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eulerscheZahl: hi WINWINWIN, haven't seen you in a while

nothing new about the contest

InfinityIQ: hi everyone

AsianCutie: hi everything

IfIHadATail: o/

WINWINWIN: Yeah, JEE preparation, so only log in occasionally during online school :P



jacek: ...

Default avatar.png alirezadigi2:

Default avatar.png alirezadigi2:

Default avatar.png alirezadigi2:

Default avatar.png alirezadigi2: :nerd:

eulerscheZahl: please stop sending clash of code invites here. go to #clash

eulerscheZahl: (i need a macro for this one...)

Default avatar.png LoganWick: How is this website made?

jacek: with tears and blood

FoXbOw: well noted Euler :)

FoXbOw: not aware about the channels

Default avatar.png alirezadigi2:

Uljahn: i guess desired behavior for coc link sharing should be stated straight on the coc page or it never ends, also promoting the #clash channel could be a good idea :/

jacek: could clash links be censored? with msg saying it should go to #clash

Default avatar.png alirezadigi2: Im sorry I didnt know that!

aCat: hi euler

aCat: can you provide an extension of your list of puzzles easy to language-achievement-spamming?

eulerscheZahl: so you solved those i was suggesting?

eulerscheZahl: that has 2 parts solvable by the same code

eulerscheZahl: same here:

eulerscheZahl: not directly easy to solve. but once you solved it, the code is easy enough to convert

aCat: I had eggo problem solved in python2 so my code is locked ;p

aCat: I spammed onboarding, rubik and A*craft :D

aCat: and noted simple official easy CG puzzles as marslandr :D

eulerscheZahl: while True: print("0 3\n0 4")

aCat: yeah, I gave you upvote ;p

eulerscheZahl: :D

aCat: damn hungry duck I also have locked

eulerscheZahl: why did you use a deprecated language? :P


aCat: cause it was not deprecated when I was doing them ;p

eulerscheZahl: same game: i fail to find the list of best known scores you mentioned


aCat: - this is probably one of the latest updates, but some more will appear at MCS 2020

eulerscheZahl: wow. i'm at 48.8k on submit

eulerscheZahl: and that's with doubled testcases

Illedan: Mornin

aCat: hello

Illedan: I wonder how they decided on that 200 char limit for the Quest map, on Don't panic -.-

eulerscheZahl: they took you-1

eulerscheZahl: spoiler:exactly 200 is enough already

eulerscheZahl: spoiler 2: you shouldn't use C# on this one

eulerscheZahl: great, Thibaud is back

Illedan: Yeah, I figured :P

Illedan: But was wondering if it was possible without invoking a different language

eulerscheZahl: in C#?

Illedan: yeah

eulerscheZahl: dbdr mentioned not doing any cheap tricks of that kind

eulerscheZahl: has 176 in C#

Illedan: hmm

eulerscheZahl: me: 188 in python

eulerscheZahl: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

dbdr: :)

Illedan: xD

dbdr: you can do <200 in Java too

Illedan: ...

Illedan: oooh

Illedan: I can use local functions in C# now

Illedan: :tada:

eulerscheZahl: i wait until i don't have to declare a Main function anymore

Illedan: ^^^

eulerscheZahl: saw that as a draft, not sure if it will happen

Illedan: CG should create their own wrapper

dbdr: if the source file is "¤DP", the program will solve's Don't Panic puzzle

Illedan: Let me use NuGet in my CG projects and I'll push packages solving everything :evil:

dbdr: too much overhead to import it

Illedan: true

Illedan: At 390 chars.. Going down slooowly -.-

dbdr: <200 is possible in C# and Java, but it's not especially easy

dbdr: if that's your goal, a scripting language is probably a better idea

eulerscheZahl: will it pass any testcase or just the ones provided?

eulerscheZahl: my python assumes max 9 rows, other than that it should be always working

dbdr: need to check :)

dbdr: not any testcase

dbdr: does your python work for the upper limit of every constraint under 100ms? ;)

eulerscheZahl: i don't even remember what the constraints are

dbdr: 1 ≤ nbFloors ≤ 15 5 ≤ width ≤ 100 10 ≤ nbRounds ≤ 200 0 ≤ exitFloor, elevatorFloor < nbFloors 0 ≤ exitPos , elevatorPos < width -1 ≤ cloneFloor < nbFloors -1 ≤ clonePos < width 2 ≤ nbTotalClones ≤ 50 0 ≤ nbElevators ≤ 100 Duration of one game turn: 100 ms

eulerscheZahl: but i did nothing fishy i wouldn't do in a non-golf puzzle

dbdr: no need to be fishy if it's too slow

eulerscheZahl: should be fine

eulerscheZahl: that's part 1, while part 2 is the hard one CPU-wise

eulerscheZahl: building new elevators

dbdr: well, there could be cases that can be solvable with an optimal solution, not a greedy one

dbdr: that should be intensive

dbdr: optimal looks exponentially hard to me

eulerscheZahl: are we talking about the same problem?

dbdr: why not?

eulerscheZahl: there's only 1 elevator per floor, you have to decide if you have to change direction to reach it

dbdr: ah, didn't know about this constraint

eulerscheZahl: a working solution will always be optimal as it's unique

dbdr: wat?

eulerscheZahl: there is only 1 solution

dbdr: if you move a blocker by one, it can still be solution

dbdr: so it's not unique

eulerscheZahl: d'oh

eulerscheZahl: forget the last thing i wrote

eulerscheZahl: but still it's easy to find a shortest solution

dbdr: it's possible a greedy solution can be unique with that constraint, yes

eulerscheZahl: shortest path, not code

dbdr: yes, minimal number of blockers, if you need to change directions

eulerscheZahl: so: let's turn it into a harder community puzzle :P

eulerscheZahl: Do panic

dbdr: :D

dbdr: is there a version with multiple elevators per floor already?

dbdr: I think a "PANIC" action would be cool

dbdr: could replace BLOCK. when you panic, other clones turns away

dbdr: just need a crazy animation

dbdr: can we include a towel too?


eulerscheZahl: should have linked the article for those who don't know Southpark that well

eulerscheZahl: at don't panic too I think you have to build elevators on floor despite there already being one (shorten the path)

dbdr: *don't panic either /s

Marchete: struct closed his account?

Marchete: yavalath is anonymous

jacek: yavalath is older

jrke: but in othello its showing by struct

jacek: yinsh still has struct as contributor

eulerscheZahl: but where is struct himself?

eulerscheZahl: missing for almost a month now

jacek: so now he is destruct

jrke: nope i think he is class

jrke: what was the general rank of struct

jrke: ?

Default avatar.png Phenomz: which boss u guys at?

jrke: boss??

Default avatar.png Phenomz: oh nvm i thought it was the chat for what we're currently doing

Default avatar.png Phenomz: XD

Default avatar.png ditsche: if i join a clash i get alot of captchas, is there something i can do to get rid of them?

SPDene: stop doing clashes for a while

jrke: nope captchas are to prevent bot clashers so basically its for your goodness

jacek: write bot to solve captchas :v

jrke: Or do this ^ Oo

eulerscheZahl: pay someone to solve captchas for you

jacek: or invite mod to the clash

Astrobytes: Or ban jacek

jrke: or don't play clashes for few hours

Default avatar.png ditsche: ^ that's exactly what a bot would do

jrke: yep

SydM107: oh boy, I feel dumb I forgot that in C x^2 is x xor 2 not x*x

MSmits: hey, I have an interesting mcts issue

MSmits: say you're using transpositions in mcts (which can be messy)

MSmits: there is no particular reason not to use a node, that was meant to be used by player 1, by player 2 is there? If he is in the same state p1 was?

MSmits: since the nodes gather statistics that tell you if that state is good or bad, it's true whether p1 is in that state or p2 is. The state being the full state of course, just mirrored

MSmits: it's similar to using the same node in a symmetric state, only now it's symmetric between players

MSmits: let me know if this sounds wrong to you :P

jacek: so you want extend board inversion value to the transposition table

MSmits: well it seems natural. If I am storing p1 and p2 the same way anyway, they can also share nodes

MSmits: it will be pretty rare that they are in the same state of course

MSmits: but it saves me from having to store who's turn it is

MSmits: i just store the player who's turn it is as the first board

jacek: theoretically sounds good but it will occur rarely during actual game. but if its gonna help your particular implementation, why not.

MSmits: hmm ok, cool. Transpositions seem good in breakthrough because the overhead from storing the states is small

jacek: there are many transposition in breakthrough

MSmits: I store when i expand and because 1 expansion adds so many children you dont do it as often as say, in oware

MSmits: that too

MSmits: my only problem is memory. At some point I run out of node pool and reset my node pool. By that time the transpositions become invalid because I may be overwriting series of children that the transposition map points to

jacek: but im also thinking move grouping. many moves have practically the same score

jacek: and thats not traposition

MSmits: you mean doing this on expansion?

MSmits: that's possible

MSmits: it's basically pruning

jacek: nah just thinking out loud

MSmits: if 5 moves are equally good, only pick 1 as a possibility

MSmits: I do this in some games. For example CSB

MSmits: CSB has equivalent series of moves

jacek: right

MSmits: (turn left, then turn right is the same as not turning)

jacek: the same goes for capture sequence on the same square

jacek: with multiple captures

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: ohh crap, I forgot something

MSmits: if i do this transposition player thing, I do have to switch the stored gamestate on the nodes as well, not just the keys in the transposition map :P

MSmits: otherwise when reusing the node by the other player, it's gonna have all boardstates for its children reversed

MSmits: more complicated than I thought

Default avatar.png AndreiHarsia: :grinning:

jacek: good thing im so slow, no need for memory pool tricks

MSmits: yeah it's annoying sometimes

jacek: yes, its annoying being the best all the time

jacek: oh, train accident in scotland

MSmits: cant find anything about that?

Astrobytes: Yeah, up Stonehaven way

Astrobytes: (near Aberdeen)

eulerscheZahl: new optim approved: same game

MSmits: what optim?

Astrobytes: Same Game

jacek: the same?

MSmits: ow lol

MSmits: eulerscheZahl did that on purpose

eulerscheZahl: but in this version of the game you have to play as bad as you can it seems

jacek: so youre perfect

MSmits: is this why you are at nr 1 euler?

MSmits: :P

eulerscheZahl: was 2nd

eulerscheZahl: but now i'm at #1 in this game

MSmits: confusing

jacek: less is better?

jacek: is it time?

eulerscheZahl: i already informed aCat on discord that it's the wrong order

jacek: who approved this

MSmits: Approved by radekmie Zylo hoggi

jacek: poland stronk

eulerscheZahl: not me. I wanted more testcases. not twice the same

jacek: but its same game

eulerscheZahl: not same testcase

Default avatar.png Memo12334: anyone knows if there is a walkthrough for detective pikaptcha ep2?

MSmits: mmh it's not really an adventure game, I don't think we have any walkthroughs :P

Default avatar.png Memo12334: would be my last easy challenge before I do other stuff on CG but I can't solve it

MSmits: what are you stuck on?

Default avatar.png Memo12334: I just don't know what to do with the directions and which wall to follow

MSmits: ill see what i did for ep 2

Default avatar.png Memo12334: I don't understand the probelm completely at all

MSmits: pikaptcha walks along a wall and you have to count how many times he steps on a cell

MSmits: sometimes he follows right wall, sometimes left

MSmits: depends on the input


RoboStac: but stop when you get back to the start again instead of an exit

eulerscheZahl: maybe a replay helps to explain the idea

Default avatar.png Memo12334: I only get one wall input for every test case right

eulerscheZahl: you get the full map

MSmits: Memo12334 it's not a turnbased thingy. You get the full map and have to predict the full future

MSmits: so you dont get new input that tells you pikaptchas new surroundings on anything. You have to simulate that all on your own

Default avatar.png Memo12334: ty , im going to read the wikipedia page from RoboStac and try to solve it

MSmits: I would not say this is an easy puzzle btw, it's more like medium

MSmits: it's easy if you're used to making simulations in games, which you do in bot games all the time, but if you've just been doing easy puzzles, it's not

MSmits: good practice though

Default avatar.png Memo12334: yes I like these kind of puzzles where I have to resereach algorithms that I can use.

Default avatar.png Memo12334: 0 exp tho

Astrobytes: lol, what an awesome bug that is (the same game one)

MSmits: I thought you get some xp for the community puzzles?

Default avatar.png Memo12334: oh not that exp

Astrobytes: There's XP and CP

eulerscheZahl: he has no personal experience on that field, regardless of what CG gives credits for

Default avatar.png Memo12334: exactly

MSmits: ahh

Astrobytes: Oh I see

Astrobytes: We're so CG-ified

Astrobytes: sorry

eulerscheZahl: Astrobytes that score looks like always finding the largest group on Same Game, isn't it?

MSmits: beamsearch seems great here

eulerscheZahl: I might go with Chokudai

MSmits: dont remember what that was exactly

Astrobytes: Hm, possible

eulerscheZahl: similar to beam. but extending the size instead of depth

eulerscheZahl: size = width

MSmits: like best first search?

Astrobytes: I was thinking to try Cegimax with Prune Array, personally

eulerscheZahl: yeah MSmits

eulerscheZahl: where's ceg himself?

Astrobytes: NRPA seems pretty good too, was reading some paper the other day

eulerscheZahl: acat linked that paper

Astrobytes: He was around the other day, back from whatever was keeping him busy

Astrobytes: Yeah that one


Astrobytes: There're some others too


eulerscheZahl: that's a troll link MSmits

MSmits: ah so thats just mcts

MSmits: I know :P

MSmits: the link is meant to say: huh ?

MSmits: I guess mcts works fine here

jacek: and your favourite variant: meta (nested) mcts

MSmits: do you mean people will run this offline?

MSmits: validators will be public/

MSmits: ?

jacek: i meant online meta mcts

jacek: at some puzzle games its better than pure mcts

jacek: even in real time

MSmits: oh

MSmits: interesting


MSmits: hmm this seems similar to just running multiple random rollouts during selection and expansion

darkhorse64: Last at SameGame with the best score ? Is that the misère version ?

eulerscheZahl: yes MSmits: validators are public. and it's 20 testcases, each appearing twice

eulerscheZahl: i have a 48.806 score for the protocol

eulerscheZahl: and I DMed aCat

darkhorse64: OK. Scores are wrong then ?

eulerscheZahl: it's just the config.ini where you have to replace an ascending by descending

eulerscheZahl: linking to my own game as aCat didn't link a github for his. same principle

darkhorse64: Makes sense

MSmits: eulerscheZahl do you mean that the 10 testcases that we see, appear twice as validators?

MSmits: or are the validators different? If so, where are they?

MSmits: ohh I see it

MSmits: they are the same as the human playable game linked in the description

eulerscheZahl: you can select a game here

eulerscheZahl: "presetting"

MSmits: sorry, i should have figured it out 3 seconds earlier :P

eulerscheZahl: 20 games. each appears twice as a validator

MSmits: silly

eulerscheZahl: while I tried to argue against it, someone else game the 3rd approval vote :/

MSmits: whats the reason for it?

MSmits: that it needs arguing?

eulerscheZahl: these 20 testcases are "common tests"

eulerscheZahl: so you can find scores for them on papers

MSmits: right

eulerscheZahl: i wanted 20 random tests in addition. but that would make it harder to compare scores with papers

eulerscheZahl: at least for the global leaderboard

MSmits: true

MSmits: so the random tests are in there, but they are the same as the original

eulerscheZahl: one could still make each individual testcase publicly playable in the IDE in addition to submit validator

MSmits: right

eulerscheZahl: there are no random tests

MSmits: but why do they appear twice then?

eulerscheZahl: just the common testsets again with different colors (swap green with red or whatever)

MSmits: whats the point of that?

eulerscheZahl: that's what I was arguing about

eulerscheZahl: my point: you still only have to hardcode 20 testcases if you play offline. and same score for deterministic solver

MSmits: I can define my bot to define colors as when they first appear

eulerscheZahl: aCat: but different for random solver when running online

MSmits: which means its immune to any change in color setting

eulerscheZahl: and then deus ex machina: 3rd approval vote

MSmits: right

Astrobytes: If only there was some kind of "Pause Contribution" feature, pending further discussion

MSmits: it would not be different with random solver

Astrobytes: Without having to revert back to WIP etc

MSmits: if you define colors the way i just explained

MSmits: if the first color that appears is always red, even if the game defines it as blue, then colors will be the same

MSmits: or wait, do the points also differ?

MSmits: by color i mean?

eulerscheZahl: random search count yield different results when getting a different seed or about of simulations

MSmits: oh right, the time thingy

eulerscheZahl: it's exactly the same testcase again if you substitute the colors

MSmits: right, seems silly

eulerscheZahl: my point!

eulerscheZahl: i was more diplomatic

MSmits: silly is pretty diplomatic here I think

eulerscheZahl: :D

MSmits: well it looks like I have an excuse to write another meta mcts

eulerscheZahl: oh no!

jacek: meta metamcts?

MSmits: currently running oware and breakthrough, but noone seems to be resubmitting breakthrough

MSmits: so i can switch it out

MSmits: wait

MSmits: i mean othello

MSmits: not breakthrough lol

MSmits: dont have that (yet)

jacek: there are 2 common breakthrough openings

eulerscheZahl: how much CPU time do you spend on these games on average?

MSmits: i saw it yeah

MSmits: eulerscheZahl hmm 2 cores, 12 hrs a day or so

jacek: yet my bot prefers the mix of the two o.O

MSmits: havent paid too much attention to it, i saw its usually taking a pawn from the edge?

jacek: yes, and make row hole in the middle

wlesavo: it would actually even be an ok multi

MSmits: hmm ok

MSmits: wlesavo you mean taking turns picking a cell?

wlesavo: yeah

MSmits: interesting

wlesavo: with mirrored games

eulerscheZahl: mirrored, yeah...

MSmits: or just randomized maps

eulerscheZahl: well, might even be doable. i think i saw something like that in the SDK

MSmits: like bandas

eulerscheZahl: and it should be possible to replace parts of it to allow swapping

wlesavo: well yeah, maybe mirror is not a requirement

MSmits: you can also do some tests and figure out p1 advantage and just give p2 a bonus

MSmits: or do pie rule, even better

MSmits: well my TT version of breakthrough is worse :(

MSmits: no crashing, works fine, but just ranks lower, no idea why

MSmits: only game where i was able to make it work to use TT in mcts is yavalath so far, even then it was questionable whether it was actually better

wlesavo: map generation should be reliable for multi though, pure random would be bad in general, because of the maps with only a few moves, which would be decided in a few turns

MSmits: true, not sure how likely that would be with this game

MSmits: you might also just use 1 basic map

MSmits: if it's a good one

MSmits: like boardgames do

MSmits: but then you risk people writing opening books of course

wlesavo: you can fill some parts of the map by tetris-like shapes and the other parts by random or smth like that

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: bandas was improved also, when it was pure random it would give bad maps sometimes

MSmits: and maps are still pretty bad sometimes

field3: breakthrough algorithm to remember. If there are three pieces facing each other, raise the middle.:relaxed:

darkhorse64: Same for chess. It's been a known combination for one century

darkhorse64: Re samegame. I think known validators really spoil the fun (making it with severe time and space constraints)

MSmits: hmm not sure, it's possible that a better algorithm might be a million times more important than more computation time

MSmits: these guys describe something like that:



Hjax: isnt thinking twice as long only worth like, 10 elo to stockfish?

MSmits: i think it depends a lot on the domain,

MSmits: we saw this in numbershifting also.

MSmits: many different possible algorithms and they all got stuck at some level, the levels varied dramatically

darkhorse64: New challenge: beat other algos within 30s running time

MSmits: kinda hard to enforce

MSmits: the annoying thing with trying to keep validators secret is that you always risk them being reverse engineered

MSmits: for the validators I can do: If cell x == green on first turn, break and check which validator fails

MSmits: just submit a few 100 times

MSmits: and i got them

Hjax: i considered doing that for one of the code golf games

Hjax: but then decided it wasnt worth the effort

MSmits: sure, but they should have enough testcases that even if they are known, you'd need too many characters to hardcode them

MSmits: if that's not the case, then it's a bad code golf

MSmits: you cant do that for optimization games

MSmits: no matter what you do, there's ways to reverse the opening gamestate

MSmits: even continuous games. You can do things like if "first digit of x position of first creature == 5"

MSmits: but could be a lot of work yeah

jacek: you just want to book a solo game

cheeze2000: :flag_pt:

cheeze2000: :flag_pt::flag_pt::flag_pt:

MSmits: maybe :)

AllYourPellets: is rust code compiled with --release flag?

AllYourPellets: i'm seeing different performance numbers in ide vs submitted code

jacek: its debug in ide

jacek: thats why i cant test against dbdr in breakthrough :f

AllYourPellets: its weird because i lose a game on the leaderboard, copy it to the ide and then win it... im seeing better performance in ide

jacek: huh? it should be release in leaderboard and debug in ide

AllYourPellets: oh wait there was an extra number

AllYourPellets: nvm

Hjax: yeah rust in ide is painful

Hjax: i hope they fix it, makes testing a huge pain

Hjax: no one can test against me, but i cant test against anyone

AllYourPellets: hmm anyone have any ideas how i lose in release mode because of timeout but then win in ide test?

Hjax: infinite loop if you run too long maybe?

Hjax: or some weird slowdown from running too long

jacek: is it really timeout or crash

Hjax: ^ good point

AllYourPellets: it says time limit exceeded

AllYourPellets: theres no crash info in the output

AllYourPellets: how can i tell?

jacek: then maybe it is really timeout

jacek: most games say timeout in any ocassion

Hjax: if you can, try to replicate the game locally

Hjax: and see what happens

Hjax: ill upload a dummy bot that prints its IO to stderr

Hjax: and then copy paste to my local bot

Hjax: and step through with a debugger

AllYourPellets: good idea

AllYourPellets: hmm is there a way to tell how much memory you are using?

AllYourPellets: maybe im hitting the memory limit

jacek: its 768MB

AllYourPellets: yeah on my local machine im surpassing that, that's gotta be it

cheeze2000: :flag_pt:

Hjax: seems like a reasonable explanation

Hjax: cheeze2000 nice toko profile pic

cheeze2000: ty

Default avatar.png JaggBow: hello everyone, I hope you're well. For some reason CoC gives me 75% success rate after htting send when I have already check all testcases and they're all correct, someone had this issue before?

jacek: there are more testcases after submit

jacek: so you cant hardcode the solution

Hjax: yeah the test cases in the IDE and the validators when you submit are different

Default avatar.png JaggBow: Ah okay didn't know that, thanks !

Astrobytes: Hey, how come my Same Game score didn't update? It's stuck at 8860, when I got 10018

eulerscheZahl: uno reverse card

eulerscheZahl: you have to get a lower score, check the order on the leaderboard

Astrobytes: Oh right, right. I misunderstood the earlier bug

**eulerscheZahl didn't approve it :P

Astrobytes: :grin:

eulerscheZahl: :popcorn:

Astrobytes: I'm blaming Radek, just because.

wlesavo: am i stupid or SG grid is a little messed up

Astrobytes: 0,0 is in bottom left

eulerscheZahl: is that a puzzle or a real world question?

wlesavo: we get a rows in a reverse order?

eulerscheZahl: i also complained about the placement of the origin, see contributions comments :P

wlesavo: i mean this origin would be ok if we would get the grid starting from origin

MSmits: the bottom row is 0 because that is where the horizontal contraction happens

MSmits: I guess it made more sense to acat that a special row is 0

jacek: so catty of him

MSmits: I'm ok with that part, but the duplicated validators are silly

eulerscheZahl: small detail. I did it wrong when parsing the input at first. but fixed now to never look back

735487: eulerscheZahl: uno reverse card, is there uno game on CG? played this game few times with my child when bought it to him

eulerscheZahl: no uno here :D

eulerscheZahl: there was another card game pending for a while

735487: do you know the rules good?

eulerscheZahl: guinote or however it's spelled

eulerscheZahl: i played uno as a kid too

eulerscheZahl: with an extra rule made up by my parents as i later discovered

Astrobytes: Maybe aCat will do it as part of his series

eulerscheZahl: there was this advertising card just having the uno logo on both sides

wlesavo: damn, im trying to get closer to euler but it seems that you have to really dedicate to geting a lower score to achieve that

735487: it is not clear for me how the black cards may be break. only with reverse cards or with black cards too

eulerscheZahl: my parents just included it into the game. you could play it followed by 2 cards of the same color

wlesavo: best results from random choices

eulerscheZahl: i do depth 2 bruteforce

MSmits: lol

wlesavo: oh i see, you do search for lower

wlesavo: lol

eulerscheZahl: lol to depth 2 or the uno card?

MSmits: that people are trying to beat you at a lower score because the leaderboard is bugged :P

dbdr: gamification at its best

eulerscheZahl: my highest is 48806

735487: i bought uno almost without rules at all. so i tried to find the rules but some points still not clear for me. so we played our rules ))

MSmits: wait it stores the lowest?

MSmits: i thought it just ordered the board wrong

Astrobytes: No, I just found that out too MSmits

eulerscheZahl: that's connected to each other

735487: keep best results i think

eulerscheZahl: related is a better word i think

Astrobytes: I misunderstood earlier

MSmits: related yeah

eulerscheZahl: some cat wrote the config.ini file wrong

eulerscheZahl: it always get confused as well. so i look at an existing optim and check that config file + leaderboard sorting

wlesavo: some cat in some game wrote something in some config file wrong

eulerscheZahl: then: "i want the same" or "do the opposite"

735487: oh sorry guys. completely dont undestand what is going on here :) will do some work. see you

MSmits: good luck with SomeWork !

wlesavo: lol

Astrobytes: amurushkin: new optimisation game, "Same Game"

735487: thanks

Astrobytes: It has a bug currently

Astrobytes: It takes lowest score as best :)

eulerscheZahl: a feature

Astrobytes: hehehe

wlesavo: yeah, gl beating eulers score

735487: sound easy to be fixed

Astrobytes: Yeah, I guess aCat will fix as soon as he can

eulerscheZahl: change 1 line in the config and reupload

MSmits: i am guessing this game was in WIP too short to test the leaderboard properly?>

eulerscheZahl: there is no way to test the leaderboard during WIP

Astrobytes: ^

MSmits: mmh i thought contributions had leaderboards?

MSmits: wait i mean in the approval stage i guess

MSmits: wip is before approval right?

Astrobytes: haha beat that wlesavo!

MSmits: Astrobytes are you doing any floodfill?

dbdr: looks like multis have leaderboards but not optims

MSmits: never done a floodfill in C++ yet that wasn't a bitboard

Astrobytes: Yeah MSmits

Astrobytes: Bitboard it then :P

wlesavo: damn, you beat my random choice Astrobytes, are you up to smth?

Astrobytes: :D

MSmits: mmh so visited cells are a bitboard and use integers for cell indices as a queue?

MSmits: I can steal code from my playground

dbdr: but that's stealing!

MSmits: yeah :(

Astrobytes: Ah I forgot about that playground

dbdr: (IT crowd reference)

MSmits: it's in C#, but it doesnt do anything thats not easily done in C++

MSmits: probably the shifting of the board after a move is a bit complicated

MSmits: who reused their smash the code bot just now?

eulerscheZahl: not yet. but the dropping logic is slightly more optimized for STC than for same game so far

eulerscheZahl: more so when it comes to chain reactions that we don't have here

MSmits: do you use any tricky stuff to make the dropping fast for STC?

eulerscheZahl: not really tricky

eulerscheZahl: more like stupid for same game (SG from now on)

MSmits: ah ok

eulerscheZahl: dropping by 1 cell each time

eulerscheZahl: in a loop

MSmits: hey, if there is another game with SG as initials, will you call this one SG-1?

Astrobytes: lol

Astrobytes: What if the other is called Stargate tho

MSmits: that'd be funny

MSmits: gonna start be defining my own colors so that it does the same moves on thos e colorflipped validators :P

MSmits: by

MSmits: int colorMap[5];

eulerscheZahl: cells[0][0] has value 0 next different is substituted to 1 and so on

MSmits: exactly

MSmits: it's really easy to do

eulerscheZahl: soon: all top scores are even numbers

MSmits: yeah!

eulerscheZahl: darkhorse the only odd guy atm

MSmits: which is odd, because I don't think of him as odd at all

aCat: eulerscheZahl thanks for the info

aCat: what it should look like

aCat: sorting_order=desc

aCat: ?

eulerscheZahl: you are about to break the leaderboard :scream:

eulerscheZahl: yes

aCat: yeah, didn't think of this ;(

aCat: silly cat

Astrobytes: great bug tho :D

eulerscheZahl: if you delete the config file, the SDK will even prompt you to define the sorting order

eulerscheZahl: or was it removing that one line? i forgot

dbdr: CGP Grey using a wrong quote in a video explaining how he was wrong about something else :D

LegendsOfCodeAndMagic: ;]

LegendsOfCodeAndMagic: auch, other window ^^'

Astrobytes: ban!

MSmits: ;]

MSmits: wait is this acat?

Astrobytes: Yeah

eulerscheZahl: alt accounts are forbidden

MSmits: oww

LegendsOfCodeAndMagic: This is technical account ;]

eulerscheZahl: then you shall not chat!

AntiSquid: euler is my alt

eulerscheZahl: i'm tempted to kick

MSmits: my color map works


AntiSquid: someone delete my alt please

eulerscheZahl: ezpz

LegendsOfCodeAndMagic: I already submitted testcode to SameGame

LegendsOfCodeAndMagic: so you can kick :P

Astrobytes: :D

aCat: au

aCat: that hurts

aCat: bad frog

aCat: ^^'

eulerscheZahl: F5 and you are back ban = only back after chat server restart

eulerscheZahl: i miss an option between

eulerscheZahl: ban for 30min or so

AntiSquid: if chat gets restart all bans are undone?

aCat: yeah seems reasonable to have some time-based silence spell

eulerscheZahl: yes, bans aren't stored permanently

AntiSquid: i don't understand percentage in SameGame

Astrobytes: Mod spells would be awesome. Temporarily remove CP/XP, invisibility etc

AntiSquid: why am i at 0% ?

AntiSquid: aCat explain

eulerscheZahl: invalid or no move

AntiSquid: but someone is at 35%

eulerscheZahl: you have to remove all groups of size 2+

AntiSquid: also i have more points so i clearly pass some cases?

aCat: yeah, rules changed as it was stupid to allow everything as you can increase your timer in such case

eulerscheZahl: you hit some groups and then fail to print a valid action

eulerscheZahl: we will solve it offline and hardcode anyways

eulerscheZahl: always the same problem for optim games

aCat: flat mc gives 38 k

MSmits: i dont mind really, I've yet to run up against someone that rented thousands of dollars worth of amazon/google hardware

eulerscheZahl: back to top :)

AntiSquid: top of what?

eulerscheZahl: SG

Astrobytes: the SG lb

AntiSquid: ah it updates slowly

MSmits: who was it that was top at numbershifting on an old laptop ?

eulerscheZahl: westicles

MSmits: right

MSmits: thats fine with me

AntiSquid: dbdr can't beat D high performance i see

eulerscheZahl: he's first again

eulerscheZahl: about 150 levels above dbdr

MSmits: cool

eulerscheZahl: not sure if he ever got the submit script running

MSmits: does he do anything else on CG this well?

eulerscheZahl: played some game of drones

MSmits: ah ok

eulerscheZahl: top10 range i think

eulerscheZahl: definitely a player who can do better when trying

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: I think we have lots of those

MSmits: that just do 1 or 2 multis/optims but could be top 10 in all of them if they tried to

MSmits: you see them come out on contests

eulerscheZahl: even then not all of them try in the same contest

dbdr: MSmits: I would say it was me, not w

MSmits: were you the one with the old laptop?

MSmits: maybe you both had one

MSmits: maybe I should get one

dbdr: it's relatively old and slow yes

eulerscheZahl: i think westicles had even worse hardware

dbdr: and my algo is faster

eulerscheZahl: but not sure anymore

dbdr: possible

MSmits: dbdr you mean he just keeps it running for longer?

eulerscheZahl: let's do a fund raising. new laptop for dbdr

MSmits: to beat you?

dbdr: slow hardware is good, it encourages you to optimize more :)

jacek: man 80s and 90s code is an art

AntiSquid: you wait more for things to load up

eulerscheZahl: pixi is a pain

eulerscheZahl: even that 3D teapot was less resource intensive

dbdr: once he ran for a long time without submitting, and I caught up pretty quickly because my implementation is faster

dbdr: now he did it again, after even more time

MSmits: 3d teapot?


Astrobytes: In Contributions MSmits

jacek: darkhorse512?

Astrobytes: darkhorse360

eulerscheZahl: darkhorse180 you can't even do a full rotation for 1 axis

MSmits: runs very well eulerscheZahl

Astrobytes: meh

Astrobytes: yeah, cool innit

MSmits: yeah its great

jacek: ignit

MSmits: now make 3D chess

Astrobytes: :D

eulerscheZahl: why me?

MSmits: you made the pot

eulerscheZahl: i did my job, the next is your turn

eulerscheZahl: i imported the pot

eulerscheZahl: copy-paste ftw

Astrobytes: import chess pieces then

Astrobytes: copy-paste ftw

Astrobytes: Get JBM to do textures for you

eulerscheZahl: craftpix even has some 3D stuff

MSmits: oh it's webgl


MSmits: you know, eulerscheZahl, you can code stuff in unity and it can compile to webgl

MSmits: so you can do this in C# :)

AntiSquid: get a 3D scanning app

eulerscheZahl: i think you can use any language if you manage to tell maven how to compile it

eulerscheZahl: the pom.xml is the entry point

MSmits: cool

MSmits: hmm, this runs on GPU right

MSmits: so some people that open your contribution will not be happy :P

eulerscheZahl: i think it can do both depending on your hardware

MSmits: oh ok

eulerscheZahl: i remember emh doing something in webGL that was a pain for my poor computer

eulerscheZahl: and inoryy calling my out for having a "potato GPU"

Astrobytes: Not that NSFW CSB thingy

eulerscheZahl: don't remind me :scream:

Astrobytes: lol, yeah. I'm still scarred.

Astrobytes: Scarred for life in fact.

MSmits: rofl

MSmits: sometimes it's good to work from home

inoryy: :grimacing:

Astrobytes: What is your "potato GPU"?

eulerscheZahl: geforce gtx 570

Astrobytes: Wow, I thought I was behind with my GTX 660

MSmits: test it here eulerscheZahl


Astrobytes: lol

eulerscheZahl: works fine

eulerscheZahl: wait, i feel insulted now

MSmits: potato gpu then

Astrobytes: ...

Astrobytes: If yours is a potato, what's mine?

MSmits: try this Astrobytes


Astrobytes: A tortilla chip?

MSmits: yes

MSmits: it's easier to render

MSmits: cuz it's flat

Astrobytes: easier to render than what?

eulerscheZahl: like the earth?

MSmits: a potato

eulerscheZahl: :popcorn:

Astrobytes: The potato rendered fine?

MSmits: oh

MSmits: i thought you meant your computer is worse

MSmits: so i sought out a lesser challenge

Astrobytes: euler has the potato GPU, he's got a 570 I have a 660

MSmits: ahhhh

eulerscheZahl: and 660 > 570

inoryy: a fried potato

Astrobytes: That implies it's borken with the 'fried' part though

Astrobytes: Or broken

eulerscheZahl: back in 2011 it was on the higher end

inoryy: I think the pc I ended up having to throw out during the move had a 7xx card and nobody wanted it...

Astrobytes: Meh. Don't need fancy GPUs for Zachtronics games anyway

MSmits: got GTX 1060 myself, but I've had this for like 3 years

MSmits: so it's not exactly new

eulerscheZahl: in my first semester I had a really old PC. like struggling on a 10 page google document with formulas

MSmits: I used to be a gamer, CG ruined that

eulerscheZahl: 1GB RAM threw that away

Astrobytes: I upgrade every decade

eulerscheZahl: 2.4GHz single core

MSmits: I used to upgrade gpu every 2 years, everything else 4 years

Astrobytes: actually, I upgraded 3 times last decade

inoryy: I think the pc I have now is the last "big" one, if I ever buy a new one it will be a NUC

eulerscheZahl: i upgraded my SSD. rest is still from 2011 when I bought it

MSmits: I need to get a threadripper to meta mcts 10 games at once and save money on heating

inoryy: well by "I have" I mean my wife has and sometimes lets me play on it...

Astrobytes: :D

MSmits: really inoryy? Why does your wife have the strongest machine?

MSmits: mine has a relatively good laptop, but that's about it

jacek: so she can train NN

inoryy: she's a graphical illustrator, needs a lot of RAM and a beefy-ish CPU

MSmits: makes sense

inoryy: the GPUs are a waste now but meh

Astrobytes: Yep, that would figure

MSmits: why are they a waste?

MSmits: no animations?

inoryy: yeah, neither 3D

MSmits: ah ok

MSmits: when I started coding it was all 3D physics stuff

dbdr: MSmits:

MSmits: that's average

MSmits: I doubt thats true for mine :P

MSmits: getting a lot of mileage out of it

dbdr: to some degree

dbdr: it's still an order of magnitude difference

MSmits: most people hardly use their cpu and mostly gamers use their gpu a lot

MSmits: that's why those botnets are so effective

MSmits: it's not being used anyway...

MSmits: didn't they have a botnet of traffic cams somewhere?

inoryy: "17in monitor" -- something tells me that's not the newest data out there..

MSmits: yeah I could not get a 17 inch one when i wanted to

MSmits: it was all 20+

dbdr: I still doubt it's a good idea to buy new hardware because usage is more efficient

MSmits: yeah unless your hardware is really really old and doesnt have much life left in it

dbdr: inoryy: you can search for other data, but I doubt it will reverse the results

dbdr: it's mostly driven by physical processes

dbdr: MSmits: how much did the laws of physics change recently? ;)

MSmits: been out of the loop

dbdr: :D

dbdr: this is good to know because it's non obvious. we get the stuff in the shop and have no idea how it was produced and how much energy was needed for it

dbdr: while we do see the small part of energy usage at home

Uljahn: so green energy is not so green

inoryy: tbh I'm not even sure what's the argument in the first place -- are you thinking of global carbon offset?

MSmits: I imagine the price of the energy is negligible compared to the price of the machine

dbdr: I think I misread MSmits, thought you said you would save on energy bill :D

MSmits: nope, heating

dbdr: but you won't save on heating either :D

MSmits: energy bill will go through the roof

MSmits: so will most of the energy

MSmits: sure i will

MSmits: my heating bill = gas

MSmits: I will use a lot less gas

MSmits: instead using electricity to heat my house

dbdr: and more electricity

MSmits: through mcts

dbdr: and electricity is more expensive than gas per watt, isn't it?

MSmits: definitely

Astrobytes: Mass Consumption Tree Search

MSmits: otherwise we would all use electric heaters

Scarfield: but still saving money on heating, if you isolate that calc :p

MSmits: yes, and I am

inoryy: alright but then again I don't get the argument. it's like saying don't replace your V12 from the 70s with a modern hybrid because think of the energy used to produce it?

dbdr: reminds me of someone who did not turn off their gas cooker because they could not afford to buy matches ;)

MSmits: inoryy it wasn't even an argument because dbdr decided to misunderstand my poor excuse of a joke :P

dbdr: actually france pushed for electric heating at some period, because the nuclear reactors were underused

Astrobytes: Don't spoil it MSmits, this is CG chat, we can make an argument out of anything! :P

MSmits: true true

MSmits: i'd say underused is better than overused when it comes to nuclear reactors

dbdr: and then metaarguments

Astrobytes: (I mean that affectionately btw)

inoryy: no I get that, I'm just going with the misread version and trying to get where the argument comes from

Astrobytes: Yes MSmits, I tend to agree there

MSmits: ahh, well some people argue that you should replace somewhat older machines with newer ones to save money

dbdr: sometime people argument to buy new equipement because it is a bit more efficient than the old, still functional one

dbdr: ignoring the inefficiency of producing new equipement

MSmits: meh, I think I said it better

MSmits: :P

dbdr: you're much better obviously

dbdr: ;)

Astrobytes: As to whether it's efficient depends on your application of the equipment I guess

MSmits: :)

dbdr: yes, it's something you can calculate

dbdr: but many decisions are irrational or forget some aspect

MSmits: Astrobytes, the more you use it, the more it would help to replace it, but I doubt there are many instances where the new machine is that much more efficient that it's worth the cost of replacing it earlier

Astrobytes: I mean it's true a lot of people upgrade things (not just computing hardware) just because "bigger, better, FASTER MOAR" mentality

dbdr: yes, consumption addiction

MSmits: the efficiency argument is just a crutch to get that other stuff you just mentioned

Astrobytes: Yes MSmits, that's what I'm getting at. If you're gonna be running the hardware to it's full potential the tradeoff is sound

dbdr: not necessarily

MSmits: my point is that it might not even be sound then

MSmits: it might be better to run the old hardware into the ground first

dbdr: you need to do the math. you might need to use it at 500% of max capacity for it to start to make sense

Scarfield: development cost, production cost, transport, etc

MSmits: I calculated it for a TV once, one of those old tube TV's

MSmits: replacing it for a flatscreen

Astrobytes: Hm, yes I'll take that. I'm including industrial equipment here though

MSmits: didnt even come near being better to replace

MSmits: i mean that thing has a particle accelerator in it

MSmits: and it wasnt worth replacing

Astrobytes: hehe

dbdr: another fun calculation: in most cases, cars are in average slower than bikes, once you count how much time you need to work to pay for them

MSmits: I believe that

Scarfield: xD

Astrobytes: Cars are overrated.

MSmits: I never learned to drive because I would need to almost work an extra day just to pay for it

dbdr: nice

Astrobytes: I never had to learn to drive, and hopefully don't have to

Astrobytes: Always used public transport, my bicycle and my legs

dbdr: I have the license but never owned a car either :)

MSmits: I mean we are one of the most densely populated countries in the world with a great public transport system, why are people even considering cars if they dont need them

dbdr: brainwashing

dbdr: it's not rational in most cases

inoryy: dbdr why would you calculate it this way? typically your work hours are limited, as are your off-work hours. you either shave off 1+ hour on commute or you don't

MSmits: inoryy basically he counts driving as working

Scarfield: freedom and saving time

Astrobytes: London is like that (most cities I suppose). No need whatsoever to drive for *most* people. And try parking.

dbdr: don't buy a car, work 1 less hour per day

MSmits: I do too, I can't drive in the car and spam you guys on CG, but I can in a train

inoryy: but you can't in most cases

dbdr: or take unpaid leave sometime and enjoy life

inoryy: you work your work hours the same, that's my point

inoryy: the 1+ hour commute /day will be on top

dbdr: or time between jobs

MSmits: inoryy it depends on the country I think. I only work 4 days a week

dbdr: there are many options

MSmits: I could not afford this with a car

inoryy: I mean sure it depends on the country

Astrobytes: Yeah, work/life balance really needs to be addressed globally. Might be some other issues to solve first but that might help in the long run.

MSmits: also it gets even worse when people go to fitness studios when they could use their commute to fitness

dbdr: sometimes you can also decide to rent/buy closer to your job with the money saved

Astrobytes: Not in London mate :D

MSmits: I walk 1 hr a day as part of my commute

MSmits: when i work that is

MSmits: thats not wasted time in the way that driving would be

inoryy: to clarify the car culture is mostly a thing in US, and in US I don't think you have that freedom of choice you're speaking of

dbdr: I know london prices are crazy

MSmits: inoryy car culture is here too, but you're right in the US distances are longer and the public transport is worse

dbdr: in the US, depends where. some cities are dense

Scarfield: im not sure how many complanies are willing to take on someone for a 4 day week, when others are willing to do 5 days. but i like the idea.

dbdr: in NY I think most people don't use their cars

MSmits: depends a lot on the line of work i suppose

MSmits: in my line of work most of my colleagues are parttimers

Scarfield: but that so many people (myself included) has a 0.5-1ton machine for transport doesnt make sense

MSmits: fulltimers are a dying breed

MSmits: hopefully not literally... I am dreading where this is going next week

Astrobytes: In the UK we work you into the ground so that hopefully nobody has to pay out your pension.

inoryy: the point is that if a person in US does ends up buying a car for commute it's not like he's dumb dumb and doesn't realize he could just work 35 hours / week or take unpaid leave or whatever and ride a bike instead, almost no company would take that deal lol

Scarfield: ^

dbdr: you can take time off between jobs too

MSmits: inoryy maybe not a software company

MSmits: schools, hospitals etc, will do it just fine

Astrobytes: In the US?

Scarfield: not as an engineer either in my exp

MSmits: not sure about US

Astrobytes: He was talking about US :)

MSmits: here coders will work full time also, I guess that's expected of them

MSmits: my friends that are coders do work full time anyway

dbdr: you can also do consulting and chose your pace

inoryy: you can also not work, that's an option

dbdr: yes :)

Astrobytes: Not a good option anywhere other than France lol

Scarfield: many places its kind of frowned upon to not work more than the minimum hrs, but it seems thats about to change. Have heard about more companies trying shorter work weeks in DK at least

Scarfield: especially during the lockdown

MSmits: shorter work weeks are great at reducing unemployment

dbdr: a smart company would accept an employee working 75% of the time for 75% of pay. they will be more productive in average, so it's a net gain

dbdr: since your productivity goes now as you get tired

MSmits: thats not guaranteed, but they might be more productive yes

MSmits: there's also a work-experience/learning argument

MSmits: when you reduce the percentage, at some point you will spend too much of your time learning how to do the work

dbdr: will depend on the situation, for sure

MSmits: but 75% seems very nice for the company, if the lines of communication are good

MSmits: like... when i am off work, i will still reply to e-mails flexibly

MSmits: I will even work when I am off work if necessary and I'll work less on another day

dbdr: reminds me of this:

dbdr: apparently it's a real ad. to me it feels like a parody

MSmits: thats because of the actor in it

Astrobytes: Jeez

MSmits: he always plays humorous mega-villains

Scarfield: lol

dbdr: I don't know the actor

dbdr: for me it's because of the message

dbdr: nice top comment by the way


Astrobytes: It is a real ad

Astrobytes: btw

Scarfield: yea, and apparently a serious one :o

Astrobytes: Grim, ain't it.

Scarfield: Brothers. Grim, aint it. :p

Astrobytes: Grimm really, but yeah :P

Astrobytes: Spellingfield

Scarfield: hehe, well i would have had spelled either the name or the word wrong, there was no winning :p

Astrobytes: Hahaha

jacek: springfield

Default avatar.png JBM: damn on HL before the big thoughtful discussion

Default avatar.png JBM: now i've read it all, damn you astroes

Scarfield: ban !

Scarfield: or !ban :thinking:

Default avatar.png JBM: that mod list is getting dangerously close to the window hwight

Astrobytes: lol

Astrobytes: Oh nice writeup on your site btw JBM

Astrobytes: The Brainfuck one

Default avatar.png JBM: glad you liked it

Astrobytes: Moar content needed. You have a good style of writing imo

Default avatar.png JBM: you have no idea how many times i proofread it

Astrobytes: I think I spotted an error, hang on

Default avatar.png JBM: plz tell

Astrobytes: Found it. In the "But why?" section, "The brainfuck case stands out with the compiler being typically easier to implement than the compiler"

Default avatar.png JBM: lol

Default avatar.png JBM: good catch thanks

Astrobytes: np

Default avatar.png JBM: there, fixed

Astrobytes: Cool. Also, "It sags the mind" is possibly the best title ever, nevermind Brainfuck-related title

Astrobytes: *shags

Default avatar.png JBM: yeah that one took some time too

Scarfield: "Shall we shag now, or shall we shag later, baby"

Astrobytes: Yeah, very Austin Powers to most, yet very normal here in the UK ;)

Default avatar.png JBM: shag tends to pass way more word filters than fuck

Default avatar.png JBM: i had to get so creative to be able to even edit my twitch "started streaming" message

jacek: braincoitus?

Default avatar.png JBM: no it reads as brainfuck

Astrobytes: Well played in any case

Default avatar.png JBM: lemme check what the final version is

Default avatar.png JBM: those people did their work

Default avatar.png JBM: "JBM started streaming in brainſ̵uck. Boy was that a tough broadcast message to get past Twitch."


Default avatar.png JBM: anything 1-char in the f's place was no no

Default avatar.png JBM: (or the u or the c)

Astrobytes: Hah! Very nice

Default avatar.png JBM: took me 20 tries to find something acceptable

Astrobytes: Being Scottish it's always difficult to understand why anything has a 'bad' language filter in the first place.

Default avatar.png JBM: us monoculture

Astrobytes: True. I imagine the French have similar issues with it.

Default avatar.png JBM: not sure

Default avatar.png JBM: what do you mean more precisely?

Astrobytes: A lot of casual phrases in French are considered bad language in the UK

Default avatar.png JBM: for example?

Astrobytes: As in less culturally acceptable

MSmits: j'ai une grosse baguette

Default avatar.png JBM: that one's ostensibly ridiculous

MSmits: thats what i was going for

jacek: omelette du fromage

Default avatar.png JBM: that one's like not even really french

MSmits: makes sense

jacek: dexter's doesnt lie

Default avatar.png JBM: was in dexter?

Default avatar.png JBM: don't remember

Default avatar.png JBM: i've seen the meme propagate, and never really understood who it was trying to make fun of

MSmits: dexter?

MSmits: the show about the serial killer?

jacek: the cartton

eulerscheZahl: Dexter Morgan

jacek: how old are you

Astrobytes: Dexter's Laboratory


Astrobytes: JBM, I should have said words tbh, not phrases. e.g. putain, merde are (in my experience) a lot easier to get away with in many situations than me saying shit and fuck in English company

Default avatar.png JBM: is that the source?

eulerscheZahl: i miss some cartoon knowledge. a lot was aired on a station called SuperRTL. We had an antenna shared with the neighborhood and a bandwidth for 22 channels. majority vote was against the cartoon station

Default avatar.png JBM: ah, ok

Astrobytes: and yeah that's the source of that quote

MSmits: dexter for me will always be dexter morgan. Great show

Default avatar.png JBM: yeah, same here

eulerscheZahl: and damn Kinderkanal was one of them. cartoons too but more pedagogic value

wlesavo: books actually quite ok too, but the plot is very different, so that it becomes a little bit annoying if you saw the series

Default avatar.png JBM: ok now i saw the source

Default avatar.png JBM: so yeah Astrobytes shit and (some translations of) fuck are rather common in everyday french

Default avatar.png JBM: they're still categorized "bad" (like, my mother would NEVER say them)

Default avatar.png JBM: but no one bats an eye

Astrobytes: Oh yeah absolutely, just less taboo than they are here

Default avatar.png JBM: yes

Default avatar.png JBM: a good thing too, imho

Astrobytes: Yes I agree fully

Default avatar.png JBM: not that cursing is the point or anything

Default avatar.png JBM: but being afraid of words is not only pointless, but self-defeating

Astrobytes: No, it's legitimate expression.

Astrobytes: Absolutely

Default avatar.png JBM: i'm more like "ok, magic button, tomorrow the word shit disappears from everywhere, words, books, memories"

Astrobytes: It's the "brush it under the carpet and it'll go away" mentality

Default avatar.png JBM: well, people are going to invent a new word to ban anyway

Scarfield: made me think of this

Astrobytes: Quite.

Default avatar.png JBM: you can't ban talking about reproduction

Default avatar.png JBM: and you can't ban people insulting each other

Default avatar.png JBM: the choice of words they use... so insignificant

Default avatar.png JBM: (well you *can* ban people insulting each other, but they're still going to do it)

Astrobytes: Be a bit more prudent to address why they are insulting each other in the first place tbh

Default avatar.png JBM: because people need an antagonist?

Astrobytes: Yep. Modern existence seems to be all about skirting around the issue and finding a scapegoat.

Astrobytes: Hell, all our existence.

Default avatar.png JBM: gays, muslims, protestants two centuries back, eastasia

Default avatar.png JBM: wait it's more than two

Default avatar.png JBM: darn, my entire argument invalid :(

jacek: clashers

Astrobytes: The Catholic/Protestant issue is alive and well in Scotland and Ireland

Default avatar.png JBM: scotland too?

Astrobytes: (as an aside)

Astrobytes: Yes

Default avatar.png JBM: didn't know

Astrobytes: Many Irish came here, so you still have the republic vs the crown

Astrobytes: Alive and well in football rivalry, separate schools, divides in towns (by street, sometimes groups of houses in the same street)

Astrobytes: Not formal divides in towns, informal.

Astrobytes: It's pretty sickening. Orange Order walks/processions are still a thing

Default avatar.png JBM: *googling*

Default avatar.png JBM: #Controversy

Astrobytes: That's the Protestant side, the Orangemen.

jacek: orange order, trump?

Astrobytes: Battle of the Boyne, William of Orange, etc etc

Default avatar.png JBM: oh wait

Astrobytes: Nothing but religious bigotry.

Default avatar.png JBM: that's *our* Orange

Default avatar.png JBM: took me 3 wikilinks

Default avatar.png JBM: lol

Default avatar.png JBM: not sure anyone there's still aware of that

Astrobytes: What part? He fought against a Catholic French dude iirc

Default avatar.png JBM: "William of Orange"

Default avatar.png JBM: from the principality of Orange, Provence

Default avatar.png JBM: 90min's drive from here

Astrobytes: Ah right, yeah. Unimportant detail if you're engaged in persistent multi-generational religious bigotry

Default avatar.png JBM: sure

Default avatar.png JBM: i figured claiming the land would be their endgame

Default avatar.png JBM: silly me

MSmits: hmm Willem van Oranje?

Default avatar.png JBM: it's all about bickering with the catholics

Astrobytes: I don't speak to about 2/3 of my family because they're Orange lunatics

MSmits: he;s in our national anthem

Default avatar.png JBM: treaty of Utrecht ceded the land back to france

MSmits: or is william of Orange != Willem van Oranje ?

Default avatar.png JBM: could be a link

Astrobytes: Well he was Dutch so I guess so

MSmits: right

MSmits: he's basically considered our founding father of sorts

Default avatar.png JBM: orange was also famous in the 90s for being one of the first town halls to "fall" to the racist FN

Astrobytes: Willem Hendrik MSmits?


Astrobytes: Figures JBM, all the Orangemen I know are racists of the most ignorant kind

Default avatar.png JBM: i KNEW it

MSmits: why do you know so many racists that it becomes statistically significant Astrobytes ?

MSmits: :worried:

Default avatar.png JBM: i'm afraid we all do

Default avatar.png JBM: knowingly or not

Astrobytes: To be clear for anyone not in the know, the Orangemen/Protestant crowd in the UK are Unionists, that is they endorse the occupation of Northern Ireland by the crown

MSmits: ah right

MSmits: great britain needs more atheists

Astrobytes: And have a vitriolic hatred of Catholics

Astrobytes: (I was raised Protestant)

Astrobytes: *born into

jacek: its solar empire vs new lunar republic all over again

MSmits: I was raised heretic

Astrobytes: It's a load of old bollocks is what it is

MSmits: does bollocks get through the twitch filter

MSmits: jbm, go do another stream

Astrobytes: And the flames are fanned by increasingly far-right government in Westminster

Default avatar.png JBM: MSmits: nobody watches my streams, what's the point :p

MSmits: I don't watch any streams, but if I did I would watch yours JBM

Astrobytes: There were 4 or 5 viewers when I joined late the other night

Default avatar.png JBM: it's been "stable" between 5 and 12 all along

Default avatar.png JBM: i'm in it for the long tail

Astrobytes: If you wish to learn you a Haskell for great good JBMs streams are worth a watch

Default avatar.png JBM: i *think* (i oughta check) i get a lot more views on youtube

Default avatar.png JBM: MSmits: that's [would be] so nice of you! :D

MSmits: :)

Astrobytes: Probably. Time constraints/timezone constraints mean streaming niche stuff never gets the views at the time

Default avatar.png JBM: yea that plays for a lot

MSmits: I spend way too much time following what happens in the US

MSmits: i should stop that

Astrobytes: Watch JBM streams, get inspired and then punish your soul by writing Haskell very badly

MSmits: does JBM do CG stuff in haskell?

Default avatar.png JBM: (or better, if you stay to the end)

Default avatar.png JBM: yeah that tends to happen

Default avatar.png JBM: but i've also streamed C++ and Perl

MSmits: what made you decide to do this?

Default avatar.png JBM: boredom ;p

MSmits: I shared on you tube before, but streaming is a different beast

Astrobytes: I didn't mean JBM's Haskell was bad btw, I mean mines is bad

MSmits: oh, I wonder if i'll learn haskell next year

BenFreanklin: HI

MSmits: I signed up to functional programming course

Astrobytes: You should definitely do some videos MSmits, if not streams

MSmits: are they likely to use haskell?

BenFreanklin: On a pickle watt up

Astrobytes: Lisp for sure

Default avatar.png JBM: which uni?

Default avatar.png JBM: utrecht has a big haskell rep

MSmits: Astrobytes personally I like writing > youtube > livestreaming

MSmits: hmm might be utrecht

Astrobytes: Whatever suits :)

Default avatar.png JBM: they used to maintain a haskell compiler of their own, UHC

Astrobytes: Nice

MSmits: let me see if i can find this

MSmits: Elm!

MSmits: is what they use

Default avatar.png JBM: oh, elm

Default avatar.png JBM: "it's complicated"

MSmits: I have no idea,

MSmits: brb

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: hi

firecraftgaming: I love how people seriosly doesnt think im 13 years old

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: me too

firecraftgaming: it isnt a joke i am 13 years old

Default avatar.png JBM: sure yeou are

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: yap me too

Astrobytes: We heard you the first time

firecraftgaming: yes i am how should i prove it

AntiSquid: i think you're 12

MSmits: you have to be at least 14 imho

MSmits: firecraftgaming how old will you be in 21 years

Default avatar.png JBM: why would you even want to?

firecraftgaming: 34

MSmits: how about in twice that many years

AntiSquid: no idea how this started by why should everyone care firecraftgaming?

AntiSquid: anyone *

Default avatar.png JBM: he started it on his own

Default avatar.png JBM: how convincingly suspicious

AntiSquid: i just entered chat and i see this mess

Astrobytes: Indeed.

MSmits: he's still working on my math puzzle, don't distract him

Astrobytes: You missed all the good conversation AntiSquid

firecraftgaming: what math puzzle????

MSmits: how old would you be in twice that many years

MSmits: it's important

AntiSquid: he did answer you MSmits

firecraftgaming: ok? 55

MSmits: i asked a followup

MSmits: ah see

MSmits: thats too smart

MSmits: if you said 68 i would have believed you were 13

firecraftgaming: haha

Astrobytes: lol

MSmits: want another chance firecraftgaming?

MSmits: to prove you're 13?

Astrobytes: Just mention Minecraft

Default avatar.png JBM: take a nude pic; send it to any of the americans here

Astrobytes: Or what's that other crap, Roblox

Default avatar.png JBM: if the fbi brings their door down, you were 13 or less

Scarfield: how do you tame a horse in minecraft?

dbdr: seems like the "prove you're a human" asimov story, where the robot has to pretend to be dummer than he is

AntiSquid: bad argument Astrobytes, lots of 40+ people stream minecraft and other pixelart games

MSmits: err i think they'd be bringing your door down JBM :P

Astrobytes: Not Roblox though AntiSQuid

Default avatar.png JBM: i'm not american

Astrobytes: And yes, fair point

MSmits: since when has that stopped them

AntiSquid: i am sure even roblox

Default avatar.png JBM: mmm good pt

Astrobytes: Surely not AntiSquid

Astrobytes: Nice point of reference dbdr

AntiSquid: i occasionally tune into twitch and check some random games, often see bored tired old faces of people playing all sorts of games and i wonder why?

MSmits: i know

dbdr: I wonder how

MSmits: you search for tired old faces on twitch

MSmits: better search terms

AntiSquid: lol dbdr

Astrobytes: Hmm. Cult of celebrity, monetisation, low self esteem... need I go on

AntiSquid: sure MSmits

Default avatar.png JBM: and all that you could see was...?


MSmits: this came up when i searched for tired old faces

dbdr: just another ...

AntiSquid: there's some streamers worth watching every now and then

Default avatar.png JBM: tired old face

dbdr: red black tree

Default avatar.png JBM: what a lousy rhyme

Default avatar.png JBM: ah, better

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: are we coding orr??

Default avatar.png JBM: no u

AntiSquid: kingslayer2020 sure, have any ideas?

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: yap what i expected

AntiSquid: what did you even expect?

Astrobytes: Are YOU coding kingslayer2020

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: some people saying no

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: nop

Astrobytes: That is the pertinent question here. And if not - why not?!

MSmits: I coded a line only 10 mins ago kingslayer2020

AntiSquid: does it count as coding if you just graph plots in python ? kingslayer2020

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: i dont know

Astrobytes: I commented something out a minute ago, if that counts

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: maybe

AntiSquid: maybe not

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: i dont know

Astrobytes: Get coding kingslayer2020

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: how about you ask msmits here

coderinblack: alr

AntiSquid: in the future if i do an API call to some advanced ML model to solve a problem for me, is it still coding?

AntiSquid: kingslayer2020

Astrobytes: bms coderinblack

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: i guess so

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: what do you think??

AntiSquid: well i wrote the one line API call so ofc

AntiSquid: hard work

Astrobytes: More coding less chatting kingslayer2020

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: ha not the smartest guy here are you??

AntiSquid: Automaton2000 is

Automaton2000: i'm curious how much you can do that in c#

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: so much

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: you would get blindd

AntiSquid: also you need to get an avatar

MSmits: Automaton2000 what kind of avatar does kingslayer2020 need ?

Automaton2000: i don't know why it does not

Astrobytes: So much talking rubbish, you could get a warning kingslayer2020

MSmits: Automaton2000 that's an unacceptable answer

Automaton2000: still not sure how to make a game for cg ?

Astrobytes: Tell us how Automaton2000

MSmits: Automaton2000 just make a teapot

Automaton2000: can you paste the code

MSmits: euler did

Automaton2000: but you did well on a few

Astrobytes: Not the point Automaton2000, tell us how you do it

Automaton2000: was about to write that

Astrobytes: Go on then Automaton2000

Automaton2000: but you have to check

MSmits: Automaton2000 is stalling

Automaton2000: because that is the question

AntiSquid: Astrobytes don't be hard on kingslayer2020, guy is new here

MSmits: think he might be new anywhere?

AntiSquid: welcome to CG kingslayer2020 what are you up to ? :)

Astrobytes: Not being hard, I just don't take fools lightly

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: well coding i guess and gaming

MSmits: so you take them hard?

Default avatar.png LmK1337: :P

Default avatar.png JBM: do they like it?

Default avatar.png LmK1337: hey anyone here programs PLCs ?

MSmits: you can count on jbm to make it weird

Astrobytes: I take fools harder than a hard thing on a hard day

Astrobytes: You started that one MSmits, you always do. Don't feign innocence here

Astrobytes: :grin:

MSmits: hey, to be fair, i only realized that after i typed it

MSmits: was still before i hit enter though

Astrobytes: see!

Astrobytes: I shall rephrase. I do not suffer fools gladly.

AntiSquid: Astrobytes CG was far more fun when i joined, back when madao was active and trash talking along with other new peeps in chat, good times :'(

Astrobytes: You need to stay in chat more often then, you've missed it

MSmits: are you saying CG has gotten too nice?

AntiSquid: also madao "lol, want me to ban you AntiSquid?"

Astrobytes: And was trying to get Maddy back ;ast night

Astrobytes: *last

MSmits: how?

Scarfield: secret rituals i presume

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: ms sits:

AntiSquid: just my impression

Astrobytes: He 'slipped' into Gorbit's DMs. So I had a chat by proxy

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: i think you need it

MSmits: kingslayer2020 it's great that you are looking to improve yourself

Astrobytes: He says he was busy but will come back

AntiSquid: kingslayer2020 trolling overload

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: ohh you mean you

MSmits: indeed, i did say you

Astrobytes: Try harder kingslayer2020

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: yeah your stupid enough not to recognize yourself

AntiSquid: no . kingslayer2020 please be more polite . get along with the other users

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: fine

Astrobytes: OR just be a knob

AntiSquid: get an anime avatar

Astrobytes: Or no avatar and a good reputation

MSmits: also, when you're calling people stupid, don't say "your stupid". It's you're

AntiSquid: kingslayer2020 what games do you like and what do you like to code? also get an anime avatar

MSmits: just some helpful advice :P

Default avatar.png JBM: what's an avatar

MSmits: it's like a smurf, but more elongated

Scarfield: xD

AntiSquid: don't listen to JBM, he's the chat villain

Default avatar.png JBM: am i?

AntiSquid: yes

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: thanks for your information mssmits but i prefer my way

Default avatar.png JBM: how did i gain the title?

AntiSquid: nothing official, i can't grant titles

MSmits: kingslayer2020 ok, but prepare to be misunderstood

Default avatar.png JBM: darn

Astrobytes: I thought the Villain was MadKnight

AntiSquid: why

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: as you wish

Astrobytes: It's his discord

AntiSquid: kingslayer2020 your means belonging, you're is contraction of you are

MSmits: AntiSquid don't jinx it

MSmits: you just made him nicer

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: ??

AntiSquid: your *something* = the something that belongs to the person you address

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: what does that even man

AntiSquid: if i say Automaton2000 your idiot, it means i am telling Automaton2000 i am his idiot

MSmits: I mean I just noticed you got nicer and now AntiSquid is annoying you again :P

Automaton2000: that's the only reason i can think of that

MSmits: Automaton2000 already assumed you were AntiSquid

Astrobytes: See, now this is why I wish we had a delete on the chat

Automaton2000: when i have time i will make a ga for that

AntiSquid: why? lol

Astrobytes: So we can delete trash talk stuff

Astrobytes: afterwards I mean

AntiSquid: did i do something wrong? :(

MSmits: nah, not this time

Astrobytes: No lol

MSmits: but we got a log now, I'm sure if I dig....

Default avatar.png JBM: i call that not "yet"

Astrobytes: I mean, when the trash talking is done, we can clean it up

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: its me isn't it??

Default avatar.png JBM: it's not us it's you

AntiSquid: MSmits hm ya there were often fun arguments in chat

MSmits: I remember you and re curse going at it :P

AntiSquid: kingslayer2020 you're alright, just missing an avatar, no worries

MSmits: dont remember when exactly

Astrobytes: Oh I wouldn't delete stuff like that

Astrobytes: Just random stuff that serves no purpose

AntiSquid: i don't consider that even worth mentioning MSmits

Default avatar.png kingslayer2020: im trying but its not my problem the file arent uploading

MSmits: allright :)

MSmits: maybe the dimensions arent correct

MSmits: you can use a simple paint program to cut it a bit so it has the right size

AntiSquid: maybe it's not an anime avatar ?

AntiSquid: were you trying to upload something else?

Astrobytes: you need m-dimensional pics on here

MSmits: m-theory?

AntiSquid: where is the node-js guy gone? firecraftgaming you just joined the community, are you already gone?

Astrobytes: Sure. Gotta use your m-brane

MSmits: AntiSquid thats because you didn't believe he was 13

Default avatar.png JBM: i forgot who was 13

MSmits: or wasn't

MSmits: he never did prove it

Default avatar.png JBM: thta one

AntiSquid: i said 12, he will be 13 in a year no?

Default avatar.png JBM: hopefully

MSmits: might be less even

Astrobytes: Not if he carries on like that

MSmits: a year would be the upper limit of that

Default avatar.png JBM: is he in a "herd immunity" kind of country?

AntiSquid: wow that expression ...

MSmits: I'm immune to herds, when a herd of people all do one thing, I do the opposity

MSmits: opposite

dbdr: :)

MSmits: are people in a herd immunity country immune to herd mentality?

AntiSquid: netherlands isn't as strict as other countries i heard

Astrobytes: Herd immunity comes from vaccination parlance, it's totally misappropriated wrt Covid, UK government wholly responsible

Scarfield: so if a herd of people where all hetero, how would you react?

MSmits: it was pretty strict before, but it's gonna be bad after next week I am afraid :(

MSmits: schools open up

MSmits: no restrictions at all

AntiSquid: sweden never had a real lockdown during this time so is it really that bad?

MSmits: recipe for disaster I think

MSmits: sweden had way more deaths

Astrobytes: Schools opened today here. Apart from a few that were flooded/damaged after last nights 7 hour thunderstorm

MSmits: than most countries

dbdr: some people saying sweden counted better

AntiSquid: true, but media blown up the entire thing out of proportions, some where thinking 90% of people out there will die

MSmits: Sweden: 571 per million. Netherlands: 359 per million

MSmits: and Netherlands is more densely populated

MSmits: which makes it easier to spread

Astrobytes: Sweden were a little more complacent initially.

Scarfield: the minister responsoble for the approach in sweden admitted they didnt do enough

Astrobytes: ^

MSmits: AntiSquid people keep forgetting that the deathrate is not the most important thing

AntiSquid: belgium 865 per million, what happened there?

MSmits: I think there are more people surviving with lifetime serious health considitons than people dying

Astrobytes: While the shit was hitting the fan here my friend Erik was not giving a shit (he's a chef) and everything was open, continuing as normal

MSmits: conditions that is

Astrobytes: Yes. People are not grasping the consequences MSmits.

MSmits: AntiSquid I think Belgium counted everyone dying in nursing homes as having died of covid, it should maybe be 100 lower or so, or 200

Astrobytes: They still think it's a cold

AntiSquid: at the end of the day i hope russia is honest about having a vaccine

jacek: its :vodka:

Astrobytes: Missed out 3rd phase

MSmits: you mean having a safe and effective vaccine

jacek: who cares about 3rd phase

Scarfield: it does so that you dont die from covid, in 100% of the cases

dbdr: russia is not more advanced than others, they just announced earlier

Astrobytes: Antibody-dependent enhancement

IfIHadATail: oh good my facebook feed has spilled over to codingame :/

MSmits: I am not on facebook

MSmits: this is my facebook :P

Astrobytes: The 3rd phase of testing is supposed to eliminate that possiblity

AntiSquid: with all the russia hacking conspiracies out there thought they might at least have stollen it from elsewhere dbdr

MSmits: AntiSquid is my mark zuckerberg

Astrobytes: *possibility

Default avatar.png DarkDev: who knows lua

AntiSquid: woah MSmits what does that suppose to mean? :/ not sure how to perceive that

MSmits: hey, i thought you wanted to trashtalk

MSmits: I am making a serious effort here

Scarfield: he thinks you are a lizard im sure

Astrobytes: The virus can sometimes cause a more severe response when exposed a second time, that's the danger of not doing the 3rd phase testing

Astrobytes: *when you are exposed a second time

MSmits: Mark zuckerberg talks like a robot, you talk *to* a robot, it's similar

AntiSquid: no MSmits, geez have some moderation

IfIHadATail: DarkDev it is just easier to post your question in the chat and people that know the answer will help you

MSmits: :P

Astrobytes: It's an immune response, it depends on the antibodies produced in the initial infection

AntiSquid: and if i was you're mark zuck then i'd ban you AND sell your data

Scarfield: xD

IfIHadATail: cause like i know Lua but I don't "know" Lua if you get my drift :P

MSmits: I think he would just sell my data

Astrobytes: Absolutely nobody listening to my explanation of why the Russian vaccine announcement is bad.

AntiSquid: i am reading, just not speed reading

MSmits: thats because I mentioned zuckerberg

IfIHadATail: I'm not russian so I could care less

jacek: and i forgot the topic of conversation

Astrobytes: Bearing in mind I work in pharma and am a biologist

jacek: im sorry

MSmits: jacek

MSmits: lemme get you up to speed

MSmits: Astrobytes is filling us in about the conspiracies

AntiSquid: it's the usual CG topic jacek

Astrobytes: No conspiracies

MSmits: really?

MSmits: then you must be deep-state

Astrobytes: Clearly.

Astrobytes: Cold hard science has that effect.

IfIHadATail: lol everyone thinks they aren't a conspiracy theorist

MSmits: but sure, the stupidest thing you can do is a poorly tested vaccine. There's already people afraid of fake vaccins

MSmits: of real i mean

AntiSquid: i also wonder every time i see the word vaccine, will it help against all strands of the virus ??


Astrobytes: No way to tell currently AntiSquid, it's a completely new virus

MSmits: I think it also depends on what type of vaccine

MSmits: it's also possible that it doesnt work on all strands, but the strands it doesnt work on are harmless

MSmits: it may not have to work on all

Astrobytes: The variants seen so far are not harmless

MSmits: no, but you dont see the harmless variants maybe?

MSmits: because they are harmless

AntiSquid: are mers and sars harmless?

Astrobytes: Haven't checked the sequencing data, if it's there tbh, I admit

MSmits: there's a selection effect there for sure

Astrobytes: Covid is a SARS variant (of sorts)

MSmits: AntiSquid the vaccine wont work against those for sure

MSmits: too different

MSmits: from what i understand vaccines are usually more specific than that

Astrobytes: It's called SARS-CoV-2 for a reason ;)

IfIHadATail: viruses mutate and the vaccines chase the mutations that is why you need to get them all the time

Astrobytes: Yes, precisely.

MSmits: I dont get them all the time though?

jacek: i wonder how the russian put the autism into vaccine so quickly

MSmits: lol...

AntiSquid: as long as it's not a Microsoft TM vaccine :p

Astrobytes: Oh here we go

IfIHadATail: he said using his free OS that tracks everything he does :P

MSmits: I had quite a scare the one time I tried to install windows 10

AntiSquid: Astrobytes it's meme worthy at least

Astrobytes: Anyway, good chat. Catch you all tomorrow :) gn

Astrobytes: hehehe :D

MSmits: it really tries to get you to connect your microsoft account to your windows installation

MSmits: I tried my work account and suddenly my windows computer was basically a work terminal

MSmits: the button to install without an account was really well hidden

AntiSquid: Bill Gates intended for a some invisible ink tatoo, so it makes people talk

IfIHadATail: yeah they are trying to make the expereience seamless between devices

MSmits: I dont want my boss to control my private computer :P

AntiSquid: run windows 10 on a VM inside linux eh

IfIHadATail: yeah I don't have the whole "work" problem right now :P

IfIHadATail: must be a nice problem to have

MSmits: lose your job due to covid?

IfIHadATail: no I lost it due to work related injury

MSmits: ah that's worse, sorry to hear that

IfIHadATail: yeah well that is how I finally took the steps into coding so love-hate lol

MSmits: I'd give up a toe to discover coding

MSmits: maybe two

IfIHadATail: 20 year career down the drain for this new and scary one lol

IfIHadATail: honestly I've wanted to do this for ages so yeah I just hope it works out lol

AntiSquid: what were you before ?

IfIHadATail: custom metal fabricator

AntiSquid: ok

MSmits: career changes are always scary voluntary or involuntary

IfIHadATail: yup it was fun while it lasted lol

AntiSquid: wasn't for me MSmits

AntiSquid: i thought "screw it, whatever happens happens"

MSmits: maybe because you were swinging knives in your previous job

MSmits: nothing scares you anymore

AntiSquid: YOLO

AntiSquid: try to make the most out of it?

MSmits: did Jordan Peterson talk you into it?

AntiSquid: IfIHadATail i don't have any idea what your previous job involves, but wouldn't data science (maybe some machine learning) be helpful for you ? do you have a strong chemical background?

AntiSquid: i mean you could combine the knowledge you have with that and get yourself further than just "coding" imo

AntiSquid: no MSmits

MSmits: he talks a lot of that kind of thing, youtube for some reason has decided i should watch him

AntiSquid: now that you mentioned him, would like to know what you think about him ? curious

MSmits: I like him when he talks about what he 's an expert in

MSmits: his field

AntiSquid: forgot about his existence, watched him briefly confronting some weird activist, watched him talk and then i thought he is wasting his breath with those people, then moved on

MSmits: he has a lot of followers online

AntiSquid: watched him talk about life in general i mean *

MSmits: millions

IfIHadATail: I do not have a strong chemical background no. I did study metals but only how I would use them in their annealed, normalized, and hardened states definitely no chemestry involved :P

IfIHadATail: or extremely little

AntiSquid: entertaining for a while, but i felt i need to move on at some point, it feels like watching same ideas over and over again after a while MSmits

MSmits: yeah

IfIHadATail: I'd be closer at home in engineering TBH

MSmits: Simulated Annealing should feel right at home :)

kingslayer2020: has anyone completed thee coders strike back challenge??

IfIHadATail: which challenge is that?

MSmits: kingslayer2020 it's not a challenge you complete. It's a multiplayer competitive arena

MSmits: you just get better and rank higher

kingslayer2020: fine whatever you say

MSmits: but sure

MSmits: I rank fairly high, ask

kingslayer2020: has anyone done it though??

MSmits: almost everyone

AntiSquid: well you could get 1st place and pretend you completed it, but nothing on that ranking seems to last forever

IfIHadATail: oh right the competition. Yeah I just got to gold the other day : )

MSmits: good job

inoryy: "I rank fairly high" says top5 competitor

MSmits: 6th

kingslayer2020: how do you adjust th thrust

inoryy: oh that changes everything, carry on

MSmits: :)

IfIHadATail: TY : ) my bot completely skipped silver league and I was pretty proud of that actually lol

MSmits: kingslayer2020 just use a power lower than 100

kingslayer2020: thnx

AntiSquid: nice, now do ocean of code IfIHadATail

MSmits: but usually you either do 0 or 100 to make this simple, I do

MSmits: when you turn you could sometimes do 0 to turn more easily

AntiSquid: if you dare that is :p

IfIHadATail: I might do that next. I just wanted to see if I can get higher in coders strike back first cause I only got as far as getting my program to work with now having two pods

MSmits: IfIHadATail ooc has a high entry level

kingslayer2020: print(30 <= thrust <= 0):corrections

AntiSquid: was half joking, it's imo the hardest on CG

MSmits: yeah might be

inoryy: really?

MSmits: locam is fairly complicated to start out in as well

AntiSquid: i said imo MSmits, just my opinion

kingslayer2020: print(30 <= thrust <= 0)

IfIHadATail: OOC was actually my first ever live competition on codingame ever lol

MSmits: yeah i am not sure, maybe I agree

kingslayer2020: print(30 <= thrust <= 0)

IfIHadATail: I bare made it to bronze lol

kingslayer2020: print(30 <= thrust <= 0)

kingslayer2020: print(30 <= thrust <= 0)

kingslayer2020: print(30 <= thrust <= 0)

kingslayer2020: print(30 <= thrust <= 0)

AntiSquid: please don't spam

MSmits: maybe he thinks he has to output it here?

kingslayer2020: fine just correct me

MSmits: i dont know what language that

MSmits: is

kingslayer2020: python

MSmits: does python do <= in strings? I didnt even know

AntiSquid: but that's a comparison afaik @_@

AntiSquid: you want to output a value ?!

inoryy: aside from why would you print that in the first place, you're testing for x to be in-between [30, 0] with 0 being upper bound..

AntiSquid: print(x,y,thrust) ???

AntiSquid: forgot CSB

IfIHadATail: yeah

MSmits: inoryy will that always be false?

MSmits: so he just prints false?

inoryy: unless math changed

MSmits: been out of the loop lately

MSmits: might have

inoryy: as with physics? :)

MSmits: yeah :(

jacek: pi is 3.2 now

IfIHadATail: :O

AntiSquid: new version?

MSmits: oh noes, they changed pi!

inoryy: monsters, everyone knows it's 3

jacek: pi was too OP, they nerfed it

kingslayer2020: when your more nicer thats the day monkeys will fly

IfIHadATail: they are always trying to find ways to give us less for the same cost

MSmits: is this because of changes in the space time curvature? Are we now non-euclidean?

IfIHadATail: we are using facebook physics now

AntiSquid: you need to change your perception, don't assume people are being mean so easily kingslayer2020

IfIHadATail: where that guy that got a c in science class in HS is an expert in everything

MSmits: our worst crime here is trying to be funny kingslayer2020

MSmits: HS?

MSmits: hypersonic?

AntiSquid: worst crime is laughing at our own jokes, while thinking everyone else laughs along

IfIHadATail: lol high school :P

MSmits: oh ok

MSmits: guilty!

IfIHadATail: super guilty

MSmits: ok ok super guilty then

MSmits: jeez dont rub it in

IfIHadATail: :D

MSmits: :P

AntiSquid: kingslayer2020 look at the statement check required output format

AntiSquid: also gave you an example earlier

MSmits: AntiSquid is being super nice, he would have said RTFM otherwise

AntiSquid: this is your fault guys, making fun of Madknight until he quit CG, he used to help everyone in CSB

MSmits: true

MSmits: euler still helps

MSmits: and he doesnt try to get you on teamspeak :P

IfIHadATail: oof you guys made someone leave?

MSmits: nahh

AntiSquid: but euler isn't anything like the high priest of a CSB cult

MSmits: madknight is a nice guy that helps, but a little weird sometimes. He has not been very active as a player for a loooong time

IfIHadATail: wow didn't know there was a cult

AntiSquid: i just made it sound dramatic IfIHadATail

AntiSquid: the cult part is also me making it sound dramatic

MSmits: not coding much, just trashtalking veterans and helping new people

IfIHadATail: looks my aspirations of leegeond are dead

AntiSquid: he did code

IfIHadATail: I can spell I swear

MSmits: hmm not much in the time i was here?

AntiSquid: IfIHadATail don't worry about madknight, actually he liked to try stuff out outside CG

MSmits: not in contests and i didnt see him appear much in multis

AntiSquid: he basically just moved on

MSmits: aside from CSB

AntiSquid: he spent a lot of time on rendering a cube from scratch in C ! :D

AntiSquid: coding NES games

AntiSquid: then trying out other stuff and inviting people to try it out too

IfIHadATail: lol sounds like fun >.>

MSmits: yeah he would sometimes PM me asking how to do those things or getting me to do them

AntiSquid: IfIHadATail ya the conversation resulting from that was fun

IfIHadATail: lol

MSmits: didnt he also do a lot of chess?

AntiSquid: wonder if he managed to train a model that renders a 3D cube for him

AntiSquid: isn't cyberpunk the chess guy ?

IfIHadATail: I honestly can't wait 'til I am good enough to make bots for games. IDK why but that just sounds super fun to me

MSmits: I thought they both were, but might be wrong

AntiSquid: people get bored after a while IfIHadATail, or they try to learn new things while still being on CG every now and then

MSmits: IfIHadATail it is super fun, but there isn't a clear line where you can say you are "good enough"

MSmits: dont put the bar too high

MSmits: sometimes a few lines of code can get you halfway up the ladder in some games

AntiSquid: IfIHadATail not sure what you mean by good enough, you just do, fail, correct the mistakes, do some more, fail, read forums about post mortems, fail again ...

IfIHadATail: well I mean like making bots for actual games

AntiSquid: ya even that

MSmits: oh outside CG?

AntiSquid: same approach

IfIHadATail: yeah : )

AntiSquid: google a tutorial

IfIHadATail: well I don't know how to get my code to interact with the games lol

AntiSquid: and follow along, google another tutorial ...

BenVlodgi: I'm working on AI for an actual game, but taking a break to play CSB here xD

AntiSquid: eventually you get an idea

IfIHadATail: and I can't for the life of me find out how

MSmits: IfIHadATail I learned most of my coding writing mods for space engineers. Its awesome for learning how to code

MSmits: and it's physics

AntiSquid: start with "google dino bot" i think that's simple enough

MSmits: and there's metal too

MSmits: is that the cactus jumping thing?

IfIHadATail: and it'll tell me how to control other programs with my program? that is seriously the wall I can't get over right now

MSmits: control other programs with your program?

MSmits: how do you mean exactly?

Uljahn: like with autohotkey?

MSmits: do you mean the bot interfacing with the controls of a game?

MSmits: like an auto-aim bot in a shoot em up?

IfIHadATail: yeah like I want to write program that reads the state of a game makes calculations and then outputs controls

IfIHadATail: IDK if like an aim-bot

MSmits: ahh well, in some games they give you an API

MSmits: and it's just a matter of using the right commands

MSmits: space engineers has an API. You could a ship there, mine craft-like and then write code to fly it automatically, using C#

MSmits: build a ship i mean

IfIHadATail: well like I want to be able to make a bot that can play Gradius for NES

AntiSquid: IfIHadATail which kind of games do you want to write a bot for? you could use a macro editor for repetitive tasks type of games ... then move on to autoit or whatever the name was ... there are so many programs and frameworks to work with for bot creation

MSmits: ahh, well there's probably some helpful tools to interface with those

firecraftgaming: Were do I see how many times i have won?

MSmits: won what?

IfIHadATail: IDK I know Java, some kotlin and some Lua and I am completely lost on the subject lol

MSmits: clash of code?

firecraftgaming: won clash of code

MSmits: dont think you can see it, you can see how many clashes you played, your ranking and rating

MSmits: also, winning a clash means you're 1st right? But you also gain rating being 2nd, usually

firecraftgaming: yeah but i want to see my win rate if its possible

MSmits: or 3rd even

AntiSquid: you can probably code some bot that looks for specific pixels or icons on the screen to do a nes bot, just google it

MSmits: winrate is unclear when there's no clear definition of winning

firecraftgaming: came 1 place

MSmits: i dont think you can see that

firecraftgaming: ok thanks anyway

IfIHadATail: hmm okay I'll look into the pixel thing

AntiSquid: for browser game bots, there are other tutorials out there, involves a few api calls but not too difficult

MSmits: don't stare too hard into the pixel thing

MSmits: it might stare back...

**MSmits is laughing at his own joke

IfIHadATail: also is there terminology I should serch for for stuff like making the game window the active window and stuff like that?

Uljahn: also look into atari games in Openai gym

Default avatar.png JBM: MSmits: now you get to explain it

MSmits: no no, that would be a double whammy

IfIHadATail: lol MSmits

MSmits: I already laughed at my own joke, if i explain it also, it would be really bad

IfIHadATail: XD

IfIHadATail: lol thanks guys I'll start my search again with this new info and motivation. thanks! : )

MSmits: have fun :)

AntiSquid: MSmits overlooking cellular automata

AntiSquid: reply to "msmits laughs at own joke"

MSmits: I miss the reference :(

AntiSquid: stuff like this:

AntiSquid: pixels doing stuff

MSmits: ahh hright

AntiSquid: now MSmits feeling unsafe in front of the screen

MSmits: already was, there's mosquitos

MSmits: I have my little electrocution device near me though

AntiSquid: lol

MSmits: extremely hot today, left window open too long

MSmits: also I blame jacek

AntiSquid: had a bit of rain here

AntiSquid: jacek's rain dance failed you?

MSmits: I let my meta mcts too long to beat his bots and thats partially why it's hot

MSmits: havent tried the dance yet

MSmits: but it's supposed to rain tomorrow

MSmits: :fingers_crossed:

MSmits: I should finish my floodfill for samegame

DoxLee: can i share my solution on github ?

DoxLee: for puzzles

MSmits: preferably not

MSmits: people have done it before and not gotten banned, but you're not really supposed to

MSmits: it's worse if it's for multiplayer competitive bots, especially if they're good

MSmits: they lead to multiple players stealing your bot and submitting it

MSmits: if you do it during a contest you do get disqualified

DoxLee: i just wanto ask just because i know a guy who is sharing solutions for othersites

MSmits: yes it happens

MSmits: usually the best players dont do it

MSmits: what i find on google is usually pretty bad, but sure you'll find some easy puzzle solutions and some old bots

DoxLee: okey u right

DoxLee: im just braindead for today

DoxLee: how can i learn how fast my code

MSmits: how fast?

DoxLee: y

DoxLee: performance of code

DoxLee: sorry for bad english

MSmits: hmm

MSmits: you mean compared to other players?

DoxLee: i just want to know which way is better

MSmits: ohhh

MSmits: use timing functions

MSmits: do things in different ways and see which gives a shorter time

MSmits: each language has its own

MSmits: timing functions I mean

MSmits: python -> import time

MSmits: C# -> Stopwatch class

MSmits: etc.

DoxLee: javscipt :D

DoxLee: im actually too new for programing

DoxLee: just 3 month

DoxLee: sry for basic questions

MSmits: dont know what to do in js, but you can google it

MSmits: or someone here may tell you

MSmits: but its quiet time

DoxLee: thank you

DoxLee: may i ask one more questions

DoxLee: i actually asked :ASDSA

DoxLee: okey im gone ty :D

MSmits: you can always ask

DoxLee: thank you

Default avatar.png JBM: ok, native anglophones, above <=> hereabove; under <=> hereunder; BENEATH <=> ???

Default avatar.png JBM: strange how there's suddenly no american left despite it being their TZ

Default avatar.png nopnop: hi, i'm new, how can i send a mp to someone ?

Default avatar.png JBM: that's not going to help your newlyness

SPDene: what's mp?

Default avatar.png nopnop: private message

Default avatar.png JBM: military police

SPDene: click on their name to open a new tab

Default avatar.png nopnop: yes but he doesn't speak in the chatroom

Default avatar.png JBM: make him

SPDene: log on to facebook and message him there instead?

Default avatar.png JBM: what's fb?

SPDene: foreign body?

Default avatar.png iloveyii: Hi world !

Default avatar.png JBM: Password:

SPDene: hunter2

Default avatar.png JBM: oh, stars

Default avatar.png JBM: the usual

dominggo: >?<

Andriamanitra: ahhhh why can't it show the title of the clash afterwards

Andriamanitra: just had another one of these where the test cases don't match validators and now it will forever bother me what i did wrong

Default avatar.png JBM: 1-star rating

Default avatar.png JBM: that'll show it

Andriamanitra: wdym

Fougere: Ok anybody know which JS do I kill to get rid of autocomplete please?

Default avatar.png JBM: I wish I knew!

Gorbit99: there's a css trick apparently, but it didn't work for me specifically

Gorbit99: test injecting ".editor-widget { display: none; }" into the css

Gorbit99: Fougere

Fougere: Doesn’t work for me either, the autocomplete popup doesn’t show up but it does its thing anyway if I press Return.

Gorbit99: yup, just like me

Fougere: :(

Gorbit99: I'm sure there's a way to kill it, probably with an event or something

Gorbit99: the editor is called monaco if you want to do some tinkering

Gorbit99: seems like it uses vscode as the base

Gorbit99: hmm, apparently setTimeout(() => editor.trigger(, 'hideSuggestWidget', null)

Allis: Nice.

Gorbit99: I'm testing it

Gorbit99: just have to find out what the editor variable is called

Always_on_road: I meet a problem, I do not know how to make a security check when join the " clash of code ", is there anyone could help?

Andriamanitra: you've been exposed as a robot and i'd rather not help your kind to take over the world

Always_on_road: But why? I just don' t understand

tutubalin: Clash of Code is overtaken by bots like BitWolf, Tychkorg, BSoD and others.

brimonk: Woah, you mean I'm beating bots? Amazing.

tutubalin: In order to enter CoC you need to prove you are a bot.

brimonk: wait

brimonk: uh oh

jrke: hey you need to prove you are not a bot

tutubalin: Bots don't like strangers

tutubalin: So at least you need to pretend you're a bot until they accept you


Lvl 7 users with 40k+ clashes on top of leaderboard are bots.

Default avatar.png zheheng: any idea why people dont share their codes?