thibpat: I'm live streaming my progress on Twixt-PP! We'll focus on the minmax evaluation function to improve and optimize it even more! https://twitch.tv/thibpat
cegprakash: for my company to appear in the leaderboard what is the minimum no. of participants needed? I wish my company to be in the leaderboard during spring challenge. I've even asked them to give me less work because I'm representing my company for this contest :P
MadKnight: u got a company now cegprakash ?
cegprakash: I work in 1
LelouchVC2: Rumor has it that when you reach rank 1, you become Bill Gates
LoGos: well well I found a bug in my bandas bot that reached 10th place. Can I now call it a feature?
LelouchVC2: Now you call it a design concept
LoGos: :ok_hand:
darkhorse64: Does it get higher now that you have fixed the bug. If not, it's a feature
LoGos: I'm testing it right now. The bug was bad I think. In my MCTS in UCT formula instead of parent's number of visits I used current best child's number of visits
LoGos: I'm suprised it worked
LelouchVC2: That's me when my code barely passes any clash tests, i submit, and i get 100% score
braincoder2: how to change the thrust in coders strike back?
LoGos: What league?
LoGos: in silver you just change third value that you print
LoGos: between 0 and 100. That's the thrust
wlesavo: lol, new contribution based on MSmits homework
LoGos: may I have the link?
wlesavo: https://www.codingame.com/contribute/view/501591553806c109ea7a0c936bc6f99d0a4a
LoGos: thanks
Arnav-S: I am 1st in Wood 1 League Bot Programming, why am i not getting promoted
struct: you need to wait until submit completes
Arnav-S: ok thanks
Arnav-S: I though it was completed
Arnav-S: But it wasn't
Howdareu: i need help
Howdareu: am stuck on silver
Howdareu: on coders strike back
Howdareu: if u know c# please help
Howdareu: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/13f361f5-a2e0-4be3-ad9c-b55cb79b3d0f
TrentT: Howdareu, is using the shield needed? How are the results without?
Howdareu: depends what i change the thrust to
Howdareu: i have put the thrust on 50
Howdareu: it makes wide turns
Howdareu: if i make it lower
Howdareu: i worry that it will be too slow
AntiSquid: hey Howdareu i like your username
Howdareu: thnx
TrentT: You can have create a list of checkpoints and after you have finished the first lap
TrentT: When the distance to the next checkpoint is less than X, you can start moving towards the next checkpoint.
Howdareu: ok
Howdareu: thnx
toby666999: I have a question
How to pass the security check of CLASH OF CODE?
vivax3794: just complete the captcha?
toby666999: what captcha?
toby666999: I can only see the prompt to complete the security check
toby666999: not captcha
vivax3794: there should be a captcha, like this: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/638617938047270928/706272604360671232/unknown.png
Uljahn: google captcha is blocked in china i guess
Uljahn: workaround is to use some vpn service
eulerscheZahl: or play less chashes
eulerscheZahl: clashes
reCurse: euler how long does it take you to write a multi on average?
eulerscheZahl: basic logic can be done on an afternoon for a simple game like onitama
eulerscheZahl: the UI is the hard work
reCurse: Did you try using pixi directly
eulerscheZahl: so as a total: 1 week for onitama (beside my daily job)
eulerscheZahl: not on the CG platform
reCurse: Ok
reCurse: What's the turn/time limit again?
eulerscheZahl: 30s for the total game (all players)
eulerscheZahl: and min. 50ms/turn
eulerscheZahl: thus 600 turns in total
reCurse: For all players
eulerscheZahl: that is actions. you can add empty frames or have frames with several players doing something
eulerscheZahl: 300 actions per player in 1 vs 1
reCurse: Ok
Uljahn: im sick of clash invite spam already, btw the thread seems to be relevant although it doesn't look so, pls rate
https://www.codingame.com/forum/t/feature-request-ability-to-reject-incoming-follow/58429/4
eulerscheZahl: i did already
Astrobytes: Same
Uljahn: thx
eulerscheZahl: great to see you back after 3 years of absence
Astrobytes: Beat me to it :/
eulerscheZahl: :D
eulerscheZahl: meanwhile i hate codechef
Uljahn: i had nothing to say :smirk:
Astrobytes: Hate something specific on codechef or just codechef in general?
reCurse: meanwhile I hate clashers
eulerscheZahl: https://imgur.com/a/cmQ54Wp
eulerscheZahl: the last are supposed to be the hardest
Uljahn: yep, clashers are evil with their clash links in the chat
eulerscheZahl: but it seems there are just less testcases for the hard one. and a constant is killing me, not complexity for larger numbers
eulerscheZahl: i even submitted in C++
Astrobytes: Use D
cegprakash: I can stream during spring challenge if you guys wish
cegprakash: if you wish do a slash flip on chat
eulerscheZahl: go there https://discordapp.com/channels/466965651135922206/472807181163429890
Astrobytes: A stream where cegprakash asks us what the rules are for 2 hours :D
eulerscheZahl: btw did you lose interest on topcoder cegprakash?
cegprakash: no why
cegprakash: that marathon was tough
eulerscheZahl: codechef even supports D :tada:
cegprakash: i read in forum squaring distance could have given better results
eulerscheZahl: you said even a stupid algo can find good results in the 10s given
cegprakash: send proper discord invite link eulerscheZahl
cegprakash: I don't have access to that channel
BenjaminUrquhart: I do tho
BenjaminUrquhart: it's a publci channel
cegprakash: wittyprakash#3571 this is my discord id
eulerscheZahl: then join it
eulerscheZahl: "join us on dicord"
eulerscheZahl: above the chat
cegprakash: I already have discord
cegprakash: so that link won't work for me
BenjaminUrquhart: did you join the discord server though
eulerscheZahl: it's the CG discord server, join it
then go to the streaming channel
aCat: it will it's an invite link
cegprakash: what is server ID
eulerscheZahl: do you see the yellow text above the chat?
BenjaminUrquhart: click the big join us butto nabove web chat
cegprakash: I want a link like : https://discord.gg/hTKzmak
BenjaminUrquhart: https://discord.gg/qAKXEEv
eulerscheZahl: https://discord.gg/qAKXEEv
BenjaminUrquhart: bruh
cegprakash: got in
BenjaminUrquhart: :thumbsup:
eulerscheZahl: now locate the streaming channel
eulerscheZahl: and announce your stream there
eulerscheZahl: use https://www.timeanddate.com/ for the time
eulerscheZahl: and date
Uljahn: i think streams past bronze shouldn't be allowed during contests :unamused:
Uljahn: sharing the code is forbidden but streams are not, sad
eulerscheZahl: i have no opinion on them
eulerscheZahl: but i don't watch as i usually consider it boring
reCurse: Like someone would bother with the trouble of retyping the code shown on stream lol
AntiSquid: you can skip through it and get the solution / idea very quickly
reCurse: So forbid chat during contest? :thinking:
AntiSquid: you don't need to retype it ... especially not exactly as it is
AntiSquid: and what if someone does retype? i don't see how that's more of an issue
AntiSquid: few ideas scattered here and there in the chat doesn't give away an entire bot though and streaming top 100 bot for the current leaderboard is just annoying for the participants
reCurse: Well if you're going to compare at least compare right
reCurse: Anyone in top 100 could exactly tell what he's doing
reCurse: That's just as "damaging"
MSmits: it is, so don't :)
reCurse: Whether it's stream or chat makes no difference in content
MSmits: it makes a bit of difference if it is an official CG stream
reCurse: It is the official CG chat
MSmits: you dont want them to encourage it
MSmits: yes, but it's open
MSmits: it's not the same as putting 1 or 2 players up on a stream
reCurse: Were we even talking about official CG stream though?
MSmits: no idea
aCat: top top people usually do not stream at all - they are too busy with real coding
aCat: and ideas are nice to spread around
MSmits: usually
AntiSquid: whether you might consider top 100 little or no effort, the stream gives away too much if it shows how to make a bot to get there
aCat: you remember someone who did?
MSmits: I think they should show how to get out of wood, but nothing beyond that ofc
AntiSquid: either it's a contest or a learning experience where you share all the way
reCurse: I'm willing to bet money it won't make it happen
AntiSquid: Acat well i think there was 1 or 2 legend streams, no idea how much of the actual bot was shared though
aCat: hmm, I sadly missed them then :(
MSmits: I would really prefer if they did do a good stream though, for my students, if I get any joining that is
MSmits: the game might be too hard for them otherwise
MSmits: just to give them the experience of getting out of wood and experiment from then on
AntiSquid: "if they did"
AntiSquid: MSmits imo just direct your students to thibpat who does a simple if-else bot from what i could see
MSmits: never saw his streams. Does he speak clearly?
struct: oh prizes announced
aCat: thibpat is ok
AntiSquid: he posts the links on discord MSmits
MSmits: ah
struct: He speaks clearly yes
MSmits: cool
struct: he is french, but his english is good
AntiSquid: i think he is clear enough and don't think your kids will have difficulties understanding a french accent
aCat: had some lacks in bot-programming knowledge
MSmits: thats nice
MSmits: some contests though, are really hard to write if else bots for
AntiSquid: wait acat, what do yo umean by that?
AntiSquid: didn't he rank higher? why do you say he is lacking :p
darkhorse64: He wrote a top 100 OOC bot
aCat: I mean he does things with simple methods which is great
MSmits: thats pretty good
aCat: eee?
AntiSquid: oh nvm, he ranked lower than you aCat, sorry, my bad, but he still did quite well
aCat: ooc top 100?
aCat: lower than me
darkhorse64: lemme check
AntiSquid: probably top 100 gold ?
aCat: that's actually new codingame grading scale
aCat: ;(
AntiSquid: overall 169
aCat: lower than acat, higher than acat
MSmits: tracking the opponent in ooc is not basic coding, even top gold needed some tracking
AntiSquid: acat 119
aCat: ;(;(
MSmits: simple if else is not enough
AntiSquid: even bottom wood needed some trackig you mean
MSmits: heh yeah, i guess so
aCat: ok - you will learn something about game and coding
aCat: bot not about algos
MSmits: i dont mind that for my students
aCat: mm, evo, mects etc
MSmits: most won't even be able to do oop
aCat: he is not into that
AntiSquid: i got out of wood before the nerf, that was the most ridiculously strong wood boss so far :D
darkhorse64: I did not attend his streams, only Illedan's
aCat: in other cases he is nice as he is very communicative
AntiSquid: wanted to do a quick submit to see full rules, but didn't happen ...
aCat: I attend a few and put my input on a few things
MSmits: is evo = ga?
MSmits: acat?
aCat: yeah
MSmits: ah ok
aCat: I mean evolutionary algorithms is like a more general domain than genetic algorithms
MSmits: btw if anyone cared. I stopped stc for now, bitboard approach was too slow and needs a rewrite. I am doing PR1 now
aCat: and what people here use is mostly formally close to rolling horizon evolution (RHEA)
aCat: :P
reCurse: I kind of want to do a proper sequel to stc
aCat: oh PR1 i wanted to try some day
aCat: still sad PR2 is not in league mode yet
IAmNoob: anyone knows wahts about this new pacman
IAmNoob: thingy
AntiSquid: it's a contest and good morning
AntiSquid: :D
MSmits: pr1 has some haters, but it's mostly because competitively it is a bad game. But just to code a bot for, it is not that bad
MSmits: kinda fun imho
IAmNoob: i knew antisqiud
IAmNoob: but how it will be played
reCurse: PR2 is the only good PR
aCat: So i will be interested in your insights Smits some day ;-)
aCat: reCurse so it's not in league
reCurse: So what
AntiSquid: you want to know all the details before contest starts IAmNoob ? 99% of the participants won't know until it starts, i can bet on that :p
MSmits: reCurse I knew that you felt that way, and I probably will find PR2 to be better also. But I want a legend bot in both :)
aCat: *so why
IAmNoob: :)
IAmNoob: ok
IAmNoob: thx
IAmNoob: you are the 1%?
AntiSquid: no
IAmNoob: ok
reCurse: Will be hard to be legend in no league multi
AntiSquid: i can only guess what the game is, just like everyone else ...
MSmits: true
IAmNoob: yeah
MSmits: legend PR1, top 100 pr2
MSmits: or better in pr-2 if i see more potential
reCurse: It's not bitboard friendly though
reCurse: You should do something else
MSmits: lol, maybe I like the fact that i can't do bitboards on this.
reCurse: Masochism? :o
MSmits: it's mostly that I won;t be thinking all day: "what if i bitboarded this? "
IAmNoob: is it possible to derank
IAmNoob: ?
JBM: what's derank
IAmNoob: from 9 to 8
IAmNoob: sooori mai inglisch
aCat: no it's not
IAmNoob: ok
IAmNoob: thx
MSmits: also, right before a contest, it is good to brush up on some C# oop... I might need it. All this high-performance bitboard stuff on board games doesnt exactly make you any good in a real contest
JBM: what does "moving from 9 to 8" mean?
IAmNoob: bruh
JBM: bruh
reCurse: Really? It helped me in coif
MSmits: yes, that exception crossed my mind
AntiSquid: IAmNoob ignore these low level no-avatar people
pmor: I contemplated using bitboards for OOC...did you see much benefit from using them?
MSmits: but generally it doesnt help
IAmNoob: ok
AntiSquid: you can derank, but you can't get demoted to lower league
MSmits: well i guess it helped in ooc also
AntiSquid: does that make sense?
MSmits: point is, i dont need more bitboard practice right now :P
IAmNoob: 75%
IAmNoob: but this one
reCurse: I thought you saw that less as practice and more as a way of life
IAmNoob: is level 45
IAmNoob: 43*
MSmits: lol
MSmits: true
AntiSquid: IAmNoob it was a joke @_@
IAmNoob: ok:)
IAmNoob: how you type red?
MSmits: like this IAmNoob
AntiSquid: will have to add #joke next time ??
JBM: you need a higher level IAmNoob
MSmits: yes IAmNoob
IAmNoob: ok ok ok ok
**jacek hmm?
MSmits: IAmNoob
MSmits: type your own name
jacek: YesYouAre
IAmNoob: MSmits
JBM: be narcissistic IAmNoob
MSmits: thats my name
MSmits: now type your own
IAmNoob: IAmNoob :)))
MSmits: what color is it
AntiSquid: but it won't show up in red .
IAmNoob: white
MSmits: it wont ?
MSmits: damn
MSmits: well that's confusing him more then
AntiSquid: someone else needs to mention you
IAmNoob: You guys are such a troll
AntiSquid: :/
AntiSquid: it wasn't a troll
JBM: i thought that was you
IAmNoob: #joke
MSmits: IAmNoob, we hope you guessed by now that everyone who mentiones your name shows their text in red
MSmits: mentions
IAmNoob: i got it
MSmits: kk
IAmNoob: thx
MSmits: anyone other questions we can troll you about?
IAmNoob: :)
MSmits: will you be in the contest?
IAmNoob: yes
MSmits: thats cool
IAmNoob: i'll try
MSmits: oh btw. I won't be on chat much, but do PM me if there's any student of mine misbehaving or something
MSmits: or my colleague. I will slap him too
MSmits: :P
IAmNoob: :P
MSmits: usually during contest I try to stay off chat during first 5 days
IAmNoob: ok
IAmNoob: weird
MSmits: i need a lot of time to get a good bot going
MSmits: so i have no time to chat
AntiSquid: and about saturday night, latest, you can see him in chat spamming paragraphs of ideas IAmNoob
MSmits: this is true
IAmNoob: :)
AntiSquid: so that 5 days thing isn't true
MSmits: the second saturday :P
MSmits: well i guess in ooc i shared a bit more. I knew I wasn't going to be top 10 there anyway
MSmits: and didnt have any special tricks to keep hidden
reCurse: But think of all the people you undeservedly gave legend
MSmits: if they got it, they deserved it. That gold boss was hard
AntiSquid: lol ^
AntiSquid: way besides the point
MSmits: when i was doing XR, I didn't share anything. I think at most I said I was using bitboards
MSmits: ow right, another contest with bitboards =/
IAmNoob: i think it will be hard
IAmNoob: tha pac-man bot
MSmits: I have no idea
IAmNoob: with all the phantoms
IAmNoob: ghosts*
MSmits: the art usually tells you very little about what the game will be
IAmNoob: and the fruit eating
IAmNoob: no art
IAmNoob: i think at pac-man
MSmits: it could be a game like streetfighter with pacmans instead of Ken and Ryu
IAmNoob: not at poster
reCurse: Is there seriously any doubt it's not pac man at this point?
AntiSquid: depends MSmits, think about xr kind of a dead giveaway
MSmits: what do you mean AntiSquid?
AntiSquid: the hint was too strong
reCurse: Besides didn't someone find the "secret" playground of pacman? Probably based off that too
AntiSquid: well in pacman it should be even more obvious
reCurse: Too bad I forgot the rules
AntiSquid: well more like it stayed online for 2 years or so
AntiSquid: only zarthaxx submitted there :D
MSmits: who made that
AntiSquid: CG
MSmits: I see
MSmits: if it is pacman derived, there will probably be lots of BFS
MSmits: like kutulu
AntiSquid: ya
IAmNoob: yeah
IAmNoob: Graph theory
MSmits: I wouldn't represent pacman maze as a graph though
MSmits: unless it is really sparse
IAmNoob: yeah
IAmNoob: we'll se
struct: I played a bit of last pac mans just to see what changed
struct: and game has a lot of different stuff
MSmits: what did it have?
struct: jumps
IAmNoob: i havent play pac-man since 1000 years
reCurse: There's looparound in pacman :upside_down:
AntiSquid: do you mean pacman 2 ?
AntiSquid: struct
struct: Bombs that take you to start
IAmNoob: i think the contest will be about the old pacman
struct: It was the onje free on steam
AntiSquid: ghost trains!
struct: yeah
AntiSquid: it's still free until 10th of may afaik
AntiSquid: it has some velocity element also
MSmits: physics?
struct: The game just keeps getting faster
MSmits: oh ok
IAmNoob: thats a thing
AntiSquid: well not just that, if you go in a straight line you keep accelerating
MSmits: how would that work in a turnbased game though
AntiSquid: well if they do it like RAIC ...
MSmits: no idea... raic seemed messy is all i knew
IAmNoob: if there will be in the contst like antisquid says it will be hard
struct: cg wants to be begginer friendly
MSmits: I just saw games euler posted where he was mowing people down
reCurse: Statement comes with a frame data table
AntiSquid: well 3 more days so w/e
rmuskovets: csb is such an interesting challenge...
reCurse: inb4 people raging
IAmNoob: yeah
MSmits: oh it is interesting. I just like other games more :)
IAmNoob: is there not an option to deselect to auto-opening chat of a clash code?
reCurse: Oh wow they created new notifications to make clash invites even more obnoxious
reCurse: Thanks CG I hate it
AntiSquid: add ?disableChat at the end of your URL IAmNoob
IAmNoob: ok thx
rmuskovets: https://www.codingame.com/replay/457147252 edge-case)
LoGos: Hi!
I want to practica GA. Which puzzle/contest would you recommend?
darkhorse64: Mars Lander
aCat: Ash vs Zombies is simpler
LoGos: Code vs Zombies?
LoGos: I dont think I am in mood to implement physics for mars lander
darkhorse64: 10 lines of code for me
aCat: its also optim puzzle - engine is really simple
LoGos: if you say so
LoGos: aren't there collisions with rotations?
LoGos: Never actually tried it
darkhorse64: My engine:
darkhorse64: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/e0a07f00-5006-40fc-9915-9a705a63305d
aCat: darkhorse64 :*
aCat: physics is my issue ;p
LoGos: :kissing: thanks
darkhorse64: You probably will find it on the forum too
darkhorse64: That's the easiest part
LoGos: I remember why I didn't do it before.
How does physics work in these games? Is each turn a single frame? If so how what is a time between these frames?
eulerscheZahl: the code vs zombies engine is a nightmare
MSmits: dt = 1
MSmits: vx = dx
MSmits: ax = dvx
eulerscheZahl: i didn't save the input to reproduce it. but i managed to be on the same Y coordinate as the zombie (ash being the closest target). yet the zombie went 1 down as well, not only to the side
LoGos: MSmits thanks
LoGos: darkhorse64 you too
MSmits: np, for more details, look at the csb referee
MSmits: especially the collisons can be complicated
darkhorse64: One fair advice: start with Mars Lander 1 because it's one dimensional. It can be solved with a one liner but you can also try a GA on it
eulerscheZahl: while True: print("0 3\n0 4")
AntiSquid: is there cvz referee?
reCurse: Invalid output :P
reCurse: Didn't you leak that one too?
eulerscheZahl: then 3 0\n4 0?
reCurse: 2 \n
AntiSquid: no idea
struct: \n
eulerscheZahl: no AntiSquid, you forgot to leak that one
reCurse: Half-dick move
AntiSquid: hm not sure i ever had it, not all refs were available
darkhorse64: My one liner is a bit longer
darkhorse64: but works
AntiSquid: hey if you have it share it instead of calling me a dick
reCurse: I tend to respect agreements :P
reCurse: Sorry
eulerscheZahl: reCurse respects CG
eulerscheZahl: and is a fast typist
struct: How did the leak even happened?
struct: Is this fine to ask?
eulerscheZahl: AntiSquid got the referees for BotG
eulerscheZahl: in the preparation
reCurse: During CCs CG shared a bunch of referees to authors
reCurse: The first thing we asked during MM is if we can make them public
AntiSquid: folder of stuff shared on slack
reCurse: They said no please don't
reCurse: Then AntiSquid did it anyway
reCurse: End of story
eulerscheZahl: :popcorn:
AntiSquid: they never said that to us
reCurse: I guess it's the old "easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission"
AntiSquid: also not sure if it wasn't posted in main chat or just the team chat, if it was in main slack chat then about 50 people should have it and they kept it only for themselves
reCurse: I wasn't on that slack, there was one dedicated for MM
reCurse: Anyway we asked and got denied
reCurse: So I'm not sharing anything because of that
reCurse: Not because "I keep it to myself"
reCurse: And yes cvz is in there
AntiSquid: ya but my team was after yours, anyways no idea how many people got it
MSmits: it's normal now to have a referee for each contest anyway
reCurse: We made the same argument
eulerscheZahl: but that doesn't make old referees public domain
cegprakash: hey
struct: I think its just a matter of respect
cegprakash: I plan to test streaming using clash of code
AntiSquid: from memory i am quite sure i shared everything apart from some puzzle referees (shadow of the knight ? and such)
MSmits: of course eulerscheZahl, I don't mean it's right to leak, I just mean I am not sorry it got leaked
cegprakash: once the washing machine in my room finishes I'll start the stream
eulerscheZahl: agreed
eulerscheZahl: didn't you want to stream the contest?
cegprakash: yes
eulerscheZahl: it hasn't started yet
AntiSquid: if i don't share i am a dick, because i shared i did something wrong, well can't win eh ?
cegprakash: clash of code is for testing purposes
cegprakash: before the stream
Astrobytes: Can't you just sing a song or something instead of CoC cegprakash? ;)
eulerscheZahl: can you invite AntiSquid while streaming?
cegprakash: lol
struct: who would say that uyou are a dick for not sharing?
reCurse: No one
MSmits: I got a good song cegprakash
cegprakash: I can play some nice music
Astrobytes: Here goes Aladdin aagain
MSmits: :P
AntiSquid: i was told it's half dick move for not sharing something i have no idea if i even have struct
reCurse: You understood it the wrong way around
MSmits: is half dick even a real insult?
reCurse: The full move would have been to share everything
AntiSquid: ya ok, did anyone else share it?
reCurse: My mistake is I thought you had the same archive
reCurse: But guess not
AntiSquid: it's not about the insult, it's about what is implied MSmits
MSmits: ahhh
MSmits: size matters?
reCurse: Always
AntiSquid: :/
eulerscheZahl: then a low compression rate format such as zip is better than 7z?
MSmits: dont worry about it AntiSquid... it's history now isnt it, isnt this years ago?
cegprakash: starting now
cegprakash: http://twitch.tv/cegprakash
reCurse: Depends if you're golfing or not
MSmits: Celine Dion is ok too
AntiSquid: MSmits i just asked if there was a cvz referee, that's all, the past wasn't brought up by me
reCurse: No it's not and never has been :p
HDviews: can't get past loops
HDviews: fuck es tis
AntiSquid: apparently there is and i can't find it MSmits
MSmits: hmm let me see
struct: cegprakash we can see yes
AntiSquid: well whatever, the test cases are up so, that's better probably ?
struct: The only "hard" part is the movement imo
struct: rest is trivial
Astrobytes: omg he's playing CEline Dion
Astrobytes: We hear you cegprakash!
struct: 3 hours titanic
AntiSquid: cegprakash play panjabi heavy metal or something similar
MSmits: AntiSquid I found a bunch of referees, but no zombies
eulerscheZahl: that's a boring clash problem
MSmits: cegprakash when are you going to sing the titanic song. The mustic has been going on for a while now
MSmits: music
foxbel: hello guys
reCurse: Or do the flute version
foxbel: go maincraft
AntiSquid: mein craft ?
MSmits: lol
reCurse: oh boy
foxbel: :)
eulerscheZahl: is that all free music or will we see a kick from twitch soon?
Astrobytes: GoT OST.... not sure that's PD
AntiSquid: there is no kick for that afaik
AntiSquid: you just get your audio muted for the recorded video
AntiSquid: or parts of the audio
reCurse: Pretty much
reCurse: So doesn't matter if you keep your VOD locally
reCurse: To upload on youtube
eulerscheZahl: and he's not firm of the python syntax
eulerscheZahl: "n1 and n2 have the same number of digits"
eulerscheZahl: ceg not reading the statement once again :D
Astrobytes: hehehehe
struct: ha
AntiSquid: copy paste statement in chat ?
AntiSquid: bit by bit, see what happens
struct: I still remembe this clash
struct: this is sub 15s clash for sure
eulerscheZahl: you are mean struct
eulerscheZahl: saying that 7min into the clash
struct: I mean after 3k clashes or something
struct: Your mind just triggers when you see the answer
struct: I would only see the first 1 or 2 test cases and know the answer if I had done it before
AntiSquid: a | b ?
struct: There were many repeated clashes tat that time
struct: yes antiqsuid
eulerscheZahl: and now he codes an XOR?
eulerscheZahl: read the statement. saves so much trouble
eulerscheZahl: but i'm well entertained
AntiSquid: he should stop recording the chat :/
LelouchVC2: Statement: Code 3 people walking into a nigerian prince's home.
cegprakash: was I any good?
struct: Did he end it?
struct: :(
AntiSquid: the audio is very poor cegprakash, the music is too loud
eulerscheZahl: already over :(
cegprakash: that's what I was asking
AntiSquid: also most streamers don't record chat
eulerscheZahl: helps me to understand your way of thinking and the questions you ask on chat
Astrobytes: You asked if we could hear you :P
cegprakash: if I reduce video volume it should be fine I guess
Astrobytes: But yeah, maybe turn the music down a little bit more
eulerscheZahl: i agree, music is as loud as you are. i find it distracting
AntiSquid: do you need the music cegprakash ?
AntiSquid: maybe speak louder if you have music?
cegprakash: will reduce music during actual stream
cegprakash: just have to reduce volume on youtube
Astrobytes: I could hear ceg just fine, just the music was a bit much
AntiSquid: well the music was as loud as he was
eulerscheZahl: i tend to rage-quit when there is music
cegprakash: I was loud as well?
Astrobytes: You were loud enough is what I mean
cegprakash: I need some good music during stream
Astrobytes: The music should be lower compared to your voice
AntiSquid: ^
Uljahn: keyboard and mouse clicks were loud too
Uljahn: also looks like audio bitrate was low or comression was too high
cegprakash: oh
cegprakash: don't know how to fix that I already reduced noise from my end
AntiSquid: just do more clashes, record them all and only play recordings that you find good? :p
AntiSquid: or stream a puzzle so you can talk about it and have time to read statement ?
Uljahn: large noise reduction could screw audio too
eulerscheZahl: i'm fine if i can hear typing
cegprakash: yeah I type loud and I use the mic in my laptop
cegprakash: don't know how to remove keyboard noice and mouse clicks
cegprakash: *noise
Uljahn: probably impossible in this setup
Astrobytes: Ah it's the laptop mic, you can't do much with that tbh. I don't mind clicks/keyboards
Uljahn: yep, me too
AntiSquid: headset with mic, but personally don't mind the typing
struct: If your card support RTX
struct: There is the audio thing
struct: :)
cegprakash: My headphones mic doesn't work that's why I use laptop mic.. I'm rewatching stream now.. it's saved
Lopear: Hi
foxbel: Gitler
Lopear: Hi
LelouchVC2: That moment when you thought a shortest code clash was a fastest clash
eulerscheZahl: did you win by speed?
LelouchVC2: I submitted first, but only realized it was a short code contest when I processed the message I already okayed xD
cegprakash: the music was nice till it was titanic during the stream
cegprakash: when I changed to light of the seven it screwed the stream
Astrobytes: cegprakash I hope you are not using this as an excuse to stream the Titanic soundtrack :D
cegprakash: yeah I will use titanic
cegprakash: or find me such nice cute tracks
LelouchVC2: Take this moment to stream 70s hit music
Astrobytes: lol, I can hardly wait :P
AntiSquid: you can search for royalty free music, people won't know what you like cegprakash
Astrobytes: Cannibal Corpse, Necrophagist, Bloodbath, all nice, soothing, cute music
AntiSquid: i do like 80s and 90s
cegprakash: I actually have a nice playlist I use to dance in my zumba classes : https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaKATBlfRCHbK7IsV8J_6P2odSfXaHsqK
LelouchVC2: I particularly like drowingpool "bodies"
cegprakash: I can use that
AntiSquid: you should use your cultural advantage and play panjab cegprakash and try to look a bit happier
Astrobytes: Play whatever you want cegprakash, just keep the volume pretty low
eulerscheZahl: can you play this cegprakash? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkwNS1AsbE0
Quidome: 02:21:42
Astrobytes: lol
cegprakash: AntiSquid I turned of fan so I was sweating
cegprakash: the fan in my room is bit noisy..
cegprakash: yes I'll smile more
cegprakash: I was too serious with clash of code time constraint
Astrobytes: Hey, you were laughing sometimes :)
cegprakash: Jeez eulerscheZahl I thought someone was knocking the door
Quidome: Are the rules of the new contest leaked somwhere :P
cegprakash: I had to pause and resume several times to make sure it's coming from youtube or outside
Astrobytes: lol
struct: No shirts this time?
Astrobytes: Are you gonna do Wood -> Bronze or just Wood cegprakash?
cegprakash: mostly just wood.. I am a slow guy
struct: I was expecting wood -> 1st
cegprakash: yes I'll reach 1st though
AntiSquid: struct maybe it's because of the top 3 schools / companies ?
Astrobytes: On the last day of the contest ;)
cegprakash: just that I'll be slow
cegprakash: can't have a stream that long
struct: I guess, the personalized glass seems like a nice prize too
AntiSquid: i find CG is hard to stream while making it entertaining and CG staff always do it in 2, one writes and the other one types
AntiSquid: i mean one talks the other one types :D
Astrobytes: hehehe
Astrobytes: Was juuuust about to pick you up on that :D
eulerscheZahl: i think i should change my company before the next contest
Astrobytes: Why?
eulerscheZahl: no way to reach any rank there without colleagues competing
AntiSquid: ask for special inscription on the glass if yours wins: "euler carried"
Insufficient: hey guys in case its of interest i'm teaching myself searches for the first time and fyi Kaggle has a minimax tutorial course within its minicourse: 'Intro to Game AI and Reinforcement Learning'
LelouchVC2: Thank you for that time relevant information
AntiSquid: it is
Astrobytes: Insufficient, nice one. If you have any search-related questions you can ask on chat here too, lots of experienced people
Astrobytes: 1st prize - Samsung curved led monitor, I've never used a curved monitor. They any good?
eulerscheZahl: no idea, me answering is like 2 blind talking about the color
eulerscheZahl: but no tshirts :(
eulerscheZahl: my chances to reach top3 are minimal, while top20 is doable
Astrobytes: Speaking of colour, I'm colour-blind and your CG-Funge optim hurts my brain
Astrobytes: I have to put it full screen to be able to read it
eulerscheZahl: so you can't read this? https://i.imgur.com/AYcndoy.png
eulerscheZahl: sorry, didn't consider that when creating CGFunge :(
eulerscheZahl: me and graphics isn't working well
Astrobytes: I can just make it out
Astrobytes: I won't repeat what it says here
MSmits: I was wondering what a color bund is for a while
eulerscheZahl: referee is on github, PRs are welcome ;)
Astrobytes: lol, I'll put it on my TODO list
kovi: i have more problem with stack size
kovi: oh, prizes'
AntiSquid: Astrobytes what kind of color blind?
Astrobytes: red-green
struct: Is Yavalath fine_
struct: ?
LelouchVC2: ouch
Astrobytes: Yavalath is fine yeah
LelouchVC2: I had a color blind friend who'd I constantly ask him what color things were
Astrobytes: Yeah, I used to punch people who did that
AntiSquid: but but you were a chef !? i mean i assume you need good eye for presentation
Astrobytes: I'm colour blind AntiSquid not fucking blind
Astrobytes: :D
struct: Everyone in CG was a chef at some point?
Astrobytes: Not like I was serving purple sauces and shit
eulerscheZahl: i can cook noodles
chandanagrawal23: join all
Astrobytes: Just me and squiddy afaik struct
AntiSquid: well hard to imagine what the world looks like to a color blind person
Astrobytes: Same as it does for you
reCurse: Aren't there color filters simulating that
eulerscheZahl: easier to imagine than the other way
Astrobytes: Just differentiating some shades of certain colours is a challenge
AntiSquid: it's not the same, when you work in an environment where color is important (imo)
AntiSquid: @reCurse
Astrobytes: Well, I couldn't be an electrician put it that way ;)
trace..: fuck your self man......
AntiSquid: ok then what
struct: :(
AntiSquid: he didn't answer in time
Astrobytes: AntiSquid I never ever had any issues while cheffing
reCurse: I meant the other way around, to see what it looks like to a color blind person
reCurse: I think that's how they do accessibility
Astrobytes: The best test for accessibility (colour wise) is making sure you have colour-blind people on your testing team
reCurse: Sure but that's not always possible
Astrobytes: True
reCurse: Not to mention you need to cover all 3 or 4 of types
AntiSquid: you might need 2-3 different color palettes ? different color blindness different needs? not sure
MSmits: I remember playing some soccer game on nintendo, some old fifa game, against a color blind person. Easy win
Astrobytes: Some forms of colour-blindness literally mean that people can only see in a strict range of colours. I see all colours, it can just be hard to distinguish between them sometimes, or correctly classify them
AntiSquid: i played console on black and white TV MSmits :D
MSmits: nice
reCurse: I think there's post fx to simulate those so you can design accordingly
eulerscheZahl: there are funny fails with testers not covering all edge cases https://9to5mac.com/2015/05/01/apple-watch-tattoos-apple/
LelouchVC2: Yea, he did punch me once
LelouchVC2: All in good fun <3
Astrobytes: The search engine company I worked for back in the day got in several rounds of focus-group type testers, for accessibility + useability
Astrobytes: Was useful.
Astrobytes: Shame they didn't do that when they first launched the site as the bgcolor was #FF6600
Astrobytes: Can't find the old version, but that orange up the top here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20010927141209/http://2webpages.com/
LelouchVC2: If you use Windows, you can make it so your whole screen outputs with a filter for your color blindess
Astrobytes: LelouchVC2 Unless I'm trying to guess a colour it doesn't bother me enough to need a filter ;)
TheCaptainTraveller_d2b8: Im Not an expert at code :disappointed_relieved:
LelouchVC2: Neither is captain america
MSmits: lol, my first submission in PR-1 and I'm at least getting to silver
MSmits: is it supposed to be this easy?
LoGos: PR?
Jasperr: Platinum Rift
LoGos: thx
AntiSquid: public reputation
MSmits: seems like a fun game to me
Astrobytes: Pull request
MSmits: lots of games vs Zarthax
Astrobytes: Thought you were doing STC MSmits?
MSmits: I timed my bitboard implementation with floodfill and it sucked
MSmits: so have to rewrite it
Astrobytes: Ah ok
MSmits: I preferred to do something that helps me with next contest
MSmits: doing some C#... I practice too little
Astrobytes: Without bitboards?
MSmits: yeah, the PR games have no use for that
MSmits: also I am very inexperienced with multi-agent games
xDDD: why the descent is so easy?
Astrobytes: wrt your STC rewrite I meant
MSmits: oh
Astrobytes: Or just more efficient floodfill
MSmits: well I'll use a bitboard for somewhat quicker BFS (to store visited cells), but not for the board itself
MSmits: i'll use int8_t
MSmits: like struct said
LelouchVC2: I feel like I deserve a trophy every time I beat a python coder
Astrobytes: Yep. Makes more sense to me for STC
MSmits: haha, just learn python
MSmits: i did it pretty quickly, so can you
Astrobytes: BB seems like overkill
LelouchVC2: <3 thanks. I'll get to it over the summer when my classes are over ;-;
MSmits: well it would have been worth it if the floodfill was fast, but I'm starting to think BB floodfill just sucks in most cases
Astrobytes: You can do it LelouchVC2
LelouchVC2: I'll do it for you daddy :))
Astrobytes: If you can do a fast BB BFS you can do a fast BB floodfill surely MSmits
MSmits: LelouchVC2, the way i did it was i had 30 unsolved easy puzzles over the last summer and I just did them all while I was on vacation, in python
MSmits: no, i dont mean like that Astrobytes
MSmits: i mean parallel floodfill
Astrobytes: Ah gotcha
MSmits: shift all columns and rows to flood many cells at once
LelouchVC2: Oh, that sounds like a nice idea, thanks a lot! I'll do a crash course in a day, then spend the rest solving puzzles with it :))
Astrobytes: Yeah I remember
MSmits: i think the parallel floodfill works great on filling large areas, but it sucks for small ones or long corridors
Astrobytes: That does seem costly if applied to STC
MSmits: it should be ok for tron
MSmits: depending on the situation on the board that is
Astrobytes: Yes, like you were doing for OOC. And would work for Tron - but you're goign to bitboard Tron?!
Astrobytes: I really don't see the need for that
MSmits: I already have a bitboard for tron :P
MSmits: thats what my bot is. Not sure if it sucks because its a bitboard or whatever it is
Astrobytes: If it can be bitboarded, you will bitboard it
Astrobytes: I should know by now
MSmits: I actually did this a long time ago though, I think after kutulu
MSmits: or right before even
MSmits: it's my only live minimax on any leaderboard
MSmits: but it only got gold
Astrobytes: Fix it
MSmits: Platinum Rift - Episode 1
Promotion to Silver League in :
00H 26MN 16SC
Astrobytes: What is that game about again?
MSmits: I'll fix tron eventually
MSmits: oh, it's a risk game basically
MSmits: the board game risk
Astrobytes: Oh right the territory thing
MSmits: I've never done a game like that
Astrobytes: I love Risk
MSmits: I meant a multi agent game, like halite and such
MSmits: many AI's to control at once
MSmits: also basically non-searchable
Astrobytes: Yeah I know what you meant
MSmits: kk... I love risk too btw
Astrobytes: Is it fun?
MSmits: yeah
MSmits: people who complain about it, complain mostly because at the top the game is more about luck with the start
MSmits: but that doesn't mean you can't have fun writing a bot to get there
Astrobytes: Nice. Must do something one day (add to infinite TODO list)
MSmits: yeah, this is actually a faster bot to write
Astrobytes: Come to think of it, not played Risk in ages. Last time was in Sweden a few years ago
MSmits: the thing is that you dont actually have to code the entire game like you would in mean max and fantastic bits
MSmits: and even if you had to, its fairly simple
Astrobytes: Yeah, just predict what you have to and no more
MSmits: right
MSmits: mmh i wonder how high i will get in silver, i beat bronze at 35.85 vs 31.97
Astrobytes: Probably about halfway up depending on number of broken bots, it's quite an old multi right?
MSmits: I am guessing I will get stuck a few places under boss
MSmits: it's an old multi yeah
Astrobytes: halfway up+
MSmits: I dont see broken bots
MSmits: just bad bots
Astrobytes: Oh nice
Astrobytes: They could be broken tho
Astrobytes: Language updates make them timeout at certain turns etc
MSmits: ahh ok
MSmits: yeah maybe
MSmits: just noticed i have timeouts too
Astrobytes: Missed an edge case?
MSmits: it happens when I conquered whole continents
MSmits: https://www.codingame.com/share-replay/457192808
MSmits: I'm pink
MSmits: p2
struct: you mean red right?
MSmits: whatever that color is, sure
AntiSquid: foxtria
MSmits: that's a color?
Astrobytes: It's a very pink-y red depending what angle you look at it on my monitor at least :P
AntiSquid: fuchsia - don't care
MSmits: there's a lot of discussion about color today
struct: Yeah, but there is also pink, thats why i got a bit confused
AntiSquid: too many weird color names
MSmits: I just know maybe 10 color names
MSmits: when people start throwing magenta around, I lose focus
AntiSquid: really irritating, if you don't get the initial lucky roll ro beat all, then you have to slowly climb the ladder and go around ranks which you beat most of the time
MSmits: do you mean PR-1 specifically, or just any multi?
AntiSquid: about any multi with big league
MSmits: ah yes, that's true
Astrobytes: Yeah that's a general case for sure
MSmits: one thing you can do is just make a totally awesome bot. But if you're near your ceiling (for example when you try to beat gold boss), it does suck
AntiSquid: i don't see the point of hanging around rank 300 when the bot final rank will be around 30, min 50
Astrobytes: oh an btw - which one's pink? :P
MSmits: in that replay it is the guy that captured north america
MSmits: that was me anyway, i dont understand why it doesnt show player names
AntiSquid: that's another issue MSmits, you can't compare vs bots in the league above, so it's difficult to guess what improvements are best :/
MSmits: oh it shows at the bottom, silly me
AntiSquid: unless you use cgbench but still
struct: MSmits im getitng confused
MSmits: right, that's annoying
MSmits: what about struct
struct: For me the one who conquered north america is red
Astrobytes: Same
MSmits: yeah i think it is red
MSmits: but i see it as a dark pink
Astrobytes: Yeah but who's actual pink
struct: Karocyt
MSmits: i see that as a light purple
struct: player 4
Astrobytes: Cool, I was right
MSmits: yeah i suck at colors
Astrobytes: (testing my colour blindness)
Astrobytes: Btw, my original question was a Pink Floyd reference
MSmits: i'm not actually color blind to any degree. I just have extreme disinterest in knowing the right names for colors :P
AntiSquid: looks carmine to me
struct: you and your colors
struct: :p
MSmits: yeah AntiSquid, whats up with that
AntiSquid: i just looked up needlessly complicated color names
MSmits: oh ok
Astrobytes: Carmine my ass
MSmits: you should probably have that looked at
Astrobytes: lol
AntiSquid: might be some weird fetish so not sure about seeing a doctor, unless that's also a fetish
Astrobytes: No, that colour is most definitely not carmine
Astrobytes: or cochineal, whatever you wanna call it
struct: HEX #FF1D5C
NAME -
TONE vivid red
MSmits: thats the color of that replay?
struct: yes for red player
struct: so you
MSmits: ok
MSmits: how do you find that?
MSmits: did you just spend 15 minutes looking at colors?
struct: inspect elemet
MSmits: ah that works
struct: it gives rgb
Astrobytes: looks like pink if you look at your monitor one way, and redder if you look at another angle
xDDD: :zzz:
struct: I guess it also depends on monitor
MSmits: yeah it might
struct: Some monitors have higher viewer angles
struct: So if from the side it wont lose much accuracy
Astrobytes: My chair is quite high, monitors tilted back
Astrobytes: If I lower the chair I see more red, higher up you see more pink->purply
struct: laptop?
Astrobytes: Depending how close I sit to the desk, which rn is very close due to my back
Astrobytes: No, dual monitors + PC
Astrobytes: It's just the angle + distance
MSmits: yeah looks like i am losing games now. Probably half of silver
MSmits: good guess
Astrobytes: usually the case for the older multis, since bosses are usually boosted somewhat
AntiSquid: it's ok, can't lose them all
MSmits: Basically I simply coded a bot with a somewhat sensible division of pods over continents that then just go for the nearest unowned platinum zone
MSmits: super greedy
MSmits: enough to get from wood2 to silver apparently
Amrhossam: what does the rank mean, if it's a bigger number is it better or when it is a small number
Astrobytes: good start anyway!
struct: small better
MSmits: yeah I'm happy
AntiSquid: it's like on any leaderboard, 1 is at the top Amrhossam
Amrhossam: what are the chances of me getting hired from this website :D
Amrhossam: like in a scale from 0 to 10
AntiSquid: talk to staff directly ?
AntiSquid: and ask them
xDDD: how to turn off discord bar
xDDD: ?
Amrhossam: i'm not seeking something formal i'm just chatting
struct: I used ublock
dbdr: MSmits: multiagent is a subjective definition. you can say PR1 is a single agent, you just have multiple actions per turn
dbdr: is every card in locam a separate agent? ;)
Astrobytes: CSB, MeanMax
AntiSquid: do we have any multi agent then?
dbdr: same, single agent, multiple actions
Astrobytes: Yes I'm agreeing dbdr :)
dbdr: I think a real multiagent if if they can't communicate, or limitedly
dbdr: like separate physical robots in the real world
Astrobytes: It's definitely a bit of a confusing term on CG
dbdr: so I would say CG cannot have multiagent by counstruction
dbdr: well, calm might be multi agent, and you only control one of them
dbdr: the other agent is the other player, and you collaborate
Astrobytes: (theoretically)
AntiSquid: but it's not your code on the other agent
dbdr: exactly
Astrobytes: In practice, there was not a great deal of collaboration
dbdr: that's what makes it multiagent
AntiSquid: are you saying that if there are two separate instances of your code run then it's not a multi agent?
dbdr: yes, just some. like I would make a pie because it's needed, not necessarily make the whole order
dbdr: the other might pick it up, or me a piece he prepared
AntiSquid: say your CSB code would be run for each pod individually and you can only output actions for 1 pod
Astrobytes: Please don't remind me of that game dbdr :D
dbdr: two instances of your code could be multiagent if they have limited communication
dbdr: :D
dbdr: I liked calm :)
AntiSquid: well i mean without communication
dbdr: then yes
Astrobytes: I liked it a bit, but not a lot....
dbdr: would be interesting
Astrobytes: Yes, it would be
Doumaki: "Hello World"
AntiSquid: wait, it's actually possible on CG
dbdr: also you could be allowed to communicate N bits per turn
Doumaki: i v been dying to do that
dbdr: is it?
AntiSquid: in an odd way
AntiSquid: maybe you still wouldn't consider it multi agent ?
Astrobytes: How so?
dbdr: well, if it's the same program running, you share the same memory
dbdr: if your bot is stateful
AntiSquid: let's say each of your units have their own turn ? they get their own set of inputs regarding the game state
dbdr: right, but they can communicate using global variables
dbdr: or local vars of your main()
dbdr: so that's cheating
dbdr: the sdk would need to start several instances of your bot, and I don't think it supports that
Astrobytes: Or you mean, run as a 4 player but still have two of your own bots? I don'#t think that's possible
dbdr: yes, would need to modify the sdk
Astrobytes: hmm
dbdr: not a lot actually, you can already play against yourself
dbdr: but yeah, scoring would be different
AntiSquid: think in terms of code a la mode ?
dbdr: hm, the referee could handle that part
dbdr: yeah, give the same score to bots of the same player
AntiSquid: the referee can create 2 instances of the same bot vs 2 instances of the same bot
dbdr: but the sdk will use 4 players for a 4 player game, not 2x2
Astrobytes: Oh right, and each instance can have x ID
dbdr: the referee does not start the bots
dbdr: the sdk does
AntiSquid: but in code a la mode you don't keep your globals do you ?
AntiSquid: i forgot
Astrobytes: No but you also don't have two of your own agents
dbdr: you do, it was actually a source of bugs
dbdr: so bots did not reset correctly for their second game
struct: yeah, there is no restart option on sdk
Astrobytes: Hmmm
Amrhossam: who's interested in Computational fluid dynamics
Astrobytes: It doesn't seem feasible to me
Astrobytes: (wrt true multi-agent)
dbdr: maybe with the referee making you play many games, but most are fake ones :D
dbdr: too complicated
dbdr: gotta go, gn
AntiSquid: gn
Astrobytes: gn
MSmits: gotta go too, gn
Astrobytes: gn
struct: gn
Astrobytes: I'm out too, knackered
Astrobytes: gn
struct: gn
AntiSquid: bye
MadKnight: everyone's gn'ing, Automaton2000
Automaton2000: how do i get it
MadKnight: but is anyone still alive here, Automaton2000 ?
Automaton2000: ok i will try it
LelouchVC2: It's amazing that I'm climbing the ranks through clashes coding in c++
Rbee: shortest mode makes no sense in CoC if you use anything except python
MadKnight: or ruby
MadKnight: or bash
ThePythonian: Yeah, I never really liked it that much, because it really just encourages spaghetti code
occanowey: all of coc encourages spaghetti code
cegprakash: hi MadKnight
cegprakash: hi all..
cegprakash: I'm planning to stream bot-programming (random challenge) with a starter (boilerplate) code in CPP. If you're interested flip a table
braincoder2: how to change the thrust in coders strike back?
