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MadKnight: is anyone still there, Automaton2000 ?

Automaton2000: i have no idea what's that

MadKnight: wow, chat is lagging super badly

MadKnight: [CG]SaiksyApo can u fix it ?

Marchete: hi hi Maddy

Bbaaii: what can i sayyyy except your welcomeeeeeee

Bbaaii: for the sun and the moon and the sky

Bbaaii: hey its ok its ok your welcome

MadKnight: hihi Marchete let's go PM

markyy: I just solved puzzle of the week and reached level 12 weeeeee

markyy: and I enjoyed the puzzle of the week

wlesavo: its a nice one

Xedux: PhantomzBack ?

Xedux: can you give your recent clash code ?

Xedux: PhantomzBack ?

Xedux: hello

Default avatar.png PhantomzBack: Hey

Default avatar.png PhantomzBack: i think don't have it I discarded it

Default avatar.png PhantomzBack: But i just used two recursive for loops and printed a space between characters, but after exiting the inner loop, you just print a new line

Xedux: ok

Default avatar.png LinhT.Nguyen: john brzenk

MSmits: hi

jacek: good afternoon

MSmits: are you working on anything for CG jacek?

jrke: MS how is your endgame solver

MSmits: currently if I try 1000 games, my slowest solve is 140 ms and average is 2 ms

MSmits: (per game)

MSmits: but if i try 10k games, one of them takes 800 ms. It's the really rare games that are super slow

jrke: thats great achievement for now

MSmits: yeah, I got transposition tables to work

MSmits: now it's mostly trying to find the right heuristics. Some heuristics make my solver 10x faster, but are exactl 99% of the time, it's frustrating

MSmits: there's often some rare exception

jrke: okay

jrke: yeah exceptions are always there even exceptions have also exceptions

MSmits: yeah, that's what I am talking about mostly. The exceptions to the exceptions... quite rare

MSmits: I could probably ignore them and accept losing those games

MSmits: but I would like it to give an exact score

MSmits: also I am pretty sure there's more theorems and corollaries to explore in those papers that I can use

MSmits: somehow

jrke: you can play those games manually and fix them right?

MSmits: oh, right, that's another option. Possibly the exceptions are so rare, I can hardcode them

MSmits: but not manually, it's too hard to play them manually


MSmits: this is the hardest one of my 10k seeds test

jrke: ok

MSmits: looks messy right?

jrke: yeah but its having 3 chains or more?

jrke: can your current heuristic defeats dbdr?

MSmits: the problem is all the splits (joins). It only has 1 isolated chain

MSmits: the length 3 one

MSmits: the rest are strings (as they call them) connected to splits

MSmits: if you play one string on a 3-join, the other 2 strings combine into 1 chain

MSmits: or a string, if it is connected to yet more joins

jrke: really a tough one to get accurate Ai for this particular one

MSmits: yeah, well... I got one that calculates it perfectly I think, though it is hard to test

MSmits: problem is it takes 800 ms now

MSmits: which still helps I guess. I am guessing it can solve within 100 ms, after the first string is opened, so it's not a waste of effort in any case

dbdr: avx it ;)

jrke: yeah optimise code

MSmits: I will do that, but that's a matter of a factor of 2 or 3 at most. It's not enough to get it below 100 ms

MSmits: avx will be almost impossible I think

MSmits: i dont even know what to parallize in a graph

jrke: pragamas are nice way to optimize

MSmits: also I was thinking about using this for a mcts bot, do the solve at the end of the rollout, but that's not feasible

MSmits: currently my average is 2ms per game, so at most 50 rollouts or so

MSmits: not enough to get any good stats

dbdr: quality vs quantity

MSmits: yeah.. so maybe I should just stick with minimax

dbdr: those 50 are worth many more random endgames

MSmits: thats definitely true

MSmits: random seems completely pointless into an endgame

MSmits: it's quite good in the early game though

jrke: but you can not detect random endgame against random or weak bot

MSmits: hmm not sure what you mean

MSmits: do you mean that if the bot plays badly, the endgame will look so different that my solver doesnt apply?

MSmits: I don't think that's true. The only effect a badly playing bot will have is that it is giving away boxes earlier, so the endgames will be smaller (less objects), which in general means it solves faster

jrke: yeah thats true

MSmits: it calculates a score difference

MSmits: so it takes the current score and finds the maximum score on top of that

MSmits: so if you're +10 ahead and it calculates -5, you still win, that's mostly what will happen vs bad bots

jrke: hmm

MSmits: it also assumes the opponent will play perfectly

MSmits: so the score calculated is always a lower bound

MSmits: it can only get better

jrke: then it will work

MSmits: but that's always true for minimax

MSmits: I want to get it reliably below 100 ms, before I convert it into a live bot though

MSmits: more work to do :)

jrke: :)

MSmits: super happy i finally made a minimax with both ab pruning and TT. I just copied the technique from a chess article

dbdr: D&B is a rabbit hole

MSmits: it definitely is

dbdr: which article?

dbdr: well done!

MSmits: Alpha-Beta with Sibling Prediction Pruning in Chess

MSmits: it has a lot of info

MSmits: I guess it is more a book

MSmits: 52 pages

dbdr: dutch :)

MSmits: lol I didn't even see that

MSmits: it's often Dutch isn't it?

MSmits: that's even my university

dbdr: :D

jrke: going for submit MS?

dbdr: jrke is impatient to see MSmits' bot :)

MSmits: not for a while I think. As I said it still needs improvement. Also on friday i get the key to my new house

MSmits: that will be a lot of work

dbdr: why? a key is not that heavy

MSmits: :P

MSmits: painting and :poop:

jrke: i will be there for help

MSmits: nahh, you go make more bots.

MSmits: it's awesome you do so well

jrke: im really impatient :)

dbdr: I don't recommend painting with :poop:

MSmits: lol

dbdr: cheap though

dbdr: it's a tradeoff

MSmits: I think it's actually not that cheap

MSmits: to get enough :poop: for that

jrke: :key: your key is here

dbdr: I don't know, in the right places they might pay you to take away their :poop:

MSmits: I was hoping to leave enough money to pay people to paint and stuff

MSmits: but wife spent most of it already :)

dbdr: reminds me of

MSmits: funny :)

dbdr: what did she spend it on?

dbdr: actually this one is better:

MSmits: furniture mostly. I guess we didn't replace it for 13 years so she wanted to get all new stuff

MSmits: floors seem very expensive also

MSmits: and window stuff

dbdr: will have new furniture but no floor? :D

MSmits: no no, got new floors, it just cost several thousand Euros...

jrke: just flying in air

jrke: :stuck_out_tongue:

dbdr: attach furniture to the ceiling

dbdr: sounds like a fun house :)

MSmits: heh yeah

Default avatar.png wzg: 为什么我不能玩

MSmits: my openingbook is better than that

dbdr: :D

dbdr: given the right decoding, that's actually a perfect openingbook

dbdr: MSmits did you investigate the novel parts of that thesis?

dbdr: Sibling Prediction Pruning

DomiKo: can i get link to Euler site with chat history?

dbdr: :rolling_eyes:

DomiKo: I should bookmark it...


dbdr: I made that side, for info :)

jrke: domiko - link

dbdr: *site


DomiKo: wait

dbdr: that's not chat history

DomiKo: this is not euler's site?

jrke: it is euler site of codingame puzzles

dbdr: : <> is euler's site of cours, it does not have chat history

DomiKo: yes i know

dbdr: is the community wiki, which I made

DomiKo: I mean cg.spdns

DomiKo: oh ... my bad... I don't know why I thought that was Euler's

dbdr: probably he gave the link :)

DomiKo: maybe

DomiKo: now I will remember

MSmits: dbdr, nah i didnt read everything yet. Was just looking to see how to handle updating alpha and beta with TT. It's hard to wrap your head arouns

MSmits: around

dbdr: DomiKo, no worries :)

jacek: no need to worry with alpha and beta in jacekmax

MSmits: gamma though, how about gamma?

dbdr: αβγ

dbdr: upgrade your keyboard layouts :)

MSmits: :alpha:

MSmits: that's all I'm gonna try, if it isn't an emote, it isn't worth it

dbdr: it's a letter, why would you need an emote?

dbdr: -- δβδρ

DomiKo: ß²

dbdr: and γ⁵

dbdr: thanks to euler for that one

DomiKo: and the best one X Æ A-12

dbdr: what's that?

DomiKo: Musk's kid

dbdr: ah


DomiKo: :sweat_smile:

Danotris: Lol developers aren't funny

Danotris: I beat Maxime at clash of code

DomiKo: good for you

dbdr: this one's for MSmits:

Astrobytes: lol

jacek: long time no see absentbytes

Astrobytes: haha, yeah. Catching up on work, missed a week and ended up with a huge backlog

MSmits: hey... I went to all parties I was invited to in college

MSmits: :P

MSmits: i mean uni

Astrobytes: But how many were you invited to? :P

MSmits: ooohh so long ago, can't remember :PP

Astrobytes: lol

Astrobytes: What's the meta on Dots n Boxes then?

MSmits: I think the bots that are currently on the leaderboard do minimax

MSmits: i was going to do a mcts with a random rollout and a solver at the end of the rollout, but solving is too slow currently

MSmits: average endgame takes 2 ms to solve and some take up to a second almost

MSmits: still looking for better heuristics for the solver, I have some hope left :)

Astrobytes: Cool. It seems quite an interesting problem

Astrobytes: (the game that is)

MSmits: yeah addictive

Astrobytes: haha, they always are :)

Thiesjoo: Hey Msmits do we have any homework for Thursday?

DomiKo: :joy:

Astrobytes: hahaha

Thiesjoo: Easiest way to contact him :)

DomiKo: that was unexpected

Astrobytes: well played Thiesjoo

Illedan: lol

jacek: if you want to contact him, just write 3 3 is best opening for yavalath

dbdr: write your message to MSmits at the end of your action after a ';'

Marchete: say that an endgame in D&B doesn't have 3-way boxes

Marchete: triggered :D

MSmits: lol Thiesjoo

MSmits: no homework

Default avatar.png PhantomzBack: Guys i am facing an issue

Default avatar.png PhantomzBack: i print the correct thing it shows even in the standard output stream

Default avatar.png PhantomzBack: but it shows found nothing

Uljahn: could be extra \n

DinuBrat: Тут на русском можно общаться ? )

DinuBrat: :upside_down:

Uljahn: а то

Uljahn: join #ru

DinuBrat: пасиб )

EveryOS: Guys I am facing an issue It says "only puzzle owners can access this puzzle" instead of showing puzzles And when I reload, it signs me out

Uljahn: which one?

EveryOS: Literally just going on any tab The exact error is: An error occurred (#511): "Only the owner can access puzzles progress".

EveryOS: I also get errors #498 and #522 a few times

DomiKo: wow

DomiKo: there is 1 point gat in Langon between 20 and 21

EveryOS: Well the site isn't working, keep getting error 511, so just gonna close

Default avatar.png ProCoder3: #fr

dbdr: DomiKo, there are even bigger gaps near the top :)

DomiKo: I'm trying to fill them

dbdr: :)

DomiKo: right now I'm stealing some pruning

dbdr: stealing?

jacek: prune array?

DomiKo: Stealing from top10 ;P

dbdr: not sure what you mean

Astrobytes: Prune thief.

dbdr: from the neighbour's tree

DomiKo: I have 0% winrate with some guys, because my heuristic is much worse... and I can't preddict their move

dbdr: hm, with minimax trees make sense :D

DomiKo: so I'm trying to understand which moves they could make

Astrobytes: lol

dbdr: if you understand what RedStike does differently...

DomiKo: I wish...

Astrobytes: He still way ahead in Langton?

dbdr: 4 pts above #2

Astrobytes: wow

dbdr: in java

Astrobytes: yeah I remember

Astrobytes: What does he use? Does anyone know?

Astrobytes: Algo that is

dbdr: someone said minimax

Astrobytes: Oh really? Interesting

dbdr: I noticed sometimes he ends the game early

Astrobytes: Going off-grid?

Astrobytes: Well, hitting the wall

dbdr: yeah

Astrobytes: Yeah I remember that being a viable strategy. I must fix my Langton bot

Astrobytes: So many games, not enough hours

dbdr: Domiiko:

dbdr: you timeout

DomiKo: yeah

dbdr: going out

DomiKo: but

DomiKo: that's no my current bot

dbdr: but this one does not look that good

DomiKo: I guess

DomiKo: if I cant find battle in last battles

DomiKo: then it have to be my prev version?

dbdr: yes

eulerscheZahl: "you timeout" that text sounds familiar

dbdr: :D

Default avatar.png lamnd: :grinning:

starmaq: :grinning:

DomiKo: ohh yes

DomiKo: half steal from Euler

DomiKo: and top10 for me :D

eulerscheZahl: dude :/

DomiKo: your moves and sometimes so random for me

eulerscheZahl: how did you even do that? i don't even remember myself what i'm doing :D

DomiKo: are*

eulerscheZahl: something like test X cells on the current path and neighboring cells

DomiKo: I'm not sure too

DomiKo: yea i know

DomiKo: everybody do that I guess

DomiKo: but everybody use sometime else

DomiKo: with Redstrike i have a lot of misses

eulerscheZahl: and that causes blind spots for the minimax

eulerscheZahl: redstrike always surprises me. i see that by observing my expected score

DomiKo: I'm using MCTS and that's blind spot too..

DomiKo: its like one random move

DomiKo: and my whole tree is :poop:

dbdr: DomiKo, so you're trying to reverse engineer various players?

jrke: 12 Nov fall challenge yeah just 2 days after my birthday :)

eulerscheZahl: oh, we have a date now?

eulerscheZahl: indeed :o

jrke: yes timer is here check it out

jrke: i just saw it

eulerscheZahl: and it lasts 11 days again

eulerscheZahl: The event starts on Thursday, November 12 at 3 pm UTC and ends on Monday, November 23 at 9 am UTC.

an early start

eulerscheZahl: not the usual 6pm CEST

eulerscheZahl: or CET at that point

dbdr: I guess that's better for east asia

eulerscheZahl: for such a long contest duration i don't really care

jrke: it will be 8:30 pm my country

dbdr: there's just a special feeling on the first day

dbdr: might be strange to wake up to a new contest everyone else has already started

eulerscheZahl: can't join :/

jrke: last time it began at 9:30 pm i.e. 4pm UTC right

dbdr: eulers misses the contest :scream:

dbdr: blacklisted

eulerscheZahl: and there's a ping on the CG discord announcement channel (@here?) that i can't see for whatever reason

eulerscheZahl: that channel isn't loading

dbdr: yeah, for me too

jrke: i got 1 rank promotion due to euler non participating ;)

eulerscheZahl: nah, you might be able to beat me in a fight ;)

eulerscheZahl: oh, now i could load the message on discord

jrke: i will try my best but i just spended 6 months on coding so i have less experience

eulerscheZahl: and another unofficial "contest" like the one from thibpat

jrke: by whoom is that contest sendme a link if you have any for that

eulerscheZahl: are you on the CG discord?


jrke: yes but not very much active

[CG]Thibaud: oh really, you can't see the channel announcements?

eulerscheZahl: working again now

eulerscheZahl: was lagging for a minute or 2

DomiKo: dbdr yes

[CG]Thibaud: :thinking_face:

eulerscheZahl: but i still can't register to the real contest

[CG]Thibaud: the Fall challenge ?

[CG]Thibaud: or AUtumn AI 2020 ?

dbdr: using heuristics DomiKo? because I think most top players use search...



[CG]Thibaud: yeah, just saw your imgur

[CG]Thibaud: arf

jrke: is Autumn AI organised by Crypticsy with CG?

eulerscheZahl: that autumn AI is just promoting an existing multiplayer game

aCat: ah, ok, thx for the info

Astrobytes: like the one thibpat did

DomiKo: dbbr I'm using MCTS with heuristic for me and my opponent

Hjax: yay another unofficial contest

Hjax: should be fun :D

dbdr: ah ok, makes sense

eulerscheZahl: can it be PR2 again? :D

Astrobytes: lol

Hjax: my pr2 bot has no flaws, its perfect :P

jrke: is multi decided yet?

eulerscheZahl: probably

eulerscheZahl: but not revealed

dbdr: should be one with few participants

Hjax: the announcement said they were going to pick one that most of the people who sign up havent played

Hjax: so i doubt theyve picked one already

eulerscheZahl: ok, TL;DR :P

jrke: can be BotG then

Astrobytes: eww

eulerscheZahl: blasphemia

dbdr: whether they have decided or not is like asking if schrodinger's cat is alive before you open the box

Hjax: im not sure which game i want them to pick

dbdr: plot twist: they choose CSB

dbdr: would be an occasion for me to do it :D

Hjax: are you going to play this contest?

jrke: yeah dbdr is not in CSB arena

dbdr: not esp motivated, but I might if I haven't done the multi

jrke: but i can't update my CSB bot now

Hjax: you are pretty high up on the "people who will smoke me in a multi" list :P

jrke: bored by doing CSB continously by last 5 months

Hjax: my csb is just the silly oneliner thing

dbdr: same

eulerscheZahl: my CSB doesn't know how collisions work

dbdr: lol

jrke: my CSB bot doesn't know whats collab ;)

jrke: its having single pod simulation not combined

eulerscheZahl: much easier for PCR: you don't collide, you merge

reCurse: Except when you do collide

dbdr: ^

Hjax: theres a few games ive wanted to play but never really worked much on

jrke: i will like OOC

eulerscheZahl: same mass is rare enough to be ignored :P

reCurse: Rare enough except when it's not (the first 10-15 frames)

dbdr: that's why you have a bad rank eulerscheZahl ;)

**dbdr needs to check euler's rank

eulerscheZahl: just kidding, I handle this case

Hjax: locm would be fun

**eulerscheZahl is below dbdr

eulerscheZahl: :scream:

eulerscheZahl: wait, i won't join that "contest" anyways, so go ahead

dbdr: but you still have a decent rank

reCurse: I can tell you didn't try locm since you have this opinion

dbdr: ah no, below Illedan, not decent

Illedan: huh?

eulerscheZahl: now you summoned him, see what you've done!

dbdr: just trolling euler, don't worry Illedan :)

Illedan: I'm looking at the glorious counter for the next contest

dbdr: oh, another rust in top 10 on PCR, gg tomatoes

Illedan: Time to apply for some vacation days

dbdr: and top 3 looks like a toss up

eulerscheZahl: i usually take off really shortly. like: have a nice weekend, btw i'll be away next week

eulerscheZahl: so far no one complained :D

Illedan: :D

reCurse: Also gives you the leeway to ragequit if it's with fog of war again

Hjax: ^ pacman made me ragequit :(

Illedan: No problem if I just show up to work anyway

eulerscheZahl: yes, good thing it starts on a thursday again

Illedan: Oh

Illedan: nice

dbdr: eulerscheZahl: wow, that sounds unusual for employees, no?

reCurse: With WFH no one knows you're working on the contest anyway

Illedan: :angel:

eulerscheZahl: be boss is really chill as long as i get my stuff done

Hjax: my usual pattern is to go to work anyway, and be very unproductive as i think about the game all day

Illedan: ^

Hjax: and then go home and implement my ideas

eulerscheZahl: i wonder when RAIC will take place

reCurse: Next contest needs to be fog of war, incomplete inputs, 4 players and fixed start state.

reCurse: Then I might ragequit enough to delete my account :p

Hjax: needs a random element too

reCurse: I like you

eulerscheZahl: have you been struct all along?

Astrobytes: speaking of whom, is he back yet?

eulerscheZahl: no

Illedan: And cooperation

dbdr: I think the SDK supports 8 players

eulerscheZahl: yes, it does :)

Hjax: 4v4 moba, fog of war, random item drops

Astrobytes: I don't think I'd even open the IDE if it were 8 players

Hjax: perfect

eulerscheZahl: but RAIC had a contest with 10, coop with 5 players per team

Illedan: What about that BACK command from BTTC?

eulerscheZahl: dota-like contest

reCurse: I'm starting to think contest designers are not optimizing for fun but for torture

[CG]Thibaud: registration should be fixed eulerscheZahl

eulerscheZahl: thanks, i'm registered now

dbdr: damn, one place in the 4-10 range is taken

Hjax: i wonder if teccles will return for the fall contest

eulerscheZahl: to claim #2?

Hjax: as is tradition

reCurse: Savage

Astrobytes: didn't he say he was done with contests?

Hjax: maybe he will change his mind

MadKnight: why did he say that ?

MadKnight: what happened to him, Automaton2000 ?

Automaton2000: like it was in the middle of the game

eulerscheZahl: MK are you done with contests?

Astrobytes: Something about the time investment not being worth it

Astrobytes: Oh hey MK

reCurse: He's definitely right

Hjax: what? working 80 hours for a tshirt isnt worth it?

Hjax: :P

eulerscheZahl: 10 full days for a tshirt and a canvas for him. i don't see the problem

Astrobytes: :smirk:

Hjax: idk i was pretty pleased with my utg tshirt

eulerscheZahl: for UTG he even got a 500€ amazon voucher, didn't he?

reCurse: Trophies are nicer though

eulerscheZahl: agreed. i don't need something that i can easily buy myself in a shop

eulerscheZahl: the tshirt or canvas is more unique, even if it's relatively cheap regarding money

reCurse: Canvas is more unique but doesn't really fit to hang

reCurse: Trophy looks nice in a showcase

eulerscheZahl: i placed the canvas on a free spot on the bookshelf

dbdr: how did you win a canvas? creator?

reCurse: I guess, it's kinda big though

eulerscheZahl: and not in direct sunlight so the colors will stay intact longer

reCurse: Can't make it really fit anyway

eulerscheZahl: yes, creator kutulu and ocean of code

reCurse: Creator and top 3

Astrobytes: You're supposed to hang/put certificates and awards in the toilet, so everyone is forced to look at them at some point ;)

reCurse: That's next level thinking

eulerscheZahl: and at cotc i had really bad luck in the recalc. a really nice schubc asked me for my address and sent my a hypnotoad canvas :D

eulerscheZahl: the pirate hypnotoad i used for the contest

dbdr: wow, nice!

Astrobytes: lol, awesome

eulerscheZahl: wanted to thank him with a double tshirt later on but he never saw my message :(

dbdr: wait, you finished #82

dbdr: I thought you were close to top 3 :D

eulerscheZahl: was around 25 before the recalc

eulerscheZahl: dropped to 91

eulerscheZahl: up to 82 because they removed cheaters

dbdr: just because of luck? :thinking:

eulerscheZahl: submitted the same bot again in the multiplayer, back to ~25

reCurse: :thinking:

reCurse: With 60 missing bots from contest? :)

eulerscheZahl: i still have no idea what was going on in that recalc

eulerscheZahl: i mean i had a rank similar to those who placed around rank 25 in the contest

dbdr: maybe you fare poorly against the leaked code?

dbdr: that would bias things

eulerscheZahl: i had about 50% winrate most of the time during recalc yet kept dropping

eulerscheZahl: even had a lucky streak with winning 2 out of 3 games for about 100 matches, barely climbing. then back to 50% winrate and free fall

dbdr: winrate means very little

eulerscheZahl: too bad we don't get the full recalc history anymore

eulerscheZahl: otherwise we could ask pb 4 about his alternative ranking

reCurse: It's still biased though

reCurse: Especially if the relevant range is missing due to matchmaking

eulerscheZahl: i don't think there's the perfect leaderboard

reCurse: Perfect no, much better yes I think so

eulerscheZahl: true, matchmaking is a relevant point

reCurse: But kind of hard when implementation is blackboxed

eulerscheZahl: i have the code but not sure if he's fine with me sharing it

reCurse: I meant CG's

eulerscheZahl: ah

reCurse: We found bugs in the Halite system thanks to its open source

dbdr: I thought for a second euler has CG's matchmaking code :D

reCurse: For matchmaking

eulerscheZahl: i remember riddles having a flawed matchmaking (surprise, surprise)

eulerscheZahl: i complained, got ignored

dbdr: honestly, I think it might work to create an open source platform

reCurse: Don't make it just take Halite's and work from there

Astrobytes: I guess with CG it's tied in with their business

eulerscheZahl: sounds like a lot of work :sweat:

reCurse: Good luck getting funds though

reCurse: Halite is really up there in quality

eulerscheZahl: hm, forking halite sounds reasonable

dbdr: funds for what? hosting/cpu?

reCurse: Yeah

reCurse: Halite costed in the tens of thousands IIRC

eulerscheZahl: they ran a lot of matches

dbdr: per?

eulerscheZahl: every few minutes and thousands of players

eulerscheZahl: per contest i guess

reCurse: They did have GPU instances though

reCurse: Forgot how much it took from the budget

reCurse: But yeah it's not cheap running those things

reCurse: One thing to be thankful for here

dbdr: sure, it's great CG exists and seem to be stable

eulerscheZahl: other sites come and go. CG hosts less contests now but they keep happening

eulerscheZahl: and all old games still available

reCurse: I miss when contests happened all the time

reCurse: Wish I joined 2 years prior

eulerscheZahl: i also feel like i missed some fun there

dbdr: you would have burned out two years earlier too, ore more ;)

reCurse: Can't say the last 2 years were the best so I'm fine with that

eulerscheZahl: back then there were less strong competitors i think

eulerscheZahl: and earlier burnout would have allowed reCurse to detect poorly designed games earlier and skip them

Illedan: I think the information and sharing has made the general player far better these days..

dbdr: not sure about the general player, but the top ones, probably

Illedan: Because the top ones did read it? :P

Astrobytes: The real turning point was when reCurse taught everyone how to write bit streams :P

eulerscheZahl: that changed my life

reCurse: The infamous stream

reCurse: Never doing that again but I'm glad I did

MSmits: I need to watch that

eulerscheZahl: it's better than GAimax

MSmits: do bits get even better when they're streaming?

Astrobytes: fwiw you were a good streamer

Illedan: The "failed" stream was good too reCurse

Astrobytes: :smirk:

Astrobytes: shhh

dbdr: what was the failed one?

Astrobytes: It doesn't exist.

eulerscheZahl: we don't talk about it

dbdr: reCurse: if only you used assert, you could have gone pro twitcher

reCurse: I gained a lot of respect for streamers

reCurse: Definitely a job

MSmits: lol, you went from no respect to, it's a job

MadKnight: such a funny story

reCurse: I didn't say no respect

MSmits: ok ok

reCurse: But it's one of those things you don't realize how much work it is until you try

reCurse: For me anyway

Illedan: Agreed

dbdr: yeah, and there's a selection bias you mostly see the successful ones, so each to underestimate the difficulty

MSmits: mmh I can see that, I made a few videos and it was a lot of work, streaming is probably more difficult

Illedan: And failing live feels really bad

MSmits: dbdr isn't that true for most creative jobs?

Illedan: What doesn't kill you makes you stronger?

dbdr: I think the effect is magnified online

dbdr: similar to movies and other broadcast art

dbdr: not the case for live art

MSmits: I see

dbdr: but yes, there selection bias in a lot of places

dbdr: startups too, for instance

dbdr: probably 90%+ fail, a lot of talk a lot about the 0.0001% that becomes multibillion companies

MSmits: are you saying that not all startups turn into facebook?

dbdr: :scream:

reCurse: The worst is when people think there's lessons to be learned from it, as if it's something reproducible...

dbdr: to be fair there are probably *some* lessons, if you abstract from the specifics

reCurse: You can't have startups in the billions left and right

dbdr: oh yeah, that's part of my point

dbdr: does not mean there is nothing to learn to increase your chances if you want to try

reCurse: So how much there is to learn is very debatable and probably vastlyoverestimated

reCurse: Because I doubt the founders themselves know everything that came into play and be honest about it

reCurse: A lot of it is luck + timing on top of the huge amount of work needed to have a startup not fail miserably

reCurse: I meant how much you learn with them vs a successful but very low profile startup

reCurse: Did anyone even get in the millions just following in the footsteps of another huge one? shrug

dbdr: just saw this: Is Success Luck or Hard Work?

Hjax: is success luck or hard work? i think the answer is "yes"

jacek: thats my line

dbdr: nothing earth shattering but some good points

reCurse: imo success is hard work, but breaking it big is luck or timing or both

dbdr: came up with a nice simple model to give a quantitative answer

reCurse: But I'll watch thanks

jacek: and again, new tab with random number opened

jacek: and its loading

reCurse: Malicious extension maybe

Astrobytes: It's all that pony stuff you like jacek, it's coming back to bite you

Default avatar.png FlamingPostItNote_2371: hello

jacek: good evening

Default avatar.png lil.ashsz: hi

Default avatar.png maxmanusv1: yo

kovi: interesting video

kovi: unfortunately in many areas luck plays much higher role


jacek: just like the leaderboard

Marchete: luck... and godparents/money

Marchete: at least in many areas or circles

kovi: yeah, research reveals the importance of early supporters/promoters

jacek: meow

jacek: Automaton2000 meow?

Automaton2000: it's too late for me to be able to look at the top

Default avatar.png Whitelegend: Hi everyone, in a test case clash creation, how to set an output to the single char [SPACE] ? any idea ?

jacek: print(" ") ?

Default avatar.png Whitelegend: You mean i have to write [print(" ")] in the output field of the test case ?

jacek: youre contributing the clash?

Default avatar.png Whitelegend: yeah i'm trying to create one

Illedan: Great video dbdr. thx

dbdr: glad you liked it

DomiKo: 30% win rate against Redstrike that's an improvement

Uljahn: liked it too, thx

Stilgart: Automaton2000: what does the turtle say?

Automaton2000: so if you were asking

jacek: so youre gonna like this video

The_Auditor: anybody done the weekly chalange?

Jaek: thanks for reminding me tho xd

Schwase: why is the clash bot so good???

Schwase: that french one is just insane

T1Anias: i have done the weekly

Default avatar.png Ryanless: is there a way to use a real debugger? my code has a nearly impossible to find bug. And just the Console.Log messages don't cut it

The_Auditor: copy the source in your favourite IDE ?

Default avatar.png Ryanless: well i play this bot challenges. So i would still need then to create a game mook that provides input, changes game state, acts on the ouput of code

The_Auditor: ah, i see. the you are stuck with the Console.Log, i think... but i'm new here ... so, what do i know

Xedux: join 1min left


Flyingkid: @Ryanless u don't have to do any of that. Aren't u just debugging? Can just copy inputs given to bot as well (just Console.log them too) and use that as input file in your fave IDE like @The_Auditor suggested.

Xedux: @SuperMuppet

Xedux: can you give your recent clash code ?

Flyingkid: So we're waiting until Novemer 12th show-down time...

Default avatar.png XilinWan: m={'