jacek: happy Caturday
dbdr: the real caturday: https://i.snipboard.io/0yTKeo.jpg
AntiSquid: voidsai ban @_@
polytuky: Hello, anyone like playing reverse mode?
WINWINWIN: For the interesting ones, but there are quite a few random reverse ones out there :)
polytuky: please follow and chơi only cái reverse thôi :))
HuyBuddy1704: follow rồi :)). mà không bt chỉnh cái reverse như nào :))
polytuky: xong chưa, mời đi :v
IsaldwhynoT: reverse yay!
HuyBuddy1704: có xài FB ko? xin cái link kb chơi :))
polytuky: Không, nghỉ ời
HuyBuddy1704: :v. V có xài MXH nào khác k?
polytuky: Có, mà t con trai mà, :v
HuyBuddy1704: biết mà :V
LelouchVC2: Please be Chinese somewhere else
LelouchVC2: That was Vietnam when they got bombed
eulerscheZahl: shouldn't it be #Cn ?
polytuky: Don't make war. Be kind to everyone. kid!
LelouchVC2: Yea that one
trunghautt: Choi ko ae
AhmedDev: Hope to win
Rush_iam: Is it just me or chat don't updates until I refresh browser page?
AhmedDev: no it's updating normally
Or64bit: Hey guys! I have a question: does bot programming require knowledge about AI or some kind of evolutionary algorithm, or is it about hardcoding stuff?
Rush_iam: I just got to last league of CodersStrikeBack and hardest it required - is to calc of path in few steps using provided physic's data... lot of trigonometry there and lot of thinking of how to play "smarter" than opponent. Not about hardcoding because each map is random and you have to deal with dynamicly changing conditions.
Scarfield: Or64bit you dont have to know about AI to start. You can get far with an if else bot
Scarfield: different kind of search functions is the most used for top bots. Where you simulate the game some turns ahead evaluate if the series of moves was good or bad, and then make your current move according to eval and some search algo
Astrobytes: Yes, sometimes we use minimax w/ alpha-beta pruning and other extensions, move ordering, transposition tables etc
Astrobytes: MCTS is also common, BFS + beam search, DFS, SA, GA, flat MC, etc
Astrobytes: Some people use a machine learning approach
Hjax: huh wood 1 gained someone new in othello
Astrobytes: yeah, daninj a crept in like... a ninja
Hjax: pretty strong too
Hjax: looks like if he resubmit he'd be above me
Astrobytes: Yeah, decent bot for sure
Hjax: i want to write a n tuples eval, but it seems like a lot of work
Astrobytes: jacek might give you some advice...
Hjax: i understand it
Hjax: its just a lot of code to write
Hjax: and im lazy
Hjax: got to generate the tuples and the mapping into the weights arrays, then train it a lot, and only then can i see if its an improvement
Astrobytes: Stick with improving your eval for now then and work on that one slowly
Hjax: my eval is terrible and i dont have good ideas for it :P
Hjax: which is part of why i want to do n-tuples
Astrobytes: lol, get yer finger out then :D
Hjax: this is my entire eval lol
Hjax: board_priority being the corners and board_priority being the squares around the corner
Astrobytes: moves, corners and squares next to corners?
Hjax: i tried frontiers but it made it worse
Astrobytes: You can weight other squares, then there's frontiers, stable discs, disc difference at different stagges
Hjax: i tried weighting other squares, frontiers, and disc difference
Hjax: none of those seemed to be an improvement
Hjax: stable discs seemed annoying to implement, so i havent tried that yet
Hjax: most n-tuples papers sort of randomly generate the tuples, im wondering if thats better than hand selected ones
Astrobytes: I didn't fully read the one I linked before yet tbh
Hjax: they seem to just say "i want 40 tuples of size 5" and then they pick a starting location, and then randomly pick a neighbor snake style until its the right size
Hjax: repeat 40 times
Astrobytes: Give it a shot, best way to test it
Hjax: the papers also index into the array with base 3, which seems annoying :P
Astrobytes: oh, ternary like trit/titboards
Astrobytes: Bundles of fun
Hjax: yeah, they use the configuration of the tuple as a base 3 number to index into the weights array
Hjax: which is just, gross
Hjax: whats even the fastest way to convert two binary numbers into one base 3 number
Hjax: thats not a problem ive tried before
Astrobytes: Ask MSmits, he uses it for something, might have been UTTT, not 100%
KshitijSharma: Which IDE?
struct: doesnt robo also uses Titboards?
Astrobytes: Not sure tbh
struct: What was the puzzle?
Astrobytes: tag the guy and ask if he wants to share in PM or something
RocketRidah: not everyone feels comfortable publishing it. some people may not legally be able to publish it. it's a tricky problem to solve. it would be nice to be asked if we wanted to default to sharing or not at some point in tutorial maybe.
HelloWorld183L: hey guys, does the Defibrillator puzzle really require an exact position or just really close? I don't know how I am supposed to use exact arithmetic in C# whilst working with Math lib trig functions
eulerscheZahl: floating point arithmetic is accurate enough
eulerscheZahl: maybe you didn't convert between degrees and radians?
eulerscheZahl: trust me: the puzzle is perfectly solvable. it's a bug in your code, not a lack of accuracy
eulerscheZahl: the input is given in degrees
eulerscheZahl: yes, defibrilator coords are given in degrees, while the formula requires radians
eulerscheZahl: i only remember this because it's commonly asked on the chat
eulerscheZahl: sometimes testcases are poorly designed
eulerscheZahl: i don't remember getting such a popup
eulerscheZahl: doesn't really matter what you click there heavygabriel
eulerscheZahl: yes Schwase
eulerscheZahl: i just computed the values one after another. using recursion if necessary
eulerscheZahl: some languages allow deeper recursion than others
struct: In which puzzle?
eulerscheZahl: space maze?
eulerscheZahl: i see. there's another space thingy: https://www.codingame.com/training/expert/space-maze
StuartWFuller: im trying so hard to get back into programming so thought i would give this a go. man does it make me feel stupid
StuartWFuller: I still study at uni but took a year off
StuartWFuller: I havent touched it for a year so i need to refresh
StuartWFuller: i just need to get some sort of knowledge back before my final year lol
eulerscheZahl: ok, here's my list task: given a double linked list, revert the order in linear time and constant additional memory
eulerscheZahl: sorry to tell you but you didn't nail it
eulerscheZahl: i share that weakness with you
eulerscheZahl: puzzles look fine for me. it's not like you want to spend weeks looking at them. they are just to clarify what's going on
eulerscheZahl: and some multiplayer games look really nice IMO
wlesavo: euler dll cant have loops by definition? i mean in single pass each elment only encountered once?
eulerscheZahl: dll? the dynamically linked library?
wlesavo: doubly linlked list :slight_smile:
eulerscheZahl: oh :D
eulerscheZahl: just a list, each element only once
wlesavo: hm, so its probably quite easy to reverse in linear time in two passes
eulerscheZahl: but how do you do it with constant memory overhead then?
eulerscheZahl: there is a way with only 1 pass
eulerscheZahl: and heavygabriel is right: it can be googled
eulerscheZahl: my first language
eulerscheZahl: turbo pascal 7, with an IDE older than myself
wlesavo: well two is still linear, by ill google the single one
Astrobytes: Other than German ;)
wlesavo: eulers first words was program wincrt
eulerscheZahl: 28 to be more accurate
eulerscheZahl: in school. old teacher
Astrobytes: Everyone here is older than you heavygabriel
Astrobytes: Apart from that other guy
wlesavo: also 28 and also had pascal in school actually :slight_smile:
Astrobytes: In highschool, my computing studies teacher didn't know anything about programming
eulerscheZahl: wlesavo = eulerscheZahl's 2nd account confirmed
eulerscheZahl: same Astrobytes, corrected my teacher a few times
wlesavo: the question is should they ban main or alt account?
Astrobytes: I'm 37 and the only 'programming' I did in school was in primary school, LOGO on a BBC microcomputer
Astrobytes: eulerscheZahl my one literally didn't even teach any programming
Astrobytes: Hardware only
Astrobytes: Thankfully I was the inquisitive type and explored at home
eulerscheZahl: the year after me did this as "programming" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngndgqTAlwI
eulerscheZahl: sorry for German, just fast-forward to see some action on the screen
Astrobytes: lol, seriously. Logo is better
eulerscheZahl: i have a little experience with SPS programming in Simatic Manager. I guess it's very similar to Logo?
wlesavo: Smitsimatic Manager :open_mouth:
struct: Im 15 so not that hold
eulerscheZahl: not old but a liar
eulerscheZahl: or you measure time in something else than years
eulerscheZahl: Imperial years or such nonsense
wlesavo: programming age
Astrobytes: eulerscheZahl: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logo_(programming_language)
struct: Im not sure I revealed my age before hmm
Astrobytes: We used Acornsoft version
Astrobytes: 20-something I reckon struct
eulerscheZahl: oh, i assumed this: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logo_(SPS) - there isn't even an English version of this article
struct: yeah 20 somthing
wlesavo: even russian version, lol, also assumed it was some kind of programmed calculator
Astrobytes: I wish we were doing stuff like that in school, fairly close in physics but no actual programming
struct: stockfish 41-49-3 vs komodo in 12' 3 time control
Astrobytes: I got warned off pursuing a computer based education by my biology teacher actually, he said "you'll learn all the programming you need for biology at uni"
eulerscheZahl: the first step is always the hardest
eulerscheZahl: when you have some basic understanding, it gets easier
eulerscheZahl: and when you know one language, it's easier to learn another one (except Haskell)
Astrobytes: Having a solid grasp of maths helps too, and logical thinking, problem solving
Astrobytes: Apply yourself and stop f'ing about.
Astrobytes: (essentially :P )
Astrobytes: Focus is important. Don't distract yourself, be target-oriented. Don't spam rubbish.
eulerscheZahl: it's much easier to get into coding now than it was when we were at your age. tons of online tutorials
Astrobytes: I had code in magazines to learn from and sometimes examples on disk. Other than that, a manual.
Astrobytes: You should understand computer architecture at least at a reasonable level, how programs work in relation to the architecture etc
Astrobytes: Learn about memory, how the processor... processes... it'll make life easier even if you never touch a systems language
Astrobytes: Learn about languages and how they work, how they are interpreted or compiled
Astrobytes: Focus on one language to start with, after that, things will begin to click into place
eulerscheZahl: yeah, that's usually where you stop
Astrobytes: But you have to apply yourself.
eulerscheZahl: not going down to transistors and how they work
Astrobytes: That's good fun too
eulerscheZahl: had than in my Bachelor (studied Electrical Engineering)
Astrobytes: Well choose your tools for web dev and choose your tools for otherwise and stick to them.
eulerscheZahl: 2 screens are really helpful when creating UIs
Astrobytes: All our EE-based stuff was done in physics classes in highschool, then a little in 'tech studies', but there was nothing really dedicated
Astrobytes: Electrical Engineering, was replying to euler
eulerscheZahl: i didn't get the EE either
eulerscheZahl: was thinking of Java EE (enterprise edition)
eulerscheZahl: or evil edition, as thedailywtf tells us
Schwase: oh i feel so dumb i couldnt get 100 for so long in 1d spreadsheet because i was using substring to eliminate the "$" symbol when it was used as a reference and i did substring(1,2) instead of substring(1) and made a loop :||||||
Astrobytes: Yeah I know it
eulerscheZahl: it has a query string?
eulerscheZahl: whatever, i'm off. good night
Astrobytes: lol night eulerscheZahl
tomatoes: all io
jacek: and multithreading
tomatoes: pencil and paper
Astrobytes: It's just a set of instructions to accomplish a task.
Astrobytes: In the simplest terms, think about making a sandwich. Write down all the steps you need to take. Boom. Sandwich algorithm
Astrobytes: Of course it gets harder than that, and it's a simplification, but it's really just a set of rules to solve a particular problem
Astrobytes: You'll see a lot of notation that describes algorithms, that may be confusing at first
Astrobytes: Yes, context dependent of course
AhmedMasry: how is the site calculate the shortest code it's obviuos that python will always be the lowest =D
Astrobytes: No. Sometimes ruby, or perl, and bash
AhmedMasry: can I win using c++ does it depends on charcters or what ?
jacek: its characters only
jacek: so no handicap for c++
Astrobytes: Yes, characters. Don't try shortest with C++ or any other verbose lang :)
AhmedMasry: it's not fair :joy:
struct: It's fair
struct: You can also choose ruby
struct: So a guy is playing 4 clashes at once
struct: completes them all
struct: not suspicious
Astrobytes: seems legit
struct: yeah top 3
Astrobytes: How do you know he's doing 3 at once?
struct: Because I left them all
Astrobytes: *4 sorry
struct: and he insta joined the next
struct: And then I checked and he completed all
struct: while he was in the other
struct: All were playing and he still did not submit
struct: These are not 1 minute clashes btw
Astrobytes: But he's insta-solving and its not a CG bot
Astrobytes: Who is it?
Astrobytes: Oh yeah, seen him post here
Astrobytes: He might just be copy pasting his solutions
DiL: I join multiple clashes at once to find the ones I like the most
struct: yet you completye all?
struct: makes no sense
DiL: nope, in some I loose
Astrobytes: Oi RocketRidah, always RTFM! Solved right?
Astrobytes: (temperatures puzzle that is)
Astrobytes: It happens :)
Astrobytes: Screen breaks ftw
Zenoscave: Did they resub tmeps golf again?
Zenoscave: No. But it is a site that is intended to motivate you to learn new languages. so perhaps learning a new language is a better solution
ryantimjohn: Yeah, the best code golfers will have a lot of languages in their back pocket to be like... ruby has a one line, 80 char solution to this
LelouchVC2: Learn a new language in order to win shortest mode which requires you to destroy the readability and reliability of your code ;)
LelouchVC2: Sounds like a good way to destroy good programming practices rather than enforce them onto coders learning a new language
Hannnn: hows everyone doing
Hannnn: feeling good?
No_one...: oh yeah, happy 4th of july everyone
LelouchVC2: Where Black Lives matter
LelouchVC2: What a strange concept
LelouchVC2: The world may never know
LelouchVC2: We can joke about 9/11, but too soon to joke about black lives
LelouchVC2: My bad, we can joke about being gay
LelouchVC2: Reddit sold out an underage teen to CNN who then wrote a page about him basically blackingmailing
LelouchVC2: After the kid made a meme about trump beating up CNN
B=B.substring(0,B.indexOf("f"))+"..."+B.substring(B.indexOf("f")+3); n++; }
tomatoes: f is last or before last