jacek: good morning
TheSpiffiest: Just realized it's missing "R" language
TheSpiffiest: I have to learn that for my new job
TheSpiffiest: They are doing 3d graphics with it.
Astrobytes: 3D data visualisation I hope. Either that they're insane :P
TheSpiffiest: Yep. 3JS and giant data sets
jacek: JS? :scream:
TheSpiffiest: I didn't write it, but I'm tasked with rewriting it.
YCS-Venom: Hello world
ntsd: Hi Community
ntsd: I wanna practice English can anyone voice chat with me?
AntiSquid: hi ntsd long time no see
Power of Thor - Episode 1
ntsd: You need to pass it first
ntsd: then you'll see other code in same language
ntsd: you need 100%
Astrobytes: Have you checked out the 'Hints' button on the left MOSTAFA?
Astrobytes: Press it and see ;)
Astrobytes: No problem
DaBestest: Right now I'm playing King George's three songs from Hamilton on repeat while I try to finish up a huge project on Scratch I'm making with a bunch of friends for a contest...
jacek: good for you
MSmits: jacek, what happened on Othello?
MSmits: did tric trac and robo submit a better version or ?
Astrobytes: Submitted before coffee by the looks of things :P
MSmits: I fixed up my AVX last night
MSmits: pretty sizable boost to performance
MSmits: not much difference in rating I think though
Astrobytes: Is that your current version?
MSmits: still very simple eval
Astrobytes: Hm yeah, doesn't seem to have improved your position much. Wait til your eval is better, then it might count for more
Astrobytes: Your eval is just mobility + corners?
MSmits: mostly yes
MSmits: now using up to 16 million nodes in turn 1 and then over a million nodes each turn
MSmits: my node pool is 22 million, sooo not much tree-reuse
MSmits: it's kinda funny, Robo evals 3k nodes per turn and I eval 1 million. His bot beats mine by far
MSmits: shows how important eval is huh
Astrobytes: Yeah, for sure
MSmits: but i am pretty sure my search type is just fine. No need for minimax
MSmits: not even done fitting the 4 parameters I do ha e
Astrobytes: Did you get frontiers working?
MSmits: i havent tried again
Astrobytes: It's a strange parameter
MSmits: if its only useful in early game then I don't want to put too much effort into it
Astrobytes: Seems useful throughout, you see a lot of games where it's mostly quiet moves then a big BAM! at the end
MSmits: yeah but how do you know it's frontier ?
Washier: was wondering earlier, how do you think the top othello bots will fare against the greats like Logistello, given the time limit?
MSmits: the reason it is not a fair comparison is that the evals here use hardcoded ntuple-tables and similar. Logistello has a far larger codespace for this
Astrobytes: minimising your frontier discs means a quieter move
MSmits: so we use smaller ntuples and such
MSmits: not me, but I guess at some point I might
MSmits: what do you mean quieter?
Astrobytes: flipping less frontier discs
Astrobytes: And creating less
MSmits: but isnt that the same as giving your opponent less mobility?
MSmits: I think it might interfere with the mobility eval
Astrobytes: yes, they're related
MSmits: thats the problem I think
Astrobytes: It's also known as potential mobility
Astrobytes: Finding the balance with these two is tricky
MSmits: yeah I guess so
Astrobytes: For me at least
Astrobytes: Just started working on it again after a break
MSmits: I should probably also look at other eval features like disc stability
Astrobytes: Yeah, I need to do that also. Been lazy
Astrobytes: I conditionally evaluate the C and X squares
Astrobytes: By corner occupancy that is
Washier: i alos tried that, didnt help me.
Washier: but, fark, im still struggling with itterative deepening, so dont listen to me
MSmits: C and X I did make work
MSmits: it's a bit tricky to make sure you dont punish yourself when you have a corner and also the squares next to it
MSmits: X squares are only bad when the corner is still free
Astrobytes: Yeah exactly that
inoryy: why won't you guys write down your progress in blog posts and the likes?
eulerscheZahl: sounds easier to follow than chat activity spread over days if not weeks
Astrobytes: I don't particularly feel worthy of blogging tbh, Smits definitely should
DomiKo: i guess inorry's idea is really cool
inoryy: it would also immensly help with potential career switches down the line
MSmits: it's good advice inoryy, thanks
Astrobytes: Fair point
MSmits: Astrobytes, your bot doesn't have to be the best bot to be worthy of blogging. I think many good blogs just follow a path of improvement. Doesn't matter if it leaves out the very last bit that gets you from rank 10 to rank 3 or something
eulerscheZahl: no HeaDTy
HeaDTy: Ok sry
DomiKo: if not "shortest mode" i can try
Astrobytes: Yes, I guess that's true MSmits
inoryy: Astrobytes everyone thinks this way; the reality is that a top100 bot with a detailed blog post is more valuable than a #1 with no info
MSmits: very true
inoryy: both for the community and for the blogger
Astrobytes: You do have a point there, yep
MSmits: I'm trying to find a good function to calculate stable disks now
MSmits: i think that could be important
Astrobytes: It seemed like it might be a little 'involved', hence me not doing it yet :P
MSmits: it should be similar to generating and resolving moves
Astrobytes: Yeah, it is, with a few additional bits
inoryy: Astrobytes a real-world example -- Magus CSB blog post has been an invaluable resource for everyone from #1 to #200+ while his own bot basically floats from top50 to top100 based on who submit spams
MSmits: you've convinced everyone inoryy :)
Washier: not sure if it can work here, but on kaggle anybody can share code with the community in the form of a working entry they can submit. as long as people dont share insanely good scripts, everybody wins, but not all people would agree.
Astrobytes: Hm, that's a good example actually. I'll see what I can do.
MSmits: it's a delicate balance between sharing and competition Washier
MSmits: hard to say where the exact line is
eulerscheZahl: also depends on the game and approach to it. "wrote some if-else bot" rarely makes a good post IMO
Washier: yup. and people have fought over it a lot.
MSmits: unless it's an introduction to the game and is followed up by more nuanced evaluations
eulerscheZahl: the CSB bible rebuilds the engine and makes a good blog article that way. i didn't even care about the GA part of it
Astrobytes: Building blocks, yes
eulerscheZahl: then again with public referee the CSB blog post would be less interesting to me. it just tells us what CG missed to state
MSmits: there are 3 types of things that would be interesting to blog it seems to me
MSmits: 1) Strategic stuff pertaining to the game. How do you win? Regardless of the way it's coded
MSmits: 2) Explaining how search types work
eulerscheZahl: 3) your lunch that explains social media
MSmits: 3) Implementation of algorithms
MSmits: or that
MSmits: why would my lunch explain social media
Washier: i would love to read 2) MSmits
MSmits: it's funny even though i dont get it :P
MSmits: I think I prefer to write specific guides as opposed to writing a blog while I am still figuring things out
dbdr: sounds like a perfectionist mind :0
MSmits: when i am still figuring it out i prefer to chat about it so i get advice
MSmits: well that too
inoryy: you could write down intermediate results
MSmits: thats a good idea
MSmits: thats what people do in post mortems sometimes
jacek: writing blogs could also work as rubber duck debugging
jacek: i wonder how many bugs i would discover if i were to review my code and logic
jacek: and yes, i posted inferior bot, im looking between weight number balance vs their usefulness
Astrobytes: Coming to Wood 1 then DomiKo? :)
eulerscheZahl: sometimes i write my post mortem during the contest. it helps me to reflect what i'm doing, found a few bugs that way
jacek: so its in mortem then
MSmits: nice one eulerscheZahl. Also might be a way to battle losing interest.
MSmits: a bit of variation from staring at code and getting little progress
kovi: yes, but there is a different point of view: it you can't win in, at least you can teach it
Washier: your progress looks pretty good from here.
Astrobytes: DomiKo is absolutely wrecking Wood 2
kovi: but as msmits wrote sometimes, summarizing what is done/known can help reveal new ideas
MSmits: btw kovi, did you come here for a spefic multi? I don't see you active much outside contests
MSmits: specific that is
eulerscheZahl: kovi knows something we don't know yet
MSmits: i imagine he knows many things
Washier: sorry MSmits, i meant excellent. (goed in afrikaans is meer komplimenterend)
jacek: can jet fuel melt steel beams?
MSmits: no I meant good that dominik is coming into wood 1 :P
DomiKo: yap :D
Washier: oh crap
Astrobytes: gg dude, great submit
MSmits: domiko sry
DomiKo: but no worries
DomiKo: not right now ;P
DomiKo: WAshier 1:0 for me
Washier: haha. move along, nothing to see here
Washier: smashing me
Washier: taking al 4 corners, both times
Washier: me prediction, 7-sh
DomiKo: then it will end i will push better version
Astrobytes: god help us all :)
Washier: at the end
Washier: of submit
vfpx07: Do Python users have an advantage when doing least characters possible?
MSmits: I need more c++ to test against, keep going Domiko :)
eulerscheZahl: depends over whom vfpx07
DomiKo: how i won
MSmits: lemme see that
eulerscheZahl: python wins in shortest vs Java but most likely loses vs bash
MSmits: why bug?
DomiKo: i didn't think that could happend
MSmits: bot detected loss at frame 47
MSmits: I have had wins against people 6 rating up... there's still such a thing as random luck and rps effects :)
DomiKo: 2:0 for me
DomiKo: that's not luck!
MSmits: rps maybe then
Washier: happened to me before believe it or not. once beat LeRenard. freak game
DomiKo: what is rps?
MSmits: rock paper scissors
MSmits: you're rock and I'm scissors
MSmits: and everyone else is paper. Well except top 4 :P
MSmits: could be that if i change one parameter by a tiny bit, the rock is gone
MSmits: it's like that in many games
MSmits: thats why i always test against multiple players
MSmits: yep, you rock
eulerscheZahl: that's why i hate board games with a static setup
eulerscheZahl: maps need randomness in geenration
MSmits: ye ye we got it, Onitama is great :P
eulerscheZahl: wasn't planning to say or imply that
MSmits: it's still true
Astrobytes: Alright, so we make a version of othello where you randomly swap sides at random intervals in the game just for euler :P
Washier: final push for 7. cmon
DomiKo: RNG lets go!
MSmits: what happened with tomatoes btw
Washier: or opening books
eulerscheZahl: no, random for map generation. not during the game
MSmits: pretty sure his rating was better
Astrobytes: It was
Astrobytes: Alright, so we have areas of squares in both colours randomly distributed at the start of the game
DomiKo: i have no chance with top7
DomiKo: you god
DomiKo: i end up at 7...
DomiKo: how you guessed that
Washier: wish i had less intuition and more brains
Washier: its a toit 7 tho. will change
nguyenletienbao: input $8.90
nguyenletienbao: Expected output
nguyenletienbao: 8 3 1 1 0
nguyenletienbao: how to handle this?
WINWINWIN: Number of 1 dollar, number of 25 cent, number of 10 cent, number of 5 cent, number of 1 cent
Washier: guess 8 $ bills, 3 quarters etc
nguyenletienbao: can u explain more clearly
WINWINWIN: Consider a amount that you want to convert into change.
WINWINWIN: The denominations you have are: 1dollar, 25 cent, 10 cent, 5 cent, 1 cent
WINWINWIN: print how many of each you need.
nguyenletienbao: got it:grinning:
sparky: which puzzle?
WINWINWIN: Think he means csb
DaBestest: who's watched Hamilton on Disney+?
TheSpiffiest: Ha. I keep going off on tangets in code clash. I can solve it in a minute, but then I think wait... there's an algorithm that will do this in one go that's more interesting.
TheSpiffiest: regular expressions on the brain
nachonitz: Hello World!
tomatoes: It’s so close! The South Pole Wall is just half a billion light-years away :slight_smile:
Hjax: so.... the universe is flat? :P
Astrobytes: lol, was just waiting on flat earther jokes :D
TheSpiffiest: It's just one axis less than anticipated... flat squared? :)
AbundantPuddle: The earth is flat and the universe is a one dimensional hot dog.
Hankdane: But is it a wiener or a frankfurter dog?
TheSpiffiest: So what is ranking? My levels are going up, but ranking seems to be unchanged.
TheSpiffiest: Oh - just read it's updated once a day. Disregard.
AbundantPuddle: It is both neither and both or neither.
Masterpiece: is there anyone who would like to do contest with me in code forces ?
jacek: start from index 1 and take every 2 letters
jacek: so aaa
DomiKo: Othello is hard :/
DomiKo: hmmm maybe i will push tomotoes
DomiKo: i did it xd
tomatoes: good :thumbsup:
Laminator: has anyone had any luck doing the featured puzzles and move forward on a job opportunity?
jamieday: hello, world