Babyface-Developer: HeLlO rIVaL819 :))
GilbertGaming27: Gilbert
WOLFRAHH: hii eulerscheZahl
ParallaxWave: a
ParallaxWave: a
ParallaxWave: a
ParallaxWave: a
jacek: happy Caturday
WOLFRAHH: hii jacek
Huday.object: hi jacek
AnandMan: hello
AnandMan: hello
rufusek: Hello
TanHoa_24: hello guys
HellcatDinh: hello
HellcatDinh: mtfk
TanHoa_24: i'm the vietnamese people
LoneCuriosity: hello
jrke: happy astroday->caturday
KiwiTae: o/
KiwiTae: MadKnight hows your android
jacek: is AutomatonNN android?
AutomatonNN: what do you mean?
Uljahn: do AutomatonNNs dream of electric eulers?
AutomatonNN: yeah i get it
MarTiaNe: Is there any way I can check old coc games ? Some kind of history or whatever
Uljahn: like "show read" at the bottom of notifications?
jacek: but it wont show the clashes problems themselves
MarTiaNe: Oh I did not know about that, also it show only games in this week, but still at least something. thx
MSmits: hey jacek, I was wondering if i could ask you some questions about ML in oware/
MSmits: or boardgames in general maybe
UnnamedCodinGamer: hi MSmits, do you use mcts in breakthrough?
MSmits: yeah, a form of it, but i kinda failed with eval in breakthrough
MSmits: i eval all children on expansion and backpropagate scores. No random rollout
MSmits: but then the eval needs to be good and it isn't
UnnamedCodinGamer: I try random rollouts but they do not seem to work either
UnnamedCodinGamer: yes
MSmits: they don't
MSmits: there are many games where they don't
UnnamedCodinGamer: so good evaluation seems to be key
MSmits: you can use random rollouts very well in bandas, uttt, connect 4 and some others
MSmits: yeah
MSmits: btw sometimes random rollouts also require some heuristics in the rollout
MSmits: a good rollout policy
MSmits: like in yavalath: Don't play instant loss moves
MSmits: take wins when they appear
UnnamedCodinGamer: yes, I try to do that - detect and use instant win or loss
UnnamedCodinGamer: yes
MSmits: might not be enough for some games
MSmits: the problem is that random moves just dont sample the space of reasonable moves very well
MSmits: and if you dont play reasonable moves, the result is useless
UnnamedCodinGamer: exactly
UnnamedCodinGamer: no matter how many times you sample
MSmits: well eventually you build the tree deep enough ofc
MSmits: you will just solve the game :0
UnnamedCodinGamer: yes, near the end when you would most probably detect a loss :)
MSmits: I've been trying to get a handle on machine learning
MSmits: in what little free time i have these weeks
UnnamedCodinGamer: makes sense
MSmits: I can do little things, but board games are definitely a step up
UnnamedCodinGamer: this seems to be the way
MSmits: not in every game I think and ML alone might not be enough in games where it does work
MSmits: like you might still need endgame db and opening books and such
MSmits: at least on CG
UnnamedCodinGamer: I looked briefly into alpha zero, it seemed complicated to me
MSmits: yeah i dont want to do azero
MSmits: I'll just try a MLP
UnnamedCodinGamer: what is mlp?
MSmits: but I need to figure out how to do the actual training part
MSmits: thats a basic NN, just a bunch of hidden layers, input, output.
MSmits: no resnet, convolution etc.
MSmits: i think oware is good to do this with
UnnamedCodinGamer: mh
UnnamedCodinGamer: did you solve the two nn puzzles?
MSmits: nope
UnnamedCodinGamer: they give you a good intuition
MSmits: what does it teach you
UnnamedCodinGamer: and you implement nn from scratch
MSmits: because i do know the basics
UnnamedCodinGamer: implementing your own nn
MSmits: i just need to know how to train it in the domain of boardgames with self play
MSmits: do the puzzles teach you that?
UnnamedCodinGamer: well
UnnamedCodinGamer: there is the training part
MSmits: i know training and backpropagation on a data set
MSmits: thats not what i need to learn
UnnamedCodinGamer: and you must output the expected output after the training
UnnamedCodinGamer: ok
UnnamedCodinGamer: I see
MSmits: i need to know how to generate the data and use it, in a boardgame
MSmits: thats what i wanted to ask jacek about
MSmits: I mean i can let it play games against itself
MSmits: that would give me board positions
MSmits: and there is an endgame result
MSmits: but not sure how to combine them and how search ties into this. With search you get deeper and find more positions for moves you dont even play
UnnamedCodinGamer: I would like to also figure this out
MSmits: my guess is that search with more depth just makes the endgame result more realistic/accurate, but otherwise does not add value
MSmits: and that you actually train on the real positions that occurred in the game
MSmits: you put those through the network and backpropagate with the end game resukt
MSmits: result
MSmits: but I am just guessing, so would help if someone confirmed :)
UnnamedCodinGamer: the nn from the puzzles takes and outputs binary data, which can be board game states
UnnamedCodinGamer: so on a basic level I see how the training should work
MSmits: yeah i know, i did some tutorials with simple truth table
MSmits: like the XOR operations
MSmits: or you can train it to all states of TTT
MSmits: that's a solved game so no need to do any self play
MSmits: if you just have the data, there's a lot of good information to google and learn from
MSmits: but generating through selfplay and train on it, that's a bit harder. There's a bunch of stuff about azero you can download and try, but thats so far beyond what I want that it's not helpful
MSmits: also, i want to avoid using tensorflow/keras/pytorch for now otherwise i end up with models i dont know how to put through CG
UnnamedCodinGamer: so basically the input is a game state and the output in the training data is the best move given the input
MSmits: you can do it two basic ways i think
MSmits: the output can be moves
MSmits: or it can be board value
MSmits: (or both actually)
Doju: gosh, learning c++ is horrible after getting so used to python and javascript
MSmits: so in oware you can say there's 6 outputs, one for each of the moves
MSmits: or you can do between -1 and 1 for loss/draw/win
MSmits: and then just pick the move with the best value
MSmits: Doju yes it is
UnnamedCodinGamer: and you generate the training data offline using for instance mcts?
MSmits: yeah, some search
MSmits: otherwise the endgame results are going to be crap, if it's just depth 0
UnnamedCodinGamer: yes
UnnamedCodinGamer: If I try it it I would probably stay away from python and ready to use packages
MSmits: that's probably best yeah
MSmits: btw, i tried a bunch of those
MSmits: the amount of crap you have to install and the version problems are horrible
MSmits: nothing works with the newest versions of packages
MSmits: say you want to use the newest tensorflow... you cant use the newest python
MSmits: if you use the newest tensorflow, you cant run many of the things people shared, with an older version
UnnamedCodinGamer: yes, I have had similar problems with python packages for more trivial stuff
UnnamedCodinGamer: have you managed to make something work and perform better than normal search?
MSmits: nah, i have not done anything i need to search for
MSmits: i was going to do this with oware, it is such a simple game
MSmits: and i know it very well
MSmits: it's like starting with TTT almost, except it's not solved
Doju: Btw MSmits you've been online here every time that I've logged in in the past 10 months
MSmits: lol
Doju: I'm not entirely convinced that you're not a bot :D
KiwiTae: Doju why u only lvl8?
MSmits: well i've been a lot less active lately. This time it's really a coincidence :)
Doju: KiwiTae i'm only really interested in the competitions
KiwiTae: nice :)
Doju: Now i'm here to check out my python code for the fall challenge
Doju: trying to translate it to c++
MSmits: ouch
Doju: this is a rather slow process :d
MSmits: yes
Doju: given that my only experience with c++ is an introductory course on another website
Doju: which took like 3 hours to complete
MSmits: also, c++ has a lot of tricks that can make you use less code, but beginners wont know those
KiwiTae: hehe
MSmits: (i dont know those)
jacek: ohai
MSmits: hey jacek
KiwiTae: i realised there are many tricks to stl when i tried to use c instead of cpp
MSmits: so jacek, i was meaning to ask you some questions about ML in oware specifically, but not sure how much you are sharing about this
jacek: its alright
MSmits: ok, so do you use selfplay or supervised in oware?
Doju: I just wish there was an option to select the interpreter for python here
jacek: selfplay
MSmits: when you train, do you play real games, or games with more depth or less depth?
jacek: or maybe 'self-supervised' would be more accurate
MSmits: when you generate data i mean
jacek: yes, real games with fast mcts
MSmits: what do you mean fast? Lower calculation time?
jacek: then i have position -> value of the mcts' root
MSmits: dont you use the endgame result as value to train on?
jacek: lower time, or even just fixed iterations count
jacek: i used that in the past, but using value from shallow search is faster and gave better results
jacek: even if at first generations it comes from random network
jacek: at the very least, near endgames have accurate values
MSmits: well it makes sense that the endgame reslt is a poor value to use for early game states
MSmits: because it is too far away
MSmits: and in later states, the mcts root value should coincide with the endgame result anyway
MSmits: ok, so you don't have 6 outputs, one for each of the moves, like some other implementations
jacek: my training pipeline is similar to a0's now, just i train only value, and my target value is mcts result, not game final outcom
jacek: yeah, only value
MSmits: ok, so do you use convolution layers?
jacek: still simple MLP
MSmits: seems less useful in oware because it is not a 2D game
MSmits: in what way is it close to azero then?
MSmits: azero uses convolution and resnet
jacek: i mean the training pipeline
MSmits: oh ok
MSmits: generating data in batches, training, validation etc.
jacek: yes
MSmits: well you do exactly what i would prefer to try, it seems like a good baseline to experiment with
jacek: it is evaltype-agnostic
jacek: could be nn, n-tuple or handcrafter features
MSmits: yeah it's a nn, it could be whatever :)
MSmits: oh
MSmits: you mean the pipeline
MSmits: yeah
jacek: well anything that has adjustable parameters
MSmits: you could use it to train handcrafted features
MSmits: parameters
MSmits: yea
MSmits: thats something i need also
MSmits: so could learn 2 things at once here
MSmits: if i stick with it
kovi: bookmark
MSmits: do you use anything like tensorflow?
MSmits: or is it fully homemade
jacek: no, i made things in c++ from scratch
MSmits: thats great, also what i want to try
MSmits: that way you can more easily get it into CG
kovi: not sure if c++ tensor fits into cg
kovi: yeah
MSmits: he can just make a long string and then convert it into tensors
MSmits: thats not the hard part
kovi: yeah but runtime lib
MSmits: the hard part is writing efficient matrix calculations
jacek: it all started when i finally rewrote the xor example from python's to c++
kovi: it was not written with 100k limit consideration
MSmits: right, thats good
jacek: i think i have somewhere the python example without using np
MSmits: when you say "the python example" which one do you mean?
Doju: Hmm, I must be doing something wrong because I want to make pretty much everything protected instead of private
kovi: there are a0 examples
MSmits: yeah, but we are doing this far below a0 level :)
MSmits: i dont want to touch that anymore
jacek: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/429ca1e6-890a-4b94-9773-49404526b36a
MSmits: a0 is so complicated
kovi: true, jacek value based thing is pretty wise
jacek: XOR mlp, 1 hidden layer
jacek: no fancy numpy
Doju: Oh jeez
Doju: are you doing neural nets without numpy?
MSmits: thats great jacek, finally something without numpy
jacek: just for learning for myself
Doju: thats nuts :o
jacek: no numpy in c++ standard libs
MSmits: numpy makes things faster, but it doesnt make it more clear to learn
Doju: great if you want to learn
Doju: yeah thats true
Doju: if the objective is to learn instead of making a fast thing then that makes sense
kovi: but without numpy usually 1/10 speed
MSmits: jacek for the matrix calcs, did you use any c++ library, or did you just figure out what intrinsics and other tricks to use, yourself?
kovi: and without tf/gpu 1/100
kovi: or worse
MSmits: kovi if i take weeks to code something and the training takes 24 hrs instead of 1 hr, it's fine :)
jacek: i use good old for loops, not even intrinsics
kovi: oh, you do c++ calc, sorry
kovi: than its ok
MSmits: I see, doesn't it bother you that it might be much faster jacek, with some tricks?
MSmits: i mean obviously you dont need more speed atm
jacek: yeah, NN eval is most consuming part of my code
jacek: and i tried several times. im just too dumb
MSmits: well if I ever get to the point where I can write this stuff and it's better than what you have, I will share it with you
MSmits: might be a couple months. I want to get something before the end of my summer vacation. Trying to be generous with my time estimate here, apparently it's hard to learn
jacek: and i finally got this work for Y. its 5th without opening book
MSmits: nice one, Robo did as well
MSmits: but yavalath has huge problems with determinism because of the early game endings
jacek: its N-tuple with small hidden layer, MLP-tuple :v
MSmits: ohh ok
MSmits: I am going to be solving connect4 i think
Doju: welp now i've got circular dependencies
jacek: determinism... in training i choose final moves according softmax
jacek: it was another thing that i lacked before
jacek: allows for exploration but not too dumb exploration
MSmits: I see
MSmits: hey, you train on cpu right?
jacek: yeah
MSmits: i read about gpu being 20-100 times faster
MSmits: but i feel that's probably also because when people do that they have 4 really expensive ones running at once
MSmits: doubt i'd achieve that factor with mine
DomiKo: not really
jacek: i have rather small nn
WOLFRAHH: hii guys what was going
jacek: not quite parallelizable
MSmits: ahh ok
jacek: well maybe for training batch itself, the gpu would come in handy
MSmits: seems so difficult to write that yourself
MSmits: i would prefer to do it with tensorflow then and just convert their models somehow
jacek: thats why i havent written convnets yet. i could write gazillion layers etc. in python but at first i want to make something small myself
MSmits: and resnets?
jacek: too
WOLFRAHH: can any body tell what was going
MSmits: convnets supposedly help for games like othello/yavalath, where the surroundings of a hex/square are important
MSmits: doubt it would help much for oware
jacek: my NNs so far have at most 2 hidden layers, so resnets are pointless.
MSmits: yeah
MSmits: 2 is not much at all
jacek: also i mostly exploit the fact that there is little change between game states, i.e. only few squares are affected
MSmits: did you experiment with trading layer size for depth?
MSmits: how do you exploit this?
jacek: yeah, and this is what i came up for my framework and cg constraints
jacek: for input/first hidden layer you need to only update the values instead of summing everything all over again
jacek: partial updates, the main idea behind nnue
MSmits: oh you mean it's a performance improvement
MSmits: do you mean during training or running a game?
jacek: yes
jacek: well both
MSmits: well that seems useful and alleviates the problem with you just using for loops
jacek: though i do not use that in oware
MSmits: it's easier to implement improvements like this when your code is not stuck in weird intrinsic and avx stuff
proace21: hi
MSmits: once you've gotten into that, you generally dont touch the code anymore. At least I dont
jacek: have you read the updated http://www.fierz.ch/cake186.php
jacek: the guy finally used patterns
MSmits: wow really
MSmits: i thought that was dead
MSmits: it's cool he did that
MSmits: anyways, thanks a lot jacek. I saved the chat and your xor example. When I have more free time I know what to do with it
jacek: :+1:
WOLFRAHH: hey jack what's about python
WOLFRAHH: jacek
WOLFRAHH: MSmits are you pro in coding
AntiSquid: WOLFRAHH https://duckduckgo.com/?t=canonical&q=how+to+engage+in+conversation&ia=web
jacek: oO
AntiSquid: making bubbles again?
LaMeccaGuy: Hi guys
LaMeccaGuy: How ranking is done?
therealbeef: which ranking?
jacek: yes
AntiSquid: LaMeccaGuy is it yes ?
jacek: i wonder how to debug print this dice duel board...
AntiSquid: LaMeccaGuy https://imgur.com/a/DtlO1iF
PULSAR2105: best joke ever !
jacek: MSmits trained chess values https://i.imgur.com/l71AZQn.png it took just few seconds and it converged to typical 'sane' values though knights seem to be undervalued here
MSmits: is this chess960 or normal chess?
MSmits: also I am guessing you kept the pawn fixed because you didn't need the extra free parameter :)
MSmits: the other pieces are defined in terms of pawn value
MSmits: you might get a different value for the pieces if you split the game into early, mid and lategame
Ghostyy: bruh, i'm a begginerin c++ and i know how to make small programs, but when i join this website i knew that i'm a fool
AntiSquid: wrong
AntiSquid: you'd be a fool not to join
Ghostyy: ?
Ghostyy: maybe you're right
KiwiTae: Ghostyy your not a fool your at the bottom of the sigmoid curve
ANONYMOUS42: anyone else have the problem where the CoC chat just crashes whenever i try to load it
BlaiseEbuth: No 'cause nobody here does clashes...
UltraCookie: I do they are fun
BlaiseEbuth: Perhaps. But are you here ?
MSmits: are you getting all existential on us BlaiseEbuth?
BlaiseEbuth: I think so I am.
BlaiseEbuth: Are you ?
MSmits: no idea
MSmits: I will ask the NN jacek shared with me earlier
MSmits: it says 0 1 1 0
MSmits: so that's that
BlaiseEbuth: So perhaps you exist, perhaps not... Schrodingsmith
MSmits: indeed
AntiSquid: what kind of NN ?
MSmits: heh, this is the xor example
AntiSquid: ah the basic xor stuff @_@
MSmits: i am pleased that I understand it even though all the variables are 1 character
AntiSquid: internet is flooded with those
MSmits: W, H, b etc.
MSmits: yes, but this one has no numpy
MSmits: so i can translate it to c++ without hurting my brain
MSmits: then I can try to add more layers
MSmits: oh and another reason why the example is good: It contains bias
MSmits: many xor examples do not
AntiSquid: you have a link or something ?
MSmits: he pasted it here, sec
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/c6c8d8cb-a90e-4f2f-9557-7128dc2181b8
MSmits: it makes no sense if you've not seen any other examples though
AntiSquid: cool thanks just wanted to see this one
inoryy: I'm starting to seriously think I have a sixth sense for when NNs are discussed here
MSmits: hey inoryy :)
inoryy: hello!
AntiSquid: you missed an awful lot of discussions related to that then
MSmits: I am just getting started trying things
AntiSquid: sharpen your senses
MSmits: after reading way too much about it
inoryy: AntiSquid damn :(
MSmits: I'm doing what jacek is doing, a MLP for oware
AntiSquid: hey inoryy where do you look for news updates on anything ML related in general ?
MSmits: well... after a long time messing :P
inoryy: MSmits nice!
MSmits: so my first job is translating this xor example to c++
inoryy: AntiSquid colleagues, twitter, sometimes r/ML
inoryy: holy moly I dropped from ~50th to 208, are there lots of newcomers at the top?
MSmits: probably
jacek: ohai
MSmits: they also recalculated like a year ago, not sure when you last looked
jacek: other example dont have biases? really?
DaNinja: Agad e has a nice and simple c++ NN here https://www.codingame.com/training/easy/onboarding/solution?id=3349744
DaNinja: https://www.codingame.com/training/easy/onboarding/solution?id=3349744
AntiSquid: probably the bigger contests brought in a lot stronger folks? no idea
MSmits: thanks DaNinja
AntiSquid: last one had 7k participants
inoryy: wow
MSmits: DaNinja lol... do i need to solve onboarding in C++ to see it?
wlesavo: also a lot of points for recent contest make it easier to climb
DaNinja: yes, trya mcts for it :D
MSmits: lol
inoryy: I remember that one, I think that's the first NN on CG :)
darkhorse64: small multis give more cp
MSmits: it came after the csb tests?
MSmits: or before?
inoryy: noo, way before
MSmits: hmm ok
AntiSquid: no backprop
AntiSquid: here's the big NN thread of stuff shared on CG https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/neural-network-ressources/1667
inoryy: I remember it because whenever I would argue NNs on CG are near impossible people would point me to that solution and I would laugh and be even more convinced because it's so absurd :D
jacek: NN are possible on CG
MSmits: well.. from what i know now, i dont see why anyone would ever think it was impossible
MSmits: any small nn should be better than most evaluation functions
inoryy: eh, hindsight 20/20
MSmits: yeah :)
inoryy: not ashamed to admit I was way off, was a good lesson for me
MSmits: i dont get why the onboarding has no backpropagation though
jacek: trained offline
KiwiTae: its already trained
MSmits: ohhh
MSmits: lol
AntiSquid: missing a lot more than that :P
darkhorse64: you can look at the binary neural network exercises too
MSmits: would be even cooler if he trained it in the time available
MSmits: and then used it
jacek: zenoscave has backprop https://www.codingame.com/training/easy/onboarding/solution?id=9348107
darkhorse64: it includes training data
MSmits: nice
MSmits: weird that he uses numpy and still has 200+ lines
MSmits: mmh i think he doesnt even really use it, he seems to use normal python lists
MSmits: oh nvm, he uses np.dot
jacek: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/07c640b5-eb32-4206-8fd4-d87158308c0d
jacek: that doesnt look like relu
inoryy: haha
MSmits: no i think he forgot to fix that
AntiSquid: (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
AntiSquid: submission too fast again
jacek: hm?
DomiKo: wait
AntiSquid: the red rekt angle
DomiKo: we can use numpy here :scream:
AntiSquid: yes
Smelty: hmm
jacek: so silent today here
BlaiseEbuth: AutomatonNN is there a way to make som noise since euler is not here ?
AutomatonNN: with many changes
KiwiTae: im struggling with roller coaster here
BlaiseEbuth: Do it in clojure
KiwiTae: took me 2days to make hello world in clojure :p
BlaiseEbuth: There's an achievement !
KiwiTae: Noooo way? whyyy
KiwiTae: :joy: ill have to do it one day ah
KiwiTae: havent seen that one yet
KiwiTae: damn just saw it
BlaiseEbuth: Go on ! https://bubok.tech/category/clojure/
KiwiTae: damn clojure bible thanks
AntiSquid: one of those things you need to cleanse with holy water eh ?
jacek: spam
AntiSquid: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61zGklMhUpL._AC_SL1000_.jpg unicorn spam
aaronshenhao: Magic in every bite! Lol
jacek: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/53/2e/2a/532e2a7ebe80682bfa193395ed5be7f1.jpg
AntiSquid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlEovr29KBU
KiwiTae: aah well got 2/3 ach on that one ... just gonna have to learn clojure for next one ><
BlaiseEbuth: ^^
jacek: vv
Smelty: >
>
AntiSquid: anyone who did 2048 had a % 0 bug when trying to use the formula for next seed ? not sure how i get it, but it's only offline @_@
orangesnowfox: AntiSquid: If there aren't any tiles to place...
AntiSquid: yes i realize that, but how come it doesn't bug out on CG ? :/
jacek: hm?
AntiSquid: idk ... i get gibberish occasionally
jacek: thats your code
AntiSquid: in the memory
AntiSquid: Automaton2000 show him the door @_@
Automaton2000: or do you still get promoted
jacek: AutomatonNN his code is executed in memory?
AutomatonNN: eulerscheZahl is there a way to see the code in the contest to a solution in my code
AntiSquid: euler isn't here, he doesn't love you anymore AutomatonNN
AutomatonNN: change all the contributions
AntiSquid: wow AutomatonNN is taking revenge
AutomatonNN: good luck
AntiSquid: 1430539332 4 16 4
1279544405 32 8 2
-1733645660 64 512 8
1280660818 1381324114 16 1146442325 my board contains gibberish i mean jacek
jacek: stop puting gibberish to your board then [solved]
orangesnowfox: That isn't giberish, it's very important and belongs there [closed as not a bug]
AntiSquid: i set them to 0s for sure, but then somehow get those magical numbers
jacek: indexing issues?
AntiSquid: think it was memset()
AntiSquid: now i got a different wonderful bug! it's like metamorphosis
AntiSquid: Exception has occurred.
Segmentation fault
orangesnowfox: Nice UB you got there
AntiSquid: UB ?
jacek: undefined behavior
orangesnowfox: Segfaults almost *certainly* mean some kind of undefined behavior happened
KiwiTae: using vectors?
AntiSquid: you think i messed up something with index ? i checked that bit over and over, might still be wrong though lol
KiwiTae: might be u didnt reserve the memory
orangesnowfox: might be a signed integer overflow, those are UB
jacek: show all your code
AntiSquid: could be i didn't translate the java function properly for spawning tile
orangesnowfox: In the Java code it never has to worry about the % 0 error, because moves have to make *something* happen, which means there has to be an empty tile after the move
jacek: blame euler
orangesnowfox: Yeah, blame euler lol :p
AntiSquid: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/c5db301c-8d00-4ffc-8902-d0ec9c19d21d
KiwiTae: u missing a return 0;
AntiSquid: is there a limit of commands / turn ?
orangesnowfox: There might be a line length limit, but I haven't found it yet
jacek: i think i tried over 1000 moves and it failed
AntiSquid: ok will inspect seed later, got to shop something @_@
jacek: at 22? :thinking:
KiwiTae: online shopping maybe
orangesnowfox: Would someone be willing to help me figure out why my tron doesn't like filling spaces very much? eg https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/536705366
KiwiTae: look like u have border issues
orangesnowfox: yea, but y tho lol
BlaiseEbuth: Are you always considering the opponent in your evaluation when "caged" ?
orangesnowfox: Yeah, never got around to checking if my bot was isolated
BlaiseEbuth: That's the point.
BlaiseEbuth: Had the same problem long time ago.
KiwiTae: im still stuck in gold there
KiwiTae: i think
orangesnowfox: near the top of silver :v
KiwiTae: u gonna crush me soon
orangesnowfox: BlaiseEbuth: Is the point that you *do* check, or that you *shouldn't*?
orangesnowfox: KiwiTae: I wouldn't be so sure about that, my first submit was 4 years ago, and I only have 28, I might just vanish again
BlaiseEbuth: You should check. ^^
BlaiseEbuth: 28 what ?
orangesnowfox: submits
BlaiseEbuth: Oh
BlaiseEbuth: Same. But with a 0 between the 2 and the 8.
jacek: https://istheshipstillstuck.com
orangesnowfox: Okay, I just realized that didn't make it any less ambiguous for me sorry
orangesnowfox: > You should check. ^^
Like, check if I'm isolated, or check what the opponent is doing
BlaiseEbuth: Check if you are isolated to avoid your cycle to taking the opponent position into account when that does not matter.
BlaiseEbuth: "It has cost us $43 billion, so far..." who is "us" ?
orangesnowfox: The world economy
BlaiseEbuth: Yes. So why "us" ?
orangesnowfox: Dunno
AntiSquid: 21:29 here jacek, shop open until late
jacek: oh tomorrow that time change
AntiSquid: jacek there's a truck from same company blocking a road too : https://mothership.sg/2021/03/evergreen-container-suez-canal-ever-given/
AntiSquid: they're good at blocking stuff
Rival819: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/b1d98292-d856-4872-b047-18671d386f6b
Rival819: slim shady
AntiSquid: blyat
Rival819: =D
Rival819: Meanwhile the evergreen truck....SKIIIIIRRRRRTTTT !!!
AntiSquid: well if you want more of it, this is from january: https://taiwanenglishnews.com/evergreen-marine-container-ship-loses-36-containers-at-sea/#comments
AntiSquid: evergreen drop 36 containers in the see :D
AntiSquid: sea *
AntiSquid: too much news for today, 3D printed chicken nuggets https://www.popularmechanics.com/home/food-drink/a33380821/kfc-3d-bio-printed-chicken-nuggets/
Rival819: Antiqsquid: Breaking new, Evergreen will never be called Seavergreen
davilla: man, I really want to progress down the algorithms track, but I need more achievements and I don't know where to get them
davilla: I'm at 27/30
Rival819: They drowned so now they will be uncalled. :D
davilla: oh, I guess I could do an easy puzzle in a different language to get 2 achievements :-P
therealbeef: Yeah puzzles is the way to quick achievements
davilla: good, then I can continue down this path
davilla: haha I just copied my code from other Mars Lander puzzles into episode 1, achievement unlocked!
Hiachi: Im a new programmer
davilla: hi
Hiachi: These exercises are really good
Hiachi: hi
davilla: yeah it's fun
Rival819: YES !! FUN T.T
Rival819: Hard, but fun :D
sherry7392: hi
Rival819: Yes high, that what you need to be better you are right sherry. It helps me
Rival819: high to you too :D
Snovrain: good morning everyone
Rival819: hi :)
Babyface-Developer: 48 65 6c 6c 6f
Babyface-Developer: 48 65 6c 6c 6f 20 41 6e 79 6f 6e 65 20 74 68 65 72 65 20 3f
MiinhTrann: e
LoneCuriosity: hello
