Insufficient: im sure there are, but it was a nice feeling to be able to do it with DP
Stilgart: as far as i can remember, the solution can be though as a special case of DP
Stilgart: but I hardly call it a DP
Stilgart: Insufficient: almost anyt
Insufficient: and yeah sorry i forgot there is language barrier between solvers
Stilgart: anything can be done with DP
Stilgart: JBM: the (expected) solution
Insufficient: yeah its more just i want to get better at DP so it was nice to be able to do it right, even if in this instance there were simpler solutions
Insufficient: ooh i see roller coaster has it as a tag, nice thanks
Insufficient: also i take the tags as loose guidelines, sometimes its good to be original and just try stuff you think might work
Zenoscave: you can't
jrke: After quest there are quick arrival of new contributions
jrke: no one in the chat?
Bob: well there's still Automaton2000 at least
Automaton2000: copy and paste it in chat
Bob: right Automaton2000
Automaton2000: well you could be the issue
Bob: aggressive this early in the morning Automaton2000?
Automaton2000: but is it the other way is to do it when i have time
Bob: no more coffee for you
jrke: Where can i find pm for csb
Bob: here's Magus's http://files.magusgeek.com/csb/csb_en.html
jrke: yeah i read that except magus is there any?
Bob: you can probably have a look at his pm for FB, since the physics are more or less similar and he published the actual game engine and GA engine
Bob: and I guess there must be a thread about if in the forum
jrke: Ah! Thanks./
jrke: you are 328 in csb right
Bob: probably something like that
Bob: but I was in the top tier when they introduced the leagues, I'm not sure my code would make it to legend today
jrke: You are in legend 328 in legend right
jrke: curently im 119 in legend aiming top 100.
jrke: why after having 38 upvotes "ATARI GO" is not approved by anyone
Bob: n oidea
Bob: possibly because few people took the time to develop an AI on it to actually test it thoroughly
AntiSquid: DevilSnare what's that about? @_@
AntiSquid: which puzzle are you doing?
AntiSquid: i didnt test atari go and dont like the rules that much
VYCanisMajoris: this article seems to be bugged
VYCanisMajoris: the end is not displayed
Allis: *Finally* 5th in Clash. I think I can leave now. :sweat_smile:
Allis: Thank you all for being lovely.
Zenoscave: VYCanisMajoris I have the same issue
Zenoscave: Can a Classic Puzzle Descript contain links or images or any markdown?
[CG]Thibaud: this is a known bug on the blog unfortunately :(
Zenoscave: Seems to be a js memory issue, no?
Astrobytes: The blog has been mostly inaccessible for me recently
eulerscheZahl: Zenoscave 01:48PM Can a Classic Puzzle Descript contain links or images or any markdown?
Zenoscave: Hi eulerscheZahl
Zenoscave: I figured that out too
Zenoscave: that's a program I just wrote. it's a python quine
Zenoscave: JBM have you seen Mame's uroburo?
Astrobytes: I just posted that last night for someone, incidentally
Zenoscave: It's my favorite
Zenoscave: It really is a worthwhile favorite
Scarfield: why, does it have any use? other than being an interesting idea
Zenoscave: It possibly could be used in obfuscating code
Zenoscave: Ah JBM beat me to it
Zenoscave: _.rb is cool too
Zenoscave: I'm not familiar with that one by name
Scarfield: cool, well i guess everything has a use, its just a matter of figuring out where
Zenoscave: Galois would agree
Zenoscave: but be pissed to agree
Zenoscave: is that the original unix compiler compiler backdoor?
Zenoscave: I never knew there was a paper
Zenoscave: I changed the digital output for Plouffe Pi, and made in ready for approval btw
Zenoscave: I think the difficulty should be hard, even with the wiki link. You gotta know some intrinsics in your language to get floating point modular arithmetic
Zenoscave: I checked a few different normal suspects for solvability
Zenoscave: I wrote it and my first 3 attempted solutions were awful
Zenoscave: Yeah will do.
Zenoscave: I removed what spaceI could without sacrificing readability
Zenoscave: is that better?
Zenoscave: It doesn't overflow, and I put a text link in the description to the original wiki page
Zenoscave: should be enough
baniksaurabh: Hello World
Zenoscave: AmarjitSingh ad99526 this is the general chat. not just your clash , FYI :)
AntiSquid: ya, don't wash your dirty laundry in public space
Zenoscave: Nice Schwase
[CG]Thibaud: it's Bob 's puzzle isn't it
[CG]Thibaud: I'm confusing with another one my bad
SPDene: JBM you can "golf" that by removing the two "not"s: "we don't want no stinking python trix" -> "we do want stinking python trix" :)
Zenoscave: SPDene I like your golfing ways
Zenoscave: JBM maybe that's a different aproach. Perhaps a better one ;)
Zenoscave: 16^(n-k)mod(8*k-1) but you need remainder
Zenoscave: rounding on the remaining places is needed
Zenoscave: eulerscheZahl I love that show
eulerscheZahl: it has way too few episodes
Zenoscave: JBM n-k is not always > 0. Right?
Zenoscave: Should I switch some?
DomiKo: ehhh 2 days for mars lander
DomiKo: time for 200 chars
eulerscheZahl: you'll have to do move golfing after that to complete the track
DomiKo: move golfing?
Astrobytes: Think he meant "more" ;)
DomiKo: i hope i can do it
DomiKo: then i guess i will go back to MarLander Optimalization
Astrobytes: I spent a lot of time golfing on Sunday. Until my head was hurting.
dbdr: DomiKo: move golfing = save your fuel in optim mode, I think :)
eulerscheZahl: i was golfing today as well
eulerscheZahl: down from 650kB to 350kB approximately
dbdr: a 100K character golf submission would be a nice troll :D
Allis: I was thinking how great it would be if CG supported the Whitespace language and accidentally only counted printing characters for golf. XD
jrke: Anybody finished all paths yet?
eulerscheZahl: but unlike you I only gained 1 level in that process
jrke: You gained 1 cause your level is high i gained 4 level and last quest is remaining
jrke: i.e. last 600xp
dbdr: Allis: CG used to ignore whitespace
dbdr: people found ways to abuse that
dbdr: was before my time, but saw it mentioned in the forum somewhere
jrke: is there any pm for csb except magus one?
eulerscheZahl: did you open the overview page of CSB @jrke?
jrke: Overview page?
eulerscheZahl: LEARN ALGORITHMS ASSOCIATED WITH THIS PUZZLE
eulerscheZahl: and external resources
dbdr: there's still a need to write the converter in non-whitespace
eulerscheZahl: the link collection even got an update to account for later improvements
dbdr: was that really profitable?
dbdr: not sure I get it. the question is the size of the "ws interpreter"
dbdr: "later" :)
dbdr: yeah :)
Allis: @dbdr Why's "ws interpreter" in quotes there?
Allis: I guess probably you meant that you wouldn't necessarily have to interpret Whitespace; you could translate it to something else.
Allis: Anyway, best esolang, bar none. :sweat_smile:
DomiKo: i can even read data
DomiKo: in golf :(
DomiKo: and anothing else...
dbdr: yes, does not have to be ws
dbdr: wslang :D
eulerscheZahl: you can share a replay using the 3 dots below the viewer. by default they are private
aCat: New optim game from me ;-)
aCat: NRPA variants should be the best, but we will see ^^
jacek: is this nested monte carlo thing?
jacek: Oups An error occurred (#510): "An error has occurred during compilation/execution.".
Scarfield: ^ happens 50%ish for me 2 with default code in c++ as well
aCat: it worked before making public
aCat: gimme a sec
Astrobytes: Hey this is a conspiracy, you got Radek to approve it already! :P
Scarfield: i want to be paid as well!
aCat: he was not paid ;p
aCat: OK, works for me now
aCat: please check
DomiKo: for me it work
aCat: nice, thanks ;-)
Scarfield: seems good, no errors for 12 tests
Astrobytes: yep, seems OK so far
DomiKo: 20 tests OK
aCat: strange thing, i reupload the same build
Astrobytes: Just a CG thing I guess. The code moves in mysterious ways ;)
aCat: jacek its similar to nested monte carlo, but best approaches learn move policy along the way
Astrobytes: Have you got a paper on that? Never heard of it
aCat: tristan cazenave got quite a few publications with this game as a testbed
aCat: me - not
DomiKo: i guess
aCat: this is upload for lecture exercise
aCat: yeah, this one and a few more
Astrobytes: cool, thanks DomiKo
aCat: At least I'm not spoiling you officially :D
Astrobytes: Good work btw aCat
aCat: I'm just starting
aCat: got list of >30 puzzles/optims in mind
Astrobytes: Oh great to hear!
aCat: probably <10 for this lecture I'm preparing
aCat: took quite a while to remember myself how to work with CG SDK
aCat: no it should be faster
aCat: (I hope)
eulerscheZahl: the fun begins if you want to do something in JS directly rather than using the SDK
eulerscheZahl: or combine these two
aCat: I probably don't want to touch JS, I have no idea how it works ;]
eulerscheZahl: took me 2 days to figure it out
eulerscheZahl: still not working with groups
eulerscheZahl: aCat the rules say The score of an action removing a region of size n is (n-2)2.
eulerscheZahl: but the website gives n points
eulerscheZahl: wait, i'm stupid
eulerscheZahl: the block with size 4 gives the same score with both metrics, ignore me
eulerscheZahl: hm, i got a negative score of -283 :/
Scarfield: on the website, or in the CG puzzle? :p
dbdr: sum of squares equal to -283?
eulerscheZahl: i guess -1000 for not clearing the board
eulerscheZahl: while CG gives +1000 for doing so
dbdr: positive thinking "+1"
dbdr: -271 with random clicking
DomiKo: -1425 hmmm
dbdr: you win
Scarfield: this will end up like with people trying to get the lowest possible score on 2048
aCat: yes the score for the endgame on the site is different
eulerscheZahl: -49 now...
eulerscheZahl: not sure what that means
aCat: but I keep it constistent with the papers
dbdr: what's your thoughts on offline solving?
aCat: probably its a penalty for the tiles that are left
eulerscheZahl: did you also try some algos from papers?
aCat: in general to learn for this game - or you want to just hardcode strategies for these testcases :>/
eulerscheZahl: and of course offline solving will be a thing if players try hard
aCat: sorry not yet - I just got the Flat monte carlo
aCat: I will do this
aCat: but it's not as a priority
aCat: first other games / prepare slides ;p
eulerscheZahl: i'll wait till tomorrow evening: topcoder marathon and then decided what to play
aCat: wanna spoliers on what will be ext :>?
eulerscheZahl: ~ ls /ext ls: cannot access '/ext': No such file or directory
eulerscheZahl: yeah, tell us or ask CG for an optim contest
aCat: next puzzle ;-)
eulerscheZahl: depending on how original / how much literature
aCat: these are not contributions for a real contests
aCat: I will definitely try some day
dbdr: jps - Java Virtual Machine Process Status Tool :)
aCat: pathfinding ;p
eulerscheZahl: Jump point search?
Astrobytes: jump point search
Astrobytes: damn you toad
dbdr: but my best was on Jyväskylän Seudun Palloseura
aCat: aaaad - eouler got a kiss
aCat: maybe he will finally be a princess ;]
eulerscheZahl: and your students get grades on it or at least bonus points?
aCat: no this was extremally stupid approach to labs
aCat: i plan to change it dyrastically
aCat: implement some of the proposed methods, do some parameter testing, show some plots what works best
eulerscheZahl: beat dbdr
aCat: some bonus for good results yes - but not the entire task based on that
aCat: I was stupid beck in the days
aCat: (I still am but at least slightly less I hope)
dbdr: damn, then I can't pass aCat's test
aCat: especially for you dbdr
aCat: greater equal dbdr score
dbdr: easy :D
eulerscheZahl: Astrobytes still looking for stupid chats? https://prnt.sc/tq13gn
dbdr: why is there a loop aCat?
Astrobytes: I've still got my c*** screenshot
Scarfield: dont tease people who type-stutters, thats just mean
aCat: you mean not just read the line?
dbdr: # game loop while True:
dbdr: but only one iteration is needed, no?
aCat: oh damn
aCat: stupid cat :D
aCat: thanks fopr pointing that out
Astrobytes: bahaha quality content from Automaton there
dbdr: not a big deal but confusing
dbdr: actually, would it make sense to allow printing the actiona 1 by 1?
Astrobytes: aCat has a thing about semicolon-separated commands :P
dbdr: but the timeout would be different...
dbdr: would be more beginner friendly I think
dbdr: for a greedy algo for instance
Scarfield: yea no need for game mechanics, just find current largest area
eulerscheZahl: only downside: how to handle the timelimit with multiple turns?
aCat: yep - that's the case
aCat: timelimits will be awful then
dbdr: who care,s, do the search offline ;)
aCat: In every case not what I intended
dbdr: is there any way to cleanly avoid it?
eulerscheZahl: you can't upload an optim game and expect everyone to solve it online :(
eulerscheZahl: the bulls and cows has random validators. but i wouldn't call that "clean"
dbdr: randomized validators are more problematic
Scarfield: for someone who wants to search, the mechanics will have to be implemented anyway. So maybe a 1st turn time limit of 20s, for the remaining turns 20s/150
eulerscheZahl: the total time is 30s max
eulerscheZahl: 20s + 50ms * 200 frames
dbdr: there was one idea: make it a multi
dbdr: with randomized testcases
eulerscheZahl: it just feels miscategorized then
aCat: dbdr i fixed the gameloop
eulerscheZahl: it's you vs the puzzle, no bot interaction
dbdr: no interaction, but competition
eulerscheZahl: i got the point
eulerscheZahl: i just don't want to see an optim puzzle in the multiplayer section
Allis: I just blind-submitted. Felt so good.
Scarfield: remember to protect yourself
dbdr: the line is blurry
dbdr: STC is almost an optim, no?
aCat: yah you got STC for this
eulerscheZahl: my bot misses the interaction part mostly. but i think i could gain a few points if i would handle it
eulerscheZahl: at least i build a high tower in the center to make digging easier
dbdr: submit is pretty long
dbdr: even though I do no search
AntiSquid: duck hunt without the graphics :(
MSmits: isn't just a sad dude shooting at a broken tv?
hphadi: anti squid
hphadi: im why
hphadi: yStay in my presence
hphadi: He brought me back to the world
Scarfield: depends on the data, what puzzle?
Scarfield: there are many ways to do it, an array of objects, 2D array for each kind of site and so on, i dont think there is any need to use pandas for it
Zenoscave: Anyone have a goog scanline Floodfill?
FreezeFlare: Can anybody tell me how to make my own code?
AlmostM: If so, check out something like https://www.jetbrains.com/help/pycharm/creating-and-running-your-first-python-project.html#prerequisites
AntiSquid: better use anaconda / jupyter @_@
AntiSquid: pycharm costs money, it looks nice but ...
DomiKo: pychars isn't free?
Zenoscave: AntiSquid Hi
Zenoscave: DomiKo it is free to users with a edu email
Zenoscave: At least the full version is
aCat: DomiKo i'm pretty sure our uwr mail sgould give you free pycharm
Zenoscave: Hi aCat long time
Zenoscave: I saw something about IEEE 2020 competetion
aCat: hi Zeno - seen my optim puzzle?
Zenoscave: when did it start?
Zenoscave: I have not
DomiKo: yes. that's why I thought it's free
Zenoscave: Looking now
aCat: CEC already ended Coac won again but some progress had been made
Zenoscave: I like it!
aCat: for COG deadline in a few days if you want to send something :-)
aCat: I like that you like it
aCat: Conference on Games
aCat: former conference on coimputational intelligence and games
Zenoscave: Will do! Might try and do some convex pareto optim
aCat: for SameGame what publication-wise works best are some nested variants of MC, rollout policy adaptations etc
Zenoscave: no for COG
aCat: I know you answered for cog
aCat: I really like to hearthat
Astrobytes: CEC was LoCaM again aCat? Did Coac try something different?
aCat: just upgrades his weights or something
Astrobytes: An eval tweak! Meh, hardly groundbreaking :D
Zenoscave: When is deadline? Aug 1st?
AntiSquid: hi Zenoscave
AntiSquid: 2020 has been so weird
AntiSquid: how are the conferences held aCat ? do you go in person to CEC / COG ?
AntiSquid: i saw some contests that normally rewarded travel grants now struggling to find ideas for other prizes :D
AntiSquid: (aicrowd contests)
AntiSquid: aCat ? Automaton2000 ping aCat
Automaton2000: you put a space in the end
Zenoscave: does coac play on CG as well?
Astrobytes: Yeah, think he was top 20 or something in LoCaM
AntiSquid: thought game of go was a multi, ugh nvm then :(
Astrobytes: No, Atari Go was the only Go multi so far
AntiSquid: we have that on CG? didn't see it
Zenoscave: not approved yet I believe
Astrobytes: Didn't get approved in time
Astrobytes: jacek has a bot, not sure why he didn't approve or reject, trictrac too
aCat: AntiSquid no its damn online
aCat: waste conferences
aCat: for me its pointless, I benefit from them only by talking to people and listening talks
AntiSquid: i joined some meetups online, but honestly it's not the same as meeting people in person
Astrobytes: Yeah, can imagine. Might as well be a podcast.
AntiSquid: the upside is that i can join meetups everywhere in the world now because people host online :D
aCat: more hours in front of the screen yeah that is what i love
aCat: yeah, but CEC was a mess for me - I din't attend anything and if I wanted it wasnt working
aCat: cause they didnt give you all vides to watch but pretend this is a conference for real and made proper timeslots etc
aCat: my (and radek's) opinin - awful
Astrobytes: Seems a bit silly
AntiSquid: "if we imagine hard enough it will be a real conference"
Astrobytes: Cancellation and just sharing info would have been easier and more cost-effective for all I would imagine
inoryy: aCat have you "participated" in ICLR, ICML, etc?
inoryy: seemed fine
aCat: last weeks: watching AI and Games channel, making this damn CG puzzle, making lecture plan
aCat: and pretending to write publication on a strict deadline:P
inoryy: oh, love that channel!
aCat: not watching any true conferences :/
inoryy: what about EEML? it was "virtually" in poland :)
Astrobytes: AI and Games, the Scottish guy?
aCat: I'm not much in true machine learning inoryy
Astrobytes: Yeah I like that channel, being a fellow Scot and all that :P
aCat: rather search and stuff
Astrobytes: Anyway, catch you guys later, take care and gn
aCat: ok folks need to go to sleep finally
aCat: yep, you too
AntiSquid: i thought cats are nocturnal
TheSpiffiest: So I'm going to create a contribution... can you guys suggest what kind of challenge it should be? Puzzle vs Code Clash?
TheSpiffiest: I think it's simple, but then I know how it works.
SPDene: how long will it take to solve?
TheSpiffiest: Given a random number generator that makes a number between 0 and 1, calculate pi
TheSpiffiest: Took me about 10 minutes, but I don't know if that's because I like math or not
TheSpiffiest: I'm thinking code clash
AntiSquid: make an asteroid shooter multi
AntiSquid: and you get item drops from the rocks that give you upgrades
TheSpiffiest: The concept is simple - you generate a crap ton of random numbers, then figure out if the distance is less than 1, then compare the numbers inside vs outside
TheSpiffiest: I think Optimal Tower Defense I would be more fun
TheSpiffiest: I want to start with something simple. Does that seem like a 15 minute problem ?
SPDene: if a clash takes more than 5 minutes for someone familiar with the topic, that would suggest puzzle to me... but counting the ratio of <= 1 | > 1 results doesn't sounds like it would take more than 5 mins to code IMO
TheSpiffiest: the hardest part was figuring out I had to do the whole + and - not just 0 to 1, but -1,-1 to 1,1
TheSpiffiest: after that yeah, it just typing it on
TheSpiffiest: I'll try code clash and see what happens
TheSpiffiest: but how would you know it worked and they didn't just return "math.pi"
SPDene: yeah - that's a problem
TheSpiffiest: it's an interesting challenge, but the coding isn't the challenge I guess... it's thinking of the solution.
SPDene: I was about to ask: what are you expecting to use to generate random numbers? do all languages have a random function, or is it going to be impossible for people coding in (say) Bash ?
TheSpiffiest: ah, interesting. Bash has $RANDOM or /dev/random
TheSpiffiest: but the later would require file input
TheSpiffiest: and that's 0 to 32767, not 0 to 1 so you would have to code a function to adjust it, or offset your unit circle
TheSpiffiest: I assume languages have random, but don't know
SPDene: yeah, I think you need to provide a list of random numbers, then (using those) calculate an inexact value of pi... so the "right" answer (using those randoms) is 3.14158, not 3.14159
TheSpiffiest: Ah, that could work... then the input values really didn't matter. The more numbers you get the more detail you could calculate.
TheSpiffiest: Even bash could do it
TheSpiffiest: It would be nightmare in reverse mode
SPDene: and that could be a nice demo of how many points you need to get 3 places of precision / 4 places / 5 places ...
TheSpiffiest: Neato... I could do the same for Newtons Method
TheSpiffiest: force people to learn math
TheSpiffiest: Coolness. Thank you. Doing all these coding interviews and my head is full of algorithms and stuff.
0sssama: ez pz