Chat:World/2020-07-21

RealJasomo: y'all should press share code more

fachryadhitya: hi

jacek: aww

fatboysticks: Hi, can someone tell me why it's important to have the mountain height if you just need the index?

Uljahn: to compare and select the highest?

pedrosorio: best time ever

Dlx: and why can't I get to finish my code when the clash is over, come on... I bet 95% of people here care most about solving it, not really winning it... so unsatisfying that i copied my code and finished it in a jupyter notebook lol

pedrosorio: that's pretty lame, they should let you go back

Dlx: yep..

pedrosorio: and run the test cases

Dlx: hello admin, fix it ;p

Dlx: I just staret codingame, it's pretty fun :D just bitchin about some minor stuff...

Dlx: isn't there a suggestion box here...

pedrosorio: submitted to early

Dlx: Also, best score/most tests passed should count, not randomly last test run or last code... and also, frigging warn 60 seconds left with red flashing :)

Dlx: Dang I'm doing this coding style for my next pair programming... will be working so fast and dirty on first pass that buddy will have no chanse to follow what I'm doing, just for fun, and then refactor refactor refactor after ;p

Uljahn: Automaton2000: fix it

Automaton2000: what if you could do a better job

Dlx: what, lol :)

fachryadhitya: :worried:

_Feri_: hi

Balki: hi

Balki: fatboysticks because 1 shot doesnt destroy the mountain entirely and you need to shoot the highest

MSmits: morning

MSmits: guys, I have an othello version that can take dbdr off nr 1

MSmits: it just wont be me up there, but tric trac :P

dbdr: stats?

MSmits: 25% win vs you, 11% vs tric trac

dbdr: OK, what do you want MSmits? ;)

dbdr: oh

MSmits: nothing, i am not submitting this :P

MSmits: its just funny

dbdr: I thought you were over 50% against me

MSmits: no

MSmits: but i can spam you down :P

dbdr: but I would just need to resub, no?

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: its often like that

dbdr: check what trictrac offers you ;)

MSmits: lol

MSmits: i have no idea why btw, i just try to fit the params and these versions pop up

dbdr: right

MSmits: it also does 50% vs jacek which is ok, but does poorly vs Robo

dbdr: probably hits a blind spot

MSmits: yeah

dbdr: an opening bool would probably help with that

MSmits: win = true ?

dbdr: ?

MSmits: an opening bool

dbdr: book :D

MSmits: hehe

MSmits: yeah that would probably help yes

MSmits: how much space do you have left?

MSmits: opening books dont require that much space if you're selective with what you put in

dbdr: I could probably compress source more if needed

MSmits: ahh ok

dbdr: and yes, a targeted book would be small

whay: i love axis

MSmits: btw this does assume your error happens in the first 20 plies or so

dbdr: given my lead, I'm happier to have a compiled version ppl can test against

dbdr: indeed

dbdr: I've also looked at binary compression

whay: you

dbdr: interesting rabbit hole

MSmits: though it's not unlikely. My bot is not very good compared to yours so it should be making mistakes fairly soon

whay: you have boot?

MSmits: you probably wont even get near your mistake when you make a book, because you already exploit an earlier one of mine

MSmits: yeah compression is interesting

MSmits: I was looking at the EDAX eval and figuring out if i could compress that

MSmits: but its just a tad bit too large I think

dbdr: I was talking about compressing the executable

MSmits: ohh ok

MSmits: well you have to be able to decompress and run any other precalculation in 2 seconds right?

dbdr: right

dbdr: decompression is usually fast forCG-sizes, unless you go into NN type compression :)

MSmits: whats different about that?

dbdr: the (de)compressor is a NN

MSmits: ohh ok

dbdr: are you CG-vacationing? :)

whay: listen

whay: wait

MSmits: pretty much, i do have 2 things I have to do for work, but most of the time will be CG

whay: you can listen me

MSmits: I was on vacation last week

dbdr: I thought you were traveling

dbdr: ah ok

dbdr: that's why it took so long ;)

MSmits: my wife tells me not to advertise it online because of burglary

MSmits: i was actually working on othello during my vacation :P

dbdr: :D

MSmits: most importantly I made stuff into AVX

whay: you have wife

dbdr: it's true your real life collides with C because of your students, right?

MSmits: with C?

dbdr: CG

MSmits: oh

MSmits: hmm rarely yes

MSmits: might happen more often in the future

dbdr: collisions with C are dangerous, because it does not have much safety features ;)

MSmits: that's true I guess

MSmits: the students i get here are really not that type though

MSmits: CG is more used as an extracurricular activity

MSmits: since they're mostly not good enough to do stuff here

MSmits: it's funny, I had one student here a week or two ago that wasn't even in my CS class, I taught him physics

MSmits: he didn't pick CS because the previous curriculum seemed too easy for him

jacek: im still at figuring out what patterns would be useful

jacek: dbdr your 300k weights, those are NTuples?

MSmits: jacek why not look at edax

jacek: edax too complicated

whay: hi

MSmits: not really, there is 1 pattern you wont be able to fit

whay: hi

MSmits: you can fit 9-tuples, 10 is too much

MSmits: also edax has different eval for every ply

jacek: 3^9?

MSmits: just dont do that

whay: :angry:

MSmits: yeah jacek

MSmits: 3^9 bytes is doable

jacek: that would require fancy compression

MSmits: that's 10k characters

MSmits: fits

jacek: it has just one 3^9?

MSmits: one or two, not too many

jacek: is it 3x3 corner?

MSmits: think it might be yes

MSmits: eval.c is the file

MSmits: you can find out yourself

jacek: my preliminary results didnt show much gain

whay: msmits telle me

jacek: but perhaps i need to gib more training to it

MSmits: maybe

MSmits: how fast is your bot with that eval?

MSmits: how many states does it eval?

jacek: 30k evals per turn

jacek: 145ms

MSmits: ahh, so somewhere between Robo and mine

MSmits: kind of a halfway NN

jacek: 4 8x1 patterns, 16 lookups

jacek: + mobiility and frontiers

MSmits: Robo: 3k, you: 30k, me; 1 million

jacek: work smarter not faster

MSmits: exactly

MSmits: mobility and frontiers I tought is supposed to be replaced by your eval?

MSmits: thought

MSmits: i think edax does just his ntuples

jacek: it improved the strength

jacek: perhaps those see game as global and patterns are more local

MSmits: might be because the ntuples just arent trained enough, or the patterns not complicated enough

MSmits: could be your approach is best for CG

MSmits: limits

jacek: the perks of machine learning. you dont know if there is bug in the code, or just training framework is bad, or you need to tweak the hyperparameters or change the model whatsoever

MSmits: yeah that seems annoying

jacek: and i recall tdgammon gained strength too when they added mroe advanced features to the raw board network

MSmits: your argument about global vs local makes a lot of sense

MSmits: mobility especially

MSmits: because all it does is give you more choices

MSmits: i dunno about frontiers though, havent been able to make it work very well.

MSmits: i am refittign mobility now, will try frontiers after, it's at a low value

jacek: it works for me, it always gives quite big negative weight

MSmits: hmm ok

MSmits: it's at -100 now for me. With mobility at +900

MSmits: probably i just havent explored it enough

MSmits: it's probably heavily correlated with mobility also

MSmits: might need to fit them together

jacek: its -0.057, while mobility is +0.11

MSmits: ok so half the size

MSmits: will try that later

jacek: ymmv of course

MSmits: all the versions I get lately are mostly strong against you and Renard, weak against the rest. Maybe telling me this helps you :P

jacek: and yes, those 9 are 3x3 corners

MSmits: ahh ok

MSmits: the smaller ones may be of interest?

MSmits: the release section also has a dat file with actual fitted values if you can decipher it

jacek: could be, so far i dont have any diagonals

MSmits: you might have to pick ply 20 or 30 or so

MSmits: because it is fitted by ply

MSmits: they use 16 bit values

MSmits: but the largest value is 2k something, so divide everything by 10.3 if i remember correctly

MSmits: assuming you use bytes

MSmits: I might have gone too far down this rabbit hole on my vacation :P

jacek: i fell in NN rabbit hole and i cant get out

YCS-Venom: me too :)

DanielWebb: Hey, does anyone know where I would report an issue with a puzzle? (one where the expected output is actually wrong for the input)

beyonik: why do my test cases keep expecting Nothing sometimes and other times they expect what I output

MSmits: low expectations?

MSmits: you obviously have a bug

beyonik: what bug

beyonik: how is it my fault

MSmits: and it can be many things

beyonik: that the test cases sometimes expect Nothing

beyonik: and other times they expect something

MSmits: i dont think they expected nothing, maybe your input/output is not synced?

MSmits: as in, you provide output when you havent gotten new input yet

MSmits: also, i dont know which puzzle or multi this is

Astrobytes: Or an extra newline, missing newline, one answer when multiple are expected, the list goes on...

MSmits: so its hard to comment

MSmits: what Astrobytes said

Astrobytes: But of course, it's the puzzle that has the bug. Clearly.

MSmits: thats probably it, something like that

beyonik: It surely wasn't newlines

beyonik: also they only expected one answer

beyonik: not multiple

MSmits: link the puzzle

beyonik: thing is I tried it for the first time, it didnt work, then I tried it again to see if I fixed my bug and it started just expecting "Nothing"

Astrobytes: Yes, it does that when your output is incorrect.

jacek: wooo another cat avatar

zjzoloo: :joy:

jacek: MSmits do you expand every children at once? as in, eval every children at once?

MSmits: I do yes

MSmits: That seems often better even when you do a full random rollout

MSmits: so it makes sense that it would be better for a quick eval also

jacek: so how do you count visits then

MSmits: visits += childCount

jacek: oh

MSmits: well you get the point

jacek: then in that case i have rather 300k games, not 30k

MSmits: ahh ok, that makes more sense if your eval is fast

MSmits: btw:

MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/aa016d8e-4989-4f0e-be24-f7d2b5f77b83

MSmits: to be more precise

maddoggg: print("Hi")

daeun: hi

GoAsT: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/1302824921383d3b9f8e0b4d155c1451af12a69

hoxy: hello

daeun: i'm korean

daeun: python is difficult

tomatoes: its sometimes weird, but not difficult

daeun: thank you.

jrke: can anyone make me explain movement of ant in langton's ant?

itzblinkzy: share code please

jacek: oO

Illedan: jrke, I have no idea why you have such low time in SR :( But I heard others complained in other games too..

jrke: yeah dunno why i can use only 37-38ms

jrke: there is bug in csb also maybe i can use only 55-60ms in csb also :(

Illedan: I guess something CG did, added some weird overhead on the bots :shrug:

jacek: welcome scarfield

jrke: np i will manage something

Crypticsy: hey is anyone here really really good in bash?

Scarfield: :wave:

jacek: is anyone ever good in bash?

Crypticsy: XD

jrke: btw how much time you are using in SR illedian

Scarfield: the level just increased by a lot

Crypticsy: so one guy tried solving my Van Eck's sequence puzzle and pointed out that he couldn't pass the final test

Crypticsy: i tried myself but couldn't either

Crypticsy: would you give it a try and tell me if it is possible?

Crypticsy: (in bash)

Crypticsy: anyone?

Illedan: jrke, what do you mean by time? Time to create it? Time to play it myself?

jrke: i mean like im using 37-38ms.

Illedan: Ah, I use 35 ms

jrke: hmm

Illedan: My code usually converges way faster anyway..

jacek: java? maybe too long warmup or gc

wlesavo: Crypticsy the last one requires optimized performance, last test works fine

Crypticsy: so you solved it in bash?

wlesavo: oh, sry, didnt notice bash

Crypticsy: XD also i am the one who created it

wlesavo: oh lol

wlesavo: i need to learn reading at some point

Crypticsy: yeah and i need to learn to explain bettter

itfibonacci: start it man

itzblinkzy: SHARE YOUR CODE!!

ARatherLongUsername: prech itzblinkzy

Logiman09: What dis?

AbundantPuddle: Dis codingame.

_Akira_: how do you friend request someone?

pedrosorio: friends are just people you follow who also follow you afaik

macobo: stalker^2

dtinth: gets

dtinth: oops, the chat pops up while I am in CoC

dtinth: it moves the focus to the chat input, which is a bit unfortunate

AbundantPuddle: Yes, that has happened to me as well.

AbundantPuddle: I believe it is intentional to keep you on your toes.

macobo: Thanks for sharing the code, dtinth :bow: Learned a lot :)

whay: hi

whay: i have chanel

itzblinkzy: whay why you keep quitting clashes how will you learn

itzblinkzy: give it a try at least

whay: what do you mean

whay: :star_and_crescent:

whay: level up

jacek: :tada:

whay: thanx

whay: :hugging:

macobo: Woop, top 100 in CoC

jacek: good for you

Astrobytes: good submit for robo in Oware

eulerscheZahl: top 2500 in CoC :trophy:

dbdr: top NaN in CoC

eulerscheZahl: you didn't play a single clash?

dbdr: nope

dbdr: should I?

Astrobytes: Nah

eulerscheZahl: not much interesting content you are missing out

eulerscheZahl: except for the ascii value challenges

dbdr: it'll be needed for the quest map though

DomiKo: i wish there was no "shortest mode"

eulerscheZahl: i an live with a not completed quest map on my profile page

eulerscheZahl: an => can

Astrobytes: hacker.org had a quest map of sorts iirc

dbdr: it might block progress

dbdr: https://forum.codingame.com/uploads/default/original/3X/4/6/46676874ed9d718c72e12a6767621d5c77c649d7.jpeg

dbdr: not a Power User without CoC ;)

dbdr: (that was a prototype, of course)

macobo: hacker.org was super fun, I guess it's dead though.

eulerscheZahl: https://imgur.com/a/3T4w7IG

eulerscheZahl: i miss hacker.org :(

eulerscheZahl: countless hours of challenges

dbdr: pretty

eulerscheZahl: i learned a lot of stuff there. like sending web requests or image manipulation

macobo: Spiral bits drives me mad still :)

eulerscheZahl: that one was quite easy for me, once i finally unlocked it :D

eulerscheZahl: define start cell. then always flood fill to find the next bit. expand from the center of that region to find the nearest interesting color of another bit

macobo: Doing that, the grainy image is providing headaches though :)

eulerscheZahl: http://www.hacker.org/challenge/img/spiral3.png that was the crazy one :D

macobo: I think I'm off by ~20 bits or smth and too lazy to struggle through :D

macobo: lol :)

eulerscheZahl: after spiral bits there are some more fun ones. like a zip file with 4800 small images. you have to assemble them together to a large image

eulerscheZahl: just to unlock a harder version with about 18k pieces

eulerscheZahl: but these puzzles were always easier for me than the obscure crypto/stegano ones

eulerscheZahl: http://www.hacker.org/challenge/img/the-maths.png this one was cool too, having an extra twist after you solve the first part of it

oogabooga1: is there a tutorial/suggested reading/whatever to get started with the bots' programming games? I don't even know how to start!

JBM: just avoid csb

DomiKo: 1. pick the game 2. do your best 3. read forum

oogabooga1: ty, is there some suggested challenges to tackle on first? or I just choose randomly hoping I don't get stuck,lol

jacek: csb can be done with few ifs up to gold

pedrosorio: what is csb?

jacek: https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming/coders-strike-back

DomiKo: pick something you like

DomiKo: that would be the best choice

jacek: i.e. paper soccer :v

Astrobytes: Naturally :smirk:

pinarica: CSB is super fun!

jacek: O:

AbundantPuddle: Clever TNtube

TNtube: ?

TNtube: Yes what ?

AbundantPuddle: Your answer on the clash. It was clever.

TNtube: Thx

TNtube: What was the exercice ?

TNtube: I forgoted it xD

SirTarragon: Is there a way to grab the opponents distance to his checkpoint for csb?

JakeCubes: how does and AND work?

SirTarragon: && works as if (x1 == x2 AND y1 == y2) then when both x1 == x2 and y1 == y2 are true, then what's inside the if statement will run.

SirTarragon: Otherwise it won't.

SirTarragon: if(x1==x2 && y1 == y2)

jrke: good mningor

jrke: *morning

SirTarragon: Ugh was just doing the Power of Thor Episode 1, was trying to figure out what was wrong. Just read that X, Y starts in the top left instead of bottom left so had to change some calculations around wooo

SirTarragon: Mainly flip alot of my newYs from += to -= and the opposite

jokzyz: yo what is dn aio everybody keeps talking about it

el19oc: deez nuts

jacek: hmm