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DeWill: anything_ok

jrke: is there any description for bosses of langton's ant

KiwiTae: Thor puzzle is so hard been trying for a week now :(

KiwiTae: braaah

Default avatar.png Joe_no_name: KiwiTae do you have a question that I could maybe help out with?

Default avatar.png NuclearGiant_7d5: Has anyone here completed ? Looking for a clue on the Agent behavior for the Core network.

[CG]Thibaud: NuclearGiant_7d5 this article may help:

Default avatar.png NuclearGiant_7d5: Thanks. Checking it out.

Andriamanitra: fun times with reverse problem, found an alternative pattern that works 100% with visible test cases and only got 20% :^)

Default avatar.png Marcollose: Is there any Dzurlord?

KiwiTae: Joe_no_name I tell thor to go to the coodinate where the lamp is in the test, but then the validation test i dont know where the light is , so I cannot... Maybe hardcoding is not great ah >,<

Default avatar.png Joe_no_name: How are you telling thor to get there?

KiwiTae: Joe_no_name sorry I was just messing with you :raising_hand_tone1: Thanks though :D

KiwiTae: Joe_no_name are you working on a puzzle now?

Default avatar.png Joe_no_name: OH MAN! 😂🤣 you got me good! Last time I ever try to help anybody on here. Yeah im about to finish the power of thor ep 1

KiwiTae: pewpewpew

Default avatar.png Joe_no_name: Shots fired

Default avatar.png pk359: hi

[CG]Thibaud: hey pk359

Default avatar.png pk359: yes?

[CG]Thibaud: simply saying hello :D

KiwiTae: o/

dt200020: hi

whay: hi

Default avatar.png AdvaitJ: hi

Guiguim: Hello

Default avatar.png s3698211: Hello guys, have a great night

Tiramon: Andriamanitra are you talking about the optimization -> Reverse Engineering? It's not hard to pass the testcases, as long as your output is valid

Tiramon: the problem is to keep the score high ;)

Guiguim: whay why do you always give up ?

Default avatar.png macobo: whay oh whay

remi6: Hello

shangcode: Hi

Speedlulu: Hi, was the shortest code mode deleted from Clash of Code ?

Oceanman: nope

Speedlulu: thank you

Oceanman: same room tho

Oceanman: lol

Speedlulu: there really should be a way to chose which game mode you want to play

Speedlulu: hey yeah

Oceanman: yeah

Oceanman: reverse mode is fun

jacek: in private clash you can

Default avatar.png macobo: reverse mode is super annoying :D

Default avatar.png macobo: at least for a tryhard like me

shangcode: I feel reverse mode is so cool, sounds like hacker's reverse engineering.:tophat:

remi6: What about puzzles about physics and mathematics, macobo?

Default avatar.png macobo: Those Clash of code puzzles are generally not hard at all. :) I just find reverse mode really luck based.

pvchopade204: yepp

DarkyParky: i think golf (shortest mode) is annoying for many languages

Oceanman: shortest mode is like a punishment to c++ users

Default avatar.png macobo: At least it's predictable. The puzzles are easy (and short) as well, so using ruby isn't that hard there. :) But agreed, there's a learning curve.

jistjoalal: why ppl with there actual human face in their profile pic always get smoked in clash of code?

jistjoalal: and you know youre bout to get smoked when you see some weeb looking pic

Uljahn: :smirk:

Default avatar.png macobo: A lot of the common faces are official bots apparently :)


pvchopade204: join fast

pvchopade204: 1 min 40 sec remail


pvchopade204: join fast for second private challanmge

pvchopade204: join quick

pvchopade204: ...

Astrobytes: pvchopade204, please don't keep spamming clash invites in chat, just asking if anyone wants t o join is fine

Uljahn: private clashes in Java :rolling_eyes:

Default avatar.png macobo: I wonder if CoC is trying to say I have an addiction.

Default avatar.png macobo: First it was reCAPTCHA every time, now it requires me to do the picture matching every time as well :)

itzblinkzy: f

_Akira_: good morning everybody

_Akira_: :smiley:

Logiman09: Hello

itzblinkzy: hi guys

whay: hi

AntiSquid: hi

whay: how are you

itzblinkzy: good

whay: you are irlanda

whay: you have compueter windows 10

AntiSquid: wrong, it's ubuntu 20

eulerscheZahl: i think i should update. installed ubuntu 19.10 when i reinstalled my system. support expired now i think

eulerscheZahl: do i dare a system upgrade? last time i tried (from 14 to 16 i think) it didn't work as expected and i ended up reinstalling it

AntiSquid: really? isn't 18 still supported?

whay: you have windows 7

eulerscheZahl: there is the LTS version (long term support) with 5 years

eulerscheZahl: but the one i installed has 9 months

eulerscheZahl: i think i'll risk it, yolo

Astrobytes: good luck!

eulerscheZahl: The following packages will be upgraded:

eulerscheZahl: doesn't sound that complicated after all

eulerscheZahl: oh, it's done already :D

Astrobytes: lol, smallest upgrade ever

eulerscheZahl: maybe i updated before without noticing

eulerscheZahl: code = VS code

Counterbalance: is it also apt-get dist-upgrade on ubuntu?

whay: you can play with me world of tank blitz

eulerscheZahl: i did sudo apt dist-upgrade

eulerscheZahl: there is apt now. less typing than apt-get

eulerscheZahl: and slightly different ASCII art

eulerscheZahl: i don't know about the internals

whay: iam telle:angry:

AntiSquid: are you in oxford atm whay ?

whay: yeah

AntiSquid: what are you studying?

eulerscheZahl: let's meet up

eulerscheZahl: start cooking AntiSquid, whay will be at your place soon

AntiSquid: i did pizza and it's all gone now

whay: programming

el19oc: what kinda pizza?

eulerscheZahl: pineapple

Astrobytes: Eugh.

AntiSquid: mushrooms, salami, cheese + (tomato and base)

Astrobytes: I love mushrooms on pizzas

AntiSquid: i think the beetroot pizza is worse than the pineapple one

eulerscheZahl: for me it's eggplant + zucchini on the pizza

AntiSquid: butternut squash and goats cheese works alright imo

Astrobytes: beetroot? Weird.

eulerscheZahl: but mushrooms are fine as well

Astrobytes: Yeah, nice euler

Astrobytes: I'm a huge fan of both

AntiSquid: ya it's some vegan pizza (the beetroot one)

whay: I want someone to talk to me:worried:

whay: ن

AntiSquid: i made my own from scratch though

Astrobytes: Best way

Astrobytes: And you can actually get it crispy (or however you like it)

el19oc: I let the pizza professionals handle it

el19oc: everything I cook turns to ash

whay: :sob:

whay: you can telle me

Astrobytes: haha, cooking ain't for everyone I guess :D

AntiSquid: use an oven timer

eulerscheZahl: when you can read, you can cook from the Ratatouille movie, paraphrasing as i don't remember the exact wording

eulerscheZahl: but i don't agree with it. i can read

whay: :star_and_crescent: iam islamic

Astrobytes: whay, can you please stop your nonsense. You've been at it for at least a week now.

jjhiggz: Where do we go to report an error

Astrobytes: jjhiggz start in here

Astrobytes: What's the issue?

eulerscheZahl: 50% chance we tell you it's not an error

jjhiggz: I just did a challenge in dart, and when I changed my answer I was getting all of the correct outputs, but then the test results defaulted to 'expected nothing'

jjhiggz: should I post my code?

whay: What nonsense you do not want to speak with

eulerscheZahl: and the problem statement

jjhiggz: I'm not sure that I still have access to the problem statement it was a clash of code


eulerscheZahl: somehow the command line update did nothing it seems. updating via GUI now...

eulerscheZahl: do you remember parts of the wording?

eulerscheZahl: of the statement

jjhiggz: yeah the goal was to take two arrays


eulerscheZahl: search it here

jjhiggz: one containing x coordiantes

el19oc: ah yes the ratatouille movie, a timeless classic

el19oc: that's where I get all my inspiration from


jjhiggz: its "crazy coordinates"


whay: NAZIS :flag_dz:

AntiSquid: whay that's random spam and annoying

eulerscheZahl: you print an extra , at the end jjhiggz

jjhiggz: I had it outputting (1, 1),(5, 2),(9, 5) instead of 1, 1), (5, 2), (9, 5)

AntiSquid: try to discuss topics closer to CG whay

eulerscheZahl: the error messages isn't optimal in this case. we are complaining about it for years :D

whay: I want to bother you because you do not talk to me, you consider me an offense

AntiSquid: an offense to what

AntiSquid: what puzzle are you doing whay?

eulerscheZahl: you ignore the current chat topic and start spamming :flag_dz: and such

Astrobytes: For at least a week now

jjhiggz: its not that with the extra comma, substring in dart is like slice in most languages so I'm cutting out the last character with it

Astrobytes: Surely boredom must set in after a while

whay: I HATE ALL

AntiSquid: i mean i directly addressed you like 5 times in the past 30 minutes, that's a privilege not an offense, whay :p

AntiSquid: ok this is trolling

AntiSquid: and really bad one

jjhiggz: Plus the problem was actually that all the tests starting expecting the value 'not found'


Astrobytes: Does it ignore the extra whitespace at the end as well jjhiggz? (I don't know Dart)

AntiSquid: whay stop the nonsense

eulerscheZahl: but are you BAN MAN?


jjhiggz: Well thats what I'm saying is that, I don't think it was a dart thing. There were no console errors, but the EXPECTED values for the output all defaulted to "none" or something along those lines.

eulerscheZahl: it's a char by char comparison

eulerscheZahl: when the expected is "abc" and you print "abcd", it tells you that it expected nothing

Astrobytes: Yep. And that's the default error when the output isn't as expected (sadly)

eulerscheZahl: that is after the "abc" which is correct. just misleading error message

jjhiggz: Thats bizarre

jjhiggz: ok

eulerscheZahl: feel free to complain on the forum. it confuses a lot of users

jjhiggz: haha

eulerscheZahl: me included when I was new to CG

eulerscheZahl: now i know the quirks

jjhiggz: I'm going to Karen the S**t out of this until they fix it

jjhiggz: not really though I'm too lazy

eulerscheZahl: that's how we got D support

jjhiggz: and need to put all my \efforts into getting a job

eulerscheZahl: oh, good luck on that

eulerscheZahl: did you find CG via an application? CG hosts job assessments as well

inoryy: wait till you get to C++ pragmas

Astrobytes: :grimacing:

jjhiggz: no I found it through this youtube streamer based out of Denver.

jjhiggz: CJ with the codinggarden channel

eulerscheZahl: a clasher. there's much more to discover on CG

eulerscheZahl: that's what makes CG special

el19oc: I was gonna ask

el19oc: what bot programming challenge do you guys recommend?

el19oc: other than csb and spring challenge

inoryy: CSB! Oh...

jjhiggz: I gotta do some of those, I appreciate the guidance amigo

eulerscheZahl: scroll to the bottom, sort by community rating

eulerscheZahl: we are all biased in some way. but with lots of votes something reasonable may pop up

Astrobytes: And feel free to ask for advice/help here

jjhiggz: this website is pretty amazing I'm not going to lie.

Astrobytes: el19oc - really depends on what you like

jjhiggz: Its way more interactive than codewars

eulerscheZahl: it's even possible to upload your own multiplayer games on this website

jjhiggz: whattt?

el19oc: ayy, thanks

el19oc: that list's useful

jjhiggz: As in like through the clashCode format?

eulerscheZahl: takes a lot of effort to create one though


jjhiggz: or as in like you can full on design a whole game?

whay: HI AGAIN

whay: HAHAHA

jjhiggz: Oh wow thats pretty cool

Astrobytes: Whole game, puzzles, clashes, optimasation games, you can make all of those

jjhiggz: I see some chemistry ones

Default avatar.png sanskriti: hii

jjhiggz: Do people actually get jobs through this website?

eulerscheZahl: yes, there is

jjhiggz: and in order to do it, do they have to be complete bawwses at coding?


eulerscheZahl: hiring companies send you a link to an online exam

el19oc: rude

Astrobytes: AntiSquid hammer required

eulerscheZahl: in the past CG also held sponsored contests where you could choose from a list of companies where you want to apply

jjhiggz: Oh wow, thats awesome.

Default avatar.png sanskriti: busy people

jjhiggz: I need to be more active here, I feel like if I got in the swing of things I could easily crunch out five hours a day on this site and time would fly by

AntiSquid: lol i wasted time in private and he pretended to understand

inoryy: aside from the actual hiring channels the practice on the website will help; played a role for me at least

Astrobytes: It's not IAmNoob/python_programer is it? Also had the University of Oxford thing, and about the same level of English skills

eulerscheZahl: also something you can mention on your application. shows passion

inoryy: yeah

jjhiggz: Do employers look for specific languages on this site. It definitely seems like it would be easier to perform well on code clashes in other non-dart languages

jjhiggz: I noticed most of the people crushing it are c++ or python, and sometimes Javascript, but I've been doing dart challenges because I'm trying to learn flutter and I suck at statically typed languages

Default avatar.png macobo: Programming languages are like socks :)

eulerscheZahl: i like that quote

Counterbalance: waiting for the punchline...

jjhiggz: So don't use old programming languages?

eulerscheZahl: you can change them

jjhiggz: lol

inoryy: you always lose one side

Default avatar.png macobo: And if you don't, you'll smell :)

jjhiggz: Programming languages get crusty if you spend too much time alone?

Counterbalance: ieuw

jjhiggz: I revoke that, too far my apologies

AntiSquid: 3 programmers walked into a pub

eulerscheZahl: the first programmer said:

eulerscheZahl: Astrobytes your turn to continue

Astrobytes: "Is it my round?"

eulerscheZahl: to which the second programmer replied:

Astrobytes: ...

jjhiggz: "That depends, what pair of socks are you wearing"

Counterbalance: syntax error: unexpected string literal

eulerscheZahl: lame joke, you messed it up

AntiSquid: was intending to tell a joke with a missing punch line ...

inoryy: well glad we're on a programming site and not comedy club, you'd be out of jobs

Astrobytes: Show us how it's done then inoryy

AntiSquid: but sure let's say they were coding their poker bots and one of them was using D in release mode

eulerscheZahl: dist upgrade changed some icons :rage:

Astrobytes: 3 programmers walk into a pub, the first holds up 2 fingers and say "3 beers please"...

inoryy: Three logicians walk into a bar. The barman says, 'Does everybody want a drink?'

inoryy: first one says "I don't know"

inoryy: second one says "I don't know"

eulerscheZahl: last: no

inoryy: third one says Yes

inoryy: ha

eulerscheZahl: wait i'm stupid

Astrobytes: That's an old one inoryy :D

inoryy: well, I'm an old one

Astrobytes: Old! You're a young whippersnapper.

Astrobytes: (not really, just putting my "old man" voice on)

AntiSquid: "don't patronize me son"

eulerscheZahl: i'm here to relax, don't teach me new vocabulary :scream:

Counterbalance: oxymoron

AbundantPuddle: An infinite number of mathematicians walk into a bar. The first one orders a beer, the second one orders half a beer, the third one orders a quarter of a beer, the fourth orders an eighth and at about this time the bartender says "Let me just stop you right there." He pours two beers out for them and says "the problem with you mathematicians is you need to know your limits."

Astrobytes: :smirk:

AntiSquid: hey imo that's good

Astrobytes: It's probably the best one so far

AntiSquid: but why did he pour 2 beers at the end?

AbundantPuddle: I wish I could take credit for it, but I heard it from somewhere else.

inoryy: geometric series sum to 2

AbundantPuddle: Because that will cover the infinite number of mathematicians.

AntiSquid: is it because of some sort of infinite series formula? it still sounds as if it won't go above the one beer

AbundantPuddle: It won't.

Counterbalance: the first orders the 1 beer, the rest the 2nd

AbundantPuddle: Correct.

Counterbalance: had me confused too

AntiSquid: ah ok


jjhiggz: a testing engineer walks into a bar

jjhiggz: he orders a beer

eulerscheZahl: not exactly the image i was looking for

jjhiggz: then he orders 20 beers

jjhiggz: then he orders -20 beers

jjhiggz: then he orders 9000 beers

jjhiggz: then he orders an infinite amount of beers

jjhiggz: they all worked so he walked out of the bar

el19oc: then he gets thrown out

AntiSquid: no string / special chars?

jjhiggz: the bar breaks

Astrobytes: ffs

jjhiggz: Hey I'm still a newb gimme a break

Astrobytes: :D

Astrobytes: Wasn't bad

AbundantPuddle: Lol

eulerscheZahl: dist upgrade complete, still working \o/

Astrobytes: nice, strange the commandline upgrade didn't work tho

eulerscheZahl: no idea why

eulerscheZahl: had to exit i3 and start the default ubuntu UI

eulerscheZahl: no idea how I could use this as my main environment for years

eulerscheZahl: felt so inefficient

eulerscheZahl: audio is screwed up again, so much noise. had that problem before, the last dist fixed it

eulerscheZahl: now it's back :(

Astrobytes: Haven't used any linux flavours for a while tbh. Started on SuSE (work purposes) then went to slackware to learn stuff, then fedora. Way out of shape these days.

jjhiggz: So what types of programmers are y'all?

AntiSquid: damn i remember i was going to check out manjaro when it first comes out, still didn't have a look at it, it was so hyped on some linux related videos ...

AntiSquid: guess jjhiggz

Astrobytes: Oh actually, Kali and Debian too

Astrobytes: I'm not jjhiggz, just casual

eulerscheZahl: i'm the type of programmer who pretents to know stuff while being completely incompetent :)

Astrobytes: lol, yeah right

eulerscheZahl: works as long as others know even less

jjhiggz: isn't that how everybody feels

AntiSquid: euler suffers from the imposter syndrome jjhiggz

AbundantPuddle: I pretend like I don't know anything.

AbundantPuddle: Except it's not pretending.

eulerscheZahl: sometimes pretending that can help you dodge some work

Astrobytes: What, like the latest version of C#? :smirk:

eulerscheZahl: 8 i think. and 9 coming up

eulerscheZahl: and i failed to read :D

eulerscheZahl: got a private message:

Astrobytes: Quite! :D


Astrobytes: lol

eulerscheZahl: that's meant for you AntiSquid i guess

eulerscheZahl: message delivered, i'll ask for my cookie now

Astrobytes: hahaha

AntiSquid: 3 parts flour, 2 parts butter, 1 part sugar, knead it and shape it into cookies, bake for about 15 mins at 160, there's your cookie

eulerscheZahl: i'll send him this as your reply

eulerscheZahl: he doesn't have the chat in between


Astrobytes: Perfect

eulerscheZahl: i'm childishly laughing right now

Astrobytes: It's appropriate :D

el19oc: I bet he's pleasantly surprised

eulerscheZahl: he doesn't believe me that this was the reply

el19oc: ask him what kind of reply he was hoping for

Astrobytes: Well, in these times of fake news eh

AbundantPuddle: I was going to say you other countries have some weird cookies with 15 minutes at 160. Then I realized you were probably referring to celsius.

AntiSquid: i thought you wanted the cookie lol ... might get messaged by thibaud asking me about that last part

AntiSquid: ya celsius

AbundantPuddle: Yeah, that makes a lot more sense. Lmao.

eulerscheZahl: we are Europeans. of course we use Celsius

eulerscheZahl: and meters

AntiSquid: UK is stuck somewhere between the two worlds afaik

Astrobytes: Yes. It's incredibly annoying.

AbundantPuddle: Yeah, the standard here is Fahrenheit. 160 F is about 71 C.

Astrobytes: Anything other than metric is just trying to be difficult for the hell of it

itzblinkzy: yep

AbundantPuddle: I agree 100 percent.

itzblinkzy: i hate the imperial system

Astrobytes: Brits and Americans ofc are not known for that particular trait...

AntiSquid: i think you can still slow cook at 71 C :p

AbundantPuddle: We don't even use the imperial system. It's a modified version of the imperial system.

eulerscheZahl: we should switch to Kelvin for temperatures

AbundantPuddle: How about Kevins instead?

AbundantPuddle: It's a new unit.

Astrobytes: Sure, makes more sense than Fahrenheit (Kelvins that is)

eulerscheZahl: that's how you measure intelligence, isn't it?

AbundantPuddle: 1 kevin = 25 C

Astrobytes: Karens for distance and Kevins for temperature?

AbundantPuddle: Yes

AbundantPuddle: !

AbundantPuddle: And Kyles for mass

Astrobytes: Chads for force

AbundantPuddle: Lmao

Deeps2104: whtsUp folks

el19oc: haha, just destroying all the code I just wrote, the usual

AntiSquid: geez what is this guy going to upload next?

itzblinkzy: nemmtor share your code please?

Schneewittchen: @AntiSquid Ideal opportunity to build on this! Love it

Scarfield: what a time to be alive

Astrobytes: Scarfalive

Scarfield: AlivestroBytes

Astrobytes: lol, how's things

Scarfield: good good, managed to get into wood1 in othello, and searching for the next thing to implement :)

Astrobytes: Ah yeah, I saw that when I was working on it yesterday, gj :)

Scarfield: stable cells in eval seems to be a good metric i am not using yet. ty

Astrobytes: Are you MCTSing or alphabeta?

Scarfield: MCTS IPT

Astrobytes: Yeah I still have to implement stability

Astrobytes: IPT?

Scarfield: Immediate Propagation Termination :p

Scarfield: somehow worked better with that i have now, than EPT

Astrobytes: Never heard of it. It sounds like organic chemistry

Astrobytes: What is it?

Scarfield: i think smitsi mentioned it last week. Just no rollout, but eval at leaf nodes

Astrobytes: That's EPT tho

Scarfield: so immediate instead of early :p

Scarfield: EPT has rollout of some depth (?)

Astrobytes: Meh, I still call it EPT

Astrobytes: 0 is still early!

Scarfield: sure xD

Scarfield: VEPT

Astrobytes: But yeah, the Immediate suits it better

Astrobytes: lol, Very EArly

Scarfield: premature even

Astrobytes: PPT

Scarfield: you are using AB right?

Astrobytes: Yeah

Astrobytes: Was considering trying out EPT to see how it goes, but still working on my ab

Scarfield: what depths do you reach?

Astrobytes: 9-15 currently

Scarfield: nice

Astrobytes: Iterative deepening, aspiration windows, working in the TT soon hopefully

Scarfield: hmm for some reason i havent thought of working on that for othello, but i suppose there are plenty of instances where it will be the same states

Astrobytes: I'm hoping to get probcut working but I broke my offline runner earlier, need to fix it tomorrow

Scarfield: still havent read about it, but its something about pruning i gathered from chat?

Astrobytes: Yeah, regression based

Astrobytes: Pretty cool

MSmits: hey

Scarfield: :wave:

MSmits: I'm still fitting parameters for othello :)

Astrobytes: And I'm loving the other approaches with TD and n-tuples etc

Astrobytes: Great to see all these different approaches

Astrobytes: Ofc MSmits :D

Scarfield: TD?

Astrobytes: Ah temporal difference learning

MSmits: got a version with 30% dbd r 40% jace k 50% tric trac 100% renard but 10% robo :(

MSmits: frontiers worked

Astrobytes: That's a pretty good bot already

MSmits: yeah

Scarfield: have been thinking that shouldnt MiniMax AB outplay MCTS EPT assuming the same performance on sim?

MSmits: still plenty to fit and refit though

Astrobytes: And glad you got frontiers working, low weight right?

jacek: and hows frontiers weight now?

MSmits: similar to yours i think

MSmits: I have mobility 900 frontiers 550

MSmits: so similar ratio

jacek: you mean frontiers negative :?

MSmits: yes

jacek: phew

Astrobytes: lol

MSmits: i have had versions that did 65% vs you too jacek, but they sucked too much against others, that one was 10% tric trac

MSmits: so, a lot of rps

jacek: i wonder, what is the practical max mobility. 30 possible moves?

Astrobytes: Scarfield - depends on a lot of factors I guess

MSmits: hmm

MSmits: i dont see 30 really

MSmits: thats huge

Astrobytes: 30 is a lot

MSmits: run a million games in selfplay with some randomness and take the max :)

MSmits: maybe record statistics, get a nice bell curve

Scarfield: and flatten it

Astrobytes: Orrrr.... we wait for you to do this and tell us about it in a wall of text chat sermon ;)

MSmits: lol

MSmits: no no, not me

MSmits: too busy

Astrobytes: :D

MSmits: been plugging some yavalath book holes

Astrobytes: Ah OK

MSmits: people were still winning games

MSmits: now it's like 3 out of 100

MSmits: those damn mcts bots

MSmits: too much random

MSmits: pb 4 and dark horse are the toughest

jacek: hmm early results indicate max 23 mobility

MSmits: sounds right

Scarfield: but MM should be able to get deeper than MCTS EPT since MCTS goes through the same sims over and over. And since its EPT its based on an eval anyway

MSmits: average depth, yes Scarfield

Scarfield: at least thats what i think, wondering why it works so well :D

jacek: found 25

MSmits: mcts has selective depth, the deepest nodes will be deeper than those with minimax

MSmits: but they will have bad statistics of course

Scarfield: sure, thats the difference of course

MSmits: also, mcts estimates the overall strength of a board state with statistics wheras minimax just looks that the best min/max at the max depth level

Scarfield: near future good eval, leads to a propable further future eval

jacek: well thats probably why multi probcut works here

MSmits: trappy games favor minimax because it finds the one rare line of play that kills you

Astrobytes: yes jacek

Scarfield: i thought the propcut was new, noticed this reference ealier:

Scarfield: M. Buro, Experiments with Multi-ProbCut and a New High-Quality Evaluation Function for Othello, Workshop on game-tree search, NECI, 1997.

MSmits: why would it work better here as opposed to other games

MSmits: it's not new, it just doesnt work in many games I think

jacek: maybe the eval is more 'smooth' in othello. shallow search eval can estimate deeper eval

MSmits: that would mean mcts should be strong as welll at least mcts with eval

jacek: well im using best first search and it works better than my ab

MSmits: you mean, uct guided search?

Astrobytes: Yes but the multi probcut is 'trained' offline

Scarfield: cheats!

jacek: yes. its like mcts ept but with negamaxing propagation

Astrobytes: jacekmax

MSmits: so you dont record statistics, but do the min/max thing?

Astrobytes: I think I came across this approach somewhere

MSmits: only in an uneven tree

MSmits: that is deeper in some places

MSmits: you can get some horizon effect problems in some games with this

MSmits: I have to correct for that with ept as well

MSmits: not so much in Othello though

jacek: yes. but i still final select child with most visits, not best eval score (aside from avoidiing provn loses)

MSmits: hmm ok

jacek: and yes, my bot became stronger but more blind

jacek: i started to losing to weaklings more

Astrobytes: So derogatory :P

MSmits: hehe


Astrobytes: yeah that's where I saw it

jacek: i think the line of actions guys (yes, those from mcts solver paper) use mcts-ab

MSmits: whats that

MSmits: Winands right?

Astrobytes: yeah

MSmits: fellow Dutchies

Scarfield: lol just started reading about multi-probcut... its a pruning array(?)

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: well

jacek: the same as jacekmax, but they use shalow alpha-beta instead of simple eval

MSmits: you look up stuff and then do some probability calc

MSmits: below some treshold you cut

Scarfield: then i think JaCegMax would be more fitting :p

MSmits: ceg as in cegprak?

Astrobytes: joke's been done already Out-of-the-loop-field :P

jacek: scarvolume

Astrobytes: (but yeah, totally :D )

Scarfield: :cry:


Astrobytes: lol

jacek: sleepy sleeps

Scarfield: :zzz:

jacek: why zzzz indicates sleep

Scarfield: sleepy sleeps doesntP :thinking:


Astrobytes: 'catching some z's" is the origin, but I donno the reason

Scarfield: lol kinda like the different origin stories of "ok"

Astrobytes: That's a rabbit hole not worth exploring lol

tomatoes: mosquitos

Astrobytes: hm?

Astrobytes: Oh. 'zzzzzz'

tomatoes: when you're trying to sleep they're doing bzzzzzz

Astrobytes: The worst part is when it stops.

Astrobytes: Light goes on, nearest flat object is picked up, "where is that little shit!"

MSmits: I electrocute them

MSmits: zzzzzap

Scarfield: with or without a wet sponge?

MSmits: without

MSmits: i know, it's cruel

Scarfield: savage

Astrobytes: Percy!

Astrobytes: *Poicy

MSmits: dont get either =/

Astrobytes: The Green Mile?

MSmits: yeah I saw that

MSmits: i got the sponge thing

Astrobytes: Percy... the guy that electrocutes Del without the spong

Astrobytes: e

MSmits: ohh ok

Astrobytes: "Ah din't know sponge s'posed to be wet"

Scarfield: your memory is too good

Astrobytes: I've seen that film a lot over the years.

Astrobytes: I prefer the Shawshank Redemption tbh if we're going with Stephen King adaptations

Scarfield: i have only seen it once i think, 15 years ago or something. Kung Pow i have seen 5 times though xD

Astrobytes: Yeah, I've seen that a few times too

Astrobytes: Iron Sky?

MSmits: I like Desperation, if we're talking Stephen King

MSmits: and of course. IT

Astrobytes: Did they make a movie of Desperation? (tak)

MSmits: yep

Astrobytes: I only know the book (taktak)

MSmits: i missed it too, but i found it in video rental at some point

Scarfield: yea once, but can remember almost nothing, saw it with a friend and some :writing_hand:

Astrobytes: Interesting. IT ofc is awesome

MSmits: better than you would expect of such a hard to find movie

MSmits: i like both IT movies, the first and the remake

MSmits: I really dont know which is best

Astrobytes: Same

Astrobytes: There's parts I like better in both

MSmits: you have to correct for nostalgia, some people cant let go of an earlier version so they always find it best

Astrobytes: And then I change my mind

MSmits: yeah both have parts that are better

MSmits: I did not like the spider ending of the first

Astrobytes: Book still beats any of the adaptations, but I thought the remake was worthy

MSmits: first was a bit scarier i think

Astrobytes: Was just about to say that

Astrobytes: Much darker

MSmits: yeah

Scarfield: wise penny

MSmits: I read most of stephen king i think

MSmits: they are making a new one arent they?

MSmits: arent they making lisey's story?

MSmits: that is one of the best

Astrobytes: Oh really? I didn't know that

MSmits: i vaguely remember hearing it somewhere

MSmits: might be wrong

Astrobytes: I wish they would make a decent version of the Stand

MSmits: ah yeah i read that

MSmits: that story has been done to death though

MSmits: not the stephen king one

MSmits: but general, apocalypse stories. Lately they pop up all over

Astrobytes: True, but you need the King-iness to make it special

MSmits: sure

MSmits: if they succeed. The movies are hit and miss

Astrobytes: Always

MSmits: well tbh, i havent seen that many i didnt like

Astrobytes: The Pet Sematary remake was OK I thought

MSmits: not sure if i saw that, how old is it?

Astrobytes: It had the balance of humour and darkness just right

Astrobytes: Last year

MSmits: then i didnt see it yet

Astrobytes: It's worth a watch

MSmits: will do

MSmits: i still need to watch picard

Astrobytes: It's even got John Lithgow in it

MSmits: ohhh

MSmits: cool

Astrobytes: as Jud ;)

MSmits: dont remember who jud was in the book

MSmits: been a while

Astrobytes: The old guy

MSmits: ah ok

Astrobytes: And yeah, get on Picard. Rewatching it atm, still fantastic

MSmits: would have required some serious irishman tech to make john the young guy

Astrobytes: hahaha

AntiSquid: have you tried the orville ?

MSmits: seen bits and pieces

MSmits: comedy central

MSmits: never watched full episode

Astrobytes: No, I know it though. Is it decent?

Scarfield: its actually decent

Astrobytes: Cool

Scarfield: i was pleasently suprised or how you say

MSmits: will watch it at some point

AntiSquid: not sure ... i dropped it at first few episodes, then read some reviews that the shows starts getting good around ep 5

Scarfield: very similar to star trek in. terrible acting, decent - good subjects for the plots

Astrobytes: I can do slow first episodes/series. I made it through DS9 so I can watch anything

AntiSquid: this just reminded me of Odyssey V ... show was cancelled and i was looking forward to the big reveal :/

Astrobytes: Btw, although Picard is Star Trek through and through, it's totally not. And blows most of Trek out the water.

AntiSquid: i liked that show, although it's kinda weird, random

Scarfield: how about Buck Rogers?

MSmits: Deep space 9 is my favorite ST

Astrobytes: The only Buck Rogers I liked was that song by Feeder

Astrobytes: MSmits - once the Dominion got involved it became interesting, and then magnificent by the end

MSmits: true, but i liked it before that also

AntiSquid: i only liked the original with captain kirk

AntiSquid: and the ooooooooo intro

MSmits: because compared to TNG and voyager (to a lesser extent) there is an actual storyline

Astrobytes: The first series or so were slowww though

Astrobytes: TNG developed better after Gene Roddenberry died

AntiSquid: i've read the books for the first series too

Astrobytes: Or got ill even

MSmits: yeah TNG did have some development and voyager too, but DS9 beats it

Astrobytes: He was clinging to the original series formula

AntiSquid: and the old Star Trek movies were my favorites

Astrobytes: The writers had other ideas, DS9 was an evolution of that

MSmits: I don't really like any of the star trek movies tbh

Astrobytes: I love all the ST movies

Astrobytes: old and new

Astrobytes: The old ones were a staple of my childhood!

MSmits: well they were ok i guess, but the series beat the movies for me

MSmits: babylon 5 was also a great sci fi series I think

Scarfield: was close to naming my frontier function FinalFrontier for othello

MSmits: do it

MSmits: it will pefrorm better

Astrobytes: I saw The Final Frontier, The Undiscovered Country (v and VI), Generations, First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis in the cinema

MSmits: oh I did like first contact

MSmits: the only one i saw multiple times i thin

Astrobytes: Insurrection is OK, Nemesis was messy but had good plotlines on the go - Picard follows on from the final events of that btw so you might wanna give it a watch

MSmits: nemesis?

Astrobytes: The last TNG movie

MSmits: sure

MSmits: will do that then

Astrobytes: I enjoyed the more recent ones too actually

Astrobytes: But prefer the older ones

AntiSquid: does the new Kirk fit his role?

Astrobytes: I thought he captured it pretty well


Astrobytes: hahaha

AntiSquid: star trek 4 was planned for this year can't find if it's cancelled

Astrobytes: Yeah, gotta wait for next series of Picard too

Astrobytes: I never got on with the newer series of ST they made, Enterprise and Discovery

MSmits: Enterprise was not halfbad. I did not like discovery

Astrobytes: Enterprise was worth it just for Scott Bakula, keep expecting Al to pop up with his cigar

MSmits: lol yeah

MSmits: quantum leap right?

Astrobytes: Yeah :D

MSmits: I never watched that show fully, in order, but it popped up on our tv sometimes when i was young

Astrobytes: Ziggy wasn't it? The little computer thingy

MSmits: vaguely remember that

Astrobytes: Yeah, I watched it cause my mum and dad did

Astrobytes: Hated the theme tune for Enterprise though

AntiSquid: have you seen Andromeda

Astrobytes: Yeah, didn't really dig it at all tbh

AntiSquid: i liked the first 80% of it i think

AntiSquid: up to the Abyss nonsense

Astrobytes: I guess it was better than EArth: Final Conflict

MSmits: mmh where do i watch picard?

MSmits: i tried cbs but they want a zipcode thats valid and mine apparently isnt

MSmits: i guess it's US only

Astrobytes: I think I got it from 1337

MSmits: whats that

Astrobytes: well, I pirated it, put it that way

MSmits: ohh ok

Astrobytes: Torrents

MSmits: right

MSmits: i havent done that in a long time

Astrobytes: Try before you buy!

AntiSquid: lots of good sci-fi stories that never made it to the screen and it's hard to dig for them, especially when everyone has their own preferences and therefore you can't ask anyone for advice @_@

MSmits: brb

AntiSquid: biased opinion

Astrobytes: I'll watch anything tbh, then decide

AntiSquid: did you read Nightfall?

Astrobytes: Sometimes you get a recommendation that's good for you

AntiSquid: if yes then check the movie out and be amazed how much they managed to trash a good book

Astrobytes: Asimov?

AntiSquid: what site do you use for recommendations

AntiSquid: yes Asimov

AntiSquid: see a lot of people hate Asimov and his style

Astrobytes: Yeah I did, I've read most of his stuff. Never heard about the movie. They're doing Foundation now I think

AntiSquid: because "it's too simple" , he didn't open the metaphor floodgate

Astrobytes: I only take recommendations from people I speak to/know

Astrobytes: Otherwise I decide by myself

Astrobytes: It's good to keep an open mind

AntiSquid: Clarkesworldmagazine is a perfect example of what i consider not-real-sci-fi, pretentious bs writing

MSmits: i did read foundation

AntiSquid: and whenever i try a new "sci-fi" book that popular, i often end up remembering that site

Astrobytes: Yeah I don't bother with all that crap AntiSquid, as long as you can find new releases etc it's good. Pay no mind to that opinionated drivel

Astrobytes: Same goes for reviews of most things tbh

AntiSquid: that's not it, i am just saying i have difficulties finding what (imo) is real sci-fi

MSmits: what is real sci fo?

MSmits: fi?

AntiSquid: because a lot of stuff takes on that label

Astrobytes: Yeah, good luck. It used to be a simple case of go to the library, enter scifi section

Astrobytes: Nowadays genres are merged

AntiSquid: MSmits maybe you have more luck than me or you enjoy different kind of books, but i come across fantasy stuff labeled as sci-fi, or stories that just contain some futuristic electric devices used in personal household but the story focuses on something completely different and comes across as reading a completely different genre

Astrobytes: Teen vampire goes to space = scifi. That sort of crap

MSmits: fantasy really should not be labeled sci fi

MSmits: though some books are in both genres

MSmits: try the coldfire trilogy

MSmits: one of the best series i ever read

MSmits: it's very like a fantasy series but with a strong sci fi backdrop

Astrobytes: Must say, even though the guy's a total dick and it's not really my thing, I actually enjoyed the Legacy of the Aldenata series by John Ringo (military scifi)

Astrobytes: (aka Posleen War series)

MSmits: will check that out

Astrobytes: Miss out the Cally's War books and Watch on the Rhine

MSmits: sure, I'll probably just read the main stories, unless

MSmits: I really like them

Astrobytes: (side-stories and spinoffs, some are good but those are naff)

Default avatar.png macobo: Ooh, book suggestions!

Astrobytes: It's quite heavy on the military gung-ho stuff, but good storylines

Default avatar.png macobo: Let me contribute: The Sword of Kaigen is one of the best fantasy books I've read in recent years.

MSmits: Black company series is awesome

Astrobytes: Shall check the chat history later, I'm out for tonight guys

MSmits: by Glen cook

Astrobytes: gn all

MSmits: gn Astrobytes

AntiSquid: gn

dmoa: absolute bullshit

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: ?

Default avatar.png mohsinalipro: yeah!

Default avatar.png mohsinalipro: i am new to the

ismailkarsli: Ok looks like im a stupid according to this site

Default avatar.png Joe_no_name: how do I read debug messages? Could somebody explain alittle?

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: @ismailkarsli why?

ismailkarsli: @pedrosorio because im staring like "hamster staring at camera" meme

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: that does mean you're stupid, probably just unfamiliar with the kind of problem you are looking at

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: does not mean*

ismailkarsli: First one makes more sense :D Thanks for the morale. I hope I could improve

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: sure, what kind of problem are you looking at?

ismailkarsli: It was like finding midpoint of two coordinates

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: did you manage to solve it?

ismailkarsli: Nope, i didn't know how to do it. Looks like i was should divide the x and y coordinates to 2 or something like that

ismailkarsli: Yep, I was should add the x and y coordinates and divide them by 2.

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: yep

tecnosam: hello

Default avatar.png mogzhey: hi

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: hi

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: my 100th clash of code

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: woohoo

Laminator: leggo

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: leggo?

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: I'm convinced some people don't understand the goal of "shortest mode" in clash of code (e.g. @JayEm94 and @MathieuGanesan )

johnny1man: rude?

Default avatar.png dantheking-crypto: lol

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: the only other possibility is they hate that mode so much that they just implement something as quick as possible and submit

Laminator: It was my least favorite mode for a while. But it also ended up being the mode I learned the most from. I love it now whenever good programmers share their code.

remi6: pedrosorio, they are bots, check their profile.

Laminator: wow fuck some of them reverse problems

itzblinkzy: hate those

itzblinkzy: i can only do the predictable and ez ones

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: I wish there were more of those and fewer of the shortest mode

itzblinkzy: i prefer fastest mode

itzblinkzy: i dont want golfed code im trying to learn

Kariin: idc as long as it's not math problems

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: and just after I said that got a 3rd place in a reverse problem lol

itzblinkzy: yeah i cant do math problems

itzblinkzy: im bad at math :pensive:

itzblinkzy: ngoc please share your code if you please

Laminator: I always thought math and programming were hand in hand. But I've met a lot of programmers that hate math. Can't really empathize. I like both lol