soraly: Mẫn Ăn Cứt
LelouchVC2: Neither will cancer
LelouchVC2: The dead people
JuliaPham: hello guy
JuliaPham: i'm a girlfriend =))
LelouchVC2: said no girl ever
JuliaPham: sory, it not enough
JuliaPham: i'm finding a girlfriend
BravenJuliet: that is my friend Lelouch :D
JuliaPham: Hello bro, how r u ?
BravenJuliet: i am fine thank you, and you :)
JuliaPham: not good =)), i'm trying some question in coding game, so difficult, ringht =))
khailq: you two are so gei
LeBaoHoang8A4: YOU are so good!
JuliaPham: @khailq, enjoy some game ?
LeBaoHoang8A4: Which grade are you, JuliaPham?
JuliaPham: i'm 22 years old bro
khailq: Hi i'm 11. Nice to meet you
JuliaPham: badboy @Khailq
DomiKo: how often rank is refreshed?
[CG]Thibaud: every night
Schwase: i usually avoid using forums on practice challenges until i finish it myself, should i be avoiding the forums if i want to solve them independently or are they typically more constructive rather than straight solutions/walkthroughs?
Uljahn: solutions are locked until you solve the puzzle at 100%, there could be some hints on the forums though
Uljahn: some puzzles have "discussions" tab on the landing page, others have dedicated forum threads
Uljahn: no plain solutions are allowed
Y0ursTruly: but what up with this reversemode
Hjax: are multi and contests cp formula different? besides decay on contests
Hjax: oh wait i cant read, nevermind
Magus: yes they are different:D
Uljahn: btw Magus what's happened to Automaton2000 on ru? it doesn't respond :(
Automaton2000: maybe i just need to fix my csb
DomiKo: finally reached my first legend :D
DomiKo: GrandMaster is comming today :)
dbdr: gg DomiKo! where?
WINWINWIN: Looks like CSB from his profile...
WINWINWIN: Nicely done :)
Hjax: i found a bug in my othello scoring function, fixed it, seems worse lol
Magus: Uljahn: it seems like i can't talk on ru myself oO
Magus: does the ru channel works at all ?
Hjax: the bug basically meant i was only doing mobility
Hjax: which is apparently better than anything else i could come up with
Uljahn: Magus: that's a bug with ru chat where you have to manually refresh the page :/
Uljahn: it was reported on discord some time ago
Magus: i'm using pidgin i can't refresh anything :D
Magus: well, i can leave and rejoin
Magus: hmmm .... Uljahn: i assume that if you have to leave/join the channel to see new messages, Automaton2000 has the same bug. He can't see any new message until he leave/join. But he can't do that.
Automaton2000: maybe it's just a way to fix it
DomiKo: Tron at the moment :D
DomiKo: iam trying to push my MCTS in UltimateTTT but it's not easy
WINWINWIN: Found that the best way to learn for UTTT is to wait for MSmits to log in and discuss with other guys like Astrobytes :)
Astrobytes: Well, I don't have a UTTT bot but for that kind of thing yeah :D
DomiKo: yea help in UTTT would be the best way
WINWINWIN: :) Havent gotten a clear understanding on MCTS yet.. But the minimax was heavily based on the chats :)
Hjax: i wrote a mcts for the first time not too long ago
Hjax: if you have any questions let me know WINWINWIN
DomiKo: i guess i know basic of MCTS
DomiKo: i know how it should work
DomiKo: but the hard part is
DomiKo: how to implement it correctly
DomiKo: and how to improve from full random
DomiKo: i reach 157 place in Gold, with like 20-30K rollouts
DomiKo: read whole forum
DomiKo: but not enough to reach legend
Astrobytes: Hm, afaik 20k + should be enough for UTTT?
Uljahn: i guess you have a bug or not optimal exploration constant
Hjax: im really confused why my proper eval is worse than just straight mobility
Uljahn: 20k on the second turn?
Astrobytes: And full random is OK for UTTT so you don't need to worry with any heuristics
reCurse: There's so many reasons it's hard to tell
Hjax: i wonder how long it would take me to get a UTTT submit from my othello one
Hjax: i think i still have a UTTT bitboard somewhere, so it might not take very long
dbdr: Hjax: try a minus sign in front of the non-mobility eval ;)
Astrobytes: ^ could well be that
DomiKo: yea 20K+ on second turn
Hjax: i definitely checked the signs
DomiKo: i will try to play with exploration contant
dbdr: don't check, just inverse it and try that :D
Hjax: if its better im going to be upset
dbdr: and happy, no?
Hjax: no, because i wont understand why its better
Hjax: ok its even worse with flipped sign lol
dbdr: did you spend time calculating the part you didn't use?
dbdr: otherwise it could be the benefit is perf
Hjax: i was calculating it, it was just wrong
Hjax: i was rewarding corners and penalizing the squares around corners
Hjax: but i was looking at the black bitboard for both players
Hjax: so it canceled out
dbdr: ah :D
dbdr: maybe your weights are too high
dbdr: for that part
Hjax: thats possible, i havent tuned anything
dbdr: tune this by dichotomy
dbdr: if the "ideal" value is closer to zero than to what you have, it would make sense
Hjax: is your eval function written by hand dbdr? or did you do some fancy training / tuning thing
Hjax: i should just stop being lazy and go write n-tuples or something
eulerscheZahl: my tshirt got shipped from Russia to Germany and back to Russia :'( https://prnt.sc/tdhlv1
reCurse: They don't hold your package in germany?
Hjax: did they try to deliver it, fail and give up?
eulerscheZahl: i have no idea what's going on
Hjax: return to send
Astrobytes: Do you have the tracking number to contact them with?
eulerscheZahl: my mailbox is large enough to put in a tshirt without even ringing the doorbell, so that should not be the issue
eulerscheZahl: and i got that list via tracking number
Astrobytes: I can only suggest you contact them directly, it could be an error
Astrobytes: I've had that happen before, tracking says it's gone AWOL and turns out to be a the local depot
Astrobytes: *at the
jacek: did i miss some uttt talk?
Hjax: jacek how many tuples is your eval function? did you generate them randomly or by hand?
jacek: 4x1 non overlapping horizontal tuples
jacek: then rotate board by 90 degress and use the same n tuples
jacek: i used 16 such n-tuples, but 4 could be enough but i was too lazy to make symmetries and whatnot
jacek: now i have different n-tuples. i created by hand
jacek: i experimented. i found nx1 are better than squares
jacek: though i could play more around the corners
Hjax: thats kind of surprising
Hjax: and you just trained using TD learning with selfplay?
Astrobytes: Kinda the opposite of what I would've thought.
Hjax: did you bootstrap it with a games database from the internet? or just started from scratch
jacek: from scratch
Hjax: thanks for sharing :D
jacek: and well, not only pure TD. after TD 'saturated'
TrapRNotGay: if only I could code away my depression, OH WAIT!
jacek: i let it play with itself, then i used 2-ply search for self supervised learning so my 0-ply value function would match better the 2-ply
jacek: several 100k of TD games, and about 50k of self-supervised thing
jacek: now i have 26k weights in my eval
Hjax: 26k O_O
Hjax: i wonder what dbdr is doing then lol
Hjax: if even that isnt enough to beat him
dbdr: let me count :)
DomiKo: you talk about OTHELLO?
Hjax: you guys are insane
Hjax: are you doing n-tuples dbdr?
dbdr: thanks :D
AndreiSchuch: I've found a solution for "Power of Thor - Episode 1" that uses only 2 if statements, but the character is not fast enough to reach his destination during "Easy angle" and "Optimal angle" test cases. I think there is a bug. :thinking:
Hjax: tomatoes and me are here with our cute little hand crafted evals
Hjax: at least i think tomatoe s is still using a hand crafted eval
dbdr: gg on #3 by the way, tomatoes
dbdr: 2 Rust in top 3 :)
dbdr: the decline of C++ has started ;)
Hjax: i want to join in, but i dont think im close
Hjax: i need to get a real eval
DomiKo: this game is like reversi?
tomatoes: i have fixed weight for corners and frontiers. and increasing closer to the end for moves
dbdr: 3 rust in top 10 is pretty good too
Hjax: how do you have 300k weights in the character limit
dbdr: they compress well
Hjax: i see
tomatoes: and it total fail for minimax, but good enough for evaled mcts
jacek: othello is (almost) reversi, yes
ZarthaxX: a puzzle
Astrobytes: BearthaxX o/
ZarthaxX: Astrothello :*
ZarthaxX: how is your spine Astrobytes
Astrobytes: No change ZarthaxX
Astrobytes: wlecato o/
Hjax: what would my name be? hcat?
Astrobytes: Or Catjax
Hjax: oooo new robo submit
Hjax: above the fox now
struct: rank 5 it seems
Astrobytes: Not too far above the fox tho
Astrobytes: tomatoes has a nice rank now
Astrobytes: (just noticed)
wlesavo: damn thats some dbd'recting
Hjax: he renounced losing games a while ago
Hjax: he had a perfect submit, only wins
struct: He had 2 I think
struct: He is at another level
jacek: robo wins against me
struct: yeah on last match
RoboStac: we both win if we're p1, lose as p2
jacek: matches are the same eh?
jacek: i have very granual eval
jacek: and my mcts doesnt have mc in it ;v
RoboStac: yeah, no randomness for me either and as it's a guided search it tends to be very deterministic
AbundantPuddle: :regional_indicator_t::regional_indicator_h::regional_indicator_i::regional_indicator_s: :regional_indicator_i::regional_indicator_s: :regional_indicator_t::regional_indicator_h::regional_indicator_e: :regional_indicator_n::regional_indicator_e::regional_indicator_w: :regional_indicator_f::regional_indicator_o::regional_indicator_n::regional_indicator_t:
Hjax: i saw i had a win against jacek and i got excited, and then i realized it was just a timeout
Astrobytes: yeah that's par for the course in Othello atm :)
struct: We need 1 more league :)
Astrobytes: Fox as boss?
struct: I guess
Astrobytes: Hard to pick one right now since robo is on the improvement
Hjax: why another league
Hjax: why any leagues at all
struct: I wonder if NN will work
Astrobytes: To hurt us more Hjax
struct: The wood 2 league is needed
Astrobytes: It will struct
Hjax: its not like it affects anything
Hjax: why is wood 2 needed
struct: Well it will make you play vs stronger players
Astrobytes: Hurt. A world of hurt.
Hjax: after a few games your rating is high enough to play strong people even with no leagues
struct: Well games in comunity multies are not many
struct: 80 games per submit
struct: Is not that much
Hjax: that seems like quite a few to me
struct: Yeah, its very low
Hjax: why is 80 low? as long as your rank is stable by the end it doesnt matter
jacek: and new league would make it lower
struct: I think in these games its no problem
struct: There are no random elements
jacek: just wait till it becomes puzzle of the week
Hjax: othello doesnt need leagues at all imo
Hjax: will it get many submissions if its puzzle of the week
struct: it wil get +1 player
Astrobytes: Actually, I'm a fan of 2 leagues minimum in community ,ultis
Astrobytes: So you can play against serious players
Hjax: i dont hate two leagues, but i dont see the benefit of more
Astrobytes: And separate the 'output last/first provided move" bots
RoboStac: I don't think more are needed unless it gets really popular
Hjax: which isnt likely lol
Hjax: community multis seem to stay tiny forever
jacek: no more loeagues, unless somehow they will allow for bronze and more
Astrobytes: I'm surprised more people don't go for the board game ones at least
Astrobytes: Lack of advertising I guess
Hjax: yeah community multis are at the bottom of the list, with few players and basically no codinpoints
Hjax: why would anyone play one
Astrobytes: Teh fun!
Hjax: the only reason im playing othello is because you guys wouldnt stop talking about it
jacek: not (much) exp from them
struct: 1000 points on Yavalath
struct: Rank 1 is easy /s
Hjax: i was going to play ghost in the cell
Astrobytes: Oh yeah, your legend in 1 submit :)
Astrobytes: Or delete account ofc
Hjax: yeah well now im working on othello instead :P
Leosalty: is bitwolf even real?
struct: If you click on their profile it will say its a bot
Astrobytes: Leosalty: https://www.codingame.com/blog/clash-of-code-time-has-come-for-clash/
Astrobytes: Explanations there
Leosalty: thank wasnt too confused, I just had an gut feeling and was right
Astrobytes: Alright guys, catch you all tomorrow, take care
Humble.Proletarian: get good
nickarshadi: hey guys lets nail this
nickarshadi: happy coding everybody
JuliaPham: Good morning bros
soraly: Good Nighr :v
JuliaPham: Nope =))