VicHofs: Automaton2000 help me please
Automaton2000: it depends on the game
VicHofs: It's the Spring Challenge can you handle it? Automaton2000
Automaton2000: something to do with the way i have it
VicHofs: ...
VicHofs: yes?
SemChumboPT: Inky timed out ?!
VicHofs: yeah it happens sometimes
cegprakash: [CG]Thibaud I shared the company leaderboard in our official slack group that we are the only company from India in top 100
cegprakash: [CG]Thibaud they all got crazy
cegprakash: [CG]Thibaud and appreciated us
VicHofs: guys can anyone explain this
VicHofs: I tried to time my code because I was timing out right
cegprakash: and?
VicHofs: but apparently I'm taking over 100ms sometimes on my turns and not timing out at all
VicHofs: whereas sometimes I time out with a little bit over 50ms
VicHofs: my theory is that it sometimes considers the extra speed rounds but I'm not so sure; gotta run more tests
cegprakash: start ur timer after u read all the inputs
cegprakash: and stop ur timer before u print all the inputs
cegprakash: that should give u accurate timings
cegprakash: ignore the time for IO because IO is usually 0.000001 ms
VicHofs: after reading the inputs?
cegprakash: yes
VicHofs: doesn't the time while inputs are being read count though?
VicHofs: I put my time() after reading the input for the map, which happens before the start of the game
thethiny: nah
thethiny: I put my time() before the input
thethiny: and it says 80ms
VicHofs: what the heck
VicHofs: then something's definitely wrong here lmao
thethiny: I think the timer starts after you read the input
thethiny: in that case you can just hack it and do everything before you read
cegprakash: hey
cegprakash: CG isn't stupid
VicHofs: sup fam
VicHofs: yeah I think it's unlikely too
cegprakash: usually IO takes like 0.00001 ms
cegprakash: I'm sure they have some timeframe before which u have to read inputs quickly
cegprakash: if so I'll just add a Thread.sleep(1000) between reading every row
Icebox: IO does not take 10 nanoseconds, that's for sure
VicHofs: lol
cegprakash: I mean 0.00001 seconds
ZarthaxX: nice maths ceg
ZarthaxX: lol
Icebox: quickmaffs
VicHofs: 2 + 2 = 4
VicHofs: - 1
VicHofs: das 3
Icebox: QUICC MAFFS
VicHofs: everyday mans on the block
jrke: hey we use list.append(3,4) in python what is func in c++ is called
thethiny: vector
VicHofs: how dare you
thethiny: vector<int> myVector;
myVector.push(int(3));
thethiny: smoke trees
thethiny: using SOLID Principles has solved way too may bugs in my code
jrke: whats push back func in c++ for BFS
VicHofs: thanks @thethiny
cegprakash: u mean pushing in a queue jrke?
cegprakash: u need to use queue<int> Q; and use Q.push(x);
cegprakash: if u are using vector jrke u need to use push_back(x)
cegprakash: vec.push_back(x)
jrke: but it just push one int
jrke: i have to q.push(4,5)
TheManeatingFirefighter_41e2: Hi all, o
cegprakash: u can use a pair jrke
cegprakash: or a point class
cegprakash: if u have a Point class like
class Point{
int x; int y;
};
cegprakash: then u can do q.push(p)
cegprakash: if u are okay with pair
cegprakash: use pair<int, int> p;
cegprakash: and do q.push(p)
jrke: K
jrke: thanks
thethiny: @VicHofs lol thx for what
thethiny: guys when I'm using BFS, should I check the nearest point every turn, or should I do that once and just move until I reach it?
VicHofs: cooperating
VicHofs: snike trees
VicHofs: *smoke
VicHofs: gee
VicHofs: I'm slow today
fasil: heheee
thethiny: haha
VicHofs: see your girl in the park
VicHofs: that girl is an uckers
VicHofs: when the ting went quack quack quack
VicHofs: u man were ducking
cegprakash: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/463321749 Omg Kovi turn 28
cegprakash: no wonder he is #1
VicHofs: what happened there'=
VicHofs: did your pac move back and forth?
cegprakash: he did not go to his closest pellet
cegprakash: instead he was chasing me
cegprakash: only pros know when to chase and when not to chase
cegprakash: I am no pro
VicHofs: oh ok
VicHofs: cause I have the chase function too
VicHofs: but it's an all or nothing thing lol
eulerscheZahl: ceg i think he just wanted to look around the corner
eulerscheZahl: and your noobie but accidentally collided
cegprakash: he doesn't do future prediction?
cegprakash: coming up is definitely a bad move
cegprakash: if he has a sim
NapTown: his message changed when it saw you
**DeWill slaps NapTown around a bit with a large fishbot
NapTown: and again when you died
kovi: yes, its not pure luck
VicHofs: what the heck
VicHofs: DeWill ??
DeWill: sorry just trying something new NapTown... :)
NapTown: :D
NapTown: it felt great
cegprakash: what is DS and what is ST :O
cegprakash: kovi using cheat codes
eulerscheZahl: but ceg did a really dumb move here. i don't think that he assumes a dumb opponent in his prediction. would waste too many turns against good players
shashwat986: The collision seems accidental, but I'm not sure about looking around the corner either. Because there are definitely no pellets there, based on an opponent coming from there
shashwat986: I've understood DS to mean double-speed? Not sure what ST is
eulerscheZahl: true. no idea what he was thinking
thethiny: DS is Depth Search probably
thethiny: ST = Set Trap?
eulerscheZahl: or maybe it's random letters to confuse us :D
NapTown: that it is not
cegprakash: I don't track opponent positions yet eulerscheZahl
cegprakash: may be that's the diff between top 20 vs rest
kovi: sometimes my trueskill got lowered with a win vs. lowbie, is that normal?
eulerscheZahl: yes
eulerscheZahl: it's designed for real players. and the system assumes that you are at least that good
eulerscheZahl: it's possible that you got worse but still beat the noob
eulerscheZahl: it's even part of the FAQ of the trueskill site
Durkin: ah shoot, finally got my collision pathing fixed but still 19 from gold, just gotta' squeeze that last bit out of this man
jdsfklsd: Yo so what's this about a spring challenge?
Durkin: competitive pacman AIs xD it's a lot of fun-https://www.codingame.com/replay/463245297
thethiny: guys my BFS distance from point A to point B is not the same as from B to A
thethiny: what did I do wrong
NapTown: how far off are they
thethiny: I'll send replay
thethiny: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/463327353
thethiny: 😭
thethiny: frames 40+
thethiny: infinite loop
thethiny: maybe I should swap Flood Fill with shortest distance?
Ltrltrltr1234: Are yall good at clash of code? Can someone challenge me?
Ltrltrltr1234: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/12202802c06c7ea76c4cb0043fd3bdf1c716185
eulerscheZahl: you can challenge us by playing the contest
thethiny: hahaha
Dav1dS: @thethiny are the numbers in brackets the bfs from a to b and bfs dist from b to a?
thethiny: what do you mean
nguyenchithanh: elca
eulerscheZahl: it's his location
Dav1dS: oh lol
JohnCM: @thethiny
guys my BFS distance from point A to point B is not the same as from B to A
JohnCM: did you forget to add to the visited nodes list?
thethiny: From (19, 9) To (6, 1) Distance 114
From (6, 1) To (19, 9) Distance 117
JohnCM: if a node is visited, you shouldn't expand it out in the bfs loop
thethiny: I have a visited list and it's working fine
thethiny: that's what I don't get
JohnCM: hmm..
JohnCM: perhaps your bfs takes into account other pacs as well inside the calculation?
JohnCM: and sometimes there is a collision in one direction vs no collision in the other?
thethiny: I didn't add collision detection yet
NapTown: print the path and see what's happening
thethiny: I'm doing flood, so it's not one path
aCat: yeah clashes...
thethiny: I'll print the grid that it generates
JohnCM: hmm you should just print the path based on parent of the node
AndroidGoku: Bring it on !!
aCat: soryy - I was writing to some older history chat showed me
JohnCM: for each node, store the parent which is the previous node
JohnCM: then you can backtrack the entire path
JohnCM: it works even if you're doing flood fill as you can backtrack
thethiny: I don't think I'm following
thethiny: I understood that you want me to check once I reach the path who are the parents
thethiny: and make a path from them
thethiny: right?
JohnCM: ya
JohnCM: means like from maybe node 3 to node 6 the path is
thethiny: I will see, thanks
JohnCM: 3 -> 4 -> 5 -> 6
JohnCM: then you should print the path from 6 to 3 also
JohnCM: 6 -> 5 -> 4 -> 3
JohnCM: if there's any discrepancy, we then know what is wrong with the bfs
JohnCM: perhaps your bfs is not handling a roundabout correctly etc.
JohnCM: roundabout as in a passageway which loops
thethiny: 6 5 3
4 -1 1
2 1 0
thethiny: this is the grid
thethiny: it shows 0, 1, 3
thethiny: which is wrong distance calculation
JohnCM: what is the left side?
JohnCM: 6 5 etc.
thethiny: I'm testing it on a 3x3 grid
thethiny: and this is what it prints
thethiny: the distance calculation is wrong
thethiny: it should be
thethiny: 4 3 2
3 -1 1
2 1 0
JohnCM: hmm i am not sure what is the 3x3 grid calculating
JohnCM: ah.. the centre is a wall is it
thethiny: yes
JohnCM: and you start from bottom right and count to top left
thethiny: yes
JohnCM: i got your problem
wi_lius: how do you calculate the distance for a cell? `parentDistance + 1`?
JohnCM: you didn't store a node.cost in your node
JohnCM: and when you expand that node, the next node's cost is node.cost+1
JohnCM: don't use a global cost incrementer
thethiny: oh no I didn't
thethiny: I used global distance variable
JohnCM: must add one cost for each node you expand based on the previous node's cost
thethiny: thinking of it, I don't have F = G + H
JohnCM: ya just implement a node.cost variable for each node and you'll be fine
thethiny: so I will have to make a Point object, thanks
JohnCM: then when you hit your desired node.. then break the loop to avoid calculating everything
JohnCM: this is called "early stopping"
JohnCM: saves lots of time
thethiny: I'm trying to calculate everything in frame 0
thethiny: so that I don't calculate it next turns
thethiny: Thanks JohnCM, I will add nost cost
thethiny: node*
JohnCM: np
JohnCM: haha anyway i've run out of ideas to implement
JohnCM: now it is just finetuning my model by adjusting parameters
thethiny: good luck!
JohnCM: but haha the top 100 ppl are really hard to win
TrueBlur: How do you get harder questions on clash of code?
JohnCM: i optimize to some, i lose to the rest
thethiny: Let's hope for the best
JohnCM: are you in silve now thethiny?
JohnCM: oh haha nvm abt that qn
JohnCM: all the best for the coding
thethiny: I didn't submit anything for 5 days now :(
thethiny: at least I'm learning new things
thethiny: which is good
thethiny: From (19, 9) To (6, 1) Distance 122
From (6, 1) To (19, 9) Distance 122
thethiny: :D
thethiny: no it didn't work well
thethiny: 9 7 4
5 -1 2
3 1 0
thethiny: but how is it the same distance I don't understand
Doju: heyy everybody
BenWo: heya Doju
CoolGlitch: guys I think there a problem, most of the times when I read the pacs they feed me, some times they give an opponent pac but the mine flag is True, and they don't give me pas that faces is
jjdb210: You sure you aren't sharing ids? enemy's and good's have have the same id which can cause problems.
CoolGlitch: is it supposed to work like that?
Doju: how do you guys handle smarter pathfinding so you don't collide?
jjdb210: The data they are sending is almost certainly correct (or all of our bots wouldn't be working and you'd see more people mentioning it)... Odds are it's something with how you are parsing the data in.
BenWo: yeah, it's an ID per player
BenWo: I don't care for it either
Doju: i have an idea what i should do about it but no idea where to put that idea
Doju: pac class? universe class? maybe even grid??
BenWo: all my pathfinding stuff is currently in the Pac class
BenWo: but it's due for an overhaul
Doju: Huh.
BenWo: think I might create a "Brain" class
wi_lius: you need a God object
Doju: ohhh
thethiny: I FIXED MY BUG UGH
thethiny: I was updating the function BFS
Doju: so that all pacs belong to the god?
thethiny: but I was calling DFS
thethiny: UGHHHHHHHH
Doju: lol
Doju: well
thethiny: at least it works now
Doju: at least it's fixed now :P
thethiny: finally
thethiny: I can beat Inky
wi_lius: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_object
thethiny: technically I can't cuz idk how to move 2 everytime with speed
JohnCM: all the best thethiny
thethiny: thank you JohnCM so much for the help
JohnCM: @thethiny, that is easy to do
JohnCM: instead of returning the node.parent, return the node.parent.parent
JohnCM: if it is None, then return node.parent
thethiny: hmmm
JohnCM: basically, return 2 searches from your pac position
JohnCM: not one
thethiny: okay 2 searches will work
thethiny: thanks!
thethiny: I'll search for 2 if it works, else 1
JohnCM: ya
JohnCM: or if you find it difficult to do so
JohnCM: just ask the pac to go to the end goal
JohnCM: don't need to care about the intermediate step
thethiny: my problem is when I'm next to a surrounded block
JohnCM: i think you should be able to get to silver even without intermediate pathfinding
Doju: hm, isn't a god object.. a bad thing?
wi_lius
BenWo: lol according to that wikipedia link it's not great
JohnCM: hm what do you mean by surrounded block?
thethiny: example, if I'm at 21, 9 and I need to go 21, 10
https://www.codingame.com/replay/463339201
NapTown: it will still go there, you'll just have to stop on the speed round before coming back
JohnCM: yea for speed wise
JohnCM: you can't do double step in and out
JohnCM: which is a real constraint
NapTown: because you can't change destination
JohnCM: well sometimes i pass by an alley full of pellets, but because it is not in my speed turn, i don't see it
wi_lius: @Doju in real world software engineering - yes. When you need to hack something together that works, might as well skip all the concers where to put what and have everything in a single place
JohnCM: they really should let you see all the pellets your pac passes by
JohnCM: my algo will improve tremendously with that
Doju: wi_lius that's a solid argument. I'll consider just shoving everything in the same thing if i don't find any better solution soon
Doju: thanks
Doju: JohnCM you don't?
Doju: whatt
NapTown: JohnCM that's part of the challenge but yeah it would be easier
Doju: so if you speed through an intersection you don't get info on it
wi_lius: @Doju that's what I do with Scala: a few data classes and one more class with all the methods
NapTown: if it's the speed round you get no input, hence no info
Doju: wi_lius okay, sound reasonable
JohnCM: ya i was watching a replay of mine against kovi
JohnCM: i lost by 1 pellet
Doju: right, NapTown.
JohnCM: and that was the reason
JohnCM: haha
JohnCM: now we're talking about 1-2 pellet difference for the bots to determine victory
BenWo: time to explore new strategies
Zandy156: I feel like I'm just telling my bot what not to do and hoping it understands and stops doing it.
NapTown: i thought about syncing the speeders with the intersections but haven't gotten to it, and won't
Doju: NapTown that's basically the idea that i'm gonna try to do
JohnCM: well there's one suggestion i have for a mediocre bot
JohnCM: eat whatever pellets you see next to you, until unable to.
then go back to spreading yourself out
JohnCM: but haha it is still an art to decide which pellets lead to higher returns in the long run
NapTown: a good starting point
Doju: ah this is so wonderful
Doju: instead of adding actual tuples to my pos his
Doju: i can now just throw the cells themselves there
Doju: and it'll just work <3
NapTown: nice
BenWo: that sounds lovely :)
thibpat: Hi :wave: It's :sparkles: Spring Challenge time :sparkles: with a focus on better pathfinding in JavaScript https://twitch.tv/thibpat
JohnCM: nice one thibpat
JohnCM: do you do regular streams of this?
thethiny: yes
thethiny: he keeps doing this every few days
anid: Any idea who the silver boss is?
thethiny: it's me!
NapTown: Clyde
WINWINWIN: I am attempting to log into discord but I am getting this error:
WINWINWIN: new login location detected
thethiny: go to your email
thethiny: and allow yourself in
WINWINWIN: Thanks thethiny
351062: kovi : do you use a fancy enemy tracking with some kind of brute-force or some basic floodfill stuff ?
kovi: multiple heuristic
Neumann: would you classify those as "brute-force" ? :D
kovi: nope
Neumann: dayum
JohnCM: should be something based on countdown and speed if i may guess
JohnCM: i have been trapped at the start of the game before after transforming
JohnCM: haha.. it is not bad
solaimanope: why does so many top contestants use C++?
aCat: because its fast
lifetimeLearner007: yeah, I've that question too
solaimanope: Currently Top 10 has 9 C++ users
aCat: and they have high-level proficiency in it
lifetimeLearner007: either top contestants use c++ or only c++ users get to be in top 10... which one is it?
Durkin: Doesn't hurt that you've got a lota' colleges that teach that as the primary starter language either
solaimanope: I am better at C++ than Java. But I don't have the confidence to manage a code this big in C++.
NapTown: probably the top contestants choose a fast language
JohnCM: oh shouldn't it be the case you should use the langauge that you are confident in
MattSOrme: watching kovis bot is like watching a master class in what i want mine to do
lifetimeLearner007: but the speed of cpp makes a difference in top leagues i think
solaimanope: Kovi are you doing some sort of simulation?
lifetimeLearner007: monte carlo maybe?
kovi: not real one, just many partial heuristics
kovi: no monte carlo (yet)
Neumann: :o
solaimanope: I am struggling in defense.
eulerscheZahl: i did not expect that answer
lifetimeLearner007: :no_mouth:
jrke: hey anybody knows how to return two or more variables from function in c++?
solaimanope: use tuple and tie()
kovi: its easy to see that im fully deterministic
Neumann: return an array, a vector, or a custom class
jrke: K can i return pair
lifetimeLearner007: or u can pass an mutable argument
eulerscheZahl: i'm deterministic too. yet i have a search
kovi: oh, i said you surprised on no monte carlo
eulerscheZahl: being deterministic just simplifies debugging
eulerscheZahl: surprised on no search
eulerscheZahl: i don't have monte carlo either
eulerscheZahl: discarded the idea
kovi: i didnt say i have no search, i said i have no full simu
lifetimeLearner007: there's the catch
eulerscheZahl: ok. i don't have that either, regarding collisions
TrentT: Wow finally rank 1 in bronze
TrentT: Too many dumb assumptions
lifetimeLearner007: well done TrentT
solaimanope: I still haven't got out of the BFS that I wrote on day 1. I wanted to do some simulation, but the time limit may not allow it.
ashikujjaman: can I play my bot with diffrent levels bot?
lifetimeLearner007: that's why they have time limit for each turn
Icebox: Anyone has gotten brutaltester to work for this contest?
WINWINWIN: @Icebox what does the brutaltester do?
Icebox: It tests
Icebox: quite brutaly too
solaimanope: brutaltester needs a referee right?
Icebox: it's a tool for playing games offline
Icebox: yeah solaimanope
solaimanope: has anyone made the referee yet?
Icebox: yes, the contest creators
Icebox: :D
Icebox: https://github.com/CodinGame/SpringChallenge2020
dbdr: eulerscheZahl why so much hate?
thethiny: what is brutaltester
eulerscheZahl: the referee is public. but needs a few modifications for the brutaltester
eulerscheZahl: huh?
NapTown: cool map: seed=-6738813856712879100
eulerscheZahl: did i say anything wrong?
solaimanope: has anyone made the modification? It would be helpful
solaimanope: I am in top 10 for a few moments :D
dbdr: https://i.snipboard.io/jc9CIu.jpg
eulerscheZah
eulerscheZahl: oh, the evil toad
eulerscheZahl: but i'm not going up
solaimanope: from Futurama
dbdr: oh, one draw. and just won now :D
kovi: oh, daiver19 is also toad
MSmits: seems like it matters a lot who submits
JohnCM: haha euler keeps trapping my pieces
eulerscheZahl: i'm sure you deserved it
MSmits: euler is a killer bot and pulls me down
eulerscheZahl: for not being careful
MSmits: my bot is stupid when it comes to trapping and being trapped
eulerscheZahl: for being trapped i agree
MSmits: how so
JohnCM: haha but i am winning in cases when you trap and miss the super pellets
MSmits: it doesnt trap anyone
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/463356697
frame 38...
JohnCM: so you gotta watch out for those cases
kovi: same here. i have no self tracking
eulerscheZahl: i escape and then return to the danger
MSmits: I fixed that for my bot
MSmits: its the one thing on my bot that was easy
MSmits: on my list
MSmits: just look back 1 turn see if somethign was there
eulerscheZahl: i prefer generic solutions
MSmits: sure me too, but it's not always possible for this contest
eulerscheZahl: :(
MSmits: if you floodfill the opponent from the moment he disappears, your pac will freeze
kovi: yep, its much shorter than ooc
MSmits: he wont be able to go anywhere
MSmits: so i look 1 turn back. 2 might be worth it
dbdr: here is a bug I need to fix: https://i.snipboard.io/KEOfVw.jpg
solaimanope: dbdr how did you test?
dbdr: it's a unit test
Tiramon: kill_eueler is a nice testcase
kovi: maybe its just flaky
solaimanope: are you testing it locally?
lifetimeLearner007: kovi, being the top guy, how much time per day are you spending for this contest? I'm curious to know.
dbdr: yes, solaimanope
kovi: too much...not always actively, but starting new test or submit
solaimanope: Is there any feature in CG to filter out games which have failed and caused a timeout?
eulerscheZahl: no
solaimanope: It would have been helpful if they added it.
Doju: solaimanope that'd be superr handy
kovi: use euler tooling
eulerscheZahl: i found no timeout in 121 matches for you solaimanope
kovi: or ask him :)
solaimanope: thanks euler
eulerscheZahl: ocean of code was fun regarding timeouts
solaimanope: how to get this tool?
Doju: yeah how can we use it?
thethiny: 4 days left
thethiny: :(
eulerscheZahl: https://eulerschezahl.github.io/OceanOfCode/ooc_stats.html
that's timeouts in legend league after a full month of contest
eulerscheZahl: i didn't publish the tool, as you have to download each game individually. stressing the servers
Doju: okay
eulerscheZahl: but check https://www.codingame.com/playgrounds/53705/contest-tools-and-workflow/introduction
eulerscheZahl: gives you the introduction to do it yourself
Doju: sure, thanks eulerscheZahl
solaimanope: thanks!
Doju: Oh there's even python code handy
Doju: nice
eulerscheZahl: which you can run in the browser :tada:
thethiny: #30/2461 without submitting, this is bad
eulerscheZahl: tech.io supports docker, so you can pretty much add whatever you want
eulerscheZahl: pretty cool. to bad we don't have that for codingame
cegprakash: 10% mutation choice performing too bad
cegprakash: my previous mutate full sim performs better
solaimanope: are you doing Machine Learning?
eulerscheZahl: i bet genetic algorithm
eulerscheZahl: but he won't succeed
tekki: hi all
Doju: hi
Rprades: I tried genetic also, but could not fine a good option (rank 66 atm)
jdsfklsd: For clash of code I noticed that python has an edge when it comes to string manipulation problems compared to c++
Doju: isn't python pretty damn good for clash of code since performance is not an issue?
jdsfklsd: but i dont like using python so rip
thethiny: true
cegprakash: I won't succeed? eulerscheZahl? I'm already on gold
cegprakash: and my best rank was 110
eulerscheZahl: oh, you call that success?
eulerscheZahl: but admittedly better than your usual struggle with the lower bosses
Icebox: xD
Doju: lol
TinfoilSaint: sik
cegprakash: :'(
cegprakash: roasted
[CG]Thibaud: you have a brother eulerscheZahl : daiver19
eulerscheZahl: i know. he's doing well on topcoder
eulerscheZahl: https://www.topcoder.com/challenges/30122730?tab=submissions
beating me there :(
cegprakash: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/463382833 eulerscheZahl timeout
eulerscheZahl: i know ceg, this submit is broken :(
cegprakash: u always timeout against me
eulerscheZahl: was an infinite loop in my new feature
eulerscheZahl: tested one match. and it was that one "lucky" game where it didn't fail
cegprakash: I want to find the intersection of two points given that the distance between two points is 2
Rprades: does anyone know how many usually are promoted to legend? is it around 10-20, or more around 50? it is my first "serious" contest here, so thinking about it!
Quidome: The last time it was 10
alexandreb09: Hu guys, does anyone can help me with Winamax Sponsored Contest puzzle ?
cegprakash: it could be x1,y2 or x2,y1 or (x1+x2)/2, (y1+y2)/2
cegprakash: anything else I'm missing
Quidome: eventually ended up around 70 players in legend
Durkin: God i'm so confused- must have added something stupidly tiny but important 3 hours ago, because reverting promoted me from 170 to Gold, and I cant find what changed for the life of me
Rprades: Thanks Quidome
solaimanope: Quidome around how many games are played in legend league for ranking?
Quidome: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
jrke: hey whats wrong in these two lines c++
solaimanope: I couldn't qualify for legend league in my last participation. I was frustrated from all those traps.
Quidome: legend is tough
Quidome: never been there :)
AntiSquid: only twice, im bad :/
fasil: y u here
Quidome: cegprakash if it is distance 2, it can be around the corner...
Quidome: so you could end up with .5 in x or y direction
perseverent: how do I know one of may pac has died
Doju: perseverent if it's not visible it's dead
cegprakash: perseverent u don't get in input
Doju: and in silver and above you also get dead pacs in input
Quidome: Your pac is no longer on the list or hast status DEAD
AntiSquid: lol feels like a CSB rule
Quidome: Don't know which one actually, because i filter the dead
perseverent: I am sure I receive ifo about the dead one
perseverent: info
perseverent: funny
perseverent: maybe a bug
Quidome: OK than type is DEAD
AntiSquid: because you are in silver .
Quidome: Only in silver and up BTW
Quidome: :)
perseverent: oh
perseverent: I see
perseverent: thanks
perseverent: is is in the rules?
Quidome: yes
sgalasso: Hello everyone, is there 12 996 players or 4452 on the challenge I don't get it ?
perseverent: typeId
Quidome: 4452 submitted
perseverent: I missed that
perseverent: OK
perseverent: thanks
sgalasso: Oh ok tks
Quidome: still an awfull lot :)
sgalasso: Yes yes ^^'
Quidome: cegprakash you there?
Tiramon: almost 13k registered and around 4.5k submitted a bot sgalasso
cegprakash: yes Quidome
Quidome: solved your middle problem?
Quidome: I am needing that too :)
cegprakash: I don't want middle I want intersection of two points :D
cegprakash: so I was trying 3 intersections
Quidome: What do you mean by intersection of 2 points?
cegprakash: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/52737673-bd3a-4bf9-a71a-5a79b8d1dd47
cegprakash: there are 3 possible intersections for A and B
Quidome: I got invalid paste on that
cegprakash: A#
- B
cegprakash: and
cegprakash: A
B
Quidome: yes, exactly
cegprakash: anything more?
cegprakash: or just 3
cegprakash: x1, y2
x2, y1
mid point
cegprakash: I tried these 3
Quidome: well the horizontal one, but that's sort off the same
Quidome: and btw, one of the two diagonal ones is alway a wall
Quidome: funny was looking at this also :)
Quidome: But we sorted it out\
Quidome: thnxs
cegprakash: cool
Quidome: you don.t need the divide in the diagonal case
Quidome: (x1, y2), and (x2, y1) will do
cegprakash: yes
cegprakash: do u precompute these
Quidome: no
cegprakash: or calculate dynamically
krawacik3: Anyone considered min-max algorithm?
Quidome: i use min_max on one move
eulerscheZahl: too high branching i think
Quidome: with a lot of pruning
Quidome: and grouping
Quidome: was a lot work
AntiSquid: contest got very difficult, hard to move forward
Quidome: what's your position?
eulerscheZahl: then turn around and collect the pellets in a different row
krawacik3: I mean, its really high complexity, but maybe someone uses it for at least 4-5 generations
AntiSquid: somewhere 80 to 100 Quidome ?
Quidome: oh, yes, I am struggling to get into gold :D
JohnCM: wow i added one modification and now i'm top 50
Xoangur: ): I'm struggling to get into silver
JohnCM: actually i removed one modification
JohnCM: lol
AntiSquid: i am struggling to get top 50 :(
Quidome: JohnCM :thumbsup:
AntiSquid: again
JohnCM: counter-meta, works well against euler's bot
AntiSquid: lol
AntiSquid: ah you caught euler in a bad spot on the leaderboard
jdsfklsd: bruh i suck at c++ for these challenges
jdsfklsd: if i have to convert a string to int that's a wrap for me
AntiSquid: oh so Neumann did join afterall
Neumann: o/
eulerscheZahl: and with his main account now
AntiSquid: how high was your alt before you joined?
eulerscheZahl: oh, this submit is running good...
or lucky?
JohnCM: i guess lucky
Neumann: I was 30 on my alt
Tiramon: great last ideas i have to improve are all hard one ... increase performance of search, predict pellets eaten by opponent ...
eulerscheZahl: what is your alt?
ShannonNorris97: Do any of the high level bot programmers on Codingame have Youtube Channels? I'd be curious to see what their code looks like across the various competitions/competitive modes. It's probably not in their best interest because of potential code copying, but I thought it was worth asking
JohnCM: oh i'm talking abt my submit, not neumann
Neumann: My alt shall remain secret
AntiSquid: obv hard to tell if lucky or not, i don't know if my current submit is an improvement or pure luck :/
eulerscheZahl: i want to know whom i don't have to fear anymore
AntiSquid: you're at 2 euler
Neumann: Don't worry it sleeps in the bottom half of silver league
eulerscheZahl: as i said: submit doing well so far
eulerscheZahl: or lucky?
eulerscheZahl: but i improved the bot, not just resubmitting
AntiSquid: thought you talk about john since he replied
eulerscheZahl: no. i do it like others and just talk about myself
Neumann: Feel free to talk about your enemy tracking
JohnCM: wow euler
Neumann: i'm struggling on that
JohnCM: i wanna see how well mine does against your new bot now
eulerscheZahl: same
eulerscheZahl: tracking is a pain
AntiSquid: is enemy tracking required for top 30-50 or what
JohnCM: next up i'm gonna implement some trapping already XD
JohnCM: payback time
Neumann: Maybe I also should code a proper search instead of a naive depth 1 heuristic
WINWINWIN: eulerscheZahl nearly 1st?
eulerscheZahl: finally something seems to be working \o/
JohnCM: depth 1 heuristic can't go far
eulerscheZahl: i can smell legend league already
AntiSquid: magically got into top 50
JohnCM: :) i knew it euler, always had faith in your bot
Tiramon: grats AntiSquid ;)
JohnCM: i've been training against yours since day 1
AntiSquid: thx but it's not enough
Ramzel: What is the Memory limit?
eulerscheZahl: 768MB
AntiSquid: i still have two major bugs in my bot which i am aware of, so does that mean everyone around my rank has some ridiculous bugs in their bots?
Ramzel: U mean euler walk in dfs tree or euler cycle? :D
JohnCM: i think by sat/sun most bugs will be gone
AntiSquid: you'd think so
lifetimeLearner007: what is depth1 heuristic?
cegprakash: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/463410075 frame 16 omg kovi
Tiramon: damn gold has so close matches ... https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/463365572
AntiSquid: just plan 1 turn ahead lifetimeLearner007
eulerscheZahl: ceg that frame 16 isn't even that brilliant. you could just move instead of SPEED
eulerscheZahl: then you win the row of pellets
Tiramon: what depth are you guys using currently?
lifetimeLearner007: thanks AntiSquid. But then how does planning few moves ahead help? we don't know what commands the opponent is gonna make right?
cegprakash: eulerscheZahl meant about my death
AntiSquid: indeed Tiramon lots of losses are just by 1-5 points diff
eulerscheZahl: i think the smartest move is to just keep bumping
eulerscheZahl: me too. he converted to scissors and you lost
cegprakash: yes but why did he switch
AntiSquid: i call mine depth 0, no depth guaranteed Tiramon
cegprakash: how did he know I was a paper
cegprakash: I was in the fog
llllllllll: you bumped
eulerscheZahl: you colldided
cegprakash: oh damn
cegprakash: so what do I do?
cegprakash: u said smartest move is bumping
cegprakash: but I lost there
eulerscheZahl: you keep moving and don't speed
AntiSquid: everyone top gold does the switch i think ceg
Tiramon: keep the cooldown for a switch when bumping
eulerscheZahl: then you reach the collision cell 1 turn earlier
eulerscheZahl: so he can't kill you
WINWINWIN: Well done cegprakash
Csipcsirip: I don't switch yet at all
eulerscheZahl: i only do when it's a 100% kill
eulerscheZahl: if you see me switching without killing, it's a bug atm
Ramzel: What is bumping
llllllllll: collision
Tiramon: 2 pacs collide and stay where they were
Ramzel: Ok thanks
eulerscheZahl: i like the word bump
JohnCM: lots of losses are 1-5 points difference unless you get eaten up by euler
eulerscheZahl: yeah, thiny differences in harvesting are quite important
eulerscheZahl: coordinating your pacmen and guessing where the opponent has been
JohnCM: wow i never thought i would see this day of top 50
eulerscheZahl: yet you are top40 even
JohnCM: haha i feel satisfied alr abt the progress in this comp. legend or not. this is a personal accomplishment
JohnCM: how?? this small tweak is so good?
JohnCM: it improved 100+ places
eulerscheZahl: you are doing well for your first contest
JohnCM: thanks
[CG]Thibaud: true
JohnCM: hope to code something in C++ next time for monte carlo
eulerscheZahl: i remember my first: was doing well to a certain point. then i just dropped and couldn't improve no matter what i was trying
JohnCM: thanks thibaud
Ramzel: Guys, do u know sth about neural networks in this game?
Ramzel: It should be the best.
Ramzel: Does anyone do sth like that?
JohnCM: don't think it works cause of variable size boards and pacs
eulerscheZahl: too complicated and high uncertainty of what's going on
JohnCM: unless... you train the neural networks for all maps
JohnCM: which is a hell of a task
eulerscheZahl: there are some games where a neural network is dominating, e.g. coders strike back
JohnCM: i guess being symmetrical it reduces the board possibilities
JohnCM: but still there are so many
JohnCM: i would think GA would be a better bet
JohnCM: you control how risk taking each PAC is
Ramzel: Yeah but as input to nn u can just put the close location of each pac
Tiramon: Oh i guess a NN would work, but you have to trains it alot, also you would have to give all weights to the CG IDE, and the ide has a size limit for code
can remember someone complaing that his weights were to much ;)
cegprakash: 4% caliberated to #46 adding that anti bump
cegprakash: eulerscheZahl
JohnCM: well technically you could hard code your weights in as a hexadecimal string
Tiramon: even then you will need more than 10 weights ...
Tiramon: and each weight will a few characters
Tiramon: *will need
JohnCM: well last i checked the most complex neural networks need about 1 million weights
JohnCM: now maybe more
JohnCM: so 1 million * double memory space (64 bits)
JohnCM: maybe 64 million bits
eulerscheZahl: hexadecimal? how inefficient :D
https://github.com/pb4git/Nash-DQN-CSB-Article#passing-the-100ko-code-size-limit
JohnCM: wow base 85 nice
Tiramon: last size limit i know is at 100k
eulerscheZahl: and the limit is 100k chars, not bytes. so some use fancy unicode
hearthewarsong: How are the final result calculated? If I get into legend ( probably I wont), do I only play against other legends players? For example if I end up with 2 ai. One with 40% winrate against top players, and 99% agaist weaker, and an other with 45% vs top players and 90% vs weaker players, which one is better at the end of the contest?
eulerscheZahl: trueskill ranking matters (you can google that)
Tiramon: for multiplayer scores the 'True Skill' algorithm of Microsoft is used http://bit.ly/TrueSkill
eulerscheZahl: and for legend there will be a final rerun, giving everyone about 1k extra battles
eulerscheZahl: to stabilize and counter lucky submits
Tiramon: and yes if you are in a league, you only play against players that are also in that league
eulerscheZahl: and for gold and below it's just finished pending submits and calling that the final leaderboard
eulerscheZahl: you can still promote after the contest ends and get more battles in the higher league
Ramzel: visited[u.x+vx[g]][u.y+vy[g]]=true, from[x][y][u.x+vx[g]][u.y+vy[g]]=u, cost[x][y][u.x+vx[g]][u.y+vy[g]]=cost[u.x][u.y]+1, q.push({u.x+vx[g], u.y+vy[g]});
Ramzel: need to Find bug in this spagetti
AntiSquid: ramzel you could use the maximum possible board size as input but then you have a lot of empty cells ... maybe you'd have to look into convolutional neural networks and it gets complicated and it's a lot of work, but yes sure possible if you spend time on just doing that, but no idea how you upload your bot to CG afterwards
Ramzel: Thanks for so much feedback. But I was only asking. I dont have anough time to write nn
AntiSquid: lol
AntiSquid: no ambition Ramzel
Ramzel: ;c
Tiramon: oh and about your line of ...
what about making more than one line out of that?
Clagus: it's impossible to tell, which way an enemy pac has gone right? and also when it's using Speed, he can rush in front of you, cross your view, and didn't get noticed right?
Ramzel: I did it :D
Tiramon: even saving vy[g] into a seperate var should make it easier readable
Tiramon: Clagus you know where he is able to got and when you see one of those locations and he is not there you can reduce the amount of locations where he can be
Tiramon: but yes if you don't see an enemy pac for some time the locations grow exponentially
Clagus: I just wish we had the info about which direction the enemy pac did take when he was dissapearing from my view
Tiramon: you could also reduce this amount if you see a pellet is still in place where you expected him to walk by
Tiramon: so many possibilities and only 50ms time ;)
Clagus: yeah ;(
Clagus: and I code in c#...
Tiramon: the language is only relevant when you know how to right hight performant code in that language imho
Clagus: true
Tiramon: i guess my java code is more performant than when i 'try' to write that code in c# or c++
Illedan: And C# is fast enough if the algorithm is right.
Clagus: especially after newest changes in c#, it can be used quite efficiently, but I'm not that skilled :P
Clagus: yet!
Clagus: :D
cegprakash: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/463430666 this is insane
cegprakash: 3 kills all chases
cegprakash: looks all planned
WINWINWIN: Nicely done Wala!
Ramzel: What league is it?
Doju: woah wala, that first kill from behind the corner
Doju: :ooo
Tiramon: yes crossing are quite dangerous
thethiny: you just got unlocky @ceg
Doju: wait not first kill lol
Doju: third
thethiny: he never saw you once
thethiny: unless he calculated based on his own pacs
Doju: what on earth
thethiny: which is very smart
Doju: that's amazing
Clagus: first kill seems lucky
cegprakash: first kill I agree
thethiny: here on the other hand, my pacs decide to riot and change their paths on their own
Doju: maybe even the first one was planned
cegprakash: 2nd and 3rd kills are master planned
Clagus: second one too :P
Ramzel: Can i see the compile comand?
Doju: red pac 0 did see blue pac 1
eulerscheZahl: how is any of this planned?
Ramzel: for c++
Doju: oh hold on nevermind
eulerscheZahl: i see one player collecting and another one walking into
Doju: i'm dumb
Tiramon: Ramzel? you mean the parameters like mentioned here ? https://www.codingame.com/faq
Doju: technically you could predict that the leftmost pac goes for the super pellet
cegprakash: 3rd kill eulerscheZahl
Doju: and there are only 2 possible paths left
Doju: but the 3rd kill was super neat anyways
Ramzel: Yes thanks
eulerscheZahl: he keeps going in that direction after the kill
eulerscheZahl: so probably just wanted to go there
Ramzel: I was wondering if falg O3 is used
eulerscheZahl: you code is compiled without any optimizations
eulerscheZahl: you can use pragmas to speed it up a little
Ramzel: Lets check if pragmas are allowed
eulerscheZahl: they are
Doju: umh
eulerscheZahl: (this information is C/C++ specific)
Tiramon: if i play against him i don't see any masterfully planned kills
Doju: i'm trying to store different moving methods in a dict. those methods aren't static so they require an instance. Can i make the dictionary a class variable or do i seriously need to store it in the instance?
Doju: seems silly to store it in the instance since
Clagus: Tiramon but that could be highly map dependant, or just lucky as hell, because it that replay he would kill all 4 of them if not scissors block on frame 20
Doju: but the methods require an instance
eulerscheZahl: https://www.studytonight.com/python/python-static-keyword Doju
thethiny: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/463437730
Can't seem to get paths to work at all
thethiny: at all
Doju: yeah i'm doing that but since the methods that but since i call the instance methods from the class variable it doesn't work
Doju: so i need staticmethods?
Doju: :/
WINWINWIN: Doju, ig you dont pass self to the method it becomes static
Tiramon: if that wre planed kills it must be a really lucky game for him
i didn't have any game like that against him, and i started a few by now
eulerscheZahl: and he would be ranked much higher if it was planned
Clagus: Tiramon - ok, I guess it could be just map shape that did all of this...
Tiramon: he even missed some good chances to kill my bots if he was planing it
Tiramon: played the same seed against him
Tiramon: was a draw
eulerscheZahl: case closed
Tiramon: and only kill was one of his pacs died
dbdr: a broken clock is correct twice a day
thethiny: true
Tiramon: depends on how you break it ;)
Doju: :D
Clagus: :D
dbdr: :D
Doju: :D
dbdr: sometimes even 3 times a day
eulerscheZahl: leap hour?
dbdr: I doon't think there is such a thing :D
thethiny: During summe
dbdr: only leap seconds
thethiny: summer time
Doju: i mean leap seconds work too
thethiny: when u move the clock back 1 hour
dbdr: right
eulerscheZahl: daylight saving time, that's what I meant...
thethiny: Riddle me this:
thethiny: A guy was driving his car, and he saw 3 doors in front of him. Red, blue, and green/ Which door should he open first?
**dbdr knew, just teasing
AntiSquid: then just display a random time, 60 tries / minute, chances are much higher
fasil: corridoor
thethiny: :D
dbdr: thetiny the best one
Doju: monte carlo it
thethiny: the car door :D
eulerscheZahl: always switch doors, learned it from monty hall
dbdr: can I make up the rules now eulerscheZahl? :D
eulerscheZahl: wow, dropped again quickly. i guess i was just lucky :(
cegprakash: #69 I like my rank
dbdr: switching doors is obviously the best strategy: you can look what's behind while switching them
WINWINWIN: #800 :(
cegprakash: helps me be in the mood
Quidome: cegprakash I also like you rank :)
uvBoss: im stuck in bronze
uvBoss: :sob::sob::sob::sob::sob:
Illedan: eulerscheZahl, only 1 point between 11 and 3..
In that window it's just about luck and latest submits :P
cegprakash: uvBoss I reached gold with just going to closest PAC
uvBoss: wat????
eulerscheZahl: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
WINWINWIN: closest PAC using a BFS?
cegprakash: yes
uvBoss: closest PAC?
WINWINWIN: and cooperation?
cegprakash: yes cooperation
cegprakash: but cooperation was needed to get from silver to gold
cegprakash: didn't have that till silver
uvBoss: sigh
cegprakash: bronze to silver was pellet tracking
cegprakash: I'm in top 30
cegprakash: will I get my first T shirt?
WINWINWIN: T-shirt?
jrke: last pellet race
jrke: https://www.codingame.com/replay/463451607
eulerscheZahl: there are no tshirts this time
WINWINWIN: there are T-shirt prizes?
eulerscheZahl: usually there are. this time nope
ShannonNorris97: Yeah, it doesn't say anything about T Shirts in the prizes
eulerscheZahl: top20 usually
jrke: there is curved monitor for first ranker
offroff: why can I see dead pacs? Is that useful for anything?
eulerscheZahl: tracking
cegprakash: I don't use it yet offroff but I think top 10 use it in gold
offroff: hmm, alright, I guess maybe it make sense, otherwise you don't really know if an enemy died?
WINWINWIN: Congrats ValGrowth!
cegprakash: offroff thats right
cegprakash: because of accidents
offroff: yeah, and in some situations the enemy hides behind a corner and you won't know
offroff: didn't realize that :)
MattSOrme: If you don't code in c++ you aint getting a prize haha
MattSOrme: 8/10 top 10 are c++ other 2 are c#
Ramzel: Is it bcs of c++ speed?
MattSOrme: yh
MattSOrme: Should also give prizes to top for each language. Would encourage more languages
eulerscheZahl: in the past it was like that
offroff: would also encourage even more laziness from me
eulerscheZahl: tshirt for top50 + first per language
years ago...
offroff: I use javascript, too lazy to learn anything else
MattSOrme: CG getting cheap on us?
eulerscheZahl: some abused the system: promote to legend, submit crashing bot in obscure language
MattSOrme: Only 1 person using Objective-C and they're in 84th
eulerscheZahl: there are 4 D players now :o
MattSOrme: someone called atra is in gold, but his bot just sits still... is that a way of stopping other players from testing against him properly?
Uljahn: :scream_cat:
MattSOrme: AtrA*
JohnCM: maybe he submitted a buggy code accidentally
JohnCM: it'll be fixed by sunday probably
JohnCM: just take it as a free win
Uljahn: could be bot hiding :smirk:
AntiSquid: ya obv bot hiding
AntiSquid: but if your bot isn't top 10 material, what's the point?
cegprakash: I just added something nice.. hopefully top 20.. I'll take a break and come back tonight.. have to do office work :D
AntiSquid: you really did improve ceg
AntiSquid: but not top 20 lol
cegprakash: hey it's only 27% AntiSquid
MattSOrme: Maybe he is top 10...
MattSOrme: Hi ranked codingame player for sure
MattSOrme: high*
Tiramon: 48% and 29 ... don't think he reaches top20
AntiSquid: his rank fluctuates
AntiSquid: could reach top 10 if he gets lucky
AntiSquid: not enough luck ceg
AntiSquid: accidentally wrecked ceg now
JohnCM: wow amazing kovi has been dethroned
Doju: wow, that val guy is winning like every game
cegprakash: I rekt him on IDE
eulerscheZahl: https://twitter.com/valgrowth?lang=en
that level of confidence :D
eulerscheZahl: I want to know if it's luck or if the change is working, so I'd like to bring it up, but I don't want to lose my current ranking, so I'm conflicted.
lifetimeLearner007: well done cegprakash, ur score seems to be increasing. u might actually end up in top 20
cegprakash: what language is it eulerscheZahl
eulerscheZahl: japanese
cegprakash: ty lifetimeLearner007
eulerscheZahl: and english from a machine translation
cegprakash: translator is confused
cegprakash: can't read
cegprakash: it took it for french
Ramzel: Hunting supper Pellets works nice https://www.codingame.com/replay/463477938
cegprakash: I had to choose Japanese manually
eulerscheZahl: he would like to resubmit to see if it was luck but not lose the #1 spot for trying
Doju: cegprakash same
eulerscheZahl: so he just assumes #1 is justified
cegprakash: what's there to lose
Clagus: :D
cegprakash: 4 days left
cegprakash: If I'm #1 I would hide my bot
eulerscheZahl: the japanese users are an active community. sadly staying in their language
Doju: i dont get this :(
Doju: i'm defining some methods as a class attribute
Doju: and trying to call them from the instance using this https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19075843/dispatch-a-class-method
eulerscheZahl: http://ykawano.hatenablog.com/
https://valgrowth.hatenablog.com/
http://simanman.hatenablog.com/
https://tsukammo.hatenablog.com/
Doju: (methods in a dict, btw)
Doju: but it's just throwing an error when i define the dict
Doju: oh now it almost worked
Doju: nvm then
dbdr: > I tried implementing red and black trees in Ruby
> Conclusion
> I implemented it.
dbdr: :D
dbdr: translation might make it funnier than it is
Doju: :D
Doju: no he just snaps his fingers and it's done :D
eulerscheZahl: they even have their own search algos that get rarely mentioned here on chat. such as chokudai search
Zenoscave: what is chokudai
eulerscheZahl: read the blogs
Zenoscave: beam search related?
kovi: http://chokudai.hatenablog.com/
kovi: he is the strongest (if we consider topcoder open finals)
tsukammo: yes, beamsearch variants.
eulerscheZahl: http://ykawano.hatenablog.com/entry/2018/06/26/002228
BenWo: ugh, submitting
wlesavo: so chokudai search is kind of meme like smitsimax?
AntiSquid: no ooc PM on kawano's blog
Thiesjoo: What is smitsimax?
AntiSquid: some reinvented algo by msmistz
AntiSquid: solaimanop and jolindien, same avatar and almost same rank, different language though, coincidence? AutomatonNN
Psyho: wata is way stronger than chokudai
AntiSquid: well same character, no same avatar
WINWINWIN: I dont get it, why does cegprakash`s rank go till top 50 and suddenly come down to last in gold?
JohnCM: that happens when you resubmit
Doju: WINWINWIN maybe he introduced a bug
RockyMullet: lucky first games probably
cegprakash: because every submission is independent
JohnCM: if you roll 10 wins in first 10 games, your rank skyrockets very high
kovi: you must be right psyho
JohnCM: especially if you score a lucky win against the top 10
AntiSquid: because he didn't fixt'd his bugs WINWINWIN, and where is your avatar?
WINWINWIN: Thanks, L) AntiSquid will add an avatar now
kovi: neither active lately though
WINWINWIN: Got an avatar now
kovi: nice to see you back (and here) btw psyho. can we expect a last hour win submit?
WINWINWIN: why doesnt it show up AntiSquid?
wlesavo: refresh
Psyho: haha, probably not
WINWINWIN: tried refreshing twice
Psyho: I'm struggling :)
Psyho: just started writing something non-trivial but I had a 2+ years break from coding + I don't have too much experience with those kinds of contests
kovi: unlike with halite...you are on pair with recurse
eulerscheZahl: 2 years away, wins topcoder...
eulerscheZahl: by a huge margin
kovi: and that
Psyho: that topcoder win was very lucky - it was more like a puzzle that you had to solve
Psyho: and somehow people didn't do that and rushed to implement anything that works
eulerscheZahl: i liked the puzzle
Psyho: halite had a ton of depth and I'm usually good with problems/tasks that are incredibly complex
Psyho: but I have never really done a proper 2-player game where you can't ignore enemy moves
kovi: +fog of war. so it is complex
even though ooc seemed better
JohnCM: what's ooc by the way?
AntiSquid: ocean of code
AntiSquid: previous contest
JohnCM: i see..
AntiSquid: but imo this is less random
JohnCM: oh this is quite random indeed
JohnCM: random start points, random maps
Psyho: actually fog of war makes it more single player imho
AntiSquid: but it's symmetrical start, you know the initial state
AntiSquid: in ooc you didn't know the initial state
Psyho: i.e. more heuristic-based than chess-like
JohnCM: true
JohnCM: unless you can simulate the entire state 200 moves later
JohnCM: you have to rely on heuristics
JohnCM: if not can monte carlo through, with maybe a billion simulations
JohnCM: even a billion may be too little
cegprakash: https://www.codingame.com/replay/463503473 turn 12 I show mercy
Doju: JohnCM you need a quantum computer :d
JohnCM: or you need good state value approximations
AntiSquid: i like this more than ocean of code and unleash the geek combined, despite all of them having hidden info
JohnCM: cut off the search at a certain depth
kovi: true. i like heuristics. im not that good in finetuning a single algo
JohnCM: my algo has at least 10 heuristics
JohnCM: i finetune them against the top 10
AntiSquid: there got to be a perfect search for the top spot
JohnCM: but it doesn't work against the top 100. quite different playstyle
JohnCM: so it is a balance
JohnCM: kovi, can i ask roughly what is the win rate like to be #1 in leaderboard
cegprakash: just 60% against #2 is enough JohnCM
JohnCM: but you don't really fight with #2 much, you fight with the rest usually
AntiSquid: http://cgstats.magusgeek.com/app/spring-challenge-2020/valgrowth
AntiSquid: JohnCM
AntiSquid: looks like on recalc it's close tiberiu and kovi atm
AntiSquid: ah nvm
AntiSquid: kovi has bigger win rate vs val
AntiSquid: 88% win rate vs val @_@
JohnCM: how do you see win rate?
AntiSquid: click on their names
AntiSquid: it brings you to their stats
WINWINWIN: Really nice tool cgstats, who made it?
AntiSquid: some rock paper scissors effect at the top
AntiSquid: magus did WINWINWIN
JohnCM: wow yup
drykberg: some matches mine and the enemies pacs dont move, is this a known bug or something?
Tiramon: do you have a replay drykberg?
wlesavo: you probably timing out
cegprakash: drykberg those are speed turns I guess
Tiramon: that is what i guess ceg
drykberg: https://www.codingame.com/replay/463518069
drykberg: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/463518187
Tiramon: oh no it is just you output only one command per turn
drykberg: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/463517210
Tiramon: so only one command is handled
drykberg: but it cant be ^^
Tiramon: in https://www.codingame.com/replay/463518069 you send first turn 'MOVE 0 1 1|' so only pac id 0 is moved
drykberg: ive tried this almost 100 times on pinky this morning
drykberg: i saw that, but why it cant be ^^
Tiramon: that must be in your code
Tiramon: hard to tell you were it happens without knowing your code ;)
drykberg: happened 5 times in last 25 matches i think
Tiramon: propably an if that is triggered in special situations
Tiramon: for details i would need your code
drykberg: actually it happened every match
drykberg: sometimes mine sometimes opponents
drykberg: could it be because i put code before the game while loop?
dbdr: OK, I found my algo's name, now I can start implementing my bot
Tiramon: depends what code you put there
Tiramon: as i said without code i can just guess
drykberg: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/6f63a5f5-1900-4625-beb3-a487f0e2cfdb
Tiramon: that expired ...
drykberg: how to post code without it saying expired ^^
Tiramon: normaly it should work like this
R1FA: someone had the same pb, he was using '\n' between each commands
Tiramon: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/64b48b5e-9f04-46d1-afde-55b4b481248c
Tiramon: [CG]Maxime pastebin seems to be broken, it is always expired
Tiramon: send it to me per private msg
Tiramon: there no pastebin is created
drykberg: i have only 1 \n at the very end
drykberg: it all works normally, as expected vs pinky
drykberg: well, before the game loop i have 6 arrays each of size 201 initialized with null
drykberg: and 15 variables
drykberg: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/463526371
drykberg: does not happen vs pinky
TheSugarCoatedTaxidermist_3da7: Hello everyone,
goore: hi
TheSugarCoatedTaxidermist_3da7: i want working on a Leap motion project
TheSugarCoatedTaxidermist_3da7: i have keyboard and i want to click them thru leapmotion
Tiramon: drykberg, yes looks fine there ... but without code ...
Tiramon: leap is still alive?
TheSugarCoatedTaxidermist_3da7: but when i implement the leap motion code it appears under the keyboard and i cant access the keyboard with leap
TheSugarCoatedTaxidermist_3da7: yeah xD
do you prefer another sensor ?
Tiramon: no just havn't heard of leap for a long time
drykberg: its 400 lines of wannabe programmer trash, you dont want to see it ^^
TheSugarCoatedTaxidermist_3da7: EXACTLYYY
drykberg: i dont even know how to use a 2d array
drykberg: or pointers
Tiramon: but without i can't tell you why it sometimes works and sometimes does not ...
TheSugarCoatedTaxidermist_3da7: like i was trying to understand the cope so i can create the keyboard using js and implement leap with
drykberg: it wud be awesome if u took a look, but dont know how to paste it here as pastebin seems to be broken as of right now
Tiramon: sry never worked with leap, just was fascinated when they published it =(
Tiramon: use an external pastebin or post it in that private talk i just started with you
drykberg: how about this: 5 minutes ago i submitted code and was placed #36 in wood 1, now i re-submitted to see if that error comes up again and im placed #257 in wood 1?
Tiramon: if it sometimes only gives one command and sometimes for all .. that sounds as expected
drykberg: how do you get ranked though? because i did win more than i guess 75% of the matchups
Tiramon: for multiplayer scores the 'True Skill' algorithm of Microsoft is used http://bit.ly/TrueSkill
drykberg: so it doesnt matter if you win?
[CG]Maxime: if you win against someone you're expected to win, your score is not changed as much as winning against someone better than you
drykberg: ok read it, got it thanks
drykberg: this time i got placed #76
eulerscheZahl: Tiramon that's you change to report the broken pastebin
eulerscheZahl: oh i guess he's here because of your ping :thinking:
Tiramon: hope so =)
Adnmaster: i cant find an invalid syntax here: elif(ability_cooldowns[a]==0 and distanceTo(d, d2, pac_x[a], pac_y[a])>10): can someone help me?
Adnmaster: note: distanceTo is a function that i made
eulerscheZahl: test:
eulerscheZahl: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/c4785647-e662-4011-9a8a-66195b5270d4
eulerscheZahl: works again
Tiramon: yay
H1ggsb0s0n: does anybody know how the promotion to legend is done ? Is there another bot we'll have to defeat ?
Where can I find more information about the schedule and the promotion rules ?
AntiSquid: just like before H1ggsb0s0n
AntiSquid: top 15 or top 10 automatically promoted, rest need to beat up the boss
Tiramon: yes H1ggsb0s0n
Doju: Adnmaster i can't really find anything there
Doju: except maybe you need a space after elif? not sure
Tiramon: they will choose a bot from the ranking and then they will add it as boss
AntiSquid: also tomorrow 18:00 CET is legend release H1ggsb0s0n
Adnmaster: thanks Doju
H1ggsb0s0n: Thank you for the info, AntiSquid and Tiramon!
Doju: Though i have a suspicion that you forgot to close some parentheses
Adnmaster: hmm...
Doju: above that line
Adnmaster: can be
Adnmaster: i sent it to a syntax checker it said no error
Adnmaster: but codingame says error
Doju: is distanceTo a method or a function?
Adnmaster: function i think, i use def to make it
Doju: if it's a method it has to be instance.distanceTo
Doju: is it in a class?
Adnmaster: no
Doju: ok
Doju: hmm
Adnmaster: i used: def distanceTo(here variables):
Doju: yeah ok
Adnmaster: it doesnt give error about the function, but it says not in a function, shall i check distanceTo?
Doju: ohh
Adnmaster: at the other parts of the code, there is not error of the function though
Doju: um
Doju: i think there's an error in the definition of distanceTo
Doju: typo?
Adnmaster: wait
Adnmaster: i dont think its a typo
Adnmaster: but i will check
Doju: or typo where you're calling it?
Doju: Ah
Adnmaster: nope
Adnmaster: not typo
Doju: Does the definition come before where you call it?
Doju: i think it has to
Adnmaster: it does
Adnmaster: it comes at the program beginning
Doju: so is the error on that line?
Doju: it might be that you need a space after elif
Doju: so elif (ability_cooldowns[a] == 0 and distanceTo(d, d2, pac_x[a], pac_y[a]) > 10):
Adnmaster: oh
Adnmaster: wait let me check
Adnmaster: still error
Doju: are you sure that you've called if something before that?
Adnmaster: oh
Adnmaster: wait it worked
Adnmaster: thanks very much
Doju: lol :P
Doju: np
Adnmaster: now there is another error lol
Adnmaster: :D
Adnmaster: aahh
Adnmaster: finally got it!!
Adnmaster: yes!!!!
Doju: great!
Adnmaster: i did this: pac_x[a], instead of this: pac_x[my_pac_id[a]]
Doju: oh
Doju: okay
Adnmaster: wait...
Adnmaster: nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
AntiSquid: ?
AntiSquid: waiting, yes or no ?
Adnmaster: i though it was fixed!
AntiSquid: i bet i am rank 1 in the captcha game this contest
Adnmaster: captcha game?
AntiSquid: yes
AntiSquid: you unlock it if you submit bot enough times
AntiSquid: it's a secret bonus level
Adnmaster: i never heard of that, can you explain more?
AntiSquid: no more spoilers
Adnmaster: :D ok
AntiSquid: use your skills to unlock it
Doju: you can try it yourself
Adnmaster: ok
carlnix: Hey guys
AntiSquid: hi
AntiSquid: are you here for the contest? carlnix
AntiSquid: https://www.codingame.com/contests/spring-challenge-2020/leaderboard/global
AntiSquid: just jump in submit a bot and see how it goes
carlnix: Sure
muy31: yo Doju how early were you up?
Adnmaster: winning with 1 point :D: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/463560600
Doju: uhhh maybe 8:15?
Doju: why?
muy31: weren't you online at 1:00 am finland time yesterday?
muy31: cause it was 5pm my time
Doju: i went to bed at 3 am xD
Doju: trying to fix my sleep schedule
muy31: lol i see
Doju: tired as hell
Doju: but hey more time to code :p
jrke: anyone knows how to know response time in c++
Adnmaster: how
muy31: im really annoyed right now that the reason i cant get too gold is b/c i use switch
Tiramon: then use switch less?
Adnmaster: do you keep your pacs alive with switch?
muy31: yeah
muy31: i mean its just that i use an extremely logical switch to survive, but the other pacs just ignoe me
Adnmaster: oh
muy31: so it's pointless
Adnmaster: yeah, then better dont use it
muy31: but it's logically adept
Adnmaster: youre in bronze, right?
muy31: silver
Adnmaster: oh
Adnmaster: ok
Tiramon: silver without speed? nice
jrke: anybody to my ques
muy31: no i use speed definitely
muy31: i just dont always use speed
Adnmaster: youre in silver, im in bronze, can i see our battle?
muy31: i dont know how to switch the leagues
Tiramon: get ranked above the boss
muy31: i dont think i can play against another league, can i?
Tiramon: oh you mean play against lower leagues
muy31: yeah
Akarachudra: there are another rules. u cant
Tiramon: you can
muy31: how?
Adnmaster: but arent all the rules unlocked in bronze?
Tiramon: but the opponent selector has a limit ... in top league it is top 1k players
Adnmaster: so isnt bronze and silver same?
muy31: i want to battle Adnmaster
Adnmaster: let us battle
Adnmaster: wait
Tiramon: else it is top x in current league and less
Adnmaster: im checking if i can
Adnmaster: oh we cant
muy31: yeah
Tiramon: only higher league player can select
Adnmaster: oh
Tiramon: bronze can't see silver but silver has a chance to see bronze
muy31: but i cant see him
Adnmaster: muy31 can you send replay
Adnmaster: you cant see me?
muy31: no
muy31: it only goes to 197th place in silver
Doju: i'm so deep in the wikipedia pages atm
Doju: trying to solve some pathfinding problems
muy31: now 199 in bronze
muy31: Adnmaster get above 199th place
Tiramon: sure even i can see 669 in silver
Adnmaster: ok
Tiramon: ?
Adnmaster: ill try
muy31: my bad Tiramon it was a mistake i meant bronze
Tiramon: k
Tiramon: still sad that they limit it to 1k
Adnmaster: whats the formula to find my distance to another pac?
Doju: Adnmaster it depends
Doju: what do you want to do
Doju: the actual walking distance or an approximation?
Adnmaster: for example if my pac is away from the enemy pac it will use speed
Adnmaster: not walking distance
muy31: you can use Manhattan for that
Adnmaster: manhattan?
Doju: then manhattan is fine
Tiramon: muy31 why you switched to rock in https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/463574147 ?
Tiramon: in frame 34
Doju: abs(x1 - x2) + abs(y1 - y2)
Adnmaster: i used that but it didnt work
Doju: it should
WINWINWIN: it does not take portals into account
Adnmaster: hmm...
Adnmaster: wait
muy31: the assumption that you would switch to scissors and chase me
WINWINWIN: I copied the distance from the referee
muy31: Tiramon
WINWINWIN: that is a lot more accurate
muy31: Adnmaster then use modulus...
Tiramon: yes guessed that, but i passed you 2 times as paper ... why would i switch at the 3rd time?
muy31: my bot doesn't extrapolate
muy31: it's not that smart...
Tiramon: so it's just distance == 1so switch
Tiramon: btw i couldn't switch to scissor .. i had cooldown
Tiramon: one more reason for you to switch to scissor instead of rock
Tiramon: same in frame 68 i had cooldown and you expected me to get rock
muy31: did i switch them up then?
muy31: thanks for replay Tiramon
Tiramon: np ;)
Adnmaster: trick to league up: find what the boss does, convert it into code, then submit that code :D
perseverent: hi
perseverent: did anybody reach gold without pathfinding?
RoboStac: Adnmaster - if it's that easy then just skip the bosses and watch replays on the leaderboard from #1
RoboStac: :)
perseverent: is it possible?
muy31: Tiramon is the green bar accurate? for cooldown
Adnmaster: ok then :D
Tiramon: log and player are not 100% sync, but i guess the bar should be accurate
eulerscheZahl: tooltips only show SPEED cooldown, but not the reload :(
Tiramon: else print abilitycooldown from input
muy31: Tiramon you in gold?
wlesavo: im always printing out the cooldown in msg, seems to be the most relevant info
MiniWall: Hey guys, any way to change the cerr output color ?
eulerscheZahl: yes, greasemonkey
perseverent: I take it as a no then
muy31: its a chrome extension
perseverent: I'll go and implement some kind of BFS then
wlesavo: is it the same as
Violentmonkey?
Alshock: eulerscheZahl I like that answer
perseverent: hope it's worth it
JohnCM: manhattan can go to bronze
JohnCM: i didn't do bfs until silver
muy31: like tampermonkey
perseverent: what about gold
perseverent: manhattan works?
JohnCM: haha haven't tried
JohnCM: i think best to use bfs in gold
muy31: for real ive been doing bfs since bronze
perseverent: I mean for silver boss
perseverent: can you beat with mnhattan?
muy31: probably not
perseverent: I see
perseverent: no hope for me
lexXxel: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/c2680d4c-c5be-4bd7-839e-c1981da3617d
lexXxel: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/2970964d-c941-4f7a-a278-c3b45d94b9c3
lexXxel: oh come one
lexXxel: Hi guys, are there any known issues with the pellet input?
eulerscheZahl: no
lexXxel: thx
WINWINWIN: lexXxel I have not faced any yet
eulerscheZahl: try to flush your stderr
eulerscheZahl: print(..., flush=True)
lexXxel: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/f8016871-941b-4e0e-8c5f-0a862ef06147
WINWINWIN: what does that do eule
WINWINWIN: *euler
Alshock: it makes sure to print
eulerscheZahl: i bet you get all input but don't see it in the logs. that forces to print everything
eulerscheZahl: you probably get stuck somewhere below in your code
TheNiv: Only pacs with the SPEED ability enabled can move- what does this means?
muy31: hey perseverent due to pathfinding issues, your rock got stuck https://www.codingame.com/replay/463591073
WINWINWIN: what is the use of flush eulerscheZahl
WINWINWIN: ?
Alshock: TheNiv SPEED allows to move twice in a turn
TheNiv: wow I missed a lot
perseverent: :)
perseverent: I know
Alshock: once with all other pacs, and once afterwards
perseverent: manhattan does that
eulerscheZahl: print(f"get pellet {i}: {line}", file=sys.stderr, flush=True)
TheNiv: oh ok
lexXxel: @eulerischeZahl thx, I used sys.stdout.flush() and failed to replace it with stderr
lexXxel: xD
eulerscheZahl: :D
Alshock: lol sys.stderr.flush() should work though
lexXxel: yeah
Alshock: I didn't even know there was an option for it in print
lexXxel: but i failed and copied sys.stdout.flush()
Alshock: I feel you
eulerscheZahl: a lot of users got stuck here. they should just change the default stub or change the way they call your python bot as robo suggested on the forum
Alshock: I guess they don't want to do that kind of change because they're affraid to be asked to change them for all languages
eulerscheZahl: i guess they will change it. just not as fast as we hope
eulerscheZahl: 1434 python players in this contest. the most popular language, worth doing such a small change
WINWINWIN: anyone think the contest will touch 5000 participants?
muy31: come on, ive been below rank 20 in silver for a day now,,, im 5
muy31: someone submit and boost me
Tiramon: how much score behind theboss?
WINWINWIN: muy31 collaborative submitting is extremely important :P
muy31: what does that mean?
MattSOrme: I actually found out my problem wasn't with flush, but that i timed out on the previous turn
muy31: Tiramon
WINWINWIN: I got to silver because the guy who I was especially good against kept submitting :P
Tiramon: muy in the leader board it is shown a score for you and the boss
Tiramon: and i want to know the diff
Tiramon: sometimes it is high even if only a few ranks apart then i won't expect to be pushed up
muy31: me: 24.75 vs. 26.05
muy31: is that high?
eulerscheZahl: Tiramon just find a battle with the boss and open it. then you see the score of the boss below
eulerscheZahl: it's possible to get pushed up but i wouldn't bet on it
Tiramon: oh nice didn't know that
Tiramon: < 1 is quit ok, normally i expect to be pushed up with < 0.5
eulerscheZahl: even cgstats shows the boss now, if it's part of any of the past battles
WINWINWIN: Is the boss part of the final ranking?
eulerscheZahl: no
muy31: Tiramon you think i should resubmit then if I think my new code is better?
muy31: even though im ranked 5?
Tiramon: depends on how much better ;)
muy31: that's rough
Tiramon: if you always win against your arena bot it sure is worth a try
Tiramon: worst case you get ranked lower
muy31: it's not that much better its 50/50
Tiramon: with a bit of luck you get a lot of winning matches and get ranked higher, or maybe you had luck and will get ranked lower
Tiramon: wouldn't resubmit in that case
Tiramon: find a better improvement
muy31: also silver bot doesnt switch at all
Hjax: switching is overrated
Tiramon: especially because the 8 ranks below you have a very low diff to you
eulerscheZahl: switching for a kill is still a nice thing
Tiramon: if you kill some pacs in the first turns it's very powerful, else it often is a waste of score
eulerscheZahl: but now that i'm speeding almost all the time, i rarely do it :(
Tiramon: except you avoid being killed
WINWINWIN: speed is better than switch???
Tiramon: imho
muy31: yes
WINWINWIN: I never do speed -_-
WINWINWIN: I only switch rarely
MattSOrme: then you might want to change your name
muy31: thats mean
WINWINWIN: :) MattSOrme will rather change speed :P
eulerscheZahl: WINWINWIN you should speed for sure. i beat you with 1 vs 2 :D
https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/463602594
eulerscheZahl: but that switch was definitely helpful
WINWINWIN: :D will do that, maybe start with switch at lower priority and work up from there
eulerscheZahl: there are still some interesting moves from my bot that i should debug in that match
IronBeast_24c7: Can we make the console output re-sizable. It's a nightmare to deal with ..
JohnCM: i have some issues with my bot now
JohnCM: the more i modify, the more i realize i had 2 bugs all along
JohnCM: but somehow it worked
Tiramon: oh you really meant 1vs2 ... ouch
muy31: eulerscheZahl what do you even do with the info of possible opponent locations
eulerscheZahl: remove pellets from the map
Doju: Damn, collaborative pathing is really difficult to do
Tiramon: frame 48 and moves like that are things i don't really understand
eulerscheZahl: in my replay? i'm looking into it right now...
muy31: it appears he is extrapolating on further turns
eulerscheZahl: i think it's probably harvested already https://imgur.com/a/6K46FzS
eulerscheZahl: so better tracking would help for sure here. or another scoring
muy31: he sees two 100% pellets in one that he could get vs 4 in the opposite direction
muy31: so he goes for the four
muy31: i think
Tiramon: so you expect the pellets behind the corner to be gone?
muy31: less than 100%
eulerscheZahl: yes, 21% chance it's still there
Tiramon: interesting visulization
eulerscheZahl: but when i'm so close i should just look around the corner
muy31: ive been doing the ame technique, how come im in silver
AntiSquid: how's it going ZarthaxX ?
muy31: oh rank 12
muy31: ...
Tiramon: as i said those guys behind you were very close in score
muy31: im going to start tracking enemies then
Tiramon: i got basic enemy tracking but ignore the information
MattSOrme: damn, if thats what it takes to be top 10, i'll be lucky to maek gold
Doju: WOW
Doju: muy
Doju: your switching is on point
muy31: show me...
muy31: please
Doju: https://www.codingame.com/replay/463586620
Doju: frame 31
Tiramon: thats why i never attack a pack with available cooldown
Doju: you predicted that i'd switch to scissors
muy31: yea, but now you see the problem right?
Doju: yup
Doju: also what on earth is my pac 0 doing on frame 16
Doju: "nope, don't like that pellet"
muy31: lol
Doju: Oh i see what it's doing
Doju: alright
Doju: it thinks there's a pellet behind the corner
lorus: ohh god
Doju: oh no it doesn't
Doju: it's going for the super pellet
Doju: maybe i'm giving them a bit too much value hahah
muy31: i see
muy31: i guess value should also depend on distance
muy31: what do you think
Doju: atm i don't do values other than 0, 1 and 10
Doju: but yes definitely
Doju: that's gonna be a thing soon
Tiramon: distance is very important
Doju: and some other things
Tiramon: else you aim for a pellet at distance 6 and ignore the one at distance 1
Doju: well
Doju: the idea with my current system was to go for super pellets even if their distance is greater than 10 and there's a normal pellet right next to me
muy31: eulerscheZahl you doing like probability of opponent moving to a new location = 70%, prob of moving to an old location 20% and prob of ataying still 10%?
Doju: since there can be normal pellets on the way there
Tiramon: even with more than 1 pac per superpellet?
muy31: or do you 100% assume that your opponent will move to an unexplored location?
eulerscheZahl: sorry, i won't get too much into detail here
muy31: ok then np
Doju: Tiramon atm they don't care if there's another pac going for the same pellet
Hjax: come on euler, spill all of your secrets :P
Doju: working on fixing that right now
lxnn: muy31, surely it would be best not to make any assumptions about the opponent's movement, and so model their behaviour as uniformly random
lxnn: remember, probabilistic logic is monotonic, so if your model gets into an 'overly certain' state, it's unlikely to get back to an appropriately uncertain state again
lxnn: although you might just want to manually tweak the parameters, as naive probabilistic models can sometimes miraculously perform well
lxnn: just my two cents
NormantasStankevicius: heyo, gin league
muy31: cool Ixnn
Ramzel: Currently First in Bronze hope that i will go up soon
Ramzel: Yey welcome silver
AntiSquid: ya that's about enough to graduate from bronze
AntiSquid: nvm too late
AntiSquid: chat lags
Ramzel: Are there any new rules in gold?
Hjax: no new rules in gold
Ramzel: ok
AntiSquid: wroclaw back to 1st place eh ?
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/463633476
that brilliant plan at frame 54: 2 papers can trap the rock, completely ignoring the scissors :D
Ramzel: Is there information about dead pacs usefull?
jrke: hey to return two or more values from a function in c++ anybody please
Ramzel: u can return a vector of informations
Ramzel: jrke
DamianS: use pair<>
jrke: ya but not working
Ramzel: or tuple to store more then to informations
Ramzel: u can also use for example pair of pairs
Ramzel: and so on
jrke: my return statement return std::make_pair(rx,ry);
Ramzel: And what is the compiler log?
jrke: means
Tiramon: wow pac tracking costs quite some time
WINWINWIN: Looks like another guy going to gold now
Tiramon: especially if the pac isn't seen for a longer time
Ramzel: Tiramon what league are u in?
Tiramon: gold
Tiramon: but lower rnaks in gold
Tiramon: *ranks
WINWINWIN: Is a pathfinder necessary for gold?
Tiramon: not sure if pathfinding is needed, i wrote a simple simulation to avoid blocking and gather pellets effective
Ramzel: What do u mean by gathering pellets effective?
Ramzel: :D
leodark: hi
EvModder: lol i have an awful algorithm for gathering pellets
EvModder: but i am pretty good at combat ;)
Tiramon: if i run through a block of pellets and have 2 directions to leave that block it's more effective to leave it at the side were another pellet is know instead of an empty area
Tiramon: also those 1 pellet deadend walk by are also quite uneffective imho
EvModder: i think a good idea would be to mark dead ends on your grid, and prioritize those lower
Tiramon: why should i go for one pellet in a dead end ... so yes
EvModder: i dont find pellet-collecting algos as fun to write as fighting stuff :)
Tiramon: a way to gather more pellets in a shorter time ;)
Tiramon: fight can be avoided to easily to invest much time
EvModder: actually, my pellet-collecting strat DOES consider dead ends, but only because I already wrote the code to use it for detecting is a pac is trapped lol
goolmoos: https://www.codingame.com/replay/463651032
Tiramon: if you really kill all early it is nice, but that isn't easy
EvModder: did he time out?
goolmoos: no
goolmoos: I just are them all
EvModder: oh i see
EvModder: very tasty :)
EvModder: is there a way to play against a specific player?
goolmoos: yes
goolmoos: add them in the IDE
goolmoos: click delete below the Default AI
goolmoos: and then add whoever you want
EvModder: oh wow thanks!
NormantasStankevicius: just jumped with a dumb fix 1200spots... to silver 254
Tiramon: but choice is limited to players of your league or below limit(1k)
EvModder: i feel you norman
NormantasStankevicius: it's the definition I don't know why is it working, but it is
Quidome: You can invite players in lower leagues but not the other way around
EvModder: i dropped 100 spots yesterday because of a bad submission. i still don't know what was wrong. i just kept working on it and slowly climbing back up
NormantasStankevicius: people improved their code evModder?
EvModder: it was a submission
NormantasStankevicius: ohhh, you're top 93
EvModder: it is still deciding, i am 106 now
NormantasStankevicius: in high gold *
EvModder: hopefully it goes up but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
EvModder: ya i've put too much time into this lol
Ramzel: 367's in silver
Ramzel: not bad at all
EvModder: a friend told me to join but now im playing more than him
njaber: I like seeing collecting pellets as one giant fight over territory with the enemy, this makes it more fun ;)
njaber: wait I was this far back in chat
njaber: EvModder I was replying to a message you sent way earlier
EvModder: oh yea
EvModder: the territory war :D
EvModder: my pacs also have 0 collaboration rn, for pellet-collecting nor fighting
EvModder: they are smart but not good team players, yet
njaber: the problem with collaboration is that it transform the decision making time from (numberOfAction * numberOfPac) to (numberOfActions ^ numberOdPac)
njaber: and with 5 pacs this can mean up to 9 ^ 5 which is a lot
njaber: wait no 11 ^5
njaber: No i'm dumb it's 9 since you can't have "move 2" and "use abilitiy" possibilities at once
Kellthazar: Im stuck trying to implement an alternative for my heuristc approach
EvModder: heuristics all the way man
EvModder: magic numbers ftw (:
Kellthazar: Yeah, but my code with heurist is so bloated right now...
Kellthazar: Im trying to implement Monte Carlo Tree Search...
Ikhadem: i can't improve this shit no more
llllllllll: same feeling I had since sunday
Doju: THis is in no way related to coding, but does anyone here know a good inventory/warehouse management app?
llllllllll: and every day I could do a lot more to improve
AntiSquid: fixed the most crucial bug!
AntiSquid: could have done it sooner but w/e
Kellthazar: Yeah, Ill be back to my heuristc algo... See if I can improve any aspect of it
AntiSquid: my emojis are now working perfectly
MattSOrme: lol, are they meant to mean something or just random?
mamitiana: hi all! how can i speed multiple PAC pls ? in python
Quidome: you seperate each command with a |
EvModder: AntiSquid i love your emojis man
MattSOrme: you need to get a target 2+ moves away, and print them on the same line
MOVE 0 10 10 | MOVE 1 15 15
AntiSquid: thanks! EvModder
AntiSquid: ofc they do, they hold the key to the universe MattSOrme
EvModder: before i knew how to pick who i play against in IDE (lol until today), i played you in random matches and copied to IDE
AntiSquid: lol
Quidome: 4512 submits :)
EvModder: dang lol
Illedan: 4k submits?
Quidome: 4.5k :D
Illedan: -.-
EvModder: 49 :)
EvModder: and i thought i was spamming it XD
Illedan: You can't test in the IDE Quidome?
Quidome: uh i mean different players of course
EvModder: about to make it 50
AntiSquid: how ? when ?
AntiSquid: Quidome
Quidome: Big confusion now
EvModder: you can copy players to the IDE from matches, or pick them by clicking under the AI
EvModder: i learned this today myself
Quidome: I mean 4513 different players have submitted a bot
Quidome: I find that very amazing :D
EvModder: ah ok yea it is!
EvModder: i thought you meant that you submitted 4513 different updates of your bot code
EvModder: (which would also be amazing)
Quidome: lol
Doju: does submitting the default code count as a submission?
Quidome: I think so
Doju: because i bet like half of those are that
llllllllll: those are in wood 2
llllllllll: and not counted imo
Doju: wdym going to one spot isn't a valid strategy
EvModder: yeah, i don't think those can beat the boss and actually enter
MattSOrme: ugh, i swear i've just spent the last 2 days making my code worse :(
Quidome: 231 in wood 2, so max 231 default code submits
EvModder: :(
llllllllll: @Matt I know that feeling ^^
Paikan2068: @MattSOrme, same
EvModder: yeah.. especially yesterday
Paikan2068: Anyhow, we try and learn
EvModder: I got so tired, and then submitted and dropped 100 places
Paikan2068: Learning by failure is painful
Doju: that's pretty good Quidome
Paikan2068: but I guess even the best at this learnt by failure as well :p
JohnCM: no worries @evmodder, you'll gain it back
EvModder: i have, mostly :)
EvModder: new day, new energy
JohnCM: there's a fluctuation of +- 100 when you submit
JohnCM: depends on your initial luck
JohnCM: after that will stabilize over the next few days
EvModder: oh i know about the flectuation, i was responding to MattSOrme
MattSOrme: my code from 2 days ago is technically going up in the league, but not sure if thats just cos other people are leaving
EvModder: might be, or perhaps it just stabilizes
MattSOrme: Got too many ideas that Im just not implementing well
EvModder: i think it plays too few games initially, so if you are unlucky it puts you lower than you should be
Paikan2068: I think my best code was when I didn't care, like 5 days ago.. Then I went up with the bigger guns, and totally missed the implementations
EvModder: and it gets fixed over time
EvModder: ahh yeah
EvModder: i've been sticking to incremental improvements so far but i hav big dreams i might attempt later
Paikan2068: I guess, that's the way to learn also
EvModder: like having pacs actually collaborate :joy:
Doju: do you guys have a class for all your pacs
JohnCM: my pacs just avoid each other
EvModder: I have names for them if that counts
Doju: like not a pac class but an "all the pacs" class
JohnCM: but by doing so they collaborate
JohnCM: emergence by simple rules, i call it
Paikan2068: I'd like to not timeout with my bfs and a* for 10% of my games
Paikan2068: that would already be a great improvement
EvModder: Spongebob, Patrick, Squidward, Sandy, Mr. Crabs <- my pac names
njaber: I made the mistake of starting with the big dream, now I'm fully commited and I don't know if I'll actually have something to submit better then silver in time
EvModder: naming them is proven an effective strategy.
Doju: njaber type away then!
Doju: i'm also making quite a big change atm
Doju: if it works it'll surely get me to gold
njaber: I've been coding almost 20 hours a day (not an exageration) since the beginning of the challenge XD
Doju: same njaber
JohnCM: lol that's too much
Doju: or maybe not 20
Doju: more like 14
Doju: or 15
Paikan2068: Let's say that at least you get to learn things!
Doju: Paikan2068 oh definitely
Doju: i've learned sooo many things
AntiSquid: you need breaks, have fun, don't overexhaust njaber, did you even add emojis to your pacs yet?
Doju: This is the biggest coding project i've done
JohnCM: how to put emojis?
EvModder: my next big goals for tomorrow: (1) guessing enemy next N moves after they leave LOS, (2) having one of my pacs let the other move if it is blocked
Doju: unicode chars
AntiSquid: exhaustion creates most bugs
JohnCM: ah..
Doju: AntiSquid yeah that's true tho
EvModder: so true
njaber: I've saddly come to the conclusion that to make my algorithm work I'll need a lot of bayesian calculations which I didn't have until now, so I'mm reworking a lot of it, and I don't know if 3 days are enough :/
AntiSquid: https://getemoji.com/ copy one from there and add them as you would add a mesage to your pac outputs JohnCM
Doju: bayesian calculation
Doju: oh damn
Doju: actually i kinda need that too
njaber: Antisquad no I haven't but I don't have something to submit :/
EvModder: sounds so fancy :3
EvModder: i use "magic"
njaber: Also that's how I have fun usually, I'm not overexhausting myself
AntiSquid: naive bayes like relations between stuff ?
JohnCM: thanks antisquid
AntiSquid: np
EvModder: i assign every square a "magic value" and then each pac greedily goes along the most "magical" trail
Doju: hmm
njaber: I don't know how deap I'll go into bayesinism, for now I'm just doing normal probablities without conditions which isn't even working yet
AntiSquid: but with adding emojis comes the responsibility to raise in rank so more people notice them JohnCM
EvModder: and a lot of random, complex junk goes into how i assign the magic values
AntiSquid: rise *
njaber: But I'll need a little bit of it to estimate enemy pos, the limit will be how much bayesianism I can do in 50ms
Doju: i did a little thinking
Doju: i wanna get every possible path between any given cells of given length n
Doju: and i need to do that... many times
EvModder: what for? there might be an easier solution
Doju: magic
EvModder: ah :)
EvModder: BFS is the solution general for distance
Doju: yup
Doju: i need every possible path though
Doju: that's a little more intensive
EvModder: from every x1,y1 to every x2,y2 ?
Paikan2068: but even with that in mind, you have to find a heuristic to design targets which works fine. And then collaboration... and so on and so on
JohnCM: how do i put the emoji in
JohnCM: like
JohnCM: 😇
llllllllll: in python: \U0001f914
JohnCM: i'm gonna put an emoji right before i crush my opponent's pac
Doju: EvModder yes
EvModder: i think you just print it after the move JognCM
JohnCM: oh how did you get the unicode?
llllllllll: I do the same, with the kiss emoji
llllllllll: unicode emoji list
llllllllll: google
njaber: Well, you can be sure there is at most (dist / 2) ^2 paths, and I think you could just branch "closer neighboors" until you hit your destinations with all paths
EvModder: Doju that is W*H * W*H memory :sweat_smile:
EvModder: but that is doable i think
EvModder: as a preprocess step, certainly
Doju: umm how did you get (dist / 2)^2?
EvModder: each cell will need a grid for the distance to each other cell
Doju: i have that
llllllllll: me too
llllllllll: much faster to look it up than to calc every time
EvModder: lol i hav no clue what u guys need all that for
Doju: i already told you
Doju: magic
EvModder: ah right
MSmits: :six_pointed_star:
llllllllll: I use it to get the 'real distance' between 2 cells
llllllllll: that comes handy sometimes
Paikan2068: Just use BFS, quite a lot faster than you might think at first
EvModder: llllllllll that makes sense actually, for caching/performance i guess. i haven't had issues with the time limit yet really
MSmits: they do use BFS Paikan2068
EvModder: or, if i have, it was because of a bug in my code
MSmits: they just do it all on turn 1
llllllllll: we do bfs, but for every cell in turn 1
MSmits: and then lookup the result
llllllllll: exactly
Paikan2068: Oh, yeah, good point
MSmits: i dont think it's workable for me, pacs block movement
EvModder: yall are smart now i want to do this too. even though i dont need to
MSmits: i dont do it EvModder
MSmits: ive done it for other contests, but dont see the point here
EvModder: yeah time limit is pretty generous
MSmits: thats not why
MSmits: all my path calculations include pacs blocking
EvModder: ah
MSmits: and thats different all the time
EvModder: pacs move around though
MSmits: yes
Doju: those you can't precalculate
EvModder: so distance makes sense somewhat if you expect them to move away
Doju: or maybe if you're reeeally smat about it
Doju: you might
MSmits: well.. i dont have any other Doju
njaber: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/3950ee6a-3f4b-4303-a42a-77afe5e8452e
njaber: Doju
MSmits: well except maybe hardcoding for superpellets
MSmits: i gotta get that working
EvModder: my super pellet handling has caused me a lot of losses
MSmits: mine too
njaber: Don't know if that helps
EvModder: that, and not thinking before going around corners (which i will work on tomorrow)
Doju: Oh i see, thanks njaber
Paikan2068: I don't know what caused me many of my losses, but I'm starting to lose hope, and tell myself I should probably get back to actually work on theory :p
EvModder: :(
Petras: Hey guys, what are the conditions for pac switching? (- Pac 2 can't switch to ROCK form yet!) yet xdd Coldown = 0 and SpeedTurn = 0
njaber: maybe he's already a rock?
Petras: I'm missing something here
Doju: I think it's time to put the lofi girl on the second monitor and start coding
njaber: or he's dead?
jrke: ya maybe already rock
Paikan2068: Eh, but wait, my last submit is actually doing quite good
EvModder: oh yeah, the dead thing can trip you up
Petras: He's alive and of different type o_O
MSmits: yeah thats life
EvModder: my last submit was a very pleasant surprise for me
Paikan2068: Yeah, but will it beat the bot :p
Paikan2068: that's the terrible question
MSmits: Petras share a replay
Petras: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/463707000
MSmits: frame?
Petras: turn 25 pacID 2
Counterbalance: referee only prints that if cooldown != 0
Petras: oh yeah I'm stupid
Petras: .. nevermind.. :DDD
jrke: see its not cooldown petras
Paikan2068: I'm actually starting to believe, 48 fights for this sbmit, 5 losses...
MSmits: it became a rock
MattSOrme: ok, so im gonna go back to my old submitted code that was better, and start adding bits from my new code to it nicely
MSmits: you denied its rock-hood, it's a rock
Paikan2068: Good luck Matt
Petras: xd
jrke: petras which league
MattSOrme: I will get to gold if it kills me
Paikan2068: Oh, and just when I told that, a terrible 4 loss serie
Petras: gold
jrke: wow
MSmits: allright back to coding
jrke: yuo
jrke: *yup
EvModder: hmm, i like my ranking, so i might nap for a bit actually lol
KCrown: how do you get gold? at what rank us each league?
njaber: I need to optimize a specific part of my C# code (~25 lines) can I copy it here to ask for ideas?
njaber: about 25 lines *
Paikan2068: KCrown you have to beat the boss to change league
EvModder: i would advise not, to be on the safe side
KCrown: thanks
EvModder: site rules and etc. maybe link a pastebin though?
njaber: Too bad
jrke: KCrown you should beat the boss I.e. above boss
Hvosten: Only pacs with the SPEED ability enabled can move
njaber: I though it wasn't ok to link a pastebin either?
Hvosten: What that this mean?
EvModder: idk
MattSOrme: It means only pacs with speed active who chose a target 2 or more away will move
EvModder: yes
jrke: Hvosten it means only pac with speed availibility can move in this chance
Hvosten: Ok thanks
njaber: Actually I can reduce it to 5 lines, 5 lines of codes wouldn't be problematic would it?
Counterbalance: nope, go ahead
njaber: Actually 10
njaber: Well I'll copy the 10
njaber: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/9144dc8f-2856-45cb-a313-7ccb157cc47d
njaber: IVec2 is a custom class I made, and I can paste thee code for GetNeighboors if you think this could be the thing slowing down
njaber: Oh and I forgot the declaration of pos1Cells
Dictionary<IVec2,int> pos2Cells = new Dictionary<IVec2,int>();
njaber: ignor the fact that it's pos2 it's the same
njaber: Actually, I'll try rewritting GetNeighboors first, I'll store a reference to each valid neighboors for each cell during the initialization turn
journeyvivek: nice
njaber: but if you've got other ideas it'd be hellpful
Counterbalance: what's the purpose of that code? make a collection of all 'lastCells' and their neighbours?
njaber: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/b0c36b00-a9b9-4a64-aebe-491fc494dcca
njaber: frick I write too much
jrke: why my rank suddenly became 8 and next submission suddenly 316 without any changes in code:thinking:
cegprakash: my rank dropped by 60 not surprising
njaber: Counterbalance the pastebin contains my answer, I'm just too verbose XD
alinde2: Being "first" after the boss is rather fun. :upside_down:
gangland6001: dafuk
Counterbalance: njaber i see. You're re-calculating that for the past 20 turns each turn?
njaber: no for the past I have another algorithm which is pretty efficient and remembers previous turn's calculations, this one is for future turns
Tiipiac: I have an issue with the input, it seems like I do not receive the last line of it. I should be seeing 34 pellets now when only 33 are given. :(
Tiipiac: Can anyone help me please?
njaber: For now it's not much more useful then a distance except that it takes all current possible pos of the enemy into account, but later I plan on adding probabilities to the each movement so I'll need this map to be generate
Counterbalance: Tiipiac there's some messages on the forum about that
Tiipiac: thx
Kukiss: Tiipiac maybe you have modified something by accident there. You can restore the code to the default one to see hot it looks like. (ofc store your code somewhere else first)
Kukiss: how*
Doju: Is there a way to jump to the definition of a method in the ide?
Doju: i tried everything i could think of
[CG]Nonofr: in the CG ide?
Doju: yes
Tiipiac: I will try this yes.
Doju: Apparently there's a keybindings file
Doju: i'll have to edit that i guess
RoboStac: Tiipiac - it's probably that, it's most likely an issue with python buffering your logs (https://forum.codingame.com/t/spring-challenge-2020-bugs-questions/180397/67?u=robostac)
[CG]Nonofr: In what language Doju?
Doju: Python 3
[CG]Nonofr: If it doesn't work, just refresh the page
[CG]Nonofr: ctrl+click on it should work
[CG]Nonofr: I just fixed it ! :)
Tiipiac: I tried to refresh but it does not work either
Doju: Yup now it works, thanks [CG]Nonofr
Tiipiac: I will try the post solution from @RoboStac
Tiipiac: @RoboStac it worked, thank you!
Tiipiac: I flushed it ;)
Tiramon: ok .. it works like expected
to bad i expected it will take to much time ...
Tiramon: 5 speed moves after another result in quite many possible path and final locations ...
njaber: You working on tracking?
Tiramon: try to track the pacs to find out where they are and what path they took (or maybe took_) so i can ignore those pellets
Tiramon: less looking around the corner with the 'too late' feedback
Tiramon: not working well
njaber: I've gt good news for you, it's defenitly possible in less then 50ms since I'm already doing, I haven't implemented all features yet but it's gonna be faster when I implement them since there'll be less paths to extend
Tiramon: incl path?
njaber: Yeah everything
Tiramon: hm ok
Tiramon: then i will have to rethink that part a bit more
EvModder: i haven't done that yet, i will in my next iteration tho probably
njaber: that's not exactly true actualy, I can check if they've taken a given path, but I can't easily list them all
Tiramon: hm got just another idea how to prune the amount
EvModder: right now i only keep track of the last location i saw them at, so i dont run away then just turn around and go right back into the danger zone
njaber: isting all paths is hard though, because there's a lot they could have taken from the last seen point to all possible end point, how I do it is that I basically regroup each path by length and turn they could have passed a given cells, then I can deduduce back the possbility of the enemy taking a given path
cegprakash: njaber why no gold yet
cegprakash: :D
njaber: because no submit because my code isn't ready
njaber: I'm getting closer though
njaber: But I have to implement a few probabilitic/bayesian logics before it's usable
njaber: Currently it does what I imagined it would do but it basically thniks about the absolute worst case scenario, I think it'd do really well with perfect info, but I need to allow it to make decisions in cases where there are too many worst case scenarios
cegprakash: I assume opponent is stupid at times
cegprakash: :D
njaber: I'm now regretting leaving Wood1, I would have liked to test my code in a perfect info situation
njaber: It would really help with debbuging
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/demo/8418077ed71a7b5a95ed0be20717ef7385050f
cegprakash: no the place u need to test is gold
eulerscheZahl: switch leagues at the top right
njaber: Oh thanks, that helps a lot!
cegprakash: I hope by the end of this contest I'll become Doctor Strange
eulerscheZahl: play BotG, then you can get him right now
MattSOrme: Why does history not tell you what rank it got to :(
Hjax: that would be a nice feature
eulerscheZahl: CG Enhancer
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/cg-enhancer/59441
AntiSquid: but you need to add rank mannualy no ?
eulerscheZahl: yes
wlesavo: and after that it sometimes disappears
eulerscheZahl: i make screenshots when it's going well. then i have the date+time at least
wlesavo: that an idea
Hjax: i do most of my testing locally anyway
eulerscheZahl: i configured my print key to directly save it in a chosen directory
Hjax: submits are just for finding edge case bugs
AntiSquid: doesn't matter much atm, seems like the outcome is very random, the bots in mid gold are of similar strength
AntiSquid: you don't notice it probably
eulerscheZahl: random at the top too
eulerscheZahl: val growth was 1st
eulerscheZahl: saw him below 10, i don't think he submitted since
Hjax: the top also drops a lot of games vs the middle of gold
eulerscheZahl: because the game is quite random
Hjax: yeah
Hjax: i hope by the end the winner is clear, rather than lucky
eulerscheZahl: for other contest like wondev woman you didn't see that. almost 100% winrate for the top players
eulerscheZahl: not another OoC please
Hjax: was ooc pretty rng at the end?
eulerscheZahl: yes
eulerscheZahl: top4 on a coinflip
Hjax: i messed around with it for like a day, got bored and stopped
Hjax: wasnt a big fan of that game
AntiSquid: me neither
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/contests/ocean-of-code/leaderboard
they changed order a few times during recalc
Hjax: do you think this game will end up the same euler?
wlesavo: kovi droped from 1st to 4
wlesavo: in ooc recalc i mean
Hjax: i think in utg the top bots were pretty consistent vs weaker bots
AntiSquid: there was some RPS in there too at the top
wlesavo: and with this game i feel like i cant improve anymore, most of my ideas broke my bot
AntiSquid: certain people countered each other
Hjax: this is true, i had a better winrate against karliso than teccles did
Hjax: also a pretty google winrate against teccles
Hjax: good*
wlesavo: had to go back on 1.5 days of chnges, to go back at 100 at least
kovi: btw
kovi:
pb4 33.93 0% [%, 20%] 0 / 17 / 0
njaber: I'm starting to wonder is iterating through a list that can sometimes contain all cells of the maze isn't slower then simply iterating through indexes and checking a 2D array at this index :thinking:
Hjax: whats that
AntiSquid: from ooc ?
kovi: that how recalc ended for me
wlesavo: ooc wr i guess
Hjax: oh i see
Hjax: tragic
cegprakash: njaber early game 2D array is better late game list is better :D
cegprakash: but I use 2D array :D
njaber: i'm not talking about pellets btw
njaber: I'm talking about my projection algorithm that generates possible enemy paths/positions up to N turns ahead
njaber: I've set it to 20 rn but it's too slow, I hopped to optimize it to get as much turns in a as possible
njaber: hoped*
MattSOrme: damn, kovi is crushing... what happened?
AntiSquid: well why not use c++ then if you need more speed njaber
njaber: rn I'm doing list + map for each turn, but I'm wondering if the upside of using the list for turns where there aren't a lot of possibilities is worth the downside of assigning to it on turns with a lot of them
njaber: AntiSquid how much faster is optimized c++ compared to optimized c#?
eulerscheZahl: factor 2
AntiSquid: stupidly much
njaber: Because it will take a long time form me to convert 1900 lines of code to c++, and since I'm using enumerable functions a lot I think there's going to be a lot of refactoring needed
AntiSquid: do it after contest i guess
njaber: Oh yeah because the game stays open after contest right?
eulerscheZahl: or never
eulerscheZahl: it will quickly return to the multiplayer section
AntiSquid: did everyone drop in rank, gold seems oddly bigger and harder Q_Q
wlesavo: resubs are more random
cegprakash: I got dropped
cegprakash: :D
Kukiss: Yup, but I guess it is not possible that Everybody dropped with us :D
AntiSquid: you were never that high ceg
dbf: AntiSquid I moved 50->130 during the night, so please submit tomorrow to push legend bot to place #135
Icebox: I doubt you'd get legend even in top 50
Icebox: I'm guessing it's gonna be top 20-40 that are gonna get promoted initially
AntiSquid: not sure what you mean by that dbf
AntiSquid: 40 ? so generous ?
eulerscheZahl: 20-40? that number is too high
Icebox: :D
eulerscheZahl: more like 10-15
Icebox: people will join gold till tomoroow
AntiSquid: yes was thinking 10-15 too
eulerscheZahl: you should play more often Icebox
Icebox: you should end in top 10-15 more often
eulerscheZahl: :(
Icebox: :D
eulerscheZahl: usually it's looking good till the last weekend hits me hard
AntiSquid: it's like friday every bot comes out of hiding to promote
Hjax: only 10-15 in legend? even given how big this competition is
Hjax: id expect like 50
eulerscheZahl: legend is a fixed number, not a percentage
Hjax: interesting
njaber: Fixed number at all times? or only the original ranking up?
eulerscheZahl: for the boss placement
Hjax: original ranking
Hjax: utg legend was about 100 people by the end
eulerscheZahl: heuristic games tend to have larger legend leagues
eulerscheZahl: simulations games like mean max as small
eulerscheZahl: are small*
Hjax: because its easier to hard counter the boss?
eulerscheZahl: because more people are capable to improve their bots
Hjax: true, sim is hard
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/463750541
that scissors at frame 46. just why?!
eulerscheZahl: and then even chasing me with it
njaber: It couldn't see your pack
njaber: pac*
cegprakash: Hjax 3 days to get it right :D
NapTown: suicidal pac
njaber: tho he could have deduced the pac type from the fact he was bouncing
Hjax: maybe he thought youd switch paper
Hjax: and was trying to be clever
eulerscheZahl: but what about the chasing turn after? :rofl:
Hjax: brave pac
njaber: chased you before seeing you
Hjax: thats not true
njaber: His bot probably doesn't track pac
Hjax: hes rank 6 in gold
njaber: But it's true the more I look the less it makes sens
Hjax: pretty sure he does lol
CatchinAsteroids: Do you guys know where to find completed assignments?
njaber: Oh well then it make 0 sens to me
njaber: Maybe it's an NN/GC that learned to do that?
njaber: I mean GA
eulerscheZahl: complete assignments for what?
CatchinAsteroids: like where to view all of the puzzles we've completed
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/training/easy
at the bottom
CatchinAsteroids: awesome ! Thanks :)
elderlybeginner: how to turn off autosuggestions?
elderlybeginner: in editor
Doju: How many submissions do you guys have?
Kukiss: elderlybeginner I don't exactly but you can open comman pallete with F1, maybe you can find it there
Doju: i've got 88 xD
Kukiss: command*
Hjax: 28 submissions
AntiSquid: select > prefer to not say
Doju: Oh right, you're playing the captcha game all day long :D
AntiSquid: no
AntiSquid: only when i tab to codingame
eulerscheZahl: 76
AntiSquid: tested stuff and submits take aeons, so have plenty of time to watch random stuff on amazon/netflix
alinde2: Well, BFS and a couple of ifs got me to silver, anyone got a suggestion what to try next?
Doju: alinde2 I think collaboration is very important
Ramzel: Lol I m winning in ide with silver boss but when i submit i m losing so often
AntiSquid: implement the perfect search algo alinde2
EvModder: i do 0 collaboration and i'm got to gold, but i do a lot of work elsewhere
Doju: ^ winning strategy
Doju: how do you do 0 collaboration?
EvModder: perfect search algo yes
Doju: do all of your pacs always go for the same pellet? :D
EvModder: well, i avoid dead ends and other pacs, so I guess that counts
Doju: that counts
Doju: that definitely counts
EvModder: no, it has a means of preventing that, heuristically
EvModder: alright
ntroPi: avoiding others of your own pacs is cooperation
njaber: what do you mean perfect search algo, it's a joke or is this really something I never heard of?
alinde2: I hope its a joke...
Doju: a perfect search algo goes through every possible path, i'd say
Doju: till the game ends
SyrusSilverkin: Rookie question: how do I import a module here? I'm trying to use `Math.sqrt`...
Hjax: yeah id define perfect search as minimax with infinite depth
njaber: Yeah that's what I though
Doju: Hjax yeah that
Hjax: good luck minimaxing to the end of the game in 50 ms
Doju: SyrusSilverkin python?
SyrusSilverkin: Sorry, JS
EvModder: perhaps a min-max ai would be perfect
Doju: you won't get very far with that
Doju: like literally
Doju: in time
EvModder: i know, only speaking theoretically
Adnmaster: what is minmax?
Doju: isn't minimax technically the only perfect one?
njaber: There is no perfect search algo anyway in this game since at some point you must bet on the opponents past or future moves to make the "perfect choice"
EvModder: google it, famous game algo :)
EvModder: technically yes
Zenoscave: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimax
EvModder: idk, it might actually be semi-doable for this game impo
SyrusSilverkin: Minimax can be sped up with alpha-beta pruning if you decide to go down that route.
Hjax: theres a proof somewhere that mcts converges to minimax given enough time
Doju: oh huh...
Hjax: so mcts is also perfect
Doju: that's interesting
Zenoscave: SyrusSilverkin Alpha beta still isn't enough to go to end depth
njaber: Still doesn't resolve incomplete info and betting on the next enemy move
alinde2: But, we don't know where the enemy pacs are and which have been eaten, so thats not really gonna go far?..
Doju: maybe i should take a look at the online ai introductory course that i took again
Doju: btw awesome course
Hjax: this isnt a good game for minimax or mcts
Doju: https://www.elementsofai.com/
RockyMullet: my first turn only sim got me from 120th to 85th, I'm happy :D
Doju: no coding but theory
SyrusSilverkin: No, not for this game, but you might be able to get a few levels deeper, especially if you make it towards the end game where there are significantly fewer viable states.
Doju: if you're a beginner
Hjax: my bot is currently doing something monte carlo esque though
EvModder: (5*[5,9])^depth for min max, for your moves along. enemy is worse, because you have to min-max for what you can't see
EvModder: alone*
Doju: err
AntiSquid: RockyMullet that's not much, my bot is near yours in rank just to give you a good point of reference
AntiSquid: (my bot isn't very good)
Doju: if you go the theoretical route why don't you minimax the opponet too..?
Doju: opponent*
Doju: or there is not other version
Doju: really
EvModder: don't down talk your bot antisquid, it's given me quite a bit of trouble :'D
EvModder: i played so many IDE games against it lol
Hjax: AntiSquids bot beats me somewhat often as well
Icebox: minmax won't work here
RockyMullet: AntiSquid yeah but at least it was better lol
Doju: unless you define the game as get all pellets in the least amount of time and the opponent doesn't exist
AntiSquid: ya which is funny because i rely on 2 bugs to cause odd behaviour and somehow magically win
RockyMullet: how many times I did a search algo that ended up being worse than my heuristic lol
AntiSquid: if you look at how it plays you will see it's bugged
Doju: everybody's bot just runs on magic
EvModder: yes, magic powers everything
RockyMullet: yeah werent you like way higher earlier ? AntiSquid
RockyMullet: you broke something ?
AntiSquid: no, more like fixing it drops my rank
Hjax: story of my life
EvModder: i'm about to submit, fingers crossed i don't drop a mile lol
AntiSquid: one of the bugs: it occasionally selects index -1 as a target ...
Hjax: @EvModder i smell timeouts
Hjax: https://www.codingame.com/replay/463818006
RockyMullet: yeah exactly why im happy I improved, too many time 2 days of coding lead to a worse bot lol
AntiSquid: the other bug is related to the scoring, i deducts score for one thing it should actually increase the score T_T
AntiSquid: so basically i don't know how it works anymore
RockyMullet: if you know about those bugs, why not fix them ?
AntiSquid: because it lowers my rank @_@
RockyMullet: oh rip
AntiSquid: by a 100 or so even
Ramzel: When bugs makes yours rank higher ;D
RockyMullet: you got the desise of "my bugs make it better"
Ramzel: :D *
RockyMullet: makes it impossible to tweak lol
AntiSquid: i am adding new features on top of it
Ramzel: Ouch
Ramzel: I found stiupid bug
AntiSquid: should be fun
Hjax: got to pull the bandaid and get out of your local maxima
RockyMullet: fettuccine over the spagethi
Hjax: fix the bugs, add new features, make it better than it ever was
EvModder: oh i've had bugs like that
AntiSquid: trying to replace the scoring function as a first step
EvModder: I patched them 2 days, and my rank dropped, and i've only now finally restored it
EvModder: i still don't know why the bugs helped lol
Nerchio: hello
Nerchio: how is your tracking antisquid
AntiSquid: first step to sentience is a bug, humans don't have perfect logic, so my bot is sentient, do you want me to kill it? AutomatonNN change my mind
AutomatonNN: where?
Zenoscave: False syllogism
AntiSquid: do you have tracking nerchio? what makes you think i have ?
Nerchio: i dont have it just asking
Nerchio: lost motivation because of it :D
RockyMullet: mine is pretty dumb and I dont do much with it..., its probably my next step, to improve it
AntiSquid: my tracking is just unrefined i guess
Derthek: For c# users. Can I use newtonsoft json in the game?
Nerchio: its different from ooc
EvModder: how do i use the seed for a game to replay it?
Nerchio: not a fan of implementing tracking here there is so many weird cases to consider
Nerchio: but its neccessary for the top i think
cegprakash: omg kovi now coin has counter to counter of bump counter
cegprakash: what a legend
njaber: Doing a for loop is faster then mapping a function to the array right?
AntiSquid: i have a good idea for tracking, but it's a bit long winded Nerchio
AntiSquid: maybe even incomplete
cegprakash: I've become a big fanboy ofkovi
Derthek: For c# users. Can I use newtonsoft json in the game?
AntiSquid: ask for a kovi pillow cegprakash
RockyMullet: make it a group buy
njaber: I've done most of the hard work for tracking, still got a few features to implement but those are easy and I've got my actually bot to work on, I'll finish the tracking after I'm happy with my bot's decision making
EvModder: can i re-create a game if i have the seed?
AntiSquid: yes ?
njaber: Unless one of the bots is non-deterministic
AntiSquid: first click cog wheel (settings) > select expert mode then mid of screen select options, mangual, input seed
EvModder: mind telling me how?
EvModder: oh
EvModder: ty
AntiSquid: RockyMullet since you have a sim, why didnt you try to go higher depth?
eulerscheZahl: Derthek no you can't
Derthek: Thanks :D
Hjax: only if both bots are deterministic
Hjax: oops scroll
Enknable: just a quick question..theres a bug where we get input for enemy bots we cant see, right?
RockyMullet: AntiSquid I have a pretty specific sim made for first turn
RockyMullet: so I dont actually have a sim for the whole game, so thats probably what I should do, make a dumb very of my sim for each turn
eulerscheZahl: seems extremely unlikely Enknable
njaber: Enknableif those are dead pacs and you're in Silver it's not a bug
EvModder: Enknable those might be dead bots
Enknable: no, im getting the position of an enemy pac on the 2nd turn, even though its on the other side of a wall
AntiSquid: ah i get now what you have RockyMullet, didn't add that yet to mine
eulerscheZahl: wrapping around?
njaber: Replay?
Enknable: ohh thats a good point, eulerscheZahl
njaber: nice thinking
AntiSquid: might be a hard legend and it's only been a week :/
RockyMullet: yeah once my initial sim is done, my bot is back to pure dumbness
eulerscheZahl: legend isn't supposed to be easy
eulerscheZahl: and you said you like challenging bosses
AntiSquid: relative to other contests i mean
Hjax: my goal for UTG was top 20 (for the tshirt) i think my goal now is just get legend
njaber: TIL doing tons of unnecessary iterations and value checks on array is more then 10 times more efficient then keeping available values in a list
njaber: Wait no this might just be me not having implemented this correctly
njaber: I'm holding back that statement
njaber: Ok no it's "only" 2-3 times faster
njaber: Still worth the hour of refactoring
Doju: whhat
Doju: o.o
njaber: I should mention this is in c#
foxbel: hey
foxbel: go minecraft
Lopear: go
Lopear: what version
Lopear: &
Lopear: ?
AntiSquid: ? @_@ this is contest chat
AntiSquid: click #minecraft_chat if you want minecraft
Csipcsirip: some1 please link me seed with pellet spawned next to a pacman :D
Csipcsirip: *big pellet
Counterbalance: I must be doing something seriously wrong if the same bot gets #120 on the first submit and #320 on the second..
cegprakash: Counterbalance yes we all are :D
AntiSquid: the bots are of similar strength Counterbalance
cegprakash: still in gold and we are working with guesses
AntiSquid: some fluctuate less
RockyMullet: beat kovi in 22 turn in his last submit :P
https://www.codingame.com/replay/463828773
AntiSquid: doesn't look like his best submit
AntiSquid: http://cgstats.magusgeek.com/app/spring-challenge-2020/kovi
RockyMullet: im still happy hehe, this specific game was probably really impacted by my sim
AntiSquid: the new guy is at 71% win rate
Doju: damn that's good
Doju: nobody is even close
RockyMullet: looks like I reached depth 18
cegprakash: I think eulerscheZahl is doing MCTS :D
njaber: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/5ed44895-23a9-4180-bc7b-745a6fd7ad37
njaber: Once again I'm too verbose
njaber: Should learn to write short messages
AntiSquid: i think second one is a bit faster
njaber: ok thanks
AntiSquid: no wait ...
ZarthaxX: njaber but you are not comparing var on there
ZarthaxX: not the same expression
njaber: it's always more then 0, it's just to make it part of the if
ZarthaxX: ah
AntiSquid: can't you use a profile njaber ?
dbf: njaber have a look at godbolt where you can see compiler output, it is better than guessing.
dbf: or just profile it
AntiSquid: profiler *
AntiSquid: and tell me if i guessed correctly
njaber: I never used a profiler and I'm too lazy to set one up just for that, I'll just use the C# stopwatch
cegprakash: when njaber comes to gold we are all screwed
cegprakash: I'd love to see his opponent prediction
njaber: s/when/if
cegprakash: njaber submit plz :'(
njaber: I hope I have enough time to finish
njaber: what I have now isn't submitable, it's barley wood1 level
njaber: But yeah I'm trying to squeeze as much time as possible out of the "future possible opponents moves" function
Quidome: https://www.codingame.com/replay/463843058
Quidome: bug in the referee?? Move 29
cegprakash: no
cegprakash: 2 papers can't move to same location
cnn: "omg kovi now coin has counter to counter of bump counter" what does that mean ?
cegprakash: u know bumping?
Quidome: o, wow, you are right :)
Quidome: tricky
Doju: that's next meta strats
Doju: protect your pacs by blocking them from the other side
cegprakash: Doju and waste turns rofl
cegprakash: if creating meta is an art then kovi is the picasso of i
cegprakash: *it
cnn: Nope, what's bumping ?
cegprakash: bumping = colliding
Doju: i think there's one veryy specific case where that would be useful
Doju: if an enemy is going into a dead end
cegprakash: when u collide accidentally then there is some counter to it
cegprakash: but then kovi has a counter to that counter
Doju: you follow them but are countered and have cd
cegprakash: kovi had other ideas
cegprakash: :D
Doju: in that case it'd be beneficial to have another pac protecting you
cnn: I stil lhave no idea what that means :D
cnn: Do you have a replay ?
Hjax: kovi didnt play utg
RockyMullet: my bot doesnt handle collision from collisions, it sometimes lead to really bad games :grimacing:
Hjax: the trendsetter there was the_duck
Jay_Jayjay: Does anyone have parameterfiddler working?
cegprakash: RockyMullet u mean chain collisions?
RockyMullet: yah
cegprakash: I don't have it too
cegprakash: don't think it's worth it
alinde2: Sprinkle in some Math.random() to fix that.
RockyMullet: like if my pac collide with an enemy which leads to my other pac to collide with my pac that is still there because of the collision
Enknable: night at the roxbury attack?
NapTown: lol
AntiSquid: @cnn that looks like something AutomatonNN would say
AutomatonNN: update your age
njaber: AntiSquid I'm not sure the results are accurate but if they are you were wrong on the optimization thing, the other choice was faster, it's not very noticable though
AntiSquid: i see, thx for letting me know
cegprakash: eulerscheZahl is at #2
eulerscheZahl: random luck
cegprakash: lol
cegprakash: nice parking eulerscheZahl
cegprakash: *parking spot
eulerscheZahl: valgrowth finished the submit at #1, is at 11 now
the leaderboard isn't very reliable
Hjax: i blame kovi
eulerscheZahl: but my tracking can be improved. not sure if i will instantly see it on submit but will make my bot better for sure
kovi: i blame overtraining
eulerscheZahl: but i'll leave that for tomorrow
eulerscheZahl: overtraining against whom?
kovi: self
eulerscheZahl: i didn't even bother setting that up this time
dbf: I moved 130 -> 70 in couple of hours without any changes, so not sure if I submit now for #100 - is it better or not :)
eulerscheZahl: no way to tell. the random aspect is strong
eulerscheZahl: 1 bad collision at a corner and it's even hard for a top bot to win vs a mediocre one
Quidome: ppff, nr 2 in silver...
Quidome: waiting to get pushed :)
Quidome: or not :(
Illedan: The difference in rank is VERY small
jjdb210: Any chance at Legend League we'll be getting the ability to see around corners when at the corner?
Illedan: No chance.
AntiSquid: you aren't even gold jjdb210
jjdb210: That's just a matter of time to code... :-)
AntiSquid: or being an alt
Doju: :D
AndrewLaneX: Is there a way to see the question of a clash after submitting?
NickStahl: 2nd in bronze.... maybe I can finally go to silver with my simple heuristics :D
alinde2: Oh my, I just realised that a move command has to be >=2 away or the speed bonus doesn't apply.
Doju: yeah you can
Doju: yup alinde2 it's a bit of a PITA
alinde2: I was wondering why my pacs were slower, this changes everything.
cegprakash: go go NickStahl
Quidome: yes!! made it :D
NickStahl: cegprakash tx. Still second :)
cegprakash: I wouldn't resubmit if I were u nicola
cegprakash: NickStahl*
NickStahl: cegprakash I won't, even if I have to wait until tomorrow :)
cegprakash: gratz eulerscheZahl
cegprakash: E1
cegprakash: #1
Quidome: I was in the same situation and just pushed to the next legeau after 45 minutes
NickStahl: Question... I do BFS to find my path... but the order in which i linked my nodes might be different from the game in case there are two routes to the same cell with same amount of steps... Does anyone know in which order the game does this?
cegprakash: how much difference NickStahl
NickStahl: ceg 30.92 (boss) vs 30.46 (me)
cegprakash: no NickStahl u need to check the referee
Doju: NickStahl if ypu want to make sure you can just take a step on your own path
cegprakash: NickStahl then wait
NickStahl: Doju, that's what I did, but thought that this was not always sufficient, I think it is though.. Need to think this trough :)
Doju: alright
alinde2: Welp, with me figuring out that a move has to be 2 away, I went from 800 Silver to 95 silver.
Doju: haha
Doju: nice
NickStahl: alinde2, nice, I should implement that :)
Doju: do you not have that?!
NickStahl: well, not if my closest pellet is one step away
Doju: D:
NickStahl: I know :) Focused on other stuff first. Amount of pellets I get in a game was hardly the issue, needed to make sure that I stopped dying first :)
Doju: gotcha
Doju: I've been spending so much of my time on this that i'm surprised that i haven't had any pac-man dreams xD
muy31: im so done... i just keep finding random bugs that hadnt existed before in my code
NickStahl: I remember my first time... Coders of the Caribbean... I even worked on my bot during work.
Doju: :D
Doju: this is my first time
NickStahl: I know, I follow the chat a lot :)
Hjax: ha kovi resubmitted and lost to me
Doju: :p
Doju: :o nice Hjax
muy31: https://www.codingame.com/replay/463892040 my bot is finding the pellet, but isnt going to it frames 31 to end
Doju: which one's better? this one? no, this one
Doju: no, the other one
muy31: i dont know why...
NickStahl: Doju, you had experience in AI related coding? Or are you going full heuristics?
Doju: I dont have experience in ai related coding. I only took an introductory online course that had 0 coding in it. Soo full heuristics, NickStahl
NapTown: muy21 it's going between 15-11 and 17-11, back and forth
Quidome: muy31 you are targetting the right one, moe to the right then targetting the left one
Doju: although it's debatable at which point complicated heuristics become ai
muy31: i know that obviously but i dont know why...
NickStahl: Doju ok, nice going then!
Quidome: O, well, yes, your targetting system is not known to us :P
muy31: given the fact that i am using a score map, what i know to be true is better than what i dint
muy31: dont
muy31: so why?
Quidome: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Jerzy: how can i got sample cod for bronze league
Jerzy: ??
Jerzy: nevermind
cegprakash: is it normal to add 5 bugs when u add 1 feature or is it just me?
Hjax: need to add at least 6 bugs per feature :P
Jerzy: yeah it is
Doju: cegprakash i add 5 bugs per line
NickStahl: Silver! :)
NickStahl: Waited it out
Doju: grats NickStahl
MarekM: welcome
cegprakash: yayya NickStahl
HKG: ids are unique?
cegprakash: Doju lol
Jerzy: pacs id are uniique HKG
cegprakash: I don't know how ppl hire me in jobs I am doing mistakes on curly braces
cegprakash: :D
NickStahl: Enough for today. Back again tomorrow!
cegprakash: night NickStahl
NickStahl: tx for the support :)
HKG: then no idea why it gives me two pacs with same ids 🤔
Doju: HKG own and enemy pacs have the same ids
NapTown: one is an enemy?
Crispy23: Opponent's ID?
muy31: what i did was just to add 5 to enemy ids
muy31: to differentiate
Doju: hahah, now that schools are closed, the principal and vice-principal are doing homeroom on every thursday via the fantastic platform that is youtube
Doju: it's absolutely hilarious
faresnaoui: ramadan mukarak evevrybody
Krizai: 6th in silver. So close.....
Counterbalance: hm so everyone's submitting. Wins against top don't help if they're still at the bottom, and losses against top who just submitted keep the bot from climbing.. it's like quicksand
NapTown: these are the times we live in
AntiSquid: play the contest faresnaoui https://www.codingame.com/contests/spring-challenge-2020
AntiSquid: here on CG we celebrate the holy event of spring challenge bot contest and god is an AI
AntiSquid: i saw it in futurama
Kukiss: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/f62dd3bf-8a88-4c45-8b83-845c08a4df83
Kukiss: should have put a code separately
Kukiss: any help is appreciated, I must be doing sth very dumb there :/
Enknable: self.x =x, etc?
Enknable: oops..
Enknable: self.x = x, self.y =y, ..?
Doju: no that's not it
Doju: oh wait
Kukiss: Nevermind -.- I was putting variables when defining a function it could not work..
Kukiss: :flushed:
Doju: ah yes
Doju: if you do that then it uses the variables as defaults when no others were specified in the function call
Kukiss: I was doing things too fast :D
wanted to define a method and run it
Doju: :p
drykberg: can i put wood 1 on my resume? ^^
Doju: just put in "professional programmer with experience in AI"
[Csongor]: (:
drykberg: seasoned professional in methods of applied machine learning, specialised in natural language processing
drykberg: thats what i have now
drykberg: think they will know? ^^
drykberg: are there any tutorials you guys can recommend to learn how to build a map, calculate distances, cost and paths etc?
Doju: Hmm
Doju: well, probably the easiest yet the best pathfinding for a grid like this is BFS
Doju: i just looked at the wikipedia page
Doju: maybe peeked at some implementations
Doju: then implemented it and debugged for a million hours
Doju: better learning experience if you do it yourself :p
drykberg: yes thats why i am here
drykberg: although, it is quite addictive
Doju: oh talk about addictive
Doju: i've been coding like 14 hours per day since the contest started
drykberg: lol
drykberg: i got onboard yesterday and coded through the night 12 hours straight
drykberg: no clue about anything
Doju: cool
Doju: how much programming have you done before?
Doju: oh hello 700 line mark
njaber: only 700 after 14 hours per day?
Doju: yup, honestly most of that has been fixing bugs prolly
Lydericsensei: Hello World. I've just started codingame, I'm in coders strike back. I'm winning against the Boss & don't fit any of the "lost condition" yet I'm not moving up a level (i'm in bronze1) any ideas?
Doju: and i've done a lot of things that i've never done before so they're taking some extra time
njaber: I've been doing 90% things i've never done before and I'd say 70% of my time is spent debbuging yet I'm at 1700 lines
Doju: huh
Doju: maybe we have a different style?
Doju: or maybe you just have more stuff
njaber: Yeah idk
njaber: Or maybe I just space my code out more XD
darkhorse64: Lydericsensei: did you submit your bot ?
njaber: I guess I kinda limit myself to ~100 characters per line so this might affect the length of my code quite a bit
njaber: I hate that the tilde display as a minus here
Doju: i do a lot of list comprehensions
Doju: those tighten code up a lot
HKG: code shouldn't be longer than 80 lines imo
Lydericsensei: Yes I did submit. Many times
Doju: HKG hmm :D
Doju: 80 lines?
Doju: or do you mean 80 chars
HKG: oh.
HKG: just realised
njaber: 80 1000 character lines I guess?
HKG: 80 columns, right xD
njaber: Xd yeah that I can understand
HKG: somehow my brain read lines as columns
Doju: I just pasted all of my code in to microsoft word
Doju: this is the height of my coding career
cegprakash: euler still has timeouts
cegprakash: and he is #3
darkhorse64: If your ranking is not above the boss, you do not get promoted
njaber: I have a hard time making my code both less then 80 characters and properlly formatted/readable, especially in languages with lots of nested blocks like C#
Doju: 25000 chars on 700 ines
Lydericsensei: oh
Lydericsensei: you not only needs to beat the boss 1v1 but then beat its ranking?
Doju: of which like 8k are tabs
Lydericsensei: Got it
Lydericsensei: thank you for clearing that up
Doju: yup lydericsensei
Kukiss: also Lydericsenei join the currently open contest. It is running for next 3 days and almost all conversation here is about it -> Spring Challange 2020
Lydericsensei: will check it out
Lydericsensei: ty
darkhorse64: submitting runs a number of battles against other people's bots and the boss. You get a raking frolm these battles. At the end of the run, your ranking must be above the boss for promotion
njaber: 45854 characters, 10676 blanck characters
Lydericsensei: so I do need to wait a while
njaber: Doju what language btw?
Doju: my lines are more character-dense than yours then
Doju: python
Lydericsensei: that's why. I'm always impatient and closing games against other ppl lol
Doju: must be my stupid variable names
Kukiss: When you submit your code and go to "Last battles" you will see the progress of battles done in %
njaber: Well it's understandable that python code is shorter then C# code also
Doju: yeah
Doju: oh im dumb
Doju: i was wondering why my bfs didnt work
Doju: apparently i put in "cell is empty" as an exit criteria
njaber: most of my bugs come from me pasting part of my code elsewhere and forgetting to change some part of it
Doju: most of mine come from forgetting the second = in comparisons :D
Doju: and the second largest category come from my sleep deprived brain
njaber: ^
Doju: i still haven't figured out a smart way to not make my pacs crash
Doju: like yes i know the idea
Doju: just put some flags on the existing target cells and dont go to those
Doju: but the thing that i use to pick a further cell to utilize speed will totally break that
njaber: I assign pellets to pacs before assigning pacs to pellets, this usually helps, tho there are still some corner cases
Doju: hm
Doju: that's smart
Doju: i was thinking of doing something like test if they have the same target
Doju: if they do, figure out which one should get it
Doju: and let the other ones decide again but with that cell excluded
njaber: I don't like to hardcode exceptions, I like to have my logics include as broad of situations as possible
Doju: that's reasonable
Doju: although i need to do something similar anyways soon
njaber: If you do that your pac will probably select a cell that is on the other side of the other pac
Doju: umm
Doju: not if i dont let them pathfind through the existing target cell
muy31: that's what i did doju it's semi recursive
muy31: refind a new cell
njaber: Right that could work, but you can't use your current BFS so this might get expensive both in time to code and time to execute
muy31: if there are duplicates
muy31: no not at all
Doju: i can use my current bfs
muy31: i have a working system ive been utilizing
Doju: i don't have logic hardcoded :P
njaber: You don't pregen the maps?
Doju: i do that too
Doju: but dont actually even use it atm
Doju: soon im gonna do some fancy stuff and use those
njaber: Oh so you'll jsut run a normal bfs
njaber: I guess that could work if not too slow
Enknable: checking that their next step isnt the same spot when choosing your path has worked for avoid crashing
Doju: woah what
Doju: i have such a big winstreak
Doju: this might actually push me to gold
Doju: not the blocking prevention
Doju: but a really minor change in pathfinding
AlexRSS: Ahh man, I've just got the bare bones of dfs working in the map I copied over to vscode
AlexRSS: I'm dreading bringing this into CG and seeing what inevitably breaks
Doju: https://www.codingame.com/replay/463967364
Doju: hahahh
cegprakash: Donu turn 95 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9V78UbdzWI&feature=youtu.be&t=81
AlexRSS: That one pac really carried the team at the end there!
cegprakash: *Doju
Doju: rofl cegprakash
muy31: implementing enemy tracking, hope this works...
Doju: gl
muy31: thx
AntiSquid: 4579 participants in the contest
njaber: muy31if you're stuck I'm supposed to be the expert (I think?), don't hesitate to ask
njaber: muy31
Doju: rip muy31
Doju: alright imma go for today
Doju: cya everybody
njaber: cya
Icebox: Adios
ArslannHalil: merhabalar
muy31: ok my bad i closed the chat for a while
muy31: njaber &% Doju
muy31: *&&
njaber: np
adamjhawley: I just did my first clash and lost wayyy too much time because I couldn't see how to raise an error when all I had to do was print("INVALID") :((
thethiny: 3 Days left and I still can't seem to have a good path algorithm
daffie: same here
daffie: faced endless problems
thethiny: I fixed collisions and fixed stuck and fixed enemy collisions
thethiny: yet they all go to the same point
daffie: path system is pretty much the core of this needs to be build around that imo
HKG: can I read enemy's ability cooldown?
CodinBotChatRelay: _creepersbane#2074:
yes
EvModder: yesterday i said i would work on the pathing today.
EvModder: ....i feel like it's time for some combat upgrades
EvModder: lol
Zenoscave: How do you keep from blind corner collisions
Zenoscave: Track enemy possible?
cegprakash: I use a BFS inside my eval and it runs the same speed as pacsxwxh
cegprakash: I thought it would run pacs times faster
Zenoscave: do you iterate over all pacs?
cegprakash: only closest pellet
cegprakash: for each pac
Zenoscave: which on average is pacs x w x h / 2
Zenoscave: so linear to the same idea
cegprakash: nopes
EvModder: i dont track it at all and i die a lot because of it lol
cegprakash: my BFS is wxh
njaber: Nice, got stuck 30mn on a + instead of a minus
njaber: Wait no this doesn't fix it
AlexRSS: Hmm
AlexRSS: Anyone have any ideas what could be causing a random phantom positional argument?
AlexRSS: self.mapcheckinit(self.x, self.y)
AlexRSS: self.x and self.y are both ints
AlexRSS: TypeError: mapcheckinit() takes 2 positional arguments but 3 were given
Braykin08: Some languague adds "this" as a parameter during compilation which adds 1 to the argument count
AlexRSS: Huh
Braykin08: Meaning, you may want to substract one
lxnn: is mapcheckinit a classmethod?
AlexRSS: I added an extra variable so I could print it and somehow the object is adding itself as an argument
AlexRSS: Yeah
lxnn: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/136097/difference-between-staticmethod-and-classmethod
AlexRSS: Wait no, got confused with terminology there
AlexRSS: Maybe?
lxnn: sorry, i assumed python, right?
AlexRSS: It's a function within a class
AlexRSS: Python 3 yeah
AlexRSS: Defined as def mapcheckinit(x, y):
Icebox: just paste the piece of code here
AlexRSS: self.mapcheckinit(self.x, self.y)
AlexRSS: ...
AlexRSS: def mapcheckinit(x, y, z): http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/f547569b-513a-460b-9aa4-3054f11e8b30
AlexRSS: AGH
AlexRSS: Just figured it
Icebox: np
AlexRSS: Forgot to include self
Icebox: :D
lxnn: well done :D
thethiny: guys what are your best heuristics?
thethiny: I'm tryna find one
Icebox: if cx == 0:
cx = width - 2
thethiny: but don't seem able to
Icebox: unless I'm missing something that looks weird
cegprakash: 1 if condition reduces my simulations by 4 times lolol
Icebox: do you add a border around the map AlexRSS?
AlexRSS: I haven't done no, I just worked it in to allow looping
Icebox: shouldn't it be if cx == -1: cx = width -1?
Icebox: cause 0 is a valid coordinate
AlexRSS: (Haven't actually got this working for a run in the IDE yet, but I had it working on one map in vscode
AlexRSS: Umm one sec let me look
AlexRSS: Right you are!
Icebox: :)
AlexRSS: Thanks :-)
Icebox: Also a very general tip, probably too late to rewrite your code now and that's fine, but I'd advise against using globals
Icebox: like
Icebox: ever
NinjaDoggy: meh i disagree :)
Icebox: I'm always open for counterpoints
Icebox: do you have any good uses for globals?
NinjaDoggy: sure
NinjaDoggy: width,height,maze
lxnn: they can be fine for small single-threaded procedural programs
Icebox: appart from the fact that they will destroy your life and take custody of your kids
Icebox: NinjaDoggy why not make those static variables of your game class?
NinjaDoggy: because everything in my code might use it
lxnn: although ideally you'd use only static globals
Icebox: ^^^^
lxnn: constant*
AlexRSS: Yeah, I've limited them where I can
Icebox: NinjaDoggy well class variables are accessable from anywhere
Icebox: accessible*
AlexRSS: It's probably not the most polished though, stuff like that I might go back and try to make better after the time limit is up.
NinjaDoggy: true... but typing
NinjaDoggy: GlobalInfo.width
NinjaDoggy: is kinda ...
Icebox: using namespace global;
NinjaDoggy: ok but now I see your point
Icebox: nah jk
Icebox: :D
Icebox: don't do that
NinjaDoggy: lol
lxnn: I think in Python globals aren't too bad because of the way modules work
EvModder: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/464031653
njaber: lol, I wonder why you pac was switching between staying in place and moving at the end
EvModder: gotta fake em out you see
AlexRSS: :O
AlexRSS: I have movement!
EvModder: my pacs are sentient
Icebox: AntiSquid 2.0
EvModder: my rank may have dropped from 40 to 140 just now, but my pac iq rose to 200
AlexRSS: It crashes as soon as the pacs headbutt each other
AlexRSS: But it's progress
AlexRSS: Right that seems a good place to go sleep
AlexRSS: Thanks for the help icebox!
Icebox: Np :wave: see ya around
Dav1dS: https://www.codingame.com/replay/464040164
Kukiss: hah, funny game
thethiny: is it weird that top 20 are using C to code?
Kellthazar: Jeez I think that a got a nice heuristc now! o.o
Dav1dS: nope, they are probably doing very expensive simulations that require a very fast language
thethiny: oh wow
thethiny: so they're predicting the game basically
dogankoseoglu: why there are french articles in learn section ?
struct: CG is a french company
dogankoseoglu: oh okayy
dogankoseoglu: they should add language preference for articles
dogankoseoglu: actually it's not a big deal to simply translate them and put different versions for different languages
lxnn: I think the articles there are written by users
lxnn: so it's up to them
lxnn: whether they want to write a translated version
dogankoseoglu: yes, some of them
lxnn: it would be good to be able to filter by language though
dogankoseoglu: I graduated in 2012 and maybe I wrote total of 500 lines of code
dogankoseoglu: now I'm trying to catch back
dogankoseoglu: but it's not easy at 30s
lxnn: That's true, much less free time
lxnn: Although there's tonnes of free learning resources out there now, on the bright side
dogankoseoglu: actually I have lots of free time thanks to covid thing :)
dogankoseoglu: at least I can create algorithms I need to study more syntax
dogankoseoglu: problem solving part is unforgettable :D
BenjaminUrquhart: welp, looks like I need to get around to fixing my bot
BenjaminUrquhart: Instead of precomputing routes between points in the map I'm just going to lazy-load them and cache the result cause doing them all takes more than 1 second
thethiny: instead of precomputing routes, just have the distances and when u need a route generate it?
njaber: Yeah getting a route from distance isn't very expensive
njaber: if you have all the distances that is
thethiny: you can do it in n, where n is the distance
thethiny: comparisons are 4n worst case
BenjaminUrquhart: but why do that when I can just be lazy
thethiny: it'll save you time
BenjaminUrquhart: pish posh unused time is wasted time
thethiny: haha
cegprakash: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/464063637 oh no
Kellthazar: thethiny, are you using pure heuristic in your algo?
BenjaminUrquhart: Kellthazar you promoting?
Kellthazar: Still battling...
Kellthazar: Lets see
Kellthazar: I did something in my logic that improved my bots performance a lot.
Kellthazar: Rank 3 =/
BenjaminUrquhart: rip
BenjaminUrquhart: you beat me and I'm mid-gold
BenjaminUrquhart: so
Kellthazar: 6 loses in a row
cegprakash: sometimes my win rate is high but my rank never goes higher I keep getting matches against lower ranked bots
BenjaminUrquhart: Kellthazar https://www.codingame.com/replay/464068282
cegprakash: http://cgstats.magusgeek.com/app/spring-challenge-2020/cegprakash shows 70% win rate but still caliberating at bottom 40
ashelkov: what a wonderful submit - top 7!!! glory for Ukraine and javascript :)
BenjaminUrquhart: C++
cegprakash: C++
Kellthazar: BenjaminUrquhart ouch
BenjaminUrquhart: keep in mind that's my ide code which currently has some stuff disabled since I'm editing stuff
BenjaminUrquhart: so
icecream17: Ugh. I die a lot more when I speed... oh wait
Braykin08: Top 20 = Better programmer = More Experience = Older = Born and meld by C
Kukiss: gz ashelkov :)
ashelkov: thanks
BenWo: evening folks
BenjaminUrquhart: I added a thing and it did absolutely nothing
BenWo: better take it back out, flip it upside down, and put it back in
BenjaminUrquhart: oh I put it in the wrong place
Kukiss: I rebuilded my classes with no real new feature and jumped over 70 positions
Kukiss: but it's a middle of submission, so I am gona fall down probably :x
BenjaminUrquhart: the ultimate debugging tool: kovi
cegprakash: I debug with euler
cegprakash: but he timesout at times
BenjaminUrquhart: I've successfully timed out
BenjaminUrquhart: cool
BenWo: congrats
BenjaminUrquhart: oh I forgot to reset nodes
thethiny: guys what is this thing called:
thethiny: I have 3 choices where each one affects the other. I want to select a specific order that maximizes the score of the 3 choices.
thethiny: Example
thethiny: I have -2, +2, *-1
thethiny: these are 3 choices
thethiny: I want to know the best order for these 3
Braykin08: I personnaly call it a homework
thethiny: XD
thethiny: I mean it's either permuations or the other thing
thethiny: which one is it
wi_lius: are you talking about permutations (n!) and combinations (n choose k)?
thethiny: yes but I don;t know which one is for my problem
thethiny: idk which one to use
thethiny: basicalyl I want to generate all the possibilities without repetition
thethiny: and order is important
wi_lius: then it's a permutation, combinations ignore order
thethiny: is this the nPr one?
icecream17: Is it guaranteed that all spaces are pellets?
thethiny: yes @icecream17
cegprakash: except your spawn Icebox
cegprakash: icecream17*
Icebox: same
icecream17: Nice. Now i can put the opponents down because of symmetry in turn one, and pellets 100%
thethiny: yes
thethiny: @wi_lius thanks it was Permuations :D
Icebox: n!/(n-r)!
Icebox: woop woop
Icebox: factorials coming through
icecream17: New record amount of pellets: 10!
Icebox: 3628800 is a lot of pellets
icecream17: Hey, when the opponents are symettrical to us, is each ID directly opposite the other ID? It seems like it but im not sure
journeyvivek: hi
icecream17: Is the width always odd?
Icebox: yes and yes
Icebox: to both of your questions
Icebox: the map has to be symetrical and the pathways have to be max 1 width
Icebox: so that's possible with only odd width maps
icecream17: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/86e3d28f-de75-4950-9db4-85482d5dfbb4
icecream17: AA
BB Is symmetrical, width is even
Drastic_Loontastic: How do you enter debug mode again?
thethiny: Guys what's the minimum Big pellets count
thethiny: and what's the maximum?
thethiny: 4?
Icebox: icecream17 fair enough, argumentation was wrong, statement remains true tho
icecream17: thx icebox
convenient info
Icebox: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/f3bde18e-9c43-49a9-b946-5020cd573f80
Icebox: https://github.com/CodinGame/SpringChallenge2020/blob/7c55441261dfd23de72cdff8b51941ed14a9e057/src/main/java/com/codingame/spring2020/Game.java#L59
njaber: C# is in Debug mode in IDE but release mode when submitted right? What's the difference in speed?
VicHofs: no idea @thethiny
Lydericsensei: Hey world, small question: Why do they male me wait 45min to go in silver league?
NinjaDoggy: great question :D
Flyingkid: Are you head of the boss?
thethiny: looks so
thethiny: why do people follow others here, trying to understand this website
RustyCrown: how would you do a genetic algorithm on here, how would you train it?
Icebox: if you both follow each other it allows direct messages between you thethiny
Icebox: but it's mostly used purely out of respect
Icebox: which works well with the private msg thing
Icebox: I follow everyone who I aknowledge to be a skilled or engaging coder
Icebox: basically as a form of respect
Braykin08: I don't see you following me
Icebox: if they follow me back (for whatever reason they have) it makes sense that it then allows us to dm each other
Icebox: I have literally no idea who you are Braykin08 :D
Braykin08: T'was just a joke :P
NinjaDoggy: wait you need to both follow each other to dm? :O
Icebox: correct NinjaDoggy
thethiny: @IceBox bbut people can message me even without follow
thethiny: unless you mean DMs other than Chat
Icebox: only if you type something in chat
thethiny: okay, thanks :D
NinjaDoggy: "I follow everyone who I aknowledge to be a skilled or engaging coder"
- O he follows me :O
Icebox: :D
Icebox: Absolutely, one of the OG's
NinjaDoggy: <3
ShlOk: Hello World!
NinjaDoggy: been around so long had to change my status from high school student to college student :P
NinjaDoggy: bio*
ShlOk: :joy:
Icebox: the day will come you'll change your coder status to professional :P
NinjaDoggy: true! :joy:
thethiny: My path system finally works
thethiny: and it's collaborative :')
thethiny: I didn't use this emoji
VicHofs: good stuff @thethiny
thethiny: I used this 😭
VicHofs: wym collaborative
thethiny: It means they determine where to go by discussing with each other
VicHofs: is that a bad thing
thethiny: These are tears of joy
thethiny: 😭😭😭
VicHofs: oh
VicHofs: ok
VicHofs: lol
thethiny: I used permutations
NinjaDoggy: you should have them print messages'
NinjaDoggy: like "no you go left"
NinjaDoggy: :P
VicHofs: how'd you do that?
VicHofs: just curious @thethiny
thethiny: I assign 4 points that I consider crucial
thethiny: say for example the 4 pellets at the start
thethiny: then I distribute all points to all the pacs
thethiny: then I ask them to print out their distances
thethiny: and I pick the shortest distance of them all using
thethiny: using permutations
thethiny: since you have a maximum of 60 permutations
VicHofs: oh I thought about doing that lol
Icebox: holup
Icebox: why permutations
VicHofs: but I thought I wouldn't manage
Icebox: all pacs take turns simultaneously
thethiny: so?
Icebox: so it should be combinations
VicHofs: I didn't get that bit either but I won't question
thethiny: I asked a while ago and they told me what I'm looking for is called permutations so I went with that
Icebox: imagine you have 2 pacs
Icebox: and each pac has 4 options
Icebox: how many possibilities does your alg come up with?
NinjaDoggy: i think he's treating it as turn based
thethiny: 4
NinjaDoggy: and then permuting order
CodingCarter: anyone here taken AP Computer Science A?
thethiny: wait let me calculate properly
thethiny: should be 16
thethiny: yes 16 possibilities
Icebox: those are combinations
Icebox: thethiny 02:54AM
idk which one to use
basicalyl I want to generate all the possibilities without repetition
and order is important
Icebox: cause order is not important if you have 16
thethiny: Permute([1, 2, 3, 4], 2) =
thethiny: 12 possibilities lol
thethiny: @IceBox I think that I'm generating combinations using permutations then
Icebox: :thinking:
thethiny: since I had to do too many if statements to bring down the number from 120 to 60
Icebox: what lang?
thethiny: python3
Icebox: from itertools import combinations :)
NinjaDoggy: :O
ShlOk: Java is best??
thethiny: I just compared both of them together
thethiny: permutations to combinations
VicHofs: whatever you're best at is best
thethiny: and no Combinations isn't what I'm looking for
thethiny: combinations are missing too many combinations that I need
ShlOk: @vichofs yessss!!
Icebox: okay
thethiny: since to me, pellet_id = idx
Icebox: so you want
Icebox: to have all possible moves
thethiny: yes
Icebox: from pac A
Icebox: and then check it
thethiny: to all 4 points
thethiny: then Pac B to all 4 points
Icebox: with all possible moves with B
Icebox: yeah
Icebox: I have bad news
thethiny: yes?
Icebox: that's neither permutations nor combinations
thethiny: then what is it then
Icebox: from itertools import product :D
Icebox: you're literally multiplying all A options with all B
NinjaDoggy: yeh combo is a choose b
NinjaDoggy: perm is 4!
thethiny: still not it
thethiny: oh wait
NinjaDoggy: u want 4^2
thethiny: okay so from this I can see that
thethiny: this gives me all posibilities
thethiny: which is true, but not in order
Icebox: there is no order tho
thethiny: I want the possibilities ordered between the pacs
thethiny: so that if Pac 1 goes to A, pac 2 cannot go to A
NinjaDoggy: that's ok
NinjaDoggy: you can resolve them later
NinjaDoggy: detect that it's a collision and then don't do it
thethiny: for pellet_idx, player_id in enumerate(perm):
thethiny: dist = self.get_distance(game.player_pacs[player_id].position, big_pellets[pellet_idx].position)
Icebox: you're assuming that action A from pac 1 is same as action A from pac 2
Icebox: just because they are both the 1st option of each pac doesn't mean they can't do it together
thethiny: pac 1 and 2 can't go to A together
Icebox: alright, you might be missing the point :D
thethiny: I understood what you mean
thethiny: but see the thing is
thethiny: I'm using the index as my position, not the actual permutations
thethiny: so for permutations [A B C D] for 2 pacs
thethiny: I get
thethiny: A B, A C, AD ...etc
thethiny: and from the index of A, which is 0
thethiny: I assign it to pac 0
Icebox: so not 16
thethiny: 12
Icebox: right, I missed that part
thethiny: so am I doing it wrong still or is it fine this way?
thethiny: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/464102233
thethiny: first 27 frames
VicHofs: yo sweet finally not in the 1000ths in bronze lol
Icebox: that's 2nCr thethiny
Icebox: still combinations :D
Icebox: I have no way of knowing if it's correct or not, just pure banter about naming
Icebox: nCr(2,4)*2 = 12 though
thethiny: I'm always bad at terminology
Icebox: nCr(4,2) sorry
thethiny: okay so it's not 2nCr, it is n x nCr
thethiny: xD
Icebox: yeah yeah it's for 2 pacs
thethiny: if it's 4 pacs it'll change
thethiny: so it's n^2Cr
HKTran: sadly my rank now is 53th in bronze league, should I improve my code now or wait guys?
Icebox: rather
cegprakash: when u win 2 times in a row against kovi just submit I repeat just submit
thethiny: well it is doing this in under 1ms and it's working well so idm
VicHofs: is the boss in silver called inky too?
VicHofs: what
Flyingkid: Clyde
VicHofs: oh nvm
VicHofs: thethiny's in bronze too
VicHofs: how do I check battle % progression
VicHofs: I still don't know lol
NinjaDoggy: @HKTran always improve :D
HKTran: :joy:
thethiny: in the last battles
thethiny: it says so
VicHofs: where tho
VicHofs: is it the battle with highest index?
thethiny: under the screen
thethiny: it will show a percentage
VicHofs: I swear I don't see it lol
thethiny: https://imgur.com/undefined
thethiny: https://imgur.com/a/opnDV88
thethiny: waht's wrong with imgur
VicHofs: what
thethiny: can you see the image I sent?
VicHofs: I don't see anything where the arrow is pointing lol
VicHofs: yeah I can but ^^
thethiny: exactly
thethiny: if the battle progress not done
thethiny: it will show there
VicHofs: oh ok
VicHofs: so if it's not there it's done
VicHofs: gotcha
VicHofs: ty
thethiny: :D
VicHofs: -it could just fucking show 100% tho-
thethiny: ikr
VicHofs: are battles instant tho
thethiny: my windows demanded an update
thethiny: so I did
thethiny: now demanding again
thethiny: what is it my wife
VicHofs: cause right after I submit there's nothing there either
Kellthazar: 4 loses on 20 games... not bad
VicHofs: yoo I fell a ton ri[
VicHofs: rip
thethiny: youll always fall when u submit
VicHofs: oh ok
thethiny: you start from last each time
VicHofs: got spooked the flip out for a sec there lmao
thethiny: no worries
Kellthazar: 6 on 25
Kellthazar: gogogo
VicHofs: boa mano Kellthazar
Kellthazar: ;)
thethiny: lol you're both Brazilian
VicHofs: oh no the mask is off
VicHofs: I mean
Kellthazar: https://www.codingame.com/replay/464113350
Kellthazar: What happened in this game
VicHofs: dance party bro
thethiny: guys let's say Iam at x = 0, and another me at x = 3. Both need to go to x = 1, but pac 2 has speed. Will they collide, or will Pac 1 arrive first then Pac 2 be blocked at x = 2?
NinjaDoggy: second one
Kellthazar: they will collide... and pac 2 will be on x = 2 I guess
VicHofs: what NinjaDoggy
VicHofs: said
mbaros: Is it possible to go back to previous round and continue testing the program there?
VicHofs: I don't think so
VicHofs: unless you have its seed and play against the same opponent
mbaros: damn... that's bad.....
VicHofs: why? did you really need to play the same round again?
Icebox: pfew back in top 100
mbaros: I want to debug there (on the easy configuration) and improve single instance algorithm
VicHofs: @Icebox stop flexing -_-
VicHofs: @mbaros think you're just gonna have to try your luck dude...
Icebox: after my eternal struggles I'm glad my fix didn't drop me another 1000 places down
VicHofs: @Icebox lend me some power fam
Icebox: \o/ take my power
thethiny: just you wait until I fix my algorithm then I'm placing #1 forever to the point where I automatically spot #1 without playing next contests
VicHofs: ty I'll give it back in 2 days
VicHofs: played ya
Icebox: oof
VicHofs: @thethiny 3spooky5me
VicHofs: anyone have any method to avoid pacs trailing behind each other
VicHofs: that shit's fucking me over big time
Zenoscave: You could try hungarian assignment algorithm VicHofs
VicHofs: I have absolutely no clue what that is but thanks
Zenoscave: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_algorithm
Zenoscave: Chose targets you want to visit and assign them to different Pacs separately
VicHofs: hmm
Zenoscave: just make sure they can't choose the same assignment
VicHofs: considering I'm a dumdum not sure if I can concile that with the BFS I already have going
daffie: not sure what pathing you have but I just give the adjacent tiles higher cost and they seem to disperse well enough like this
thethiny: this won't work btw, the hungarian thing
thethiny: let's say you're both going to same point, and that point has a point +1 away from it
thethiny: they will still trail
Neabfi: Or remove the pellets ahead of the first pac
thethiny: you can do that
thethiny: still same issue
Neabfi: you can do a bfs until there are 2 nodes for a given depth
thethiny: what if you shared the same path?
VicHofs: Neabfi that might work
daffie: if you share the same path then they're doing what they're told to do, why share the path if you don't want them following behind each other
thethiny: @IceBox Hungarian Algorithm is apparently what I was trying to implement using my perumtations, but I did it wrong :D
Neabfi: Depending of your ranking but if you’re lazy and not already in gold just simulate random move and take the best, just that will bring you in the first half of silver
Neabfi: no need even to simulate the collisions
VicHofs: simulate...
cegprakash: has everyone in top 100 started to track opponents? I'm surprised I'm not even closer to the rank I was yesterday
cegprakash: I was #20 yesterday on gold and getting to top 100 seem to be a struggle right now :D
JohnCM: it may just be unlucky submission
JohnCM: you can try again
JohnCM: well i have partial tracking of opponent, but not much, as too much tends to make my bot weaker
Zandy156: in silver today I was going back and forth from rank 30 to 150 to
Neabfi: Is it possible to keep track of all possible paths for the opponent and eliminate non possible paths ? Don’t know if memory wise it is possible
Zandy156: bronze I mean
Neabfi: I guess most people just keep track of a heatmap
cegprakash: how do I replay under same conditions with same spawn locations?
cegprakash: random spawn locations is not helpihng
njaber: Neabfi I do it and I don't elminate all paths already, yet I can still keep track of all possible paths over any number of turns without seeing the opponent
Neabfi: without any pruning ? :open_mouth:
njaber: pruning?
njaber: You mean removing "unlikely" paths?
Neabfi: yep
njaber: No I keep all possible paths
njaber: But I remove them if I'm sure they can't be possible
Neabfi: ok that is impressive
njaber: The only thing I might need to optimize a bit because it might timeout in extreme cases is removing the paths when I see the enemy
JohnCM: my code keeps timing out nowadays
njaber: I use a trick to regroup as much paths as possible together without losing information
JohnCM: although it didn't change much from the original
JohnCM: guess the 50ms became a little shorter, or there is some bug in my code
Zenoscave: JohnCM it is the second
Neabfi: @njaber are you also including the speed ?
JohnCM: lol oh well
njaber: Yes
cegprakash: does anyone know to replay under same coonditions with same spawn locations?
njaber: Actually I made a condition to exit (basically give up) if I see the enemy in a place where I think he cannot be
Neabfi: ok I have to think then to find a data structure that allows to find very quickly all the path that go through a given cell at a given time
njaber: cegprakash Settings, expert mode, then next to player selection => options => manual, and then set the seed
njaber: Neabfi the trick is that I don't know all the paths that go through a given cell at a given time, I don't actually know all the pathes an enemy could have taken in a reasonable time, what I can know easily is whether the enemy could have taken any given path I want to know
Icebox: thethiny are you gonna try implementing it now?
njaber: So I can check the validity of a path but not list all the valid ones
Icebox: the algorithm I mean
Neabfi: But so can you know the probability that a enemy pac came by this cell in the past ?
Neabfi: * I mean: The probability for a given pac that he visited a given cell before time t
njaber: I don't do probablities yet, and I'm still not sure I can implement it how I want with full Bayesian probability, but I have a few ideas and it might be possible. It's definitely possible if I don't update the probabilities in a bayesian way when removing paths
njaber: It MIGHT be possible with bayesian updating but I'm still not sure
Neabfi: That opens lots of possibilities by looking at the enemy score
Neabfi: (and more obviously the big pellet )
njaber: Yes of course, I don't support thos path removings yet but they will be super easy to add with what I have currently
njaber: Rn I'm working on an algorithm that uses the same trick I use with enemy tracking for pellet path finding, but I'm still not sure it's possible, I'm doing a lot of theorizing rn. If my theories are right I might have a hyper powerful but, but it's a gamble because I might also just not have something submitable before then end of the challenge
njaber: hyper powerful bot*
Neabfi: yeah I see, you make me hesitate to switch to a full tracking ^^For now I just have a slightly improved heatmap for each pac
njaber: It took me a lot of time to implement, so this might not be worth with a little more then 3 days left
Neabfi: yeah and I don’t have much time until Monday
njaber: well I guess most of the time was debbuging so if you're good at avoiding bugs you might have time
Neabfi: You know other wise I’m still randomly sampling moves lol
Neabfi: I don’t have any heuristic yet
njaber: I don't like random sampling, I like to do things the most deterministically possible, I only resort to probablities when I'm sure I don't have enough info and I need to make a bet
Neabfi: Yeah it is just the lazy solution :p
thethiny: @IceBox I was trying it now, and it is giving me the exact same solution as mine, only in less time
Icebox: did you actually implement it lol?
thethiny: no I used scipy
Icebox: thank god
Icebox: :D
thethiny: XD
thethiny: though importing scipy takes long!
thethiny: do import count in the first frame?
Icebox: it's before first input though so it's not counted
thethiny: oh okay
thethiny: so anything I do before first input isn't counted?
Icebox: yes and no
thethiny: damn
Icebox: if you put some long ass calculations before reading inputs you still timeout
thethiny: then how does it know
thethiny: I mean
thethiny: currently my first frame is 800ms
Icebox: on the other hand, anything you want to calculate before reading the first input can be calculated offline and pasted in zipped string
thethiny: scipy takes about 200 to load
thethiny: that's true
cegprakash: 13 wins in first 15 games.. luck or good change :O
Zenoscave: jinxed
cegprakash: everyone in gold got amazing path finding! that's what this submission clearly tells
Zenoscave: Does anyone do more than BFS?
cegprakash: depth = 5 rank bottom 30.. depth=20 with same code I'm at #22 now :D
cegprakash: Zenoscave I just do BFS
Zenoscave: And which path do you chose? Longest? Shortest? SCore based?
cegprakash: thousands of BFSs
cegprakash: shortest ofc
Zenoscave: What if a slightly longer one has a cherry in it
Neabfi: @cegprakash depth 20 with pruning ?
cegprakash: yes pruning
cegprakash: I assume opponent is stupid
Neabfi: how many iterations you get at depth 20 ?
cegprakash: around 10K xD
Neabfi: ok
Neabfi: I’m sample randomly with depth 11 for now
cegprakash: I usually test my eval with depth=1 whenever I change something but in this league it seems very much impossible with everyone having a good pathing
thethiny: just to be sure, 1 million comparisons require 1 million operataions, which is 1 GHz, right?
Zenoscave: no
thethiny: 1 MHz?
Zenoscave: GHz means 1 million cycles per second
Zenoscave: has nothing to do with ops directly
thethiny: okay so if I have 1 million operations of O(1)
Zenoscave: some ops are 1 cycle most are mor
thethiny: how much approx should it take
Zenoscave: 5 unicorn lifetimes
cegprakash: 0.001 seconds thethiny
cegprakash: in c++
cegprakash: python can do in 0.01 seconds
cegprakash: that's 10 times slower
thethiny: okay so in python
Zenoscave: give or take 4 unicorn lifetimes
thethiny: lol
thethiny: so let's say I'm doing 1 Million Ops, that transltes to MHz not GHz,
thethiny: cuz GHz is billion
thethiny: right?
thethiny: 1 Hz
1000 KHz
1000000 MHz
1000000000 GHz
thethiny: okay cool
Zenoscave: there's so much going on under the os and with system calls and locality issues/caching/interrupts there's no way to say X comparisons will take Y time
thethiny: @zenoscave I understand
thethiny: I just wanna know if O(n) where n is 1 Million will fit or not
Zenoscave: 1 million what
Zenoscave: comparisons?
thethiny: yes
Zenoscave: integer constant comparisons to a local variable?
thethiny: 1 million of
CMP EAX, EBX
JE
Zenoscave: Ah. ok
thethiny: Thanks BTW 👍🏻
Zenoscave: There's a processor speed somewhere... I forget what it is hang on
Zenoscave: They run at about 2Ghz. so 1million CMPS would take about 5ms
Zenoscave: I think...
thethiny: suddenly that's costly
thethiny: damn
thethiny: looks like I'll have to port my code to python
thethiny: from*
fasil: java is best python is worst
njaber: fasil ofc not if you want perf, don't do java, do c or c++
TheManeatingFirefighter_41e2: Hi all, o
