DaNinja: php here is version 7.3.9
Automaton2000: i don't think i will use it
Shadowtick: morning everyone
Shadowtick: I woke up at exactly 6:00 am
Shadowtick: and I have a cup of coffee to get me through my day
Shadowtick: so I will be awake :3
Shadowtick: hold on let me go get a clock for the time where I am
Shadowtick: I sent it to you
Automaton2000: but i want to learn more
Automaton2000: because it takes time to get #1
DomiKo: AutomatonNN [*]
DomiKo: Automaton2000 where is AutomatonNN?
Automaton2000: i don't think that i am getting the error
Scarfield: toad kicked NN
jacek: toadfield doesnt like to be hilighted
MSmits: hey, I was gonna code your jacekmax today jacek... but then I had another idea to speed up my endgame book :P
Marchete: what's jacekmax? :D
MSmits: it's jaceks version of best first minimax
MSmits: backpropagating the best eval
MSmits: so like mcts, but instead of doing wins/visits you just take the eval
MSmits: it's almost EPT depth 0, except with that you add up all eval scores like you do with win scores
MSmits: in this case you replace them minimax style
MSmits: i think i can code it in an hour or two at the most
MSmits: Astrobytes I had an idea to fix my cache issue
Astrobytes: Oh yeah?
MSmits: i was storing the information per gamestate as 180 values, one for each turn
MSmits: so turn 20-180
MSmits: err 20-200
MSmits: but when i am doing retrograde I am doing all states with 1 turn left, then all states with 2 turns left, then all states with 3 turns left etc.
MSmits: so its better if all states with 1 turn left are close together
MSmits: then when you're doing 2 turns, you can look the 1 turn stuff up fast
Astrobytes: yes for sure
Astrobytes: that makes sense, I thought you'd be doing something like that already!
MSmits: apparently not!
MSmits: then i started thinking more. I stopped my local database at 15 seeds, because beyond that i couldnt keep everything in memory
MSmits: but what i didnt realize is that i only need to keep the last turn in memory
MSmits: and maybe the current turn
MSmits: so thats 100 times less memory
MSmits: so it's the same issue really
MSmits: I need to do 1 turn, then write to HD
MSmits: then do another etc.
Astrobytes: Yes, storing everything seems pretty redundant
MSmits: i was thinking in terms of seed databases, seed 1, seed 2 etc.
MSmits: but what i really should have been doing was turn databases
MSmits: I calculate I can do my local db up to 25 seeds with this improvement
Astrobytes: jeez man, that's something
Astrobytes: Have you started on it yet?
Astrobytes: (so much for "I'm done with Oware" :P )
MSmits: nah, I just thought of it on my way home from the train :P
Astrobytes: Keep me updated, it sounds promising
MSmits: yeah, it might take a while to calculate, so i might need a pause/resume function
Astrobytes: that's trivial enough
MSmits: also, HD space. I need to think about really compactify, because it's gonna be big
MSmits: 200 billion values
MSmits: mmh thats too big i think :P
Astrobytes: you're not compressing it already?
MSmits: well it's not very compressible I think
MSmits: I will just serialize it in as few bits as i can
MSmits: 200 billion times 6 bits
MSmits: mmh that's actually possible
MSmits: uses half my HD though
Astrobytes: lol that poor HD
MSmits: i might not go as far as 25, but we'll see
Astrobytes: It might not be worth it
MSmits: yeah. By the way. I think a supercomputer could solve this game easily
MSmits: just need 200 TB of space
MSmits: it's like the paper about solving Awari. It has less than 1 trillion states if you dont consider the turn
MSmits: with the turn it's 200 trillion
MSmits: but that solves the infinite loop problem, because turns never go beyond 200
Astrobytes: Maybe you should contact the authors ;)
MSmits: nah, it won't be interesting to them, the 200 turn limit is artificial
MSmits: it's just to deal with CG limits
MSmits: but it's essential in how you play this game
Astrobytes: Still interesting enough I'd say
Astrobytes: They might find you 200TB of storage and a supercomputer :P
MSmits: They are Romein and Bal, I think they lost interest. their database is no longe rup either
MSmits: someone claimed they made mistakes
MSmits: but it's impossible to check now
Astrobytes: oh right, yeah, I remember this discussion from before
MSmits: anyways, gonna work on the live bot first, before i try and tackle the issue of the local db
Astrobytes: Make an article like the CSB Nash-DQN one
MSmits: Yeah, I might
Astrobytes: when [if] you finish
MSmits: I don't think anyone wrote anything about endgame DB's before
MSmits: on CG I mean
Astrobytes: I've not seen anything no
MSmits: I did two of them now and I think I have the biggest one for either game.
MSmits: 9 seed oware and 12 squares Bandas
MSmits: I think the next biggest for bandas is 9
Astrobytes: who has that?
MSmits: Nagrarok, I was told
Astrobytes: ah ok
MSmits: interestingly... I dont think karliso has one
MSmits: so he's wrecking us in some mysterious way again
Astrobytes: He's just using the karl iso magic again
Astrobytes: is bandas based on a real game btw?
MSmits: I think so, but I dont remember which.
Astrobytes: I remember searching for it but don't think I found anything
MSmits: An AI multiplayer game made with the Codingame SDK Based on Frutiparc Frutibandas game Assets by Kenney Vleugels
eulerscheZahl: i found https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/14469/banda
eulerscheZahl: which is now what i was looking for
Astrobytes: ah thx MSmits
MSmits: all i could find
MSmits: good one
MSmits: not to be confused with MadKnightTreeSearch
MSmits: I imagine that's an algorithm to find a tree in a forest
Astrobytes: PlumTreeSearch, for his Prune Array
Astrobytes: (prunes are dried plums)
MSmits: he has a prune array?
Astrobytes: He did yes
Astrobytes: Only he knows what it did or what it was
MSmits: you get an interesting combination of results if you google prune array
MSmits: graphs, construction tools and hygiene products
jacek: it was his misunderstaing of how alpha beta works
eulerscheZahl: next time he's online remind me to suggest him caching array lookups
Astrobytes: ah yes, that was it jacek
Astrobytes: cegpracache :D
MSmits: thats maybe a real name
Astrobytes: that was genius that one
MSmits: nope it's unique
MSmits: google has no idea what that is
MSmits: which is impressive
Astrobytes: I did find a Pracache Ulvanolanit
MSmits: poor guy
MSmits: or ?
Astrobytes: no idea
jacek: by HHD you really mean HDD with spinning motor?
MSmits: me? I dunno, I have a SSD and one of those old ones on my system
jacek: i almost felt pity and was gonna send you fast SSD
MSmits: seems like i have a SSD of 500 gb,and two of those spinning motor things, one of 500 GB and one of 1 TB
MSmits: maybe I'll start a service where you send me a SSD and I send you one back with a oware seed DB :P
jacek: then youll get owned by piracy. ill use that to *seed* torrent
KiwiTae: i dont have a computer :(
MSmits: gonna make some mad :moneybag:
MSmits: who would not want an oware seed db
MSmits: lol jacek :)
MSmits: would be funny to see a torrent for an endgame db
jacek: i bet there are for chess
MSmits: KiwiTae, you are doing CG on your phone?
MSmits: jacek no doubt, maybe even checkers
MSmits: though there is no need, that checkerboard website shares checkers db up to 8 pieces
MSmits: 10 pieces uses insane HD space
MSmits: Astrobytes that doesnt look SFW :P
Shadowtick: what did I just walk into???
ZarthaxX: a beautiful place
MSmits: you say that every day Shadowtick
MSmits: maybe by now you should have the answer :P
Astrobytes: a discussion about seed databases, torrents and storage
Astrobytes: *endgame databases
Shadowtick: I know but now I am actually confused about it even more than the last ones MSmits
MSmits: ah ok. I could explain it so you'll understand it, but I am afraid you'll leave halfway through
Astrobytes: Please explain it.
Shadowtick: well I am gonna be coding and have the chat shrunk down
MSmits: I don't fit in a shrunken chat, unfortunately
ZarthaxX: wall of text smito :P
maras: Is there a way to fight against the boss using the CGBenchmark? Does the boss have an ID or something?
Shadowtick: I meant I am gonna hide ittt
MSmits: sure, flee again
Astrobytes: ITTT? Infinite Tic Tac Toe?
MSmits: maras, there is, i dont remember
MSmits: maybe it says on the website
Astrobytes: it's on the forum somewhere
MSmits: it has some player id
MSmits: i think
maras: That's great news, I'll try to find it then
Astrobytes: maras: https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/cgbenchmark-tool/2956/27
MSmits: Astrobytes uttt is already ittt, it never ends
Astrobytes: fair point
MSmits: Yes you can. You have 2 options :
Use agentId = -2 (this is the boss of your current league)
MSmits: Find the replay of a game with the boss. Open your browser console and look at the JSON response, it contains the agentId of the boss
Astrobytes: that's what I just linked :P
maras: thanks a lot
MSmits: I saved him the click
MSmits: oh you linked the specific part of the forum thread
MSmits: i thought i just lucked out and it popped up in the rigth place :P
MSmits: this linking is too advanced for me
Astrobytes: no it saves the post number in the url
Astrobytes: as you scroll down the page
MSmits: ahh nice
Astrobytes: yeah, handy
Shadowtick: alright Imma just go so have a great week everyone
Astrobytes: and you
MSmits: yeah, keep thinking about what you ran into
MSmits: maybe tomorrow you'll know
MSmits: otherwise just ask us again
Astrobytes: Shadow tick walks into a bar. Says 'ouch'.
MSmits: DJBouncyPirate_fc6f that's just depth 0, not much of an opening book tbh
jacek: thats neat compression
jacek: it fits 49 seeds of uttt
MSmits: i think we broke jacek, he's mixing up games now
Astrobytes: My pods keep running out of sanity.
MSmits: let's make these jokes as "inside" as possible
MSmits: if ZarthaxX doesn't get it, we're doin good
ZarthaxX: it's easy as i havent been here for months heh
ZarthaxX: but good luck
MSmits: you didnt get the opening book joke?
MSmits: I can explain, wont be as funny ofc :P
MSmits: I thought you were only doing this with scarfield
MSmits: or was this because ZarthaxX was gone
MSmits: is scarfield ZarthaxX replacement?
Astrobytes: No, it started with AnthraxX
MSmits: ohh ok
jacek: wooo new puzzle of the week
Astrobytes: ScarthaxX :o
MSmits: that sounds like a weird mafia thing
Astrobytes: and Zarfield
ZarthaxX: what opening book joke?
MSmits: DJBouncyPirate_fc6f 05:04PM 你
MSmits: MSmits 05:04PM DJBouncyPirate_fc6f that's just depth 0, not much of an opening book tbh
ZarthaxX: compressing your opening book with special chars
MSmits: yeah, i thought you would have gotten that one
ZarthaxX: i lived that part of cg :P
MSmits: oh how did you use this?
MSmits: I struggled with it over the weekend. Finally managed to get that working, but it wasn't easy
ZarthaxX: i meant i saw a lot of opening book compression shenanigans haha
MSmits: ah ok yes
ZarthaxX: i never did it myself
Astrobytes: you gonna join the contest Zartho?
jacek: nowadays is NN compression
MSmits: I never needed to before, because my opening books were always small
MSmits: but endgame books are massive
ZarthaxX: Astrobytes maybe
Astrobytes: cool cool
MSmits: jacek how does the size of the NN scale with the time needed to train it until it tapers off?
MSmits: say if you used the same NN, but twice as many constants
ZarthaxX: the problem is that uni is gonna get hard on those days sadly
Astrobytes: ah yeah, well, hopefully you find a bit of time
MSmits: I start a new course (as a student) the day after the contest starts
ZarthaxX: yeah, i will jsut abandon my team for the subject proyect
jacek: i actually never measured. i assume about 100-200x position vs the NN's number of weights
MSmits: but I probably wont get much home work
ZarthaxX: MSmits nice timing
MSmits: it's about game design
MSmits: think they will make us do stuff in unity
jacek: i think have about 52k weights for oware
ZarthaxX: oh, why did you choose that?
MSmits: what do you mean by 100-200 x position?
Astrobytes: you'll walk that if it's Unity then MSmits
MSmits: ZarthaxX not that much to choose from, other stuff would be more basic. At least game design sounds fun, i need some credits
ZarthaxX: i see
MSmits: yeah i used unity before
MSmits: even went into their compute shader stuff
MSmits: lots of tutorials too
Astrobytes: Yeah I remember
MSmits: it's a cool tool
Astrobytes: And your sphere?
jacek: nowadays i use somehwat supervised learning. i play random games, take out the position and let the current bot analyze for few depths for each of them
Astrobytes: It was a sphere right
ZarthaxX: you will be into gaming for 10 days then :P
MSmits: oh that thing is still making me a euro a month":P
MSmits: yeah a sphere
jacek: so for oware i can do 5 millions position and i think it will saturate it
MSmits: I used the money for that useless D &B paper
jacek: hint: sci-hub, libgen
ZarthaxX: D&B ?
MSmits: nah this one was not available
MSmits: had to spend $$
MSmits: could not resist
Astrobytes: oh didn't know libgen
MSmits: dots and boxes ZarthaxX
ZarthaxX: there is a paper for a game of cg?
Astrobytes: we've got loads of board games now Zarthabsentee
MSmits: umm, cg has checkers too
ZarthaxX: i know Astrobytes it's too much :D
MSmits: I think checkers has thousands of papers :P
jacek: hmm https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.14979
MSmits: more citations because it's easier to find and read stuff?
Astrobytes: Makes sense. Most big journals are only exploitative money making machines
jacek: ZarthaxX its bit of experimentation and cg limits. there are 12 houses and 2 scores. 2 * (12 * 31 + 2 * 25) * HIDDEN_UNITS + HIDDEN_UNITS
eulerscheZahl: and soon we'll have minesweeper
MSmits: hmm jacek, have you not considered doing it scoreless ?
Astrobytes: that looks awesome btw euler, you did a great job on that :)
MSmits: since the history of any gamestate has no effect on what the best move is
ZarthaxX: jacek what are you talking about?
eulerscheZahl: thanks. even got a win98VM and installed Netscape + WinRAR on it :D
MSmits: so no matter what the score is, the best move is the smae
Astrobytes: lol, now that's dedication!
MSmits: damn eulerscheZahl
eulerscheZahl: couldn't find a way to go online with the VM
jacek: ZarthaxX ahh you were talking to MSmits, sry
eulerscheZahl: so i created an ISO file and inserted that
ZarthaxX: okey haha
ZarthaxX: optimization minesweeper toad?
jacek: MSmits i want to keep it simple for now. game state -> chance of winning. so far it works. if i get rekt, ill try another approach
eulerscheZahl: medium puzzle
ZarthaxX: oh ok
MSmits: ah ok, sure chance of winning does need the score
ZarthaxX: isn't there one already?
MSmits: this actually explains something i found with your bot
eulerscheZahl: but mine has a working windows clock that shows the real time :D
MSmits: I do a scoreless state, and your bot does sometimes do a different move if it came to the same state by a different route (with possibly a different score)
ZarthaxX: how did you mix minesweeper with that interface wtf
eulerscheZahl: you can turn it off, check the settings
ZarthaxX: did you mimicate win98 game?
eulerscheZahl: i took a screenshot from minesweeper on a Win98 and drew over it
ZarthaxX: ah okey haha
MSmits: Mimicate More than just mimicking someone. Greater than just imitating them.
MSmits: had to urban this one
MSmits: I thought you made it up
ZarthaxX: i thought it existed :P
MSmits: apparently it did
Astrobytes: A case of mimesis
jacek: mitochondrium is a powerhouse of the cell
Astrobytes: lol, we need a dictionary of Zarth
jacek: thank you, school
MSmits: thanks Astrobytes, I'll correct the physics errors
Astrobytes: *deoxyribonucleic acid
MSmits: are we testing Astrobytes now
Astrobytes: lol MSmits
eulerscheZahl: yes, autocorrect made that red. but failed to offer a better version
Astrobytes: haha I like giraphe better than giraffe
MSmits: me too
MindController: Guys please help
MindController: A.erase(A.begin() + 0);
MindController: Im getting segmentation fault with this line
eulerscheZahl: what's A.size()?
eulerscheZahl: hm :thinking:
ZarthaxX: you sure
AntiSquid: besser = better btw :P
eulerscheZahl: i don't see what could be wrong with this line then. maybe it segfaults somewhere else before?
eulerscheZahl: i don't get that AntiSquid. you are first only hit when I crtl#f for besser (and me now)
eulerscheZahl: and we got a useless badge from the hacktober ctf
Astrobytes: oh you did another ctf?
eulerscheZahl: wasn't as fun as the first
eulerscheZahl: but we learned that zeno is a great teammate for that kind of contest
AntiSquid: what do you mean euler?
eulerscheZahl: too windows heavy. and new tasks revealed late into the contest
Astrobytes: that figures, he's good with numbers and crypto
eulerscheZahl: and linux
AntiSquid: ah yes that was bullshit :D
eulerscheZahl: oh and the first questions that you had to answer to unlock the rest
AntiSquid: 15:00 - 16:00 is when new puzzles got revealed
eulerscheZahl: some research about the sponsors needed
eulerscheZahl: how many core values does sponsor X list on the website, seriously?
AntiSquid: reply challenge was really good imo
Astrobytes: lol, that's really lame
AntiSquid: some stuff annoyed me about reply, like the wording, but it was still far better
eulerscheZahl: was only the first few. but already dropped my motivation when the real challenge started
Astrobytes: was it just the 3 of you for reply or did Ille's colleague also join in the end?
AntiSquid: this ctf seemed random, amateurishly organized
eulerscheZahl: on paper ille too. but didn't play
Astrobytes: why not?
AntiSquid: zeno is really good at that stuff
AntiSquid: he hard carried us
eulerscheZahl: oh and the first hour the website was really laggy
eulerscheZahl: i didn't even see the tasks that zeno solved until the next day
eulerscheZahl: went to bed and the next day some new tasks were there. and already solved
AntiSquid: ya me and zeno stayed up and talked
AntiSquid: was going to decompile a binary and zeno just ran a one-liner search on it to make it give him the flag ... lol
eulerscheZahl: saw the chat the next day. but didn't read all of it as the tasks were solved
AntiSquid: you know the flag3.txt challenge where i used the password to login to the other user? apparently you were supposed to find a file that has a permission to access the other user's file and run that on the flag3 lol
eulerscheZahl: ah, that's what I would have expected. some SUID or alike
eulerscheZahl: you could write your own post mortem on that task
AntiSquid: i did, a quick one for fun wanted to see if anyone comments / how they react
eulerscheZahl: i see https://ctftime.org/writeup/24264
eulerscheZahl: somehow i assumed you just set the username when connecting via ssh already
AntiSquid: i connected without setting a username, there was none specified and i didn't even specify a port since -p 22 didn't work
eulerscheZahl: oh, i thought it was ssh user@machinename
eulerscheZahl: i logged in but just copied the details
AntiSquid: i did ssh machinename
AntiSquid: that's the only thingi remember working
eulerscheZahl: now it's offline already, can't even see the tasks anymore
AntiSquid: or maybe we are talking about diff puzzles? either way the flag one went down for an hour
AntiSquid: ya it's sad ... wonder what the 5k worth of points tasks even were
eulerscheZahl: we are talking about the same task. but meh, let's end this discussion about a semi-interesting contest
eulerscheZahl: back to watching last week tonight
AntiSquid: reply was great, wanna try the investment challenge on their site, curious what it is about :D
AntiSquid: oh shit . just remembered i signed up for the other challenge on sunday and didn't continue it LOL
AntiSquid: why do they need to share if they don't want to ?
Astrobytes: you can always pm them
AntiSquid: pm them your hate
Astrobytes: lol, not quite what I had in mind
Astrobytes: Ruthless mode today squiddy? :D
eulerscheZahl: AutomatonNN still afk
Astrobytes: Stop it Begalkantin
Astrobytes: yes euler, appears so
Astrobytes: Ooh I am being schooled in naughty Indonesian words in PM
Astrobytes: Every day I learn
eulerscheZahl: pay attention and use them for the next troll
Astrobytes: ban next time
eulerscheZahl: i get English insults in PM
Astrobytes: Yep. Especially the multiplayer section :P
eulerscheZahl: in clash of code it's a replay of previous games from real humans
eulerscheZahl: your turn again Astrobytes
eulerscheZahl: banned *RIP*
Astrobytes: There we go. Peace and quiet.
eulerscheZahl: well, do you want to wait 10min without anyone joining at bad times?
Astrobytes: programistination: the bots only play when there aren't enough human players
eulerscheZahl: the bots jump in to fill the gap and leave again if real players join
eulerscheZahl: that would turn clashing into a single player game at some hours of the day
Astrobytes: Which kind of defeats the purpose
MadKnight: are u sure bots only play when not enough players ?
eulerscheZahl: there are some twitch streamers clashing. with lots of real players competing at the same time (around 50)
Astrobytes: Pretty sure, it's what they said on the blog article right?
Astrobytes: CG bots that is, I'm sure there are user bots too
eulerscheZahl: https://www.twitch.tv/codinggarden/videos this one plays clash of code occasionally
MSmits: so hey. What's the best way to serialize an array of 1249046562 ints
MSmits: bytes i mean
MSmits: or at least store them on HD in a readable way
MSmits: (without decompressing the whole thing every time)
Astrobytes: New optim game
eulerscheZahl: also depends on your file system i think. how easy is it to access a random part of the file?
MSmits: no i was talking about my oware seed db :P
eulerscheZahl: oh, more insults in the private messages
eulerscheZahl: all caps now
Astrobytes: lol, the anger is real
MSmits: what did you do eulerscheZahl
Astrobytes: I know MSmits!
eulerscheZahl: and astro went for the ban after
MSmits: that hurts, you play soccer
Astrobytes: He got 3 kicks and a ban
eulerscheZahl: by 3 different mods
eulerscheZahl: do i want to *** his ***?
MSmits: is this Begalkantin?
Astrobytes: And we're learning Indonesian words
MSmits: oh ok
MSmits: so you used him for his knowledge and then discarded him?
Astrobytes: Hmm, he kind of bestowed the knowledge upon us without our consent
MSmits: I see
MSmits: sometimes you don't know what you're missing until it's handed to you
Astrobytes: I think I know enough to get beaten up by strangers in Indonesia now
MSmits: sounds useful
MSmits: we all have our bucketlist i guess
Astrobytes: back to your issue, is it not easier to store in an actual database? OR that's too slow?
Astrobytes: Also are you serialising it by hand currently or using an inbuilt feature?
Astrobytes: don't worry, MSmits loves doing things like that
MSmits: colinemonds thats exactly what i need
MSmits: but i also need to be able to go into that file and retrieve a byte at a specific position
MSmits: not sure what this open() thing is though
MSmits: a value will use 6 bits, so i will retrieve two consequtive bytes actually and take part of each
MSmits: i think?
Astrobytes: second is correct yes
Astrobytes: "astrospelling" lol
MSmits: hey i figured I'd weigh in on that thing you got going with scartaxX
MSmits: but glad to hear it's possible to put data on disk like that
Scarfield: its a beautiful thing AstroSmits
Astrobytes: indeed Mfield
MSmits: that sounds like what euler is working on
MSmits: either that or something out of string theory
eulerscheZahl: huh, what am I working on?
Astrobytes: I was gonna say it defo has a theoretical physics sound to it
eulerscheZahl: ah. only 1 vote missing
eulerscheZahl: and then level 54 :boom:
Scarfield: i can be "persuaded"
MSmits: colinemonds i dont mind if it is hard to calculate indices. These files are going to be 2GB each and I need 100 of them
MSmits: roughly, but you get the idea
MSmits: dont want it to be 33% bigger
colinemonds: sure, but well, if you need to get it as efficiently as possible (and do care about order/need to access by index), then just bit-shifting to proper positions is the way to go. you're advantage here is that because it naturally lines up, even the perfect packing isn't annoying to implement
MSmits: ah yeah, that's true, if I ever stop using it and want to keep it around I could pack it
Scarfield: I like your profile euler, you pretty much have everything and then: "SKILLS No skills learned yet"
colinemonds: *your. also, because the indices are easily calculated, you could keep the values even in-memory like this, and processing will probably still be reasonably performant, depending on what you do (will probably hit memory bandwidth limits before the CPU is busy with packing/unpacking)
MSmits: mmh ok, but say I am using an array of bytes (is this char? or uint8_t?), how would i go about writing it to file and reading parts of it?
MSmits: which c++ functions are these
MSmits: most of the stuff i find are about reading and writing strings
MSmits: I often write an integer to file in hex format or something, but that's pretty silly
MSmits: yeah no i got that part
MSmits: the bit shifting and such
MSmits: how do i write it
PatrickMcGinnisII: MSmits it's just how you open the file
MSmits: yeah i should explain, i am a bit wizard that does not half of programming basics that real devs take for granted :P
MSmits: does not understand
MSmits: ahh thats the stuff
Scarfield: http://www.cplusplus.com/doc/tutorial/files/ ?
Astrobytes: Honestly MSmits, you could just have asked that a day ago lol
MSmits: i only thought of the question today
MSmits: because i had that new idea
MSmits: hmm but scarfield, thats plain string writing
MSmits: I am learning how to write binary now
MSmits: yeah apparently
MSmits: cool, thanks
Scarfield: yea, just realised. your avatar should have a wizard hat with ones and zeros on it, instead of moons and stars :p
AntiSquid: how many decades have you been coding for colinemonds
MSmits: not a bad idea Scarfield
Astrobytes: good answer :)
AntiSquid: only now realized he has a degree in physics .
AntiSquid: need a degree in physics to get better at coding i guess
MSmits: physicists end up all over the place
MSmits: mostly it's a degree that says: smart guy
MSmits: or gal
MSmits: it's true though, at one point we had 5 guys with physics degrees in or parliament
PatrickMcGinnisII: Physicists wear several hats usually named i j k
AntiSquid: alright . i wish i could say great but yeah . how's it going Thecodekid123 already forgot when we last talked .
MSmits: PatrickMcGinnisII lol... I always make loops with i,j,k I think you're referring to tensor geometry?
AntiSquid: how do i access my digitial memory again ? (someone share the link to the CG chat history please lol)
MSmits: isnt that just google?
PatrickMcGinnisII: MSmits my physics classes were all about how general formulas were made, so yea i,j,k unit vectors
LegendaryStone: DiL can you share code please, you never do and I want to learn
AntiSquid: yes ofc . colinemonds
Astrobytes: googling for anything is allowed in CoC
MSmits: oh right yeah that's just linear algebra. I think it's a class many CS students dislike
AntiSquid: i mean if you ever do coders strike back i don't know how you progress without checking trigo formulas
Astrobytes: People do that sadly
MSmits: s0m3th1ng that and more
MSmits: I am both in high school and college and I have a job, how about that
MSmits: high school is my job, so i am cheating I guess
Astrobytes: No it's fine in all CoC modes
Thecodekid123: Guys and Gals you can try to code in python here: https://jupyter.org/try
AntiSquid: colinemonds you save solutions for the puzzles you've done and paste them next time you get them, coc repeats itself
MSmits: *try* to code sounds a bit offensive :P
Astrobytes: s0m3th1ng: a lot of us here are old
AntiSquid: and people share the code . i mean ...
AntiSquid: how else do you want to beat the 10 second guys ?
Astrobytes: tis what it is
MSmits: colinemonds you need to do a lot of clashes before you see repeats
MSmits: most people get tired of it before that
eulerscheZahl: more than 600 clashes in the pool
MSmits: most people switch to stuff that is more fun
AntiSquid: oh number increased a lot i see
AntiSquid: * meaningful @MSmits
Astrobytes: MSmits is 128, I'm 38, there are others
codeing: yo the city
eulerscheZahl: smits is -128, he had an overflow
codeing: i'm doing something
MSmits: wouldnt that be -127?
Astrobytes: lol euler
AntiSquid: hi codeine nice to see you pal
eulerscheZahl: 127+1 = -128
MSmits: mmh ok
eulerscheZahl: in 2's complement at least
codeing: let me ask please something
codeing: i'm doing something
codeing: and i have question for you
Astrobytes: He likes bits s0m3th1ng, and doesn't know his own age so you can just suggest one
codeing: this is the algo
MSmits: s0m3th1ng we have 13 yr olds that wreck people at coding here. Age doesn't matter that much
PatrickMcGinnisII: in 8 days my age will start with a 5, proof of garbage in garbage out GIGO
codeing: what you think about this code ?
AntiSquid: who is that MSmits ? :P#
MSmits: i think?
AntiSquid: is he 13 ?
MSmits: I thought so, might have the name confused
Astrobytes: He is 143
Astrobytes: I mean 13
codeing: any feedback
AntiSquid: lies, too good for 13 .
MSmits: euler confused you with the overflow joke isnt he
MSmits: didnt he
Astrobytes: Nice kid. I taught him minimax
MSmits: he learns too fast
MSmits: he'll be karliso before he can vote
PatrickMcGinnisII: imagine being young during AlphaGo
Astrobytes: I know right
MSmits: we're all young compared to Alpha go though
MSmits: dont they all say it's like 30000 hrs old
MSmits: the articles
MSmits: yeah its just 5 yrs
MSmits: maybe its 30000 lifetimes i dunno
MSmits: in any case, they always talk about huge trainign times
MSmits: i dont even want to play it once :P
MSmits: at least against myself i'd win 50%, thats something
Allis: We know not what we sow.
Allis: The robots will have a hard time forgiving us.
PatrickMcGinnisII: i had to ride my 10 speed 13 miles each way in 100 degree heat to copy an ascii table from the library, true story . :(
MSmits: i know. It's somewhere between 1 and 48 seeds
Astrobytes: Heretic MSmits
AntiSquid: if you count training time as age they are all millions of years old :P
Allis: @PatrickMcGinnisII What an adventure!
eulerscheZahl: and now tell the same story again with metric units so the rest of us can understand what you are talking about PatrickMcGinnisII
Astrobytes: about 20km
MSmits: I am assuming it was hot, he went far and he copied the same database multiple times because he kept losing it on the way back
eulerscheZahl: the 100 degree was the hard part for me actually
Astrobytes: 30+ degrees
Astrobytes: nearer 40 I guess
eulerscheZahl: that's hot
PatrickMcGinnisII: 10 speed, lol... it had gears
AntiSquid: 10 gears?
Astrobytes: Ain't any of you used a proper bicycle?
PatrickMcGinnisII: 2 in front, 5 in back..c'mon 2x5=10
AntiSquid: never drove a care with 10
PatrickMcGinnisII: Actually the one I have now is 18
AntiSquid: not very knowlegable with cars actually
MSmits: why are you focused on the bike. I am more interested in why he had to copy an ascii table multiple times
AntiSquid: i mean 7 seems enough
Astrobytes: hahaha now that's a proper repair job
PatrickMcGinnisII: just once, there was no internet! Had to trek to even have a possibility of finding an answer
MSmits: ahhh ok
AntiSquid: oh you were talking about bikes lol
MSmits: you're like those third world people that have to walk 2 hrs for water. Only it's worse in your case. Ascii tables should be available to all
Astrobytes: brb, founding an NGO for ascii tables
PatrickMcGinnisII: they didn't really start publishing personal computer books til like '79
PatrickMcGinnisII: unless you had a magazine subscription to microcomputer magazine you had no info at all
MSmits: PatrickMcGinnisII is an OG
Astrobytes: Original [Mc]Ginnis
PatrickMcGinnisII: i built my own computer and burnt my own EPROMs, yall are spoiled
MSmits: no doubt PatrickMcGinnisII
Astrobytes: ^this is the man I keep trying to convince to use C instead of PHP on here
MSmits: yeah this is inconsistent
PatrickMcGinnisII: Astrobytes rofl
PatrickMcGinnisII: I'm burntout
MSmits: because of the eproms?
Astrobytes: all in the head brother, all in the head
**MSmits googles eproms
AntiSquid: great now try a quantum computer
PatrickMcGinnisII: Imagine trying to make the leap from ASM to OOP, you'd fry your braincells too
Astrobytes: there was a suggestion for ARM assembly in the language thread colinemonds, that's as far as it goes
MSmits: PatrickMcGinnisII the reverse leap might be worse?
MSmits: FP is quite old isn't it?
Astrobytes: yeah but it's trendy now
Astrobytes: just saw that
eulerscheZahl: vandalism approval
Astrobytes: no, some are old puzzles
Astrobytes: they might be linking those without threads
eulerscheZahl: ah, that would explain it. and i like that explanation more
MSmits: a community bot?
MSmits: Thi baud handing off his job to a machine ?
eulerscheZahl: the bot creates threads for new puzzles
Astrobytes: it's the one that links a forum topic to a puzzle or multi MSmits
eulerscheZahl: i thought someone just approved 7 at once
Astrobytes: damn you :P
MSmits: we all feel your pain colinemonds
Astrobytes: yeah, it's a bit of a kick in the teeth
MSmits: other multis are not like that
MSmits: for a long time we gave people a heuristic just to get them into the higher leagues so they get all the info
MSmits: we stopped doing that because its a bit counterproductive to learning
Astrobytes: Now we mostly encourage the slow way
MSmits: yeah, thats how other multis work generally
AntiSquid: go for legend in CSB since you get another rule change and need to optimize again
Astrobytes: Yeah. It's very old though, as M Smits said it's better for other multis
MSmits: isnt it just a speed increase?
MSmits: to legend?
AntiSquid: double speed
PatrickMcGinnisII: FP written in GNU C, oic ... damn rabbit hole colinemonds damn u
MSmits: dont worry about that colinemonds
MSmits: speed is just a number
AntiSquid: small change huge effect
MSmits: all other multis afaik, have their last rule change at bronze
MSmits: and when the rules change, its usually a good thing, to slowly let you get into the game
MSmits: with csb it's counterproductive
colinemonds: well I thought about re-writing everything for gold anyway, because currently I barely have an AI algorithm, I just do simple linear algebra to optimize the turn for the next checkpoint and otherwise I just follow the track
Astrobytes: contests can vary, as it's obviously a dynamic thing but ultimately ends up as last changes in bronze
PatrickMcGinnisII: How to make me shutup, make me curious enough to google something
MSmits: colinemonds if you want to get into csb seriously, you need to write a search algorithm
Astrobytes: PatrickMcGinnisII you never heard of functional programming until now?
MSmits: minimax, ga, etc.
MSmits: it works, many bots have it
MSmits: the top 5 are neural networks, but dont let that discourage you
AntiSquid: isn't it just about the MCTS these days ?
PatrickMcGinnisII: Astrobytes not as an actual lang.
MSmits: NNs on CG are beatable in most cases, some are just very strong. The codesize limits heavily restricts them
MSmits: you have to write everything yourself
MSmits: and fit it into the codesize
AntiSquid: through suffering
MSmits: not many games have them though
MSmits: a few boardgames and csb and bitrunner2k I think
jacek: and unicode
PatrickMcGinnisII: I haven't done nN on CG, don't you have to give it baby steps on local sim first?
MSmits: ahh good old Kolmogorov
**MSmits googles Kolmogorov
jacek: you train NN offline and just put weights in the code
BuonOmo: Anyone got stuck at 93% on the chess board analyzer with all tests passing ?
jacek: cute cat
PatrickMcGinnisII: BuonOmo I'm kinda working on it now
Astrobytes: Nope, I'm at 0%, no tests passing, 0 attempts
Gabbek: BuonOmo - finished it around 10min, all passed.
PatrickMcGinnisII: haven't tried to submit yet
Gabbek: You're most likely having issue with capturing.
MSmits: oh PatrickMcGinnisII. NN's are your way to get a rank 1 using php language
MSmits: do it :)
BuonOmo: So frustrating, i've taken some shortcuts (like a rook can see even if there is a pawn in the way). But idk which one is an issue...
BuonOmo: @Gabbek don't think so!
PatrickMcGinnisII: I like graphics tho, I'd hate to have to write a java app to run a php code, how rude\
Astrobytes: that would be interesting
colinemonds: "An attacked King could be saved only by moving himself to a safe square (not by using another piece from the King's team)" makes the puzzle kinda lame, like, the entire puzzle is really just "write a chess evaluator", but then it's really "write a chess evaluator that doesn't even work"
Astrobytes: No L810
MSmits: you're supposed to code it
Astrobytes: You're kinda missing the point
Astrobytes: If you can't do it, figure it out
MSmits: ask for a hint
MSmits: astro is always happy to help
Astrobytes: gee thanks MSmits
PatrickMcGinnisII: vulcan google hole... got me again. supported by my graphics card and my PHP cli ... huh, how did i not know this?
Astrobytes: L810 you will learn nothing in this course/class if you go around asking for solutions to problems
ZarthaxX: L810 keep asking for solutions, that's the way to go
ZarthaxX: im the devil here astrobyto
eulerscheZahl: no, you are the polar bear
PatrickMcGinnisII: I guess i can throw netbeans out
eulerscheZahl: and replace it with IntelliJ?
LastRick: I don't need the solutions, just the validators
colinemonds: PatrickMcGinnisII well, setting up Vulkan to the point where it renders a triangle is just a thousand lines or so of boilerplate, so I think it will still look better than most PHP code I've seen
Astrobytes: lol ZarthaxX :imp:
Astrobytes: colinemonds hahahaha
PatrickMcGinnisII: colinemonds well i actually do alpha channel blending in php, not animated of course, but it works really well
Neumann: wlesavo: you're using vanilla Beam Search on 2048 ? It fascinates me how poorly my Beam Search performs, I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong
Astrobytes: Neumann strongly on topic here :P
Neumann: Oh I'm sorry I thought this was internet
PatrickMcGinnisII: All the top 10 peepz are hard-wire focused
Astrobytes: I was only joking btw
AntiSquid: are we discussing manga ?
Astrobytes: Nope. Sushi recipes
Neumann: I know :D
PatrickMcGinnisII: huh, i don't get forum notifications but i get CoC ones, gheesh
eulerscheZahl: defending your rank on the optim leaderboard or are you interested in 2048 for real?
Neumann: Why not both
eulerscheZahl: ok, that's cool :)
Neumann: I'm trying to convince myself I'm not that rusty after a few months off of CG
Neumann: But my struggles are proving me wrong
Neumann: Also first time I'm implementing Beam Search
Neumann: And legit not understanding why it sucks so hard
wlesavo: Neumann some tuning, but i also struggled a lot finding good parameters, also acounting for duplicates gives a huge boost
MSmits: hey Astrobytes, my 8 seed db went from 300 ms to 150 ms using the new order of calculation (better caching). Now I am going to try it for 9 seeds. I have good hope I can keep it under 1 second
Neumann: What is there to tune besides the beam width ?
eulerscheZahl: there are that many duplicates? i didn't expect that
Neumann: Currently at width 1000 with snake eval ->10M
wlesavo: basically it worked much worse then my BF at first, i even thought i broked my sim at some point, but it was just the parameters
wlesavo: yes euler. i didnt checked how much, but quite a lot
Neumann: Parameters, with a S. brb reading Beam Search definition because I can only see 1 parameter
wlesavo: Neumann i have smth like depth 50 width 30
eulerscheZahl: that's almost like my params :rofl:
MSmits: yay, 9 seed db: Endbook time: 336 ms
eulerscheZahl: and a similar Neumann reaction to it
MSmits: I can do 10 I think
wlesavo: Neumann also there are some differences in approaches, i for example do fixed depth fixed print depth, some people try to search for the whole turn
PatrickMcGinnisII: All programmers have performance anxiety it seems
Westicles: I'm a little surprised how hard these 131k tiles are to find offline. Still stuck at 4
wlesavo: im at 4 with online solution, magaiti even have offline reverse sim, and even that struggles, i wonder what dbdr did, he was quite fast to achieve that score also
Westicles: Which 4? If you call them 0-29, I have 4,6,15,22
wlesavo: let me check
wlesavo: oh wait, im at 5, 3 4 6 15 22
Westicles: aha, thanks I'll look into those more
wlesavo: also i believe 6 is easiest to achieve 3.3M
Westicles: I don't have any good ideas besides trying the 8 snake rotations. Maybe there is another closed path besides the snake that works
Westicles: Doing reverse sounds interesting though
Neumann: wlesavo: depth 50 width 30 takes 2ms max. I must be doing something else than a BeamSearch
PatrickMcGinnisII: a BF at 6 depth only gets you 1M, a BF at 5 depth, and expanding top 75% scorers to 2 more depths gave me 1.5M . I'm so out of my depth, pun intended
Westicles: All I do is depth 7 from scratch every turn, no beam
PatrickMcGinnisII: max tile 8192 at depth 7 imho
Westicles: Nope. 1.6-1.74M for every case, but no 131k
Neumann: So you print 7 moves per turn ?
Westicles: Oh, no I meant I search 7 moves into the fugure
Astrobytes: MSmits: sorry was afk, that's quite the improvement!!
Westicles: I print whenever chrono hits 50ms
ZarthaxX: eulerscheZahl i will always be the polar bear
Neumann: Ok, like wlesavo did. Depth 7, keep best, depth 7 from that one, etc for 50ms
ZarthaxX: need to put some horns in my polar bear and a trident or smth
Neumann: That approach gives me 24M :/
PatrickMcGinnisII: only kept 1?
Astrobytes: ZarthaxX: put an unpopular opinion on your profile pic and you can be a polarising bear
Scarfield: bipolar bear?
PatrickMcGinnisII: Astrobytes or add sunglasses
ZarthaxX: wtf :rofl:
Westicles: Ah, yurk posted his scores
eulerscheZahl: will this turn into the next Great Dispatch with top players getting a perfect score?
eulerscheZahl: i was a little spammy with contributions :innocent:
PatrickMcGinnisII: damnit, 10 minutes to figure out i forgot to put __ in front of construct
eulerscheZahl: if you are really unlucky with the spawns probably not
eulerscheZahl: but in this version you have the spawn algo as well. so you can actively influence the next spawn
eulerscheZahl: the drawbacks of an interpreted language PatrickMcGinnisII
PatrickMcGinnisII: is it bad that i only put solutions in OOP to make it readable?
colinemonds: is it bad that my solution for the puzzle I'm working on has some functions that are over a screen page long and are really just the same block copy-pasted a dozen times because I'm lazy and nobody will maintain this anyway?
Astrobytes: that happens
PatrickMcGinnisII: hmm, most puzzles r like 100 lines max, maybe a couple harder ones at 400
MSmits: astrobytes, yeah it was nice. Then I did 10 seeds and i got just over 1s. Looking for a few more improvements now and otherwise I'll just code my "continue into regular turns" thingy
Astrobytes: I think you're on the right path MSmits
MSmits: yeah, I hope this is done soon, then i'll look into doing it locally
PatrickMcGinnisII: u stil fighting bandas?
MSmits: nah this is oware
Astrobytes: (hence my interest)
MSmits: i generate endgame books so that i can immediately give a W/L/D result when it goes below 11 seeds on the board
MSmits: i do this in the first 1s mostly. It's not put into codesize
eulerscheZahl: joke's on you: you'll beat me like 20-3
MSmits: the thing that took 70% of my calc time now due to caching only takes 15% now
MSmits: funny how changing the order of operations can make such a big difference
Astrobytes: that really is an impressive result
Astrobytes: nothing, shuddup :P
MSmits: i sped up my endgame book generation by doing things in a different order. By a factor of 3 or so
MSmits: thats what happens if you make a huge 100 mb array and you decide to think about caching instead of just accessing it all over the place
MSmits: i shudder to think of how badly my mcts sometimes caches with all that tree reuse
MSmits: though i guess the nodes could still be close somehow, not sure, it's messy
ZarthaxX: i said what because i didnt get what he changed for the cache friendly thing :P
Astrobytes: yeah yeah :P
ZarthaxX: ban astro
MSmits: oh ok, well i was accessing things in a way where they were on average 180 times farther apart than they are now
ZarthaxX: i see
ZarthaxX: good catch :P
MSmits: because i sorted by state instead of by gameturn
MSmits: each state has a value for each game turn
MSmits: but i only need the previous turn
ZarthaxX: ah nice haha
PatrickMcGinnisII: dropping 14 ints in a stack sounds faster to me
PatrickMcGinnisII: says the 1 depth oware bot
Astrobytes: hey i'm 0 depth
MSmits: mmh not the same :P
Scarfield: oof the puns, must resist
Astrobytes: lol punfield
**PatrickMcGinnisII thinks Astro is scarred
Scarfield: 14 ints vs 100Mb array, potato potato
PatrickMcGinnisII: he can still hash each node and sort it all out after
PatrickMcGinnisII: maybe drop a radix sort on it. 3 loops and call it done
PatrickMcGinnisII: isn't treeing the entire oware doable? Maybe not booking it for CG, but the expansion isn't infinite ...maybe big...
MSmits: yeah it is
MSmits: needs 200 TB or at least something of that order
MSmits: that's an upper limit
MSmits: thats the statecount
MSmits: the treesize is waayyyyy bigger
MSmits: transpositions keep the statecount low, so solving it is doable
PatrickMcGinnisII: 200TB, seriously ... i may have to investigate this, but I never finished my oware
**PatrickMcGinnisII adds to his to-do list
Astrobytes: It's a rabbit hole
Astrobytes: A good one though
MSmits: i can probably take a guess at the solving time by a quick calc
MSmits: assuming 10 seeds is 1 second
MSmits: gimme a min
MSmits: it would take about 500 hours on a single core, assuming the same cache efficiency. Considering that you would, at some point need to keep 100 trillion states in quick memory all at once. That is not realistic
MSmits: so 500 hrs * whatever penalty due to cache inefficiency/using HD
MSmits: parallizing it is completely doable though
MSmits: but the cache problem is not gonna go away
MSmits: parallelizing, what a crapp word this is
Astrobytes: you forgot to trigger your astrospeller MSmits
MSmits: yeah sorry
MSmits: at coding?
MSmits: do some basic coding tutorials first. Python is probably a good idea
MSmits: nah dont start with clash really
Astrobytes: and do puzzles, not clashes
MSmits: you dont need a time limit when you're still learning
MSmits: there is a difference between the difficulty of the easy puzzles though
MSmits: if something is still out of reach, try a different one
MSmits: they're not that well categorized
Astrobytes: yeah, the CG official ones are better (they have graphics)
Astrobytes: And you can ask in chat or check the forum for tips
Astrobytes: that was... Ace Ventura or the Mask?
MSmits: i think ace ventura
MSmits: but was split between that and cable guy, dont remember
Astrobytes: k, I trust you, been a while
Astrobytes: No defo not cable guy
MSmits: yeah just checked
MSmits: its ace ventura
Astrobytes: ah cool
LastRick: also ace ventura 2, don't forget that masterpiece
MSmits: right :)
Astrobytes: Can't remember if I watched it or not
LastRick: Do you recall any jokes about bat guano? Then no.
Astrobytes: It's a no from me
Astrobytes: Anyway, Cable Guy and Truman Show were probably my favourite Carrey films tbh
LastRick: Those were good too, def different from Ace. But my vote would be Eternal Sunshine or Man on the Moon
LastRick: depends on the question
Astrobytes: Oh damn, forgot about Eternal Sunshine, that was a great film
MSmits: yeah i liked that
Astrobytes: there's a button on the left with Hints
LastRick: the descent
LastRick: yeah, i think most of us have done it, what's the problem
MSmits: one of the hints should be that there's a button on the left with Hints
Astrobytes: But I'd urge you to think through what the problem is that you're trying to solve
Astrobytes: lol yeah
Astrobytes: write it down on paper/whiteboard
Astrobytes: yeah that's the one
colinemonds: "Two trains from Chicago and Washington are moving at each other at a speed of 40 mph. They pass by a train station that's at a distance of 20 miles to Washington and 1000 miles to Chicago. How old is the storekeeper?"
ZarthaxX: 5 tomatoes
LastRick: The doctor was his mom!
PatrickMcGinnisII: colinemonds well if they pass a station while moving at each other, the storekeeper is probably dead
Excetra: so the answer has the while loop as: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/df447bee-e06f-4778-a1f5-e0e0db1b03ba
Astrobytes: white True
Astrobytes: *while True
Astrobytes: 1 is true
Astrobytes: it's an infinite loop
Astrobytes: so while true is always true, do this stuff
MSmits: it means while false is true
MSmits: so, never
Astrobytes: hehe, easy trap to fall into
MSmits: dont worry about the while thing though
MSmits: i didnt understand it at first either and i could solve a few puzzles before i did
MSmits: to me it just meant, thats the puzzle loop in which the logic goes
MSmits: it's a game loop basically
MSmits: they are always infinite until some thingy breaks out of it
Astrobytes: for puzzles look at it as while there's all the input, keep doing stuff with it
Astrobytes: when you output at the end, it stops
Astrobytes: no problem
Astrobytes: and you
MSmits: Astrobytes is not *that* funny
Astrobytes: It's true :(
MSmits: I meant you are very funny, but with a few extra O's of course
MSmits: few less i mean
Astrobytes: Obviously :P
MSmits: there's too many O's is what I'm saying
Astrobytes: Sepehr.khashei: explain your outburst of laughter
MSmits: what a lazy troll, just one spam message
Astrobytes: I know, zero fun
MSmits: yeah he had lots of zero's and 2 L's
Astrobytes: ffs :D
MSmits: hey the level of intelligence goes down closer to midnight
MSmits: also i am sleep deprived, had to work this morning and i was a week off
Astrobytes: this is true
MSmits: my sleep cycle gets messed up
Astrobytes: I don't even know what my sleep cycle is these days lol
MSmits: yeah that makes sense in your situation, sucks
Astrobytes: Multiple reasons, not just that tbh
Astrobytes: MAd year
MSmits: because of covid?
Astrobytes: weird work schedules etc
MSmits: oh about covid... I went to a wedding a week ago and now the bride is fevered coughing and waiting for test result
Astrobytes: you were masked up right
MSmits: glad I didn't go to the afterparty
MSmits: i was very careful
MSmits: they had like 10-20 people in a house
Astrobytes: I mask up everywhere
MSmits: i didnt go there
Astrobytes: oh ffs, that's just stupid
MSmits: yeah, I know, that's why i didnt go
Astrobytes: The stupidity never fails to amaze me, problem is the rest of us feel the consequences of it
MSmits: wasnt just stupid, also illegal, but my country is not so big on enforcement
MSmits: rules lately got a lot stricter btw
Astrobytes: It's kinda hard to enforce some of the regulations without being fascist, it's a thin line
MSmits: all bars/cafe/restaurants are closed
Astrobytes: yeah same in my region of Scotland
MSmits: masks will soon be mandatory everywhere
MSmits: but you see them a lot already
Astrobytes: Have you seen the situation even just around Europe?
MSmits: just around?
Astrobytes: just Europe, not counting the rest of the world
MSmits: ah yeah, the second wave was very well predicted
MSmits: our politicians screwed up this time though
MSmits: first time they did ok
MSmits: they acted too late
Astrobytes: (sorry, typing in a conversational Scottish way :P )
Astrobytes: Same across Europe
MSmits: I'll gie ye a skelpit lug
MSmits: I'm fast with google :P
Astrobytes: whaur'd ye pu' that wan fi?
MSmits: google does not know what you just said Astrobytes
Astrobytes: You have now said 'something'. Congratulations! You are our 100th something!
MSmits: we do have quite a few somethings
Astrobytes: Spelling varies but that was "Where did you pull that one from"
MSmits: ahhh ok
MSmits: just googled typical scottish expressions
MSmits: I am watching the social dilemma
MSmits: Arjen Lubach (our John Oliver) did a good segment on the same issue
Astrobytes: It's very regional, I use a lot of Glaswegian stuff as it's familial but I use East coast stuff because I live there
MSmits: it's really scary
Astrobytes: I haven't watched it yet
MSmits: i meant the Dutch programma
MSmits: it showed people demonstrating at our political centres
MSmits: claiming our leaders are pedophile blood drinkers
Astrobytes: No I mean I didn't watch the Social Dilemma yet
MSmits: i know
MSmits: but that was what was really scary
MSmits: you dont imagine so many people in your country are on this path
MSmits: it's like 10-15%
Astrobytes: Oh soooo many yes
Astrobytes: "claiming our leaders are pedophile blood drinkers" - yep
MSmits: The Dutch are one of the least vulnerable people to this sort of thing, I think, but if we go this easily...
Astrobytes: They latched on to some anti-establishment vibes (justified) and get sucked into this crap
MSmits: but so fast
wlesavo: nice westicles, some improvement?
MSmits: Arjen Lubach made a fresh youtube accounrt
MSmits: he needed 3 clicks to get into conspiracyland
MSmits: it's crazy
Westicles: wlesavo, yes #26 popped up
Astrobytes: Yep. That sounds about right
Astrobytes: And, not sure about others experiences, but it's a lot of so-called 'free thinkers' I see getting sucked into this crap
MSmits: free in this context meaning an unstructured, vulnerable mind
Astrobytes: It's essentially cult style indoctrination
MSmits: we have a political party catering to this now
Astrobytes: Put 2 + 2 + 2 together, all good so far, add another 2 + 2 + 2 get 956, too late by then
Astrobytes: They take common issues and problems and provide an *explanation*, which is why people gravitate towards these things I think
MSmits: I have been judging the US for those trumpian idiots with their crazy signs and stuff for like 6 years
MSmits: but we apparently have those too , just in lesser numbers
Astrobytes: I think, personally, the reality is much worse and people can't handle the fact that there's a lot of stuff without tangible blame or reasoning
MSmits: yeah that is it exactly
Astrobytes: Same everywhere MSmits
Westicles: Yeah, half the people are idiots :)
Westicles: And not my half
MSmits: i dunno, I always thought my country was well educated, sober etc. But that's probably just a bias from the people I associate wit
Astrobytes: Bluntly put, yes Westicles
Astrobytes: Yes, there's a lot of bias now, bubble effects etc. Nothing that hasn't been going on as a society previously but magnified in different ways I guess
Astrobytes: Anyway, very deep for a Monday eh
MSmits: it's very paradoxical that it's easier to find out what other people think, but we are less likely to do it
Astrobytes: Yes, you have to actually actively pursue it
MSmits: lol Astrobytes was already letting on that it was getting to deep and now you come with that HelloWorld183L
MSmits: nah, not working on my autobiography yet
Astrobytes: I know the book but I haven't read it no
Astrobytes: lol MSmits
MSmits: will remember HelloWorld183L
MSmits: sounds good
Astrobytes: Yeah, I'm always up for philosophical and ethical issues
Astrobytes: well, the two are intertwined
Westicles: Bostrom? Yeah, good book
Astrobytes: I am going offline now
DomiKo: buy Astro
Astrobytes: Amazing to see chat so active today
DomiKo: bye Astro*
MadKnight: is there a thing in c# to check for condition and throw exception if false ?
MadKnight: too boring
MadKnight: i need something like Assert()
DomiKo: Debug.assert I guess
MadKnight: no that one doesn't throw exception
MadKnight: it just stops the process
MadKnight: i don't have an id
MadKnight: i do Assert(x>3, "x must be greater than 3!")
iKirbs: you can throw your own exceptions
iKirbs: and catch them
MadKnight: yea but is there an assert-like function for that ?
iKirbs: not sure bout that
MadKnight: what's the best way to ask user to input some value and check if it's correct format and in some range() ?
MadKnight: and then ask him to input again if it's not
MadKnight: what's the nicest way to do that ?
PatrickMcGinnisII: property change event handler, don't think cg supports it
MadKnight: why not ?
MadKnight: cg supports events
PatrickMcGinnisII: i dunno, i was told event handlers beyond try and on_error didn't trigger...maybe I'm wrong
MadKnight: what event handlers?
PatrickMcGinnisII: but set on a variable and write a trigger function
MadKnight: how did they try it ?
PatrickMcGinnisII: try is part of event handlers
PatrickMcGinnisII: try ... maybe error event handler
MadKnight: but let's say we're not on CG, so how would it look like? i mean your solution
MadKnight: nonono i know that
MadKnight: but i mean
MadKnight: how would the rest look like ?
PatrickMcGinnisII: i dunno. while (!int.valid());
MadKnight: 1 - that doesn't output message saying what is wrong 2 - that doesn't look like a nice way
PatrickMcGinnisII: I do it JS with a popup warning box
MadKnight: so how would it look in js ?
MadKnight: noooo that's not even a part of the question
MadKnight: i know how to popup
MadKnight: and i know how to do properties
PatrickMcGinnisII: JS can call a validator function on form submit
MadKnight: yea but that's a different case
MadKnight: i'm talking about console app
PatrickMcGinnisII: you can show hidden error messages and highlight fields, etc.
PatrickMcGinnisII: yea, just while(1) and break out when they input something valid
MadKnight: hmm but what about non-imperative langs, colinemonds ?
MadKnight: or imperative but a lot of language features
MadKnight: no, recursion is a workaround
MadKnight: and is bad
MadKnight: and dirty
MadKnight: tail-calls ?
MadKnight: recursion in this case is a dirty workaround
colinemonds: tail-call elimination means that if the recursive call is the last thing that happens in the function body, the compiler will convert the function into basically a loop (ie the "tail"-call will not allocate a stack frame)
MadKnight: oh right i know about that
MadKnight: i just didn't know the name
MadKnight: but anyway
MadKnight: how to avoid this dirty workaround and make it better?
MadKnight: loops are just imperative
MadKnight: but using recursion as while(!good) is bad
PatrickMcGinnisII: not as bad as hooking a variable with .onchange
PatrickMcGinnisII: darn thing will always be listening
PatrickMcGinnisII: of course, turning the listener an and off makes it better
MadKnight: it's clearly a workaround, colinemonds
MadKnight: it's not supposed to be like that
PatrickMcGinnisII: is vodka cheap in russia?
MadKnight: u wanna visit russia to buy a ton of vodka ?
PatrickMcGinnisII: I just googled it, 5 x cheaper than here
MadKnight: do u not agree that recursion instead of while() does seem kinda like a workaround ?
PatrickMcGinnisII: JS is full of workarounds that include recursion, its a mess
MadKnight: oh with this guy we were talking about FP, PatrickMcGinnisII
MadKnight: but what about FP ?
MadKnight: but it doesn't seem to make any sense
MadKnight: it's just super weird
PatrickMcGinnisII: there's a bunch of functions that work great recursively that are faster and don't bloat the kernel
MadKnight: yea i know it does
MadKnight: do u know what's MCTS ?
MadKnight: let's go to DM colinemonds ?
PatrickMcGinnisII: I am curious about infinite series use in FP lang
PatrickMcGinnisII: but i digress
PatrickMcGinnisII: ok, yall have fun, took me 4 hours to get one puzzle done, fml
ZarthaxX: nice PatrickMcGinnisII sounds frustrating asf
MadKnight: include cmath
MadKnight: double sqrt(double);
double x= sqrt(3);
MadKnight: why doesn't ?
MadKnight: u are doing something wrong 100%
MadKnight: yea i get it
MadKnight: theredbobct joshnho Skeenie hey
MadKnight: u guys solved the problems ?
FuriousT: If you are "replaying same conditions" it works fine until you attempt a run where you have a code error (syntatx etc). Then once you've corrected the error the replay no longer plays the GFX and the page has to be reloaded (whereupon you lose your replay conditions).
ZarthaxX: you print nothing
MadKnight: hey ZarthaxX
Coder613: hey all I'm a beginner here. how do you get thor to get the angle in power of thor episode 1?
ZarthaxX: you print the direction you wish him to move Coder613
Coder613: right that worked for the straight lines but not for the angle. he always strays off course when it comes to the angles.
ZarthaxX: what do you mean by angles
Coder613: when he moves sw to get to the light he always foes too much south
ZarthaxX: you are giving the wrong directions then
ZarthaxX: you can choose to just move N, S,W or E
ZarthaxX: you dont have to always move in both directions
Coder613: Is there any way to increment the degree of direction? Like say divide it by half?
ZarthaxX: show a replay of your problem
ZarthaxX: you can share the video of thor dying
Coder613: sorry I dont know if that was it. can you see it?
ZarthaxX: nop lol
ZarthaxX: you gotta see in the same bar where you press play in the replay
ZarthaxX: an icon that is to share the video
Coder613: right then i found your profile but i cant figure out past that
Coder613: got it!!
Coder613: I think I figured it out. Thanks so much ZarthaxX you were very helpful.
ZarthaxX: nice :P
ZarthaxX: have fun!
Coder613: thanks you too!