eulerscheZahl: congrats Zenoscave
ZarthaxX: finally he did it
ZarthaxX: and u didnt belive shark
eulerscheZahl: i did
ZarthaxX: :P
eulerscheZahl: going to work now, bye
ZarthaxX: cya
MadKnight: how's your bot ZarthaxX ?
MadKnight: Automaton2000, is he not gone ?
Automaton2000: it was a fun one
Crypticsy: Oups
An error occurred (#563): "Invalid stub generator". Please contact codersHS@codingame.com
Crypticsy: any reason this might occur?
MadKnight: which puzzle ?
Crypticsy: hey madknight
Crypticsy: how are you? XD
Crypticsy: i was making my own
MadKnight: then fix your stub generator ezpz
Crypticsy: this is my stub generator input
Crypticsy: Oups
An error occurred (#563): "Invalid stub generator". Please contact codersHS@codingame.com
Crypticsy: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/b074993c-4460-4f98-abed-f5ae712ed92e
Crypticsy: my bad there XD wrong copy paste
MadKnight: something's wrong there for sure
Crypticsy: should i send you the link to the puzzle?
MadKnight: naa
ZarthaxX: ded MadKnight
ZarthaxX: :P
MadKnight: why ZarthaxX? fix it
MadKnight: what do u code ZarthaxX ?
Quidome: In rust I got an unresolved import text_io. Seems that you can only use a few crates.
Quidome: No rust players at the moment I suppose :)
ZarthaxX: coding sse stuff to test out in c++
Famout: C++, why do you hate parsing so much?
thibpat: We're live, trying to track our own submarine to avoid the opponent from finding us! https://twitch.tv/thibpat
mlomb: oh god, the time has come
mlomb: Submitted code is too big
Famout: o_o I didn't know that was possible... how big was it?
mlomb: 103 kB / 100 kB (103.39%) :disappointed:
AntiSquid: for this contest they should allow more .
Famout: Wait, how can I check that?
Famout: Pretty positive my own stuff ain't reaching that, but got a few #includes
AntiSquid: count each individual character
Famout: That... isn't really an answer >_>;;
mlomb: yeah, thats literally the stat
Famout: I mean mlomb you counted yourself and gave the percentage manually?
AntiSquid: of course, how slow do you count?
Famout: I was just hoping for a way I could easily check. Guess not.
mlomb: no I have a tool that merge and clean my code
AWice: lmao i get captcha'ed every time i play clash because im too fast/good. admins please make it stop
Riyuk: I'm wondering why a lot of people are starting in a sea zone
wlesavo: Nice zeno
vbplaya: Quick question ... when you say move N|torpedo x y ... is the 4 block distance you can shoot your torpedo from your new spot or the spot you are sending the command from?
Illedan: Every action happens in sequence
Illedan: Shooting after move => shoot from new position
vbplaya: thanks !!
Bootjewolf: just starting with this challenge and i am quite new to programming so could someone give me a little hint how i would start with the ocean of code challenge
Illedan: There is a lot of streams you can look at
Bootjewolf: ok
Bootjewolf: thanks
Illedan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGtTAE9DlNo
noob_noob_noob: hi
Beerus: silver boss has bugs
Beerus: https://www.codingame.com/replay/451131124
Beerus: he lost with timeout
Bohdan23: Yeah, I also notice this. Seems this happens when there are too many possible opponents positions (like > 5000)
Bohdan23: (by position I mean not only final, but whole history of positions)
DanTheMan832: I can't make it to gold :(
Riyuk: Try to improve your tracking, it's the key
duckquackduck: +1 for Illedans stream!
Beerus: traacking cant be perfect
Beerus: if it does it gets timeout 100%
Febrin: Did somebody use API from github to do local testing?
If yes I can only run demo with fixed seed and I am wondering how to generate random maps
Beerus: i saw the github code in java
Febrin: I see only .jar files, cannot change the code
Beerus: https://github.com/CodinGameCommunity/ocean-of-code/blob/master/src/main/java/com/codingame/game/model/GridModel.java
AWice: @admin please remove captcha or atleast stop captcha-ing me every clash i do, really annoying to do like 50 captchas in one day
Beerus: see the initialize function
Febrin: Thanks bro
LonelyMasterVanDerSwag_7511: Hello World
Riyuk: AWice you must be so fast :p
Febrin: If somebody interested there is `gameRunner.setSeed(1337L);` line in \src\test\java\Main.java
wlesavo: AWice CG cares about your mental health, try contest for a change
AWice: what is contest?
MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/contests/ocean-of-code
MSmits: but it's near to its end
AWice: oh its like very long challenge
AWice: i like fast haha
MSmits: try any multiplayer game: https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming
AWice: thats ok ill just be quiet and play clash and do the damn captchas lol
MSmits: some of these are faster: https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/optimization
MSmits: allright. Just let me know when you want me to spam ideas.
wlesavo: MSmits hows your road to legend?
MSmits: havent coded yet today. Not sure if i'm going to make it. All the fun things are done, I do have a small list. Maybe you can help me pick what to go for
wlesavo: what you have on the list?
MSmits: 1) I am ignoring sonar, I could try do something with that. Not sure if it is worth it
MSmits: 2) Currently I am moving, then torpedo in a set order, i am not considering different orders to increase torpedo range
MSmits: 3) I dont have a fatality check
wlesavo: fatality is the one to go for sure
wlesavo: it is quite fun also
MSmits: 4) Currently i spread out mines very far, so their explosion ranges dont overlap. I charge silence when i cant place a mine
chucknorris: you should bruteforce all command combinations too
MSmits: you mean for fatality chucknorris ?
chucknorris: "Currently I am moving, then torpedo in a set order, "
MSmits: Yes
AntiSquid: free_health_care(terminally_ill(enemy));
chucknorris: you should even silence after torpedo
YannT: torpedo before moving is worth implementing
YannT: because torpedo+move as opposed to the other way around get you an extra charge
wlesavo: sonar is worth to keep track if opponent using it, because you can be misslead in self tracking, if you have that then it is ok
YannT: useful in close combat situations, one charge is often the difference between win or lose
MSmits: oh, right YannT
MSmits: I dont have self tracking yet either
MSmits: not sure what to do with the information when i have it
wlesavo: oh, self tracking is quite necessary
MSmits: yes, but what to do with the information?
chucknorris: uhh its a must. you should maximize your count of possible locations too
YannT: use silence when detection is high for starters :)
wlesavo: use silence, optimization of movements, and helpfull in mine avoidance
MSmits: mmh so much work, so little motivation :) I'll try. Thanks guys
MSmits: btw, for self tracking, i assume it's not enough to look 1 turn ahead
MSmits: for mine avoidance i do a beamsearch, but for selftracking that seems impossible. Too expensive
chucknorris: yes I too lost my motivation. had to skip two days which dropped me from top5 to top10. no motivation to climb back
MSmits: I skipped 2-3 week s:P
wlesavo: same here, switched to other multis for now
AntiSquid: i am here for the chat
MSmits: you're an expert at that AntiSquid
wlesavo: basically my bot didnt changed much from silver, only little things
YannT: I wish I had an idea for that one last extra little thing I could add
AntiSquid: personally i believe the only real solution is ML, since this just asks for too many things in too little time, so you need a trained model that just takes inputs and forward propagates to get the answers. Wasted a full week failing to do that though.
YannT: just to get a bit of extra push, because if I don't find something to improve some I don't think I'll be in the final top10 :(
AntiSquid: think about all the different aspects you need to take into consideration and then implement to do guess work and then take action based on that guess work
AntiSquid: it's ridiculous and requires more statistics than programming imo
YannT: that is in a nutshell what I try to do, except within an eval
YannT: but in the end iot's impossible to balance every factor perfectly I think
YannT: there'll always be a situation in which your eval takes the wrong decision for bad reasons
chucknorris: I've been trying AlphaZero on UTTT for like three weeks AntiSquid. It's not working yet, but once it'll do I'll just insert the actual contest referee, train for a week, and the submit and win. thats the plan :p
AntiSquid: will share what i tried to do regarding this after contest, hope someone can give me some hints
MSmits: chucknorris I don't think that's worth trying for uttt. The game is so imbalanced, it is nearly solvable for player 1
MSmits: if you do succeed it, I will find your primary line of play, counter it with an opening book and you'll lose every game as player 2
MSmits: I did this for Miarem, karliso and re curse. They all lose 100% as player 2 vs me
MSmits: when I say 100% I mean i tried a CG bench of 300 games and I won every one
AntiSquid: mchl has the strongest bot for the time spent imo
AntiSquid: too bad he got bored
chucknorris: maybe thats why it's not working then :p it loses 1-9 vs my mcts bot
AntiSquid: but it's basically the 1st week bot so who cares
MSmits: well my trick only works against people that have an opening book or an extremely deterministic bot chucknorris
MSmits: the top 4 all made pretty sophisticated opening books
AntiSquid: leeching points from smits :o
MSmits: so basically my trick is mostly a counter vs cheesy tactics
MSmits: if they didn't use them, I wouldn't need it :)
Riyuk: MSmits aka Robin hood of cg
MSmits: :P
Illedan: Making an openingbook like that doesn't seem funny :P
AntiSquid: rofl mandatory loss streak, that's just ridiculous
chucknorris: but the rankz Illedan
tomatoes: someone pushed me to legend :grinning:
MSmits: Illedan it was fun for me, but really only because making it gave me more insight into the game. I also coded some other stuff that came from knowledge gained from staring at meta mcts for hours :P
AntiSquid: hm wasn't me
tobk: :clap:
AntiSquid: but that's good, we finally have your ass out of the way
wlesavo: AntiSquid i think when he was #1 at bronze he already had most of basic features, only lacking mine avoidance. he for sure was the one prooving that fatality is worth implementing
tobk: with "fatality" you mean insta-kill move combinations? I just recently implemented them (and seem to work quite well), but did not give a huge boost
MSmits: it's funny how you slowly shift upwards after submission in ooc
MSmits: makes it kinda hard to tell if a new submission is better, because it takes time
tobk: but it still great fun to see my sub surface, silence, move and then blast the opponent :-D
chucknorris: my bot is oscillating between top12 and 24
AntiSquid: every contest is like that MSmits
AntiSquid: you need top 20 overall or so to see less of that effect
MSmits: yeah I guess so
MSmits: man, there are so many possible combinations of orders
MSmits: a lot to code to brute force the combinations
MSmits: move, silence, trigger, torpedo, surface, right?
MSmits: that's the 5 orders that can be used for a fatality
tomatoes: and in any order
MSmits: well surface should be first shouldnt it?
MSmits: if you're using it?
Illedan: Might not :think
Illedan: :thinking:
Illedan: But most likely
wlesavo: but you need to decide if you using it or not
MSmits: yes, so 2 combinations
MSmits: just a factor of 2 is not so bad
chucknorris: hm didn't think of that. I let my eval to decide that :p
tobk: for regular turns, I have fixed order surface?, move, torpedo?, mine?, trigger?, silence?; for "kill-shots" I do surface (if health permits), move (charge torpedo or silence), silence?, torpedo
MSmits: hmm but isnt it sometimes better to silence, then move?
MSmits: to reach a certain spot
MSmits: since silence is a straight line
MSmits: also you might need to trigger, then move, then torpedo, or trigger last to get out of the way of the blast
tobk: yes, you can reach some spaces you could not reach otherwise. also I'm not considering mines in that step yet, have to see how to integrate them in the reasoning
MSmits: i suppose you can code the blast separately and then pick the best position in the tree to use it
MSmits: this is pretty complicated =/
chucknorris: If you surface after a long silence you can save space. or if you move to other sector you can reduce the information given to the enemy by your sector id
MSmits: chucknorris true, but we're just talking about fatality check
chucknorris: umm okay
tobk: at the moment I check whether the "damage potenttial" (estimated damage a torpedo does when fired to one spot) is >= the opp health, then find a spot where to move to make that shot
MSmits: actually, for fatality, you should probably just always surface
MSmits: unless you're at 1 hp
tobk: adding mines to that equation wil be a bit tricky, but I still have a weekend to go :-)
MSmits: tobk yeah, i thought about doing torpedos that way, makes sense
chucknorris: I don't have a separate fatality bot, I have a "combat" bot, which gives big reward for winning :p
tobk: yeah, but you might also have to get so close to opp so you have to take damage yourself
tobk: e.g. if you and opp are in the same space and you can't silence
Illedan: I have a big spagetti mess for instakill :D
MSmits: yes, thats what worries me Illedan :P
Illedan: Working on some combat stuff for the last 2 weeks, but motivation and energy :P
wlesavo: i was wondering if there is better way to do it but yeah, also big plate of spagetti
MSmits: good to know
MSmits: there for sure is a way to reduce the spaghetti as much as possible. Always surfacing is one of those things
MSmits: (except when it kills you)
MSmits: but still a lot of spaghetti
Febrin: And what do you think about sonar?
While doing fatality consider a situation when using sonar gives us 100% estimation about the enemy position.
Also apart from the fatality sometimes it might quite reduce the number of enemy positions
MSmits: yes, but you cant immediately get sonar information, so you need to wait another turn
MSmits: but sure, in general it might help
tomatoes: i only start fatality checks if 100% known position
chucknorris: and you shouldn't surface if you are at 2 hp and the only way to kill the enemy is to damage yourself to MSmits
MSmits: that's not actually necessary though
MSmits: true chucknorris, i just thought of that earlier
MSmits: lag
MSmits: so still more spaghetti :)
MSmits: but tomatoes, you could for example have on one end of the map a mine where he could be, and near you is also a spot where he could be. Then you can trigger the mine and torpedo the other spot and get fatality
Febrin: Thats another interesting case
tomatoes: didn't add mines to fatality yet :sweat_smile:
Febrin: Now I am also trying to avoid spaghetti fatality. I consider brute force through (?) Let say we have 5 moves. So 5! * 2^5 = 3840. Move can give you 4 new positions, silence 16, so 3840 * 16 * 4 = 2.5 * 10^5, in practice it should be less
Febrin: If you fix some sequence of moves for eg. torpedo always after move it's even less
tomatoes: why 3840? only 4 moves
MSmits: silence has 13 combinations
MSmits: 4 + 4 + 4 + 1
MSmits: move has 3 at most
Febrin: Oh right you cant go back, I did a big upperbound
MSmits: also, first move, or first silence
Febrin: yup
MSmits: so 3 * 13 * 2 = 702
MSmits: err
MSmits: 78
MSmits: :P
MSmits: so 78 possible spots you can end up in
Febrin: Thats a little
MSmits: actually less
MSmits: because if you stay in place, the order of silence doesnt matter
Febrin: I regret my choice of Python instead of cpp but it might be doable
tomatoes: and a +8 torpedos if health=1
MSmits: why + 8?
tomatoes: around
MSmits: arent there way more than 8 spots you can shoot at?
tomatoes: around target
MSmits: that assumes you know it's position
MSmits: it might be 4 places it can be at
MSmits: clustered
MSmits: sill can hit them all with one torpedo
tomatoes: can hit myself
MSmits: that too
MSmits: it's good style to do as much damage as possible to yourself, as long as you win :)
MSmits: just explode a mine on yourself for giggles, even if it doesnt damage the opponent
Beerus: does anyone know if silver boss tracker is perfect?
MSmits: hard to say what is perfect
MSmits: there are some tiny improvements you can make that are almost certainly not worth it
Beerus: does it store every trajectory after silence?
MSmits: no idea, I'm guessing it might
MSmits: it's pretty essential
Beerus: i store everything and i get more points than him
MSmits: it's not the only thing that maters
MSmits: matters
wlesavo: it sometimes timeouts, so probably it does, i know gold one does not store it for a fact :slight_smile:
MSmits: wow
MSmits: why is gold one so good then?
Beerus: missing a point can be fatal though
tomatoes: cheats
wlesavo: most of other basic features and mineavoidance
MSmits: no selftracking either I guess then?
wlesavo: i consider self tracking as a basic feature
MSmits: but if you dont track all silence paths, how can you properly self track?
Famout: I just make the path then follow it myself, and silience at good points along it.
wlesavo: i mean i still track it, just keep only common parts of a paths that come to the same point
MSmits: ahh well thats still perfect tracking, only with pruning when necessary
MSmits: thats the way to do it
Illedan: I can crash myself by using too much silence for my own tracking :D
MSmits: lol
MSmits: I used your silence spam bot to get my pruning working Illedan
MSmits: like 2 weeks ago that was
wlesavo: i crushed some top bots by spaming mines lol
wlesavo: ii mean crashed
wlesavo: damn those words
Illedan: Legend is full spamfest :D
AntiSquid: 322245 possible mine positions counted from all paths, ya no wonder i time out :/
wlesavo: lol
MSmits: mmh are those positions from where mines could have been laid, or positions where mines could be ?
AntiSquid: everything
MSmits: it's pretty important not to track positions where mines could be, as separate states
MSmits: that will explode your state space
wlesavo: 3 orders larger then the whole ocean
MSmits: instead track places from which mines were laid
MSmits: reduces branching by a factor of 4
AntiSquid: the silences are enough
MSmits: they are bad yeah
wlesavo: ocean of silence
AntiSquid: wait i only track where mines could be placed
wlesavo: the submarines of mines and silence
AntiSquid: but some replays are full of silences and mines so ...
MSmits: from or to AntiSquid?
MSmits: placed from, or placed to
AntiSquid: i don't get your question
MSmits: the sub is on a position
MSmits: it can place on 4 locations
MSmits: do you record the 4, or the 1
AntiSquid: ya i use the sub position
MSmits: ah ok, thats best imho
MSmits: my 20 depth beamsearch mine avoidance has turned my bot into a color filler
MSmits: it looks like a tron bot :P
MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/451217203
Illedan: 20?!
Illedan: I have a depth of 4 :P
MSmits: well it only considers moves, so it doesnt have much branching
Illedan: Yeah, mine is only moving too
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/f72fcf80-093a-4740-b1ea-ed1c6df3d477
MSmits: I have a beam width of 200
MSmits: the idea of beam search is that you sort by score and drop the bad states
Illedan: hmm
Illedan: nice
MSmits: that way you can get very deep
Illedan: I will look into that
Illedan: :)
MSmits: enjoy :)
Hellfire731: I have corona virus
Hellfire731: I might die soon
MSmits: sucks Hellfire731. Keep at least 1.5 m. away from us
Hellfire731: *cough*
Illedan: Yeah, stay in #world2
MSmits: or #FR
MSmits: :P
Illedan: xD
Swagboy: https://www.reddit.com/r/Zoomies/comments/g2nzgc/sometimes_he_gets_so_excited_that_he_forgets_to/
Swagboy: CSB pod trying to reach the checkpoint
MSmits: someone teach that dog -3vel
NormantasStankevicius: does silence dashing more than 1 help in siilver?
karliso: MSmits Do you think your both will remain at number 1 as other players keep submitting?
MSmits: good question
MSmits: it's very strong as player 1, but it may be weaker than yours as player 2
MSmits: after all, you have the opening book for player 2
MSmits: I dont have it at all
MSmits: only for player 1\
MSmits: my bot beats re curse without any book
MSmits: but against yours it does not, only 45% combined winrate as p1 + p2
MSmits: but thats without *any* book, so it's not fair, because you have one
karliso: I had some ideas about uttt that I wanted to try, you gave me a reason to try them out.
MSmits: good, try them, but be careful about getting too deterministic as player 2. It was real easy to make your current version lose 100% as p2
karliso: Yes, I saw games.
AntiSquid: are you playing ocean of code karliso?
karliso: No
Illedan: MSmits, saying I can download 1 replay vs karli and get 100% win as p2? :D
Illedan: *p1
MSmits: not exactly, he has some variation. Maybe 10-20 different plays
MSmits: also, there comes a point where my bot can take the win without needing any further book
MSmits: if your bot is not good enough, it wont know how to proceed from there
MSmits: my book ends somewhere between 20-30
MSmits: ply i mean
MSmits: the game goes to 40-60 plies
MSmits: but the advantage is great enough at ply 30 or so
MSmits: the same is true for re curse and miarem btw Illedan
MSmits: so if you have a good book, you can copy my bot vs them
MSmits: good bot I mean
MSmits: good bot, copy book :P
AntiSquid: to risk or not to risk submit?
kovi: im not too happy seeing that submit of 2 days ago is better than the latest
pb4: kovi : same here... except that is was 6 days old
kovi: maybe i should trie that as well. 6 days ago i had good winrate vs. you
kovi: actally the problem was jolindien all along
pb4: MSmits : does your beam search guarantee that you don't have only one starting move at the beginning ?
pb4: jolindien is solid
MSmits: not sure what you mean pb4
MSmits: do you mean does it take into account floodfill?
MSmits: I have a floodfill score and a damage probability score
MSmits: and it minimizes that over depth x
MSmits: and maximizes floodfill obv
MSmits: if you mean, does it give a score for movement flexibility to react to opponent, then no
MSmits: I can see the value in not being forced down a narrow corridor
RavenKZP: oh come on... Silver Boss shoot himself and make my bot timeout XD
MSmits: haha, you assume an opponent will never shoot himself?
MSmits: dangerous :)
RavenKZP: well ye but actualy no
RavenKZP: i've go this one... commented, because of it wasnt working perfectly
RavenKZP: and until now it was good :P
pb4: MSmit : beam search keeps only a limited number of possibilties
MSmits: yes
MSmits: but at this depth, there is very little pruning
pb4: if all those possibilities start with the same move, it doesn't matter how deep your search goes
MSmits: very true pb4
MSmits: oh I see what you mean now
pb4: My question basically is : do you have a way to maintain "first move diversity" or do you measure at which depth there's no diversity left ?
MSmits: you mean while filtering, keep some states for each starting move
pb4: Yes
pb4: See for example kimiyuki's Hypersonic code
MSmits: I would bother with that if it was pruning a lot, but it's not really
pb4: I think he has a way to do this
MSmits: yeah, I have a HS bot too, but it handles things differently
MSmits: it has a multi-positional movementstate
MSmits: so the player is at multiple first moves at once
MSmits: let's not get into that though :P
MSmits: my HS bot is a big mess I never want to touch again
MSmits: 2.2k lines i think
NormantasStankevicius: bro
NormantasStankevicius: My code is almost 1k lines
pb4: bro
NormantasStankevicius: and I am pretty much idk what to do besides making a simulation at this point
pb4: my code doesn't compile in time anymore -_-
MSmits: my ooc code is 1800 and still lacking a lot
MSmits: trying to work in a fatality function
MSmits: it's not easy :(
NormantasStankevicius: I would be extremely happy if I leave silver by the end of this competition
wlesavo: i had to rewrite it, that was a pain
MSmits: why rewrite?
MSmits: I would be extremely happy if i make legend, but I doubt it
wlesavo: first version didnt have mines, and was used only when i exactly know the possition of an opponent, i think it was the last improovement to gold boss, after that i broked some tuning and in that crippled condition its doomed to guard the gates of legend :slight_smile:
MSmits: my nemesis then
MSmits: I wonder if the fatality function is enough to get me from rank 20-30 to beating gold boss
MSmits: but I doubt it
wlesavo: with an ok mine avoidance and some luck i guess it could be enough
MSmits: hmm, we'll see
MSmits: today and tomorrow is basically the time i have. I think sunday I will be doing social distanced DnD
MSmits: wonder what that'll be like
Astrobytes: Remote-link DnD?
MSmits: yeah
Astrobytes: Should be a laugh!
tomatoes: fatality pushed me from 50-70 to top10
MSmits: I think maybe I'll roll a bit more critical hits than I usually so :grin:
Astrobytes: lol
MichaelPu: MSmith, I don't have a fatality function, and got past the boss
NormantasStankevicius: Hmmm HMmm Fetality :>
MSmits: MichaelPu any tips you want to share?
MichaelPu: don't let anyone use fatality on you :)
MSmits: great advice :P
MSmits: do you mean you have an anti-fatality check as well?
MSmits: to make sure the opponent can't fatality you the next turn?
AntiSquid: fecality?
MSmits: :poop:
MichaelPu: no, just trying to do well trough the whole game, and not just the last move
MSmits: ah ok
NormantasStankevicius: By fatality, you mean check if you can kill the enemy before he kills, eg. person has 2hp and you know his position so you silence dash to him and kill ?
MSmits: just any way to kill him on your turn
MSmits: there's lots of possible ways to dit
MSmits: do it
NormantasStankevicius: yeah, but I go silence spam
NormantasStankevicius: so it's torpedoes I guess
MSmits: yeah
MSmits: silence spam is of limited use
MSmits: doesn't work beyond a certain poit
MichaelPu: this situation just gets more rare in top gold and legend
AntiSquid: +1 promotion
MichaelPu: when you know the opp position 100%
NormantasStankevicius: yeah, I will need to track my postion aswell, and do it
MichaelPu: when they are on low health
NormantasStankevicius: but what is a good indicator when to silence?
MSmits: no idea, i do it when i have it ready :P
NormantasStankevicius: But let me guess
NormantasStankevicius: You prioritize torpedoes > mines > silence?
NormantasStankevicius: and you try to fill the map?
MSmits: thats about it, i also try to avoid mines
NormantasStankevicius: Okay, I'll need mines
RoboStac: if you self track what the opponent knows you can use that to choose good silences (add lots of options / silence when the opponent has a good idea where you are)
NormantasStankevicius: and if I have no point of placing a mine (aka there is one in range, I'll just silence spam)
GHV: Please share ur suggestions about my contribution...
GHV: https://www.codingame.com/contribute/view/4975741069fa865858680fb1061312a51bdb
MSmits: yeah, good point RoboStac, takes some effort to code that though
NormantasStankevicius: RoboStac yeah, but what am I curious how to predict, cause to me, it's likje couple hundred lines of codes to predict the enemy how to outrun
NormantasStankevicius: would become, what are some good things to do when I know the enemy position?
MSmits: if you have mines, blow them up, if you are near, shoot torpedo, if you know where they are, you also know where they put the mines and you can avoid them
ZarthaxX: getting that legend MSmits?
MSmits: dont know ZarthaxX, it's up in the air
ZarthaxX: lol
MSmits: let's see how sonar works instead of silence
MSmits: I figured that since my silence sucks, i might as well use sonar
wlesavo: MSmits i basically feed my output command to the same tracker with different flag
MSmits: yeah, that's smart coding. Not sure if I can do that with my current code. It's pretty complicated
AntiSquid: oh come on :/
MSmits: what is it squiddy?
AntiSquid: my bot isn't strong enough
MSmits: not yet
AntiSquid: and i am tired of this game
MSmits: I have faith in you squiddy
MSmits: me too
AntiSquid: from day 1, but still tired of it nonetheless
MSmits: I liked it when i was coding tracking and such
AntiSquid: it's not even strong enough to stabilize high and get pushed :/
blasterpoard: I just found a very interesting piece of data about mines that deserves a post mortem on its own xD suddelny a lot of things make sense
MSmits: I'm glad someone can draw life lessons from this game :P
eulerscheZahl: are you out of the contest, MSmits?
MSmits: no, i want to code a fatality function, maybe some self tracking to more smartly use silence and then tweak a bit with ability use and such
MSmits: there's still some room for improvement thats not *too* annoying to code.
blasterpoard: MSmits it's just that a thing I didn't think was important turned out to be the main reason my bot could ever reach top10
MSmits: oh ok
MSmits: do write it up later, you always make these claims that make us curious and then dont explain them during contests :P it's mean!
blasterpoard: and I thought that changing this number the other way would improve the bot
muy31: GH
AntiSquid: about tracking or placement?
muy31: GHV isnt t too eay?
muy31: I like it though GHV
AntiSquid: wish top 20 would play nice and just timeout
eulerscheZahl: as #21 i agree
AntiSquid: i meant gold
ZarthaxX: LOL
NormantasStankevicius: AntiSquid I feel the same, but in silver :(
AntiSquid: what does your bot have so far NormantasStankevicius ?
AntiSquid: maybe there's a quick improvement you could do
NormantasStankevicius: Silence detection (with a glitch), Silence spam, quite a bit of detecting, and torpedo fire
NormantasStankevicius: right now, making mines
NormantasStankevicius: prioriotazing mines > silence spam*
NormantasStankevicius: Next I'll go Silence up to enemy and finish
AntiSquid: and you silence right away? maybe that's something to tweak
NormantasStankevicius: yeah, I am thinking of improving how I silence
AntiSquid: i know exactly what i need to do for a guaranteed improvement
NormantasStankevicius: and move away from enemy if he is not in range and torpedo cooldown > 0, dash away if he in range and torpedo cooldown > 0; shoot and dash away if he is in range, if he is out of range and cooldown = 0, check if I can dash up to him and fire
NormantasStankevicius: else, just spam
idkhow2codee: also check if there are islands on the path
idkhow2codee: aren't*
NormantasStankevicius: well yeah
NormantasStankevicius: right now I have a quick check
NormantasStankevicius: for all locations I can dash to
NormantasStankevicius: but for safety
NormantasStankevicius: I just SILENCE 0
NormantasStankevicius: until I implement it and turn it on
idkhow2codee: I do silence 0 cuz im lazy :p
NormantasStankevicius: I also have a DistanceFill(Floodfill, but to see if my torpedoes can get to it and similar stuff)
NormantasStankevicius: right now I'll do mines
NormantasStankevicius: try to deploy as many mines as I can, then silence spam
idkhow2codee: do you use any path finding algorithm?
NormantasStankevicius: Floodfill
idkhow2codee: oh k
NormantasStankevicius: I have a bit of a randomization kinda
NormantasStankevicius: tries to move in circle
NormantasStankevicius: but if it touches the wall
Nerchio: GOGOGOGO
NormantasStankevicius: starts to move in semicircles
Nerchio: LEGEND IS SO CLOSE
Nerchio: COME ON
NormantasStankevicius: GO GO GO!
idkhow2codee: gl
Nerchio: LET"S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
eulerscheZahl: your capslock seems stuck
Nerchio: IT IS
Nerchio: 10 SECONDS
Nerchio: TO LEGEND
NormantasStankevicius: He is captivated
NormantasStankevicius: he has been trying legend for days
AntiSquid: Nerchio the guy below you is pushing boss back up it seems :p
NormantasStankevicius: perhaps months or years
Nerchio: yesssssss
Nerchio: legend
Nerchio: welcome
NormantasStankevicius: Nice
NormantasStankevicius: !
Swagboy: Wp nerchio!
AntiSquid: :o
Nerchio: such a good submit
eulerscheZahl: congrats
Nerchio: i destroyed the boss
darkhorse64: Nerchio: I can understand how you feel
AntiSquid: great
eulerscheZahl: i still saw you 0.04 below the boss :P
gaha: was it the same code or you're modyfing something
idkhow2codee: GZ
Nerchio: hmm i was working on something else and did 10 submits today ending in top5 usually
AntiSquid: sash too ?
Nerchio: just needed some luck xD
AntiSquid: ya luck is most important
eulerscheZahl: AntiSquid getting lonely :(
tobk: still the same bot as yesterday Nerchio?
AntiSquid: wdym euler?
tobk: congrats, that was hair's breadth
eulerscheZahl: other active chat users going to legend, leaving you behind
AntiSquid: lol
AntiSquid: ya
eulerscheZahl: even zeno turned against you
wlesavo: Nerchio grac
AntiSquid: better legend
Uljahn: some are in silver though :relieved:
Nerchio: i fixed some stuff
Nerchio: small stuff
Nerchio: to be more consistent yesterday
Nerchio: but most was the same
Nerchio: for a good entrance into the league 2-0 vs
eulerscheZahl
Illedan: AntiSquid
https://imgflip.com/i/3x128v
eulerscheZahl: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
AntiSquid: lol
AntiSquid: beat all pokemans
cegprakash: Do I need enemy prediction in wood1 of OOC?
Nerchio: no
eulerscheZahl: i don't even have prediction in legend
cegprakash: it' s not worth it? :O
eulerscheZahl: no idea
cegprakash: that was the next thing I thought of adding
NormantasStankevicius: by prediction, you mean
Nerchio: maybe he means enemy tracking
NormantasStankevicius: guessing where enemy is?
eulerscheZahl: i have tracking of previous turns to estimate the location
cegprakash: yes
eulerscheZahl: but no prediction of future actions
NormantasStankevicius: It's very worth it
eulerscheZahl: tracking is a must-have
NormantasStankevicius: basically you won't get out of silver if you do not counter silence
cegprakash: yeah that's what I mean eulerscheZahl use the history to eliminate non possible positions
NormantasStankevicius: and out of bronze without basic tracking
cegprakash: I currently throw bomb at last known enemy grid
cegprakash: and it's performing worser than randomly throwing bombs
eulerscheZahl: are you playing codejam this year cegprakash?
cegprakash: 1A disqualified yes
cegprakash: when is 1B
eulerscheZahl: sunday
eulerscheZahl: during the night in your timezone
eulerscheZahl: which is why i skipped 1A
cegprakash: night is good time for me
cegprakash: I am a night coder
NormantasStankevicius: >.> can relate
wlesavo: nice blasterpoard, i guess your mine thingy worked
cegprakash: why is Silence called a silence I don't understand
cegprakash: it's just jumping
Swagboy: Silence move
eulerscheZahl: because the opponent doesn't know in which direction you move
cegprakash: direction is known
wlesavo: no
eulerscheZahl: not for silence
cegprakash: oh
blasterpoard: wlesavo it could still be just a lucky submit
cegprakash: okay so that multiplies possibilities by 4
wlesavo: sure, but still
cegprakash: that s***s with each silence used
blasterpoard: it looks like I found a magic number though
idkhow2codee: it multiplies possibilities * 17 I guess
eulerscheZahl: Nerchio at 15 already :o
idkhow2codee: but still if they don't intersect
NormantasStankevicius: silence basically is 13* (except when we get surface, that becomes 17 places he can be after that)
tobk: Next time I write a bot that just moves randomly, then submit a bazillion times until I go to Legend :-P
NormantasStankevicius: ^
NormantasStankevicius: My bot fluctuates between silver 140 and 20
wlesavo: blasterpoard looking forward for your pm :slight_smile:
idkhow2codee: well it is 4 directions * 4 possible new positions thats 16
eulerscheZahl: you can also wait at the current cell
NormantasStankevicius: + 0 idkhow2codee
eulerscheZahl: wait in 4 directions :D
NormantasStankevicius: you can just not move
blasterpoard: wlesavo the funny thing is that there's still a couple of things I need to implement, and they are quite important
MSmits: idkhow2codee it's 3 directions * 4 + 1 for stationary
MSmits: you can't silence in the direction you came from
cegprakash: when u use sonar for 4 steps will all the cells between the current position and the new position will be marked visited?
idkhow2codee: oh k I didnt know
cegprakash: sorry silence
Swagboy: Yes
cegprakash: when u use silence for 4 steps will all the cells between the current position and the new position will be marked visited?
MSmits: idkhow2codee, the reason you cant is because you cant silence over tiles you visited
eulerscheZahl: yes
MSmits: yes cegprakash its in the statement
Scarfield: that is an argument that wont work xD
eulerscheZahl: reading the statement is so overrated
watch some replays and then make wild guesses
idkhow2codee: "(not visiting already visited cells or islands)" right
MSmits: right
Nerchio: btw what is default ai in legend
Nerchio: not worth playing against?
MSmits: also, surface doesn't teleport you to a different cell, just letting you know
eulerscheZahl: defaultAI = the default from the beginning of the contest
wlesavo: blasterpoard i have nothing on my mind, maybe after the contest i will stole a thing or two from pms
blasterpoard: wlesavo I mostly use the speed of C++ to do a lot of time-consuming things... not that interesting
wlesavo: oh well, still interesting to read
kovi: it is so hard to tell what is important and what is not
wlesavo: luck is very important
blasterpoard: it's important to have a good winrate vs kovi
eulerscheZahl: :D
duckquackduck: wish there was a better way to debug rather than printing to console. Even that is limited since you can only print so much data. :(
Very hard to determine if tracking opponent pathing is accurate. I am losing my opponent at some point, no idea where
wlesavo: blasterpoard that was my tactic since silver
kovi: i definitely do better if i dont submit spam. just let other submit (except joli)
eulerscheZahl: offline debugging is the way to go duckquackduck
duckquackduck: is there any guide with tips on how to set it up?
eulerscheZahl: step 1: write all you input directly to stderr so it appears under the viewer
eulerscheZahl: step2 (the hardest one): write something to download the json data for a given replay id
eulerscheZahl: and extract the error stream (you need user authentication to get your stderr)
eulerscheZahl: step 3: write all the error stream into a file on your local disk
rwilson: ;) or go nuts and build your own visualization plugin ;)
eulerscheZahl: step 4: configure your IDE to read the file as input
eulerscheZahl: step 5: breakpoint for your given turn you want to debug
eulerscheZahl: i might write something about it instead of a post mortem. my bot really sucks, not worth writing about it
duckquackduck: oh :)
eulerscheZahl: it takes some time to set it up. especially if you have no experience with web requests
duckquackduck: maybe something to try after this contest :)
eulerscheZahl: this contest was quite long, so i invested some time in tool setup at first
duckquackduck: :thumbsup: yes, I have spend far too long trying to debug by printing stuff to console. wastes too much time
Scarfield: 34 submitting :'(
eulerscheZahl: but only 4 at csb
Scarfield: i will make an alt, prepare a bot designed to win against the wood boss in CSB, but not rank up. Submit some times and lower the boss score, like an hour before this contest ends :p
idkhow2codee: That's a shame that I have just started participating. only 2 days left :(
idkhow2codee: but there will be next contest in may right?
eulerscheZahl: may 7th - 17th
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/contests/spring-challenge-2020
even with a video
Swagboy: duckquackduck You can also manage to do this with simple copy pastes, a bit longer but easier to begin with
eulerscheZahl: annoying if you want to debug turn 100
eulerscheZahl: you need all the history for your tracker
Swagboy: I'm just printing the cin as cerr and use them to emulate the game in local
Swagboy: Maybe different from what you're doing
Swagboy: Because once you have the cin in local, it's easy debugging any turn
eulerscheZahl: no, i do the same. just the way how i extract the cerr to use it locally is different i guess
eulerscheZahl: for me it's ./cg_replay_download <replay_id> and i have it in a local textfile
Swagboy: And then you plug your bot on this textfile and launch it, isn't it?
eulerscheZahl: yes
Swagboy: Ok ok same indeed
eulerscheZahl: but i said that above :P
configured my IDE to use the textfile instead of stdin
Swagboy: Aha yes yes, went quickly over those explanation, bit tired hehe
Swagboy: And the tricky thing for me is that I need to set up a iteration count instead of a timer, otherwise it doesn't act the same local
eulerscheZahl: no problem
i'll go outside now. working from home causes some lack of physical movement for me
ZarthaxX: i need some of that
ZarthaxX: :(
Swagboy: Are you in germany eulerscheZahl ?
eulerscheZahl: you aren't even allowed to go outside alone?
eulerscheZahl: yes, germany
ZarthaxX: just for buying foo
ZarthaxX: food
ZarthaxX: well and ppl take out the dog
ZarthaxX: thats it
eulerscheZahl: a biking trip alone or with those living in your house is perfectly fine here. and taking out your dog :D
Swagboy: I'm there too and I'm glad that the ausgangssperre is way nicer than in France
ZarthaxX: here you are not allowed to go outside with someone to buy food
ZarthaxX: sooo :P
ZarthaxX: it hasbeen like 26 days like this
Nerchio: in Poland you can't go outside anymore if you don't wear a mask
Swagboy: Wow crazy, what if you don't have one?
Nerchio: idk
eulerscheZahl: get creative in making one
Nerchio: well they say anything can be used as a mask even like a scarf ;D
ZarthaxX: ah well here is the same
eulerscheZahl: might come here too, at least for public transportation
Swagboy: Where are you from ZarthaxX?
eulerscheZahl: and shopping maybe
ZarthaxX: argentina
ZarthaxX: is germany stopping the virus already ?
eulerscheZahl: i don't even follow these stats
we had really high numbers compared to other countries. but that might be because of higher testing capabilities
eulerscheZahl: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
reCurse: The most tested country in europe yeah
ZarthaxX: i see
eulerscheZahl: so it makes no sense to just talk about confirmed cases
eulerscheZahl: but now i go for real. want to be back before it's getting dark outside
ZarthaxX: cya sharktoad
AntiSquid: is US gonna nuke china after this is over?
AntiSquid: they love their bombs
ZarthaxX: thought kind of the same lol
reCurse: Fox news is this way -> :door:
AntiSquid: i don't watch any news
Zenoscave: thank you reCurse
anid: Why does this guy have multiplayer CP without any ranks?
anid: https://www.codingame.com/profile/9b6f917d8ba745e1194e9922b5ef3dd67406451
cegprakash: hey anid finally I found u
cegprakash: when did you overtake me in India rankings
cegprakash: how did u beat me so quick out off nowhere
anid: Some time back, Im not exactly 1 guy
anid: a few people use this acc
cegprakash: oh
cegprakash: that relieves me a bit
cegprakash: the best in India still
anid: we each do 1-2 multiplayers
anid: so not really best in India
anid: I only do C4L
cegprakash: I mean I am still
anid: Oh xD that for sure
cegprakash: but I'm always up for a challenge from next gen coders
cegprakash: that's why I keep in touch
anid: Not really a challenge, one guy in our group is pretty good but rest of us are just learning from magus`s document
Beerus: why i am getting timeout when i shouldnt
RavenKZP: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
darkhorse64: cegprakash: the answer is quite simple. Copy/paste bots
Uljahn: is anid == anirudhp?
Zenoscave: probably
darkhorse64: Guys, look at his profile. Guru in one month !
Zenoscave: definitely then
Astrobytes: anirudhp was the cheater guy that euler talks about?
Zenoscave: yes
Zenoscave: Anid we know who you are
ZarthaxX: anid anirudhp, almost same
ZarthaxX: :P
darkhorse64: delete account
123Jango: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnyIreu7vuA
ips07: tati khalo
eulerscheZahl: i'm back
and the original anirudhp had the legendary badge in all languages, so not confirmed
idkhow2codee: but he cheated somehow?
eulerscheZahl: very likely https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/441837790
eulerscheZahl: or https://www.codingame.com/replay/440546640
eulerscheZahl: i guess i could find some more if i would try
Astrobytes: lol, that last one
cegprakash: it's okay to use multis or share accounts but not at the cost of abusing the top 1% leaderboard
eulerscheZahl: and he managed to beat me in CGFunge Prime :cry:
and i think that's a legit score, noone else has that amount of points
eulerscheZahl: the tagline :rofl:
m=m0/?(1-c2/v2) ==> Running makes you fatter
eulerscheZahl: it's funny because it's v^2/c^2 and not c^2/v^2
cegprakash: what is that formula
eulerscheZahl: the ? is a sqrt
eulerscheZahl: that's how the mass changes with increasing speed
eulerscheZahl: it's from Einstein
Nerchio: i feel like i am not as smart as einstein was
Nerchio: but not sure if thats a problem
eulerscheZahl: if you are bored: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_in_special_relativity#Relativistic_mass
NormantasStankevicius: better to read this then panic while watching matches
eulerscheZahl: he wrote "then", not "than" :P
NormantasStankevicius: yeah, I am sweating while watching my bot being murdured :<
AntiSquid: 7k registered, imagine the leaderboard if all participated
NormantasStankevicius: also panicking and seeing more colours than I should
eulerscheZahl: i know that feeling. i even know how to play better as a human in some cases. but no idea how to express it in code yet
AntiSquid: CG would need to hire a lumberjack
eulerscheZahl: the last contest with more players was mean max
but to be fair, it's by far the longest contest except for locam
eulerscheZahl: longer duration = more players joining
WINWINWIN: But most of the new players are at the bottom like me :)
eulerscheZahl: the most important thing is that you have fun
eulerscheZahl: and maybe learn a new thing or two
idkhow2codee: ultimately bot is still better than human(at least bots above wood) though
WINWINWIN: Yes, ty eaulerscheZahl for the awesome contest
eulerscheZahl: my part was the smallest of the 3 creators mentioned
WINWINWIN: K then ty G-Rom and illedan xD
eulerscheZahl: :)
cegprakash: I call all the bots below silver as bots
cegprakash: not humans
WINWINWIN: why?
cegprakash: humans think better
cegprakash: like an AI
cegprakash: than a stupid robot
WINWINWIN: I am a stupid robot! :)
cegprakash: I'm too in OOC
cegprakash: still in wood2
tobk: I don't get it. in the second replay he somehow mirrors the opponent in the very same move, while streaming excerpts from H2G2. But what's with the first replay?
cegprakash: sorry wood1
eulerscheZahl: a German politician called all those bots who used their gmail address to write complains about his internet politics
idkhow2codee: robots are better because of predictions and no possibility to blunder
eulerscheZahl: tobk what are you talking about?
WINWINWIN: Cegprakash, if you got to W1, can you tell me how to improve?
eulerscheZahl: chess?
tobk: the replays you shared half an hour ago
eulerscheZahl: ah
struct: its copy pasted bots
cegprakash: WINWINWIN just move and shoot randomly
eulerscheZahl: it's a beam search with variable depth
tobk: ah, that explains the mirroring
eulerscheZahl: so when time close to 100ms, end search
WINWINWIN: shoot randomly is enough?
cegprakash: yes
eulerscheZahl: for wood it is
WINWINWIN: thanks!
eulerscheZahl: don't shoot yourself
cegprakash: actually I got to wood2 without shooting
cegprakash: I was definitely #6 without shooting
eulerscheZahl: as everyone starts in wood2
eulerscheZahl: congrats ceg
WINWINWIN: xD
cegprakash: sorry wood1*
idkhow2codee: I got wood with pacifist bot
idkhow2codee: wood1*
cegprakash: pacifist?
idkhow2codee: yes just don't attack
cegprakash: like mother therasa?
WINWINWIN: Just noticed ur 1st EulerscheZahl awesome!!!
idkhow2codee: yes exactly
idkhow2codee: but there is no way to get out of the w without predictions and attacking
cegprakash: acctually I think there is
cegprakash: I am going to add safer turns to my bot
idkhow2codee: well but that's just luck then
cegprakash: when I haave multiple directions to turn, turn in a direction with more space
cegprakash: so that we don't suffocate in choke points
cegprakash: this will avoid SURFACE completely
cegprakash: so we remain full health
cegprakash: it's same as Tron
idkhow2codee: u can always get stuck somewhere though
cegprakash: very rare
cegprakash: if u add this
cegprakash: just random shoot + this can take to bronze I'm sure
cegprakash: but I'm cleaning some mess up
cegprakash: so I can reach higher leagues
idkhow2codee: currently im w1 too and I'm trycking to implement predictions
cegprakash: yeah just ignore enemy's silence commands
cegprakash: just track enemy movements and that's a very good way to start
cegprakash: I also noticed wood1 boss always uses SURFACE command on 2nd turn just so he is beatable
idkhow2codee: how I move: well I just move with priority N E S W
WINWINWIN: Cegprakash, how will u use that, u have to beat all of the other bots in the league as well?
idkhow2codee: but sometimes got stuck forever so added to avoid positions where surfaced
cegprakash: that's good idkhow2codee but before doing NESW give priority to the directions with more space
cegprakash: that's what I'm going to add
idkhow2codee: yes that might work
idkhow2codee: god our bots are so pathetic xd
idkhow2codee: where did u started me 2 days ago
cegprakash: started yesterday night
cegprakash: like 3 hours of work so far
WINWINWIN: Wow!
idkhow2codee: nc
cegprakash: my random shooting bot was #64 in wood1
cegprakash: but I added enemy grid tracking
cegprakash: used a lot of Radars
cegprakash: sorry sonars
cegprakash: which is pretty useless..
idkhow2codee: so u just shoot somewhere inside that region?
cegprakash: yes even if he moves away from that grid
cegprakash: I keep shooting there
idkhow2codee: xd
cegprakash: until my sonar tracks him again
idkhow2codee: well that's weird
cegprakash: yes
cegprakash: that's why my rank got low
idkhow2codee: u can see when he got hit though
cegprakash: I didn't add enemy life tracking.. I tracked my life tracking though
idkhow2codee: why
cegprakash: if he hits me I assume he is in my grid and keep shooting my grid
cegprakash: which is pretty bad if he keeps shooting from neighboring grid
idkhow2codee: well that's not bad
cegprakash: :D
idkhow2codee: yes but still
cegprakash: yeah he'll be scared to come into my grid
cegprakash: this grid is mine
cegprakash: until I choke myself
WINWINWIN: after the contest, is there any place to study this multi?
cegprakash: yes
cegprakash: forum
cegprakash: https://www.codingame.com/forum
WINWINWIN: do the top players still write post mortems?
cegprakash: yes
cegprakash: my wood1 post mortem is funny
cegprakash: isn't it
WINWINWIN: :)
lxnn: I'm a bit late to the game. Question: if you move and surface in the same turn, do you move and then surface or surface and then move?
blasterpoard: lxnn depends on which you write first
lxnn: Ah
cegprakash: if u move why do u want to surface?
cegprakash: don't surface and lose ur life
idkhow2codee: orders works consecutively
idkhow2codee: they activate after each other
idkhow2codee: work*
cegprakash: it makes sense in the case of SURFACE followed by a MOVE.
cegprakash: but MOVE followed by a SURFACE is never good
idkhow2codee: yes
lxnn: Right, thanks for that
anid: But if you inevitably have to surface?
lxnn: why I ask is that it makes a difference to tracking the opponent which comes first, I think
cegprakash: u have no other option in that case anid
cegprakash: just make sure u don't get into that situation
cegprakash: at least after reaching wood1
cegprakash: yes ofc lxnn
idkhow2codee: so it would be wise to keep dir of enemy in case enemy used surface
idkhow2codee: silence*
idkhow2codee: Do u guys write code that would be considered clean?
Swagboy: Rather, for a month of contest, you need clean code
Nerchio: i started less than 10 days ago
Nerchio: not a real programmer
Nerchio: i started messy i continued messy and i ended in a mess
idkhow2codee: :joy:
idkhow2codee: bot logic is hard to maintain
duckquackduck: You can only place a mine or move, right? Can't do both?
idkhow2codee: in fact I write such bot for the first time and everything from scratch
idkhow2codee: @Nerchio what do you mean by not real programmer?
Nerchio: it means this is the first app i wrote that is longer than idk 50 lines
Nerchio: that might be why my bot is 2600 lines of if statements
idkhow2codee: :joy:
idkhow2codee: is there a limit?
idkhow2codee: to size
Astrobytes: 100k chars iirc
Nerchio: i have 87k
idkhow2codee: but if you use setup properly external editor then you can include other files so does it count?
Nerchio: idk can you?
Nerchio: i have everything in 1 file
idkhow2codee: me2 :p
idkhow2codee: yes it is I saw guy doing it on stream
Astrobytes: If you have a script to combine all source files then that's cool, but the single file you submit on CG cannot exceed that limit
idkhow2codee: hmm so he combined them using script
Astrobytes: Yeah, there's one or two python scripts out there for C++ (or write your own), some for Java, C#
idkhow2codee: one more question: Who handles execution of code? and what's the maximum usage of ram?
idkhow2codee: just curious
Astrobytes: https://www.codingame.com/faq
Astrobytes: And some more info about execution environment here:
https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/languages-update/1574/95
eulerscheZahl: easy to write such a bundler on your own if you don't do fancy stuff in your code
Swagboy: If you use C++, just compile with -E -P
Swagboy: it gives you preprocessing output
eulerscheZahl: my c# bundler, which i run as a post-build event in my IDE:
eulerscheZahl: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/7a251267-e56f-45b5-80c2-b882f7fb7aca
Swagboy: I should use a real IDE on day
eulerscheZahl: far away from brilliant but does the job for me
Swagboy: What's yours eulerscheZahl?
eulerscheZahl: MonoDevelop
eulerscheZahl: i'm on linux, otherwise it would be visual studio for C#
Zenoscave: I use vscode
Astrobytes: Never consider running a cheapo win box just for VS euler?
eulerscheZahl: no, i'm fine with monodevelop
eulerscheZahl: i installed VS code as illedan wanted to try liveshare for hashcode
eulerscheZahl: didn't work that well. whenever i scrolled, his code duplicated
Astrobytes: VS Code has a liveshare? Didn't know that
Astrobytes: Oh lol, works well then
eulerscheZahl: so he had the same block of lines about 10 times :D
Astrobytes: hahaha
eulerscheZahl: and then my VS code crashed
Astrobytes: Seems legit :D
eulerscheZahl: and illedan was like "wtf is that?" (we spoke on discord the same time)
eulerscheZahl: for those not on discord: "by the way, there will be prizes for this challenge. Same as for previous challenges"
Astrobytes: ffs you literally beat me to it
eulerscheZahl: haha
Astrobytes: jeez
eulerscheZahl: but you saw it on discord before me
Astrobytes: 1 keystroke away!! Yeah, and STILL you beat me
kovi: top10 was sorted by country
eulerscheZahl: how do you sort countries?
by population? alphabet? average life expectancy?
kovi: well french and japan grouped together
eulerscheZahl: but your hungarian friends aren't in top10 anymore
kovi: true :(
eulerscheZahl: and now i have to gain 6 spots to monday
Nerchio: so i can win a tshirt in this contest if i do well?
Nerchio: :D
eulerscheZahl: top20
AntiSquid: kovi -> the last hungarian
AntiSquid: coming to the cinemas this winter
Zenoscave: I'd watch the kovi movie
eulerscheZahl: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSSEAg41bQIRAF6vMRBtgq2L3kcIP8egxQb6nNIsKvw08D3X57n&s
eulerscheZahl: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_Xzug3XsAAyGi1.jpg
Zenoscave: I want that shurt
Zenoscave: shirt
eulerscheZahl: and there's a 3rd design to choose from
AntiSquid: i have it
eulerscheZahl: quite new, a rubiks cube
Zenoscave: Is the rubiks cube melting?
Nerchio: damn need to improve my bot then
Nerchio: i want a tshirt too :D
AntiSquid: are there prizes for this contest?
Nerchio: i think so
Zenoscave: Yes anti
eulerscheZahl: not melting, bottom part is twisted
Zenoscave: look on discord
AntiSquid: oh
Astrobytes: Yes squid, Thibaud casually mentioned it on discord
Nerchio: "by the way, there will be prizes for this challenge. Same as for previous challenges"
AntiSquid: lol but no mention on the site?
eulerscheZahl: a bit like this one but different (old design) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnaTzkeW8AAxiWQ.jpg
AntiSquid: Today at 19:40 - by the way, there will be prizes for this challenge. Same as for previous challenges
AntiSquid: good he mentioned it early during contest
eulerscheZahl: 20:40 in his timezone
Nerchio: yea but maybe they didn't know if they can offer any prizes so they didnt say it
Nerchio: consider it a nice gesture
AntiSquid: maybe
eulerscheZahl: to be fair: last Sunday he didn't know himself if there will be prizes
Astrobytes: Yeah they said at the start they weren't sure
Zenoscave: Thanks thibaud
Zenoscave: sincerely
eulerscheZahl: and they still weren't till recently
so a nice surprise, no reason to be mad for the late announcement
AntiSquid: well nobody played for prizes anyway
AntiSquid: i am not mad though
eulerscheZahl: true, CG is always a big fun
Zenoscave: I did. Been aiming for the shot at a shirt from the get go. Top 20 has been m goal this whole time
eulerscheZahl: you are trying this for > 2 years
Astrobytes: ZenosCrave
eulerscheZahl: that's dedicatoin
ZarthaxX: and me? lmao
Zenoscave: I started in 2013
Astrobytes: Shhh ZarthaxX
ZarthaxX: :(
Zenoscave: late 20113
Zenoscave: tr -s 1
Astrobytes: He's from the future :o
ZarthaxX: lol
Nerchio: last hour of the contest everyone will be submitting
Nerchio: the servers will crash
NormantasStankevicius: ahhh worked many hours, reworked a good portion of my strategy, cannot get out of silver
eulerscheZahl: he's trying longer than CG even exists :o
NormantasStankevicius: How do you counter the insane amount of silence predictions?
Zenoscave: I'm not sure of the year then
Astrobytes: I started 2015 sometimes
Astrobytes: *sometime
Zenoscave: ekul was my first account. now it smurfs
ZarthaxX: and your deleted zeno
eulerscheZahl: what was your first contest? mine was hypersonic
Nerchio: ocean of code
Nerchio: back in 2020
Zenoscave: I don't remember
ZarthaxX: lmao
eulerscheZahl: those were times
Astrobytes: lol
ZarthaxX: crazy times
ZarthaxX: *oh wait*
eulerscheZahl: i still remember as if it was just yesterday
Astrobytes: :D
Nerchio: i destroyed my finisher move code it will be a pain to fix
eulerscheZahl: when i joined, there were 2 contests running at the same time. Hypersonic and The Accountant
Nerchio: meanwhile kovi has such clean finisher from every position
ZarthaxX: the only contest i missed :c
Nerchio: or seems like it
lhm: Does the contest end today?
eulerscheZahl: i skipped TAC as well. exam time
eulerscheZahl: monday
Astrobytes: I didn't notice contests when I first joined up, then was away for ages until I remembered to come back
lhm: I feel like I should spend more time on it
eulerscheZahl: but you can keep playing it in the multiplayer section
lhm: Thanks eulerscheZahl
eulerscheZahl: just without prizes
ZarthaxX: and with copypasters
lhm: Im not playing for prizes and will not get any anyways :)
ZarthaxX: u are lvl 32
ZarthaxX: wtf
eulerscheZahl: i'm copy-pasting the whole time.
IDE -> Website
Website -> diff tool ("what did i just break")
ZarthaxX: lol
lhm: I do not understand your point ZarthaxX
eulerscheZahl: he says you are good and know how to code
ZarthaxX: thanks for the translation
eulerscheZahl: or that he hasn't seen you before and now he's wondering how he could miss a lvl32 player
Zenoscave: I think the second
ZarthaxX: and also that
lhm: Well, good enough for gold but so far away from legend
ZarthaxX: u can still try
lhm: I did, went gold
ZarthaxX: mor
ZarthaxX: e
Zenoscave: MORE
Nerchio: in this game if you are top10 gold i suggest just spam submitting until you get it xD
lhm: You did not miss me, im not talking much and im here for less than a year :)
lhm: If im top 300 gold, spam might not be enough haha
ZarthaxX: ah ok
ZarthaxX: lol
Zenoscave: 08/13/2015 @ 7:08pm (UTC) Is my best guess one when I joined
Zenoscave: 04/10/2018 @ 10:37pm (UTC)
Zenoscave: New estimate
AntiSquid: when were you born?
Zenoscave: one of those seems wrong
Zenoscave: i estimate 1995
AntiSquid: time of the day
AntiSquid: in seconds
Zenoscave: No idea
AntiSquid: what's your linux clock
Zenoscave: wasn't there
ZarthaxX: you rejoined Zenoscave when you deleted your acc :)
Zenoscave: ohhhhhh
Astrobytes: You weren't present at your own birth Zeno? :P
Zenoscave: not mentally
Zenoscave: I do hear stories though
Astrobytes: lol
Zenoscave: Countries rejoiced and leaders wept
Astrobytes: :D
AntiSquid: he was in his mother's womb for 20 years and after that a portal opened and he walked out into this world
Nerchio: do you think if i submit enough times i can get top5 in legend
Zenoscave: no
Zenoscave: not possible Nerchio
mlomb: how much is *enough* for you
Nerchio: i believe statistics are in my favour
Zenoscave: Have you played against top 5?
Zenoscave: I'd say otherwise if you haen't
NormantasStankevicius: why does my broken code work better than better one?:cry:
Zenoscave: 2nd in C#
Zenoscave: !!!!
NormantasStankevicius: nice!
Astrobytes: Who's 1st? Illedan?
Nerchio: legend people are boring
Zenoscave: mhm
Nerchio: almost everyone in C++
ZarthaxX: euler
Zenoscave: nope
Zenoscave: euler is 3rd ;)
ZarthaxX: ah u are 28
ZarthaxX: what did u do
ZarthaxX: lol
ZarthaxX: illo
Zenoscave: i had a break instead of a continue
ZarthaxX: lmao what
Zenoscave: it was a major issue
Zenoscave: probably have a few more
Zenoscave: Nerchio top 20! GZ
Nerchio: i was actually top13 i think after first auto-commit in legend
Nerchio: after getting
Nerchio: to legend
Astrobytes: He got to 14th or 15th on his gold-beating submit Zeno
Nerchio: i can end anywhere between top10 and top 50
Nerchio: i dont consider my bot to be very good
Astrobytes: gz for that Nerchio btw :)
Nerchio: ty
Zenoscave: find the bugs. I have more faith in your top 5 with this knowledge
Nerchio: i think everyone including myself underestimate this if-monster
eulerscheZahl: above Zenoscave again \o/
blasterpoard: imho everyone underestimates what will happen during the last few days
Zenoscave: BAD EULER
eulerscheZahl: i don't, saw it often enough
blasterpoard: we'll have at least 5 new contenders for top10
eulerscheZahl: dropped from top10 below 50 at hypersonic
eulerscheZahl: (to be fair, that was an 8 day contest)
eulerscheZahl: i expect blasterpoard to improve a lot on the weekend or even monday morning
eulerscheZahl: i don't think that karlis o is hiding and will join last minute. he became first in onitama yesterday
eulerscheZahl: and i expect myself to qualify for codejam round 2
Astrobytes: Since he gave a flat "no" as to whether he'd participate you're most likely right
Zenoscave: reCurse joining when? ;)
Zenoscave: sorry for ping
eulerscheZahl: wasn't online when that happened
Zenoscave: must ask
eulerscheZahl: recurs e refused to give a statement
Astrobytes: Was talking with Smits iirc euler
Nerchio: hehe
Nerchio: its funny to play vs GiB
AntiSquid: karl said he doesn't play
Nerchio: my number of agents and possible locations are exact match with this just 1 turn difference ofc
Nerchio: with his*
Nerchio: i guess its the same with everyone nvm
Nerchio: xD
Nerchio: but its the first time i noticed this after i fixed too many objects i was creating with silence
Zenoscave: Is anyone else getting timeouts in first turn?
gaha: happens once in a while
Zenoscave: 50% of my losses ...
gaha: sometimes my timer says I finished in 0.03s but I get a timeout anyway
AntiSquid: check discord regarding this Zenoscave
Zenoscave: just did Anti
gaha: what is there on discord on it?
AntiSquid: the Loch Ness monster unrefutable evidence
AntiSquid: it eats your sub
Zenoscave: Server timeouts from compilation
AntiSquid: irrefutable *
gaha: huh, compilation
gaha: my python code doesn't know what it is
duckymirror: I got an email yesterday about a new school leaderboard and the "CodinGame Spring Challenge". What confuses me is that it doesn't have the usual CodinGame design. Is it official or just spam?
eulerscheZahl: official
duckymirror: Okay, thanks
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/contests/ocean-of-code/top-schools/global
duckymirror: I don't like clicking links in these cases :grin:
duckymirror: I mean links in emails
eulerscheZahl: not even linked, you have to copy-paste it from the email
eulerscheZahl: once i got a spam email from someone imposing as CG
duckymirror: Yeah
eulerscheZahl: i guess they got my email address from github. at least it's not the one i use on CG
duckymirror: Then it's probably better to ask
eulerscheZahl: there was a forum post about it
AntiSquid: do you need to participate in a CG contest to get your degree at Wroclaw ?
Astrobytes: euler *posing as/impersonating
eulerscheZahl: sorry, me no English
Astrobytes: lol, if I was talking German I'd expect people to correct me ;)
Zenoscave: genau
AntiSquid: idk, depends on the chat
AntiSquid: you might get hdf and deine mudda is something instead
eulerscheZahl: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKEKukDycMo
Nerchio: i've heard they have this contest as an additional thing for an AI class or something in Wroclaw :p
Astrobytes: lol euler
Zenoscave: Apple pen
Zenoscave: haven't heard that in a while
MSmits: never had this before:
MSmits: munmap_chunk(): invalid pointer
AntiSquid: new achievement unlocked then
MSmits: yeah!
AntiSquid: time to go out and party MSmits
MSmits: no party before i get my fatality check working
Astrobytes: deleted an invalid pointer?
MSmits: coded all of it, now debugging it
MSmits: maybe
Astrobytes: Or changed it's address and deleted
MSmits: can this happen when you popback an empty vector?
Nerchio: how lovely i dont have to deal with this
Astrobytes: Yeah I think so
eulerscheZahl: it's c++, everything can happen
Astrobytes: Ask re Curse
MSmits: thats probably it then
eulerscheZahl: i wouldn't be surprised if you manage to physically delete your computer
MSmits: i recently started using vectors for things
MSmits: I'll try eulerscheZahl
MSmits: no promises
blasterpoard: anything can happen with vectors... I once saw a vector destructor cause a double free
MSmits: whats a double free?
blasterpoard: you free the same memory twice
Astrobytes: Trying to free the same chunk of memory twice
MSmits: oh
MSmits: it's extra free then
Astrobytes: That would be nice, but no
MSmits: what happens when you do this?
ZarthaxX: die
blasterpoard: if you're lucky
Astrobytes: Bad Things™
blasterpoard: you might as well corrupt the heap and randomly crash 200 lines later
MSmits: hm ok
ZarthaxX: the pointer could point to some new memory you allocated too MSmits
ZarthaxX: imagine the posibilities
ZarthaxX: :D
blasterpoard: it was especially fun when it happened in the destructor and I spent several hours looking for it
ZarthaxX: imean the same address reused
MSmits: horror stories
MSmits: this is why we should all be using Rust
MSmits: rust means peace in Dutch
MSmits: it would give us peace
Astrobytes: These are the fairy tales that seasoned devs tell their kids at night
MSmits: nightmares
SapphireLight: yeeeah
blasterpoard: but C++ gives us speed
blasterpoard: and bots that we can test against in IDE
MSmits: ah yeah, it was the vector. I forgot to add something to it earlier and i did remember to remove it after (recursive function)
Zenoscave: my german teacher insisted i know the word frommfor some reason
Zenoscave: fromm*
MSmits: whats that
MSmits: why does it have an extra m ?
Nerchio: feelsbad to code when my ide has slower typing with this many lines idk
MSmits: bug in the language?
Astrobytes: It's like devout or pious
Zenoscave: yes
MSmits: ah
MSmits: vroom
MSmits: in Dutch
MSmits: with a proper amount of m's
MSmits: that is
MSmits: 1
Astrobytes: But that extra o
Astrobytes: :P
MSmits: the extra o makes you pronounce it as froam, one o would make it soudn like from
Astrobytes: I know. It just makes me laugh
MSmits: lol ok
Astrobytes: stroopwafel
MSmits: right that :)
MSmits: how much Dutch do you know
Counterbalance: it's better than english where any vowel can be pronounced as any random vowel depending on the word
Astrobytes: That's about it
MSmits: ah ok
Zenoscave: jag
MSmits: Counterbalance agreed
MSmits: also dependent on the dialect
Astrobytes: Yes Counterbalance, agreed
Zenoscave: Agreed
MSmits: Australian, Scottish, Irish, British etc.
Astrobytes: English is fking mental
Astrobytes: It makes a modicum of sense up to a point then just goes a bit haywire
MSmits: most languages probably have features like that
Zenoscave: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/680736db-a84d-4c83-a3f0-c49a3be3dc2b
Astrobytes: Of course all languages have exceptions, English just does it... differently :D
MSmits: i think the fact that CG thinks you're spamming says enough Zenoscave
Counterbalance: heh yeah Zenoscave
Astrobytes: spot on Zeno
Zenoscave: That is one of my favorite quotes about the language
Counterbalance: Dutch-english vowels: i is pronounced a, a is pronounced as e, e is pronounced as i
MSmits: very confusing and funny to hear when Dutch people barely speak English
Counterbalance: the ebc
Astrobytes: This also changes when you're Scottish and trying to learn languages
Astrobytes: Because we say our vowels very differently from the traditional English
Counterbalance: I'm wondering whether I should resubmit..
Counterbalance: boss has 3pt lead
Zenoscave: feking right you do
Astrobytes: fecking is Irish tho
Astrobytes: :D
Zenoscave: I feel ashamed
Zenoscave: i'll leave now
Astrobytes: I have Irish relatives, it's ok
RavenKZP: Some bot is Gold is not random?!
Zenoscave: same legend
LouysPatriceBessette: Hello all I have an issue with no save/submit changes about the nickname, bio and city location in the settings. Is it me? (lol)
ZarthaxX: Counterbalance i was 3 points behind boss and magically promoted 12 hs later
ZarthaxX: but i wouldnt try that
ZarthaxX: you dont have zeno anymore there spamming for you :)
Counterbalance: I already waited 12h.. was at rank 21, now at 4
ZarthaxX: oh amazing lol
ZarthaxX: just improve then mmh
Counterbalance: yeah I have a 10-15% winrate improvement ready.. I think I'll go for it
ZarthaxX: gogogogo
Counterbalance: not sure I like being bottom legend though ;)
MSmits: I just passed 2k lines =/
ZarthaxX: are you insulting me?
ZarthaxX: :thinking:
MSmits: it's odd how these seemingly simple games make you code so much
Nerchio: i have 2700
Counterbalance: im at 3300.. had to remove code twice already to remain under 100k
Nerchio: lets measure our length guys
Nerchio: counterbalance the longest so far
Zenoscave: 1060
Counterbalance: lol
Nerchio: so short?
Nerchio: zenos :x
Zenoscave: can we measure by submits instead?
gaha: what, is there 100k characters limit, not lines?
MSmits: yes gaha
ZarthaxX: lol
ZarthaxX: dont even try Zenoscave
MSmits: you know you can make 3k lines fit on 1 line right
Nanosplitter: ^
gaha: will have to remove comments soon xd
Counterbalance: yeah, i have some comments too - bad practice
Nerchio: using comments in your code?
Nerchio: wtf!
Nerchio: what is this magic
MSmits: only contest where i had to do that was code a la mode
ZarthaxX: eulerscheZahl ded?
MSmits: sleeping probably
Counterbalance: only 24k gzipped.. if they counted gzipped size, it'd be much better
MSmits: yeah
Nerchio: 89200 chars ;/ getting close
MSmits: you can do a minification
Counterbalance: gunzip - - | <<EOM; g++ - > /tmp/Answer.exe && /tmp/Answer.exe
MSmits: just dont make it unreadable
MSmits: thats not allowed
MSmits: fatalityMap -> fatMap etc.
Astrobytes: *fatalityMap -> f
Nerchio: lol
YannT: 26k chars
YannT: maybe that's what's wrong, need more code
Nerchio: my stuff is actually very verbose but i am bad at this
AntiSquid: don't think my code is readable
Nerchio: i have countAllPossibleEnemyLocations()
Nerchio: xD
Nerchio: method
YannT: I'm up to 650 lines now , obviously it's not enough
AntiSquid: i can barely read my code
YannT: // TODO: Add more line returns for better ranking
MSmits: thats pretty amazing YannT
MSmits: to do that well with so little code
YannT: well it's not all me, kotlin is also a very dense language
MSmits: oh yeah
Counterbalance: grep TODO main.cpp | wc -l
37
MSmits: as in, I feel dense when trying to use ity
AntiSquid: no i think it proves most bots might be doing useless sorting and searches
YannT: val positionsCount = possibilities.distinctBy { it.last() }.size
YannT: in C++ that's like 100 lines right there
YannT: :p
YannT: my sonar handling (when getting sonared, or sonaring) is also a one liner
YannT: possibilities.removeIf { (it.last().sector() != sector) == sonarResult }
MSmits: probably
Zenoscave: shouldn't that be != sonarResult?
Zenoscave: ah != sector nvmd
MSmits: what really bloats my code is all those times I do the same thing for 4 directions
Swagboy: Hard to cut on those tho
MSmits: yeah I know it's possible
MSmits: but havent done it, too much work also
MSmits: and causes bugs, i already know that
YannT: I actually wrote a kind of bool table to make sure I got that one right Zenoscave, I wasn't confident at all with doing the logic in my head, that's like a double to triple negation with the removeIf Oo
Zenoscave: right!
TheHotTopHat_917b: how to print something?
YannT: CTRL+P
Astrobytes: print("something")
TheHotTopHat_917b: ty
KobeL: Streaming over at: https://www.twitch.tv/saintplaysthings
Doing some code clashes, feel free to hop in and say hi!
Nerchio: btw the numbers of moves you can do is kinda crazy
Nerchio: silence w 1 move nws
Nerchio: silence w2 move nws
Nerchio: etc
Nerchio: for finishers i mean
MSmits: I just finished my fatality function and it was not easy indeed
wlesavo: grac
MSmits: well it might still have bugs. Havent been able to test silence yet, but move/trigger/torpedo seems to work
Tetano: hi guys, how can i use the debugg comand?
MSmits: the trick is to filter for torpedo and mine locations, dont just allow triggering every mine and firing torpedos everywhere
MSmits: I seem to be losing a lot of games on my first submit test, so I am still bugged
MSmits: nah it was unlucky, so far I see no bugs. Fatality is working. I just use abilities badly , so i never seem to have a silence ready to dash with
MSmits: definitely seems to have helped, but it's not a miracle cure. I need more to get legend
AntiSquid: ladder is random MSmits
AntiSquid: your current submit might as well rank 10-20 lower, that's how random it is
Nerchio: i have a question
Nerchio: you can do a bfs for torpedos for the whole map in the first turn
Nerchio: but how would you store it?
MSmits: i know AntiSquid, but before i improved this I was 30-50
MSmits: so pretty sure it helped
AntiSquid: i tell you after contest nerchio if someone else doesn't do it first
MSmits: damn I should do that
AntiSquid: MSmits same bot ranked #12 and #45 for me just saying
MSmits: sure
Nerchio: i mean its not that important is it? :p
AntiSquid: it saves time Nerchio
Nerchio: kk np
MSmits: yes
Nerchio: i dont really need it but its annoying to write bfs(all the variables for it) everywhere xD
darkhorse64: nerchio, store it at each cell of your grid
MSmits: I don't have a grid, but I could just make an array of target maps
MSmits: targetMaps[225]
darkhorse64: I have 10 flavors of bfs in my code
Nerchio: array of arrays
Nerchio: so lame :(
MSmits: I don't bfs
MSmits: I floodfill to get the torpedo map
MSmits: 4 floodfill iterations
MSmits: on a uint16_t[15] array
darkhorse64: floodfill = bfs for me. Is there really a difference ?
MSmits: bfs stores parents to track back a path
MSmits: you're just coloring a map with a floodfill
MSmits: not looking for any specific destination or path
MSmits: it's not a big difference
darkhorse64: OK. I have also a dijkstra
MSmits: but in my case it is, because my floodfill is on a bitboard, I wouldnt be able to bfs like this
Astrobytes: floodfill can be bfs or dfs or whatever, I use bfs. bfs with no target destination
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/5e42ba67-4e5b-448e-a17e-c5ce84a030ed
MSmits: floodfill a map in all directions once
MSmits: do this 4 times and you have your torpedo map
darkhorse64: Apart from the point of view of compactness, is there a real advantage to bitboarding ? More speed to resist silence spammers ?
payroll-beats: Did anybody solve the order of succession puzzle
MSmits: not sure darkhorse64, I've used bitboards so often now with those boardgames, it feels more natural to use them
payroll-beats: Im a noob just want to know if I need to understand the Tree data structure
MSmits: sorry, dont remember that puzzle
darkhorse64: my bot is based on STL sets and can handle several thousands paths
payroll-beats: Thank you
MSmits: what are STL sets?
MSmits: I can handle 40k or so I think? Not sure, i dont time out anyway
darkhorse64: Standard Template Library
MSmits: oh
Zenoscave: #include <set>
MSmits: I think right now I need to use some strategy on using abilities
pb4: darkhorse64 : there's a convenience factor with bitboards
MSmits: yeah
darkhorse64: Why don't you timeout ? You reset paths ?
MSmits: what kind of situation should make me timeout?
darkhorse64: Too mzny paths
darkhorse64: *many*
darkhorse64: 40k is huge. That's why you don't timeout
MSmits: I do have a pruning function that worked superbly well when I was ignoring mines, i still have it, not sure if it ever kicks in now
darkhorse64: "convenience factor"
darkhorse64: ?
MSmits: or if it is bugged
pb4: calculate hit probability
MSmits: I do that
pb4: (presenceMap & boomMap).popCount() / presenceMap.popCount()
MSmits: yeah I am doing this wrong I think
MSmits: I am counting every possible location as 1
MSmits: not counting how many times it occurs
MSmits: btw, i do this right in mine avoidances
MSmits: just not in torpedoing and triggering
MSmits: so there could be 2 locations that each occur once and 1 location that occurs 100 times
MSmits: and I would not shoot at it
MSmits: because 1/3 chance
darkhorse64: Funny that when I code a board game, bitboarding is turned on in my mind but not for other games
pb4: I just use those masks everywhere
MSmits: 1/4 of my code is helper functions for clearing maps, doing & operation on two maps, or |= operation etc.
Beerus: does anyone used minimax?
MSmits: not here
MSmits: I use beamsearch for mine avoidance. A recursive brute force search for fatality checks
MSmits: and tracking is a big thing also, processing opponent orders and eliminating impossible states
MSmits: I still dont use minimax in any real sense on CG... I always gravitate to mcts or similar
Beerus: can you go legend with good tracking?
MSmits: not with just good tracking no
MSmits: you need more
MSmits: mine avoidance, some strategy on ability use
Beerus: can you go legend without mine avoidance
MSmits: doubt it
darkhorse64: no
Beerus: you cant check for every possible mine position
Beerus: its dangerous to surface if you do
MSmits: btw darkhorse64, you can favor sonar use if you see your pathcount rise too much
MSmits: i dont do that, but it makes sense
MSmits: Beerus you record positions from which mines were laid for each possible state you are keeping
darkhorse64: I have tuned my bot to use less silence in order not to timeout myself !
MSmits: oh, selftracking
MSmits: i dont have that yet
MSmits: its high on my list
darkhorse64: You need it. Do it now
MSmits: first I will fix my hit probability function. I think gold boss beats me every time by shooting better
MSmits: I would not know how to use the information currently
Zenoscave: I broke something
MSmits: need to think about that also
darkhorse64: This is where I am weak
Beerus: why use hit probability?
Beerus: hit if your are sure or not
Nerchio: zenos all good
Nerchio: free points
Zenoscave: You hit too infreqently if you don't
Beerus: if you hit and miss opponent detects you
MSmits: if you have a 80% chance to hit and you miss, you pretty much know exactly where he is next turn
MSmits: unless silence
MSmits: there is some luck involved. 80% is good odds
AntiSquid: CG poker multi :thinking:
Zenoscave: I accidentally turned of silence
AntiSquid: and your sub was playing guitar
Nerchio: lol
MSmits: man i am getting tired, i's are starting to look like j's
AntiSquid: i have i2, j2 and k and k2 in there
AntiSquid: and idx es
AntiSquid: and i have p for player
Nerchio: i had 4 nested loops
Nerchio: i , j and then w , z
Nerchio: the master of loops
MSmits: heh, I remember my first real program. I was coding vba in excel to automatically create excel files, I had, i,j,k,l,m,n,io,p,q,r I think
AntiSquid: i have 5 for my silence function
Nerchio: :D
MSmits: I returned to this program 2 years later to rewrite it and I had no idea what it did
Nerchio: hey i found your loop do you want it xD
AntiSquid: lots of 4 for nested loops
AntiSquid: it's mainly the structure that i use i guess
icecream17: I lost against this person when submitting. So I sent it to the IDE..... https://www.codingame.com/replay/451563264
MSmits: it might go different in the ide when you hit play again
MSmits: if people use random
MSmits: or if people use full calculation time and it hits the timeout limit
MSmits: they cut short their search and there is a different result
rwilson: icecream17 ;) unlucky random initial placement ... fun
MSmits: oh didnt look at the game, yeah thats something to fix :0
MSmits: I just floodfill all my starts
MSmits: if any have less than max, I dont consider them
rwilson: nice ;) better than NOTHING ;) which i think a lot of folks still get by with purely ... random(x,y)!=isLand
MSmits: i tried other ways
MSmits: didn't help
MSmits: I'll try again I guess, might depend on meta
icecream17: If less than 2 water next to it, not available water space
icecream17: Might eliminate a bit more than neccesary but good enough....
MSmits: I did a short of weighted floodfill with nearby cells weighing more than far away cells
MSmits: that way it prefers movement space
MSmits: I am top 10 gold :)
MSmits: fixing hit probability helped
AntiSquid: gn8 folks, i'll try to dream my bot into legend
MSmits: gn AntiSquid
MSmits: thanks pb4
Nerchio: bye
MSmits: that little hint about hit probability saved my ass. Very close to legend
rwilson: anyone had luck adding some voronoi like features yet?
MSmits: not me
Nerchio: MSmits my floodfill prefers squares closer to otehr squares
Nerchio: :p
MSmits: kinda depends on how you define voronoi
Nerchio: works similar probably
MSmits: 5 wins in a row vs gold boss on legend. Rank 2 now
MSmits: on gold i mean
MSmits: come on!
MSmits: so close
rwilson: nice ;)
MSmits: 2 more wins vs gold boss and I'm out
MSmits: need some luck
rwilson: or a submit bump from someone ;)
MSmits: yes or that
MSmits: crap, not gonna make it
YannT: yo weighted floodfill!
YannT: I don't have that, now that's an idea :)
MSmits: didnt work for me the first time i tried
MSmits: but my bot had other problems then
Astrobytes: Like a Dijkstra?
Nerchio: i tried weights also
Nerchio: but i didnt implement that properly
Nerchio: so i gave up
Nerchio: xD
YannT: I'm thinking just manhattan distance is enough
YannT: close squares more valuable
YannT: it should work
MSmits: YannT a question for you then
MSmits: Is it better to start in open spaces?
pb4: YannT : don't even try it
pb4: -_-
YannT: doesn't work pb4?
MSmits: maybe that means it does :P
YannT: MSmits: I think as long as you don't screw yourself, placement doesn't matter terribly much
MSmits: I only need a small boost, I am just below gold boss
YannT: I benched around that, don't think it has any impact as long as you don't pick the obviously bad placements
MSmits: what are obviously bad places?
YannT: lakes
YannT: and tunnels
Nerchio: MSmits i was below gold boss 20 times before i advanced :D
MSmits: ah ok
MSmits: Nerchio I am 0.42 below gold boss
MSmits: thats not much
YannT: middle of the biggest sea tends to work best because it makes initial detection slower
MSmits: I'll try it then
YannT: but the impact as opposed to starting in the corner of the biggest sea or something is really minimal
icecream17: That should be another type: Detection Avoider
YannT: another thing is since everyone has a "start in the middeish of the biggest sea" type algo, you will start close to opponents more often than not (if not on the same square)
YannT: so your bot has to be good at fighting otherwise all your games will be short :)
MSmits: ah i see
YannT: it can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on if you're best at torpedoing or building mine castles in your corner
MSmits: I have no idea what I am best at
Zenoscave: YannT what's the secret to fights?
Zenoscave: simu?
icecream17: I start in the 7th available space (excluding 1-width oceans)
MSmits: oddly specific
icecream17: Fights... torpedo & charge, charge, charge & torpedo
YannT: Zenoscave: I have an eval + some rules, but I'm sure most of the top bots wrote some kind of fighting minmax
Zenoscave: fighting minimax :/ no time for that unless I do it tomorrow
icecream17: It usually starts around the top-middle
YannT: if both positions are known, you can "solve" the fight
icecream17: No... theres ilence
YannT: I didn't do it though, but I'm sure others have
YannT: not usually
Zenoscave: no silence once a fight starts up here. too many charges needed
YannT: once silence has been burned, you have 10ish turns of just charging torpedo, moving and shooting torpedo
YannT: and usually the positions are known at that point
icecream17: Nah, half the time opponent escapes
YannT: so you can "solve" the fight
YannT: yeah I'm not saying it for handling a driveby
Nerchio: it's definitely solvable
Nerchio: but too complex
Nerchio: :D
YannT: but you'll notice most games end with an exchange of torpedoes over 10ish turns, and usually the winner is decided by like one turn (i.e the loser needed just one turn to charge and win)
YannT: so it's often kinda close
YannT: and you can optimize this and turn a loss into a win
YannT: maybe with a smart move, or siomething
MSmits: sounds like a multi-turn fatality check
YannT: that's what it is
MSmits: I already had some problems just getting the 1 turn working :P
YannT: you just have toi minmax moves and torpedoes with both positions being known
MSmits: what about silence and mines?
YannT: silence is burned at the beginning of the "fight" usually
MSmits: hm ok
YannT: then it's just moves and torpedoes until someone dies (or escapes)
icecream17: there should be a statistics thing, like a "death by mine, torpedo, error, and surface" chart
YannT: I don't know of bots that don't charge torpedo as a first priority
icecream17: I think I charge mine too early
icecream17: Like, after 7 no-shots or so I charge mine....
Zenoscave: lucky submit
MSmits: whose?
Zenoscave: mine
blasterpoard: YannT about the combat sim - this is what it looks like when my bot in development fights my leaderboard bot:
blasterpoard: www.codingame.com/replay/451575664
vbplaya: I'm confused on how to properly use mines
blasterpoard: the mine was lucky, but it's still quite good
Zenoscave: what turn look ahead do you need to see before you get improvement blasterpoard?
YannT: blasterpoard: basically mines killed you so this is not really a good demo ;)
blasterpoard: YannT I meant the first 2 torpedos + silence
YannT: I see :)
YannT: I know siman and kovi have a thing like that because they use SURFACE when it makes no sense sometimes in combat
YannT: it must be because they combat minmax establish that with access to that tile they'll win for sure or something
MSmits: why do they use ot?
MSmits: ah
Astrobytes: Freedom of movement
YannT: like surface to sidestep and maybe then fire a torpedo before moving so you get that extra charge that lets you win
YannT: things like that
Zenoscave: does all of legend recalc? or just top 20
icecream17: How to use mines? Place randomly is pretty good - I haven't seen anyone use actual pattern and strategy with it
MSmits: top 100 I thought?
YannT: here's a trick with mine
blasterpoard: https://www.codingame.com/replay/451578099 here's another then YannT
blasterpoard: moving to the same square as opponent so he can't hit me
blasterpoard: that's advanced enough I think
YannT: if you place them in such a way that one one laying position can pontentially have laid 2 mines
YannT: it can't be removed on trigger :)
YannT: I didn't implement this but I always thought that could be a good idea to screw with the opponent :p
MSmits: it can be removed on 2 triggers
YannT: yes
YannT: but on one trigger, you have to keep both, or guesstimate something, either way it's not ideal
MSmits: well.. I ended below boss again
MSmits: with my start in the middle policy
MSmits: with a worse rating, slightly less success, but not significant
Febrin: Nice MSmits I see u are second
MSmits: yeah
Febrin: What have u implemented today
Febrin: I am still fighting with smart finisher
MSmits: fatality and better hit probability
MSmits: smart finisher is a lot of work
YannT: I'm just about to test your weighted floodfill idea :)
MSmits: doesnt do anything for me, hope it helps you
Febrin: How do you hi smart?
Febrin: Kind of probability heat map?
MSmits: when i said smart finisher i just meant the kill shot
vbplaya: I guess what confuses me about the mines is that they don't trigger when the sub goes across it.
MSmits: hitting smart would mean counting all possible states and getting a probability for each tile
MSmits: then hit the tile with the highest expected damage
MSmits: before I had each possible tile counting as equal (as long as the opponent could be there)
MSmits: now I also take into account the number of states I have on that tile
MSmits: so positions that occur more often have a higher probability.
icecream17: I take each possShoot and have an array h for each. Each opponent position life lost = h++
icecream17: Special things like "original" array and "corners / middle" bonus, and decrease greatly if shoot myself....
ZarthaxX: MSmits that doesnt seem like it could be right
ZarthaxX: mhm
MSmits: what do you mean
ZarthaxX: well depends on tracker i guess
ZarthaxX: nvm
MSmits: yeah
YannT: MSmits: it's interesting I'd say
YannT: it gives me a more zigzagish type of movement
MSmits: huh... the weighted floodfill was only supposed to be used for selecting the start location
MSmits: what did you use it for
YannT: calculating space after move :)
MSmits: oh ok
MSmits: well that works too
YannT: that way it likes to zigzag more
YannT: which is usually good
MSmits: zigzag is good?
MSmits: you dodge torpedoes that way?
YannT: you more around in a more "compact" manner which tends to be good
YannT: for minimizing ennemy detection, and staying more in your "territory"
MSmits: ahh ok
YannT: I'll bench it :)
MSmits: yeah
YannT: 1.0 - (distanceTo(start) / 50.0).coerceAtMost(.5)
YannT: I but kinda random numbers that look pretty :p
MSmits: thats important
YannT: before the value of a given square was just 1.0
MSmits: if the numbers look crap, then the bot is crap
MSmits: I like 8 especially. It has good symmetry
YannT: multiples of 5 and even numbers are the best obviously
MSmits: mmh I agree
YannT: anything else just looks wrong
MSmits: I never did well in a contest where I had constants ending with 3
MSmits: just fyi
YannT: it's exactly like how you'll never put your TV's volume to like "17", that would be insane
MSmits: in my case my wife would kill me so yeah
YannT: you'll make it work on 15 or worse case scenario 18
YannT: it's not good :(
MSmits: ah well, another thing to take off the list
YannT: I'll let it run more in case it's bad luck but not looking good :/
MSmits: who are you running it against?
YannT: top5
MSmits: ah ok
YannT: I usually bench around 40-50% against that test set
MSmits: I see
icecream17: 3978 minutes left for the contest! Less than 4000 minutes
MSmits: less than 3979 even
MSmits: taking a break while waiting for submit. I think I'll be trying some constants tomorrow in different submits. There must be one lucky combination in there somewhere
YannT: constant tuning doesn't seem to have a lot of impact on this game
MSmits: i ended at rank 2 below boss 3 times now
MSmits: it doesnt need to have a lot of impact
YannT: just wait to be pushed it shouldn't take long then ;)
MSmits: that works too
MSmits: I'll be quite happy if I reach legend
YannT: I'm not very worried for you ;)
MSmits: I am :P
MSmits: just one more day basically
MSmits: sunday wont have much time
Nerchio: idk i submit and win some matches but i am at 47 all the time :(
icecream17: 75th in silver =)
Nerchio: nice
Nerchio: gogo gold
icecream17: The 'Ɑ' character messes the website up a little (copy paste it)
struct: What do you mean mess?
Zenoscave: 20% winrate on my last 20 matches
Zenoscave: RIP
rwilson: :(
DanTheMan832: I can't make it to gold :(
