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Default avatar.png bartekkowalski: bruh what is lua

Default avatar.png pinarica: roblox

Default avatar.png bartekkowalski: huh

Default avatar.png pinarica: its used in roblox to for user generated content

Default avatar.png bartekkowalski: I swear half of these programming languages are like almost the same but like on little difference just to piss everyone off

Default avatar.png pinarica: syntax is half the battle I guess, for better or worse, I think its for the best

Default avatar.png bartekkowalski: yeah i guess

jrke: is there any thing like input().split() in c++

Marchete: hmm has thor codegolf changed?

Marchete: nvm read the forum

jrke: code golf you mean power of thor?

Marchete: yes

jrke: ah! yes i got up and saw an increase in my rank of power of thor automatically i was shocked and later i discovered the change ;)

jrke: but whats the change?

Marchete: different validators

jrke: k

Default avatar.png pinarica: cant seem to get past one of the sudoku validators and the only things hardcoded in my code would be the for loop iterators

Default avatar.png pinarica: subgrid error validator

Default avatar.png pinarica: when I submit it fails with the testcases it does not, I have barely anything harcoded

Default avatar.png AggYzz: imagine using a low level langugae for shortest code

whay: hi

Default avatar.png AggYzz: bye

whay: what do you man

whay: wait

Default avatar.png AggYzz: why ddo you woman

whay: wait

Default avatar.png AggYzz: sleep

whay: what is your name

jacek: good morning

WINWINWIN: pinarica, I know that it is a late response, but I think the reason for the sudoku error is that you are checking sum of row and column to 45

WINWINWIN: But there may be a validator that sums to 45 but does not satisfy the 123456789 requirement.

DomiKo: good morning

whay: hi

whay: you can tellr me

HDit: hôm nay là thứ 7

HuynhNgocHai: Hello

HuynhNgocHai: Hôm nay là thứ 7

whay: hi

whay: how can help tyou

Astrobytes: HDit, HuynhNgocHai: please speak English in World chat, you can create your own channel if you like

Edjy: Dear codingamers, I NEED YOU ! I need help to finish my CG logo here :,15 (it is not hard and doesn't take too much time) you just have to place one or two pixels

Astrobytes: Edjy: Please do not spam the chat with off-site links

Edjy: ok

jacek: thats edgy

DiL: Hi everyone! I think I found a "bugged" clash: my solution doesn't pass all tests (one is failing for timeout) but got 100% score. What's the best way to fix it?

Uljahn: forget about it and go on

Uljahn: timeout could be caused by debug mode of your language or by different CPU

Default avatar.png TonAtHere: HI guys where do i can learn about lua?

aCat: TonAtHere I suppose there is no a lua course available I could recommend right away

aCat: Depends do you know how to program or not

aCat: I would simply advise doing some stuff and forcing yourself to do it in lua

aCat: Like codingame puzzle - and search lua docs and web for solutions 'how to write some construction'

aCat: lua is quite specific language, if you want to know something specific - or need to know it for writing plugin for some game you can as me some dicrect questions

itzblinkzy: share your code please

itzblinkzy: :cry:

jrke: whats the fastest record for testcase 1 in search race ?

abraaobarros: Hi, guys. I posted my code on github. link: :thumbsup: .

abraaobarros: I will try to improve with loops. feedbacks and pr's are welcome

Zenoscave: I'm not sure code sharing in a competitive setting like this is encouraged.

Default avatar.png macobo: At some point you will hit a ceiling trying to learn without external feedback.

Default avatar.png macobo: Sharing code and learning from what others have shared is one way to overcome that.

abraaobarros: exactly

Zenoscave: I absolutely agree. Except that this is an ongoing competition. Sharing small ideas and snippets is fine but an entire solution is generally frowned upon

Zenoscave: as a heads up, if it were an actively ranking current competition that would be a definite disqualification. It has happened in the past

SPDene: I don't know where you get that idea from. A huge benefit of this site s being able to learn from looking at code that someone shared.

Zenoscave: Perhaps the owner's stance on the difference between puzzles and ongoing challenges, and my years spent here where this topic is repeated many times is where I get the idea from

SPDene: ok, next time I share my code, I'll bear in mind that the owner may disqualify me from playing CoC ever again /s

Zenoscave: I don't mean to discourage sharing or learning. Just the modicum in which it was presented. Sharing ideas is a wonderful thing. SPDene this wasn't about CoC...

Zenoscave: I was referring to the Code of the rings code posted earlier

Default avatar.png macobo: Oops. Sorry for pouring oil on the fire here, was lacking context. :bow: Indeed, this case it might be murkier, though I'd expect to be a explicit T&C if it's discouraged.

Zenoscave: But do realize that even in CoC people scrape solutions to use as their own with a bot. It is encouraged to share but also be aware of its ramifications

Zenoscave: The forums have many resources discussing it. but, yeah, a T&C would be nice



Zenoscave: F.A.Q. ^^^

DiL: why would someone use a bot to play CoC?

WINWINWIN: To win continuously :)

Default avatar.png macobo: because imaginary internet points?

DiL: and... so? :-) is it funny?

itzblinkzy: how boring

blueman34: I suggest reading lua documentation.

ANONYMOUS42: i suck at ruby

blueman34: I suck at everything.

blueman34: :c

Default avatar.png macobo: That's the first step to getting better o/

MSmits: except for the sucking part. He can only get worse at sucking from this point on

Default avatar.png macobo: Eh, if you work hard enough...

MSmits: I think you misunderstand me

Default avatar.png macobo: :D I'm not sure I do.

MSmits: He sucks at everything. He is the absolute top at it. It cannot get better

MSmits: it can only get worse

MSmits: so he will get better at everything except sucking

Default avatar.png macobo: Unknown unknowns getting revealed ;)

MSmits: exactly

itzblinkzy: im okay at coding but im so baad at math its annoys me

itzblinkzy: :pensive:

blueman34: im the opposite

blueman34: bad coder

blueman34: good mather

DomiKo: you can use to improve math skill

ANONYMOUS42: team up and you can be good at both

LoGos: or bad at both

blueman34: yes

LoGos: I mean if you combined them

blueman34: im so close to sloving this clash of code

blueman34: but i hate lua

blueman34: such a restricted lang

whay: hi

blueman34: i trying to figure out of to round up a decimal

whay: hiiiii

whay: telle me

ANONYMOUS42: are you trying some fancy interval maths or just using an array lol

ANONYMOUS42: don't think it would be better in term of code length like that though

whay: Damn you answer me

blueman34: yes


blueman34: because

blueman34: its a shortest mode

blueman34: so

blueman34: rip

whay: :rage:

whay: answer me

whay: hi

blueman34: i got 50%

Default avatar.png bartekkowalski: what

blueman34: even though i managed to get 3/4 correct :/

whay: i got 25

Default avatar.png bartekkowalski: lmao rip

whay: fuk you

blueman34: should've been 75%

Default avatar.png macobo: public test cases != scoring test cases

DomiKo: that's right

blueman34: i mean 3/4 is 75% so

Default avatar.png sveder: 0


Default avatar.png Schwase: no blueman, 3/4 = 0

jacek: so mathy

ANONYMOUS42: 3//4=0

DomiKo: oh wow just found minus error in MCTS


DomiKo: Monte Carlt Tree Search


ANONYMOUS42: ah ok

DomiKo: Monte Carlo Tree Search*

DomiKo: sign error are the funniest

jacek: aww

Default avatar.png bartekkowalski: bruh what is this

Default avatar.png Truntaler: czesc

DomiKo: ohhh yes top50 in UTTT

DomiKo: one wrong sign = one day of debuging

DomiKo: oh yes

jacek: what did you say? i cant see that low

DomiKo: :<

MSmits: grats DomiKo

DomiKo: now time for Othello

MSmits: yeah!

MSmits: been fitting parameters myself these last few days :P

MSmits: no new submit yet though

MSmits: getting some rare wins vs dbd r now

MSmits: 5-10%

DomiKo: wow

MSmits: well the emphasis is on rare

MSmits: but before I was winning 0 out of 100 so... progress :)

itzblinkzy: damn it share your code please i've only been coding for a week and some of these questions are so hard :pensive:

MSmits: are you talking about clash?

itzblinkzy: only way I can learn are from other people who solved it

itzblinkzy: yes clash

MSmits: but clashes are easier than easy puzzles

MSmits: i've never done a clash myself

Astrobytes: I fixed some Othello bugs, I'm coming for you all. Very slowly.

MSmits: but that's what I've been told

MSmits: gj Astrobytes :)

DomiKo: clashes sometimes are tricky

DomiKo: or the text is really not clear

MSmits: then they are just bad

MSmits: if not clear

DomiKo: yap

MSmits: should be edited

jacek: well reverse mode are not clear :<

itzblinkzy: well thats the point

Astrobytes: Forgot to change my aspiration window size, was pruning almost everything lol

MSmits: the problem statement should never be the issue

MSmits: whats an aspiration window size

Astrobytes: the size of my aspiration window

Astrobytes: :P

MSmits: ohhh right of course

MSmits: thanks for that clarification

jacek: but in aspiration window you re-search when out of bounds eh

MSmits: :grin:

Astrobytes: yes

MSmits: is this like PVS?

MSmits: or null window

Astrobytes: null window is related yeah

MSmits: I see

MSmits: did you fix your TT?

MSmits: a good way to check if it works is if you solve sooner

MSmits: with yavalath i solve sooner with TT on

Astrobytes: I removed it for the time being until I fix everything else

Astrobytes: Got some time off from the desk job this week so hopefully have some time to work on things

MSmits: cool

MSmits: Othello has some serious RPS

MSmits: like Oware, very similar

eulerscheZahl: "Forgot to change my aspiration window size, was pruning almost everything lol" have you tried chokudai search? :P

MSmits: I have versions with 60% winrate vs Robo

MSmits: and this:

MSmits: 19:43:39,434 INFO Temporary results for othello.cpp (ETA : 11 minutes) :

MSmits: so I get to pick who I do good against... once again :P

eulerscheZahl: is that win a rust timeout?

Astrobytes: chokudai... that's that beam searching DFS thingy right?

MSmits: no

MSmits: it's actual wins

MSmits: 5-10% vs dbdr

eulerscheZahl: beam search with iterative widening instead of deepening

MSmits: dbdr uploaded a compiled version I believe

dbdr: :scream: :D

Astrobytes: ah yeah

eulerscheZahl: now you pinged him, see what you've done

Astrobytes: nice work MSmits

DomiKo: really nice

MSmits: lol thats ok

MSmits: he doesnt mind

dbdr: I don't mind pings

eulerscheZahl: then invite him to CoC

MSmits: jacek also has some wins vs dbdr

dbdr: using a book MSmits?

MSmits: no

MSmits: just fitting params

MSmits: this is not a submitted version

dbdr: right

MSmits: I have less than 10 params I am fitting. All the usual stuff you find about Othello

MSmits: corners, edges, stable cells, mobility, frontier etc. Everything has a param

Astrobytes: Got your frontiers working now then

MSmits: No idea

MSmits: I havent fitted it yet

Astrobytes: ah right

MSmits: it's just in there with a param of 100

jacek: use TDL luke

MSmits: maybe it hurts me

MSmits: jacek I will if I get some good example code

MSmits: I have no idea where to start on TDL

jacek: star from the beginning

MSmits: show me the beginning :)

MSmits: how did you learn?

Astrobytes: He did the maffs innit

jacek: started with tic tac toe

MSmits: the maffs?

Astrobytes: (maths)

MSmits: o

MSmits: jacek that sounds like you were doing a NN?

jacek: once again i dont like fancy math

MSmits: TDL is also just about fitting a few params, it doesnt have to be a NN does it?

Astrobytes: All those squiggles...

jacek: i have NN only for oware

jacek: yes, tdl can fit other params

MSmits: ok but what params did you fit for TTT?

jacek: aside from N tuples i have frontiers and mobility, and it alaways show frontiers are bad

MSmits: most times i hear about people doing learning for TTT it's a NN or Q learning or something

jacek: i used 3x1 N tuples for tic tac toe

MSmits: ohh ok ntuples

jacek: but for real start, i used direct table

jacek: unsurpisingly, it learned to play perfectly then

MSmits: direct table means every boardstate has a param?

MSmits: 0-8?

jacek: yes. generaly hashmap

jacek: board state -> win/lose

MSmits: oh ok, well that works too

MSmits: action vs state

jacek: 19683 possible states, while not much, this is not the point to learn every possible state and its value

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: tell me about it, the number 19683 appears A LOT in my uttt bot :P

jacek: with 8 3x1 Ntuples, x2 (for each player), so 8 * 54 = 432 weights it still can play perfectly

MSmits: sure

MSmits: there are ways to play perfectly with far fewer params I am sure

MSmits: but its a good way to test

jacek: at the very least, you can see if the code is good

MSmits: did you start from someone elses pseudo/example code? Or did you start from explanation/math ?

jacek: from explanation

MSmits: well good job, thats not easy

MSmits: hope I have the patience to figure it out that way as well

jacek: well now i have framework for training, which i used to train oware, othello and onitama

jacek: you can see the results

MSmits: I see it yeah

MSmits: funny thing btw, for a day or two I was convinced you had an opening book because your bot seemed deterministic on oware, for like 20 plies

MSmits: and it also seemed to always make the best move according to my meta mcts

MSmits: then it suddenly changed its 2nd ply move

MSmits: it rarely plays 11 instead of 7

MSmits: as you would say

MSmits: so it's not a book

MSmits: it's just really good

Astrobytes: It is rather excellent

MSmits: I can counter book it rather easily in the sense that it's super deterministic, but I have to find a mistake first and i havent

MSmits: Also, when I put my book in, my bot played worse =/

whay: hi

jacek: it may be a little nondeterministic, i randomly add +/- 0.02 to UCB

MSmits: the reason is, I think, that my book currently finds the 1 reply on 2nd ply better than the 5 and all my params are fitted for 5

MSmits: jacek it really isnt, your bot is super deterministic

MSmits: there are only 5 moves to choose from and usually only 1 or 2 are even worth considering

MSmits: so it's not surprising most good bots will be deterministic

jacek: and yet you pulled me below robo :(

MSmits: Robo's bot is also very very good, I have the same problem when trying to counterbook him

Astrobytes: So narrow

MSmits: I can beat recurse and agade without book currently, or at least around 50%. But nothing works well against robo and you jacek

MSmits: my current version has no book btw. I just tried it once

Astrobytes: Is it helpful?

MSmits: but i got losses against lower players

MSmits: no because its not compatible with my overfitted paramns

MSmits: i will choose a different opening

Astrobytes: Ah ok

MSmits: if the book gets deeper and i refit params, it might work

MSmits: there's a chance my bot just performs poorly in the 7-20 seed region. In that case no book will help me

Astrobytes: Maybe a case of finding the right weight for the book moves vs the rest of your params

whay: hiiii

jacek: ohai

Astrobytes: whay, do you have anything useful to say other than 'hi'?

MSmits: Astrobytes there is no weight for my book moves. I simply play them

Astrobytes: That's not always optimal MSmits

MSmits: why not?

Astrobytes: In your case, your eval is sometimes better than book

MSmits: if it were, why would I not have noticed this when playing offline?

MSmits: i use the same eval

whay: i hate all

MSmits: i just spend more calc time and go deeper

MSmits: so I dont see why the 50 ms spent on CG is ever going to be more trustworthy

MSmits: Maybe it's an implementation thingy

MSmits: btw not saying you're wrong per sé Astrobytes. From what I read about opening books, the eval is sometimes preferred over the book result. I think it depends on what you decide to put in your book and what you don't. I set a cutoff at 10k games. If a node has less than 10k games played, it's best move is not put in the book

MSmits: so thats maybe 3 hrs of calculation time vs 50 ms

Astrobytes: Yeah, I guess you kinda don't need to weight your book moves in your case

jacek: i think it also depends how your bot react to the position left by book

jacek: book moves can be really good, but bot too dumb to make use of it

MSmits: yes jacek, that's my problem currently. My bot gets put into situations the parameters are not fitted for

Astrobytes: Yes, that's also true

MSmits: it's not that it's dumb, it's that you can't really deal with all possible board layouts wit just 10 params

MSmits: so it specializes

jacek: so use 16k params like me *.*

MSmits: I use books for that :P

MSmits: just havent been succesful in oware (yet) :)

whay: hi

MSmits: i think it's really cool to see the program tell me all those NN's do indeed play the best moves though

MSmits: i doubt they make more than 5-10 mistakes over a 100 ply game

MSmits: when they solved awari it was also found that usually 5-10 mistakes were made by the best competitive bots

MSmits: and this was a while ago, I think our NN's might be up to that level

jacek: i tested and my alt was 47 with 1-ply search

MSmits: rank 47 in oware?

jacek: yes

MSmits: hmm seems good but hard to say

Laminator: how do you guys go about training your models on these games? Is there like an api to call?

MSmits: no support at all

MSmits: completely trained offline

MSmits: in your own framework, you can use tensorflow, keras, pytorch or whatnot

MSmits: then you put in something that fits into the codesize

MSmits: which is 100k characters

MSmits: this includes all the code

MSmits: it's quite an accomplishment to make a NN work on CG

Laminator: So you have to get the source code for the game or recreate it?

MSmits: well most NN's here are written for simple board games, so the source code would be a few 100 lines

MSmits: but you can use a java referee if you want

MSmits: most games have them

Astrobytes: Source code is usually given or simple enough mechanics that you can implement it easily yourself

MSmits: I always write it myself for offline programs

MSmits: usually the java ref is slow to setup

Astrobytes: It's mostly faster if you implement yourself, but that's not totally necessary (as per karlis o)

Astrobytes: And yeah MSmits

MSmits: i remember for locam i was fitting params using brutaltester referees

MSmits: the nr 1 used his own version and did like 10k games per hour

MSmits: because locam did not need much calc time and the limiting factor was the referee

Astrobytes: who was #1? closet AI?

MSmits: yeah

eulerscheZahl: 10k per hour? i remember that differently (as in: much more)

MSmits: he did a total of 100k games or so

MSmits: I guesstimated it to 10k/hour, i dunno

MSmits: i remember the 100k number from his PM

Laminator: Very neat. I just finished an RL class last semester so it'll be nice to try to implement.

MSmits: maybe it was 100k a day?

MSmits: Laminator try it on a simple game. Oware we know is good for it.

DomiKo: is there any game where QL will be good?

DomiKo: QLearning*

MSmits: QL is not useful for games that arent solved is it?

eulerscheZahl: "When testing a change running 100K games was a standard way to decide whether it is an improvement."

eulerscheZahl: so 100k multiple times

MSmits: yeah, but it was 30 day contest, so we'll never know :P

Laminator: As long as the states variables are discrete, I think QL could work.

eulerscheZahl: let's quote recurse instead: "I am talking about self-playing at a rate of around 1000 games per second here."

MSmits: wow

MSmits: ok... i stand corrected :)

eulerscheZahl: closet did the whole draft order with selfplay. that needs a lot of batches with 100k each

MSmits: yeah, I know, I tested with 1-2k batches and it was useless

eulerscheZahl: agreed

eulerscheZahl: did the same

eulerscheZahl: 500 games: yay it's better \o/ 1000: wait a second...

MSmits: when fitting params for board games I usually do 400 games vs 5 different players and it works fine. At least for rough estimates

MSmits: thats 400 total

MSmits: 80 per

Astrobytes: I just fumbled around in the dark for a week lol

eulerscheZahl: i hated the game and downloaded matches to steal the draft from others

eulerscheZahl: also smits was a great help as he gave me some order

MSmits: yeah you did that

Astrobytes: I remember :D

MSmits: i spent 5 hrs stealing it by hand

eulerscheZahl: instantly 75% wins vs my old bot

MSmits: i just watched a ton of games

Astrobytes: Was kinda sad it was reduced to that

MSmits: to see what he preferred

eulerscheZahl: and i told you that you can manually set the cards in draft

MSmits: i went to rank 1 immediately when i did that, i guess the rest of my bot was still better than most at that time... i stayed like a few hrs at 1 :P

eulerscheZahl: even 3 times the same and recurse printing his fake stats to give different score to them :D

MSmits: lol

MSmits: the sad thing is that games like this have so much unknown info that it's hard to do any smart algorithms

eulerscheZahl: you plateaued a while

MSmits: everyone just bruteforced it and the draft was so unbalanced that the difference between objective strengths of the cards was greater than the need for balance

DomiKo: MSmits how you play those 80 games per player?


MSmits: automated IDE games basically

eulerscheZahl: or play by hand

DomiKo: thanks

MSmits: oh right, i see i was at 1 for a while, nice find eulerscheZahl

MSmits: I think I was when legend opened

MSmits: interesting, I guess my end result at rank 5 wasnt as lucky as I thought it was, i actually went down over time

MSmits: massive submissions distorting the last few days prolly

eulerscheZahl: i went pretty downhill too in the last hours :D

MSmits: yeah you were unlucky, the graph shows a small dive at the end

whay: level up

whay: 4

eulerscheZahl: and you gave me the draft on august 14th, in the evening hours

MSmits: I gave it to you?

MSmits: oh right

MSmits: after my 5 hrs of madness

eulerscheZahl: but you told me not to tell on chat that you did :flushed:

MSmits: sounds like me

MSmits: I guess you helped me a lot too and i felt obligated to share

eulerscheZahl: i guess it doesn't matter anymore, 2 years ago

eulerscheZahl: now the info is leaked

MSmits: yep

whay: You are racists, do not speak to me

Astrobytes: whay, really. Please go and waste your time elsewhere.

eulerscheZahl: shush, don't talk to him!

whay: talking to me

MSmits: uh oh, you fed the troll

Scarfield: feed the ducks not the trolls, btw has there been made any new mods for chat?

Astrobytes: It's not been done yet Modfield

jacek: arent you mods already?

eulerscheZahl: on the way, delayed

eulerscheZahl: because of homepage redesign

Astrobytes: *'Quest Map'

eulerscheZahl: that

MSmits: noone here is a mod are they?

MSmits: dont you get a disk or something?

eulerscheZahl: but 2 are about to become one

MSmits: who?

whay: What did you say about me?

eulerscheZahl: 3 if you dig a little more in the chat history

Default avatar.png bartekkowalski: nize it

eulerscheZahl: about 7 in total IIRC

MSmits: how do they decide who to make mods?

MSmits: I mean I am assuming you'll be mod

Astrobytes: 8 I think

eulerscheZahl: thibaud asked here on chat to suggest names

Astrobytes: Yeah, I nominated euler

MSmits: ahh ok

MSmits: good choice

eulerscheZahl: noble Astrobytes

Astrobytes: Thibaud asked me directly, also WIN WIN WIN

whay: im arabic So do not talk to me

Astrobytes: And we suggested some others

MSmits: ahh ok

jacek: i declined

eulerscheZahl: also: robo, dbd r, struct, Neuman n

MSmits: good, then we can more quickly get rid of spammers

eulerscheZahl: and uljah n

Astrobytes: yup

Uljahn: im in doubt

jacek: ee

whay: Damn you do not talk to me

MSmits: why are you doubtful Uljahn?

Astrobytes: Why so Uljahn?

eulerscheZahl: you need a dictator for #ru

Scarfield: with great power, comes great responsibility

MSmits: Spiderfield

eulerscheZahl: i'm moderator on discord for a year maybe. Deleted less than 5 messages in that time, no kicks or bans

whay: i love nazs

MSmits: your presence is enough

eulerscheZahl: either there is much less trolling or i'm online at the wrong time. or both

whay: :rage:

Astrobytes: Discord's pretty tame in comparison to CG chat spam-wise

Scarfield: or online at the right time :thinking:

whay: :rage:

MSmits: CG chat is easy to get into

whay: telle me

Astrobytes: yeah, discord requires more than a click I guess

jacek: and elements of harmony

Astrobytes: lol

MSmits: I sense an obscure reference

jacek: obscure?

MSmits: well Idon't know it, obscure to me

jacek: try image google discord

eulerscheZahl: afk cat time

Scarfield: just googled it, its my little pony

Astrobytes: discord... harmony...

Scarfield: ooh

MSmits: lol...

Scarfield: lol

Astrobytes: argh

Astrobytes: stupid MLP

jacek: voiced by Q

Astrobytes: I was thinking musically

leojean890: eulerscheZahl your bender episode 4 is not easy ;P

MSmits: he has made harder puzzles

MSmits: well...1

leojean890: I believe you :)

Astrobytes: Yeah, try Space Maze. And get your ray-casting A* NN ready

Astrobytes: (last part is a joke btw)

leojean890: "very hard" category I suppose:)

Scarfield: xD

MSmits: leojean890 do you do a lot of puzzles?

leojean890: I began "training" part with puzzles only 2 or 3 weeks ago :P

leojean890: before, I did only multis and optims;)

MSmits: ahh ok

leojean890: but I did all the easy and medium ones

whay: msmits?

leojean890: only the official CG ones

MSmits: I enjoy them, but when I do a puzzle I always think I am going to be lagging behind on my multis :)

leojean890: for the momeht

leojean890: lagging behind ? you mean it prevents you from improving your multis ?:P

MSmits: yeah

leojean890: because you do something else

MSmits: new multis come out all the time and i cant keep up

leojean890: so it slows your multis improvement down :P

MSmits: thats it

Astrobytes: Haven't done any puzzles for a while, I tend to go on a little spree of doing them then leave it for a while

leojean890: I saw that you have many great rankings indeed :P

leojean890: it's hard compet in the top of each ;P

MSmits: thanks, yeah it is

leojean890: I never reached it for the moment :P

MSmits: i am not particularly fast though

leojean890: (top of multis !)

MSmits: I tend to stay obsessed long enough to get top 3-5

leojean890: I am around 28 in vindinium, bandas, oware..

Astrobytes: You're not #1 in any MSmits? I'm sure you were before

MSmits: yavalath currently

leojean890: but next spots are harder ;P

Astrobytes: Ah right

MSmits: rest, close

MSmits: well

MSmits: uttt close

MSmits: onitama close

MSmits: was nr 1 there both of them

MSmits: oware too, for a little bit, but the NN's took over again :)

Astrobytes: lol yeah, indeed

leojean890: I have to learn how to do them ;P

MSmits: me too, mostly for work though. I don't think I'll enjoy it that much beyond academic interest. I don't see myself obsessively try to get nr 1 with a NN

Astrobytes: And you can do pretty damn good without them

_Akira_: Hi

Astrobytes: (on CG I mean)

MSmits: yeah :)

MSmits: hi _Akira_

leojean890: spots < #20 are hard to reach, right ;p

MSmits: depends a lot on the multi leojean890

leojean890: for little ones I meant ;P

MSmits: sometimes only the top 10 is strong and the rest is much weaker

leojean890: for populated ones

MSmits: twixt-PP top 10 should not be too hard

leojean890: it's hard to reach #100 :P

MSmits: or paper soccer

_Akira_: have you played the power of thor

MSmits: yeah

_Akira_: ?

_Akira_: ok

MSmits: leojean890 hypersonic top 100 is really hard

leojean890: beam search, right ?

MSmits: yeah

leojean890: I have to throw my python away

leojean890: :p

leojean890: for this one:)

MSmits: yeah you need C#/java or faster there

leojean890: I already did it for othello and oware ;)

Astrobytes: top 5 for Othello

leojean890: C++

leojean890: but still #22, #30

leojean890: (minmax both)

MSmits: I think an inexperienced board game player would find it hard to get past you Astrobytes

whay: I'm not joking

MSmits: so top 5 is not the only hard part

Astrobytes: Fair, it does have mini leagues as you can see by the score diffs

whay: I'm not joking خن

MSmits: it's just that these board games have a high concentration of good players in a small league

Astrobytes: True

Astrobytes: It gives a good sense of accomplishment that way I feel

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: I dont need to see the rank to know I did well

MSmits: If i see myself near tric trac, I know i did ok

leojean890: I heard that the first use minmax in othello

whay: I'm not joking

Astrobytes: With multi probcut though leojean890

MSmits: leojean890 most use minmax yes, but with a lot of enhancements

MSmits: multi probcut is a really exotic one

leojean890: oh, using cutting ?

Astrobytes: (just misread that as erotic, wtf!)

leojean890: I should read about multi probcut

MSmits: its a pruning strategy thats almost like a neural network to decide what to prune

leojean890: oh ok

MSmits: Astrobytes has a dirty mind

leojean890: I see, didn't know this one

Astrobytes: It's like a multiple linear regression to tune your alpha and beta (to put it really simply)

MSmits: I use a mcts variant with eval instead of random rollout

Astrobytes: Check it out, lots of info out there, chessprogrammingwiki, some papers

leojean890: thanks for the tips, I will read about that !

jacek: or use jacekmax, the most awesomest algo there is

leojean890: ;)

MSmits: naturally

Astrobytes: hehe ofc

DomiKo: there is that moment

DomiKo: in life

MSmits: things can only get better when you add max to them

DomiKo: when you want to read about sommeting

DomiKo: and first google search

DomiKo: is jacek comment on github

MSmits: which one?

MSmits: link us

DomiKo: ok not the first

Astrobytes: must be benchmark

DomiKo: third


Astrobytes: ah

DomiKo: i was searching for mcts solver

DomiKo: and found jacek github ;)

jacek: oh my

MSmits: lol

Astrobytes: dooooxxxxed

MSmits: Robo uses mcts solver in his nn's

jacek: solver should be part of 'vanilla' mcts

leojean890: he has a good perf in othello as well !

MSmits: agreed, but it doesnt always help very much

MSmits: leojean890 Robo always does well when he tries

leojean890: yeah, like for pacman :)

MSmits: he won a contest before

leojean890: oh nice


leojean890: ow this one

leojean890: not my best multi :)

leojean890: hard to simulate I think

MSmits: it was my first contest

leojean890: maybe will do that one day

Astrobytes: I still hate that game lol

MSmits: yeah not that easy

leojean890: I agree

leojean890: nor botg ;)

MSmits: never tried that

MSmits: but I hear bad things :P

Astrobytes: I didn't do the contest but after all those Wood leagues I got bored

leojean890: very hard to simulate ;)

MSmits: did you try kutulu?

leojean890: I reached bronze in botg with easy code (5 lines ?)

leojean890: but after it's harder

eulerscheZahl: you will even struggle to put the BotG engine into 100k chars :D

leojean890: kutulu yes, I'm ranked #120

MSmits: ahh ok, i found it hard to come up with a search for that

leojean890: MSmits, I read your PM btw

MSmits: oh right

MSmits: i remember drawing lots of circles for that

leojean890: smitsimax :)

MSmits: that was the first iteration

Astrobytes: Smitsimax: First Blood

eulerscheZahl: took a while to get popular among other players

leojean890: to code botg engine with 100k chars, indeed..:P

MSmits: because of CSB

MSmits: it became popular for a while

leojean890: some people tried to use it for pacman, I read

MSmits: even though almost noone pulled it off there

MSmits: yeah

leojean890: but had difficulties

MSmits: for some reason it was most effectively used in xmas rush though

MSmits: probably because there were very little good alternatives

Astrobytes: Didn't seem sensible for Pacman imo but hey

Astrobytes: That was surprising for Xmas Rush

MSmits: sometimes having "a search" is better than no search. These contests are often hard to write searches for

leojean890: OOC for example ;)

MSmits: yeah, i had a beamsearch for ooc

leojean890: a good tracker is a good start :p

MSmits: to path through areas with few mines

MSmits: but it's only a partial search really

leojean890: my mine avoidance strategy was weak, that's why I stayed top gold for 10 days not succeeding to reach legend ;P

MSmits: thats what you have to do sometimes, do one part with heuristics and one part with search

MSmits: ahhh, that sucks, to be stuck behind gold boss

Astrobytes: search is search, doesn't always need to be a full game tree search, you might use different types of searches for different stages/situations

MSmits: I always managed to get past it, but often at the last moment

leojean890: for 10 days it's sucks yeah^^

MSmits: yeah Astrobytes

leojean890: I was like between #15 and #2 gold all the time ;P

MSmits: was there much rating difference with goild boss?

MSmits: sometimes the rank doesnt mean all that much

MSmits: if gold boss is at +3 for example

leojean890: I sometimes had more than its "min"

MSmits: ahh ok

leojean890: he navigates between 28 and 32

leojean890: and me between 24.5 and 28.5 :P

leojean890: need big luck xd

MSmits: I see, then you might have gotten lucky with a RPS spamsubmit thats weak against you and strong against boss

MSmits: thats how people get pushed into a league

leojean890: and with CG bench I had 30-40% winrate against him;)

MSmits: wow mobility param has a really strong effect on the game in othello

MSmits: i lowered it a bit and my bot is crap

MSmits: was at 800, started at 500-600 for refitting and both tests 20% winrate overall

leojean890: yeah sometimes someone spam submit and some people pass because of him:)

MSmits: yep

MSmits: thats how the servers overload sometimes

MSmits: when someone spam promotes a bunch of players in CSB

leojean890: hehe

leojean890: leagues with 30k people :)

MSmits: yeah

leojean890: it's a huge mess:p

MSmits: it doesnt get much attention on chat these days

MSmits: but before, everyone would always talk about csb

leojean890: the most popular multi ;P

leojean890: -3vel became a legend ;)

MSmits: well mostly because it's connected to the tutorial i think

leojean890: yes:p

MSmits: it gets suggested at first

Astrobytes: That and a certain absent advocate

leojean890: often, people talk about it in #fr ;)

MSmits: you mean MK :)

Astrobytes: yep

leojean890: I heard about him

leojean890: I was not really present in CG at his time ;P

MSmits: csb is still alive in #fr?

leojean890: sometimes yeah but depends on who pass :)

MSmits: ah ok

Astrobytes: Yes, pretty much the same here

leojean890: often new codingamers

Astrobytes: yep

eulerscheZahl: fix ur csb

leojean890: but it's maybe 1 day out of 2 ?

leojean890: idk the exact frequency

Astrobytes: ezpz euler

eulerscheZahl: where did MK go? that was his job to say that

MSmits: yeah I dunno

MSmits: in my first week on CG he kept asking to teamviewer me :P

icecream17: errr... what is csb?

Scarfield: el structo said he was gaming last week, so he is still around, just not advocating CSB anymore

MSmits: pod racing multi icecream17


icecream17: oh that

eulerscheZahl: once i changed my nick as automaton kept pinging me

Astrobytes: He quit CG

leojean890: mdr

icecream17: automaton2000

eulerscheZahl: MK didn't realize it was me and PMed me to give advice to CSB

Automaton2000: the difference between the two

MSmits: lol

Astrobytes: literal last words "MadKnight quits"

leojean890: automaton2000

Automaton2000: a simulation of the game

Astrobytes: And not been seen since then

leojean890: by changing only one character

leojean890: you gets spammed as well

MSmits: Astrobytes any specific reason ?

leojean890: automato2000

Astrobytes: dbdr showed the chat log last week

MSmits: I know he hadnt been coding for a long time

Scarfield: untill he unquits, or some other user starts getting people to play CSB

Astrobytes: Looked like he got (wait for it): offended

MSmits: by?

eulerscheZahl: last contest he tried was mean max i think not counting a placement around rank 1000

Astrobytes: Hard to say, was only mild trolling about CSB from what I could see

MSmits: ah

Scarfield: i saw the link, but didnt seem to me that it was anything bad (?)

Astrobytes: Or about him being a bot

Astrobytes: Yeah it was very mild trollage

Astrobytes: I think he was fed up with the CSB association

Scarfield: TrollagestroBytes

leojean890: so he PMed you to "teach" automaton bots to say "fix ur csb"

Astrobytes: Trollfield

eulerscheZahl: he's so easy to parodize spellcheck underlines that word, no idea how to write it

MSmits: no leojean890 AutomatonNN at some point decided to talk to euler all day

AutomatonNN: why is that a thing about checkers?

MSmits: so euler got pinged

MSmits: so euler changed his name to prevent being pinged

Astrobytes: Just parody euler

eulerscheZahl: oh

leojean890: because named automaton ?

eulerscheZahl: and royale had to change his nick permanently because of a contest :D

leojean890: code royale

leojean890: ?

leojean890: ;)

MSmits: for the best Automaton statement, check eulers profile leojean890

eulerscheZahl: yes :D

Astrobytes: hehehe

leojean890: "eulerscheZahl is a noob" - AutomatonNN

MSmits: i was there when he said it

AutomatonNN: eulerscheZahl is there a way to see a tutorial on what the problem is that the other ones are always

MSmits: could not stop laughing :P

eulerscheZahl: idiot

leojean890: nice hehe

Scarfield: wish i was there xD

MSmits: was in the morning when i was on the train if i recall correctly

MSmits: best start of the day

eulerscheZahl: luckily automaton got fixed to some degree and pings me less often now

eulerscheZahl: as seen above

MSmits: oh right, he just did it again

Scarfield: oops

MSmits: britney spears references, really ?

Scarfield: xD

MSmits: i thought we drew the line at my little pony

Scarfield: well you got it

Scarfield: and she is beyond that line :thinking:

MSmits: hehe

MSmits: i dunno

Astrobytes: enough of this Toxic chat

MSmits: !

Astrobytes: Moar Britney

Scarfield: its bitney "beeach"

MSmits: imagine MK missing all this

Astrobytes: We don't have to imagine, he is.

Astrobytes: (I know what you mean)

Scarfield: lol

eulerscheZahl: he managed to turn himself into a meme in the end

Astrobytes: An interesting life cycle for sure

Scarfield: 20% helpful 80% "fix it/ ezpz"

Astrobytes: *70% "fix it", 10% rubberducking/help me with my assignment

eulerscheZahl: a long time ago, even before Automaton, i suggested to write a MK bot. seems we should do it now, if the real one is gone

MSmits: yes, do it

eulerscheZahl: Astrobytes these numbers don't add up

MSmits: did you use "+" ?

eulerscheZahl: yes, in base 10

MSmits: hmm

**MSmits is stumped

Astrobytes: 70% fix it, 20% helpful, 10% rubberducking?

terragady: is it possible to have higher difficulty on clash of code?

eulerscheZahl: funny part: it's always base 10, no matter which number system you are using

terragady: the tasks are super easy

Scarfield: 10% power of will

tomatoes: use bash

Default avatar.png DoxLee: how can i look at my last games ??

MSmits: terragady if you want harder tasks, you will need to do something other than clashes

Astrobytes: Do puzzles instead terragady

Scarfield: ^

Astrobytes: Or bot programming, or optimisation

terragady: but i want to compete with friend :P

MSmits: you can compete through bot programming

eulerscheZahl: you can fight them in bot...

eulerscheZahl: damn

MSmits: I type with 2 fingers euler

Astrobytes: And that lasts longer too

eulerscheZahl: i'm sleepy

Astrobytes: You too MSmits?!

MSmits: ah yes, its your bedtime

MSmits: i never did a typing course

MSmits: so yeah

eulerscheZahl: what happened to your other 8 fingers?

MSmits: thats how i learned

Astrobytes: Even darkhorse has upgraded to using thumbs

MSmits: it's just badly learned

Scarfield: wait, isnt it 41 minutes past your bedtime?

eulerscheZahl: i didn't take a typing course either. invented my own system

MSmits: there is a big issue with 2 finger typing

Astrobytes: I learned typing to the soundtrack of... Boney M

eulerscheZahl: i'm staying up longer in summer. my room is under the roof, too warm to sleep

MSmits: your hand makes larger movements, so you hit the keyboard a LOT harder

Astrobytes: Thank you Mrs Hendry :(

MSmits: i wake up my wife and daughter typing sometimes :p

eulerscheZahl: can you type blindly?

Astrobytes: Me or Smits?

MSmits: nearly, i correct my hand placement subconsciously every minute or so

MSmits: if i use a different keyboard, i have problems for a while

Scarfield: you wake them up, do you mean you type with your fists, not fingers?

MSmits: or am sitting in a different position

eulerscheZahl: only 1 way to find out:

MSmits: Scarfield it sounds like fistst

Astrobytes: I usually type without looking, depending on pain meds status lol

MSmits: lol

MSmits: ok one time euler

Astrobytes: And I have a loud keyboard

Astrobytes: Satisfyingly loud

MSmits: mmh 55 to 59

eulerscheZahl: we are both slow :D

MSmits: i got stuck on the word forever

MSmits: had to retype it twice

eulerscheZahl: yeah, you had a lead

MSmits: thats what happens when i misplace my hand on the keyboard

MSmits: some words i type super fast and others i get stuck

Astrobytes: Hm, that's a late-morning exercise for me I think lol

Scarfield: how do you type "stewardesse" MSmits?

eulerscheZahl: yet i constantly beat you on the chat Astrobytes

MSmits: Scarfield, poorly

MSmits: with 1 finger

Scarfield: the longest word only typed with the left hand

Scarfield: nice :)

eulerscheZahl: and i have to put more thoughts in my wording, would be easier for me in German

Astrobytes: Don't mock the afflicted eulerscheZahl :P

MSmits: do you think it's possible for me to be better with 10 fingers than with 2 if i typed this way for 20 years?

eulerscheZahl: missisippi is fun to type as well

Astrobytes: Maybe, but if you can type fast enough with 2 then crack on

MSmits: yeah for now

eulerscheZahl: obviously you need to switch to Dvorak first

MSmits: maybe if i get older i could get some repetitive strain injuries

Astrobytes: Works fine for darkhorse using two fingers (and recently thumbs as stated)

MSmits: oh he upgraded recently?

Astrobytes: Yes. Stopped using his ankles too.

MSmits: actually i do use a thumb for space bar

eulerscheZahl: my spacebar is worn up on one side, almost new on the other

eulerscheZahl: always using the left thumb for space

MSmits: Astrobytes what did he do with his ankles?

Scarfield: type loudly

Astrobytes: lol, it was a mistranslation, he'd hurt his wrists typing but stated ankles instead

MSmits: ahh ok

Astrobytes: It was too good to ever forget

eulerscheZahl: :D

Scarfield: lol my spacebar is actually as well, but on the right side. would have thought the left took most of the beating from gaming

MSmits: so far I only get issues with too much mouse clicking

MSmits: keyboard has never hurt me so far

Astrobytes: My keyboard is fine

Astrobytes: And I use it all day every day, well, most

Astrobytes: Needs a clean though

eulerscheZahl: i got pretty good at using autocomplete in the IDE. typing those letters that i can reach easily, omitting the others

Astrobytes: Visual Studio is nice in that way

eulerscheZahl: now it is

Astrobytes: Yeah, indeed!

MSmits: do you mean the CG IDE eulerscheZahl?

eulerscheZahl: MonoDevelop had that earlier i think (to that extend)

MSmits: since it was changed

eulerscheZahl: i don't use the CG IDE

MSmits: i thought maybe for puzzles

MSmits: I use it for that

eulerscheZahl: ssorem => StringSplitOptions.RemoveEmptyEntries

Astrobytes: I use it for some puzzles and quick edits

MSmits: when i load up oware these days, it takes like a full minute

MSmits: the C++ language assist I think ?

Astrobytes: Ah not just me then

eulerscheZahl: illedan reported something like that too

eulerscheZahl: on discord

Astrobytes: SAme for a few multis, even without long text strings

Astrobytes: btw, did any CGers do the ICFP contest?

eulerscheZahl: i registered, decided against after seeing the task

Astrobytes: Looked like some reverse engineering thingy when I checked it Friday

Astrobytes: Didn't follow it

eulerscheZahl: my first thought: implement some kind of interpreter for their own madeup language

eulerscheZahl: like processor opcode

eulerscheZahl: didn't check if that turned out to be true in the end. they only had half the rules revealed at the start

eulerscheZahl: defining numbers, math operators

eulerscheZahl: so i expected branches, conditions and such

Astrobytes: That looked like the thing to do yeah, but the changing ruleset put me off even going near it

eulerscheZahl: that too. and the lengthy statement just to decide if i like it

eulerscheZahl: to me a good game has a short statement yet a high complexity

Astrobytes: Concept was fine I guess, didn't need to be so wordy

tomatoes: :thumbsup:

eulerscheZahl: i don't even know. TL;DR

tomatoes: easy to learn hard to master

eulerscheZahl: to enter*

Astrobytes: :)

Astrobytes: lol, just realised my offline Othello runner was only using 50 out of 150 ms :/

Astrobytes: (in 'CG' mode)

AntiSquid: is python_programerPP rejecting stuff for the sake of rejecting? :D

Astrobytes: Yeah, that's IAmNoob's renamed account

Astrobytes: Cheater + troll

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: #math

Kariin: Took me forever to notice lol

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: @Kariin but now that you've seen it you'll never forget

Kariin: Dude that last line it's freaking dirty xD

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: :laughing:

Default avatar.png Nodius08: jsut fuck

PatrickMcGinnisII: your lvl is your bedroom prowess

Default avatar.png Nodius08: no mr

Default avatar.png Nodius08: its you

PatrickMcGinnisII: lvl = level ... lvl looks dirty

PatrickMcGinnisII: place your ears on the e's

PatrickMcGinnisII: l e U e l

Default avatar.png Dlx: why the hck is the 5 min battles mashed up with scripting dirty languages and real code? Bah

Default avatar.png Dlx: what is the best song for a clash of code :D

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: @Dlx I'm listening to Vulfpeck


Default avatar.png pedrosorio: I would also recommend

itzblinkzy: haha very funny..

itzblinkzy: :expressionless:


Default avatar.png Dlx: sofi tukker treehouse :D


PatrickMcGinnisII: Go hard yungsters

Default avatar.png Dlx: ah, som corn beef

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: @peshwa share your code,please!

itzblinkzy: share code cmon!

itzblinkzy: im trying to learn here

PatrickMcGinnisII: ahh, Dlx wants some

PatrickMcGinnisII: i quit, darn crossword puzzle got me brain twister, glhf

Default avatar.png Dlx:

Default avatar.png Dlx: bass & Bones gotoguy

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: beating _python_ at their own game

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: hmm

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: tfw you spend 2 minutes in "shortest" clash and you're like "can't optimize it further, submit"

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: oof, got beaten there

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: well played @TLun

Default avatar.png Dlx: why is the clash chat closed just when you get to results, that's when you have time to chat...

Default avatar.png Dlx: annoying

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: lol yeah

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: 22 seconds

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: best time ever

Default avatar.png Dlx: and why can't I get to finish my code when the clash is over, come on... I bet 95% of people here care most about solving it, not really winning it... so unsatisfying that i copied my code and finished it in a jupyter notebook lol

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: that's pretty lame, they should let you go back

Default avatar.png Dlx: yep..

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: and run the test cases

Default avatar.png Dlx: hello admin, fix it ;p

Default avatar.png Dlx: I just staret codingame, it's pretty fun :D just bitchin about some minor stuff...

Default avatar.png Dlx: isn't there a suggestion box here...

Default avatar.png pedrosorio: submitted to early

Default avatar.png Dlx: Also, best score/most tests passed should count, not randomly last test run or last code... and also, frigging warn 60 seconds left with red flashing :)

Default avatar.png Dlx: Dang I'm doing this coding style for my next pair programming... will be working so fast and dirty on first pass that buddy will have no chanse to follow what I'm doing, just for fun, and then refactor refactor refactor after ;p

Uljahn: Automaton2000: fix it

Automaton2000: what if you could do a better job

Default avatar.png Dlx: what, lol :)

Default avatar.png fachryadhitya: :worried: