MadKnight: is anyone still there, Automaton2000 ?
Automaton2000: i have no idea what's that
MadKnight: wow, chat is lagging super badly
MadKnight: [CG]SaiksyApo can u fix it ?
Marchete: hi hi Maddy
Bbaaii: what can i sayyyy except your welcomeeeeeee
Bbaaii: for the sun and the moon and the sky
Bbaaii: hey its ok its ok your welcome
MadKnight: hihi Marchete let's go PM
markyy: I just solved puzzle of the week and reached level 12 weeeeee
markyy: and I enjoyed the puzzle of the week
wlesavo: its a nice one
Xedux: PhantomzBack ?
Xedux: can you give your recent clash code ?
Xedux: PhantomzBack ?
jacek: good afternoon
MSmits: are you working on anything for CG jacek?
jrke: MS how is your endgame solver
MSmits: currently if I try 1000 games, my slowest solve is 140 ms and average is 2 ms
MSmits: (per game)
MSmits: but if i try 10k games, one of them takes 800 ms. It's the really rare games that are super slow
jrke: thats great achievement for now
MSmits: yeah, I got transposition tables to work
MSmits: now it's mostly trying to find the right heuristics. Some heuristics make my solver 10x faster, but are exactl 99% of the time, it's frustrating
MSmits: there's often some rare exception
jrke: yeah exceptions are always there even exceptions have also exceptions
MSmits: yeah, that's what I am talking about mostly. The exceptions to the exceptions... quite rare
MSmits: I could probably ignore them and accept losing those games
MSmits: but I would like it to give an exact score
MSmits: also I am pretty sure there's more theorems and corollaries to explore in those papers that I can use
jrke: you can play those games manually and fix them right?
MSmits: oh, right, that's another option. Possibly the exceptions are so rare, I can hardcode them
MSmits: but not manually, it's too hard to play them manually
MSmits: this is the hardest one of my 10k seeds test
MSmits: looks messy right?
jrke: yeah but its having 3 chains or more?
jrke: can your current heuristic defeats dbdr?
MSmits: the problem is all the splits (joins). It only has 1 isolated chain
MSmits: the length 3 one
MSmits: the rest are strings (as they call them) connected to splits
MSmits: if you play one string on a 3-join, the other 2 strings combine into 1 chain
MSmits: or a string, if it is connected to yet more joins
jrke: really a tough one to get accurate Ai for this particular one
MSmits: yeah, well... I got one that calculates it perfectly I think, though it is hard to test
MSmits: problem is it takes 800 ms now
MSmits: which still helps I guess. I am guessing it can solve within 100 ms, after the first string is opened, so it's not a waste of effort in any case
dbdr: avx it ;)
jrke: yeah optimise code
MSmits: I will do that, but that's a matter of a factor of 2 or 3 at most. It's not enough to get it below 100 ms
MSmits: avx will be almost impossible I think
MSmits: i dont even know what to parallize in a graph
jrke: pragamas are nice way to optimize
MSmits: also I was thinking about using this for a mcts bot, do the solve at the end of the rollout, but that's not feasible
MSmits: currently my average is 2ms per game, so at most 50 rollouts or so
MSmits: not enough to get any good stats
dbdr: quality vs quantity
MSmits: yeah.. so maybe I should just stick with minimax
dbdr: those 50 are worth many more random endgames
MSmits: thats definitely true
MSmits: random seems completely pointless into an endgame
MSmits: it's quite good in the early game though
jrke: but you can not detect random endgame against random or weak bot
MSmits: hmm not sure what you mean
MSmits: do you mean that if the bot plays badly, the endgame will look so different that my solver doesnt apply?
MSmits: I don't think that's true. The only effect a badly playing bot will have is that it is giving away boxes earlier, so the endgames will be smaller (less objects), which in general means it solves faster
jrke: yeah thats true
MSmits: it calculates a score difference
MSmits: so it takes the current score and finds the maximum score on top of that
MSmits: so if you're +10 ahead and it calculates -5, you still win, that's mostly what will happen vs bad bots
MSmits: it also assumes the opponent will play perfectly
MSmits: so the score calculated is always a lower bound
MSmits: it can only get better
jrke: then it will work
MSmits: but that's always true for minimax
MSmits: I want to get it reliably below 100 ms, before I convert it into a live bot though
MSmits: more work to do :)
MSmits: super happy i finally made a minimax with both ab pruning and TT. I just copied the technique from a chess article
dbdr: D&B is a rabbit hole
MSmits: it definitely is
dbdr: which article?
dbdr: well done!
MSmits: Alpha-Beta with Sibling Prediction Pruning in Chess
MSmits: it has a lot of info
MSmits: I guess it is more a book
MSmits: 52 pages
dbdr: dutch :)
MSmits: lol I didn't even see that
MSmits: it's often Dutch isn't it?
MSmits: that's even my university
jrke: going for submit MS?
dbdr: jrke is impatient to see MSmits' bot :)
MSmits: not for a while I think. As I said it still needs improvement. Also on friday i get the key to my new house
MSmits: that will be a lot of work
dbdr: why? a key is not that heavy
MSmits: painting and :poop:
jrke: i will be there for help
MSmits: nahh, you go make more bots.
MSmits: it's awesome you do so well
jrke: im really impatient :)
dbdr: I don't recommend painting with :poop:
dbdr: cheap though
dbdr: it's a tradeoff
MSmits: I think it's actually not that cheap
MSmits: to get enough :poop: for that
jrke: :key: your key is here
dbdr: I don't know, in the right places they might pay you to take away their :poop:
MSmits: I was hoping to leave enough money to pay people to paint and stuff
MSmits: but wife spent most of it already :)
dbdr: reminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaZuBziWLgk
MSmits: funny :)
dbdr: what did she spend it on?
dbdr: actually this one is better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-v1zV8n0cA
MSmits: furniture mostly. I guess we didn't replace it for 13 years so she wanted to get all new stuff
MSmits: floors seem very expensive also
MSmits: and window stuff
dbdr: will have new furniture but no floor? :D
MSmits: no no, got new floors, it just cost several thousand Euros...
jrke: just flying in air
dbdr: attach furniture to the ceiling
dbdr: sounds like a fun house :)
MSmits: heh yeah
MSmits: my openingbook is better than that
dbdr: given the right decoding, that's actually a perfect openingbook
dbdr: MSmits did you investigate the novel parts of that thesis?
dbdr: Sibling Prediction Pruning
DomiKo: can i get link to Euler site with chat history?
DomiKo: I should bookmark it...
dbdr: I made that side, for info :)
jrke: domiko - link
dbdr: that's not chat history
DomiKo: this is not euler's site?
jrke: it is euler site of codingame puzzles
dbdr: : http://eulerschezahl.herokuapp.com/ <http://eulerschezahl.herokuapp.com/codingame/puzzles/> is euler's site of cours, it does not have chat history
DomiKo: yes i know
dbdr: cg.spdns.eu is the community wiki, which I made
DomiKo: I mean cg.spdns
DomiKo: oh ... my bad... I don't know why I thought that was Euler's
dbdr: probably he gave the link :)
DomiKo: now I will remember
MSmits: dbdr, nah i didnt read everything yet. Was just looking to see how to handle updating alpha and beta with TT. It's hard to wrap your head arouns
dbdr: DomiKo, no worries :)
jacek: no need to worry with alpha and beta in jacekmax
MSmits: gamma though, how about gamma?
dbdr: upgrade your keyboard layouts :)
MSmits: that's all I'm gonna try, if it isn't an emote, it isn't worth it
dbdr: it's a letter, why would you need an emote?
dbdr: -- δβδρ
dbdr: and γ⁵
dbdr: thanks to euler for that one
DomiKo: and the best one X Æ A-12
dbdr: what's that?
DomiKo: Musk's kid
Danotris: Lol developers aren't funny
Danotris: I beat Maxime at clash of code
DomiKo: good for you
dbdr: this one's for MSmits: https://xkcd.com/2355/
jacek: long time no see absentbytes
Astrobytes: haha, yeah. Catching up on work, missed a week and ended up with a huge backlog
MSmits: hey... I went to all parties I was invited to in college
MSmits: i mean uni
Astrobytes: But how many were you invited to? :P
MSmits: ooohh so long ago, can't remember :PP
Astrobytes: What's the meta on Dots n Boxes then?
MSmits: I think the bots that are currently on the leaderboard do minimax
MSmits: i was going to do a mcts with a random rollout and a solver at the end of the rollout, but solving is too slow currently
MSmits: average endgame takes 2 ms to solve and some take up to a second almost
MSmits: still looking for better heuristics for the solver, I have some hope left :)
Astrobytes: Cool. It seems quite an interesting problem
Astrobytes: (the game that is)
MSmits: yeah addictive
Astrobytes: haha, they always are :)
Thiesjoo: Hey Msmits do we have any homework for Thursday?
Thiesjoo: Easiest way to contact him :)
DomiKo: that was unexpected
Astrobytes: well played Thiesjoo
jacek: if you want to contact him, just write 3 3 is best opening for yavalath
dbdr: write your message to MSmits at the end of your action after a ';'
Marchete: say that an endgame in D&B doesn't have 3-way boxes
Marchete: triggered :D
MSmits: lol Thiesjoo
MSmits: no homework
Uljahn: could be extra \n
DinuBrat: Тут на русском можно общаться ? )
Uljahn: а то
Uljahn: join #ru
DinuBrat: пасиб )
EveryOS: Guys I am facing an issue It says "only puzzle owners can access this puzzle" instead of showing puzzles And when I reload, it signs me out
Uljahn: which one?
EveryOS: Literally just going on any tab The exact error is: An error occurred (#511): "Only the owner can access puzzles progress".
EveryOS: I also get errors #498 and #522 a few times
DomiKo: there is 1 point gat in Langon between 20 and 21
EveryOS: Well the site isn't working, keep getting error 511, so just gonna close
dbdr: DomiKo, there are even bigger gaps near the top :)
DomiKo: I'm trying to fill them
DomiKo: right now I'm stealing some pruning
jacek: prune array?
DomiKo: Stealing from top10 ;P
dbdr: not sure what you mean
Astrobytes: Prune thief.
dbdr: from the neighbour's tree
DomiKo: I have 0% winrate with some guys, because my heuristic is much worse... and I can't preddict their move
dbdr: hm, with minimax trees make sense :D
DomiKo: so I'm trying to understand which moves they could make
dbdr: if you understand what RedStike does differently...
DomiKo: I wish...
Astrobytes: He still way ahead in Langton?
dbdr: 4 pts above #2
dbdr: in java
Astrobytes: yeah I remember
Astrobytes: What does he use? Does anyone know?
Astrobytes: Algo that is
dbdr: someone said minimax
Astrobytes: Oh really? Interesting
dbdr: I noticed sometimes he ends the game early
Astrobytes: Going off-grid?
Astrobytes: Well, hitting the wall
Astrobytes: Yeah I remember that being a viable strategy. I must fix my Langton bot
Astrobytes: So many games, not enough hours
dbdr: Domiiko: https://www.codingame.com/replay/485851765
dbdr: you timeout
dbdr: https://www.codingame.com/replay/485727767 going out
DomiKo: that's no my current bot
dbdr: but this one does not look that good
DomiKo: I guess
DomiKo: if I cant find battle in last battles
DomiKo: then it have to be my prev version?
eulerscheZahl: "you timeout" that text sounds familiar
DomiKo: ohh yes
DomiKo: half steal from Euler
DomiKo: and top10 for me :D
eulerscheZahl: dude :/
DomiKo: your moves and sometimes so random for me
eulerscheZahl: how did you even do that? i don't even remember myself what i'm doing :D
eulerscheZahl: something like test X cells on the current path and neighboring cells
DomiKo: I'm not sure too
DomiKo: yea i know
DomiKo: everybody do that I guess
DomiKo: but everybody use sometime else
DomiKo: with Redstrike i have a lot of misses
eulerscheZahl: and that causes blind spots for the minimax
eulerscheZahl: redstrike always surprises me. i see that by observing my expected score
DomiKo: I'm using MCTS and that's blind spot too..
DomiKo: its like one random move
DomiKo: and my whole tree is :poop:
dbdr: DomiKo, so you're trying to reverse engineer various players?
jrke: 12 Nov fall challenge yeah just 2 days after my birthday :)
eulerscheZahl: oh, we have a date now?
eulerscheZahl: indeed :o
jrke: yes timer is here check it out
jrke: i just saw it
eulerscheZahl: and it lasts 11 days again
eulerscheZahl: The event starts on Thursday, November 12 at 3 pm UTC and ends on Monday, November 23 at 9 am UTC.
an early start
eulerscheZahl: not the usual 6pm CEST
eulerscheZahl: or CET at that point
dbdr: I guess that's better for east asia
eulerscheZahl: for such a long contest duration i don't really care
jrke: it will be 8:30 pm my country
dbdr: there's just a special feeling on the first day
dbdr: might be strange to wake up to a new contest everyone else has already started
eulerscheZahl: https://imgur.com/a/vwiz0FQ can't join :/
jrke: last time it began at 9:30 pm i.e. 4pm UTC right
dbdr: eulers misses the contest :scream:
eulerscheZahl: and there's a ping on the CG discord announcement channel (@here?) that i can't see for whatever reason
eulerscheZahl: that channel isn't loading
dbdr: yeah, for me too
jrke: i got 1 rank promotion due to euler non participating ;)
eulerscheZahl: nah, you might be able to beat me in a fight ;)
eulerscheZahl: oh, now i could load the message on discord
jrke: i will try my best but i just spended 6 months on coding so i have less experience
eulerscheZahl: and another unofficial "contest" like the one from thibpat
jrke: by whoom is that contest sendme a link if you have any for that
eulerscheZahl: are you on the CG discord?
jrke: yes but not very much active
[CG]Thibaud: oh really, you can't see the channel announcements?
eulerscheZahl: working again now
eulerscheZahl: was lagging for a minute or 2
DomiKo: dbdr yes
eulerscheZahl: but i still can't register to the real contest
[CG]Thibaud: the Fall challenge ?
[CG]Thibaud: or AUtumn AI 2020 ?
dbdr: using heuristics DomiKo? because I think most top players use search...
eulerscheZahl: CODINGAME FALL CHALLENGE 2020
[CG]Thibaud: yeah, just saw your imgur
jrke: is Autumn AI organised by Crypticsy with CG?
eulerscheZahl: that autumn AI is just promoting an existing multiplayer game
aCat: ah, ok, thx for the info
Astrobytes: like the one thibpat did
DomiKo: dbbr I'm using MCTS with heuristic for me and my opponent
Hjax: yay another unofficial contest
Hjax: should be fun :D
dbdr: ah ok, makes sense
eulerscheZahl: can it be PR2 again? :D
Hjax: my pr2 bot has no flaws, its perfect :P
jrke: is multi decided yet?
eulerscheZahl: but not revealed
dbdr: should be one with few participants
Hjax: the announcement said they were going to pick one that most of the people who sign up havent played
Hjax: so i doubt theyve picked one already
eulerscheZahl: ok, TL;DR :P
jrke: can be BotG then
dbdr: whether they have decided or not is like asking if schrodinger's cat is alive before you open the box
Hjax: im not sure which game i want them to pick
dbdr: plot twist: they choose CSB
dbdr: would be an occasion for me to do it :D
Hjax: are you going to play this contest?
jrke: yeah dbdr is not in CSB arena
dbdr: not esp motivated, but I might if I haven't done the multi
jrke: but i can't update my CSB bot now
Hjax: you are pretty high up on the "people who will smoke me in a multi" list :P
jrke: bored by doing CSB continously by last 5 months
Hjax: my csb is just the silly oneliner thing
eulerscheZahl: my CSB doesn't know how collisions work
jrke: my CSB bot doesn't know whats collab ;)
jrke: its having single pod simulation not combined
eulerscheZahl: much easier for PCR: you don't collide, you merge
reCurse: Except when you do collide
Hjax: theres a few games ive wanted to play but never really worked much on
jrke: i will like OOC
eulerscheZahl: same mass is rare enough to be ignored :P
reCurse: Rare enough except when it's not (the first 10-15 frames)
dbdr: that's why you have a bad rank eulerscheZahl ;)
**dbdr needs to check euler's rank
eulerscheZahl: just kidding, I handle this case
Hjax: locm would be fun
**eulerscheZahl is below dbdr
eulerscheZahl: wait, i won't join that "contest" anyways, so go ahead
dbdr: but you still have a decent rank
reCurse: I can tell you didn't try locm since you have this opinion
dbdr: ah no, below Illedan, not decent
eulerscheZahl: now you summoned him, see what you've done!
dbdr: just trolling euler, don't worry Illedan :)
Illedan: I'm looking at the glorious counter for the next contest
dbdr: oh, another rust in top 10 on PCR, gg tomatoes
Illedan: Time to apply for some vacation days
dbdr: and top 3 looks like a toss up
eulerscheZahl: i usually take off really shortly. like: have a nice weekend, btw i'll be away next week
eulerscheZahl: so far no one complained :D
reCurse: Also gives you the leeway to ragequit if it's with fog of war again
Hjax: ^ pacman made me ragequit :(
Illedan: No problem if I just show up to work anyway
eulerscheZahl: yes, good thing it starts on a thursday again
dbdr: eulerscheZahl: wow, that sounds unusual for employees, no?
reCurse: With WFH no one knows you're working on the contest anyway
eulerscheZahl: be boss is really chill as long as i get my stuff done
Hjax: my usual pattern is to go to work anyway, and be very unproductive as i think about the game all day
Hjax: and then go home and implement my ideas
eulerscheZahl: i wonder when RAIC will take place
reCurse: Next contest needs to be fog of war, incomplete inputs, 4 players and fixed start state.
reCurse: Then I might ragequit enough to delete my account :p
Hjax: needs a random element too
reCurse: I like you
eulerscheZahl: have you been struct all along?
Astrobytes: speaking of whom, is he back yet?
Illedan: And cooperation
dbdr: I think the SDK supports 8 players
eulerscheZahl: yes, it does :)
Hjax: 4v4 moba, fog of war, random item drops
Astrobytes: I don't think I'd even open the IDE if it were 8 players
eulerscheZahl: but RAIC had a contest with 10, coop with 5 players per team
Illedan: What about that BACK command from BTTC?
eulerscheZahl: dota-like contest
reCurse: I'm starting to think contest designers are not optimizing for fun but for torture
[CG]Thibaud: registration should be fixed eulerscheZahl
eulerscheZahl: thanks, i'm registered now
dbdr: damn, one place in the 4-10 range is taken
Hjax: i wonder if teccles will return for the fall contest
eulerscheZahl: to claim #2?
Hjax: as is tradition
Astrobytes: didn't he say he was done with contests?
Hjax: maybe he will change his mind
MadKnight: why did he say that ?
MadKnight: what happened to him, Automaton2000 ?
Automaton2000: like it was in the middle of the game
eulerscheZahl: MK are you done with contests?
Astrobytes: Something about the time investment not being worth it
Astrobytes: Oh hey MK
reCurse: He's definitely right
Hjax: what? working 80 hours for a tshirt isnt worth it?
eulerscheZahl: 10 full days for a tshirt and a canvas for him. i don't see the problem
Hjax: idk i was pretty pleased with my utg tshirt
eulerscheZahl: for UTG he even got a 500€ amazon voucher, didn't he?
reCurse: Trophies are nicer though
eulerscheZahl: agreed. i don't need something that i can easily buy myself in a shop
eulerscheZahl: the tshirt or canvas is more unique, even if it's relatively cheap regarding money
reCurse: Canvas is more unique but doesn't really fit to hang
reCurse: Trophy looks nice in a showcase
eulerscheZahl: i placed the canvas on a free spot on the bookshelf
dbdr: how did you win a canvas? creator?
reCurse: I guess, it's kinda big though
eulerscheZahl: and not in direct sunlight so the colors will stay intact longer
reCurse: Can't make it really fit anyway
eulerscheZahl: yes, creator kutulu and ocean of code
reCurse: Creator and top 3
Astrobytes: You're supposed to hang/put certificates and awards in the toilet, so everyone is forced to look at them at some point ;)
reCurse: That's next level thinking
eulerscheZahl: and at cotc i had really bad luck in the recalc. a really nice schubc asked me for my address and sent my a hypnotoad canvas :D
eulerscheZahl: the pirate hypnotoad i used for the contest
dbdr: wow, nice!
Astrobytes: lol, awesome
eulerscheZahl: wanted to thank him with a double tshirt later on but he never saw my message :(
dbdr: wait, you finished #82
dbdr: I thought you were close to top 3 :D
eulerscheZahl: was around 25 before the recalc
eulerscheZahl: dropped to 91
eulerscheZahl: up to 82 because they removed cheaters
dbdr: just because of luck? :thinking:
eulerscheZahl: submitted the same bot again in the multiplayer, back to ~25
reCurse: With 60 missing bots from contest? :)
eulerscheZahl: i still have no idea what was going on in that recalc
eulerscheZahl: i mean i had a rank similar to those who placed around rank 25 in the contest
dbdr: maybe you fare poorly against the leaked code?
dbdr: that would bias things
eulerscheZahl: i had about 50% winrate most of the time during recalc yet kept dropping
eulerscheZahl: even had a lucky streak with winning 2 out of 3 games for about 100 matches, barely climbing. then back to 50% winrate and free fall
dbdr: winrate means very little
eulerscheZahl: too bad we don't get the full recalc history anymore
eulerscheZahl: otherwise we could ask pb 4 about his alternative ranking
reCurse: It's still biased though
reCurse: Especially if the relevant range is missing due to matchmaking
eulerscheZahl: i don't think there's the perfect leaderboard
reCurse: Perfect no, much better yes I think so
eulerscheZahl: true, matchmaking is a relevant point
reCurse: But kind of hard when implementation is blackboxed
eulerscheZahl: i have the code but not sure if he's fine with me sharing it
reCurse: I meant CG's
reCurse: We found bugs in the Halite system thanks to its open source
dbdr: I thought for a second euler has CG's matchmaking code :D
reCurse: For matchmaking
eulerscheZahl: i remember riddles having a flawed matchmaking (surprise, surprise)
eulerscheZahl: i complained, got ignored
dbdr: honestly, I think it might work to create an open source platform
reCurse: Don't make it just take Halite's and work from there
Astrobytes: I guess with CG it's tied in with their business
eulerscheZahl: sounds like a lot of work :sweat:
reCurse: Good luck getting funds though
reCurse: Halite is really up there in quality
eulerscheZahl: hm, forking halite sounds reasonable
dbdr: funds for what? hosting/cpu?
reCurse: Halite costed in the tens of thousands IIRC
eulerscheZahl: they ran a lot of matches
eulerscheZahl: every few minutes and thousands of players
eulerscheZahl: per contest i guess
reCurse: They did have GPU instances though
reCurse: Forgot how much it took from the budget
reCurse: But yeah it's not cheap running those things
reCurse: One thing to be thankful for here
dbdr: sure, it's great CG exists and seem to be stable
eulerscheZahl: other sites come and go. CG hosts less contests now but they keep happening
eulerscheZahl: and all old games still available
reCurse: I miss when contests happened all the time
reCurse: Wish I joined 2 years prior
eulerscheZahl: i also feel like i missed some fun there
dbdr: you would have burned out two years earlier too, ore more ;)
reCurse: Can't say the last 2 years were the best so I'm fine with that
eulerscheZahl: back then there were less strong competitors i think
eulerscheZahl: and earlier burnout would have allowed reCurse to detect poorly designed games earlier and skip them
Illedan: I think the information and sharing has made the general player far better these days..
dbdr: not sure about the general player, but the top ones, probably
Illedan: Because the top ones did read it? :P
Astrobytes: The real turning point was when reCurse taught everyone how to write bit streams :P
eulerscheZahl: that changed my life
reCurse: The infamous stream
reCurse: Never doing that again but I'm glad I did
MSmits: I need to watch that
eulerscheZahl: it's better than GAimax
MSmits: do bits get even better when they're streaming?
Astrobytes: fwiw you were a good streamer
Illedan: The "failed" stream was good too reCurse
dbdr: what was the failed one?
Astrobytes: It doesn't exist.
eulerscheZahl: we don't talk about it
dbdr: reCurse: if only you used assert, you could have gone pro twitcher
reCurse: I gained a lot of respect for streamers
reCurse: Definitely a job
MSmits: lol, you went from no respect to, it's a job
MadKnight: such a funny story
reCurse: I didn't say no respect
MSmits: ok ok
reCurse: But it's one of those things you don't realize how much work it is until you try
reCurse: For me anyway
dbdr: yeah, and there's a selection bias you mostly see the successful ones, so each to underestimate the difficulty
MSmits: mmh I can see that, I made a few videos and it was a lot of work, streaming is probably more difficult
Illedan: And failing live feels really bad
MSmits: dbdr isn't that true for most creative jobs?
Illedan: What doesn't kill you makes you stronger?
dbdr: I think the effect is magnified online
dbdr: similar to movies and other broadcast art
dbdr: not the case for live art
MSmits: I see
dbdr: but yes, there selection bias in a lot of places
dbdr: startups too, for instance
dbdr: probably 90%+ fail, a lot of talk a lot about the 0.0001% that becomes multibillion companies
MSmits: are you saying that not all startups turn into facebook?
reCurse: The worst is when people think there's lessons to be learned from it, as if it's something reproducible...
dbdr: to be fair there are probably *some* lessons, if you abstract from the specifics
reCurse: You can't have startups in the billions left and right
dbdr: oh yeah, that's part of my point
dbdr: does not mean there is nothing to learn to increase your chances if you want to try
reCurse: So how much there is to learn is very debatable and probably vastlyoverestimated
reCurse: Because I doubt the founders themselves know everything that came into play and be honest about it
reCurse: A lot of it is luck + timing on top of the huge amount of work needed to have a startup not fail miserably
reCurse: I meant how much you learn with them vs a successful but very low profile startup
reCurse: Did anyone even get in the millions just following in the footsteps of another huge one? shrug
dbdr: just saw this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LopI4YeC4I Is Success Luck or Hard Work?
Hjax: is success luck or hard work? i think the answer is "yes"
jacek: thats my line
dbdr: nothing earth shattering but some good points
reCurse: imo success is hard work, but breaking it big is luck or timing or both
dbdr: came up with a nice simple model to give a quantitative answer
reCurse: But I'll watch thanks
jacek: and again, new tab with random number opened
jacek: and its loading
reCurse: Malicious extension maybe
Astrobytes: It's all that pony stuff you like jacek, it's coming back to bite you
jacek: good evening
kovi: interesting video
kovi: unfortunately in many areas luck plays much higher role
jacek: just like the leaderboard
Marchete: luck... and godparents/money
Marchete: at least in many areas or circles
kovi: yeah, research reveals the importance of early supporters/promoters
jacek: Automaton2000 meow?
Automaton2000: it's too late for me to be able to look at the top
jacek: print(" ") ?
jacek: youre contributing the clash?
Illedan: Great video dbdr. thx
dbdr: glad you liked it
DomiKo: 30% win rate against Redstrike that's an improvement
Uljahn: liked it too, thx
Stilgart: Automaton2000: what does the turtle say?
Automaton2000: so if you were asking
jacek: so youre gonna like this video https://ujeb.se/YFyM
The_Auditor: anybody done the weekly chalange?
Jaek: thanks for reminding me tho xd
Schwase: why is the clash bot so good???
Schwase: that french one is just insane
T1Anias: i have done the weekly
The_Auditor: copy the source in your favourite IDE ?
The_Auditor: ah, i see. the you are stuck with the Console.Log, i think... but i'm new here ... so, what do i know
Xedux: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/1371522ee3bd7f0c801114087864530c806866c join 1min left
Flyingkid: @Ryanless u don't have to do any of that. Aren't u just debugging? Can just copy inputs given to bot as well (just Console.log them too) and use that as input file in your fave IDE like @The_Auditor suggested.
Xedux: can you give your recent clash code ?
Flyingkid: So we're waiting until Novemer 12th show-down time...