**PrO_OGrmr hello
RougherO: hello
tomatoes: ... -> forum?
linjoehan: Will a simultaneous multi allow 600 turns? or does each player use up one turn so only 300?
jrke: top right three dots nerchio
VizGhar: strange feeling to clash clash created by me :D
rockstar555: hii
Nerchio: ooh thanks imo a weird place to have 'forum' btw
Nerchio: should be on top panel i think
Nerchio: thanks
SurduTony: no nut november almost over, stay strong
AntiSquid: lol
struct: I think he has been warned already
struct: I wasnt here
struct: chat bugged?
JBM: any more than usual?
AntiSquid: who got warned?
AntiSquid: rockstar555 anything apart from hi ?
LordSkaven: he says hii sometimes
ruasd: :V
ruasd: :)
eulerscheZahl: linjoehan you can have a total CPU time of 30s which is equal to 600 single player actions at 50ms each. so it's 300 turns each in 1vs1
melchi: zo
mathieuschnd2: HELLO
ZarthaxX: hai
struct: hi
AntonCosmin: hi guys
sebak: hello programmers
AtomicDemon_f847: Hello
MadKnight: hello sebak
miszu: I finally was able to unit test my UTTT
MadKnight: gg
miszu: I created lots of lookup table that I need to compute at turn 1. It's good to test correctness
miszu: also tested the small board for my bits operations. Now I will write tests for big board and make sure the states are correct
dbdr: eulerscheZahl: action again on https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/optimization/cgfunge-prime/leaderboard <https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/optimization/cgfunge-prime/leaderboard?column=CODINGAMER&value=FOLLOWING>
JavaFather: hallo everyone
kovi: wow
https://twitter.com/xevixevi
dbdr: why wow kovi?
eulerscheZahl: now you have to fight back dbdr
dbdr: yeah. I know I can improve, but that's a lot
kovi: seems that xevi is not a one trick pony
dbdr: yes
eulerscheZahl: "I reduced it by about 100 steps. I'm not sure about the limits, but it won't be so easy. Since there is no drill, it is finished for the time being, so which one is next?
struct: anyone has any resources on handling bitboards bigger than 64 bits
eulerscheZahl: somehow chat is still laggy for me
struct: The pdf I read doesnt have a lot about it
mars_magnet: Hi
dbdr: drill is probably a mistranlation
dbdr: any japanese speaker around?
darkhorse64: struct: gcc supports 128 bits but if you look at the assembly it's just 2x64bits. I don't think there is much too gain from it
struct: darkhorse64 i wanted to try on HS
struct: But I dont understand how I can work with 3x ui64
struct: I dont understand how to go from 1 region to another
eulerscheZahl: he's not really checking if numbers are prime but hardcoding according to twitter
eulerscheZahl: but i guess you assumed that before
darkhorse64: You have also been tempted to Beam Search by the latest contest. Ask MSmits for info on HS
struct: Yeah, i kinda managed to do a beam search of some kind
ZarthaxX: :rofl:
struct: The problem is that I cant find MSmits
ZarthaxX: he is busy
ZarthaxX: just wait lol
Westicles: no drill probably means no time limit
dbdr: yeah
darkhorse64: There is nothing in the PMs ? I haven't read them
eulerscheZahl: ixanezix (HS contest winner) used a 128bit integer to store the board
ZarthaxX: that's what i told him
ZarthaxX: :(
eulerscheZahl: i have a typo in the name
darkhorse64: Look like an Asterix & Obelix name
Lysk: :D
struct: I dont think he stored the board on 128 bits
struct: but the boxes
eulerscheZahl: a little bit of info about number shifting: https://twitter.com/xevixevi/status/1323805595619635201
struct: The only stuff I found is what its on the pdf that was linked multiple times here before
struct: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/33500946.pdf
struct: its at the bottom
darkhorse64: There is a LHAC implementation for NS on Marchete GitHub repos
darkhorse64: Sorry LAHC
dbdr: public bot? :O
darkhorse64: Without eval ...
eulerscheZahl: one that gets you around lvl200 i think
eulerscheZahl: didn't test
darkhorse64: I used this algo for A*C
dbdr: eulerscheZahl: I need \ that does division in the reverse order ;)
eulerscheZahl: reverse order? you mean modulo?
eulerscheZahl: aah, for shorter code
eulerscheZahl: CG funge
dbdr: stack(0)/stack(1)
Westicles: We can let some weirdo cat guy beat us
Westicles: can't
eulerscheZahl: he worked hard on it
eulerscheZahl: more than 2 months for number shifting. then shared a screenshot of level 654
eulerscheZahl: looks massive
Westicles: Maybe I'll try to improve it a little... unless you want to take him dbdr?
dbdr: not now I think
ProMikeSundays: hi
Osoky: hello
Kingcodinggg: Hi
TheMusicalGiant_6f99: Hi
ProMikeSundays: what is your opinion on programmers getting automated because of more advanced versions of gpt-3?
TheMusicalGiant_6f99: any body using php ?!
ProMikeSundays: @TheMusicalGiant_6f99 please send me to hell first
ProMikeSundays: :joy:
zub: im terrible
Jabberwocky733: Trying to get to Gold league with C. Any tips?
Jabberwocky733: For instance, is it worth it to use a machine learning approach, or is a rule-based heuristic adequate?
Lysk: that choice has little to do with the language
Jabberwocky733: True, although I would probably switch to Python if I wanted to go with machine learning.
Uljahn: ML is rarely an option on CG
Jabberwocky733: I'm trying to find a pragmatic way to describe a strategy directly, but I think it's difficult and tedious.
Jabberwocky733: Oh, interesting @Uljahn. Is that because there's just not enough time to evaluate the neural network?
Uljahn: ye, also your code is limited by 100k chars
Jabberwocky733: I saw that it's possible to download and run the referee locally, so I assumed that unsupervised learning would be possible
Jabberwocky733: Ohhhh
Jabberwocky733: cool
Jabberwocky733: That actually makes me quite happy to hear, though, since ML is sort of the same approach regardless of the game, which is kinda boring
Jabberwocky733: But what do you do instead? Just a hierarchy of functions calling functions? Or maybe something like a state machine?
Lysk: check the forum, the thread "feedback&strategies", it will give you an overview of what people tried
Jabberwocky733: Thanks Lysk, I'll check it out!
Lysk: here: https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/fall-challenge-2020-feedbacks-strategies/
Jabberwocky733: Thanks a lot :thumbsup:
Uljahn: i guess top players often use search-based algorithms to find suboptimal solution in a given time
Uljahn: you need to reimplement a game engine and them simulate and evaluate consequent states to search for better actions
Jabberwocky733: Alright, I thought implementing simulation too. That sounds doable and fun. Thanks a lot. :)
jacek: ML is rarely applicable here due to time and size constraints
jacek: well offline params optimization is more of a thing
Uljahn: some games are ML-friendly though
eulerscheZahl: should have done the latter, felt a bit lazy on it
Jabberwocky733: Makes sense
eulerscheZahl: would have given a better return than the C++ conversion i think
struct: sorry for suggesting port :(
eulerscheZahl: my fault for doing it
struct: I was paid by top players
jacek: huh
eulerscheZahl: at least now you know that i'm capable of writing some C++
eulerscheZahl: back to C#
struct: jacek you are also good with bitboards right?
jacek: a bit
struct: Do you know anything about using multiple int64 to represent a board
struct: Like if board is bigger than 64 bits
jacek: i was going to try one. i think i found gomoku on multiple ints on github
jacek: https://github.com/wwatkins42/gomoku
jacek: 19x19 board
struct: Thanks Ill check
struct: I never really done bitboards, not sure if its a wise choice to go this route
struct: for the first time
jacek: 8x8 boards are straightforward
eulerscheZahl: 7x7 even more
ZarthaxX: 1x1 evenmore
eulerscheZahl: extra space to clear after shifting
jacek: and beyong bit"boards", bit operations are generally faster
eulerscheZahl: you won ZarthaxX
jacek: 0x0
ZarthaxX: :)
TimberStalker: what is a bitboard? is it just using ints to make a 2d array?
ZarthaxX: that's a face jacek
ZarthaxX: jacek and copying the state
ZarthaxX: also faster
struct: I also found this tutorial if anyone wants to check
struct: http://blog.gamesolver.org/solving-connect-four/01-introduction/
struct: its about connect 4, but talks about a lot of stuff
jacek: too bad we dont have connect4 on CG
struct: but we do
ZarthaxX: that bot goes super fast anyway
jacek: but its ugly
ZarthaxX: kind of solved lol
struct: my feelings :(
ZarthaxX: noob struct
struct: which bot ZarthaxX?
jacek: oh karliso changed avatar
jacek: looked familiar
eulerscheZahl: i like it
eulerscheZahl: it's from https://craftpix.net/freebies/knight-character-free-sprite/
eulerscheZahl: but he recolored it to make it blue
ZarthaxX: struct the one of that article
struct: it goes fast at the end
ZarthaxX: i played against it years ago, goes super fast and has the optimal always
struct: at the start not so much
ZarthaxX: hardcode the options for beginning and gg xconnect4
ZarthaxX: anyway yes, its a cool article
struct: i got legend finally ZarthaxX
ZarthaxX: where?
ZarthaxX: ah
ZarthaxX: fall
struct: fc2020
ZarthaxX: i have to go there
ZarthaxX: gz man :)
struct: I just waited
ZarthaxX: proudy of my structy
struct: I was top 40 and got pushed to legend
ZarthaxX: ah, the waiting game, classic
ZarthaxX: LOL wtf
tomatoes: :thumbsup:
ZarthaxX: it's nice that they opened it earlier
MadKnight: eulerscheZahl
eulerscheZahl: MadKnight
MadKnight: remind me
MadKnight: what did u not like about java's lists ?
MadKnight: there was something
**eulerscheZahl reminds MadKnight
eulerscheZahl: arraylist<integer[]>?
MadKnight: like
MadKnight: oh right
eulerscheZahl: something like that is broken
TimberStalker: Why would you do that though?
eulerscheZahl: because i'm evil
TimberStalker: cant you just use integer[][]?
eulerscheZahl: or list<list<int>>
TimberStalker: that too i guess
eulerscheZahl: but when i know the size for one dimension but not the other
TimberStalker: You can still use an arraylist if you know the size of the dimension
MadKnight: but he doesn't
TimberStalker: Simple question. Can you use multiple files for coding?
MadKnight: ofc
MadKnight: i do
MadKnight: i'm using multiple files + custom script to merge my entire code into 1 file + cg local that sync's local code file with CG ide
TimberStalker: i mean, yes, but i meant builtin.
MadKnight: why would u need someone else's when u can make your own
therealbeef: Are there limits on source file size or compilation time?
Uljahn: 100k chars and 1 sec for the first turn
eulerscheZahl: compilation
MadKnight: yea 100k chars means 200k bytes if u use uft16
eulerscheZahl: i think 20s. a little more for clojure
therealbeef: ah, to prevent people from generating large lookup tables offline?
eulerscheZahl: to keep the database small
struct: cg saves all the code
Uljahn: to prevent submit history from exploding yes
reCurse: It can be larger than 200kb with utf8
TimberStalker: for those who use a language with curly brackets, do you use option a or b
TimberStalker: option a: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/34261701-5262-43b7-904e-5a5544a66699
CommanderCero: are you trying to cause a war
TimberStalker: Maybe
TimberStalker: I use option b by the way
VizGhar: You should not care about that :D
VizGhar: why do you care? For C#, C, C++ I'll choose style B, for any other language style A (Java, JS, Kotlin, Dart...)
zub: option a, all day
VizGhar: whatever ide choose on autoformat
struct: i use A to save my enter key
therealbeef: B. code needs to breathe
VizGhar: :D but you have to strike SPACE
therealbeef: made a bot that takes 2 minutes to compile :-(
struct: 2 minutes to compile?
struct: What have you done?
TimberStalker: How?
therealbeef: solving TTT using template meta programming
eulerscheZahl: "whatever ide choose on autoformat"
same here
eulerscheZahl: there are some really ugly styles though
eulerscheZahl: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentation_style
eulerscheZahl: like whitesmith, seriously?
struct: haskell seems even worse
therealbeef: compilation timeout is 10s :-(
eulerscheZahl: there are some examples of how not to do it IMO
TimberStalker: Who in the world would EVER use haskel
eulerscheZahl: JBM triggered
struct: therealbeef dont forget that TTT changes once you go above wood 2
struct: or wood1
JBM: yeah that haskell example is completely invalid
JBM: there's no while keyword, so it can't be layout-inducing
JBM: there was a viral tweet some time ago with the various haskell indenting styles
TimberStalker: wait.
zub: but if you use haskell you can post on your twitter about monads and think everyone thinks your super smart
TimberStalker: I just realised ti-84 programming is basically haskell
ZarthaxX: therealbeef u crazy :P
therealbeef: it works though ;-) instant regular TTT solve from any position
therealbeef: maybe I can let the compiler only do the later moves and put some runtime stuff on top of it
ZarthaxX: o.o
ZarthaxX: you should do UTTT :D
MadKnight: yea u can just bruteforce all the possibilities for TTT
JBM: TimberStalker: well haskell is basically math, so there's some idea behind that similarity
ParticleBeam: Odd. Code I ran this morning is running much faster now than before
ParticleBeam: Oh. Running slow again. Must have been random chance
jacek: its tired
ToshiTuringMachine: hi nerds
ToshiTuringMachine: i am looking for ideas to improve my code of the rings branf*ck score. any help/documentation?
ZarthaxX: hi toshi
ZarthaxX: :*
eulerscheZahl: manual gameplay
ToshiTuringMachine: hi brothers
ToshiTuringMachine: what score you have there? i cannot get better than 7439
eulerscheZahl: 3534
struct: 5881
struct: with simple solution
ParticleBeam: 5921 with simple calc
ToshiTuringMachine: wow gg. any idea? like i can create the entire alphabet with +[>-[>+.<-]+.->+<<-]
eulerscheZahl: +++++++++++[->+[.+]+.-<]
ToshiTuringMachine: yeah that is the test 17 but what's the best way to create all the 21 runes and not write anything
ToshiTuringMachine: i mean 26
eulerscheZahl: https://www.codingame.com/replay/510812160
close :P
NicolasH_42: c'est du brainfk ?
ParticleBeam: Odd. Replay not working properly for me
eulerscheZahl: was sagt er da?
eulerscheZahl: after f5 it does for me
ParticleBeam: Nope. Tried reloading a few times. Maybe its something on my machine
Stranger.K: Does anyone know how I can get the IP of visitors of a website and then contact them?
eulerscheZahl: that sounds like 2 close to impossible questions at once
ToshiTuringMachine: for me too the replay doesn't move after turn 9
struct: keep refreshing
struct: after a while it worked for me
eulerscheZahl: hardcode this
+[[+>]+[<]>]
ToshiTuringMachine: yeah cool
ToshiTuringMachine: amazing really
ToshiTuringMachine: but it says Failure: Bilbo has too many actions to perform (infinite loop?)
eulerscheZahl: told you it's close but not working
TimberStalker: what is that game even about?
struct: I think Im going to discard bitboards for now for HS
ToshiTuringMachine: the replay gave me a correct stop at turn 2600 lol
struct: I have some stuff i need to ask msmits
struct: euler do you think normal sim without bitboards will do well enough for legend?
eulerscheZahl: it's not the same code :P
eulerscheZahl: HS is an easy legend
struct: ok, ill do it without bitboards for now, its slowing me down too much
eulerscheZahl: pain starts around rank 100
eulerscheZahl: aka sayonara wall
struct: cp wall?
eulerscheZahl: yes
eulerscheZahl: 3rd of contest
struct: so if I win vs that bot
struct: how much do i climb?
struct: 80 ranks?
eulerscheZahl: below 100 or around top10
Illedan: eulerscheZahl suddenly changed to German in one sentence? :P
eulerscheZahl: as a response to the baguette language :P
Illedan: :D
4356gs: Hello In the new one here
eulerscheZahl: once i accidentally messaged ZarthaxX in German
4356gs: trying to find the way in the very first goal
eulerscheZahl: we have goals here: https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming/paper-soccer
eulerscheZahl: and https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming/fantastic-bits
4356gs: I am working in the Defibrillators is in the loop track
0ffset: Hi, i know this may sound awkward but can somebody lend me a hand on how to improve at IA?
JordiV: In the ANEO puzzle, anyone know why the 2nd testcase wants 36km/h and not 50 ? the distance is 200m the duration of the lights 10 secs
miszu: JordiV floating point precision loss :)
ParticleBeam: I remember one of the testcases I had a floating point issue
miszu: a hint: you can solve this problem with no division and all with integers if you do some tricks
JordiV: alright, so i am going to convert m/s to km/h by dividing by 1000 and multiplying by 3600, maybe that'll help :)
miszu: you don't need to divide
JordiV: if i multiply by 3.6 i'm using float's again (i'm still a student so it's possible imiss something obvious
miszu: don't multiply by 3.6
miszu: think of.. in high school how you deal with fractions multiplication and division
miszu: so you can keep whole numbers
miszu: did it click a bell? ;)
JordiV: Alright :grin: thanks for the help! i'll try it out :sunglasses:
MSmits: Hey, anyone want to play a Q-learned game of octapawn. Takes about 1-2 min to train in the browser and then you can play it
struct: sure MSmits
MSmits: https://trinket.io/python/c673de5c0f?outputOnly=true&runOption=run
jacek: Q-learny by whom
MSmits: by itself
struct: Also when you have some free time i would like to talk with you about HS
MSmits: selfplay
MSmits: hypersonic?
struct: yes
MSmits: i got time now for a few questions
struct: ok, what did you use to store the board?
struct: I havent got much bitboarding experience
MSmits: 128 bit type for c++, but it's basically 2 64 bit
MSmits: well, several of those
MSmits: 128 bit for boxes
struct: how can I store 13x11, in a 128?
PatrickMcGinnisII: MSmits I rewrote my UTTT into MCTS... it did about the same as my older version. I only got 750 sim games, any bit tricks u can think of I might be missing besides bitpacking the board?
MSmits: lemme help struct first here
MSmits: sec, lemme look up my formula
PatrickMcGinnisII: it's all good
MSmits: its pretty complicated
jacek: can i play with black
struct: if its really complicated maybe I can store it other way
miszu: ParticleBeam which lagnguage?
MSmits: nah sorry, but thats a good thing, this game is solved as a win for white jacek
miszu: I can have 16k sims
struct: For example for the board you dont store emtpy cells?
MSmits: i dont store the pillars
struct: the entire grid
PatrickMcGinnisII: I'm rewriting Bandas and seeing how many sims I can get, so I'll be around. U play. ;)
MSmits: ohh i remember now, it's vs code
struct: Wait you dont store the pillars?
struct: How can you know they are there?
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/dbfafb32-403f-4da2-b700-1d1687caaac5
MSmits: enjoy the amazing formula :P
MSmits: it skips pillars
MSmits: so thats why it fits in 128 bit
struct: hmm, ill need to study it
struct: I thought you used like 3x64ints
ParticleBeam: miszu What language for what?
miszu: so you could use the 128 bit to store your UTTT states?
MSmits: I think this is the reverse operaton struct
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/44c4a843-5e44-4c55-938b-1c7016042b2a
miszu: ParticleBeam for what you are coding
ParticleBeam: I am currently working with C#
MSmits: miszu it is actually possible to store a full uttt board in 128 bit, but it's extremely complex and not worth it
MSmits: I only do it for my offline meta mcts database
MSmits: saves space
MSmits: also better transpositions
PatrickMcGinnisII: in UTTT I'm not storing the states, just using a depth decay factor and adding the endgame to the first move eval
MSmits: the basic thing to realize is that there are only 8629 miniboards
MSmits: as opposed to 3^9 which is what most people think
struct: thanks MSmits, I had no clue how they were storing stuff in 128 bits
MSmits: yeah i spent a bit of time figuring that one out struct
struct: ok i finally managed to find the winning solution
jacek: a bit of time... i see what you did there
MSmits: :)
struct: for that game
MSmits: cool!
MSmits: I have trouble finding it
MSmits: hexapawn is much easier
MSmits: it only has like 252 nodes in the tree
MSmits: and using brain means you visit like 20 to solve it
Doumaki: helloes, i would like to learn some real AI
Doumaki: am 2cond year computer dev student
PatrickMcGinnisII: Quite a bit of 2d interleaving going on in that HS snippet msmits
MSmits: yeah PatrickMcGinnisII
jacek: i keep trying to go diagonally as in bt :c
MSmits: oh right, it;s not actually like bt. It's like chess
struct: 43422
MSmits: 43422 positions you mean?
Doumaki: what are u talking abt?
MSmits: several things at once sorry Doumaki
struct: I meant solution for octapawn
MSmits: Ohhhh
MSmits: lemme try it
struct: oh it doesnt play always the same?
MSmits: it's still learning
MSmits: from you
struct: oh nice
Doumaki: am working on this /ide/puzzle/factorial-vs-exponential
MSmits: yeah i have a hexapawn version that also learns from you, but it doesnt self train
MSmits: so it's just learning by playing vs you
MSmits: this octopawn does both
MSmits: doumaki thats a puzzle right
Doumaki: yepp
struct: So the learning is only saved on my browser right?
MSmits: yeah
struct: very good msmits
MSmits: i tried a 5 pawn version
MSmits: it took almost 1GB of memory
MSmits: to fully train
MSmits: still solved as white
struct: how long?
MSmits: half an hour or so
Doumaki: wait a second
Doumaki: u guys actuammy train AI s?
miszu: MSmits yeah I won
MSmits: cool :)
miszu: took me a while to find a combinations
jacek: and it's Q table?
MSmits: it's a giant python dictionary
MSmits: key = board 1 + board 2 + move origin + move destination
MSmits: it stores a score between -1 and 1
MSmits: and uses simple learning rate formula
MSmits: so no fancy NN of course. This is intended for my AI course. I'm testing it tomorrow with 2 students that are far ahead
jacek: Doumaki yah, its AI training
jacek: i never actually fully understood "policy" function training, i only optimize value funcion
miszu: MSmits for my UTTT I used lookup table for all possible moves and random moves for the small boards. Any advice for bigger board what approach should I do?
MSmits: jacek I never used it either, before
MSmits: I guess it only matters on transpositions, as you can get to the same state by multiple routes
MSmits: combining the state + move prevents some problems that happen with transpositions
tomatoes: bigger board is small board
MSmits: miszu you need to write a search
struct: MSmits also I have one last questions sorry, VS does not have int128?
struct: I tried to find but couldnt
MSmits: it doesn't
MSmits: this is the only bot i coded in VS code
struct: ah ok, its no problem
miszu: well I am doing MCTS but right now I do only 16k sims. I am writing unit tests for my game engine because something is off there. But I also want to optimize and get rid of vectors. How to get all possible moves but returning an array and somehow knowing # of moves
MSmits: with a horribly configured IDE, mostly no intellisense
struct: ill use wsl2 to use gcc
MSmits: hmm
MSmits: I might be the wrong guy to ask, i use a pretty far out way to generate moves and such
MSmits: there are simpler ways that are probably just as good
MSmits: hard to test
jacek: miszu well i use lookup table for small board as well.
MSmits: yeah i have had versions that do that
MSmits: it's fine
jacek: as for bigger board i 'concatenate' the possible moves
miszu: jacek small board is easy
jacek: bigger board moves happen rarely anyway
darkhorse64: You have been misse MSmits; you have a queue of at least three people eager to get knowlege from you
darkhorse64: *missed
PatrickMcGinnisII: rofl
MSmits: yeah it seems so lol, hi darkhorse64
miszu: but bigger board, it's like.. you need to check where last was played and then add all moves
miszu: so couple of conditions
MSmits: yeah it's painful miszu
jacek: yes, thats what i do
miszu: jacek are you legendary or no?
MSmits: it helps to put in some heuristics to make this move less likely
miszu: because I am legendary now
jacek: yeah im in legend
MSmits: because it's bad to give the opponent a free move anyway
miszu: do you have a method that returns a list of all possible moves or no?
MSmits: (most of the time)
MSmits: I don't make lists no
MSmits: I think i just iterate over them
PatrickMcGinnisII: in uttt you almost want to just minmax the smallboard wins
MSmits: as i create them
MSmits: PatrickMcGinnisII i tried that, it's bad
miszu: minmax is slow
miszu: I want to use vanilla mcts
MSmits: well not that, the eval function is bad
MSmits: vanilla mcts works great
miszu: yeah eval is not obvious
jacek: miszu well yes. i have 9 boards in my Board class
miszu: but for mcts you need to keep track of all moves
PatrickMcGinnisII: well I'm only Mcing 750 sims in 100ms, that's freaking slow
miszu: and it's a pain to keep track of
MSmits: yeah PatrickMcGinnisII i think research shows minimax is more effective with low calc time
jacek: hm? i just make move and undo move
MSmits: mcts scales better with faster cpu
miszu: jacek how you iterate over all children?
miszu: how you store children?
PatrickMcGinnisII: my small board book and large board library performed just as well as the mcts with 1/10th of the exec time
MSmits: I have a giant object pool
MSmits: children already exist
MSmits: they are just indexed to
MSmits: 700 mb of nodes
miszu: i get your ideas but can't picture the implementation
jacek: likewise. my game tree is just 'pointers' to the moves pool
MSmits: so when i make children I say: Your children are at index 125732 and there are 8 of them
MSmits: so that's 2 integers
MSmits: makes for tiny nodes
miszu: in your node, do you have an object for your game engine?
miszu: my game engine can do sims and all the moves
miszu: and calculations of win/loss/draws
jacek: the node is simple - wins, visits, list of children, move
jacek: what do you mean object for game engine
MSmits: I only have a Node
PatrickMcGinnisII: simple things like whether to use static or not can +/- your code spped by 10-15%
MSmits: no other objects
miszu: I have a struct called GameEngine. It is responsible to keep the state of the game and you can apply moves() play random moves() and simulate till outcone()
PatrickMcGinnisII: er speed
PatrickMcGinnisII: game extends board i would think
miszu: I have SmallBoard, Board which contains 9 SmallBoards and GameEngine which contains 1 Board
miszu: and then Node which contains 1 GameEngine
MSmits: btw miszu, for uttt i dont store the state on the node
MSmits: my node has the move only
miszu: ok but how can you simulate then?
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/694cdd6b-61a6-4ffd-8f33-a831756786dd
MSmits: ignore that zerochild thingy
PatrickMcGinnisII: u don't have to store alot of stuff, just pass a couple things on node creation
tomatoes: play while traverse
PatrickMcGinnisII: that's alot for 1 node MSmits
miszu: yeah but how can you keep track of the state of the game of that node?
MSmits: not a lot of bytes though PatrickMcGinnisII
AntiSquid: isNeutered would be a shorter variable name
jacek: bonus? status?
MSmits: status is solved -1,0, 1
ZarthaxX: jacek what did you do in breakthrough to be so far away?
MSmits: bonus is a bonus i add for causing free moves and such (= actually a penalty)
MSmits: its a bonus on selection
jacek: heuristic?
MSmits: yeah
jacek: ZarthaxX NN
struct: hacked referee
ZarthaxX: NN for what part?
jacek: for eval
PatrickMcGinnisII: not in uttt, but in other games I make one big nodelist and like MSm said, just store the indexes as pointers in the nodes themselves
jacek: used in jacekmax (or MCTS w/ ept)
ZarthaxX: jacekmax is a minmax of your own? :P
ZarthaxX: impressive
ZarthaxX: nice results
MSmits: it's UCT guided minimax
MSmits: best first basically
AntiSquid: which model was it ? some alphazero ? jacek
MSmits: works nicely
jacek: most of stuff is in the eval, it could be used in minimax as well
MSmits: yeah, you can do that jacek, EPT eval does not translate to minimax well
ZarthaxX: guided minmax???
MSmits: yeah, so not one depth
miszu: so you store just the move but where you store the actual state of the game?
ZarthaxX: you mean in the way it explores?
MSmits: but variable depth like mcts
ZarthaxX: mmm
ZarthaxX: wait what
MSmits: you backpropagate in minmax fashion
ZarthaxX: isnt it like mcts then ?
jacek: AntiSquid nah, feed board state into NN and use output as eval
ZarthaxX: ah,ok
MSmits: no, mcts adds scores
MSmits: this one replaces
ZarthaxX: mmmmmmmmmmm
PatrickMcGinnisII: in bandas i just seem to grasp how to do the move transformations bitwise for up and down
ZarthaxX: okey
ZarthaxX: i need to check it
PatrickMcGinnisII: er can't
Moctrof: Someone is strong for objet oriented design pattern and things like this ? I have a question not related to coding game
jacek: yes, the only difference
AntiSquid: homing minimax
MSmits: PatrickMcGinnisII it's painful yeah
AntiSquid: oof lag? suddenly i didn't see any new message for a while
jacek: ZarthaxX https://www.codingame.com/playgrounds/55004/best-first-minimax-search-with-uct
MSmits: i even transform the board so it sits in the corner, on ever move
AntiSquid: and then it flooded
PatrickMcGinnisII: rotate the bitmatrix 90 degrees and go with the left/right transformations?
MSmits: that way i can use the bitboard as a lookup for an endgame bok
MSmits: book
ZarthaxX: thanks jacek :*
MSmits: PatrickMcGinnisII I just iteratively push
MSmits: until nothing moves anymore
MSmits: so all dudes get pushed, if some dudes overlap, i do it again for those
MSmits: until no overlap
MSmits: while loop
ZarthaxX: MSmits i liked your python thingy btw
ZarthaxX: but bot doesnt play first
MSmits: thanks
ZarthaxX: :rofl:
MSmits: yeah so you're guaranteed the whin
MSmits: win
MSmits: except you dont, cuz its still better :P
MSmits: until you play enough games
PatrickMcGinnisII: hmmm, like i know its sloppy, but I'm trying to get rid of the char board that i have now
MSmits: wanna see my bandas node?
PatrickMcGinnisII: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/3e81a4a3-6696-4bd3-829f-87d780828c37
PatrickMcGinnisII: that
ZarthaxX: php?
PatrickMcGinnisII: that is a down transformation
jacek: :scream:
PatrickMcGinnisII: it's slow AF
MSmits: wow
MSmits: you're awesome for being able to read that :P
AntiSquid: char board @_@
PatrickMcGinnisII: yea it's garbage, but it plays
MSmits: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/13b4e19b-810d-4922-8b9b-0930ed68d5db
MSmits: i store the boards on the node
MSmits: cuz it's not much info
MSmits: all boards have 4 children so you can leave out the childmax also
AntiSquid: i am just looking at all the $$$$$ while trying to process the code PatrickMcGinnisII
MSmits: just index
AntiSquid: i never get used to the $ all over the place
PatrickMcGinnisII: i hate it because it reminds me of BASIC, puke ... but it's so easy to code
MSmits: easier than python?
jacek: my eval for bandas https://hastebin.com/mulopopazi
jacek: sill easier than php
PatrickMcGinnisII: PY drives me nutz, It likes wants to truncate my floats when i don't want it to
MSmits: lol
PatrickMcGinnisII: while loop, hmm
MSmits: i have one of those Chinese strings as well jacek, but for me it's an endgame book
AntiSquid: php isn't hard just hard to read if you don't use it regularly
PatrickMcGinnisII: jacek, google translated your hastebin... wth
MSmits: PatrickMcGinnisII python sure has its quirks, but i picked it up easily
PatrickMcGinnisII: Lost and destructive, victorious, victorious, victorious, victorious, victorious, victorious, victorious, afflicted, afflicted, afflicted, ....
jacek: thats bandas allright
MSmits: rofl
MSmits: PatrickMcGinnisII it's a compressed neural network i am guessing
MSmits: apparently it's pretty dramatic
AntiSquid: afflicted by the urge for victory
AntiSquid: or yearning
MSmits: wanna do my endgame book too PatrickMcGinnisII ?
PatrickMcGinnisII: is it chinese or danish or german?
**PatrickMcGinnisII chcukles
MSmits: 겆푪䟨킎췎ᇘ㘰䘊䘊
MSmits: it's the first part of it
MSmits: dunno what language
PatrickMcGinnisII: says it's koreean
struct: you have opening book for othello right?
MSmits: i do struct
AntiSquid: no it has korean mixed with chinese in it
PatrickMcGinnisII: yea, that's more like it MSmits, pure binary gibberish
AntiSquid: first is a korean sylabe, then some random ascii, then chinese and then korean
MSmits: yeah, when people ask me if I speak Chinese or Korean, I say only at the end of a game
PatrickMcGinnisII: one word is "Pan"
MSmits: Peter Pan?
struct: it speaks
struct: Its trying to send a message
jacek: thats where you fry your seeds
PatrickMcGinnisII: then "Thousands
AntiSquid: .this is what google translate gave me when i removed the hangul bits: Sang sang sang sang
MSmits: oh right, maybe my oware bot says more pan
PatrickMcGinnisII: this could take all day
PatrickMcGinnisII: "Pan Thousand Spit"
MSmits: oh no nvm it doesnt even use unicode
PatrickMcGinnisII: i give up
MSmits: just numbers 0 to 5
MSmits: with spaces even... os badly compressed
MSmits: so
PatrickMcGinnisII: the next word shoud be dead.... and si it would equal P.T.S.D.
MSmits: i wouldnt mind pasting more of my bandas endgame book, but my VS crashes half the time i try to touch it
AntiSquid: Qian qi qian qian
MSmits: the string is too long
PatrickMcGinnisII: end game PTSD that gives you PTSD
AntiSquid: to me it gives:
푪킎췎ᇘ => pyolpkuinhchwekkᇘ => Wow (English translation) :D
AntiSquid: which obviously has to be inaccurate
PatrickMcGinnisII: I think i remember you saying you preprocess best endgames, that would save alot of time
Bikoko: should I learn java or js for backend bros?
AntiSquid: 푪킎췎 = puffiness in korean, MSmits :P
AntiSquid: i suggest shaving your head
MSmits: lol, i do this already
PatrickMcGinnisII: I'll be puffy tomorrow, Thanksgiving
AntiSquid: Bikoko what do you want to achieve?
AntiSquid: and what do you want to do .
Bikoko: I want to be a backend developer
PatrickMcGinnisII: Americans: any excuse to pig out Everyone else: wth
AntiSquid: uhm ugh agh ... well C++ could help just as much ... what matters is what the company that you want to work for uses
PatrickMcGinnisII: js....frontend ... C# backend, heh
MSmits: on thanksgiving, all Americans are backend developers
PatrickMcGinnisII: I bought 10lbs. of prime rib, gonna take like 9 hours to cook
Bikoko: I want to work in a bank
AntiSquid: is thanksgiving banned in america ? lol seen some angry message on social media
AntiSquid: then research your local banks or whatever banks you want
MSmits: lol AntiSquid, what corner do the algorithms put you. That's a fox new conspiracy :P
tomatoes: cobol
Bikoko: thank bros
PatrickMcGinnisII: i remember doing cobol III, yea banks love that shiz
MSmits: basically the CDC discourages travel on thanksgiving to prevent spread of covid, is all
AntiSquid: fox news conspiracy? all main stream media is under the same blanket
AntiSquid: idk how much is true of it, i don't live in the US, lockdowns are real though
AntiSquid: UK is in a new lockdown till 4th of december or so
MSmits: mostly it's 3 camps nowadays, mainstream center/left which includes cnn msnbc and others, then fox right, then extreme right
PatrickMcGinnisII: there's like a dozen of us pigging out and hitting the pool
MSmits: extreme right is OAN and newsmax
MSmits: definitely not all on the same blanket
AntiSquid: well i don't watch either, all shit imo
MSmits: it's pretty bad
MSmits: the political bias varies, but the sensation bias is worst
AntiSquid: and fox news when i checked it was all over the place
PatrickMcGinnisII: don't go to Parler.com, holy crap there are some nutz on there
AntiSquid: worse than twitter?
BoBot: if I did not know, I would have thought parler.com is a gay dating site
MSmits: fox news has somewhat neutral news hosts and pretty far right opinion hosts
PatrickMcGinnisII: oh it's ALL alt-right
MSmits: it depends on what show you watch
jacek: newsmax?
MSmits: watch tucker carlson or sean hannity for some pretty extreme, crazy stuff
MSmits: or watch chris wallace for... mostly just news
MSmits: some what right oriented, but no lies
AntiSquid: uhm i doubt i can rely on anything there
PatrickMcGinnisII: example of parler : "COLORADO PROUD BOYS LEADER DEAL WITH ANTIFA BLM RIOTERS BY SLAPPING THE PHONE OUT OF HIS HANDS "
MSmits: probably not "rely" but thats relative
MSmits: jacek newsmax is a growing channel that just tripled in size because Trump hated on fox
MSmits: cuz you know, he lost and fox admits that
MSmits: (mostly)
AntiSquid: i didn't try parler, all i know is it's supposedly lacking censorship, which is getting really annoying to watch on twitter / reddit / facebook . but i guess it makes sense, right wingers would go to parler if they are banned on twitter
TimberStalker: interesting conversation
PatrickMcGinnisII: FB doesn't support a free internet, but doesn't want to pay taxes ... so i try out all the new social media platforms
AntiSquid: i've seen vids of crazy BLM / ANTIFA ... less of crazy proud boys, they exist, but they don't burn buildings down
MSmits: the critical part is that FB is not a news platform, people try to use it that way and then complain when they censor people for lying on it
MSmits: its a company
MSmits: they can do whatever they want
MSmits: twitter same
AntiSquid: not really, they are supposed to act neutral
MSmits: they dont have to
MSmits: no obligation at all
TimberStalker: Theres a big problem with censorship though.
TimberStalker: All you do is embolden the people you censor
PatrickMcGinnisII: Well they censor stuff that doesn't fit their agenda... they label alot of Truth as "fake" and dangerous. So I hate that
BoBot: in what way are they "supposed to"? am I supposed to act neutral? as a private citizen? when does my right to be biased end? how large does my platform/company be?
MSmits: what truth?
BoBot: have to be*
BoBot: before I am not allowed to be biased?
MSmits: facebook only censors because of their reputation
meh1001: The issue with them censoring stuff is that they are a company, but they are claiming the lack of liability for content due to being a public forum
MSmits: after all, genocide was commited through facebook
PatrickMcGinnisII: It's the 6 degrees of freedom problem... someone you don't know might get offended randomly
AntiSquid: they get some benefits like tax cuts or somesuch, didn't read much about it, but there's something they profit off under the guise of just being platforms for social interaction and they breach this by taking sides MSmits
MSmits: kinda gets you in the mood for some censoring
meh1001: so they can be a company, only allow what they want, but be liable for what they do allow
meh1001: or they can be a public forum and suck it up when terrible people say things they disagre with
meh1001: but you can't be a public forum, and censor views you disagree with, and remain logically consistent
MSmits: meh1001 its not about agreement mostly
MSmits: it's about people saying things are fact when they are verifyably not facts
MSmits: like "massive fraud" in US election
AntiSquid: but either way twitter / facebook got very political about it
BoBot: but-but...the reality has a well known liberal bias ;)
meh1001: Well I mean, I don't think anyone argues that picturs of people murdering other people hsould be taken down... the argument is people believe the censorship happens based on alignment with one side or the other
MSmits: lol
PatrickMcGinnisII: CG has mods....just sayin', self policing is a thing... like mIRC back in the day... you make groups and kick out anyone you don't like
MSmits: yeah i see it as moderators also
MSmits: they have rules
MSmits: you agree with them
BoBot: @meh1001 if one side likes facts more than the other side, the bias might seem unfair
BoBot: "damn truth bias" :/
BoBot: getting political fast over hear :D
meh1001: I agree confirmation is bias, but I don't think you can argue that facebook is a platform for nothing but facts..
BoBot: already feeling the heat
meh1001: confirmation bias is 100% a thing** I mean
iWillKickYourAss: GUY SENSEI
AntiSquid: not me PatrickMcGinnisII, i mean say what you want to say, but repetitive messages or random stuff like swearing out of nowhere, what's the point of allowing that?
MSmits: the problem in the US is mostly that if one side lies 1 time out of a 100 and the other lies half the time, everyone is a liar. There's no sense of degree
AntiSquid: the other folks on here are more extreme than me imo, they kept kicking some trol with a pikachu avatar, i thought it's funny / amuzing ... so depends
MSmits: AntiSquid, if trump was a random guy and came on here talking like he does, he'd be gone in 5 minutes
AntiSquid: not because of me
AntiSquid: same for biden
MSmits: definitely because of you. Or do you generally keep players around that repeatedly say the same stuff in all caps
MSmits: making no sense
PatrickMcGinnisII: My 75 year old father got put in FB jail for sharing political satire, sometimes stuff is just funny, people r too serious. And the dumbing down of society is real.
BoBot: I had a comparison for that once - people were kicked off a feminist group for talking about issues in an obviously anti-feminist angle, and people cried censorship...and I thought - if someone came on a soccer forum and instead of discussing soccer started shitting on soccer and saying that basketball is the best game in the world and soccer fans are idiots...should they be removed from the forum?
MSmits: not if they did it in the general discussion forum in their own thread
BoBot: comparison fitting here - if your forum is made for (mainly) discussing a topic - in CG-s case - bot programming - then spam is obviously going to hurt that goal
TimberStalker: Big difference between a political group and a soccer group.
MSmits: the fans are not that different though, these days
AntiSquid: i mean hate trump w/e, do need better candidates, but how the hell does everyone fail to take into consideration biden is a dementia patient with 2 brain surgeries. dementia patients can deteriorate very fast ... still i see people saying "i still rather vote biden", well in fact no, you're voting for whoever is going to replace him, Kamala
MSmits: AntiSquid you're right, biden is definitely mentally not as fit as a president should be
MSmits: but even if you compared him with trump on just that front
PatrickMcGinnisII: hey, sometimes you just got to unfriend people, even family... we are responsible for filtering/blocking our own feed, so who gives a damn if people are sharing links to movies like "Vaxxed"
MSmits: biden comes out far ahead
AntiSquid: uhm, he might be a vegetable in bed tomorrow .
BoBot: I am fine with people assuming they voted for Harris :D
MSmits: so might trump be
BoBot: I prefer Harris to Biden
AntiSquid: see? you are making the same mistake
PatrickMcGinnisII: youtube whacks documentaries... because of bias too
MSmits: he cant form coherent sentences almost
AntiSquid: you never worked with dementia patients, they can really deteriorate very badly :/
meh1001: I am glad no matter our political leanings, we all like to write code together xD
MSmits: AntiSquid, my point is, while biden might get dementia, that's all that might happen. Trump is a disaster on 100 fronts
MSmits: including the same one
AntiSquid: that's some heavy bias
MSmits: i dont see why
MSmits: just pick any random tweet
MSmits: and think about it
BoBot: wait why do you assume Biden has dementia? do you have medical records?
MSmits: nah i dont assume
MSmits: i just see he's an old man
MSmits: and that's risky
MSmits: he stutters so he seems worse than he is really
AntiSquid: no assumption
TimberStalker: I mean, you dont really need to assume. You can kinda just see it
PatrickMcGinnisII: people vote party line... and it's sad, the 2 party system is broken and an illussion of control over our own lives... corps. run the show
AntiSquid: it's known
TimberStalker: 2 party system needs to die
BoBot: so the same risk as with every old person being picked? you do know Trump was the oldest president ever?
BoBot: @AntiSquid known by whom
meh1001: I agree with that, 2 party is a sham. It's like the illusion of choice
MSmits: BoBot yeah it's the same risk
iWillKickYourAss: let's clash guys
iWillKickYourAss: nobody here can beat me
AntiSquid: biden is older
MSmits: but trump also has some personality disorders that have nothing to do with age
MSmits: thats the thing
MSmits: if you cant see the extreme narcisism, you havent been paying attention
PatrickMcGinnisII: Did you know that if the Queen of England made a statemtn to the effect of "Americans need to overthrow the govt." We would overthrow the govt.
AntiSquid: what?
MSmits: btw biden is physically healthier
AntiSquid: i don't see how that's possible, americans are proud of their independence
BoBot: @AntiSquid no seriously, if something like that was confirmed, a source should be easy to find - you should have statements from his personal doctors on public record... otherwise it is bullshit, because peoples medical records are guarded pretty tightly in the US from what I have heard
MSmits: google trump running
MSmits: and biden running
AntiSquid: it's bullshit because it's on video and he stutters ?
MSmits: see which one gives you hits
PatrickMcGinnisII: Elizabeth II geets mad respect here, especially since netflix is airing "The Crown"
AntiSquid: i don't know anyone who doesn't acknowledge he has dementia
BoBot: @AntiSquid anyone "diagnosing" people from their public appearances is unreliable, EVEN IF they are professionals in their field
AntiSquid: you can see the signs and the 2 brain surgeries are fact
BoBot: @AntiSquid YES, you cannot be honestly serious about diagnosing people from their public speeches?!
TimberStalker: Didnt biden also pop a blood vessel in his eye during a debate or something?
AntiSquid: and then the only thing that says he doesn't have it is the media
MSmits: what i dont understand though AntiSquid, what is your alternative to the media?
BoBot: wait which other sources of Biden's medical history do you have
BoBot: looooool
MSmits: the media are far from perfect, but pretty much any alternative is worse
PatrickMcGinnisII: They've tried twice really hard to tax the internet, they suck, we pay 3x the going rate for access than most people
BoBot: dude :D I think that Trump is a narcissist, but I cannot claim that he has a Narcissistic Personality Disorder, because I do not have access to his medical records, and that disorder hardly ever gets diagnosed, because the people who have it do not seek help
MSmits: same BoBot
MSmits: but in this case, he reaaaally flaunts the narcisism
MSmits: it's not subtle at all
PatrickMcGinnisII: Alot of Trumps policies aren't THAT bad comparitavely, but his leadership is sh*t and he's just another profiteer like the rest of them
BoBot: mental health is complex, diagnosing people if you are not a professional in a clinical setting is damaging to the society, because it hurts and trivializes the already badly stigmatized problems
AntiSquid: you can think what you want, but biden having mental issues isn't false
MSmits: they're also not really trumps policies. I never understood the urge to ascribe any policy of a government to its leader
BoBot: lol yea, why do people still think we have kings
PatrickMcGinnisII: my father is a PhD brain-picker, he often diagnosis Trump as Narcicist, the pros know... I say "it takes one to know one" lol
BoBot: even POTUS is a figurehead
BoBot: there is no way anyone could actually lead a country on their own
BoBot: his power is mostly symbolic, and is why picking people from the same demographic into power is also part of the symbolism
MSmits: AntiSquid i do think he has mental issues, but it's pretty average for someone aged 77
MSmits: if you know anyone that age in your family, you know they aren't all there, the way they were at 50
PatrickMcGinnisII: BoBot sorry but the lines between executive/judicial/legislative have been blurred to the point that the Potus almost has complete autonomy
AntiSquid: depends MSmits
PatrickMcGinnisII: Biden just does stuff slower and can't 'keep up' witht he fast talkers
BoBot: I am not saying executive is not powerful in the US, I am saying that POTUS does not hold the power, the administration does
AntiSquid: some are more lucid
AntiSquid: some less
MSmits: you should watch some clips of the way trump talked when he was younger and compare it to now
AntiSquid: some even work in their 80s
MSmits: his vocabulary shrunk by a factor of 4 or something
TimberStalker: He does that intentionally
BoBot: Bush did not go to war, Cheney and Rumsfeld went
TimberStalker: Its easier for people to understand if you dont use complicated words
MSmits: TimberStalker partially maybe, but it would shine through at times that he can speak "smarter", but he really never does anymore
BoBot: lol - when one guy stutters, he has dementia, if the other guy fumbles, he is a mastermind
struct: he should use paint like icebox did to explain beam search to me
struct: i understood it in 2 minutes
AntiSquid: wait ... that's derailing it, who said the other is a mastermind ? huh
MSmits: I've seen trump rant on for 10 minutes about his toilet not flushing :P
TimberStalker: a lot of supporters do
TimberStalker: AntiSquad
PatrickMcGinnisII: Ummm, Trump has like 100 criminal charges waiting to be filed on him in NY once he leaves office.
BoBot: I actually think he is quite funny, he has quite nice zingers
MSmits: he has some things in common with stand up comedians yeah
BoBot: mostly hurtful name calling, but the one where he went after Kim Jong Un's weight
PatrickMcGinnisII: he even said he might have to leaave the US
MSmits: jokingly, but it's true
AntiSquid: will he ?
MSmits: he may have to
MSmits: Biden cant even pardon him
MSmits: it's NY state charges
PatrickMcGinnisII: His campaign manager went to prison for election fraud...then he won, then he pardoned him...he lives near me...the dude is an ass
BoBot: Biden has said he wont
BoBot: pardon Trump...but that does not mean he won't
MSmits: if he does it doesnt matter
MSmits: they cant pardon state charges
BoBot: yea I know about state charges
TimberStalker: Why the hell would Biden pardon Trump?
MSmits: only federal ones
MSmits: it's tradition actually
BoBot: because he was convinced it was better for the country
PatrickMcGinnisII: After T attacked Biden's family in the debate, no way Biden gives him any slack
MSmits: pardon your predecessor to gain peace
lazily.evaluated: STFU\
PatrickMcGinnisII: personal attacks have no place there
lazily.evaluated: PLEASE STFU
Shreklock: biden cheated
lazily.evaluated: u guys can't code
Shreklock: i helped him
PatrickMcGinnisII: rofl
lazily.evaluated: whatsoever
BoBot: lol synchronized trolls
AntiSquid: see? this is not allowed on CG chat
BoBot: are you in the same room?
MSmits: if not, get one
Shreklock: ?
PatrickMcGinnisII: As long as yall support a free internet, we good. ;)
MSmits: #troll-room
MSmits: click it
MSmits: enjoy
AntiSquid: too random, too nonsensical Shreklock
Shreklock: pardon?
AntiSquid: you're pardoned
PatrickMcGinnisII: Musk launched more Starlink sats yesterday
PatrickMcGinnisII: trying ti get into Beta
TimberStalker: I thought starlink already works?
meh1001: I wonder if that will be available to consumers, or will it be reserved only for commercial/municipal customers..
BoBot: worldwide Internet coverage sound neat, and a bit sci-fi
meh1001: I'd love to live in the middle of nowhere long as I could still work remote
TimberStalker: Its literally meant for normal people who cant get internet
BoBot: I thought the goal was a bit humanitarian
BoBot: well, the thought at least :D
BoBot: if you think of Internet access as a basic right
TimberStalker: It still costs money.
BoBot: so does food
MSmits: anyway, I am getting some sleep. Gn all :)
meh1001: interesting, I though I had read it was restricted, but maybe that was just the beta and not the end goal
AntiSquid: didn't really look much into starlink but from what i understand it's a world wide web of satelites communicating with each other ... how will they avoid collision with newly launched rockets from other countries?
TimberStalker: End goal of starlink is to provide internet to anyone anywhere
BoBot: @AntiSquid the space is big... but there have been concerns raised about space debris
PatrickMcGinnisII: locally, the I.P., is basically a monopoly...$70/mo. is the cheapest
BoBot: and other issues
AntiSquid: yes debris too
TimberStalker: AntiSquid, they plan this all out. Plus, its extremely hard to actually hit a satellite.
PatrickMcGinnisII: starlink is $100/mo.
BoBot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome
AntiSquid: isn't american internet run by a monopoly ? AT&T ?
BoBot: this is scary, otoh thinking about it in a simulation seems kinda cool :D
PatrickMcGinnisII: IPs won't run fiber optic, so we have to do something
TimberStalker: I get internet from spectrum.
PatrickMcGinnisII: soectrum, yup...effective monopoly that i have to reset the router twice a day
PatrickMcGinnisII: er spectrum
TimberStalker: Also, did you know that there are massive cables that go through the ocean connecting the continents.
AntiSquid: yes
PatrickMcGinnisII: We need fiber optic everywhere
PatrickMcGinnisII: I worked on Nasa property
AntiSquid: really?
PatrickMcGinnisII: space debris is a thing
PatrickMcGinnisII: and it sucks
meh1001: We need deflector shields stat
AntiSquid: what exactly was your involvement PatrickMcGinnisII?
meh1001: or I guess we should start with polarized hull plating right
PatrickMcGinnisII: the starlink launches are actually pretty clean, they know the bits that have to come off will decay and burn up
PatrickMcGinnisII: the Chinese, russian, and even japanese are more prone to leaving space junk than we are
BoBot: the one collision Chinese created on purpose....major dick move...
AntiSquid: and there might be more in the future
PatrickMcGinnisII: AntiSquid it was a long time ago, I basically helped people get PhDs. And I installed stuff at the air force bases.
AntiSquid: cool . what happened next ? i mean would have tried to get more involved, but that's me
Random_Stuffs: you guys are old
PatrickMcGinnisII: After 911 it wasn't fun anymore, got tired of the politics and 50 calibur gun checkpoints
PatrickMcGinnisII: in 1988, the year I left college the first time, there was a hiring freeze at Nasa... you couldn't get a job pushing a broom at Nasa
Random_Stuffs: you are 48?
Random_Stuffs: 50?
PatrickMcGinnisII: yes, i just turned 50
TimberStalker: Damn. And im not even 18 yet.
PatrickMcGinnisII: oops 1992
AntiSquid: mhm, i remember all TV channels displayed black screen for 5 minutes to have few moment of silence for americans who died in 911 ... ya i was watching TV a long time ago ... all channels except for some country music one
BoBot: yea I was like...you left college at 18? :D
Random_Stuffs: lol
AntiSquid: US gets a lot of attention
BoBot: US has too much power :P
BoBot: attention follows
PatrickMcGinnisII: I did work at Harris and Northrop and got to see alot of machines mfg. parts for planes and helicopters... those companies are all about the benjamins...but not for their employees
TimberStalker: "the benjamins"
TimberStalker: what?
AntiSquid: China gaining a lot of influence and power :thinking:
PatrickMcGinnisII: $
TimberStalker: oh
BoBot: I prefer the EU, but in global politics China is fine as well
TimberStalker: Thats case china has over a billion people
TimberStalker: lots of valuable consumers
AntiSquid: fine as well ? i'm worried
BoBot: lol that is what I thought would happen - such a controversial statement right :D
AntiSquid: worried about china, not about your feelings lol
TimberStalker: You know if you say something bad about chana anywhere in the world, they can legally arrest you if you enter the country?
BoBot: China's foreign policy is pretty non-interventionist...I hate how they treat their own citizens though
TimberStalker: China*
AntiSquid: they have some extradition agreements even with some EU countries, if their citizens speak ill about them while in those countries they can be sent back to china
PatrickMcGinnisII: Imagin a free internet in china. Almost went to war over Pacific trade routes...so wierd...it's all boutt he $
therealbeef: got compilation time down from 120s to 72s :sweat:
AntiSquid: for now their politics don't affect us much, but that might change
BoBot: yea, I would hope they will not start intervening as much as some other global powers do...
AntiSquid: actually they do affect us .
AntiSquid: i mean they're involved everywhere
BoBot: no boots on the ground, I cannot deny economic influence of course...
AntiSquid: yes economic influence and i am sure they try or do actually spy on the rest ofthe world just like the NSA wherever they can
TimberStalker: China has been building a very strong military.
AntiSquid: it's a slow start: Hong Kong -> Taiwan -> who knows what's next
BoBot: do you prefer unilateral power?
BoBot: less conflict ofcourse
BoBot: but do you think USA is fit to police the world?
BoBot: I am more and more sus of that
AntiSquid: no
BoBot: actually, I have been sus of that...always?
AntiSquid: USA did their share of damage
BoBot: the question is - is China gaining military power bad then?
TimberStalker: I would say yes. They are much more open on limiting human rights.
BoBot: (I think it is still, because I am scared of them as well, I just am not 100% sure)
AntiSquid: i expect US to sort of suicide / fall like Rome ... China will just step in to take over if they can
BoBot: I think all countries should demilitarize, and USA should show the lead by not spending trillions on military
BoBot: @AntiSquid that feeling we share
BoBot: fall of Rome sounds very fitting as a comparison
therealbeef: Rome situation was a bit different. They were surrounded by locally strong forces and got eaten bit by bit
therealbeef: USA is interwoven with most of the rest of the world
therealbeef: they go down we all go down
AntiSquid: you could argue the same about china in that case since many things are manufactured there ... if they go down we go down
BoBot: yea, that is why I support as much independence of EU from USA as well
therealbeef: I think they are the best friends we can have at the moment though :-/
PatrickMcGinnisII: most of us in US are 'modern slaves' just like the rest of the world
AntiSquid: i wouldn't count anyone as friend ... it's all about businesses, power, money, influence, etc
therealbeef: true
therealbeef: it shoudl be about winning contests and having fun
AntiSquid: if anything they probably try to make others dependant on them by shutting competition down
TimberStalker: You dont need to shut down competition
TimberStalker: look at china
PatrickMcGinnisII: Our quality of living is only a hair better ... our food is junk, our industry poisons us, we haven't learned how to live in harmony. these people have some good ideas...https://www.thevenusproject.com/
therealbeef: there can be mutual benefit, though, especially if they share values
BoBot: I like that EU has started taking steps towards tech independence
AntiSquid: the air pollution in china is very serious due to their heating system afaik
AntiSquid: (source: chinese people)
PatrickMcGinnisII: close to 3B people still cook over wood
PatrickMcGinnisII: wrap your head around that
therealbeef: and charcoal
PatrickMcGinnisII: ahhh...'open-fires'
TimberStalker: You just accurately described a grill.
therealbeef: I find it interesting how the two major forces (CN, USA) in the world both are ok with exchanging human suffering for economic gain. i think this is EU's 'weakness'
therealbeef: the poverty, despair, if you can close your eyes for that (also politically), it's apparently very beneficial
BoBot: it is weakness only if your eval function only considers economy as something to optimize
BoBot: I do not think all people agree, even in those countries
therealbeef: for sure
AntiSquid: do you think EU is all sunshine and rainbows?
therealbeef: relatively, yes
BoBot: some cynical Wall Street guy asked during Occupy Wall Street - what good have the non 1%ers ever done and he was asked if he liked Beatles? he said yes :D
BoBot: I have tried to find the video of that, unsuccessfully
AntiSquid: how do you feel about Brexit from your country ?
therealbeef: i completely understand Brexit, I wish we had the balls for it in NL
BoBot: the same as I feel about Trump getting elected?
therealbeef: Trump election I also understood / saw it coming :-)
BoBot: maybe "USA having too much power" should be amended to "English-speaking countries having too much influence"
AntiSquid: personally i see downsides in both EU and brexit
PatrickMcGinnisII: Both yall live in better countries than the US imo. So yall debating stuff is kinda ...well...hilarious
AntiSquid: better for how long?
BoBot: I have still seen some weird adoration of the US in the Netherlands from some people which surprised me :D
PatrickMcGinnisII: I've been to the UK (well b4 the invasion), not the netherlands tho
AntiSquid: i am not expecting much good to come after the lockdown period
SandmanSW96: hey all, in the contests, multis, etc, is there a keyboard shortcut/hotkey for "replay in same conditions" ?
AntiSquid: not aware . maybe try ctrl shift enter
PatrickMcGinnisII: I couldn't stand the immigrants if I lived there, other friends in big cities over there are absolutely pissed off about the middle east invasion...oh there i go again, sorry - no politics
SandmanSW96: yeah tried that
AntiSquid: you could use a macro
BoBot: sry what now - the Middle East is invading the UK? I thought it was the other way around :D
BoBot: Tony Blair went to Iraq iirc
SandmanSW96: well if there is no keyboard combo a macro wouldn't work, just keep kicking myself for debugging code and then hit ctrl enter out of habit lol. then DOH once I realize it loads a new situation lol
BoBot: lol "invasion" my ass
therealbeef: Are things in the USA still as bad as they were portayed in The Wire 10-15 years ago?
AntiSquid: google macro editor SandmanSW96
AntiSquid: it would help. a lot with many different things
AntiSquid: not sure, there might even be a browser addon
PatrickMcGinnisII: rofl, yea i need to stay away from politics
PatrickMcGinnisII: The wire?
AntiSquid: or you code one yourself :P
SandmanSW96: well a macro would only work if there is a keyboard shortcut first right?
AntiSquid: no
therealbeef: the tv series about Baltimore from 2004-2009
AntiSquid: you create shortcut through the macro program
BoBot: The Wire is on my watch list - my ex suggested that
SandmanSW96: if it's that much work I will just reach for the mouse and click the damn thing XD
BoBot: should connect to current police brutality discussions pretty well
AntiSquid: it's not .
SandmanSW96: nah I was just wondering about any existing CG ones
SandmanSW96: no big deal
therealbeef: and the current media discussions, and politics discussions actually
AntiSquid: i mean just initial download and recording of your mouse / keyboard / mousclick whatever
SandmanSW96: haha no thanks I prefer not to have keystrokes etc logged
AntiSquid: but afterwards you could just press 1 button to launch the macro
SandmanSW96: not that I am doing anything illegal just meh haha I will just click it manually
SandmanSW96: just easier and faster to type and BLAM ctrl-enter etc
SandmanSW96: or ctrl-shift-enter like in clashes for test all
AntiSquid: ya i understand, not that i am illegally selling stuffed hamsters either hehe
SandmanSW96: just CSR doesn't do the same in multis
SandmanSW96: er CSE
BoBot: thx I did not even use Ctrl+Enter myself, though I think I had at one time
SandmanSW96: *shrugs* lol
SandmanSW96: no worries lol
SandmanSW96: the less I have to take my hands off the keyboard the better
PatrickMcGinnisII: The Wire, hmmm drug epidemic WAS bad 25 years ago, lately not so much - they legalized MJ in so many places. it's not as bad here, I dunno about Baltimore
BoBot: sounds like a feature they could add :P
BoBot: I mean do you not have a legalized drug epidemic now? the opioids?
SandmanSW96: the wire is a prison show
SandmanSW96: if you were in prison (not misdemeanor jail) for marijuana, you had way more than a nickel bag lol
AntiSquid: oh damn it's midnight, good night, was talking too long got stuff to do, but too much to worry about thought i only briefly pop in chat and waste few minutes .
SandmanSW96: but yeah set in baltimore, but here in arizona woot come new years day recrecational is all good
SandmanSW96: I am gonna sit on the front porch, private property, and blaze one for every poor one on earth \m/
BoBot: yea long overdue imo
SandmanSW96: yeah, colorado set it off
SandmanSW96: and whats funny there, it happened like I said it would lol,
BoBot: fucking hell, even caffeine is more addictive imo (from personal experience)
SandmanSW96: they literally said they had more tax dollars to spend as a result than they knew what to spend it on
SandmanSW96: here comes the BOOM, so to speak lol
PatrickMcGinnisII: i took a road trip to Wa,Or,Ca, and Co... did a bit of sampling about 4-5 years ago... all the new states are gonna see... it's all about the $. Fl. made medical legal and the politicians screwed it all up
SandmanSW96: lol I lived in albuquerque nm, about 2 1/2 hours from colorado,
PatrickMcGinnisII: Corps. take over everything.
SandmanSW96: and before it was all scag nasty stuff, seeds and stems mostly, then once colorado legalized it all, the quality up there in northern NM went through the roof
SandmanSW96: I'm just glad tommy chong lived long enough to see it lol
PatrickMcGinnisII: I bought property in Co., piece of crap house... then i found out it was a dry county...so i sold it. Was looking for vacay spot i could rent out, still made a profit... but property prices go thru the roof when rec. hit
SandmanSW96: yeah I woulda hung onto that land
PatrickMcGinnisII: homless in Co and Ca. is a big problem
SandmanSW96: dry or not mountain pine country is prime in the US
BoBot: wtf googled dry county - you still have prohibition laws in the US?! :D
SandmanSW96: Bo even in texas it is city to city
SandmanSW96: lol
SandmanSW96: like in the Dallas metro area, was a while since I was there, but 4 cities all one right after the other,
SandmanSW96: dallas wet, grand prairie dry, arlington wet, ft worth dry
BoBot: omg and now I am reading that there is a constitutional amendment specifically about alcohol
SandmanSW96: all in the same urban area lol I was like wtf?
BoBot: jfc USA :D
PatrickMcGinnisII: Dallas had a huge drug problem, I knew people who moved there...they all dead.
SandmanSW96: alot of major urban areas do, usa or not
SandmanSW96: though I won't lie it is probably worse here
SandmanSW96: meth made st louis and kansas city the murder capitols of the US
PatrickMcGinnisII: people still dying of fentanyl they geet from the dark web...oooh sounds so spooky...
SandmanSW96: oh god yeah we get warning ads on the radio about that crap
SandmanSW96: gimme beer bud and tobacco and I am a happy yank
PatrickMcGinnisII: 22 yr old kid i taught a bunch of stuff to... fentanyl...dead
PatrickMcGinnisII: sad
SandmanSW96: yeah fentanyl sp? is a stupid problem to have
SandmanSW96: at least green is just burning a plant
PatrickMcGinnisII: but try getting a pain-killer from a dr. even tho I'm a broken down old man... nope... BS
IfIHadATail: yeah I had surgery and they wouldn't even give me enough for the pain. it was BS
SandmanSW96: hehe patrick mcginnis I would say to ya like I say at the end of the work day, gonna go home and put some beer on my back
SandmanSW96: sometimes it goes the other way around though
IfIHadATail: and they treated me like a criminal everytime I went to fill my garbage perscription
SandmanSW96: I went to the VA hospital in phoenix for a broken wrist,
PatrickMcGinnisII: MJ is not a cureall, but face it - people need anti-depressants in the F U world
SandmanSW96: they gave me vicodin without even telling me
IfIHadATail: lol
SandmanSW96: next thing I know I am looking up at the sky and bleeding because I smacked my head on a brick window ledge, didn't feel a thing
IfIHadATail: yeah I don't have that problem lol
Car_sad_car: Hello. Is someone have problems with site connection?
SandmanSW96: got back to my apt, looked in the mirror, and I looked like an extra from the walking dead lol
PatrickMcGinnisII: can't get safe stuff... system is broken
IfIHadATail: sorry no dite problems for me
IfIHadATail: site*
SandmanSW96: went BACK to the same sorry VA hospital for stitches
PatrickMcGinnisII: We now live in a DIY community, 'cause you can't get what you need thru the 'system'
SandmanSW96: 2018 sucked ass lol
SandmanSW96: well screw pharmaceuticals for sure
SandmanSW96: I am not even gonna take this damn vaccine when they do put it out
SandmanSW96: and I am not anti vaccine I just don't trust whatever they are up; to
IfIHadATail: don't worry I'll take an extra one for you
IfIHadATail: XD
PatrickMcGinnisII: A set of people dying of cancer wanted to grow their own pot, they were all on fixed incomes. they put a few of them in jail... like they are dying - leave the the f alone
SandmanSW96: lol
SandmanSW96: I would have gotten it by now, might have for all I know
SandmanSW96: patrick yeah for sure
PatrickMcGinnisII: if someone isn't making a profit, they shut that stuff down
SandmanSW96: out here it's remote enough ppl can get away with it at least without any problems
SandmanSW96: haven't gotten mine yet but ex military automatically qualifies you for a medical card in alot of states lol.
PatrickMcGinnisII: they all suck: https://www.raps.org/news-and-articles/news-articles/2020/3/covid-19-vaccine-tracker
IfIHadATail: I live in california so I haven't had tha problem for a long time now :P
SandmanSW96: I look at it like a flu shot,
SandmanSW96: I take the shot, THEN I get sick, no thanks
SandmanSW96: let the high risk ppl have em I will be fine
PatrickMcGinnisII: dispensary stuff is still way expensive
SandmanSW96: yeah it can be
PatrickMcGinnisII: can't even get flower in my county with a med. card...just edibles and tinctures
SandmanSW96: but even before rec was starting to get legalized, out in the borderland it's like jaywalking
IfIHadATail: yeah but so is the cost of getting a misdemeanor :P
IfIHadATail: yeah it was pretty hard to get a cop pissed at you enough to write you up for it
SandmanSW96: nah if you don't have at least an ounce on you in a major urban area in az, new mexico, they don't give a shit
BoBot: yea it is just not worth it in many jurisdictions in EU as well
IfIHadATail: I remember when a cop made my dump mine out and gave me my pipe back :P
PatrickMcGinnisII: look at the ingredients of some of these tinctures... might as well blaze
SandmanSW96: yeah bo for sure, like you cross into utah out here you will probably do months plural with a bowl worth
SandmanSW96: then into nevada and pffft lol they don't care either
PatrickMcGinnisII: You can buy an automatic switchblade in Utah, but not ... nevermind, just funny
IfIHadATail: yeah my buddy went to the river with his not thinking about it and he got in trouble on the nevada side of the river and threw the book at him
IfIHadATail: he was pissed lol
SandmanSW96: lol I was living in south carolina, and still have the switchblade in my center console in my car
SandmanSW96: which turns out, was a no no in SC
SandmanSW96: but I still have and had an AZ plate on my car,
SandmanSW96: so the laws of that state apply if the registration hasn't expired lol
IfIHadATail: lol got lucky :P
Recovery_disaster: my test cases are taking minutes to complete. IS there server maintance ongoing?
SandmanSW96: which means if I had a new mexico current plate,
PatrickMcGinnisII: I can't carry my $400 blade I bought in Utah legally in fla. w/o having my weapons permit on me
PatrickMcGinnisII: smh
SandmanSW96: I could have a loaded 45 on the dashboard and would be good to go :laughing:
SandmanSW96: lol you need a permit for a knife?
CobaltMEN: same here, test cases taking a long time
PatrickMcGinnisII: switchblade, yes
IfIHadATail: ironically I'd proobablly get shot for that
SandmanSW96: hahaha wtf
SandmanSW96: name me one innocent bystander that got hit by a blade (I am sure it happens)
IfIHadATail: lol no but you know how it is
SandmanSW96: but that's ridiculous lol
SandmanSW96: I am kind of biased though, it is still alot of the old west out here
BoBot: @SandmanSW96 maybe in an action movie :D
BoBot: where they actually throw them
SandmanSW96: lol bo one of the things to make an assault rifle illegal is a bayonet mount *facepalm*
PatrickMcGinnisII: same license to carry a 9mm as a switchblade...hmmm
SandmanSW96: name ONE gangbanger who ever used a bayonette lol
PatrickMcGinnisII: all about the $
IfIHadATail: yeah old west by with over population issues XD
SandmanSW96: nah not in the smaller places
SandmanSW96: plus tons of room to grow
PatrickMcGinnisII: Ever chase off someone with a machete? that's legal...rofl
SandmanSW96: but they are turning phoenix into another los angeles ugh
IfIHadATail: lol on reddit a while ago there was someone that posted criminal and the old timey weapons found them
PatrickMcGinnisII: I looked at land in NM, almost bought it too... kinda off grid...didn't buy it... no internet
IfIHadATail: it was hilarious highly doubt I could ever find it again
SandmanSW96: lol been a while since I looked at the actual state statutes, but you wanna know what the ONLY law on the books was in NM the last time i saw, about when it comes to a home invasion?
IfIHadATail: found on them*
SandmanSW96: born/raised mostly in NM btw hehe
PatrickMcGinnisII: Had a friend in Albequerque, had one of them good govt. jobs ... MFr disappeared, never heard/saw of him again
IfIHadATail: no clue
PatrickMcGinnisII: what SandmanSW96?
SandmanSW96: ah shoot, he might have been put on an even better govt job then and had to break ties
SandmanSW96: well ok in NM, the last I saw, about a decade or so ago(and I doubt it changed much),
PatrickMcGinnisII: prolly jumped in a stargate or some shit, lol
SandmanSW96: hahaha never know
IfIHadATail: that suck had I known I had to join the milltary to use a stargate I would have joined ages ago
SandmanSW96: but so there, "property" refers to your home, your land, or your vehicle. and if it is even a rental if it is your residence same rule(s) applied
SandmanSW96: the ONLY law on the books,
SandmanSW96: was that "if it can be determined that the individual is attempting to vacate said property, lethal force is not allowed'
SandmanSW96: in laiman's terms, you can't shoot them in the back, willingly or be "proven" you did lol
IfIHadATail: so basically you can't shoot someone in the back?
IfIHadATail: lol yeah
SandmanSW96: go figure, for all the guns, etc,
SandmanSW96: comparatively it's one of the lowest home invasion rates in the US lol
SandmanSW96: because you are just that STUPID to kick someone's door in out there lol
PatrickMcGinnisII: Threshold common law here. if you shoot them outside...drag them inside, u good.
IfIHadATail: lol RIP
SandmanSW96: lol amen, it's your word against that dumb asshole, oh wait, he can't talk anymore
SandmanSW96: I don't know what may have changed recently,
IfIHadATail: this got pretty daark for codingame chat lol
SandmanSW96: but that was literally the ONLY law on the books
PatrickMcGinnisII: Actually, they have stand your ground law here...they basically made it legal to go snipe hunting
PatrickMcGinnisII: it sure did
SandmanSW96: yeah we kinda have the same thing, but it's just the notion that you are actually in real danger
SandmanSW96: like a guy pulls a knife on you, you can shoot him lol
MadKnight: but what if an unarmed guy pulls a gun on u
SandmanSW96: but just blasting on an unarmed man at a circle K not so much
MadKnight: (that's a reference)
SandmanSW96: lol mad then he ain't unarmed anymore
SandmanSW96: game on lol
MadKnight: tell that to the news
MadKnight: (PM)
SandmanSW96: yeah and the other side of that coin,
BoBot: "I mean what kindofa man would they think I am if I didn't shoot people who touch my stuff?"
SandmanSW96: if a cop is about to pull a gun on you,
MadKnight: PM SandmanSW96
SandmanSW96: do NOT reach for your phone or wallet lol
PatrickMcGinnisII: MadKnight you put the throw away gun in his hand i guess
MadKnight: private msg
SandmanSW96: ah crap mad, I closed it by accident, send again?
PatrickMcGinnisII: MadKnight you trying to hack everyone again?
SandmanSW96: nah just a jpg
SandmanSW96: which I couldn't load lol
BoBot: yea do not trust links from MadKnight
MadKnight: it's a news link
MadKnight: do u know TheDailyCaller?
BoBot: I do not know how he hacked that Moderator sign next to his name
MadKnight: ask icebox
SandmanSW96: lol mad that pic,
SandmanSW96: reminds me of how back in the day toy guns that looked real were banned
SandmanSW96: now airsoft guns look like actual m4's
SandmanSW96: and go figure in a half second or less to decide, real bullets fly
BoBot: "yea, if your gun looks like something that can kill people, it better be able to!"
SandmanSW96: lol if it looks real enough I am not gonna roll the dice and wait to see
MadKnight: no PatrickMcGinnisII we're discussing a taboo topic
SandmanSW96: lol it's not so much taboo in certain parts of the US
SandmanSW96: texans think they should be able to carry AK's into walmart, california thinks you shouldn't be allowed to have a cigarette on the 2nd floor of your own apartment outdoors, new mexico just facepalms
MadKnight: only in certain partis
MadKnight: parts
SandmanSW96: lol this makes me wanna listen to/watch the vid for toby keith's "american ride" pretty much roasting all of it
BoBot: sounds like a catch22 - I want to smoke, but I might get shot for reaching for the lighter...
SandmanSW96: lol bo that would be if you were black and anywhere north of the red river or east of the mississippi, or pretty much anywhere in cali
BoBot: wait cali is worse with regards to that? :O
PatrickMcGinnisII: the popo used to be just policing for profit, now they enofrce feelings too. ;)
MadKnight: BoBot whose alt areu ?
SandmanSW96: well there is still a difference between real cops and pigs, and the pigs gottta go
BoBot: @MadKnight alt? I have been here under this name for ~4 years, on and off :P
BoBot: mostly off in the last 2
SandmanSW96: lol MK remembers me as sandman I am sure, just different suffixes
MadKnight: there are lots of places with lots of pigs making others' lives worse
SandmanSW96: oh no doubt
MadKnight: yea i do remember
SandmanSW96: but not 100% of cops are pigs, unless you are in riyahd or pyongyang or something lol
PatrickMcGinnisII: SandmanSW96 true, making a mistkae is ok, making a mistake that costs someone their life...well, not so much. Since the riot in Tampa, they changed the local ordinances again.
MadKnight: eminem was trying to stay up-to-date so his last song contains reference to that cop
PatrickMcGinnisII: Facemask enforcers seem to be everywhere
MadKnight: as well as a reference to the quarantine
MadKnight: BoBot hmm i haven't seen u much when there were no contests
BoBot: yea I pop on mostly for contests :D
BoBot: that's how it is :D
MadKnight: BoBot PM ?
SandmanSW96: yeah any huge disturbance can get outta hand. when the red sox wont the world series,
BoBot: oh sry
SandmanSW96: that girl got shot with a riot control paintball in the eyeball, got a hemmerage and died
SandmanSW96: and that was just celebrating
PatrickMcGinnisII: I think I figured out my bandas bitboard
SandmanSW96: lol yeah let's talk code
PatrickMcGinnisII: but now my dinner is out of the oven
SandmanSW96: lol or that too
SandmanSW96: I know I get vocal on that kinda stuff online, mostly just to try to bring logic to some middle ground. it is way too easy to let things spin outta control one way or the other, just look at our last f'ing election *facepalm* I thought I was embarassed when "we" voted him IN... I am so ashamed of 49.9% of my country once again
TimberStalker: nice "middle ground" you got there
SandmanSW96: trying to make sense of it all
SandmanSW96: both sides are guilty of enflaming things, but the "voter fraud" orale... not gonna spark that one up in here
PatrickMcGinnisII: I have friends on all sides. One almost got arrested harassing people at a polling place. Some are just morons.
SandmanSW96: yeah
SandmanSW96: counterproductive as hell
TimberStalker: Maybe this "election fraud" will get dragged out for four years just like the last one.
SandmanSW96: like the anarchists in phoenix who smashed in windows and didn't even loot because of the "guy in minnesota the cops killed" and probably couldn't even tell you his name
SandmanSW96: I never said there was fraud, that ninja got his ass stomped lol
SandmanSW96: never thought I would miss Bush Jr
SandmanSW96: but by comparison, tap dancing jehova
PatrickMcGinnisII: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DqoQq1zME8
SandmanSW96: lol patrick
SandmanSW96: so..... how about that power of thor? pretty tricky eh?
PatrickMcGinnisII: ep2 yes
SandmanSW96: ah yeah I should give that one a shot
PatrickMcGinnisII: a little like code v zombies
SandmanSW96: I hit a roadblock on APU2 first time here, and never got over it since I had work, then so many more contests and multis
PatrickMcGinnisII: apu2?
**PatrickMcGinnisII scratching head
SandmanSW96: yeah the matrix one
SandmanSW96: a hashi puzzle "there is no spoon"
iWillKickYourAss: that "Bob and Alice" question is stupid
SandmanSW96: its in the hard puzzles I think
SandmanSW96: haha willkick yeah
SandmanSW96: if N>M blah
PatrickMcGinnisII: ahh i never did ep2
SandmanSW96: my least fav is height of the ball
PatrickMcGinnisII: hmm
SandmanSW96: which is n*64 if you ever come across it, so done to death I will gladly risk spoiling it
PatrickMcGinnisII: u do Ghost in the cell? that's my fav contest
SandmanSW96: I don't think I tried that one yet, trying to focus on one at a time
SandmanSW96: hey the most recent, they immediately posted it in multis,
SandmanSW96: does it carry your existing code over? or do you have to start from scratch again?
PatrickMcGinnisII: that's the first time i think they ported the code over automatically
SandmanSW96: thats cool
PatrickMcGinnisII: i usually had to copy/paste it
SandmanSW96: other ones, I had to reboot it, which can be good but not if you hadn't saved it elsewhere
SandmanSW96: nothing wrong with ref***ulating existing code but not if you can't glance over the old stuff
PatrickMcGinnisII: i think u get xp when u submit a bot the first time in a multi... so i think we missed out on some free xp there
TimberStalker: what is a multi?
SandmanSW96: yeah but still alot is given in clashes, but I haven't been around this much in a while so no clue
SandmanSW96: timber a multi is a bot challenge, that has league levels
SandmanSW96: all PVP
PatrickMcGinnisII: I have to rewrite challenge anyways, it can wait tho
TimberStalker: oh ok
SandmanSW96: most if not all are old contests, like the one that just wrapped up the other day
SandmanSW96: my first acct here made it from silver to gold in CSB while I was afk for like a month lol
SandmanSW96: came back and bob was congratulating me :laughing:
PatrickMcGinnisII: submit some bots, rank up
PatrickMcGinnisII: fall challenge cost me like 20 places
PatrickMcGinnisII: haven't done Yinsh, but that is struct's fault...smh
SandmanSW96: yeah alot of scoring used to come from clashes but I do love how these folks are on the ball and keep changing it up
struct: why? PatrickMcGinnisII?
struct: :p
PatrickMcGinnisII: lol, cause u made it so complicated
PatrickMcGinnisII: :P
struct: Yeah, it was hard
struct: I used game notation
MadKnight: struct
MadKnight: so what happened ?
MadKnight: i have no idea
MadKnight: something absolutely random
JohnCM: hey all... how do you make the blue text in the problem statement?
JohnCM: like output 'True'
JohnCM: i'm creating a CoC
JohnCM: https://www.codingame.com/contribute/view/57691fd38b2c396a5af2a828406bf673edcc
MadKnight: [color=stuff] ?
MadKnight: JohnCM still there ?
PatrickMcGinnisII: Template:Text
JohnCM: ok
JohnCM: yup
JohnCM: yes Template:Text did the trick
MadKnight: PatrickMcGinnisII PM ?
Rodrigo_the_coder: what is Template:Text
Rodrigo_the_coder: ???
Rodrigo_the_coder: i'm so lonely...:(
miszu: whatsup
Rodrigo_the_coder: what is Template:Text
miszu: no idea, I just arrived
Rodrigo_the_coder: fall challenge has ended, lets play CSB
miszu: you don't play CSB
miszu: you code a bot and let it play
Rodrigo_the_coder: i couldn't pass bronze :(
miszu: try new strategy
Rodrigo_the_coder: targ3-vel?
Rodrigo_the_coder: nope
Rodrigo_the_coder: ...
miszu: to reach higher level, you need to read a lot of strategies and algorithms
Rodrigo_the_coder: lonely again :(
Rodrigo_the_coder: why only miszu chat
Rodrigo_the_coder: where are the others :(
miszu: they left
Rodrigo_the_coder: :sob:
Rodrigo_the_coder: check the person icon beside settings
Rodrigo_the_coder: in the bottom
miszu: yeah I know
Rodrigo_the_coder: they are most likely busy coding around
miszu: for sure
Rodrigo_the_coder: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/c5a7cdf5-35fc-4c6f-84bd-4053be21ae8d
Rodrigo_the_coder: do you understand this? improve it
Rodrigo_the_coder: :sob: the most lonely coder is: me!!!
JohnCM: lol
JohnCM: if i'm not wrong, a series of if else for thrust can get you into silver alr
Rodrigo_the_coder: thx
Rodrigo_the_coder: u mean if elif else
Rodrigo_the_coder: i tried, but failed to defeat Boss 4
Rodrigo_the_coder: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/c5a7cdf5-35fc-4c6f-84bd-4053be21ae8d
Rodrigo_the_coder: hey
Rodrigo_the_coder: u there
Rodrigo_the_coder: :(
miszu: JohnCM hey how you doing?
JohnCM: still an if else
JohnCM: doing fine haha
JohnCM: i've been blitzing CoC
miszu: what you working on?
JohnCM: soon gonna be top 100 alr
JohnCM: just submitted two CoC contributions for review
miszu: ah nice
miszu: that's good
JohnCM: you?
miszu: working on my UTTT
JohnCM: haha i've been too lazy to start the puzzles
JohnCM: what's uttt
miszu: utliamate tic tac toe
miszu: 40th in gold and making a push to legendary
miszu: but I am rewriting my code in visual studio and using unit test for correctness
JohnCM: that game is hard
JohnCM: i got stuck at bronze
JohnCM: you used mcts?
miszu: yeah mcts
Cheekycoder: hey guys
miszu: basic mcts put you out of bronze
miszu: kinda optimized mcts put you out of silver
miszu: super optimized will bring you to legend
JohnCM: i used mcts
JohnCM: but i did in python
JohnCM: only can go depth 5-6 + needed heuristics
miszu: c++ my friend :)
JohnCM: guess i should recode in c++
Cheekycoder: i don't under stand any thing like what to type and what it means
miszu: I use visual studio and write unit tests
Lysk: in C++?
miszu: I want to make sure my states are working properly
miszu: yeah
JohnCM: ha what unit tests?
miszu: hi lysk
miszu: haha
Lysk: nice nice
miszu: unit test is like writing code to test your code
JohnCM: i know
JohnCM: but like what kind
miszu: ohh
miszu: example
Cheekycoder: you guys now how to code right?
miszu: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/47719c54-65a3-4908-aa10-26be5884a599
Rodrigo_the_coder: will MCTS help me on CSB
Zenoscave: no Rodrigo_the_coder
Zenoscave: wrong domain for the usecase
miszu: this test tests a win state and make sure the states are also correct
Rodrigo_the_coder: what language is this?
Rodrigo_the_coder: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/47719c54-65a3-4908-aa10-26be5884a599
miszu: C++
Rodrigo_the_coder: thx man
Rodrigo_the_coder: is it UTTT
miszu: yeah
Lysk: have tried a c++ profilier, I have that on my todo list
Lysk: ?
miszu: never used a profiler
miszu: I think most people's problem is they don't have correctness of their code
miszu: a hidden bug separates them from next league
Rodrigo_the_coder: uttt wood python
Rodrigo_the_coder: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/f34a193f-3253-4b3e-8c8b-a79e890b0038
Lysk: right
miszu: so I changed my mindset and test my code
miszu: my mcts pick a branch with 80% win rate but loses
Rodrigo_the_coder: in python, to get out of uttt wood in python is print(row, col)
miszu: rarely but it does that
Lysk: Anyone fwith feedback wether or not it's worth having the potion bonus price in the simu?
Lysk: eg: after brewing potion at index 0, the potion at index 1 has as price: price -1 +3\
PatrickMcGinnisII: lysk I think the bonus is in the input data
Lysk: yup it is, I was curious to see if it was useful to have same bonus calculation deeper in the simu
Lysk: say you brew the first potion at depth 3, should the price for the potions be updated when calculating score/action at depth 4+
PatrickMcGinnisII: I doubt anyone bothered
JohnCM: yea just use potion bonus price
JohnCM: chances are, things won't have changed by the time you reached that state, if you are optimal enough
Lysk: when planing on 30+ turns it could make a difference
RougherO: hello
