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cegprakash: for those who missed my stream today :

jacek: happy Caturday

cegprakash: Saelyos

cegprakash: how does Saelyos GA's on opponent :o

cegprakash: isn't nested GA too slow?

abt8601: On the coordination system, I remember seeing somewhere in the contribution guideline writes that this is a convention is CodinGame.

abt8601: *in

CyberLemonade: It's a convention usually in graphics too

CyberLemonade: 0,0 is top left

Csipcsirip: stupid convention tho imo

Csipcsirip: confuses every beginnners

eulerscheZahl: for me that coord system feels natural

eulerscheZahl: i guess because i saw it so often before CG

Csipcsirip: yeah same


cegprakash: does ur PacMan collision code similar to mine eulerscheZahl

cegprakash: also what do u think about

cegprakash: he mentioned he used GA vs GA vs GA vs GA ...

cegprakash: isn't that too slow?

cegprakash: I mean it can work if he has a depth of 1 at each GA

cegprakash: but I wonder what depth he finally achieved with this strat

cegprakash: I think what he does is random vs enemy GA vs his GA vs enemy GA vs his GA (finally maximize this score)

cegprakash: which can be really good against greedy bots

Default avatar.png Asscannon: parsing

Ryao: hi

Default avatar.png TheFlyingStopwatchAndHisDog_b771: hi

Ryao: i am knew to this chat

BenWo: hello

Default avatar.png TheFlyingStopwatchAndHisDog_b771: same :)

Ryao: so i am not so lonely

BenWo: yeah better to chat occasionally

BenWo: also good for wasting time :p

Doju: Heya

Doju: BenWo whats up

Csipcsirip: this new integrated ide is better than most ide in linux

BenWo: heya Doju

BenWo: not too much

BenWo: hopping between puzzles here :)

BenWo: how 'bout you?

Doju: alright

Doju: uhh, just procrastinating on doing important stuff :P

Doju: the usual

BenWo: heh, indeed :)

Default avatar.png fangskills: anybody know how to solve the Only Negative test case in the temperatures puzzle

BenWo: don't recall

BenWo: can you give the jist of it?

Default avatar.png fangskills: "Write a program that prints the temperature closest to 0 among input data. If two numbers are equally close to zero, positive integer has to be considered closest to zero (for instance, if the temperatures are -5 and 5, then display 5)."

Default avatar.png fangskills: Everything else works, its just the "Only Numbers" test case

BenWo: compare absolute values

Marchete: sort data by abs(value), then by positive/negative

Default avatar.png fangskills: like this? negativeTemps.sort((a, b) => Math.abs(b) - Math.abs(a))

   positiveTemps.sort((a, b) => Math.abs(a) - Math.abs(b))

Marchete: I think not

Marchete: sort must be at the same time

Marchete: like first sort by abs(value) and if they are the same then by positive/negative

Default avatar.png fangskills: Math.abs(negativeTemps.sort((a, b) => b - a))

Marchete: maybe abs(x-0.1) or something similar, I can't recall

Marchete: the thing is that positive numbers must be sorted in first place

Marchete: or sort by (abs(x),-x) is python allows it

Default avatar.png fangskills: i didn't write a if function lol im so stupid

jacek: :o

Marchete: :anguished:

eulerscheZahl: :confused:

Default avatar.png The_Anonymous: :no_mouth:

Default avatar.png JBM: :mask:

DaNinja: sigh :(

kovi: bugged?

DaNinja: yep, it was working better 30 minutes ago

kovi: illedan fixed it wrongly. should consider order

kovi: when touching multiple cps in the same turn

Marchete: rushed optim....

DaNinja: yes, I noticed that on cp 0 and 1

kovi: yeah, i meant turn36

kovi: hmm, actually my current solver also relies on that bug :o

kovi: (unknowingly)

pb4: Doesn't the engine require the the center of the pod touches the CP ?

kovi: it does but probably checks each cp separately

DaNinja: yes, but the car can cross two cps in one turn, and they dont have to be in the right order

kovi: not comparing time of touch

pb4: ohhhhhh

pb4: I see how it could be implemented wrong :)

kovi: sure, i have the similar bug (my code went wrong yesterday)

kovi: hmm, i got an interesting insight even improved my csb bot

kovi: (not seriously as per 2^n, but still)

Default avatar.png amol: Does anyone know how to crack the game: There is no Spoon i did not even get what exactly is expected

H.S.H: hello how can i make 1110 to 1,1,1,0 ?

DollarAkshay: @H.S.H You will have to be more precise with that question

H.S.H: its will take me a nuber phone and i need to havethem 1 by 1 to translate it

H.S.H: like 0913254 to (0,9,1,2,...)

H.S.H: than use dict an tanslate it to morce

NapTown: covert to string then iterate over characters

H.S.H: th

reCurse: A night of training and -5 improvement... I think I'm done.

eulerscheZahl: nice job

eulerscheZahl: do you have the checkpoint order bug included?

reCurse: No

Mimino_Cj: hi

reCurse: Probably doesn't matter and will get fixed

reCurse: Alright it's moving time

reCurse: Bye

Astrobytes: Good luck and enjoy!

Default avatar.png bunzkaur: interesting!!

jrke: hey guys trying fantastic bits how to prevent from bludgers

WINWINWIN: jrke obliviate

eulerscheZahl: most useless spell of the game

CyberLemonade: is creating a class containing 1 integer equally fast as just having an integer

CyberLemonade: meaning: class Test{int value} object vs int value

Csipcsirip: if you use c# class will be probably sower because it will be created on the heap and you will access it by reference

CyberLemonade: hmmmm

CyberLemonade: thanks

struct: What do you think?


eulerscheZahl: now it looks like the original :)

ZarthaxX: gooooooooooood struct

Astrobytes: hell yeah struct, much better

Snef: noice

struct: thanks

Snef: did you tried the black circle without white border ?

struct: Ill do a few more touches to UI then Ill finish statemnt

struct: yeah, I think it looks better without white border

struct: But I left it on the pic :p

Snef: ok cool

Snef: seems perfect then

struct: without white border on stones


struct: Snef do you also mean no white border on rings?

struct: Or its fine on rings?

Snef: i'd say remove on ring too


Snef: mmmmh

struct: I think border on ring looks better

Snef: well the problem is that with black border they are much thicker

struct: they look more thick

struct: They are the same thickness

struct: but with white it doesnt look as thick

Snef: could you try without any border ?

struct: Sure

Snef: i mean is it possible just on black circle ?

struct: to remove the border just on black?

Snef: yea

struct: yeah


struct: Might be good like this

Snef: yeap but maybe others won't agree idk :p

darkhorse64: Sorry if someone already posted about it on the chat but there is a bug in Search Race referee: while accounting for multiple checkpoint intersections, it ignores their order. In Hold the line, when the car returns, it moves frequently on CP 1 then 0, it counts as if it moves over 0 then 1. CP is then turned on

darkhorse64: CP 2

Snef: I'm pretty sure it has already been posted

Snef: not sure if Illedan saw it tho

darkhorse64: Ah yes a few hours ago. Dunno if is related to latest changes but my bot is now unable to reach 100%. I get the test s right but one or two validators fail

Snef: sames validator each time ?

darkhorse64: No, but GA is not deterministic

Snef: i have that too

Snef: i have to do like 5 submit to get 100%

darkhorse64: I try to avoid captchas or worse being locked so I have tried to analyse my sim. That's how I found the pb.

darkhorse64: Gotta go

eulerscheZahl: regarding Search Race: IlledanToday at 5:21 PM I will fix it in a few hours when I get back home.

Alshock: I'm curious though, how can that bug be a disadvantage to you darkhorse64? If it's not an idustrial secret ofc

Alshock: from my naive point of view, it's a little bonus at worse

Alshock: -e+t

Snef: if you reuse your last turn solution for seed you will not optimize as fast i guess

Alshock: oh yeah, if you notice your paths are out of date and start again from scratch then yeah it can hurt


WINWINWIN: I have this statement in python3

WINWINWIN: if (color_a in rotated_grid[i]) == True:

WINWINWIN: and even though the color is very clearly in the array

WINWINWIN: 2 ['.', '.', '.', '.', '.', '.', '.', '.', '.', '.', '2', '2']

WINWINWIN: (From Stderr)

WINWINWIN: itt returns False why?

Counterbalance: int vs string?

WINWINWIN: No, checked that

WINWINWIN: I printed the type of color_a to stderr as well

WINWINWIN: it was <class, st>


Default avatar.png Aesop:

Default avatar.png Aesop: DEFIB is a string, by the way

Default avatar.png Aesop: Thankful for any help I can get

Counterbalance: j = DEFIB.length is an assignment

Default avatar.png Aesop: ah shit

Default avatar.png Aesop: ==

Default avatar.png Aesop: :)

Default avatar.png Aesop: thanks buddy

Counterbalance: j <

Default avatar.png Aesop: gotcha

Counterbalance: WINWINWIN maybe the problem is elsewhere? I tested this script in python3 and it works as expected:


Counterbalance: (i'm a python noob though)

WINWINWIN: Hmm Counterbalance,

WINWINWIN: (b in a)

WINWINWIN: I did not use the brackets

WINWINWIN: is that important?

Counterbalance: I think you can get away with if color_a in rotated_grid[i]

anid: WINWINWIN, I don't know why your error is happening, so better if you write your own contains() method

anid: Just do it via for loop and you should not be able to go wrong, it will not have any performance impact

WINWINWIN: Will try that ty anid

pb4: "Snef 17H14 I'm pretty sure it has already been posted not sure if Illedan saw it tho"

pb4: he knows

struct: Might need to change some things, due to the making player 2 black

WINWINWIN: contains method doesnt work as well

WINWINWIN: def contains(arr, elmt):

WINWINWIN: Is this a correct implementation of checking whether there the element is there in py3?

eulerscheZahl: if element in collection: ...

WINWINWIN: Tried that, it didnt work either

WINWINWIN: no idea wth is wrong with it

MoMaT: can you paste in a bit of your exact code?

MoMaT: it is really x in why that you need.

MoMaT: * "x in y"


WINWINWIN: This is where I use the contains metod

Counterbalance: ahh

Counterbalance: you did if (color_a in rotated_grid[i])

Counterbalance: you should lose the [i], I think

WINWINWIN: But it is a 2D array

WINWINWIN: rotated_grid[i] is that specific column

Counterbalance: hm ok.. weird then!

WINWINWIN: Completely confused, no idea wtf is going on

MoMaT: you only need "if color_a in rotated_grid[i]:" as a test.

MoMaT: you might be storing different types that looks the same when you print.

WINWINWIN: but I compare str(i) == str(elmt)

WINWINWIN: so types will be irrelevant

MoMaT: perhaps try "print(repr(color_a), repr(rotated_grid[i]))"


MoMaT: yes, for "representation".

darkhorse64: Alshock: not sure if recent changes are the cause of my bot's woes, although I can't help noticing than of Hold the line, it has a hard time finding a path when returning. Still, the game does not work as expected and I thought it was a good thing to report. Once it is fixed, I'll be sure the problem is between the chair and the keyboard

darkhorse64: *that on*

WINWINWIN: '3' ['.', '.', '.', '.', '.', '.', '.', '.', '3', '3', '2', '2']

WINWINWIN: this is the result of the repr print line

Alshock: Oh ok, I thought your bot suddenly got worse and by investigating it you found that bug

WINWINWIN: but still got false

Alshock: @WINWINWIN wait wait wait

Alshock: @WINWINWIN your colour is a number, but your list contains strings

WINWINWIN: No but I am comparing str(i) == str(elmt)

MoMaT: this works. there must be something else going on there.


Alshock: Nvm I said that looking back in the history of the chat, but your last post says otherwise

MoMaT: maybe try: if str(color_a) in rotated_grid[i]

WINWINWIN: will try that now

Alshock: or `if any(str(c) == str(color_a) for c in rotated_grid[i]):`

WINWINWIN: in did not work either

WINWINWIN: will try any now

Alshock: the problem is probably elsewhere

WINWINWIN: None of them are working, code is anyway only like 30 lines, will do a full rewrite

MoMaT: my guess would be that you change color_a after the first match. try printing it together with thr grid.

WINWINWIN: Am doing a rewrite probably some unknown error

MoMaT: there is no such thing :)

Alshock: The question is: how do you know for sure that you don't match?


Alshock: MoMaT of course there is: unknown to WINWINWIN at least, and for now unknown to us as well

WINWINWIN: ty for ur help MoMaT

MoMaT: I meant, there's a bug to be found, not an error in python...

Alshock: who knows? Maybe it's a bug of the python interpreter, with an odd of 0.0000001

MoMaT: yeah, but you answered yourself how likely it is...

Daher: python is a joke

Alshock: yes it's completely neglictable, but no one claimed that's what's happening :P

WINWINWIN: Yeah I like C# better, but Im just starting Smash the Code I began with python3

Alshock: @Daher and Java is a bad joke

Alshock: C++ is a drunk racist uncle

Alshock: and C# is an unsustainable I-know-all

Alshock: dunno how that last one translates to proper english



Alshock: if you need to choose between Rust and brainfuck, by all means pick brainfuck?


Alshock: why? Cause I just decided I'd trash all languages, yours won't be any exception ok?!?

struct: MSmits here by any chance?

Alshock: NullPointerException... OK Java you might be an exception


WINWINWIN: damn annoying, will try it out in ruby

Alshock: participants says no, but idk if it only counts people who posted or all online people

Alshock: @WINWINWIN do you mind pasting all the part of the code that leads ot that error?

AntiSquid: if brainfuck was on CG and it gave stupidly huge advantage compared to any other language, i would pick brainfuck

AntiSquid: so yeah do pick rust

Alshock: BTW Ruby is life, Ruby is love

AntiSquid: "ruby users are the children of sata" - a clasher who codes in python

Alshock: @AntiSquid No, if that was the case, you would use a transpiler just like that of Cotr

jacek: struct 3 2 is best opening move in Yavalath

jacek: now lets wait for Him

struct: ty

WINWINWIN: Alshock already pasted that code in there

WINWINWIN: now switching to C# and praying it works

Default avatar.png ArianPunk: hard puzzles doesn't make sense.

eulerscheZahl: so the puzzle is wrong? and not you?

Quidome: he euler, question on Bender 4

Astrobytes: Obviously a bugged puzzle.

Default avatar.png ArianPunk: true. not me.

Quidome: I solved the thing, i heard the testcases on submit are available

Quidome: What is the nature of the puzzl, are you allowed to solve it offline and hardcode the results?

Quidome: Or only use the available time on the server?

struct: euler why does this happen?

struct: java.lang.RuntimeException: Error reading Referee command. Buffer capacity: 32756 / 100000

struct: It only happens sometimes, on same seed

struct: Like 1 / 20 times

eulerscheZahl: i've seen that before

eulerscheZahl: might be that you create too much data for a single turn?

eulerscheZahl: but i don't see what could be that expensive

struct: I guess, but is strange that it shows a lopwer number

eulerscheZahl: there are 2 size limits per turn

eulerscheZahl: 100k on first turn

eulerscheZahl: 30k for later turns

eulerscheZahl: json size in the replay that is

eulerscheZahl: Quidome you are allowed to solve offline and hardcode

eulerscheZahl: personally my solution is found online

struct: I see, but seems strange it only happens sometimes

struct: on same map and play

struct: So game is =

eulerscheZahl: that's really weird

Quidome: eulerscheZahl ok, thnxs, that makes it a little bit easier :D

struct: Ill try to reproduce, ill also export, if it happens again ill send it to CG

Default avatar.png fangskills: in Coders Strike Back, why does my AI output X and Y distance and then it output X and Y as NaN

struct: fangskills what do you mean?

struct: can you put the code here?

eulerscheZahl: division by 0?

jacek: oh my

Default avatar.png fangskills: console.log(nextCheckpointX, nextCheckpointY, thurst) => response: 3974 7807 100. 2nd response: NaN NaN 100

Snef: gig you just changed league fangskills ?

Snef: did*

Default avatar.png fangskills: to Wood 2 League

Default avatar.png fangskills: Nevermind i figured it out lol i always keep forgetting my if statements

Counterbalance: struct do you get that on the CG servers? I got it locally, figured it was a windows I/O thing. Didn't happen on the first turn, and the mirrored version of the game had 115kb on that frame (and worked fine).

struct: yeah locally

WINWINWIN: Got my Smash the Code working in C#, is basic code enough to get out of Wood2?

struct: WINWINWIN to get to bronze all you need is to play a legal move

WINWINWIN: Trying that

cegprakash: will stream oware abapa minimax after having dinner

WINWINWIN: right now I make a sequence if they are in a column, else an empty column else random

WINWINWIN: Still only #2 in Wood2

WINWINWIN: @cegprakash 11:20 dinner?


cegprakash: it's supposed to be my breakfast

cegprakash: I just woke up


cegprakash: GA can work amazing on Smash the code

cegprakash: or even a recursion will do

cegprakash: without considering enemy

cegprakash: it's afterall 6^8 possibilities


Snef: isn't it 11^8 ?

Snef: with rotation

struct: 22^8

cegprakash: I didn't include rotation

Snef: right

cegprakash: :o

cegprakash: why 22?

Snef: 6+6+5+5

Snef: 6 when they are in "I" shape

Snef: 5 when they are in "_" shape

cegprakash: oh there are L, T shapes in higher leagues?

struct: No

Snef: no

struct: ceg

Snef: vertical horizontal

struct: Pieces can have 2 colors

ZarthaxX: 6^8 is pretty horrible already tho

eulerscheZahl: "GA can work amazing on Smash the code" I don't see how GA should be awesome here

struct: if it was 6^8 you preety much could simulate all

cegprakash: 6^8 runs in 1 ms in my computer

struct: Sure

struct: go sim smash the code

ZarthaxX: right

ZarthaxX: :P

struct: 1.5mill sims in 1ms

struct: Do you have nano computer?

ZarthaxX: he has the quantum

Snef: lel

eulerscheZahl: now this is suddenly on topic:

struct: I can get more than 1.5mill sure, but not on 1ms, or when board is almost full

ZarthaxX: wtf

eulerscheZahl: 100 tshirts in total

eulerscheZahl: in kotlin heroes soon. not announced yet. but last time it was 100 tshirts as well

Snef: can't we do this in D instead of Q# ?


eulerscheZahl: there is no D only contest

eulerscheZahl: kotlin heroes on may 29th

ZarthaxX: what with that cegprakash?

MostComplicatedUsername: I just realized I missed a whole contest

cegprakash: 0 secs

struct: lol

struct: dont troll

struct: please

ZarthaxX: ceg that's not a way of testing

ZarthaxX: and you know it

cegprakash: well u need a sim with O(1)

ZarthaxX: funny

eulerscheZahl: i have

eulerscheZahl: but higher constant

cegprakash: see..

cegprakash: it's possible

cegprakash: eulerscheZahl has done it

ZarthaxX: i will just stop talking

struct: I will pay you

struct: if you get 1.5mill sims

struct: in 1 ms

struct: with depth 8

eulerscheZahl: when we define everything as constant (taking the upper limit, e.g. board size), it is constant

cegprakash: go watch my stream for pallankuzhi I was getting easily million sims at depth 10

ZarthaxX: well said toad

cegprakash: I streamed today morning

struct: pallankuzhi is not STC

cegprakash: it's still 6^depth

struct: STC is not 6^depth

struct: its 22^depth

cegprakash: Oware Abapa

struct: and you need to floodfill

Snef: and one turn cost way more

struct: You need to drop pieces

cegprakash: I see 24^depth struct

cegprakash: how 22?

Snef: just think lel

struct: ^

eulerscheZahl: scroll up

eulerscheZahl: there's an explanation for 22

cegprakash: I don't get it.. we have 4 possible rotations * 6 positions to place

cegprakash: that's 24

Snef: look the rotation

Snef: for all of them you have 6 places ?

struct: Should I keep both?


struct: Currently is optional, viewer can choose

cegprakash: oh yes we can't keep it outisde board

cegprakash: gotcha

struct: viewer* player

eulerscheZahl: both sounds good

eulerscheZahl: you already coded both

struct: yeah

struct: Now im gonna add mouse over, to display coordinates

eulerscheZahl: then players will share screenshots and we will be confused that it looks completely different :D

struct: I have coordinates optional for hex board

struct: but I cant find a good color for it

struct: Due to black pieces

struct: I add black text before

Default avatar.png ArianPunk: whos done The Bridge puzzle?

MostComplicatedUsername: euler im above you in td :)

MostComplicatedUsername: Why does my code look different?

MostComplicatedUsername: It looks like keywords are in different colors

Astrobytes: They changed the IDE from ACE to Monaco MCU

MostComplicatedUsername: oh

Astrobytes: struct, that Yinsh board with the original design is sooo much better. Great job.

struct: Thanks, stil giving some finishing touches

jrke: hey i wanna know how to predict enemy pod in csb for attacking i am using x+vx and y+vy is this ok

MostComplicatedUsername: My rank fell 900 places in the few months that I wasn't on

MostComplicatedUsername: jrke that only predicts one turn ahead though

Default avatar.png ArianPunk: have u encountered buggy puzzles?

struct: jrke check csb magu s guide

Astrobytes: ^

eulerscheZahl: congrats MostComplicatedUsername

MostComplicatedUsername: :)

Astrobytes: now fix it MCU

MostComplicatedUsername: ?

MostComplicatedUsername: Fix what

Astrobytes: Your rank :)

struct: I have a hard decision, should I add the coordinates or not, they are optional on viewer, you can choose if you see them or not


struct: Also the color, which one?

eulerscheZahl: that looks like a mess

struct: Yeah :(

struct: I guess ill remove this optioin

struct: lol

Astrobytes: That font is shit

MostComplicatedUsername: I'm 6th place! That's good!

struct: Give me a font

struct: :D

Astrobytes: What do I look like, a designer? :P

eulerscheZahl: a ca

eulerscheZahl: cat

Astrobytes: A font with no outline will be better, for starters

Astrobytes: Thank you toad

struct: I need outline because of white pieces

struct: or I can change the color of text

Astrobytes: black font on white, white font on black

struct: hmm, a bit messy to code now

Astrobytes: Also, perhaps a sans-serif font would be more readable?

struct: Ill just remove

struct: :p

struct: or leave it, its optional

struct: you can just disable

struct: someone might like it

eulerscheZahl: options are always good

jacek: comic sans

Astrobytes: No one will like it in the current state :P

Snef: jacek => []

Astrobytes: YES Jacek has the answer

eulerscheZahl: that font might be what gets you towards the 30k limit

eulerscheZahl: lengthy name used many times i json

eulerscheZahl: in json

eulerscheZahl: for CGFunge i show one line after another not to exceed the per-frame limit

struct: Arial looks good

struct: might be euler

struct: but for me its strange that it happens only sometimes

struct: It is not happening for a while though

struct: so I guess im safe

AntiSquid: hey the new design looks good

struct: Thanks

AntiSquid: maybe even the right one (grey colored board) could work with different background color

Astrobytes: struct, also try Verdana

AntiSquid: use an Apple font

struct: Soon I have too remake yinsh

struct: and it will be become customizable viewer

Illedan: Why? Did you fail?

AntiSquid: Myriad, Lucida Grande and Helvetica Neue or even Avenir

AntiSquid: Jobs sat in on Palladino's calligraphy class at Portland's Reed College, which eventually inspired the elegance for which Apple computers are renowned, the tech icon recalled in his famous 2005 commencement address at Stanford University. "It was the first computer with beautiful typography,"

Astrobytes: Come on, Arial and Helvetica Neue are practically interchangeable

AntiSquid: that's why you're not a world renowned businessman Astrobytes

Astrobytes: Or dead.

AntiSquid: he died of cancer, are you saying the font gave him cancer?

Astrobytes: I'm no oncologist...

Astrobytes: Speaking of medical things, I have to go for a brain and spine MRI in a couple of weeks.

struct: why brain?

Astrobytes: It's attached to my spine ;)

Default avatar.png JBM: fix it

Snef: he has only 16 404 at search race

Snef: that's why

Astrobytes: lol shuddup snef :D

Snef: :D

AntiSquid: "only" ? hard to tell what's a good score

AntiSquid: is the game released?

struct: y

Snef: yes

Astrobytes: 10,641.950 is a good score

Snef: well i think that without a search sub 15000 is good

Snef: and with a search sub 11k is good

Astrobytes: Yeah I have no search yet

AntiSquid: since today or what

Snef: hmm 2 day i think

Astrobytes: Was either this morning or last night, not 100% sure

AntiSquid: no cover pic

AntiSquid: also many community multis have no cover

AntiSquid: should be made mandatory

Default avatar.png JBM: i agree

AntiSquid: even the avatarless guy agrees

Default avatar.png JBM: like I'm the only one

Astrobytes: They don't call JBM Jean-Baptiste the Mysterious for no reason you know

eulerscheZahl: stop doxxing

Default avatar.png JBM: that's a pseudo for hiding my real "java bad mystery" id

Astrobytes: We already established that it's J'aime. Bof. Merde eulerscheZahl

WINWINWIN: :) any point going for #1 in multi`s like search race? reCurse always dominates with his NN

Astrobytes: Of course. See how far you can get

AntiSquid: Jack Beanstalk the Mysterious

Snef: go for #2 WINWINWIN

Astrobytes: *Jacques

eulerscheZahl: search race is not a multi

Default avatar.png JBM: i'm really going to have to open a wiki for this topic

Astrobytes: :D

struct: Just to think I still have to write statement :/

Default avatar.png JBM: i've already forgotten what my new favorite was

Default avatar.png JBM: statements are overrated

struct: JBM can you do it?

AntiSquid: WINWINWIN yes ofc, bragging rights and you get to annoy the guy you dropped, bonus points if it's someone like recurz

eulerscheZahl: saw beanstalk only in context of AWS so far. not even sure if i should pronounce it bean-stalk or beans-talk

Astrobytes: It'll end up like the Ubuntu dev code names that euler posted the other day


Default avatar.png JBM: you'd pronounce both differently?

Astrobytes: The former euler

eulerscheZahl: so like secretly observing beams. creepy

Astrobytes: *beans

eulerscheZahl: right, type

eulerscheZahl: typo

eulerscheZahl: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Astrobytes: :D

AntiSquid: was reference to "Jack and the Beanstalk" btw, just in case AutomatonNN missed it

AutomatonNN: you still have a lose and no one does

eulerscheZahl: that's some serious misunterstanding of how CG works

eulerscheZahl: oh, now i got the name. thanks AntiSquid

Astrobytes: Just a bit.

Default avatar.png JBM: or just next-level trolling

Astrobytes: Notice, eulerscheZahl, that's it's not Jack and the Beans Talk. That would be a show about Jack and some Mexicans presumably.

Default avatar.png JBM: whereas Jack and the Bean stalk is a PI agency name?

Astrobytes: ofc, Jack Haricot, P.I

Default avatar.png JBM: Jacques

Default avatar.png JBM: please

Astrobytes: Yes, I realised my mistake and waited for the correction

Default avatar.png JBM: that's what i'm here for

Astrobytes: I'm immensely grateful

AntiSquid: he should reply with "So when i a CG server update to be expected?"

AntiSquid: is *

Default avatar.png Aesop: why does it have to be so damn hard to find a minimum value's index in a List in C#? I just can't figure it out.

Default avatar.png Aesop: Scourged the net for answers and it's all about writing your own damn methods, why isn't this standardized?

kovi: nice neumann

Neumann: thks


AntiSquid: Aesop

Illedan: Neumann \o/

Astrobytes: Oof great score Neumann, grats

Default avatar.png Aesop: Thanks AntiSquid, just figured it out

Neumann: Wait for when we'll be able to use full 50ms :P

Default avatar.png Aesop: List.IndexOf(List.Min()) works just fine

Illedan: ^^

eulerscheZahl: but that is slower than necessary Aesop

Default avatar.png Aesop: could you please elaborate?

eulerscheZahl: you iterate twice over the list

Default avatar.png Aesop: does Linq mitigate that slowdown?

eulerscheZahl: 1st to find the min and then again to find the index

Default avatar.png Aesop: right

Default avatar.png Aesop: gotcha

eulerscheZahl: i don't know what you are doing. maybe it doesn't even matter in your case

kovi: +30% time will give no more than a 1-2% with SA

Default avatar.png Aesop: it's a small list, but i'd rather keep it clean and nice from the beginning so as to avoid future mistakes of that kind

Default avatar.png Aesop: never used Linq though so I'll have a closer look at AntiSquid's link

kovi: (actually only +25% for me, im at 36ms)

eulerscheZahl: LINQ doesn't have the greatest performance. but it's awesome to express some thoughts in very little code

darkhorse64: kovi: Shall I infer that I should learn SA for SR

darkhorse64: ?

kovi: well, actually i dont use real SA either

eulerscheZahl: read the tags: you need beam search

AntiSquid: obey

Illedan: My buggy beam search gets 22k and 90 % :D

Astrobytes: You need Simulated 'Anhealing'

eulerscheZahl: Unhealing

eulerscheZahl: let me unheal you quickly :rifle:

eulerscheZahl: :pistol:

eulerscheZahl: really?

eulerscheZahl: :weapon:

eulerscheZahl: :gun:

AntiSquid: how do you decide what to use for speed racer? code them all or what

eulerscheZahl: :sword:

eulerscheZahl: come on...

Astrobytes: 'Simulated Anhealing' is Illedan's secret algo

Illedan: -3 vel AntiSquid ezpz

Illedan: fix it

Astrobytes: :knife: eulerscheZahl

AntiSquid: i mean how to decide which meta heuristic to use

eulerscheZahl: thanks Astrobytes. was looking for something more powerful

eulerscheZahl: :car: that will do the job

AntiSquid: :fist:

eulerscheZahl: ??

Astrobytes: In the right hands a knife can be very powerful indeed

AntiSquid: :truck:

eulerscheZahl: i can't remember failing that many emojis in a row

Illedan: :bomb:

Astrobytes: :bow_and_arrow:

AntiSquid: :toad:

AntiSquid: :frog:

Astrobytes: :squid:

Astrobytes: :motorcycle:

AntiSquid: not me

eulerscheZahl: :musical_score: hurting your ears

Astrobytes: :no_entry_sign: :motorcycle:

Astrobytes: Closest I can get AntiSquid

AntiSquid: :no_entry_sign: :squid:

AntiSquid: whichever lol

Astrobytes: Both covered nicely there

AntiSquid: or i need to chain all 3 ?

Neumann: Beam Search sucks on SR

eulerscheZahl: but it's tagged

Neumann: It's a trap

AntiSquid: but what about SEARCHO NO CHOKUDAI ?

eulerscheZahl: so from my point of view as an outstander not player beam search must be a save bet

Neumann: Didn't tried Chokudai but I'm guessing it'll suck for the same reasons

Astrobytes: But Chokudai is the Only Way. Other than the One True AI.

Illedan: How do you know beam search sucks Neumann? :P

Neumann: Have I missed some memes about Chodukai ?

Neumann: Because I tried it Illedan :D Among other things

Illedan: :D

eulerscheZahl: like people tried minimax and saw it fail on CSB? realizing that GA is the best way

Neumann: haha

AntiSquid: then why no GA here? why someone mentions SA?

Neumann: My guess is that every search that uses intermediate evaluations as a way to chose which branch to explore sucks

Neumann: I might be wrong

AntiSquid: or solo player smitsi

eulerscheZahl: MCTS

Astrobytes: ^

RoboStac: I can say that solo player smitsi isn't working very well for me

Neumann: Solo player Smitsi is called "MCTS"

Snef: Neumann i think that too

Illedan: haha robo

RoboStac: even if it still has 3 other pods that just can't collide and never move in it? :)

Astrobytes: Are you not planning some kind of NN-based solution RoboStac?

Neumann: Capped-depth MCTS worked "ok" for me

Illedan: Damn, you have tried a lot already :o

Astrobytes: How deep Neumann?

Neumann: MCTS, Hill Climbing, SA, Beam Search

Neumann: Pick one

RoboStac: I've not really planned anything Astrobytes, just converted my csb code with as little effort as possible

Neumann: Astrobytes: not that deep

Neumann: About half as deep as Snef

Astrobytes: Simplest way first Robo ;)

Snef: you got this score with half my depth Neumann ?? or just for your mcts try ?

Astrobytes: What's your depth Snef?

Neumann: Both

Snef: wut

Snef: around 20 Astrobytes

Astrobytes: k

Alshock: What's the advantage of a capped depth mcts over a mcts with an eval?

Snef: capped depth mcts do have eval no ?

Neumann: Yup

Astrobytes: yes, EPT

Alshock: which depth is then capped only by its rollouts in the branch

AntiSquid: leaderboard is sorted in wrong order, i have most points

Neumann: lol

Snef: congratz AntiSquid

Astrobytes: I never thanked you Neumann for introducing me to that concept during Oware

Neumann: It's not mine

Astrobytes: No but you mentioned it

Neumann: What does EPT stands for ?

Astrobytes: And I didn't know about it previoously

Astrobytes: EArly playout termination

Neumann: Ok

jacek: but you still need eval for it :c

Astrobytes: Yes.

Neumann: Astrobytes = Astroshytes ?

jacek: Astro8bits

Astrobytes: Yes Neumann, I should probably change it on Discord

Neumann: Ok, I can stop to wonder that everytime now

Astrobytes: :D

MostComplicatedUsername: I feel like Clash of Code doesn't test your knowledge of programming concepts, it tests your knowledge of obscure libraries

eulerscheZahl: here's another one for you Neumann: i'm an issue = BenjaminUrquhart

Neumann: I knew that one

Astrobytes: Doesn't he have another alias too?

Astrobytes: (changed my discord name to astrobytes btw)

Astrobytes: creepersbane or something

YurkovAS: Neumann do you have fails in SR with ttl 45-49ms? don't understand why 2 distinc sim work only with ttl 30-40ms.

eulerscheZahl: congrats, now you confused those who are mostly active on discord

Neumann: YurkovAS: Yes, happends to everyone trying to use more than 35-38ms

Neumann: happens *

Astrobytes: Meh. I always assumed having the kitten version of my CG avatar was enough anyway

eulerscheZahl: i even get timeouts with 50ms for a 100ms multiplayer (connect4)

eulerscheZahl: used to work with 90ms

YurkovAS: Neumann thanks

Astrobytes: C# issue eulerscheZahl or general?

eulerscheZahl: dunno

eulerscheZahl: i almost exclusively have c# bots

Astrobytes: true

struct: I was having this issue to withc++

Astrobytes: On SR or others too?

struct: sr

Astrobytes: Yeah that's happening for all on SR using > x time limit. euler's one is the odd one here

struct: oh god

struct: white color was a mistake


Astrobytes: hehehe

struct: oh

struct: no

struct: I uploaded with yavalath stament

struct: ahahah

eulerscheZahl: is it a win or a draw?

eulerscheZahl: :D

struct: same on viewer is hard to tell

struct: I guess ill leave player colors

struct: and change it in viewer instead of on config

Astrobytes: you're up late eulerscheZahl

MSmits: I'm getting tired alreadt

MSmits: is the world upside down?

Astrobytes: Must be :) How are you MSmits

Illedan: MSmits, not on SR yet?

struct: Hello MSmits

struct: Ive somethig to ask, ill draw it

MSmits: hi

MSmits: not on SR no

MSmits: someone's gotta try and kick karlis o off nr 1 uttt :)

MSmits: draw it struct

Astrobytes: UTTT is almost a way of life for you now eh :)

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: but i am mostly doing it because i can do it on the side, while doing some work. Not much coding

Astrobytes: Any of your students playing it?

MSmits: Dont think so, but I have a student that wants to do his last year project on search algorithms. He will pick a CG game i think

MSmits: possibly uttt, though it's probably not the best pick

Astrobytes: The one who participated in the contest?

MSmits: its better to write a report on a game that makes more sense when you look at a board

MSmits: yes

MSmits: that one

Astrobytes: Very true, and awesome. That's really cool

MSmits: yeah

Astrobytes: Seemed a smart kid

MSmits: yeah he is quite good. He did the labyrinth puzzle without any help

MSmits: we dont teach at that level really, noone is supposed to be able to solve the labyrinth

ZarthaxX: i couldnt sovlve it even

ZarthaxX: what a beast

Astrobytes: Nice. He's got the interest, that will take him far.

MSmits: I had a lot of problems with it too ZarthaxX

MSmits: he did it in python too, i think

Astrobytes: Hey Zarthachloride

MSmits: you're going through chemical formulas now?

Astrobytes: Just whatever comes to mind

MSmits: I see

ZarthaxX: i saw it once and left it

ZarthaxX: then came another day and was easy

jacek: why dont he do paper soccer then

ZarthaxX: the fuck Astrobytes LOL

jacek: :s

MSmits: you should pose this question more generally jacek

jacek: hm?

MSmits: why don't people do paper soccer?

jacek: exactly!

MSmits: honestly, I dont know, it seems fine

Astrobytes: Multi-overload

MSmits: its about as interesting as twixt, it's on my list, but below a few others, not so many

MSmits: i want to do breakthrough first

MSmits: yinsh if it comes out probably

struct: I dont know how I should draw this

struct: Its a MCTS thingy

MSmits: oh

MSmits: maybe i understand it from your words

jacek: breakthrough eh? mcts again eh

Astrobytes: what about that online graph too lthat euler posted

MSmits: some form probably yes jacek

Astrobytes: *tool

struct: Do you have the link Astrobytes?

Astrobytes: gimme a sec, I might

struct: In my head this makes sence and it doesnt

MostComplicatedUsername: lol sence

struct: I just wanna know if this idea is flawed

MSmits: is it a superposition of sense and nonsense struct?

struct: Sorry english is not my mother language

MSmits: isn't mine either

MostComplicatedUsername: Me neither

struct: Mas se quiseres falo português e não me vês a errar

jacek: omelette du fromage

ZarthaxX: ban

Default avatar.png JBM: yeah right

Astrobytes: struct

struct: I got no idea what that is MSmits :p

MSmits: what is>

MSmits: you're making less sense than usual struct

Astrobytes: Impossible! :P

ZarthaxX: he is high

Astrobytes: On a mountain? :P

MSmits: of meth

MostComplicatedUsername: ...

Astrobytes: lol, I'm rewatching Breaking Bad so I like that reply

MostComplicatedUsername: Children these days...

Astrobytes: Maybe if you smoke some DMT struct, it will become clear

MSmits: watched breaking bad two times. All of it

struct: You started it

struct: Dont come with the child play

Astrobytes: Great isn't it MSmits

MSmits: best series ever

Astrobytes: I concur

MSmits: I am also watching better call saul. It can't be as good as breaking bad, but it's an unfair comparison. I like it too

Astrobytes: I was thinking about watching that when I finish this, I've not seen it but it's got a good reputation

MSmits: it takes a while to get into it, but then again so did breaking bad

Astrobytes: I can live with that

MSmits: I remember watching the first 2 episodes or so, right around the bath thing and then quit for months

Default avatar.png JBM: breaking bad took me no time to get into

MSmits: when i got back i watched all of them in like a week or two

Default avatar.png JBM: that 1st episode was outstanding

Astrobytes: Did you ever get around to watching Picard MSmits?

Astrobytes: Yes I was hooked instantly too JBM

MSmits: yes, but you;ve got to realize the genre is very far from what i normally watch. But breaking bad is just so good, even if it's not your genre you have to see it

MSmits: Astrobytes i havent seen it no, because of the streaming service

Astrobytes: Oh just torrent it already :P

Astrobytes: (I never said that)

Default avatar.png JBM: why not

MSmits: i'm patient

MSmits: i will see it for sure

MSmits: I watched all star trek ever made

MSmits: most of it multiple times

Astrobytes: Can't be seen to be advocating smoking DMT and downloading torrents in the same chat stream JBM

MSmits: wait except the original series btw

Astrobytes: You will love Picard MSmits

MSmits: no doubt

Astrobytes: JBM:

Default avatar.png JBM: wtf

Astrobytes: ikr

Default avatar.png JBM: you were left, at least?

Astrobytes: Left? As in position or alive?

jacek: so did struct said what he wanted to say?

Default avatar.png JBM: position

Astrobytes: Right

Default avatar.png JBM: just about nothing in this transcript makes sense

struct: What do you mean jacek?

Astrobytes: Yes, that's why I sent it to you JBM ;)

MSmits: struct PM-ed me jacek

MSmits: it's fine, no worries

Default avatar.png JBM: could you gather the entire I/O? :/

struct: Yes, very secret algorithm

MSmits: just some mcts questions

struct: This will make me rank 1

MSmits: sorry, ruined the mystery :P

Default avatar.png JBM: i can't deal with it now, but I kind of have to investigate that level of bugginess

struct: Anyone want to write statement, last chance

struct: I have good deal

Astrobytes: Can I just give you the seed JBM?

Default avatar.png JBM: well

Default avatar.png JBM: i'd need seed + bot algs

MSmits: struct, people can suggest edits as well cant they?

Default avatar.png JBM: oh wait

struct: suggest edits?

Default avatar.png JBM: can i run both your arena bots?

struct: of the statement?

Astrobytes: Yes

Default avatar.png JBM: let's try

MSmits: yeah

Astrobytes: seed=-3777575510120129500

struct: Yeah

struct: Should I take design one of the board or design2 for the statement?

Astrobytes: And both bots are deterministic it seems

MSmits: didnt see the pictures struct


struct: Both are available, so player can choose

Astrobytes: Much better font struct

MSmits: I like the 2nd one. The lines confuse me.

MSmits: (the lines on the first one)

struct: Line takes time to get used to it

Astrobytes: I prefer the lines, I see it as a graph

struct: But for the statement

MSmits: mmh ok

struct: might be easier to see on 2nd

Astrobytes: *see it more obviously as a graph

Default avatar.png JBM: hey at least the viewer is correct

Default avatar.png JBM: yeah i reproduced

Astrobytes: Cool

struct: viewer is correct but referee isnt?

Default avatar.png JBM: viewer is output by ref so...

Default avatar.png JBM: not sure what ref gave the gamemanager as a result

Astrobytes: The wrong info? (just guessing there)

Default avatar.png JBM: was it in your lastbattles?

Default avatar.png JBM: oh wait i have it too

Default avatar.png JBM: it's the correct viewer + ranking

Default avatar.png JBM: just the game text is wrong it seems

Default avatar.png JBM: well lol

Default avatar.png JBM: gameManager.addToGameSummary(GameManager.formatErrorMessage("Troll destroys " + gameManager.getPlayer(winner).getNicknameToken()));

Default avatar.png JBM: yeah tjhat's kind of obviously wrong

Default avatar.png JBM: thanks for spotting!

Astrobytes: hahahaha

Astrobytes: No worries

Default avatar.png JBM: you'll get nice git commit message credits

Astrobytes: Yay, fame, at last.

Default avatar.png JBM: uploading...

Daher: python is for the dumb

Zenoscave: What Multi's y'all doing?

struct: everyone doing SR Zenoscave

Zenoscave: SR?


Astrobytes: Search RAce optim

Zenoscave: Nice an optim that isn't from euler ;)

Zenoscave: gz Illedan

Astrobytes: And testing JBMs Troll vs Castles. Well, I am.

Astrobytes: Also, pewpewpew

Default avatar.png JBM: pew

Zenoscave: pewpew

struct: also you are not allowed to use Sim on SR

struct: you must use true ai

Zenoscave: eh...

Zenoscave: how is that enforced

Default avatar.png JBM: with Honor

Illedan: thx, it is not :P

Zenoscave: Good to hear! I will try it

Default avatar.png JBM: (I tried that with TvC, it kind of didn't work long)

Astrobytes: What, the One True AI?

Astrobytes: Or honour?

Zenoscave: honour

Default avatar.png JBM: in context, in was honneur

Zenoscave: I'll try no sim AI

Zenoscave: does RL count as sim?

Default avatar.png JBM: but no can do, in 5 minutes we had celebrity-account AIs throwing negative amounts of stones

Astrobytes: "celebrity-account AIs " :D

Default avatar.png JBM: egaetan and [CG]Nick

Zenoscave: I'm losing track of these acronyms

Zenoscave: tvc is what now?

Default avatar.png JBM: Astrobytes: your bug is fixed in "production"

Default avatar.png JBM: Zenoscave

Astrobytes: Nice

struct: At least my ported games dont have acronyms

Default avatar.png JBM: i didn't make that one

Default avatar.png JBM: i'll probably change the title at the last minute just to troll everyone

struct: Do I need to cleanup Yinsh code?

struct: answer is no rigt?

Default avatar.png JBM: depends if you intend to publish it

Default avatar.png JBM: we'll make fun of the referee no matter what

struct: Noone will read :D

Default avatar.png JBM: the code can either distract us or make us find more fun stuff to poke at

Default avatar.png JBM: try us

Astrobytes: We wil lread it at some point

Astrobytes: *will read

Astrobytes: fking codeine

struct: Should be over 2k liens of mess

struct: Maybe not

struct: I think its less than 1k?

struct: wtf

Astrobytes: It's all in one file?

struct: Good idea

Astrobytes: What? 1 file or splitting it up?

struct: 1 file

struct: around 1.2k lines

struct: How did I take this long

Astrobytes: Because of stuff. And also things.

MSmits: gonna get some sleep and stuff

MSmits: gn

struct: gn

Astrobytes: gn

struct: I must finish today

struct: then ill be gonne for another 3 months

Astrobytes: Why

struct: Im joking i wont run this time

Astrobytes: Yeah yeah, we'll see :P

struct: Longest user name is here?

struct: I need him to teach me english

struct: so i can write the statement

Astrobytes: Most complicated username?

struct: that

Astrobytes: MCU is a she iirc

Zenoscave: Astrobytes PEBCAC?

Zenoscave: not PEBCAK?

Astrobytes: Both valid, this one is between Computer and Chair/Chair and Computer

Zenoscave: The keyboard is between those!!! You need a new keyboard huh

Zenoscave: ;)

Default avatar.png JBM: what's pebkak in that contexT?

struct: Is this US vs UK thing?

Zenoscave: problem exists between keyboard and keyboard

Astrobytes: Nah. The keyboard is only the abstraction of the real problem

Default avatar.png JBM: Zenoscave: welcome to TvC!

Zenoscave: Thanks!

Default avatar.png JBM: what's your secret?

Zenoscave: It's pretty simple

Zenoscave: not gonna share

Zenoscave: Just watch a few replays. it's obvious

Default avatar.png JBM: you tell me your secret, i give you the boss's alg

Zenoscave: There's a boss?

struct: JBM whats your secret to have people play your game without writing a statement?

Astrobytes: Hand drawn troll

Alshock: struct wonderful graphics

Zenoscave: Promotion

Zenoscave: and a hand drawn troll

struct: thanks

struct: im writing statement Alshock

struct: dont read that one, that one is from yavalath

struct: :p

Zenoscave: JBM who is the boss?

Default avatar.png JBM: struct: how dare you

Default avatar.png JBM: i've got a statement

Alshock: who read statements anyway?

Zenoscave: I just shoot one more rock than the opp did last time.

Default avatar.png JBM: it's actually rather long

Default avatar.png JBM: oh, not bad

Zenoscave: lol

Default avatar.png JBM: the current boss sends random(0,stones)

Default avatar.png JBM: the former boss just sent 1

Zenoscave: ...

struct: true ai

Alshock: it wasn't when we started playing your game so his point is valid

Alshock: when you told us about that game the statement was 3 lines long

pb4: including one line complaining that nobody would read it anyway

Zenoscave: That's great

struct: statements overrated

Zenoscave: I think that line should be brought back

struct: just read the referee

Alshock: @pb4 I didn't read up to there :P

Default avatar.png JBM: don't read the referee

Default avatar.png JBM: mine's such a mess

struct: let me se

Default avatar.png JBM: i don't know how the java people ever ship anything

Alshock: shipping?

struct: you even have comments

AntiSquid: "one line complaining that nobody would read it anyway" the alternative is to write something cheeky at the end like "this is best game ever, glad you like it" and you will know when people read the statement because they will react to that line

struct: on your code

struct: pro

struct: How am I supposed to write all this in the statement?


struct: copy paste?

AntiSquid: the page you linked is more wordy than it needs to be

Default avatar.png JBM: are you licensed to?

AntiSquid: you could definitely trim quite a bit of text

struct: no JBM

AntiSquid: remove pictures and just add the link at the end as "more detailed explanations"

struct: Its the first link of my statement

struct: lol

struct: first or second line of the statment

struct: is this

AntiSquid: didn't check your game recently

AntiSquid: just saw the fancy new pic

struct: I shouldnt make my default AI random should I?

struct: that is bad for players that want to test right?

Zenoscave: Never make the default random

Alshock: that depends, is it functional?

Zenoscave: never!

struct: ah its not

struct: int r = new Random(412).nextInt(actionCount)

Alshock: ideally, give your random a fixed seed

Alshock: then it's ok

Alshock: Idk if that's what the 412 does, but if so I'm affraid you have only one number

struct: yeah its bad

struct: but actionCount changes depending on turn

Alshock: you should make randomgenerator only once in your programme

Alshock: and then call it

struct: you are right

AntiSquid: i am 16/32 in the troll game, with D lang, maybe if i add 5 lines i get #1

AntiSquid: using default code btw

struct: I have been training NN for that game for 5 days

struct: but still no t good

AntiSquid: try different model

pb4: struct ?

struct: Sorry I missed /s

struct: Today is my troll day

pb4: Thought so

pb4: though

Zenoscave: pb4 yw


pb4: could apply

Zenoscave: bumped you to 1st in TvC

pb4: Nice Zenoscave :)

pb4: Thanks !

AntiSquid: seriously, with 4 inputs each turn why not try to train a perceptron? :D

AntiSquid: ok 5 inputs, 1 output

pb4: You'll notice I didn't add the /s ;)

Astrobytes: I'm attempting an alphabeta type thing in TvC but I fucked it up because it's late and codeine

Zenoscave: ... perceptrons were used ever?

AntiSquid: you should get something that performs statistically well

Alshock: AntiSquid what's the fifth output?

Alshock: input*

AntiSquid: simple game, doesn't need much more does it Zenoscave?

Alshock: I see aStone/aDist/bStones/bDist

AntiSquid: roadlength

Zenoscave: Fair

Alshock: it's aDist+bDist

Astrobytes: Since I'm now wasted mentally and in TvC I shall retire to the sofa

Astrobytes: gn/bn to you all

AntiSquid: didn't look properly at the while loop

AntiSquid: yes 4

AntiSquid: roadlength, trolldist, stones, opstones

AntiSquid: bye Astrobytes

Alshock: would a NN fair better with a fixed roadlength than with the opponentDist ?

Alshock: fare*

Alshock: I must admit my total lack of knowledge in that area

struct: I have no idea too, never tried NN


AntiSquid: trying to find an article

Illedan: TvC?

Zenoscave: the troll game

AntiSquid: troll vs castle

Default avatar.png fangskills: anybody know how to do the temperatures puzzel

Default avatar.png fangskills: puzzle *

struct: use abs()

struct: absolute value

struct: |-3| == 3

struct: you need to find the closest value to 0

Default avatar.png JBM: that solved it

Default avatar.png fangskills: i only need the "Only Negative" test case to be completed

struct: What are you outputing on that test?

Default avatar.png fangskills: Nothing

struct: Share the code

Default avatar.png fangskills: it suppose to console log it but idk why it doesn't do it

struct: Ill try to see whats wrong

Default avatar.png fangskills: want all of the code?

struct: yeah

struct: just paste it here

Default avatar.png fangskills:

struct: fangskills you want the solution

struct: or want me to tell you whats wrong?

Default avatar.png fangskills: tell me whats wrong

struct: So the problem is

struct: that if positive temps is empty

Default avatar.png fangskills: and give me the solution by giving me the link to the code

struct: you will never have a if for that

Default avatar.png fangskills: thanks for that hint!

Default avatar.png fangskills: i been using if statements all the time lol


Alshock: if is love, if is life

struct: But check other players solutions

struct: There are better ways to solve this problem

Alshock: js just returns undefined when you access an out-of-range element I guess?

struct: yeah Alshock

struct: at least i think

struct: Javascript is a mess


Alshock: undefined < x => false, so we can slightly rework that

Alshock: I just realized pasting a working solution in cg chat might not be the most clever move ever

Default avatar.png JBM: BURN

Default avatar.png JBM: wasn't your ban enough?

Alshock: hey, I realized before actually doing it :P

Alshock: don't throw stones at me or I'll turn your castle upside down

Default avatar.png JBM: heh

Illedan: Do you guys want debug lines for SR? Like print some special message and I draw red lines on the canvas for whatever you want to debug?

Alshock: hummmm, that'd be useful, but only to draw dicks on the screen IMHO

Illedan: You can still do that with skidmarks..

Alshock: why do you think so many people play your game?

Illedan: DaNinja around?

Illedan: It's not many players yet

Alshock: We Are Billions!

struct: Are there sites that make writing html easier?

Alshock: Sorry I let you ask real questions to real player and I stop that noise xD

struct: I guess that can save me a bit of time on statement

Illedan: Any of top 3 on SR around?

Neumann: Sure

Neumann: Is the CP "collision" calculated like regular collisions ? Or once per turn only ? My code think he got the CPs but doesn't, sometimes ..

Illedan: It is multiple times per turn

Illedan: I rewrote the collision part because of DaNinja's bug: Not live yet, but in this Arena for testing:

Neumann: What was his bug ?


Illedan: Frame 35

Illedan: I didn't move the car when checking for multiple collisions

Default avatar.png fangskills: On the "Only Negative Numbers" why does it send multiple numbers but expect one negative number

Alshock: errrr, can you link the puzzle page? ^^

Default avatar.png fangskills: For my question?

Illedan: Neumann, I use the same collision check as in Bit Runner

Alshock: oh ok you're on temperatures

Default avatar.png fangskills: yeah

struct: you mean on temperatures fangskills?

Default avatar.png fangskills: yes

struct: If there are multiple negative

Alshock: well you need to output the temperature closest to 0, there's only one

struct: only*

struct: you must output the one closest to 0

struct: yeah

Default avatar.png fangskills: oh

Default avatar.png fangskills: okay i got it then lol i was confused for a sec


Neumann: Yeah I've got the same

Illedan: Do you truncate positions or round them?

Neumann: round

Illedan: They are truncated

Neumann: /flip

struct: :D

Neumann: Weren't they rounded in CSB/BR ?

Alshock: ah ah ah


struct: yes on CSB at least

Illedan: CSB = rounder

Alshock: position is rounded and speed is truncated

Illedan: BR = truncated

Alshock: iirc

Illedan: Else the game wasn't 100% equal

Zaphus: Does it bug anyone else that in many of the Bot (and contest) competitions, the timeline bar is the same yellow as player 1, so you can't easily see where the actions took place at the end of the playthrough?

Illedan: truncation helped for rounding errors

struct: Illedan you dont touch angle do you?

Illedan: Angle is rounded

struct: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Illedan: but that is no problem with EXPERT movement

Alshock: @Illedan on SR your expert output takes a floating point?

struct: it is because I do one thing

Illedan: I'm not going to have an internal double angle that you don't know about :P

struct: I take the angle to next checkpoint

struct: at start

Illedan: You can't select the angle at start

Illedan: Your angle are selected

Neumann: Ah much better

Alshock: sorry the question is a little lazy, but that one is on my todo list for now :P

Illedan: You are forced to be towards the next CP with a rounded angle at start

struct: at turn 0 the angle is rounded right?

Illedan: Nice Neumann :)

Illedan: ye

Illedan: before you get it

Illedan: Did it help on submit Neumann?

Neumann: Idk, I'm out of them

Illedan: lol

Neumann: ^^

Alshock: Correct me if I'm wrong, but having an internal double angle would be perfectly ok since position and speed are rounded. No?

Illedan: I want players to 100 % know what their state is.

Illedan: It is double internal, but rounded.

Alshock: yeah but then they need to round their own angle while if it wasn't rounded they could not get a different position or speed from yours, but wouldn't have to round their angle

Alshock: that's very weird if you target points to have to round the angle actually

Illedan: Updated the bugfix now and added a cover photo from Neumann driving :D

Neumann: :sunglasses:

Illedan: Can you try to run some tests Neumann, just to see if something looks off? should be good, but nice to have 1 extra little test :)

Neumann: Sure. I just need to F5 the IDE ?

Illedan: yeah

Neumann: Seems fine

Illedan: Thx :)

Neumann: What was the submit limit already ?

Neumann: 25/5h or so ?

Snef: i heard 25

Snef: not sure about 5h

Illedan: I'm off gn.

struct: gn

Illedan: Ping me on Discord if anything crashes and I'll wake to fix xD

Default avatar.png JBM: Now that's service!

struct: Time to hunt bugs

Snef: SUB 11K finally

struct: grats

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: im noticing a lot of languages look very similar to java

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: makes me think i should focus on java which would make it easy to branch out later on

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: i tried Rust, i got creamed

Snef: you should try D, the best language to create real AI

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: all the AI stuff i know is in python atm

struct: C++ master race

Snef: python isn't the best to advanced stuff

Snef: except for machine learning

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: yeah i know ML, i dont know other areas outside that so much

Snef: try to train a model for Search Race puzzle

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: well main goal now is just exposure to other languages, i might look into getting back into stats eventually

struct: c++, C#, java

struct: rist

struct: rust*

Snef: then do search race in c++

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: i was trying to pick a language that will bring the most utility, a lot of langs look super close to Java and they use java at my company

struct: I feel like c++ is a must

struct: So pick java

Snef: the thing is that you won't learn things you'd you at work or not much

Snef: still good to learn the basics if you're at this stage

Snef: you'd use*

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: yeah im just now tending towards it after seeing how it resembles so many other langs. I tried rust and i got crushed by the syntax quickly, managed 2 puzzles but i think it assumes a lot more low level knowledge

Snef: to start i'd also recommend c++

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: seems like C background would help undersatnd rust

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: well, im already pretty fluent in python

Snef: i'd say C is close to c++ which are close to c# java..

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: really i was looking for a strong complement to python. C was a contender. Also rust due to the FFI. Java as well.

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: with C++ im worried its a bit too specialized these days

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: for like high performance environments

Snef: sure

Snef: i use c++ here i don't use it anywhere else

struct: Also the c++ code i write here i would not write anywhere else

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: how long have you been using it here

Snef: 2 - 2.5 years

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: that's enough time to be ready for an interview i imagine

Snef: not really

Snef: because as i said, the things you learn here aren't the ones required for work

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: well, not if you only do one puzzle a year. lol

Snef: it's not about number of puzzle

Snef: it's about what you're doing

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: i was thinking more about fluency with the language more than specific libraries, even third party

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: if youre fluent in the language and you have some subject matter expertise, in machine learning for instance, then its easy to go from there

Snef: hmm if you know a bit C then you're good for c++

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: but surely after 2.5 years you're pretty fluent in the language

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: maybe you havent solved all the various problem types, but you should be able to read most code in that language after that time period i'd guess

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: whats your main language since you only do C++ here?

Snef: well i haven't really a main langage

Snef: i have done much java at first

Snef: and c

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: best language i guess

Snef: then mostly javascript for work and c++ here

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: ah interesting..

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: i spend like 8-10 hours per day doing python for the past yr

struct: thats a lot of time

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: not a developer but my team lets me code since ive built some good stuff

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: yes, after all that time though i have an itch for another language. happy to find this place.

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: python is too quick to write, i dont see myself using any other language except to implement some slow process in that language for instance, would be a nice way to get started

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: like i said was trying Rust, but that syntax kicked my butt quickly

struct: Site has plenty of stuff, many puzzles, but the best part for me is mutliplayers

struct: where you can code your own ai

struct: for plenty of games

Snef: yea

Default avatar.png BigBadStopwatch_4678: that sounds pretty fun

Snef: and i guess you use more of a language in multi than in puzzle

struct: you can even create your own multiplayer games

struct: Also the site hosts contests

struct: usually 12(?) days long

struct: Snef what do you use on SR?

Snef: I think it look like a ga but as i've done it myself without really looking at paper... it's kinda heavily customised

struct: I never tried GA

struct: I guess I can try it here

Snef: i finished to setup my local arena today so i'll try to play with it for the next days

struct: Should be easy to mix it with avx

Snef: i never did avx

Snef: seems hard

struct: It seems harder than it is

struct: After I finish the statement Ill write avx sim for SR

struct: if it works ill send it to you so you can take a look if you want

struct: Just to get an idea

Snef: why not

struct: Do you use doubles or floats on your sim?

Snef: floats

Snef: and int

struct: works fine?

Snef: what do you mean by that

struct: referee uses doubles

struct: Its not the same precision

Snef: i'm not sure how much it affect my sim

struct: I have avx already built for floats

struct: not for doubles

Snef: as you round every turn i guess there isn't much time to get big offset between double and float

struct: if number is 1.4999999-1.50000000

struct: they are truncated right?

struct: not rounded

Snef: i'm not sure but i think so

struct: yeah, its truncated, for speed and velocity i checked refered

struct: referee

Snef: but they round x and y

struct: on csb

Snef: and trunc vx and vy

struct: on sr illedan trunc pos and vel


Snef: oh

Snef: is truncate from java doing same thing on negative value

Snef: as a (int) cast in c++

struct: should be

struct: yeah its the same

struct: intel intrisics page is broken again for me :/

Snef: 10863 yay

struct: What depth?

Snef: i'm trying differents depth i'm at 18 here

struct: damn

struct: seems a lot

Snef: still not sure which is the best

Snef: Neum ann said he has half of my initial so around 10-12 i guess

struct: I want to try depth 8 and try all possible moves

Snef: why bruteforce ?

struct: I mean out of a move of 6

struct: 6^8

struct: not very high number

struct: should be plausible

Snef: better have ga with unlimited sets of moves

Snef: 7400^18 lel

Snef: 7437^18 *

struct: lol

Snef: you can just adapt the probability of each mvoe being selected

Snef: but still if one turn you wanna do angle 6 with thrust 176 it can be good

struct: is anyone hardcoding yet?=

Snef: i don't think so

Snef: i guess soon there will be more and more sub 11k and some of them should be hardcoded

Snef: i could also like run my ga locally for 100*time and use those moves but it's not really fun :p

struct: hardcode is true ai

Snef: 50 validator => 50 if => true ai

struct: Writing the statement is so boring

Snef: it should be quick tho no ?

struct: kinda, but I usually add images

struct: explaining


Snef: yea i see

struct: how should I phrase this

struct: you have the option to disable getting legal actions

Snef: what is the benefit of disabling it ?

Snef: more time per turn ?

struct: yeah

struct: Sometimes you wouild get 200+ actions

struct: in 1 turn

Snef: oh

Snef: i see

Snef: what about something like that:

Snef: You are free to choose whether you want to receive the legal moves or not by sending yes or no....

struct: thanks, sounds good ;)

Snef: i'm not sure if you have to keep "the" beofre legal mvoes tho

Snef: before * moves *

struct: On the first turn you are free to choose whether you want to receive legal moves or not, to do this you simply have to output "no".

struct: He can output anything else, doesnt need to be yes

struct: so i guess ill leave it like this :pç

Snef: sure

Snef: and in stub you print "yes" right ?

struct: yeah

Snef: seems good then

struct: "Once a ring moves it will leave a marker of his color behind."

struct: his doesnt sound right :/

Snef: Once a ring as moved, his previous position will be colored ?

Snef: has*

struct: Thanks Snef

struct: I cant sleep until I finish this

Snef: its instead of his also

struct: wall of text

Snef: time to sleep

Snef: cya struct

struct: gn