hydroglicerol: weve all been ther
hydroglicerol: because we are all human
hydroglicerol: right no one is a bot
Xcalibre: Automaton2000 would you agree?
Automaton2000: and it makes you feel better
hydroglicerol: Xcalibre btw VERY original name
MostComplicatedUsername: Xcalible I agree completely (With your bio)
hydroglicerol: y did I write ty
hydroglicerol: you wherent talking to me
hydroglicerol: I guess we will never know
MostComplicatedUsername: I have a question about pr2
MostComplicatedUsername: If I try to move more pods than there are on a cell (Ex. I move 7 pods from zone 1 to zone 2 even if there are only 6 on zone 1), what happens?
eulerscheZahl: why would you even try it to begin with?
MostComplicatedUsername: Well I just want some way to move all the pods from zone 1 to zone 2 without much work
eulerscheZahl: pretty sure you won't get that 7th troop an da negative number on the other cell
MostComplicatedUsername: But will it return an error?
eulerscheZahl: i think the move will be cancelled completely. just try it
MostComplicatedUsername: How do we know which zone is the base?
MostComplicatedUsername: or "HQ"
eulerscheZahl: the only zone that you own in turn 1
MostComplicatedUsername: I mean the enemy's
eulerscheZahl: the only zone that your opponent owns in turn 1
MostComplicatedUsername: Wait I'm dum i was thinking of visible zones
eulerscheZahl: the opponent HQ is always visible, no fog
MostComplicatedUsername: I forgot we can see owner too
eulerscheZahl: you can't see the owner in general
eulerscheZahl: the owner is hidden by fog of war. even if it's your own cell
eulerscheZahl: "Due to an intense fog, units can only see the Platinum and units located on tiles adjacent to or under themselves. The general layout of the map will however be given: the fog will only affect Platinum and enemy PODs. The HQ of both players is always visible, which will let you detect the enemy base on the very first turn."
MostComplicatedUsername: Yeah, I but I didn't know if we also knew the owner or not
Xcalibre: where else did u find the name Xcalibre, hydroglicerol? :thinking:
DaNinja: is the referee code available for PR2?
DaNinja: I found Agades
hydroglicerol: its the name of everyones sword in minecraft
hydroglicerol: but you prob have no idea what Im talking about
Xcalibre: that's true i don't
hydroglicerol: thought so
eulerscheZahl: DaNinja the referee got leaked: https://github.com/SpiritusSancti5/codinGame/tree/master/Referees
eulerscheZahl: it's the official referee used on CG. but not published by CG
hydroglicerol: ummm does anyone know how the score in COC works?
LelouchVC2: There's two sets of tests
LelouchVC2: Those shown to you while you code, and those behind the scenes made to test your code
eulerscheZahl: Trueskill ranking (you can put that into google)
hydroglicerol: thanks Ill try that
hydroglicerol: imagine in java
hydroglicerol: how I feel
LelouchVC2: I've coded C# which I heard is similar in structure
LelouchVC2: I loved it for practicality and use, but in CoC it probably never wins
LelouchVC2: Never heard of LUA till CoC
hydroglicerol: the thing is I didnt beatem I just started programing this year
hydroglicerol: for an AP
eulerscheZahl: the default AI is rarely much better than random moves
eulerscheZahl: just submit and see how it ranks
eulerscheZahl: dft? discrete fourier transformation? what the hell are you doing?
eulerscheZahl: i see. that term is new to me
Xcalibre: how do i turn off intellisense in the ide?
eulerscheZahl: you don't. wait till it crashes
Xcalibre: it keeps telling me 'Decomposition declarations are a C++17 extension' but my code IS compiled with C++17 on codingame.
eulerscheZahl: i'll put it in the bug reports channel on discord
Xcalibre: thanks eulerscheZahl :D
hydroglicerol: that is one nice frog
hydroglicerol: is the 1D spreadsheet practice problem anything more then a bunch of if statements?
eulerscheZahl: there is a reason why it's in the easy section
hydroglicerol: I thought there might be a planet where easy also ment somewhat fun and non tedious but I guess thats kinda impossible
eulerscheZahl: same on codeforces and alike: easy is always boring
Illedan: Was 16th and got crushed down again. Top is no joke :(
Illedan: Won a game vs euler, all is good
Illedan: Marchete? You timeout :(
Illedan: Top 10 at 100 % :tada:
eulerscheZahl: i would like to point out that it was a mirror match. sadly it wasn't
eulerscheZahl: my bot still has some obvious flaws
eulerscheZahl: one of which you see in that replay: sending more troops than necessary into dead ends
eulerscheZahl: 1 is enough
Illedan: Yeah, I need to handle that better too
Illedan: I wish we could see the production on screen somewhere
eulerscheZahl: really old game. be happy that you can see your nickname in fullscreen
eulerscheZahl: that really bothers me at PR1
eulerscheZahl: and PCR
Nerchio: I still think for a 5 year old game it's pretty good :p
eulerscheZahl: chess if over 1000 years old and still actively played ;)
eulerscheZahl: and PR2 is a good game I think. way better than PR1.
UI-wise it would be different if they would design it today. but the important thing is the gameplay
eulerscheZahl: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTFqKTiTCyc they quickly talked about platinum rift at some point on this stream
eulerscheZahl: CG staff are Thibaud (left) and Julien (right)
eulerscheZahl: Illedan you made me collect about 80 troops in the center :D https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/471506608
Illedan: -.- Used a long time on friday adding enemy tracking. Seems my code is not even using the results :(
Illedan: NInja tactics
eulerscheZahl: Illedan why are you wasting troops at the bottom? https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/471514574
hydroglicerol: why does this toad know everything
Astrobytes: 267th, not bad. Guess I have to start trying now
eulerscheZahl: click the bell to see your last messages
Illedan: No idea eulerscheZahl :thinking:
eulerscheZahl: increase visibility? though it's clear that i can't be there as you control the only entrace
Illedan: Yeah, might be buggy tracking :P
Thiesjoo: Yup it works
Astrobytes: Nope. Test failed.
Illedan: eulerscheZahl, I did forget to set CanBe on zones to false -.-
Illedan: 10 error printing statements later :P
Csar00: Is this chat running through discord?
Astrobytes: No, they're separate.
MostComplicatedUsername: Just figured out a way to keep track of my opponent's cells
Illedan: Ranking stopped again?
Astrobytes: Cell owners are in the input MCU
MostComplicatedUsername: Well yeah but when I can't see them
Astrobytes: Don't overcomplicate things, you can get reasonably high without worrying about that
struct: List of played multies not loading for anyone else?
struct: "An error occurred (#412): "Could not get leaderboard in time: bailing out..."."
WINWINWIN: Checked, looks like ranks have stopped updating
Astrobytes: Fine for me struct
struct: Its only showing me mutlies I havent played :/
struct: It works now
Snef: Fix it by playing all of them struct
Illedan: Wow, my tracking makes me really paranoid :O
MostComplicatedUsername: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/471506608 euler why did you only go for the zones to the side once ill edan got closer?
hydroglicerol: did anyone here do the practice of 1D array
hydroglicerol: sorry I ment 1D spread shhet
hydroglicerol: *-h + e
MostComplicatedUsername: ewww spreadsheet *shudders*
Illedan: hmm, why is distributing happening before owning in PR2? :/
jrke: what is response time for first turn in PR2
Illedan: 1 sec
Illedan: Guarding that instead of winning -.-
Illedan: Yeah jrke. 1 sec == 1000 ms :)
JKSTUDIOS2020: which of you know python?
MostComplicatedUsername: I use python
JKSTUDIOS2020: And how do you manage to solve Clash Of Code puzzles? I mean, I don't know how to get the answer, I get blocked
MostComplicatedUsername: I can;t give the answer to every puzzle lol
hydroglicerol: do youmena python or python 3
JKSTUDIOS2020: python 3
MostComplicatedUsername: You just read the prompt and answer
JKSTUDIOS2020: Yeah, I know, but somehow I get stucked and I don't know how to figure it out with code
JKSTUDIOS2020: I get mind-blocked
hydroglicerol: well then you have to train a little bit more I gueess
JKSTUDIOS2020: And I do that? Doing more clash of code stuff?
hydroglicerol: well there are also websites desighned to teach you things you might not have known
hydroglicerol: like code hs which sucks
hydroglicerol: but there are others...
hydroglicerol: a lot of the time you are just missing one peice that youve never learnt
eulerscheZahl: MostComplicatedUsername sometimes i can exclude possible opponent positions. no need to defend without opponent
eulerscheZahl: sometimes i just have bad prioritizing. i spread poorly and allow him to come back and get close to my base on the left side of the map
eulerscheZahl: oh great, my message finally arrived
eulerscheZahl: my internet connection is unstable, really annoys me :/
jrke: hey euler have u used pathfinder to reach opponent base
eulerscheZahl: i'm pretty sure I did
Astrobytes: Nah. Magic.
eulerscheZahl: i wrote that more than 1 year ago
eulerscheZahl: i don't remember what I had for lunch
jrke: im getting timeouts in bigger maps
Astrobytes: What are you using jrke
eulerscheZahl: seems i only compute the dist to my own and opponent base for each cell
eulerscheZahl: not each to each
jrke: maybe in first turn ya
Astrobytes: I do all, just in case
jrke: how whats your algo astrobytes for pathfinder
jrke: im also trying that only
Astrobytes: Optimise it a little bit
Astrobytes: Or you might timeout on the larger maps
Arphnut: I think what you really need is some good knowledge of your language (here python) and some experience with solving such "reflection" problem.
jrke: ya timeouts in larger maps
Astrobytes: I use no more than ~310 ms
Astrobytes: Also, just doing what euler does will save time too
hydroglicerol: basically always trust the toad
rmuskovets: https://www.codingame.com/replay/471550954 :)
Uljahn: i use no more than 40ms in python (with scipy) for greater maps :open_mouth:
Uljahn: for all-to-all distances and shortest paths
Astrobytes: I didn't optimise it yet. Won't until I need to
Astrobytes: Mostly :)
Astrobytes: Yeah, gotta know when to leave it alone for sure
Astrobytes: Hey Uljahn, your pathing may be fast, but I'm above you, fix it :P
Uljahn: i see no problem here :smirk:
hydroglicerol: wait a minute wait just a cotton pickin minute there ARE AI s in COC
hydroglicerol: AND HOW IS THAT FARE
hydroglicerol: AND WHY DO ALL OF THEM USE PYTHON 3
hydroglicerol: the shortest of the languages
hydroglicerol: I call hax
Scarfield: they are official, so not to clash alone when to few join
hydroglicerol: that is smart
hydroglicerol: but why python 3
hydroglicerol: that is a unfair advantage for shortest mode
struct: python is not the shortest of all languages
struct: So you can beat them
struct: also they bots are not hard to beat
struct: the bots*
eulerscheZahl: there is nothing unfair about it when everyone is free in the language choice
Uljahn: also those bots just copy other players' solutions
hydroglicerol: ahh so its like Im playing a player thanks for explaining
Astrobytes: There's an article about it somewhere, on the blog? I don't have the link
Astrobytes: hydroglicerol https://www.codingame.com/blog/clash-of-code-time-has-come-for-clash/
eulerscheZahl: that blog is already close to 2 years old :o
eulerscheZahl: how time flies
Illedan: Won Marchete without timeout on a symmetric map
Illedan: I can now rest in peace
Astrobytes: Yeah eulerscheZahl, I initially skipped over it 'cause I thought it was too old!
Astrobytes: grats Illedan
Illedan: That will be my last submit :)
Astrobytes: Pretty nice placement
Astrobytes: Now get back to your NN
Illedan: Yeah, my plan
eulerscheZahl: back then it was easy to get a decent rank in a contest
Illedan: Yeah, now we got a whole bunch of resources and people sharing stuff
Illedan: which is nie
Illedan: Means all are learning
Illedan: CG getting more popular
Astrobytes: Illedan, eulerscheZahl just means he's getting too old for it now. With all these new-fangled languages and C# versions :P
jacek: come to android world where java 7 is still the thing
eulerscheZahl: hell no
Illedan: jacek, go to Xamarin. Where life is chill
IamTheSmix: hello there
IamTheSmix: I have just finished my code for the UTTT contest
IamTheSmix: I implemented MonteCarlo with python3
IamTheSmix: I got 10 Rollouts per/100ms
IamTheSmix: is it bad ? how many rollouts you think I should get with python ?
Astrobytes: Well, you need ~20,000+ for legend
Astrobytes: So I probably wouldn't use python ;)
IamTheSmix: hmm, what is the highest performance I should get with python ?
IamTheSmix: I saw one guy legend with python 3
Scarfield: i did a version in python that got 200 rollouts per 100ms iirc, then i started learning C++ :D
jacek: rollouts as in random games?
jacek: no NN requests?
Scarfield: full sims
Scarfield: and yes random
jacek: oh my
Scarfield: yee :D
jacek: not my 10k in 100ms doesnt sound so bad
inoryy: 20k is the lower bound*
inoryy: the python guy you saw got into legend with another lang and submitted broken code with py
eulerscheZahl: the lower bound changed a bit, CG changed servers
IamTheSmix: lol so my 10 rollouts are very bad xD
inoryy: generally you should forget about python if you want to use search based algorithms like MCTS and minimax
IamTheSmix: I search in the net and saw that everyone is using python for AI algorithms
eulerscheZahl: 10 rollouts is about 1 for each possible action
eulerscheZahl: you get the same result if you print any valid action
inoryy: you're finding results for ML based solutions which is a completely different approach
Scarfield: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLnPwxZdW4Y Here is a video covering a lot of the basics for learning C++
IamTheSmix: My initiale idea was to do some ML + MCTS
IamTheSmix: everyone is recommanding Python
eulerscheZahl: but these recommendations don't take the 100ms limit on CG into account
IamTheSmix: yeah true
Scarfield: but when you only have 100ms you need a fast language to do enough sims, to find anything valuable :)
jacek: also, python is just wrapper for pushing NN to gpu and whatnot
eulerscheZahl: and these standard frameworks like tensorflow are highly optimized. you code in pyhton but the heavy math in the background is C++ and even your GPU
jacek: its just you can write stuff quickly there
inoryy: I wouldn't recommend using ML for CG. It can work but you'd have to be an expert in other approaches already to figure out how to set it up
IamTheSmix: I just want to learn new algorithm first
IamTheSmix: and then go next level and get higher performance
inoryy: you're mixing up two classes of algorithms though
IamTheSmix: then python -> c++ should be the path to follow?
IamTheSmix: @inorry: I didn't get your point
inoryy: the ML side is usually detached from what you'd use on CG
inoryy: and vise versa
IamTheSmix: yeah I know that for ML, I need some pre-calculated or trained engin
wlesavo: reminds me of my first implementation for NS with nested lists and deepcopy all over the place :slight_smile:
IamTheSmix: I tired to upload trained data but the CG toled me that my code is big
Scarfield: yea 100k char limit
jacek: char, not bytes *
IamTheSmix: I think it's only 50k
Scarfield: I hope you will invent a new search algo, it could be called SmixiMax :p
jacek: with prune array
IamTheSmix: I will call it NegaSmix
Astrobytes: NegaCegaSmix if you use Prune Array
MostComplicatedUsername: If only pr2 had a coordinate system...
eulerscheZahl: why do you need it?
Astrobytes: Did you pay attention when we gave you your brief introduction to graph theory last night or what?!
Astrobytes: So eulerscheZahl, can you be bothered to revisit your code and wreck Ille?
LelouchVC2: Who has time to revisit their code?
jacek: finally! https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/471583026
Nerchio: this is a game from mexico ye?
Astrobytes: lol jacek, gg :D
jacek: i thought it was ancient egypt
jacek: done with my prune array
Nerchio: nvm not mexico, I saw it in Africa
Astrobytes: Nercio, this game is found everywhere, think it originates in Africa
Nerchio: yeah my mistake, I saw it in shop when i was on holidays in Africa :D
Nerchio: funny to see it on cg
Astrobytes: LOL jacek, actual prune array
Astrobytes: Did you switch to EPT MCTS or still on a/b jacek?
Astrobytes: Either way, I'm coming for you after this PR2 stuff
jacek: im still way behind you
jacek: im working on eval so fa
Astrobytes: Way behind is not far enough :P
Astrobytes: Cool, they're not easy params to fit in this game
Astrobytes: If we had more calculation time it would be more straightforward I guess, but the CG limit makes it more of a challenge
inoryy: Nerchio are you still playing sc2?
Nerchio: got tired of it for now
inoryy: ah, bummer
Astrobytes: Next logical step is SC2 AI then :shrug: :D
Nerchio: i prefer #1 in thibpat contest on progression leaderboard
Astrobytes: haha nice, grats
Rsrsl: @AggYz: I don't really get your point; how is that shorter than
print("".join(i for i in input() if i.isupper()))
AbundantPuddle: (len(lis_fl) - 1
inoryy: filter(str.isupper, input()) :)
AbundantPuddle: ignore that
Rsrsl: print("".join(filter(str.isupper, input())))
Astrobytes: Doctor Foster went to Gloucester, In a shower of rain; He stepped in an AbundantPuddle, Right up to his middle, And never went there again
hydroglicerol: how *sob**sob* sad
AbundantPuddle: Foster is Australian for beer.
Nerchio: I just realised that when your bots die in PR2 you lose vision so you need to manually detect that and mark that you're losing tiles
Nerchio: especially important in corridors
Astrobytes: LargePool Aussies don't drink that crap unless they move to London
AbundantPuddle: Nobody in Australia drinks that, period.
Astrobytes: They lower their standards when in the UK.
Astrobytes: Despite the fact you can get VB, Tooheys and Castlemaine
MostComplicatedUsername: In pr2, can you see your own cells even if your pods aren't adjacent to them?
Astrobytes: MCU, " units can only see the Platinum and units located on tiles adjacent to or under themselves"
Nerchio: problem is the input is given for the whole map each round
Nerchio: hexes you can't see are neutral =/ need to account for that
Astrobytes: And you know about the debug settings right MCU?
Astrobytes: yeah Nerchio
Nerchio: input is very much outdated so prepare to deal with it :P
Nerchio: if you find platinum on hexes first time remember to never overwrite it to 0
Nerchio: ok im done with death detection will use it tomorrow
Astrobytes: Kinda fun having a multi to concentrate on
Astrobytes: Good motivation
Nerchio: y although I feel like people could be more interacting and sharing strategies
Nerchio: i mean there is not much to win :P
Astrobytes: Not *that* many people participating compared to real contest though, plus it's an old game
Astrobytes: Be better when he does it next time maybe with a new game I guess
Astrobytes: Still fun though
Nerchio: I didn't know what the game is before he announced it but now that I sat down its actually pretty nice
Nerchio: i actually like this game more than pacman :p
Astrobytes: Yeah, I only submitted a "WAIT" bot before (2 years ago lol), was lacking motivation to try it again :D
Astrobytes: I like most games more than that Pacman :P
Illedan: oh, wala joining the top too :D
Illedan: Pushing me up at least :tada:
Nerchio: illedan you have something sophisticated going on in your bot? :P
Illedan: If jungle + bruteforce actions
Astrobytes: I tried to ask euler if he was gonna participate cause you rekt him but he either left or didn't reply in sheer disgust
Astrobytes: Also surprised robo never had a bot in this multi
macnack: someone want help me with my game? this is sfml project game like Building Panic
Astrobytes: It's not really a game programming website macnack
Astrobytes: It's more about writing programs to play games
Astrobytes: You'll get better help in one of the SFML communities
macnack: okey thanks meen
hydroglicerol: is there a dark mode for this website if not can we make a petiton for one?
hydroglicerol: or do I have to learn HTML and this is all a test
MostComplicatedUsername: There is dark mode
MostComplicatedUsername: Go to settings
MostComplicatedUsername: THen turn on dark mode lol
jimmyjansen93: hmmm where can I find that in the settings, I must be blind
LelouchVC2: Dark mode is a state of mind
hydroglicerol: whats up
SimonLandry: needed like 10 more seconds and I would've won
hydroglicerol: happens all the time jk
MostComplicatedUsername: Random movement ftw https://www.codingame.com/replay/471622419
MostComplicatedUsername: Now I need parthfinding