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eulerscheZahl: Hjax not here anymore i guess. that's an official referee. you have to modify it to follow the stdin-stdout protocol of the brutaltester

TranQuocHuy: :(((

WINWINWIN: Last 5 min of contest

WINWINWIN: At least I can stay in the top 100 :)

WINWINWIN: contest over, well done everyone

jacek: happy Caturday

WINWINWIN: Happy Caturday jacek

WINWINWIN: Sorry for that previous message on the contest being over :joy: I misread the date on the website...

WINWINWIN: It ends tomorrow

jacek: phew


cegprakash: hi all

cegprakash: did the PR contest end?

cegprakash: okay I see it's not ended yet

cegprakash: I don't want to read the problem statement can someone tell it in short

cegprakash: should I try PR1 in order to understand PR2?

eulerscheZahl: no, these are 2 different games

cegprakash: i give up..

cegprakash: tool long to read

cegprakash: I go to paper soccer

Astrobytes: lol, you're some guy ceg

Astrobytes: :D

cegprakash: u missed "awe" before "some"

Astrobytes: lol

struct: ceg nver open Yinsh

Astrobytes: :D


struct: I added these

struct: For legal moves

struct: So people dont need to read

struct: I might disable it though

cegprakash: ^ that's not PR2

eulerscheZahl: you mean disable by default and hide behind a togglle?

struct: yeah

struct: Ok, I switched some stuff, now I don't think it looks so bad

jacek: mhm

struct: not submited yet

struct: Ill fix statement next

struct: Ok all done I think


struct: 46000 moves???

struct: on connect 6

jacek: well you have 2 moves per turn

struct: ah

Astrobytes: So LoA or Amazons next?

eulerscheZahl: is that a google question?

Astrobytes: Close, it's a struct question

struct: I don't know yet

struct: I enjoyed both

Astrobytes: Yeah, both great games

struct: I never played any though

struct: I don't really played any of the games I ported

Astrobytes: You can play them online to get a feel for the rules

struct: I would port the river one to change the type a bit

struct: But I don't really like random games

Astrobytes: Try it with both players receiving the same tile

Astrobytes: or the same choice of n tiles

struct: euler do you know where I can find more documentation about SDK?

struct: Version 3.15.0 seems to be released, but can't find any info about it

struct: oh even 3.15.2

eulerscheZahl: it's not in the release notes. so: commit messages

struct: TooltipData TooltipDto

struct: This is new right?

struct: GameResult GameResultDto

struct: Maybe not

eulerscheZahl: no idea

struct: But yeah,

struct: easy to see here

struct: "Improve statement editor"

eulerscheZahl: oh, just not reflected on

struct: yeah


struct: way better

eulerscheZahl: they changed default avatars? :scream:

eulerscheZahl: no more king


struct: lol

Astrobytes: :D

struct: I think I'm gonna do gota

Default avatar.png JBM: how d'you get the pix on the CG CDN?

struct: what do you mean JBM?

Default avatar.png JBM: your pictures

Default avatar.png JBM: how did you get them linked from CG?

struct: to the replay?

Default avatar.png JBM: from the html

struct: ah in the statement?

Default avatar.png JBM: yes, thath

struct: ok

struct: I submit the pictures on asset folder

struct: then I do this, let me screen shot

Default avatar.png JBM: i don't think i've got an immediate need for this

Default avatar.png JBM: but i haven't seen this really documented anywhere, i'mcurious

struct: This is because its not straight forward

struct: Its like fixing stuff with hammer

struct: When you submit a new image on assets folder


struct: It will create a link

struct: If you dont change the image or delete it, the link wont change

struct: So I just update the statement after, with the link from the previous submit

Default avatar.png JBM: so you just name them normally and the sdk translates accordingly?

Default avatar.png JBM: gtg, i'll read you later

struct: Yeah, I can put any name, I just need to submit one time to get the links to update the statement

Astrobytes: struct - Othello seems finished, are you planning any more changes?

struct: I think it's fine like this

Astrobytes: Everything seems to be OK, legal moves, valid move input all matches up with viewer and map input

Astrobytes: Seems to be ready for approval imo

struct: Should be

struct: But I think the game gets more visibility on Contribution page

struct: :p

Astrobytes: lol :)

Astrobytes: All default code in all langs works, or doesn't crash at least, I'll give it an approve

struct: Thanks

Astrobytes: :+1:

eulerscheZahl: entries on contribute page: 28 entries in multiplayer section: 45

eulerscheZahl: keep it pending :P

struct: Also dont forget that you get red notification on contribution page

struct: when a multi gets aproved you dont get any notification do you?

eulerscheZahl: no

eulerscheZahl: make it private and WIP again. at least once per day

struct: lol

yassineH: guys how can i find all the puzzle someone contributed...???

yassineH: i only have the name of the user...

eulerscheZahl: CTRL+F, enter username

eulerscheZahl: loading the page may take a second or 2, lots of content

yassineH: ok thx


struct: :'(

eulerscheZahl: seems i indexed it before you deleted

eulerscheZahl: i still have the bitrunner bosses in my DB (but don't output that part)

yassineH: hello again @eulerscheZahl , the solutions you provided was exact but i could not find one of his contributions.. it is a ClashOfCode i just played few mins ago.. anyways, is it possible that some of the contributions dont appear in that list??

yassineH: *solution

yassineH: if so, then how can i find it...

yassineH: i still have the text of the challenge.. and of course the name of the user..

eulerscheZahl: maybe it's very now and i have to index again...

WINWINWIN: someone approve othello, I want to try it in the arena

eulerscheZahl: 9 puzzles added. try again yassineH

struct: You can work on it in demo

struct: Its just less games played

yassineH: @eulerscheZahl thx alot, i just find it..

eulerscheZahl: note: you can also add a text to filter and search for

eulerscheZahl: that is: a part of the statement or testcases

struct: euler do you think it matter if notation starts from 1 to 10 bottom

struct: instead of 10 to 1

eulerscheZahl: no

eulerscheZahl: as long as it's clear how the notation works it's fine i think

struct: Yeah, I think the same

eulerscheZahl: we have some inconsistency in other games too. e.g. UTTT uses y,x while most others have x,y

eulerscheZahl: much more annoying for me :P

yassineH: @eulerscheZahl btw is this a personal project? i mean that link you shared with me...

eulerscheZahl: yes

eulerscheZahl: there is no official puzzle search

yassineH: that is cool..

yassineH: how do you actualy get the data?

eulerscheZahl: there is an overview page with all approved puzzles. you need level 29 to see them

yassineH: oh, ok..

eulerscheZahl: and opening the page on CG kills the tab because the list is too long :D

struct: :D

yassineH: i see

yassineH: btw i think you search input does not include the sub-title of the items (mean the user name of the contributer "puzzle_type by user_name")

yassineH: *your

yassineH: *meaning

eulerscheZahl: correct: i don't check the username

eulerscheZahl: only statement, testcases, comments made by other users

eulerscheZahl: and the title of course

yassineH: ok thank you again for sharing, and have a nice day

eulerscheZahl: you too :)

struct: euler I need your feedback again, sorry to bother you


struct: Imagine this scenario, white only has 8 moves left

struct: black has 31

struct: Neither of white moves can impact black moves

struct: Should I end game earlier?

struct: Oh this might be a bit hard to do

struct: if piece at d1 doesnt make white stuck

struct: it still has 1 move

eulerscheZahl: guidelines: end game early if it won't change the winner

eulerscheZahl: i don't know the rules of the game to answer that

Astrobytes: It's last man standing struct

struct: yeah astro, but if player cant win anymore

struct: should it continue?

eulerscheZahl: guidelines say: no but if it's not directly obvious, maybe you should still keep going

eulerscheZahl: lots of complaining users

eulerscheZahl: cegs

struct: He complained about Othello statement right?

struct: I wasnt here at the time, so I dont know

Astrobytes: Implement it as it should be at first, and lets test it

struct: You are right

struct: Ill see how it goes

Astrobytes: Don't forget that people can block their amazons in error

Astrobytes: So losing when they should have won

struct: Yeah, that can happen

struct: But it shouldnt with good bots

Astrobytes: ofc

eulerscheZahl: if it can happen, play till the end

Astrobytes: And even though it's like a two-phase action, I think just keeping it as MOVE_SQUARE SHOOT_SQUARE is fine

Astrobytes: Well, obviously with starting square or unit ID first

struct: will be like a4 a6 a8

Astrobytes: yeah

struct: unitpos moveto arrowpos

Astrobytes: exactly

Astrobytes: afk for a bit

Astrobytes: Hm, a rejection because someone doesn't like it? How about just not playing it?

struct: ...

struct: I saw

struct: I mentioned it in fr

Astrobytes: Yeah I saw

struct: Its just not about being 1 more MCTS game

struct: at least from what I read in fr chat

Astrobytes: Wow

Astrobytes: That's just... not why you reject a contribution

eulerscheZahl: i dislike the troll vs castle game (too random). not a fan of search race either (CSB clone). but that's a personal opinion, not sure if it would justify a refuse. you are not forced to play every game

Astrobytes: Indeed.

eulerscheZahl: but :popcorn:

Astrobytes: And as for 0 originality - it's a straight port of a board game...

eulerscheZahl: keep going with more of those games

struct: Also why should we even spend a lot of time on contributions

struct: CG doesnt reward it

struct: Even if I create an original game

struct: it doesnt get promoted

eulerscheZahl: we should stick to what CG gives us and not use our own opinion for moderations:

eulerscheZahl: Contributions must be original. (for all games but Clash of Code)

i guess that's his point for refusal

eulerscheZahl: but questionable, IMO unique enough

struct: Well how many puzzles use same algorithm?

Snef: original = not close to an existing multi or not copy pasted from a real game ?

eulerscheZahl: other CG game

eulerscheZahl: adding additional value to the platform

Snef: well it is (for me) original then

Astrobytes: Do they think we can't read French or something btw?

struct: If the game was checkers on 10 x 10 I could understand

Snef: othello is one of the easiest board game to play

struct: Well w/e people are entilted to their opinion, I just don't think that was good enough reason to refuse it

eulerscheZahl: reminds me of the wikipedia community (which differs depending on languages)

eulerscheZahl: some are like "if 1 or 2 users read that article and it helps them, let's approve this article"

eulerscheZahl: German community: this topic isn't relevant enough, delete

eulerscheZahl: same here: not sure if i will ever play Othello. But i know a few users who will have fun with it

Astrobytes: Not good enough eulerscheZahl, you must say one thing and chat then reject the contribution and fail to mention that fact

Astrobytes: *in chat

struct: If I hate a game i just ignore it

Astrobytes: ^

eulerscheZahl: my bad. can we have a contribution that gets refused, then reuploaded and approved?

struct: yeah

eulerscheZahl: i know some users who hate it when that happens :D

struct: Nothing prevents it

eulerscheZahl: rhetorical question

struct: ah I answered too afst :p

struct: fast*

Astrobytes: euler's in thinking-ahead troll mode :P

eulerscheZahl: happened a few times in the past, they got really mad

Astrobytes: lol, some people are seriously way too sensitive

eulerscheZahl: understandably if it was a bogus clash approved by some users with green rank

Astrobytes: Yes of course, but otherwise if it was a perfectly valid contribution...

eulerscheZahl: actually I respect them: they raise overall quality. giving justified feedback, editing puzzles even after approval (stub generator, statement, ..)

struct: If I add fog of war, will my contribution be original?

eulerscheZahl: :D

Astrobytes: Oh I agree there euler, in fact a few have stopped even doing so because of CGs rules

Astrobytes: (wrt clashes at least)

struct: Clash is completely differnt from 2 years ago

struct: So many math problems

struct: Its ridicolous

bao555: hi

Astrobytes: I guess it appeals to a certain demographic

yassineH: hello again @eulerscheZahl , here is a "i dont know what i am doing with my time" kind of contribution to the following link you share :


yassineH: contribution :


yassineH: #just run this in the console...

yassineH: #sorry_for_wasting_your_time hhh

eulerscheZahl: that style is quite blue

bao555: hello world

yassineH: yap

yassineH: i am a big fan of blue

eulerscheZahl: i might do some visual cleanup one day. definitely needed

eulerscheZahl: but not that blue ;)

Astrobytes: The style is nice if not the colour scheme :D

yassineH: @eulerscheZahl hhhh, i would love to help if you would let me..

struct: are RAIC games original enough?

eulerscheZahl: define a stylesheet that is less agressive and i'll add it

Astrobytes: lol

yassineH: @Astrobytes thx/2

struct: Sorry I got a bit salty

yassineH: @eulerscheZahl challenge accepted

eulerscheZahl: nice

eulerscheZahl: send me a private message in case i'm offline when you are done

Astrobytes: No I understand totally struct

eulerscheZahl: don't let that 1 reaction ruin your day struct

eulerscheZahl: we are still cheering for you

Astrobytes: And you have completely silenced fr by speaking English

Snef: struct create another contrib that is othello with dynamic board size in reponse

struct: Thanks, I'm well aware that my games are not original

struct: Snef I dont even need to do tha I just need to change 2 values

Astrobytes: Physics-based, no board, in space

struct: and it should work

Snef: yea but you need to do another contrib

eulerscheZahl: like coders of the realm :imp:

yassineH: @eulerscheZahl sure will

eulerscheZahl: :thumbsup:

struct: But Snef it will still be dominated by MCTS

Snef: struct i know it was waying that just to annoy those who refused othello ;)

Snef: -w +s

Snef: -t

Stilgart: Astrobytes: #fr is often dead those days :(

Astrobytes: Really? It used to be busy always!

Stilgart: it is during contests

Stilgart: but otherwise, it can be pretty empty

Astrobytes: Ah, I guess it's kinda the same for World. It's been a little busier recently though.

eulerscheZahl: #de is dead

eulerscheZahl: :cactus:

eulerscheZahl: :desert:

struct: To me feels like CG is :(

eulerscheZahl: we need a contest. a real one, not that PR2 fake contest

Astrobytes: Nah, not dead. There are enough regular users who like to hack away at things. But definitely more so than it used to be.

struct: Yeah, contest are what keep site alive imo

Astrobytes: I think if thibpat can coordinate a proper contest with an original contribution it would be a success

eulerscheZahl: or if we can convince Thibaud when we have a game

Astrobytes: Yes, that also

eulerscheZahl: that is: not spoiled and more original than othello :P

eulerscheZahl: sorry struct

Astrobytes: :D

struct: I wouldn't mind, but I don't really have ideas

eulerscheZahl: join me?

struct: Sure euler

eulerscheZahl: private then

Astrobytes: Woop woop!

Stilgart: struct: as I said earlier on #fr, I would rather have you working with others on original ideas

Stilgart: your engines are nice, so are your statements

Astrobytes: Yes, although I'm a fan of the board games it would indeed be nice to see him work on something original.

Astrobytes: Stilgart: re bitboards

Astrobytes: Not sure if it's this one you're looking for but it's useful

Stilgart: it was the one (dwarfie and I had a different link for it though)

Stilgart: struct: I was thinking that, for yout othello, maybe you can sell the bitboard part, which is more original than the mcts part

struct: Sorry, was talking with euler

Astrobytes: Ah ok. It's a very useful paper.

struct: Yeah I agree that working with others might make it easier to create an original game

Stilgart: yep, might be worth to give this link in the statement

struct: I remember this link from Yavalath :D

Stilgart: (I never opened this one... too many puzzles these days)

darkhorse64: This paper is mostly irrelevant for Yavalath

Stilgart: but it is relevant for othello

struct: But I remember it being mentioned around that time

darkhorse64: Sure

Astrobytes: I also agree that a Bitboard(ing) tag should be added struct

struct: There is bitboarding tag

struct: Should I use that one?

Astrobytes: Yeah

struct: Only 1 puzzle uses it, and its not really a puzzle

struct: its a tech io thing

Stilgart: then, you have your source of motivation for othello

Astrobytes: Breakthrough has it

Stilgart: but is is more advanced in othello

darkhorse64: Upvote this game !!

struct: oh so its that one, if I search bitboarding on search bar nothing appears

struct: only tech io guide

darkhorse64: Actually, you can bitboard Onitama, Oware. Yavalath is where you can really do smart things

struct: One day I'll try the games I ported

darkhorse64: For Yavalath, the competition has been really fierce in the top 10

struct: It was quite active

struct: At a time

darkhorse64: I have fond memories of it because I learned really a lot

leojean890: first players have nice openers on yavalath

leojean890: makes me think of gomoku (I played that a lot)

leojean890: 5 in a row without gravity and 15*15 or 20*20 board

darkhorse64: you mean, openings ?

leojean890: yes

darkhorse64: #1 has an opening book

leojean890: I think I am around #30 on yavalath

leojean890: oh ok

leojean890: I watch their games et those openings seem to be really good

leojean890: I hesitated to hardcode the same :P

leojean890: not done yet xD

leojean890: ow it's MSmits

darkhorse64: I have no book except for the first move choice

leojean890: I use my own heuristic for the moment to try to block the opponent

leojean890: so you have something for the first move, and MSmits has more openings

darkhorse64: If he finds a line that leads him to a loss that his bot is unable to solve, he adds it to his book

darkhorse64: He went quite deep in his search

Astrobytes: "quite deep" :D

eulerscheZahl: as in: berserk mode

leojean890: I heard that some people do that for UTTT :P

darkhorse64: The same guy

leojean890: if they lose, they play the situation locally

leojean890: of ok

leojean890: oh ok*

leojean890: and then it's hardcoded :)

eulerscheZahl: only a random map generator can prevent that kind of gameplay

darkhorse64: Yes, it's efficient but is it really fun ?

leojean890: yeah, but it's not possible for every game :P

leojean890: maybe less fun to use hardcode

leojean890: I did it for some optims

leojean890: A*Craft mostly

leojean890: 15 lvl for A*Craft, 2 lvls for CvsZ

darkhorse64: The fun is in the making of the book, the tools, the encoding

leojean890: yes

Astrobytes: Smits loves doing this stuff. The solving (or not), the search, the 'thrill of the chase' I guess

Astrobytes: That's what it's all about

leojean890: making local research opens more ways to exploit :)

Astrobytes: And he's bloody good at it too :)

eulerscheZahl: he's really passionate to play the game for a long time

Astrobytes: Yes, he has an admirable tenacity

leojean890: he seems to go deep on analysis of games yes :)

leojean890: some people do the same for CSB

leojean890: I have just begun this multi

leojean890: with an easy -3vel for the moment

eulerscheZahl: try -e*v

leojean890: oh ok e instead of 3 :P

leojean890: should do a simulator one day for this game and search algo :P

jrke: what is e euler

leojean890: exp(1)

eulerscheZahl: eulerscheZahl in German :P

Astrobytes: e = eulerscheZahl

eulerscheZahl: classic

Astrobytes: :D

leojean890: e = e^1

Default avatar.png JBM: i discovered this (U+2107) a few months ago: ℇ

eulerscheZahl: i don't get the message behind that unicode. that's an epsilon, isn't it?

jrke: oh so e=eulerscheZalh another constant


**MostComplicatedUsername will not click on a random link she does not recognize

MostComplicatedUsername: Wow, I'm so smart :stuck_out_tongue:

Dan4Life: Are there bots in clash of code?

leojean890: nope ;p

leojean890: only multis

leojean890: and not all

leojean890: of them

Dan4Life: I keep seeing the same people or they just like playing so much...

leojean890: maybe they are bots

eulerscheZahl: clash of code? bots!

leojean890: or real players playing a lot but I think bots:P


eulerscheZahl: everything above 10k is a bot

Dan4Life: Ahhh... I see

Dan4Life: So I've been playing with bots this whole time!

Astrobytes: All explained here Dan4Life:

jrke: i noticed some bots by my own like tychkorg,lanner,etc

Dan4Life: AlkhilJohn

jrke: is alkhijohn a bot or real man

leojean890: they enable people to be able to play when they want even if no real player is there

Dan4Life: I think he is a bot tho

Dan4Life: So that means few people play cuz I see at least 3-4 evry single match

Dan4Life: How about Unnamed Player

Dan4Life: Is he a bot?


WINWINWIN: if CG made a bot, they give nicknames

Astrobytes: And lots of real people do clash, just not all the time. The bots use real solutions from players.

Dan4Life: I just found out you could check if they wer e bots from their accounts

Default avatar.png CFrost: how?

Default avatar.png CFrost: oh nevermind

Default avatar.png JBM: eulerscheZahl: it's unicode "EULER CONSTANT" (formerly "EULERS") (epsilon is U+03B5)

Default avatar.png JBM: eulerscheZahl: no idea why it's represented as an epsilon, though

Default avatar.png JBM: ε ℇ Ε (lowercase epsilon, euler constant, uppercase epsilon)

eulerscheZahl: that's what i see:


Default avatar.png JBM: that's mostly what i see as well

MostComplicatedUsername: Dan4Life there are bots

MostComplicatedUsername: Oh lol I just scrolled down

eulerscheZahl: Axel Voss (German politician) detects those by the gmail address. only bots would use a gmail to complain about his politics

leojean890: there are many "unnamed player" on CG right ?

leojean890: even in the top sometimes

eulerscheZahl: happens when someone decides to delete the account

eulerscheZahl: or never set a nickname

struct: even Yavalath has that...

leojean890: yeah, I tjought about the 2nd case :P

struct: on the creator

leojean890: didn't think about account deletion

Default avatar.png d-d: are the practice puzzle meant to feel difficult ? cause im struggling

eulerscheZahl: they have a difficulty assigned, from easy to very hard

eulerscheZahl: the latter ones aren't supposed to be easy

eulerscheZahl: these should be doable when you know the basics

struct: The easier puzzles are, The descent, Power of Thor, horse-racing

MostComplicatedUsername: I keep timing out on the river

MostComplicatedUsername: But I can't figure out how to cut down the length of the loop

eulerscheZahl: share code or idea

MostComplicatedUsername: Ummm idk what my code does I wrote this a year ago

MostComplicatedUsername: lol

eulerscheZahl: and now you are wondering why it doesn't pass? :D

eulerscheZahl: delete it, start again

MostComplicatedUsername: Well, I was reminded of it when d mentioned easy puzzles

MostComplicatedUsername: Okay...

eulerscheZahl: do you store all reached numbers?

eulerscheZahl: that's common among those players who fail to solve it

MostComplicatedUsername: idk, I know that it should work if there wasn't a time limit, because it's passing all the test cases except for the last

MostComplicatedUsername: I think I'll just delete it and start again

eulerscheZahl: I solved that in 21 lines of Ruby (MK mode activated)

Astrobytes: Where did he disappear off to anyway?

eulerscheZahl: the desert where CSB was recorded

eulerscheZahl: the movie scene

Astrobytes: lol

Astrobytes: to merge together as one, finally

Astrobytes: Anton Skywalker

MostComplicatedUsername: O:-)

MostComplicatedUsername: 0:-)

MostComplicatedUsername: huh

eulerscheZahl: :angel:

ekym: gg elym winning

eulerscheZahl: oh, you are not SeizedSilver

Brokolis: eulersche - are you employed?

Brokolis: I am just asking because any time I come on, you are here

Astrobytes: Hover over his avatar Brokolis ;)

eulerscheZahl: i have a job. 35h/week

Brokolis: Alright! Cool

eulerscheZahl: so during the week i'm offline in the morning + early afternoon hours

jrke: so you work 7h a day

jrke: or also on saturday sundays

eulerscheZahl: 5 days a week

jrke: k

eulerscheZahl: except i have holidays

eulerscheZahl: germany is great in that matter: 30 personal days i can take. and some public holidays

jrke: top players in PR2 are resubmitting and wrecking other bots

jrke: siman submits continously one after one

Astrobytes: Yeah, he does that a lot

Astrobytes: Every contest.

jrke: and for a moment currently wala is also doing that

MartinCiaffone: Hi, is someone aged +55 here?

Astrobytes: I lost motivation to play

Astrobytes: I'll go back to it though, it's a nice game

jrke: who is aged 55+

MostComplicatedUsername: lol no one

MartinCiaffone: I am 57 :-)

MostComplicatedUsername: I am 16 :D

BenjaminUrquhart: I am exist

jrke: im 13

MostComplicatedUsername: BenjaminUrquhart how do we know that for sure???

MostComplicatedUsername: You could be faking existence

Astrobytes: Plenty older people on here MartinCiaffone

BenjaminUrquhart: MostComplicatedUsername you'll just haveto take my word for it

MostComplicatedUsername: Ig so :D

MostComplicatedUsername: rip

MostComplicatedUsername: I need pathfinding

Astrobytes: The 'contest' is almost over and you just realise you need pathfinding. RIP MCU

MostComplicatedUsername: Well I knew that before

Astrobytes: But you failed to implement it.

MostComplicatedUsername: But I never joined to win the contest, I knew that wasn't going to happen

MostComplicatedUsername: I just joined for the sake of joining

Astrobytes: Yes but that's not the point. Play to learn.

MostComplicatedUsername: But... but... random movement ftw?

Astrobytes: You learned some graph theory no?

MostComplicatedUsername: Maybe...

Astrobytes: We spent long enough teaching the basics to you

MostComplicatedUsername: mhm

Astrobytes: You darn well better have remembered it :P

MostComplicatedUsername: I'm using your suggestions rn

MostComplicatedUsername: I just need some way to find the enemy's hq past 1 zone

Astrobytes: Now implement a BFS

jrke: do you know BFS MostComplicatedUsername

jrke: just apply it

Astrobytes: MCU, have a look on there. Even has interactive examples and python code

MostComplicatedUsername: okay...

jrke: or you can also apply floyd warshall

Hjax: i look at my pr2 bot and its like 150 straight games against just wala and siman

struct: They are spam submiting

Hjax: yeah lol

jrke: yes

struct: You dont notice in contest because there are more players

jrke: wala currently defeating everyone except reurse

Hjax: his record against me isnt incredible

jrke: his battles is 86% and he is 4th currently he is defeating dbdr and marchete i.e 2nd and 3rd but lose with recurse

MartinCiaffone: are there other channels, besides this one?

eulerscheZahl: language channels: #fr #ru #de ...

eulerscheZahl: and you can create your own channels

  1. MartinsPrivateChannel

eulerscheZahl: huh?

eulerscheZahl: #MartinsPrivateChannel

eulerscheZahl: there it is

MartinCiaffone: Thank you.

eulerscheZahl: probably #es for you

eulerscheZahl: meh, that channel is almost dead

MartinCiaffone: I see, kinda lonely there...

eulerscheZahl: #world is the most active

Astrobytes: Not everyone is a teenager MartinCiaffone, honest

eulerscheZahl: fr and ru have some popularity too. rest is mostly inactive

jrke: hey i wanna ask one ques is javascript little bit like c++

jrke: in syntax

MartinCiaffone: euler/astro - back to work, I expect to return from time to time to learn things. Thx.

Astrobytes: No worries Martin :)

jrke: Othello approved

Astrobytes: But I wanted my leopard-print background :(

jrke: Astrobytes,WINWINWIN and jrke approved Othello

Astrobytes: Yes I see. Did you write a bot for it jrke?

jrke: not yet will work on it after csb

Astrobytes: Then you should not have approved.

eulerscheZahl: i think you even have to set a checkmark on that before you can approve

eulerscheZahl: Stilgart failed

Astrobytes: How do you know the contribution is correct? You can't just take other user's word for it.

Astrobytes: *sigh*

jrke: no i have not written whole but normal code i have written

Astrobytes: Yes, but you're supposed to check the input against the statement, check the input/ouput with the statement and viewer, verify the game mechanics etc

jrke: i did that

Astrobytes: Did you ensure the default code works with every language

jrke: cheked in 4 lang ruby,javascript,c++,python

jrke: and C also

eulerscheZahl: fun story about bender optim approval: used to work, then a pixi update happened, viewer was completely black. got 2 approvals before the 3rd reviewer noticed it :D

Astrobytes: It's also helpful to submit, even if it's just a random bot or whatever. To test against other opponents

Astrobytes: Bugs can arise from real games as opposed to Default AI games

jrke: k

trictrac: hello all, I approved struct othello.

eulerscheZahl: corner cases like crashing opponent: does the crashing player lose as expected?

trictrac: but it's still blocked

jrke: lol trictrac its already approved

Astrobytes: Yes I remember that eulerscheZahl :)

struct: Hello tric trac

eulerscheZahl: race condition trictrac

struct: I guess you aproved at same time

jrke: othello in Bot programming now

trictrac: ok cool it's approved

eulerscheZahl: and the fox already submitted

Astrobytes: jrke - in future make sure you are much more thorough in your testing before approval, OK?

jrke: Ya ok :thumbsup_tone1:

Astrobytes: Cool

jrke: submitted random bot

struct: Who will be the first to beat 1990 bot

jrke: i got 9 defeats out of 9 random bot

eulerscheZahl: because your opponent is very much not random

Astrobytes: I'll put 0.5€ on tric trac struct

jrke: ya i know that

eulerscheZahl: then i go for jacek. just for the thrill

Astrobytes: That's where my other 0.5€ was gonna go, I'll pick darkhorse instead

Astrobytes: :P

eulerscheZahl: smits will manage to beat the fox. but not be the first to do so

Astrobytes: *if* he plays it

eulerscheZahl: true

Astrobytes: (he will)

eulerscheZahl: and that's most of the usual suspects already

Astrobytes: lol

eulerscheZahl: it's always the same players at the top of board games

Astrobytes: I guess Yurkov might join

eulerscheZahl: maybe karl iso too

darkhorse64: Thanks Astrobytes but my bot is not finished

jrke: same here i will work on it tommorrow

Astrobytes: You still have time, don't fail me now darkhorse64 ;)

jrke: and currently gonna sleep its 1 am in INDIA

Astrobytes: Goodnight jrke, get some rest

jrke: ya for sure gn in advance to you also

Astrobytes: thanks :)

jrke: seems trictrac has also random moves

trictrac: yes for the moment random move

struct: You are already beatingf fox?

struct: How?

struct: o.o

Astrobytes: trictrac is a master struct

Scarfield: dayum nice one :muscle:

Astrobytes: that's why I put 0.5€ on him first :P

Astrobytes: AlphaZeros will be incoming. If tric's isn't already!

trictrac: I have a minmax structure ready and only genmove, playmove & eval to provide

struct: Ah I see

Astrobytes: :)

Astrobytes: Planning to try the alphazero approach though right trictrac? Going by your approval comment ;)

trictrac: yes I started on oware and never summit because i don't master the approach -> my alphazero is weaker than minmax

struct: I was gonna port Game of the Amazons next

struct: But I have something else to do atm

Astrobytes: Well, keep trying. I'm sure you'll get there trictrac

struct: This was Astro suggestion

Astrobytes: Yes, I like Amazons

trictrac: I don't know this game

Scarfield: Snu snu?

Astrobytes: It's 10x10 chessboard-based, 8 queens, 4 white, 4 black. You move like a queen in chess, then you fire an 'arrow' using the same move limitations, the square the arrow stops becomes blocked

Astrobytes: Last player able to move wins

Astrobytes: It's used in many papers on game-playing alorithms and such

Astrobytes: *algorithms

Astrobytes: And it's a good game

trictrac: very good proposal

Astrobytes: Thank you, I thought so too.

Scarfield: first you need to be no. 1 in othello in 2-3 weeks :p

Astrobytes: After you HayField :P

Scarfield: HetField? :)

trictrac: for the moment it seems than jacek is providing a killer on othello

jacek: wtf

struct: Wait

struct: Now I see name in IDE

struct: omg :(

jacek: ?

struct: ide/puzzle/othello-1

jacek: nah im just have barely working impementation. i think i will for few weeks for now

Astrobytes: That was a nice win tho

Astrobytes: That means you need Othello-2 struct, Physics Edition :P

trictrac: I a have a bug in eval for sure. no more piece is not good !!

Astrobytes: Hmm :thinking:

Astrobytes: :)

jacek: ah yeah, i was winning short games

jacek: never won against fox and i pushed trictrac down

Astrobytes: Shame on you sir :P

struct: Now he fixed it, we are doomed

Astrobytes: :D

struct: Oh no I have a bug????

Astrobytes: Where?

struct: ah no

struct: its tri trac

struct: It was a lost game anyways so shouldn't matter

Astrobytes: *you* have a bug or the game has a bug?

struct: No bug

Astrobytes: Just fail? :)

struct: He played an illegal move

struct: And I thought there were none

struct: none legal mvoes

struct: and it was his turn

struct: thats why i got confused

struct: but there were plenty of moves available

Astrobytes: Oh ok

AntiSquid: :o othello :o

AntiSquid: and AutomatonNN is in it?!

AutomatonNN: think i got the bugs for a bit of my time

Astrobytes: Hi AntiSquid

AntiSquid: hi

Astrobytes: We've been missing your D submission in Othello

AntiSquid: well i just beat struct with D first win of the day

Astrobytes: :D

Astrobytes: The balance is restored to the universe

AntiSquid: tryharding on kaggle atm and failing somewhat to understand some of the stuff

Astrobytes: Which task(s) are you working on?

Default avatar.png lmntrix: don't know what to do here. I am new here. I need help

struct: What do you need help with?

AntiSquid: i've mainly went through their courses to learn the theory, forgot it since i first did it, forgot the syntax for the pipeline and function calls

struct: hi AntiSqui

AntiSquid: hi

Default avatar.png lmntrix: I am new in codingame. I have no idea how to go about the site

Default avatar.png III: hi

Astrobytes: Which parts are you struggling with AntiSquid?

AntiSquid: just the syntax and remembering the function names

Default avatar.png lmntrix: Please I need help help. Like a guidiance on how to get started in the codingame site

Astrobytes: You'll get familiar again quickly AntiSquid, wouldn't worry about that

AntiSquid: i mean you import some stuff from python ML libraries, put the data through a pipeline, adjust some values, submit and then keep readjusting some few things and resubmit, it's like CG without having to rewrite the referee basically :p

AntiSquid: InvisibleStopwatch_9c1 do the onboarding challenge

AntiSquid: use search bar at the top

AntiSquid: and then try to do some puzzles or some really simple multi othello seems alright for that (don't get fooled by people telling you to do CSB, you'll hate it)

MostComplicatedUsername: (Don't listen to anti, csb is awesome) :D

Astrobytes: aw not this again

Astrobytes: MCU how is your BFS

Default avatar.png Pooshlmer: Resubmit as another user?

Default avatar.png Pooshlmer: Whoops, mt

jacek: oO

struct: What hapened jacek?

Default avatar.png Bobbadillio: So, I'm thinking about replacing my Ultimate Tic Tac Toe HashMap with a BTree in Rust.

Default avatar.png Bobbadillio: Should be a pretty easy change, but I feel like I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel :D This almost certainly isn't going to be the thing that gets me 10x more rollouts from turn 2 :/

Astrobytes: How many rollouts do you get on turn 2?

AntiSquid: no but rust is perfect for bot hiding in contests

Default avatar.png Bobbadillio: 1800 rollouts

Astrobytes: Ah

Default avatar.png Bobbadillio: Antisquid, what do you mean by bot hiding?

Astrobytes: Tried bitboards?

Default avatar.png Bobbadillio: I store each subboard for each color as a 16 bit unsigned bitboard

AntiSquid: when you send replay to IDE to try and find out why you lost the RUST bot times out since it's not in release mode so you can' test vs it new ideas

Astrobytes: MCTS?

Default avatar.png Bobbadillio: I'm kind of doing MCTS, but not random. Doing a REAL random MCTS is probably a good idea.

Astrobytes: MCTS with eval...or...?

Default avatar.png Bobbadillio: rollouts performed by best move on destination small-board. I can't remember what I do with a free play... That actually could be my whole problem right there.

Default avatar.png Bobbadillio: I've been away from my code for a few months

AntiSquid: you expand based on probability no ?

Default avatar.png Bobbadillio: I choose a node to rollout based on UCT bound

Astrobytes: Also, do you preallocate your nodes and precompute sqrtLog and inverse sqrt?

Default avatar.png Bobbadillio: I'm not precomputing sqrtLog and inverse sqrt, but that definitely makes some sense to me.

Astrobytes: Yes, they're quite expensive

Default avatar.png Bobbadillio: In terms of node preallocation, I use a zobrist hashing scheme to get node ID, and make/unmake moves

Astrobytes: And a preallocated pool of nodes is useful. Don't make your nodes too heavy either

Default avatar.png Bobbadillio: I store node statistics in my lookup table based on the zobrist hash.

Astrobytes: I'm not too up on Rust but I'm guessing memory allocation during a turn is slower than allocating in the 1second you have on first turn?

Default avatar.png Bobbadillio: Or at least, the time is less sensitive in the 1 second first turn? I make my lookup table with a capacity that (I believe) allocates all the space I expect to need. (about 2 million entries)

Astrobytes: Rephrased: Guessing memory allocation is slow so best to do on the first turn (my mad, I apologise for the wording)

Default avatar.png JBM: so mad

Scarfield: MadstroBytes

Astrobytes: damn you JBM

Default avatar.png Bobbadillio: deeply angry :D So angry, I'm going to go profile where my allocations are.

Astrobytes: And you MadField

Scarfield: xD

Astrobytes: lol Bobbadillio

Default avatar.png JBM: now that's anger

Default avatar.png JBM: True anger

Default avatar.png JBM: not like that anger where you just do more sims

Astrobytes: The One True Anger.

struct: Bobbadillio you get those numbers on IDE or Arena?

AntiSquid: i thought true anger is when you delete account

Astrobytes: Ohhhhh yeah Rust debug mode

Astrobytes: good point struct

Astrobytes: That's Truly Giving Up AntiSquid

Default avatar.png Bobbadillio: struct, I'm getting my numbers from the Arena, not IDE

Astrobytes: Hmm, fox making a comeback but still losing hard against tric

Default avatar.png Bobbadillio: I'd love to have a web IDE that compiled with release mode, but oh well

Default avatar.png Bobbadillio: Also, lazy_static would be cool. I've considered doing some compile-time shenanigans with procedural macros...

AntiSquid: someone remind me to do next contest in D

Astrobytes: Will Do

Scarfield: remember to do the next contest in D anti

Astrobytes: ScarFirst beat me to it

Scarfield: yuss

Astrobytes: Lastrobytes :(

Scarfield: xD

Default avatar.png JBM: you've been scarfisted

Default avatar.png Bobbadillio: Oo

Astrobytes: or Scarified

Default avatar.png Bobbadillio: It's a Racer X song!

Astrobytes: Racer X... Paul Gilbert?

Scarfield: lol i wouldnt want to google that xD

Default avatar.png Bobbadillio: Paul Gilbert, yeah!

Astrobytes: I'm no shred fanatic but Paul's a helluva guitarist, more than just a shredder

Default avatar.png Bobbadillio: Oh yeah

AntiSquid: Bobbadillio get an avatar that doesn't look like JBM's

AntiSquid: gn8 all

Astrobytes: Other than metal stuff I'm more of a Jerry Garcia type myself (waits for incoming hate)

Scarfield: gn

Astrobytes: gn AntiSquid

Scarfield: tommy emmanuel is sick if you enjoy acoustic

Astrobytes: Yeah I know Tommy, great fingerstyle stuff

Astrobytes: I couldn't pick a favourite guitarist, nevermind a favourite musician

Astrobytes: ('pick' see what I did there)

Scarfield: no but tommy is definately up there for me :)

Default avatar.png JBM: pick me! pick me!

Scarfield: CandyRatRecords is a great youtube channel for acoustic guitar players if you dont know of it

Astrobytes: Check out Dick Gaughan, Scottish folk guitarist

Astrobytes: Made some incredible music, a very fine guitarist

Astrobytes: And the only reason I ever tuned to DADGAD

Astrobytes: And check out Pierre Bensusan if you like DADGAD tuning stuff too

Scarfield: i think this is DADGAD as well, but havnt played much for a few years now

Scarfield: but like the scotsman :)

Astrobytes: Sounds like it could be yeah

Scarfield: Andy Mckee is also one of my favourites

Astrobytes: Good taste

Default avatar.png Bobbadillio: I haven't been following super close, but has Leo Kottke been mentioned?

Astrobytes: Check this, sorry for quality but it's lovely Scarfield:

Astrobytes: Oh good shout Bobbadillio

Scarfield: listening to Pierre, he can guitar as well :o

Astrobytes: Ohhh yeah

Default avatar.png Bobbadillio: This Dick Gaughan guy is pretty good :D

Astrobytes: Check out all his stuff man, he's a diamond

Astrobytes: Anyway, g'night guys, nice chatting. Got an appointment with Better Call Saul and some food

Scarfield: 2 sec astro

Astrobytes: 2 secs expired

Astrobytes: :P

Scarfield: yea trying to find a guitarist that Guaghan reminded me of

Scarfield: will find him for next time, cant remember his name :'(

Astrobytes: Cool, please do!

Astrobytes: gn for now anyway, take it easy

Scarfield: gb

Scarfield: gn *

Scarfield: Found him, Andrew White, but too late im afraid

Scarfield: Leo Kottke is nice as well Bobbadillio, havent heard his music before i think

yassineH: hi eveyone

yassineH: gn eveyone hh

yassineH: gn @AutomatonNN

AutomatonNN: hi

yassineH: good night @AutomatonNN

AutomatonNN: eulerscheZahl is there a way to see a problem with the code of the game and the output is easy enoug

AdamB: @SPDene, mind sharing your code for

SPDene: @AdamB done

AdamB: @SPDene ah, so simple. thank you!