MostComplicatedUsername: Nooo my rank went from 6th to 31st!
MostComplicatedUsername: My cg rank has gone down too... used to be 3990
AbundantPuddle: I'm not sure ArianPunk. Lemme take a gander.
AbundantPuddle: I am going to say no gfx.
AbundantPuddle: Code? Lol.
AbundantPuddle: I would use debugging and check the test case inputs and outputs.
AbundantPuddle: All traffic lights start green than duration green and duration red.
jacek: hows yinsh approval
struct: still pending
struct: I guess I could just try and reupload it, but Ill let them find the bug
AbundantPuddle: I approve
AbundantPuddle: I thought I found a bug. Turns out it was just a fly on my monitor.
struct: Go more approvals
struct: 20 approvals and I delete
AbundantPuddle: I honestly have no clue how that game is even played.
struct: which game?
struct: Can be a bit hard to understand at first
struct: First time I looked at line board I couldnt understand it
WINWINWIN: struct arent there 3 appovals?
struct: There are like 9
WINWINWIN: Astrobytes, TricTrac and AntiSquid?
struct: But its bugged
struct: 3rd never goes through
WINWINWIN: I see, what did codingame team say?
struct: seems like a :bug: to me :frowning: I reported it to the devs
WINWINWIN: Delete it and resend it did not work?
struct: Didnt try
struct: better fix the bugs
WINWINWIN: Any other MPs with bugs?
struct: no clue
AbundantPuddle: A worm? Uh-oh!
solaimanope: is there any tool to combine all files in a java project into a single file?
solaimanope: so that the single file can then be submitted in CG arena
[CG]Thibaud: search "java single file" in the forum
[CG]Thibaud: there are several topics about it
GauravGosain: how do i fix this
GauravGosain: Failure Found: Djf cta swyh, hwqk mbz Zydsbt G...e hs wvii omao uf cek mbz lphgjpdp Ihmbkc Pcsu tnn w tzrjcwmtt. Expected: Djf cta swyh, hwqk mbz Zydsbt G...e hs wvii omao uf cek mbz lphgjpdp Ihmbkc Pcsu tnn w tzrjcwmtt.
GauravGosain: my found and expected strings are the same thing
GauravGosain: and all other test cases pass
GauravGosain: nevermind when i submitted i got a 10-% must have been a glitch
jacek: so quiet and peaceful
jrke: hey i have problem in my angle func look it always return me 90* its for CSB
jrke: plz help
WINWINWIN: Yes, last chat at 3hrs ago
daffie: it's probably not a prblem in there, it's a issue where you're not using that function and sending 90 somewhere
Xcalibre: jrke, since px, x, py, y and d are integers, (px-x)/d and (py-y)/d will round down to the nearest integer. cast any one of the operands in each expression to a double.
Xcalibre: if d > (px-x) then dx will evaluate to 0, and ang will evaluate to acos(0)*(180/3.14) which is 90.046.
Trice: Please share code if 100%
Trice: Wrong chat :D
cegprakash: jrke I'll give u mine
cegprakash: jrke I shared u in India chat
cegprakash: ur PI is inaccurate jrke
cegprakash: I use float PI = 3.14159265359;
Astrobytes: you can use M_PI
cegprakash: oh nice
cegprakash: Astrobytes what do u think is the safest way to start simultaneous games?
cegprakash: like minimax is for alternate turn games
struct: What do you mean ceg?
cegprakash: games where both players play together
cegprakash: and don't know what other player moved this turn
struct: Yeah, I know what it is, but what does this mean, "what do u think is the safest way to start simultaneous games?"
cegprakash: something that helps reach gold easily
cegprakash: or even legend
Astrobytes: Which game?
cegprakash: MeanMax for example
Astrobytes: What do you use for CSB?
struct: Why do you want easy legend?
cegprakash: CSB gold boss is too weak
struct: Go do uttt
struct: easy legend
cegprakash: UTTT is alternate player game
Astrobytes: which algo do you use for CSB, I didn't ask what you thought about the Gold boss
cegprakash: just random search
Astrobytes: Try that first then
cegprakash: 2 runners no collision
cegprakash: nno opponent prediction
cegprakash: safest = with opponent prediction
cegprakash: and make a safe move
Astrobytes: Well write a good sim, and try random first
cegprakash: u can take spring challenge also
cegprakash: as an example
cegprakash: I didn't know what to do at all
cegprakash: for opponent prediction
RoboStac: both good examples of games where opponent prediction barely matters :)
cegprakash: top 10 predicts them
RoboStac: you said legend, not top 10
cegprakash: Saeleos won with opponent predictionn
cegprakash: well I want top 10
RoboStac: don't expect anything easy then
Astrobytes: ceg always wants the path of least resistance, then blames the leaderboard for not getting high placement ;)
struct: top 10 where?
cegprakash: Saeleos did something like a nnested GA
cegprakash: GA inside GA inside GA which can be very sloooow going depth
Astrobytes: I guess if you're doing Mean Max you want a GA or SA or something
Astrobytes: I haven't done anything for it seriously yet
cegprakash: he does a GA on enemy
cegprakash: how does he do that :O
Astrobytes: spend x ms running it for the enemy, spend the rest on you?
cegprakash: but how will the moves talk to each other
cegprakash: my move and opponent move
Astrobytes: Dear god, not today ceg please
cegprakash: minimax talks to each other
cegprakash: is there annyway to achieve something like that in GA?
Astrobytes: I'm still trying to recover from the minimax 'tutorials'
Astrobytes: Prune Array
cegprakash: it's negamax
cegprakash: there is nothing called maximax
cegprakash: what u guys talking about
cegprakash: what array?
struct: Just try Smitsimax
cegprakash: but smitsimax ignores opponennnt moves
cegprakash: opponent can kill u ur bot ignores it
cegprakash: " For example, if a game allows 4 types of moves: A, B, C and D and if in some situations caused by the opponent, move C is illegal, then this search will not work. "
cegprakash: I'm trying to understand Nash equilibrium
Astrobytes: ceg, you are really jumping from topic to topic here
Astrobytes: There's this search engine...
cegprakash: wlesavo there is nothing called segamegamax u drunk?
Astrobytes: Whoosh... there it goes
cegprakash: wait what
cegprakash: I've used this same strat on pacman
cegprakash: that's why I'm top 50
cegprakash: I mean without my own knowledge
cegprakash: I was thinking I did a GA :\ but what I've done is a minnimax?
cegprakash: yeah this table is constructed during my GA :\
cegprakash: I know it's weird
cegprakash: nnow I don't know whether to call a GA or minimax
cegprakash: it's a GAimax?
351062: How about cegimax
Astrobytes: No, that's his other one, with the Prune Array
cegprakash: what prune array
Neumann: So many search algos ..
Astrobytes: ceg, I really think you ought to do some research and reading of papers/definitions/implementations. It will benefit you.
cegprakash: hey stop trolling me
pb4: "I've used this same strat on pacman" ---> After building the payoff matrix, how did you choose a move from the matrix ?
Astrobytes: That's not a troll ceg. I am completely serious.
Neumann: That's litterrally the only non-troll message he wrote
cegprakash: I always assume enemy's intention is to kill me
cegprakash: that's like the perfect counter
cegprakash: to my moves
pb4: Matrix won't kill you
pb4: It just has rows and columns
cegprakash: I have an eval to find the payoff
pb4: Right, that fills the matrix
pb4: Now you have the matrix, what do you do ?
cegprakash: so I move I play opponennt counter move
cegprakash: that's how my GA i pacman works
pb4: Unclear again
cegprakash: so it's basically a minimax
Astrobytes: The GA that you're not sure if it's a GA or a minimax, right? That one?
cegprakash: it's GAimax
Astrobytes: I... just... :shrug:
cegprakash: I choose a random move
cegprakash: for enemy I play a counter to this move
cegprakash: then I go to next depth
cegprakash: choose a random move
cegprakash: pfor enemy I play the counter to this move
struct: so you play and then make a move for opponent and eval the opponent move to choose the best?
cegprakash: but I only play enemy it if there is a counter move for me otherwise I assume enemy doesn't move
struct: Seems to have a few flaws
cegprakash: that's a loophole
cegprakash: if i fix that easy top 10
wlesavo: fix it
cegprakash: and I don't have a perfect opponent tracking
cegprakash: like Saeleous does
cegprakash: and I onnly assume enemy's intention is to kill me.. if he can't kill me he should eat the best pellets around him annd spawn nenw pacman if there are multiple pacmanns around him
cegprakash: that's what saelous does
cegprakash: so may be he is using GAimax
cegprakash: and I used partial GAimax
Astrobytes: Where is the genetic/evolutionary aspect of this particular algorithm?
Neumann: I'm closing the chat, I cannot work with that much entertainment on my second screen
Astrobytes: Someone remind reCurse to check the chat logs later
struct: Neumann its free knowledge
struct: you should know GAimax
Uljahn: i guess it's just MCimax not GAimax
Astrobytes: Looks like an MC to me alright
struct: I cant really see a benefit of it
cegprakash: why do everyone troll me
cegprakash: when I found something amazinng
Uljahn: but GAimax sounds pretty close to Gainax, that's cool
Astrobytes: You are... possibly trolling yourself
wlesavo: could it be that ceg is calling monte carlo GA
cegprakash: once I learn MCTS I'll find a way to do MCimax
struct: good luck
Astrobytes: I strongly suggest you start with less complexity than MCTS. Just my humble opinion. There are some... gaps, in your knowledge.
AntiSquid: first time reading about gaymax algo AutomatonNN
AutomatonNN: muh and a game with best cards at once
cegprakash: it's not gaymax wtf
cegprakash: it's GAimax
cegprakash: i not y
AntiSquid: same difference
Astrobytes: Can you just call it MC please, the GA part is really triggering me
pb4: Same pronunciation :D
Astrobytes: And how did the payoff matrix fit into this?
cegprakash: pb4 nooooo
wlesavo: gaymax should be a legit meme
struct: have you tried GAimax on CSB?
AntiSquid: it's not a meme, it's GA and MM with payoff matrix
struct: I think you probably get top 5
Astrobytes: I'm rapidly losing the ability to find words here
cegprakash: struct yes I'll try but I hate collisions
Astrobytes: And you want to do Mean Max?
eulerscheZahl: then avoid them and go straight to the next checkpoint
eulerscheZahl: he did mean max already
cegprakash: that's not how GAimax works
cegprakash: eulerscheZahl u should also learn GAimax
eulerscheZahl: simplified the engine, used floats and was confused why his results didn't match
cegprakash: I foudn it
aCat: hey anyone can tell me how many simulations per turn he got in UTTT?
struct: Where did you sucesfully implemented GAimax?
Astrobytes: Yeah, he wanted easy legend strat for it eulerscheZahl
struct: aCat around 26-30k on 2nd turn
cegprakash: PacMan struct
eulerscheZahl: 20k-25k full rollouts in early game for legend
AntiSquid: i don't understand what a partial gaimax is btw
eulerscheZahl: top players get about 100k
Astrobytes: Astrobytes 01:38PM ceg always wants the path of least resistance, then blames the leaderboard for not getting high placement ;)
struct: My sim count is low because my MCTS is not true mcts
aCat: (normal turn, my current timelimit is 95ms)
struct: I dont expland and do rollout
AntiSquid: how many sims can you get with a gaimax ?
aCat: I got like 8k in 2-4 turn
aCat: flat mc
eulerscheZahl: just do x2 or x3, easy legend :rofl:
AntiSquid: oh i thought you already implemented gaimax
struct: aCat what language?
aCat: I suppose it will be legend with this result If i switch from flatmc to mcts
cegprakash: I did AntiSquid
aCat: I did it year ago
AntiSquid: was talking to acat, ceg
aCat: and i was sure it was kinda fast
struct: I do have mcts, but my mcts expands the tree everytime it makes a move
struct: so it isnt expand and do rollout
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/469699427 i print my sim count aCat, bottom legend
aCat: not bitboards though
eulerscheZahl: used to be higher before CG changed servers
AntiSquid: what's the percentage for? and the last number i don't understand either
cegprakash: partial GAimax = find counter moves only for certainn moves
eulerscheZahl: my win probability. and the expected number of turns till the game ends
cegprakash: which are easy to find
struct: 0x7f57c40f0010 Visits: 25000 score -3617move board index: 0 move pos: 0 childs 9 0x7f57c40f0028 Visits: 4895 score 763move board index: 5 move pos: 0 childs 9 Used nodes: 10115722 Expansion counter: 1287613
struct: the first one is root
pb4: On a more serious note
AntiSquid: doesn't all that tracking slow down the code a bit?
pb4: The "simultaneous GA" that Saelyos used is basically Boss3 on BR
aCat: eulerscheZahl can you play one more game against me?
struct: wood 3 boss
pb4: The boss you still need to beat :)
AntiSquid: no need
AntiSquid: you are enough you do enough
AntiSquid: peace of mind
eulerscheZahl: aCat https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/469702268
aCat: with time ai'm more and more slow
aCat: but yeah its still not mcts
aCat: might be significant
struct: What league are you atm aCat?
aCat: #155 gold
struct: With plain MC?
Astrobytes: And no bitboards
struct: I was like silver with MC
aCat: my board is 100 ints array
aCat: sorry chars\
aCat: so it's like optimizing to work on arrays
aCat: but not on bits
struct: my board is like 18 int16
struct: + 2
struct: so around 20
aCat: after > year I suppose I will finally add MC here
struct: There are java bots at legend
struct: so there is hope
Astrobytes: Just switch to Lua aCat ;)
AntiSquid: i was silver with something stupid like outputing possible_moves[-3]
wlesavo: struct im mid gold with depth 1 eval bot, but i think teccle s heuristics is a big part of this raiting
struct: he uses heuristics?
struct: real AI?!?!
wlesavo: i mean returning to the same board
wlesavo: plain mc did much worse for me, but i had like 200-300 rollouts :smiley:
eulerscheZahl: that's merely better than random
wlesavo: not even sure if it is better than random
Astrobytes: bois de construction...?
DoubleBreakfast_ff7c: i have recieved a email from ea that i was considered as a candidate for an software engineer internship and they sent a test to this site what should i expect coding chalenges or theory or both ?
Astrobytes: about halfway down this page in this link you'll see a sample of what it'll be like (interactive): https://www.codingame.com/work/offers/screening/
Astrobytes: Then, do some puzzles from here: https://www.codingame.com/training
Astrobytes: They'll be testing your language knowledge and problem solving skills I should imagine
eulerscheZahl: difficulty can vary
Astrobytes: I've never done one of the assessments but I believe it's based on what position you're applying for
eulerscheZahl: that would be an easy question
Astrobytes: That's not what I am saying ArianPunk. He has been given an assessment to do on codingame from a potential employer. That's how codingame makes money (among other things)
eulerscheZahl: the interviewer can decide which questions you have to solve. some got the question from above. but i have no idea what EA is doing
jacek: as for uttt, teccles thing alone improved my position from ~15th to 6th
AntiSquid: quite sure the interview questions are generally at medium puzzle level max
jacek: and i see it significantly strengthens first player
Astrobytes: ArianPunk, the puzzles are a good way to get familiar with the format and the level of difficulty expexted
struct: They should add space maze to interview questions
AntiSquid: what teccles thing in uttt?
eulerscheZahl: if you play on an empty board, make opponent play in the same cells
eulerscheZahl: that is: opponent send you to top center and there is no cell set so far, you send the opponent back
jacek: i think this allows first player to fill be first in mini boards and increase his chances to win them
AntiSquid: that sounds good
Astrobytes: Solving puzzles alone will not get you a job though. Which is what you asked earlier.
eulerscheZahl: and as the interviewer can define own questions, you might not even know the task. even if you solved everything on CG
struct: The task is to approve Yinsh
struct: Good luck
ZarthaxX: i failed
struct: Did you try?
AntiSquid: the puzzles won't buy him success, but if he fails the interview question / puzzle do you expect him to get the job ArianPunk ?
ZarthaxX: yes but it popped a message when i did
ZarthaxX: *can't approve such bad multi*
struct: Oh, so now even approved messages wont go through
ZarthaxX: im kidding
struct: Its bugged ZarthaxX
struct: game cant be approved
struct: I think its my fault
ZarthaxX: maybe if you delete account
ZarthaxX: and restart
struct: I think I tried to approve my own contribution with POST
jacek: or maybe theres conflict name in DB
struct: but Im not sure
struct: cant really remember if I did it or not
AntiSquid: i can confirm with an alt, deleting account makes your contrib unstuck
ZarthaxX: tbh i didnt approve your thing
jacek: if approve doenst work, does reject work?
AntiSquid: i think not
ZarthaxX: many people approved your multi
ZarthaxX: or no?
Astrobytes: hi Zarthachloride
ZarthaxX: is it really stuck
AntiSquid: even thibaud tried ZarthaxX
jacek: lol reject works
ZarthaxX: internal error
ZarthaxX: oh god
struct: Do 3 rejects work?
AntiSquid: CG staff hate hexagons
ZarthaxX: i will reject
struct: you cant remove the reject now jacek
struct: due to bug
ZarthaxX: it works
struct: ah ok
struct: it worked
jacek: i delete the reject
AntiSquid: guys let's test if the downvote button still works
struct: let me try to reject
AntiSquid: i deleted approval and redone it
struct: Now try to approve
jacek: not working
Stilgart: what's all this noise?
Astrobytes: Nope, just error struct
struct: Sorry Stilgart
ZarthaxX: ArianPunk you could be a copypaster
ZarthaxX: but i guess it's no harm to mention so
struct: Yinsh is bugged and we were trying to approve it
Stilgart: struct: no need to be sorry, there seems to be a major issue here
Stilgart: bugged in which way?
struct: It cant be approved
Astrobytes: What if you reject fully? Then try to reupload?
Stilgart: many contribs are bugged (espacially CoCs)
struct: 3rd approval wont work
ZarthaxX: ArianPunk yes, there are many solutions available on the internet
jacek: maybe theres buffer overflow for 3
ZarthaxX: manypeople have copypasted
AntiSquid: getting high rank in contest imo does ArianPunk and if the interviewer smirks or frowns at a top 50 rank then tell them to hire a HR with background in IT, not in geography
Astrobytes: Oh so approvals are not working for other contribs too Stilgart?
struct: Astrobytes, I could, but I want CG to find the bug
Stilgart: Astrobytes: no
ZarthaxX: so the whole system is stuck
Stilgart: that is why I asked for the nature of the bug
Stilgart: this one is news to me
struct: The bug is on approval
Stilgart: what about other puzzles in the same category ?
Astrobytes: ping someone in the Bug thread on discord again struct, see if they've made any progress
Stilgart: we approved King Domino not so long ago
struct: I'll ping them tomorrow
struct: Don't want to pressure them
Stilgart: (King domino is the real name of Code of the Realm)
Astrobytes: Such a kind soul struct <3 :P
AntiSquid: Don't put off until tomorrow what you SHOULD do today!!! struct ping them now!
jacek: no, do it tomorrow. lets pressure them on friday afternoon
Stilgart: bad idea
AntiSquid: i see jacek knows how to plan ahead
Stilgart: the site might be down all the week-end
Stilgart: due to a bad friday push
jacek: friday is release day
struct: I have to reject someone contribution just for test
AntiSquid: should be on every interview "when is release day?"
Stilgart: when it's time
Astrobytes: "Always push to the live server on Friday afternoons" - true/false
Stilgart: fortunately, I don't date if you think it's wrong :)
AntiSquid: unless friday is bank holiday, then you do it thursday
Stilgart: (and also, I can decide when to push my releases)
AntiSquid: that was an interview question
struct: Oups An error occurred (#571): "Action not allowed for CodinGamer 1540478".
struct: Tried to self reject
Astrobytes: Fix it CodinGamer 1540478
reCurse: You need to delete account to self reject
struct: If I delete, will contribution still be pending :thinking:
AntiSquid: it will auto approve
Tiramon: yay my first neural network is working on cg (more or less, like me it missed one rule ;) )
eulerscheZahl: the rule to leave a valid action to your opponent
Tiramon: oware abaqa ... it's a easy setting
Tiramon: right eulerscheZahl
Tiramon: was wondering why it stil didn't avoid invalid actions until i found out that is also an invalid one ;)
AntiSquid: how did you train it while leaving out one rule?
Usamaliaquat: that was great
Tiramon: it's a dqn .. it's learning wihtout knowing the rules ... and i used the referee
Tiramon: so it was no problem that i missed it
Tiramon: my goal for this evening is to switch from dqn, fixed Q, ER to a dqn with PER, maybe this solves this invalid actions
struct: "FYI, the approval bug has been fixed but is not delivered yet."
Astrobytes: Nice Tiramon
Astrobytes: struct, they're waiting for Friday afternoon
Tiramon: was always wondering why i didn't get below 14% invalid actions ...
AntiSquid: maybe they automated it and a script will auto update saturday early morning
struct: What will break next
Tiramon: ok it's running with PER ... let's see if it helps
AntiSquid: Astrobytes is that a cookie dough cat? https://www.codingame.com/profile/9465e598a3709ee35fc186375949163c0361892
Astrobytes: No it's one of those 'bad taxidermy' pictures
Astrobytes: I think that was a seal or something
Uljahn: cricri from Hélène et les garçons? :thinking:
Astrobytes: Yeah lol, personal joke
Astrobytes: Join #ru Near_you
Uljahn: wow rude
Uljahn: he's already there :unamused:
Astrobytes: Yes I did a quick translate
Astrobytes: AntiSquid, reCurse, kicking required
wlesavo: wow, google translation is surprisingly good
wlesavo: wouldn't expect it to get this one right
Astrobytes: It usually fails on things you would not expect it to fail at :D
WINWINWIN: Tiramon how far did the neural network get?
eulerscheZahl: rank 155 out of 165 players
eulerscheZahl: but he's still working on it
Astrobytes: Oh he submitted?
WINWINWIN: Are the top spots in all multis NNs?
Astrobytes: DArkhorse and Smits are MCTS w/ EPT
eulerscheZahl: and wlesavo i can confirm that google translate is readable for RU => EN that's how I played the last mini RAIC
Astrobytes: in Oware WINWINWIN
eulerscheZahl: i didn't even struggle to understand the rules
Astrobytes: Not in all multis
AntiSquid: ah after checking google translate i see the ban was indeed justified
LelouchVC2: Who got banned?
LelouchVC2: And if you say "who", I'm going to suicide
Astrobytes: *commit suicide
LelouchVC2: I'm going to shove a hot poker up my nostril and suicide
Astrobytes: *commit suicide
LelouchVC2: I'm going to suicide
LelouchVC2: I bet you'd grammar check code comments too :(
Astrobytes: No. I only do it when I feel like it, for amusement usually
Astrobytes: Especially for ridiculous statements :P
Astrobytes: But it was some Belarussian user who was being nasty in #ru and here
LelouchVC2: feel like it; for amusement*
AntiSquid: very odd choice of words
AntiSquid: "committing suicide if i don't get an answer regarding who got banned + i am going to do it in this specific odd lobotomizing way"
AntiSquid: you could end up being disabled and fail to suicide idk ...
Astrobytes: Often the outcome with many attempted methods.
Astrobytes: Though males are usually more successful than females iirc, due to choice of method.
eulerscheZahl: and possibilities
AntiSquid: ya the gender death gap is still an issue
eulerscheZahl: we can pee on an electric fence
Astrobytes: So can a woman
Astrobytes: Just takes a little more.. .efort
eulerscheZahl: don't ruin my joke :(
eulerscheZahl: my cat just fell asleep on me. i guess i'm stuck
Astrobytes: I'm cat free for now, as I'm upstairs and the window is open wide (they cannot be trusted except on the ground floor)
Astrobytes: My old cat Phoebe, she fell out a 5 storey flat, landed on her feet. Was fine. Pretty sure she lost several lives though.
AntiSquid: maybe cat jumping is still better than cat shoving a poker up its nostril
AntiSquid: nvm that guy is gone
Astrobytes: Cats are exceptionally good at falling.
Astrobytes: We're not.
AntiSquid: bungee jumping
Astrobytes: **without a parachute etc
AntiSquid: cats would do it too if they could
Astrobytes: Bungee jumping? :P
Astrobytes: Not sure either of my two would be impressed.
AntiSquid: your cat would bungee jump down into a mouse and be back up to your flat before you even noticed
Astrobytes: That's almost as bad as imagining the little beasts had wings.
AntiSquid: the mice ?
Astrobytes: No, the cats. That would essentially be a small bat otherwise.
AntiSquid: one day ...
AntiSquid: genetic engineering isn't there yet
Astrobytes: I miss bats. Used to be loads where I lived when I worked in London.
AntiSquid: winged cats and neko girls
Astrobytes: You really do have something anime/manga related for almost every topic eh?
wlesavo: yeah, it works ok, its just this particular one had grammar mistakes together with some slang/obscene words, not an easy task for sure eulerscheZahl
AntiSquid: just remembered the Elon Musk tweets regarding cat girls Astrobytes
Astrobytes: Not aware of those AntiSquid
AntiSquid: thought it's funny he even considered entertaining that discussion
Astrobytes: Guy's a bit of a loon
eulerscheZahl: aren't swaer words the first you usually learn in a foreign language?
eulerscheZahl: i can insult indians
Astrobytes: ceg better watch out
Astrobytes: *CG ceg, not the actual place
eulerscheZahl: his name is prakash actually
Astrobytes: I am fully aware of that
Astrobytes: I even know his surname
eulerscheZahl: i don't
Astrobytes: But I won't divulge it
AntiSquid: i think i saw it too
Astrobytes: (sent me a music playlist)
AntiSquid: he even wrote in chat if i remember correctly
eulerscheZahl: on the stream?
Astrobytes: I'm partial to some Indian music now and then, the rhythms and melodies are very interesting
eulerscheZahl: i know squiddys full name and doxxed myself on 2 or 3 occasions as well
Astrobytes: Yes I know both of yours
AntiSquid: don't care
AntiSquid: about other people's names i mean
eulerscheZahl: while the only thing i know about you is the garcia tshirt fro your profile pic Astrobytes
Astrobytes: lol, yes, Jerry Garcia of Grateful Dead fame
Astrobytes: And we know Madeleine's name too
Astrobytes: But like squid said, I don't give a crap
AntiSquid: Hasegawa Taizou
Astrobytes: that's your Madao (sp?) thing right?
AntiSquid: no that's his real name duh
Astrobytes: No, his real name is Madeleine Anton Kuz-something
Nerchio: hey do you guys know a way to run cgbenchmark on a multi
Nerchio: since it is the same name it says it's too late to run it
AntiSquid: what do you mean too late?
Nerchio: Error "it's too late to connect to the challenge"
AntiSquid: ping neu man, he is your best bud anyway, will be delighted to help
eulerscheZahl: enter the multiplayer name
Astrobytes: Yea, you need to point it to the multi rather than the challenge
Astrobytes: curse you euler
eulerscheZahl: go to multiplayer, play once to find out how it's called
Nerchio: spring-challenge-2020 is the same as was the challenge
eulerscheZahl: which game do you want to play?
Nerchio: the pacman :P
Astrobytes: Global Thermonuclear War?
Nerchio: it's in puzzles :s puzzle/spring-challenge-2020
Astrobytes: How about a nice game of chess?
eulerscheZahl: for me it seems to be 28526532f66f2180b933fe1def6e05c0283ddb6a
eulerscheZahl: whoops, forgot to trim the edge after moving
jrke: hey i wanna know that in CSB that our pod will rotate and then move or first move and then rotate
Nerchio: what's this?
eulerscheZahl: network traffic. play your code in the IDE
eulerscheZahl: then analyze the request you sent
Nerchio: I will try but I think there is a problem since
Astrobytes: what kind of problem?
Nerchio: when you pick pacman it says multiplayer/spring-challenge-2020 and when you are in ide
eulerscheZahl: i'm not using CG Benchmark. But I suppose you need that number to play a battle with CG benchmark
Nerchio: pacman is in puzzles
Nerchio: . /ide/puzzle/spring-challenge-2020
eulerscheZahl: did you check the red frame i drew on the right?
wlesavo: Nerchio did you check isContest: false?
AntiSquid: you don't need any number for cgbench
AntiSquid: i didn't need
AntiSquid: wlesavo got it !
AntiSquid: i remember that was the issue for me too
Astrobytes: Been a while since I used bench
Nerchio: wlesavo brilliant man :D
jrke: plz ans this
jrke: hey i wanna know that in CSB that our pod will rotate and then move or first move and then rotate
AntiSquid: now go collect valid seeds and agent IDs Nerchio
eulerscheZahl: and then play the other pacman
Nerchio: is the other pac online?
Nerchio: i thought they took it down
eulerscheZahl: yes. but i don't want to spoil
tomatoes: rotate first iirc
eulerscheZahl: not in the multiplayer section
Nerchio: thanks @wlesavo it works not was a simple fix :D
AntiSquid: what? who uploaded it
eulerscheZahl: not *that* pacman
Astrobytes: jrke - you are in Legend league CSB, and you don't know whether the pod rotates before it moves?
AntiSquid: then what other pacman ?
AntiSquid: i only know 2 multis related to pacman
jrke: i was confused at the moment
eulerscheZahl: spoiler alert
jrke: it just clicked my mind thanks Astrobytes
Astrobytes: You know that other one AntiSquid
Astrobytes: I see jrke
Nerchio: euler you don't use cgbenchmark you use brutal tester? :P
Nerchio: your own sophisticated software? :D
wlesavo: im intrigued about eulers pacman now
eulerscheZahl: i play offline against myself (without brutaltester, just modifying the main class of the official referee)
wlesavo: optim pac
eulerscheZahl: and then i submit
eulerscheZahl: advanced testing :D
Nerchio: i put optim pac in the search
wlesavo: just setting player1 and player2?
Nerchio: interesting 1st puzzle
wlesavo: Nerchio :grinning:
wlesavo: optimal urinal problem seems fun
Nerchio: I'm pretty sure AntiSquid already solved it
AntiSquid: i did
AntiSquid: i go to the closed toilet areas instead
AntiSquid: and piss on the seat
AntiSquid: easy win
Tiramon: damn had to disable the timeout in my local referee to train my net ... was wondering why my bot failed to learn and he was timing out ...
wlesavo: that problem statement is brilliant
eulerscheZahl: Tiramon how did you disable it? or just increase?
wlesavo: Tiramon wouldnt you exceed total gametime limit?
Tiramon: i had to change GameRunner anyway to give my net feedback if it won or not and i just added nextPlayerInfo.timeout += 100000;
eulerscheZahl: you know about the GameResult, right?
tomatoes: full game limited to 30 secs
Tiramon: i know the class yes ... why?
Tiramon: you mean because it mentions timeout
eulerscheZahl: GameResult game = gameRunner.simulate();
if (game.scores.get(0) > game.scores.get(1)) current++;
Tiramon: but i disabled all output to get a readable log about the learning
eulerscheZahl: won't solve your time issue
eulerscheZahl: if you need all logs, that would require json parsing i think
Tiramon: are the agents still connected at that point?
AntiSquid: shit ... ate icecream too fast
eulerscheZahl: brain freeze?
eulerscheZahl: that GameResult is after the match ended
Tiramon: then it would not fit in my current solution
Tiramon: currently i send extra information to the agents
eulerscheZahl: i guess it would be easier to fully integrate the referee + bots into a single program then
eulerscheZahl: at least removes the overhead of process communication
AntiSquid: if you do self learning yes
eulerscheZahl: which takes a lot of time
AntiSquid: self play
Tiramon: normally i have a game of oware in 500ms, currently with PER it takes up to 1.2s
Quidome: I am working on depot organization, which is hex-based. Are there hex-resource for algrithmic tricks?
Tiramon: hm think PER is working ... got only 7% invalid actions currently
Tiramon: before i didn't get it below 15%
AntiSquid: what is PER ?
Astrobytes: With the PER, do you set the weights higher for the samples with timeouts and find a strategy to overcome it or do you set it lower to ignore those samples? (I'm very far from experienced)
Tiramon: AntiSquid https://arxiv.org/abs/1511.05952
Astrobytes: Prioritised experience replays AntiSquid
Astrobytes: *timeouts = invalid moves, sorry
Tiramon: i don't manipulate the weights based on invalid moves
Tiramon: i give a bad reward for invalid moves
Tiramon: the bad weights will probably result in a big delta so there is a high chance he will try to learn from that step
Astrobytes: Yeah I meant the reward, not the actual weights, my bad. Cool.
Astrobytes: Very interesting, I didn't know about it until you mentioned it earlier,
Tiramon: my rewards are score + win = 100 loss = -100 invalid -1000
Tiramon: i'm currently taking the free month at udacity
Tiramon: and do the deep reinforment learning nano degree
Tiramon: quite nice
Tiramon: and i wanted to try it on a cg game ;)
Astrobytes: Nice. And putting it to good use ofc ;)
eulerscheZahl: what do you need for that free month? just an email address?
Astrobytes: Preferably a burnable email address at that
AntiSquid: not sure i remember correctly but last time i wanted to go for a nanodegree thingy the price tag was about 400$ and i can be stingy at times
eulerscheZahl: of course. 10minutemail ftw
Tiramon: not sure what i entered, currently talking to my boss that he pays the other month
Astrobytes: haha nice
Tiramon: yes about 300-400 per month
AntiSquid: it's 4 months rights?
Tiramon: drlnd hast material for around 3 month
Tiramon: ah 4 right
Tiramon: but if you spent some time and have an idea of what you are doing i guess you can do it in less
eulerscheZahl: and what are the chances for you boss to pay? you don't need it for your daily work
Tiramon: im in for ... 1 or 2 weeks and just finished the first of three projects
eulerscheZahl: but always good to have motivated employees
AntiSquid: ya i imagined i could just do it elsewhere for free
AntiSquid: no idea how good the course is
Tiramon: we 'maybe' want to do some ML in the future and
Tiramon: he didn't say no when i asked him ;)
Astrobytes: Get 1-to-1 (socially distanced) lessons from inory y AntiSquid :P
AntiSquid: don't want to think about the fees, he lives in London no? he'll think of new ways to pay the rent
Astrobytes: Get him to travel to Oxford and that's his payment, maybe a coffee and some noodles or sth :D
AntiSquid: the 1 £ one from co-op
Astrobytes: ASDA ones are cheaper
AntiSquid: idk i tried the coop one and it's shit
AntiSquid: are the asda ones even worse?
Astrobytes: I think that's universal
Astrobytes: Been a while since I used coop so... probably just the same tbh
AntiSquid: really? korean / chinese instant noodles can be decent and even good sometimes
Astrobytes: Yeah I know, lived in Tooting for a while when I was in London, massive Asian supermarkets, market.
Astrobytes: Chilli sauce for like 5p a bottle and shit
Astrobytes: Was unreal
Astrobytes: That was around 2004-5 tho'
AntiSquid: ok that's just stupid on their behalf
Astrobytes: No. The local Asian and Indian population was *immense*. Places were permanently rammed.
tahsin314: Trump sucks!
Astrobytes: Thank you for your valuable contribution to the conversation tahsin314
tahsin314: LOL this was a valuable contribution :joy:
AntiSquid: just ignore it Astrobytes, don't even acknowledge that thing's existence
eulerscheZahl: Trump got fact-checked by twitter :D
Astrobytes: Saw that eulerscheZahl :D
MSmits: It's great
MSmits: so humiliating to have a fact check below your lies
Astrobytes: His response is somewhat disturbing however
MSmits: disturbing is normal for him
AntiSquid: he is weird
Astrobytes: One may even say, fascist
AntiSquid: in a bad way
MSmits: I thought it was ridiculous Twitter let him do what he did before. They ban anyone else who trolls that much
AntiSquid: but bush got a second mandate so kinda expect trump to still get one too
MSmits: if he does, they deserve it
MSmits: well, half of them do
AntiSquid: i wouldn't side with big social media platforms
AntiSquid: two wrongs don't make one right
MSmits: I'm not on any of them thankfully
eulerscheZahl: CodinGame is my social media platform
MSmits: yeah mine too
eulerscheZahl: and discord which i joined because of CG
AntiSquid: just the other day i saw David Icke getting banned on youtube, i mean he is clearly insane, so why ban him?
eulerscheZahl: i have no idea who that is
MSmits: I know Vincent Icke, related?
AntiSquid: someone taking the movie "They Live" way too seriously
MSmits: Who live?
AntiSquid: the movie is closer to reality than what that guy says
Astrobytes: Lizard-people guy, thinly-veiled Anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist.
eulerscheZahl: I know the Berlin dialect Icke (means ich = I/me)
AntiSquid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJC4R1uXDaE MSmits
AntiSquid: i don't get where that anti-semitic bit came from, isn't he always moaning about banksters (and ya many are part jewish)
Astrobytes: And pronounced like Ike as in bike eulerscheZahl, as opposed to a Berlin-style Ich
MSmits: that must have been a horrible movie
AntiSquid: i mean icke basically "predicts" there are corrupt elites / super rich / people in power ... and duh he is right about something lol
MSmits: some of the worst acting i ever saw
AntiSquid: MSmits the movie is great, it's old, but great movie
AntiSquid: just don't take it literally
MSmits: wasn't terminator made around the same time
AntiSquid: don't judge a book by its cover?
MSmits: some cover...
MSmits: the trailer is supposed to show the good bits :P
Astrobytes: He just takes common problems and comes up with conspiracies involving elites and lizard-people (i.e. Jews and whatnot), and people identify with the problems he identifies because they seek solutions. Populist conspiracy theorist.
Astrobytes: Makes a shit-ton of money too,
Astrobytes: Oddly enough
eulerscheZahl: oh, like kyle's brother from Southpark @Astrobytes?
Astrobytes: Yes eulerscheZahl, just like baby Ike
MSmits: isn't he canadian?
Astrobytes: lol, 'They Live', awesome
Thiesjoo: What exactly is the difference between vector and array in c++? (Just starting to learn)
Astrobytes: haha euler
MSmits: vector is always on heap Thiesjoo
MSmits: mmh you dont know what heap is
Astrobytes: Yes MSmits, that's why he has that detached head/mouth thingy
Thiesjoo: No not really, MSmits
Astrobytes: *the heap
AntiSquid: the difference is basically array is fixed size, vector is resizable
Astrobytes: as opposed to *a* heap
AntiSquid: imo most important difference
AbundantPuddle: Just read your last message Astro, and I'm going to assume you're talking about David Icke?
MSmits: it's not that easy to explain, but there's stack memory and heap memory. If you have a small array, it will often be on stack, which is faster memory. Vector will be somewhat slower, but has lots of pro's, like resizability as AntiSquid said
Thiesjoo: Ah ok, so use vectors for resizeability
Thiesjoo: And array's for fixed things
Astrobytes: Yes LargeAmountsOfAccumulatedLiquidInALimitedArea
MSmits: stack and heap are mostly conceptual and what happens under the hood might be different from what i just said... dont worry too much about it
AntiSquid: he said he started ... you don't give a shit about heap and stack when you just start
AntiSquid: you look for the tools to get shit done
MSmits: I know
AntiSquid: that's it
AbundantPuddle: Dude is a nut. Did you ever see the interview with him where he claimed to be Jesus?
Astrobytes: Yeah, that was his 'transition' moment.
Astrobytes: Very rich nut.
MSmits: Thiesjoo why are you learning c++ btw?
Scarfield: I think im happy i dont know who this Icke is
Astrobytes: AntiSquid Thiesjoo is MSmits student
AntiSquid: c++ is good keep at it Thiesjoo
Thiesjoo: Wanted to do some faster stuff
MSmits: yeah it's great, but can also be very frustrating at first
Astrobytes: I like your thinking there Thiesjoo :)
Thiesjoo: C++ has it's catches, i noticed that already
AbundantPuddle: Oh for sure. The internet has laid waste to common sense and given people like that a platform to seriously spread crazy idealogy.
AntiSquid: what? hope you not gonna say typescript is cool next
MSmits: many things you can do in a few lines in python or a few more lines in C#/java, takes a LOT of code in c++
MSmits: and you're less protected from hard to find bugs
eulerscheZahl: but for now it's time to learn Kotlin
MSmits: but it's a good challenge indeed
Thiesjoo: I worked a good bit with c# in unity(Game dev)
Astrobytes: Definitely AbundantPuddle, and the crazier the world gets, the more crazy theories people look to for an explanation as to why things are going to s**t
AbundantPuddle: Agreed 100%
MSmits: well... eulerscheZahl almost always uses C# and he's nr 1 on this site
AntiSquid: AbundantPuddle what's the real issue? someone spewing nonsense or a bunch of people acting on it and doing stupid things?
Astrobytes: Stick with C# for now then Thiesjoo
AntiSquid: + the censorship
Thiesjoo: Mmmhhh, i think i will go over to c#
Astrobytes: (not treading on your toes here I hope MSmits)
Thiesjoo: c++ is a bit too hard for now
Thiesjoo: Maybe in a year or 2
MSmits: c++ can be 2-3 times faster than C#, but it's very rarely the case that this decisive
AntiSquid: i don't think social media should be allowed to practice any form of politics
AbundantPuddle: The latter, obviously. It's just a shame that so many people can fall for some of this nonsense to begin with. And then they claim to be "woke."
MSmits: euler can usually have a somewhat better algorithm than most players and beat them, even if they use C++
AntiSquid: yes but banning nutjubs isn't the cure
MSmits: the exception would be simple board games, where you need little code to make a bot
AntiSquid: nutjobs *
MSmits: then speed might be an issue
MSmits: (like uttt)
eulerscheZahl: for bulls and cows i saw myself forced to go with C++ but as smits said: rare occasion
AbundantPuddle: I think I like nutjubs better. Can we adopt that as the new terminology?
Thiesjoo: I just did Pikaptcha ep1 with c++, but ep2 is a bit harder, so trying that now with c#
eulerscheZahl: usually the smart algo beats the faster implementation of something worse
MSmits: Thiesjoo, thats pretty cool, doing that with c++
MSmits: I did the contest version of pikachu in C# myself
MSmits: same puzzles
Thiesjoo: Yeah, got a bunch of achievements for that.
Astrobytes: Keep learning some C++ on the side though if you feel like it
Thiesjoo: Saw a bunch of people talking about it on Discord, so i taught i would join the fun
Astrobytes: Take your time
Thiesjoo: Will do
MSmits: btw, my first C++ bot, was a C# bot converted to c++
MSmits: I got to legend in uttt with C# and then switched
AntiSquid: c++ isn't hard, just need to get used to the syntax
AntiSquid: java takes more time to get used to imo
MSmits: you also need to get used to the concept of pointers and refeences
MSmits: thats much harder to learn than the syntax
MSmits: because other languages dont have that
MSmits: well references they do, but not explicit like in C++
AntiSquid: you can leave pointers out when you start :p
eulerscheZahl: a lot of languages are influenced by C and thus look similar at first. but there are fundamental differences, the deeper you dive inside
Tiramon: i slowly get used to python currently ;)
MSmits: smaller programs where speed isnt important should be done in python
AntiSquid: those are the easiest languages imo :p
MSmits: or java/C# if you're good with it
AntiSquid: especially python
Thiesjoo: I made a maze solver/generator in python, so i have the code for Pikaptcha ep2
Thiesjoo: Now converting it to c#
MSmits: whats ep2 again?
MSmits: a wrapping maze?
Thiesjoo: Maze solver that follows the wall
eulerscheZahl: normal maze
eulerscheZahl: ep1 = neighbor counting
MSmits: ohhh ok
eulerscheZahl: till then the contest was going great for me
AntiSquid: 3 is wrapping (fake mobius strip)
MSmits: yeah like 15 mins for episode 1 and 2? And then an hour for episode 3?
eulerscheZahl: and then the fake Möbius happened
MSmits: for the Mobius you should just reverse engineer the testcase
MSmits: unless they fixed the description
AntiSquid: no he didn't
MSmits: the description only confused me
AntiSquid: that's where you pull a ceg and ask questions in chat or watch replays, don't even look at statement
Astrobytes: Does your CS teaching cover architecture, memory, pointers MSmits?
MSmits: I have not done that much CS this year Astrobytes, just 4 hrs a week
Astrobytes: Ah OK
MSmits: but pretty sure it doesnt cover pointers, it will cover architecture and memory I think
MSmits: my colleague did most (15 hrs a week)
Astrobytes: Pointers will come naturally after understanding memory and architecture
MSmits: most of my classes were about python and algorithms
Astrobytes: Ah right
MSmits: I am considering doing a project on teaching machine learning next year
AntiSquid: "not that much CS" reminds me of how after 3 years of 1 hour / week we finally did heap/queues/binary tree searches and lots of other basic stuff in the "IT" class
MSmits: so we might add that to Thiesjoo's curriculum
Thiesjoo: Seems cool
AntiSquid: (this was in highschool)
MSmits: I have to do it for my studies
Astrobytes: It is Thiesjoo :)
MSmits: some project
Astrobytes: Never did anything like that when I was in highschool AntiSquid, I knew more than my 'Computing' teacher :D
MSmits: Thiesjoo it's not certain, might be I end up doing it in a lower year
MSmits: but last year seems more natural
AntiSquid: glad we studied 5 hours a week literature in one language and 5 in another
Tiramon: ok i guess after the current training i send my new weights to cg and try to beat this stupid invalid actions
Astrobytes: Best of luck Tiramon :)
MSmits: AntiSquid you seem quite literate though
MSmits: so good job on that
AntiSquid: i don't use those languages in my daily life
MSmits: yeah, I'm glad I could drop most languages in the last 2 years of my high school
Astrobytes: Which languages?
MSmits: just Dutch and English for me
Thiesjoo: And i have to deal with german?!
MSmits: yes Thiesjoo, sorry
Thiesjoo: Unfair MSmits
MSmits: I agree it is
eulerscheZahl: i have to deal with German too
Astrobytes: Hey I always enjoyed German back in school
AntiSquid: write your variable names in german Thiesjoo
Thiesjoo: I don't think that would be nice AntiSquid. English for me please
MSmits: the years after I was done with high school, my country decided that students like Thiesjoo need to learn either German or French
AntiSquid: well once you done your coding part just replace variable names Thiesjoo
Astrobytes: That's the only choice we had MSmits
eulerscheZahl: for us it was French or Latin
Tiramon: what for AntiSquid? low level obfuscating?
MSmits: ah some do Latin here as well, but very few
AntiSquid: obfuscation is a side effect
Astrobytes: Whereas, my uncle for instance - at the same highschool - learned Latin, Greek and Ancient Greek
AntiSquid: make the code annoying to read
Astrobytes: How times change
eulerscheZahl: and when I finished school I was lucky that our Minister of defense decided to pause military duty \o/
Astrobytes: Very lucky.
AntiSquid: i think that was related to the EU
eulerscheZahl: soon after he had to resign as he cheated on his PhD
MSmits: you mean the draft?
eulerscheZahl: as in: copy-pasted most of it :D
Astrobytes: lol that's brilliant
Astrobytes: Not for him I guess
AntiSquid: what gave it away?
eulerscheZahl: the barcode indicated copying without cites
AntiSquid: reminds me of a certain head of IT that got a jail sentence because he lied he had a degree in CS
AbundantPuddle: I code in Klingon
AntiSquid: not gonna say which company
AntiSquid: you can guess
Astrobytes: "At least 21.5% of his dissertation consists of plagiarism" - :o
AbundantPuddle: and use nested infinite loops
eulerscheZahl: quite an achievement to pass on the first run with it
MSmits: maybe he should only have been 78.5% fired?
AntiSquid: so basically you don't even need to get the phd some times
MSmits: wait that doesnt make sense,
MSmits: 21.5% it is
eulerscheZahl: AntiSquid Peter Knight?
Astrobytes: That's a f***ing lot of plagiarism!
MSmits: I have had students that did more, but I guess they aren't ministers
eulerscheZahl: and after that some other PhDs of politicians were examined
eulerscheZahl: and others had to resign as well :D
AbundantPuddle: It's like he didn't even try. He must have literally just copied and pasted.
MSmits: it's pretty hard to steal a PhD in physics
AntiSquid: did they get sued for it euler
MSmits: it's gonna get noticed more easily
AntiSquid: also yes euler
Astrobytes: It's easy to get qualifications if you are privileged enough to have the right contacts in the right places
eulerscheZahl: i claim the google power user badge then :)
MSmits: people in social sciences write so much, that noone is going to read most of it anyway :P
AntiSquid: was obv you used that lol
AbundantPuddle: Now was this the Minister of Defense that you guys are talking about?
eulerscheZahl: the guy with the many first names
eulerscheZahl: Karl-Theodor Maria Nikolaus Johann Jacob Philipp Franz Joseph Sylvester Buhl-Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg
AbundantPuddle: Just googled it. Lol.
Astrobytes: Karl-Theodor Maria Nikolaus Johann Jacob Philipp Franz Joseph Sylvester Buhl-Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg
MSmits: Did he plagiarize other people's names as well?
Astrobytes: OH DAMN you euler
eulerscheZahl: when he got the job, someone added an extra first name to his wikipedia page
MSmits: I bet noone noticed :P
eulerscheZahl: was only there for a short time but some news reporter copied the name from that wiki article :D
AbundantPuddle: [...] he may have made errors in his footnotes. Lmao.
eulerscheZahl: then it was printed, so it has to be correct, right? so wikipedia added the wrong extra name again
eulerscheZahl: and when his cheating became obvious, someone added the name Xerox to the list
MSmits: I had a colleague once that edited a wiki about submarines and just changed some type numbers. Noone notices this. That's why you need to be careful
jacek: welp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henryk_Batuta_hoax
Astrobytes: "Noone notices this" - except people who fact-check their wikipedia info ;) Which one must always do.
Astrobytes: I've used Wikipedia for references in a few courses, but you have to do some real detective work and know wtf you're on about
Astrobytes: *referenced Wikipedia
AntiSquid: i think this still pales in comparison to Kim Jung-Un's self created image
AbundantPuddle: Is his name really Guttenberg? Or is that just a play at Gutenberg?
Astrobytes: It's sometimes better just to reference the citated reference though
AntiSquid: the guy walked out of his mom's place when he was 20, not her flat ...
Astrobytes: *cited, where did I get citated from?
AbundantPuddle: "citated" sounds dirty.
Astrobytes: Only in your mind CopiusFloodedArea
AbundantPuddle: I citated the hell out of that paper.
Astrobytes: domicitrix, she who citates the most
Astrobytes: *domicitatrix, w/e
Stanworld: in a bots challenge, what s happens if i submit 2 times in 10sec by misclick ?
MSmits: it just restarts
Astrobytes: You submit 2 times
MSmits: doesnt matter
AntiSquid: you need to submit more frequently to unlock the minigame Stanworld
Astrobytes: Keep doing that though and you'll reach a submit limit
MSmits: if you do it too often, then the server thinks you're a bot and you'll be studying traffic lights
Stanworld: AntiSquid, are you telling there is a eastern egg ?
MSmits: yes Stanworld, if you think the bot game is hard, try identifying the traffic lights
Astrobytes: Lies. He tells you lies STanworld
AntiSquid: a very fun one, helps you check how much your resemble a real bot Stanworld
Astrobytes: Isn't that related to the ANEO puzzle MSmits
MSmits: hmm dont remember. I am sure I solved it
MSmits: it said i could apply for a job at the end right/
Astrobytes: The speed/traddic light one
Astrobytes: *traffic ffs
AntiSquid: ya MSmits but it was for specific country
Stanworld: i watched 'ready player one" some days before start 'spring challenge 2020"
MSmits: it was ok
Astrobytes: Did it inspire you?
Astrobytes: I haven't seen it tbh
MSmits: better than They live
Stanworld: about old fashion game, and the very first easter egg... kind of inspirating
Astrobytes: You've not seen 'They Live'
AbundantPuddle: I always found those captchas discriminatory.
AntiSquid: the cover art kinda reminds of the movie player one, but it's nothing like the movie
MSmits: dont need to Astrobytes
MSmits: I judged the cover
AntiSquid: i had the book at some point
Astrobytes: MSmits it's actually really good
AntiSquid: there's a bunch of books detailing people's adventure in online games
MSmits: are you saying it's not like a sharknado movie?
Astrobytes: It's not like a Sharknado movie
AntiSquid: MSmits what movies did you watch and enjoyed? curious
MSmits: not even sharknado 2?
Astrobytes: It's actually pretty relevant
MSmits: name a genre?
AntiSquid: MSmits i mean a movie title
Astrobytes: pornogr... I mean sci-fi
Stanworld: i diminush the limit of 'deep' my diffuse algorithm can go, to avoid some timeout, seems to work , and climlbing in the ladder, slowly and ...not so surely
AbundantPuddle: Camp Cuddly Pines Power Tool Massacre
MSmits: Tremors is an awesome classic
AntiSquid: also "They Live" is about as educational as animal farm or 1984
Astrobytes: Right, I'm not doing this 2 nights in a row
MSmits: back to the code?
MSmits: making squares with a snake?
Astrobytes: Yeah, should be BTMC
Stanworld: seem very "random" how my rank vary during the submit , i can gain 100 ranks and lost 300 just after some seconds...
Astrobytes: (BAck to my code)
MSmits: back too monte carlo?
AntiSquid: MSmits tremors looks like a bad old horror movie
MSmits: Stanworld that can mean several things
Tiramon: Stanworld it's Trueskill algo
MSmits: sometimes it means the bots are all pretty close together
MSmits: sometimes it means there's strong rock paper scissors effects and you're unlucky with opponents
Astrobytes: You've never seen Tremors AntiSquid? :o
MSmits: AntiSquid it might be like they live and you had to have seen it at the time it was made
Astrobytes: (I'm breaking my rule here)
AntiSquid: reminds me ofThe Langoliers or whatever it was called, just by looking at it
MSmits: but it is pretty cool
Astrobytes: No, They Live is also worth watching MSmits, really
Stanworld: well , i used to love "random" in my algorithms as a reference bot to beat before submit, but now i swear there are very few random in my last submit
MSmits: tremors > langoliers, but langoliers was ok
AntiSquid: MSmits They Live is timeless
AntiSquid: there's an important message in the movie
MSmits: and RockyMullet is in it
tomatoes: hate random
Astrobytes: As Squid said, like 1984 or Animal Farm, that kinda thing
Tiramon: The Court Jester is a timeless one ;)
AntiSquid: have you seen Donnie Drako ?
MSmits: donnie darko is very good
MSmits: one of my favorite movies
MSmits: like the song too
AntiSquid: ok so maybe you don't have bad taste :p
Astrobytes: Also a great movie
MSmits: did you see Memento AntiSquid?
AntiSquid: not sure
AntiSquid: rings a bell
MSmits: guy with a 15 min memory, movie is in reverse
Tiramon: memento is fun
MSmits: so you know as much as he does
MSmits: the scenes are in reverse i mean
MSmits: not the action
MSmits: reverse order
AntiSquid: i don't know if i've seen that or not ... sounds so damn familiar
Stanworld: i loved memento
Tiramon: damn should have added an eta to my training script ...
Stanworld: memento referenced by xkcd
Astrobytes: Pretty sure xkcd has every subject covered :D
eulerscheZahl: is there an xkcd about xkcd covering everything?
Astrobytes: Well, you got me there. I will go with 'possibly'
Stanworld: there are standards to cover...
Astrobytes: jacek no, when I try to find an xkcd about xkcd covering every subject I get a 2.66% relevant xkcd
eulerscheZahl: there's always a relevant xkcd gives #1079
eulerscheZahl: not a match either
Astrobytes: I can't get anything relevant
Astrobytes: Perhaps we need to contact them
Astrobytes: It's bed time for you eulerscheZahl
eulerscheZahl: home office screwed up my sleeping habits
Astrobytes: We noticed :D
eulerscheZahl: i even miss some of my colleagues
Astrobytes: Wow. Lockdown is really getting to you
eulerscheZahl: not the ones who run against the door when opening it and scaring me
eulerscheZahl: my desk is next to a really loud door
Astrobytes: Insensitive w**kers
AbundantPuddle: 0.08333333333333333 != 0.08333333333333334
Astrobytes: don't compare floats/doubles like that
eulerscheZahl: another colleague got my desk (distancing) now. first this he did was to put a paper on the door "no entrance"
eulerscheZahl: he was one of those how annoyed me before
AbundantPuddle: Don't tell me what to do.
Astrobytes: Those kind of people annoy me greatly in offices eulerscheZahl
eulerscheZahl: and we had one, when he was on the phone he talked so loud that everyone (about 50 people) could hear him
AbundantPuddle: On a big enough scale, though, that little bit does make a difference.
eulerscheZahl: but he's retired now. was fun how unfriendly he was sometimes :D
Stanworld: bedtime... good bye youngs ones
AbundantPuddle: On a big enough scale, though, that little bit does make a difference.
Astrobytes: Who you calling young Stanworld?
AbundantPuddle: He said youngs, not young. I think it's an acronym for something derogatory.
eulerscheZahl: lots of 30+ users here right now
Astrobytes: We had issues like that in my last (and only :D ) dev job, Sales was through a tiny corridor from our Dev Cupboard. We had this guy who you could ALWAYS hear
Astrobytes: And he had a really annoying voice
Tiramon: someone like that is sitting right infront of me in the same room ...
Astrobytes: Working late Tiramon?
eulerscheZahl: HELLO! HELLO! CAN YOU HEAR ME? HELLO! i left office earlier the day he had an important call and couldn't connect
Tiramon: no not right now ... at work
Astrobytes: Ah right. It's SO distracting
eulerscheZahl: my current desk in company is ok-ish (great compared to other desks)
eulerscheZahl: about 7 people in a separated area
eulerscheZahl: main office is about 50 persons
eulerscheZahl: and then there's me who doesn't like social interaction and doesn't even want you to see my screen
Astrobytes: slightly OT: eulerscheZahl, here's my last dev job's website: https://web.archive.org/web/20010428070259/http://www.2webpages.com/
eulerscheZahl: i remember that
eulerscheZahl: you shared it one day, complaining about the colors used
Astrobytes: Oh you saw that
Astrobytes: yeah the #FF6600 orange
eulerscheZahl: damn, i missed the PS2 competition:(
Astrobytes: I so wish the original was available
Astrobytes: If you look in the page source you can see my font class "weeoran" - meaning small orange (Scottish wee = small)
Astrobytes: Getting all that crap to display properly in all browsers back then was a nightmare. Today's frontend guys don't know how good they have it
eulerscheZahl: and we can just ignore internet explorer
eulerscheZahl: to simplify further
Astrobytes: Trying to get JS to work properly was just... omg. And JS itself then was... omg
eulerscheZahl: and netspace navigator was the hottest shit
eulerscheZahl: and altavista to search anything and get hlep
Astrobytes: We switched from perl/MySQL to perl/XML/XSLT for that redesign
eulerscheZahl: oh wait. you had your own search engine. use your own product
Astrobytes: No it was a business search engine
Astrobytes: It would have been successful but for greedy owners
Astrobytes: *netscape navigator btw :P And don't get me started
MSmits: I remember when altavista was google
MSmits: well the google of its time
Astrobytes: Google started getting good around 2000/2001 (in relative terms)
Astrobytes: Btw, for the record, I strongly contested the use of that 'towpy' mascot on the aforementioned website
MSmits: whats towpy?
Astrobytes: scroll up and click the webarchive link
Astrobytes: 'Towpy' is that native American stereotype cartoon face at the top of the page.
Astrobytes: 'towp' was a domain name we had, so our amazingly creative Creative Director came up with 'Towpy' as an 'identifiable character for our brand'
Astrobytes: You can probably tell why I gravitated towards backend dev
AntiSquid: just watched tremors, i think it's shit
AntiSquid: needed the explanation
AntiSquid: also reminds me of hellraiser, which was imo also extremely shit, sorry
MSmits: you watched the entire movie just now?
MSmits: hellraiser sounds like a completely different kind of movie though?
Astrobytes: He watches on FF
AntiSquid: i mean in terms of quality
AntiSquid: just double speed
Astrobytes: You cannot compare Hellraiser and Tremors
AntiSquid: i mean they are equally bad
MSmits: dont remember seeing hellraiser
Astrobytes: The pinhead guy, Cenobites, the puzzlebox?
AntiSquid: you can't compare the story and the theme no
AntiSquid: but if you watched those, how can you hate sharknado?
MSmits: i just saw trailers of sharknado, maybe it's great
MSmits: i did see some tomato horror, seemed similar
MSmits: attack of the killer tomatoes?
MSmits: or something like that
AntiSquid: you're just a salad tomato
Astrobytes: I used Hellraiser samples for this shit tune back in the day: https://hearthis.at/team174/4-astrocyte-tear-you-apart/
Astrobytes: 'scuse the quality
AntiSquid: btw i remember pinhead got turned into human and started whining about it, then in another movie on a space ship he was finally destroyed
AntiSquid: or locked in his realm
AntiSquid: how does that work lol
AntiSquid: also since he was basically demoted from his manager position in torture realm, how did he get back in charge again?
Astrobytes: Don't think I watched past the first one or two, just plundered for samples
AntiSquid: ya it's really stupid
AntiSquid: but that's how horror movies are
Astrobytes: They just rinse the franchises for all they're worth
Astrobytes: Flog the dead horse and all that
AntiSquid: Astrobytes in one of the movies he messed with an angel, then he got turned into human as "punishment" then he moaned his pain is gone and movie ends LOL
Astrobytes: Sorry, just listening to my old tune, I quite like it besides the poor production
AntiSquid: hm well quoting ceg's GAimax algo might be a bit too rude
AntiSquid: (he actually ade up that name)
Astrobytes: Yeah cegimax/GAimax
AntiSquid: make the troll say at the start: Powered by true AI
AntiSquid: yes JBM, i call it gaymax
Astrobytes: Well, he didn't know if he'd written a GA or a minimax. And then claimed it used a payoff matrix. Then it turned out it was a MC.
AntiSquid: don't type it as gaymax, might be edited then
AntiSquid: write GAimax
AntiSquid: i would put "true AI" in middle
Neumann: But, does it prune ?
Astrobytes: It's the fact I spent hours explaining minimax and a/b pruning to him, gave him half my eval function and a skeleton "solve" method... and he still came out with GAimax
AntiSquid: also write "SEARCHO NO CHOKUDAI" (search of chokudai) to make it more aligned with the meme's origin
AntiSquid: just my suggestions
Astrobytes: I try to be helpful
AntiSquid: make adjustments as you see fit, it's your game
Neumann: Why trolling Chokudai ? It's kind of a good idea. Better than Cegimax for sure
AntiSquid: not trolling, popularizing
Astrobytes: For sure Neumann :)
AntiSquid: shows enthusiasm JBM
AntiSquid: like BANZAI!
Astrobytes: Something like "Should've used a Prune Array" when you lose would be cool
AntiSquid: actually "True AI, no sim" would be more accurate than just true ai on it's on, if you do add that
Astrobytes: ceg had an array of... some numbers, which he was using to prune moves in his ... um .... cegimax algo
Astrobytes: This was during the a/b pruning discussion
AntiSquid: ceg's complex algos sound like adding bugs back in after fixing a bot because it dropped in rank
AntiSquid: no offense, it's just how i see it
Astrobytes: ceg misunderstands the algos. A lot.
Astrobytes: Because he won't read or pay attention long enough to get it.
Astrobytes: JBM: Prune array https://imgur.com/iaFvAsL
AntiSquid: should link him a few materials about the slime mold algo then, would like to see more creative stuff
Astrobytes: I like ceg, he's not a bad guy at all, but I wish to hell he would just listen and take the time to learn
Astrobytes: I'm not even a dev ffs
Astrobytes: And I'm teaching him
Astrobytes: The path of least resistance
Astrobytes: Then moans about the leaderboard when he doesn't rank as high as he expected
Astrobytes: tl;dr "the easy legend way"
AntiSquid: but often people get legend and then notice a major bug they fix in legend so it's not far from the truth
Astrobytes: Which 'e' JBM?
AntiSquid: best example: MBits doing PCR, being at #2 and then fixing a bug "finally" and getting 1st
MSmits: I did that?
MSmits: why do people remember things I did better than me :(
AntiSquid: i remember your chat ramblings yes
AntiSquid: because you write huge paragraphs about it
MSmits: that's true
AntiSquid: you SPAM the chat with that kind of stuff
Astrobytes: Ah that's an indicator of 'average amount' JBM
AntiSquid: hard to forget when there's a wall of text with just htat
MSmits: oh, that's a good theory, it's out of my system and into AntiSquid's
Astrobytes: At least MSmits's walls of text are usually worth reading
Astrobytes: Nameless Individuals Who Post Walls Of Text
Astrobytes: But there's a difference between posting nonsense and sensible rubberducking/explanations
MSmits: we had them before
MSmits: i do a little less of it these days, but we had cyberpunk too
AntiSquid: in fact judging by the amounts of bugs described during your PCR journey, i guess ceg should get easy legend in most multis MSmits
AntiSquid: if he implement gaymax correctly
MSmits: by reading my bug reports?
MSmits: you mean that cegimax?
AntiSquid: he wrote GAimax 3 times
AntiSquid: or more
MSmits: I'm not sure if this chat is good for you AntiSquid :P
AntiSquid: i am watching shitty movies in between
MSmits: well you seem to lack a good filter and remember all the useless stuff as well :P
AntiSquid: doesn't make much of a difference
MSmits: memory overload
Astrobytes: He didn't know if his algo was A GA, or a minimax, but he was convinced it had a payoff matrix, yet couldn't describe how he chose a move based on that MSmits
AntiSquid: i remember a lot of useless shit from my childhood
AntiSquid: even some kindergarten bits
MSmits: they had bits in kindergarten??
AntiSquid: but when it comes to stuff i really want to remember then i fail :(
MSmits: I remember stuff from my kindergarten but it was mostly quarrels about who got to play with which toy
MSmits: we didnt do any bitboards
MSmits: mmh or maybe we did and I repressed it
MSmits: tbh it would explain a lot
Astrobytes: Bet you were banned from playing board games with any of the other kids
AntiSquid: i need to form better habits though it's true
AntiSquid: AutomatonNN i am leaving you, bye you filth, you mean nothing to me
MSmits: I was really good at chess in primary school, but never played it after, so now i suck
AutomatonNN: can't solve the puzzle of the week
Astrobytes: Doesn't take long to get up to speed again MSmits, but all the openings and endings... meh. Better with Fischer Random
AntiSquid: i beat my chemistry teacher in chess, supposedly one of the best MSmits
MSmits: one of my colleagues is a chemistry teacher and a good chess player
MSmits: he did speed-chess against a bunch of students at once
Astrobytes: AT least Fischer Random is actually about playing chess. Not just opening/ending books
AntiSquid: just watch magnus carlsen and realize you don't want to learn chess, you want to live life not become a human chess bot
MSmits: thats what he likes
Astrobytes: I went off chess because of the robotic memorisation aspect
MSmits: the sad thing about being that good is that you can't stop or you'll stop being the best
MSmits: so you get a very monotonous life
MSmits: I mean, at least play a different game every once in a while
MSmits: Astrobytes yeah i dont like the memorization either
Astrobytes: TRy Fischer Random
MSmits: I prefer simpler games
MSmits: less different types of pieces and such
Astrobytes: It's random starting positions, invented by the one and only Bobby Fischer
AntiSquid: might even be the choice between a monotonous life and being a nobody though
MSmits: oh, I finally got my grade for my internet security class
AntiSquid: anyone good at parsing CG replays btw ?
MSmits: 10/10 !
MSmits: AntiSquid euler
AntiSquid: he linked me the CG encoder i think
MSmits: gotta wait for him to wake up
AntiSquid: and it looked like lots of headaches
MSmits: it's definitely a nice skill to have on CG
Astrobytes: gz MSmits
Astrobytes: What about his tech.io playground AntiSquid?
MSmits: thanks... i didnt even like the subject much, but I just did the homework. Some of you guys helped me a few times btw.
MSmits: euler, counterbalance etc.
Astrobytes: yeah I remember your nmap fun
MSmits: yeah that
AntiSquid: he made one that explains replay parsing ?
AntiSquid: i only remember the basic replay download bit
Astrobytes: Ah yeah, the rest is down to you
AntiSquid: he downloads replays and extracts the stdout
Astrobytes: But he (and others) will answer reasonable/sensible questions wrt the subject
AntiSquid: what i meant is interpreting the .view bit, which is like trying to understand dark magic
Astrobytes: Waht do you want with the viewer?
AntiSquid: i mean the view element in the json string
Astrobytes: iirc from a discussion the other day/night, you need to ignore that whole part
AntiSquid: his article explains the stdout element
Astrobytes: It's full of JS right?
Astrobytes: The view JSON that is
AntiSquid: more like a cryptic description of where different pieces are on the screen at a given frame
Astrobytes: Yeah you don't need that iirc, dbdr and eulerscheZahl can go into more detail for you
Astrobytes: You're looking for the moves
AntiSquid: i know where the other stuff is
Astrobytes: Use that and ignore that other BS
Astrobytes: You know where pieces are and whatnot because you've extracted the moves. ERgo, you don't need the viewer bollocks
AntiSquid: you don't but only way i can find what happened is replay the moves locally
Astrobytes: What you just want the actual game result?
Astrobytes: Or you're looking for timeouts?
AntiSquid: look at specific frame data
Astrobytes: I guess then that's local replay, what are you looking for specifically and in what game?
AntiSquid: in all replays
AntiSquid: searching for trends
AntiSquid: xr atm
Astrobytes: I think you should give euler or reCurs e a shout
Astrobytes: Or whoever else does stats on replays like that
Astrobytes: If you're going frame-by-frame that may be different to turns so...
AntiSquid: it's more like looking for specific scenarios and see how the winning bot reacted to it
Astrobytes: Still trying to crack Legend on XR?
Astrobytes: (I don't mean that in a derogatory sense btw)
AntiSquid: no worries
Astrobytes: I know I've not worked on my XR for a while, but you might be overthinking it
AntiSquid: i don't just want legend
AntiSquid: then i could just go the pacman route and tweak vars + submit spam
Astrobytes: Yeah but small steps can sometimes take you further than giant leaps into the unknown
Astrobytes: Anyway, I'm out. Brain no work-y from round-about-now.
Astrobytes: Bear in mind not to think tooo far ahead tho man, it's a multi not a contest.
Astrobytes: Gn anyway, and bn JBM if you're around
AntiSquid: how's your troll ?
AntiSquid: didn't want to commit any effort before i see the final game, whatever you decide to do
AntiSquid: i try to always submit default code in D in multis i didn't touch at all
AntiSquid: that's fine
AntiSquid: does my opinion matter more if i get top 10 with D ?
AntiSquid: well there's a flaw with that logic
AntiSquid: top 10 will skew things in their favor
AntiSquid: pb4 got a perceptrong train for this? :p
Xlos: Wait this CoC is just wrong
pb4: AntiSquid ?
AntiSquid: was wondering if you have any type of NN for troll vs castles
AntiSquid: hey Tiramon i see you succeeded with your experiment, how long did it take in total ?
pb4: nah AntiSquid, it's a simple game, stick with a simple solution
AntiSquid: simple ML
pb4: why ML ?