eulerscheZahl: i don't know anything that doesn't get mentioned on chat. i'm not even on CG discord anymore
Darleanow: yeah i know ! i was just asking, as you've been here for quite a long !
RandomSteve: I kinda wanted to try the java certification test (I would probably not pass it) but terms and conditions say I should only do it if invited by a recruiter, yikes idk
Ayza: you don't need a recruiter
Ayza: + If you can pass clashes with java, then you can probably pass the certification test
Ayza: 5 puzzles, 1 hour
BO3__bits: yo
BO3__bits: mother father
HafizurRahman: oi
HafizurRahman: how to win level 4
StevenV: what language is the most modern language supported by CG?
eulerscheZahl: Kotlin i think
eulerscheZahl: First appeared July 22, 2011
(from wikipedia)
eulerscheZahl: oh wait, swift is from 2014
StevenV: thanks
jacek: happy Caturday
eulerscheZahl: happy Chaturday
afk7: happy Chaturday
RandomSteve: happy Chadurday
Aldoggen: happy Cheddar-day
PatrickMcGinnisII: U think your house is yours... nope... your cat is the hoMEOWner
Aldoggen: you're the pet, he owns you
PatrickMcGinnisII: They are little murderers trapped in little bodies. ;)
Aldoggen: mosquitos are too, they just don't know it
MSmits: they know it
Aldoggen: until they go splat of course
PatrickMcGinnisII: if cats could fly I would have more than 3. If they could breathe fire, i would have a castle full of them.
MSmits: If cats could fly they would escape
Aldoggen: I hope there's not much flammable stuff in your castle
PatrickMcGinnisII: I have a doggie door, they go in and out as they please.
MSmits: isn't this a saying?
MSmits: if wishes were wings, cats would roast your furniture?
MSmits: or something like that
Aldoggen: pigs would fly
MSmits: really.. ahh so close
Aldoggen: XD
PatrickMcGinnisII: mmmm, fire cats make bacon
MSmits: It is said people-meat tastes like bacon
PatrickMcGinnisII: :bacon:
PatrickMcGinnisII: soylent green, no ty
Aldoggen: flying pigs could make bacon wings
Aldoggen: I think I should go back to sleep and start my day all over.
PatrickMcGinnisII: if pigs could fly, we would have sturdy umbrellas
MSmits: btw, sorry I got here just now. Is the goal of this to make them pull off the bandage and remove the chat now?
PatrickMcGinnisII: :poop:
PatrickMcGinnisII: last chat msg logged wins
MSmits: ohh I see
Aldoggen: would they do it on a saturday tho?
PatrickMcGinnisII: suppossed to be yesterday
Aldoggen: maybe they still have some time on US east west coast
MSmits: I don't think they do anything on a saturday. So I suspect we can talk about flying and frying animals all day
Aldoggen: west*
MSmits: weekend even
Aldoggen: if you could talk with ants, would you do it?
MSmits: with, or to?
Aldoggen: with
PatrickMcGinnisII: No, sugar beggars ... annoying
MSmits: well if they start talking to me, i would reply
MSmits: it's polite
Aldoggen: would you also do it if you only could do it on a hot summer day, while holding a magnifying glass over them?
PatrickMcGinnisII: Moths ... they could be your little spies
MSmits: sure, i'd say sorry
Aldoggen: XD
MSmits: http://cgstats.magusgeek.com/app/multi-tic-tac-toe/msmits
MSmits: yay evalbot is now my best bot!
MSmits: no more random
Aldoggen: from 8 to 5 right?
MSmits: my other bot was 8 yes
Aldoggen: nice :)
MSmits: look what it did to bowwow :P
MSmits: 23-7 lol
MSmits: he was 5th before, i basically switched places
Aldoggen: hehe :)
Illedan: evalbot?
MSmits: uttt with no random rollout
MSmits: just eval backpropagated
Illedan: No book?
MSmits: nope
Illedan: Isn't book better?
MSmits: sure it will be once i generate it again
MSmits: i figured i'd take this bot to the max without book first
MSmits: i'm not there yet, might need to learn GA to fit these params properly
MSmits: my other bot is getting overfitted against =/ I am having to give it 500 ms calc time to provide a challenge
Aldoggen: maybe bowwow has a bot with similar strategies to your old one then
MSmits: yeah, but it could also be overfitted against differently. I think this may be a NN
Aldoggen: ah
Aldoggen: well done anyways :)
Aldoggen: I gtg now, I'll be back in a while
MSmits: thanks, I have years of trying for this game. I spend more time on this than on any other bot. To finally just throw it away and beat it with an evalbot is strange :P
Aldoggen: XD
MSmits: ttyl
Illedan: Might try that game one day too :thinking:
Illedan: http://cgstats.magusgeek.com/app/multi-fantastic-bits/illedan
Illedan: Now I'm back here
Illedan: xD
MSmits: oh yeah
MSmits: well that will be a challenge
MSmits: +4 to beat
Illedan: re Curse is boosted a lot by my submits
MSmits: well same challenge i have really, except there's 3 ppl in between recurse and me
MSmits: ah I see
MSmits: was recurse not at 1 before?
Illedan: He was
MSmits: quite an achievement beating pb4 anyways
Illedan: But during my submission period he was behind pb 4 for a while too
MSmits: oh i see
Illedan: Some strats beats him better, as he has bugs :(
Illedan: But that is worse against others
MSmits: yep so dont overfit on his bugs
Inferno_dragon: the way cg caculate the rank is way crazy
Karkadel: +
Inferno_dragon: those game in cg kinda hard
eulerscheZahl: the new formula was introduced mainly to push me to #1 back then. didn't last long
Inferno_dragon: really
eulerscheZahl: of course not
Inferno_dragon: bruh you made me confused
Inferno_dragon: and how many bot programming are there that you got 200K point from it
eulerscheZahl: there are still a lot of games that i haven't touched yet. it's just getting too much to keep up with it
Inferno_dragon: I think CG need some college knowledge in order to rank up faster
Inferno_dragon: Code golf seem amazing i forgot to do that
jacek: MSmits bowwowforeach uses NN
Inferno_dragon: oh the python golfer dead
jacek: so people cant do codegolf in python now? nows your chance
Inferno_dragon: but the old player has chance to rank higher
MSmits: ahh thanks for confirming jacek.
Inferno_dragon: that's bad
Inferno_dragon: the exec and bytes is down by codingame
MSmits: eulerscheZahl i don't entirely agree with your assessment. You could do a fast minimax on a bunch of these simple boardgames, but you just dont like em :)
Inferno_dragon: I think i will learn ruby to rank up in code golf
MSmits: no need Inferno_dragon
MSmits: you just need 5 different languages, ruby doesnt need to be 1 of them
MSmits: code golf cp is earned per language, 5 max
Inferno_dragon: ruby plus bash
jacek: MSmits pretty understandable https://bowwowforeach.hatenablog.com/entry/2022/07/05/195417
Inferno_dragon: bash still the best lang
MSmits: jacek, that could just be explanation on how he encoded his opening book :P
MSmits: why Inferno_dragon?
jacek: it called them weights
MSmits: oh
Inferno_dragon: cuz we can learn any lang and use it in bash
jacek: or maybe its trolling
MSmits: oh you translated it
MSmits: i mean if you posted your weights it would look like that too :P
jacek: https://deepl.com/translator is decent
eulerscheZahl: true, MSmits. it's about priorities. i can't do everything here and still do other contests and keep my sanity
MSmits: yeah I know. I took this approach quite a while ago. Only I just do the ones you skip, mostly
Inferno_dragon: thanks jacek for the transalate
MSmits: jacek really nice translation, the top paragraph gets translated 100% perfect
jacek: how can you tell
MSmits: well it makes perfect sense
jacek: it could entirely different thing that makes sense
jacek: id make that troll translator
MSmits: https://imgur.com/a/5sy2vQe
MSmits: it's even worded very nicely
MSmits: if this is a troll translator i'd be even more impressed
Inferno_dragon: the second paragraph is impressive too
jacek: liek this https://www.yuppiegadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/p-14766-Wrongulator1a.jpg
MSmits: lol
Inferno_dragon: lol
wagabond12: whats that, the wrongulator ?
MSmits: it says so on the box
jacek: probably written in js
MSmits: no i dont think so, they made it wrong on purpose
Inferno_dragon: probably use photoshop
MSmits: if it were js, it'd be by accident
PatrickMcGinnisII: https://bowwowforeach-hatenablog-com.translate.goog/entry/2022/07/05/195417?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp
Inferno_dragon: some guru deleted their account how sad
**PatrickMcGinnisII burps
PatrickMcGinnisII: hmm, google works too
Inferno_dragon: yeah the same transalate as jacek transalator
PatrickMcGinnisII: actually I bookmarked it like 2 days ago the last time someone posted the japanese link
MSmits: I like how we can spy on Japanese coders now
Inferno_dragon: but not encoded coder like this one
exec(bytes('湩異⡴㵸湩異⡴⸩灳楬⡴牯嬠崰瀊楲瑮猨牯整⡤⡛ⴰ扡⡳湩⡴⥭Ⱙ⥭映牯洠椠嵸嬩ㄭ孝崱','u16')[2:])
Inferno_dragon: just like acient character
MSmits: yeah thats done to save space
eulerscheZahl: input()\nx=input().split(or [0]\nprint(sorted([(0-abs(int(m)),m) for m in x])[-1][1]
MSmits: btw, his encoding is suboptimal. He uses array
eulerscheZahl: that's what it says Inferno_dragon
Inferno_dragon: how
eulerscheZahl: open a python terminal, paste the code without the exec part
eulerscheZahl: bytes('湩異⡴㵸湩異⡴⸩灳楬⡴牯嬠崰瀊楲瑮猨牯整⡤⡛ⴰ扡⡳湩⡴⥭Ⱙ⥭映牯洠椠嵸嬩ㄭ孝崱','u16')[2:]
MSmits: wow
Inferno_dragon: oh
MSmits: euler = trained spy
MSmits: I bet you learned this from doing RAIC
MSmits: and spying on the Russians
eulerscheZahl: not sure if i'll even play RAIC
MSmits: it is weird this year
Inferno_dragon: or he is an agent
eulerscheZahl: with all the politics and such. not even sure if i could win a tshirt
eulerscheZahl: and game isn't interesting enough to do it without
MSmits: yeah, no shirt no glory
eulerscheZahl: at least my topcoder 21 tshirt arrived yesterday :tada:
eulerscheZahl: won it in april 2021
MSmits: you won 21 t shirts?
MSmits: oh ok
eulerscheZahl: not 21 tshrits. just one with "TCO21" on it
j4at: lol
MSmits: it's like you said it and thought, o wait i am talking to msmits, i better clarify
Inferno_dragon: I thought some company is abundant tshirt
PatrickMcGinnisII: i don't have a PY term, what's it say?
PatrickMcGinnisII: VSC thinks it's an ini file
Inferno_dragon: vsc really
PatrickMcGinnisII: only Py i've done has been in notepad for import into graphics prog
Inferno_dragon: b'input()\nx=input().split(or [0]\nprint(sorted([(0-abs(int(m)),m) for m in x])[-1][1]'
Inferno_dragon: print(bytes('湩異⡴㵸湩異⡴⸩灳楬⡴牯嬠崰瀊楲瑮猨牯整⡤⡛ⴰ扡⡳湩⡴⥭Ⱙ⥭映牯洠椠嵸嬩ㄭ孝崱','u16')[2:]) just put a print
Inferno_dragon: why or [0] is here strange
MSmits: all golfed code looks weird to me
PatrickMcGinnisII: import sys
import math
bytes('湩異⡴㵸湩異⡴⸩灳楬⡴牯嬠崰瀊楲瑮猨牯整⡤⡛ⴰ扡⡳湩⡴⥭Ⱙ⥭映牯洠椠嵸嬩ㄭ孝崱','u16')[2:]
Inferno_dragon: cuz it used alien language
PatrickMcGinnisII: did nothing
Inferno_dragon: no use print PatrickMcGinnisII
MSmits: they are Japanese, not Zerg
Inferno_dragon: print(bytes())
MSmits: though they did zerg last contest tbh
PatrickMcGinnisII: oh i see it now
Inferno_dragon: oh codingame might killed the exec() method in python
eulerscheZahl: highly unlikely
Inferno_dragon: that's why i can't cheat in my clash with friends
eulerscheZahl: there are some many things to potentially block for golfing, like sys calls
eulerscheZahl: but also hard to do
eulerscheZahl: for the exec trick you could count bytes instead of chars
Inferno_dragon: yep but for code shorter than 50 it will give you a longer one
Inferno_dragon: the optimization is the hardest path in codingame
Inferno_dragon: the clash player could use your site euler
https://eulerschezahl.herokuapp.com/codingame/puzzles/
Inferno_dragon: oh i shouldn't post that site here
eulerscheZahl: why not?
jacek: its ran by some scammers i think
j4at: yeah its an IP grabber.
j4at: I always get ddos attacked while playing coc with euler, so he might be(migth not) the owner.
jacek: win by printing WAIT https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/650376661
Aldoggen: I have so many questions
eulerscheZahl: you play CoC with me? i can't recall doing such a thing
eulerscheZahl: i can confirm that i can extract IP address and user agent from that herokuapp
_Royale: :scream:
DomiKo: :D
Zorg1: the same for the other CG tools I suppose no ?
eulerscheZahl: but it only goes back for less than 1 day and i rarely check
eulerscheZahl: i'm more interested about what you search. there are users who copy the whole clash statement. and my DB query is poorly written, linear runtime to the number of words :D
_Royale: so if we lose the chat with can still communicate with you via search queries :-)
eulerscheZahl: sounds like the easiest way
i should add a feature "the last 10 queries"
eulerscheZahl: until i run out of dynos again
jacek: dynos is based on number of visits?
eulerscheZahl: uptime
eulerscheZahl: when you visit the site, the process gets started. and shut down after 30min of inactivity
eulerscheZahl: i get 550h of uptime per month
eulerscheZahl: thanks to web crawlers i exceed them
Aldoggen: oof
BlaiseEbuth: No way to block crawlers?
BlaiseEbuth: And oy there!
eulerscheZahl: robots.txt should teach them to check less frequently at least
Zorg1: if they read it ...
eulerscheZahl: but i don't care, website is up most of the time :D
eulerscheZahl: checking robots.txt is already a visit to my website
Zorg1: ^^
eulerscheZahl: but when you get denied 10 times in a row, do you check an 11th time that soon after?
eulerscheZahl: i think there are also ways to tell the crawlers how often to index your website
BlaiseEbuth: Yeah. My question was about a way to block them on heroku side before the visit
Zorg1: consulting robots.txt need the app to be started ? they are not static files that can be served without calling the app ?
eulerscheZahl: i don't think so
eulerscheZahl: but when you can make the crawlers visit less frequently via robots, it's a win already
MSmits: oy BlaiseEbuth
MSmits: scroll
visionspider: blacklisting, rate limiting, and robots.txt
BlaiseEbuth: o/ MSmits
BlaiseEbuth: There's also a pair of html meta args concerning crawlers iirc
visionspider: Also its worth knowing not all robots will respect robots.txt guidelines.
MSmits: like evil robots?
MSmits: :robot:
visionspider: haha
visionspider: yeah
visionspider: robots who don't follow Asimov's laws.
MSmits: or maybe they use them as "suggestions"
eulerscheZahl: no blacklisting. that's no longer politically correct
MSmits: African Americanlisting
MSmits: ?
visionspider: lol
visionspider: its like github changing master to main
MSmits: what does that mean
Westicles: NBA team owners are now governors
visionspider: github changed the naming convention of master branch to main branch
MSmits: oh
visionspider: because with a master branch all other branches were assumed as "slaves"
visionspider: lol
MSmits: silly
visionspider: https://www.theserverside.com/feature/Why-GitHub-renamed-its-master-branch-to-main
visionspider: So what was blacklisting renamed to?
visionspider: :D
eulerscheZahl: inner vs outer list or something like that
eulerscheZahl: a friend of a prof wrote a book. had to rename travelling salesman problem to travelling salesperson
visionspider: ok ill try to recall that.
PatrickMcGinnisII: Master and slave... how we used to designate drives
visionspider: I saw another naming convention for blacklist / whitelist : ‘block list’ and ‘allow list,’”
PatrickMcGinnisII: like with jumpers and sh*t
MSmits: block list reminds me of minecraft
visionspider: https://insights.dice.com/2020/07/17/whitelist-blacklist-the-new-debate-over-security-terminology/
MSmits: this renaming over cultural sensitivity seems unnecessary to me, but it doesn't bother me either
Westicles: this will be next
Westicles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_of_connectors_and_fasteners
BlaiseEbuth: Make a https://eulerschezahl.onion/codingame/puzzles/ <https://eulerschezahl.herokuapp.com/codingame/puzzles/> No more robots ezpz
MSmits: not sure Westicles, that distinction refers to sex, not gender
MSmits: if it is next, then that makes no sense
visionspider: that distinction is so widespread in so many domains
MSmits: it refers to biological differences, not gender identity
MSmits: so if they make a problem of it, they are idiots
Westicles: that wiki could be 5 lines. it is 1000 lies all about kinky sex stuff
Westicles: *lines
visionspider: BlaiseEbuth who can visit your website now lol
visionspider: lol
MSmits: Devices used for mating two connectors of the same gender have a wide variety of terms, including for example: "gender changer", "gender mender", "gender bender", and "gender blender"
PatrickMcGinnisII: can't get more than 8 depth on ending of CTTT
MSmits: that wiki is hilarious
visionspider: is the wiki a satire?
MSmits: I dont think so
MSmits: These mating surfaces are mounted into identical fittings which can freely mate with any other, without regard for gender (provided that the size and type are already matched). Alternative names include hermaphrodite, androgynous, genderless, sexless, combination (or combo), two-in-one, two-way, and other descriptive terms.
PatrickMcGinnisII: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/3040b544-12a1-4a98-9dcf-407f075a3b59
visionspider: lol
MSmits: Westicles is right
Rafarafa: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/3a51da04-4334-42c5-a9d6-8ce9b311bfcd
Rafarafa: :(
Aldoggen: I think it's a cool article
cythonboy: lol
Rafarafa: how do I substitute consecutive equal characters in a string with 2 copies of that character, that is
abbbbaaab->abbaab
Rafarafa: re.sub(r'((\w)\2{2,})',?????,s)
Rafarafa: I don't know how to truncate the matching group :(
ImJon20: this is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo hard
jacek: :zipper_mouth:
struct: Rafarafa
struct: let s = "abbbbaaab"
console.log(s.replace(/(.)\1{0,1}/g, "$1"));
jacek: js?
struct: yes
struct: with regex
jacek: :head_bandage:
DomiKo: cool
blibblob: Just met a person who used encoding to reduce his character count
struct: I think jace k does it too
jacek: encoding?
DomiKo: I believe he mean in CoC
blibblob: Yeah, shortest mode
struct: they use this blibblob https://github.com/clemg/pythongolfer/
blibblob: Is this not malpractice?
struct: Dont think so
blibblob: :thumbsup:
blibblob: Beats the purpose of codegolfing sort of...
DomiKo: yeah
jacek: beat them with ruby
blibblob: Done 🥶
blibblob: 92 vs 122 characters
Rafarafa: struct
Rafarafa: what would that be in python?
Rafarafa: if you happen to know
struct: no idea
struct: I dont use python
blibblob: What is "that"
struct: but the regex should be similar
Rafarafa: alright thanks
blibblob: I think str.encode('u16') should do the same thing
StevenV: hello gúy
StevenV: Hi automaton2000
Automaton2000: if you have no clue what to do ?
Tsak5422: hi there. any recomendations to how to become a good coder ? (I am 30 years old)
TKirishima: Try hard
Tsak5422: should I leave this career ? It is my only hope
derjack: depends what you want
derjack: webdev? mobile? enterprise?
Tsak5422: software development
jacek: well this site is to improve of what you already know, you need basic skills first
jacek: any language in particular?
Tsak5422: or software engineering or something. I am delivering food for 3 euro per hour. I just want a better life.
Tsak5422: i am trying python
Tsak5422: i know some stuff, but I cannot get any better.
Tsak5422: I am also reading: Zelle's An Introduction to computer science
jacek: here you could start on easy puzzles like the descent, power of thor, temperatures or horse dual racing
[Itep]: The way to become good is to "enjoy". If shouldnt be just a task or way to better life, it has to be a good way to entertain urshelf.
[Itep]: imo *
schaa0: @Tsak5422 There are free online courses like cs106a which cover a lot of fundamentals. Once those are settled, you learn the most from doing side projects, preferrably about topics that interest you the most and learn as you go
Afraaz1: hey guys I'm doing lowest temperature easy puzzle
Afraaz1: but I cant figure out how to aps the two negative temperatures are equal test
Afraaz1: https://www.codingame.com/ide/puzzle/temperatures
Afraaz1: I've added an if statement inside where I check if the absolute value of two temps is equal where it checks if both are negative and then assigns the lowest value the negative value
Afraaz1: but it doesn't help
jacek: which test case
schaa0: i think it's 2nd
Afraaz1: I got it now
Afraaz1: it was the both negative values
jacek: i think you should always abs the values
Afraaz1: yea i was but hten i was setting the lowest to abs value
Afraaz1: which caused issues when both temp and input was negative
jacek: ah
Tix81: does anyone have any suggestions for don't panic in less than 200 characters?
Tix81: i saw someone solved it in c # with less, but i can't get over 350 with this language
MSmits: under
Astrobytes: over should be trivial :P
eulerscheZahl: c# is the wrong language for golfing
MSmits: yes. Ask yourself, does trump do C#? If not, why not.
eulerscheZahl: because he's overqualified?
eulerscheZahl: i'm not. that's why i still use it
eulerscheZahl: also: you should always ask yourself "what would Jesus do?"
Crosility: Huh... I came in at a really weird point in this discussion. Trump as in, trump? O.o
Bob_Rocks: So did I
Astrobytes: Jesus?
Bob_Rocks: what is this about trump?
eulerscheZahl: when we bring in Trump for no reason, why not Jesus?
Astrobytes: true
Crosility: Now we're talking about Jesus on a programming site?
jacek: https://github.com/i-voted-for-trump/is-odd
BlaiseEbuth: Jesus died and angels play trump
Astrobytes: wait for the Godwin moment
BlaiseEbuth: That's my moment
jacek: godlose?
Crosility: *slowly backs away* jacek.. what in the world did you just post? O.o
jacek: not rickroll, thats for sure
eulerscheZahl: a popular node package
jacek: MSmits so low
jacek: what happened to your uttt
Tix81: certainly with other languages you write less, but if someone has succeeded it means that it is possible
Crosility: https://www.codingame.com/ide/puzzle/detective-pikaptcha-ep3
This puzzle is killing me.
eulerscheZahl: https://www.npmjs.com/package/is-ten-thousand
BlaiseEbuth: It's over 9000!
eulerscheZahl: i hated this puzzle in the contest Crosility. was doing well until i opened it
MSmits: jacek i am just experimenting
Tix81: none of you solved it in c # with less than 200 characters?
eulerscheZahl: you can filter the leaderboard by language
Tix81: Yes i did it
eulerscheZahl: 143 is the best for C#
Crosility: My brain isn't wrapping around what the designers want. Sadly.
eulerscheZahl: pretty sure it's some system call
eulerscheZahl: the "torus" thing? it's a line, not an actual torus
eulerscheZahl: lie, not line
Astrobytes: lol, nice error there
eulerscheZahl: indeed
jacek: oO
Crosility: If you mean the transformation, which they claim mobius strip, then sure.
jacek: TimeEngineer woah bronze
DrunkeyCPP: how would you write this "myhash = {x:0 for x in mylist}" in ruby/c++?
StevenV: Hello guys
BlaiseEbuth: o/
StevenV: when I do certificate on CG could I do googling?
yedi: yes of course
j4at: yedi can you share your coc solution ?
TimeEngineer: Jacek yeaaah I did it ! I didn't even know that there was a tictactoe in CG competition, my DQN beats them all :D
j4at: 26 secs doens't seems realistic to me
DomiKo: TimeEngineer you mean UTTT?
TimeEngineer: Yes in wood league Domiko
DomiKo: I see
MSmits: oh, the game will change in bronze
TimeEngineer: I know
StevenV: the bronze is.....
TimeEngineer: But I'm confident now about the learning
Westicles: yedi you must defend your honor
Crosility: OMG, I solved Detective Pikaptcha 3. O.O. Had to stare at some of the test cases for a stupid long time to see what they ACTUALLY wanted to happen :(
MSmits: Crosility we had 4 hrs to solve all 4 puzzles in the actual competition
Crosility: No way, 4 hours?!
MSmits: yep
MSmits: i took 3 hr 40 mins or so
MSmits: mobius took an hour i think
Crosility: Considering, I piggybacked off Ep2 code for Ep3..
Crosility: And still took ~2 hours for Ep3.
Crosility: I don't think I could do it :D Lmao
MSmits: it was very stressful, i wanted to get 100% before the end, i barely made it
MSmits: ep4 has a lot of cases
Crosility: That sounds really stressful. Almost like an extended intense CoC
MSmits: yeah, it was unique though, we didnt have other events like that
StevenV: I would stay away from it :D
Astrobytes: somethingsomething locam sprint somethingsomething
MSmits: meh locam sprint wasnt a puzzle
Astrobytes: twas 4 hours though
MSmits: you could solve it by outputting wait
BlaiseEbuth: You can now go make a public scandal on the forum saying he use a bot j4at :smirk:
Crosility: Oh no, episode 4 uses some weird cube transformation.
Crosility: :(
MSmits: yep, that one took me 2 hrs
MSmits: or maybe a little less
Crosility: *crys a little on the inside*
Crosility: I really like these maze/pathfinding puzzles. It really tests my knowledge on some hard subjects.
Crosility: BUT geez, navigating what they intended by the description, and what the description gives you..
Crosility: Brain needs a break.
Westicles: bender ep4? I solved it manually
Crosility: Enjoy friends.
eulerscheZahl: manually is not what you were supposed to do :(
j4at: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/report/25034449f42a2ce0aed95e162f564a15fdf5e61
eulerscheZahl: no
j4at: 26 secs by our boi yedi
j4at: he got 34 secs before that
devBib: hello is there any docker challanges or games?
struct: whats the clash
eulerscheZahl: there is no docker here on CG
Rafarafa: I see 34 secs for yedi in that link :thinking:
eulerscheZahl: not even to run our code in
BlaiseEbuth: As I said, sue him publicly on the forum. Already worked for cheaters :speak_no_evil:
j4at: ops wrong link
struct: you dont even know if he cheated
j4at: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/report/25034460e8078a30338a0f251f4adc60464371c
eulerscheZahl: squiddy is gone after all
struct: But whats the clash
Astrobytes: lol
struct: is the real question
BlaiseEbuth: Not the point struct
Rafarafa: dayum nice he's on fire
eulerscheZahl: maybe that guy is just better at clashing than you?
struct: some clashes are solvable in <10 seconds
Rafarafa: tbh I don't recall him cheating
Rafarafa: as in he doing 5mins+ stuff in 20 secs
j4at: I'm not saying he cheated .. I'm asking him to share his solution. Because eh ignored us in the coc chat and started talking in world
Rafarafa: ah
eulerscheZahl: when you clash a lot, some tasks will appear twice
BlaiseEbuth: Bring him to the gallow poll!
Astrobytes: what happened to guillotines?
Astrobytes: off with his head!
MSmits: they were deprecated
struct: What was the clash j4at?
j4at: https://www.codingame.com/contribute/view/20739e7af87e7682761095576937ba9196bba
j4at: It's pretty easy but 26secs is pretty good time. I though he is super human
Westicles: that's really fast for that one
j4at: but he didn't answer me
struct: not possible in 26
struct: imo
j4at: so probably a cheater
BlaiseEbuth: Far much hard to clean than a rope Astrobytes...
struct: just typing the notes would probably take longer than that
struct: but who knows
Rafarafa: oh boy I really hate that one
Astrobytes: fair BlaiseEbuth
Rafarafa: why does it show so much wtf
Astrobytes: I think it's quite a nice one, for a clash
Westicles: he was very polite when he begged for approvals
struct: maybe python has a trick to solve that one
struct: import music
Astrobytes: I told him off for it Westicles
Astrobytes: lol struct <insert that xkcd>
BlaiseEbuth: It's not like if nobody ever cheated in clash heh. Some even made a bot to play clashs! :scream:
j4at: Well maybe he got scared bc he saw me in clash, so it's understandable.
Astrobytes: ah modesty :D
BlaiseEbuth: :speak_no_evil:
j4at: :pensive:
jacek: when you almost give up but some magic starting to happen https://i.imgur.com/oqZrZW5.png
struct: whats this jacek?
BlaiseEbuth: Nice drawing boi :)
**BlaiseEbuth patpat jacek
jacek: yet another clash of bots attempt
struct: its NN?
jacek: :zipper_mouth:
j4at: it is
MSmits: plot twist: jacek is just colouring
BlaiseEbuth: :see_no_evil:
j4at: Jacek for how many hours did you train your NN
j4at: ?
jacek: im 14 now, it was trained for 48 hours. ES coevolution
jacek: the graph is just another start on bigger model
j4at: bruh 48 hours :o
j4at: you used attention ?
jacek: hyperparams probably not optimal
jacek: nah, just 5x5 input + rounds + number of robots
jacek: i wonder if i can get top5 with this, or do i need to take the whole shuffled map into account
j4at: you can't get a perfect score with that. recurse probably used all robots inputs + past inputs
jacek: theres no recurse there oO
j4at: But that's just a guess
j4at: oh i mean top1 :p
jacek: top1 is quiet ahead of others, dunno if he uses NN even
struct: it's true AI
j4at: NNs are the true AIs
BlaiseEbuth: Nah. Those are the true Ais https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale-throated_sloth
jacek: no, this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_wild_ass
MSmits: that's some wild ass
j4at: writing an optimized simulation for clash of bots is hard
struct: dont need optimization if you useNN
MSmits: I guess you create an array of bots that you reuse?
Astrobytes: is clash of bots any good?
MSmits: it's a weird game, i dont understand the replays
jacek: visuals are little bugged
jacek: and another bug - if 2 players have the same number of robots, its a draw. but according to statement, the one with more health left should win ~
j4at: Well yeah I don't need to optimize it I want to.
jacek: most time if NN stuff, no need to optimize simulation that much
MSmits: jacek is it an error in the statement or in the game?
jacek: yes
Astrobytes: :)
jacek: the game. https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/650356447
j4at: I want to optimize it because I worked on 2d game before and I spent a lot of time optimizing it that i became addicted :p
jacek: its a draw, though the viewer says its his win
jacek: j4at remember its a torus
j4at: ofc i know that
jacek: dunno, maybe you dont read statements
Illedan: Can't you just download all replays by 1st and use his actions in supervised training?
j4at: isn't that cheating ?
jacek: that would requires much more games
MSmits: you need years worth of cg benchmark budget :P
Illedan: Not really? :thinking:
Illedan: 1 game = 100 frames
1 frame ~ 30 bots on avg or something?
And handle each one independently:
5x5x20 inputs?
Illedan: gives 3k robot actions to learn from each game?
MSmits: it's not about the number of acions, it's about the number of possible inputs I think
MSmits: 2500 * 3000?
MSmits: i should try to understand the game before i comment :P
Illedan: Yeah, me2
Illedan: :D
Illedan: Anyone off to my offline training
Illedan: *Anyway
MSmits: hf :)
jacek: still youd need millions robots positions to train
jacek: offline training?
MSmits: he's going to do physical activity i think
Illedan: Nah, FB
MSmits: o
jacek: fantastic bits?
Illedan: mhm
MSmits: what'd they rename it to? broom humping?
Illedan: broomstick flyers
MSmits: close
Astrobytes: "broom humping" :D
MSmits: made sense to me
jacek: https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/420myq/til_that_mattel_released_quickly_discontinued_a/
Astrobytes: :rofl:
BlaiseEbuth: :see_no_evil:
Astrobytes: that's excellent
jacek: you killed the chat again
MSmits: let me revive it with this neat cg stats result: http://cgstats.magusgeek.com/app/multi-tic-tac-toe/msmits still ongoing, possibly i am lucky
Astrobytes: I can't take credit for that one jacek
j4at: No, they are just trying to buy a vibrating Nimbus 2000 broomstick
j4at: so jacek killed the chat
MSmits: this is so random. all I did was make one seemingly unimportant param go from 0.8 to 1.0 and it is so much better
jacek: still fitting params via brute force?
MSmits: local fitting is pointless now
MSmits: by brute force anyways
MSmits: i am just trying them out on the leaderboard
jacek: spam submits?
MSmits: different param values, not just spam
MSmits: but, good news
MSmits: only 4 real important params to fit
MSmits: i eliminated some
jacek: do you use random in submitted code?
MSmits: no
MSmits: i stopped using random locally too
MSmits: no matter what i did, my normal mcts bot was so weak with it
MSmits: i cant fit params when it loses 80%
jacek: you used random on mcts bot, not eval bot?
MSmits: i had it with 500 ms calc time, really slow too
MSmits: just mcts bot
jacek: but you get randoms from mc, i meant to use it to your eval bot ;s
MSmits: ow
MSmits: damn i should have seen that :P
MSmits: 65% WR vs recurse
MSmits: but this happened before when i had this bot a year ago
MSmits: it just sucked against everyone else then
MSmits: should have sticked with evalbot then, abandoned it too soon
MSmits: yay ended 4th
MSmits: 0.01 above jacek :grin:
jacek: :rage:
MSmits: karliso is my true nemesis though. He is not NN, but still wrecks me
MSmits: i still dont know what he does to have a bot this good
MSmits: it's not his random rollout. That's fairly basic
MSmits: (he shared it)
jacek: or trolled sharing it
MSmits: did not seem like it, but anything is possible
j4at: jacek send your lash of Bots
j4at: clash of bots simulation :p
karliso: oh hi
jacek: oO
jacek: j4at yeah movement and collisions are tricky
jacek: i just reimplemented it from referee
Astrobytes: nice work MSmits
MSmits: thanks :)
jacek: oh look, its the onitama guy
MSmits: hey !
MSmits: long time no see karliso
karliso: yes, finally got a job
MSmits: congrats!
jacek: at UTTT factory?
Astrobytes: grats!
j4at: Yeah I finished but found out that mine calculates damage incorrectly
j4at: Should read the referee
j4at: collision damage*
karliso: ty :)
MSmits: I was just talking about you. I made a uttt bot with no random rollout. it is better, but still loses to yours
karliso: But still mcts?
MSmits: it's selection expansion, then evasl
MSmits: eval
MSmits: uttt is notoriously hard to write good eval for, but i got it to work finally
karliso: somehow recurse managed to keep nr1 even though I thought my bot stronger.
MSmits: maybe other players push him up more
karliso: Perhaps people test vs me more and I provide more variety?
MSmits: thats for sure true, those nn bots are usually very deterministic
MSmits: my eval bot is too. I change 1 param and my bot goes to :poop:
karliso: Really nice. Did you automate param-fitting?
MSmits: no, i suck at this. I need to make a GA framework for it
MSmits: i dont have many params left though, this is almost doable by trial and error
karliso: So hand made eval, impressive.
MSmits: yeah
MSmits: i implemented your rollout and many variations of it btw
MSmits: but it was never better for me. I think your random rollout is not the best part of your bot
MSmits: i think your expansion function is really good
karliso: Probably. I learned a lot how to tune MCTS, there are definitely tricks I have not shared.
MSmits: oh, tune? You mean like UCB1 alternatives?
MSmits: I never got into those
karliso: I use UCB1, but params are fitted obviously.
jacek: more like tune C and FPU etc?
jacek: or maybe even... RAVE? :scream:
DomiKo: someone can implement RAVE? and not got like 20x less rollouts?
jacek: welp rave is pointless in uttt. too restricted moves
j4at: jacek how collision damage works I'm too tired to read the source code
jacek: is it about damage only?
j4at: yeah
j4at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JNc9TmnI7M
j4at: I don't understand the 2 to the right
jacek: it collides with in front of him, back from him and the left
j4at: what about the last one to the right it collides with 2
jacek: hmm you got me
jacek: the referee uses some graph and resolves at the end only
jacek: i reimplemented it mindlessly, i wonder if my sim is ok :thinking:
j4at: hehe
j4at: The referee is very bad :) compared to my super optimized sim
jacek: at least its not java...
j4at: I'm not talking about readability but okay
j4at: so send me your sim ? please :grimacing:
jacek: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm3YgoEiEDc
DomiKo: we all know
j4at: lol
Astrobytes: must be the first time I ever saw someone asking for someones sim lol (other than the DMs with "i'll pay you X for your bot") :D
j4at: Bruh i'm using NN the sim is the least important part
jacek: but thats different link?
Astrobytes: use the referee then
Astrobytes: (as it is I mean)
j4at: Well, I will need to do some digging to compile it + remove extra parts
j4at: But I don't want to bc very boring
Astrobytes: well sometimes boring stuff has to be done :D
Astrobytes: shouldn't take long anyway
j4at: NO
j4at: I prefer to finish my python sim
j4at: after I find out how collision works
jacek: python? and youre talking about performance :v
Astrobytes: lol
Astrobytes: don't think the sim has to be that performant tho
j4at: O(n) in python is faster than O(n2) in kotlin
j4at: I was talking algorithmic wise
j4at: not "performance"wise
Astrobytes: just rewrite the kotlin sections that need optimising
j4at: Nah I did it for fun I don't need to optimize it
j4at: + I already paid jacek
Astrobytes: lol
struct: mentioning python and performance should be a banable offence
DomiKo: 100% agreed!
DomiKo: struct how are Cyborgs going?
struct: slowly
struct: I have no idea what to do
struct: Im coding sim and hope it does something
DomiKo: yeah me too, I read forum a bit
Astrobytes: #winning
jacek: hmm i tried that case. i think my sim is bad o.O
j4at: I bet my live that my sim is faster than jacek's c++ sim .I.
jacek: ahh wait, its alright. i tested wrong
struct: I could write a c++ sim without worrying about performance it still would be faster than python sim
struct: I'm sorry
Astrobytes: *sorry not sorry
DomiKo: xD
struct: or maybe I just don't know python
struct: and I'm wrong
DomiKo: you aren't
jacek: imprt struct
jacek: import
jacek: :s
struct: last time I checked (10 seconds ago) there wasnt any python bot in uttt legend league
Astrobytes: even with cython or whatever it'll be less efficient and slower
jacek: 1 rust in top10
jacek: 26th c# oO
struct: C# has release mode
struct: so does rust
struct: and performance of rust is similar to c++ I think
jacek: but its marchete could be c++
DomiKo: C# => system(g++ ..) ?
DomiKo: they it is C++ 100%
MSmits: there is a javascript in uttt legend
j4at: you aren't but the algorithmic side matters a lot. Saying that the referee is faster than my sim is like saying that bubble sort in c++ is faster than mergesort/timsort in Python.
MSmits: but noone can stop you from submitting js if you got to uttt legend with another language
Astrobytes: C# can be fast if you know what you're doing
Astrobytes: not *as* fast as rust/c/c++ but faster than java
jacek: j4at we are talking about the same algorithm
Ralkey: why are the test cases so slooooow
jacek: they dont know the referee obviously
TimeEngineer: Is that normal UTTT bots play so bad :') ? I want to give my first heuristic lol
TimeEngineer: own*
TimeEngineer: Idk why I wrote first
struct: Only top plays well
TimeEngineer: Do they ?
struct: what search are you using TimeEngineer?
struct: I would think so
MSmits: every bot in legend plays well really
MSmits: even top 10 can lose to a rank 100
Astrobytes: he's using DQN iirc
TimeEngineer: I have just checked Recurse and Jacek bots
struct: its hard for a human to tell what's happening imo
struct: I never watched my bot play
Astrobytes: other than glaring mistakes yes
jacek: top bots will lose mostly as p2 against much weaker bots
MSmits: yes mostly
MSmits: struct uttt is not that difficult to follow. Somewhere midgame both players will have 2 in a row on many miniboards, but they have to avoid giving away free moves and sending opponent to a winning board
j4at: jacek if you say so. fixed my sim :)
MSmits: it's just difficult to look several moves ahead, but thats true for many games
MSmits: i find oware much more difficult to follow
MSmits: i can look 1 or 2 moves ahead, but then the seedcounts start to go fuzzy
jacek: j4at :tada:
Cambech: je crois qu'il s'est tromper de channel ^^
jacek: :no_mouth:
jacek: sudden spike in uttt submits recently
struct: and c4
struct: darkhorse got to rank 4 there
MSmits: mostly my fault :P
jacek: bu he submitted on 1st jan :?
struct: he got pushed
struct: from 11th+-
Astrobytes: hm, 28th > 18th on BT, I'll take that for now
struct: nice
struct: minimax?
Astrobytes: yeah ofc
Astrobytes: crazy negascouty with something that I don't understand and some other bits
Astrobytes: I did a rewrite with my alt but it doesn't work as well so gonna have to take this one offline I think to understand properly
struct: astro try to score your pawns that are on corner a bit lower
struct: the ones at the 1st row
struct: so a1 and h1
Astrobytes: hehe, yes was trying that earlier
Astrobytes: I have it written down so I don't forget. I only meant to modify the algo a lil bit and ended up getting stuck here all afternoon
Astrobytes: all my back rows scoring needs work tbh
jacek: so you made some breakthrough in bt
Astrobytes: at least I wreck MSmits
MSmits: I'm honored to be wrecked
MSmits: just to be clear, i didnt just put some random crap bot on there, I actually tried :P
Astrobytes: It's an extremely tough top 20 in BT
MSmits: it's extremely tough in most boardgames, but this game doesn't click with me somehow
jacek: "I only meant to modify the algo a lil bit and ended up getting stuck here all afternoon" oh my
Astrobytes: It's one of my favourite games
MSmits: Yeah, that's the sad part for me, i really like it too :P
jacek: at least you can somewhat say whats going on
MSmits: you sure can
Astrobytes: indeed
Astrobytes: you use EPT on this MSmits?
MSmits: yeah
MSmits: same as what i do now on uttt
MSmits: except i dont know how to eval bt
Astrobytes: if you can eval UTT effing T you can eval this
MSmits: but i am not the only one that has that problem. struct complains about it a lot. He is just more persistent
MSmits: I understand uttt better :P
jacek: no human can understand it
MSmits: well, i cant follow the game better than i do bt, but i know better what is a good gamestate
MSmits: and thats what you need for an eval
jacek: so much gap between 4th and 5th, and 2nd and 3rd
Astrobytes: BT has a lot more going on, that's true
MSmits: uttt is easier to split into separate chunks and eval
MSmits: the game rules do this for you
MSmits: bt is an interconnected mess
Astrobytes: you can still split some parts
MSmits: yeah but the parts depend on the current gamestate do they not?
MSmits: they are not fixed regions
struct: There are some fixed regions
MSmits: pawn a is connected to b is connected to c etc.
MSmits: it's messy, at least to me
Astrobytes: well, the top and bottom of the board are always important, the middles important, the edges are important etc etc
MSmits: sure
struct: a pawn on 6th row always requires 2 pawns defending the attacked squares
jacek: attacked pawn is different if its also defended
MSmits: my head already hurts
MSmits: gimme my crosses and circles
Astrobytes: not as bad as mine did whilst trying to understand my 9 months untouched eval earlier
Astrobytes: also it appears I used bextr in this game
struct: for what?
Astrobytes: applying and undoing moves
Astrobytes: maybe elsewhere, didn't look
Astrobytes: donno if it was faster or anything, might just have been an experiment
struct: ah dbd bot is broken
Astrobytes: yeah it crashes on first turn, very annoying
jacek: rust eh
Astrobytes: :D
TimeEngineer: I didn't understand the rules of the game :(
BlaiseEbuth: You lost.
TimeEngineer: Now I do
jacek: which game
LambdaTiger: so this is weird the compare (>) failed 2 ticks????
jacek: ?
LambdaTiger: i have a compare if statement and it didnt execute only after 2 more iterations
TimeEngineer: UTTT, I didn't know that you should play where the opponent has played :sweat_smile:
jacek: what puzzle?
LambdaTiger: does it matter? its the Mars Lander
jacek: well is there any error or warning? about getting all inputs and outputs right?
LambdaTiger: no it works fine... but the if statement gets executed not at the correct time its just plain weird
LambdaTiger: i have for eg: if a > b: start_burn()
LambdaTiger: a is bigger than b (according to debug) but it still loops 2 more loops to start the start_burn() function
jacek: show us the whole code?
LambdaTiger: here?
jacek: i.e. pastebin.com
Astrobytes: ^
Astrobytes: auto pastebin is broken
MSmits: https://pastebin.pl/
MSmits: better ping for jacek
jacek: perl?
MSmits: perl?
Astrobytes: .pl
BlaiseEbuth: oO
MSmits: jacek... it's your home
MSmits: you live there
Astrobytes: .pl is a perl file extension
BlaiseEbuth: pony land ?
MSmits: indeed BlaiseEbuth lol
Astrobytes: hahaha
jacek: hmm
LambdaTiger: https://pastebin.com/yDVjsSQX
LambdaTiger: i wrote a description of whats weird...
jacek: def start_burn():
while True:
print("0 4")
jacek: loop in a loop?
LambdaTiger: yes it terminates when touching the surface...
BlaiseEbuth: loopception
LambdaTiger: the code works but it just gets executed late...
Astrobytes: I'd reconsider those loops
LambdaTiger: i was thinking ahead of time for next ep:
LambdaTiger: it will be
LambdaTiger: def start_burn():
while radio_y > surface:
print("0 4")
loop in a loop?
jacek: firstly, you are meant to print once per loop, so no loops in start_burn()
MSmits: well at least no more than a single print
jacek: and you are error printint only v_initial, what is the value of v_speed?
BlaiseEbuth: vspeed is -45, -47, -49 in the output
LambdaTiger: vspeed is printed out out with the console so...
jacek: oh, ok
BlaiseEbuth: so condition is false
BlaiseEbuth: abs(-45) >= 62
LambdaTiger: its 42 not 62
BlaiseEbuth: Ah yes wrong line, my bad
jacek: but hey, this one works. after vspeed = -45 you are printing 0 4
LambdaTiger: at 45 im printing 0 0
LambdaTiger: at 47 im printing 0 4
LambdaTiger: i figured it out its just different reporting from console and input it has a small difference
LambdaTiger: ill send u screenshot
BlaiseEbuth: Anyway that loop is a bad idea
LambdaTiger: https://prnt.sc/lNF-kfkQECzs
jacek: the -45 is is from next frame
BlaiseEbuth: ^
LambdaTiger: why would it matter tho? it just breaks/forgets the initial loop and continues looping
jacek: Warning: your code did not read all available input before printing an instruction, your outputs will not be synchronized with the game's turns and unexpected behaviour may occur.
LambdaTiger: no its from same ^ i checked
BlaiseEbuth: You don't read the following inputs
Astrobytes: cause you're in that loop
jacek: frankly im surprised it works. you are messing with the inputs with that looped print
Astrobytes: maybe, I donno, I'm busy, ignore me
MSmits: LambdaTiger for every time you read 1 set of inputs, you have to give 1 output
MSmits: if you give multiple outputs before your next input set, you messed up
LambdaTiger: ahhh @MSmits makes sense
LambdaTiger: my entire logic doesnt work then
Astrobytes: correct
jacek: Astrobytes busy with that 29th rank?
LambdaTiger: need to make a simple bigger than smaller than
LambdaTiger: wanted to burn efficiently
LambdaTiger: sad :(
BlaiseEbuth: :zipper_mouth:
jacek: your entire logic doesnt make sense, but it works ;V
MSmits: yeah first make it work, then make it better
Astrobytes: jacek: just some stuff from the other bot that I wanted to try out
LambdaTiger: hahahaa its meant to calculate at full burn to land at specific v/s
LambdaTiger: but since with each input i need an output it wont work as planned
MSmits: you can do as many loops as you want to calculate stuff, just as long as you only give 1 output before the next inputset
LambdaTiger: deal ^ @MSmits
LambdaTiger: thnx @all
Astrobytes: is this ML1?
BlaiseEbuth: *And read inputs
MSmits: you can for example calculate the next 10 moves, but you only output the firs
Astrobytes: ML1 or ML2?
jacek: MLP
LambdaTiger: oki guys worked as I intended with 1 output for every input
LambdaTiger: thnx again
jacek: :tada:
PatrickMcGinnisII: I been trying my damndest to get out of wood3 CTTT
PatrickMcGinnisII: i can't do more than a depth 8 minmax on endgame
DomiKo: draw trick?
PatrickMcGinnisII: yes
MSmits: depth 8 is pretty impressive on php
PatrickMcGinnisII: it's 40k endgames
MSmits: do you use ab pruning?
PatrickMcGinnisII: no, it was slower
Astrobytes: That's not right
MSmits: no thats weird
MSmits: it can be slower ofc, but you still get deeper
PatrickMcGinnisII: and it just gave me win/loss/draw ... not score diff
MSmits: ab pruning can give score diff
MSmits: if not, you're doing it wrong
Astrobytes: ^^^^
PatrickMcGinnisII: i reworked the minmax
MSmits: better to just copy the algortithm straight off the wiki, thats what i did
MSmits: but i prefer negamax
MSmits: also straight off the wiki
MSmits: it's quite good
Astrobytes: un-rework it Patrick
PatrickMcGinnisII: the next depth is 362k nodes ... don't think i can trim enough is the issue for ab
MSmits: ab doesnt work that way, it's not gonna encounter most of those
struct: DomiKo the game is a proven draw
Astrobytes: yeah, defo doing something weird there Patrick
struct: so you just play drawing moves until opponent makes a mistake and you can find a win
DomiKo: yes I know
MSmits: mirrored moves
struct: To draw you just need to mirror opponent move
struct: ah ok
DomiKo: that why I was asking
Astrobytes: he knows struct, that's why he asked if he was using the draw trick :D
DomiKo: if you win first half, then you make draw on second one, that's a trick
PatrickMcGinnisII: I also found that if u go first, a move of 3 3 is better than anything else apparently
MSmits: better trick: Do draw on both halves and keep a minimax running. When it solves, you stop copying and do best move instead
MSmits: the only reason not to do this is when you're at the top of the leaderboard
PatrickMcGinnisII: i meant 2 2
DomiKo: MSmits I tried doing it and it didn't work :(
MSmits: what went wrong?
Sraiti: does anyone understand's the
There is no Spoon - Episode 1
DomiKo: for me it's hard to find when you should break the draw
NewCoder09: Hey guys does anyone know when Wontonimo was on last?
MSmits: why is this hard? You minimax to end of game. If you run out of time, you didnt solve it
DomiKo: if I break it too soon I often lose, but too late then you have too many draws
MSmits: if you dont run out of time, you solved it
DomiKo: to the end LOL
MSmits: yes to the end
MSmits: thats what i do
DomiKo: I tried doing it with MCTS
Sraiti: anyone ?
MSmits: that works too, either you solve or you dont
PatrickMcGinnisII: when storing partial gamestates i can't get to 40k, but I'm sure the partial minmax everyturn would get deeper
MSmits: jus tmake sure your solver is good
MSmits: i dont store gamestates when doing minimax, unless i do some kind of transposition table
Sraiti: okie
MSmits: why store states PatrickMcGinnisII?
MSmits: i guess TT migth be good here
MSmits: but do it lossy, just store however many is efficient
PatrickMcGinnisII: oh your idea of running searches in 'background'
Astrobytes: depends on game
MSmits: searches in background? Not sure what that is
Astrobytes: why are you storing gamestates?
Astrobytes: in minimax?
Astrobytes: that's insane
PatrickMcGinnisII: no I'm not, I'm talking about going deeper by spanning the search between moves
Astrobytes: explain better
struct: is it bad to store the state on minimax?
MSmits: it is only good if you use transposition tables struct
Astrobytes: as a hashed value
struct: oh I missunderstood
MSmits: theres no such thing as "reusing the tree" in minimax, unless it's TTT
MSmits: TT
struct: I thought you meant copy the state instead of undoing the move
MSmits: ah no thats fine
MSmits: it's convenient to copy it
NewCoder09: struct do you know when wontonimo was last on by any chance
Astrobytes: sure, depends on the game
MSmits: but that copy only has a lifetime of the function
struct: like 3/4 days ago
jacek: about week or 2 weeks ago
NewCoder09: alright
struct: or a week
Astrobytes: 3 or 4 days ago yeah
NewCoder09: been trying to get ahold of him guess i just miss him by like an hour or something
jacek: have you tried discord
NewCoder09: yeah
Astrobytes: but did you use the principia discordia
MSmits: didn't Newton write that?
Astrobytes: No
MSmits: he could have
jacek: dunno, im not physicist
MSmits: dude was smart
PatrickMcGinnisII: damn, i have an error, but it's not in the search
PatrickMcGinnisII: forgot to empty the board after first game, so my eval function returning bad numbers, wth
MSmits: empty the board?
MSmits: undo should restore any changes to board
Astrobytes: something is wrong in your implementation I think Patrick
MSmits: I agree, you say weird things that don't fit with how i think minimax works
PatrickMcGinnisII: u said keep minmax running while doing the mirroring
MSmits: yes
MSmits: but you do a new search every turn
MSmits: if it fails, just mirror
MSmits: if it succeeds, play best move
MSmits: you dont keep stuff between turns really
PatrickMcGinnisII: I can't measure time like u guys can
MSmits: why not?
Astrobytes: ?
PatrickMcGinnisII: it varies by +/- 10ms consistently
MSmits: just use 40 ms then,
PatrickMcGinnisII: the time checks cost time
Astrobytes: that seems an irrelevant concern right now
MSmits: then dont do them every iteration
PatrickMcGinnisII: it's a catch 22
j4at: phph ?
j4at: php*
PatrickMcGinnisII: I have an if statement that is refusing to work
PatrickMcGinnisII: if (($turn%100)==0) {
PatrickMcGinnisII: resets everything for next game
MSmits: if ((rollouts & 15) == 0) is what i do in uttt
MSmits: but can make the number larger i guess
MSmits: 255 should be safe too
Astrobytes: every game ends at that point?
MSmits: no, this is a whole rollout
MSmits: game end is irrelevant
Astrobytes: at Patrick
MSmits: oh ok
Sraiti: can anyone please explain
There is no Spoon - Episode 1
to me
PatrickMcGinnisII: u know it swaps first player and plays again
Astrobytes: @Sraiti: the spoon is not there. It does not exist
Sraiti: matrix reference
Sraiti: Nice one
PatrickMcGinnisII: crap, figured it out .. i increment the turn counter after the opp move, smh
PatrickMcGinnisII: so if I'm player 2 ... it never resets the board
Astrobytes: make sure that's not the global turn counter
PatrickMcGinnisII: works fine as player 1
Astrobytes: search depth + turn counter is gonna mess the fuck out of your regular turn count
Astrobytes: *feck
PatrickMcGinnisII: issue wasn't in the search
Astrobytes: something still seems odd with your search though
PatrickMcGinnisII: the games i was losing is when the ref chooses me as plyer 2
PatrickMcGinnisII: board wasn't resetting
PatrickMcGinnisII: dumb
PatrickMcGinnisII: so when playing in ide, i never switched sides and tested it
NewCoder09: i finally added simulation to mad pod
struct: nice
DomiKo: cool
Astrobytes: is it less mad now?
NewCoder09: yeah
DomiKo: lol xD
struct: now run random search with simple eval
Astrobytes: return (pod->state == MAD) ? -1 : 1;
**PatrickMcGinnisII <=> CRAZY = +1
PatrickMcGinnisII: pulling wood3 boss down now
**PatrickMcGinnisII knocks on wood
PatrickMcGinnisII: still think depth 8 isn't enough... need at least 11
NewCoder09: Ranked number 1 in gold league all i need to do is get passed the boss now
NewCoder09: past*
struct: looks good
NewCoder09: past the boss now
Astrobytes: :tada:
struct: what search are you using?
NewCoder09: and im back below him
Astrobytes: and what search are you using NewCoder09?
PatrickMcGinnisII: You've made it to the next league.
struct: grats
Astrobytes: I'm still concerned about your searching but grats :)
struct: i meant grats for patrick
struct: I think he got promoted
Astrobytes: I meant for Patrick too
PatrickMcGinnisII: it's running wood2
struct: just my poor understanding :p
PatrickMcGinnisII: gained 140 ranks so far
PatrickMcGinnisII: oh maybe it's only 70
struct: you seem to lose some games patrick
PatrickMcGinnisII: 8 out of 50 loss so far
PatrickMcGinnisII: now i'm stuck at #1 in wood2... this freakin game
PatrickMcGinnisII: now i went 9 wins to 2 losses against boss ... would it do any good to resub and try to pull him down?
struct: yeah
struct: The boss probably had 28+ points patrick
PatrickMcGinnisII: reviewing losses
LazarAngelov: Hello guys
LazarAngelov: how are you ? :)
PatrickMcGinnisII: hmm, looks like I make mistakes just b4 search starts ... I go off mirror moves at turn 89 ... and search doesn't start until move 91 ... so this 1 round gap usually gives me more score ... but not all the time apparently
Astrobytes: :zipper_mouth:
PatrickMcGinnisII: boss went down 1.3 on that submit
PatrickMcGinnisII: i know i know, i could explain tho... when i go first i leave a mirror 'hole' ... and sometimes that hole scores very high compared to the mirror move eval
PatrickMcGinnisII: pshed 1 bot out
PatrickMcGinnisII: pushed 3, loggin off
Astrobytes: PatrickMcGinnisII: fix your Green Circle instead
struct: this heat is killing me
Astrobytes: chill
struct: not here
Astrobytes: we only got about 24
struct: 24º?
Astrobytes: in my room rn its 29
struct: damn
Astrobytes: yep
Ayza: you'd die here :slight_smile:
Astrobytes: It's nice
struct: I dont have a reader
struct: it feels like 35+ inside
Astrobytes: I'd prefer 37-40
struct: thats crazy
Astrobytes: depends where you are
Inferno_dragon: what unit celsius?
Astrobytes: In Greece that was nice
Astrobytes: C yes
struct: yes celsius
Ayza: averaged 39-40+ here on summer
Inferno_dragon: Some time my room í 41
Inferno_dragon: or even more
struct: its 2:40am here
struct: thats the problem
Astrobytes: I'm Scottish but not made for SCottish climate, London summers were like 36-37C, now I get 24C max
Inferno_dragon: how could you stay that late struct?
struct: because its too hot
Astrobytes: same struct, its about 20 outside but that's nto why I'm awake though
Inferno_dragon: you could sleep
Ayza: 20 would be considered kinda cold for me
Ayza: I prefer around 30+
Astrobytes: me too
Inferno_dragon: I prefer under 20
Astrobytes: I prefer over 30 as long as I have a window
Astrobytes: window/door to open
Astrobytes: otherwise, without some airflow it can be hell.
Astrobytes: Also, the humidity level makes a difference
Astrobytes: regardless of temp
Ayza: true it does
struct: Must be broken
struct: But it explains it I guess
struct: https://i.imgur.com/E7N4knK.png
struct: High humidity is bad?
Ayza: yes
Astrobytes: it's not great
Ayza: according to google it's 55% in my city now
Ayza: not bad I guess
struct: the one that is live gives around 80%+ for my zone
Astrobytes: still harsh
struct: That's why it feels hotter at night I guess
Astrobytes: indeed
Astrobytes: only solution I ever found was sleeping naked on top of the bed
Astrobytes: open doors but closed screens
Astrobytes: I wish I still had this problem
NewCoder09: I just got done watching the new thor movie and i come back and it says i will be promoted to legend league
NewCoder09: yay
struct: grats
Ayza: congrats what game?
Astrobytes: oh your CSB, and which search algo is it @NewCoder09?
Astrobytes: (got some déja vu)
Astrobytes: if there is still no response then we know exactly which search algo it is
NewCoder09: ?
Ayza: Linear search
Ayza: :slight_smile:
NewCoder09: sorry i was doing something
NewCoder09: pretty sure i used linear
Wontonimo: "pretty sure" ? !?
struct: hi Wontonimo
Wontonimo: it's your code, you should be definitely sure
Wontonimo: hey hey struct! :wave:
Inferno_dragon: wait there is linear search?
Wontonimo: i have no idea what linear search is
struct: this is linear search
Wontonimo: 1 2 3 4 5
Inferno_dragon: sometime I don't know aglo i use math so i could say pretty sure
struct: for (int i =0 ; i < array.size(); ++i)
if(arr[i] == target)return i;
Inferno_dragon: omg
Linear search is a sequential searching algorithm where we start from one end and check every element of the list until the desired element is found. It is the simplest searching algorithm
Wontonimo: :100: struct
Inferno_dragon: that's js
Ayza: linear search is the first search you ever do by instinct
struct: maybe but just wanted to kinda show what linear search is
Inferno_dragon: well binary is better
Ayza: - definition by ayza
Inferno_dragon: I never use linear
struct: ofc but binary needs to be on a sorted array
**Inferno_dragon burp
Inferno_dragon: oops
Astrobytes: I'm just a little "concerned" about what newcoder is using for CSB
Inferno_dragon: but how mad could use linear
Astrobytes: Wontonimo: hey hey!
Ayza: I use linear search for all puzzles basically
Inferno_dragon: maybe math
Wontonimo: hey hey Astrobytes ! I missed you guys
Ayza: unless time matters
Astrobytes: where you been dude?
Inferno_dragon: like the resistance
Wontonimo: usually you log off right before I log in Astrobytes
HenroLST: hellloooo
Wontonimo: oh, i've sadly lost interest in doing the puzzles and multis a while ago and just hung around for the chat ... then started to feel like an imposter coder
Astrobytes: ah, well, I've been logged in a lot recently but not awake, so I'll take your word on that :D
struct: I cant code on last new days
struct: I probably need a break
Inferno_dragon: or stalking with a new account
Astrobytes: Wontonimo: ah now, see that happens
Wontonimo: yup
Inferno_dragon: that's how alot of top delete their account
Astrobytes: but you come back
Wontonimo: ii've been talking with a couple people about NN's on discord though. that's been fun
Inferno_dragon: *why
struct: what doy uo mean Inferno_dragon?
Wontonimo: oh, NewCoder09 just ping'ed me about his bot in CSB
struct: do you*
Inferno_dragon: ah nothing
Astrobytes: we won't have much choice other than discord soon I guess
HenroLST: GO ON STRIKE
struct: again?
Wontonimo: they've been saying that for a year
struct: didnt you see the forum Wontonimo?
Astrobytes: we did all that striking and whatnot
Wontonimo: no
struct: https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/discussions-spaces-update-the-question-of-the-chat/196276/39
struct: pretty much 90%+ of the posts are against it
Inferno_dragon: if this chat dead i'm gonna out codingame
HenroLST: no chat = sadness
Inferno_dragon: so bored
struct: So comment about it
Astrobytes: some really nice posts in there too
struct: Even if it's 2 lines or something
HenroLST: inferno dragon < zap
Inferno_dragon: whwy you know that bro
Inferno_dragon: yeah gotta spam to save this chat
struct: not spam
HenroLST: hm i just noticed do yall see my pfp?
struct: can still be cordial about it
struct: yes
HenroLST: weird i cant
Ayza: I see the default pfp and my old pfp
HenroLST: meh
Astrobytes: not currently, but this window has been open for days
struct: It will update eventually
Ayza: probably because its gonna get deleted
HenroLST: ah
Ayza: this been my old pfp for a long time now I think
Ayza: will it ever update
HenroLST: whenever automaton2000 allows it
Automaton2000: got it to work for me
Inferno_dragon: I thought this new was about a few months ago when thibaud first anouce this
HenroLST: dang no need to flex
Inferno_dragon: before the spring according to my brain
Inferno_dragon: spring contest
Astrobytes: chat deletion has been a thing for at least a year or more now
Ayza: it's past the due time now
Ayza: maybe they are reconsidering it
Inferno_dragon: hope they won't delete it
Wontonimo: thanks for the link struct. it's sad. i'll believe it when it happens. and when it does it will be a sad day.
struct: it will happen
Wontonimo: hey, maybe we can add "?enableChat" to the url to enable it :smirk:
Inferno_dragon: cuz before the spring challenge there is a test on new account
struct: and discord will be a failure
Astrobytes: I doubt they are reconsidering, I believe the time to remove it without negative effects upon the rest of the site was underestimated is all
HenroLST: perhaps
Inferno_dragon: that made those new account can't access to the chat
Inferno_dragon: I once made an account during that time
struct: yeah
HenroLST: i made mine after spring challenge though?
struct: they made a test like that I think
HenroLST: or was it mid way i forgot
Astrobytes: the 3 A/B tests
Wontonimo: it is a headhunting and recruitment company, not kaggle
Inferno_dragon: I need to level up in order to access the chat how sad
Astrobytes: not even that Wontonimo
Astrobytes: just recruitment
Inferno_dragon: maybe coderone want that?
struct: basicly they bought because of CG for work
struct: its the big companies way
struct: Buy the competition
Astrobytes: They could learn a lot from the topcoder model imo
Westicles: yeah, they see us whining about chat when they are talking about closing the site
Astrobytes: yeah, it's a slippery slope to the bottom
Inferno_dragon: yep
Inferno_dragon: I think Westicles right
Wontonimo: hmm ... how many times have I gone to the CG official discord channels this year? ... I have to try and remember if I even have. Oh, twice because someone messaged all moderators and I wanted the (1) symbol to go away from discord app
HenroLST: thats the most annoying thing
Wontonimo: i didn't read what was said, just clicked it to make the notification go away
Astrobytes: Yeah, like I said in my forum post, most of us keep it on silent because of the spam
HenroLST: just having one random noti
Ayza: cool trick, right click on the server and press mark as read
Ayza: don't even have to read the message
Astrobytes: "Mute" is better
Wontonimo: and which room would I go to for a casual hangout with the regular crew ?
Astrobytes: you're still in Shelter?
Ayza: I mute basically all servers
Wontonimo: yeah
Ayza: because I care about mentions only
Astrobytes: And I'm 'owner' of that so all good
Wontonimo: powned by Astro
Astrobytes: :D
Westicles: I just click the link above and have to put in a birthday every time
struct: the join discord?
Westicles: yeah
Astrobytes: you're not on that discord group
struct: I think they added verification to enter
struct: and captchas or something like that
Inferno_dragon: I rarely chat in Codingame discord
HenroLST: theres a verification?
Ayza: I think it'll be easier to build an anti spam bot in discord
struct: for discord server, but im not sure
Ayza: I've built one
Ayza: that's one positive thing: bots
Inferno_dragon: Or rework this chat
Inferno_dragon: cuz discord really annoying
Inferno_dragon: I don't think some puzzle newbie could handle without help
struct: I wonder what the % of member will move from chat to discord
struct: 5%?
Wontonimo: Astrobytes and struct , have either of you been experimenting with any new algos lately? I've been chatting with jace about his latest NN adventures. Cools stuff. I've got nothing
struct: not really I still want to try NN
struct: But I cant code lately
Astrobytes: Other than improving my alphabeta variations no, not really
Wontonimo: densely connected network is what jace used in the last contest! It worked really well for him. It has surprised me.
struct: This is 1 thing I found that it might be interesting for NNs but i dont have 1
struct: http://eprints.fri.uni-lj.si/4033/1/Vodopivec.pdf
struct: check page 117
HenroLST: hey is it possible to do a getline(cin, string) and somehow not pick up the spaces?
struct: Its like an improved UCB
Astrobytes: and I really should get my finger out my ass and start learning more about practical NN use
struct: That it works better for lower rollouts
Inferno_dragon: iff this chat die i will remember cg
Wontonimo: SARSA-UCT !?! that's cool
struct: dont think so HenroLST
struct: did you heard about it before Wontonimo?
HenroLST: oof ok, thanks
Astrobytes: Wontonimo: jaceks DQN for that contest was epic, he really smashed that
Wontonimo: no!
struct: the winrate vs normal UCB looked interesting so I shared it
struct: maybe someone with NNs can make it work
struct: :p
Westicles: HenroLST just do while(cin>>s)
HenroLST: ye but will it work if i want to distinguish different lines of input?
Inferno_dragon: thinking of heck
Astrobytes: montage of heck?
PewPewBewm: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/683b6899-3382-40fd-9cb8-f451ab398559
HenroLST: im getting two lines on input it two different getline() and i was wondering if i could do both getlines with spaces removed, sorry about vauge wording
Westicles: you could tokenize it with stringstream, and I think there is a fancy way to do it with c++17
PewPewBewm: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/1e9d00d8-fa38-4eb1-80fe-695daf5c96b9
struct: doesnt work pewpew
HenroLST: ok, ill look into it westicles, thanks so much !
PewPewBewm: Also... if you can see this. Everything I type shows up as a pastebin link at this end.
Astrobytes: Right, I need a snack and then sleep. Assuming the chat is still here tomorrow I'll see you all later :D
Wontonimo: where is the post-mortem for the green circle ?
struct: only if its more than 5 lines pewpew
struct: gn
Wontonimo: gn
Inferno_dragon: still wonder how could westicle did 17.632 puzzle
PewPewBewm: ah okay. gn
struct: https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/green-circle-feedback-strategies/196574
Astrobytes: https://forum.codingame.com/t/green-circle-feedback-strategies/196574/40
Inferno_dragon: gn
Astrobytes: dammit struct
Astrobytes: @D
HenroLST: fare thee well
Astrobytes: :D
NewCoder09: Atsrobyte struct and wontonimo yeah i used linear search
Inferno_dragon: omg how checking every check point???????????????
Astrobytes: HenroLST: very appropriate for what I was listening to earlier
PewPewBewm: This invisible mouse code window thing is annoying : /
HenroLST: hehe
Thorcode: python golfing dead in codingame really bad new for me
struct: why is it dead?
Thorcode: maybe Codingame kill the exec
Thorcode: oh nah
Thorcode: exec still alive
Thorcode: maybe Codingame only use latin
Westicles: 17.632 really? no wonder the backup took forever
struct: whats that number?
Westicles: I guess puzzles solved
Westicles: *27
Inferno_dragon: yep
Inferno_dragon: the puzzle you solved
Inferno_dragon: how
struct: number of puzzles * number of languages
Inferno_dragon: 27 languages 653*27 + 1
Inferno_dragon: cuz his c++ has 654
struct: yeah
struct: nintendo
Inferno_dragon: yep
Inferno_dragon: that's puzzle really trash only c++
Westicles: I used a linear search
Inferno_dragon: how could you solve that much Wontonimo
Inferno_dragon: oops wrong mention
Inferno_dragon: Westicles you have alot of spare time?
Westicles: yeah
Westicles: So much that I just made another stupid math clash
Inferno_dragon: but 27 lang 653 kinda insane
struct: he even had to learn D
Inferno_dragon: or has a lang transalator
Inferno_dragon: I think that's the best suit
Inferno_dragon: or he is a genius
Ayza: must be a language translator
Ayza: imagine the 100+ lines solution puzzles
Ayza: even so it's cool to have a language translator for this many languages
Inferno_dragon: so we must respect him
struct: he is indeed a genius
Inferno_dragon: cuz he has a language trans
Inferno_dragon: he made i think
Inferno_dragon: probably he is a genius
Inferno_dragon: like mark or elon musk
struct: is that the genius standard nowadays?
Inferno_dragon: or davinci?
Inferno_dragon: cuz this is the tech world not the standard genius
struct: ah
struct: so marketing genius
Inferno_dragon: ok
Inferno_dragon: i just compare genious in their world not orther world
Westicles: too bad france is asleep they would love this
struct: we comparing you to a genius Westicles?
struct: or comparing you to musk
struct: ahah
Westicles: any and all :P
Inferno_dragon: yep you are the controlversial topic with my friend
Inferno_dragon: even me
Ayza: compare him to me :slight_smile:
Ayza: ends up being a 0 for me and a 100 for him
Inferno_dragon: or compare him to a hecker
Inferno_dragon: a spy like euler
Inferno_dragon: for me euler like an agent and wes is i don't know
Inferno_dragon: still thinking about the language transalator
Inferno_dragon: that's seem cool
HenroLST: huh
Wontonimo: gn
struct: gn
Ayza: gn
Thorcode: gn
HenroLST: gn
Mortis_666: gn
eulerscheZahl: gn
DrGarryRKatz: gn
Dapps: gn
StevenV: gm
NewCoder09: gn
N0np4w1t_0p4t: :yum:
RandomSteve: I kinda wanted to try the java certification test (I would probably not pass it) but terms and conditions say I should only do it if invited by a recruiter, yikes idk
