thanhhv317: where are u from?
thanhhv317: why are you know it?
thanhhv317: do you want play code game with me
thanhhv317: okay !!
thanhhv317: how old are u
thanhhv317: what is language code
thanhhv317: i am student
thanhhv317: and i want to a job
thanhhv317: i can build a website with php,html,css,js
thanhhv317: you can do it?
thanhhv317: i think python fit for algothym, AI
thanhhv317: with web, python not power
thanhhv317: 13 year old ?
thanhhv317: u very cool
thanhhv317: i am bad
thanhhv317: do u want play a game with me
thanhhv317: solo code :xd
saarques: Hey everyone! :)
saarques: Glad to be a part of this community!, thanks for your amazing support
saarques: Don't know, Seems like there is
saarques: Indidrect support, I was literaaly craving to start coding for a while
saarques: Yu it is.
saarques: I couldn't do it this much, I am in my final year lol
saarques: And that too CSE
saarques: Getting itno new COC, wanna join?
saarques: Sure thing
saarques: You got it
Andriamanitra: did you even need end="" ?
saarques: I have this habit of putting spaces
saarques: Yup, it was needed
saarques: Yeah, it makes things clear for me, when I'm doing some big nasty work
saarques: No, it did matter
saarques: I tried that, it wasn't accepting the newline
Andriamanitra: weird, i had newline at the end of my square
saarques: That's cool too Andriamanitra
saarques: No, your may not have been a newline, I in my case, put it forcefully
saarques: Yup, just as owen said
saarques: Ohkay :)
saarques: I remember only one Owen, that's a footballer
saarques: Ohh, right
saarques: Hmm, that's cool
saarques: Up for the next one? :upside_down:
saarques: forky is your friend, it seems
saarques: Ohh, okay
jistjoalal: i just did a clash that only required 3 buttons on keyboard
saarques: That's great
Andriamanitra: why am i getting security checks every single time i join a clash T_T
kazuki_fuze: ok lets go
jacek: because youre bot
thanhhv317: i using js
jacek: im sorry
DomiKo: another top1 in gold ehhh
DomiKo: that's the feeling when you love it and hate it at the same time
jacek: but youre in legend now?
jacek: also, go to wybory
dbdr: gg on joining the top pack, MSmits!
DomiKo: wybory done ;)
DomiKo: and no ;(
MSmits: thanks dbdr, I just have a few eval parameters, super basic
MSmits: trying to tune them but half of my opponents cant be tested against
MSmits: also there's some serious rock paper scissors, already found a set of parameters that beats tric trac half the time
Astrobytes: Yes, it's very annoying not being able to test
Astrobytes: gj btw ;)
MSmits: I think a simple set of params like i use in oware is going to be really limited here
MSmits: I do think one of those fancy trained evals is necessary
Astrobytes: Seems like the way to go
MSmits: I'll see if I can make something work after I get back from vacation
MSmits: never done this before
jacek: trained eval?
MSmits: like the ntuples
Astrobytes: How is the election going jacek
MSmits: jacek running for office?
jacek: for codingame president
jacek: im gonna ban rust
MSmits: ahh I see
MSmits: good idea
MSmits: those damn rusties, coming in and stealing our leaderboard spots
dbdr: easier than to compete? ;)
MSmits: they'd choke otherwise?
Astrobytes: ffs :D
dbdr: C/C++ gets #pragma. ban them! :)
Andriamanitra: in clash of code is there no way to see where my code went from after the round? i was a bit too quick on the old submit button
dbdr: CG should only accept OISC code. how to generate it is up to players
MSmits: Othello submit is like: Wreck anyone rank 8 and below, then get wrecked by anyone 1-4 while trying to catch a tomatoe
MSmits: gap below tomatoes is huge
dbdr: i like the "catch a tomatoe" expression :D
MSmits: thanks :copyright:
dbdr: wow, you just caught a tomatoe :D
MSmits: seems like it yeah
MSmits: i am just messing with parameters
MSmits: that frontier stuff is useless btw
MSmits: in an eval
MSmits: took it out, best param value was 0
eulerscheZahl: maybe it helps in one stage of the problem and not in another?
MSmits: i have the corners thing and also tried to add a separate eval for corner adjacents
MSmits: could be eulerscheZahl
MSmits: could not make corner adjacents work yet either. Maybe I need to check whether the corner has been taken already
MSmits: if the corner is taken, then its no problem to have a corner adjacent cell
jacek: thats why ntuple would take care of
MSmits: otherwise when you own a corner, you'll get punished for also having a corner adjacent
MSmits: yeah i know
dbdr: tomato is still fresh after all
MSmits: yeah, rock paper scissors
jacek: no, tomato is already rusted
jacek: and rotten
tomatoes: i think frontiers is a bit usefull in the early game
tomatoes: first 20 plies maybe
MSmits: maybe, couldn't tell
MSmits: this is really the perfect game to experiment with. I get why it's so popular as a research subject
MSmits: damnit jacek, 9 wins in a row to start my submit. You just had to ruin it
MSmits: trying to get past tomatoes, renard and tric trac
MSmits: otherwise known as
MSmits: fox and friends
MSmits: oo first jacek win
struct: Damn even with no books
struct: The game was played perfectly for 10 turns
struct: until MSmits made a mistake
struct: The right move was D7
jacek: how do you know
SkyDreamer: just did a shortest code contest and i cant understand why my code didnt work
SkyDreamer: print('+'.join(sorted([int(i)for i in input().split('+')])))
MSmits: well this is definitely a good submit then
Astrobytes: It would certainly appear so, very nice
MSmits: I love that this game has a public opening book
MSmits: if i ever make one for othello i can check it against that
jacek: or jsut copy paste
MSmits: whats the fun in that
MSmits: I hope people do that
MSmits: it's so easy to counter a deep opening book :)
jacek: there is logistello database games, for which you can train from
jacek: or compare
MSmits: yeah hjax is going to do that
jacek: you pushed me above robo, thx
MSmits: you're welcome
MSmits: my current test:
MSmits: RoboStac GW=25,00% [ W=16,67% L=66,67% D=16,67% ] 
Renard GW=68,75% [ W=68,75% L=31,25% D=0,00% ]  trictrac GW=60,71% [ W=57,14% L=35,71% D=7,14% ]  -- TOTAL -- GW=50,00% [ W=45,83% L=45,83% D=8,33% ] [48 games]
MSmits: doing well against renard and trick trac
MSmits: but Robo is strong
jacek: youre not testing against me?
MSmits: not yet, you're too tough, waste of games
jacek: i feel so unworthy
MSmits: if you lose everything, then there is no test
MSmits: I try to pick opponents around my bots strength
MSmits: in this case, many are rust, so not much to choose from
dbdr: only tomatoes
MSmits: and hjax, and that one guy at the top, forgot his name
jacek: but he uploads the binary :?
MSmits: oh dbdr is testable
Astrobytes: Yeah, you'll just lose
MSmits: not that it matters. I am not going to play 2000 games to see whether I win 1 or 2
struct: high expectations I see
dbdr: and hij*x is quite lower, so test probably not useful either
MSmits: had the same problem in oware, tests against robo and re curse were useless for a long time
dbdr: so improving my bot would be a good investment
MSmits: if I dont find a fancy eval like the top 3 did, I will not come anywhere near I think
MSmits: unless I cheese it and counterbook your bot, but I only do that when I am already in the ballpark, otherwise it feels like cheating
dbdr: and should be easy to counter if needed
MSmits: not exactly
MSmits: unless you randomize your bot
dbdr: book against your book
MSmits: so far I won every book war. It's a matter of who is most obsessed
MSmits: i can hold on because I think its fun to do :P
dbdr: sounds fun to me too :)
MSmits: well we'll have one later then maybe. But I need a good bot first
MSmits: btw, i try to counter book robo in oware atm
MSmits: not having much luck at all
MSmits: he plays perfectly deterministic
MSmits: so far first 15 plies he plays perfectly. He doesnt seem to make a mistake :P
MSmits: so kinda hard to counter. Expected seed difference stays at 0 and I lose the rest of the game
jacek: and yet here i am weith the move 10 as p2
MSmits: oh right, seems to work fine jacek
MSmits: my tests say 1, 4 and 5 are good as p2
jacek: so you cant outbook me!
MSmits: Robo does 1, I do 5, Agade as well
MSmits: It takes forever, iwont get to you with in a month probably, if it even works
MSmits: maybe my bot is not good enough to create a reliable oware book. It's a long game
jacek: when i search deep, there is 5 vs 4, sometimes 1
MSmits: I saw a paper that listed games of top bots
jacek: and robo resubmited
MSmits: they started with F a lot (6th pit)
MSmits: yeah I know I am testing vs his current bot
MSmits: i meant they replied with F a lot sorry
MSmits: so 5
jacek: i use 6-11 for the upper ~
MSmits: I think multiple replies are solved as a draw
MSmits: ah I just always use 0 to 5
MSmits: from what i can tell only the 0 reply (6) is bad
MSmits: maybe 2 also
jacek: i wonder if in ancient times they researched that game thoroughly
MSmits: maybe it would explain some cave drawings :P
Astrobytes: That was during the Owarecene era
jacek: good morning
MSmits: when Robo's bot says -100 he lost?
MSmits: I am just wondering how a NN can solve this soon
eulerscheZahl: An error occurred (#UNAUTHORIZED): "You are not authorised to view replay 476766964".
MSmits: ahh right
MSmits: i forgot about that
MSmits: i cant share a cg bench game
struct: if you do share-replay in the link MSmits
eulerscheZahl: you can
struct: will it work?
eulerscheZahl: click the share button
MSmits: the share button isn there
jacek: na sharing
jacek: no caring
eulerscheZahl: screenshot or i don't believe you
struct: If he edits the link to https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/476766964
struct: and then opens it
struct: wont it share it?
Astrobytes: Button? For cg-bench?
MSmits: you dont need the link though, I was just referring to the -100 he says one ply after I solved it on my side
MSmits: so I am guessing he solved his loss
dbdr: that does not look very soon
MSmits: but NN's dont search very deep
MSmits: 16 plies before the end though
eulerscheZahl: i don't even care about the -100, just wanted to nag you
MSmits: i know :P
dbdr: very few legal moves
dbdr: tree is narrow
dbdr: why does NN not search very deep
dbdr: eval is more expensive?
MSmits: I think they have 10x less rollouts or something
MSmits: maybe even less than that
dbdr: must depend a lot on the network
MSmits: i guess good eval also does help you solve a bit sooner
dbdr: say it's linear in the number of weights
MSmits: might have been a fluke
MSmits: here i solve pretty late, but he solves much later even
MSmits: perhaps because he doesnt do his eval when there's just 1 child
struct: dbdr you have no opening book right?
dbdr: yet ;)
struct: Your bot early moves are optimal, even when oponent makes a mistake
MSmits: i think some training methods might basically encode an opening book within the weights. Early game positions occur much more often than middle game ones, so if you just train on games, you may train harder on the opening
dbdr: well, since I have no book, it makes no different what the opponent does
RoboStac: MSmits - yeah, -100 is I know I've lost
MSmits: ahh ok thought so
RoboStac: the policy from the nn means I search good moves effieciently
struct: Yeah dbdr but what I was trying to say is that you answer the wrong move with the perfect move
RoboStac: despite only eval'ing about 3000 positions per turn
MSmits: yeah that makes sense
MSmits: I eval 650k positions :P
dbdr: it means ntest has book entries for opponent "mistakes"?
struct: you can try the link I posted
dbdr: might not need it if it's a big mistake
dbdr: but they have different constraints
dbdr: space is not an issue
struct: even if opponent makes a mistake
struct: you can do a worse mistake after
RoboStac: was hoping for better from this submit, hadn't spotted tric had updated and msmits was now an issue :(
MSmits: well you put some distance between me and the fox so thats good
dbdr: true in principle, struct, but othello is short enough and close to draw, that one mistake is probably fatal, if you have a good enough search
MSmits: oware is even worse like that
MSmits: well its not short, but it has crazy loops
MSmits: 1 mistake does lead to loss
struct: Cant be worse than Yavalath
MSmits: hmm, its different
MSmits: yavalath is harder to solve probably
MSmits: but it has early game ends
MSmits: your dad is making you code?
MSmits: modern of him
MSmits: he coulda been making you practice baseball or something cliché like that
MSmits: small steps
Astrobytes: *we have rounders and cricket here MSmits
Astrobytes: No baseball.
MSmits: RARH do easy puzzles here
MSmits: the easiest ones should be doable
MSmits: you can pick what language you think is easiest
MSmits: small steps
MSmits: oh you mean the red color?
MSmits: thats what you see when someone types your name
MSmits: you can finish names with tab button on your keyboard
Astrobytes: This is definitely a link: https://www.codingame.com/training/easy
eulerscheZahl: it's a trao!
eulerscheZahl: i need an artist :(
MSmits: it seems 11 new easy puzzles were created since my last vacation in july last year
eulerscheZahl: *a good artist
eulerscheZahl: more like Zerplin
eulerscheZahl: go to your profile
eulerscheZahl: click the avatar
MSmits: put a random animal
MSmits: JBM euler is in a mood where he annoys people
eulerscheZahl: yes you did RARH
MSmits: you know how that is
eulerscheZahl: why do I annoy people?
MSmits: you said you were nagging me earlier :P
eulerscheZahl: you shared an invalid link
MSmits: thats true
eulerscheZahl: and i still need an artist
eulerscheZahl: that's MK style, Astrobytes
dbdr: was thinking the same :)
eulerscheZahl: clear your cache and reload RARH
RARH: done that
MSmits: I see fire
RARH: oooh it works now!
eulerscheZahl: come on
eulerscheZahl: 8 arms for the snowflake?
eulerscheZahl: stop puking off the fire
Astrobytes: Actually, that's accurate. Been eating a lot of bean chilli recently
MSmits: that explains it
jacek: they do :?
jacek: restart browser then
Astrobytes: that'll be the issue
69razer69: hey guys
69razer69: anyone solved the weekly challenge
jacek: overnight? youre some cg addict
Anonymous33: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
**Anonymous33 slaps Schwase around a bit with a large fishbot
eulerscheZahl: easy to code. needs a little thinking what to code
Zenoscave: Oh man I almost had a SSD bite the bullet
Zenoscave: just about lost a lot of private git repos I don't have backed up.
inoryy: aren't private git repos free now on github?
Zenoscave: Not sure
struct: they are
Zenoscave: should probably check
jacek: yes, but github belongs to m$, so
struct: up to N members I think
Zenoscave: Yes!!!! Good news everybody
Zenoscave: where's hypnotoad
eulerscheZahl: private repos are free for up to 3 collaborators
inoryy: jacek so..?
jacek: i dont trust them :v
eulerscheZahl: not everything MS does is bad
inoryy: are you hanging onto outdated stereotypes?
eulerscheZahl: .net core is under MIT license
inoryy: alright, what is your distrust based on
eulerscheZahl: i wouldn't install a windows on my personal computer. too much ways to collect your data and i don't like the OS itself
eulerscheZahl: but i don't hate MS as a whole company
jacek: i have windows only for the games
eulerscheZahl: only windows + MS office
Astrobytes: Apple kinda out-MS'd MS tbh
jacek: but i dont like windows 10 nagging and forces updates
eulerscheZahl: i only play old games that run with wine
jacek: better games are played with vodka
jacek: as for the elections, welp exit polls: 50.4% vs 49.6%
Astrobytes: To Duda?
inoryy: if you're studying in university I wonder if you're even old enough to remember why MS was hated for in the first place; peake of their cutt-throat and anti-consumer practices was almost 20 years ago
jacek: yes, but we need to wait for vote counting
Astrobytes: :/ best of luck
eulerscheZahl: back in those days when Linux was considered the enemy
MSmits: it's not anymore?
Astrobytes: Ah the antitrust case days, it almost doesn't feel like that long ago until I remember my age
eulerscheZahl: they even integrated a linux shell in windows
inoryy: point is that it's under a completely different leadership, arguably a different company basically.
Astrobytes: Very different.
Astrobytes: Anyway, it's Google everyone needs to worry about now eh inoryy :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
tomatoes: ads in paid OS
struct: ads in tvs :)
Astrobytes: On point.
caubeloatchoat24: Come here bros
eulerscheZahl: tomorrow this will be a kick *insert evil laughter*
eulerscheZahl: (just kidding)
Astrobytes: heh heh heh
jacek: all hail princess Luna
PatrickMcGinnisII: no one <3s Kali?
MSmits: your solver has a bug i think
jacek: well for oware i treat draw as lose
trictrac: yes thank you draw is bad managed
MSmits: kk np
jacek: copied from old code mcts, too lazy to change into draw
MSmits: lol ok
MSmits: is this normal or do i have a bug:
struct: you did not find loss?
MSmits: ahh no, it must be a bug
jacek: tomato did win with me like that or with dbd
tomatoes: both :sunglasses:
jacek: turn on legal moves
jacek: you get many legal moves, and trapot has many frontiers
MSmits: hmm ok
jacek: if your eval account for that, it will say its very good
MSmits: i dont do frontiers
MSmits: ohh I see
MSmits: I dont end the game properly I think
jacek: maybe your solver didnt kick in to ruin the fun
MSmits: yeah something like that
MSmits: i wonder if this is only my new version or that it also happened in the old
zombi3123: Is anyone else terrible at codinggame or just me? I'm rubbish and getting quite worried. Am I just dumb or what? I've just started my internship is this a sign I'll be useless and get sacked or what?
Schwase: m8 thats pretty hard for any of us to weigh in on. but id say if its an internship leading to employment, you should measure your success based on the tasks they give you, if its work study itd be awfully hard to lose the position without some form of rule breaking
Andriamanitra: none of us really know what we're doing, just keep grinding and checking stackoverflow for every stupid little thing
struct: What stuff are you doing zombi3123?
struct: I recommend puzzles over clash
struct: no time pressure
Uljahn: agreed, clashes are like 10% of experience CG can deliver
Uljahn: in multis you can test your ability to handle larger projects
thanhhv317: i come from vietnam
thanhhv317: where are u from?
thanhhv317: good morning
Kyojin_MasterX: morning for me
thanhhv317: sorry, i don't know about that
thanhhv317: here GTM +7