ggenilson: Morning Guys
NuggetsAreTasty: Hi
Alemhan: hi
Smelty: goood night yall
scripto_entity_1010: goodnight
Pizza_Steve: Anyone up ?
aCat: yep ;]
Pizza_Steve: Level 38 ._.
Pizza_Steve: Oh man
aCat: I know, I know :(:(
aCat: shamely low
Pizza_Steve: You shouldn't be sad >:((
Pizza_Steve: LOOW?
Pizza_Steve: Cmon
aCat: but I'm trying to progress
Pizza_Steve: Shushushush
aCat: :joy_cat:
ArtLiteracyStory: Hello world
Pizza_Steve: Hello buddy
nightmarex: hi c:
Pizza_Steve: Hi :>
micoze-stella: hi
micoze-stella: shitty
Pizza_Steve: Hi
utshab: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/17792397b28e27dd225603d7669711a65d90bf6
utshab: anyone
utshab: ?
utshab: without shortest mode
Nino_le_bg: hi
rdj_07: How to give custom input ?
SubwayMan: Is there a way to turn off the suggestions dialog that appears while typing in editor? It's annoyingly large and blocks vision
Uljahn: rdj_07: set mode to Expert in settings, but not all puzzles support custom inputs
Uljahn: SubwayMan: block lsp-community.codingame.com
Nino_le_bg: i am underwater please help me
Stormalix: ha
Stormalix: i read that as underwear :pensive:
derjack: oO
Stormalix: u knoew im getting sleepyu when i cant read or type
Nino_le_bg: ohohohoohohoohohoohoho
PureKsos: i love woman
PureKsos: https://escape.codingame.com/?fromToken=Gru-LQL-IjC-Ck6
sdbbr: One of those days https://escape.codingame.com/?fromToken=4Vl-0Wg-Jv3-V7V
NguyenBin217: tình yêu cứ thế đông đầy
khaleo: ???
paul_pvc: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/1779369c4c3f1bdb9c1ac7ada2c6ef1f15d533b
derjack: oh my
Uljahn: Automaton2000: buruh
Automaton2000: if you have a working bot
DavidGisser: has anyone seen a DFS/BFS question in the wild here
derjack: on the chat?
Uljahn: there are some puzzles with BFS/DFS tags
https://www.codingame.com/learn/BFS
https://www.codingame.com/learn/DFS
StrykrJ: If anyone is looking for a another cool multiplayer bot arena competition -- a friend of mine created this one and it's pretty addictive
https://www.codingame.com/ide/puzzle/volcanoes
Westicles: Would be nice to have a Pentakis icosidodecahedron tag
derjack: its approved, noice
Greg_3141: Why isn't unlambda supported as a language? It's almost like codingame doesn't want to support readable and performant code
sprkrd: probably because they don't even know it exists
Westicles: It's almost like nobody has asked them to add it in the thread where that is done
sprkrd: I was just kidding, it's the first time I hear about that language
sprkrd: So many languages today
sprkrd: And still the best one is C :wink:
Uljahn: i guess adding support for a new language is non-trivial, even updating current set of languages is hard for CG admins due to legacy architecture decisions
sprkrd: so... you were being ironic right, Greg_3141?
sprkrd: This thing doesn't seem readable at all
sprkrd: It seems worse that Perl
sprkrd: Damn, it looks like it's in the same leaghe as brainfuck
sprkrd: league*
AYB: who done Simplified Monopoly™ Turns Prediction??
Westicles: Yes, CG broke all my code golfs with the last update. Let us pray they don't ever run a leaderboard refresh
derjack: so CG broke your CGs
sprkrd: Code Golfs broke his CodinGames
darkhorse64: Which code golfs are broken ?
Westicles: mine
Westicles: ruby is no longer findable without the full path
darkhorse64: Ruby is beyond my comprehension. No worries then for me. Tx
AYB: hi
cool333: hi
MXgms: 👋
linjoehan: I'm in here now, and also at work in a meeting on zoom and also at home. times have changed.
derjack: :v
linjoehan: Is that supposed to be pacman? you know he has no eyes right
derjack: v
Tychkorg69: s3x?
Tychkorg69: any egirl?
Tychkorg69: me licky egirl
Tychkorg69: dm me
Westicles: the clash bots want women?
Tomm113: fuck
IIKINGIIArthur: hai oi
IIKINGIIArthur: hai
Tomm113: an khùng
IIKINGIIArthur: I'm Huan Rose
IIKINGIIArthur: I'm from VietNam
laiyuan: :wave:
Tomm113: ngọc ơi
Pearl23: hú
IIKINGIIArthur: ???
Pearl23: ???
Tomm113: fowwloaf mới mời dc
IIKINGIIArthur: ai zay
DatHaHa: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/17797361120fa350b1bb7d1d774706ca5a6aced
IIKINGIIArthur: Huan Hoa hHong
DatHaHa: vo
DatHaHa: go
DatHaHa: go
Pearl23: ỏ
Pearl23: vô r nè
IIKINGIIArthur: join di
DatHaHa: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/17797361120fa350b1bb7d1d774706ca5a6aced
KalamariKing: Not sure what language that is, but we try to keep #world in english
anon777: https://www.webcountdown.net/?c=1622221200&up=1
anon777: missend
anon777: ignore pls
KalamariKing: will not
anon777: haha
Pearl23: Herosy ai v?
Tomm113: đạt hà
Tomm113: me out
Pearl23: ủa, mn có chơi nữa hong
Pearl23: vô để coi đề nè
Tomm113: có
KalamariKing: #vn
IIKINGIIArthur: doi xiu
IIKINGIIArthur: cbi choi hoi dong
KalamariKing: Vui lòng nói tiếng Anh
Tomm113: đéo
KalamariKing: thanks google
IIKINGIIArthur: :)
Pearl23: no, sorry, i don't speak
DatHaHa: ai vô k
IIKINGIIArthur: nhanh nhanh
DatHaHa: hu
IIKINGIIArthur: go go go
DatHaHa: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/177976008da07d64b67d81535870f5109e3455b
IIKINGIIArthur: :stuck_out_tongue:
Tomm113: dahaha chấp hết
DatHaHa: :joy:
KalamariKing: sau đó chuyển sang #vn, world chat chỉ có tiếng Anh
Tomm113: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/17798136dcf708eb53d8a5dd8ab55dfea1307c9
KalamariKing: we're back to english now yes?
KiwiTae: also Tomm113 #clash don't spam general hehe
AntiSquid:
Tomm113 has been kicked by AntiSquid.
DatHaHa has been kicked by AntiSquid.
AntiSquid: #vn was mentioned twice
KalamariKing: thanks anti
AlexanderImbault: Hey I just filled out a profile and it asked me if I wanted to take a 30 minute technical test to boost my profile. I am a bit busy now and don't have the time, how can I come back to that and take it later?
derjack: huh
KalamariKing: I don't think I've ever seen that
KalamariKing: And I thought chat was level 3
ZarthaxX: huh how is the lvl 2 talking e.e
KiwiTae: u can access the chat lvl1 if u good
ZarthaxX: lol
Scarfield: the minimum lvl for world chat was changed during a contest i think euler said, then never changed back - also hi :)
ZarthaxX: oh
ZarthaxX: HAI scarfo
Scarfield: oi
Scarfield: trying to fix UTTT, was my first attempt at MCTS. Damn its a mess xD
ZarthaxX: haha
ZarthaxX: im gonna try that one soon i think
MSmits: just keep it really really simple at first. 500-600 lines is possible
struct: mine is under 500
MSmits: my current version is 2k lines
struct: im rewriting it atm
struct: 2k o.o
MSmits: but i think it's 300 lines of just different expansion functions :P
ZarthaxX: legend with 500 lines??
MSmits: yeah possible
MSmits: easily
ZarthaxX: for real
ZarthaxX: i guess you need an optimized board tho
MSmits: well easily if you're good at optimizing
ZarthaxX: uttt performance was key right?
ZarthaxX: just to have in mind
struct: took me like 2-3 days
MSmits: it's not enough though, if you want top 20
ZarthaxX: struct you are too good
MSmits: if you optimize to the max and do nothing else, you will not hit top 20 i think
ZarthaxX: MSmits talking about getting into legend at least
MSmits: yeah optimization is enough for that
ZarthaxX: i guess you need to modify rollouts tho
MSmits: I got in with C#
struct: is solver + the teccles + fast good enough for top 20?
MSmits: and it was vanilla
MSmits: struct, might be
struct: + reutilizing tree
struct: I dont do any of that atm
MSmits: well i dont really reuse tree
Scarfield: :o
MSmits: well the thing is i have reuse code
struct: why not?
MSmits: coded
MSmits: but i make assumptions about the opponent
Scarfield: all that pressious data
MSmits: if the assumptions are wrong, tree is reset
KalamariKing: precious*
MSmits: and they are often wrong
struct: ah
struct: you prune enemy actions?
MSmits: i assume opponent uses teccles
MSmits: so if he doesnt, i have no tree to reuse
ZarthaxX: oh c# legend
struct: Does it play worse if you dont assume he plays teccles?
ZarthaxX: nice then
Scarfield: was about to look up the spelling, but figured you would know what i meant KalamariKing, but ty :)
MSmits: not sure struct, but the idea is that you assume your opponent plays well, if you think teccles is optimal play, why not assume your opponent uses it
struct: because you will be able to reuse tree more often
struct: everytime*
MSmits: yes but that seems pointless, i mean the whole idea is to explore with mcts. If your opponent is going to pick a bad move, you're not going to have much of a tree to use either
MSmits: you're just extending that idea to not having a tree at all
MSmits: and having more of a tree from the teccles node
struct: well cant you have larger exploration factor while you are still playing teccles?
MSmits: sure, but why?
MSmits: every visit that goes outside of the teccles branch is not going to the teccles branch
MSmits: so it weakens the teccles branch reuse
MSmits: and thats the most likely move
struct: ah I see
struct: but are the others that much worse?
MSmits: maybe not, but even if they are just as good, the gain by placing a visit in a different branch is 0
MSmits: only if the other branches are better, is it different
MSmits: also remember that the effect of tree reuse is minimal
MSmits: you lose most of the visits anyway
struct: I think it would be worth it
MSmits: oh, tree reuse is worth it, but the gain is around 10% or so
MSmits: if your guess about teccles is correct, then the gain is 100%
MSmits: because you keep the full tree
MSmits: if it's not correct, it's a small loss
MSmits: since almost every top player uses teccles...
MSmits: even the NN's use it most of the time
RoboStac: just checking a random game on mine (I've got no pruning) the teccles moves get 90% of the visits
MSmits: yeah, that kinda makes sense
MSmits: that means tree reuse for the other moves does almost nothing
struct: yours is NN too?
RoboStac: so at most the tree reuse is starting with 400 visits which is basically just noise once you get past the enemy turn
struct: oh I see you climbed, nice
MSmits: oh hey RoboStac, this is for sure a NN
MSmits: right?
RoboStac: yeah
KalamariKing: whats it called when a nn plays itself to train
KalamariKing: rl + ___
RoboStac: I finally worked out what I was doing wrong
RoboStac: selfplay
KalamariKing: yeah
KalamariKing: how high would rl+selfplay get
MSmits: what were you doing wrong RoboStac?
MSmits: KalamariKing in most boardgames, rank 1
MSmits: if you do it better than others
RoboStac: a few things - I'd reused my original code so it was pruning moves. Also changing the input format so small boards didn't have the leftover moves on helped a lot.
MSmits: what are leftover moves?
RoboStac: the final state of the small board
RoboStac: it's irrelevant to the eval
RoboStac: other than win / loss / draw
MSmits: oh right
MSmits: all this NN action only shows how amazing karliso's bot is :P
struct: MSmits do you take into account if the miniboard can still be finished by either player?
1415495: selfplay may or may not converge to a stable policy or cycle through multiple policies, I think that if it does converge to a stable policy, then it is a nash equilibirum but I am unsure that I have correctly understood the theory on that point
MSmits: yeah struct
MSmits: i do
ddreams: which game are you talking about?
MSmits: ultimate tic tac toe ddreams
struct: thanks, I was thinking on also adding that
MSmits: I have a really slow expansion function that checks all that stuff
ddreams: right, never tried
MSmits: is a win still possible for p1, for p2 etc.
struct: yeah, makes sense
MSmits: only have like 60k-65k rollouts now
struct: "only"
MSmits: well at one time i could get 130k on a good cpu :)
MSmits: when expanding i also exclude moves where the opponent could get a win if you made them
MSmits: so if a winning board is in the top left corner for opponent
MSmits: then i never allow any top left moves in any miniboard, nor do i allow moves giving a free move
MSmits: unless they are winning moves
MSmits: expansion is almost like a ply 2 mimimax
struct: even if the opponent move would allow you to place anywhere in the board?
struct: ah I see
MSmits: no i mean a game winning move
struct: yeah
MSmits: so if the opponent can get 3 boards in a row by winning top left and he can win there with 1 opporunity to move
struct: Understood, thanks
MSmits: kk
MSmits: all these checks are quite slow
MSmits: which is why i have different expansion functions
MSmits: one for early game and one for mid game
MSmits: so < 2 boards finished, i use the early game expansion which is fast
KalamariKing: could you somehow use online matches for rl?
struct: I see
MSmits: kinda KalamariKing
MSmits: you can download json files and use the gamestates for learning
MSmits: it's more supervised though
MSmits: well not sure, in any case, you can use the information
MSmits: however, this is *very* similar to counterbooking
MSmits: because you're learning to counter that specific player you're downloading matches against
MSmits: probably, if the other player submits a new version, all that learning is wasted
MSmits: proper self-play learning that guarantees generalization is better
KalamariKing: ok true
MSmits: but i proved that that can be counterbooked against also, because these bots usually become deterministic to some extent. my conclusion is that we should just avoid counterbooking. It's unbeatable
KiwiTae: u use cg api to download the matches streams?
KalamariKing: but if both players in self-play converge to an 'ideal' play-style, then the games will all be exactly the same and no learning will be done
KalamariKing: if that makes sense
KalamariKing: the 'ideal' playstyle would only be ideal when playing itself
MSmits: KalamariKing the problem is that a NN never becomes perfect. It almost always makes at least one mistake
RoboStac: you need some sort of noise/randomness in selfplay to stop it being deterministic
MSmits: and from a solved game perspective, a single mistake is enough to turn a win in a loss
MSmits: into
MSmits: RoboStac yeah, but this is not easy to do. Jacek mostly manages it, but if I want to, I can still counter it to a 50+ % win
RoboStac: yeah, but thats the submitted versions
MSmits: yes, and he can always resubmit
RoboStac: the learning in selfplay has a lot more randomness
MSmits: it has to
MSmits: or it wont be generalized
RoboStac: yeah
MSmits: RoboStac do you think if you knew for every gamestate in oware, what the solved value is, you'd be able to make a better NN?
MSmits: say assuming there are infinite turns (thats more doable)
MSmits: turn limit complicates things
MSmits: I'm just wondering if a supervised learning bot using these values would do better than a good selflplay bot
MSmits: you could make it do selfplay anyways, but instead of using values from the rollout, you just take the states and look up the game-theoretical value
RoboStac: I've no idea. I'd be worried about really long sequences of moves that lead to a win but are hard to find
RoboStac: because you'd be teaching it this state is good, but it might not be able to find out why
MSmits: this is from a policy perspective right
MSmits: i should clarify, you have the solved seed counts, not just the WLD
RoboStac: value too - it won't be perfectly accurate so you might get some states on the way that eval slightly lower
MSmits: right, so you're saying selfplay would value states that win much later, lower, so that you will be able to win sooner
RoboStac: well, it would probably just never find the long sequence of exactly perfect moves
RoboStac: I'm not sure how much that is an issue in oware
MSmits: right, it's a valid concern
RoboStac: I think it would probably work quite well though
MSmits: I want to set up supervised learning for oware. Trying to enlarge my endgame db to 30 seeds or so and use a well searched meta mcts for the 31-48 seeds
MSmits: ingame, it would have a 9 or 10 endgame db, so it doesnt need to learn on that part
MSmits: still not sure about the one-hot part
MSmits: i get why you and jacek use one-hot, but ... soooo many inputs
MSmits: for my TTT, one hot wasnt better. Not that that proves anything
Uljahn: just more features for nn to choose from
MSmits: yeah, oware is special because specific seed counts do different thing
Uljahn: also RL with expert demonstrations (replay data) is called Imitation Learning
https://smartlabai.medium.com/a-brief-overview-of-imitation-learning-8a8a75c44a9c
MSmits: so it makes sense to one-hot them
MSmits: ahh ok
MSmits: isnt RL a huge umbrella term?
MSmits: requiring clarification every time?
Uljahn: true
-oa-: hi all!
MSmits: hi -oa-
derjack: moshi moshi
KalamariKing: MSmits you say rl is an umbrella term... what's under it?
derjack: well is alphazero-like really RL? or more like self supervised learning but it gets labels from searched self
MSmits: KalamariKing I am not an expert, but when i google RL I find tons and tons of different things
MSmits: TD learning is RL for example
KalamariKing: td?
MSmits: temporal difference
herrmann: Generally, if you learn a function Q(S,A) "what's the value of applying action A in state S" it's RL
MSmits: but that's Q learning
MSmits: isnt it?
derjack: q learning is rl
MSmits: right
MSmits: so that was my point :P
MSmits: it's all RL
herrmann: AlphaZero has V(S) and a policy pi(S) -> A
herrmann: V(S) is the marginalized Q(S,A)
KalamariKing: What IS q-learning
Uljahn: what is learning
MSmits: i can tell you the simples possible form of Q learning
herrmann: These things are "RLish", but, yes, it's a large sub-area
derjack: but it periodically gathers experience into buffer and then learns from it in supervised fashion
KalamariKing: learn a func to predict gamestate at next timesetep?
MSmits: play games, learn for every possible state what the best action was
KalamariKing: I see
MSmits: put it all in a table
MSmits: and play games using that table
KalamariKing: That doesnt seem very nn tho
MSmits: it's not
KalamariKing: oh ok
MSmits: well
MSmits: it doesnt have neurons
MSmits: it's ML though
KalamariKing: how does it learn?
KalamariKing: as in how does it update past experience
derjack: you can change table into nn
KalamariKing: but then is it q learning
herrmann: Experience Replay is also a form of making supervised learning into reinforcement learning
MSmits: every time it plays a game, it checks all states it has seen and updates with the endgame value
KalamariKing: or just rl
MSmits: i can give you an example of Q learning, sec
MSmits: https://trinket.io/python/6cd0e1872a?outputOnly=true
MSmits: play like 10 games or so
MSmits: and you will start losing
MSmits: because it is q-learning
herrmann: Tabular Q-learning is RL without a NN, but if that table is huge you won't be able to have values for every cell, so you need to generalize, and for that you can use a NN or something else
MSmits: btw, the goal of the game is using pawn moves and reaching the other side, if you cant move, you lose
MSmits: rules are close to breakthrough, but not exactly
KalamariKing: I see your point MSmits its starting to learn
MSmits: if you change the adress to outputonly = false, you can see the code
MSmits: but it's probably not easy to read
MSmits: it's basically using a table of states and their possible moves
KalamariKing: yeah
MSmits: remembering the succes of earlier games sort of
KalamariKing: interesting
KalamariKing: so that's q learning you said?
MSmits: it takes current value * (1 - lr) + latest result * lr
MSmits: lr being learning rate
MSmits: it has 50% learning rate or s
MSmits: o
MSmits: yes its q learning
MSmits: but super simple, because it only works for simple games
MSmits: you cant do this for a game with billions of states or more
herrmann: Q-learning is for when you don't know the dynamics... here the dynamics are usually given in the form of te game's rules
MSmits: yeah it is, but you can use it also when you do know the dynamics
MSmits: you can even use it to solve a maze
herrmann: Yes, but usually not the full Q(S,A) learning
MSmits: instead of a pathfinding algorithm
herrmann: AlphaZero is an example too
MSmits: could that be considered Q learning?
herrmann: Not Q-learning, but "yes RL" ;-)
MSmits: ah yes
MSmits: it's all RL :)
herrmann: (Astronaut meme)
MSmits: dont know that meme
DominoSv: hey im new here
MSmits: but i am not an astronaut, so makes sense!
Uljahn: always has been
DominoSv: i have little experince with code
MSmits: hi DominoSv
DominoSv: can someone help me
MSmits: with ?
herrmann: https://imgflip.com/i/5baeji
MSmits: oh "real"
MSmits: I was thinking "Red leader" from star wars
DominoSv: i am trying to code my bot. i have reached the part where i need the checkpoint angle and distance but i dont know what to do
struct: reset the code
struct: top right of ide
MSmits: csb is flawed in that the input changes, so your old code doesnt exactly work anymore
DominoSv: ok
MSmits: other games usually dont have this, the game changes but the input stays the same
DominoSv: i have reset
MSmits: then you can start coding again :)
KiwiTae: enjoy :hug:
DominoSv: i dont know what to do
derjack: oo
Uljahn: think
struct: There is a tutorial
struct: I think
MSmits: DominoSv I would suggest trying practice puzzles if you're just trying to get better at using code to solve problems
MSmits: easy ones
MSmits: try multiple different ones if you fail on a lot of them. If you can tsolve a single one, then you need more basic training in your language
DominoSv: ok
MSmits: it's ok to be stuck for an hour on an easy practice puzzle, if you're new, but not half a day
MSmits: when i learned python with easy puzzles i sometimes took an hour because i couldnt figure out how to make python do what i wanted
DominoSv: i am trying to learn c#
MSmits: that was my first language
MSmits: its a good place to start
DominoSv: thx
DominoSv: any more pointers
ddreams: those are more common in C/C++
DominoSv: oh ok
ddreams: :p
ddreams: C# is a great language
MSmits: ddreams is making a c++ joke DominoSv, pointers are a thing in c++
MSmits: DominoSv use google a lot
MSmits: in fact you can find whole solutions to the most common puzzles here, but try not to copy them, bette rto find it yourself
Astheod: As my teacher in Java would say read the ****ing Javadoc :joy:
Wontonimo: good morning (or afternoon for those on the other side of the planet)
MSmits: morning
Wontonimo: I haven't tried searching for CG puzzles. Seems like the worst of spoilers
MSmits: well i havent tried either, but my students have :P
Wontonimo: being a student is very hard balance between real learning and performing on assignments and tests
MSmits: yep
ddreams: well, if you only focus on the first you should do well on the second
MSmits: but might be more time intensive in the short term
Wontonimo: but it takes much more effort. yeah, what MSmits said ^^
Wontonimo: i agree with you ddreams, and mostly tried to do that in uni
Wontonimo: my grades weren't awesome, but man did i learn a lot
ddreams: which is the only thing that matters in my opinion
reCurse: Seems naive
reCurse: The second is most important while you try to fit in the first through other means
ddreams: What's naive?
MSmits: from a effort vs immediate reward perspective you are right
reCurse: Focusing on the first doing well on the second
reCurse: Is naive imo
MSmits: that's not a general truth. It depends a lot on the quality of education and quality of testing
MSmits: if the education is bad or the test is bad, then you're right
reCurse: I've yet to see that work out, but I won't pretend I know every education of course
derjack: the point is: dont overfit to test :*
MSmits: I'd like to think I mostly succeed in this in my physics or CS testing at least.
MSmits: well overfitting definitely happens :)
reCurse: I might have just a strong bias against classes shrug
Wontonimo: are we talking bias and overfitting again? :D
MSmits: I've mentored some students that told me they were pissed at their math teacher
Wontonimo: why?
MSmits: "He taught us how pentagons work and on the test he did a hexagon:
Wontonimo: yeah, that's sad
derjack: bias against classes? so youre into struct?
MSmits:
struct > class no typing public
MSmits: less typing = good
Wontonimo: lol
MSmits: it's just confusing when coming from C#
MSmits: structs are completely different there
ddreams: I think formal education is a waste of time for many people.. with careful selection of subjects you could manage to pass the CS curriculum with a bare minimum of coding experience
ddreams: at least at my uni
reCurse: Still need to go through it to open the doors
reCurse: Just need a side-study to do the learning that matters
ddreams: for programmers, the door is quite open
Greg_3141: Why would you go to university for practical coding experience? You can do that at a job; that way you get paid instead of paying a university
jacek: bronze in code a la mode :tada:
Greg_3141: your bot must be very advanced
reCurse: Yeah good luck getting the job
reCurse: You probably won't make it past the basic filters
ddreams: I did it myself, worked for several years before going to uni
Greg_3141: depends on the job, but even $30k/year is better than a negative salary (AKA tuition fees)
MSmits: reCurse i think the bias in your experience is strong (not your fault), all my RL friends have the same experience. They did 5 years of computer science and at the end they barely learned to code
reCurse: Not if you make a lot more after you're doing with tuition
MSmits: my experience in physics is way different
Wontonimo: i don't know what it is like now at uni, but there internet was very young when I went and Netscape just release the first browser. Uni was very important then. I imagine with so much online now, the education system is undergoing huge change and an existential crisis
Wontonimo: but I don't have first hand experience in this new era
reCurse: It's still a basic filter to weed out thousands of resumes
reCurse: You can still make do without, just on hard mode instead
ddreams: really? I thought it'd be more important now.. I got hired in '00 after finishing high school
Greg_3141: From what I can tell, the point of a CS degree is to understand the theory of the subject (algorithms, grammars, etc). IMO complaining that you didn't get much coding experience as a CS major is like complaining that you didn't do a bunch of integrals by hand as a math major
ddreams: I think the competition is much greater now
jacek: nowadays in CS/IT studies, if you dont do almost all by yourself, youll learn nothing
MSmits: I wonder how hard it would be for me to get a coding job
ddreams: Very easy, I believe
jacek: in other studies like physics it is less noticeable
MSmits: I have a physics master and only CS teaching degree, not an actual CS bachelor or master
reCurse: Greg you're correct in theory and technically
reCurse: In practice tons of people go through that with the expectation of having a job, which is a reasonable one
reCurse: And the system fails them
Wontonimo: physics master gets you in. it's a math background, grounded in logic and deduction
MSmits: ah ok cool
ddreams: even without your physics, you could probably have a job next week if you wanted
MSmits: I guess it depends on how picky you are. Coders seem to be in short supply
KalamariKing: There's a shortage of cs majors who actually know how to code
KalamariKing: its all theoretical nowadays, and businesses can;t use that
ddreams: Exactly
reCurse: They want the degree and the relevant knowledge
reCurse: That's why you need to do both
reCurse: It sucks but that's how it is
MSmits: we have a level of education thats below university, but still called higher education, it gives out bacherlors degrees. That's not theoretical at all. These guys know how to code
ddreams: If you're good at coding, you don't need it, imo
reCurse: You will close yourself a ton of doors
reCurse: You might still go through
reCurse: Just be warned
Wontonimo: 2/3rds of our developers are front end. make buttons clickable, format the page, get the right colours displayed. Don't need a lot of algorithm theory for that, you need dedication to grind and speed
MSmits: this seems like a horrible job to me :(
MSmits: well maybe not horrible
Greg_3141: yeah probably is
MSmits: but not fun
Wontonimo: I am not in that group. it would be a horrible job for me too
ddreams: Backend is a much better place
Greg_3141: you could probably get a job as a quantum computing researcher or something
Greg_3141: if you wanted to
MSmits: nahh too late for that Greg_3141 :)
MSmits: my masters was astrophysics
MSmits: lots of computer science goes into that field as well
MSmits: modelling and working with tons of data
Wontonimo: then you are in.
MSmits: probably some machine learning as well these days
Greg_3141: They're starting to use machine learning at CERN, it's pretty interesting
KalamariKing: Machine learning for? astrophysics?
linjoehan: lol I got kicked from my last job because our team started doing frontend stuff. It's boring and I don't know how to do it.
MSmits: I am pretty sure they created neural networks for spectral classification already
MSmits: without needing to look that up
KalamariKing: Wow alright
MSmits: https://arxiv.org/abs/1412.8341
MSmits: just looked it up :P
Wontonimo: from 2014 none-the-less
KalamariKing: Yeah, wow
ddreams: perhaps you ML masters should join the cancer mole recognition competition
ddreams: https://siim.org/page/melanoma_classification_challenge
MSmits: ye moles are a cancer, all those holes in your backyard
Wontonimo: ML is just getting into anything to do with classification, clustering, and search
jacek: who cares about cancer. im waiting for certain bioengineering task
Wontonimo: which bioengineering task?
KalamariKing: I saw something like that, that ml is used for detecting cancer and diabetes/kidney damage and stuff
jacek: https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-79a3cbbe45b61891c1cab3435dfdb090.webp
MSmits: biology has an entire field where they identify species and such. Those guys will be redundant unless they get into ML themselves
reCurse: People seem to forget you still need datasets...
Greg_3141: What certifications do recruiters on codingame look for? Silver? Gold? Legend?
MSmits: yeah ofc
ddreams: Datasets are part of the competition
reCurse: I was responding to MSmits
linjoehan: I think there was a dog trained to sniff for cancer so we've had the technology for a while
ddreams: ah, right
Wontonimo: i have no idea Greg_3141 . I've not been contacted, so couldn't tell you.
KalamariKing: Companies contact people on cg?
reCurse: I don't think any recruiter cares at all about CG certifications
reCurse: I wouldn't bother putting those
KalamariKing: I knew they did for sponsored contests, etc
MSmits: nah they just make you solve a puzzle here
KalamariKing: oh ok cool
MSmits: one time I got 69th out of 1000 on some sponsored contest and I accidentally checked the contact for jobs box
MSmits: and got a phone call
MSmits: from France...
Bishwo: nice
KalamariKing: lol looking to move
MSmits: then I said I wasnt looking for a job in France
reCurse: :french_bread:
ZarthaxX: lol
MSmits: and they called me back a few days later
linjoehan: I'd mention CG but not to the recruiter though bring it up in your later interviews
ZarthaxX: nice :O
MSmits: with a job offer from England
ZarthaxX: O.O
MSmits: this is with 69th rank :P
Wontonimo: there you go, why you asking if you can get a coding job?
ZarthaxX: what contest was this
MSmits: Amadeus i think
MSmits: the gitc clone
KalamariKing: you're not in the states right
reCurse: Sponsored competition is different though, that was the whole point
MSmits: I am in the Netherlands
reCurse: CG certifications though, different altogether
KalamariKing: y'all are weird. I heard something that you all won't drive 30-40 minutes for a good job opportunity... over here, living 2-3 hours from your job is normal
jacek: sounds like US thing
Wontonimo: that sir is weird
MSmits: you mean you *think* it's normal, but you're all out of your mind :P
ddreams: and you drive there every day?
ddreams: or do you have an apartment there?
ZarthaxX: ah amadeus one, makes more sense then
MSmits: I have to travel 60 min to my job, 35 min train 25 min walk
Wontonimo: that is a significant portion of your life driving
MSmits: people consider me to live far from work
Wontonimo: 60 min is more reasonable, with a good amount being exercise
ddreams: yeah, I have refused jobs 60 minutes driving away
Greg_3141: may as well become a trucker then, if you drive 4 to 6 hours per day :)
MSmits: Wontonimo yeah and i get to work/relax in train, using train wifi (that mostly works)
Illedan: Being a trucker would give me more time for hobby coding though :D
ddreams: I've basically worked mostly remotely since 2011 though
Illedan: *more mental capacity
MSmits: Illedan maybe when self driving cars get better :P
MSmits: oh mental capacity.. sure
Illedan: Where do you work ddreams?
Wontonimo: i've been remote for the last 4 years. It's been great. I don't want to go back
jacek: then release another virus
jacek: [solved]
ddreams: I work as a consultant in my own company
MSmits: lol
Greg_3141: nice
Illedan: Chill
Wontonimo: but you must have clients, or the revenue will be low
ddreams: so for several different clients
jacek: do you like your boss
Illedan: I guess it's complicated
ddreams: hehe
MSmits: he doesnt have a boss, he's a consultant
ddreams: currently writing ship simulators for Kongsberg Maritime
Wontonimo: he has multiple bosses
MSmits: nice
Greg_3141: what software do you use for it, if any? Unity, maybe?
MSmits: unreal engine?
Wontonimo: what kind of things are you simulating with about the ships? voyage, cargo, repairs and maintenance ?
Illedan: Maybe going full CG on the simulation? Meta MCTS ship search?
ddreams: currently they're using an in-house engine
MSmits: maybe it's one of those ships that is self-sustaining to house the last remaining survivors of the apocalypse
Wontonimo: and is self aware
MSmits: yeah
Greg_3141: Interesting. Does it look good?
ddreams: it looks pretty crap, compared to games
MSmits: Greg_3141 goes straight to the center of the matter
struct: it doesnt need to look good
Greg_3141: come on, it can't look bad compared to roblox
ddreams: all the focus have been on accuracy
jacek: is this for ooc
Illedan: I heard about that engine during a job interview last year
Wontonimo: i would be worried if it looked awesome; sure sign that it is all smoke and mirrors in the backend cuz they spent all their money on flashy flash
ddreams: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/videos/new-police-coast-guard-simulators-make-training-safer-more-13154072#.X3E5uGVxgdo.whatsapp
Greg_3141: looks kind of like roblox
struct: so its a bot simulator
struct: nice
Wontonimo: oh, that kind of simulation. I thought it was a logistics simulation not a pilot sim
MSmits: that needs a lot of physics
struct: im going to port it
struct: to cg
Illedan: OOC 3D?
Greg_3141: I wonder how Roblox manages to charge such a high rate for people to use their shitty engine
Westicles: can it sim going sideways in the suez canal?
struct: you need suez dlc for that
KalamariKing: There's plenty of 6yr olds to play roblox, so if the devs can get in-app purchases, they're making bank
ddreams: haha, yes, would be fun to set up that exercise
struct: Does it also generate real world?
struct: like flight simulator
MSmits: isnt flight simulator real world mostly used to find your house and crash it there ?
ddreams: generate? all the exercise areas are prepared in advance
ddreams: there are some visuals generated
struct: I think current flight simulator generates real map
Greg_3141: You should make a somalian hijacker exercise
struct: based on satelite image
MSmits: yeah, so your house is on there
sprkrd: Flight simulator 2020 simulates even real time weather
sprkrd: It even has integration with a training platform for ATC
sprkrd: So you get realistic dialog from ATC trainees
sprkrd: However it has a bad reputation regarding the gigantic size of the game (around 120GB I believe, and then you have to download 100GB more for the first update)
MSmits: ouch
struct: dont you also download stuff while playing?
sprkrd: real time satellite images, probably?
struct: I guess so
reCurse: Realistic visuals, small file size, pick one
sprkrd: and weather info
sprkrd: I think the bulk of the game is the map
sprkrd: I guess it downloads a default map for the whole world for when you're playing offline
sprkrd: Google Earth style
reCurse: If that's the main complaint the game is doing very fine
Westicles: about the same size as MS Word
ddreams: yeah, would be a nonissue for me
ddreams: assuming I'd be interested in flight sims
sprkrd: I don't think it's too bad either
sprkrd: But I'm not such a fan of planes either :joy:
Wontonimo: is there multiplayer where you have to coordinate landing at the same airport?
sprkrd: Yes
Wontonimo: nice
sprkrd: That's one of the selling points
KalamariKing: :o
KalamariKing: that sounds epic
sprkrd: You share airspace and airports with other pilots and with ATC trainees
Wontonimo: could also train as a ATC
sprkrd: if you play online, that is
sprkrd: But that was the case also in the previous FS
sprkrd: Except ATCs were mostly regular Doufus and Roufus, not serious ATC trainees
Wontonimo: compared to the cost of actual flight classes, it's a fantastic alternative
sprkrd: And there are more trolls
sprkrd: I mean, you should do both if you wanna fly real life :joy:
sprkrd: Otherwise you won't get your licence
Wontonimo: i've heard that US fighter pilots spend a lot of time in simulators vs real flights
Greg_3141: flight simulators are fun
sprkrd: For fighter planes there are better simulators than FS
AntiSquid: you doing kaggle ddreams ?
ddreams: not really
ddreams: you?
ddreams: mentored a young guy for that melanoma competition I mentioned earlier
ddreams: otherwise I've only been browsing them
KalamariKing: splix.io with hexagons?
KalamariKing: good idea for personal challenge or no
KalamariKing: I've never done too much game dev so is there something rather complex I just can't see
AntiSquid: ya that contest ended a long time ago ddreams
Westicles: Hexagons are passe. Now everyone is doing Pentakis Icosidodecahedrons
AntiSquid: 9 months ago ...
ddreams: It's a yearly competition
ddreams: afaik
AntiSquid: can't see any previous year's results:
https://www.kaggle.com/c/siim-isic-melanoma-classification/discussion/173639 top postmortems
ddreams: hmm
ddreams: https://challenge.isic-archive.com/challenges
KalamariKing: Westicles would you rather I used 4-cell
ddreams: under leaderboards you can find the "manuscripts"
KalamariKing: 4-simplexes, sorry
AntiSquid: nvm this is 1st place solution:
https://www.kaggle.com/c/siim-isic-melanoma-classification/discussion/175412 "shake up" is when reality hits you with extra validation data :D
Smelty: :( i dropped 300 ranks in CoC
KalamariKing: My rank dropped too, but only by a hundred or so
A few dozen games later and we're back to 250ish
Zimtime907: So sad:joy:
linjoehan: man I dropped to mater gonna go do some practice problems to get back up
ZarthaxX: linjoehan get that top 100!
Westicles: It will just decay again. A Sisyphean task
DarrenLachance: i'm so bad at coding
ddreams: Practice
DarrenLachance: thanks. I will keep going
KalamariKing: ddreams so inspirational
ddreams: Thanks :)
KalamariKing: you should look into motivational speaking
KalamariKing: get a 2-hr block, walk on stage and say "practice", and leave
ddreams: Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick?
KalamariKing: true
Uljahn: i guess your skill is proportional to the time invested, though you can try to cut corners with something like https://learnxinyminutes.com
ddreams: Teach Yourself Programming in Ten Years
Peter Norvig
ddreams: https://norvig.com/21-days.html
ddreams: I sometimes think about Norvig's sudoku solver and that unit testing guy's approach
ddreams: Ron Jeffries
ddreams: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3033446
KalamariKing: I don't think you can learn mips as fast as this says
KalamariKing: it doesn't give a timestamp per se but still
ddreams: Assembly is not so hard to learn, it's just incredibly tedious
KalamariKing: I kinda wanna learn assembly
1rre: I mean it depends, once you know C it's basically the same thing, and C isn't a huge step from C++/Rust, which isn't a huge step from Java etc
KalamariKing: Furbies ran something similar to 6502s so I wanna make my own furby
KalamariKing: That's the only reason, yep
ddreams: The best way to write anything big in assembly is to write it in C and then use the output as a starting point
1rre: Big brain learn assembly by writing your own compiler
KalamariKing: Thats actually pretty smart ddreams
KalamariKing: I was gonna say can't you compile a program and then use that
1rre: It depends how long it is, you don't wanna be trying to figure out millions of lines
ddreams: That's pretty smart, KalamariKing
ddreams: 1rre, you don't want to write millions of lines of assembly either
ddreams: and the C compiler can give you annotated output
KalamariKing: Ofc 1rre but if you wanna do something like tetris, wouldn't it be smarter to write it in something like C (without libs tho) and use that on a microchip
ddreams: It'd be smartest to choose a chip where a compiler exists :p
KalamariKing: True
ddreams: Learning some inline assembly is useful though
KalamariKing: But maybe I really wanna run the furby original source code on my ryzen 3600x
KalamariKing: Overclocked furbies anyone?
KalamariKing: what if you had to program everything from binary
KalamariKing: it's not that far from hex which isn't far from assembly
ddreams: then you'd first write an assembler
aayux: ok
aayux: yo whatsapp
KalamariKing: right but what if you didn't have a computer
KalamariKing: just a microprocessor to run everything and a rom to store it, plus some way to store individual bits in the rom
ddreams: then I guess I'm enjoying my vacation?
KalamariKing: and you had to code it all in binary
ddreams: reminds me of that story about Bill Gates
KalamariKing: wait did he actually
1rre: I thought it was linus torvalds but sure
ddreams: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07aU7DJiMws&t=162s
sprkrd: what, you wanna program in punchcards now?
sprkrd: you go this route you will end laying out the transistors yourself
sprkrd: I have some experience with PIC (the microcontrollers from Microchip). There's a compiler for that, and you can simulate it using proteus. Maybe you'd like to take a look at that :)
sprkrd: Programmable both in C and in asm
KalamariKing: that's it I'm running nes games on a furby
KalamariKing: nothing can stop me except a shortage of furbies in which case I'll make my own
sprkrd: then even a shortage of furbies won't stop you, right?
KalamariKing: exactly
KalamariKing: only a slight hinderance
sprkrd: which means you can cut your sentence before the except :joy:
KalamariKing: which means
shut up
sprkrd: :O
KalamariKing: don't make me build a furby army
sprkrd: sheer determination and will
KalamariKing: idea: they're all controllable from one central hub
KalamariKing: thats literally an army of furbies this is beautiful
onlyhuman: sup guys
onlyhuman: this site's pretty cool :D
KalamariKing: I agree
Nerchio: I agree
sprkrd: onlyhuman that's what a bot would say :thinking:
onlyhuman: I agree
onlyhuman: :nerd:
KalamariKing: sounds like a bot to me
ddreams: everyone here is a bot, except you
KalamariKing: spooky
KalamariKing: interesting that a bot would want to talk of building a furby army with me
starboy35442: im not a bot
Nerchio: if you were a bot how would you know
starboy35442: idk
ddreams: brain in a vat
nitekat: I might be a bot
KalamariKing: how do any of us know
starboy35442: idk
ddreams: cogito ergo sum
starboy35442: ?
Scarfield: vir prudens non contra ventum mingit
ddreams: true dat
starboy35442: what is happning
jacek: never run with scissors?
ddreams: Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
KalamariKing: we're discussing philosophy
jacek: poor skotz, all alone in wood1 in volcanoes
KalamariKing: but I can't understand it so google translate is useful
KalamariKing: anyone here good with how to waste my money
ddreams: how much money are we talking about?
KalamariKing: 1. epic retro gaming collection
2. furby army
KalamariKing: not much but getting larger with every passing day
jacek: 3. bioengineering cat girls
KalamariKing: now we're thinking
1rre: 2 things I wish they had:
Erlang
The ability to run scala as scripts rather than having to have apps
KalamariKing: I really wanna build a centralized-intelligence furby hive-mind army though
KalamariKing: like cmon
1rre: ok but seriously why do we have to have "object Solution extends App", where we can't even rename solution, when Python don't have to have their function called something specific which is called from another file
KalamariKing: because python runs like crap with anything more than print("hello world")
1rre: Yeah I refuse to use it but for the shortest one's it's just such an uneven playing field
1rre: I just want my Erlang :'(
1rre: Tbh I'm actually just super grateful that the scala version they use is up to date here (ish, 1 minor version behind), you get so many places that run like decade old versions
jacek: they updated many languages recently
KalamariKing: why does 13.2/10 in python return 1.3199999999999
ddreams: floating point limitation
KalamariKing: thought so but why does that matter for such small numbers?
ddreams: it's not representable in binary
KalamariKing: hmm
KalamariKing: thanks
1rre: https://0.30000000000000004.com/
ddreams: like you cannot exactly express 1/3 as a decimal number with limited precision
yassine_Benlahbib: hi
KalamariKing: oh ok that makes sense thanks
KalamariKing: Hello yassine_Benlahbib!
DaringCheetah3967:
DaringCheetah3967:
DaringCheetah3967:
DaringCheetah3967:
DaringCheetah3967:
KalamariKing: can you don't
jacek: cant you do
renoxlex: hi
RAWAN_REDDY: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/17807299faffdb0d23276f8ccf68b73d7b5f9da
jacek: oO
RAWAN_REDDY: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/17807508c7dc6f808e7f49b40ef4e9bf18e5006
ddreams: RAWAN_REDDY: post those in #clash
King_Coda: Why is there a delay when you get promoted to a new league
King_Coda: it says I won't be promoted to gold for another 53 minutes
jacek: to prevent server overload
King_Coda: Makes sense, but nobody plays hypersonic anymore
King_Coda: I would understand having to do that with the new competitions, but not old ones
wlesavo: to prevent cheaters to go to hypersonic legend in 10 minutes, it should take at least an hour.
actually one of the reasons nobody plays hypersonic anymore
ddreams: what kind of cheaters?
wlesavo: copypaste
matjs: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/b700dd9f-f868-4139-9158-97fd4f1c4c94
King_Coda: is that... a rickroll?
MegaGirl: Hey guys, check out my coding game I've put on Youtube! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hQvTdS9g2E
King_Coda: Rick roll
jacek: :upside_down:
MegaGirl: :laughing::laughing: I got you guys!
MegaGirl: YO! I got kicked too!:laughing:
MegaGirl: Who here reads the webtoon Down To Earth?
King_Coda: I didn't click on the link, I just used the context of the situation to determine that it was a rick roll.
King_Coda: I didn't even think it was a rick roll
Xascoria: hi
King_Coda: YAY, I'm being promoted into legend league!
KiwiTae: gz
Mast_: xascoria
Mast_: u are a chad
King_Coda: Why is that
cw477: Xascoria is def chad
King_Coda: k
Xascoria: huh?
KiwiTae: King_Coda you went legend on hypersonic? is that the boomberman one?
King_Coda: Yes KiwiTae
cw477: Rocking faces in clash of code
King_Coda: I'm technically not getting promoted for another 4 hours and 2 minutes, but yes
King_Coda: I coded in C++
Xascoria: yea im new in the game
struct: sure
reCurse: Which repository?
struct: same from the others
struct: he didnt even bother removing the message
jacek: ?
reCurse: Imagine being so insecure you need to lie about it
jacek: oh my
PatrickMcGinnisII: uh oh
struct: I usually say they are only fooling themselves
cw477: Then welcome man
MSmits: Sayonara!
reCurse: Farewell?
MSmits: thats one of them HS kimibot messages
reCurse: Oh
MSmits: i checked out some battles of Coda, indeed it's another clone
reCurse: I just trusted struct hehe
MSmits: yeah struct is pretty reliable
therealbeef: is that legal?
MSmits: no
reCurse: Legal sure
Xascoria: i really like clash, been playing it a lot with my friends
reCurse: Pretending you wrote it, pathetic
Xascoria: ?
Xascoria: sorry?
struct: is not talking to you
Xascoria: oh mb
MSmits: unless you're stealing bots too :P
MSmits: you know I took a serious look at kimi's code to see if i could use anything form there, but it made my head hurt
struct: the gold boss doesnt even work
struct: timeout turn 1
MSmits: HS gold?
struct: yes
MSmits: explains why legend got so big
MSmits: i remember it being 160 or so
struct: 500 now
MSmits: I guess gold boss broke due to some update
PatrickMcGinnisII: HS=hyperSonic?
MSmits: yes
PatrickMcGinnisII: lol, i got stuck in silver ... but I didn't put effort into it
MSmits: ahh yeah i have some multis like that
RoboStac: sounds like nows the time to reach gold for easy legend xp
reCurse: Still need top gold
MSmits: top gold is easy now
MSmits: the best gold bots are in legend
reCurse: Oh because of all the promotions, yeah
PatrickMcGinnisII: yea, ok.. find me a php bot worthy of copy/paste lol
reCurse: Ask King_Coda
RoboStac: if you submit enough all you have to do is survive to turn 2
RoboStac: eventually the boss will go negative
MSmits: emptying gold league?
PatrickMcGinnisII: hey King_Coda is there a php version on github? ;)
RoboStac: if it drops 13 more places saiksy will get promoted and wonder why
RoboStac: maybe it'll get fixed then
PatrickMcGinnisII: MSmits is like 6th...yea no complaints there. ;)
MSmits: it's a bit random, my bot is on par with Robo's
MSmits: i did thousands of CG bench :P
PatrickMcGinnisII: new volcanoes game isn't that fun to code. :(
PatrickMcGinnisII: sry
jacek: oO
jacek: maybe theres code on repo
MSmits: PatrickMcGinnisII is not a repo man
PatrickMcGinnisII: :champagne_glass:
PatrickMcGinnisII: lol jacek
jacek: i see. at my work php guys use svn while everyone else are git
MSmits: php-eople are contrary :P
jacek: ahh theres only wood3 boss there
KiwiTae: >< we use svn at my job too
PatrickMcGinnisII: is that like docker?
PatrickMcGinnisII: I fired my helpers yesterday, so now I'm burnt out from remodeling a house today. Little basterds making me work hard.
KiwiTae: nah docker is virtual machine, svn is version control
PatrickMcGinnisII: ok tx KiwiTae, leaning sumtin everyday
MSmits: I finally learned how to do an index function for oware so i dont need to hash states
PatrickMcGinnisII: oh god, i adjusted my monitor... the cat saw me...gotta hide
MSmits: why are you afraid of your cat
reCurse: Why wouldn't he
MSmits: good point. But cats are varied. There are many reasons one can be afraid of them
jacek: give him some toxoplasmosis then
MSmits: oO
PatrickMcGinnisII: ok, gave the cat the <3... damn keyboard pirate
MSmits: damn... looking up by hash is really slow isn't it? I replaced my unordered set with a pretty complex index function, but the whole endgame book generator is over twice as fast
MSmits: the index function includes a loop and 12 array lookups
MSmits: to replace 1 unordered set call
PatrickMcGinnisII: There's a bin drop hash, damn i ferget the name ... yea using a linear index should speed it up like 10x
MSmits: i think it is more than 10x in this case. It is also a lot more memory efficient. I was using an unordered set to look up an array index
struct: did you add stuff to unordered_map?
struct: or just at the start?
MSmits: not just at the start
MSmits: all the time
struct: yeah its normal that is slow
MSmits: I needed to store where in my array a state was located
struct: I was reading the other day about it
MSmits: I knew that it was slow... I just didnt know it was *this* slow
PatrickMcGinnisII: u guys r always pushing the envelope
MSmits: speaking of pushing the envelope, i also found a way to make my process use more than 2 GB RAM
struct: ok so when the map reaches a certain threshold, the number of buckets increase and map gets hashed again
MSmits: I guess vectors can go beyond it
Azna: Hello
RoboStac: were you compiling for 32bit?
MSmits: no
MSmits: but array declarations could not go beyond 32 bit anyways
MSmits: vector<uint64_t> states(2000000000);
MSmits: this worked though
MSmits: uint64_t states[2000000000] does not
Azna: Is anyone here good with matrixes and queues xD? (char[,]) c#?
RoboStac: that would be 16gb?
MSmits: yeah somewhere around that
MSmits: i started process and saw it use something like 19 gb
RoboStac: thats somewhat different to 2gb :)
MSmits: yeah :)
MSmits: I need this process for the retrograde analysis for making engame books
MSmits: writing to HD is wayyyy too slow
MSmits: otherwise 15 seeds for oware is the max, with this i can go over 31 and only be limited by calc time
MSmits: well no not exactly, i also dropped the 200 turn thing, otherwise it would be like 22 seeds
PatrickMcGinnisII: KiwiTae is making me want to shoot bugs in my house with lasers and tensorflow AI
MSmits: did you name your cat KiwiTae ? Or otherwise I am missing something
PatrickMcGinnisII: I'm making a funny, but I would seriously like to play with his toys to shoot bugs with tho. Mosquito season and all
KiwiTae: :joy:
Chainman: konnichiwa
MSmits: sounds like something King_Coda's bot would say
jacek: omae wa mou shindeiru
PatrickMcGinnisII: Omae wa mou shindeiru¨
PatrickMcGinnisII: oops
PatrickMcGinnisII: Anata wa shinitaidesu ka?
cw477: What are your favorite websites for dev jobs besides glassdoor/dice/indeed?
ddreams: CG clearly :p
ddreams: finn.no here in Norway
cw477: very cool
AstroHydes: Try any job site but contact the employer directly if you can. Sets you apart from the flood from the website ads.
AstroHydes: Oof. Replying to old messages.
ddreams: why the alt?
AstroHydes: hehe, just the browser I was in
AstroHydes: One has one account and the others have the other
AstroHydes: No other reason
PatrickMcGinnisII: One is a Byter, be careful
AstroHydes: Or if you mean the reason *for* the alt, I believe the description is clear
AstroHydes: hey Patrick
ddreams: yeah, just wondered if there was some reason for it now
PatrickMcGinnisII: :tumbler_glass:
AstroHydes: Nah, was listening to some livestream music on youtube and just logged in here for convenience
AstroHydes: Anyways, will catch up properly later. Things to see and people to do and all that.
ddreams: Ciao
SupercraftD: hey guys, do u know if I can somehow download the clash of code image with the like two people fighting with the laptops ylnow?
struct: https://static-aznet.codingame.com/assets/background_clash_of_code.18769c43.jpg
SupercraftD: wow! thanks!
nightmarex: haiii everyone :)
7-4: sexy
Smelty: went from 1200 to 1600 in CoC :(
MrFruit: rip
IlluBlack: Im knew and I would like to know if there's a way to practice the code for a clash of code that I could not make, I did not know lot of things,, so I studied some concepts and now want to try to solve the same problem, but I don't know where
IlluBlack: I'm new*
NotSureWhyThisWorks: https://eulerschezahl.herokuapp.com/codingame/puzzles/
NotSureWhyThisWorks: IlluBlack you can use this website to search for all of the clash of code puzzles
NotSureWhyThisWorks: If you find the puzzle you wanted to practice, click "view contribution on codingame" and it will take you to the codingame website and click "test in IDE" and you can practice the puzzle
ggenilson: Morning Guys
