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jsprieto10: hi

MadKnight: hey

kovi: top5 is very close

cegprakash: oh no:

kovi: oh, nice swag!

Swagboy: Thanks kovi!

Swagboy: What I've been trying to do was almost too ambitious even for one month!

kovi: did you set up an NN?

Swagboy: No a partial information mcts

Swagboy: I already have issues with the 100ko limit without a NN

eulerscheZahl: you have a NN?

Swagboy: No no

kovi: wow, you have very nice stat vs. top

Swagboy: Yes around 50% on good benchmarks

Swagboy: But just had a 10+ loses row

dbdr: noise

kovi: you may push joli to #1

kovi: oh, you did cgbench?

kovi: just scrolled up

kovi: what was you winrate vs. me?

eulerscheZahl: you submit too often to tell

Swagboy: I usually bench around 50% against you kovi

kovi: thx

Swagboy: But since I reached the top 10 quite late, I've got many feature a bit untested

Swagboy: First I think that my bot is still too aggressive

metahom: omg, it seems like PonyCode has protection from being played in ide

Swagboy: Hence maybe good winrate against strong bot but average winrate against average bots

kovi: hmm, interesting point

Swagboy: Most of my defeat I shoot first

Quidome: he guys did you stay up all night?

kovi: move shoot?

kovi: that is a risky order

Swagboy: Sometimes just shoot without silence

eulerscheZahl: no Quidome, i'm the early bird

Quidome: :D

Swagboy: It's indeed risky, but the risk is somehow calculated by the mcts

eulerscheZahl: this very code was at 23 1h ago, now i'm stuck around 50 :/

Swagboy: But what is underestimated is the loss of 3 charge points

Quidome: last few hours, any interesting last time arrivals?

eulerscheZahl: swag

Swagboy: yes?

eulerscheZahl: Quidome 07:12AM last few hours, any interesting last time arrivals?

Quidome: ah, yes top 5, nice work!

Swagboy: Oh right

Swagboy: thx Quidome!

Quidome: and calculating...

Quidome: Kovi at first positon while crunching, all interesting. Is there a life speaker :P

kovi: not any more...

Quidome: i just dropped out of the tp 10% :(

Quidome: can't wait for the next one and it is comming soon. I think i go for Rust. Performance was killing me this contest

eulerscheZahl: always depends on the game if you need the performance

Swagboy: Which langage did you use?

kovi: 4xpython in top10-20, it was not that crucial this time

eulerscheZahl: code4life had lots of heuristics at the top mean max was a simulation festival

Quidome: First Python, then switched to Java

eulerscheZahl: java sounds fast enough

Quidome: little bit unpredictable

eulerscheZahl: garbage collection?

Quidome: yep

Quidome: but, I have to design for performance as well

Quidome: Blaming Java is not right

Quidome: But, it was great fun :D

Quidome: Correctness is more important then anything

Quidome: A stupid bot with good tracking is already in silver, maybe gold

FrankR: Gold - says my stupid bot :)

Nickname_Za007: Hello

Nickname_Za007: I wonder why lately clash of code servers respond so slow

Nickname_Za007: or its just my internet

mlomb: its a contest

mlomb: welcome to legend martin, are you the last one?

thibpat: Hi :wave: I'm going to take a last try to improve my Ocean of Code before the end of the competition, live on

Illedan: Writing new very untested features right now hoping they would work :scream:

dbdr: same Illedan :)

mlomb: will you finish the rewrite on time Illedan?

dbdr: finishing a rewrite with a one hour deadline, that would be so stressful

ZarthaxX: risky move Illedan

dbdr: live dangerously

Illedan: I have that up yesterday mlomb. Now I'm only adding ifs :P

mlomb: nice then

kovi: my ifs failed

ZarthaxX: my life failed

mlomb: the contest failed

Illedan: :(

ZarthaxX: Illedan he is kidding

ZarthaxX: good contest :)

dbdr: very interesting game

mlomb: nah its good

Illedan: \o/

mlomb: I'm joing

mlomb: joking*

Illedan: A little too deep :P

dbdr: brought something new in my opinion

mlomb: I just feel too much randomness :P

ZarthaxX: randomness? :P

Illedan: Yeah, sadly too much randomness

mlomb: maybe I'm just bad

Illedan: Not sure what would have fixed it though

Illedan: Visible enemy? :D

dbdr: yes, uncertainty is fundamental to the game

dbdr: that's what makes it interesting

dbdr: but then you can get more or less lucky, and only many games will show the skill, when it is close

dbdr: as always, of course

Illedan: I can't decide on a number :scream:

Illedan: 1 or 2?

dbdr: 1.5?

Illedan: Has to be whole

dbdr: 1 + rand(2)

Illedan: naaah

Illedan: I need determinism :P

Illedan: It's one of my most important numbers

dbdr: what is it?

Illedan: How much hp I have left to force a stupid move instead of surface :P

dbdr: stupid move can cost you more than 1?

Illedan: sure

dbdr: then 1 :)

dbdr: wait, the other one ;)

pb4: reCurse 05H44 I'll go with pb3 for the meme :D

pb4: please no -_-

Illedan: pb3?

Illedan: 3rd place? :P

struct: yes

dbdr: Illedan

dbdr: will be deterministic once you see it

Illedan: It is 2 now

Illedan: and this thing is still climbing

Illedan: :)

dbdr: yes, doing well, don't touch it

Illedan: Looks like new feature worked ok

Illedan: sweeet

Illedan: Or Im just lucky

Illedan: and will be crushed down to > 20

Illedan: :scream:

dbdr: come back in 5 hours to find out ;)

Illedan: 8 wins 1 lose vs blaster on this one. It's a winner.

dbdr: cherry picking the opponent? ;)

Illedan: Picking the best stat in Cg.stats :D

dbdr: I have 100% on kovi ;)

dbdr: spoke too soon :D

Illedan: 100% vs jolindien :D

dbdr: 67% vs Illedan ;)

Illedan: Let's not read tooooo much from these numbers

dbdr: as long as it's for fun...

Illedan: :D

dbdr: no time left for precise measurements now

dbdr: your bot looks good at #6, leaving it there I guess?

Illedan: Yes ofc

Illedan: This is the highest I have been in very long

dbdr: me too. good timing :)

Illedan: But, there is a whole bunch in submit..

Illedan: But you win too much vs me

Illedan: :thinking:

Nerchio: i can keep submitting until the time runs out?

dbdr: Nerchio yes

Illedan: Sure

ZarthaxX: didnt previous rank affect you on recalc?

dbdr: the final rank of your last sumit is your starting rank for recalc

Nerchio: ok give me a good run lets go :p

tobk: hm, dropped from G50 to G90 over night :-(

JFB: It looks that my bot is the_Gold_Boss_killer. Just run 6 runs in IDE - 6 wins. What the pity that my bot is stack in 70-80 gold range and can not play with Boss ...

Nagatwin: recalc will take years haha

Nerchio: :s

Default avatar.png anid: wd pb4, looks like ur win is assured

mark7: and here I am stuck in silver

dbdr: Illedan :O

Illedan: :angel:

dbdr: noob ;)

Illedan: hahaha

Riyuk: :joy:

Illedan: Just gonna test 2 different values for something

Default avatar.png anid: Illedan resubmit?

MichaelPu: what happens if your bot is in the middle of re-ranking when the time ends?

dbdr: the ranking continues

Illedan: Everyone has to wait for it to finish

Illedan: before rerun is done

dbdr: only new submits are blocked

MichaelPu: so the final results come only ~30 mins after the deadling?

mlomb: ha ha

Illedan: nah

tobk: yes, back to G55, now stay there! good bot.

Illedan: in 4 hours

JFB: For legend even later

dbdr: + several hours of recalc

Illedan: All Legend players are given 1000 new matches

MichaelPu: oww

tobk: how was it? recalc is for max(legend, top100)?

Illedan: *min

tobk: okay, no guaranteed no recalc in gold and only top 100 of legend?

JFB: yes

MichaelPu: so no matter what place you are in legend, you will be re-calced anyway?

tobk: do the top 100 then only play among themselves, or against all in legend (randomly), and can they drop below 100th rank?

Illedan: Correct

Illedan: Only vs legend players

MichaelPu: sounds fair :)

Illedan: and they can drop to the end of legend

Illedan: If you suddenly lose all :P

darkhorse64: Min your last minute submit

darkhorse64: *Mind*

MichaelPu: that actually changed my strategy a bit

MichaelPu: I got 2 sets of parameters - 1 is good against ranks 10-30

MichaelPu: and the other one against ranks 10-60

Illedan: Adding a timer? :P

dbdr: and not mess it up

MichaelPu: no, just a slight change of parameters

MichaelPu: it's crazy, 2% change in a parameter value can be the difference between 15th place and 30th place

Illedan: euler submitted something new?

dbdr: another noob

tobk: some bots also print funny messages (do they still do that in legend?), you could change your strategy based on those

tobk: one was singing the Portal song...

JFB: Your bt do not see messages

tobk: oh, you are right, I forgot

Illedan: That would be wierd :P

JFB: For example message of one bot for another: could you kill yourself, please? ;-)

Illedan: So you need to at AI to understand the message :P

Illedan: And have a chat

JFB: Next level of AI :-)

Default avatar.png WINWINWIN: Guys, for back to the code I shud use manhattan distance?

Illedan: sure

JFB: And AutomatonNN will win :-)

AutomatonNN: what is the problem?

Illedan: AutomatonNN can you SURFACE?

AutomatonNN: eulerscheZahl is there a way to see a problem with the statement

JFB: :-D

Illedan: haha

mark7: Hope my current submit passes silver

Illedan: My submit is winning its way back top 20 at least. Means it wasn't just luck :D

dbdr: Illedan did you put back your previous one?

Quidome: tik tak tik tak

Default avatar.png duckquackduck: thanks for the contest guys. it was fun!

Quidome: Yes it was!

MichaelPu: sent a resubmit, turned off debugging :)

wlesavo: happy new year

MichaelPu: save some ms

ZarthaxX: finally its ending

ZarthaxX: D:

Quidome: just entered the top 10%

Quidome: me happy :D

Swagboy: ::)

Nerchio: i like that its ending i dont like that my submit is trash

ZarthaxX: lol

ZarthaxX: rip tshirt?

ZarthaxX: gg!

Swagboy: 15 first tshirt ?

Nerchio: i cant be top 20 for sure :p

mlomb: gg

kovi: top5 is still balanced

mark7: gg

ZarthaxX: 20 Swagboy

Illedan: gg

Swagboy: nice

mlomb: gg

Quidome: We get a recalculation before we know the official winner?

Illedan: yeah

Illedan: Come back in about 4 hours :)

Illedan: dbdr, this was my old yeah

Quidome: aha

ZarthaxX: Quidome not for whole leaderboard

Swagboy: top 4 kovi

Quidome: complete legen i hope

kovi: truel, i cant tell where siman lands

Swagboy: Oh right he may come

Swagboy: Well played everyone, I'm going to bake a chocolate cake to celebrate


AntiSquid: lol guess i got randomly dropped over night again

AntiSquid: kinda lame considering it can go either way

ZarthaxX: f squid

AntiSquid: anyone got a link to the leaderboard please?


AntiSquid: thanks

AntiSquid: oh shit i am barely above that top typescript guy, hope i don't get dropped :(

AntiSquid: have a long story to tell, will post feedback in few days probably

ZarthaxX: long story?

ZarthaxX: lol

wlesavo: so its gonna be a full resubmit now?

kovi: how many actual players?

struct: legend

Nagatwin: 2279 kovi

ZarthaxX: structoooooooo

kovi: thx

AntiSquid: why is that a problem ZarthaxX ?

struct: hi ZarthaxX

ZarthaxX: didnt say it was a problem

ZarthaxX: hi tobo

thanos.a: is there a way to change the default text when starting a clash of code ?

tobk: the code stubs?

thanos.a: yap

Quidome: 17 days, 7 hours, 45 minutes for the next one!

AntiSquid: thanos should have used his glove to destroy clash of code instead

thanos.a: marvel came after me ..

dbdr: did Siman mess his bot? he's looking low at 50%

thanos.a: my name was there years before them

Illedan: Above dbdr :D Good plan to submit again

Illedan: xD

dbdr: not so noob after all

Illedan: 12-6 is very close..

dbdr: up to 5 even

Illedan: true

Illedan: kovi crush me, but I'm 50% vs ValGrowth

Default avatar.png CacheCoherence: Hey, how do I look at the question of a clash of code game once its done?

kovi: i hope illedan stays high, he is good vs. pb4 as well

dbdr: Illedan I have the opposite :D

Illedan: :D

pb4: Illedan get out of there !

Illedan: that is 4 games vs pb4 :P

pb4: that is 4 too many

kovi: one can still hope. top4 alone i have the worse chance

dbdr: why worse?

kovi: (at least with latest runs winrates)

kovi: if it will be top4 games only

kovi: (would be)

AntiSquid: that's why puzzles are better CacheCoherence

Default avatar.png Santyx_Orrer: will the contest go on as a competion? if so when?

Illedan: It will become a multiplayer

Illedan: Hopefully today, but I'm waiting the response from CG team.

kovi: wow

AntiSquid: the dream

Default avatar.png Santyx_Orrer: multiplayer in the sense you have more subs?

Sissiimperatice: gg kovi ;)

Sissiimperatice: gg all

AntiSquid: no

Illedan: No Santyx_Orrer, only 1 sub. But you can find the game in the multiplayer section

AntiSquid: it means you can play it after the contest

Illedan: So that you can continue, except the contest part is done

Default avatar.png Santyx_Orrer: Illedan: thx

Default avatar.png CacheCoherence: Can anyone answer ^^^

Default avatar.png CacheCoherence: Oh so it isnt possible AntiSquid

Default avatar.png CacheCoherence: ?

JFB: Quidome - oficial for Legend - after recalculation. Official for other leagues - now

AntiSquid: no CacheCoherence

AntiSquid: do puzzles, start with easy ones

Default avatar.png CacheCoherence: Damn,

AntiSquid: or do multiplayer

pb4: @byebye Illedan, not thank you for the 4 losses :rage:

Illedan: :sob:

AntiSquid: lol you don't know what recalc will do

Illedan: Just wait for the rerun :evil:

Illedan: Just wait for my lucky 20 first wins

ZarthaxX: lol

ZarthaxX: pb gettin demolished in 3.

kovi: it is also intertesting that makers can play, just not win (i lost some places on coif wiht bad winrate vs. azkellas)

Illedan: I can win this one

Illedan: (not with this code)

Illedan: but in theory

JFB: When OoC multi will start? Tomorrow?

dbdr: Illedan be afraid, I have a good rate against you :)

Illedan: I'll let you know as soon as CG responds to my question

Illedan: shh dbdr, let me have hopes

ZarthaxX: euler shark died already?

ZarthaxX: :P

ZarthaxX: toad is back

Illedan: Toad \o/

dbdr: you go up and I feed off you, win-win

JFB: long live toad :-)

ZarthaxX: servers dying in 3...

Illedan: :scream:

JFB: Only 2,5 week for start of the new contest. My family will kill me ...

Illedan: Tell them you need to isolate from Corona somewhere far away :P

AntiSquid: no last minute troll submit wood to legend ?

AntiSquid: dissapointing

Illedan: JFB, multi should be ready later today :)

JFB: I'm working from home for last 5 weeks. Now I can tell that I have return to working from joffice (nobody in the office now)

JFB: Thanks Illedan

JFB: :-)

AntiSquid: oh wow they lifted lockdown in poland?

JFB: Not

AntiSquid: i missunderstood then, when do you return to your office

JFB: It is not prohibited to work in the office.

AntiSquid: well here they try to minimize movement

JFB: Becouse in this moment in my job nobody in the office - I can be only one on the floor of the building :-)

AntiSquid: do you like it that way?

NormantasStankevicius: okay, the competition has ended, is there a place to see the final leaderboards?

ZarthaxX: NormantasStankevicius it wasnt computed yet

JFB: I'm working by remote desctop. By one of the probrams I use need to be started from the keyboard - so I can yose it remotelly but to start it 1st time I have to log on on the keyboard in the office.It is strange

NormantasStankevicius: Also, as my first proper competition, I'm kinda happy placing low gold. Tho took too much time to get there, was great to learn some new algorithms, that I could use in graphical issues or just 2d grids... this was a fun, yet emotionally and in general hard run

NormantasStankevicius: ok ZarthaxX, will be waiting, I was competing for my school ratings, cause my teacher asked me to help, curious how the final placements end

JFB: NormantasStankevicius - Gold rating is now final. Only final results on Legend will be after few hours

ZarthaxX: NormantasStankevicius ah i see, gz dude

AntiSquid: NormantasStankevicius well apart from legend it's all part of the final leaderboard

JFB: NormantasStankevicius - so it looks that your school is #19/34 and you are #2 in your school. :-)

Illedan: Rerun :scream:

wlesavo: dam, being on the edge of top 20 is stressful

dbdr: Illedan you'll get demoted to gold at this rate

Illedan: dbdr grrr

Illedan: Damn you are eating my score

dbdr: wlesavo good luck! you deserve top 20 for sure!

Illedan: :wave: top 10 hopes

wlesavo: dbdr i hope youll make it to top 10 :slight_smile:

Illedan: I hope Rust stops working very soon now

dbdr: thanks! would be nice, but I already have that achivement, so no big stress

dbdr: and top 3 is out of reach

VincentBab: top20 !! let's hope

dbdr: Illedan :rage:

dbdr: 10% already, going pretty fast

wlesavo: im also eating illedans points a little

AntiSquid: Val is doing very well

TimAI: hey guys, is it cheat from toad ? ))


Illedan: Nah

dbdr: why would it be cheat?

TimAI: only trigger, is it ok?

Illedan: sure

dbdr: sure

Illedan: I forgot to implement it though

Illedan: :(

dbdr: 1 action per turn min

TimAI: wow, ok, thanks

Nerchio: 37 feelsbad :(

AntiSquid: obvious hax from toad /s

gkcs: Wow, that was a fun contest!

dbdr: wlesavo staying stable?

Default avatar.png anid: Are the last submits being evaluated rn?

wlesavo: dbdr yeah, seems like i will get my tshirt :slight_smile:

wlesavo: wow, top 4 is so close

wlesavo: with jolindien taking lead

Illedan: I'm free falling :(

struct: Top 3 so close to each other

wlesavo: did not think it would be that close, 0.1 difference

MSmits: I've been less than 0.01 above the nr 5 one time, difference wasnt visibile

kovi: top4, not top3

wlesavo: Illedan mars landing

wlesavo: but im feeling for you

MSmits: leaderboard is so random though...

MSmits: the differences between the players so small

dbdr: top 4 seems clear

MSmits: you mean compared to the rest

MSmits: thats not my definition of clear, they are close to eachother... very

pb4: dbdr : I'd like to have clarity inside the top 4 :/

dbdr: yeah...

pb4: I'd like it even more if clarity was in my favor :D

dbdr: breathe ;)

struct: rererun top 4

MSmits: struct they won't

struct: I know

MSmits: the main problem is not the system here and a rerun would not solve anything

AntiSquid: 1 point difference isn't small

wlesavo: benchmark top 4

MSmits: the problem is that the bots are too close together and there will never be a clear result

MSmits: because it depends on rock paper scissors also

wlesavo: till you satisfied with results pb4

MSmits: if you add in player nr 5 to the rerun, the end result for player 1 is different maybe

struct: My bet is still on pb

MSmits: and if you add in player 6... it would be different again

MSmits: bots can simply be too close to call a clear winner and there's nothing you can do

MSmits: but pray to rng gods

pb4: That's what I do...

struct: From my calculations

struct: you get 1st 2nd 3rd or 4th place

MSmits: gj on those calcs struct

wlesavo: 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th in the same time

Illedan: Seems I managed to stabilize when out of dbdr's range :phew:

struct: What if they all end up with same points

struct: I didnt take this into account

RoboStac: the

dbdr: Illedan maybe I don't play against you anymore, but you should

dbdr: so only half

RoboStac: they're much more precise on the server

RoboStac: so I'd imagine it's just sorted by that

RoboStac: though at that point pretty much any order is valid

struct: I see

dbdr: clue TGD ;)

RoboStac: as it basically means they're the same strength

wlesavo: even reverse

Illedan: They seem to move consistently now though

struct: So its just not 2 decimals

wlesavo: wow, kovi droped to 3 even

JFB: 0.12 diff #1 - #4

MSmits: Euler and I are 0.07

MSmits: much more interesting than top 4 imho :P

eulerscheZahl: i used to be 21st when the rerun started :/

Illedan: I was 10th :P

eulerscheZahl: but maybe i'll pass Illedan at least :D

MSmits: yeah I saw

Illedan: then dbdr kicked me out


dbdr: lb before rerun

Illedan: :sob: all my hopes :boom:

JFB: MSmits - #20 - #21 is much more interesting imo ;-)

MSmits: lol ok

MSmits: 0.03....

MSmits: 0.02 now

JFB: Exactly :-)

MSmits: i am talking about me and Euler still :P

dbdr: surely would be first for VincentBab

AntiSquid: the french flag all over the place

JFB: Not in school leaderboard ;-)

AntiSquid: hard to take the 2 new categories seriously when so many companies/schools are automatically excluded

wlesavo: wow, but whole top 10 in companies

MSmits: makes total sense

JFB: excluded?

AntiSquid: i mean some people could solo climb on those 2 leaderboards

MSmits: CG is used as a recruiting tool for French companies mostly

MSmits: would not expect anything else

AntiSquid: what does that have to do with recruitment?

JFB: pb4 - #1 now

AntiSquid: if anything it works against them

dbdr: hugary and japan are resisting to the french domination

MSmits: because if there is a business relationship dont you think many players here would work in that company?

MSmits: and be on that team?

N8_Name: baaa

MSmits: over 25 people from Thales and amadeus

MSmits: which are the two companies that had the most contests on CG

struct: amadeus sponsored UTG

AntiSquid: that still doesn't make any sense, there could be a company with no relation to CG and top that leaderboard, what does that have to do with anything?

dbdr: cause or consequence?

N8_Name: @SanduCristi

SanduCristi: @N8_Name

SanduCristi: :))

N8_Name: :))

MSmits: AntiSquid visibility

AntiSquid: and the polish university only advertises itself being there first

AntiSquid: but you don't need a relation with CG for visibility

AntiSquid: and if someone can solo the leaderboard they get visibility too

AntiSquid: it's probably to prevent the new categories to look to much like the solo ladder, but again it doesn't mean much the way it is now

MSmits: well i dont know how to explain my thinking any other way. If a company sponsors contests, draws good CG players into their employ, then motivates their employees to join CG contests to make the company visible

MSmits: ...

MSmits: it makes no sense for a German company to do this, because CG is not very visible to Germany

MSmits: it's not their market

AntiSquid: but as i said the wroclaw uni self-promotes well, i guess i would try there if i was going to uni and wouldn't mind the country ? eh ? looks more fun

MSmits: uni != company

AntiSquid: was talking about the 2 categories though

MSmits: ah

MSmits: yeah I could promote CG on my school, but i dont think many are good enough to get anywhere

MSmits: i might pass the 3 player mark though and get it on there

AntiSquid: it makes the school appear more appealing/fun

MSmits: yeah

aCat: I'd love that some people see it as promotion ;-)

AntiSquid: ya i get what you are saying, but any other company can come and wreck the top, even without motivation to recruit people

AntiSquid: just casually

MSmits: true

Nerchio: aCat so you're a teacher not a student?

aCat: yep

AntiSquid: yes

Nerchio: you were better than your students then :joy:

AntiSquid: switch university Nerchio

AntiSquid: and tell your teachers to come beat acat in next contest

Nerchio: in my uni i have to learn Ocaml, my next bot in ocaml maybe? xD

AntiSquid: why ocaml ?

Nerchio: idk

Nerchio: dont ask me

AntiSquid: do they also ask you to learn java and typescript?

Nerchio: so far we usually write in C xd

RoboStac: I'm guessing it's to teach functional programming?

Nerchio: i dont mind any language but i hate functional languages to be honest

Nerchio: i look at ocaml and i dont get it xD

Nerchio: i think my bot could've ended a couple spots higher but unlucky last submit

wlesavo: kovi droped from top 3 :worried:

Nerchio: they're all like 0.03 points apart though

wlesavo: i think top 4 actually now in reverse order from before the recalc

Illedan: Less and less about luck

Default avatar.png lxnn: At my uni the first programming course was taught in Haskell :sweat_smile:

Default avatar.png lxnn: I think using functional programming for CS education started in the days of lisp/scheme

Default avatar.png lxnn: Definitely good languages for AI programming, but difficult to master well enough to really optimise your code

pb4: "wlesavo 12H12 i think top 4 actually now in reverse order from before the recalc"

pb4: Let me correct that

pb4: "i think top 4 actually in correct order now"

Illedan: Jinx!

JFB: :-D

wlesavo: pb4 :grinning:

JFB: pb4 - you have to add " ... and one of my most important advantages is modesty ..." ;-)

Default avatar.png PerpetualTopHat_435a: hi

JFB: MSmits - it looks that you win your small but maybe the most important victory (over euler ) :-)

metahom: eulerscheZahl, Illedan, CG team, thanks for contest!

JFB: Nerchio - if your bot was in OCaml - you will be #1 in this language


pb4: JFB :D

AntiSquid: pb4 so what were you using for your bot that required more than 100kb space?

JFB: kovi - I think that you resubmit semi automatically to generate a lot of matches to use it for train NN or optimise parameters locally (using logs). Is it true or it is only my "conspiracy theory" ?

kovi: nope, i just used it as the only method of assessing improvement

JFB: OK. So it is only my "dirty mind" :-)

MSmits: JFB I was mostly kidding though, I have no rivalry with euler on contests. I like it when he beats me and especially that he is nr 1 overall. It's more jokingly

JFB: :-) MSmits - I know, it is only my kind if joke (stupid one). I think that it was too long contest for eulerscheZahl . Any way - thank eulerscheZahl, Illedan and G-rom for the contest!!! (And to CG and all its stuff too - of course - bid thank you!!!)

MSmits: yes thanks guys, good job

Illedan: Was fun. Thx for playing :rocket:

MSmits: as a long contest it was definitely more succesful than locam. Though both individual games have their charm. This one was better for a month

eulerscheZahl: yeah, see you for pacman soon

eulerscheZahl: to finally beat you MSmits :rage:

eulerscheZahl: (just kidding)

MSmits: hehehe

eulerscheZahl: stats are on the forum btw

AntiSquid: giving like for pretty graphics

JFB: When I hear "Pacman" - first I see this scene from Guardian of the Galaxy 2nd :-)

eulerscheZahl: wlesavo holy wall of text :o

wlesavo: lul

Illedan: Nice stats euler

wlesavo: i used to writing papers, you know

AntiSquid: just a few paragraphis, papers are longer no? :P

AntiSquid: but thanks for PM

Nerchio: euler your stats are interesting

wlesavo: eulerscheZahl thx for a stat, really nice one

Nerchio: look at dmg taken by mine 1st and 2nd player

Nerchio: such a clear difference

Illedan: But joli deals more dmg

eulerscheZahl: but at the cost of more surfacing

eulerscheZahl: avoid mine by surface. not sure what is better :P

jolindien: thanks eulerscheZahl, Illedan, G-rom !

jolindien: great game :)

eulerscheZahl: well played jolindien

jolindien: thx !

MSmits: yes well done

MSmits: should I write a long PM on this one?

MSmits: not sure if i did anything special

eulerscheZahl: fun fact: only 2 players in legend didn't crash a single time

Illedan: :D

wlesavo: lol

MSmits: lol

wlesavo: wow, im one of them

Cappefra: is there a way to see how many times I crashed?

cegprakash: just woke up

cegprakash: what did I miss

cegprakash: eulerscheZahl got top 20?

cegprakash: leaderboard link plz


eulerscheZahl: Cappefra only if you download every single one of your games

eulerscheZahl: i just downloaded 45k and feel guilty now

Cappefra: oh ok, thanks not gonna do it haha

wlesavo: eulerscheZahl there is a typo Turns ger game

cegprakash: aw 28th

Astrobytes: wow, pretty close at the top!

cegprakash: yes all legend have very nice score

eulerscheZahl: wlesavo what's wrong?

Astrobytes: Did you get gold eventually cegprakash?

cegprakash: my bot would have may be 1.44 score in legend

cegprakash: Astrobytes no I had a working simu though

wlesavo: eulerscheZahl should not it be per game?

cegprakash: which was 50 ranks lower than my non-simu bot

eulerscheZahl: i'm blind!

AntiSquid: Astrobytes

Astrobytes: cegprakash Nice, improve it in multiplayer?

cegprakash: is it open yet?

AntiSquid: later

AntiSquid: today

Cappefra: @wleslavo no, it means Turns GERMAN game

cegprakash: wow

cegprakash: today means I'll surely do

cegprakash: if they delay I'll forget my progress

eulerscheZahl: will fix it when i upload the final stats with all games played, thanks

cegprakash: 818/2279 for last 3 days participation is not bad I feel

cegprakash: If I had done for a week definitely gold

cegprakash: unleash the geek is renamed to what game

cegprakash: anyone remember?

eulerscheZahl: crystal rush

cegprakash: thanks

cegprakash: i feel UTG easier version of Ocean of Code

cegprakash: UTG needed less enemy tracking

AntiSquid: i agree

Radewoosh: WTF

Radewoosh: How to get to ocean of code's IDE?

cegprakash: Ocean of Code is all about tracking

cegprakash: Radewoosh can't now

AntiSquid: contest is over Radewoosh

Radewoosh: wut


AntiSquid: you can maybe play it later today

Radewoosh: clist says it's still running

AntiSquid: when it turns into multi

RoboStac: nah, it ended 3 hours ago

AntiSquid: wow ... that annoying missinfo

Radewoosh: Mah

AntiSquid: did you have another version you wanted to submit?

Radewoosh: I've left some autistic version

Radewoosh: And wanted to submit some normal one xd

Radewoosh: Or even work more on it

Radewoosh: now

Radewoosh: I've expected these extra 5 hours

AntiSquid: can still participate in the multi

Radewoosh: multi?

struct: It will become a multi

AntiSquid: yes, all contests become multiplayers

struct: So you can play it longer

AntiSquid: so you can play it forever, until the end of time

Radewoosh: What will be the difference?

Radewoosh: Between then and now

MSmits: no time limit

Radewoosh: What has ended actually?

RoboStac: chance for prizes

MSmits: the contest with prizes

cegprakash: anyone wants to see my Silver code?

AntiSquid: not much, all bots will automatically be submitted to multi

AntiSquid: no

Radewoosh: Meh, losing a chance for prizes also hurts

MSmits: cegprakash dont share code

MSmits: unless its a small piece

cegprakash: in PM I mean

cegprakash: I need improvement

cegprakash: help

cegprakash: or wait

MSmits: if you think you did something worth sharing in PM, you should do it

AntiSquid: i think it would be frowned upon, but most people won't care since it's silver

cegprakash: I can look at the postmortem

MSmits: no need to paste code in a PM though

MSmits: the ideas are worth more and it is more fun to translate an idea into code than to copy someone elses code

cegprakash: only 10 post mortems so far?

cegprakash: I'll write one

MSmits: there will be more

cegprakash: my wood postmortem is amazing

AntiSquid: i only see 3 post morterms and one really cool animation

AntiSquid: how do you count 10 ?

cegprakash: total comments

_Royale: just saw your PM eulerscheZahl, I like the gameplay statistics

MSmits: can someone link the PM thread again

eulerscheZahl: thanks _Royale helped tuning my bot a bit (more surface, less mine damage)


MSmits: thanks

AntiSquid: 10 £ MSmits

dbdr: wlesavo, grats on top 20!

struct: grats pb

wlesavo: dbdr thx, grats on top 10 :slight_smile:

dbdr: thanks

dbdr: even 1 digit :)

wlesavo: hehe

metahom: could somebody PM me when multi is open please. want to check one thing

jolindien: you will receive a mail from CG

metahom: oh, thanks

MSmits: this is gonna be a huge PM :(

MSmits: so much typing

eulerscheZahl: do it like me: generate your PM with code

wlesavo: MSmits longer then the actual code? :slight_smile:

MSmits: yeah your pm is great :)

MSmits: wlesavo maybe as many characters :0

MSmits: hey eulerscheZahl, your stats say my mine avoidance was very good!

eulerscheZahl: give me a second to update with all the games

eulerscheZahl: takes a minute to generate with so many matches

Default avatar.png sharkdog: Is there any way draw/paint on the screen?

AntiSquid: another multi!!!!

MSmits: tulips and daisies?

AntiSquid: oh nvm

AntiSquid: mistook rock paper scissors for a multi

AntiSquid: wonder why we don't have the old RPS game anymore

cegprakash: eulerscheZahl ur animation shows probabilities.. I only have 1 or 0

cegprakash: what are these probabilities

eulerscheZahl: different paths cause different mine placements

MSmits: this is also a major problem with pruning

cegprakash: these are mine probabilities?

eulerscheZahl: as my opponent tracking gets more accurate, these numbers are changing

cegprakash: I only track enemy movements not mines

cegprakash: do I get probabilities as well

eulerscheZahl: each path has a list of cells with mine drops

cegprakash: for now all I have is 0 or 1

Re9iNee: guys im still working on ocean of code though its finished, will it be available later?

eulerscheZahl: exclude paths => exclude mine locations

AntiSquid: why did you join so late cegprakash?

eulerscheZahl: later today Re9iNee

cegprakash: was playing Age of empires AntiSquid

Re9iNee: @eulerscheZahl ok thanks :X

cegprakash: I didn't get motivation until I got my friend into this the last 3 days

AntiSquid: then you maybe had more fun than me

cegprakash: he tells strat and I code thigns

cegprakash: he doesn't know to code

cegprakash: he plays games though

cegprakash: he might learn coding as I go him into this

cegprakash: he's a manager now at Paypal

kovi: gratz for top3!

Default avatar.png WINWINWIN: Congrats to top20 for their consistent performances

Default avatar.png WINWINWIN: esp PB4

Uljahn: eulerscheZahl: what does "Spawn from center" mean on your stats page?

eulerscheZahl: if you always spawn on (7,7), the value will be 0

eulerscheZahl: if you spawn in the corner, it's sqrt(7^2+7^2)

Uljahn: so it's euclidean distance?

Uljahn: thx

eulerscheZahl: yes, pythagorean

eulerscheZahl: no manhattan

MSmits: ahh turns out the PM is not that huge.

MSmits: has a lot of information I think people can use if they come to this multi later or want to improve

darkhorse64: When I read what the tops post in the chat, I feel very humble despite (barely) making it in the top 50. There is an ocean between me and them :smile:

MSmits: what kind of things do you mean?

darkhorse64: the way they choose moves

MSmits: how did you choose moves?

wlesavo: MSmits nice PM covers most of basics in a good details

MSmits: yeah I was in doubt whether to post since there are 24 players above me, but I tend to write PM's that have more basics like that to help lower players, wheras most top players will just share their unique tricks

darkhorse64: Can I do damage, make the most damage to him and least to me combining move and silence otherwose move to maximise space and minimize detections and avoid ines

MSmits: but thats pretty advanced?

MSmits: i guess the details matter

darkhorse64: One thing I never solved is how to avoid retaliation

MSmits: me neither

MSmits: thats a top 10 thing

MSmits: it's just difficult to make a bot work with so many moving parts

MSmits: blasterpoard described it well last night

darkhorse64: I also realized the last day that my shooting was not optimal (no kill moves)

MSmits: you mean no fatality check?

darkhorse64: Yes

MSmits: ahh ok, yeah that is a thing that helped me get out of gold

MSmits: that and self tracking

MSmits: I liked it a lot, because there is no doubt in writing that. Only one way to do it right

MSmits: as opposed to the rest of the bot logic

wlesavo: yeah, also liked a blasterpoard's insight, waiting for PM from him

darkhorse64: I tried to do it yesterday but my brain did not comply. My self tracking is OK. I ran it against the top guys

wlesavo: MSmits also it cant harm the bot, opposed to parameter tuning and stuff like that

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: my fatality code is 300 lines btw, so no small thing

MSmits: took me a few hours

MSmits: void FatalityRecursive(vector<Order>& orders, uint64_t damage[], int myHealth, bool surfaced, bool moved, bool silenced, bool triggered, bool torpedoed, int x, int y, uint16_t blocked[], bool charged)

MSmits: recursively try all moves

wlesavo: lol

MSmits: I keep a damage map as i go down and I only succeed if all possible opponent locations have equal or higher damage than the opponent lift

MSmits: life

iFightLegends: They should make the leaderboard filters combinable - like all C++ in Country X, every time I select a different filter, the old one resets...Or is this a browser specific thing?

MSmits: nah i think it does reset

Nerchio: Msmits I assume the opponent can start on any cell, meaning I start with 225 possible states for tracking.

Nerchio: you dont exclude islands? ;d

iFightLegends: :frowning2:

MSmits: no I do lol

darkhorse64: My usual game has been, shoot the cloud, inflict one damage, get two, and end the game with one life for the opponent and my torpedo about to inflict the fatal blow

MSmits: yep, a lot of games were like that fo rme as well

MSmits: i lose torpedo shootouts

MSmits: the assumption of 0-silence might have helped me here

darkhorse64: I'll read the PMs later but that's the problem I have been unable to solve

MSmits: because then you can one-shot them for 2 damage

wlesavo: darkhorse64 this is why i tried to make my matches longer, not very succesfully though judging by eulers stats

darkhorse64: My last try has been 1 silence for me but it fails

MSmits: you mean move 1 ?

darkhorse64: Yes treat silence as a move (quick and dirty hack)

MSmits: I meant what wlesavo explained. Most players will 0-silence, which means you play the game and try to determine whether that is the case for the current game. Then if it is the case, you filter all states that dont comply

MSmits: then you just do 2 dmg per shot

MSmits: because you know exactly where they are

MSmits: i wish I had thought of that

MSmits: it's so easy to code

MSmits: just make a boolean per state for non-zero silences

darkhorse64: Pb4 had 2 trackers, one with assumptions, one without

MSmits: right

MSmits: none of that is hard to code, it just makes your code more of a mess

wlesavo: i basically have weigths, and when i didnt need them just counted a possitions

pb4: MSmits : this is where I'm glad I used C++

darkhorse64: In this respect, one month time allowed me to keep my code clean

MSmits: well not to avoid a mess surely.... I guess for performance reasons

pb4: It was a mess, but if you allow copies everywhere it's still manageable to read your code

pb4: I traded some readability for performance

pb4: (more readable, less perf)

MSmits: ah ok

darkhorse64: like bitboards ?

pb4: I'm speaking about the tracker here

pb4: bitboards are unreadable, but they're wrapped in neat functions so it doesn't matter

Default avatar.png lxnn: I was wondering, did anyone try to use a histogram filter for tracking in ooc. I was going to try it but didn't have time. I had a hard time getting the tracking algorithm I used to work well enough.

darkhorse64: My tracker is based on unordered_set

pb4: bitBoard.expandPlus(), expandSquare(), etc...

jacek: happy 420 day

MSmits: i used unordered map to prune states, but other than that it's a big object pool of State objects

MSmits: (prune for chain-silence)

MSmits: hi jacek

MSmits: lxnn I am not sure what a histogram filter is

Default avatar.png lxnn: So, for each possible position of the opponent, you keep track of the probability that they are at that position (just a matrix of numbers between 0 and 1)

MSmits: I do that yes

MSmits: float[225]

Default avatar.png lxnn: When the opponent makes a movement, you update the probabilities by shifting them over

MSmits: no

MSmits: i recalculate probabilities completely anew every turn

MSmits: i keep possible states for the opponent and update those every turn

Default avatar.png lxnn: when they use silence, you model their movement as a uniformly random choice and update the probabilities accordingly

MSmits: nope

MSmits: basically it's like this

MSmits: you start with about 200 possible states

Default avatar.png lxnn: Then for any other information you multiply in a likelihood function

Default avatar.png lxnn: Sorry, can't type fast enough!

MSmits: hehe

MSmits: it's not what I did I mean

MSmits: I understand what you mean now by histogram

MSmits: it's not the way to go though

MSmits: you need to keep the full state

MSmits: not just the probabilities

MSmits: there is way more information in the states

MSmits: like, where has the sub been, from where did he lay mines?

MSmits: just a single probability wont cut it

Default avatar.png lxnn: Yeah, I realised mine tracking wouldn't work as the size of the probability space would be enormous

Nerchio: This is why I wish i started with a Point object would enable me to store much more information about single point in a nice manner

Nerchio: instead i had like 10 arrays [15][15] xD


MSmits: basically an opponent state means a single current position (x,y)

MSmits: all the places he has visited in a bitboard

MSmits: and all the places he laid mines from

MSmits: also in a sort of bitboard, but 4 bits per cell

Nerchio: makes sense

Nerchio: i did some string manipulation and a hashmap xD

Default avatar.png lxnn: Cool

MSmits: it's amazing you did that well with that, other parts of your bot must be really good Nerchio

Nerchio: no its bad i think

Nerchio: but the mine tracking was

Default avatar.png lxnn: Would have tried something like that but I think a bit board in Python would be complicated

MSmits: very

Nerchio: mines

Default avatar.png lxnn: and probably not efficient enough

Default avatar.png lxnn: How large did the number of possible states grow during a match?

MSmits: bitboard in python:


MSmits: might not run in some browsers

Nerchio: oooh

Nerchio: Msmits

Nerchio: i just understood your probability mine map

Nerchio: i just had a list of mines from all states and tried to avoid it

Default avatar.png lxnn: ah thanks MSmits, I'll have a look

Nerchio: but obviously it got big really quick

Nerchio: instead i could've done it like you and get % of mine in spot XY

MSmits: oh, i dont avoid low probability cells, if there is just 1 state where a mine was laid somewhere and 10k where it wasnt, i am not afraid of that cell

Nerchio: true

Nerchio: thats good

Nerchio: its funny

Nerchio: stages you go through in a challenge

Nerchio: at certain points you think you have a lot

Nerchio: but then you realise how much you can still do

Default avatar.png lxnn: With the state tracking, did you keep count of the number of each state, or just keep a set of states?

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: hmm

MSmits: each state should be unique, but some rare cases there could be identical ones

MSmits: I don't check for equal states every turn, that would be super expensive

MSmits: in a regular game with not too many silences, i would have maybe 1k states at a time

MSmits: with crazy silencing that can be 40k or so

Default avatar.png lxnn: I'm thinking that techinically, the proabilities aren't accurate if there are uncounted duplicates, but with the mine tracking the states are probaly sparse enough that this isn't a problem

Nagatwin: MSmits actually its not that expensive and quite useful against silence spammers

MSmits: even with mines?

MSmits: i am assuming silence + mines

MSmits: chain silence with no mines doesnt really happen

accorp: saw a bot that doesn't do anything else ut silence...

MSmits: not in legend I think

MSmits: dont think you can promote to legend witha silence-bot

accorp: of course not, that would be embarassing :)

MSmits: heh right

Nagatwin: MSmits 2 silence back to back is common and may compensate

Nagatwin: Against kovi I could achieve 70% less paths than he had on his silence spamming version

Nerchio: so Msmits how do you organize a scoring mechanism i guess this is somehow a way to avoid if-nightmare

Nagatwin: and performance-wise, its all about using a set or a sorted array

MSmits: ah ok Nagatwin, I could have been a bit more creative in that regard I guess. I did use sets/maps for prunign when the states got outof hand

Default avatar.png lxnn: I wish I'd started on OOC sooner, it was actually quite an interesting game, being deterministic but partially-observable

MSmits: Nerchio I had separate scores

MSmits: torpedo score, trigger score. The beamsearch scoring was messy

MSmits: the decisions were mostly not interdependent either, so it did not get too complicated. But this part was the weak part of my bot so...

Nerchio: kk :D

Nerchio: interesting post by wala, at least for me about Java

Default avatar.png lxnn: If you're interested, there's a section of Rusell and Norvig where they talk about Kriegspiel, which is partially-observable chess.

Nerchio: he did it similar to me so instead of an object he went with a lot of arrays

wala: thanks

MSmits: lxnn someone mentioned that before i think

Nerchio: because objects with java suck apparently?

MSmits: sounds interestiing

Default avatar.png lxnn: Ah right

MSmits: Nerchio did you use an object pool?

Nerchio: opponent states were objects

Nerchio: but everything else was not

MSmits: what i mean is

MSmits: did you create all required objects in the first 1s of the game

Nerchio: no they were created during silence mostly

MSmits: thats what I do

MSmits: thats not good, because you need garbage collection then

Nerchio: so its better to create objects in first turn and then just copy data to them u think?

MSmits: try to avoid garbage collection by creating a massive array of objects and when you need a new object just index them in your massive array

MSmits: then they dont need to be created or cleaned up

Nerchio: sounds like another layer of complication :p

MSmits: all my bots do this. In uttt I have 700 mb of treenodes

MSmits: the memory is filled before turn 1 :)

MSmits: well no

MSmits: it is reserved

Nagatwin: MSmits if you don't wanna be creative you can do : for (i = 0; i<n; i++)for (j = 0; j<n; j++) if (states[i] == states[j]){ // remove states[j] }

MSmits: uninitialized

darren4494: hello world, which game are you discussing about?

MSmits: Nagatwin that seemed expensive to me

MSmits: contest that just ended darren4494

Nagatwin: MSmits this is n^2

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: sometimes you coul dhave 40k states :)

Nagatwin: sorting + erasing or hashmap is nlogn

MSmits: right

Nerchio: aren't duplicate states somehow useful?

Nagatwin: MSmits I never reach 40k with such pruning

Nerchio: it means he is more likely to be in that positions isnt it

MSmits: I did on full chain-silence Nagatwin

MSmits: with no mines

Nagatwin: MSmits on full chain silence, that's what generates most dupes

MSmits: Nerchio yeah... thats true, but it's a grey area

MSmits: Nagatwin you're completely right.... the silly thing is, I did think of it, but dismissed it before trying,because most of my experience with transpositions is that it doesnt do much. It's different here apparently

Nagatwin: Nerchio depends. The likelihood is more probably caused by the paths themselves (going into mines, etc..) rather than the amount of paths that goes to a given point

Nagatwin: MSmits yeah agreed

MSmits: also Nerchio, if you really wanted to, you could add a state-counter to a state and count duplicates when you remove them

darren4494: Just curious, How much time did you spend on the contest, anyone?

Nerchio: i probably like 80 hours if i had to guess :P

MSmits: 1 week spread out over the month

MSmits: 50-60 hrs if i dont count time spent chatting

darren4494: ohhhhhh

Nagatwin: yeah same, too much haha

cegprakash: i forgot to add fatality in my eval

cegprakash: if enemylife = 0 score = INF that's all I had to do

cegprakash: :(

cegprakash: or score += INF/2

Default avatar.png lxnn: Nerchio, I think you're right about duplicate states, but I think that once include mine location and the path history in the state, duplicates would be rare enough not to distort the model significantly

MSmits: its not about distortion I guess. It's about not getting overwhelmed in terms of calculation time required

Default avatar.png lxnn: Although I don't have code available to test this notion hypothesis

Default avatar.png lxnn: *hypothesis

wlesavo: last chance to beat pb4 before he updated his code on contrib page

MSmits: lol

MSmits: hey, i found the trick to beating pb 4 last night, you just follow him until he goes into a corner and then seal him off with mines

MSmits: works 1% of the time.... guaranteed

Scarfield: 60% of the time, it works every time

MSmits: yeah :)

wlesavo: easiest top 1 of my life

MSmits: gj

wlesavo: where is your top 1 now pb4

eulerscheZahl: top10 \o/

wlesavo: solid lead by 5 points

wlesavo: eulerscheZahl still #2 in C# though :wink:

Nerchio: i need to learn more alghorithms haha

Nerchio: dont know whats minmax or beamsearch

MSmits: beamsearch is easy to understand. You just take a bunch of states, then make new states from them by applying moves. If you have more than a certain amount (the BeamWidth) then you sort by score and only keep the best x = beamwidth number of states

MSmits: that way you can get very deep

Nerchio: ok sounds simple

MSmits: minimax is also not very hard. You can find much info about it

Nerchio: and a sim that some people were talking about is a simulation of the future yeah?

Nerchio: xD

MSmits: ab pruning is a bit harder to grasp, but only a few lines extra code

Scarfield: MiniMax is basicly looking through possible choices/actions, simulate them to some depth, eval resulting state, choose current action to minimize opponents maximum score

MSmits: sim is a simulation of the future yes

MSmits: a simulation can be partial (a part of the game) or full (the full game referee)

Nerchio: so minimax and beamsearch sounds like a sim then

MSmits: they use simulations yes

MSmits: the difference is in which states to keep or which states to consider best

MSmits: also minimax is adversarial

MSmits: you do a move, opponent does a move

MSmits: beamsearch is mostly just you

Nerchio: i can probably evaluate future with if statements as well :D

MSmits: in many games that won't be enough

MSmits: especially simple board games

Nerchio: yeah this is the first one i played so i need different environment to go out of this 'comfort' zone

Nerchio: i mean different challenges

MSmits: yeah, just do the simples possible game to simulate and practice searches

MSmits: its fun

Nagatwin: wlesavo which multi is this ?

MSmits: ooc contribution

MSmits: some old bots in there

MSmits: wlesavo is enjoying beating the crap out of them

Nagatwin: xan't find haha

MSmits: it was linked in the pm thread

Nagatwin: oh thx

cegprakash: hey eulerscheZahl

cegprakash: There could have been a wood3 league with 3 lives with only MOVE and SURFACE commands.

cegprakash: can u add this league in the multi?

MSmits: thats not going to happen I think

MSmits: current bots will be automatically submitted

Scarfield: Nerchio i can recommend Bandas or Breakthrough, they are fairly easy to simulate, and you can use bitboards fairly easily as well :)

MSmits: if you're going to make changes they would all be broken

MSmits: Scarfield is right, they are great games to try for this

Magus: Nerchio was the name of a Starcraft 2 PGM i liked. But i assume you are not that Nerchio :D

cegprakash: but I felt wood2 was hard in this contest

Nerchio: ;)

cegprakash: taking too much time

MSmits: yes the woods were hard\

cegprakash: Awood3 league with 3 lives with only MOVE and SURFACE commands could have made it easier

cegprakash: with boss using just SURFACE often

cegprakash: to kill himself

MSmits: yep, it's really a good idea cegprakash

MSmits: but too late :(

struct: Magus he is

Magus: Prove it !

Scarfield: for MiniMax this video explains it really well

Nerchio: i will watch thanks!

Scarfield: np :)

struct: Magus I could have taken a screenshot but I didnt

Scarfield: will look forward to you beating me with other algorithms xD

struct: but he typed on thibpat chat on twitch

struct: with Nerchio account

Nerchio: if anything i can beat you with time spend on programming lol

struct: So I guess there is that

Nerchio: not sure if algos would be enough Scarfield xd

Magus: i doubt you can beat me at time spend on programming :o

Nerchio: i mean during a challenge

Magus: Oh, probably

Nerchio: for this i spend probably 80 hours writing if statements

Magus: But if you really are Nerchio, it's kind of fun encoutering you here ... :D

MSmits: Nerchio if you really like contests with lots of heuristics, please try code a la mode. No search required

MSmits: people used hundreds of ifs

Nerchio: idk I think i will try to learn something new maybe

struct: Yavalath

MSmits: i used a beamsearch, but most above me did not search at all

Nerchio: i went through a list looks like a lot of fun multis so have stuff to do

MSmits: yeah, probably better to learn searches

MSmits: I only did half of them myself

struct: Yavalath will probably make you learn some new stuff

struct: MSmits needs a challenge tehre

Astrobytes: struct you're such a Yavangelist

MSmits: dont do yavalath Nerchio... thats a more expert version of those boardgames I talked about. Complex sim and not easy to write a search either

MSmits: but sure, I welcome more players on that board :)

Nerchio: haha

Nerchio: leader!

Nerchio: master of beamsearch?

MSmits: no this is not beamsearch

MSmits: on yavalath i do mcts

MSmits: but not a basic version, very heavily modified

MSmits: uttt is the most popular board game

MSmits: if you want to have an easy simulated game

MSmits: it starts with regular tic tac toe up to bronze

eulerscheZahl: but UTTT is hard to follow as a human

eulerscheZahl: you don't see if you are winning or losing until the game is over

MSmits: yeah, i only recently felt I started getting the hang of some easy heuristics a human can use

Nerchio: idk i dont like tic tac toe i will stick to some other stuff :D

ThomasNicoullaud: thx eulerscheZahl, your stats just showed me that i forgot to add SILENCE 0 in my playlist -_-

Illedan: :D

eulerscheZahl: :D

Nerchio: but yea YAVALATH doesnt look like it would be easy to beat with if statements :p

ThomasNicoullaud: there is a realy big impact SILENCE 0 ?

wlesavo: its only big if your estimation of silence is bad

Nerchio: 95,9% of 0 silence by me

wlesavo: at least i think so

Nerchio: shame on me :(

ThomasNicoullaud: i track it, but not play it in my minmax

MSmits: ahh I am happy, 82% silence 0. Seems like I succeeded throwing some other silences in there at the last moment :)

MSmits: coded it at 2 am last night

pde-bakk: who is w7

wlesavo: seing how many people using more advanced stuff then simple heuristics i am surprised by making yop20

MSmits: I am most surprised by you doing it in python

MSmits: there's some calculation heavy stuff in this game

MSmits: thats probably the stuff you had to leave out

eulerscheZahl: in other games you wouldn't stand a chance without a proper search sometimes it's hard to tell before, if a search is mandatory

eulerscheZahl: but here there are lots of uncertainties (fog of war) that make it hard to search

Nerchio: i would consider myself getting to legend with brute force

ThomasNicoullaud: wlesavo, lot of people hate you in top gold :D

Nerchio: got some small stuff right, got a lot of stuff wrong :p

MSmits: lol ThomasNicoullaud

wlesavo: i do most of calculations with a treshold, i.e. if there are less candidates, or mines, or whatever needed

eulerscheZahl: people from FR chat?

MSmits: I have myself considered a few times writing some disparaging comments when wlesavo, during my fight to pass gold boss :P

MSmits: when wlesavo was on :P

wlesavo: oh, i forgot to appologize for the random boss in PM

MSmits: ah that isnt even what bothered me. Just that it was damn strong

darkhorse64: tbh, I never beat wlesavo bot. I was pushed

MSmits: but it is supposed to be

eulerscheZahl: i was pushed too

MSmits: oh, I had a 58% winrate vs it, but I did poorly against other players

ThomasNicoullaud: when i'm entering legend, have only 30/70 on gold boss :s shame on me

MSmits: so i had to chain-spam submits

wlesavo: well it was top 10 at a time with suboptimal parameters

ThomasNicoullaud: this boss was insane

eulerscheZahl: i had a winrate around 80% vs the boss, still pushed

MSmits: nice

MSmits: you didnt spam enough then euler

eulerscheZahl: i didn't have to

eulerscheZahl: submit ended, then i waited 5min

MSmits: ah, then it was just a very strong submit

eulerscheZahl: i don't know

Illedan: I came along and wrecked the boss :P

MSmits: hey... i figured you got into legend from the start btw

MSmits: didnt know you were left behind

eulerscheZahl: not as hard as i did Illedan

eulerscheZahl: promoted about 2h after legend opening

MSmits: ah ok. For me it was 1 week :)

wlesavo: dbdr also was left behind i believe

eulerscheZahl: and then you bypassed me

ThomasNicoullaud: for me it was REALY one week

MSmits: not significantly, but yeah, seems you were right once again

ThomasNicoullaud: depressing

MSmits: but you made it

MSmits: could be much worse

ThomasNicoullaud: MSmits you stated late ?

MSmits: no, i took several long breaks

MSmits: two breaks of at least a week long

VincentBab: #22, so sad :( but that contest was no nice :) thanks to the authors !

ThomasNicoullaud: :thumbsup:

eulerscheZahl: you have another chance very soon

MSmits: yeah!

Scarfield: yea big thanks :)

Skril: Yes, thanks for this very entertaining contest :-) and gg to all

Illedan: gg :)

Illedan: VincentBab, you can try more: And later today as a real multi again

eulerscheZahl: or try another game if you played OOC too much recently

wlesavo: hehe still first after illedan updated his bot

Illedan: Ok, I'll submit something better than your thingy ^^

eulerscheZahl: that's an area to test the game, not the bots. there aren't enough battles to tell anything

wlesavo: it ok, i already made my screenshoots

eulerscheZahl: and you shared it on the forum

eulerscheZahl: as an imgur link instead of as an image directly

Illedan: :D

AntiSquid: when does it go live?

eulerscheZahl: today

AntiSquid: ya time @_@

VincentBab: Haha nice Illedan, I surely will But i'm a bit disapointed for the t-shirt :P

eulerscheZahl: when Saiksy is ready

Illedan: Soon a new contest ;)

AntiSquid: Automaton2000's body is ready

Automaton2000: yeah i do the same.

wlesavo: AntiSquid are you gonna try it today?

AntiSquid: try what?

wlesavo: multi

AntiSquid: ah ooc no

cegprakash: eulerscheZahl Illedan the best thing I liked about this contest is that there is actually no real meta

cegprakash: very balanced game I felt

cegprakash: lot of strat to counter lot of strats

cegprakash: no skills are OP

eulerscheZahl: meta = be passive and hide your location

wlesavo: true

cegprakash: not really

wlesavo: early battles were quite random

cegprakash: mining is not passive

ZarthaxX: hello

cegprakash: u did mining

struct: ofc mining is passive

cegprakash: if mining is passive, my entire bot is passive

struct: trigger is noit

struct: not{

eulerscheZahl: but you can add a few silence actions after your mine placement to make it more passive

cegprakash: well if u mine ofc u will write trigger code

cegprakash: that's not passive

eulerscheZahl: not really passive. but less revealing regarding your own position

wlesavo: less forcing a direct fight

cegprakash: well that's because it's a turn based game

eulerscheZahl: attack the opponent without risking a blue eye

cegprakash: whoever gets closer can git hit first

cegprakash: and that's bad

cegprakash: there is nearly no comeback from that

iFightLegends: In the leaderboard what does the number in the "Score"-column mean?

eulerscheZahl: it shows your score

eulerscheZahl: mu-sigma i think

cegprakash: it's like your win rate points iFightLegends

iFightLegends: Oh I just see when I hove over it, it says True Skill system, guess I gotta google that then

wlesavo: cegprakash i often lose having a health advantage against top players

cegprakash: finisher blow? wlesavo?

wlesavo: not really, bad fighting

cegprakash: yeah need combos for sure

wlesavo: especially at the time i had bad charging oreder

wlesavo: order

wlesavo: i.e. move carging smth, then torpedoing

wlesavo: after i fixed that it was better but still

wlesavo: eulerscheZahl is it possible to estimate for what period of time stats were collected?

eulerscheZahl: you mean my huge table?

wlesavo: i mean last one with 42k replays

ZarthaxX: gz wlesavo

eulerscheZahl: i started at 10am today the stats shown are only the most recent arena version

eulerscheZahl: some opponents are outdated version though

eulerscheZahl: so full final rerun + last battles from submit to reach the finals

wlesavo: ZarthaxX thx :slight_smile:

eulerscheZahl: if i find multiple version of your bot (last battles of your opponents), i only show the most recent

wlesavo: eulerscheZahl so it does include final rerun?

eulerscheZahl: of course

eulerscheZahl: it's a mess but it's your mess now:


eulerscheZahl: i would share the replays too but 4.9GB is quite a lot

wlesavo: wow, thx

ThomasNicoullaud: eulerscheZahl have you a developer team with you for do challenge, Visual board App and, statistics App ? Do you sleep 1h by night ? What is your secret ? :D

eulerscheZahl: the replay animation was quite simple actually. i usually do that for a contest


eulerscheZahl: just about 40 lines

eulerscheZahl: the stats took a little longer (had to look up how charts work, not part of my daily coding job)

eulerscheZahl: but for a 1 month contest one can invest some time in tools

Zenoscave: 3rd in my language!

Zenoscave: I'm counting this a success

ThomasNicoullaud: :thumbsup: eulerscheZahl

eulerscheZahl: i might even write something about tooling as i good setup can help a lot (local debugging)

eulerscheZahl: congrats Zenoscave and thanks for letting me keep 2nd at least

Zenoscave: :+1:

Zenoscave: I had no chance. I lost too many in the mine field and combat

wlesavo: that would be really interesting to read

ThomasNicoullaud: +1

eulerscheZahl: on we can define our own docker containers. so i consider some python with requests lib to pull data (not sure if we get internet access, would have to try)

Zenoscave: if you make a docker container on can we pull the container or is it private ?

eulerscheZahl: i could include the docker container (i would just take an existing one) to use some libraries

Zenoscave: ah ok

eulerscheZahl: like requests which isn't available in the default python version of

Zenoscave: right

eulerscheZahl: so i think about sharing some code snippets that you can modify on the website for testing

Zenoscave: Did anyone get CP from this contest? I'm at 0/10000 right now

eulerscheZahl: update once a day

eulerscheZahl: not sure if this night already or later

Zenoscave: ah I forgot

ZarthaxX: recalc started with our current position right?

eulerscheZahl: yes

blasterpoard: 1500 word PM is up

eulerscheZahl: i'll give it a like first and read it later then

ZarthaxX: great blasterpoard

eulerscheZahl: thanks for the effort, i'll read it for sure

blasterpoard: some people pinged me saying they wanted to read it, so enjoy

Uljahn: thx


cegprakash: my post mortem

cegprakash: the most awaited by everyone

eulerscheZahl: thanks humble cegprakash

cegprakash: eulerscheZahl I need to start using animations to get more hearts

eulerscheZahl: and tables with charts

cegprakash: how to make animations like you made

cegprakash: you build a tool and record video and convert to gif?

eulerscheZahl: i do that for most of my contest bots but don't always share it

eulerscheZahl: i generate a .png for each single frame

eulerscheZahl: then i use imagemagick: convert *.png replay.gif

eulerscheZahl: from the command line

cegprakash: oh

cegprakash: nice

wlesavo: blasterpoard thx

wlesavo: blasterpoard some things looks like a total overkill but im facinated by this. Is offensive mine planting a heuristic or the result of fighting simulation in some way?

blasterpoard: wlesavo

blasterpoard: this is offensive mine planting

wlesavo: no i remember you sharing the replays of it

blasterpoard: simulation

blasterpoard: "simulation"

wlesavo: wow

wlesavo: nice

blasterpoard: depth 1

blasterpoard: or 2,if you count my turn and opponent's turn as 2 turns

wlesavo: but is it a specific simulation for this case or included in major one?

blasterpoard: it's just keeping the mine when I think I'll encounter the enemy within 3 turns

blasterpoard: and using it when I'm close

blasterpoard: and then taking it into account in eval

wlesavo: i see

blasterpoard: didn't really work (I think), because at the beginning of the fight, opponent just silenced anyway

blasterpoard: but it might be a good way to punish using silence excessively

blasterpoard: just combo the opponent in 3 turns when he finally runs out of squares

Default avatar.png wolf-555: can search users here by uni?

Default avatar.png wolf-555: can i*

icecream17: All my ooc contest code history is lost! How do I get my wood code back?

MSmits: do we get submitted to wood?

icecream17: no, i'm just doing the multi demo for now

MSmits: ah

icecream17: Oh, in the demo you can go forward leagues? Wow'

MSmits: I'm just wondering, because in earlier contests we had to keep our wood code, or turn off parts of our bronze + code to get through wood

MSmits: (when it was submitted as a multi)

icecream17: I better prepare.... hopefully i'll be one of the first to get to bronze

MSmits: doesnt matter really, if you're the first. Also your code gets submitted automaticall

icecream17: Really? Oh.

MSmits: I just am not sure if they make us go up through wood, or if we just appear in the league that we reached during contest

darkhorse64: you just appear

darkhorse64: but no xp

MSmits: aww

MSmits: I'll take the cp :)

darkhorse64: Another leap in thee leaderboard

MSmits: yeah

icecream17: Hey, look!

wlesavo: wow

icecream17: what? how? (...)

wlesavo: smth went wrong

icecream17: I got it from searching ocean of code, but I guess deleted now... (super fast)

ZarthaxX: wait so darkhorse64 that way if you didnt do contest u get the same xp for getting to legend as the ones that did the contest?

ZarthaxX: no disadvantage of xp

wlesavo: oh, its working in ide

aCat: whoh ;]

aCat: so multi is on the way ;-)

darkhorse64: You are absolutely right and I think it's fairere this way

darkhorse64: *fairer*

icecream17: Hmm... what happens if I submit? It says "no battles" so i'm assuming the leaderboard is more variable than ever.

aCat: damn, I really was wishing for the double xp :(

aCat: but it's fairer definitely

darkhorse64: My point is that it used to be different

icecream17: Maybe I can come up with an easter egg. If a user finds it, they get xp. If they tell anyone, they lose 10x the xp.

Nerchio: oh its up already? :D

icecream17: jmRMkpqm0hwFAZKVdOnhYhrA1wMZKwTptmwk7YKIInA=

icecream17: (random encrpyter online)

icecream17: I don't have any ideas yet.... maybe something to do with....

aCat: but I like this part of not thinking what to cut to make code feasible for wood leagues ;p

icecream17: =O I got an amazing idea! Too bad I don't know how to do it...

icecream17: How much XP should the user earn for the easter egg? 1? 1000?

icecream17: I pressed submit in the ide. But i'm only playing against the boss

icecream17: Oh no! I lost 3 times in a row and i'm now 429th

icecream17: Oh nevermind. The first one was a tie.

icecream17: First 10 games is 1 tie and 4 wins against the boss.

icecream17: Oops. I forgot it was Monday. I have to do at-home-learning

icecream17: 5th place! If I can beat the boss before anyone else submits....

icecream17: (unlikely)

metahom: thats an odd submit

metahom: i play only Nerchio

icecream17: Nice.

Nerchio: i submited as well before

Nerchio: i guess thats how it works xd

icecream17: which league?

metahom: like one of us pays other to make dummy submit and gets #1 ))

Nerchio: it looks like i got XP as well weird

icecream17: If someone submits, I hope that person loses against me a lot but wins against the boss a lot.

icecream17: The boss always silence 0. So maybe.....

Nerchio: wanted to try playing ghost in a cell but the window that shows the game is bugged meh :p

ZarthaxX: u got xp? wot

Nerchio: im not sure if i did because i dont know how much i had before

Nerchio: but it spammed achievements for me with xp

icecream17: I'm playing against random people now! What happenned?

Astrobytes: has OOC reappeared in the multi section?

Nerchio: y

ZarthaxX: weird..

wlesavo: Nerchio it is probably different contest related achievments

metahom: Nerchio, I resubmitted and its working well

icecream17: Wow. I win against the top ten? That's surprising. I always lose against bottom 100.

Nerchio: idk in chrome its bugged out

Nerchio: maybe another reason to use firefox

Nerchio: it works well there :)

metahom: I use chrome too

wlesavo: Astrobytes weirdly enough only in the ide

Nerchio: game window resizes for me and i see only a corner of the map :p

Nerchio: btw

Astrobytes: wlesavo that'll be the reason the submissions are weird I guess

Nerchio: you can't change class name right?

Nerchio: it will always look for Player -> main

wlesavo: Astrobytes for sure, submits on your own risk i guess

Astrobytes: I think I'll wait

MSmits: whats going on guys


Astrobytes: I mean, you can't even access the full leaderboard

MSmits: I think they improved it

Astrobytes: MSmits OOC appeared in the multi section, then disappeared, yet still available via that link

MSmits: because

MSmits: I'm 24 now :)

Astrobytes: Hence I don't believe it's officially live yet

wlesavo: yeah, but i got pushed to

MSmits: nerchio pushing

wlesavo: still funny

MSmits: and duke nukem

MSmits: and polar bear

wlesavo: having the history of submits is great though

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: not so much if you discover a bug in it

MSmits: That's one reason I dont go back to old contests

Astrobytes: from discord:

wlesavo: auto manual transfer lol

vbplaya: Can someone answer something for me? In the attached replay, I noticed that "lordgun" has some status messages that appear under his picture. Is this something he programmed in and if so, how do I do that (for future contests)?

Nerchio: add MSG

Nerchio: to your bot

Astrobytes: vbplaya it's the MSG command

Nerchio: its for this contest specific ;P

vbplaya: ok ... so maybe cant' do for the one coming up soon.

wlesavo: some other have that too

Nerchio: move W torpedo | MSG You ded

vbplaya: OH, thanks Nerchio.

Nerchio: we dont know if we will be able to do this in next contest yet

vbplaya: This was my first contest, and I really enjoyed it. Gonna do this one coming up too.

vbplaya: Are you one of the designers of these contests Nerchio?

Nerchio: haha

Nerchio: absolutely not

Nerchio: this was also my first challenge

vbplaya: Ok, sorry, from your response I thought you might be

Nerchio: yea i mean

Nerchio: we as 'players' dont know if msg-style action will be available :p

vbplaya: Well, thanks for your response. How did you do in this one?

Nerchio: depends who you ask ;)

Nerchio: i was ~45 in legend or something around that

Nerchio: satisfied and disappointed at the same time

vbplaya: Well, just being in legend is awesome (IMO)

Nerchio: agreed

Nerchio: but in some ways i wanted to fix my bot but it was to big of a mess to change in the end

MSmits: you're not alone in that

vbplaya: we have very different standards ... I just wanted to be in the top 50% because I missed the first 2 weeks ... and I got to silver and in the top 50% ... so I'm happy about that

Astrobytes: It's back in the multi section

MSmits: cool

Nerchio: i might try ghost in a cell now

Nerchio: :p

vbplaya: ya, I learned a lot about how I will approach this next time.

Astrobytes: Did you also read the PMs in the forum vbplaya?

vbplaya: I also did this entire contest without looking at anyone's video or getting any info from people in the PMs and so forth because I wanted to see how I would do without any other help.

vbplaya: So NO ... I didn't ... next time I will though ... just wanted to see what I came up with on my own.

Astrobytes: No, the post-mortems, the after contest reports

Astrobytes: for OOC

vbplaya: Oh, sorry ... misunderstood you ... what is that ... and how do I look at it?



vbplaya: Oh, VERY cool Astrobytes ... thanks for pointing me there ... I didn't know about this. it will be very helpful.

Astrobytes: no worries vbplaya, they do that after every contest btw

vbplaya: Good to know ... I've got a lot to learn so this is definitely a useful resource.

MSmits: AntiSquid really did a ML bot??

MSmits: I thought he just suggested that it would be a good idea

Astrobytes: Tried

MSmits: pretty ballsy, hat off to you sir AntiSquid

Astrobytes: He spoke about it, was near end of first week/start of second iirc?

MSmits: yeah but people suggest ML all the time, it's different from actually going ahead with it, especially in a contest

AntiSquid: nothing ballsy imo ... it's just maths

Astrobytes: Everything is 'just maths' ;)

AntiSquid: and it felt like cutting corners if i actually make it work

MSmits: mmh maybe, it's still taking a risk

MSmits: thats what I meant

Astrobytes: Will you try again?

AntiSquid: yes

Astrobytes: Nice, hope you get it working

MSmits: yes that would be cool

AntiSquid: ya me too, i mean i hope to somehow apply ml to all games

MSmits: some games aren't suited though, I know of a few

MSmits: esp some of those nearly solved board games

AntiSquid: not suited for my current knowledge or skill, but imo all suitable

MSmits: I mean... a NN would use coding space that could fit an opening book that will wreck your nn :P

MSmits: it's a weird exception probably

MSmits: uttt is one

MSmits: nn would be awesome for meanmax and such I believe

MSmits: it would make sense of the chaos like nothing else can

MSmits: re curse was working on FB which has a similar engine and setup

MSmits: not sure if that got off the ground fully

Astrobytes: Was still working on it afaik

MSmits: ah ok

wlesavo: AntiSquid wow nice, i hope if you will succeed we will get an update

Nerchio: if not we dont want to hear about it :joy:

wlesavo: somehow this weird submits pushed me a lot, not really pushed me but drugged people around lower

Astrobytes: dragged :D

wlesavo: lol

Astrobytes: It's crush/crash all over again :P

Nerchio: top16 POG

Nerchio: #1 soon!

wlesavo: yeah

Nerchio: i played

Nerchio: 200 games

Nerchio: against amusruskin

wlesavo: lol

Nerchio: 240 actualy

wlesavo: who won

Nerchio: i guess me

Nerchio: since i am top 13 now

Nerchio: xD

eulerscheZahl: what's POG?

Nerchio: PogChamp refers to an emote, a small image used in chats on the video game streaming platform Twitch, used to express shock, surprise, or excitement.

Nerchio: copied from google

eulerscheZahl: ah, thanks :D

eulerscheZahl: i guess i just admitted that i don't use twitch

Nerchio: world spins around faster and faster i can hardly follow some things as well :p

Nerchio: i like to have twitch open on one of the monitors though

Astrobytes: I use it for CG streams and some other stuff sometimes but the emotes fly over my head

JFB: Nerchio - last I checked world (Earth) spin once per 24 hours. ;-)

AntiSquid: there are emotes on twitch you can only see as a premium user

Nerchio: did you guys play ghost in a cell I want to try it now

eulerscheZahl: around the own axis

eulerscheZahl: but once a year it spins around the sun

eulerscheZahl: i did, liked the game

JFB: eulerscheZahl - true

Nerchio: when i look at the concept it feels like it will be hard to go far with if statements :p

eulerscheZahl: you don't need a heavy simulation (will be hard with that huge branching)

eulerscheZahl: but you should do some computations to send the right amount of troops to defend your bases

Nerchio: you are top5 there nice :D

eulerscheZahl: i am? i thought 6th

eulerscheZahl: i guess someone pushed me

Nerchio: y 5

eulerscheZahl: indeed

Nerchio: 184 people in legend haha :p

eulerscheZahl: PED broken with his python2? used to be first

eulerscheZahl: looking at his last battles: definitely broken

Nerchio: python in a calculation game?

eulerscheZahl: it's not that CPU intense

Zenoscave: eulerscheZahl that python you shared earlier in a paste. can you share it again?

eulerscheZahl: yes

Zenoscave: thanks

eulerscheZahl: this?


eulerscheZahl: oh it's trimmed

Zenoscave: thats the one

wlesavo: when will cp points arrive?

Zenoscave: pastebin maybe?

Zenoscave: tonight wlesavo

wlesavo: thx


Zenoscave: once a day or so i am told

Zenoscave: ;)

Astrobytes: your replay stats analysis script?

eulerscheZahl: yeah i do download and analysis in 2 scripts

eulerscheZahl: so a bug in the analyzer won't ruin my downloads and force me to do it again

Zenoscave: smart

Astrobytes: Yeah, sensible

eulerscheZahl: common sense i would say

Zenoscave: Separation of concerns

ThomasNicoullaud: i see that initial position of the final run is really important :(

eulerscheZahl: i did a test at BotG

eulerscheZahl: had a bot ranked around 40

Nerchio: yeah sad my last commit was really weak :(

eulerscheZahl: broke it on purpose (kill switch to play strong in the rerun but poorly before)

eulerscheZahl: climbed from 98 to 73 i think

eulerscheZahl: still far away from my old rank

eulerscheZahl: and that's how i ruined my contest result :D

Astrobytes: You took one for the team

ThomasNicoullaud: at 8h i was 15th ... but lot a of people submit and push me 35th :(

ZarthaxX: wait you are a mod?

ZarthaxX: wat

ThomasNicoullaud: i should submit juste before rerun

eulerscheZahl: for 2 months

Nerchio: it says right there

Nerchio: moderator

Nerchio: ;)

ZarthaxX: i know

ZarthaxX: dont understand why

ZarthaxX: :thinking:

Astrobytes: Tardax strikes again :P

ZarthaxX: lmao

eulerscheZahl: to kick you of course

ThomasNicoullaud: :]

AntiSquid: why the name calling for ZarthaxX though?

ZarthaxX: eulerscheZahl :D

eulerscheZahl: is that a German-only fairy tale? grandma, why do you have such big eyes?

Astrobytes: No the 'tard thing came about the other week

eulerscheZahl: why do you have such big ears?

Astrobytes: Little Red Riding Hood

eulerscheZahl: exactly

eulerscheZahl: Rotkäppchen

AntiSquid: why do you have such a big coc grandma?

Astrobytes: Oh ffs

Nerchio: lol

AntiSquid: clash of code i meant, she wasn't playing shortest mode well

Nerchio: so you are trying to apply neural network to coc?

icecream17: What!? I added 10 lines... and won 10 out of the 10 first games in Ooc?

Default avatar.png IAmNoob: hi

icecream17: hi

Default avatar.png smcbot35: r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-rip

AntiSquid: ban?

AntiSquid: or kick?

MSmits: maybe it's a game map

MSmits: like the start of Onitama


Astrobytes: lol

icecream17: NN plays clash of code....

MSmits: ?

MSmits: pretty sure there is not a neural network on clash of code

icecream17: Just an idea I had. Probably bad

MSmits: ah, well it's not workable

MSmits: NN are not suitable for creating things out of nothing

MSmits: it can't code for you

YannT: PM posted :)

MSmits: if it could, that would be scary

MSmits: will read YannT

MSmits: seriously, 600 lines of code

MSmits: i know it's kotlin, but...

YannT: yup :)

YannT: 637 exactly ;)

eulerscheZahl: >1400 here

eulerscheZahl: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

MSmits: I ended with 2700 or so

MSmits: much duplicate code I did not have the patience to whittle down

MSmits: like: Oh I need to check for torpedo before and after move? ... copy paste, done

MSmits: possibly i should not have been so lazy with those long breaks :P

icecream17: The while loop in my code is from lines 127 to 369 ......handleOpponent from 444 to 939..........

eulerscheZahl: did you use a single file for that or did you merge multiples MSmits?

MSmits: single file

MSmits: great fun scrolling :P

eulerscheZahl: first time i used a code bundler on CG

icecream17: Multiple files? You can do that?

eulerscheZahl: liked it that way much more on RAIC where you can submit zip files

eulerscheZahl: icecream17 you need a script to paste multiple files into one

MSmits: it's just for when you are working on it icecream17, to work more easily

MSmits: I just minimize most functions and it's doable

MSmits: not great, but doable

icecream17: i'm sorry... but... minimize???

Default avatar.png IAmNoob: good game

MSmits: Visual studio

MSmits: you can minimize functions. I expect any good IDE will allow this

icecream17: ?

MSmits: if you use C#, you can even add regions

Default avatar.png IAmNoob: we dont need minimize

MSmits: and minimize those

wlesavo: YannT lol feeling bad for wala having to delete spaces

Default avatar.png IAmNoob: are u a c#?

MSmits: sometimes, this contest i used c++

eulerscheZahl: ah, minimize = collapse

MSmits: ah right, collapse, sorry

eulerscheZahl: somehow i thought about minifying

Default avatar.png IAmNoob: MSmits I am developer in c++

icecream17: still dont understand

MSmits: icecream17, are you on windows

Astrobytes: icecream17 look in the CG IDE

icecream17: chrome

Astrobytes: do you see those arrows

MSmits: yes but on windows right... chrome is a browser

Default avatar.png IAmNoob: do you want to come in a game?

eulerscheZahl: Chrome OS

Astrobytes: next to the line numbers

MSmits: oh chrome os

Default avatar.png IAmNoob: icecream17 :)

Default avatar.png IAmNoob: chrome

MSmits: well, you can minimize your window on chome os too I am guessing

icecream17: OS?

MSmits: i dont think he is on chrome OS :P

eulerscheZahl: nope

Astrobytes: icecream17 the arrows next to the line numbers in the CG browser IDE will collapse functions

AntiSquid: very low level trolling, please stop, IAmNoob

eulerscheZahl: there is a red X at the top right icecream17. when you click it, what do you see behind?

Default avatar.png IAmNoob: who want a clash?

Astrobytes: lol

MSmits: a red X ??

eulerscheZahl: oh, will he find the way back to CG now?

icecream17: red???

MSmits: i predicted it

eulerscheZahl: no idea, looks different to me

MSmits: just 1 extra questionmark

icecream17: Oh you mean close window?

ZarthaxX: toad troll

icecream17: (no response)

MSmits: icecream17, we just mean, you can make stuff small so you cant see it

MSmits: you can do it with browser windows and you can do it with code

eulerscheZahl: here, no X i don't know which color it should have

MSmits: so that if you write thousands of lines, it doesnt become untenable

AntiSquid: i don't have a red x what should i do?

icecream17: Woah. The line arrow thing is interesting

eulerscheZahl: but you have an X

Default avatar.png IAmNoob: good game

AntiSquid: but since it's not red it looks scary to me

AntiSquid: not gonna touch it

Default avatar.png IAmNoob: who wantws a clash?


AntiSquid: IAmNoob talk to AutomatonNN

AutomatonNN: who knows what is that in this contest?

MSmits: :clap:

icecream17: AutomatonNN?

AutomatonNN: ww=wood 1 to drone

Default avatar.png IAmNoob: AntiSquid?

Astrobytes: IAmNoob Start a clash, and people will join

Default avatar.png IAmNoob: ok

Default avatar.png IAmNoob: thx

MSmits: icecream17 didnt you have to do homeschooling ?

MSmits: I'm a teacher, if you're slacking, I will tell your teacher

MSmits: we all know eachother

Astrobytes: Master Smits laying down the law

Astrobytes: Connecting to the Teacher Hivemind

MSmits: exactly

AntiSquid: icecream17 have your teacher fight MSmits, see who is stronger

Nerchio: what are you teaching msmits

Nerchio: biology?

MSmits: ack no

MSmits: physics mostly, but i am transitioning partially to computer science

AntiSquid: bio-physics

MSmits: not at all

Nerchio: too smart for me

MSmits: biology is way harder than physics

Default avatar.png IAmNoob: yeah

Astrobytes: No it ain't

Nerchio: i dont know anything about either

Default avatar.png IAmNoob: i am a phd physics

Default avatar.png IAmNoob: and tried biology too

Default avatar.png IAmNoob: and saw that physics is better

MSmits: the smallest unit of life is a cell and it's too complicated to understand

MSmits: the smallest unit in physics is an elementary particle and it's super simple

Astrobytes: By incorporating physics it can help to understand

Astrobytes: *understand the workings of the cell

Astrobytes: The deeper you dig it becomes biochemistry, then just chemistry, then physical chemistry then physics

MSmits: the hard part is to understand how it all fits together

Astrobytes: So much going on in those wee cells. It's magnificent.

YannT: ahhh merging paths!

YannT: why didn't I think of that :(

Astrobytes: "the hard part is to understand how it all fits together" - it's also the fun part!

Default avatar.png IAmNoob: yeah


Default avatar.png IAmNoob: and to make a simulation on PC

Default avatar.png IAmNoob: to see how it behaives

YannT: I had a reset (kinda like surface) but I didn't want to lower the threshold for that because there's information loss so I instead accept the occasional timeout

Astrobytes: Yeah I know that one MSmits, glad it wasn't another Disney song :P

YannT: the merging idea would've allowed me to have a lower threshold and not time out!

MSmits: lol

AntiSquid: BlitzProg why 4096 possibilities? i don't understand

MSmits: nagatwin shared earlier that he also got rid of duplicates

MSmits: you can do that before merging

YannT: I did that

MSmits: I just merged but didnt worry about duplicates

YannT: there's never any

Astrobytes: I thought Naga would have done a pm

YannT: I would simulate opponent surface and then depublicate, keeping only one for each position

eulerscheZahl: just 7 timeouts YannT, not too bad

MSmits: it surprised me i got so many crashes in your statistics

MSmits: didnt seem like that when i was testing

MSmits: out of how many games was this?

MSmits: oh

MSmits: this is not just the recalc?

YannT: I usually had about 2% timeouts, but I removed all debugging for the final submit so that probably helped

YannT: but when I say 2%, I mean vs. top5, vs. you it was probably a lot more than that

MSmits: 34 out of 1151 matches

MSmits: oh yeah

MSmits: vs me you had a ton

MSmits: If it was just me and you on the leaderboard I'm not even sure you would still be above me

YannT: in the end I doubt that had any real impact, I blame my horrible pathing choice for not getting top10 :p

YannT: but the merging idea would've been nice

YannT: I just didn't think of that

eulerscheZahl: smits killed me. not with violence but with silence

YannT: so I decided to live with a higher threshold and some timeouts instead

MSmits: :P

MSmits: is this what happened in the recalc euler?

MSmits: too close to me on the board?

eulerscheZahl: nah, just a too high rank before the recalc

MSmits: ah ok, i figured you got too many games vs me and dropped from the timeouts

eulerscheZahl: possible

MSmits: your stats say i silenced exactly twice as much as you

eulerscheZahl: but my winrate vs you isn't an outliner

MSmits: and in the top 25 there was only 1 person who did more silence than me, slightly

MSmits: daaskare

eulerscheZahl: but you crashed a lot too

Default avatar.png IAmNoob: what is the clan GC?

MSmits: well 3%

MSmits: not too bad

Default avatar.png IAmNoob: CG*

MSmits: i was wondering though, your stats, from which point did you take them?

Astrobytes: It means Codingame staff IAmNoob

MSmits: is it just recalc?

Default avatar.png IAmNoob: thx

eulerscheZahl: i started at 10am

MSmits: or several days?

MSmits: oh

eulerscheZahl: so recalc + directly before

MSmits: ok then its right i guess

eulerscheZahl: but if you have multiple versions in my history, i only consider the latest

MSmits: i fixed some errors with timeouts yesterday

eulerscheZahl: but it includes your stats vs outdated opponents

eulerscheZahl: you can see that if you analyze the script i shared a little ealier ;)

MSmits: aha

MSmits: 2 guys in all of your stats that did more silence. I guess that explained why i used so few mines

MSmits: I was really conservative with placement, in my games you see them covering the map far apart

MSmits: i did prioritize mines over silence, but if my bot is not allowed to place very often, i still silence a lot

eulerscheZahl: 61%

MSmits: this would have been a helpful tool during contest as well

MSmits: i never knew i was that silency

wlesavo: based on just that stats i guess we can improve quite a bit

YannT: I told you :p

MSmits: funny how it says "other"

eulerscheZahl: and bots are surprisingly different even at higher ranks

eulerscheZahl: there isn't that one way

YannT: I literally told you you silenced a lot and that was bad because it means you lose a lot of time charging it back up ;)

MSmits: when?

MSmits: my bot changed a bit

MSmits: I think it got less silency, but apparently not that much less

MSmits: ah well, it helped me anyways.

MSmits: timing people out :P

YannT: when we were discussing my timeouts and I explained why I didn't consider it much of an issue ;)

YannT: chain silence don't win

MSmits: ah yes

MSmits: but thats not what i do

MSmits: check my mine damage, its still a lot

MSmits: but i do it with way fewer mines

MSmits: bout the same as yours i think

MSmits: as far as you can compare us... because we dont face the same opponent

YannT: well to be fair I played against bots that go into mines a lot less than lower down the ladder ;)

MSmits: anyway, gotta go walk the dog, thanks for the stats eulerscheZahl, it's really cool

MSmits: YannT yeah thats true

Rprades: hi, quick question. I finished 2 puzzles but i did not get the exp. Is there any problem? Or what am I missing? thanks!

eulerscheZahl: how could i miss the fact that you have a dog?

MSmits: i dunno, talked about her before

AntiSquid: he keeps mentioning his dog

MSmits: she's crazy and attacks people and other animals

MSmits: we keep her on a short leash

Astrobytes: You own a hellhound?

MSmits: anyway, i'll have stories another time, gotta go (yes she thinks she is a hellhound, but shes just a little dog)

AntiSquid: hey Rprades go here and click on your level, see what it says, if xp is really missing

MSmits: ttyl

Astrobytes: Aha, small dog syndrome

Astrobytes: ttyl

wlesavo: YannT i feel like if you would take my path estimation it would make quite a good bot actually

YannT: it would be really easy to replace my crap scoring for position value with something else too :)

YannT: pathing really was my anchor, I dunno why I didn't feel like going with something else before it was too late, I kinda got tunnel vision on this :p

icecream17: ok im back

icecream17: also, about the teacher thing, i have 7 classes.

wlesavo: but eval part looks quite good, maybe ill try to implement something similar

YannT: it's really what got me to where I am tbh

Kukiss: Hi all

wlesavo: it takes a specific way of thinking which i dont have yet but want to practice

YannT: other than that my tracking is good, but as good as everybody elese's, and my pathing is clearly subpar

Kukiss: I don't know if any1 asked it already wlesavo, but is there maybe any post mortem coming? I am really curious how you managed the data to be competitive using Python..

wlesavo: YannT opposite for me, it seems that i got carried by pathing

YannT: I would very accurately estimate mine positions etc, but only 4 tiles around my position at end of turn

YannT: and that was clearly not enough

wlesavo: Kukiss there is one already in the forum

wlesavo: so you didnt have whole damage map?

YannT: I did

YannT: but I only analyzed 4 moves deep

wlesavo: oh i read wrong

YannT: when my bot had to "take a turn" (i.e go into one sea or another with no possibility of going back other than surface), and one choice would lead it to a minefield and death

Kukiss: oh, I did not notice. Thanks

YannT: if it was more than 5 tiles away it wouldn't see

YannT: it would pick based on "well there's no mines around and there more space so I'mma go there"

YannT: no notion of "yeah, but there's mines you can't avoid just 5 turns later"

YannT: I read in one guy's PM about giving more weight to already visited tiles

YannT: probably shouldn't have done that

YannT: although it would've compounded the "my bot doesn't handle surface loops very well either" problem

wlesavo: i think random path works the same in the close region, but also accounts for floodfill to the length it can reach and cummulative damage is helpful to estimate if you wanna surface already

YannT: yeah but you're gonna force more surface on yourself (or choose to go into mines) when you don't necessarily have to is what I'm saying

YannT: if there's 100 tiles on one side and 101 tiles on the other +50 mines but there's a few tiles away, it's gonna go towards mine and eat a surface when it gets close to them

wlesavo: not what i meant, if you have valid path of sertain length you doont need the actuall flood fill, max length is reached, so thats enough already, then just estimate damage on path by summing up with a discount

YannT: oh yeah

YannT: basically any other path evaluation is probably better than what I've got

icecream17: ooh. back to the code

MichaelPu: you could add a discount for mined tiles in the floodfill

YannT: I tried that but performance was horrible

YannT: but I thought about it after there were ways to implement it in such a way that the performance would be acceptable

YannT: was too late tho :)

eulerscheZahl: as we talked about kawano's blog yesterday: val growth streaming (recording from earlier the day)

AntiSquid: woo

AntiSquid: and they have their chat

zurakin: yoo has anyone completed the reverse engineering puzzle?

**zurakin hi

eulerscheZahl: oh, that contest is live right now

zurakin: live?

AntiSquid: so we can't join?

eulerscheZahl: no idea what the URL is

AntiSquid: "The challenge is only accessible to 42 students." from twitter :D

AntiSquid: VIP only rofl

MSmits: actually it's not 42

MSmits: the network is called 42

MSmits: and they have many more students

AntiSquid: oh ok

Astrobytes: Hm, Ionly know Network 23

MSmits: maybe 42network is studying the question to the answer to life the universe and everything

Nerchio: yeah i read somewhere that there is 2 private contests going on right now or something

MSmits: thats how cg makes money to keep going

MSmits: sometimes those company sponsored contests are open to all

MSmits: they never give you codingpoint ranking btw

MSmits: but you do get xp

AntiSquid: maybe just the meaning of life during university years :p

eulerscheZahl: who cares, we want tshirts

MSmits: ah yes, I forgot your clothing situation

AntiSquid: but MSmits it's free for schools i think

MSmits: ah ok

AntiSquid: maybe they don't want the students wrecked

MSmits: makes sense

Nerchio: haha lol

Astrobytes: I liked the days we could hijack semi-private contests

MSmits: euler finds the secret links

Astrobytes: *used to

Astrobytes: But they removed them from the page source iirc

MSmits: probably best

Astrobytes: For them perhaps, what about us?! :P

MSmits: i mean if we're not supposed to wreck the students we shouldnt :P

MSmits: we got plenty to do :)

AntiSquid: nerchio is a student though, he could still wreck them maybe? nerchio can you join it?

Nerchio: idk i dont think so

reCurse: Since when are we not supposed to wreck students

reCurse: How else will they learn

AntiSquid: best life lesson

Nerchio: when you click join it makes you join a campus ;p

MSmits: ahh, you opened my eyes reCurse, now I see what i have been doing wrong in my job :P

MSmits: it needs more wrecking

AntiSquid: organize cg contest at your school MSmits

Nerchio: there is a guy in C# in top3 of that contest

MSmits: it's a good idea, but we only just got started with our CS curriculum

Nerchio: so yeah

MSmits: my colleague started teaching them java in 4th year and they have 2 more years of coding after

eulerscheZahl: leaderboard link?


eulerscheZahl: wow, lots of players

MSmits: definitely more than 42

Nerchio: if you had an email from one of those cities/campuses

Nerchio: i think you could join

AntiSquid: Kim Jong Un is last place :/


MSmits: ends tomorrow

Nerchio: yea i mean i wrote 42 network cg in google and it came up

Nerchio: wasnt that hard to find lol

MSmits: recurse, quick, dump your NN on there

ZarthaxX: he would crush them all

ZarthaxX: LOL

AntiSquid: wait it's until 21st April?

YannT: MSmits: actually CG mostly makes money by providing recruitment tests

MSmits: oh ok

AntiSquid: it's different from the actual game MSmits ZarthaxX

reCurse: You prevented me from completing it MSmits

eulerscheZahl: and a laptop for the winner :o

MSmits: ack... i did not pull you back into uttt did i? Or was it oware?

reCurse: oware

MSmits: ah ok

MSmits: well thats fine, it's a NN at least

Nerchio: its the squiditch game

Nerchio: or whatever

AntiSquid: yes

Nerchio: you can watch battles

YannT: it's like a multiple choice test, and also there's code questions that kinda use the same platform as the public game, but then they send you a report of how the candidate did, with snapshots of his code through time and stuff

AntiSquid: Nerchio it's Fantastic Bits

YannT: that's their "pro" offer for earning money :)

Nerchio: yea i know dont want to play that tbh

Nerchio: i stay away from vectors from now

AntiSquid: what you gonna do then

Nerchio: for *

YannT: and it's actually great when you wanna recruit dev, you just send them the link and it makes for a great first screening

Nerchio: i am trying ghost in a cell i think

MSmits: yeah, it gives you something to talk about during the interview also

Nerchio: but so far reading input got me ^.^

Astrobytes: MSmits

Astrobytes: Also I think they did a blog article on it

AntiSquid: you got ooc legend, everything else should be easy

MSmits: i remember reading that

MSmits: Astrobytes

MSmits: didnt know most of the money was from recruitment tests

darkhorse64: apart from the spells, it does not look that different

Nerchio: no antisquid i think other challenges look harder lol :p

AntiSquid: you didn't spend a month on them

AntiSquid: did you

MSmits: ow, there's a little yellow bot thingy talking to me on cg work. Did AutomatonNN make a baby?

AutomatonNN: what is the problem?

Nerchio: antisquid i spend 10 days on ooc not a month ;D

MSmits: no no, no problem

AntiSquid: ya what's your problem you racist?

YannT: they even have a visio interview thing as part of their "pro" offering now so you can do remote interviews

AntiSquid: bot hater

MSmits: :P

eulerscheZahl: what kind of game is that?

eulerscheZahl: you can click on the nodes to see the matches

AntiSquid: then maybe that's your kind of game nerchio


MSmits: ok so you win the contest and then try to find an alternate ranking

MSmits: makes no sense, interesting stuff though :)

eulerscheZahl: "he was expected to win" you want to trigger the gender nazis, don't you? :D

Nerchio: he won and he wants to see if he also won in all alternate universes

MSmits: mmh i think you calling them nazis might trigger the gender nazis :P

MSmits: oops

MSmits: now i did it too!

Nerchio: i was expecting msmits to be top5 with alternate ranking

Nerchio: but turns out no

MSmits: where am i at

Nerchio: idk i dont see you

eulerscheZahl: and i'm on spot with 28th

Nerchio: around 25

Nerchio: i think

Nerchio: msmits

MSmits: yeah where to see


Nerchio: last pic?

YannT: I'm still #11 and no top10 achievement, alternate ranking fake news

cegprakash: ocean of code is back??

cegprakash: yet?

eulerscheZahl: yes

Nerchio: ye

MSmits: I know why trictrac beat zenoscave 88% instead of 53%

YannT: yes

eulerscheZahl: timeouts?

MSmits: yes

MSmits: his both was worse than yours

AntiSquid: yes

MSmits: on timeouting

MSmits: that is

cegprakash: how I'm already on silver

eulerscheZahl: zeno, chucknorris and me collected them, true

cegprakash: auto submit?

eulerscheZahl: final contest leaderboard was copied

cegprakash: and I see all my history from the contest

cegprakash: wow

cegprakash: interesting idea

cegprakash: thanks CG

eulerscheZahl: same happened for UTG / crystal rush already

cegprakash: oh

cegprakash: that's why I was surprised in UTG today

cegprakash: when I opened crystal rush

cegprakash: and saw my bot already on gold

YannT: no more double dipping on XP though

cegprakash: what sad

cegprakash: :(

cegprakash: that was my hope to hold my lead

MSmits: fine with me, xp is not meant for that

YannT: resubmiting my contest bots into the multis and leaving them there was my bread and butter :(

reCurse: People still caring about xp

reCurse: wat

YannT: I deserve to be golden

eulerscheZahl: we can't max-out on XP anymore

AntiSquid: where you doing all the jap AI stuff from eulerscheZahl

AntiSquid: digging *

AntiSquid: where are you digging it from

eulerscheZahl: to whom are you talking?

AntiSquid: you

AntiSquid: you found bunch of links

Astrobytes: You've triggered squid's inner weeb

eulerscheZahl: CG twitch

eulerscheZahl: twitter*

eulerscheZahl: and the in-game leaderboard for games like 4 player CSB

AntiSquid: better a weeb than anglophile in times like these

eulerscheZahl: (that was id=1)

reCurse: twit casting lol

Astrobytes: true AntiSquid

reCurse: Bless their innocence

Astrobytes: "twit casting" just that phrase makes my teeth itch

**MSmits is googling "weeb"

MSmits: oh that again

Astrobytes: What did you google before? Waifu?

AntiSquid: MSmits watch out you have a lot of exposure to that lately and it's contagious

MSmits: nah AntiSquid shared a yt about some guy marrying an anime hologram

AntiSquid: maybe you got the weeb flu already, should self isolate

MSmits: think he was a uber-weeb

Astrobytes: Ah yeah that was it. He married his cuddly toy waifu....

eulerscheZahl: and we have another multiplayer pending

Astrobytes: It's not contagious, it's fairly repellant :P

reCurse: stahp

Astrobytes: Yeah, Conway's

MSmits: tulips and daisies 3p ?

eulerscheZahl: as 2 player

MSmits: whats that?

eulerscheZahl: looks like "game of life and death" from riddles

eulerscheZahl: wait, it's 4 players

MSmits: wow

Astrobytes: 4 players...

MSmits: at some point they will need to make subcategories for multis

AntiSquid: hey MSmits change avatar

Astrobytes: You have some kind of avatar fixation squiddy?

AntiSquid: no

icecream17: =) don't know why that was...

MSmits: he's just a weeb for physics professor anime

AntiSquid: just offering MSmits an anime alternative

Astrobytes: Always telling people to get an avatar or recommending one

MSmits: i like the pic AntiSquid, but its not good for small size

AntiSquid: oh i have a fixation for avatarless folks i guess

Astrobytes: Admittedly that's quite a decent one

AntiSquid: see Astrobytes? he likes it

Astrobytes: So do I!

Astrobytes: Just use the head MSmits

AntiSquid: ya looks funny, hair waving

AntiSquid: you can crop when you upload

MSmits: meh I am too attached to my current avatar

MSmits: It looks more like me than your pic

MSmits: more glasses, less hair :P

Astrobytes: I have never known any physics professor with hair

MSmits: mmh my colleagues have hair mostly

MSmits: on their head even

Astrobytes: Yeah? REmarkable

Astrobytes: I find biologists have the most hair

Astrobytes: on their heads

MSmits: sure, they know how it grows

AntiSquid: like where else would you see their hair growng from MSmits

Astrobytes: lol

MSmits: i don't know AntiSquid, I just hypothesized it

AntiSquid: become an experimental physicist

MSmits: hah I am very far from that

MSmits: in my physics group, I am always the theory guy, we have another physicist that is great at experimental stuff

Astrobytes: Does he have hair?

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: he's older than me and has more hair

Astrobytes: Ergo, theoretical physics causes baldness

AntiSquid: ok question, why isn't tesla more popular

MSmits: think maybe you did some p-hacking there

MSmits: nothing wrong with tesla

Astrobytes: :D

wlesavo: i know many physicists with hair, some of them teaching

MSmits: glad you're butting in on this very mature subject also wlesavo :P

reCurse: Rumors say MSmits switched to IT to prevent losing hair

MSmits: my IT colleague does also have more hair...

Astrobytes: Case closed

AntiSquid: but einstein had more hair than your profile picture

MSmits: well i never said that my profile pic was Einstein

MSmits: that is your assumption

AntiSquid: who does it represent ? :/

MSmits: me

AntiSquid: you bleached your hair?

MSmits: no, it's symbolic

Astrobytes: Do you have a 'tache like that tho?

MSmits: nah that's also symbolic

AntiSquid: blue top ?

Astrobytes: Symbolic of what, exactly?

AntiSquid: his stando

MSmits: what's a stando?

Astrobytes: stando?

MSmits: it's not anime related again is it?

AntiSquid: google it MSmits

reCurse: It is

Astrobytes: The lockdown is pushing squido into full weeb

AntiSquid: obviously your avatar is performing the battle stance

MSmits: ahh ok sure, stando works

reCurse: That doesn't look like a stando at all though

MSmits: maybe that's the idea

MSmits: it's failed stando

MSmits: reCurse, you arent still working on oware are you?

reCurse: No

Astrobytes: Stop swearing MSmits

MSmits: what is your project now, if you want to share?

reCurse: No project

MSmits: no multi, no nn etc.?

reCurse: No

MSmits: oh ok

MSmits: busy with work then?

Astrobytes: Just gaming or life stuff?

darkhorse64: MSmits: come rekt karliso on Onitama

MSmits: or right, reCurse still games

MSmits: darkhorse64 I am working on it

MSmits: I got a state representation that fits in 64 bit :)

reCurse: Yeah I guess

AntiSquid: too MSmits karliso got bored and quit CG while waiting

AntiSquid: too late *

AntiSquid: damn it, i am eating up words

Astrobytes: reCurse your mojo will return

MSmits: hehe yeah, I have no idea how long i'll be at onitama either. Just want to get it working. If it's good and i know an eval that works well. I'll stick around longer


MSmits: trying to convert to a good card system now, I can fit it in 5 bit

MSmits: but it's not easy

Astrobytes: Yeah not that mojo

darkhorse64: 64 bits including the cars ?

MSmits: including

darkhorse64: cards

MSmits: 25 bits for all positions, 3 bits per master, totals 56 bit, 1 bit for the turn, 7 bits left, I need 5 for the cards, so 2 bits left

reCurse: What is this, the 70s

MSmits: 62 out of 64, good deal :)

MSmits: hey it's nice, if i want to use maps and sets i can use a 64 bit key :0

Astrobytes: I'm off to work on my optimised punchcards

MSmits: hf :)

AntiSquid: what?

Astrobytes: I'm joking ffs

AntiSquid: sure

Nerchio: wtf haha

Nerchio: i keep getting games only against amurushkin in ooc xD

Nerchio: ~288 games

Nerchio: ah i guess maybe he is working on his bot and submitting

Nerchio: so its the same for others too

AntiSquid: no

AntiSquid: it's just you

Nerchio: ;o

wala: Nerchio you were 41 this morning and now you're 13 ???

Nerchio: yea bugged

Nerchio: i have 288 games vs one player :)

cegprakash: when should I use silence? when enemy can track me well?

Nerchio: yes

Nerchio: or sometimes after you shoot

Nerchio: or some other options as well

cegprakash: my rand() always returns the same values (same cycles). All my games run on the same server?

Nerchio: do you guys remember the name of the plugin that could run the games and see the stats

Astrobytes: either brutaltester or cgbenchmark, depending if you want to test vs yourself (former) or a selection of players (the latter)

Nerchio: there was one for webbrowser

Astrobytes: cgspunk?

Nerchio: ye probably thsis one

Astrobytes: That doesn't work now

Nerchio: ah :(

Nerchio: i am crushing wood3 in ghost in the cell

Nerchio: most of the bots dont do anything xD

aCat: that's wood

aCat: what did you expect :P

Nerchio: i was getting crushed in legend ooc so it feels good to win :D

Default avatar.png SatoshiNakamoto: Hi

Nerchio: but wood2 is giving my 5 min alghoritm some trouble

cegprakash: cgspunk is bugged I think

Nerchio: :(

cegprakash: it never worked for me

cegprakash: I installed it for the BATCH RUN feature

cegprakash: but except that all other features work fine

cegprakash: but those are cool features too

cegprakash: u can try it

cegprakash: it's a chrome extension

Astrobytes: You need CGBenchmark for runs against a set of opponents now

Astrobytes: (or your own tool)

Nerchio: does it use server power?

Astrobytes: Yeah, so did CGSpunk

Astrobytes: So there's a delay between requests

Nerchio: but if everybody used that it wouldn't be so good :D

aCat: yeah, cg spunk is not working for me :(

aCat: Is something wrong with it globally?

Astrobytes: It just wasn't updated to reflect the CG API changes aCat

aCat: ah, ok, that's sad :(

Astrobytes: CGBenchmark is cool tho, just a bit less 'plg 'n' play' ;)

Astrobytes: *plug

Nerchio: if it doesnt overload servers then i will probably use it next time

Nerchio: its not the one where you need to write the referee is it?

Nerchio: xD

Astrobytes: Nerchio

Nerchio: ok nice will be easier to debug ^^

cegprakash: is there anyone in legend who don't use mines and sonars?

cegprakash: because I'm committing on this strat

Swagboy: No

cegprakash: oh

cegprakash: at least no mines?

Nerchio: i dont use sonars in legen

Nerchio: but mine is neccessary xD

cegprakash: sonar is easy to code

cegprakash: I can take it from my wood1 bot

cegprakash: but mine I've no idea where to place

Nerchio: everywhere

cegprakash: :O

cegprakash: but opponent will know u placing

cegprakash: whats the point

cegprakash: better to charge something else

cegprakash: ?

cegprakash: when u charge a mine

Nerchio: all the time

cegprakash: u can only charge 1 skill at a turn

Nerchio: torpedo first always

Nerchio: then mine/silence as you choose

cegprakash: how u choose?

cegprakash: unless u predict next 6 moves

cegprakash: between mine and silence

cegprakash: coz u take 6 turns to charge a silence

Nerchio: i like to have silence ready

cegprakash: I'm right now wasting a lot of silences

cegprakash: I need to find some logic when I should avoid casting silence

cegprakash: so that I can save mana for mine or sonar

MSmits: mana?

Astrobytes: energy/charge

MSmits: ah... well it's a good thing he's not casting spells from his sub then

Nerchio: wood1 ghost in the cell

Nerchio: hype xd

Astrobytes: flipendo

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: gz Nerchio

Astrobytes: nice Nerchio

Nerchio: damn wood1 has some tough competition

Nerchio: will have to tackle it tomorrow

cegprakash: does anyone choose spawn location based on myId? say spawn in the center if first player or spawn in corner if second player to be defensive

tekki: hallo world!

tekki: AutomatonNN advice?

AutomatonNN: can someone help me with the code that i did in javascript and javascript code is community puzzle a

TrentT: Can you link the code?

tekki: hmm me mo :)

tekki: Automaton2000?

Automaton2000: i don't even know how to do it on the forum

tekki: :) good boy

tekki: Automaton2000 can you link the code? please

Automaton2000: damn i just found a bug in my code.

Kelvz: this's good

TrentT: Welcome to the club

tekki: so Automaton2000 can you link your code?

Automaton2000: im not gonna do that

tekki: why ? Automaton2000?

Automaton2000: anyone knows if there is one

tekki: and? Automatmon2000?

tekki: and? Automaton2000?

Automaton2000: depends on what i should do something

tekki: can AutomatonNN link the code Automaton2000?

Automaton2000: do you guys think of the contest

AutomatonNN: with a that strategy

Nerchio: so in bronze usually all things are unlocked right?

reCurse: Not always, but for recent games yes

Nerchio: Starting from the bronze league, you can increase the production rate of your factories. This is the last rule change.

Nerchio: nice

Nerchio: so with minimal code i got to all the rules now i can start thinking about strategy :p

Nerchio: damn Unleash the geek looks fun as well

cegprakash: lol

cegprakash: u seem so excited

Nerchio: ye i like coding bots :D

cegprakash: me debugging at Silver

cegprakash: i'm wondering how gold boss works

cegprakash: sorry silve rboss

cegprakash: it prints my exact position at turn 20. That's the 10th turn for him

cegprakash: that too before dealing any damage or receiving any damage

cegprakash: it prints my position in the message


cegprakash: please check turn 20

vbplaya: cegprakash, I cant watch the replay for some reason.

cegprakash: it works in private windo for me

cegprakash: plz try in private window

tomatoes: shooting without damage reduce possible positions too

cegprakash: interesting

cegprakash: I need to add that

cegprakash: thanks tomatoes

cegprakash: so my torpedo target should also be optimal

cegprakash: damn

cegprakash: this is fun

cegprakash: my tracking is wrong when both players damage each other

cegprakash: interesting

cegprakash: that too when enemy uses torpedo on himself

cegprakash: just so he can hit me as well

cegprakash: opponent guesses my position accurately at 30th turn without using any skills at all.


cegprakash: how is this even possible

ZarthaxX: u have bad movement?

cegprakash: check replay

cegprakash: it's not bad

ZarthaxX: he just shot you at the very end

ZarthaxX: in your exact tile

ZarthaxX: im confused

cegprakash: no he shot after he decided

ZarthaxX: mhm?

ZarthaxX: what frame

cegprakash: turn 30 see MSG printed by boss

cegprakash: on right side above the cooldowns

cegprakash: it says "11 3 or 1"

ZarthaxX: and the 1

ZarthaxX: means yours?

cegprakash: yeah

ZarthaxX: well

cegprakash: at the start of the game the possibilities are large

ZarthaxX: take into account that the moment you shoot

cegprakash: it shrinks to 1

ZarthaxX: you sold yourself a lot

ZarthaxX: yeah well they shrink hwere basically coz of your movement and torpedo shot

cegprakash: I soold nothing

ZarthaxX: your movement generates invalid tiles for later on

ZarthaxX: that discards a lot

ZarthaxX: when u torpedo you reveal yourself a lot too

cegprakash: I never shot him

ZarthaxX: frame 29

cegprakash: not at 30th turn

ZarthaxX: u shot somewhere

ZarthaxX: then he shot you

cegprakash: it did not damage him

ZarthaxX: no

ZarthaxX: but you shot

cegprakash: so what

ZarthaxX: he saw where you shot

cegprakash: no

ZarthaxX: he can discard options

cegprakash: he can't do that

ZarthaxX: lmao

ZarthaxX: yes

ZarthaxX: you get enemy torpedo position

ZarthaxX: :rofl:

cegprakash: what he knows my torpedo position

cegprakash: wtf

cegprakash: wew

ZarthaxX: read the rules plz

cegprakash: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

cegprakash: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

cegprakash: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

ZarthaxX: lmao

ZarthaxX: u could have got gold

ZarthaxX: LOL

cegprakash: out off all the things to track

cegprakash: this is the most crucial one

cegprakash: and I didn't do it

cegprakash: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

ZarthaxX: yep

TrentT: ┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

cegprakash: thanks for fixing the table TrentT

cegprakash: I will fix my code tomorrow

cegprakash: I mean tonight..

cegprakash: why am I going to sleep at 7:30 AM

cegprakash: I am being paid

cegprakash: zz

ZarthaxX: lmao