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toctou: because it high level

toctou: language

TheAtom: C++ isn't really high level >_>

TheAtom: In fact, the reason *why* there are no core dumps is because it *isn't* a high level language

Ducknaro: raga

Ducknaro: i study python

SharagaPKS: Э бля. Пендосы. А я знаю что вы дрочите!\

Default avatar.png SilentLlama_fb: вы пэдоры



wlesavo: ping Bob MadKnight reCurse

struct: ping struct

struct: Do you need something wlesavo?

wlesavo: well these russian boys are being mean

struct: They are probably gonne


toctou: :relaxed:

wlesavo: struct oh, didnt notice it was half an hour ago

MadKnight: hey hey struct how's your bot ?

struct: Still not done

MadKnight: why so long ?

MadKnight: u just need to wrap stuff into a vector

struct: ezpz

struct: Where is everyone Automaton2000?

Automaton2000: one thing at a time

ThunderbirdOne: everyone's home deu to COVID#19

MadKnight: only Automaton2000 is out there

Automaton2000: the more i look at it

MadKnight: hmm why is there Automaton2020

MadKnight: hihi ThunderbirdOne

TheAceOfToasters: Thought my college classes were gonna be postponed/online due to Corona, but it was infact a different college with the same name like a thousand miles away

MadKnight: rip

ThunderbirdOne: hiya MadKnight

MadKnight: how's your c# ThunderbirdOne ?

ThunderbirdOne: pretty decent? I think?

ThunderbirdOne: going backwards though, current project is still .NET 4.5 >.>

ThunderbirdOne: so many nice things i can't use

MadKnight: how big is your job's project ThunderbirdOne ?

ThunderbirdOne: let's just say i'm at belgium's biggest payroll provider atm :p

ThunderbirdOne: so... BIG

MadKnight: how many projects in solution ?

Default avatar.png AtekahHafeez: ktaeah69

ThunderbirdOne: 11

ThunderbirdOne: but we've got a ton of dependencies we also maintain

MadKnight: and the client code ?

MadKnight: WebClient ?

ThunderbirdOne: this is MVC with jquery :p

MadKnight: rip

ThunderbirdOne: yeah

ThunderbirdOne: team is pretty old too, so they're very anti new stuff

ThunderbirdOne: so GIT, DevOps, Angular...

ThunderbirdOne: you really have to push hard to get stuff like that done

ThunderbirdOne: still runs on a DB2 database too

MSmits: i'm sitting here in a room with 60+ students

MSmits: someone sneezed just now

MSmits: oh and another coughed

**MSmits ducks

Astrobytes: Not wearing your hazmat suit? :P

struct: wtf schools still open there?

MSmits: nope, it would freak out the students

Astrobytes: :D

MSmits: yes struct

struct: And you have 10x more infected

dbdr: rip

struct: Here there are 70 cases

Astrobytes: Still open here too

ThunderbirdOne: school closing here starting monday

struct: and everything is closing

MSmits: we have thousands infected

struct: 614 confirmed

dbdr: probably much more

struct: but yes

dbdr: takes time to be detected, if ever

dbdr: 2 weeks before symptoms I think?

MSmits: I suspect 100k at least

ThunderbirdOne: approx. 11 days incubation

struct: WTF

Astrobytes: 2-14 days yep

struct: really?

MSmits: well in china they say 100k infected, but it is millions for sure

ThunderbirdOne: we are royally late on doing something about it

dbdr: sounds reasonable

MSmits: you cant test everyone and most have mild symptoms

dbdr: actually China did much better measures than other countries

Astrobytes: Nobody took it particularly seriously until recently, at least in Europe

ThunderbirdOne: "it's just a flu"

ThunderbirdOne: riiight

Astrobytes: The eastern asian countries have experience with containment

ThunderbirdOne: they've all had SARS and shit

Astrobytes: yeah, SARS, MERS all that

MSmits: scientists took it seriously

MSmits: but who listens to those huh

Astrobytes: Yeah, quite

ThunderbirdOne: science is overrated

ThunderbirdOne: :p

Astrobytes: As a career, scientific research is overrated. Ego-driven, money-driven nonsense mostly


ThunderbirdOne: just write lots of papers to keep the funding coming

struct: I also read that 50% will get infected is this true?

dbdr: it's very possible

ThunderbirdOne: some countries even project up to 70%

ThunderbirdOne: it's not very lethal though

ThunderbirdOne: some people even carry it without any symptoms

dbdr: probably most do

dbdr: they could test a random sample of the population to know better

Astrobytes: More lethal than 'flu

dbdr: but not sure if it has been done

Astrobytes: 'cause of the similarities in symptoms it's hard to distinguish, also can't realistically test that many people

struct: Well im staying home

Astrobytes: I've no choice in the matter :P

struct: Why?

ThunderbirdOne: same here... client is still holding on to "everything is fine

Astrobytes: I'm quarantined

Astrobytes: 'flu

ThunderbirdOne: I got to work in about half the time it normally takes me lol :p

ThunderbirdOne: so that was nice

struct: I guess I quit the bartending in the right moment

Astrobytes: Well, patient zero was in November last year...


struct: origin?

struct: China?

Astrobytes: Yeah

ThunderbirdOne: 55 year old man in Hubei

ThunderbirdOne: or whatever the province is called


Astrobytes: Yes dbdr, that's what I plan to do as long as I'm feeling well enough :D

struct: I'm still at AVX...

Astrobytes: That should keep you going

struct: At least it doesnt feel like im totally wasting my time

Astrobytes: time spent learning is never wasteful

struct: I had to switch back to ubuntu

struct: VS compiler does some weird stuff

Astrobytes: wrt?

struct: its either VS or me

MadKnight: are u also a studio ?

MadKnight: StructStudio

MadKnight: or wait what are u talking about

Astrobytes: you crack me up sometimes Maddy

Default avatar.png enzoROD: Hello there

Default avatar.png enzoROD: Is this chat global?

MadKnight: yea

Default avatar.png enzoROD: nice

Uljahn: nah it's just world-wide

Default avatar.png enzoROD: XD

struct: like function performance would skyrocket if I passed the parameter by reference

struct: but on linux had no change

struct: Didnt matter if it was by reference

dbdr: did you look at the asm?

struct: I dont know asm

struct: So I did not

dbdr: it can be useful if you want to get serious about performance

dbdr: like using avx :)

MadKnight: Astrobytes did u try to use AVX too ?

MadKnight: just like struct

dbdr: you don't need to be able to write asm, just read it, learning bit by bit what comes up

Astrobytes: No MadKnight, I've done some reading on it though

struct: Yes but I always have the same problem

struct: I always try to early optimize

struct: Without having working solution

dbdr: oh yeah, write something working first

dbdr: then optimize the 10 lines that actually matter

struct: How do I check for cache misses?

ThunderbirdOne: pre-mature optimisation is really a waste of time

ThunderbirdOne: although a lot of famous programmers call "performance" a feature :p

struct: I guess Ill need to learn how to use valgrind

struct: or anyone has any other tool to recomend?

MadKnight: ask agade

MadKnight: on discord

wlesavo: robostac is comming for you dbdr :slight_smile:

dbdr: yeah, saw that

dbdr: some competition, good!

MadKnight: dbdr is willing to be coming for u back robostac

MadKnight: improve your improving

dbdr: by the way, I did a test wlesavo

dbdr: 46 validators: min=292 avg=316.90 max=337 92 validators: min=301 avg=316.71 max=333

dbdr: I divided the scores by 2 in the second case for easy comparison

dbdr: actually I don't tree the N=1 case specially, I should

dbdr: more noise than needed

wlesavo: hm, i would say it is convincing enough

RoboStac: not sure my improving can be improved much

kovi: nice one robo

dbdr: RoboStac what's your story with Rust?

RoboStac: given it's just the same code as before but with actual performance instead of trying to make debug rust work

dbdr: ah yes

dbdr: are you Rust-curious? :)

dbdr: or using it much already?

RoboStac: yeah, I'm messing with it a bit

dbdr: how is it so far?

RoboStac: did advent of code with it, and my number shifting was rust

dbdr: nice

dbdr: I started 1 year ago for previous RAIC

RoboStac: I like it a lot, but it's hard to justify giving up the performance for

RoboStac: I guess I should try it somewhere where it gets properly compiled so that doesn't matter as much

dbdr: performance is pretty good with --release

dbdr: essentially on par with C++

MadKnight: didn't they enable optimize in rust when submitting ?

RoboStac: they do for multi's

dbdr: only in area

RoboStac: not for optims

dbdr: arena

dbdr: I send a compile binary here

dbdr: compiled

dbdr: I have my own messy hack

dbdr: but should be usable as well

dbdr: it's a bit more tricky to fix in size because the C/C++ stdlib is installed on the host, while the rust one has to be compiled in

dbdr: *to fit

dbdr: wlesavo: score for N=1 is always 5 right?

RoboStac: yeah, I considered trying to send the binary but it was a couple of megabytes so it seemed unlikely I'd get it down to the correct size

dbdr: did you stip it?

dbdr: strip

RoboStac: not at the time, but just tried that and it is still 240k

dbdr: then it can be compressed :)

dbdr: Agade recommends I think

wlesavo: dbdr right, 5 it is

dbdr: cool, running a new test

dbdr: 200 1: 5.00 2: 5.03 3: 4.95 4: 5.20 5: 5.72 6: 6.27 7: 7.19 8: 8.17 9: 9.39 10: 10.50 min=299 avg=317.12 max=340 0.19/s

dbdr: seems I got lucky :)

dbdr: unless the fixed response on turn 1 is more favorable than the average one

wlesavo: could be so, considering its 2/8 and 3/7 b/c for L=10

MadKnight: sooo i watched feminator 6

MadKnight: it's just remake of terminator 2 but with the evil terminator guy having like infinity number of abilities but he uses them only when he can't kill anybody with them

reCurse: Definitely not what I first had in mind

Astrobytes: giggity

MadKnight: and the arnold terminator who got called Carl is now a family guy

Astrobytes: They should have left it at T2. Milking it as per usual.

MSmits: I did like one thing

MSmits: the liquid terminator around the old-style terminator

MSmits: it's a nice idea

MadKnight: with weird black teeth?

MSmits: i have no comments about the teeth

MSmits: why call it feminator btw, there were dudes in there too

MSmits: carl, the liquid terminator and I assume it's terminator skeleton thingy... 3 dudes!

MSmits: terminator 3 also had a female terminator

MSmits: and a Arnie

MadKnight: producer said they would never endanger actors and other guys so every action in the movie is 3d

MadKnight: even simple jumps

Astrobytes: Quantum Termi's next, Fermionator

MSmits: what would 2d actions look like?

MadKnight: like Automaton2020

MadKnight: Automaton2000

Automaton2000: i cant get it to work with

MadKnight: director or producer i dunno who he is but he looks like avatar aang

MadKnight: with his weird blue tattoos

MSmits: cool

MSmits: if I wanted to get tattoo's, they would be weird and blue also

MadKnight: and looked like avatar's arrows ?

MSmits: or just, all blue

MSmits: like.... the genie in Aladdin

MadKnight: avatar MSmits

MSmits: fine avatar

Astrobytes: lol ffs

MadKnight: physics teacher avatar

MSmits: speechless :notes:

MSmits: well another day survived in school

MadKnight: gj

MadKnight: now go do your avatar duties

MadKnight: and improve your bot

MSmits: what are they

struct: How do you know you survived?

MSmits: which one?

MadKnight: CSB ofc

MSmits: how does anyone know they are alive?

MadKnight: struct is gonna get your smitsi with his AVX

MSmits: that would be cool

MSmits: I'm just finishing up langtons ant

MSmits: getting it to work i mean

MSmits: I have 2 params I will fit and if it seems i cant improve it further I will move on to the next multi

MadKnight: MSmits are u gonna try to make a NN eval() ?

MSmits: nah

MSmits: I dont think i would enjoy it that much

MSmits: I mean out of interest I will of course make a NN at some point, now that I am teaching CS.... but I prefer to know what my bot is doing exactly

MSmits: and i like to apply strategy to board games

MadKnight: MSmits do u think u won't know that? NN just generates a super fancy math function based on inputs to return eval value

MadKnight: is like return x*3+y*4+a*11

Astrobytes: Maddy, you spend so much tiem extolling the virtues of NN, yet I don't see you writing one for any multi?

Astrobytes: *time

struct: Write a multi MadKnight

MSmits: MadKnight, you wont know what the numbers mean....

struct: CSB v4

MadKnight: MSmits but u can know that it priorities A over B

MadKnight: just visualise your NN MSmits

MSmits: but not why

MSmits: you try to visualize deep learning

MadKnight: why -> because of experience

MadKnight: just visualize deep learning MSmits ezpz

MSmits: maybe show us the way instead of telling us the way :)

MSmits: write a NN for a multi

MSmits: then write up an article telling us how you did it

MadKnight: pb4 already did it

MadKnight: just read his article

MSmits: pb4 didnt really. That article isnt written for someone who knows nothing of NNs. It's written for people who know their stuff

MSmits: you write one for NNoobs

MadKnight: then make a NN that predicts XOR operation MSmits

MadKnight: FreexXx started that way too

MSmits: i got other things to do atm :)

MadKnight: XOR NN is just a few neurons MSmits u can even draw this NN on paper

MadKnight: or just find a tuto about XOR NN

MSmits: ok

MadKnight: they explain everything about how XOR NN works

MSmits: ttyl, my train is arriving

struct: MadKnight gogogo make tech io tutorial on NN

MadKnight: ezpz

MadKnight: don't they have one already ?

MadKnight: u wanna join me today evening struct ?

struct: join on what?

MadKnight: on making a tech io tuto on NN

struct: I have no NN knowledge sorry

69razer69: hey

69razer69: what is NN

MadKnight: don't worry i only need some phrasing and texting from u struct

MadKnight: NN is neural network

MadKnight: struct u will also learn NN while doing that

69razer69: u mean the structure of persceptron

69razer69: perceptron

MadKnight: a whole neural network

tehHacker2000: hello everybody how yeh doing

69razer69: so yeah where is that ?

MadKnight: where is what

69razer69: i think there is a NN course

69razer69: or what

MadKnight: on tech io ?

MadKnight: about a XOR NN ?

reCurse: Why don't you do it instead of telling others to do it

MadKnight: do what?

MadKnight: the tuto?

MadKnight: but i'm already going to do it

MadKnight: i just invited struct if he wants

MSmits: let us know how it goes MadKnight

MSmits: dont have time for it myself atm, but that doesnt mean I'm not interested

MadKnight: u wanna check my tuto MSmits ?

MSmits: if you have a link, I can bm it

MSmits: but I dont speak russian

MadKnight: sure don't worry it won't be in russian

MadKnight: but i can give u "NN in python in 11 lines" MSmits

MadKnight: even now

MSmits: ok


MSmits: thanks

MSmits: that's cool also because it is python, I can use it in class maybe if it is really that simple

MadKnight: they use matrix multiplication in there

MSmits: mmh yeah might be a bit out of reach for most of my students

MadKnight: just draw them a pic of NN

MadKnight: a few neurons

MSmits: i should learn it first. I like to be way ahead of what I teach

MadKnight: show them what is multiplicated by what

MSmits: maybe over the summer

MadKnight: multiplied

MSmits: hey reCurse, how far can I get with NN's over a summer vacation of 6 weeks ?

MSmits: if I just know the basic theory before I start that is

MadKnight: u can beat pb4 at CSB ez

MSmits: I'm not doing that

MadKnight: i'm using that to compare distance

MadKnight: u can go that far

reCurse: Weird question

MadKnight: the big problem u will need time to learn is how to make NNs learn faster

MSmits: not really, you started from nothing, not too long ago, right?

MSmits: was it a year or so?

reCurse: jan of last year

MSmits: yeah

reCurse: I'm just not sure what kind of answer you're expecting

MSmits: just trying to find a realistic goal

MadKnight: oh so that's what u wanted

MadKnight: > I'm not doing that now i see what u meant

eulerscheZahl: is there any known issue about broken links?

reCurse: Took me around 3 months to achieve CSB from nothing

reCurse: So extrapolate however you want

eulerscheZahl: link to puzzle not working, 404

MadKnight: MSmits NNs only predict stuff they don't do stuff

MSmits: hmm ok, but thats while working right? You were not 3 months off from work

reCurse: No

MSmits: but I guess you're also much faster than I am

MadKnight: MSmits try to find a problem of prediction stuff from other stuff

reCurse: But I dedicated most of my free time there

MadKnight: of predicting* stuff

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: MadKnight I dont think I'll actually use it for CG

MadKnight: i'm not talking about CG MSmits just find any kind of problem to solve with NN

MadKnight: where u need to predict or detect

reCurse: Just find a nail for this hammer

reCurse: zzz

MSmits: I would like to make maybe some simple examples for teaching. Machine learning is part of the optional curriculum for CS

MadKnight: XOR is the easiest example

reCurse: Then stick to the classics

reCurse: No xor sucks

reCurse: MNIST is easy

MadKnight: xor is 2->2->1 neurons

MSmits: I need something a bit flashier than XOR even if it is simplest to understand

reCurse: xor is uninteresting for entry level

MadKnight: AND ?

MadKnight: 2->1

reCurse: It's not the 90s anymore

reCurse: MNIST is ridiculously easy to get working

MSmits: I like the number recognition problem. Is that MNIST?

reCurse: And it's easy to understand why you can't do it easily by yourself

reCurse: Yes

MSmits: ah ok, yeah I want to do that

reCurse: There's also a billion examples around it

reCurse: So it's a no brainer to teach

MadKnight: i have a tuto on number recognition with a really nice explanation and demonstration of each hidden neuron in the network

MSmits: well link me that too then :)

MSmits: thanks reCurse

reCurse: Or if you want to be fancier

MadKnight: and a nice visualisation

reCurse: There's also mnist fashion

reCurse: For recognizing clothes

reCurse: A bit more fun

MSmits: yeah, sounds cool

MSmits: i mean not for me, clothes dont interest me one bit, for the students I mean

reCurse: It's not about interest

reCurse: But it's a more interesting problem

MSmits: ahh ok

reCurse: You can imagine recognizing clothes to be harder than numbers

MSmits: depends on how bad the handwriting is I suppose

reCurse: It's not just about that

reCurse: But some smarter people could think of extracting a skeleton and do analysis on the resulting spline

reCurse: Well with clothes it's not that easy

MSmits: I see

MadKnight: u can still extract outline

MadKnight: spline is weird kind of outline

reCurse: sigh

reCurse: Anyway

MadKnight: do u understand the basic idea of neurons/perceptrons MSmits ?

MSmits: i know the basic idea yes

MadKnight: i mean the logical idea

MadKnight: not the maths

Uljahn: you mean conceptual?

MadKnight: ye

MadKnight: each neuron in each layer predicts some value or % probability of a single thing based on neurons and their single things from the previous layer

69razer69: hey whats the ideal of

69razer69: i see playgrounds and so on i dont get it

MadKnight: to learn something

MadKnight: they teach u to do something

MadKnight: just go to tutorials

69razer69: about NN there a great book called make your own neural network writen by tariq rachiid

Uljahn: btw Mad do you really have the link to that tuto with a nice visualisation or were kidding?

MadKnight: it's in russian and it's somewhere on habr

MadKnight: but i lost the link

Uljahn: ah nice

MadKnight: just try to find it by keywords


MadKnight: haven't seen this one

Uljahn: there are too many of them :(


MadKnight: MSmits just use google translate

BenjaminUrquhart: codingame is officially broken in safari

BenjaminUrquhart: :clap:

BenjaminUrquhart: or wait

BenjaminUrquhart: it's broken here too

BenjaminUrquhart: chrome

BenjaminUrquhart: "TypeError: Cannot read property 'infos' of null"

arkwaw: Same here , 404 on bot programing games

MadKnight: [CG]Thibaud

[CG]Thibaud: yes, we're aware. Sorry, we're on it

tutubalin: best introductory article to Machine Learning is this:

tutubalin: also available in Russian and Portuguese

BenjaminUrquhart: you can get into the game IDE by visiting directly

arkwaw: thanks

Uljahn: tutubalin: good one

Uljahn: MadKnight: but it's just a translation of a video which is in english: "But what is a Neural Network?"

[CG]Thibaud: should be fixed

Uljahn: it's working now, thanks [CG] team

BenjaminUrquhart: [CG]Thibaud the details tab for practice puzzles still doesn't preview for me (multis work though)


Uljahn: ctrl+f5?

eulerscheZahl: where is my shrine BenjaminUrquhart?

Default avatar.png brando2:

BenjaminUrquhart: Uljahn that output is from refreshing with cache disabled

**eulerscheZahl confirms the null puzzle

eulerscheZahl: but the relevant stuff is working fine

Uljahn: which puzzle are you talking about? give me the link

BenjaminUrquhart: any solo, tested with

Uljahn: i've tested some community and classic ones in ff, no error found so far

BenjaminUrquhart: chrome's just bad then

struct: They are in the proccess of removing puzzles so we have more code size for multies

BenjaminUrquhart: ah yes

Uljahn: good to know

Uljahn: one multi is enough, csb with 100Mb code size limit :smiley:

struct: you spelled Yavalath wrong

Uljahn: BenjaminUrquhart: there are a lot of warnings in the developer console but they are ignored in ff i guess, so the details tab is working as intended

BenjaminUrquhart: Uljahn what I have is a straight error

struct: hmm

struct: its a bit buggy to me

struct: I need to press details

struct: to see puzzle description

struct: But besides that everything works

BenjaminUrquhart: exactly

Uljahn: i though the details tab is one shown on the results tab :thinking:

Uljahn: yep, landing pagw details shows blank for me too

Uljahn: *page

Ducknaro: hi

BenjaminUrquhart: hi

tobk: struct What did you mean, removing puzzles for more code-size in multis? Purging puzzles and solutions from their servers to have more size for submitted code for the rest?

BenjaminUrquhart: I think he was joking

darkhorse64: He has a self-destruct sense of humor.

eulerscheZahl: :D

tobk: In my defence, we are well past the parody inversion point at this time...

Astrobytes: Hah. Sadly very much on point.

eulerscheZahl: dilbert? here we quote xkcd!

Astrobytes: lol

eulerscheZahl: schools are closed here in bavaria now

Astrobytes: In the UK the strategy is "let everyone get infected and hope they develop immunity" . . .

tobk: in that case:

eulerscheZahl: to be fair mortality rate is pretty low - at least for the younger generation...

eulerscheZahl: to me it feels a bit exaggerated, a normal flue can be deadly too

Astrobytes: Higher than 'flu.

Astrobytes: Though true infection numbers are unknown, so could easily skew the lethality rate

darkhorse64: Look at Italy

Garneek: mars

eulerscheZahl: :it:

eulerscheZahl: margherita color :pizza:

eulerscheZahl: basilikum, cheese, tomato

Astrobytes: NB: The UK is the *only* country pursuing this strategy

eulerscheZahl: so we can tell if it was wise for us to perform a lock-down in hindsight

eulerscheZahl: you are like the placebo group of a medical experiment

tobk: Astrobytes is that parody now or is that really your strategy? you know, after Brexit...

Default avatar.png JBM: i heard the us was pretty close to that

Astrobytes: Essentially they don't mind sacrificing between 10's of thousands of people up to potentially 1.1 million. And hope it doesn't mutate

Astrobytes: tobk don't get me started! :D

darkhorse64: UK people are resilient. If our government behaves like that, there woukd have alreadty been a revolution

eulerscheZahl: i don't want to be the politician who decided that, if the strategy backfires

Astrobytes: Resilient? Apathetic

eulerscheZahl: french people know how do revolt with burning cars and all that

dbdr: burning cars in 1789? :)

darkhorse64: It's the first step. After, we burn palaces and cut heads

Astrobytes: Tuesday - riot, Wednesday - strike, Thursday - burn effigies, Friday - party, Saturday - riot :D

Default avatar.png JBM: was about to say mostle that (dbdr)

tobk: kind of like a nation-wide measles party...

dbdr: Headline: "Boris Johnson won't be tested despite UK health minister contracting coronavirus" UK really chose clever leadership /s

eulerscheZahl: burning horse carriages

Default avatar.png JBM: lovely ambiguity

Astrobytes: As a UK citizen I can't even make excuses. I didn't vote for him. Shrug.

dbdr: did you vote at all?

Astrobytes: Yes.

Default avatar.png JBM: him? wait, i'm one cycle late

eulerscheZahl: neither did we vote him

Astrobytes: For the Scottish National Party.

dbdr: cool, Astrobytes!

Astrobytes: As I'm Scottish.

eulerscheZahl: your profile implies that

Default avatar.png JBM: you'd be allowed to have multiple parties

Astrobytes: Yes, thank you euler :P

darkhorse64: Do you have a programming cat ?

darkhorse64: I mean the kind that steps on your keyboard

eulerscheZahl: mine sometimes discovers shortcuts that i wasn't aware of

tobk: you mean besides the shortcut over your keyboard?

eulerscheZahl: :D

Astrobytes: Yep, I have 2 in fact

Astrobytes: They like to perform what I refer to as Monte Carlo Tail Searches

Astrobytes: They press keys and knock stuff off my desk with their tails which I then have to search for

miszu: I just finished my MCTS in C++. It runs slower than my Java code. How is that possible haha

eulerscheZahl: poor implementation

eulerscheZahl: e.g. passing an array as a copy instead of reference?

Elioh: eulerrr

Elioh: what is ur thought about going into the data science field ?

miszu: my 2D arrays are actually vector<vector<Square>>

miszu: but yeah, I need to verify what am I passing by value and what not

Default avatar.png icecream17: what am i doing?

Astrobytes: And you've got the required pragmas mszu?

Astrobytes: miszu

miszu: what you mean by pragmas?

Astrobytes: #pragma GCC optimize("Ofast","unroll-loops","omit-frame-pointer", "inline")

  1. pragma GCC option("arch=native","tune=native","no-zero-upper")
  2. pragma GCC target("avx2")

eulerscheZahl: i really can't give you advice on that Elioh first it really much depends on you (knowledge, interests, passion to get into it)

eulerscheZahl: second i'm not in that field myself, can't tell much about it

Astrobytes: Something like that miszu

Astrobytes: We need a C++ pragma button in the chat

miszu: oh boy. I have no idea about that world.

dbdr: AutomatonFAQ

miszu: I am C++ beginner

eulerscheZahl: reminds me of another student at university he defined a lot of shortcuts to write text blocks for certain scenarios

Astrobytes: Stick it at the top, try it, then lookup GCC compiler optims

eulerscheZahl: AutomatonFAQ would even be a useful bot

Astrobytes: Yeah, it would

eulerscheZahl: who can do the hosting?

miszu: but wait, I thought you guys use your own compiler. I can write my compiler options when I submit my code?

eulerscheZahl: no

Astrobytes: hence the pragma directives

eulerscheZahl: but pragmas are different to compiler flags

eulerscheZahl: they only apply to your own code

eulerscheZahl: so STL (like vector) will still be slower than with -o3

Astrobytes: But it's a huge improvement with the pragmas

eulerscheZahl: agreed

miszu: i just copy paste that pragma example to the top of my cpp file?

eulerscheZahl: yes

Astrobytes: Yup

miszu: I'll give it a try. Thanks

Astrobytes: And please do look up the available options and what they do

miszu: yes of course. If it actually improves I gonna read about it

miszu: it didn't change much really

Astrobytes: You may have bigger problems ;)

miszu: the loop where I do traversal, rollout and backpropagate only interate 50 times +/-

miszu: so yes, my code is so shitty that GC can't help me haha

AntiSquid: lol UK being like Wonderland


eulerscheZahl: and how many in java?

miszu: for me I am afraid of allocating new memory so I prefer to do everything by value

miszu: 500+ in java

miszu: sometimes 800

eulerscheZahl: i hope you don't pass large arrays by value?

miszu: I thought in C++ I could achieve 2-3k

miszu: cuz it's C++ master race

eulerscheZahl: which game? tic tac toe?

miszu: uttt yes

Astrobytes: And more, but not if you just write it like it's Java ;)

eulerscheZahl: you should get 20k rollouts in 100ms for legend

miszu: that's the issue haha. I wrote it with a Java mind haha

eulerscheZahl: just to give you an estimate how close/far you are

miszu: at least I don't have core dumps. So I have the correctness. Now it's just optimize it

Astrobytes: You're gonna have to allocate some memory :P

miszu: NUUU

miszu: I love automatic memory allocation

miszu: now I have to deal with descturctors

eulerscheZahl: make an array at turn 1, global variable

Astrobytes: ^

eulerscheZahl: and do you know what bitboards are?

miszu: yeah-ish

miszu: I use a class to represent my board game

miszu: and enum to represent the state of each square

miszu: very OOP

Astrobytes: Might be useful:$_meaton_Desktop_bits-7.pdf

dbdr: AntiSquid: dailymail is pretty trash, isn't it?

Astrobytes: yes dbdr

AntiSquid: well the title is the same for many other news sites

AntiSquid: i read dailymail comments actually

Astrobytes: But they're on point this time, just sensationalising it a little more

Astrobytes: "dailymail comments" you masochist AntiSquid

AntiSquid: lol no

AntiSquid: it's fun read

AntiSquid: always weird shit in there

Astrobytes: It's insane :D

AntiSquid: i like the arguments


miszu: that pdf is a rabbit hole

Astrobytes: lol dbdr

Astrobytes: We call it the Daily Heil

Astrobytes: miszu, lots of good info here too

Astrobytes: Plus there are a few TTT (not ultimate) articles out there that might be a good idea to start with

dbdr: Astrobytes: probably because of

Astrobytes: Yes, precisely because of that dbdr

Astrobytes: They haven't changed

AntiSquid: really? i am more inclined to believe they are supporting any type of bullshit as long as it's bullshit

Astrobytes: No, they've consistently pushed a far-right message, most UK press does to some extent or another.

AntiSquid: most articles i read online across multiple websites keep mentioning brexit and how bad it is, and i am saying this as someone who isn't in favor of brexit

struct: miszu I would start with simple TTT

struct: The change you have to make for UTTT then is not so big

struct: and will be way simpler to understand TTT

Astrobytes: AntiSquid - that's because it is

AntiSquid: the point is, it's mentioned too often

dbdr: this website looks like it was done by a 14 year old who just learned HTML

Astrobytes: Too often for what?

AntiSquid: most media is is leftist

Astrobytes: Leftist? Media? I nthe UK?

Astrobytes: In the UK?

struct: Most stuff on that website looks like ads

Astrobytes: Last I heard we had the most right-wing press in Europe

Astrobytes: They'll be the ones telling you everyone and everything is 'leftist' or 'communist' or - lol - 'Marxist'

AntiSquid: w/e

AntiSquid: weekend here

Astrobytes: They've managed to demonize practically anything left of centre-right

AntiSquid: how do i download replays again? it's been a while

AntiSquid: honestly i find both the right and the left have fallen in the the far extremes

Astrobytes: I thiiink it changed a bit? Still the JSON but I think the format is different

Astrobytes: Yes I agree AntiSquid

Astrobytes: We live in all-or-nothing, my-way-or-the-highway times, everything is extreme

Astrobytes: Anyway, way too much politics

reCurse: But it drives up our followers engagement /s

Astrobytes: haha


dbdr: wth is this?

reCurse: Sprite sheet

Astrobytes: lovely

eulerscheZahl: hint: use short names for you images to save replay size

eulerscheZahl: i'm totally serious on that and the names have to be the same for all replays of the games

dbdr: AntiSquid:

dbdr: the best is to open a replay url after hitting F12

dbdr: and find the right request

eulerscheZahl: (i used a dictionary to assign a,b,c,... as names, changed for each replay) caching replaced the images instead of properly loading, gave funny matches

dbdr: eulerscheZahl: well, it's compressed, so does it matter much?

dbdr: or there is a SDK constraint on uncompressed size?

eulerscheZahl: you mean the json is compressed when sending it?

eulerscheZahl: SDK checks uncompressed

AntiSquid: HTTP Status 405 – Method Not Allowed

dbdr: sure, compressed as part of HTTP

eulerscheZahl: pass arguments

dbdr: if the browser requests it, which it should

dbdr: and use POST


eulerscheZahl: dbdr are me using different APIs

eulerscheZahl: but there are often several options to get the data

dbdr: CG always has several APIs for the same thing

dbdr: for some reason :D

dbdr: I just opened and watched the traffic

AntiSquid: is this out of use?

dbdr: from the name, that would give you replay ids, not replays


eulerscheZahl: new URL

eulerscheZahl: without RemoteServices in it

PatrickMcGinnisII: Astrobytes bitboard url 404

eulerscheZahl: try the whole URL

eulerscheZahl: the chat breaks it at some characters, where it shouldn't

Astrobytes: ^

PatrickMcGinnisII: "$_meaton_Desktop_bits-7.pdf"

PatrickMcGinnisII: yup sure does

PatrickMcGinnisII: had to cut/paste twice

PatrickMcGinnisII: hmm, cellular automata interesting for langston ants

darkhorse64: The name is as difficult as the content



PatrickMcGinnisII: had to use safe strings w/ base 88 encoding into 800 byte chunks, so weird, but it works

PatrickMcGinnisII: sorry, just bragging on my low level solution to get data into the ide for Uttt

Default avatar.png ktaeah69: anyone got the solution for the thor game with python 3? my code fails on the 3rd and fourth test cases, its the right code but the remaining turns finish before he reaches the light?

Default avatar.png ktaeah69: is it possible to increase the movement instead of 1 cell per go

eulerscheZahl: share your code

eulerscheZahl: paste it here

Default avatar.png ktaeah69:

eulerscheZahl: you have to update thor's position

Default avatar.png ktaeah69: ah ok! makes sense!

Default avatar.png ktaeah69: how did u update his position?

struct: example

struct: if you go north

struct: then thor initial position -= 1

struct: if you go south it increases by 1

Default avatar.png ktaeah69: ok cheers!

AntiSquid: my js replay downloader is broken ... error at const express = require('express'); lol

struct: For East and West you update X positon

Default avatar.png ktaeah69: :thumbsup_tone1:

AntiSquid: it never goes north or south, forgot which

Uljahn: never N

AntiSquid: is this correct?

AntiSquid: trying to call leaderboard info, will pass parameters such as league

dbdr: looks right

AntiSquid: tiny bug somewhere can't find, must sleep, Automaton2020 help

AntiSquid: Automaton2000 ?

Automaton2000: i need to test it

AntiSquid: who is the 2020 guy?

Astrobytes: Someone's typo from earlier I think

dbdr: this year's Automaton :D

Astrobytes: AutomatonXXXX, Bot of Ages

Astrobytes: Anyway, I liked euler's idea earlier of an AutomatonFAQ bot

Astrobytes: Something that would actually be useful and not just a spam-machine

eulerscheZahl: dbdr started with it today but i remember suggesting something like that about 2 years ago when automaton was still new

eulerscheZahl: because suggesting is always easier than doing it

MSmits: questions like: Why is MadKnight asking me to go on teamviewer?

AntiSquid: OMG something is happening ! Automaton2000 you were of no use of course, as usully

dbdr: AutomatonFAQ give me a hint for CSB

Automaton2000: what's the problem with that?

eulerscheZahl: AutomatonFAQ when will get get promoted?

Astrobytes: AutomatonFAQ why can I only get 2 sims per turn

eulerscheZahl: how do i measure turn time?

AntiSquid: MSmits it's scam !

Astrobytes: So many FAQs

MSmits: hmm

eulerscheZahl: right now there are 7 hackers on your computer

eulerscheZahl: let me help you fix the problem

dbdr: AutomatonFAQ who is Automaton2020?

Astrobytes: hehehe

AntiSquid: call microsoft customer support bangladesh call center

MSmits: i had one of those calls

MSmits: you have a problem with your computer

eulerscheZahl: jim browning had an interesting video recently

MSmits: please turn on your computer

eulerscheZahl: accessing their cameras while they scam people

MSmits: cool


Astrobytes: hah, excellent

AntiSquid: just add FAQ at the end of Automaton2000FAQ problem solved

Automaton2000: any idea why my code is spaghetti

AntiSquid: lol

AntiSquid: was laughing at automaton, why is there a security cam in a scam center though?

MadKnight: AutomatonFAQ: will i be able to hack MSmits via TeamViewer ?

MSmits: :P

eulerscheZahl: because cameras are always good!

MadKnight: MSmits did u read that paper ?

Astrobytes: nice eulerscheZahl, I love stuff like this

eulerscheZahl: kitboga for entertaining clips jim browning for a deep analysis the boss of the call center even got arrested

MSmits: what paper MadKnight?

AntiSquid: forgot how ugly the replay files can be, ugh disgustang

eulerscheZahl: some effort to parse for older games

eulerscheZahl: nightmare for SDK games

Astrobytes: Prefer deep analysis. Classic pentesting techniques here

reCurse: SDK is a step backward in many ways

MadKnight: i gave u 5 hrs ago MSmits

MadKnight: link

MadKnight: Uljahn saw that

eulerscheZahl: SDK is the way to make the platform accessible without forcing us to learn pixi

eulerscheZahl: a compromise at the cost of flexibility

eulerscheZahl: but we can write our own modules to get the full power of pixi

eulerscheZahl: i admit i never tried myself

MSmits: I went off the train then probably?

MadKnight: pixi is easy eulerscheZahl

eulerscheZahl: i made a pixi toy project the interactive number shifting website

MadKnight: nice

AntiSquid: will you also use Uljahn as eyewitness during your teamviewing session?

MadKnight: he can't

AntiSquid: "i crashed pc, lulz, Uljahn saw that"

MadKnight: he got paws

AntiSquid: s

Uljahn: i see what you did there :spy_tone1:

MadKnight: i didn't mean him as witness i meant he still got the link and he can re-share it

MadKnight: Uljahn MSmits needs the link give it to him

Uljahn: the link was lost in flood

MadKnight: u got history

MadKnight: didn't u open it ?

Uljahn: i've cleared my history 5 seconds ago :smiley:

AntiSquid: Uljahn is your bookmark bot ?

MadKnight: it's still somewhere in deleted files on your PC restore it Uljahn

AntiSquid: it's bugged, MadPostItNote_eacf fix it

MadKnight: rip the chat Automaton2000

Automaton2000: it really depends on what you mean

Soonies: anyone up for a clash?

MadKnight: euler

AntiSquid: i have same face expression as your cat when i see clash request in chat, Soonies

MadKnight: lol

MadKnight: did u watch terminator 6 AntiSquid ?

Astrobytes: aka "feminator 6" if you're confused

AntiSquid: no, but even this kind of youtube video is more entertaining:

MadKnight: doesn't really bad acting of actors and super bad effects entertain u ?

Astrobytes: AntiSquid I despair

Astrobytes: MadKnight have you seen Iron Sky? 1 & 2

Istian: for you SQL masters... on conflict do nothing means if all insert targets are in conflict, or if any of the targets are in conflict, then do nothing.

MadKnight: transactions

MadKnight: Istian

AntiSquid: iron sky was great, i think 2 was boring, can't remember

Astrobytes: I liked 2, not a patch on 1 but still funny. Hope they get Bad Heidi out at some point

Astrobytes: Or Mad Heidi

Istian: MadKnight so if I have three insert targets, if i say on conflict do nothing, do all three have to conflict for it not to do anything, or will any of the 3 be enough for it not to insert?

MadKnight: any

Istian: coolbeans, thanks

Astrobytes: AntiSquid

AntiSquid: dunno not in mood to watch

Astrobytes: check it out when you are, very much Iron Sky, same producer

AntiSquid: k screw replays, i hate the formatting too much ... time to test vs individual bots, what tools were there? cg bench and ... ugh

Astrobytes: cgbench

Astrobytes: brutaltester is local

Astrobytes: the spunk plugin one doesn't work anymore

MostComplicatedUsername: How do I do comments that are more than one line long? Commenting each line separately gets annoying

MostComplicatedUsername: Or do I just do """?

AntiSquid: is there extra delay with it ? Astrobytes

AntiSquid: can i change timeout ?

Astrobytes: with what AntiSquid?

Astrobytes: bench or brutal?

AntiSquid: bench

AntiSquid: need more time / turn if possible to test vs opponents (slow search / random weird shit strats and other reasons)

Astrobytes: No I don't believe so, it runs matches against online opoonents so.. best to use brutaltester against a bot you made

AntiSquid: oh

AntiSquid: ok then no other choice

MostComplicatedUsername: 57 seconds...

AntiSquid: no XR ref for brutal tester?

Astrobytes: ummm, check the forum?

Astrobytes: Or ask on discord, don't remember tbh

AntiSquid: cg bench it is then, test eval

Astrobytes: Think it's just a line or two that needs changing in refs to work with brutaltester, can't remember which tho

Astrobytes: Might be on the repo

AntiSquid: could diff check files

AntiSquid: i guess

Astrobytes: Anyway, I'm out, catch you later

MadKnight: struct

struct: yes?

struct: MadKnight what did you want?

MadKnight: 3am here

MadKnight: anyone still online ?

MadKnight: Automaton2000 do u see anyone ?

Automaton2000: i think its because of the time

MadKnight: struct is long gone, Automaton2000

Automaton2000: is there a reason why i don't get how this works

MadKnight: that's because u're just a bot Automaton2000

Automaton2000: when you are the gold boss

MadKnight: where is zarthaxx Automaton2000 ?

Automaton2000: is there some kind of search

MadKnight: is there some kind of Automaton2000 AutomatonNN ?

AutomatonNN: &but i can't code it

Automaton2000: why do u need jasperr, antisquid?

MadKnight: yea why don't u prefer Automaton2000 ?

MadKnight: or CSB

Automaton2000: yeah, there is a problem

MadKnight: a big problem, Automaton2000

Automaton2000: and back to the past


Le_Hue: I am solving this problem on SPOJ and have received "Wrong anwer". How sad!! Could u give me some advice !!

Le_Hue: I've tried tests that I can figure out

Le_Hue: :cry:

BenjaminUrquhart: at least yours doesn't time out :upside_down:

miszu: QQ does using uint16 vs uint8 has a performace different in C++?

tutubalin: use uint_fast8_t

miszu: yeah I just looked it up. Looks great

miszu: my problem is how to represent all possible moves since there are 81 cells and I need to chose a random move from a bitboard

_Flippy: 9x9 ?

miszu: yeah, for uttt

_Flippy: the board ?

_Flippy: there is 18!/(2 * 9!) = 8821612800 moves

_Flippy: so it will take a lot of memory (and time) to save all moves

miszu: those are not moves but states

miszu: a move is the link between states

_Flippy: so, make a 2D list

_Flippy: and save in the links what u have to save

miszu: I try to avoid list and vector. I am aiming for speed now. I want to use bitboards and so on

_Flippy: what are the dir you can move ?

_Flippy: directions

_Flippy: I go

_Flippy: bye