Allis: Might be useful: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_constants
Putnam3145: well, the principle is, surely
Andriamanitra: whoever made the security check system for clashes must not be the sharpest tool in the shed
Andriamanitra: oh you completed a captcha 3 minutes ago? better make sure you haven't turned into a robot!
Andriamanitra: i've solved 3 captchas in the last 10 minutes it feels like i'm being used
jacek: thats part of the challenge: make captcha solving bot
eulerscheZahl: captchas start appearing when you play too many clashes in a row
Andriamanitra: i have no clue what the logic is, some days i don't get any security checks and some days i get captcha EVERY. SINGLE. CLASH.
eulerscheZahl: there used to be some users who cheated at CoC by using bots. that's why
Allis: There's probably some sort of reset that doesn't align with your time zone.
Allis: I understand why the captcha exists, but it could definitely be less heavy-handed.
Allis: eulerscheZahl, have you considered moving away from Heroku for your thing?
Allis: The dyno spindown is brutal.
eulerscheZahl: but it's free :P
eulerscheZahl: i don't even mind paying a few euros. it's more the process of buying a server. usually needs paypal or a credit card
jrke: is flask free?
Andriamanitra: can anyone explain wtf is going on with last two test cases of clash "Message packet"?
eulerscheZahl: yes jrke
eulerscheZahl: Andriamanitra quoting Boulet here: "Please avoid any utf8 char here. Not all languages can deal with them."
eulerscheZahl: i guess that's your issue
Andriamanitra: the problem statement explicitly said it's ASCII characters
eulerscheZahl: I would edit the last testcase+validator to avoid UTF8 but i don't have the permission :D
eulerscheZahl: i used to have. then moderation rules for clashes changed and i haven't participated 300 times yet
Allis: Andriamanitra, for what it's worth, Ruby makes that super-easy to handle.
Allis: `""<<codepoint` instead of `codepoint.chr`.
Andriamanitra: good to know
Allis: It implicitly uses the encoding of the empty string, which'll be UTF-8 on any modern Ruby.
eulerscheZahl: still a poor clash design IMO
Andriamanitra: yeah i might've even figured out what the problem is if it didn't say output should be ascii representation of the message
Allis: I find the "players loose" more objectionable than the ¾, but it's clearly a little unfair.
eulerscheZahl: i didn't even read that
jrke: is there any tool to play several matches without submitting
Putnam3145: matches of what?
Andriamanitra: btw eulerscheZahl your site tries to load css over http and browsers like to block mixed content
Andriamanitra: i only just found out what the site is supposed to look like, there was even a link to codingame that's not visible when the css doesn't load :grinning:
eulerscheZahl: huh? load for me
eulerscheZahl: <link rel="stylesheet" href="http://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jqueryui/1.8.16/themes/base/jquery-ui.css">
jrke: can i not create code golf
Allis: Are you asking whether you can make your Clash contribution eligible for shortest mode?
jrke: nope code golf
jrke: like temperatures
Allis: You're not communicating very clearly. :/
jrke: code golf game
jrke: not shortest mode clash
Allis: Same thing.
Allis: Oh, right. I see how you mean.
jrke: clash is other thing
jrke: like this is code golf
Allis: It does seem that that's not an option, which is a little strange.
Allis: Maybe any "in/out" puzzle can moonlight as a golf challenge?
Allis: Clashing with Haksell puts my heart rate in the triple digits. :sweat_smile:
KF_Kenny: Haskell is a great language
KF_Kenny: but not for shortest unfortunately lol
Andriamanitra: i really like the features haskell has but i hate the way you have to write it
Andriamanitra: the syntax is extremely counter-intuitive for me
Allis: Andriamanitra, ever seen this madness? https://gist.github.com/404pnf/6017155
KF_Kenny: I think haskell syntax is quite close to math once you get used to things like currying and using spaces for functional application. And then there is also all those weird looking operators like $, <*>
KF_Kenny: I still like it more than python
KF_Kenny: unfortunately I can't win any shortest contests with haskell so python will have to do
AntiSquid: TeccTanClaw see channel #clash , it's dedicated to clash invites
Andriamanitra: i'd be lying if i said i understand what's going on there Allis
Allis: It's an attempt to bring Haskell's list comprehension syntax to Ruby.
Allis: But it relies on all sorts of hackiness that makes it unusable in production, plus Ruby's Enumerable is already really nice anyway.
Andriamanitra: ah, that is indeed madness :smile:
_-: @Allis Clashing with Haksell puts my heart rate in the triple digits. :sweat_smile: Same as we playing you
Allis: Now I know how it feels. He is so freaking good.
Allis: Just absolutely demolishes me most of the time.
JakeCubes: I am just trying to do CoC in Java for the first time after doing a Codecademy course having always done CoC in Python
JakeCubes: It is ... very difficult
Allis: A fellow cuber?
_-: One time I saw you defeating him easily lol May be that feeling might be mutual
Allis: I manage to get a win off him every now and then, but it's always nerve-wracking. But I think that's when it's most fun. :)
jrke: By any pathfinder you can find shortest path
jrke: as well as distance
jacek: good afternoon
eulerscheZahl: happy Caturday
MSmits: it's friday
eulerscheZahl: wait, what? :scream:
MSmits: go to work, fast!
eulerscheZahl: just kidding, took off 2 weeks
MSmits: already lost track of time huh
MSmits: little over a week till school starts
MSmits: really wondering what it'll be like
eulerscheZahl: and for how long
MSmits: corona surging a bit because of stupid people
eulerscheZahl: this will keep going for a long time
MSmits: also newest research shows the kids I am teaching spread the virus just as easily as adult
MSmits: so maybe it'll be half filled classes or something like that
eulerscheZahl: they just got a harder lockdown (closed schools) affecting the stats
MSmits: with partial online
eulerscheZahl: that sounds weird to teach for you
MSmits: what do you mean
MSmits: it's weird yes, i did it for 2 weeks
eulerscheZahl: at some point i heard about the theory of kids being less likely to spread the disease
eulerscheZahl: but statistical bias, they just had less social contacts
MSmits: yeah makes sense
MSmits: also because they show so little symptoms, there is not much data
MSmits: there wasnt much testing capacity, they would only test people going to the hospital
MSmits: basically, if school happens as normal, the teachers are the people who are screwed
MSmits: and every grandpa of those students
MSmits: and grandma
Astrobytes: Locking down parts of Scotland because of a***holes going on pub crawls etc, after being at restaurants etc
MSmits: I had one colleague that sent out an e-mail to suggest placing those see through screens in front of our desks
MSmits: i think that's pointless
MSmits: Astrobytes same everywhere
MSmits: young people and dumb people, or both
Astrobytes: Daft isn't it
eulerscheZahl: always a few people ruining it for everyone
MSmits: not so few though
eulerscheZahl: not only corona. you can even see that on CG: captchas for clashers
Astrobytes: They're prioritising getting the kids back to school now over restaurants etc. I can't see it going well, for all the reasons you point out
MSmits: if it was a few, there would be no problem by definition
MSmits: well it's a good priority
MSmits: kids > restaurants
MSmits: but classes of 30 is not gonna go well
Astrobytes: Yeah, just that the teachers are gonna be in the s**t up to their necks
MSmits: some of us are old too
MSmits: I have many colleagues over 60
Astrobytes: Yeah. We've got teachers who a technically still "shielding" (staying at home) being forced to go back to the classroom, without PPE etc. Totally irresponsible
Astrobytes: (at risk teachers that is, underlying health issues, age etc)
MSmits: masks would help, but it seems impossible to me to get all those kids wearing them
MSmits: and if just the teacher is wearing them it's only marginally helpful
MSmits: also he/she's the one that's talking and will be hard to understand
Astrobytes: Maybe distance/electronic learning should be the way forward. Minimal classroom/lecture time
MSmits: I think so yes
MSmits: if you can perfect it, you can do with 1 hr a week contact time
Astrobytes: But governments need to recognise this and modernise appropriately
MSmits: problem is that most teachers are not very good at it yet
MSmits: also it works poorly for young students
MSmits: and their parents need to go to work
Astrobytes: Yep. On both counts
Astrobytes: I think we've reached a point where education needs to change as well as the workplace, working hours, flexibility etc
MSmits: btw, I've always struggled with deciding to stay home or not when I've caught a cold. Some people will not accept this when you do
MSmits: I guess that's over now...
MSmits: teaching with a cold is particularly nasty
jacek: yay for covid for changing perspective of remote working/teaching
Astrobytes: For sure. I went to my cheffing jobs regardless, no choice. You need a death certificate to get out of that
MSmits: jacek agreed
Astrobytes: Got sent home with swine flu once, that was it
Astrobytes: Yes jacek
MSmits: so you're making food while carrying disease... awesome
MSmits: that's why we all go to restaurants, to pick up viruses...
Astrobytes: Yep :)
MSmits: if i know the chef has a cold, i will stay at home
MSmits: their screwing over their customers
jacek: the problem with remote teaching would be youngest students, teachers not knowing how to use stuff, and students who cant afford extra computer/tablet if used by other family member
MSmits: that's true JakeCubes
Astrobytes: Yeah we were just talking about that jacek. And yep, governments need to be ready to support families and teachers alike
MSmits: who the hell is JakeCubes
Astrobytes: donno but you pinged him
MSmits: it appears so
jacek: im antisocial anyway, so except for wearing mask, nothing changed for me :v
MSmits: except for work that is
eulerscheZahl: that's why we spend our time here on CG
eulerscheZahl: being antisocial
MSmits: yay for antisocial
jacek: well i was forced to remote work for 3 months, and it will be probably back for the fall
Astrobytes: Sociably antisocial
jacek: well, not 'forced' per se
eulerscheZahl: i'm remote-working for almost 4 months now. not sure when i will return
dbdr: the real antisocal people don't even chat on CG
MSmits: good point
Astrobytes: I'm remote working for this job anyway, regardless of Covid. Not sure what's gonna happen with the conservation centre, we rely a lot on group visits, tours, activities etc
eulerscheZahl: others dragged me into the chat, they pinged me first
jacek: Automaton2000 or AutomatonNN?
Automaton2000: he does not like it
AutomatonNN: ideal didn't find it
dbdr: you must have chatted before you got pinged
eulerscheZahl: i think it was during GitC that I got active on the chat
MSmits: at least Automaton2000 knows you dont like it eulerscheZahl
Automaton2000: but i would still be the same for the opponent
eulerscheZahl: was doing quite well, that gives you attention
dbdr: they pinged you because of your results?
eulerscheZahl: i was first for a long time
eulerscheZahl: afk lunchtime
MSmits: I started chatting here I think because I was always asking for help
Astrobytes: You started chatting during Code Royale, same as me
MSmits: Robo inoryy and euler mostly helping me out
MSmits: and I think marchete
dbdr: they regret it now ;)
dbdr: I remember reading about engines and sims during meanmax contest
dbdr: that was all new to me in this context
dbdr: *in the chat
Astrobytes: Yeah, I didn't have the foggiest idea what was going on during CR. Sim this, search that.
MSmits: yeah me neither, well, i figured it out during the contest
MSmits: got a halfway decent flight sim for the queen
Astrobytes: Yup. Then after the contest I went full-on research mode
MSmits: dbdr what about engines btw?
MSmits: i dont hear that word much
Astrobytes: the game engine
MSmits: like the referee?
dbdr: yeah, similar to sim really
MSmits: oh ok
MSmits: i guess the jargon changed
Astrobytes: engine being the game mechanics really
MSmits: I see
dbdr: I remember reading M*gus article about csb and finding it strange he was basically reimplementing the referee
dbdr: from the software engineering point of view, seems like duplication of effort
MSmits: ah yes
MSmits: to me that was completely natural, I was always reverse engineering game mechanics for minmaxing, even before I could code
MSmits: i would make excel tools and such
dbdr: minmaxing without coding? :thinking:
MSmits: minmaxing has a different meaning in gaming
Astrobytes: maximising skills/traits etc
MSmits: it's basically knowing the game formulas so you can optimize gameplay
MSmits: I would make attack calculators for browser games and such
Astrobytes: As an ex Diablo player, I get that
dbdr: yeah, did some of that too :)
MSmits: ah yeah diablo is a good example
MSmits: i didnt do it for that one, but mostly for online strategy games
jacek: and i see ive been outclasses in othello :F
MSmits: I just changed 1 line of code jacek, to be honest
jacek: no ntuples yet? :scream:
dbdr: wow, gg!
MSmits: I don't like to be sneaky though
MSmits: so I'll just tell you right here I counterbooked all of you
MSmits: book war part I
dbdr: 4 games out of 5 I looked were 33/31
dbdr: suspicious :)
MSmits: my bot still does 50/50/40/10% winrate vs robo/tri trac/dbdr/jacek
MSmits: without book
MSmits: jacek is particularly painful to counterbook btw
jacek: i would rather learn how to automatically generate book than hardcoding ones for opponents
MSmits: i am also automatically generating it
dbdr: ask MSmits ;)
MSmits: it's just too slow
MSmits: I am impatient
dbdr: I just implemented basic minimax in Go
MSmits: that seems very hard
MSmits: well not the minimax
MSmits: but any sensible heuristics
dbdr: it's not hard to do ;)
dbdr: just hard to make good
MSmits: well for me it's breakthrough first
dbdr: there is no really strong bot yet I think
Andriamanitra: in ruby there's a golf-y way to map keys from array into corresponding values in a hash right? i can't remember the syntax and google is not helping me
dbdr: must be google conspiring to promote go ;)
MSmits: I see, wonder what'll happen on go. Is it easy to steal google a bot and adapt to CG?
dbdr: (sorry, I don't know much ruby)
MSmits: same Andriamanitra
dbdr: it's not the same game. atari go
MSmits: whats different
Andriamanitra: ah, hash.values_at(arr)
dbdr: atari only counts captures
dbdr: go is about territory
MSmits: oh I see
MSmits: so empties dont count
dbdr: more or less
dbdr: I'm no expert at go
MSmits: never played it
jacek: how fast is 19x19 sim?
jacek: do you bitboard it
MSmits: crappy numbers for bitboard
dbdr: I do bitboard
jacek: and well, im gonna be prepared in breakthrough
MSmits: prepared for what jacek?
jacek: for you
MSmits: you mean in case I do a book?:
MSmits: not sure it's viable to do a book there
MSmits: early branching is enormous
jacek: in case you make bot
jacek: i made some improvements lately
MSmits: oh did you do a NN?
dbdr: go is even worse for book, I think
MSmits: useless on go
MSmits: thats cool jacek
dbdr: there's actually a variant of go on a torus
MSmits: you're getting good at this
dbdr: which is clever
dbdr: no special case for borders
jacek: i wish there were separate accessible leagues for go different sizes
dbdr: so there is only one first move :)
MSmits: like othello
dbdr: tere is othello on a torus?
MSmits: no but there is only 1 move, as you know :P
dbdr: should we release Go 9x9 as a separate game?
dbdr: ah yes
dbdr: might make sense, esp on CG with the short response time
dbdr: is that what you meant jacek?
MSmits: that's what I thought when i saw the contribution tests
MSmits: ohh go 9x9, perfect for CG
dbdr: I was thinking of atari go 9x9
dbdr: which would be a trivial job :)
dbdr: and I need a contibution ;)
MSmits: should probably ask the creator
Astrobytes: I think he'll be fine with it
dbdr: I also wonder if there is a problem of having too many games
MSmits: I do too :P
jacek: lets ask struct
Astrobytes: The more the merrier imo
MSmits: they need to make categories though
dbdr: right, categories is a good idea
jacek: i think there are too many board games anyway
dbdr: also, making sure of good quality
MSmits: it's a string in all caps MoharSUr
Astrobytes: I think there should be a board games category, some people can't get enough board games
MSmits: yes, should be separate
Astrobytes: It's a niche
MSmits: it's a really different experience
dbdr: yeah, maybe less fun for beginners
Astrobytes: It would be interesting to see some other new games, but it seems the only people making any are into board games
dbdr: harder to do heuristics, and less "exotic"
MSmits: I think so, you really need a search algortihm
MSmits: Astrobytes other games generally require more art
MSmits: = more work
MSmits: animations and such
dbdr: art can be found online
Astrobytes: JBM can take care of that, or euler :)
MSmits: still though, compare referee sizes
MSmits: PCR = 2k, average board game a few 100 lines at most
MSmits: and PCR is a simple game
dbdr: isn't PCR the one with two engines, only one of them being used?
MSmits: I guess the physics makes it big
dbdr: two different collision methods
MSmits: yeah, but the unused code is not that big
MSmits: it's mostly that phyiscs requires a lot of vector stuff
MSmits: many many methods
dbdr: right, but that's not super hard and you can reuse that
MSmits: true, but I think it scares people
jacek: physics is scary
MSmits: for some
dbdr: well, if you do heuristics it matters less
dbdr: physics teachers are scary ;)
MSmits: i mean as a creator
eulerscheZahl: jacek 12:42PM lets ask struct
i wish we could :(
MSmits: do you think maybe he changed identity again?.
Astrobytes: Yeah, maybe he's been clashing 24/7 under a new ID
eulerscheZahl: he might got run over by a bus without us knowing i have no idea
MSmits: let's hope not =/
Astrobytes: Yeah, I do hope he's OK. He does disappear though.
eulerscheZahl: let's wait until someone suggests to use the intel debugger for C++
eulerscheZahl: then odds are high that we found him again
MSmits: or even if not, someone close enough
mikitosina1: Ребят, всем привет! Стало интересно, а есть вообще в ascii баква "хуй"? Прошу прощения за мат.
eulerscheZahl: go to #ru
eulerscheZahl: i fear i scared him off with the JS part of my game
MSmits: is that the secret game?
eulerscheZahl: i'll wait till thibaud is back from holidays and start harassing him :)
Astrobytes: Hopefully that goes well! I miss a summer contest
dbdr: I asked the question about 9x9 atari
field3: Atari Go is for Go beginners and is often called "ponnuki igo" in Japanese. Wikipedia introduces the technique of Go in "List of Go terms".:relaxed:
dbdr: feel free to up/downvote and discuss
dbdr: does ponnuki mean capture?
jrke: there is a puzzle also a game of go on cg
eulerscheZahl: we know
dbdr: field3: nice python bot in go
dbdr: defending the japanese colors :)
Astrobytes: "A Ponnuki is worth 30 points"
Astrobytes: - Go proverb
dbdr: My little Ponnuki
field3: Is it the meaning of taking lightly in Japanese?
dbdr: ah, ponnuki is called oeil in french (eye)
Astrobytes: "The word ponnuki (ポン抜き) breaks up into pon and nuki, in which pon is supposedly the imaginary sound of a stone being captured, while nuki means "taking out" (noun)."
dbdr: nukes also do that :/
Astrobytes: Yeah dbdr, it's referring to the diamond shaped formations you get
dbdr: is eye used in english for go?
eulerscheZahl: Onomatopoeia, nice
dbdr: that article does not mention it
Astrobytes: you have an eye in the four stone capture, and you aim to get 2 eyes in other formations
field3: I'm coding a bit of "Tesuji". There are various ways to put stones together.
dbdr: field3: so you recognize patterns? no search?
Astrobytes: Yes, I watched some of your games and saw you are using some techniques
Astrobytes: There are many different strategies and tactics one can use
eulerscheZahl: meanwhile the next board game is pending already: dots and boxes
Astrobytes: Just looking at that now
eulerscheZahl: i've seen it before. in the real world
SPDene: I log on and find my language is set to scala. "what the heck did I do last night??" :P
eulerscheZahl: you were golfing power of thor
SPDene: probably that too
Astrobytes: There cannot be any other explanation
eulerscheZahl: or someone stole your login whatever is more likely
SPDene: nah - I was getting achievments
field3: Python doesn't work for read ahead. Counting open locations is equivalent to read ahead.
eulerscheZahl: CG sponsored, A*Craft, CGFunge, Number shifting, rubiks cube, 1 puzzle in golf+normal mode
that's the golden language achievement
Astrobytes: Speaking of golf, I managed to claw my way up to 34th somehow
eulerscheZahl: 60th at least
eulerscheZahl: and for one puzzle there is a published solution shorter than my own best in python would feel shabby to submit it :(
Astrobytes: I'll do more on Sunday, Sunday is golf day for me these days
eulerscheZahl: but for chuck norris i took inspiration at least
Astrobytes: I like golfing languages I have no idea about. It's awful yet strangely fun.
jrke: i can't golf my ruby more in temperature :(
MSmits: I spent some time googling golf tips and found a lot of weird languages where you can code programs with 5 characters
eulerscheZahl: like golfscript2?
Astrobytes: Yeah, golfing langs are very strange
MSmits: not sure what they're called euler
MSmits: it just looked weird
eulerscheZahl: http://www.hacker.org/hvm/ that one gave me a hard time
field3: I did about 20 pattern recognitions, including some that didn't seem to be useful.:slight_smile:
eulerscheZahl: run this on the link above:
dbdr: yay, #1 in D&B :D
MSmits: whats that?
MSmits: Death and Beyond?
MSmits: Dishes and Bathwater?
Astrobytes: Drum & Bass
dbdr: oh, we need Dots and Boxes: Death and Reincarnation
jrke: oh new bot programming WIP
Astrobytes: D B D R lol
jrke: DB&DR 1ST IN D&B :)
dbdr: not a single defeat
MSmits: i havent even played Eric's last game yet !
MSmits: was on my list for a while
MSmits: I like it. Notoriously hard to write a bot for
eulerscheZahl: "was"? it disappeared from your list?
dbdr: which one, twixt?
MSmits: well, too much else to do
dbdr: why is it hard?
eulerscheZahl: you don't like crossing lines?
MSmits: because a human can see easily what to play, most of the time, but it's hard to formulate rules to capture that
MSmits: right euler :)
MSmits: it's a bit like go i think, twixt
MSmits: many options, but not many that make sense
dbdr: D&B looks very similar visually
MSmits: oh that game
dbdr: damn, looks like ppl have real bots in league 2
MSmits: mmh this one is in danger of being solvable maybe
MSmits: not sure
MSmits: depends on how big the field is
MSmits: not that big
MSmits: well it's probably weakly solvable at most
MSmits: It's probably possible to mathematically prove many moves are bad and prune them, but that doesn't mean the opponent can't still play them
MSmits: I'm gonna be interested in this game
MSmits: 7*8 + 7*8 = 112 moves
MSmits: nah, it's fine
dbdr: probably like othello, fewer andn fewer legal moves as game progresses
jrke: but if opponent plays pruned moves then it will be bad choice by opponent
jacek: 7x7? w00t
jacek: i think something like 3x4 or maybe 4x5 was solved
jacek: x 4?
field3: UDLR 4
jacek: and the game board makes that black dots illussion
eulerscheZahl: 8*8*4 isn't it?
eulerscheZahl: as all borders can be marked
MSmits: hmm no
MSmits: you got 8 * 7 verticals
MSmits: 8*7 horizontals
MSmits: 8*8*4 double counts some
eulerscheZahl: left side of one cell is the same as right side of the neighbor
MSmits: also dbdr it's different from Othello as Othello diverges, then converges again
MSmits: it's more like yavalath, starts with the maximum amount of moves, then converges
Astrobytes: lol, just realised it's my birthday
MSmits: congrats :)
Astrobytes: Only realised when my sister called me
MSmits: I always forget also until someone tells me
Astrobytes: easily done!
eulerscheZahl: madknight always told us when it was his birthday
eulerscheZahl: his is in January
Astrobytes: So he wouldn't forget?
eulerscheZahl: just waiting for congratulations
eulerscheZahl: i'm also more on the forgetting the own birthday side
Astrobytes: I fail to see the point of celebrating
Astrobytes: I stopped celebrating at 30
eulerscheZahl: well done you managed to survive another year without dying
Astrobytes: Only just
field3: I had a feeling that the A7-R and the B7-L were different, but it is a mistake.:wink:
Astrobytes: I prefer to think of it as "one year closer to death"
eulerscheZahl: one more year of physical decay
Astrobytes: Far too optimistic viewpoint for me :P
dbdr: how's your XP/age ratio evolving over time?
field3: happy Birthday. This is the song I was listening to while I was making the go program while frustrated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kff_DXor7jc
MSmits: why are people posting opening books in the comments?
dbdr: https://i.snipboard.io/RCXqKZ.jpg when in doubt, ask eulerscheZahl :D
Astrobytes: lol, quite well I guess dbdr!
Astrobytes: Thank you field3 :)
Astrobytes: MSmits, hahaha well played
MSmits: nice song though
Astrobytes: Definitely your kind of song
dbdr: MSmits: it's steganography
MSmits: now you're just making up words
dbdr: like when spies were communicating by publishing code words in minor newspaper articles
Astrobytes: Steganography is real
MSmits: ahhh I see
Astrobytes: Nowadays it's still hiding data in other data, images, sound files, documents, executables
MSmits: I'll watch my othello games to see if any swastikas appear
MSmits: thanks for warning
dbdr: you can hide data in moves of your cg bot
dbdr: those are in Tower Dereference
dbdr: eulerscheZahl had to add filtering to remove them from random maps
MSmits: you're serious?
MSmits: that's so funn
Astrobytes: The maps are swastika shaped?
dbdr: maps are symmetrical
MSmits: I can imagine him going over all the possible swastika shaped maps to filter them
MSmits: ohhh no not another one
dbdr: not sure how he does it, need to check the referee
MSmits: wait... does the referee now have hardcoded swastikas?
Astrobytes: if (swastika) continue;
Astrobytes: The code is shaped like that MSmits
MSmits: it would be even funnier if, in an effort to fix his game, he ended up with a referee with a whole list of filtered swastikas :P
Uljahn: make a white list of approved maps and sample from it
Astrobytes: "white list" :smirk:
Astrobytes: Very appropriate in this context :D
Uljahn: ye, my bad. how do you call it in politically correct way?
Astrobytes: No idea
dbdr: there were suggestions like passlist, acceptlist
dbdr: vs blocklist
SPDene: blocked list / allowed list ?
Astrobytes: works for me
Astrobytes: bad list/good list
dbdr: naughty list
dbdr: that's a good point for the change, it's more fun :D
MSmits: all these board games with black vs white are a minefield of possible racism
dbdr: they don't have a notion of good/bad, do they?
MSmits: no i mean
dbdr: apart from who starts
MSmits: it's easy to say the wrong thing
dbdr: but it's not always good to stat
dbdr: ah yes :)
MSmits: when talking about it
dbdr: capture the whites
Kacper_D: "all these board games with black vs white are a minefield of possible racism" - funniest thing I've heard today
MSmits: as you see here... white is superior, ehh has a superior position to black here...
Uljahn: not in go
MSmits: how so
dbdr: on a specific board I think
Uljahn: in go black is to move first and white has komi
Astrobytes: like a handicap awarded for certain positions that black takes
Astrobytes: to balance the advantage
MSmits: why not just use pie rule?
dbdr: isn't it to compensate for starting advatage?
Uljahn: dbdr yes
dbdr: not sure any position is negative
MSmits: oh there is no balanced position?
MSmits: to start?
MSmits: it's perfect for yavalath, seems quite a few balanced positions
Uljahn: they said most balanced position for the first move is between 3-3 and 2-3 :smiley:
dbdr: the pie rule: I pick a position, and if you're not happy you can smash a pie in my face as compensation
MSmits: Uljahn 3-3 in go?
MSmits: dbdr exactly, works well
MSmits: ah ok, cuz 2-3 in yavalath is balanced, but 3-3 is solved
Uljahn: 3-3 is considerd more agressive and 2-3 less
MSmits: is this balanced including komi ?
MSmits: or balanced without the komi
Uljahn: with komi ofc
MSmits: what i meant is, are there any balanced moves without komi
MSmits: or are all starts advantageous
MSmits: meaning you always need compensation
Uljahn: there is an explicit handicap for balancing levels of players - additional stones
Uljahn: on board
dbdr: found a map: https://prnt.sc/pv08u4
MSmits: pie rule in go
Astrobytes: Rarely used though
MSmits: yea apparently
dbdr: > "One player chooses komi, the other one chooses sides." (Fair Komi <https://senseis.xmp.net/?FairKomi>) guarantees jigo for perfect play.
dbdr: I don't think that's true
dbdr: if jigo means draw
MSmits: pie rule doesnt guarantee a draw no
MSmits: it only garantees a draw if at least one starting move is solved as a draw
MSmits: for games that are nowhere near solvable and that you can't detect any imbalance in the most balanced starting moves, it doesn't matter though
dbdr: > A possible alternative is that if both agree on the same value then nigiri can be done.
FLQ4: how can i convert from binary to decimal in python
MSmits: pie rule would be great for uttt
dbdr: isn't nigiri food?
FLQ4: like a string of binary to number
MSmits: so they dont get dinner if they dont agree?
dbdr: looks like the first step to learn Go is to learn Japanese :D
dbdr: nigiri pie
MSmits: I bet many serious go players do learn japanese
dbdr: might be a lot of litterature too
dbdr: though I think it's also super popular in Korea and China
dbdr: so better learn all 3 languages
dbdr: and Go in your next life
MSmits: One player chooses komi, the other one chooses sides,.... this does guarantee a solved draw though if both players do this perfectly
MSmits: because without komi, when both players play perfectly, there is a net score
MSmits: say +2
MSmits: then the perfect komi would be 2
MSmits: and since you can choose sides, it would be a draw
dbdr: even without choosing sides
dbdr: if both play perfectly
dbdr: it does not matter which side you play ;)
MSmits: if the komi is set correctly
dbdr: so you're and they were right, thanks!
MSmits: np :)
dbdr: there is a scene in Futurerama: Bender and Fry sit down to play chess. Bender announces mat in 73 moves
MSmits: and they immediately stop I guess?
dbdr: that's why they have to compliexify the rules
MSmits: hehe yeah i just found that looking for that scene
MSmits: it's not the one you mentioned though... still funny
MSmits: ah yeah
dbdr: seems I misremembered the players
CHARLITOTI: Hello world !
dbdr: i have a shorter mate up my sleeve ;)
dbdr: "no poo" ?
eulerscheZahl: was afk for a bit, i guess i'm late now: i don't filter any maps for tower dereference
dbdr: right, could not find the commit
dbdr: I just suggested it
dbdr: but you increased branching
dbdr: probably solved it
dbdr: lol, first comment iin the chess mate video: Alpha Zero v.s Stockfish.
dbdr: story behind it?
field3: video of Go. Display in English with subtitles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tl5iuDOmI5g
dbdr: I like hearing japanese
jacek: anime subs > dub?
Astrobytes: me too dbdr, very pleasing on the ears
Astrobytes: The subtitles are magnificent :D understandable but hilarious at times
field3: You can display various languages with subtitles.:relieved:
Astrobytes: "When doctors are connected, it's like that image of being in love and creating a position" :)
dbdr: Hinto means Hint :)
Astrobytes: Quite a good video actually, easy enough to follow along
dbdr: makes me thinkg 9x9 is too easy :D
field3: This is also likely to be helpful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bTOZfBRYAI
dbdr: why doesn't back respond with 7,2?
dbdr: ah I see
dbdr: though maybe still better than what he does
dbdr: "it's a big incident" :D
field3: Isn't 9x9 the most played game on the net? I also only do 9x9. 19x19 hasn't been in a long time.:slight_smile:
dbdr: no idea, but it gets harder. only the beginning seemed very simple, also because so many moves were symmetrical
dbdr: this is a beginner video, right?
field3: I checked it, but it is for beginners.
field3: This is more likely to be useful for Atari Go. Yukari Umezawa is a famous professional player in Japan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vp1b2rWVgA&t=32s
Astrobytes: thank you for the videos field3
field3: I'm glad I could introduce this. Go and Shogi are recommended games for those who enjoy Codin Game.:slight_smile:
Astrobytes: Yes, I agree :)
Washier: Only now see MSmits took #1 in Othello. wow. wd
MSmits: until jace k or dbd r resubmits a slightly differently trained bot and I need to redo my book :P
MSmits: well expand, not redo
wlesavo: rebook my do
MSmits: your do?
wlesavo: yours, i have no do in othello :smiley:
MSmits: what's a do?
wlesavo: nwm, it was just a silly pun
MSmits: ahh went woosh, sorry
Astrobytes: redo my book -> rebook my do
Washier: professor was miles away
Astrobytes: Correct ThaddeusQ3
MSmits: wlesavo spooned me
MSmits: wait, that didn';t come out right
Astrobytes: that's going in my profile some day
Hjax: wow grats smits
MSmits: thanks, did not change much about my bot though, I just put in book moves
MSmits: it's still quite beatable
MSmits: I did the same in yavalath, but that bot is much harder to beat
AntiSquid: what game?
dbdr: MSmits ad wlesavo, get a room ;)
wlesavo: MSmits would you prefer to be a big spoon or a little one? :slight_smile:
eulerscheZahl: for perfect spooning both need the same size
dbdr: not according to the expression
Astrobytes: listen to eulerscheLöffel
Washier: i find that if the spoonee is smaller than the spooner, its more intimate
SPDene: if spooner is involved, would it be "or mintimate" :P
eulerscheZahl: that's not a knife MSmits, that's a spoon
Astrobytes: lol SPDene
SPDene: don't be such a messer eulerscheZahl :)
Washier: aah Dundee
dbdr: big spoon covers little spoon, little spoon digs into mashed potatoes, mashed potatoes drown big spoon I feel there is a multi potential
dbdr: but needs refinement
dbdr: ah, fog is missing!
Astrobytes: Game of Spoons
dbdr: great title!
Washier: make it happen
Astrobytes: Orrrrr... Löffelspiel!
Washier: that word has such a nice sound to it
dbdr: we can reuse the art of Code à la Mode for background
Astrobytes: Only if you shout it Washier
eulerscheZahl: don't you get between me and Thibaud before i had a chance to pitch my idea :rage:
Astrobytes: You already made Löffelspiel?
dbdr: we guessed it by complete accident?
Washier: like Lindemann
dbdr: improbability drive!
AntiSquid: ok chat is weird, people talking about spooning each other Automaton2000 do something :/
Automaton2000: i did not think of that
Washier: i come here every Friday this time for the chat
Washier: like a very weird soap
Astrobytes: Lindemann as in Till?
dbdr: AntiSquid: would be quicker to mention when chat is *not* weird
eulerscheZahl: spammers are the "normal" part of this chat
AntiSquid: idk i am sure there are usually healthy conversations
Astrobytes: We were talking about Go earlier, and field 3 gave us a bunch of videos in Japanese to help us out. That was a healthy convo
Washier: i followed it. yes.
Astrobytes: Especially since we don't see field in world chat much
AntiSquid: who is field
Astrobytes: field 3
AntiSquid: ya, still don't remember that user
AntiSquid: too often away from chat drama i guess
wlesavo: is there any spoon japanese videos?
Astrobytes: AntiSquid https://www.codingame.com/profile/383fcd61feda976632248fa1eea901563360922
Washier: back to soap
Astrobytes: lol wlesavo
Hjax: ive been trying to learn japanese, its very difficult
dbdr: wlesavo: I'm sure there is...
wlesavo: im too afraid to google it
dbdr: well, the keywords are inoffensive
Astrobytes: here you go (SFW don't worry): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htvvstOTHpA
AntiSquid: what about ginosaji ?
AntiSquid: that's sort of a japanese spoon video
Astrobytes: Indeed it is
dbdr: never forget to cook your spoons
Hjax: oh my gosh
Hjax: i totally forgot about that
dbdr: raw spoon is hard to digest
Astrobytes: lol dbdr
Hjax: the horribly slow murderer with the extremely inefficient weapon
Astrobytes: 'Jack's happy place'
Astrobytes: My mate made me sit and watch that and all the sequels in one sitting
Hjax: spoon vs spoon!
Astrobytes: Ginosaji vs. Ginosaji was the one with the squirrel I think
Astrobytes: Very amusing little films
Astrobytes: It'll wrap around back to A
PYHAWK: "".join(map(lambda x: 1-x, Input()) )
Hjax: do you need help with that snippet PYHAWK?
Hjax: try converting your input to a list of integers first, otherwise your lambda will blow up
Hjax: unless Input() already does that and you didnt mean input()
**MSmits cannot process command "test"
**MSmits cannot process command "hi"
**MSmits cannot process command "hiiiii"
jacek: rm -rf /*
MSmits: welcome dep :P
**Astrobytes deactivates MSmits
**MSmits powering down
MSmits: working on my breakthrough sim now. Still thinking about the board representation and move generation
Astrobytes: doesn't seem complex from what I've seen, straightforward bitboards and pawn movegen no?
MSmits: hmm yeah it's not hard to make something that works
MSmits: I'm just fussing over the most efficient way, as always
Astrobytes: Always :)
MSmits: I am doing two uint64_t as everyone else probably does
Astrobytes: Can't knock your methods, seems to work well!
MSmits: yeah usually
MSmits: I am trying to decide between one oriëntation
MSmits: like, p1 is below, p2 is above
Astrobytes: Oh I see
MSmits: or do both players from their own perspectiv
MSmits: like in oware, you are always p1
MSmits: only in this version of breakthrough both players play as if they are p1
MSmits: with the same lookup arrays and such
jacek: this is called 'board inversion'
MSmits: oh right, I should have known that it is a thing
MSmits: do you think this is a good idea for breakthrough?
MSmits: you probably invert it for the NN
jacek: dunno, i use standard approach for everything
MSmits: ah I do something different everywhere it seems :(
MSmits: partially caused by the different input structure
MSmits: I tend to build on that
MSmits: like sometimes, your id is always 0, sometimes you dont even get your id (like in oware(
jacek: technically i have double input for the NN, but board inversion might work as well
MSmits: hmm ok
jacek: well i dont care about the referee mechanics
MSmits: well me neither, or at least i shouldnt
jacek: Automaton2000 is
Automaton2000: get out of the bottom of the statement
MSmits: existential questions on a friday night
Astrobytes: No, simply figments of your imagination dep
MSmits: derp is an actual language spoken by derps, did you know?
MSmits: they live in the Netherlands
MSmits: not far from here
MSmits: derps translates to "language of the derp" derp = dorp = village
MSmits: village language
MSmits: consider yourself educated
**MSmits powering down again
jacek: derpy hooves lives there?
MSmits: the pony?
Astrobytes: Derpy hooves? wtf
Astrobytes: More pony refs :/
Astrobytes: I've never been called a stonk before.
MSmits: thats from around there
MSmits: do you recognize it?
MSmits: might be a distant cousin to derpy hooves
MSmits: Astrobytes you still haven't, I have :P
Astrobytes: I thought he was referring to us as stonks.
MSmits: dont know that meme
Astrobytes: it's something to do with stocks
Astrobytes: via imgur or something yes
MSmits: just no sexy stuff
MSmits: or scary stuff
Astrobytes: yeah that's the one
MSmits: only mildly
MSmits: why is there a stock market screen in a fashion store?
Astrobytes: Fashion store?
Astrobytes: Oh. No, that's Meme Man I believe
Astrobytes: I think that's what it's called
Memo12334: Standard Output Stream: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/d8c8b0f2-1113-4eab-9049-3fcbca924685
Astrobytes: You have a bug Memo12334 :)
MSmits: you can just strip the last N
MSmits: i wont be able to fix it exactly, but if you've almost solved it i can share my code, crappy as it is
Astrobytes: sure, not the whole solution though preferably
MSmits: what was the puzzle name?
MSmits: is that c++?
MSmits: not the easiest language to do string puzzles with
MSmits: there are many
MSmits: but also many others
dbdr: C++ is easier than C for strings I think
MSmits: dont doubt that
MSmits: ewww ugly python code (my solution)
Astrobytes: I did this one in C++, got confused trying to do it in Go lol
Astrobytes: I used a different method tbh
Astrobytes: Rather than testing explicitly if you went past 'Z', you can do something else
MSmits: you can type ast + tab
Astrobytes: Think about how to get the remainder of a division
Astrobytes: Have a play around using that and see what you come up with
Astrobytes: Noise currently, since my chair has broken
Astrobytes: Memo is working on a puzzle, I'm giving advice, not sure about anyone else
Hjax: im at work and just glancing at chat from time to time
Astrobytes: nice Memo12334
jacek: and i am tweaking my MLP
dbdr: jacek, your pic looked like a fraw after one move, was that real?
Hjax: MLP = my little pony? :P
jacek: dbdr that was meme from r/AnarchyChess
dbdr: my little ponnuki
jacek: carlsen so good he can see draw at move 1
Astrobytes: ah I remember that match
Hjax: that match made every fabio fan depressed
Hjax: 12 draws and then crushed in rapid
dbdr: r/AnarchyChess what next? r/CapitalismGo ?
Hjax: r/chess doesnt allow meme content
Hjax: and thus r/anarchychess was born
dbdr: yeah, there is r/RustJerk :)
dbdr: it's a good thing to split it
Hjax: the rust subreddit is a really nice place
Hjax: lots of productive discussions
dbdr: do you post?
Hjax: no i just lurk
dbdr: yes, and good spirit in general, polite even when disagreeing
dbdr: the few people who tried dissing other programming languages get downvoted to death :D
dbdr: hence the jerk
Hjax: from what ive seen everyone who uses rust really likes the language, and from what little rust ive written its easy to see why
Hjax: i plan on doing the fall contest in rust
Hjax: i just noticed youre a moderator, is that recent?
dbdr: I guess also, if you don't love the spirit of the language, you will quit very early because it's different and you need to learn stuff
Astrobytes: yeah, bunch of use got made mods the other week
dbdr: so yes, those who continue love it :)
dbdr: selection effect
Hjax: oooo astro too
Hjax: grats both of you
dbdr: yes, everyone without a profile pic will be banned one week from now
Astrobytes: euler as well
Hjax: it was a long time coming for euler especially lol
Hjax: hes so active
dbdr: especially if they've been member for long
dbdr: will you think of the loophole?
Astrobytes: yeah, I recommended euler to Thibaud for that reason Hjax
Hjax: join the cat army
MSmits: i hovered over your pic, i see the smiley
dep: done xd
dep: looks good man
MSmits: it's great
MSmits: true art
Astrobytes: dep art
dep: it is hand drawn by me though
Astrobytes: art dep-o
MSmits: that sounds better
MSmits: dep art sounds like you want him gone
dep: how u do red words-
MSmits: by saying your name
MSmits: dep dep
Astrobytes: It highlights if your name is mentioned dep
dep: n o
MSmits: you can't do it to yourself
dep: oh ok
MSmits: this is to stop people from talking to themselves
dep: oh it only appears to other ppl?
Astrobytes: Yep dep
dep: ok bak to working on this fun game hehe
MSmits: oh noes, the pony is back
Astrobytes: MSmits your pony video has awoken jacek's alterego
MSmits: I see it
derjack: oh i didnt do quest map here
MSmits: more clickfun
Astrobytes: I totally misread that
MSmits: I'm sure the clashers wont mind being wrecked by a pony 50 times
Hjax: i always clash in python, doing another language seems scary
MSmits: Ruby usually wins
Astrobytes: No Rust clashes? :)
MSmits: do ruby
Hjax: god rust clashing? thats terrifying
Hjax: not as bad as trying to use java in a code golf one though
dep: me who clashes in lua:
MSmits: seems oddly specific
MSmits: why me and why swift?
MSmits: only to you JBM
MSmits: ah ok
MSmits: well I am fairly competent with C# and python
MSmits: C++ only specifically to this setting
MSmits: nothing else
dbdr: reminds me when pb4 (I think) had great difficulty parsing a contest input in C++
MSmits: ahh ok
Astrobytes: Welcome to CG LIONSxLEADER :)
MSmits: yeah, I had problems with that in ooc
MSmits: parsing the c++ input
MSmits: ye welcome LIONSxLEADER
dbdr: players who can write a top class bot but struggle with beginner tasks
Astrobytes: Everyone's a beginner in something
dbdr: sure, but it's weird in that order
Hjax: i usually write a python bot first when i start a new contest or multi
Astrobytes: Yeah, it is :)
dep: how that works-
Hjax: because parsing the input is super easy in python
MSmits: that's because doing bots in CG is a very tiny subset of coding
Hjax: so i can make sure i understand the game
Hjax: in the case of pr2, i never stopped using python
dbdr: it's like being about to cook a super complex dish but not to boil an egg :D
MSmits: only thing I find somewhat challenging in python is getting the input into 2D arrays
Astrobytes: Does sometimes, not always
MSmits: it matters for some things Memo12334
MSmits: especially for simple board games that have great benefit from millions of simulations
Astrobytes: Did you solve Enigma Memo12334?
Hjax: and then in games like PR2, speed is largely irrelevant
MSmits: me too :P
Astrobytes: I'll PM you
MSmits: euler is great at this input thing right?
dbdr: JBM exactly
MSmits: he makes tools to format the json files from replays and such
dbdr: nothing need to be great at input
dbdr: sorry: nobody needs to be great at input parsing
MSmits: well maybe it just doesn't repel him as much as it does me
dbdr: can anyone be great at boiling an egg?
MSmits: you can suck at it though
dbdr: there's a minimum, but not much to improve after that
MSmits: the heat does most of the work
MSmits: mmh not exactly, but plenty of string manipulation puzzles
dbdr: MSmits. reminds me of the joke: all food ingredient list could be replaced wit simply two: - Hydrogen - Time
MSmits: the heart of CG is mostly in the bot challenges
Astrobytes: and you can view using the CG API and parsing the results as a puzzle too
MSmits: dbdr physics joke, not bad
MSmits: yes Memo12334
MSmits: we need more Dutch at the top
dbdr: yeah, happy to make jokes about things I only understand superficially :D
Hjax: with enough hydrogen and time you dont even have to prepare the food yourself
MSmits: i don't Memo12334, before I got to CG i was a physics teacher
MSmits: now I also teach Computer science (informatica)
Hjax: im a software engineer, but im not as cool as smits
MSmits: plenty cool Hjax
MSmits: I never engineered any real software
dbdr: what if the amount of time means you'll be dead before the food is cooked?
dbdr: dead of starvation
MSmits: then you can't eat it
dep: im a beginner at coding
dep: i just got into it last year
MSmits: thats cool
Hjax: ill consider myself cool if i win a contest
derjack: or delete account
dep: i started coding because of roblox ;V
MSmits: Memo12334 do lots of exercises I guess
dbdr: get the git gut book
Astrobytes: Same as most things!
MSmits: don't just read/watch, solve problems
MSmits: like you don't get good at soccer, by watching soccer games
derjack: and work in vacuum frictionless environment https://xkcd.com/669/
MSmits: don't be afraid to fail 100 times
MSmits: and have to look up solutions
dep: science and math is good
MSmits: fail, then do the same exercise a week later
Astrobytes: like organic chemistry, most people think it's too difficult because they don't do enough problems
MSmits: you forget the answer, but not the method, hopefully
Hjax: the master has failed more than the beginner has tried
Hjax: or something like that
MSmits: highest level in high school, 16-18 year olds
MSmits: both for physics and CS
MSmits: many here have big brains
MSmits: CG is a brain attractor
Astrobytes: Strange attractor :P
MSmits: they go together
MSmits: oh clashes
MSmits: I did my first clashes last week
Astrobytes: There's something for everyone here, hopefully
MSmits: been here for over 2 years
MSmits: never clashed before, but they did the quest map
Hjax: legend in what?
Washier: they are
MSmits: we have legend leagues in bot arena's Memo12334
MSmits: Guru you mean
MSmits: rank 1 to 100 are guru
Hjax: im not a guru, im a grandmaster
Hjax: some day guru
MSmits: just a matter of time
Hjax: matter of motivation to play multis
MSmits: this rank is partially a matter of time invested
MSmits: oh ok
MSmits: whats that? A puzzle?
MSmits: i seem to remember that
Hjax: the individual games have ranks that go up to legend, for instance i am legend in Crystal Rush
Astrobytes: All the multiplayer bot programming games have leagues like that
MSmits: that was your first contest right Hjax?
Hjax: first one i took seriously
MSmits: was it also your first bot experience here?
MSmits: oh ok
Hjax: i had messed around with PR and LC&M
Hjax: but only for a few hours each
MSmits: Locam is cool
Astrobytes: Ah Pull Request, some game that was :P
Hjax: and then i skipped OOC and gave up on pacman halfway through
Hjax: hoping the next contest will be better
MSmits: contests are hit and miss mostly. With multi's you know what you're getting into
Astrobytes: Yeah, can't please all the people all of the time
MSmits: Boardgames ruined me a bit. It's everything I like about contest games without the unnecessary bits
MSmits: pun unintended :P
Astrobytes: np Memo12334
dep: wow im rank 2 in wood 1 league
MSmits: rank 2 below boss you mean?
MSmits: is there much rating difference?
dep: but im having problems with boosting
MSmits: why a problem?
dep: my problem is idk how to find my own orientation
MSmits: CSB is a bit weird with the input changing each league
MSmits: dont remember what you get
dep: i wanna do boosts when im doing long straights
MSmits: makes sense
MSmits: generally I just boost at start
MSmits: it's almost always best
dep: i wanna make it smarter u know
MSmits: sometimes you overshoot the first turn
MSmits: I know
MSmits: but you're in wood1, it's not the most important thing
MSmits: try avoiding overshooting checkpoints in general
MSmits: reduce your speed at the right time and such
dep: hmmmmmm ok
MSmits: maybe turn off power if you are not facing in the direction you want to accelerate
MSmits: some angle margin or something
Washier: i also always boost at the start. and try to aim taking your velocity in account
dep: i try boosting at start
Hjax: my csb is like, the bare minimum to get the rating points lol
MSmits: if you get around rank 300 or so, you have beaten me LIONSxLEADER
MSmits: yeah but the validators are publicly available
MSmits: so i calculated offline
MSmits: it's only like this for a few puzzles btw,
MSmits: if i turn off my hardcoded solutions i am rank 200-300 or so, not sure
MSmits: been a while
MSmits: I'm not really into optimization arenas
MSmits: usually do botting
Hjax: yeah multis are more fun
Washier: i got 700th with some pretty simple c# heuristics.
MSmits: mine is simple too
MSmits: I think it's just MC
MSmits: yeah, you could get lucky :)
MSmits: getting 100% is not always easy
MSmits: i had some fails
dep: oh yeah why dont i ignore my orientations and just boost when the distance is kinda far
dep: instead of boosting at the start
Washier: concentrate on your cornering first
dep: is my cornering bad?
dep: i win most battles though
dep: idk about my cornering
Hjax: nothing seems to be loading but the chat
dep: ok got better than the boss lol
dep: just pure luck gg
public class entity
dep: no idea on js , sorry
Hjax: dont use a public class?
Astrobytes: drop the public
Hjax: just class entity
Astrobytes: Or put it inside your Player class
derjack: drop the bass
Astrobytes: DJ derjack in da house
Astrobytes: pony riddims
derjack: i lik playing pony music to pony haters. especially when they say its good
Astrobytes: Derjack ft. MC TS
Hjax: lol MC TS
Hjax: took me a second
Washier: please link pony music
derjack: i.e. orchestral https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NbyUtARW6I
derjack: or more pony-related https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoeC1bF9p4Q
Washier: second one nice n uplifting
derjack: now find pony haters and link those
dep: how u find ur own position and orientation in CSB?
dep: ok time to get some sleep anyways bai
MaliciouslyCrypticUsername: dep it tells you...
MaliciouslyCrypticUsername: In gold league it gives you absolute angle
Astrobytes: he's asleep MCU
MaliciouslyCrypticUsername: https://www.codingame.com/replay/480813920 my blocker needs to be smarter
MaliciouslyCrypticUsername: How to make it smarter tho? :thinking:
Astrobytes: give it a brain
MaliciouslyCrypticUsername: Good idea...
MaliciouslyCrypticUsername: *Inserts brain*
MaliciouslyCrypticUsername: Wow, it's looking smarter already
Astrobytes: I'm only half joking, write a sim & search for it
SPDene: * is worried who MaliciouslyCrypticUsername got that brain from *
MaliciouslyCrypticUsername: I got that brain from myself, don't worry
Astrobytes: SPDene you can do /me
Astrobytes: like that
**Hjax exists occasionally
**SPDene might not want to do you :P
**Astrobytes accepts that fact
**MaliciouslyCrypticUsername wonders if she can talk to automaton2000 like this
Automaton2000: still not sure how i will do it, but i think i just need to do
MaliciouslyCrypticUsername: i had an idea to move the point where the runner turns slightly toward the next checkpoint, but it doesn't seem to be working
MaliciouslyCrypticUsername: Hmmm it's working now...
Hjax: https://www.codingame.com/replay/480815100 your blocker blocked your other pod
Hjax: a tragedy
MaliciouslyCrypticUsername: Idk how to change that though
Kacper_D: I get bad_alloc thrown when running test online, but when I run same code locally everything's ok. Anyone had similar problems? Because I'm kinda lost now
eulerscheZahl: using C++?
eulerscheZahl: try using the same environment as CodinGame
eulerscheZahl: that is Linux and g++
eulerscheZahl: then you should see the same error i suppose
Kacper_D: Sounds like good idea
AntiSquid: js or go ? make up your mind
MSmits: anyone know the builtin function to reverse the bits in a uint64_t, if it exists?
MSmits: reverse the order i mean
MSmits: 1st becomes 64th
eulerscheZahl: i had a full lecture about bit rotation
eulerscheZahl: most efficient ways for different lengths using bitmasks
eulerscheZahl: you won't be able to do this in a single operation I think
MSmits: that's ok, i just want the fastest way
eulerscheZahl: https://jjj.de/bitwizardry/bitwizardrypage.html somewhere here
eulerscheZahl: bitrotate.h i guess
MSmits: mmh rotating words is different
AntiSquid: how do you find sites with those kind of names?
AntiSquid: jj.de lol
eulerscheZahl: just checked, rotate isn't it
tomatoes: that bit twiding page also mention some reversing
eulerscheZahl: you missed a j
tomatoes: from uttt forum topic
eulerscheZahl: and that prof was the 2nd corrector of my bachelor thesis
AntiSquid: stream title "getting new avatar"
eulerscheZahl: use your troll drawing as avatar
eulerscheZahl: like zerplin used his zoidberg
MSmits: can remove the #if stuff but this should be it
MSmits: still a little surprised there isn't a builtin for it
Astrobytes: told you it was revbin
Astrobytes: And yeah
MSmits: ah yeah you said
MSmits: mmh this one is table based
MSmits: is that better?
eulerscheZahl: there was a version without table
MSmits: yeah probably
Astrobytes: in the same file
MSmits: I see it, I wonder what will be better
Astrobytes: Only one thing for it... FIGHT!
Astrobytes: I mean, BENCHMARK!
Allis: On your bench, get mark. Go!
eulerscheZahl: you are linking weird stuff
Astrobytes: English TV :shrug:
Astrobytes: (it was the origin of my '... FIGHT!' reference)
Hjax: fun fact, rust has a reverse bits operation on its primitives
Hjax: not sure what machine code it emits
eulerscheZahl: easy to find out https://godbolt.org/
Hjax: wow that site is pretty cool
Hjax: core::num::<impl u64>::reverse_bits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/4f9b06bd-d2d9-4625-91ef-597b9b44bef8
Hjax: a bunch of magic numbers
Hjax: much shorter than i expecte
Astrobytes: A Discord server for codingame
Astrobytes: Excuse me?
Astrobytes: Look up top
Astrobytes: A blind man couldn't miss that "JOIN US ON DISCORD" button
eulerscheZahl: CG isn't always screenreader friendly i suppose
Astrobytes: He's not blind
Hjax: i feel like antagonizing a mod isnt in your best interest
Hjax: but hey, you do you
Astrobytes: Just go join a clash and carry on AggYzz
eulerscheZahl: and i'm not sure if i shall believe the story of being blind or not
eulerscheZahl: i've seen another user compaining about the IDE on the forum, struggling with the screenreader
eulerscheZahl: and some games are a pain for colorblind people of course. red and orange are way too similar even for me (I can see colors)
Astrobytes: He's not blind, he's regular. Clashes a lot, swears a lot
Astrobytes: Annoying but not terrible.
eulerscheZahl: the nick looked familiar, wasn't sure
eulerscheZahl: but even regular users can be blind
Astrobytes: And yeah, there's been one or two blind users made posts re. that in the forum I believe
tomatoes: ocean of code colors was a bit hard 👀
Astrobytes: AggYzz, seriously, go back to clashing
eulerscheZahl: you win, then i'll go
eulerscheZahl: good night
Astrobytes: lol, night eulerscheZahl
Astrobytes: tomatoes, you colourblind?
Astrobytes: But you found OOC colours hard?
Astrobytes: AggYzz please do something a little more productive with your time, it will benefit us all
tomatoes: sometimes. red + orange + mixed + 2 small mines
Astrobytes: Interesting, I don't get any issue with that and I *am* colourblind :D
tomatoes: rarely, but got some "wtf?? ah, thats opponent mine"
tomatoes: even they're in the different corners
Astrobytes: Actually, now I come to think about it yes, it was a little tricky sometimes
Astrobytes: Partially yes, what's up?
Astrobytes: Not in the habit of mocking unless justified. Yes you do
AntiSquid: you talk as if you invented procrastination Memo12334, why do you think we are in chat?
jacek: Caturday soon
Uljahn: almost there
AntiSquid: celebrating caturdays eve?
Astrobytes: miaowwwwlmost there
Uljahn: synchronous celebration for different time zones is hard
MSmits: it is a conundrum
**Astrobytes puts on Mad Knight hat: we can celebrate my birthday instead
MSmits: Uljahm can't join then :(
MSmits: Uljahn that is
MSmits: cuz it's not your birthday for him
Astrobytes: Donno his location, it's 2357 some places in RU
jacek: different calendar, like octover revolution in september
jacek: or november*
MSmits: ohh i forgot that we're basically on Poland time
Astrobytes: (2357 as in clock time not year btw)
MSmits: timezones are really werd for my country
Astrobytes: ah timezones in general
Astrobytes: It's always 1700 somewhere
MSmits: how is that?
MSmits: isn't 1/60th of the time 1700 somewhere?
Astrobytes: 'IT's Five O' Clock Somewhere' - it's a song
Astrobytes: and a saying
Astrobytes: Why bars have happy hour starting at 5pm usually too
MSmits: ahh ok
MSmits: I never really went to bars
MSmits: yay my sim works
Astrobytes: I've frequented a few pubs in my time, mostly for the food and after drinks
MSmits: 23 moves for 1st turn on breakthrough, seems right
Astrobytes: Breakthrough right?
MSmits: sry, i counted the root node
Astrobytes: More like it
MSmits: I went with the reversed boardstate
MSmits: so i reverse the opponent board when generating moves
MSmits: otherwise both players start with their 20 lowest bits set
MSmits: 16 again
MSmits: i think i need to sleep
MSmits: 10x10 breakthrough is a thing though :P
MSmits: it's nice to do the board this way in case i need to do lookups with pdep and such
MSmits: pext actually
MSmits: it's only one reverse per move generation, so it's probably negligible
MSmits: time to try and get a random move bot going
MSmits: when i got that, I'll sleep
jacek: can people live thay long without sleep?
jacek: why pext/pdep for breakthrough o.O
Astrobytes: his board works in mysterious ways
MSmits: racing lookups
MSmits: you can check if a move sends you to a racing condition when it enters the opponent side
MSmits: meaning you solved the game 6 plies sooner
MSmits: or 7
MSmits: not usre
MSmits: you lookup a triangular field of opponent pawns to see if you can race through them
MSmits: without being stopped
FLQ4: astrobytes pfp is a cat
FLQ4: i thought it was an alien
Astrobytes: I thought you meant a different sort of race condition MSmits lol
Astrobytes: Well it acts like one sometimes FLQ4
MSmits: nah thats how it's called in literature i think
MSmits: because your pawn is unstoppable, you know you win in 3 plays
jacek: multithreading literature?
MSmits: lemme find something
jacek: you mean the job schedule solving thing?
Astrobytes: I meant race condition in the traditional sense, not in the Breakthrough sense
MSmits: it's in the title
Astrobytes: MSmits: It's five o'clock somewhere
jacek: race patterns
MSmits: allright race patterns
MSmits: but it;s still a condition
MSmits: in which you can race
MSmits: so :P
jacek: racecar reversed is racecar
MSmits: and what if you reverse it again?
Astrobytes: thank you for your palindromic interlude jacek
Astrobytes: or even interjection
Astrobytes: meh, beer taking effect
MSmits: in Dutch
Astrobytes: Fine, "bier"
MSmits: this coordinate system is annoying
MSmits: I need to do string stuff to tell the game where to move :rage:
Astrobytes: Oh come on it's trivial to convert
jacek: itsnt the same with othello?
MSmits: oh, good point
MSmits: no wait
MSmits: its not
MSmits: othello has no from -> to
Astrobytes: Still trivial though
MSmits: it's actually quite a few steps
MSmits: i don't store the moves
MSmits: so i need to figure out the difference between the child node and the root node to know what the move was
MSmits: then reverse it if it is the 2nd player
MSmits: do a builtin_ctzl to get the index
MSmits: and then the string stuff
MSmits: all of this for both from and to coord
Astrobytes: Maybe just store the move
Astrobytes: Not exactly big
MSmits: why store it on so many nodes when you only need it at the top
MSmits: it's an extra instruction or two times 100k+
Astrobytes: Stop moaning and do it then :P
MSmits: i am just lazy, i always do it this way, but I want to still complain :P
Astrobytes: hell yes, it's the least I deserve
MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/480830977 it works!!!!
MSmits: random moves ofc
Astrobytes: oh you're streaming JBM, totally forgot :/
Astrobytes: going off soon but I'll pop in
Astrobytes: gg MSmits
MSmits: yeah... happy... I know it'll crash and burn when I switch players probably :P
MSmits: it never works for p2 the first time it works for p1
DomiKo: gj MSmits :wink:
MSmits: thanks DomiKo
MSmits: yep bugged as p2 :P
jacek: enough to release at friday night
MSmits: I'll fix it :)
MSmits: humiliating :P
MSmits: but it works at least
MSmits: submitted, see if i get crashes
MSmits: nope, it's working. Beating some bots with random moves lol
MSmits: I think this is the first time I made a bot for a boardgame with no draws
MSmits: that's different
MSmits: 125/163, so that's 38 players equal or worse than random
Astrobytes: It works. Now sleep :P
MSmits: yea yeah
MSmits: going.. Gn all!
Astrobytes: gn MSmits
Astrobytes: I'm out too, gn all
coderinblack: clash of code anyone?
coderinblack: im going to start then
Laminator: did you not test your code lol
Laminator: coderinblack had something closee to working. but submited with like 6 minutes left to go for 0%
RJMontalvo: I'll admit, these puzzles make me feel dumb half the time.
Gorbit99: but then you can feel so much better when you do them finally
RJMontalvo: it doesn't make sense until it does.
Gorbit99: which puzzle?
RJMontalvo: hehehe one of the "easy" ones. I'm only a week into lessons in c#
RJMontalvo: I'll get it eventually :)
Denshire: I think it might be in the settings in the editor
Gorbit99: best you can do is turn off "accept suggestions on Enter key" afaik
Denshire: Yeah, that's what I was talking about
Denshire: I don't think there's a way to make it go away completely
Gorbit99: also, there's a sort of CSS trick I heard
Denshire: I'm honestly not that experienced so I wouldn't know that much
Gorbit99: it's annoying as hell in CoC
Denshire: yeah especially in fastest
Putnam3145: what... suggestions are there
Putnam3145: i haven't noticed any?
Denshire: the box that pops up that gives you options on how to finish a word
Gorbit99: well, intellisense basically
Gorbit99: if you spend enough time to get language support activated that is
Putnam3145: somehow i completely tuned that out
Gorbit99: it's hard to tune it out, when it takes control of your arrow keys 😂
Denshire: me trying to go to the next line for hours before realizing i've just been scrolling through the suggestions: "oh"
Gorbit99: that's why vim would be a great thing to have, but doesn't work for me
Denshire: it would be more comfortable for those who know vim, for sure
Denshire: as someone who doesn't, i don't think i would care
Gorbit99: well, I know vim, I'm just facing bugs with it