch list - my ex suggested that

SandmanSW96: if it's that much work I will just reach for the mouse and click the damn thing XD

BoBot: should connect to current police brutality discussions pretty well

AntiSquid: it's not .

SandmanSW96: nah I was just wondering about any existing CG ones

SandmanSW96: no big deal

therealbeef: and the current media discussions, and politics discussions actually

AntiSquid: i mean just initial download and recording of your mouse / keyboard / mousclick whatever

SandmanSW96: haha no thanks I prefer not to have keystrokes etc logged

AntiSquid: but afterwards you could just press 1 button to launch the macro

SandmanSW96: not that I am doing anything illegal just meh haha I will just click it manually

SandmanSW96: just easier and faster to type and BLAM ctrl-enter etc

SandmanSW96: or ctrl-shift-enter like in clashes for test all

AntiSquid: ya i understand, not that i am illegally selling stuffed hamsters either hehe

SandmanSW96: just CSR doesn't do the same in multis

SandmanSW96: er CSE

BoBot: thx I did not even use Ctrl+Enter myself, though I think I had at one time

SandmanSW96: *shrugs* lol

SandmanSW96: no worries lol

SandmanSW96: the less I have to take my hands off the keyboard the better

PatrickMcGinnisII: The Wire, hmmm drug epidemic WAS bad 25 years ago, lately not so much - they legalized MJ in so many places. it's not as bad here, I dunno about Baltimore

BoBot: sounds like a feature they could add :P

BoBot: I mean do you not have a legalized drug epidemic now? the opioids?

SandmanSW96: the wire is a prison show

SandmanSW96: if you were in prison (not misdemeanor jail) for marijuana, you had way more than a nickel bag lol

AntiSquid: oh damn it's midnight, good night, was talking too long got stuff to do, but too much to worry about thought i only briefly pop in chat and waste few minutes .

SandmanSW96: but yeah set in baltimore, but here in arizona woot come new years day recrecational is all good

SandmanSW96: I am gonna sit on the front porch, private property, and blaze one for every poor one on earth \m/

BoBot: yea long overdue imo

SandmanSW96: yeah, colorado set it off

SandmanSW96: and whats funny there, it happened like I said it would lol,

BoBot: fucking hell, even caffeine is more addictive imo (from personal experience)

SandmanSW96: they literally said they had more tax dollars to spend as a result than they knew what to spend it on

SandmanSW96: here comes the BOOM, so to speak lol

PatrickMcGinnisII: i took a road trip to Wa,Or,Ca, and Co... did a bit of sampling about 4-5 years ago... all the new states are gonna see... it's all about the $. Fl. made medical legal and the politicians screwed it all up

SandmanSW96: lol I lived in albuquerque nm, about 2 1/2 hours from colorado,

PatrickMcGinnisII: Corps. take over everything.

SandmanSW96: and before it was all scag nasty stuff, seeds and stems mostly, then once colorado legalized it all, the quality up there in northern NM went through the roof

SandmanSW96: I'm just glad tommy chong lived long enough to see it lol

PatrickMcGinnisII: I bought property in Co., piece of crap house... then i found out it was a dry county...so i sold it. Was looking for vacay spot i could rent out, still made a profit... but property prices go thru the roof when rec. hit

SandmanSW96: yeah I woulda hung onto that land

PatrickMcGinnisII: homless in Co and Ca. is a big problem

SandmanSW96: dry or not mountain pine country is prime in the US

BoBot: wtf googled dry county - you still have prohibition laws in the US?! :D

SandmanSW96: Bo even in texas it is city to city

SandmanSW96: lol

SandmanSW96: like in the Dallas metro area, was a while since I was there, but 4 cities all one right after the other,

SandmanSW96: dallas wet, grand prairie dry, arlington wet, ft worth dry

BoBot: omg and now I am reading that there is a constitutional amendment specifically about alcohol

SandmanSW96: all in the same urban area lol I was like wtf?

BoBot: jfc USA :D

PatrickMcGinnisII: Dallas had a huge drug problem, I knew people who moved there...they all dead.

SandmanSW96: alot of major urban areas do, usa or not

SandmanSW96: though I won't lie it is probably worse here

SandmanSW96: meth made st louis and kansas city the murder capitols of the US

PatrickMcGinnisII: people still dying of fentanyl they geet from the dark web...oooh sounds so spooky...

SandmanSW96: oh god yeah we get warning ads on the radio about that crap

SandmanSW96: gimme beer bud and tobacco and I am a happy yank

PatrickMcGinnisII: 22 yr old kid i taught a bunch of stuff to... fentanyl...dead

PatrickMcGinnisII: sad

SandmanSW96: yeah fentanyl sp? is a stupid problem to have

SandmanSW96: at least green is just burning a plant

PatrickMcGinnisII: but try getting a pain-killer from a dr. even tho I'm a broken down old man... nope... BS

IfIHadATail: yeah I had surgery and they wouldn't even give me enough for the pain. it was BS

SandmanSW96: hehe patrick mcginnis I would say to ya like I say at the end of the work day, gonna go home and put some beer on my back

SandmanSW96: sometimes it goes the other way around though

IfIHadATail: and they treated me like a criminal everytime I went to fill my garbage perscription

SandmanSW96: I went to the VA hospital in phoenix for a broken wrist,

PatrickMcGinnisII: MJ is not a cureall, but face it - people need anti-depressants in the F U world

SandmanSW96: they gave me vicodin without even telling me

IfIHadATail: lol

SandmanSW96: next thing I know I am looking up at the sky and bleeding because I smacked my head on a brick window ledge, didn't feel a thing

IfIHadATail: yeah I don't have that problem lol

Car_sad_car: Hello. Is someone have problems with site connection?

SandmanSW96: got back to my apt, looked in the mirror, and I looked like an extra from the walking dead lol

PatrickMcGinnisII: can't get safe stuff... system is broken

IfIHadATail: sorry no dite problems for me

IfIHadATail: site*

SandmanSW96: went BACK to the same sorry VA hospital for stitches

PatrickMcGinnisII: We now live in a DIY community, 'cause you can't get what you need thru the 'system'

SandmanSW96: 2018 sucked ass lol

SandmanSW96: well screw pharmaceuticals for sure

SandmanSW96: I am not even gonna take this damn vaccine when they do put it out

SandmanSW96: and I am not anti vaccine I just don't trust whatever they are up; to

IfIHadATail: don't worry I'll take an extra one for you

IfIHadATail: XD

PatrickMcGinnisII: A set of people dying of cancer wanted to grow their own pot, they were all on fixed incomes. they put a few of them in jail... like they are dying - leave the the f alone

SandmanSW96: lol

SandmanSW96: I would have gotten it by now, might have for all I know

SandmanSW96: patrick yeah for sure

PatrickMcGinnisII: if someone isn't making a profit, they shut that stuff down

SandmanSW96: out here it's remote enough ppl can get away with it at least without any problems

SandmanSW96: haven't gotten mine yet but ex military automatically qualifies you for a medical card in alot of states lol.

PatrickMcGinnisII: they all suck: https://www.raps.org/news-and-articles/news-articles/2020/3/covid-19-vaccine-tracker

IfIHadATail: I live in california so I haven't had tha problem for a long time now :P

SandmanSW96: I look at it like a flu shot,

SandmanSW96: I take the shot, THEN I get sick, no thanks

SandmanSW96: let the high risk ppl have em I will be fine

PatrickMcGinnisII: dispensary stuff is still way expensive

SandmanSW96: yeah it can be

PatrickMcGinnisII: can't even get flower in my county with a med. card...just edibles and tinctures

SandmanSW96: but even before rec was starting to get legalized, out in the borderland it's like jaywalking

IfIHadATail: yeah but so is the cost of getting a misdemeanor :P

IfIHadATail: yeah it was pretty hard to get a cop pissed at you enough to write you up for it

SandmanSW96: nah if you don't have at least an ounce on you in a major urban area in az, new mexico, they don't give a shit

BoBot: yea it is just not worth it in many jurisdictions in EU as well

IfIHadATail: I remember when a cop made my dump mine out and gave me my pipe back :P

PatrickMcGinnisII: look at the ingredients of some of these tinctures... might as well blaze

SandmanSW96: yeah bo for sure, like you cross into utah out here you will probably do months plural with a bowl worth

SandmanSW96: then into nevada and pffft lol they don't care either

PatrickMcGinnisII: You can buy an automatic switchblade in Utah, but not ... nevermind, just funny

IfIHadATail: yeah my buddy went to the river with his not thinking about it and he got in trouble on the nevada side of the river and threw the book at him

IfIHadATail: he was pissed lol

SandmanSW96: lol I was living in south carolina, and still have the switchblade in my center console in my car

SandmanSW96: which turns out, was a no no in SC

SandmanSW96: but I still have and had an AZ plate on my car,

SandmanSW96: so the laws of that state apply if the registration hasn't expired lol

IfIHadATail: lol got lucky :P

Recovery_disaster: my test cases are taking minutes to complete. IS there server maintance ongoing?

SandmanSW96: which means if I had a new mexico current plate,

PatrickMcGinnisII: I can't carry my $400 blade I bought in Utah legally in fla. w/o having my weapons permit on me

PatrickMcGinnisII: smh

SandmanSW96: I could have a loaded 45 on the dashboard and would be good to go :laughing:

SandmanSW96: lol you need a permit for a knife?

CobaltMEN: same here, test cases taking a long time

PatrickMcGinnisII: switchblade, yes

IfIHadATail: ironically I'd proobablly get shot for that

SandmanSW96: hahaha wtf

SandmanSW96: name me one innocent bystander that got hit by a blade (I am sure it happens)

IfIHadATail: lol no but you know how it is

SandmanSW96: but that's ridiculous lol

SandmanSW96: I am kind of biased though, it is still alot of the old west out here

BoBot: @SandmanSW96 maybe in an action movie :D

BoBot: where they actually throw them

SandmanSW96: lol bo one of the things to make an assault rifle illegal is a bayonet mount *facepalm*

PatrickMcGinnisII: same license to carry a 9mm as a switchblade...hmmm

SandmanSW96: name ONE gangbanger who ever used a bayonette lol

PatrickMcGinnisII: all about the $

IfIHadATail: yeah old west by with over population issues XD

SandmanSW96: nah not in the smaller places

SandmanSW96: plus tons of room to grow

PatrickMcGinnisII: Ever chase off someone with a machete? that's legal...rofl

SandmanSW96: but they are turning phoenix into another los angeles ugh

IfIHadATail: lol on reddit a while ago there was someone that posted criminal and the old timey weapons found them

PatrickMcGinnisII: I looked at land in NM, almost bought it too... kinda off grid...didn't buy it... no internet

IfIHadATail: it was hilarious highly doubt I could ever find it again

SandmanSW96: lol been a while since I looked at the actual state statutes, but you wanna know what the ONLY law on the books was in NM the last time i saw, about when it comes to a home invasion?

IfIHadATail: found on them*

SandmanSW96: born/raised mostly in NM btw hehe

PatrickMcGinnisII: Had a friend in Albequerque, had one of them good govt. jobs ... MFr disappeared, never heard/saw of him again

IfIHadATail: no clue

PatrickMcGinnisII: what SandmanSW96?

SandmanSW96: ah shoot, he might have been put on an even better govt job then and had to break ties

SandmanSW96: well ok in NM, the last I saw, about a decade or so ago(and I doubt it changed much),

PatrickMcGinnisII: prolly jumped in a stargate or some shit, lol

SandmanSW96: hahaha never know

IfIHadATail: that suck had I known I had to join the milltary to use a stargate I would have joined ages ago

SandmanSW96: but so there, "property" refers to your home, your land, or your vehicle. and if it is even a rental if it is your residence same rule(s) applied

SandmanSW96: the ONLY law on the books,

SandmanSW96: was that "if it can be determined that the individual is attempting to vacate said property, lethal force is not allowed'

SandmanSW96: in laiman's terms, you can't shoot them in the back, willingly or be "proven" you did lol

IfIHadATail: so basically you can't shoot someone in the back?

IfIHadATail: lol yeah

SandmanSW96: go figure, for all the guns, etc,

SandmanSW96: comparatively it's one of the lowest home invasion rates in the US lol

SandmanSW96: because you are just that STUPID to kick someone's door in out there lol

PatrickMcGinnisII: Threshold common law here. if you shoot them outside...drag them inside, u good.

IfIHadATail: lol RIP

SandmanSW96: lol amen, it's your word against that dumb asshole, oh wait, he can't talk anymore

SandmanSW96: I don't know what may have changed recently,

IfIHadATail: this got pretty daark for codingame chat lol

SandmanSW96: but that was literally the ONLY law on the books

PatrickMcGinnisII: Actually, they have stand your ground law here...they basically made it legal to go snipe hunting

PatrickMcGinnisII: it sure did

SandmanSW96: yeah we kinda have the same thing, but it's just the notion that you are actually in real danger

SandmanSW96: like a guy pulls a knife on you, you can shoot him lol

MadKnight: but what if an unarmed guy pulls a gun on u

SandmanSW96: but just blasting on an unarmed man at a circle K not so much

MadKnight: (that's a reference)

SandmanSW96: lol mad then he ain't unarmed anymore

SandmanSW96: game on lol

MadKnight: tell that to the news

MadKnight: (PM)

SandmanSW96: yeah and the other side of that coin,

BoBot: "I mean what kindofa man would they think I am if I didn't shoot people who touch my stuff?"

SandmanSW96: if a cop is about to pull a gun on you,

MadKnight: PM SandmanSW96

SandmanSW96: do NOT reach for your phone or wallet lol

PatrickMcGinnisII: MadKnight you put the throw away gun in his hand i guess

MadKnight: private msg

SandmanSW96: ah crap mad, I closed it by accident, send again?

PatrickMcGinnisII: MadKnight you trying to hack everyone again?

SandmanSW96: nah just a jpg

SandmanSW96: which I couldn't load lol

BoBot: yea do not trust links from MadKnight

MadKnight: it's a news link

MadKnight: do u know TheDailyCaller?

BoBot: I do not know how he hacked that Moderator sign next to his name

MadKnight: ask icebox

SandmanSW96: lol mad that pic,

SandmanSW96: reminds me of how back in the day toy guns that looked real were banned

SandmanSW96: now airsoft guns look like actual m4's

SandmanSW96: and go figure in a half second or less to decide, real bullets fly

BoBot: "yea, if your gun looks like something that can kill people, it better be able to!"

SandmanSW96: lol if it looks real enough I am not gonna roll the dice and wait to see

MadKnight: no PatrickMcGinnisII we're discussing a taboo topic

SandmanSW96: lol it's not so much taboo in certain parts of the US

SandmanSW96: texans think they should be able to carry AK's into walmart, california thinks you shouldn't be allowed to have a cigarette on the 2nd floor of your own apartment outdoors, new mexico just facepalms

MadKnight: only in certain partis

MadKnight: parts

SandmanSW96: lol this makes me wanna listen to/watch the vid for toby keith's "american ride" pretty much roasting all of it

BoBot: sounds like a catch22 - I want to smoke, but I might get shot for reaching for the lighter...

SandmanSW96: lol bo that would be if you were black and anywhere north of the red river or east of the mississippi, or pretty much anywhere in cali

BoBot: wait cali is worse with regards to that? :O

PatrickMcGinnisII: the popo used to be just policing for profit, now they enofrce feelings too. ;)

MadKnight: BoBot whose alt areu ?

SandmanSW96: well there is still a difference between real cops and pigs, and the pigs gottta go

BoBot: @MadKnight alt? I have been here under this name for ~4 years, on and off :P

BoBot: mostly off in the last 2

SandmanSW96: lol MK remembers me as sandman I am sure, just different suffixes

MadKnight: there are lots of places with lots of pigs making others' lives worse

SandmanSW96: oh no doubt

MadKnight: yea i do remember

SandmanSW96: but not 100% of cops are pigs, unless you are in riyahd or pyongyang or something lol

PatrickMcGinnisII: SandmanSW96 true, making a mistkae is ok, making a mistake that costs someone their life...well, not so much. Since the riot in Tampa, they changed the local ordinances again.

MadKnight: eminem was trying to stay up-to-date so his last song contains reference to that cop

PatrickMcGinnisII: Facemask enforcers seem to be everywhere

MadKnight: as well as a reference to the quarantine

MadKnight: BoBot hmm i haven't seen u much when there were no contests

BoBot: yea I pop on mostly for contests :D

BoBot: that's how it is :D

MadKnight: BoBot PM ?

SandmanSW96: yeah any huge disturbance can get outta hand. when the red sox wont the world series,

BoBot: oh sry

SandmanSW96: that girl got shot with a riot control paintball in the eyeball, got a hemmerage and died

SandmanSW96: and that was just celebrating

PatrickMcGinnisII: I think I figured out my bandas bitboard

SandmanSW96: lol yeah let's talk code

PatrickMcGinnisII: but now my dinner is out of the oven

SandmanSW96: lol or that too

SandmanSW96: I know I get vocal on that kinda stuff online, mostly just to try to bring logic to some middle ground. it is way too easy to let things spin outta control one way or the other, just look at our last f'ing election *facepalm* I thought I was embarassed when "we" voted him IN... I am so ashamed of 49.9% of my country once again

TimberStalker: nice "middle ground" you got there

SandmanSW96: trying to make sense of it all

SandmanSW96: both sides are guilty of enflaming things, but the "voter fraud" orale... not gonna spark that one up in here

PatrickMcGinnisII: I have friends on all sides. One almost got arrested harassing people at a polling place. Some are just morons.

SandmanSW96: yeah

SandmanSW96: counterproductive as hell

TimberStalker: Maybe this "election fraud" will get dragged out for four years just like the last one.

SandmanSW96: like the anarchists in phoenix who smashed in windows and didn't even loot because of the "guy in minnesota the cops killed" and probably couldn't even tell you his name

SandmanSW96: I never said there was fraud, that ninja got his ass stomped lol

SandmanSW96: never thought I would miss Bush Jr

SandmanSW96: but by comparison, tap dancing jehova

PatrickMcGinnisII: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DqoQq1zME8

SandmanSW96: lol patrick

SandmanSW96: so..... how about that power of thor? pretty tricky eh?

PatrickMcGinnisII: ep2 yes

SandmanSW96: ah yeah I should give that one a shot

PatrickMcGinnisII: a little like code v zombies

SandmanSW96: I hit a roadblock on APU2 first time here, and never got over it since I had work, then so many more contests and multis

PatrickMcGinnisII: apu2?

**PatrickMcGinnisII scratching head

SandmanSW96: yeah the matrix one

SandmanSW96: a hashi puzzle "there is no spoon"

iWillKickYourAss: that "Bob and Alice" question is stupid

SandmanSW96: its in the hard puzzles I think

SandmanSW96: haha willkick yeah

SandmanSW96: if N>M blah

PatrickMcGinnisII: ahh i never did ep2

SandmanSW96: my least fav is height of the ball

PatrickMcGinnisII: hmm

SandmanSW96: which is n*64 if you ever come across it, so done to death I will gladly risk spoiling it

PatrickMcGinnisII: u do Ghost in the cell? that's my fav contest

SandmanSW96: I don't think I tried that one yet, trying to focus on one at a time

SandmanSW96: hey the most recent, they immediately posted it in multis,

SandmanSW96: does it carry your existing code over? or do you have to start from scratch again?

PatrickMcGinnisII: that's the first time i think they ported the code over automatically

SandmanSW96: thats cool

PatrickMcGinnisII: i usually had to copy/paste it

SandmanSW96: other ones, I had to reboot it, which can be good but not if you hadn't saved it elsewhere

SandmanSW96: nothing wrong with ref***ulating existing code but not if you can't glance over the old stuff

PatrickMcGinnisII: i think u get xp when u submit a bot the first time in a multi... so i think we missed out on some free xp there

TimberStalker: what is a multi?

SandmanSW96: yeah but still alot is given in clashes, but I haven't been around this much in a while so no clue

SandmanSW96: timber a multi is a bot challenge, that has league levels

SandmanSW96: all PVP

PatrickMcGinnisII: I have to rewrite challenge anyways, it can wait tho

TimberStalker: oh ok

SandmanSW96: most if not all are old contests, like the one that just wrapped up the other day

SandmanSW96: my first acct here made it from silver to gold in CSB while I was afk for like a month lol

SandmanSW96: came back and bob was congratulating me :laughing:

PatrickMcGinnisII: submit some bots, rank up

PatrickMcGinnisII: fall challenge cost me like 20 places

PatrickMcGinnisII: haven't done Yinsh, but that is struct's fault...smh

SandmanSW96: yeah alot of scoring used to come from clashes but I do love how these folks are on the ball and keep changing it up

struct: why? PatrickMcGinnisII?

struct: :p

PatrickMcGinnisII: lol, cause u made it so complicated

PatrickMcGinnisII: :P

struct: Yeah, it was hard

struct: I used game notation

MadKnight: struct

MadKnight: so what happened ?

MadKnight: i have no idea

MadKnight: something absolutely random

JohnCM: hey all... how do you make the blue text in the problem statement?

JohnCM: like output 'True'

JohnCM: i'm creating a CoC

JohnCM: https://www.codingame.com/contribute/view/57691fd38b2c396a5af2a828406bf673edcc

MadKnight: [color=stuff] ?

MadKnight: JohnCM still there ?

PatrickMcGinnisII: Template:Text

JohnCM: ok

JohnCM: yup

JohnCM: yes Template:Text did the trick

MadKnight: PatrickMcGinnisII PM ?

Rodrigo_the_coder: what is Template:Text

Rodrigo_the_coder: ???

Rodrigo_the_coder: i'm so lonely...:(

miszu: whatsup

Rodrigo_the_coder: what is Template:Text

miszu: no idea, I just arrived

Rodrigo_the_coder: fall challenge has ended, lets play CSB

miszu: you don't play CSB

miszu: you code a bot and let it play

Rodrigo_the_coder: i couldn't pass bronze :(

miszu: try new strategy

Rodrigo_the_coder: targ3-vel?

Rodrigo_the_coder: nope

Rodrigo_the_coder: ...

miszu: to reach higher level, you need to read a lot of strategies and algorithms

Rodrigo_the_coder: lonely again :(

Rodrigo_the_coder: why only miszu chat

Rodrigo_the_coder: where are the others :(

miszu: they left

Rodrigo_the_coder: :sob:

Rodrigo_the_coder: check the person icon beside settings

Rodrigo_the_coder: in the bottom

miszu: yeah I know

Rodrigo_the_coder: they are most likely busy coding around

miszu: for sure

Rodrigo_the_coder: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/c5a7cdf5-35fc-4c6f-84bd-4053be21ae8d

Rodrigo_the_coder: do you understand this? improve it

Rodrigo_the_coder: :sob: the most lonely coder is: me!!!

JohnCM: lol

JohnCM: if i'm not wrong, a series of if else for thrust can get you into silver alr

Rodrigo_the_coder: thx

Rodrigo_the_coder: u mean if elif else

Rodrigo_the_coder: i tried, but failed to defeat Boss 4

Rodrigo_the_coder: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/c5a7cdf5-35fc-4c6f-84bd-4053be21ae8d

Rodrigo_the_coder: hey

Rodrigo_the_coder: u there

Rodrigo_the_coder: :(

miszu: JohnCM hey how you doing?

JohnCM: still an if else

JohnCM: doing fine haha

JohnCM: i've been blitzing CoC

miszu: what you working on?

JohnCM: soon gonna be top 100 alr

JohnCM: just submitted two CoC contributions for review

miszu: ah nice

miszu: that's good

JohnCM: you?

miszu: working on my UTTT

JohnCM: haha i've been too lazy to start the puzzles

JohnCM: what's uttt

miszu: utliamate tic tac toe

miszu: 40th in gold and making a push to legendary

miszu: but I am rewriting my code in visual studio and using unit test for correctness

JohnCM: that game is hard

JohnCM: i got stuck at bronze

JohnCM: you used mcts?

miszu: yeah mcts

Cheekycoder: hey guys

miszu: basic mcts put you out of bronze

miszu: kinda optimized mcts put you out of silver

miszu: super optimized will bring you to legend

JohnCM: i used mcts

JohnCM: but i did in python

JohnCM: only can go depth 5-6 + needed heuristics

miszu: c++ my friend :)

JohnCM: guess i should recode in c++

Cheekycoder: i don't under stand any thing like what to type and what it means

miszu: I use visual studio and write unit tests

Lysk: in C++?

miszu: I want to make sure my states are working properly

miszu: yeah

JohnCM: ha what unit tests?

miszu: hi lysk

miszu: haha

Lysk: nice nice

miszu: unit test is like writing code to test your code

JohnCM: i know

JohnCM: but like what kind

miszu: ohh

miszu: example

Cheekycoder: you guys now how to code right?

miszu: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/47719c54-65a3-4908-aa10-26be5884a599

Rodrigo_the_coder: will MCTS help me on CSB

Zenoscave: no Rodrigo_the_coder

Zenoscave: wrong domain for the usecase

miszu: this test tests a win state and make sure the states are also correct

Rodrigo_the_coder: what language is this?

Rodrigo_the_coder: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/47719c54-65a3-4908-aa10-26be5884a599

miszu: C++

Rodrigo_the_coder: thx man

Rodrigo_the_coder: is it UTTT

miszu: yeah

Lysk: have tried a c++ profilier, I have that on my todo list

Lysk: ?

miszu: never used a profiler

miszu: I think most people's problem is they don't have correctness of their code

miszu: a hidden bug separates them from next league

Rodrigo_the_coder: uttt wood python

Rodrigo_the_coder: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/f34a193f-3253-4b3e-8c8b-a79e890b0038

Lysk: right

miszu: so I changed my mindset and test my code

miszu: my mcts pick a branch with 80% win rate but loses

Rodrigo_the_coder: in python, to get out of uttt wood in python is print(row, col)

miszu: rarely but it does that

Lysk: Anyone fwith feedback wether or not it's worth having the potion bonus price in the simu?

Lysk: eg: after brewing potion at index 0, the potion at index 1 has as price: price -1 +3\

PatrickMcGinnisII: lysk I think the bonus is in the input data

Lysk: yup it is, I was curious to see if it was useful to have same bonus calculation deeper in the simu

Lysk: say you brew the first potion at depth 3, should the price for the potions be updated when calculating score/action at depth 4+

PatrickMcGinnisII: I doubt anyone bothered

JohnCM: yea just use potion bonus price

JohnCM: chances are, things won't have changed by the time you reached that state, if you are optimal enough

Lysk: when planing on 30+ turns it could make a difference