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Default avatar.png Exa65536: (from the "last battles" page, I mean)

Edrevan: not in the last battles page

Default avatar.png Exa65536: is there some other way to get cerr output for the last ply of a game which was played in the league? (as in, not in the IDE)

Edrevan: but if your code truly is deterministic but you dont get the same result, it can be only 2 things : either the opponent's code isn't deterministic, or you barely stay within the time limit

Edrevan: do you measure how long your code takes each turn ?

Default avatar.png Exa65536: Yeah, and I pipe that to cerr

Edrevan: are you close to the 50ms mark ?

EvModder: hmm i've noticed something

EvModder: whenever there is a bug in my enemy tracking so that it fails entirely and doesn't track enemies, my ranking for that submit is way higher

eulerscheZahl: oh dear, this is going to be tough

cegprakash: MattSOrme what happened

Icebox: moin :wave:

eulerscheZahl: moin

cegprakash: eulerscheZahl how far do u plan to cause accidents

eulerscheZahl: half of my bot is a big accident

cegprakash: do u plan it like 20 turns ahead?

Default avatar.png Exa65536: This is for Ultimate Tic-tac-toe, which has a 100 ms/move limit. And I'm generally well under it, but I currently can't abort mid-iteration and iteration costs are erratic - so I'm just aborting after the first iteration that lasts at least 17 ms. If I could see the cerr output of the last ply of a game where I timed out, I could see how long the last successful iteration lasted and adjust the threshold so it'd have aborted after that

cegprakash: that would be crazy

eulerscheZahl: hell no

eulerscheZahl: impossible to plan that. opponent can switch or move everywhere in that time

Icebox: ceg didn't you say you're using depth 20?

cegprakash: I still do

cegprakash: when I have 20 pellets

Icebox: :thinking:

cegprakash: but I assume enemy doesn't move unless he wants to kill me

cegprakash: I don't have an enemy dummy

cegprakash: which I'll add later tonight

eulerscheZahl: the squirrel just came again to ask for a peanut :)

Icebox: god damn disney princesses

cegprakash: * 2 pacs*

thethiny: When my friends ask me how I went from Bronze to Silver I tell them I changed my IDE and submitted

thethiny: TechnicallyTheTruth

cegprakash: plz don't write that in ur post mortem thethiny

cegprakash: :D

thethiny: :D

thethiny: sometimes you guys are boring :D

eulerscheZahl: when my friends ask me how I ... wait, I have no friends playing CG :(

cegprakash: I can be ur friend

Durkin: hell man, forget a friend playing, I'd be happy if a single person from my college did this

thethiny: @eulerscheZahl do we have to be in Legend tier to be your friends?

thethiny: @Durkin well I sent the link to 5 of my friends and 2 only played, the 3rd only signed up.

eulerscheZahl: i mean those who know me in person don't play CG

thethiny: that's sad

cegprakash: under lockdown nobody is going to know u in person

cegprakash: we can video chat eulerscheZahl aftr the contest

Durkin: yeah I'll have to send out some links next contest, this was a blast, think I could rope in a few

cegprakash: show me ur code and lets have fun eulerscheZahl

cegprakash: and lets make some gifs

EvModder: eulerscheZahl im playing vs your bot, it seems whichever of us doesn't time out wins

EvModder: lots for me to learn from this game though lol:

thethiny: finally beaten clyde

thethiny: 😭

EvModder: grats!

EvModder: BTW that replay I linked is my IDE code, and it's not as good as it looks

EvModder: I think I lose that game with submitted code, and the IDE code has some big issues they just don't come up in that one

MattSOrme: ffs. Something is wiping my stored neighbours

thethiny: probably your other neighbors

thethiny: stealing your nodes

thethiny: Rank 988/988

thethiny: very nice indeed

EvModder: i often find myself 78/78 because of bad submits

thethiny: same here now

thethiny: everyone in silver is killing my pacs

thethiny: anyone got a seed for 2 pacs?

EvModder: they will do that :)

EvModder: not offhand sorry

thethiny: np

wi_lius: how to set a seed in online IDE?

EvModder: i have to rewrite so much :l

EvModder: i was basing my code on the assumption my pacs always move in the order 0, 1, 2, 3, 4

EvModder: but now i want to change their move order and it complicates things

EvModder: actually nvm i can just add "move_order" member to my Pac class

EvModder: and sort on that

thethiny: changing the order is interesting indeed

thethiny: I always move them in the order 0 -> 4 then I go back and readjust if clashes happen

thethiny: works fine for me

thethiny: anticipating everything is costly

EvModder: i want to prioritize pacs that are "escaping" vs regular movements

DaNinja: why does move order matter?

MattSOrme: i haven't done anything about move ordering. I just always deal with them in order :/

EvModder: by move order i mean the order in which i pic moves for pacs. I keep track of which moves i've already picked so I don't repick them, DaNinja. so move order lets me prioritize pacs in danger so other of my pacs don't block their moves

EvModder: but i should've give away too many trade secrets ;)

thethiny: orrr

thethiny: you can move them in order

thethiny: then after you're done

thethiny: you check if they were panic and CLASHING

DaNinja: I see, so its for selecting the best move for each pac

thethiny: then you add +1 move to the other pacs

thethiny: in my case I have a path for every pac

EvModder: perhaps i will need to reorganize moves at the end as well

thethiny: if the path gonna block another, I just repeat one step in the path

thethiny: this way if it was gonna speed, it wont

thethiny: or if it was gonna mvoe 1, it'll wait

thethiny: I can beat clyde but not the enemies

thethiny: this is sad

EvModder: eulerscheZahl what is this godliness:

EvModder: that trap at the beginning

EvModder: trying to program something that fancy into my bot would be a nightmare

EvModder: i guess that's top 10 strats

WINWINWIN: Wow, the trap is amazing!!

Zandy156: but at the same time he gave up 2 super pellets for no reason

EvModder: every bot has some bugs

Zandy156: should have gotten the double kill at least

fasil: die()

fasil: System.exit(0)

fasil: done

fasil: fi

eulerscheZahl: not the nicest thing to kill you right there :P

EvModder: i am not even going to bother figuring out a way to avoid that situation

EvModder: too next-level for me xD

eulerscheZahl: i don't avoid either

eulerscheZahl: as long as only few people go for the kill, you will just waste turns

eulerscheZahl: and somehow i still lose with 5 vs 4

EvModder: luck

kkhabour: hi

eulerscheZahl: you get all 4 big pellets

EvModder: my bot has such a bad pellet collection strategy that your bot couldn't predict is eulerscheZahl

EvModder: oh, yeah that happened too

eulerscheZahl: my opening is really bad. not just in this game

EvModder: my opening is pretty good for the most part, but i fall apart late game

EvModder: my pacs start following eachother for the last few pellets instead of splitting up

Csipcsirip: hm 40% of my cpu usage was the pow function. lessons learned

EvModder: oh wow

eulerscheZahl: :D

Default avatar.png javatar2018: Hi EvModder, can i speak to you in private please urgent

EvModder: i use pow() multiple times for every pellet on the grid, every turn

EvModder: maybe i should rethink that

EvModder: sure

Csipcsirip: precache it in the first turn

EvModder: it hasn't caused me problems yet

EvModder: but i'll keep that idea in mind if i need some extra performance

Doju: Ahhh sht

EvModder: hm?

Doju: i've made a number of questionable design decisions

BenWo: lol morning Doju

EvModder: im in that boat as well lol

Doju: and now i need to change everything related to them

Doju: morning BenWo

Doju: agh

Doju: i think i need to go from cell objects to numpy arrays

Doju: but EVERYTHING is a cell in my thing

EvModder: i also have Cell class

EvModder: but im in c++ so it is okay for me :)

Doju: or at least the precalc distance thing needs to be a numpy array

Doju: instead of a dict

BenWo: just because of performance?

Doju: yeah

Doju: my magic method will do a loooot of array math

Doju: and python apparently doesnt like that

BenWo: yeah I'm not very efficient either, though I'm not really having performance issues yet

kovi: morning

Doju: morning

BenWo: morning kovi

kovi: 1 day to go, first day i am not on top

Zandy156: exciting

kovi: psyho - legend already karliso - hiding

Doju: ah, maybe i should actually have my cells be np arrays instead of tuples :/

Doju: wonder if that'll break stuff

kovi: euler submit after a day or so

eulerscheZahl: broken submit


Csipcsirip: cant break top70 anymore euler ?

eulerscheZahl: not with this :joy:

eulerscheZahl: somehow me local testrun said it's on par with the arena bot

EvModder: i can't break top 20 anymore and idk what i did :(

thethiny: 🤵🏻🤵🏻⚰🤵🏻🤵🏻

thethiny: @EvModder nothing, others submitted too. I got pushed back by 300

EvModder: yeah but this was in legend league like 5 hours ago

thethiny: oh

EvModder: and it's because of resubmit (i was 14th before)

thethiny: go back to the history

thethiny: and submit your older one

thethiny: and see

EvModder: i'm going to keep fixing-forward

EvModder: but i might do that, just to see

thethiny: just to ease your mind

EvModder: yeah

dbdr: OK, I have an idea how to code a bot, let's do it! /me is gone coding

**thethiny test

**thethiny is gone coding


EvModder: i have this line of code: v = v <= 0 ? --v : -v;

EvModder: except "v" is a more complicated name

eulerscheZahl: refactor it

EvModder: no it is beautiful

EvModder: is v = v > 0 ? -v : v-1; more readable?

EvModder: i'll go with that

thethiny: yeah the previous one would give error

thethiny: you can't assign v to --v

Doju: Also i need another grid but that one has to only have the cells

EvModder: but can't you?

Doju: ahrg

Doju: wait no, i need a flat array

Doju: okay that makes things a bit easier

thethiny: submitting...

thethiny: wish me luck

EvModder: gl!

Doju: gl

thethiny: thanks 😭

BenWo: good luck :)

thethiny: time out lol

thethiny: time to fix the bugs

thethiny: this guy is using random

thethiny: I can't replicate the bug

Doju: Time to change an integral part of my code and pray that everything doesn't break

EvModder: rip

BenWo: I tried that, now I have a cleaner version of what I had before that works worse

thethiny: @Doju 🤵🏻🤵🏻⚰🤵🏻🤵🏻

thethiny: @BenWo XD

thethiny: I hate it when the replay doesn't produce the same match

thethiny: My attacking works :D

thethiny: List of Last Battles:

  1. 2
  2. 2
  3. 2

thethiny: very nice

BenWo: lol huh?

thethiny: I lost all my battles once I ironed all the bugs

thethiny: this is the system that I want to have but it's not performing well

thethiny: Guess that's my capacity

BenWo: ok that's what I thought you were saying, lol

thethiny: I'm stuck at #227

thethiny: sad life

Doju: This is a miracle

Doju: everything works

Default avatar.png javatar2018: how can i avoid blocked pacs ?

thethiny: 😭😭😭

Doju: Is there any more sensible way to work with flat arrays where the walls have been taken out than storing the index of the cell in that?

thethiny: rephrase your question pls

Doju: I've been storing dists from cell to every other cell in a dict

Doju: with the other cell as the key and distance as value

Doju: i want to make that a numpy array that consists of only the walkable cells instead of a dict

Doju: but since bfs doesn't return the distances in order it's a bit of a puzzle to put the values in the correct order

thethiny: @AsaiYusuke congrats

Doju: actually i guess i can just initially store them in a dict and move them into a list afterwards

Doju: extra-actually:

Doju: i'll just keep the original dict in place so i don't break anything

thethiny: 100% battles at #72

Doju: That was surprisingly easy

Default avatar.png ashikujjaman: which algorithm will be good in silver league?

Doju: ashikujjaman for what goal?

Doju: gathering pellets?

Default avatar.png ashikujjaman: yes

Doju: that'll be for you to figure out :P

Default avatar.png ashikujjaman: :sweat:

Doju: It's pretty much the point of the contest

Default avatar.png ashikujjaman: any hint's?

thethiny: BFS with custom weights

Doju: i'll give you the hint that even naive systems will go pretty far

Doju: if you make them right


EvModder: eulerscheZahl i eat 3 of yours and you still win

thethiny: damn such a close fight

eulerscheZahl: not very polite of you

EvModder: sorry i am working on that

EvModder: i'm actually about to rip out all my code for hunting enemy pacs because it's hurting me more than it's helping.

eulerscheZahl: let me submit a version without killing. just to see how it ranks

MarKes: Guys, how do you use timer, to kill process?

eulerscheZahl: depends on your langauge

MarKes: C++

eulerscheZahl: #include <chrono>

MarKes: I use: unsigned t0=clock(); but it works more random

eulerscheZahl: auto start = std::chrono::high_resolution_clock::now();

eulerscheZahl: while (std::chrono::duration_cast<std::chrono::nanoseconds>(std::chrono::high_resolution_clock::now() - start).count() < time * (int)1e6) {

eulerscheZahl: and make sure to start the timer AFTER reading the inputs

MarKes: thanks, i will try

Csipcsirip: or a nicer way:

Csipcsirip: auto endt = chrono::high_resolution_clock::now() + 48ms; while(endt > chrono::high_resolution_clock::now())

eulerscheZahl: peaceful seems to rank a little lower but not much. maybe i need a compromise

struct: rand() % 2

Csipcsirip: its realy hard to tell 1 elo is not that much

dbf: like my boss in uni told me: just take to algorithms from articles, combine them so each is used when it is better and we will publish new article :)

thethiny: you work as a research assitnant?

dbf: no, it was when I was studying

kovi: for the top the trueskill variance can be 3

thethiny: okay I see

kovi: its easy to get stuck in midway and slowly ascend and it is possible to reach very top and slowly descend

eulerscheZahl: spam submit till lucky start

dbf: I was banned for several minutes of submits yesterday..

struct: I think its like 20 per hour max

struct: isnt it?

thethiny: oh there's a limit?

[Csongor]: You can time out if your program is not optimized enough, right?

thethiny: Guys lol it showed that I lost a battle in arena

thethiny: I pressed play and I won

thethiny: in the arena

WINWINWIN: [Csongor] yes you can

WINWINWIN: but only if you have something VERY time heavy

eulerscheZahl: pretty easy to timeout

[Csongor]: Is pathfinding from every player to every field of the map every turn heavy?

thethiny: yes

eulerscheZahl: no

thethiny: in c++ no

[Csongor]: but if you do a different pathfinding every time (js)

jdyerjdyer: Well, 168 LOC (and the last letter doesn't stand for code) and I'm in Bronze, hovering around 1600 with 70% of battles done. Now I need some sleep and I only have one day to complete a project I estimated at 2 days...Extra features are going to be minimal...At least I got something accomplished today, but was it the right thing...IDK...

WINWINWIN: Nearly 4900 players so far, Will it hit 5K?

eulerscheZahl: number is increasing slower

thethiny: I don't think 100 people will come in the last 1 day

thethiny: I can beat clyde 140-85 yet I'm stuck in low (bad) silver

thethiny: look like I always time out in 35x17 maps

thethiny: which is once every 10 matches

thethiny: Now I'm stuck at #75 cuz of the time outs

thethiny: damn

eulerscheZahl: then you know what to do next: get rid of the timeouts

thethiny: I can't cuz I'm timing out in the flood fill

thethiny: already optimized the hell out of it

eulerscheZahl: i doubt

thethiny: suggestions then?

eulerscheZahl: which language?

Doju: even if you're using python you shouldn't be timing out

thethiny: python

thethiny: the time outs are so random

eulerscheZahl: hm, is it ok to share the BFS here?

eulerscheZahl: quite generic snippet, i'm not sure

thethiny: let me see

darkhorse64: Share the playground or redblobgames

eulerscheZahl: i mean for us to see his code

Cappefra: eulerscheZahl idk but it's a pretty easy google so I don't see the harm in it

Cappefra: oh ok

Cappefra: no idea

Doju: yeah well you can find bfs code anywhere

Doju: if you just google

eulerscheZahl: ok, just do it :see_no_evil:


thethiny: here is the code

Doju: don't have your visited as deque

Doju: that should be a set

eulerscheZahl: or boolean array

Doju: also what on earth is happening there

Doju: you're doing it from every neighbor

thethiny: "Visited" contain the nodes (tails) only

thethiny: so it's quite small

Default avatar.png ashikujjaman: what the uparrow and downarrow means in leadboard?

thethiny: @Doju the inner loop is done for every neighbor

Doju: oh right, you're doing the recursive thing

Doju: i see

Doju: wait, aren't you doing, umm

Doju: basically depth first and every path has a max length of self.max_length

Doju: self.MAX_STEPS, sorry

eulerscheZahl: the recursion seems very weird to me, considering that it's supposed to be BFS, not DFS

thethiny: but it's doing the BFS as intended?

thethiny: I can see that when I project the grid

Doju: its dfs but has the same outcome as bfs

Doju: except that you're doing it super far

Doju: for every path

Doju: i think

thethiny: okay so I realized that I sent the wrong function

thethiny: I need to change my naming scheme

thethiny: the function I sent is working fine 🤦🏻‍♀️


thethiny: this is the one timeing out 🤦🏻‍♀️

Doju: now that looks like a bfs

thethiny: 😂😂😂

Nerchio: i dont get this challenge i submit i end up at like 80 place and after many hours i am top18

Nerchio: why

Doju: i'm very confused by your use of a deque as the visited

eulerscheZahl: because win rate is too close to 50% to climb quickly

thethiny: I tried list and deque and I found deque to be faster

Nerchio: submiting in gold feels bad because of it euler :D

Cappefra: yeah submitting in gold is awful :(

Cappefra: unless you have legendary code that is

eulerscheZahl: one small speedup thethiny: get_adjacents should not return walls. just cache a list of neighbors that you compute once

thethiny: question, does the first turn include the first playable turn as well?

eulerscheZahl: i don't know if you loop over all 4 directions or have a list stored at least

eulerscheZahl: 1st turn is until your first line of output

thethiny: how do you mean by caching a list of neighbors?

thethiny: like store the neighbor for every node in advance?

Cappefra: yeah exactly

Cappefra: that will help


Cappefra: I use an algorithm similar to yours at the very start of the game and it does it in 20 ms, idk if maybe in python it would take close to 50 ms

thethiny: hmmm, so basically you're storing the neighbors that aren't walls in advance

Cappefra: thing is I'm not using it every turn because the purpose of my algorithm is to store the distance from every node to eich other

thethiny: so that you skip it the next time

eulerscheZahl: yes, faster looping

eulerscheZahl: and you can remove 1 check in the BFS. there is no -1 anymore

Doju: Also I think you're upping the depth by one for every neighbor

thethiny: since it no longer is counted

thethiny: I can just remove it altogether cuz of the check after it

thethiny: != 999

thethiny: oh no nvm

Doju: wait nevermind, no you're not

eulerscheZahl: and i'm not sure about that BFSPoint. seems you are spamming new objects

Doju: also why are you even doing the != 999 thing?

thethiny: if grid[point.y][point.x] == -1:

               if visited[point.y][point.x] != 999:

thethiny: this is repetitive

kovi: t1024 has huge lead

eulerscheZahl: writing the distance into an array (class member of that point) would be fater

eulerscheZahl: time to rage quit

eulerscheZahl: someone asked me to sell my code, should have accepted the offer :D

Cappefra: kovi hungarians seem great at this

Cappefra: my wife is proud

thethiny: @Doju it means visited

Nerchio: really euleR? :D

eulerscheZahl: yeah

eulerscheZahl: can you sell me your code ? my school promise us to give a prize for the first 3 student and i need that prize so much please bro help me

thethiny: hahahaha

Nerchio: lol

Cappefra: hahahaha

thethiny: @eulerscheZahl removing my debug prints solves my timeouts

Csipcsirip: yeah he asked me as well. Is he an anti cheat bot by cg ? :D

eulerscheZahl: debug prints, classic :D

thethiny: that's cuz I didn't know first turn means first output I thought until I read input

thethiny: damn

Nerchio: yea yuo cant have too many printouts

thethiny: time to re submit :D

eulerscheZahl: to much error in general makes you timeout. and the first turn ends after you print to stdout

Doju: thethiny oh i had the same thing lmao

thethiny: I'm climbing up faster now :D

Cappefra: looks like my biggest weakness is getting eaten

Cappefra: no idea what to do about that anymore

Nerchio: roll the dice

Adnmaster: make your pacs switch if an enemy is near

Cappefra: Nerchio now I'll fight you and come back victoriously with a replay where I win

Cappefra: be back in half an hour

thethiny: 😂

Durkin: haven't actually used a switch command yet

Adnmaster: i use it to make my enemy dead if he comes at me

thethiny: oh wow rank #18

Cappefra: I need to play a bit with my eval function

Adnmaster: what does eval() do?

thethiny: battles in progress 44% and rank 37

thethiny: fingers crossed

Cappefra: Adnmaster it's not a built-in function

eulerscheZahl: eval() executes code passed as a string

Adnmaster: oh

eulerscheZahl: eval is built in. at least in python and javascript

Cappefra: oh ok

Adnmaster: let me look it up on google

Cappefra: then I didn't mean that eval lol

Cappefra: I meant my evaluation function

BenWo: welp, I give up

eulerscheZahl: F12, go to console eval("3+4") prints 7

Adnmaster: hey eval is awesome!

Adnmaster: why didn't i use it before...

Cappefra: seems safe! :D

Doju: It's kind of sketchy though Adnmaster

thethiny: what would eval help in?

Doju: why would you need to use that?

Adnmaster: not really, but still seems like a function i could use somewhere

eulerscheZahl: to load code dynamically

Doju: hm

thethiny: example maybe?

Cappefra: Nerchio HA! MADE IT


Doju: wouldn't something like dictionaries be better for that?

Cappefra: it only took like 15 tries

Adnmaster: yeah, you are right

Cappefra: does anyone else get the feeling if they watch the last battles outcome during the submit it'll be worse? haha

thethiny: @Doju oh nice I'm close to you now

Doju: nice

Cappefra: uh this actually looks like a promising submit

Cappefra: went up 150 places at 7%

thethiny: damn I was 16 for a sec

thethiny: then Doju disappeared

Doju: ?

thethiny: you were 19

thethiny: now you're gone

Doju: Oh, right.

Doju: i'm redoing my pellet gathering system atm

Neumann: Are there any people in top 30 legend with small depth search ? (<4)

Doju: because the old one was insanely simple and naive

Doju: i think i'll get to gold ez pz with the new system once it's done

Doju: (in a few hours, prolly)

thethiny: good luck

Doju: ty

eulerscheZahl: i guess you would need to ask all top30 players to find out

Cappefra: I spoke too soon, I'm back where I was

Neumann: eulerscheZahl: let's start with you :D

eulerscheZahl: 6

Neumann: Hum

MSmits: eulerscheZahl you time out a lot

eulerscheZahl: in the arena or IDE only?

Neumann: MSmits is the kind of guy to use a small depth, I bet

MSmits: in IDE I had like 10 crashes out of 100 games, but I just witnessed one in arena as well

eulerscheZahl: then i should do something about it

MSmits: Neumann my search depth is huge, but it doesnt help much

Cappefra: by depth 6 you mean 6 pellets or 6 turns?

eulerscheZahl: 6 turns

MSmits: I can do depth 8, or 10, or 12, but it performs the same

MSmits: which is, good

Cappefra: ok so like 12 if you have speed

MSmits: but i have other problems

Neumann: No less than 8

thethiny: I ranked up way higher just cuz I changed my heuristic from -5 on hostile enemies to -20

eulerscheZahl: depth 8 is a little better offline. but too slow

Neumann: Any tricks to break the top 30-40 limit besides good farming ?

thethiny: my depth search is 9

eulerscheZahl: why do you want to know Neumann? having a low depth yourself and curious if that's what it takes?

thethiny: when it's > 2 pacs it's 8

Neumann: eulerscheZahl: yes, currently depth 4

Neumann: Going further would require a major rework

Neumann: I am wondering if depth 4 can do better by working on other aspects of the game

Peudoki: the trick is always good farming

eulerscheZahl: and that's exactly where i fail :(

MSmits: I fail everywhere else :P

Neumann: What about enemy tracking ? Is going full farm always better than being extra cautious ?

eulerscheZahl: tracking helps to know where to farm

Peudoki: being cautios based on tracking is hard to pull off

Peudoki: but watch some Romka games

Neumann: Ok, tracking what pellets could have been gone. But what about tracking "the enemies at the corner"

MSmits: for me, full farm seems to be the only thing that works. Every time i try to factor in opponents, my bot gets worse Neumann. But that's mostly because I havent found a good way

Default avatar.png wereii: are there any limits on threading/async stuff? dunno if that could be used for some of these games but just thinkin

thethiny: after our battles are over, do we get to battle Clyde?

jdyerjdyer: My pacs hurt. They be so dense. I'm out of time now. So much for reaching past bronze in this contest. Thanks anyway. Anyone else's head hurt?

thethiny: or only during the progression?

Adnmaster: my head is explode

Csipcsirip: have an other pac, which sees through the corner Neumann :p

jdyerjdyer: The rules seemed to go from easy to okay to global thermo nuclear war.

Neumann: Csipcsirip: I always forget about the x-rays

Neumann: /flip

jdyerjdyer: "Sometimes the only winning move is not to play." lol

Cappefra: MSmits same for me! I'm glad to hear that, means I can still climb a lot if I keep working on my farm

eulerscheZahl: knowing the enemy around the corner can help

eulerscheZahl: sadly CG deleted some replays already that i wanted to share

eulerscheZahl: i intentionally change my direction when i predict the enemy to walk around the corner, not seeing me

eulerscheZahl: sneaky ninja kill

Neumann: Sweet

Doju: That's pretty neat eulerscheZahl

MSmits: yes Cappefra, my farm bot that came in 2nd on monday, basically got to legend without any modifications, the bot sees all opponents it cant ignore safely as blocks and otherwise just farms

jdyerjdyer: Probably didn't help that I've only had the 12 hours from today that I sort of stole from other projects to try this contest. I'll still meet deadlines, but one of them is going to be tight. lol

jdyerjdyer: Anyway, my bed calls to me at least for the 3 and 1/2 hours I can spare tonight. Best of luck everyone. One of these days I'll get to participate without any least one can hope. G'nite!

Cappefra: MSmits that's great, I'm trying to improve my farming but it seems like all my submits now are only doing worse

Cappefra: best I've made was 150 gold with the same exact code that got me to 350 just 15 minutes before

MSmits: ah yes... dont use the submission as a measurement

MSmits: try playing 100 games vs yourself or something

MSmits: with random seeds

Nerchio: so who do i get enemy id?

MSmits: you mean arena id?

Nerchio: agentId


MSmits: I always get it from there

Nerchio: thanks

Nerchio: so can't get a boss then?

MSmits: there is a way to do it in cg bench

MSmits: i forgot how

MSmits: someone else will know

Neumann: -2

Neumann: Is the ID of the boss of your current league

MSmits: helps to have the creator in chat :P

Neumann: Or use 2941103, it's the gold boss

Cappefra: 51% win rate fml

MSmits: I still use your tool a lot Neumann, thanks for making that. Wouldn't have any nr 1's in any arena if I couldnt test my bots like that

Neumann: :D

Cappefra: what do you do with the agentId?

MSmits: it's your opponent

MSmits: it's like playing in the IDE

MSmits: only without the browser


Cappefra: it uses the submitted code then?

MSmits: no

MSmits: you provide it code

MSmits: a file

MSmits: so you can test without submitting. however, it does get in your play "slot"

eulerscheZahl: there used to be a browser addon too. but it stopped working long ago

eulerscheZahl: CG spunk

MSmits: dont forget that, or the next time you submit, it will be your test that gets submitted

Cappefra: oh wait I only opened the stat tool

Cappefra: thanks guys

thethiny: @AIshock it's funny how our pacs print the exact same messages

thethiny: it's like we think the same

Nerchio: playing against myself is completely useless in this gae

Nerchio: its a draw 99% of the time :p

dbf: just play 1k games to see the diff

Nerchio: haha damn

Nerchio: poor servers

eulerscheZahl: Neumann i found one of those kills i was talking about:

eulerscheZahl: didn't help in the end

thethiny: I submitted 5 times in 5 minutes

thethiny: I hope I won't get submit ban

eulerscheZahl: first you get captchas

Doju: It's just the stupidest bugs that take the longest to find...

thethiny: @Doju our first and only fight

Doju: i was looking for this for like 25 mins:

Doju: cell.dists = [array of numbers]

Doju: for dist in cell.distances:

Doju: "NoneType is not iterable"

thethiny: lol

thethiny: Collided with enemy with the same type!!! Enemy at (16, 9) of type DEAD Switch to None

eulerscheZahl: python...

Doju: xD thethiny

eulerscheZahl: every compiled language would tell you what's wrong instantly

thethiny: I didn't handle DEAD yet

thethiny: @euler that's why I love C++, but it's not good for competitions

Doju: thethiny look at the leaderboard

Doju: Oh this is gonna get expensive...

thethiny: whtat's with it

thethiny: Oh I meant

thethiny: not good for me

Doju: ok

thethiny: since I don't like handling dynamic arrays

thethiny: which is what competitions are good at

Doju: god damn

Doju: i wrote some fancy recursive collaboration code

Doju: and i'll time out if i use my fancy new logic

thethiny: oh nice

Doju: with that

Doju: ...

thethiny: oh not nice

thethiny: turns are taking me 3ms

thethiny: but the first turn goes up to 1.1s

Doju: o.o

Doju: Or i guess i'll at least try

Doju: maybe i time out maybe i dont

Doju: if i do i'll have to make this smarter

thethiny: Can't I just beat clyde to advance?

Doju: Nope

thethiny: Do I really have to play others?

thethiny: I mean I always beat him

Doju: :/

Doju: Hmm i got some fancy new probability things working

Doju: Now i have other numbers on my grid than 1 and 9 :D

BenWo: cool XD

BenWo: yep, me two days ago beats me today

BenWo: usually badly

thethiny: I beat Clyde 3 times in a row

thethiny: then lost to EdgeCase 3 times

thethiny: I'm 2nd now

Cappefra: what's the multiName for this contest? I don't see any in the IDE URL

Cappefra: Also I suppose as language I should tip C\# cause # are comments?

EdgeCase: @thethiny: sorry, I guess :)


Doju: gratz



thethiny: I can beat the bot

Doju: :o

Doju: 1k in silver exactly

thethiny: I'm winning in goldddddd

thethiny: I can beat the boss of gold at least XD

thethiny: oh god promotion in gold is 1 by 1

thethiny: that's it

thethiny: my life is now complete

thethiny: Goodnight y'all cya next competition

eulerscheZahl: legend is open already

thethiny: I know

thethiny: but I know I'm not that skilled yet

eulerscheZahl: only on league opening you have a larger promotion wave

thethiny: yeah

eulerscheZahl: MSmits games parsed: 48 timeouts found: 0

duckquackduck: gratz @thethiny

eulerscheZahl: feel free to change my ID in your batch

eulerscheZahl: or test against a stronger opponent

Cappefra: ... I can't use the benchmark tool cause stupid me made his first login with facebook years ago

Cappefra: can't I switch to a different login type?

eulerscheZahl: go to password reset

Cappefra: there it wants my current password which is always wrong cause it's not a CG password

thethiny: @duckquackduck thanks

eulerscheZahl: ask dbdr, he managed to change the login mode

eulerscheZahl: i created a real account in the beginning

dbdr: "I forgot my password"

Cappefra: oh, right lol

Cappefra: thanks guys

dbdr: sorry, won't answer much, in the zone... it might fail miserably, but right now it feels right, so I gotta try :)

thethiny: I stand no chance in gold lol

Default avatar.png ashikujjaman: what the arrow sign means i leadboard?

Doju: grid.magic_values

Doju: this is destined to work

thethiny: No idea

thethiny: I don't even understand why my score gets lower the higher I get

Doju: ashikujjaman i think it means your rank has risen

Cappefra: ashikujjaman that's if your points have gone up or down since last change

Doju: or fallen

Default avatar.png ashikujjaman: means Up arrow means rank up?

thethiny: yess

Cappefra: eulerscheZahl sorry to bother again but do you know what the multiName is here? the comment says it should be in the URL of the IDE

eulerscheZahl: for me it's 27865409fb226e2168e5d4fd038280cab4e3aa9b

thethiny: Guys I didn't notice the rules change from gold to silver

eulerscheZahl: yours is different

Cappefra: oh ok it's a seed, I thought it should be something like SpringChallenge2020

Default avatar.png ashikujjaman: I got 101 rank in silver league my previous rank was 850 But my arrow is down and the value is 23.23:sweat:

eulerscheZahl: just hit play and have a close look at the traffic this generates. then you see the requests and game id ;)

eulerscheZahl: or just copy from the URL now that I tell you, way easier

Cappefra: thanks

Nerchio: its spring-challenge-2020 cappefra

MSmits: eulerscheZahl I did find a win vs you in last battles where you timed out on frame 3. But it might be rare then

MSmits: I guess mostly an IDE issue

MSmits: it's gone now, so i cant prove it

Csipcsirip: yeah euler times out in ide quiet often

WINWINWIN: Should be difficult to optimizze in the top

eulerscheZahl: C# has release mode now

eulerscheZahl: so i'm the next dbdr

eulerscheZahl: IMO it would be the best to use the precompiled bots in the IDE too, when i chose from the leaderboard rather than my IDE code

struct: ^

eulerscheZahl: 1 timeout in 151 matches now

thethiny: that's good

eulerscheZahl: good enough considering that i was at 5 out of 80

WINWINWIN: Why are there timeouts?

eulerscheZahl: because i fail to respond in 50ms

WINWINWIN: But how come it does not happen consistently then?

eulerscheZahl: now i execute some code in turn 1, even if i only need it in turn 2. because of warmup

eulerscheZahl: because i'm close to 50ms. either i get lucky or unlucky

struct: how much faster is release mode euler?

WINWINWIN: K, not a problem that people like me have to worry about then :)

WINWINWIN: I berely touch 20ms as I really dont have much

eulerscheZahl: i haven't measured

eulerscheZahl: could check mean max now. i resubmitted when my bot was broken due to the update

eulerscheZahl: sim count in arena (see my messages)

eulerscheZahl: IDE

eulerscheZahl: i know there are different servers. maybe i got a fast one in the arena and slow in the IDE. but still a notable difference that can't by explained by the hardware alone i think

thethiny: BTW The push that pushed me from Silver to Gold was that I gave corners less value than normal pellets.

Doju: Alright

Doju: i'm only now assigning real values to pellets. lets see how it goes

Doju: should be ready-to-test in just a bit

thethiny: I'm assigning 0.8 to all pellets

Doju: o.o

thethiny: and 1 if in the seen pellets

Doju: Aha i see

thethiny: so that I prefer a path I've seen than one I didn't


thethiny: and since I don't need corners anymore I got rid of the function

thethiny: and saved 20ms

WINWINWIN: thethiny why are corner pacs worth less?

thethiny: because when u pick them u have to go back

thethiny: so you lost 1 step

WINWINWIN: K, thanks

Doju: thethiny i think that should come naturally from the way i'm making my magic math

Doju: once i get that implemented

thethiny: good luck

Doju: ty

thethiny: goodnight

Doju: night

Dr-D: (mid day here ;) )

thethiny: same here

thethiny: it's 2PM

eulerscheZahl: then have a good lunch

Doju: wwhhat

thethiny: I am up since yesterday

thethiny: working on this

thethiny: cuz last day

eulerscheZahl: still 22h

thethiny: tomorrow I have work so I can't work on it

Doju: how is there only a 1 hour time difference between finland and the uae

thethiny: we're GMT+4

avdg: hi

avdg: (yep, not working on my bot, but trying to experiment with rust now)

Doju: hey avdg

avdg: I'm more interested in computer arch now :p dipping myself a bit into

avdg: branch prediction is amazing

avdg: (if done correctly, without known bloats)

kovi: cmon euler, the other toad is ahead

eulerscheZahl: i broke my bot but right now i don't see where

eulerscheZahl: my version from yesterday is stronger according to offline testing

dbf: do a binary search on your commit log

WINWINWIN: How are you doing offline testing eulerscheZahl?


WINWINWIN: thanks struct

Cappefra: I keep getting internal error with that tool, idk where my config is wrong

eulerscheZahl: that's not offline testing

Cappefra: it goes [ SEED 0 ] ERROR Internal error

eulerscheZahl: i downloaded the repo and modified the main class to use my own bots

eulerscheZahl: i don't use CG Benchmark

WINWINWIN: How many games do you compare against yourself eulerscheZahl?

WINWINWIN: And is there anyway where I can find out how to do that?

MSmits: Cappefra you cant use the IDE while testing with cg benchmark

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: Did any of you reach the top?

MSmits: cg benchmark hijacks your play button basically

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: Legend league

WaRiOrOfCoDe: every single one talking here is either in legend or in gold

eulerscheZahl: couple 100

Dr-D: <- bronce

WaRiOrOfCoDe: not me

WINWINWIN: How did you find out how to do that?

WaRiOrOfCoDe: i am in bronze

WaRiOrOfCoDe: observation

WaRiOrOfCoDe: i read to get more insight on how others are tackling problem

Dr-D: (cant even write the metal name properly ..)

MSmits: WINWINWIN, they are just good with java. And compiling java programs.

WINWINWIN: Thanks MSmits

WINWINWIN: So no way I can do it then :(

MSmits: sometimes someone shares a brutaltester referee which uses a modified contest referee. You need to make some small modificiation to it to use the brutaltester referee

MSmits: I didnt bother askign anyone for one this time around

MSmits: as I didnt see much value in self-testing

MSmits: cg benchmark makes more sense

eulerscheZahl: i don't even use brutaltester

MSmits: I know, but you use something similar I am guessing

WINWINWIN: eulerscheZahl, so all you did was modify the gamerunner.addagent line?

eulerscheZahl: just the referee itself with my 2 bots hardcoded and playing in a loop

eulerscheZahl: yes, basically


WINWINWIN: Thanks eulerscheZahl!, Can I run this on BlueJ as it is the Ide that I use for school?

eulerscheZahl: BlueJ :D

eulerscheZahl: i can't take that IDE seriously

Hvosten: Fifth in silver. I will never advance to gold :D

eulerscheZahl: get eclipse or IntelliJ

WINWINWIN: :D It is what we use for school

WINWINWIN: Thanks, will try that now

MSmits: sometimes a worse IDE is a better IDE

eulerscheZahl: and it's a toy for kiddies, nothing to do real work with

MSmits: thats what i mean, the kiddies dont want to look at all the advanced stuff :)

eulerscheZahl: you click some parts and can't even edit some lines


eulerscheZahl: CyberLemonade was using it too

WINWINWIN: Its that bad?


kovi: nice top3

WINWINWIN: This advises the use of BlueJ :D

eulerscheZahl: " BlueJ is strongly recommended for its simplicity, ease of use and because it is very well suited for an ‘objects first’ approach"

Dr-D: one to go, kovi

eulerscheZahl: make your own opinion MSmits

eulerscheZahl: i see it as an April fools joke

MSmits: will check it out

WINWINWIN: Is that guy serious??

MSmits: what do you mean WINWINWIN

eulerscheZahl: me?

WINWINWIN: Not u eulerscheZahl, the guy making the video

eulerscheZahl: i guess so

MSmits: I can't hear an indian accent now and not think of the KitBoga scammer videos =/

MSmits: they are awesome btw

WINWINWIN: scambaiting?

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: they all have the same accents, presumably Indian

wlesavo: MSmits same but with jim browning

MSmits: ah right there are multiple channels like that

MSmits: but as for Bluej, seems like a legit attempt at simplifying the process for getting a working program in java for students new to programming. But it could have problems I would run into when giving it a serious try

MSmits: it looks like what my colleague is using for his java class, but it might not be Bluej

Doju: Yess its finally not throwing an error

NickStahl: Doju, ready for gold!

Doju: NickStahl I have to finish all the things first

Doju: but for now it's looking decent


Doju: Oh i wasnt even using the probabilities oops

Doju: xd

eulerscheZahl: i didn't know that you watch KitBoga too MSmits

eulerscheZahl: more entertaining than Jim Browning. But Jim achieves that a whole callcenter gets shut down and people arrested

MSmits: i didnt watch it until a week ago or so

MSmits: sometimes you find new corners of the internet

[Csongor]: Can you disable underlines from errors somehow?

MSmits: oh and one time i was called by a similar scammer

MSmits: very confusing

MSmits: it was a woman with an indian accent that told me I had a problem with my computer and that I should turn it on

MSmits: and she worked for microsoft (of course)

eulerscheZahl: me too. told me that i have a windows virus. told him that i have a linux

eulerscheZahl: then he kept telling me about an infected network

MSmits: ah, I actually have windows, so I just told her I'll fix the problem myself :P

eulerscheZahl: :D

eulerscheZahl: i listed for a minute or 2. then i told him what his next steps would be (remote connect, event viewer, netstat, ...)

Dr-D: How did you get any of those calls? I never got any of those calls O.o

eulerscheZahl: he was like "then why are you wasting my time"? me: "you called me" he insulted me and then hung up

MSmits: Dr-D randomly, not sure... I never heard of these scams before that

eulerscheZahl: random number? no idea

MSmits: ah, cool, you pissed one off

eulerscheZahl: achievement unlocked

MSmits: If I knew it was a scammer I would have made more of an effort. I was too surprised

MSmits: of course 5 min afterwards I did realize

eulerscheZahl: was tempted to let him connect to a linux VM with weird configuration


Dr-D: -.-

eulerscheZahl: i3wm: you don't even know how to launch any program when seeing it for the first time

eulerscheZahl: like the vim editor

MSmits: Dr-D these scams are more technical than the spam mail javes Veitch handles

MSmits: james

**Dr-D is too stupid to c&p ..

MSmits: basically they do things like, tell you're getting a refund

MSmits: then use teamviewer on your pc to open your bank. Then do some javascript to make you think you were refunded too much

MSmits: then you have to give *them* money

MSmits: usually with google play cards or something

MSmits: so that there is no bank trace

MSmits: only works on completely clueless people

MSmits: but there are many of those

lifetimeLearner007: Hi all, I'm trying to find closest enemy for switch. checking same x or same y isn't considering if there is a wall in between. Any suggestions?

jrke: hey anybody can suggest me what can i do


MSmits: no easy fix for that

MSmits: though

MSmits: your bot stopped after speed for 1 turn

MSmits: frame 19

MSmits: nah might just be non-sychronized

lifetimeLearner007: no MSmits, the enemy pac has speed, so it looks like our pac stopped

MSmits: hard to see

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: its difficult to see

eulerscheZahl: this guy is quite fun to watch as well

lifetimeLearner007: any suggestions for my question above MSmits?

[Csongor]: lifetimeLearner007 find path to enemy and use the length of the path as distance ( I do this)

Doju: Oh come on...

lifetimeLearner007: check path with what, [Csongor]?

lifetimeLearner007: path length*

Doju: np.average(single_dimensional_array, axis=0) seems to return the average along axis 1 :(

lifetimeLearner007: ok, u mean path length with dx or dy... got it... thanks

Doju: Oh wait, nevermind

Doju: i'm trying to index infinity, i think.

MSmits: lifetimeLearner007 yeah just calculate the distance for each

MSmits: eulerscheZahl it's funny indeed

[Csongor]: So, is it possible to remove underlines from errors?

Scarfield: "They're among us" xD

Scarfield: nice link euler

eulerscheZahl: :)

MSmits: not as good as a video of kitboga keeping a scammer on the line for 4 hrs and make him watch while he redeems the google play codes or use the money to buy stuff on amazon :P

MSmits: the rage is insane

StepBack13: starting in 20 sec

Default avatar.png cguzman: @eulerscheZahl how is the code jam?

eulerscheZahl: i failed

Default avatar.png cguzman: was difiicult?

eulerscheZahl: difficult to me

Default avatar.png cguzman: no so easy like this contest?

eulerscheZahl: just different

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: guys , how do you think I could "eat" an enemy pac, is there a number of tries?

eulerscheZahl: i love kitbogas banking website with the security checks

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: I see some healthbar but cannot grab it as a number

Default avatar.png cguzman: at least you try it !

Default avatar.png cguzman: good luck with this contest

EvModder: it's not a health bar, it's the cooldown for changing types :)

Doju: PippiCoder that's not a health bar

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: Hmm shit

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: That explains xD

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: Can enemy pacs be eaten in the bronze league?

Doju: uhhh

Doju: i think so

IAmNoob: hi:)

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: One hit and their gone?

Doju: yes

Doju: if you beat them in rock paper scissors

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: Hmm

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: I see

Doju: hi IAmNoob

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: It made me think

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: I can speed when I see them xD

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: And chase them

Doju: perhaps

MSmits: speed is often synchronized for a long time

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: What do you mean by that?

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: Synchronised how?

MSmits: meaning all pacs chain-speed

MSmits: they're all speeding at the same time

MSmits: until something happens and they may need to switch

MSmits: that de-synchronizes the speed

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: But the command is issued per pac, isn't it?

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: I mean speed boost

MSmits: yes, they can all speed

MSmits: the cooldown is per pac

MSmits: so speed whenever you can unless there is a reason not to

MSmits: for example, when an opponent has you trapped and can kill you

Default avatar.png SujalAI: Hi I am in wood 1 league

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: Hey SujalAI

Default avatar.png SujalAI: My program is timing out, I think it's because there are so many loops. Can you help me?

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: Do you have it on github somewhere?

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: I can

MSmits: eh

MSmits: you're definitely not supposed to have it on a public github

Default avatar.png SujalAI: No, I'll p[ut it on github now

MSmits: thats against contest rules

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: I didn't know

MSmits: we dont share code during contest

Default avatar.png SujalAI: It's just wood league and I'm finding the nearest pellet

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: I see

MSmits: at most you can share a snippet to debug

MSmits: but not whole bots

Default avatar.png SujalAI: Okay

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: I didn't know, sorry

MSmits: in fact this rule is also true for multiplayer arena

MSmits: no need to be sorry, i am just preventing problems :)

Doju: Good guy MSmits

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: MSmits do you work here?

MSmits: no

eulerscheZahl: did he share already? i need some inspration

MSmits: lol

Doju: euler :D

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: Shit humor

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: lol

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: Its so dry I need to drink something

jdyerjdyer: Who needs sleep when you can waste 4 extra hours hacking away at pos code only to watch your pacs do was making you go smh. I think I'm done. Can't seem to crack past 1500 in bronze. Brain fried. G'nite for real this time.

jdyerjdyer: btw, was stands for "weird *** ****"

jdyerjdyer: if that wasn't clear

MSmits: same for me jdyerjdyer also pretty much done, nothing worked all week after monday :(

MSmits: but learned some new things at least

MSmits: and gn

wlesavo: MSmits that improvement also didnt work?

MSmits: opponent tracking? No not really

MSmits: or opponent pellet prediction, or whatever you want to call it

MSmits: it made things worse

MSmits: as far as I could tell

MSmits: its really hard to tell

wlesavo: this is main problem for me, hard to tell if any one particular feature works

Default avatar.png cguzman: frame 80 lucky enemy

IAmNoob: wtf

ShannonNorris97: At the beginning of the contest I said I'd be really pleased with myself if I got into the top 500, but at this point I'm making such little progress that I'll be happy to get in the top 1000. I've got some stuff to learn

IAmNoob: at what level do i reach gold?

ShannonNorris97: When you beat the silver boss, which is around position 550 on the overall leaderboard

IAmNoob: no no no no

IAmNoob: at my level

IAmNoob: i am now 23

ShannonNorris97: ohh sorry, I'm not sure

EvModder: MSmits i have been working on opponent tracking for the last 4 hours and i still don't think it's helping me at all

EvModder: lol

EvModder: so ik how you feel

MSmits: yea, I started out liking this contest and I still think it's fine, but my failure at making almost anything work well is getting to me =/

MSmits: after monday that is

Cappefra: I feel exactly the same

MSmits: ooc was also a very complicated contest, but it was a bit easier to see the result of your changes

MSmits: oh... and the changes I did there actually helped :)

JocelynL: I have learned one thing from this challenge: don't sacrifice unit tests because you want to go faster

MSmits: good lesson for me also... my code is too much of a mess to work with now

MSmits: not sure how many bugs it still has

JocelynL: now every little change I make is hard because there are hidden bugs :(

MSmits: I think most people feel that way atm

MSmits: it's pretty common at end of contest, but this one is pretty bad in that regard

eulerscheZahl: :+1:

JocelynL: it's easy to get ahead of yourself because you start with a very simple idea, so you think you don't need tests. And that's the beginning of the end

JocelynL: of course in the professional world we would never do that :sweat_smile:

MSmits: it's a fine line too... how much code do you write before doing the test. It's a different amount for everyone. I used to make more mistakes. I often write like 50-100 lines before a test now... probably too much

Doju: please dont time out please dont time out

Doju: nice, doesn't time out

Doju: Maybe it's time to submit this

Doju: no timeouts pls

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: This website is fun in general

Default avatar.png PippiCoder: How do you find it compared to other ones like LeetCode?

eulerscheZahl: it's just different. LeetCode, Codeforces and such offer puzzles that you can solve alone and get 100% correct

MSmits: that seems more of a learning website

eulerscheZahl: here you play a game. there is no "solved"/"finished"

MSmits: CG has lots of learning related activities but seems more competitive

eulerscheZahl: i think i confused leetcode with another site

RockyMullet: is there a reliable to way to tell how many turns have passed ? the speed kind of screw the simple way of incrementing a counter on each input

MSmits: I guess the practice puzzles fit the criteria, but they give xp and are not really intended to be competitive

avdg: Making testable code is more important than having tests (though if you do make a lot of errors, having tests are very valuable)

MSmits: RockyMullet inside your sim or in the game?

eulerscheZahl: somehow thought about atcoder, ignore me

avdg: kinda tradeoff speed vs correctness

RockyMullet: MSmits in the game

MSmits: if in the game, just do turn++

avdg: easy to not get it right

MSmits: before you output

RockyMullet: MSmits yeah ok, but it can be wrong

eulerscheZahl: RockyMullet they fixed that bug. always 200 turns, not frames

MSmits: why

Default avatar.png SAFAKKARAASLAN: selam beyler

RockyMullet: if a single pac has speed, 2 turns pass

eulerscheZahl: read my text

MSmits: your game will still do one update turn of 50ms

MSmits: or do you mean in the viewer?

RockyMullet: oohhh ok thnx euler

RockyMullet: I missed that

RockyMullet: I just want like a "cap" where it's impossible the game go behond that point



eulerscheZahl: rank above the silver boss

eulerscheZahl: sorry, forgot capslock

IAmNoob: i am level 24 silver

RockyMullet: oh ok you mean the levels

IAmNoob: yeah

RockyMullet: 30 I think

IAmNoob: ok

IAmNoob: thx

RockyMullet: np

eulerscheZahl: OH THAT GOLD. 30 FOR GOLD, 40 FOR LEGEND


eulerscheZahl: I NEED A BIGGER FONT

MSmits: :scream_cat:


RockyMullet: someone does like jokes lol

IAmNoob: :)

MSmits: eulerscheZahl, you might be rank 1 again after contest right? I mean overall

RockyMullet: ok last day, time to make my sim lol

MSmits: seems Royal e in gold

eulerscheZahl: no idea, didn't do the math

MSmits: we'll see

eulerscheZahl: fixed my bug, back to ~15 and timing out again

eulerscheZahl: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

eulerscheZahl: games parsed: 70 timeouts found: 5

MSmits: I'm super close to counter balance on Dutch lb, hope this pushes me to rank 1 again

MSmits: he has a lot of points

eulerscheZahl: for germany there isn't really any competition

MSmits: right, you're just taking on France all by yourself

eulerscheZahl: :crossed_swords:

eulerscheZahl: new leader or lucky start?

eulerscheZahl: 2 points ahead

ShlOk: Hey i got 1st in many of clashes but still it shows 1 gold. And how to increse xp in this??

RockyMullet: xp is for puzzles

RockyMullet: and achievements

MSmits: and some other stuff

MSmits: mostly community related

RockyMullet: anything involving other players gives CP



eulerscheZahl: i cheated. but pssst

RockyMullet: he made multiplayer bots, gives you a lot of xp

IAmNoob: now for real

MSmits: he did almost all of them, and every contest since he joined and every arena. He's legend in all of them

RockyMullet: like made the game I mean

eulerscheZahl: not really. 250XP for a contribution that gets approved

MSmits: the ones that have a legend that is

eulerscheZahl: no matter of complex multiplayer or boring clash of code

IAmNoob: ok ok ok, this mean i should work on my bot?

MSmits: bot(s)

RockyMullet: most of my XP comes from promoting in leagues

eulerscheZahl: each wood-> legend gives approx 1k XP

RockyMullet: took me a while to reach lvl 30

IAmNoob: MSmits what do u mean bot(s)

MSmits: write 30 bots that get somewhere between rank 3 and 40 and you'll get near euler

eulerscheZahl: twice if you do it in contest + multiplayer in the past (changed now)

MSmits: IAmNoob there are many multiplayer arenas

IAmNoob: ok i did not know

IAmNoob: and this is how you guys make XP?

MSmits: just check out:

IAmNoob: ok thx

eulerscheZahl: and don't underestimate upvotes

MSmits: its where most of my xp comes from

MSmits: but not all

eulerscheZahl: space maze only gave me 250XP for approval. but > 750XP for upvotes, was pending for ages

MSmits: oh, nice


ShlOk: Can u explain how Achievement showcase are calculated??

wlesavo: space maze still on my list, looks really fun and really hard

MSmits: wow I am ranked quite high in xp

MSmits: did not know

MSmits: only level 34

eulerscheZahl: robo recently solved space maze. even in python

wlesavo: wow

wlesavo: so there is hope

wlesavo: ill ggive it an honest try

MSmits: seems more fulfilling if you do it in python. Means you wrote some great code


Community success rate: 6% lol

eulerscheZahl: when i created it, i wasn't even sure if i should make it easier. i struggled to solve it with a faster language (C#)

IAmNoob: MSmits in what language do u progeam?

AntiSquid: lots confusion was caused by that and the dead pacs change

MSmits: c++ now mostly, but I am more comfortable with C#. These days I almost always drop C# for a faster bot though

AntiSquid: ah chat scroll, wonderful

AntiSquid: does top of legend still feel random?

AntiSquid: just wonder if having well improved bot means more stable rank

eulerscheZahl: there is some up and down

Doju: How do you guys tweak variables?

eulerscheZahl: but you can see that some players are stable in the top region

Doju: It takes forever to submit

eulerscheZahl: not at #1 or #2 all the time, but still somewhat stable in top5

Kellthazar: howdy

Doju: hey

WINWINWIN: Who is the #1 in the XP leaderboard?

WINWINWIN: Far ahead of euler

eulerscheZahl: we don't know but it's possible to self-upvote. that's probably what happened

eulerscheZahl: maybe in combination with a script

Icebox: recalc still gonna flip everything upside down

eulerscheZahl: create a private contribution, upvote yourself. +10XP

WINWINWIN: Maybe, but how is he at a lower level that you?

MSmits: upside down would be great :P


eulerscheZahl: because lvl50 was the cap in the past

eulerscheZahl: till i mentioned that i'm 51 actually

eulerscheZahl: so they changed that. but only updates when you gain more XP


AntiSquid: isn't that just a test account of sorts as #1 on the xp leaderboard?

eulerscheZahl: CG says it's not their account


eulerscheZahl: no

AntiSquid: why don't they remove all the "Unnamed Player" accounts? they are deleted anyway

ShlOk: plssssssss

AntiSquid: hey no clash links here

WINWINWIN: Or did they just not provide a nickname?

AntiSquid: not sure i didn't tell you already ShlOk

ShlOk: Why??

WINWINWIN: Its a spam

AntiSquid: and don't beg people to join either, if they want to play it's ok, but harassing people to play, especially clash, is a big NO

WINWINWIN: contest is more fun anyway

ShlOk: Oh sorry did not know.

Icebox: unless it's eulerscheZahl

Icebox: you can always invite him

Icebox: to play some clash

Icebox: I've heard he's always happy to get invites

eulerscheZahl: stupid "feature" of the platform

AntiSquid: in private, not in chat


cegprakash: hey eulerscheZahl what's ur win rate against me

cegprakash: u and me counter each other

cegprakash: as I have anti accident and u cause accidents

eulerscheZahl: how did you even reach legend?


eulerscheZahl: congrats, you surprised me once more

MSmits: it was an accident

AntiSquid: i beat boss when he was at #2 and needed just a bit of extra

MSmits: how does that make you feel AntiSquid

AntiSquid: idk

cegprakash: AntiSquid will be proud

MSmits: do you want to talk about it

cegprakash: of his mate

AntiSquid: well more like saving someone from a sinking ship while i am still drowning i guess MSmits

cegprakash: when I win this contest

MSmits: thats a good way to look at it I guess

AntiSquid: lol ok ceg do it then

MSmits: AntiSquid maybe ceg will end 1 place above me and we can commiserate together AntiSquid

AntiSquid: at least annoy people in top 10 legend with your bot

cegprakash: see I was above kovi 2 days back

cegprakash: and kovi is #6 now

cegprakash: first I'm gonna increase my simulations as it's so less

cegprakash: I only do like 1000 sims

WINWINWIN: I thought CPP does not need to be optimized that much?

AntiSquid: ok then not time to waste in chat ceg go do it

AntiSquid: scramble the top 10

MSmits: I get a million sims in turn 1 :P

pde-bakk: What is legend like now? Are you just trying to counter the other top strategies?

MSmits: dont need optimization no

AntiSquid: i didn't write a sim this time

AntiSquid: well not complete sim anyway

Icebox: 1000 sims but 20 depth? :thinking:

cegprakash: yes Icebox

cegprakash: :D

AntiSquid: feels like you're always forced to write a bloody sim

pde-bakk: @MSmits Ill probably fail but im coming for that nr1 Dutch spot! ;)

cegprakash: + 1000 more for mutations

eulerscheZahl: some like some aggressive pruning

WINWINWIN: isnt 20000 pretty good cegprakash?

lifetimeLearner007: seems it is not enough for him :p

MSmits: pde-bakk you mean in legend or overall?

cegprakash: WINWINWIN turn 1 sims doesn't matter

cegprakash: u are going to speed anyways

MSmits: in contest or overall i mean

pde-bakk: overall

pde-bakk: have yet to crack legend

MSmits: oh ok

WINWINWIN: Hmm, speed on turn 1, will try that

cegprakash: no no don't enforce it

cegprakash: sometimes u shouldn't speed

MSmits: I dont really go for maximum CP usually. I spend much time on the same arena to get as high as possible. I have many games untouched

lifetimeLearner007: how many sims r u getting in subsequent turns, cegprakash?

cegprakash: have like a 99% probablity of speed

cegprakash: or 90%

cegprakash: on turn 1

WINWINWIN: are you using the fact that the map is symmetric in tracking?

MSmits: could probably get 20k cp in 2 weeks if i did some of these older ones

cegprakash: told you only 1000 lifetimeLearner007

lifetimeLearner007: ok, i thought it was for 1st turn

Doju: I have no idea how to set my constants :(

Doju: Seems like every combination is a losing one

cegprakash: I have only 3 variables in my eval

cegprakash: life, pellets and distance

cegprakash: simple the better

Doju: Well you have to give things weights at some point

cegprakash: but only 3

cegprakash: not as complex as other games

Doju: ehh

cegprakash: and I use floats

Icebox: you can always simplify at the cost of performance

Doju: i have weights for how much value pellets get from being close to other pellets, how much that should decrease at distance, how much should my pacs care about distance, how much my pacs care about uncertainty, how uncertain the pellets get

Icebox: you could have literally 1 int: 1 for win state, 0 for not finished and -1 for loss state. With 200 depth you'd have a perfect bot

Doju: i'm not simulating

cegprakash: Icebox MCTS can do that

cegprakash: MSmits is probably using MCTS

cegprakash: :D

WINWINWIN: Skrill taken a considerable lead

Skril: Seems to be luck, will drop soon ;-)

Doju: Seriously my old thing of "go to closest pellet unless a super pellet is within a reasonable distance" got me to rank 10 or something but this varies between rank 400 and 700

Doju: maybe i'll just do that then

cegprakash: oh sheet I just lost a beautiful seed

tobk: aw, heck, Gold boss is random again..

Doju: nooo

Doju: oh, gold boss

Doju: i dont care about that nevermind xd

tobk: so much for "oh, why did my bot do this thing, let's add some debugging output and NOOOOOO!"

Default avatar.png ChooJeremy: Is there a way to increase the amount of text shown in the standard error stream?

Default avatar.png ChooJeremy: I'm printing 15 lines but only 3 are being displayed

Icebox: there's a char limit

Icebox: that you're probably hitting with your 3 lines

Icebox: and no, there isn't

Default avatar.png ChooJeremy: Is there a way to increase the limit?

Default avatar.png ChooJeremy: oh

WINWINWIN: @ChooJeremy You can copy paste the input for that turn into a local and run it

WINWINWIN: that way you can see all lines

Default avatar.png ChooJeremy: That sounds painful

Default avatar.png ChooJeremy: but I'll try

Default avatar.png ChooJeremy: very painful actually

Default avatar.png ChooJeremy: need to emulate previous states :/

WINWINWIN: :D MadKnight taught me that

WINWINWIN: It is painful

NickStahl: doju

Doju: Yes?

Nerchio: where can i provide seed to play on?

eulerscheZahl: settings -> expert mode

NickStahl: Still no gold? :)

Nerchio: i know i have it

Nerchio: but where

eulerscheZahl: then at the players selection: options -> manual

Doju: Still no gold... Trying to tweak the constant (of which i have rather many) NickStahl

cegprakash: eulerscheZahl when fixing timeouts

eulerscheZahl: i thought i did?


eulerscheZahl: games parsed: 113 timeouts found: 1

eulerscheZahl: that's an IDE match, doesn't matter

NickStahl: You will get it somehow! I believe in you :)

eulerscheZahl: C# has release mode on submit. IDE crashes are fine

Doju: constants* and i have no idea which way to tweak them

cegprakash: why so aggressive eulerscheZahl give 2 ms for us

cegprakash: u not letting us counteer u

eulerscheZahl: i'm not using a timer

eulerscheZahl: fixed search depth which works on submit

eulerscheZahl: sometimes fails in the IDE

cegprakash: oh

cegprakash: I have variable depth

AntiSquid: doju at this points maybe just go to discord and watch the streamers, thibpat basically leaked pretty much most important bits, should get gold at least with that info

AntiSquid: maybe it's enough for legend too

Doju: AntiSquid hm, I don't really want to get there by copying others

AntiSquid: you don't need to copy and i don't see how you can copy

Doju: i think this is a good system but i just need to tweak it

AntiSquid: just see the ideas leaked

Doju: well yeah :/

Cappefra: I don't get why it's not ok to put code on github but it is ok to stream it

Cappefra: doesn't make any sense to me

Doju: although i was already at like rank 10 with my stupid bot

WINWINWIN: People like cegprakash only stream basic code

Icebox: :D

cegprakash: WINWINWIN that's because I don't want u stare me debug all the time

cegprakash: It's not like I don't want to

WINWINWIN: they keep the good code to themselve

cegprakash: what nooooo that's not the intention

WINWINWIN: cegprakash dont understand you?

WINWINWIN: It should be :)

cegprakash: u are saying I'm selfish?

WINWINWIN: No, but it would be a disaster if you gave good ideas to others :)

cegprakash: here u go

cegprakash: my full strat so far


WINWINWIN: Cant implement it anyway :)

AntiSquid: i am doing all of that though

AntiSquid: maybe bugged though, def not fully implemented

lifetimeLearner007: me too, yet stuck in bronze. i guess there r mre bugs

AntiSquid: ceg you have complete sim ?

cegprakash: yes AntiSquid

AntiSquid: aha

AntiSquid: i don't handle some corner cases

lifetimeLearner007: whats a complete sim? how is it different from normal sim?

AntiSquid: define normal

lifetimeLearner007: idk

lifetimeLearner007: :P

AntiSquid: then idk the answer to your question

AntiSquid: is this some hidden info question? not in mood for one

EvModder: hey AntiSquid how u doing :)

AntiSquid: (riddle)

AntiSquid: yes, never been better before, how are you

lifetimeLearner007: when he said complete sim, i thought mayb there are other kinds of sims. so asked.

EvModder: doing good!

AntiSquid: well my simulation is incomplete lifetimeLearner007

AntiSquid: was hoping to cheese a higher rank easily

Cappefra: I don't know what you mean by normal but I would say a complete sim is one where you don't make your move until you have simulated a turn in every aspect of it

AntiSquid: because after playing ooc and utg back to back i am not 100% into playing another hidden info game

Cappefra: meaning the opponents "moves" as well and so on

Kellthazar: Is there any algo without simulations (pure heuristics) on legend?

Cappefra: like my sim is not complete cause I don't take into account a bunch of things

lifetimeLearner007: hmmm

AntiSquid: mhm

Default avatar.png SujalAI: Can someone explain what's happening here:

Default avatar.png SujalAI: I'm in wood 1

WINWINWIN: What are your ouputs?

AntiSquid: you're standing still most of your turns

lifetimeLearner007: u r moving only 1 pac utmost

AntiSquid: you can click ..... and check his outputs WINWINWIN

Scarfield: you need to output like "MOVE 0 25 6|MOVE 1 1 3|MOVE 2 31 13"

WINWINWIN: Is it a blank line or move to your own positions?

pde-bakk: @SujaAI youre only moving 1 pac per turn, your 3 commands should be put on the same line and only a newline after that

Scarfield: when you have more pacs, and you are telling your pacs to move to the cell they are already in somethimes

AntiSquid: also most important detail people forgot to mention, you're losing the game


EvModder: lol

lifetimeLearner007: lol

Scarfield: yes, dont lose, ez win

Default avatar.png SujalAI: Should the commands of all my pacs be on the same line?

pde-bakk: yes

Scarfield: yes same string

Scarfield: MOVE 0 25 6|MOVE 1 1 3|MOVE 2 31 13

WINWINWIN: Yes, joined by the Pipe symbol


pde-bakk: like Scarfield said

Default avatar.png SujalAI: Oh no wonder

Scarfield: :)

pde-bakk: you can also make them say something by doing MOVE 0 25 6 "msg"|MOVE 1 1 3 "msg"|MOVE 2 31 13 "msg

Default avatar.png SujalAI:

Default avatar.png SujalAI: can someone tell me what's wrong with this code:

Default avatar.png SujalAI:

Scarfield: dont know the language, but do you need the splice?

Default avatar.png SujalAI: I need to remove the final pipe symbol, that's what the splice is for

Default avatar.png SujalAI: It says move.splice is not a function

RoboStac: you can have an extra | on the end without a problem

Default avatar.png SujalAI: Ok

Neumann: Peudoki going strong

Default avatar.png SujalAI: The problem was that it should be slice not splice

Default avatar.png SujalAI: Can someone tell me why the top left pac behaves like this after turn 40:

AntiSquid: extra | at the start works too

Default avatar.png SujalAI: My logic is that I just find the closest pellet

RoboStac: because you are doing closest ignorning walls as you move towards one the other becomes closer

RoboStac: so you move back

AntiSquid: political sciences help with bot programming skills somehow :thinking: AutomatonNN what do you think

Default avatar.png SujalAI: Oh, how can I fix that?

AutomatonNN: congratz

ShlOk: @ Sujal kis grade me ho??

pde-bakk: you could pathfind and save where your pac is expecting to move for example

Scarfield: use a BFS function to find the nearest pellet. Essetially navigating areound the walls, finding the shortest path to the nearest pellet, and not just the one with the smallest "manhattan" distance

Default avatar.png SujalAI: @Shlok going to 9th standard

ShlOk: i m in 10th

Default avatar.png SujalAI: What's a BFS function?

Scarfield: google it :) but breadth first search

ShlOk: @ Sujal kitne saal se coding kr rhe??

AntiSquid: please click #in for indian chat

Default avatar.png SujalAI: @Shlok come to indian chat

AntiSquid: oh that's still english, nvm i forget india has lots of languages

MattSOrme: I can beat the gold boss, but the players between me and the boss are being a pain and not letting me win

Braykin08: I feel the same. currently 14th, more win than losses, but won't get up

Scarfield: yea the leaderboard gets weird often, yesterday i was 150th in bronze, logged in today to be 500th in silver lol

Default avatar.png SujalAI: @Scarfield can I use A* instead of BFS

AntiSquid: gold boss isn't strongest boss in gold :D

AntiSquid: strongest bot *

wlesavo: im beating #1 sometimes but this players in legend so annoying, dont let me to come up there and beat him

Scarfield: i never used a* myself, but BFS should be simpler, and no need to use a* for such small a grid as this as far as i knoe

Scarfield: know*

MattSOrme: Do some people have something like enemy play style detection? Feel like that would only work, if you could store data across games, and you played the same person multiple times

Default avatar.png SujalAI: Will it time out if I use BFS, since it scan the whole area

Doju: It won't

Doju: as long as you do it right

Braykin08: I guess any online requests will take too long haha. Maybe in the first 1000ms

MattSOrme: I implemented 1 BFS that would go until i timed it out. Then i re-implemented it and now its 0-2ms

Implementation is key

NickStahl: MattSOrme you could check how your opponent reacts in the first few rounds and change your strategy for the later rounds in case same situation occurs again. But not sure if it's easy to implement :)

MSmits: MattSOrme play style detection is rare, but happens sometimes in contests

MSmits: last contest some people detected whether someone only did 0 distance silences (you could go up to 4), in that case it was easy to track them

MSmits: but you cant store data between battles

MSmits: so it has to happen during the course of the game

Braykin08: I have some persistent data in a game to see how you handle collisions, i.e. do you let them pass or keep bumping or do you switch to the stronger/weaker type.

eulerscheZahl: *cough* botters of the galaxy *cough*

MSmits: never done that yet

Icebox: I actually had a very good playstyle detection in CR

MattSOrme: yeah, its not something im gonna do. But would be interesting if someone is tracking enemies who "counter-switch" for example and using that against them

Braykin08: I do it then.

MSmits: Code royale Icebox?

Icebox: yeah

eulerscheZahl: crystal rush

Icebox: code royale

eulerscheZahl: crystal rush

RoboStac: actually both were places where it was pretty useful

Icebox: completely different heuristics for people using giants, for people spamming towers etc

eulerscheZahl: and i'm just trolling

Scarfield: should trolling be recharacterised as frogging :thinking:

MSmits: Icebox sounds good. My bot was mostly hardcoded build orders + knight avoidance code. I didn't do fancy stuff like that

tobk: oh my, just implemented trapping, but now my last submit (which was probably a rather lucky one) is slowly creeping up Gold... resubmit or just wait? :anguished:

MSmits: it's still safe to submit i think. Plenty of creeping left to come

MSmits: besides you'll be more sorry if you never submitted this code

tobk: first submit of that bot was G70, second G250, third G50

Braykin08: In 17h hours, will the submit stop but playing continue for a bit, or will the standing at that time be the final one?

tobk: crept up to G30 from yesterday evening and to G20 while I was coding the new feature

MSmits: all submits will end first

MSmits: then the standign will be final for gold and down

RoboStac: it'll wait till everyone hits 100% and then lots of extra games will play in legend

MSmits: top 100 legend will be recalculated i think? Or the full legend?

Braykin08: It's the same thing lol

MSmits: it is now

AntiSquid: 89 legend wow .

Default avatar.png SujalAI: Can someone give me a strat for bronze

pde-bakk: full legend i believe

eulerscheZahl: min(100, legend size)

tobk: beating bronze or getting into it?

Braykin08: Man, 13th in gold. Gotta get that legend

MSmits: ah, i remembered correctly then

Default avatar.png SujalAI: beating bronze

MSmits: 13th can be very far away from boss. Whats the rating difference Braykin08?

eulerscheZahl: did it on spot when i broke my BotG bot: 98 before recalc

Braykin08: about 2 points

MSmits: not that far then

MSmits: you do still need some improvement to beat him though

Braykin08: 26.61 to 24.82

Braykin08: Working on it lol

Default avatar.png SujalAI: Can someone tell me how to beat bronze

MattSOrme: ugh, another random enemy that i have to repeat until it hits the same crash

MSmits: eulerscheZahl your final botg bot was broken?

MSmits: or did you contribute?

eulerscheZahl: kill switch

ZarthaxX: 1.8

Yasser: isn't anyone having an issue with compilation?? I see the test results are negative without showing what's the error.. Then when I send it to IDE, it works.

eulerscheZahl: wanted to see how far i can climb in the recalc if i start low

eulerscheZahl: my actual rank was around 40

MSmits: how far did you climb?

eulerscheZahl: went from 98 to 73 i think

MSmits: sad

eulerscheZahl: for the science :D

MSmits: that's what i'll say if i end bottom legend

MSmits: it's all science

eulerscheZahl: but that game was random, hard to tell if bad recalc. i did poorly against meele opponents

eulerscheZahl: and when there are a lot of them in your range...

MSmits: how much lines of code for that game?

MSmits: many

eulerscheZahl: botg?

MSmits: yes

MSmits: i seem to remember you guys saying the sim is very big

AntiSquid: probably need the contest to run for longer

eulerscheZahl: 597 lines

AntiSquid: locm got its month

MSmits: oh nice, thats not much for you at all

MSmits: noone spent a month on locam

eulerscheZahl: i would have rage quitted

eulerscheZahl: actually i did at the end of botg

MSmits: I was in the Efteling for a quarter of locam :)

Yasser: @codingame

MSmits: thinking of draw orders while upside down in a rollercoaster

eulerscheZahl: :D

AntiSquid: the rollercoaster wasn't intense enough then i guess

MSmits: or maybe draw orders were really compelling

AntiSquid: or you were trying to think of something else to look less scared?

MattSOrme: i don't even see any glaring bugs in what i've submitted, so just gonna submit again haha. need more matches to check

MSmits: hehe nah, they dont scare me, they hurt me mostly and I get queasy

MattSOrme: Theres def improvement, but too advanced for what i can be bothered with today

AntiSquid: do you remember the name of the coaster MSmits ?


eulerscheZahl: he wants to sacrifice a multiplayer tear him, feather him!

MSmits: he's suggesting something you can already do through github

MSmits: even though thats not allowed

eulerscheZahl: i guess he wants a few PHP bots

AntiSquid: i guess it depends on the coaster, that one looks quite mild MSmits


MSmits: he can just solve space maze and see other people's solutions

eulerscheZahl: 3x C#, 1x Python

eulerscheZahl: no PHP

MSmits: AntiSquid yeah its pretty old too

RoboStac: there is a go solution too

eulerscheZahl: you solved it twice?

RoboStac: no, I've only done go

MSmits: plenty of other puzzles that require real searches arent there?

MSmits: or at least a few?

eulerscheZahl: my bad. no python

RoboStac: optimising that was bad enough, no idea if python is even possible

eulerscheZahl: agreed. was a struggle with C#

MSmits: i think that is what you can learn from other people's code mostly, how to structure it and how to code the searches. Most other stuff is specific to each multi and for that, a post mortem thread is enough

dbdr: OK, I wrote a new bot, let's see what it does :)

eulerscheZahl: too bad there was no proper review on the puzzle

MattSOrme: dbdr, how new? scratch or just some fixes?

wlesavo: dbdr is it completele new?

dbdr: mostly scratch

wlesavo: wow

wlesavo: nice

MSmits: dbdr did you test it vs your old version?

dbdr: started this morning. not sure there's enough time, but let's see

RoboStac: though I did finally get it to always solve on the first turn and not need to wiggle the car about to get more time

MSmits: that's funny

dbdr: I've never ran :)

wlesavo: dam robo ruining my hopes, ill still try it, at least to solve some percent of cases

MSmits: wiggling for more calculation time :)

RoboStac: there may well be a decent way wlesavo

RoboStac: just the way I chose wouldn't work

eulerscheZahl: illedan solved 1 level offline and hardcoded that validator

RoboStac: I actually passed all the validators fairly easily, it was test 22 that caused me problems

RoboStac: so I could have just left it alone

RoboStac: but it was annoying me

eulerscheZahl: my respect for solving it. definitely one of the harder puzzles

wlesavo: it is not always possible to wiggle car around though, right?

RoboStac: no, but it was on test 22

RoboStac: I imagine theres nearly always some stable state you can get too

MSmits: what is the difficulty with this puzzle eulerscheZahl, if you can say without having to write too much

eulerscheZahl: just a hell lot of states. and hard to tell if you are any closer to the solution with a move

MSmits: ah I see

MattSOrme: getting a timeout, but no explanation :'(

AntiSquid: MattSOrme you can narrow down the location of the problem code by added debug output lines

AntiSquid: for me at least it worked easily, since it printed the debug before the timeout section started

wlesavo: wow, my bot finally have around 50% wr and can climb a little

RoboStac: yay, #1 (I'll just ignore the fact that it's only due to the people above me resubmitting)

dbdr: gg wlesavo :)

eulerscheZahl: screenshot time?

AntiSquid: screenshot for PM

Kukiss: also MattSOrme you might not see the error information if you print out too much information. At least I noticed it with Python

MattSOrme: AntiSquad yeah i do that, but this time i don't even know where to start

wlesavo: thx dbdr, being at the very bottom of legend feels bad :slight_smile:

MattSOrme: Kukiss I turned off my debug printing, and still timing out

dbdr: better than top of gold, I would say

wlesavo: sure

Kukiss: hard to say the reason then :/

AntiSquid: but but but ... there's often bottom legend bots worse than top gold bots!

MattSOrme: yup. Gonna have to go hunting

wlesavo: AntiSquid mine probably is

MattSOrme: Talk about making 1 guy do all the work

pb4: "Most other stuff is specific to each multi and for that, a post mortem thread is enough " --> disagree, I did learn a lot by reading other people's codes

MattSOrme: OOF. winning by 1 pellet with no moving pacs cos a game hit the 200 round timeout when a pac couldn't find the pellets

pb4: though it's better just to ask for that person's code instead of sacrificing a multi...

eulerscheZahl: or search on github

pb4: or that too :)

pb4: Learned a lot from kimiyuki's hypersonic code

eulerscheZahl: for the asking part: i guess your success depends on your previous acheivements

cegprakash: omg RoboStac

eulerscheZahl: if you would ask me for a bot: sure, here it is if some new guy asks me: probably not

eulerscheZahl: so you have to be good to get better

eulerscheZahl: that cow is climbing a lot. saw it around rank 15 this morning. no submit since

MattSOrme: Seems the way to level up in this game is to let others push you up

eulerscheZahl: or be really good/lucky

eulerscheZahl: some users consistently submit into top5

cegprakash: eulerscheZahl why hiding ur best bot

eulerscheZahl: sadly this is my best

Yasser: unfortunately, it's not possible to continue this contest due to a bug in codingame for Groovy language.

eulerscheZahl: so contest is over, we all have to stop now?

AntiSquid: so it isn't so groovy afterall

Cappefra: lol guys

reCurse: Oh wow chokudai is in the contest. Didn't even notice

AntiSquid: he entered yesterday

ZarthaxX: started??

wlesavo: yes

AntiSquid: didn't seem like he even needed much time

ZarthaxX: he got to 14 and startedyesterday?

AntiSquid: apparently

wlesavo: exactly

reCurse: He's another competitive programming legend so not surprising

ZarthaxX: how the f lol

AntiSquid: i am surprised he stopped there

MattSOrme: If you've done loads of these before, probably much easier to get the right framework, or copy old code in


AntiSquid: (Some of the people who are submitting have dropped, so it's really low)

AntiSquid: google translate :thinking: is this contest really low skilled or what does he mean

Cappefra: the most frustrating thing ever is when correcting a bug makes your bot do worse

Cappefra: wtf

Chkoupinator: is codingame using C++20 or C++17?

reCurse: I think he means that he's not as high as shown because the others on top are submitting, so at the bottom

struct: 17

reCurse: C++17

Chkoupinator: thanks

AntiSquid: I'm doing Codingame, // It's difficult, so later // Because it is troublesome There are such descriptions everywhere in the source code ... w

Default avatar.png SujalAI: Can someone help me in beating bronze

AntiSquid: w = lol

AntiSquid: that's all i know

reCurse: And he did start 2 days ago

struct: AntiSquid the last sentece is wrong

reCurse: Interesting

Default avatar.png SujalAI: Can someone help me in beating bronze

AntiSquid: ya ok, but i don't know japanesu struct .

struct: Me neither

reCurse: You just need to be creative with the translations

struct: Just translated

reCurse: And you get it

AntiSquid: so he is not making fun of the referee ?

struct: If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us at

reCurse: No

Default avatar.png SujalAI: Please help me :sob:

reCurse: He's commenting on his code

wlesavo: AntiSquid why would you think so

struct: Maybe im translating wrong one

AntiSquid: ah his own bot comments

reCurse: Yes

AntiSquid: wlesavo was thinking of UTG referee when i wrote that

AntiSquid: didn't check the pacman one

wlesavo: lol

JasperV: do you have vision in the corridor where left and right side are connected?

AntiSquid: yes

struct: reCurse he mentioned you on twitter

reCurse: Nice troll

struct: who?

reCurse: You

AntiSquid: the twitter post or struct's msg ?

AntiSquid: aha


eulerscheZahl: :D

reCurse: He tweets instead of chatting? lol

AntiSquid: maybe he can translate his sentences then if he sees us struggling? chodukai please

wlesavo: lol

wlesavo: he was on chat yeasterday

AntiSquid: we need to join in and have a twitter battle

reCurse: Nah chokudai it's just rumors I'm not that good

eulerscheZahl: who is that reCurse?

cegprakash: oh no

chokudai: I'm very bad at English so chatting is difficult for me. X(

AntiSquid: (ReCurse-san, wasn't he really strong as far as I heard the rumor?)

AntiSquid: recurse-san

eulerscheZahl: the struggle with English seems to be common among our Japanese competitors, isn't it?

struct: meanwhile yandex translation (as long as you hear the rumor that Ms. reCurse was not a strong person?)

reCurse: It's a struggle amongst many Japanese as far as I know

AntiSquid: he is not on the leaderboard, obv not strong chodukai

Icebox: they don't need our inferior language

AntiSquid: "our"

Icebox: *soviet hymn starts playing*

reCurse: But they still have much better english than most westerners at japanese

eulerscheZahl: a friend was in japan once. asked people how to get to a certain place and such. everyone trying to help but he didn't understand a word

AntiSquid: because it's harder to learn japanaese

reCurse: Yeah pretty much my experience too

AntiSquid: and 3 alphabets

reCurse: Mostly getting by with signs

eulerscheZahl: except for that one person. he was taking pictures and she got mad for violating personal rights with him taking pictures. the only english speaking person also was the only unfriendly

lifetimeLearner007: Hey guys, can someone give me suggestions on scoring system? On what basis do I score a state in this game? I'm running monte carlo sim

AntiSquid: i use google translate with text recognition, worked alright even in china

lifetimeLearner007: pac count, no.of pellets, pellet points current score, what else?

cegprakash: may be it's time for me to add pellet probability

eulerscheZahl: is it a problem for contests like codejam, when you aren't fluent in English?

cegprakash: I don't know how hard it is though

cegprakash: yesterday euler was posting some probability image with some pellets having > 1 prob

eulerscheZahl: fixed that bug

eulerscheZahl: also the negative probabilities that made me run away from some cells

Scarfield: pacs needed to give 110% to eat them

reCurse: There's a difference between getting by and being fluent

wlesavo: spooky cells

reCurse: With enough time on google translate I could figure out how to do raic for example

cegprakash: i just gave some performance boost to my bot I now get 10K sims

reCurse: It's a pain but it works

eulerscheZahl: worked surprisingly well on RAIC

eulerscheZahl: except for the text in images

reCurse: OCR

eulerscheZahl: I asked MK to translate me something

AntiSquid: no

Scarfield: "fix it"

reCurse: But was it worth the price?

AntiSquid: google translate doesn't fix ambiguity in text

reCurse: j/k

eulerscheZahl: he was helpful

AntiSquid: if you like free t-shirts i guess

Scarfield: sure, he helped me a lot when i started here and was suggested to do CSB xD he also said fix it a lot, about 50/50

eulerscheZahl: mini RAIC wasn't even too bad game-wise

eulerscheZahl: a little annoying that it was only about conquering, not defending

eulerscheZahl: and 6 players is chaotic

eulerscheZahl: and they screwed up the finals

eulerscheZahl: planned to do each vs each with 12 finalists

eulerscheZahl: that is 12 choose 6 matches to play

eulerscheZahl: somehow it started as 1 vs 1, they quickly cancelled it

eulerscheZahl: and then just generated random matchups instead of full round robin

eulerscheZahl: i got 7th on a coinflip (4-6th got a HDD)

AntiSquid: Scarfield be honest, MadKnight helping with CSB is more like forced manual labour

Scarfield: slavory with extra steps :thinking:

Default avatar.png SujalAI: Please help me with bronze league

AntiSquid: no

Default avatar.png SujalAI: :cry:

MindControler: Please help me with gold league

AntiSquid: click discord button and watch streams, lots of info there SujalAI

MindControler: Can someone submit a lot and beat boss a lot?

struct: :rofl:

eulerscheZahl: be the change you want to see

AntiSquid: sure lets wreck legend

AntiSquid: they seem too comfortable with reduced randomness

cegprakash: eulerscheZahl how do u find the no. of games timed out on arena

AntiSquid: download replays

cegprakash: I just found 1 game timed out on arena and I'm worried if I have a bug

AntiSquid: it shows timeout

wlesavo: cegprakash

AntiSquid: or 1by1 also works

eulerscheZahl: ./ && ./

eulerscheZahl: games parsed: 209 timeouts found: 3

reCurse: Is that "a" timeout or "his" timeout though.

AntiSquid: cegprakash 04:50PM I just found 1 game timed out on arena and I'm worried if I have a bug 100% sure you have a bug

eulerscheZahl: i only check for my own timeouts


WINWINWIN: cegprakash

WINWINWIN: u played y-kawano twice

WINWINWIN: both timeouts

WINWINWIN: other than that, no others

cegprakash: how did u find

cegprakash: :O

AntiSquid: game is rigged, letting kawano win /s

WINWINWIN: Timeouts are easy to find


WINWINWIN: just look for short matches, takes like a minute to check all replays

cegprakash: eulerscheZahl gimme that script :O

eulerscheZahl: no

cegprakash: plz?

eulerscheZahl: check wlesavo's link

eulerscheZahl: that tells you how to write your own script

Default avatar.png SujalAI: Can someone tell me the code to store all your pacs and the enemy pacs. Even those which are not visible.

AntiSquid: look at streams on twitch or whatever

AntiSquid: it shows everything

cegprakash: on which tab should I got to the XHR?

AntiSquid: instafluff even shared his js and intended to stream all the way to legend

struct: network cegprakash

cegprakash: I mean which url

cegprakash: last battles page?

cegprakash: or I have to open the replay and then do inspect element

AntiSquid: thank me later

AntiSquid: or F12 and suffer through hell

Default avatar.png SujalAI: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

WINWINWIN: How did you do that SujalAI?

AntiSquid: /flip

WINWINWIN: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻


AntiSquid: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Default avatar.png **SujalAI slaps AntiSquid around a bit with a large fishbot

cegprakash: what do I do now /flip

cegprakash: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

eulerscheZahl: cegprakash how do you access your last battles my hand? when not logged in

AntiSquid: SujalAI i gave you all the best advice you needed

Scarfield: SujalAI squids advice is good

AntiSquid: so quiet

eulerscheZahl: try to take the same path and analyze the network traffic

Default avatar.png SujalAI: You gave me no advice

cegprakash: eulerscheZahl I can't find that api call

**WINWINWIN loves AntiSquid`s advice

cegprakash: findInformationById when is it called

AntiSquid: SujalAI

Default avatar.png SujalAI: At least tell me how to store all the pacs even those which are not visible

AntiSquid: which leads to

icecream17: sujal what language

cegprakash: is there a postman or something

Default avatar.png SujalAI: JS

AntiSquid: SujalAI how you store them is up to you

struct: ceg go to leaderboard

struct: press last battles on your name

Default avatar.png SujalAI: How do I acces the ones which are not visible

struct: you cant

AntiSquid: SujalAI this guy streamed JS and shows starter code

WINWINWIN: That is what all the Legend guys are working on

AntiSquid: how do i initiate enemy timeout AutomatonNN ?

AutomatonNN: I have more than that and it doesn't work as it is

AntiSquid: in JS AutomatonNN

AutomatonNN: what is the most problem with the new contest and the code is wrong?

Scarfield: you dont get input of pacs that arent visible, but you can choose to ignore them or assume where they moved, start with ignoring them i would advice

Uljahn: enemy pacs' positions are symmetrical on the first turn

cegprakash: i found the API

cegprakash: what do I do now

AntiSquid: enjoy life

struct: I think you should focus on contest and figure that after it

Default avatar.png SujalAI: I quit, this sucks

AntiSquid: so do you

vtenneke: So ive faced the issue of timing out in battle but not when I send to the IDE. Anyone knows why this is?

Uljahn: different cpu type?

Scarfield: any random element to your code? or the opponent has random element, or ^

cegprakash: :"(

Uljahn: my bad, cpu type shouldn't matter if your timing is precise enough

reCurse: Most bots are not deterministic

reCurse: So it could be sheer luck

reCurse: Keep playing in the IDE until you encounter the timeout

reCurse: Unless you're coding in Rust or C#. Then you're out of luck.

WINWINWIN: wouldnt a timeout show up irrelevant of how the game proceeds?

cegprakash: I don't want to see all last battles by hand

reCurse: Some could. Some wouldn't.

reCurse: Can be literally anything

Default avatar.png **SujalAI What is this

Scarfield: he propably reached an edge case in his code, when there is a random element to one or both bots, its not certain the reason for the timeout will happen again even from the same seed

WINWINWIN: Understood, then nothing to do but submit again with a couple of debug messages?

reCurse: Or keep playing in the IDE until it shows up

reCurse: But yeah debug helps

reCurse: Serializing your bot state is even better

Uljahn: or maybe using the replay reproducer's output could help to recreate the same situation

reCurse: If his bot is stateless yeah sure

AntiSquid: compare older version of bot to your newer version, there's a chance it's newly added bug

reCurse: chance is the keyword here

reCurse: A lot of my stupidest bugs stuck around since the first version

AntiSquid: i have some like that too, still not sure why the bot works worse when one gets fixed

icecream17: all 10 wins. maybe ill finally beat bronze

reCurse: Because you optimized against that local minima

reCurse: It's always like that

AntiSquid: :(

Scarfield: its like Mr. Burns, all bugs keep the bot stable, but start fixing them and the other bugs will get room to kill :p

eulerscheZahl: 3 kills and still lost

eulerscheZahl: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Alshock: what dos in mean to serialize one's bot?

Default avatar.png **SujalAI slaps eulerscheZahl around a bit with a large fishbot

Csipcsirip: you waste too many pacman rouds in the endgame to trap opponent

icecream17: WHyyy. Everytime I even see myself in the top 100 for one second i lose twice

eulerscheZahl: more like cluelessly walking around, searching for the last pellets

eulerscheZahl: trapping randomly happens but i think i would have lost without it as well

Default avatar.png Xlos: wait how did you get that, where you can see the time you take each turn

eulerscheZahl: stopwatch or whatever it is in your language

eulerscheZahl: and then: MOVE id x y message

Default avatar.png Xlos: ? It's displayed on the screen so it wouldn't be a code thing right

Default avatar.png Xlos: I'm talking about in that replay

eulerscheZahl: you have to output your message along with your move command

Default avatar.png Xlos: There's a command to output a message?!?

eulerscheZahl: MOVE 0 28 11 |MOVE 1 31 2 |MOVE 2 16 7 |MOVE 3 9 5 |MOVE 4 29 6 34 ms

eulerscheZahl: the last part prints the time

Default avatar.png Xlos: Whaaa

eulerscheZahl: you can write a text to each of your pacmen

Default avatar.png Xlos: 10/10

Default avatar.png Xlos: Thanks a lot for that tip

Default avatar.png Xlos: In exchange I will give you the big brain observation I just came up with

eulerscheZahl: you make me curious

Default avatar.png Xlos: Always use speed at (odd, odd) coordinates

Default avatar.png Xlos: It seems that 3/4 way intersections only occur there

eulerscheZahl: so i won't waste turns at dead ends

Default avatar.png Xlos: Thus you don't run into vision problems

Default avatar.png Xlos: That too

Scarfield: hmm... big brain

icecream17: 60th!

eulerscheZahl: hm, let me try that offline vs my arena bot

Default avatar.png Xlos: This is the power of thinking on the toilet

kovi: depends on your overall strat


Cappefra: i was expecting something stupid tbh and then you come with this actual game-changing observation

kovi: if you trapper, this will be counterproductive

kovi: (been there...)

eulerscheZahl: i planned to limit my speed use a bit

eulerscheZahl: right now i only allow speed at the first step of my sim, not any deeper

eulerscheZahl: so i might speed while there's 1 pellet and then a dead end

eulerscheZahl: so changing that is on my list anyways

eulerscheZahl: so far arena: 19 Pacman: 17 draw: 4

eulerscheZahl: a little worse but in range of randomness

kovi: unlike parity, that specific case didnt worked for me for some reason

Default avatar.png Xlos: Hmm

Chkoupinator: anyone knows which file in the github gives the output every turn ?

eulerscheZahl: start with and track it from there

Chkoupinator: thanks

eulerscheZahl: SPEED at odd coords seems to be on par with always speeding

Cappefra: I would really like to figure out how to make that cgbenchmark work

eulerscheZahl: at least for my bot

wlesavo: for mine also seems not to make it worse

wlesavo: submitting it rn

eulerscheZahl: always allowing it in first and 2nd turn in my sim: arena: 22 Pacman: 11 draw: 4

eulerscheZahl: that's getting worse, hmm

icecream17: aww im not in top 1000 so cgstats doesnt work

eulerscheZahl: and the cow got pushed to #1 now :D

eulerscheZahl: feels so random

Default avatar.png ChooJeremy: I think the observation shouldn't be speed at (odd, odd)

kovi: it is weirdest ever

Default avatar.png ChooJeremy: because there are dead ends at (odd, odd) too

Default avatar.png Xlos: Interesting, thanks for testing

eulerscheZahl: worse than locam

Default avatar.png ChooJeremy: something like (1) prefer speed at intersections

Default avatar.png ChooJeremy: and (2) Observation: intersections always appear at (odd, odd) for some reason (how to abuse?)

Default avatar.png Xlos: I thought it would be much better since you get vision at every intersection

Default avatar.png Xlos: Maybe it's too conditional

eulerscheZahl: but sounds reasonable

Default avatar.png ChooJeremy: yeah but probably better to test for intersections (x+1, y), (x-1, y) (x, y+1), (x, y-1) rather than just odd, odd

Default avatar.png ChooJeremy: you're given the grid at the start

eulerscheZahl: speed at odd is fine. will make you end up on an intersection later

Scarfield: the idea seems good, but a search should find out by itself i think :)

eulerscheZahl: my search won't, pruning options

icecream17: Oh. When I speed i stay in the same position and think i collided

Scarfield: xD

Scarfield: "stop hitting yourself"

reCurse: Worse than locam? Such exaggeration

eulerscheZahl: sorry, i take that back

eulerscheZahl: pacman is still enjoyable to play for me

eulerscheZahl: locam was a pain

kovi: we were only talk about leaderboard randomness

reCurse: Even then

reCurse: locam was much more tight and random

eulerscheZahl: locam had a clear #1 (closet) and #2 (recurse)

kovi: in locam there was a clear top3

kovi: well yeah

kovi: royale in top5

eulerscheZahl: the cow submitted 12h ago, ranked around 15th

eulerscheZahl: now at #1

eulerscheZahl: pushed up all the way

reCurse: locam: 2.8pt in top30

kovi: i also made a top1 than a top10 pushed up top3 today

reCurse: pac: 5pt in top30

reCurse: I rest my case

kovi: that is the point, even 5 pt means nothing with 50-50%

eulerscheZahl: but a drifting of 3 points

reCurse: You think there was no such drifting during locam? :)

RoboStac: cow's cg stats are interesting

eulerscheZahl: i admit i wasn't really dedicated at locam

kovi: pointwise less, rankwise similar except top

kovi: top3

eulerscheZahl: so i can't tell how much locam was drifting

RoboStac: 50%+ against top few, less than 50% against those lower

eulerscheZahl: yeah. and as higher ranked players keep submitting...

CowZow: Hello! I was also surprised to find myself this high up...

eulerscheZahl: and for the final rerun you only play against close neighbors on the leaderboard

eulerscheZahl: we were too. congrats anyways :)

kovi: i fell 5->19

CowZow: ha, i don't think it will last. How did you find the stats vs other bots?


cegprakash: is 42 a nice seed for srand? I feel like changing seed can help

cegprakash: ppl started countering my seed

eulerscheZahl: do you believe in horoscopes too?

CowZow: ah interesting

kovi: yeah, not everything is 50-50

reCurse: This rerun will be a rollercoaster

kovi: i really dont know what to expect

reCurse: A rollercoaster

eulerscheZahl: and psyh o will disappear for another 4 years

kovi: even though i still bet on him, i even wonder how karliso will handle this randomness

kovi: phew it was a hard climb to 10th

eulerscheZahl: i don't even know if psyh o is really trying or just playing a bit for fun

Miarem: reCurse, because of your inactivity. codingGame thinks that Ubisoft is Ukrainian company : )

reCurse: It partly is

Cappefra: I think that's it for me

Cappefra: 140 gold is the best I can do apparently

eulerscheZahl: you will drop if you stop now


EvModder: the last one is my favorite of course

Miarem: i'm curious how the country of the company is defined

Miarem: most of them are global...

Cappefra: I'm out of ideas, literally any change I've made in the past 30 hours has made it worse and I eventually had to revert it

reCurse: Well isn't that the fun of globalization

reCurse: It's defined by whatever is most profitable for a specific case

eulerscheZahl: for tax reasons the headquarter shall be in Ireland now

AntiSquid: my rank fluctuates from 110 to 150 so hard to say anything about the final rank :D

reCurse: You will be below 100.

AntiSquid: Cappefra not sure it's worth trying harder anymore

AntiSquid: i am below 200 overall ...

AntiSquid: i mean not top 200

eulerscheZahl: 99 in legend already

cegprakash: what was ur best versions' rank AntiSquid

reCurse: Well you said hard to say anything

reCurse: I found it easy to say something :)

Chkoupinator: enemy pacs always spawn symmetrically to our pacs right?

AntiSquid: idk what my best version is cegprakash

eulerscheZahl: yes

Chkoupinator: thanc

cegprakash: my #40 bot few mins back is getting so badly rekt now

Miarem: there are so many participants... it won't affect much the final points

Chkoupinator: am I the only one to find the information summary lacking?

Scarfield: both positions and types Chkoupinator

cegprakash: donno what everyone added or everyone is stuck on bottom legend like me

AntiSquid: it does affect the final points a lot when mid gold orso Miarem

Chkoupinator: Scarfield thanks :D

AntiSquid: huge difference from top 50 to top 200 or even just top 100

Miarem: for 5k participants?

cegprakash: hey AntiSquid yes

wlesavo: that big brain thingy seems to work for my bot at least

AntiSquid: yes Miarem

EvModder: idk, i was 14 yesterday and now i'm 50ish, so i think there's a fair bit of flectuation

cegprakash: top 100 in gold probably already has dead player tracking

AntiSquid: 2k points diff, but w/e :/

cegprakash: what is gold boss' point now

EvModder: dead player tracking?

AntiSquid: or 3-4k ?

Zenoscave: My enemy prediction does awful

Zenoscave: Does attacking enemies work? I just avoid enemies if at all possible

eulerscheZahl: of course you can attack

eulerscheZahl: game i'm debugging right now:

Zenoscave: I mean is it worthwhile?

eulerscheZahl: 3 kills and still lost :D

eulerscheZahl: but kills were all in endgame

eulerscheZahl: and 2 of them were really nice

Default avatar.png ChooJeremy: If the enemy is smart and your attacking is just chasing the enemy without any guarantees of reaching it the enemy can just keep running and you'll never reach him

eulerscheZahl: in the replay i shared you can see 3 guaranteed kills

Zenoscave: So only go for traps then

Default avatar.png ChooJeremy: yup I know, was responding to Zenoscave

eulerscheZahl: still costs a few turns that you miss on harvesting

Zenoscave: Ok so scoring tuning for it is a good hope maybe

cegprakash: i'm changing my seed to a prime number

cegprakash: lets see if it works

Doju: Oh great, i'm controlling dead pacs again somehow

eulerscheZahl: switch them to rock first

Zenoscave: eulerscheZahl why Rock?

Zenoscave: that is completely arbitrary

Zenoscave: Like a prime seed


Zenoscave: lol

Tiberiu02: Will the leaderboard freeze exactly when the contest is over, or will it keep evaluating for a while to reach a stable state?

eulerscheZahl: finish pending submits

eulerscheZahl: including league promotions

eulerscheZahl: then a big rerun for top100

eulerscheZahl: everyone gets about 1000 matches

eulerscheZahl: takes a few hours to finish

eulerscheZahl: then the ranking is final

kovi: will it be 1000 only?

eulerscheZahl: every player starts 500 matches

kovi: considering the randomness more would be welcome

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: Wut Clyde can timeout?

eulerscheZahl: at the same time you can be chosen as opponent with equal probability

Numby: Can we keep submitting for fun after the competition is over or we have to wait for a while?

Tiberiu02: Wow nice to know

eulerscheZahl: i think the #1 player will even get less matches statistically, #6 will get more than 1000

eulerscheZahl: as opponent selection is in range +-5

eulerscheZahl: and there is no #-4 player fighting #1

eulerscheZahl: while #1 only has 5 opponents (2-6), giving more games to #6

Tiberiu02: Are these details written anywhere?

eulerscheZahl: there's an old forum post. but not much detail

eulerscheZahl: it's always like this for a few years

eulerscheZahl: with a 4 player game you get more battles (as you always start 500 yourself and get chosen as an opponent by others)

eulerscheZahl: can't find the forum post anymore

eulerscheZahl: but didn't say more than I just did now

eulerscheZahl: and pb4 might do his alternative ranking again

eulerscheZahl: which of course has no effect on prize awards


Default avatar.png SujalAI: My pacs are going for the same pellet what do I do?

Braykin08: Dont let them

Braykin08: By asking them politely (and programmatically) to not do it.

Default avatar.png SujalAI: Good idea

icecream17: possTargets.removeTheTargetAndStuffFunctionWithAReallyLongName


Default avatar.png SujalAI: What am I doing wrong in this replay:

Default avatar.png SujalAI:

eulerscheZahl: let's ignore that you suicide right into the opponent for a moment

eulerscheZahl: your scissors completely ignores the superpellets

Default avatar.png SujalAI: I am just going towards the closest pellet

eulerscheZahl: your rocks moves straight into the corner. that mean it has to go back and can't collect anything on that way

Default avatar.png SujalAI: And they switch when an enemy is close

Doju: Oh

eulerscheZahl: you don't use speed

Default avatar.png SujalAI: i've not

wlesavo: euler wow i completly missed that pbs alternative ranking, htx

Doju: i was weighting stuff in the inverse way that i should've been. Maybe that's the reason why my bot sucked

eulerscheZahl: i didn't miss it - I provided the data :P

AntiSquid: refactoring magically fixing a bug i wasn't aware of @_@

eulerscheZahl: for such an analysis you don't even have to download every single match. it's enough to load the last battles list

kovi: it depends on lucky roll + who is submitting

kovi: back to top5 again

eulerscheZahl: yeah, you kicked me out

eulerscheZahl: that will be a fun rerun tomorrow

Default avatar.png ashikujjaman: how can I play my bot with boss multiple time

.epsilon.: I got the clyde bot to time out...

AntiSquid: i got the gold bot to time out at least once

Default avatar.png SujalAI: How can I detect where the superpellets are?

AntiSquid: seems like if it can't track you properly then it times out :D

Braykin08: SujalAI when you read the pellet input, you know it's value. A superpellet is worth 10

ShannonNorris97: SujalAI, if you're looking through all pellets you can pick out the super ones because they have a value of 10 instead of 1

Default avatar.png SujalAI: Oh yeah i forgot we can see super pellets from anywhere

IAmNoob: I make a distance function which selects the pallet where to go

IAmNoob: depending of the value

fchris82: Why I can't go to higher leagues? I submitted my code, my pacmans win, but nothing happend. Just the same leagues.

IAmNoob: you have to defeat the boss

Default avatar.png SamuelTheBad: you have to be ranked higher than the boss AI for that league

fchris82: My rank is 1. If I see the last battles tab, Ranking order: 1. Me 2. Pinky

RoboStac: you have to wait for 100% battles to be complete too

RoboStac: on last battles it'll show your progress

Doju: Oh noooow we're talking

fchris82: AAaa, I can see. Battles in progress 86%

Doju: i was calculating a value for each cell but not actually including it in the final value

Doju: it's actually finally doing what it's supposed to be doing

Doju: leaving pellets at dead ends every now and then etc.

Doju: Flying up the ladder!

IAmNoob: :))

Zenoscave: Ladder is too random. Code that ranked ~100 can't climb above 300 now

AntiSquid: haha same issue here

AntiSquid: fixed a serious bug then decided it's clever to submit, now struggling

AntiSquid: we need to do our own tweets about our contest progression

Zenoscave: And I can't test improvements in this state

AntiSquid: nobody can

AntiSquid: it's more like lottery at this point what final rank i get

cegprakash: FrenchKiss is hiding his bot

AntiSquid: lol

Zenoscave: what league Ceg?

cegprakash: legend league.. he has submitted some dummy code and stays at #100

lifetimeLearner007: can u do <50 rank, cegprakash?

Default avatar.png ChooJeremy: Doju

cegprakash: lifetimeLearner007 no but I can do < 20

lifetimeLearner007: oooooohhh.. nice

IAmNoob: If i exit the tab and in the last few seconds i submited it is there a problem/will it stop?

cegprakash: already been top top 30-40 many times.. so real target for me is top 20

cegprakash: and then spam [CG]Thibaud for sending me my first T shirt

AntiSquid: you didn't get tshirt yet @_@

AntiSquid: ceg you need to try harder

lifetimeLearner007: this time there are no t-shirts i think

lifetimeLearner007: or am I wrong? lemme check

IAmNoob: Is there not a way to speed up the subtim?

AntiSquid: ah right no t-shirts this time cegprakash it seems

lifetimeLearner007: yep, no t-shirts

IAmNoob: Who knows

cegprakash: but if I get to top 20 they will give me

cegprakash: I'll have to believe on that

cegprakash: don't change my mind

AntiSquid: that's why i am not top 20 yet /s

lifetimeLearner007: yes... cool t-shirts are there cegparkash but for top 15. So get under 15 rank... (Y)

lifetimeLearner007: :thumbsup:

AntiSquid: where does it say?

lifetimeLearner007: :p

AntiSquid: didn't see any

IAmNoob: How old is CODE OF KUTULU?

lifetimeLearner007: really old

IAmNoob: i discoverd it now:))

AntiSquid: go to "compete > contests" scroll down and find it

Counterbalance: oct 2018

IAmNoob: and i like it

IAmNoob: it is really nice

NickStahl: found a bug in my code, I bet when I fix it it will result in so many new bugs that I rather keep this one :)

AntiSquid: kutulu was less random than this mess

IAmNoob: yes

lifetimeLearner007: haha.. yeah NickStahl. tell me about it

Counterbalance: s/oct/july/

IAmNoob: If i play nno

IAmNoob: now kutulu

IAmNoob: up says PAC MAN

IAmNoob: :)

lifetimeLearner007: I like Legends of Code and Magic and Code for Life

IAmNoob: I like Back to Code

eulerscheZahl: "already been top 30-40 many times"

NinjaDoggy: ok eulerscheZahl why you gotta do him like that

IAmNoob: :))))))

IAmNoob: lol

cegprakash: I mean in Spring Challenge eulerscheZahl

eulerscheZahl: sorry, couldn't resist :(

AntiSquid: he was talking about legend leaderboard lol

eulerscheZahl: ah

NinjaDoggy: what a dummy eulerscheZahl goin around making assumptions

Doju: Finally gold

NinjaDoggy: ok i needa shut up and get legend XD

struct: It was clear

eulerscheZahl: just casually reading the chat while submitting. not really paying attention

reCurse: I enjoyed the jab

Doju: turns out it's good to have your bot work like it's supposed to

NinjaDoggy: reCurse! :O hai

NinjaDoggy: why aren't u wrecking everyone in pacman

IAmNoob: It takes literally 5 minutes for just puts me in the top

eulerscheZahl: he's moving. or am i confusing something?

eulerscheZahl: relocate, that's the word

IAmNoob: I like the humor of eulerscheZahl

AntiSquid: ya chodu kai and psy ho even mentioned him, called him out, went to gym and exercised getting ready to fight reCurse but reCurse was a no show, wtf Automaton2000

Automaton2000: it's just a bunch of times

reCurse: Yeah I'm moving

NinjaDoggy: hm... your last contest was COIF

NinjaDoggy: that was like a year ago hm...

NickStahl: Congrats Doju!

reCurse: Time flies

Doju: ty

reCurse: I'm also a has been

eulerscheZahl: you are still actively chatting

eulerscheZahl: which i highly appreciate

reCurse: True

IAmNoob: If i will go in gold at a bot programming competition about how much XP would i earn?

NinjaDoggy: :O Inaniwa and Risus aboutta promote

struct: IAmNoob


IAmNoob: ?

NinjaDoggy: @IAmNoob whatever you already for woods,bronze,silver and gold

IAmNoob: ahhh

IAmNoob: ok

IAmNoob: thx

NinjaDoggy: X2

AntiSquid: legend is a safe space for like 20 bots so they don't drop back to half way gold

eulerscheZahl: not x 2

NinjaDoggy: yes X2

struct: no

NinjaDoggy: once in contest, once in multi

NinjaDoggy: no?

eulerscheZahl: contests are now moved to multiplayer section directly

struct: doe

NinjaDoggy: rip

reCurse: Recession hits everyone

struct: not rip

struct: its a good thing

eulerscheZahl: since unleash the geek aka crystal rush

NinjaDoggy: it is a good thing

NinjaDoggy: dont' need to save wood bots

eulerscheZahl: no more losing top bots

NinjaDoggy: ahh i haven't tried since COIF :(

reCurse: top bot :thinking:

AntiSquid: more struggle to reach same rank again

cegprakash: 9 wins in first 13 games

eulerscheZahl: many players didn't care to resubmit

cegprakash: looks like a good submit

cegprakash: :D

eulerscheZahl: even a few contest winners are missing

cegprakash: 12 in 15

NinjaDoggy: true!

cegprakash: go go #1

Inaniwa: I won all the first 10 races. But I still can't seem to be promoted

AntiSquid: cegprakash

NinjaDoggy: like closet AI saying F it after winning hearthstone

lifetimeLearner007: looking good prakash

AntiSquid: what percentage cegprakash ??

eulerscheZahl: closet cared enough to write a post mortem at least

cegprakash: 4%

eulerscheZahl: and romk a recently (about 2 months ago) finally submitted his hypersonic contest bot

NinjaDoggy: lol

struct: Nice, copy pasted bots going down

eulerscheZahl: that was my first contest in 2016

struct: hypersonic leaderboard quite different since I last saw it

struct: Never recall seeing karlis o in rank 1

IAmNoob: I hate people that copy paste bots or solutions

eulerscheZahl: he's there for a while already

IAmNoob: many work hard for them rank and comes those noobs which copy pasted and make better rank

NinjaDoggy: karliso rank 1 in a lot of multis...

IAmNoob: trash kids

dbf: I copy paste my bot from ide to cg websitefor every submit

IAmNoob: ok not that

IAmNoob: i mean from githib or youtube

IAmNoob: or other ways

lifetimeLearner007: u can use CGSync extension, dbf

Default avatar.png SujalAI: I want to amke a 2d array of all the pellets in the grid how do i do that?

lifetimeLearner007: have to rewrite from youtube, not copy paste right

Default avatar.png SujalAI: The logic is that everything other than a wall is a pellet

IAmNoob: ok

IAmNoob: try a boolean matrix

IAmNoob: or a struct with x, y

IAmNoob: a queue pair

IAmNoob: there are many ways

lifetimeLearner007: u've to manually create 2d array structure in JS, SujalAI. JS doesn't have inbuilt support for multidimentional arrays

Default avatar.png SujalAI: I don't know what mistake I'm doing, but I'm getting an empty array

Default avatar.png SujalAI: I know lifetimelearner

IAmNoob: you dont have to update every frame

Default avatar.png SujalAI: This is my code

IAmNoob: you know right?

Default avatar.png SujalAI:

IAmNoob: you make JS

Default avatar.png SujalAI: yes

IAmNoob: and you can not make 2D arrays

IAmNoob: you know right?

Default avatar.png SujalAI: I didn't make a 2d array

Default avatar.png SujalAI: I just made an array with all the pellet objects

IAmNoob: ok...

Default avatar.png SujalAI: I don't know what's wrong with it but it's making an empty array

lifetimeLearner007: j<row.length

lifetimeLearner007: not j<row, SujalAI

Default avatar.png SujalAI: oh yeah

IAmNoob: :))

IAmNoob: sneaky error

Default avatar.png SujalAI: How did I not see that

IAmNoob: sometimes that is how life work

lifetimeLearner007: cz JS is very friendly

lifetimeLearner007: :p

IAmNoob: I like how simple JS is

IAmNoob: compared to c++ or python

IAmNoob: or java

IAmNoob: JS is more friendly

Default avatar.png SujalAI: Python is almost useless without any modules

IAmNoob: i use sys

IAmNoob: but my main is c++

IAmNoob: i would like to try to learn C#

Kukiss: but you can import basic modules here for Python, like numpy

Default avatar.png SujalAI: My pac and the enemy are going for the same pellet so they are stuck in a loop

IAmNoob: i know

Default avatar.png SujalAI: How can i fix this?

IAmNoob: this is the main challenge:))

Default avatar.png Cence: You ceck if your position is still the last position

Default avatar.png Cence: *check

IAmNoob: try to check if the positions repeat

IAmNoob: and if so....

Default avatar.png SujalAI: But I think it's okay if I ignore it because we both lose one pac

IAmNoob: try a random position

IAmNoob: SujalAI league?

Default avatar.png SujalAI: bronze

IAmNoob: ok

IAmNoob: when you are gona evolve you gona see many bots that dont stuck

IAmNoob: i am bronze:((

IAmNoob: but i know

Default avatar.png SujalAI: I made an improvement to my code and I rank became worse

Default avatar.png SujalAI: I ahte it when that happens

AntiSquid: don't worry that happenes to everyone in this contest

IAmNoob: it is 50% random SujalAI soooo...

Default avatar.png SujalAI: How do I remove a specific element from an array in JS

Counterbalance: splice

AntiSquid: use the power of google

IAmNoob: :)))0

Default avatar.png SujalAI: My rank became much worse after the improvement

IAmNoob: this is the first rule

IAmNoob: If your code works dont toucjh it

IAmNoob: touch*

TidyMaze: hi, there is a quick chart to track score evolution in time (top 20). F5 for new data

Default avatar.png SujalAI: The array thing doesn't work for some reason

AntiSquid: what array thing ?

Csipcsirip: does any1 have a replay with a corridor kill possibility at the start of the game ?

Default avatar.png TheSkolar:

Csipcsirip: <3

Default avatar.png SujalAI: I made a function to remove elements from an array

Default avatar.png SujalAI: function remove(arr, ele){

   return arr.filter((val, ind, arr) => val!=ele);


Default avatar.png SujalAI: function remove(arr, ele){

   return arr.filter((val, ind, arr) => val!=ele);


Default avatar.png SujalAI: It works fine for arrays with numbers and strings

Counterbalance: val != ele might not work for {}

Default avatar.png SujalAI: But I have an array with Pellet objects and it doesn't work on that

cegprakash: #40 and 12 hours ticking..

cegprakash: I just need 40 more iffs

cegprakash: to reach #1

Counterbalance: how do you get ele? do you know the index in the array? If so, just do arr.splice(index, 1)

Default avatar.png SujalAI: I made an array which takes everything other than a wall as a pellet, now I need to remove the pellet objects which are in the place of a pac

Default avatar.png SujalAI: because a pellet is gone when a pac is in its location

Default avatar.png SujalAI: I don't know the index

cegprakash: don't delete an element from array it's costly.. have a flag array saying removed[5] and mark it true

Default avatar.png SujalAI: what's a flag array

cegprakash: boolean array

cegprakash: if u want to delete index 2

Default avatar.png SujalAI: okay

cegprakash: store erased[2] = true

Default avatar.png Aplet123: doing that is stupid, then indexing is broken

Counterbalance: can do (val) => val.x != ele.x && val.y != ele.y to get that filter to work

Default avatar.png SujalAI: Okay I will try that

cegprakash: exactly Aplet123

MadKnight: hey cegprakash how's your bot ?

MadKnight: already legend ?

cegprakash: ofc MadKnight

cegprakash: ezpz

cegprakash: but I'm stuck around #40-#60

cegprakash: there is some serious prediction going on in that range

cegprakash: so I'm adding my own prediction

cegprakash: slowly but surely

Counterbalance: not too slow, the timer will start blinking in 34 minutes

cegprakash: ot

cegprakash: it's time for eulerscheZahl #1

cegprakash: look at him go

MadKnight: cegprakash when is time for cegprakash #1 ?

cegprakash: A day may come

cegprakash: when I don't want to become #1

cegprakash: But it is not this day

MadKnight: today is the last day ceggy

MadKnight: gogogogo

eulerscheZahl: when you apply an unreasonable filter like country only, i am first. that's how aCat and his team got first at OoC

MSmits: I am first too then

Counterbalance: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

MSmits: sorry :P

cegprakash: cheer for me MadKnight

Counterbalance: :D

cegprakash: it counts

Braykin08: C'mon, country is absolutely reasonable

MSmits: I'm done though

Default avatar.png SujalAI: I don't understand why the includes function is not not working. This is my code

Default avatar.png SujalAI: [new Pellet(3,1,1)].includes(new Pellet(3,1,1))

Default avatar.png SujalAI: And its showing false

MSmits: I didnt finish my todo list, but the changes would be marginal and I dont want to risk completely messing up my rank to start at recalc

Default avatar.png SujalAI: Even though I just made an array with that exact element

MadKnight: because it doesn't include itself SujalAI

eulerscheZahl: i have a few TODOs too. but no biggies

MSmits: I never made a kill function

MSmits: I did write an avoidance function for dead ends

eulerscheZahl: except for my screwed up opening, going to the wrong super pellets on some maps

MSmits: but i dont think it works very well

TidyMaze: SujalAI javascript is a stupid language with no defined equals function. You cannot do oneObject == anotherObject

Default avatar.png SujalAI: MadKnight I checked in an array with a pellet object for a pellet object

TidyMaze: includes uses the == operator

eulerscheZahl: i don't even try to avoid kills in dead ends

MSmits: oh

MSmits: i thought that was common?

cegprakash: TidyMaze very true u can't even sort an array of integers

MSmits: i mean if you kill there, why not avoid there?

eulerscheZahl: dunno, didn't feel like coding it

MSmits: i know that feeling, lost motivation for a few days now :P

eulerscheZahl: i guess that attitude is part of the reason why i will never win :D

eulerscheZahl: and the lack of talent

MSmits: well I've found in the last few contest that I've adopted your way of looking at it

MSmits: i can't be arsed, screw it

eulerscheZahl: :D

MSmits: i blame community games

MSmits: i enjoy them so much that whenever I spend a week on a contest like this, I miss them

eulerscheZahl: you truly like boardgames

MSmits: your Onitama was awesome

MSmits: yeah

eulerscheZahl: but now you are done i guess

eulerscheZahl: you have a good bot, the rest turns into randomness

MSmits: yeah i am I refitted the constants a while ago

MSmits: I think it's 60% vs karlis o and tric trac

MSmits: so its pretty clear

eulerscheZahl: and then they fit their constants again, beating you and so on

eulerscheZahl: time to stop that cycle if you don't have ideas for real improvements

MSmits: right

MSmits: I am on breakthrough now

MSmits: seems really easy to code a sim for it

MSmits: but the strategy is hard

eulerscheZahl: an interesting game

struct: MSmits any board game you would like to see that isnt here yet?

MSmits: you know what people will answer to that

eulerscheZahl: i try to plit the board into regions that i minimax independently

MSmits: they've been dogging you for months

eulerscheZahl: if i attack here, i win in 4 moves

eulerscheZahl: opponent takes 6, so attack

MSmits: thats the idea i think eulerscheZahl

MSmits: i think you need to take a pawn and then only consider the stuff diagonally ahead of it

MSmits: the other pawns cant reach it

MSmits: so you can min max that area

dbf: oh, looks like I need to setup clock for 5am tomorrow to test couple of fixes :(

eulerscheZahl: or a group of pawns

dbf: submits are so slow

MSmits: yeah

eulerscheZahl: your attacker team

MSmits: maybe so. I think I will need a look up array to look up patterns and eval them

eulerscheZahl: everyone playing now. it will end soon

eulerscheZahl: 33 computing in legend alone

eulerscheZahl: 214 in total

Default avatar.png SujalAI: Can you tell me what mistake I'm doing here:

Default avatar.png SujalAI:

MSmits: you're not moving

dbf: where is aws auto-scaling when we need it?

eulerscheZahl: ignoring big pellet at 15,12

TidyMaze: SujalAI turn 17, you bump several times your own pacs

MSmits: thats how they say hello

MSmits: social distancing

cegprakash: SujalAI turn 17

eulerscheZahl: and then moving both units in a line, not spreading and harvesting

Default avatar.png SujalAI: I'm just in bronze

eulerscheZahl: and still no SPEED as i told you earlier

MSmits: eulerscheZahl does it seem like there are more top players than usual? You know many from other platforms right?

cegprakash: SujalAI first turn u are not moving all ur pacs

MSmits: and older contests

MSmits: I'm just wondering if besides having more players we also have more top players

eulerscheZahl: there are some from topcoder

eulerscheZahl: i don't know all of them, i'm that not active there

MSmits: ah ok

eulerscheZahl: topcoders: psyh o, ieh h, davier 19, sullype r

eulerscheZahl: all capable of beating me on their platform

MSmits: speed is more of an issue there right?

eulerscheZahl: fast coding?

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: like a few hrs

eulerscheZahl: no, these are marathon matches too. 1 week for an optim problem

MSmits: ah ok

eulerscheZahl: topcoder has short rounds as well. but i ignore them

MSmits: you know, if this was a short contest, I would actually have gotten a better rank. First time that happened


sorry for URL shortener. the target has [] in it, not recognized as link by the chat

eulerscheZahl: so we won't see you rise this night?

MSmits: no

MSmits: it's done

MSmits: well I wont submit anything new that is

MSmits: dunno what other people will do

eulerscheZahl: i hereby claim victory over MSmits

ZarthaxX: LOL

MSmits: well deserved too

MSmits: too often I beat you by 2 ranks :P

eulerscheZahl: kind of got a habit :D

MSmits: hehe yea. Maybe next time :)

MSmits: I'm hoping no more hidden information though

dbdr: lol, numbers of subs in top 15

dbdr: almost everyone

eulerscheZahl: 7

eulerscheZahl: 8

Illedan: Hi, zup?

MSmits: hi

WINWINWIN: eulerscheZahl so back to #1 global now :)

eulerscheZahl: 12h to go then it's finally over

dbdr: eulerscheZahl, your estimated probability of finally getting that top 3 achievement? ;)

MSmits: WINWINWIN he's been trading places with royale for a while now

eulerscheZahl: 2%

MSmits: it's entertaining

ashelkov: luck to everyone!

dbdr: that's low

WINWINWIN: :D looks like it will take a considerable lead now, huge lead in contest and when it comes as a multi, that too

eulerscheZahl: i have to improve for top3 for sure

MSmits: people find it hard to optimize vs you eulerscheZahl

ashelkov: its pretty hard to validate ideas beacuse of long submit and random factor

MSmits: because you crash their IDE games

eulerscheZahl: not even on purpose :(

kovi: euler - who do you think currently top3?

struct: I wonder if this is going to get fixed

eulerscheZahl: the randomness is a pain

MSmits: you're just straining C#

struct: I know you dont abuse it but still

MSmits: to the max

eulerscheZahl: there are at least 10 candidates for top3

kovi: ok

eulerscheZahl: and we don't know who's hiding

dbdr: is there such a strong meta? I would think most of the time you can improve in general

dbdr: not against a specific player

dbdr: but I have not been really paying attention to that

kovi: probably some metas in (aggression)

MSmits: one time I did a submit that got 8% winrate out of 100 vs kovi and 50% vs euler (40% if you discount the crashes)

dbdr: right

MSmits: i did a test i mean

MSmits: cg bench

MSmits: then i changed a constant and it was 47% vs kovi

MSmits: so yea... meta

MSmits: i just cant explain what causes the difference exactly. It's hidden meta

kovi: what was that constant lol?

kovi: priv

ZarthaxX: Nerchio you are making me nervous lol

MSmits: had to do with how I handled opponent prediction

kovi: (ofcourse)

eulerscheZahl: games parsed: 215 timeouts found: 0

MSmits: dont know the details

eulerscheZahl: take that!

MSmits: gj :)

kovi: that is meta independent improvement

MSmits: no i was doing a probability thing where I floodfilled out from opponents with their speed per turn, making many assumptions

MSmits: some of them might conflict with your bot behavior

kovi: i meant eulers no timeout improvement

MSmits: when i set the constant to 0, my bot was back to normal winrate vs you

Nerchio: ZarthaxX i just spam submit i dont code for like the past 5 days

Nerchio: i fixed only some variables

ZarthaxX: oh..

ZarthaxX: but man, wtf you were there

ZarthaxX: painful to watch

Nerchio: yeah close

ZarthaxX: wait a sec for that dude submitting

Nerchio: lost too many now

ZarthaxX: maybe he pushes u

MSmits: how close Nerchio?

ZarthaxX: D:

Nerchio: i feel from 1st twice i think

Nerchio: fell

MSmits: wow damn

MSmits: if you end very near the boss, keep it there if many are submitting

Nerchio: i dont like this challenge though i can end on 300th and on 1st

MSmits: maybe someone submits who pushes you

ZarthaxX: Nerchio for real same submit in gold has that behaviour?

NinjaDoggy: lol "i can end on 300th and on 1st" true

Nerchio: yea

ZarthaxX: wtf

Nerchio: gold is sad

MSmits: it's like that in legend also, though its a smaller league

MSmits: so smaller spread

MSmits: I am 20-60

eulerscheZahl: that's why i always try to be above the boss when a new league opens

Nerchio: maybe not 300 but 150+ easily

NinjaDoggy: I miss perfect information games :(

NinjaDoggy: less meta based :(

MSmits: same NinjaDoggy

eulerscheZahl: no submitting at 5:55pm

ZarthaxX: those weredays

NinjaDoggy: COIF was so sick

MSmits: but do arena's after the contest, most of them are perfect information

eulerscheZahl: COIF was great

MSmits: COIF was great, wish i had had a little more time fo rit

Nerchio: i have a positive win ratio vs the boss but still i mean too much luck

MSmits: Nerchio

MSmits: stay up all night

MSmits: keep submitting

MSmits: you will pull him down

eulerscheZahl: wait a bit


MSmits: with less people submitting, your 50% + will win out

eulerscheZahl: 0.6 below the boss

Nerchio: would be nice to go legend but i dont care that much if i dont get it

eulerscheZahl: you have to get up there and fight the boss

MSmits: what is your exact winrate vs boss Nerchio?

wlesavo: i promouted from #7, with that many people submiting you will be in legend in no time

Nerchio: it was 33% before i fixed variables :D

dbdr: Nerchio that is NOT the spirit ;)

MSmits: and now?

Nerchio: now its 55% or something i think

Nerchio: i tested 180games

MSmits: mmh to trust 55%, you have to test with like 200 games

Nerchio: yeah close

MSmits: ah... not very certain, but within lucky submit range

MSmits: the thing is, if noone else submits, you will promote everyone your bot is weak against and only keep the players your bot is strong against, and you will pull down the boss

Nerchio: long term maybe yes but last time submitters pulled me down :D

MSmits: other people submitting will mess this process up

eulerscheZahl: but when the next submit finishes around 100, it doesn't matter

MSmits: this is why you dont go to sleep

MSmits: pro-tip

Nerchio: lol :P

eulerscheZahl: or script the submitting

Default avatar.png cfenoy: anyone having random timeout while reading the input?

eulerscheZahl: python?

Default avatar.png cfenoy: yes

MSmits: you need to let your bot read it, human reading is too slow

Nerchio: euler I feel like if more people used the scripts and apps that top players use this site would explode :p

eulerscheZahl: flush your error stream

MSmits: 50 ms

Default avatar.png cfenoy: ok, I'll try that, thanks

**MSmits trollmode off

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: MSmits no sleeping? How does that work?

Cappefra: Nerchio already tried submit spamming?

MSmits: well, you stay up all night and keep submitting until legend

eulerscheZahl: Nerchio that's why noone has shared the timeout checker

MSmits: not me though, I am done.

MSmits: need to teach you tomorrow Thiesjoo

eulerscheZahl: you have to download each match individually

Cappefra: feels bad seeing you #2 the whole day

MSmits: dont want to be zombie

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: Zombies are cool too :)

NapTown: so who's going to win this thing

MSmits: true true

eulerscheZahl: i still feel bad for the OoC stats I made. downloading 5GB of replays

MSmits: brb

ZarthaxX: so cool looking at teacher-student chat here lol

Cappefra: any idea why cgbenchmark would add this characters at the beginning of my program? 

Cappefra: of course every game fails like that

Default avatar.png cfenoy: even with flushing stderr it still times out. I can see a debug message before reading the pellets, but not after

eulerscheZahl: encoding

Nerchio: AI coomunicates with you

Cappefra: lol

eulerscheZahl: try to save it with a different encoding

eulerscheZahl: UTF8 if Neumann is a reasonable person

Cappefra: I'd have oped VS Code already saves it like that

Cappefra: let me see

MSmits: ZarthaxX yeah I like that Thiesjoo joined.

MSmits: first time i see one of my students in a contest

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: Im trying my best, currently rank 600 in silver

eulerscheZahl: Nerchio submitted again. and failed the first few matches

AntiSquid: submits got slower?

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: Goal was top 1000 overall, but looks like im not going to make that

Nerchio: yea and i submit again and again :D


MSmits: yeah it's better than anyone else from your class would manage though, so well done.

AntiSquid: it's very random

AntiSquid: extremely random

dbf: MSmits, if your student beats you in a contest will it count for an exam?

Neumann: I suppose it's UTF8 by default .. not sure

Nerchio: 500 people gold with pacman randomness is too much

AntiSquid: like AutomatonNN's underwear are falling off kind of random

AutomatonNN: yeah

Nerchio: i need to win first 12+ matches to shoot up to top80

AntiSquid: see?

MSmits: dbf unfortunately I teach him two subjects but neither of them are computer science :)

MSmits: physics and a subject similar to physics

MSmits: my colleague teaches him CS

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: NLT is pretty fun tho

AntiSquid: ya submit spam is the only way

Cappefra: yeah VS Code does utf8 by default

Default avatar.png Thiesjoo: Nature, life and technology

MSmits: yeah

AntiSquid: mandatory loss streak incoming ?

Neumann: Cappefra: what's happening ?

MSmits: i guess dynamic modelling is a bit CS-like

AntiSquid: nerchio i saw you at top 5 i think, what happened?

Nerchio: unlucky last matches :P

Neumann: Nerchio : what are you up to these days ? Working in IT ?

AntiSquid: and how much did you get dropped?

Nerchio: im finishing studies as my profile suggests

Nerchio: what do you mean antisquid

AntiSquid: Neumann still thinks it's that starcraft player?

Nerchio: i think spam submit is a better way to advance rather than waiting for 1 point difference

Neumann: I though you already graduated. Studying what field ?

AntiSquid: from top 5 how much did you drop before you submitted ... you lose rank / drop in rank when you lose, that's what i meant

MSmits: is that one of Thrall's spirit wolves Nerchio

Nerchio: distributed systems

Nerchio: idk its a wolf :D

MSmits: it's a spirit wolf

Neumann: Nice

Nerchio: yes

AntiSquid: it's a pooch MSmits, can't recognize it?

Nerchio: antisquid i resubmit at top3 :P

AntiSquid: i wouldn't have done that

AntiSquid: streak of bad luck here

AntiSquid: this is a rank 400+ bot and look at it now, it's top 100 for now at least, but still weird

MSmits: hey, how long have you had that avatar AntiSquid

MSmits: I've used that picture in power point presentations

AntiSquid: maybe if i slide that one magic variable in my code one more time and do a backflip i get rank 1 legend who knows

MSmits: to explain how stars are formed

AntiSquid: it's the pacman nebula

AntiSquid: so since contest started

MSmits: pretty sure it's the eagle nebula :P

AntiSquid: well you're wrong

MSmits: sure, correct the astrophysicist on names of nebulae

MSmits: it could have been named the pacman nebula

AntiSquid: i searched pacman nebula, same picture appeared on 100 different sites so

MSmits: lol

AntiSquid: i can agree with 1 person and disagree with everyone else, but what's the point ?

Bernard_Lowe: if you push code and your code is worse then earlier, you won't lose your league rank right (gold, silver, etc) ?

MSmits: hmm you might be right, if i look at the bigger version it s abit different

AntiSquid: MSmits i just searched eagle nebula, it's not that one, maybe you're confused because it's a small picture

BeeGee: Bernard_Lowe no, you don't lose your league rank

MSmits: you're right AntiSquid

MSmits: they are pretty similar

AntiSquid: also is any of them colored in their true color on the internet?

MSmits: I thought you were kidding with the pacman nebula and you just went through lots of nebulae until you found one that looks like pacman :p

AntiSquid: i mean the results show same thing in 30 different colors

MSmits: most of them arent colored true

MSmits: much of it is UV light

MSmits: or infrared

MSmits: often a combination to see different features

MSmits: some of these radiation types get through dust very well, i think infrared does this. It's important to see through dust clouds

cegprakash: does anyone have a number on average no. of turns in a game?

cegprakash: in legend/gold

AntiSquid: ok the randomness in this game is getting really ugly

AntiSquid: i mean the leaderboard

Nerchio: yes :(

AntiSquid: not the game

MSmits: worse than ooc isnt it AntiSquid?

cegprakash: Nerchio what is it

Nerchio: its a lot worse than ooc in my opinion

cegprakash: oh the randomness

AntiSquid: ooc was nowhere near as bad as this MSmits, in fact i don't remember ooc being random, but maybe i forgot about it

AntiSquid: this is like fking lottery

Nerchio: :D

cegprakash: it's random because lot of good bots with bugs exist in gold

MSmits: it was pretty random when i tried to get past gold boss and I do seem to remember you complaining about it too. Might have been someone else though

AntiSquid: good bots with bugs :thinking: lol

MSmits: cegprakash bugs are not the reason

cegprakash: yeah good bots with bugs will be in bottom usually

AntiSquid: ah i remember now MSmits, there was some randomness true, but i think that was about 20 ranks

AntiSquid: this can be 100 - 300 ranks difference from submit to submit

MSmits: the reason for the randomness is that even if one bot is generally a lot better than another, one unlucky turn by a pac may offset this difference

MSmits: and there is luck involved due to hidden information

Default avatar.png 0xCAFE: Heeeellll, i was so close of beating the gold boss. I was 3rd.. Now i'm 9th :(

Default avatar.png 0xCAFE: Rip me

AntiSquid: maybe the number of pellets needs to be increase / arena size ?

Braykin08: I feel you

Cappefra: I just submitted and I'm feeling unlucky

Hvosten: I cant advance to gold, righ after the boss :D

AntiSquid: mandatory random loss streak commenced

MSmits: I know the feeling of being stuck behind gold boss too. I always got past eventually, but one time as late as 1 am on the last day, when i refused to go to bed until legend

MSmits: this is why i am saying, no sleep!

Cappefra: ooc was my first contest and this one's my second, made gold in both but no legend

Default avatar.png 0xCAFE: I think, I'm gonna sleep instead

Hvosten: And you submit the same algorithm?

Default avatar.png 0xCAFE: It's my first contest

NinjaDoggy: I don't think I'll be able to last day promote to legend this contest :(

Hvosten: my too

Default avatar.png 0xCAFE: It's not so bad

Cappefra: I didn't really try in ooc though, when I made gold I was like I'M OUTTA HERE

Cappefra: but I was hoping for legend this time, it's frustrating to see my 2-day-old bot doing better than anything other I've tried even though I've objectively solved some bugs

MSmits: wow NinjaDoggy, you have top 3 achiev

cegprakash: Cappefra been there done that

NinjaDoggy: yea! COIF :D

Default avatar.png 0xCAFE: Yeah same. It can be frustrating

AntiSquid: NinjaDoggy, if chodukai did then so can you ! :p

Default avatar.png 0xCAFE: The problem with this game is that it's too random

MSmits: well done that NinjaDoggy

cegprakash: what I did was Cappefra I installed winmerge and made a middle version between current and old

AntiSquid: 1 day legend

cegprakash: and then use that version to move ahead

Cappefra: tried that too, though manually

Cappefra: it's pretty much what I'm submitting now but it doesn't seem like it's moving from bottom gold, the other one was mid-gold

Scarfield: chodukai-san would have gotten legend the first day, if he joined the first dat :o

reCurse: *chokudai

AntiSquid: i just use diffinity to compare versions (old style i guess, since others use the command line)

AntiSquid: say his name 3 times and he will appear, reCurse

Scarfield: Biggie-smalls, Biggie-smalls

Scarfield: ..

AntiSquid: i guess he doesn't need the screen

Default avatar.png SkyDreamer: hi

Scarfield: he doesnt even need a keyboard

Default avatar.png SkyDreamer: how to sort a char Array in alphabetical order depite upper or lower case?

AntiSquid: that depends on the language

AntiSquid: which language are you using?

Default avatar.png SkyDreamer: java

AntiSquid: also it's best to google these kind of questions, there are tons of examples of how to do stuff for all languages

Default avatar.png SkyDreamer: Arrays.sort gives upper case first

AntiSquid: well most language (popular ones)

Clagus: this game is nuts... xD how to loose 4/5 pacs and not loose a game? LUCK! :D

ashelkov: how to loose all pacs and not loose a game? ))

Clagus: that's almost what happened

AntiSquid: happened multiple times to many and surely to many others

Durkin: phew, I'm tuckered all out on this contest, but was looking over old ones and saw tron, god doing a tron bot is fun

Durkin: need to revisit it

MSmits: there are many fun games on CG

MSmits: if you like simple games, try one of the many board games

reCurse: itsatrap.jpg

Cappefra: 105 people in legend

Cappefra: If nerchio doesn't make it there's no way I'll make it

Nerchio: lol :p

Nerchio: dont base your success on other people

Nerchio: i didnt code too much for the past 5 days for this contest

Cappefra: no but you're good and today you've been trying to beat the league from a position that was already better than mine lol

Nerchio: i started last league same as you so not sure what you mean 'good' :p

Cappefra: made legend in ooc is enough for "good" haha

Nerchio: ok :p

AntiSquid: ya ooc legend is really good imo

Nerchio: it had a lot going on but i think it was simpler to come up with what you actually need

Nerchio: than this xD

Cappefra: I'm totally with you on this

Cappefra: this is frustrating af

Cappefra: "I KNOW WHAT'LL DO IT *tap tap tap submit drops 300 ranks"

CowZow: Wowz, this was a really impressive trap case handled by romka:

cegprakash: 9 wins in first 12.. after a long time.. may be good submit?

Clagus: CowZow - but he seems to completely ignore the big pellet right before his eyes :D

Clagus: don't know how can you do it on such a high level xD

Kukiss: CowZow that still very interesting that he did not consume the last super pellet after the kill

Clagus: that's what I just said

CowZow: Hmmm good point, yeah that is interesting

CowZow: I wonder what kind of interactions were at play there

Daher: Hello

Kukiss: oh, sorry Clagus :D just watched the match and typed before following the chat

cegprakash: AntiSquid turn 21 u don't have anti accident yet?

AntiSquid: i don't hear anyone else mention anti accident

AntiSquid: see *

cegprakash: everyone does it

cegprakash: just that nobody tells you

cegprakash: nobody dies in accident in legend league

cegprakash: at least when it's obvious

cegprakash: like this case

Cappefra: how do you avoid that? the turn he sees it is when he gets eaten

cegprakash: no

cegprakash: he should create a danger zone around him

cegprakash: based on what he saw in the past

cegprakash: and where my pacs were

cegprakash: in the past

AntiSquid: i have a tracker, it's incomplete, that's about it

Cappefra: that doesn't seem like an obvious case tbh

AntiSquid: maybe calling it a tracker is better ?

cegprakash: I like not dying to accidents

cegprakash: I call it anti accidents

Doju: Are there always 4 super pellets?

AntiSquid: es

AntiSquid: yes

Doju: thanks

MSmits: thats more like a day 2 question :P

Doju: :D

cegprakash: wait what

cegprakash: I thought it's random

Doju: well, my pacs have been doing all the thinking for me MSmits

Cappefra: none of you is switching after turn 91 there

MSmits: ah ok, thats good Doju

AntiSquid: switching there is bad Cappefra

AntiSquid: usually

AntiSquid: well depends on enemy

cegprakash: Cappefra that's the best move there

cegprakash: u switch u lose the pellet to opponent

AntiSquid: that's one annoying corner case of the contest

AntiSquid: me standing there is a mistake though lol

AntiSquid: it's my last pac

AntiSquid: could switch though, have nothing to lose and am behind points, cegprakash

AntiSquid: but generally didn't seem to be good idea

Cappefra: that's kinda the only play adjustment I make

AntiSquid: need more if else

cegprakash: u have everything to lose AntiSquid

cegprakash: that 1 pellet changes things

Cappefra: play-style I meant

cegprakash: than ur life

Default avatar.png faresnaoui: hello everybode:)

AntiSquid: it's 1 pac vs 3, i should switch at that frame lol

AntiSquid: then it's 1 vs 2 . so

Zenoscave: ceg I have a question for your anti-accident stuff

Zenoscave: Can I PM you?

cegprakash: What I don't have yet is this :

Kukiss: that's a nice play there

Hvosten: After four days finally gold <3

Hvosten: I can go sleep :D

Hvosten: good luck

Kukiss: gz :)

cegprakash: gz

Cappefra: cegprakash

Cappefra: woah that play tho

Doju: gz Hvosten

Doju: Okay, a few more tweaks

Doju: maybe 2 more features

Doju: then i'm done

AntiSquid: hvosten no sleep till legend!

AntiSquid: no sleep till legend Doju

Doju: stop it pls

Doju: I'm kinda tempted but lets be honest

Doju: without some major improvements that not gonna happen :D

Cappefra: I don't even know what I'm still trying to do here

Cappefra: Same Dou

Cappefra: Doju

AntiSquid: nobody took the big pellet

Doju: Oh you're right next to me in rankings Cappefra

EvModder: i take a break for 6 hours, come back, and i'm #16. no changes to my code whatsoever

AntiSquid: and you were #5 or so before eh ?

EvModder: i'm starting to think that not participating is the best strat xD

EvModder: very briefly

EvModder: i don't know if i'll finish in top 20 tbh, but i will try and put some time in

AntiSquid: was a joke, that you dropped 5 to 16 without changing code

EvModder: i went from 50 -> 16 without changing code

EvModder: :)

AntiSquid: good

Cappefra: Doju I just lost 200 ranks though

EvModder: yes, but how do i replicate this tactic lol

Doju: :o

Doju: how'd that happen Cappefra?

Cappefra: cause I'm still trying shit that I hope works and inevitably doesn't

AntiSquid: probably leave bot as is and only test in IDE until you 100% sure about the change though even 100% isn't enouhg in this game :/

Doju: This feels dumb

Doju: i'm bringing a variable along a loong chain of functions

Doju: when in reality only the last one needs it

Doju: :/

EvModder: i have a function header with 9 parameters...

EvModder: and most of them are maps, sets, or vectors

EvModder: wait did i say 9? apparently it's 13

EvModder: that's how bad my code is right now xD

Doju: fixed it

Doju: Object oriented programming for the win :P

EvModder: :D

Doju: EvModder yeh my code was decent-ish with everything pretty much organized

Doju: until this morning when i needed performance for magic math

EvModder: ahahha yes

Doju: now it's all a huge mess

stakka: do pacs also 'see' via the wrap around?

stakka: if a pellet is on a straight line on the other side of the map and there is no wall in between

Doju: Ohh shoot

Spifflejedi: yes it will be seen

stakka: thanks

Doju: mine dont hahhah

Spifflejedi: the pellet will be in the list ;)

Doju: wait no, that doesnt matter...

EvModder: LOL

Doju: i swear they do stupid things around the border

EvModder: yeah i've had some problems with it

Doju: maybe it's just my imagination

EvModder: my manhattan_dist() was bad for a long time with the border

EvModder: there would be a deadly enemy and my pac would just walk onto them

Spifflejedi: manhattan distance does not consider the potential wall

Hvosten: I also used manhattan metric, later switched to graphs path finding. How many lines of code do you have?

Doju: Hvosten 1130 and counting

Doju: although maybe 100 of that are old commented out things

Hvosten: 675 :D

Dr-D: Time to remove all those comments

Dr-D: ;)

Dr-D: I write too slow =(

Spifflejedi: 1250

EvModder: nice

muy31: yo Doju we finally made it!

EvModder: i have a ton of comments, currently 1400

Doju: muy31 we did it!

EvModder: i will probably be able to trim it down to 1000 the end, if i can manage to clean it up

Hvosten: Doju I am after you in the ranking :D

Hvosten: not right now :D

Doju: :p

Cappefra: submit's slow af right now

Nerchio: y

AntiSquid: i trimmed 400 lines from my code, could do more, but only did bare minimum to make it more readable

Default avatar.png Xlos: I'm only around 600 xd

Default avatar.png Xlos: Though I don't have many comments

cegprakash: why am I selecting cars when I'm supposed to select crosswalks

Braykin08: made it to legend. Finally

Doju: graatz Braykin08

cegprakash: just in time Braykin08

cegprakash: biw grab some snacks

cegprakash: coz u deserve it

cegprakash: AntiSquid doesn't

ZarthaxX: that's kind of rude

pde-bakk: I hope to reach legend too tonight, but the difference in score between the top and me seems so big

Braykin08: Now that this is done. How many hours did y'all spent?

ZarthaxX: that's relative pde-bakk

Doju: Waaayyy too many

Braykin08: I but be at like 50h?

Doju: like...

Doju: 11 days? * 15 h

Doju: xD

pde-bakk: @ZarthaxX im ~100 in gold, need like 4 more score points but that is so much

Braykin08: Don't give up pde-bakk. I spent 2 days hovering in top 10 golds until I made the right improvement

pde-bakk: what was that improvement, or do you prefer not to spill?

Braykin08: I'll stay broad. Opponent prediction

pde-bakk: Yeah thats something ive been meaning to get to but damn

Clagus: the easiest way is to calculate enemy moves just like you do with your pacs

Doju: that'd make me time out :-D

Clagus: :D

pde-bakk: true but I dont have as much time for that as C++ people do

Clagus: I'm talking c#

Clagus: that's what I do anyways

AntiSquid: ceg be more humble, i beat boss for you to reach legend

Clagus: :P

pde-bakk: Im talking Ruby

Braykin08: I might have misspoke. I don't not predict where they will go, but where they went

pde-bakk: yeah I understand, that was my plan too

Braykin08: Goddamn legend is ranking up fast. I'm now 38th lol. How many hiders are there?

pde-bakk: what are hiders?

Braykin08: People who "hide' their bot by not submitting it until the end

pde-bakk: to not reveal their strategies, so people cant counter them?

pde-bakk: I thought the entire point of legend was to keep coming up with new strats to counter opponents

Braykin08: Not submitting doesn't mean you cant counter them by playing what they submitted last

AntiSquid: ah there are fun last minute submits that even get #1 in the contest

AntiSquid: not always

AntiSquid: and less likely in this RNG fest

berries: anyone know when the next contest is?

AntiSquid: no

AntiSquid: not announcedd

Default avatar.png JBM: there is no next contest

Braykin08: I hope not to seen. I need to take time off lol

Braykin08: soon*

AntiSquid: there were only like 2 weeks between ooc and this one

pde-bakk: I didnt do the ooc one, but did a run of Fantastic bits that the 42network hosted

pde-bakk: which was only like a month ago too

Doju: Lets see how many things i actually did from the to-do list

AntiSquid: lol the 42 was private club

Doju: "enemy memory & prediction" no

Doju: "probabilities" yes

Nerchio: yeah antisquid haha :D

Nerchio: this is the one we were trying to find

cegprakash: hey eulerscheZahl I found a bug in ur bot


cegprakash: or is it intentional suicide?

Doju: i did like 8/14 depending on how you count them. Pretty decent :-D

Chkoupinator: is it guaranteed that we see an enemy before it gets killed by our bot (supposing both walk in the same cell after being in a corner)?

Chkoupinator: I suppose not?

RoboStac: nope, thats why the dead pacs were given in silver

RoboStac: so you could tell that had happened

Chkoupinator: wells hit

Chkoupinator: well shit*

Chkoupinator: I'm still in bronze

Chkoupinator: I don't understand why it makes sense to give more info on higher leagues though lol

Chkoupinator: especially one that's this crucial

RoboStac: it was more it was missing and needed adding and they didn't want to break the existing bronze bots

RoboStac: it's not really that useful

Default avatar.png SkyDreamer: can i delete an object in java?

Nerchio: no

Default avatar.png SkyDreamer: so if i create an int array, i cant recreate it later

Nerchio: if it doesnt have references it will be removed by garbage collector

Nerchio: i mean you can if you have a reference to it

Default avatar.png SkyDreamer: well u cant change size of an array once its created

Nerchio: so maybe use a list if you need a changing size

Default avatar.png SkyDreamer: but arraylist u can only add slots never reduce i think

Nerchio: it does shrink when you remove elements

cegprakash: how to play on this seed:

Nerchio: you have expert mode enabled?

Default avatar.png SkyDreamer: to remove i only need to ArrayList = null; right?

Nerchio: hmm not sure aboutthat

Default avatar.png Xlos: I've got a new record, my code has 7 end braces in a row with no code in between

pde-bakk: ahahah @cegprakash he doesnt mind keeping you stuck there forever, you could send a paperpac to unstuck yours and have a man advantage

Default avatar.png Xlos: It's not even nested in a class, just a void function with quickly ending logic

RockyMullet: hum, my sim works, but its all buggued

RockyMullet: no time to debug that...

drykberg: stupid question: what would be the reason if pacs don't move continously, but rater stop-and-go like?

drykberg: also several of my pacs only receive commands every other round or so? hmm too slow? too many conditions to check etc?

duckquackduck: other pacmans are probably using speed

drykberg: i just got into bronze

duckquackduck: the ones not using speed, will move slowly @drykberg

drykberg: in wood they all move normally

drykberg: ah okay, i see, indeed, the enemy uses speed in the beginning but then they also move slowly, i get it

drykberg: in bronze i have to give pacs commands ingame?

drykberg: oh well.. thank you. Very big help already

duckquackduck: np. what you mean in game? you need to prove each pacman command every round

drykberg: well idk, maybe im confused. There were indications here and there that I can change the code or pass in values while the game is played

drykberg: i probably misunderstood that, i hope so, coz i rather not do that

drykberg: ah okay so now, not just MOVE 1 2 3, but also SPEED 1 or SWITCH 1 ROCK

MarekM: LORD BETRAYUS (timed out), just wow

BenjaminUrquhart: oh so that's why my rank dropped so suddenly

BenjaminUrquhart: they broke java stuff

berries: is the time limit when submissions close or when leaderboards close

duckquackduck: submissions close

ZarthaxX: berries game will be available after finishing prob

Doju: i really need to go to bed :/

Doju: Just one more feature though :p

Doju: and then maybe some variable analysis

Doju: now i have extra_magic_values

Chkoupinator: I know the feel lol, been fasting these days and both yesterday and today I didn't eat for an additional ~ 1h (more the day before, about 30 mins today) for the sake of adding something to this heh

Doju: same lol

Doju: or really the problem is that going to the shop takes time away from this :D

cegprakash: I struggle to get to super pellets on this seed: seed=8258687542604494800

BenjaminUrquhart: ceg

BenjaminUrquhart: wait no

cegprakash: what

BenjaminUrquhart: I was looking you up in the leaderboard but the chat window stole my keyboard focus

cegprakash: don worry I'll win this

cegprakash: I'm hiding my best bot

cegprakash: will there be more games during final calc?

BenjaminUrquhart: yes

cegprakash: why do I have a huge bug on this seed :"(

Doju: oh shoot

Doju: i timed out

Doju: i think...

thethiny: @Doju yo gratz on the gold

Doju: thx thethiny

thethiny: I was checking and I have 3 major bugs in my code, but I ain't gonna fix them, I will rank lower than what I am now and there's only 8 hours left

thethiny: not worth it

Doju: :o

Doju: why not

thethiny: If I resubmit I'll stay in gold

thethiny: but my rank will go back to 500

thethiny: and I'm happy with #371

ZarthaxX: thethiny just do it

Doju: mmkay

ZarthaxX: i also did that in the past but then ended submitting

ZarthaxX: you will regret

thethiny: @ZarthaxX I'll just consider the competition over

Doju: i'm so lost

Doju: i have a million different arrays

ZarthaxX: :( ok

Doju: im not used to this D:

thethiny: XD

thethiny: guys let's compare Lines of Code

thethiny: how much do you have

Doju: 1020 pretty much all working code

thethiny: mine is 1455

cegprakash: 1500

MarekM: python 720

thethiny: nice we're around the same

Doju: my magic method just doesn't want to cooperate anymore

thethiny: this is the biggest amount of code I've ever written in 1 file

Doju: same

Doju: and biggest coding project anyways

berries: can the pac see through the wrapped line of sight in bronze

thethiny: yes

Default avatar.png morning_cloud: I am at 451 lines

Doju: oh what the hell rofl

Doju: why do i have 8 rows in this array

Dr-D: 447 (bronze)

Doju: not 5 for the number of pacs or like 250 for the number of cells but 8?!

Default avatar.png shatteredcube: enemy pacs or double counting your own pacs?

drykberg: is it a bad approach to control pacs using if conditions?

Doju: not really i dont think so shatteredcube

drykberg: is there any other way even? ^^

pde-bakk: no there isnt drykberg

drykberg: okay ^^

pde-bakk: see what the conditions are like, and act based on the information you have

Dr-D: Or train an NN ;)

cegprakash: does anyone else feel so hard with this seed seed=8258687542604494800

cegprakash: or is it just me?

Dr-D: There are many roads to improve

drykberg: has anyone done that? train a nn?

thethiny: I don't think so

drykberg: is that even possible? not really is it?

thethiny: cuz all the top are C++

cegprakash: this map :@ :@

Dr-D: Usually there lots of the top coders here share there approach in the forum one the content ends

Dr-D: I bet there is at least one

Dr-D: Evaluation of the submit is sooo slow - I should use the time to write a new feature to it =D

AntiSquid: ofc it's possible drykberg, but who has time in a week to do it for this complicated game? i am no expert maybe someone can do it

Doju: Oh it's been working all along

Doju: lol

Doju: not sure how i got the length of eight

cegprakash: AntiSquid I found a bug and I've no idea how to fix it

cegprakash: this is weird

cegprakash: so what I do is

cegprakash: I get closest pellet to all my pacs

cegprakash: greedily from my pac index 0

cegprakash: also greedily choosing pellets

Dr-D: Improved by 3k!

Dr-D: O.O

cegprakash: so the star pellet usually goes to id=>0 and id=>1

Dr-D: Steps are big in bronze =D

cegprakash: now say I got 4 pacs

cegprakash: *5 pacs

cegprakash: and the id 4 is in a better position to eat this star pellet

cegprakash: how do I command it

cegprakash: :O

cegprakash: right now I swap stuff randomly

cegprakash: based on sum of distances

Dr-D: check distances from every one of your pac to every super pellet and send the closest? remember that choice for the next round ;)

cegprakash: unfortunately I"m simming

cegprakash: and I don't predict enemy will steal my star pellet

Doju: whaa

thethiny: I'm not simming but MY PACS eat MY Star Pellets

BenjaminUrquhart: same

thethiny: that's the bug I was talking about

cegprakash: that hurts :'(

BenjaminUrquhart: until something breaks

Doju: im giving the pellets some negative value based on the average distance to other pacs

thethiny: or

thethiny: you can do something easier

BenjaminUrquhart: I'm breaking everything

BenjaminUrquhart: it's a great strategy

thethiny: give the other pacs a value of -5

thethiny: * the distance

Doju: but changing the constant that does that

Doju: does nothing??

thethiny: less expensive

cegprakash: :'(

cegprakash: Suppose I have 20 games on this seed

cegprakash: think about it

cegprakash: I will lose all 20

cegprakash: and think about all the seeds similar to this

Doju: anybody got a perfectly deterministic bot?

thethiny: what does deterministic means

Doju: it doesnt have randomness

thethiny: yeah mine

Dr-D: Not even a bit randomness?

Dr-D: O.o

thethiny: I don't need it

thethiny: why do I need randomness

thethiny: there isn't a single random decision here

thethiny: if you're stuck by a friend, give pass to the biggest path value

thethiny: if you're stuck with enemy, then switch, else keep getting stuck

thethiny: if he's not cooldown

thethiny: then run away

Doju: I have no idea why but it seems like my pacs are just wiggling about

Doju: going back and forth

thethiny: Here's me against myself

thethiny: here's a proof that I don't use randomness oh lord XD

Dr-D: =D

thethiny: Frame 54

thethiny: I spent most of my time on this 😂😂

thethiny: Playing Astronomia when I am sure I'm dying

Dr-D: Dmnd - found an endless loop in my code -.-

drykberg: is it possible to get to silver with randomness ? :sweat_smile:

Dr-D: calculate line of sight with a straight line without any wall

thethiny: :D

BenjaminUrquhart: drykberg why random

Doju: maybe because there's 7 hours left

drykberg: because i dont know how to do pathfinding or any of that business work...

drykberg: how*

thethiny: what language?

drykberg: works*

drykberg: C :grinning:

drykberg: im a hard beginner at coding...

thethiny: Hard Beginner + Path Finding in C?

thethiny: I suggest you find another language

drykberg: thats why im not doing pathfinding :grinning:

drykberg: although, 7 hours to go! who knows how far my motivation takes me :joy:

BenjaminUrquhart: I'm slowly being pushed up, probably because people are spam submitting and failing

thethiny: same

BenjaminUrquhart: what place are you in thethiny

thethiny: #377

thethiny: I've beaten you now haha

BenjaminUrquhart: I broke stuff ok

thethiny: 😂😂😂

thethiny: git saves the day

BenjaminUrquhart: I was ~200 before

thethiny: I know I was tracking you

thethiny: you were 167 when I was 500


Doju: i have no idea what my pacs are doing

thethiny: you too have the same messages as me lol

thethiny: Doju you're python right?

Doju: yes

thethiny: okay can I PM you?

Doju: sure

Doju: oh my god the sun is starting to rise

thethiny: dun dun dun

Default avatar.png FrancoisFavier: guys, do you think that a 20 can be push in silver to gold or it's too late ?

Dr-D: Just depends on your coding and ideas I guess

Dr-D: maybe your level of tiredness, too ;)

Doju: oh...

Doju: now i know what my bug is

Doju: these are the values for each pellet on the map

Doju: [inf inf inf inf inf inf inf inf inf inf inf inf inf inf inf inf inf inf

inf inf inf inf inf inf inf inf inf inf inf inf inf inf nan inf 

Dr-D: O.o

Dr-D: Not a good base to choose wisely =D

Doju: wdym? its a perfect situation

Dr-D: division by zero?

Doju: every possible decision leads to infinite value

Dr-D: Well. So random would be the same =D


Doju: now i got numbers :-D

thethiny: there's a madlad at #48 with PHP

BenjaminUrquhart: yes

thethiny: cya guys in 6 hours

Doju: cyq

BenjaminUrquhart: so, I've somehow screwed up A* and now my bot is searching to a depth of 550 before timing out

Doju: o.o

Doju: hey umm anybody got tips on tweaking constants?

solaimanope: gold is going up and up :(

thethiny: @Doju which constants?

Doju: thethiny all of them

thethiny: I mean

Doju: dealing with probabilities mostly

thethiny: in my case, constants mean values for enemies/friends, for you what do you mean

Doju: i dont wanna go into specifics

Chkoupinator: I think the part where they explain that the pacs cannot see through walls should have had at least one pacman in a corner so that we know that we can't see diagonally ...

Doju: just in general constants that change how pacs make decisions

thethiny: okay


thethiny: here are my constants

Doju: err

Doju: okay

Doju: yeah i have nothing like that

thethiny: XD

Doju: but how do you like figure out which is the best combination?

thethiny: I don't

Doju: lol

thethiny: I just ran it with different values

thethiny: until it behaved as I want

thethiny: basically I just pick a lost match

thethiny: and monitor the movement

thethiny: change this values up or down based on what happened until I win

thethiny: then I repeat for all losses

thethiny: once I win them all then I save

Doju: okay

Doju: ty

thethiny: as to why I have "-20", it's cuz if I had -10, then eating a big pellet and dying with an enemy = 0, which means it's fine

thethiny: but it isn't, dying isn't fine. Since my max step size is 10, so it's -(big pellet value + max steps)

thethiny: which is 20

thethiny: so if i'm gonna die there's no way a path crossing an enemy will give me a good score

Doju: oh okay now i found which one was the important one

Doju: at least against my submitted bot

Doju: pellet_distance_power = 1

Doju: this one :P

thethiny: great :D

thethiny: guys what are the dimensions for the banners

thethiny: cover banners

gitKad: I don't understand how the new rule in the silver league can be leveraged to improve my bot...

thethiny: it won't improve, just be an obstacle

gitKad: How is it a new obstacle?

gitKad: I mean... I don't see why I would change anything about my code from bronze to silver. They perform just as well... nothing really changed with that new rule.

gitKad: Unless I missed something about it

cegprakash: oh jeez

cegprakash: what's the maximum distance a pac and pellet can be

cegprakash: I had 1(00-dist)^3 in my eval and now that's ruined because dist is negative

Zenoscave: Should you go for exploration or memory pellets first?

Zenoscave: If no pellets are visible

berries: how do you use speed

berries: is it in the same command just twice

Doju: SPEED 0

Doju: for pac id 0

BenjaminUrquhart: I got captcha'd

BenjaminUrquhart: this is not what a need

berries: yeah but like for the speed turn how do i use it

BenjaminUrquhart: you don't

Doju: oh right

cegprakash: 4 hours debuggihng 1 seed

BenjaminUrquhart: you specify a spot 2 units away

Doju: you need to give the move command 2 cells away

cegprakash: :(

berries: ahhhh okay thanks

berries: so the turn that i activate speed i cant move during it?

Doju: that's also true

berries: okay okay i get it now thank you

cegprakash: I'm in a sad rank

Zenoscave: cegprakash seed doesn't effect much predictably

cegprakash: but

cegprakash: it's an important decision making

cegprakash: it can affect many games

cegprakash: I'm not taking the big pellet in legend

cegprakash: this is a huge bug

cegprakash: which I'm unable to fix

cegprakash: :(

thethiny: what do u guys think of my banner


thethiny: ffs imgur

cegprakash: I find 4 best pellets

cegprakash: and random shuffle them

cegprakash: and give score for each matching

cegprakash: and try to maximize this score

cegprakash: it's like a sim inside sim

cegprakash: and it's not working

cegprakash: search inside search

Zenoscave: Ceg just do Hungararian Algorithm

Zenoscave: Finds optimal assignment

thethiny: what is coders strike back

cegprakash: u mean a maxflow?

cegprakash: Zenoscave

Doju: oh right

Doju: no wonder why this wasnt working

Zenoscave: no.

Zenoscave: Cost assignment munkres

Doju: im giving the cells extra value for being closer to other pacs

Doju: stupid me


cegprakash: too many steps

cegprakash: can be very slow

Zenoscave: nope.

Zenoscave: Works in O(n^3) fastest known algo for cost assignment while using python, do you prefere deque from collections or queue?

Zenoscave: heapqueue

Doju: i'm using collections.deque

cegprakash: n^3? yuck

thethiny: deque cuz of popleft

Zenoscave: ceg brute force is n!

Zenoscave: trust me just try it. or save it till after competition for consideration

ZarthaxX: Zenoscave i dont think hungarian makes sense here

Zenoscave: Why not ZarthaxX?

ZarthaxX: for assigning pellets objectives i mean

ZarthaxX: the costs are not independant of others decisions

ZarthaxX: paths cross etc

Zenoscave: Ah that makes sense.

Zenoscave: Well time to fix that...

ZarthaxX: hi btw

ZarthaxX: pewpew :O

Zenoscave: pewpewpew

Doju: whatever

Doju: im submitting this and never touching it again unless its timing ouyt

Icebox: pewpewpew

dbdr: kovi, staying up all night? :)

Zenoscave: Hi Icebox

Zenoscave: long time

Icebox: long time indeed

Zenoscave: Took a break?

Icebox: missed last contest

Icebox: so yeah, kinda

Default avatar.png SparshMc07: where r u guys from?

Default avatar.png abuhuraira071: You can see via profile.

Chkoupinator: are there always 4 big pellets?

Icebox: yes

Chkoupinator: thanc


solaimanope: epic ending

cegprakash: why isn't the clock blinking

cegprakash: solaimanope

Icebox: not yet

cegprakash: Icebox cheer for me

Icebox: I think down from 4h

Icebox: I'd rather not :upside_down:

cegprakash: have u ever lived inside an Icebox Icebox

ZarthaxX: :face_palm:

Icebox: ofc

Icebox: my natural habitat

ZarthaxX: i live inside those

cegprakash: wow

cegprakash: cold hurts me

cegprakash: I loves heat

cegprakash: my rank is 69

cegprakash: me likes that

VicHofs: arguably better than rank 1

cegprakash: yes

cegprakash: 69 > 1

Default avatar.png RustyCrown: is the outside of the tunnels considered wall tile?

cegprakash: sometimes yes sometimes not

BenjaminUrquhart: "vell yes but actually no"

BenjaminUrquhart: ok so

BenjaminUrquhart: apparently my bot sucks at late-game exploration

BenjaminUrquhart: it does really well in the beginning and drops the ball in endgame

Default avatar.png ashikujjaman: what is the extra statement in gold league?

VicHofs: plus a ton of other stuff same here BenjaminUrquhart

VicHofs: lol

BenjaminUrquhart: none

cegprakash: I have lot of todos but I'm stuck on this bug

Kellthazar: ashikujjaman none

Default avatar.png ashikujjaman: so it's the problem about efficiency?

eulerscheZahl: wow. bots improved a lot during the night

ashelkov: not sleep is a secret))

Icebox: jesus it's 5am

eulerscheZahl: 5:15

Default avatar.png RustyCrown: whats a good way to handle collisions

eulerscheZahl: good morning

BenjaminUrquhart: eulerscheZahl I dropped 300 places

Icebox: morning toad :wave:

BenjaminUrquhart: they sure did implrove

BenjaminUrquhart: improve*

cegprakash: eulerscheZahl u can now submit ur bot which u are hiding

eulerscheZahl: i dropped by 100%

VicHofs: RustyCrown I calculate what move that if done would lead each stuck pac to the other and reverse it

eulerscheZahl: i was never hiding. my bot just sucks

cegprakash: just kidding

Default avatar.png RustyCrown: ok cool, ill keep that in mind

Default avatar.png RustyCrown: thanks

cegprakash: my bot is not going to closest super pellet

cegprakash: I deserve to be in wood

cegprakash: what am I doing here

VicHofs: also you can check whether a pac is stuck by a bool check of sorts pac.last_position == pac.position"

VicHofs: RustyCrown

kovi: morning

eulerscheZahl: hi

Default avatar.png RustyCrown: got it.

cegprakash: this is fun:

thethiny: is it normal that in brutaltester when I increase the number of threads the matches duplicate?

thethiny: t 1 n 5 gives me 20-80 t 5 n 5 gives me 100-0

thethiny: no matter how much I repeat

thethiny: @ceg you told him 200$ lmao

ashelkov: cegprakash, i've got a similar proposal- to sell the code :)

Default avatar.png RustyCrown: thats just sad honestly

eulerscheZahl: ceg :D

eulerscheZahl: i got almost the same but a different user

cegprakash: oh come on I spent 10 days and they offer just 200$

Default avatar.png RustyCrown: why bother paying for a ranking, they wont feel fulfilled by it

cegprakash: lol

cegprakash: do universities really pay their students for winning this?

cegprakash: :D

WINWINWIN: :/ this allows competitors to get "Unofficial" prizes

thethiny: guys in brutaltester do we have to select the league?

eulerscheZahl: ramdeath has prizes for his students too

eulerscheZahl: medals, one even got an internship in a software company

thethiny: @cegprakash when I was in uni

thethiny: I got 800$ for winning sth like this

WINWINWIN: Didn't know that this was that serious

thethiny: It really is serious

Durkin: huh, cool, but also can't imagine my college even considering it xD

Default avatar.png RustyCrown: its not that serious, but it does demonstrate knowledge and understanding, especially if you get high ranking

Cusumi: my colleagues cheating too that's why i asked you for helping me

BenjaminUrquhart: what

Default avatar.png RustyCrown: you just need to convince them durkin

WINWINWIN: understandable cusumi

Default avatar.png RustyCrown: then just report your colleague

Cusumi: i was on the top but somehow they find a code and they share it with each others

eulerscheZahl: i guess javatar2018 in on your school as well

eulerscheZahl: as he tried the same

Cusumi: yes

Cusumi: i was working all night and day

WINWINWIN: perhaps they collaborated and made their own code?

Cusumi: how do you know his username ?

eulerscheZahl: he contacted me with a similar question

WINWINWIN: What if people try to cheat the system or disturb the school/company leaderboards? Copying code between players is forbidden during contests. We'll thoroughly monitor players' submissions and we reserve ourselves the right to ban any player in case of abuse.

eulerscheZahl: my advice: talk to your teachers. your best classmates who are about to win prizes have to hold a short presentation

Cusumi: see

eulerscheZahl: one will notice when they didn't write the bot on their own

WINWINWIN: this is in the contest rules, I don't think people would risk it

eulerscheZahl: and another option: ask codingame (namely [CG]Thibaud) to have a look at those codes

eulerscheZahl: he has removed some copy-cats in the past already

Cusumi: if i talk to my teacher all what they will do is a recoding session they will ask them about code

Cusumi: and that is easy it no gonna solve the problem

Zenoscave: Cusumi talk to [CG]Thibaud. He can get them disqualified

thethiny: apparently there's a command called "WAIT" that we can use?

thethiny: static final Pattern PLAYER_ACTION_PATTERN = Pattern.compile(


eulerscheZahl: depends on their skill level. i'm pretty sure a beginner won't be able to read and understand my code. but Thibaud is a good option too

Zenoscave: That is a more reasonable approach than trying to cheat as well

EvModder: my bot in IDE is consistently losing to submitted code

EvModder: i am sad

eulerscheZahl: just do it soon (he should be in office in about 3-4h, still early in Europe)

WINWINWIN: thethiny not in the rules

Cusumi: nothing to do in this case even if i reported them everywhere

thethiny: @WINWINWIN it's in the code though

Cusumi: all my 10 days work goes for nothing

Zenoscave: Would you have won if they didn't cheat?

eulerscheZahl: hm, i could actually mention what's going on in the moderators room on discord. there it will be seen for sure. i can't promise any disqualifications but there's a good chance of investigation it least i think

Cusumi: i was on the top of course if they didn't cheat i won

thethiny: I think using the same code between ,ultiple users isn't against the rules, right?

eulerscheZahl: filtering the leaderboard for "California State University" i only find you

thethiny: is*

eulerscheZahl: how do i find your classmates?

WINWINWIN: don't know why you would use "WAIT" tithing, may as well not print a command :/

Cusumi: yes i think not problem to use the same code

thethiny: @WINWINWIN not printing anything will cause you to timeout

WINWINWIN: That is only if you don't print for all pacs

eulerscheZahl: thibaud will see when several users submitted the same code. how do we find your classmates who should be checked for possible cheating?

Cusumi: thank you guys for listening to me

Cusumi: eulerscheZahl dm me in private