DeWill: anything_ok
jrke: is there any description for bosses of langton's ant
KiwiTae: Thor puzzle is so hard been trying for a week now :(
KiwiTae: braaah
Joe_no_name: KiwiTae do you have a question that I could maybe help out with?
NuclearGiant_7d5: Has anyone here completed https://www.codingame.com/ide/puzzle/skynet-revolution-episode-2 ? Looking for a clue on the Agent behavior for the Core network.
[CG]Thibaud: NuclearGiant_7d5 this article may help: https://www.codingame.com/blog/dfs-agent-skynet/
NuclearGiant_7d5: Thanks. Checking it out.
Andriamanitra: fun times with reverse problem, found an alternative pattern that works 100% with visible test cases and only got 20% :^)
Marcollose: Is there any Dzurlord?
KiwiTae: Joe_no_name I tell thor to go to the coodinate where the lamp is in the test, but then the validation test i dont know where the light is , so I cannot... Maybe hardcoding is not great ah >,<
Joe_no_name: How are you telling thor to get there?
KiwiTae: Joe_no_name sorry I was just messing with you :raising_hand_tone1: Thanks though :D
KiwiTae: Joe_no_name are you working on a puzzle now?
Joe_no_name: OH MAN! 😂🤣 you got me good! Last time I ever try to help anybody on here. Yeah im about to finish the power of thor ep 1
KiwiTae: pewpewpew
Joe_no_name: Shots fired
pk359: hi
[CG]Thibaud: hey pk359
pk359: yes?
[CG]Thibaud: simply saying hello :D
KiwiTae: o/
dt200020: hi
whay: hi
AdvaitJ: hi
Guiguim: Hello
s3698211: Hello guys, have a great night
Tiramon: Andriamanitra are you talking about the optimization -> Reverse Engineering?
It's not hard to pass the testcases, as long as your output is valid
Tiramon: the problem is to keep the score high ;)
Guiguim: whay why do you always give up ?
macobo: whay oh whay
remi6: Hello
shangcode: Hi
Speedlulu: Hi, was the shortest code mode deleted from Clash of Code ?
Oceanman: nope
Speedlulu: thank you
Oceanman: same room tho
Oceanman: lol
Speedlulu: there really should be a way to chose which game mode you want to play
Speedlulu: hey yeah
Oceanman: yeah
Oceanman: reverse mode is fun
jacek: in private clash you can
macobo: reverse mode is super annoying :D
macobo: at least for a tryhard like me
shangcode: I feel reverse mode is so cool, sounds like hacker's reverse engineering.:tophat:
remi6: What about puzzles about physics and mathematics, macobo?
macobo: Those Clash of code puzzles are generally not hard at all. :) I just find reverse mode really luck based.
pvchopade204: yepp
DarkyParky: i think golf (shortest mode) is annoying for many languages
Oceanman: shortest mode is like a punishment to c++ users
macobo: At least it's predictable. The puzzles are easy (and short) as well, so using ruby isn't that hard there. :) But agreed, there's a learning curve.
jistjoalal: why ppl with there actual human face in their profile pic always get smoked in clash of code?
jistjoalal: and you know youre bout to get smoked when you see some weeb looking pic
Uljahn: :smirk:
macobo: A lot of the common faces are official bots apparently :)
pvchopade204: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/130451819a4b7a79d671ef3e5c484d298d9dd46
pvchopade204: join fast
pvchopade204: 1 min 40 sec remail
pvchopade204: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/1304533a86207cb507d0418ab639fc0e2dbc912
pvchopade204: join fast for second private challanmge
pvchopade204: join quick
pvchopade204: ...
Astrobytes: pvchopade204, please don't keep spamming clash invites in chat, just asking if anyone wants t o join is fine
Uljahn: private clashes in Java :rolling_eyes:
macobo: I wonder if CoC is trying to say I have an addiction.
macobo: First it was reCAPTCHA every time, now it requires me to do the picture matching every time as well :)
itzblinkzy: f
_Akira_: good morning everybody
_Akira_: :smiley:
Logiman09: Hello
itzblinkzy: hi guys
whay: hi
AntiSquid: hi
whay: how are you
itzblinkzy: good
whay: you are irlanda
whay: you have compueter windows 10
AntiSquid: wrong, it's ubuntu 20
eulerscheZahl: i think i should update. installed ubuntu 19.10 when i reinstalled my system. support expired now i think
eulerscheZahl: do i dare a system upgrade? last time i tried (from 14 to 16 i think) it didn't work as expected and i ended up reinstalling it
AntiSquid: really? isn't 18 still supported?
whay: you have windows 7
eulerscheZahl: there is the LTS version (long term support) with 5 years
eulerscheZahl: but the one i installed has 9 months
eulerscheZahl: i think i'll risk it, yolo
Astrobytes: good luck!
eulerscheZahl: The following packages will be upgraded: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/ff0d85f6-f834-4b57-8686-558e6fc367b1
eulerscheZahl: doesn't sound that complicated after all
eulerscheZahl: oh, it's done already :D
Astrobytes: lol, smallest upgrade ever
eulerscheZahl: maybe i updated before without noticing
eulerscheZahl: code = VS code
Counterbalance: is it also apt-get dist-upgrade on ubuntu?
whay: you can play with me world of tank blitz
eulerscheZahl: i did
sudo apt dist-upgrade
eulerscheZahl: there is apt now. less typing than apt-get
eulerscheZahl: and slightly different ASCII art
eulerscheZahl: i don't know about the internals
whay: iam telle:angry:
AntiSquid: are you in oxford atm whay ?
whay: yeah
AntiSquid: what are you studying?
eulerscheZahl: let's meet up
eulerscheZahl: start cooking AntiSquid, whay will be at your place soon
AntiSquid: i did pizza and it's all gone now
whay: programming
el19oc: what kinda pizza?
eulerscheZahl: pineapple
Astrobytes: Eugh.
AntiSquid: mushrooms, salami, cheese + (tomato and base)
Astrobytes: I love mushrooms on pizzas
AntiSquid: i think the beetroot pizza is worse than the pineapple one
eulerscheZahl: for me it's eggplant + zucchini on the pizza
AntiSquid: butternut squash and goats cheese works alright imo
Astrobytes: beetroot? Weird.
eulerscheZahl: but mushrooms are fine as well
Astrobytes: Yeah, nice euler
Astrobytes: I'm a huge fan of both
AntiSquid: ya it's some vegan pizza (the beetroot one)
whay: I want someone to talk to me:worried:
whay: ن
AntiSquid: i made my own from scratch though
Astrobytes: Best way
Astrobytes: And you can actually get it crispy (or however you like it)
el19oc: I let the pizza professionals handle it
el19oc: everything I cook turns to ash
whay: :sob:
whay: you can telle me
Astrobytes: haha, cooking ain't for everyone I guess :D
AntiSquid: use an oven timer
eulerscheZahl: when you can read, you can cook
from the Ratatouille movie, paraphrasing as i don't remember the exact wording
eulerscheZahl: but i don't agree with it. i can read
whay: :star_and_crescent: iam islamic
Astrobytes: whay, can you please stop your nonsense. You've been at it for at least a week now.
jjhiggz: Where do we go to report an error
Astrobytes: jjhiggz start in here
Astrobytes: What's the issue?
eulerscheZahl: 50% chance we tell you it's not an error
jjhiggz: I just did a challenge in dart, and when I changed my answer I was getting all of the correct outputs, but then the test results defaulted to 'expected nothing'
jjhiggz: should I post my code?
whay: What nonsense you do not want to speak with
eulerscheZahl: and the problem statement
jjhiggz: I'm not sure that I still have access to the problem statement it was a clash of code
jjhiggz: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/b346884d-6252-4b2f-ab77-10eb6781d759
eulerscheZahl: somehow the command line update did nothing it seems. updating via GUI now...
eulerscheZahl: do you remember parts of the wording?
eulerscheZahl: of the statement
jjhiggz: yeah the goal was to take two arrays
eulerscheZahl: http://eulerschezahl.herokuapp.com/codingame/puzzles/
eulerscheZahl: search it here
jjhiggz: one containing x coordiantes
el19oc: ah yes the ratatouille movie, a timeless classic
el19oc: that's where I get all my inspiration from
whay: I LOVE AXIS
jjhiggz: its "crazy coordinates"
whay: AXIS AXIS
whay: NAZIS :flag_dz:
AntiSquid: whay that's random spam and annoying
eulerscheZahl: you print an extra , at the end jjhiggz
jjhiggz: I had it outputting
(1, 1),(5, 2),(9, 5)
instead of
1, 1), (5, 2), (9, 5)
AntiSquid: try to discuss topics closer to CG whay
eulerscheZahl: the error messages isn't optimal in this case. we are complaining about it for years :D
whay: I want to bother you because you do not talk to me, you consider me an offense
AntiSquid: an offense to what
AntiSquid: what puzzle are you doing whay?
eulerscheZahl: you ignore the current chat topic and start spamming :flag_dz: and such
Astrobytes: For at least a week now
jjhiggz: its not that with the extra comma, substring in dart is like slice in most languages so I'm cutting out the last character with it
Astrobytes: Surely boredom must set in after a while
whay: I HATE ALL
AntiSquid: i mean i directly addressed you like 5 times in the past 30 minutes, that's a privilege not an offense, whay :p
AntiSquid: ok this is trolling
AntiSquid: and really bad one
jjhiggz: Plus the problem was actually that all the tests starting expecting the value 'not found'
whay: YOU ARE BAD MAN
Astrobytes: Does it ignore the extra whitespace at the end as well jjhiggz? (I don't know Dart)
AntiSquid: whay stop the nonsense
eulerscheZahl: but are you BAN MAN?
whay: I LOVE AXIS
jjhiggz: Well thats what I'm saying is that, I don't think it was a dart thing. There were no console errors, but the EXPECTED values for the output all defaulted to "none" or something along those lines.
eulerscheZahl: it's a char by char comparison
eulerscheZahl: when the expected is "abc" and you print "abcd", it tells you that it expected nothing
Astrobytes: Yep. And that's the default error when the output isn't as expected (sadly)
eulerscheZahl: that is after the "abc" which is correct. just misleading error message
jjhiggz: Thats bizarre
jjhiggz: ok
eulerscheZahl: feel free to complain on the forum. it confuses a lot of users
jjhiggz: haha
eulerscheZahl: me included when I was new to CG
eulerscheZahl: now i know the quirks
jjhiggz: I'm going to Karen the S**t out of this until they fix it
jjhiggz: not really though I'm too lazy
eulerscheZahl: that's how we got D support
jjhiggz: and need to put all my \efforts into getting a job
eulerscheZahl: oh, good luck on that
eulerscheZahl: did you find CG via an application? CG hosts job assessments as well
inoryy: wait till you get to C++ pragmas
Astrobytes: :grimacing:
jjhiggz: no I found it through this youtube streamer based out of Denver.
jjhiggz: CJ with the codinggarden channel
eulerscheZahl: a clasher.
there's much more to discover on CG
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming
that's what makes CG special
el19oc: I was gonna ask
el19oc: what bot programming challenge do you guys recommend?
el19oc: other than csb and spring challenge
inoryy: CSB! Oh...
jjhiggz: I gotta do some of those, I appreciate the guidance amigo
eulerscheZahl: http://chadok.info/codingame/puzzles_list.html
scroll to the bottom, sort by community rating
eulerscheZahl: we are all biased in some way. but with lots of votes something reasonable may pop up
Astrobytes: And feel free to ask for advice/help here
jjhiggz: this website is pretty amazing I'm not going to lie.
Astrobytes: el19oc - really depends on what you like
jjhiggz: Its way more interactive than codewars
eulerscheZahl: it's even possible to upload your own multiplayer games on this website
jjhiggz: whattt?
el19oc: ayy, thanks
el19oc: that list's useful
jjhiggz: As in like through the clashCode format?
eulerscheZahl: takes a lot of effort to create one though
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/contribute/community
jjhiggz: or as in like you can full on design a whole game?
whay: HI AGAIN
whay: HAHAHA
jjhiggz: Oh wow thats pretty cool
Astrobytes: Whole game, puzzles, clashes, optimasation games, you can make all of those
jjhiggz: I see some chemistry ones
sanskriti: hii
jjhiggz: Do people actually get jobs through this website?
eulerscheZahl: yes, there is https://www.codingame.com/work/
jjhiggz: and in order to do it, do they have to be complete bawwses at coding?
whay: YOU ARE STUIPUD
eulerscheZahl: hiring companies send you a link to an online exam
el19oc: rude
Astrobytes: AntiSquid hammer required
eulerscheZahl: in the past CG also held sponsored contests where you could choose from a list of companies where you want to apply
jjhiggz: Oh wow, thats awesome.
sanskriti: busy people
jjhiggz: I need to be more active here, I feel like if I got in the swing of things I could easily crunch out five hours a day on this site and time would fly by
AntiSquid: lol i wasted time in private and he pretended to understand
inoryy: aside from the actual hiring channels the practice on the website will help; played a role for me at least
Astrobytes: It's not IAmNoob/python_programer is it? Also had the University of Oxford thing, and about the same level of English skills
eulerscheZahl: also something you can mention on your application. shows passion
inoryy: yeah
jjhiggz: Do employers look for specific languages on this site. It definitely seems like it would be easier to perform well on code clashes in other non-dart languages
jjhiggz: I noticed most of the people crushing it are c++ or python, and sometimes Javascript, but I've been doing dart challenges because I'm trying to learn flutter and I suck at statically typed languages
macobo: Programming languages are like socks :)
eulerscheZahl: i like that quote
Counterbalance: waiting for the punchline...
jjhiggz: So don't use old programming languages?
eulerscheZahl: you can change them
jjhiggz: lol
inoryy: you always lose one side
macobo: And if you don't, you'll smell :)
jjhiggz: Programming languages get crusty if you spend too much time alone?
Counterbalance: ieuw
jjhiggz: I revoke that, too far my apologies
AntiSquid: 3 programmers walked into a pub
eulerscheZahl: the first programmer said:
eulerscheZahl: Astrobytes your turn to continue
Astrobytes: "Is it my round?"
eulerscheZahl: to which the second programmer replied:
Astrobytes: ...
jjhiggz: "That depends, what pair of socks are you wearing"
Counterbalance: syntax error: unexpected string literal
eulerscheZahl: lame joke, you messed it up
AntiSquid: was intending to tell a joke with a missing punch line ...
inoryy: well glad we're on a programming site and not comedy club, you'd be out of jobs
Astrobytes: Show us how it's done then inoryy
AntiSquid: but sure let's say they were coding their poker bots and one of them was using D in release mode
eulerscheZahl: dist upgrade changed some icons :rage:
Astrobytes: 3 programmers walk into a pub, the first holds up 2 fingers and say "3 beers please"...
inoryy: Three logicians walk into a bar. The barman says, 'Does everybody want a drink?'
inoryy: first one says "I don't know"
inoryy: second one says "I don't know"
eulerscheZahl: last: no
inoryy: third one says Yes
inoryy: ha
eulerscheZahl: wait i'm stupid
Astrobytes: That's an old one inoryy :D
inoryy: well, I'm an old one
Astrobytes: Old! You're a young whippersnapper.
Astrobytes: (not really, just putting my "old man" voice on)
AntiSquid: "don't patronize me son"
eulerscheZahl: i'm here to relax, don't teach me new vocabulary :scream:
Counterbalance: oxymoron
AbundantPuddle: An infinite number of mathematicians walk into a bar. The first one orders a beer, the second one orders half a beer, the third one orders a quarter of a beer, the fourth orders an eighth and at about this time the bartender says "Let me just stop you right there." He pours two beers out for them and says "the problem with you mathematicians is you need to know your limits."
Astrobytes: :smirk:
AntiSquid: hey imo that's good
Astrobytes: It's probably the best one so far
AntiSquid: but why did he pour 2 beers at the end?
AbundantPuddle: I wish I could take credit for it, but I heard it from somewhere else.
inoryy: geometric series sum to 2
AbundantPuddle: Because that will cover the infinite number of mathematicians.
AntiSquid: is it because of some sort of infinite series formula? it still sounds as if it won't go above the one beer
AbundantPuddle: It won't.
Counterbalance: the first orders the 1 beer, the rest the 2nd
AbundantPuddle: Correct.
Counterbalance: had me confused too
AntiSquid: ah ok
eulerscheZahl: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e6/GeometricSquares.svg/220px-GeometricSquares.svg.png
jjhiggz: a testing engineer walks into a bar
jjhiggz: he orders a beer
eulerscheZahl: not exactly the image i was looking for
jjhiggz: then he orders 20 beers
jjhiggz: then he orders -20 beers
jjhiggz: then he orders 9000 beers
jjhiggz: then he orders an infinite amount of beers
jjhiggz: they all worked so he walked out of the bar
el19oc: then he gets thrown out
AntiSquid: no string / special chars?
jjhiggz: the bar breaks
Astrobytes: ffs
jjhiggz: Hey I'm still a newb gimme a break
Astrobytes: :D
Astrobytes: Wasn't bad
AbundantPuddle: Lol
eulerscheZahl: dist upgrade complete, still working \o/
Astrobytes: nice, strange the commandline upgrade didn't work tho
eulerscheZahl: no idea why
eulerscheZahl: had to exit i3 and start the default ubuntu UI
eulerscheZahl: no idea how I could use this as my main environment for years
eulerscheZahl: felt so inefficient
eulerscheZahl: audio is screwed up again, so much noise. had that problem before, the last dist fixed it
eulerscheZahl: now it's back :(
Astrobytes: Haven't used any linux flavours for a while tbh. Started on SuSE (work purposes) then went to slackware to learn stuff, then fedora. Way out of shape these days.
jjhiggz: So what types of programmers are y'all?
AntiSquid: damn i remember i was going to check out manjaro when it first comes out, still didn't have a look at it, it was so hyped on some linux related videos ...
AntiSquid: guess jjhiggz
Astrobytes: Oh actually, Kali and Debian too
Astrobytes: I'm not jjhiggz, just casual
eulerscheZahl: i'm the type of programmer who pretents to know stuff while being completely incompetent :)
Astrobytes: lol, yeah right
eulerscheZahl: works as long as others know even less
jjhiggz: isn't that how everybody feels
AntiSquid: euler suffers from the imposter syndrome jjhiggz
AbundantPuddle: I pretend like I don't know anything.
AbundantPuddle: Except it's not pretending.
eulerscheZahl: sometimes pretending that can help you dodge some work
Astrobytes: What, like the latest version of C#? :smirk:
eulerscheZahl: 8 i think. and 9 coming up
eulerscheZahl: and i failed to read :D
eulerscheZahl: got a private message:
Astrobytes: Quite! :D
eulerscheZahl: whay 08:58PM
YOUR FRIENDS IS BAND ME
TELLE HIM IM SORRY
PLEASE
Astrobytes: lol
eulerscheZahl: that's meant for you AntiSquid i guess
eulerscheZahl: message delivered, i'll ask for my cookie now
Astrobytes: hahaha
AntiSquid: 3 parts flour, 2 parts butter, 1 part sugar, knead it and shape it into cookies, bake for about 15 mins at 160, there's your cookie
eulerscheZahl: i'll send him this as your reply
eulerscheZahl: he doesn't have the chat in between
eulerscheZahl: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/c5b31b49-b314-4f7b-8ed1-f992c85dfe9d
Astrobytes: Perfect
eulerscheZahl: i'm childishly laughing right now
Astrobytes: It's appropriate :D
el19oc: I bet he's pleasantly surprised
eulerscheZahl: he doesn't believe me that this was the reply
el19oc: ask him what kind of reply he was hoping for
Astrobytes: Well, in these times of fake news eh
AbundantPuddle: I was going to say you other countries have some weird cookies with 15 minutes at 160. Then I realized you were probably referring to celsius.
AntiSquid: i thought you wanted the cookie lol ... might get messaged by thibaud asking me about that last part
AntiSquid: ya celsius
AbundantPuddle: Yeah, that makes a lot more sense. Lmao.
eulerscheZahl: we are Europeans. of course we use Celsius
eulerscheZahl: and meters
AntiSquid: UK is stuck somewhere between the two worlds afaik
Astrobytes: Yes. It's incredibly annoying.
AbundantPuddle: Yeah, the standard here is Fahrenheit. 160 F is about 71 C.
Astrobytes: Anything other than metric is just trying to be difficult for the hell of it
itzblinkzy: yep
AbundantPuddle: I agree 100 percent.
itzblinkzy: i hate the imperial system
Astrobytes: Brits and Americans ofc are not known for that particular trait...
AntiSquid: i think you can still slow cook at 71 C :p
AbundantPuddle: We don't even use the imperial system. It's a modified version of the imperial system.
eulerscheZahl: we should switch to Kelvin for temperatures
AbundantPuddle: How about Kevins instead?
AbundantPuddle: It's a new unit.
Astrobytes: Sure, makes more sense than Fahrenheit (Kelvins that is)
eulerscheZahl: that's how you measure intelligence, isn't it?
AbundantPuddle: 1 kevin = 25 C
Astrobytes: Karens for distance and Kevins for temperature?
AbundantPuddle: Yes
AbundantPuddle: !
AbundantPuddle: And Kyles for mass
Astrobytes: Chads for force
AbundantPuddle: Lmao
Deeps2104: whtsUp folks
el19oc: haha, just destroying all the code I just wrote, the usual
AntiSquid: geez what is this guy going to upload next? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrIbQ0pIFOg
itzblinkzy: nemmtor share your code please?
Schneewittchen: @AntiSquid Ideal opportunity to build on this! Love it
Scarfield: what a time to be alive
Astrobytes: Scarfalive
Scarfield: AlivestroBytes
Astrobytes: lol, how's things
Scarfield: good good, managed to get into wood1 in othello, and searching for the next thing to implement :)
Astrobytes: Ah yeah, I saw that when I was working on it yesterday, gj :)
Scarfield: stable cells in eval seems to be a good metric i am not using yet.
ty
Astrobytes: Are you MCTSing or alphabeta?
Scarfield: MCTS IPT
Astrobytes: Yeah I still have to implement stability
Astrobytes: IPT?
Scarfield: Immediate Propagation Termination :p
Scarfield: somehow worked better with that i have now, than EPT
Astrobytes: Never heard of it. It sounds like organic chemistry
Astrobytes: What is it?
Scarfield: i think smitsi mentioned it last week. Just no rollout, but eval at leaf nodes
Astrobytes: That's EPT tho
Scarfield: so immediate instead of early :p
Scarfield: EPT has rollout of some depth (?)
Astrobytes: Meh, I still call it EPT
Astrobytes: 0 is still early!
Scarfield: sure xD
Scarfield: VEPT
Astrobytes: But yeah, the Immediate suits it better
Astrobytes: lol, Very EArly
Scarfield: premature even
Astrobytes: PPT
Scarfield: you are using AB right?
Astrobytes: Yeah
Astrobytes: Was considering trying out EPT to see how it goes, but still working on my ab
Scarfield: what depths do you reach?
Astrobytes: 9-15 currently
Scarfield: nice
Astrobytes: Iterative deepening, aspiration windows, working in the TT soon hopefully
Scarfield: hmm for some reason i havent thought of working on that for othello, but i suppose there are plenty of instances where it will be the same states
Astrobytes: I'm hoping to get probcut working but I broke my offline runner earlier, need to fix it tomorrow
Scarfield: still havent read about it, but its something about pruning i gathered from chat?
Astrobytes: Yeah, regression based
Astrobytes: Pretty cool
MSmits: hey
Scarfield: :wave:
MSmits: I'm still fitting parameters for othello :)
Astrobytes: And I'm loving the other approaches with TD and n-tuples etc
Astrobytes: Great to see all these different approaches
Astrobytes: Ofc MSmits :D
Scarfield: TD?
Astrobytes: Ah temporal difference learning
MSmits: got a version with 30% dbd r 40% jace k 50% tric trac 100% renard but 10% robo :(
MSmits: frontiers worked
Astrobytes: That's a pretty good bot already
MSmits: yeah
Scarfield: have been thinking that shouldnt MiniMax AB outplay MCTS EPT assuming the same performance on sim?
MSmits: still plenty to fit and refit though
Astrobytes: And glad you got frontiers working, low weight right?
jacek: and hows frontiers weight now?
MSmits: similar to yours i think
MSmits: I have mobility 900 frontiers 550
MSmits: so similar ratio
jacek: you mean frontiers negative :?
MSmits: yes
jacek: phew
Astrobytes: lol
MSmits: i have had versions that did 65% vs you too jacek, but they sucked too much against others, that one was 10% tric trac
MSmits: so, a lot of rps
jacek: i wonder, what is the practical max mobility. 30 possible moves?
Astrobytes: Scarfield - depends on a lot of factors I guess
MSmits: hmm
MSmits: i dont see 30 really
MSmits: thats huge
Astrobytes: 30 is a lot
MSmits: run a million games in selfplay with some randomness and take the max :)
MSmits: maybe record statistics, get a nice bell curve
Scarfield: and flatten it
Astrobytes: Orrrr.... we wait for you to do this and tell us about it in a wall of text chat sermon ;)
MSmits: lol
MSmits: no no, not me
MSmits: too busy
Astrobytes: :D
MSmits: been plugging some yavalath book holes
Astrobytes: Ah OK
MSmits: people were still winning games
MSmits: now it's like 3 out of 100
MSmits: those damn mcts bots
MSmits: too much random
MSmits: pb 4 and dark horse are the toughest
jacek: hmm early results indicate max 23 mobility
MSmits: sounds right
Scarfield: but MM should be able to get deeper than MCTS EPT since MCTS goes through the same sims over and over. And since its EPT its based on an eval anyway
MSmits: average depth, yes Scarfield
Scarfield: at least thats what i think, wondering why it works so well :D
jacek: found 25
MSmits: mcts has selective depth, the deepest nodes will be deeper than those with minimax
MSmits: but they will have bad statistics of course
Scarfield: sure, thats the difference of course
MSmits: also, mcts estimates the overall strength of a board state with statistics wheras minimax just looks that the best min/max at the max depth level
Scarfield: near future good eval, leads to a propable further future eval
jacek: well thats probably why multi probcut works here
MSmits: trappy games favor minimax because it finds the one rare line of play that kills you
Astrobytes: yes jacek
Scarfield: i thought the propcut was new, noticed this reference ealier:
Scarfield: M. Buro, Experiments with Multi-ProbCut and a New
High-Quality Evaluation Function for Othello, Workshop
on game-tree search, NECI, 1997.
MSmits: why would it work better here as opposed to other games
MSmits: it's not new, it just doesnt work in many games I think
jacek: maybe the eval is more 'smooth' in othello. shallow search eval can estimate deeper eval
MSmits: that would mean mcts should be strong as welll at least mcts with eval
jacek: well im using best first search and it works better than my ab
MSmits: you mean, uct guided search?
Astrobytes: Yes but the multi probcut is 'trained' offline
Scarfield: cheats!
jacek: yes. its like mcts ept but with negamaxing propagation
Astrobytes: jacekmax
MSmits: so you dont record statistics, but do the min/max thing?
Astrobytes: I think I came across this approach somewhere
MSmits: only in an uneven tree
MSmits: that is deeper in some places
MSmits: you can get some horizon effect problems in some games with this
MSmits: I have to correct for that with ept as well
MSmits: not so much in Othello though
jacek: yes. but i still final select child with most visits, not best eval score (aside from avoidiing provn loses)
MSmits: hmm ok
jacek: and yes, my bot became stronger but more blind
jacek: i started to losing to weaklings more
Astrobytes: So derogatory :P
MSmits: hehe
jacek: https://www.chessprogramming.org/Best-First_Minimax_Search
Astrobytes: yeah that's where I saw it
jacek: i think the line of actions guys (yes, those from mcts solver paper) use mcts-ab
MSmits: whats that
MSmits: Winands right?
Astrobytes: yeah
MSmits: fellow Dutchies
Scarfield: lol just started reading about multi-probcut... its a pruning array(?)
MSmits: yeah
MSmits: well
jacek: the same as jacekmax, but they use shalow alpha-beta instead of simple eval
MSmits: you look up stuff and then do some probability calc
MSmits: below some treshold you cut
Scarfield: then i think JaCegMax would be more fitting :p
MSmits: ceg as in cegprak?
Astrobytes: joke's been done already Out-of-the-loop-field :P
jacek: scarvolume
Astrobytes: (but yeah, totally :D )
Scarfield: :cry:
Scarfield: https://youtu.be/0JElywbkSbY?t=6
Astrobytes: lol
jacek: sleepy sleeps
Scarfield: :zzz:
jacek: why zzzz indicates sleep
Scarfield: sleepy sleeps doesntP :thinking:
jacek: https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/27045/how-did-the-letter-z-come-to-be-associated-with-sleeping-snoring
Astrobytes: 'catching some z's" is the origin, but I donno the reason
Scarfield: lol kinda like the different origin stories of "ok"
Astrobytes: That's a rabbit hole not worth exploring lol
tomatoes: mosquitos
Astrobytes: hm?
Astrobytes: Oh. 'zzzzzz'
tomatoes: when you're trying to sleep they're doing bzzzzzz
Astrobytes: The worst part is when it stops.
Astrobytes: Light goes on, nearest flat object is picked up, "where is that little shit!"
MSmits: I electrocute them
MSmits: zzzzzap
Scarfield: with or without a wet sponge?
MSmits: without
MSmits: i know, it's cruel
Scarfield: savage
Astrobytes: Percy!
Astrobytes: *Poicy
MSmits: dont get either =/
Astrobytes: The Green Mile?
MSmits: yeah I saw that
MSmits: i got the sponge thing
Astrobytes: Percy... the guy that electrocutes Del without the spong
Astrobytes: e
MSmits: ohh ok
Astrobytes: "Ah din't know sponge s'posed to be wet"
Scarfield: your memory is too good
Astrobytes: I've seen that film a lot over the years.
Astrobytes: I prefer the Shawshank Redemption tbh if we're going with Stephen King adaptations
Scarfield: i have only seen it once i think, 15 years ago or something. Kung Pow i have seen 5 times though xD
Astrobytes: Yeah, I've seen that a few times too
Astrobytes: Iron Sky?
MSmits: I like Desperation, if we're talking Stephen King
MSmits: and of course. IT
Astrobytes: Did they make a movie of Desperation? (tak)
MSmits: yep
Astrobytes: I only know the book (taktak)
MSmits: i missed it too, but i found it in video rental at some point
Scarfield: yea once, but can remember almost nothing, saw it with a friend and some :writing_hand:
Astrobytes: Interesting. IT ofc is awesome
MSmits: better than you would expect of such a hard to find movie
MSmits: i like both IT movies, the first and the remake
MSmits: I really dont know which is best
Astrobytes: Same
Astrobytes: There's parts I like better in both
MSmits: you have to correct for nostalgia, some people cant let go of an earlier version so they always find it best
Astrobytes: And then I change my mind
MSmits: yeah both have parts that are better
MSmits: I did not like the spider ending of the first
Astrobytes: Book still beats any of the adaptations, but I thought the remake was worthy
MSmits: first was a bit scarier i think
Astrobytes: Was just about to say that
Astrobytes: Much darker
MSmits: yeah
Scarfield: wise penny
MSmits: I read most of stephen king i think
MSmits: they are making a new one arent they?
MSmits: arent they making lisey's story?
MSmits: that is one of the best
Astrobytes: Oh really? I didn't know that
MSmits: i vaguely remember hearing it somewhere
MSmits: might be wrong
Astrobytes: I wish they would make a decent version of the Stand
MSmits: ah yeah i read that
MSmits: that story has been done to death though
MSmits: not the stephen king one
MSmits: but general, apocalypse stories. Lately they pop up all over
Astrobytes: True, but you need the King-iness to make it special
MSmits: sure
MSmits: if they succeed. The movies are hit and miss
Astrobytes: Always
MSmits: well tbh, i havent seen that many i didnt like
Astrobytes: The Pet Sematary remake was OK I thought
MSmits: not sure if i saw that, how old is it?
Astrobytes: It had the balance of humour and darkness just right
Astrobytes: Last year
MSmits: then i didnt see it yet
Astrobytes: It's worth a watch
MSmits: will do
MSmits: i still need to watch picard
Astrobytes: It's even got John Lithgow in it
MSmits: ohhh
MSmits: cool
Astrobytes: as Jud ;)
MSmits: dont remember who jud was in the book
MSmits: been a while
Astrobytes: The old guy
MSmits: ah ok
Astrobytes: And yeah, get on Picard. Rewatching it atm, still fantastic
MSmits: would have required some serious irishman tech to make john the young guy
Astrobytes: hahaha
AntiSquid: have you tried the orville ?
MSmits: seen bits and pieces
MSmits: comedy central
MSmits: never watched full episode
Astrobytes: No, I know it though. Is it decent?
Scarfield: its actually decent
Astrobytes: Cool
Scarfield: i was pleasently suprised or how you say
MSmits: will watch it at some point
AntiSquid: not sure ... i dropped it at first few episodes, then read some reviews that the shows starts getting good around ep 5
Scarfield: very similar to star trek in. terrible acting, decent - good subjects for the plots
Astrobytes: I can do slow first episodes/series. I made it through DS9 so I can watch anything
AntiSquid: this just reminded me of Odyssey V ... show was cancelled and i was looking forward to the big reveal :/
Astrobytes: Btw, although Picard is Star Trek through and through, it's totally not. And blows most of Trek out the water.
AntiSquid: i liked that show, although it's kinda weird, random
Scarfield: how about Buck Rogers?
MSmits: Deep space 9 is my favorite ST
Astrobytes: The only Buck Rogers I liked was that song by Feeder
Astrobytes: MSmits - once the Dominion got involved it became interesting, and then magnificent by the end
MSmits: true, but i liked it before that also
AntiSquid: i only liked the original with captain kirk
AntiSquid: and the ooooooooo intro
MSmits: because compared to TNG and voyager (to a lesser extent) there is an actual storyline
Astrobytes: The first series or so were slowww though
Astrobytes: TNG developed better after Gene Roddenberry died
AntiSquid: i've read the books for the first series too
Astrobytes: Or got ill even
MSmits: yeah TNG did have some development and voyager too, but DS9 beats it
Astrobytes: He was clinging to the original series formula
AntiSquid: and the old Star Trek movies were my favorites
Astrobytes: The writers had other ideas, DS9 was an evolution of that
MSmits: I don't really like any of the star trek movies tbh
Astrobytes: I love all the ST movies
Astrobytes: old and new
Astrobytes: The old ones were a staple of my childhood!
MSmits: well they were ok i guess, but the series beat the movies for me
MSmits: babylon 5 was also a great sci fi series I think
Scarfield: was close to naming my frontier function FinalFrontier for othello
MSmits: do it
MSmits: it will pefrorm better
Astrobytes: I saw The Final Frontier, The Undiscovered Country (v and VI), Generations, First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis in the cinema
MSmits: oh I did like first contact
MSmits: the only one i saw multiple times i thin
Astrobytes: Insurrection is OK, Nemesis was messy but had good plotlines on the go - Picard follows on from the final events of that btw so you might wanna give it a watch
MSmits: nemesis?
Astrobytes: The last TNG movie
MSmits: sure
MSmits: will do that then
Astrobytes: I enjoyed the more recent ones too actually
Astrobytes: But prefer the older ones
AntiSquid: does the new Kirk fit his role?
Astrobytes: I thought he captured it pretty well
AntiSquid: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EamOsFwXgAEG-pj.jpg
Astrobytes: hahaha
AntiSquid: star trek 4 was planned for this year can't find if it's cancelled
Astrobytes: Yeah, gotta wait for next series of Picard too
Astrobytes: I never got on with the newer series of ST they made, Enterprise and Discovery
MSmits: Enterprise was not halfbad. I did not like discovery
Astrobytes: Enterprise was worth it just for Scott Bakula, keep expecting Al to pop up with his cigar
MSmits: lol yeah
MSmits: quantum leap right?
Astrobytes: Yeah :D
MSmits: I never watched that show fully, in order, but it popped up on our tv sometimes when i was young
Astrobytes: Ziggy wasn't it? The little computer thingy
MSmits: vaguely remember that
Astrobytes: Yeah, I watched it cause my mum and dad did
Astrobytes: Hated the theme tune for Enterprise though
AntiSquid: have you seen Andromeda
Astrobytes: Yeah, didn't really dig it at all tbh
AntiSquid: i liked the first 80% of it i think
AntiSquid: up to the Abyss nonsense
Astrobytes: I guess it was better than EArth: Final Conflict
MSmits: mmh where do i watch picard?
MSmits: i tried cbs but they want a zipcode thats valid and mine apparently isnt
MSmits: i guess it's US only
Astrobytes: I think I got it from 1337
MSmits: whats that
Astrobytes: well, I pirated it, put it that way
MSmits: ohh ok
Astrobytes: Torrents
MSmits: right
MSmits: i havent done that in a long time
Astrobytes: Try before you buy!
AntiSquid: lots of good sci-fi stories that never made it to the screen and it's hard to dig for them, especially when everyone has their own preferences and therefore you can't ask anyone for advice @_@
MSmits: brb
AntiSquid: biased opinion
Astrobytes: I'll watch anything tbh, then decide
AntiSquid: did you read Nightfall?
Astrobytes: Sometimes you get a recommendation that's good for you
AntiSquid: if yes then check the movie out and be amazed how much they managed to trash a good book
Astrobytes: Asimov?
AntiSquid: what site do you use for recommendations
AntiSquid: yes Asimov
AntiSquid: see a lot of people hate Asimov and his style
Astrobytes: Yeah I did, I've read most of his stuff. Never heard about the movie. They're doing Foundation now I think
AntiSquid: because "it's too simple" , he didn't open the metaphor floodgate
Astrobytes: I only take recommendations from people I speak to/know
Astrobytes: Otherwise I decide by myself
Astrobytes: It's good to keep an open mind
AntiSquid: Clarkesworldmagazine is a perfect example of what i consider not-real-sci-fi, pretentious bs writing
MSmits: i did read foundation
AntiSquid: and whenever i try a new "sci-fi" book that popular, i often end up remembering that site
Astrobytes: Yeah I don't bother with all that crap AntiSquid, as long as you can find new releases etc it's good. Pay no mind to that opinionated drivel
Astrobytes: Same goes for reviews of most things tbh
AntiSquid: that's not it, i am just saying i have difficulties finding what (imo) is real sci-fi
MSmits: what is real sci fo?
MSmits: fi?
AntiSquid: because a lot of stuff takes on that label
Astrobytes: Yeah, good luck. It used to be a simple case of go to the library, enter scifi section
Astrobytes: Nowadays genres are merged
AntiSquid: MSmits maybe you have more luck than me or you enjoy different kind of books, but i come across fantasy stuff labeled as sci-fi, or stories that just contain some futuristic electric devices used in personal household but the story focuses on something completely different and comes across as reading a completely different genre
Astrobytes: Teen vampire goes to space = scifi. That sort of crap
MSmits: fantasy really should not be labeled sci fi
MSmits: though some books are in both genres
MSmits: try the coldfire trilogy
MSmits: one of the best series i ever read
MSmits: it's very like a fantasy series but with a strong sci fi backdrop
Astrobytes: Must say, even though the guy's a total dick and it's not really my thing, I actually enjoyed the Legacy of the Aldenata series by John Ringo (military scifi)
Astrobytes: (aka Posleen War series)
MSmits: will check that out
Astrobytes: Miss out the Cally's War books and Watch on the Rhine
MSmits: sure, I'll probably just read the main stories, unless
MSmits: I really like them
Astrobytes: (side-stories and spinoffs, some are good but those are naff)
macobo: Ooh, book suggestions!
Astrobytes: It's quite heavy on the military gung-ho stuff, but good storylines
macobo: Let me contribute: The Sword of Kaigen is one of the best fantasy books I've read in recent years.
MSmits: Black company series is awesome
Astrobytes: Shall check the chat history later, I'm out for tonight guys
MSmits: by Glen cook
Astrobytes: gn all
MSmits: gn Astrobytes
AntiSquid: gn
dmoa: absolute bullshit
pedrosorio: ?
mohsinalipro: yeah!
mohsinalipro: i am new to the codinggame.com
ismailkarsli: Ok looks like im a stupid according to this site
Joe_no_name: how do I read debug messages? Could somebody explain alittle?
pedrosorio: @ismailkarsli why?
ismailkarsli: @pedrosorio because im staring like "hamster staring at camera" meme
pedrosorio: that does mean you're stupid, probably just unfamiliar with the kind of problem you are looking at
pedrosorio: does not mean*
ismailkarsli: First one makes more sense :D Thanks for the morale. I hope I could improve
pedrosorio: sure, what kind of problem are you looking at?
ismailkarsli: It was like finding midpoint of two coordinates
pedrosorio: did you manage to solve it?
ismailkarsli: Nope, i didn't know how to do it. Looks like i was should divide the x and y coordinates to 2 or something like that
ismailkarsli: Yep, I was should add the x and y coordinates and divide them by 2.
pedrosorio: yep
tecnosam: hello
mogzhey: hi
pedrosorio: hi
pedrosorio: my 100th clash of code
pedrosorio: woohoo
Laminator: leggo
pedrosorio: leggo?
pedrosorio: I'm convinced some people don't understand the goal of "shortest mode" in clash of code (e.g. @JayEm94 and @MathieuGanesan )
johnny1man: rude?
dantheking-crypto: lol
pedrosorio: the only other possibility is they hate that mode so much that they just implement something as quick as possible and submit
Laminator: It was my least favorite mode for a while. But it also ended up being the mode I learned the most from. I love it now whenever good programmers share their code.
remi6: pedrosorio, they are bots, check their profile.
Laminator: wow fuck some of them reverse problems
itzblinkzy: hate those
itzblinkzy: i can only do the predictable and ez ones
pedrosorio: I wish there were more of those and fewer of the shortest mode
itzblinkzy: i prefer fastest mode
itzblinkzy: i dont want golfed code im trying to learn
Kariin: idc as long as it's not math problems
pedrosorio: and just after I said that got a 3rd place in a reverse problem lol
itzblinkzy: yeah i cant do math problems
itzblinkzy: im bad at math :pensive:
itzblinkzy: ngoc please share your code if you please
Laminator: I always thought math and programming were hand in hand. But I've met a lot of programmers that hate math. Can't really empathize. I like both lol
Joe_no_name: KiwiTae do you have a question that I could maybe help out with?
