From CG community
Revision as of 05:29, 29 June 2022 by Chat Log (talk | contribs) (Created page with "<img src=/a/7946484028034> linjoehan: hello <img src=/a/43135502422075> eulerscheZahl: moin <img src=/a/75369242083208> jacek: good morning <img src=/a/85780687840269> Juan...")
(diff) ← Older revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)
Jump to navigation Jump to search

linjoehan: hello

eulerscheZahl: moin

jacek: good morning

Juan_two: Good morning

OldJohn: Good morning everyone !

derjack: :upside_down:

DomiKo: godd morning!

Titann37: hi all

Default avatar.png ghaith_hedi: good morning

emh: jacek what can you tell me about NN implementation for CG? how many hidden layers do I need? what is better, fixed point or floating point? embed weights in forward propagation or separate code and data for loop performance?

emh: I guess size matters so then no embedding (instructions would be repeated and consume too much space)

jacek: i replied there about the size. weights for cg are just lowered precision floats

jacek: it has only 1 hidden layer

emh: ok

Uljahn: how many bits per float? guess model size and precision may benefit from Quantization Aware Training

jacek: i used normal floats in training. for cg i use my custom int16 divided thing. i divide by 2048.0 so precision is around 0.0005

jacek: i dont know if this affected the model strength in any way

emh: I see

DomiKo: it could affect but it really depends on model, so the only way is to test this. I locally test model vs compressed model to see how much it affects.

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: hi

Default avatar.png ThomasGottschalk: hey

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: it me

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: who r u

Default avatar.png ThomasGottschalk: oh Im new

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: i am also new

Default avatar.png ThomasGottschalk: oh nice

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: i started like 2 week ago

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: when you start?

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: can i follow you?

Default avatar.png ThomasGottschalk: With coding like almost 1 year ago but with codinggames like 2 weeks

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: nice

Default avatar.png ThomasGottschalk: follow me? what do you mean with that

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: mean that i be your friend

Default avatar.png ThomasGottschalk: oh yeah sure

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: thank u

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: i follow you already

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: my name is insanoguy

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: just search my name and press follow

Default avatar.png ThomasGottschalk: oh ok sure

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: nice

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: now let chat at our own chat

Default avatar.png ThomasGottschalk: sire

Default avatar.png ThomasGottschalk: sure

derjack: and chat is still going

Default avatar.png SinnerJyze: Halu

Default avatar.png ThomasGottschalk: hey

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: hi

Default avatar.png SinnerJyze: Kinda new here

Default avatar.png ThomasGottschalk: samwe

Default avatar.png ThomasGottschalk: sane

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: me too

Default avatar.png ThomasGottschalk: same

Default avatar.png SinnerJyze: These text bombs seems overwhelming for me lol

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: i be u friend

Default avatar.png SinnerJyze: Sure,mind if I ask where you guys from?

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: singapore

Default avatar.png SinnerJyze: Ayy wasup

Default avatar.png SinnerJyze: Phil here

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: hiiii

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: ./

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: can follow me?

Default avatar.png SinnerJyze: Greetings my Sout-east asian comrade

Default avatar.png SinnerJyze: lol

Default avatar.png SinnerJyze: Sure, let me do it

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: i follow u already

Default avatar.png ThomasGottschalk: Can someone gift me the fortnite battlepass

5DN1L: not here, ThomasGottschalk

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: what is that

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: who are you

Default avatar.png INSANOGUY: i do clash

5DN1L: i'm a chat moderator

Default avatar.png SinnerJyze: No solicitations, right?

5DN1L: right

Default avatar.png SinnerJyze: I thought so

Default avatar.png omharry: hi

Default avatar.png omharry: hello

Default avatar.png omharry: will anybody be my friend

Default avatar.png omharry: please

Default avatar.png SumolAnanas: me

Default avatar.png omharry: yay

Default avatar.png omharry: are you from france

Default avatar.png omharry: because you have pineapple in ur name

Frukostbord: Just curious. How many of you work as programmers?

Nerchio: at least 1

Uljahn: no more than 2**33

Crosility: Does making money while programming == work as programmer?

emh: is it possible to make c++ call an external binary during compile time?

emh: for example base64

emh: or zcat

emh: I found a constexpr base64 function, but calling the binary would be shorter

emh: I guess I could use bash to do it but would be fun to do it from C++

derjack: :thinking:

DomiKo: during compile time???

Default avatar.png ThomasGottschalk: Switzerland

derjack: and why would he want to compress anything

derjack: :smirk:


DaNinja: difficult one, is that for getting a job at Google?

Default avatar.png Phlipside: In C# how can I log notes to the console that aren't taken as part of the answer

Default avatar.png Phlipside: Ah never mind I found it

Quick_Kick: Console.Error.WriteLine();

Default avatar.png Phlipside: Thanks Quick_Kick :)

Default avatar.png LuaAdventurer: how do i change my input\

Default avatar.png LuaAdventurer: lua language

5DN1L: how do i change your question\

5DN1L: English

Crosility: Drop down menu at top of code block.

Crosility: It's alphabetical, and scrolls

5DN1L: wow you actually understand what the question is? i'm impressed

Crosility: Only assuming. :joy:

5DN1L: right :joy:

5DN1L: LuaAdventurer, hope that answers your question

derjack: and what language?

5DN1L: let's ask Automaton2000 what language

Automaton2000: well it's a good one

derjack: D?

5DN1L: D for derjack

Ayza: does it matter if you can beat most players or not as long as you can beat the boss?

5DN1L: it's all about getting your trueskill score higher than the boss's

Ayza: I see, hopes back up

wlesavo: Ayza well you have to get games against boss, and if you lose to everyone else you wont get any

Ayza: I am losing to some players but testing my code, it wins against the boss 90% of the time

Ayza: so I guess it's fine

Uljahn: losing to bottom league players is very harmful for your score

5DN1L: but if you keep losing to other players, your trueskill score won't be high

5DN1L: Ayza check out what trueskill score system is

wlesavo: yeah, i generaly start climbing by fixing those losses against lower half of ladder, as Uljahn said

Ayza: alright thanks

5DN1L: Ayza

Ayza: thanks couldn't find a clear one

5DN1L: np :)

PatrickMcGinnisII: looks like alot of people CP just got kicked in the nutz

eulerscheZahl: participant count was much lower. while the winner gets the same CP, the exploential function drops faster to 0. 10th here is worth less than 10th or even 30th last time

struct: 1000 points difference between 10th and 3th

eulerscheZahl: wow. i didn't do the math but didn't expend it to be that significant

struct: (10000)**((1763-10+1)/1763)-(10000)**((1763-30+1)/1763) = 946.54781786959095688007

jacek: any significant difference between g*ld and legend?

eulerscheZahl: but no excuses: i failed the last 2 contests and dropped in the overall contest leaderboard :(

struct: jacek yeah legend gives extra few ranks if you make it there on last day

eulerscheZahl: depends: top gold vs bottom legend? not significant top gold vs mid legend: there is a difference

eulerscheZahl: aCat right into mid legend after contest ended

eulerscheZahl: but not everyone got pushed. siman was really close a few times but didn't make it in the end

PatrickMcGinnisII: I don't like that the CP is dropped from previous contest. So would I have been off NOT entering Event?

eulerscheZahl: he already stopped on wednesday when topcoder started

Astrobytes: it wasn't an 'official' contest as such sooo

eulerscheZahl: official enough to count for contest leaderboard

eulerscheZahl: wrong, PatrickMcGinnisII

eulerscheZahl: the factor of older contest always declines. regardless of whether you play or not

Astrobytes: Fair point. Then they would have to make a different formula to account for smaller participation count to make it balance

struct: yeah

eulerscheZahl: pending on your rank in this and the previous it will either not count top your best 3 (as if you never played) or increase the score

eulerscheZahl: ergo: you can't make it worse by playing

struct: I dont think the problem is the points here

struct: is the points you lose on the others

struct: the decay

Crosility: Everything dies. Even your points *lol*

struct: But if there wasnt a decay, players would never catch older players

PatrickMcGinnisII: Each next most recent contest is worth 5% less ... that adds up

Astrobytes: A moot point, as always.

eulerscheZahl: they have an exponential decay regarding your rank for scores. i think that's fair

struct: I think 10k is fair because the contests are still hard even if there are fewer players

struct: The top players were still there

Astrobytes: I'm just grateful we had another one

darkhorse64: you must be within the 5% to score (no pun intended)

eulerscheZahl: we can argue that 10th out of 1000 is harder than 100th out of 10000. because some top players always compete and the occasional participants are less strong on average

eulerscheZahl: recurse once proposed the kaggle formula for the leaderboard and even computed some numbers with it. looked pretty fair to me

eulerscheZahl: still rewarding top ranks in older contests a bit but also giving new players a chance to climb fast

Astrobytes: I remember that, but they went with the other one instead

eulerscheZahl: with more contests, player count will probably decrease further. making the decay for older contests even more severe

Astrobytes: Stuck between a rock and a hard place

PatrickMcGinnisII: to maintain your cp you would have to rank higher than your average by a hair to maintain it. When participation is low the burden is higher.

eulerscheZahl: at least i don't intend to participate when they temporarily promote some board game and call it a contest

struct: wdym player count will decrease with more contests?

PatrickMcGinnisII: i get encouraging new participants

Astrobytes: If they increase contest count with new ones like this I'm all in

eulerscheZahl: imagine you have another event in 1 or 2 months. but not a new game

eulerscheZahl: this time we had 1700 players, which was pretty cool

struct: Well this one felt rushed

eulerscheZahl: but don't expect the same amount for a connect4 contest

eulerscheZahl: i might be wrong, just my feeling

struct: ofc not, and I hope it doesnt happen

struct: it will just be booked like othello is

Astrobytes: lol, right

eulerscheZahl: replace connect4 by any existing community game

derjack: onitama :heart:

Westicles: no chance, connect4 isn't french

darkhorse64: a fresh board game would be more interesting ataxx

darkhorse64: for instance

darkhorse64: it rules out books

Astrobytes: lol, I like how you shoehorned ataxx in there darkhorse64

darkhorse64: :smiling_imp:

struct: still not close to enough depth

derjack: :notebook: :soccer:

Westicles: 8/9 events french, 1 german

eulerscheZahl: the german must me mine then

derjack: so what are french community games

eulerscheZahl: penguins

derjack: dots and boxes!

Astrobytes: the upcoming 6 nimmt

darkhorse64: I already started working on it

eulerscheZahl: 6 nimmt?

darkhorse64: there are new search algos to try out

eulerscheZahl: i'm slightly disappointed that no one managed to crack RNG :(

PatrickMcGinnisII: I guess we can regain cp when/if it hits multi?

derjack: does it have complicated rules?

eulerscheZahl: for 6 nimmt the random impact will be massive

Astrobytes: no I wasn't suggesting it as a contest

Astrobytes: someone asked for French board games, I assumed board games made by French people

derjack: Sebastien wrote in pm that he'd use SecureRandom

eulerscheZahl: too late, not it's in the draw pot

darkhorse64: it will be very hard to reach legend in Green Circle, much more than spider attack. Farewell CPs

eulerscheZahl: i mean it will be hard to play as a coder. we already struggled with random here

eulerscheZahl: you can do it darkhorse64, i have faith in you

struct: darkhorse64 all I changed from 60 to top 3

Astrobytes: ah, yeah, but it encourages different thinking

struct: was pruning moves

struct: and make the opening better

eulerscheZahl: i just hardcoded the opening moves

Astrobytes: For instance, the success with some clevery modified MCTS-style algos in Green Circle was nice

eulerscheZahl: smits gave me his code. i think that's the main point why i ranked above him

Astrobytes: the opening?

eulerscheZahl: yes

Astrobytes: He didn't hardcode the opening at all? I was under the impression he did, at least at some point

eulerscheZahl: can't copy to chat, pastebin broken


eulerscheZahl: he had an outcommented call to Heuristic()

eulerscheZahl: i hardcoded a few moves at least. significant boost in ranking

darkhorse64: In my bot, I did not care enough of the opponent when releasing apps

Astrobytes: yeah I knew about yours but smits, not like him not to find something simple like that

darkhorse64: I can't believe he did not book the opening

Astrobytes: In my bot, I failed :rofl:

eulerscheZahl: void NormalTurn() { //if (Heuristics()) // return;

eulerscheZahl: leaking smits code

Astrobytes: I don't think he's be concerned about that particular 'leak' :D

Astrobytes: *he'd

Astrobytes: euler, did you see new yare update?

eulerscheZahl: i saw the announcement

Astrobytes: yeah I didn't check the details yet

eulerscheZahl: but didn't look into it yet apart from a quick check

derjack: yare yare?

Dapps: i was going to check it out, but deciding if i spend more time on that or try green circle when it becomes a multi

darkhorse64: I have looked at bowowow Twitter. Apparently, he used ISMCTS, that's more interesting to try than tweaking magic numbers

eulerscheZahl: you can code modules now. which makes it easier to code your own UI around the game for manual controls

Astrobytes: darkhorse64: yes, did you see his PM?


Astrobytes: he also did something in the CG thread

darkhorse64: No thanks. An algorithm to see through the fog

darkhorse64: yummy

Astrobytes: and Duck seems to have some hybrid of that and EPT

Dapps: re: yare i'm not so interested in manually controlling though. would prefer fully-automated

eulerscheZahl: i accept that yare is a different concept from CG and might even go the hybrid way

Astrobytes: same Dapps, though that guy last time who was playing manually was pretty damn good

struct: what is yare?

Dapps: yeah i think winner was fully manual

eulerscheZahl: the macro game is pretty heuristic based

eulerscheZahl: struct

Astrobytes: And his setup was really nice

struct: is it down?

Astrobytes: how he managed to play like that is beyond me

Dapps: lol

eulerscheZahl: can be painful to code for some cases. and in the last contest i had some bugs that were only triggered in contest games and not the few dummy bots to play against

Dapps: yea looks down. DDOS lol

Dapps: from the few of us checking it out

eulerscheZahl: manual controls for macro and automation of micro (attacking a specific target among several options, jumping for fast reaction)


eulerscheZahl: yare gameplay (version 1)

derjack: 1 ethereum?

eulerscheZahl: v2 will change some mechanics

Dapps: yep

eulerscheZahl: back then 1 ETH was worth more

eulerscheZahl: should have sold

Dapps: jokes on you. i didn't win so didn't lose anything

eulerscheZahl: :chart_with_downwards_trend:

Astrobytes: you didn't sell or spend that? wow

Astrobytes: for a maths guy that was an oversight :P

eulerscheZahl: at first it was rising in value

eulerscheZahl: i still have about 0.1BTC that i won at hackerrank

Astrobytes: but it's exactly the same as stock market shares

eulerscheZahl: was $75

struct: it only dropped 66% not bad

eulerscheZahl: jeez, BTC under 20k euros

eulerscheZahl: that's painful to watch

Astrobytes: you could have bought yourself a fake identity with the ETH and had double the chance to win this year :P

eulerscheZahl: i would need 2 bots to make it less obvious

eulerscheZahl: and there's a possibility that i can fight myself

Dapps: put in a backdoor to detect that matchup

eulerscheZahl: there's also an andergee on yare btw

Astrobytes: still a higher chance, and you vs you in the finals would be easy to sabotage

eulerscheZahl: he was top10 in halite

Astrobytes: interesting

Dapps: did you guys check out kore on kaggle?

Dapps: couldn't get myself interested in it

eulerscheZahl: quick look

eulerscheZahl: it's just so much stuff going on, you can't play it all

Astrobytes: I had a brief look yesterday, looked halite-ish

eulerscheZahl: coder one is in 2 months

Dapps: find kaggle graphics so bad though.. actually takes away from gameplay

eulerscheZahl: topcoder regionals in early august (i think everyone can enter here)

Astrobytes: I dislike their whole site tbh

Astrobytes: and topcoders :D

eulerscheZahl: you don't find anything without a bookmark

Dapps: don't like the entire kaggle matchmaking system with "ghosts"

eulerscheZahl: i never played kaggle because it always lasts so long

eulerscheZahl: and i have a serious addiction problem if i get into it

Astrobytes: Still, I guess with fewer CG contests we have to bite a few bullets and embrace some differences

eulerscheZahl: topcoder it is. platform is a pain but the optim tasks are in the range from good to great

struct: anything about a new contest has been mentioned?

eulerscheZahl: CG contest?

struct: yeah

eulerscheZahl: nah

Astrobytes: was short notice last time, I would never have seen it if I didn't happen to log in just after 5D posting the link

eulerscheZahl: i found out about it because astro told me

Astrobytes: :)

Default avatar.png Hakb: hi, is there any way to get the time and memory consumption and on training puzzles?

struct: well for memory you should be tracking it yourself

struct: you have 768MB

struct: for the time you can also track it

Astrobytes: You won't be able to track the execution time/mem consumption for the validators but the testcases should give you an idea

Crosility: You are the 3 names I see the most here in chat. struct, eulerscheZahl, and Astrobytes.

Astrobytes: not always ;) I take extended breaks from here these days

eulerscheZahl: is see eulerscheZahl quite often too. acutally he's always online when i'm here

Astrobytes: :D

Crosility: Aww, a funny one :]

eulerscheZahl: if astro laughs, it counts

Astrobytes: Just watch out for that undercover one

Crosility: Well, it's nice, honestly. Seeing the same people. It feels like a community.

Astrobytes: hah!

Astrobytes: Crosility: yeah, the community was always the backbone of this place

Default avatar.png Hakb: ok ty astrobytes

Astrobytes: contest-time you still see a lot of familiar names, not as many nowadays though sadly

eulerscheZahl: do you ask for a particular reason like failing a testcase Hakb?

Crosility: What would cause more decent-like minded people to flock here? I wonder?

Astrobytes: More contests, end-of. As it was previously. The turnout for official contests is huge

struct: Maybe a contest this year is still possible

struct: who knows

Astrobytes: But as with most things in life, things do indeed sadly change.

Astrobytes: I have a feeling they will do a proper Fall contest struct

Crosility: Was the event that just ended, not considered a contest?

Dapps: i wish i had found CG earlier. only joined last year. but saw previous years multiple contests a year

Default avatar.png putibuzu: how many contests were there previously?

eulerscheZahl: about 5 per year

Default avatar.png putibuzu: wow

Astrobytes: 2018 was the record year right? 7 or 8 contests?

Astrobytes: or 6 or 7

Dapps: 8?!

eulerscheZahl: you can't count locam twice


Astrobytes: I wasn't

eulerscheZahl: and pikatcha can be argued about

struct: page takes a while to load

Astrobytes: 6, plus there were a few semi-privates that we gatecrashed

struct: also fall challenge 21 is not a thing

struct: :p

Astrobytes: That was the Fail Challenge 21

struct: Its past

eulerscheZahl: the list grew since i opened it last time

Astrobytes: but I'll be really happy if there is a proper one this year, and hopefully another 1+ community-style like the last one

IvesL: what is a pro account in escape?

Astrobytes: oh yeah, a few new ones

struct: accounts from CG work I think

Default avatar.png putibuzu: yeah a fall contest would be really nice :)

eulerscheZahl: someone (you?) told me there might be another community contest around fall

Astrobytes: no, that was this one I was talking about, T mentioned it prior to Spring or just after

eulerscheZahl: and i expect an official contest in autumn (last time it was in November). we just don't know if it will be a bot contest

eulerscheZahl: but nothing official, just some educated guess from my side

Astrobytes: :fingers_crossed:

struct: shirt or delete

Astrobytes: :D

Astrobytes: Incorrigible you are struct

Crosility: O.o, unable to be improved?

Astrobytes: No, he never changes: "x or delete" is struct's personal motto/meme

Crosility: Ah.

eulerscheZahl: there is also "no sleep till legend". but that's another user

Astrobytes: ahh the world of CG memes

Astrobytes: Speaking of CG memes, ceg gave up early this contest

eulerscheZahl: he was playing?

eulerscheZahl: regarding memes

Astrobytes: He streamed

darkhorse64: He could not pass the bot without reading the statement

Astrobytes: I think he remained in Wood

Astrobytes: hahaha forgot about that one euler

eulerscheZahl: jacek didn't read the statement either

Astrobytes: :D

Astrobytes: I admit I was mildly surprised that nobody showed up at the last minute

Default avatar.png GNye22: Can you private message another coder on the site that's not in this chat?

Default avatar.png GNye22: I did a Clash of Code with him and looked at his code and was wondering what the one line did

Crosility: Go to their profile. Click their name.

Default avatar.png GNye22: I'm on his profile

Crosility: Message them-not sure if there's a seperate inbox, but it opens up a tab here.

struct: they need to be following you

Default avatar.png GNye22: All i see is a follow button

struct: and you need to follow them too

Default avatar.png GNye22: ohhhhhh well dang

Default avatar.png GNye22: well then would anyone know what this does?

Astrobytes: Otherwise you can use the forum

Crosility: You could try contacting them on discord.

Default avatar.png GNye22:

struct: or you can press the person button on chat

Astrobytes: ^ or discord yes

struct: when you join in a clash with them

Default avatar.png GNye22: It was a program that converts characters to their ascii values and sums them if the characters uppercase

struct: and then click on their name

Astrobytes: auto pastebins are broken no?

struct: GNye22 golf?

Default avatar.png GNye22: but I want to know what the !!std::isupper(c))*c; line does

Default avatar.png Phlipside: With Mod Pod racing Test In Arena isn't enough for me to go against the boss even though I'm consistently beating it in Play My Code mode... how do I get it to attempt to rank me up?

Default avatar.png GNye22: no struct, just a flash clash

Default avatar.png GNye22: O

Default avatar.png GNye22: I've never seen the !! operator

Default avatar.png GNye22: And when I google it nothing appears

struct: p'^A-Z',).sum

Astrobytes: Beat the rest of the league Phlipside

Default avatar.png Phlipside: Do you mean I have to rank #1?

Astrobytes: Look at who you lose against the most, and why, try to fix that and you should move up the league and get more games against the boss

Astrobytes: Yes

Default avatar.png GNye22:

Astrobytes: You must have more points than the boss

Default avatar.png GNye22: int sum = 0;

   char c;

Astrobytes: At the end of the submission time

Default avatar.png Phlipside: Thank you Astrobytes :)

Astrobytes: np

Default avatar.png GNye22: does anyone know what that (!!std::isupper(c))*c does?

Default avatar.png Phlipside: how do I see the Boss' number of points compared to mine?

eulerscheZahl: std::isupper is 1 for upper case, 0 otherwise

eulerscheZahl: so 0 * c = 0 1*c = 1

eulerscheZahl: c is the ASCII value of the character

Default avatar.png GNye22: oohhhhh ok

Default avatar.png GNye22: so then whats with the double negation?

eulerscheZahl: this it add the ASCII of all non-uppercase chars

eulerscheZahl: oh, double

struct: shortest I can think of p`dd`.tr('^A-Z',).sum

eulerscheZahl: bad eyes


Default avatar.png GNye22: that's the part that confuses me, couldn't he have just put std::isupper(c)*c?

Astrobytes: Phlipside: Hit the leaderboard button on the left

timbersson: in js you use it to force a value to be boolean, but that is c, right?

eulerscheZahl: just looking it up. might be that it just returns any non-0 number


Astrobytes: C++

Default avatar.png GNye22: c++

Nerchio: c++

eulerscheZahl: A value different from zero (i.e., true) if indeed c is an uppercase alphabetic letter.

eulerscheZahl: you aren't guaranteed to get a 1 for upper. might be a 7 or a -432432

Crosility: Okay, okay.. okay. C++. Sorry, I think the answer they give still applies though.

Astrobytes: double negated then multiplied by the ascii value?

Astrobytes: sorry, just reading it

eulerscheZahl: negate: 0 => 1, anything else => 0

eulerscheZahl: double negate: 0 => 0, anything else => 1

Astrobytes: I would never have worked that out :smirk:


Crosility: That's C++ explanation

eulerscheZahl: sarcasm Astrobytes?

Astrobytes: Naturally

Default avatar.png GNye22: Ahhhhh ok that makes sense now

Default avatar.png GNye22: very clever

Crosility: But, both links said the exact same thing.

Astrobytes: ugly though

Default avatar.png GNye22: I will definitely use that from now on haha

derjack: they use c++ for shortest?

eulerscheZahl: golfing is ugly

Default avatar.png GNye22: No it was a fast clash

eulerscheZahl: or wasteful to water, depending on the type of golf

derjack: hmm what would be the new featured puzzle

eulerscheZahl: insert link to lastweektonight from this week

Astrobytes: Fastest also produces ugly code

Default avatar.png GNye22: but yeah golfing is ugly, but its a good skill to have I think. I watch some of these pythoners and they populate a map in a single freakin line and I'm like whaaaaaaatttt

Default avatar.png GNye22: I agree, but its a good exercise to see what libraries you know, just not good practice for writing code that is going to be updated and viewed by others

eulerscheZahl: don't code like that in production

Nerchio: meh kinda useless skill to me

Astrobytes: More of a hobby-thing

eulerscheZahl: when you have to think about what it's doing and then say: "hm, clever", you probably shouldn't do it

Astrobytes: The only time golfing everything is acceptable in production is writing perl

Default avatar.png GNye22: Yeah I'm aware, I just like learning new little tricks like that cuz a lot of them take advantage of small rules in the language that you otherwise would be aware of

Astrobytes: <that was a joke btw>

Astrobytes: (I'm here all week)

Crosility: While I'm over here doing explicitly long variable names.

Crosility: In very defined chunks of code.

Crosility: To solve puzzles.

struct: thats fine

Crosility: char blunderdirection = 'S'; and map[height][length].. instead of m[y][x]

eulerscheZahl: grid[x,y] the only acceptable order of dimensions

Crosility: Like struct's example. Of shortest code. .. I can't see why people do that to themselves.

eulerscheZahl: there's even a language just for golfing: golfscript

struct: [y][x] for me

Crosility: Lol, Euler, if only the site didn't continuously give me strings at a time. And work top to bottom. I would do that. But it's too much work to make map[][y] = "this string it gave me"

struct: or uint64

Crosility: So, I've opted to just apply it in the logic flow the site gives to me. :P

Crosility: But yes, x, y for everything else.

Crosility: I like using 2d arrays too much for these map puzzles. I don't wanna store an array of strings. I rather be able to call the coordinates directly.

Astrobytes: map[] [solved]

Astrobytes: map[MAX_SIZE*MAX_SIZE] that is

Astrobytes: or uint64 if it fits

Crosility: Oh, well, yes. YOU CAN define it that way. BUT, it's not easy-to-read and follow way.

eulerscheZahl: let's make it a dictionary. can JS use an object like {x;1, y:3} as key?

Crosility: When you're calling grid spacing.

eulerscheZahl: then it's independent of the order

Crosility: Haha, JS nice modern dictionary benefits.

Astrobytes: if you wrap things up nicely in a struct or class it's very easy to read when you're using it

Default avatar.png Phlipside: Thanks for the advice Astrobytes, just ranked up in the league with a > 95% win rate

Astrobytes: Phlipside: Nice! :tada: onwards and upwards

Crosility: Lol, technically.. it's an array of y,x coordinate structs. With data relevant to the coordinate.


Crosility: Gah, I need to learn the character length here.

Astrobytes: it's based on line breaks iirc

eulerscheZahl: arrow up to recover your last message

eulerscheZahl: 4 lines are the max

Crosility: ypedef struct {

   char symbol;
   char times_touched;

} MAPS; MAPS map[height][length];

struct: has anyone reported that pastebins are broken?

Astrobytes: jacek did ages ago

Crosility: Asks the moderator. :P

Astrobytes: lol

eulerscheZahl: and did someone react with :eyes: ?

Astrobytes: dunno, don't think so, not on discord rn to check

Crosility: So, Astrobytes, in C, curious, what would you do, to be able to easily call a cell of Y,X (or X, Y) if not in a 2d Array like so? Just curious.

Nerchio: don't remind them to remove the chat :cold_sweat:

eulerscheZahl: maybe they will just forget it?

Astrobytes: in C I would probably use your way unless 1D indexing helped

struct: just make a forum post asking to not remove it

struct: eas

struct: easy*

Astrobytes: *helped with speed/efficiency

Crosility: 1D indexing like you proposed, only works if you're willing to deal with ugly syntax. :P

Astrobytes: in C that's what macros are for :P

struct: then ask people in chat to brigade the post

Crosility: Haha, yup. Man, haven't used a macro in forever.

Crosility: Need to try implementing them more.

Crosility: (Other than library pre-made macros)

Astrobytes: it's easier to hide ugliness away in C++ than it is in C tbh

Astrobytes: For CG at least

Astrobytes: re. the chat, someone made a nice post in the thread on the forum


Astrobytes: Razovsk y post. Not like it hasn't been suggested before though

struct: yeah probably wont make a difference

struct: but he is right, the discord also has problems

eulerscheZahl: i left because the phishing links annoyed me

Astrobytes: Yes. The spam issue makes me silence the whole thing

Crosility: I fully turn off notifications/alerts to every discord channel I join. Only if I'm tagged directly do I go to the chat, or if I'm curious.

Crosility: Most servers are just spam.

Astrobytes: I keep it on for the announcements/important channel or I leave the server

struct: During the contest I banned 1 person in total

eulerscheZahl: same. when i join a server i mute everything but the annoucnement channel and maybe 1 or 2 others

struct: The chat had problems during a month or so

Astrobytes: struct yeah the chat during the contest was unusually spam/troll free, other than us all trolling each other

Astrobytes: Was very pleasant

struct: For me shutting it down its mistake

eulerscheZahl: topcoder discord was quite spammy like admins writing "@everyone go to typeracer and join us"

eulerscheZahl: at least they made the typeracer thing a group on their own now

Astrobytes: that @everyone tag is so annoying. Servers that limit their use of it are the better ones

eulerscheZahl: but it was the admins pinging everyone for typeracer

struct: lol

Default avatar.png Nikanameu: do featured puzzle give any bonus rewards

struct: no

Astrobytes: Yeah, that's irresponsible admin'ing imo

Astrobytes: @everyone is like the nuclear option of notification

eulerscheZahl: it's perfectly fine for "we just released yare2 after almost a year"

Astrobytes: Yes exactly.

Astrobytes: Not to be abused for spamming stuff

struct: hi @everyone

Astrobytes: lol

Astrobytes: I'm amazed TC didn't lose most of their discord doing what you described euler

eulerscheZahl: i left

eulerscheZahl: but rejoined for TCO info

struct: Thats when you know it has gone downhill

eulerscheZahl: they still have some annoying practices. write !work to gain useless internet points

eulerscheZahl: for some channels only. so someone writes in the wrong channel. bot: "don't do that here" and instantly someone else tries the same nonsense

Astrobytes: Yes, I was on there for a short time iirc

struct: thats why I dont even go on discord

Astrobytes: You see that stuff in quite a few servers nowadays, exceptionally annoying

Crosility: If you ever wanna see the most degenerative behavior. Join a crypto-game server.

Astrobytes: No. Thank. You :D

Crosility: Lmao.

Astrobytes: These people are rabid.

Astrobytes: alrighty, afk a couple hours, be back later on at some point

eulerscheZahl: there's so much weird stuff on the internet. i'll never understand asmr

Crosility: ... I need to back out of that discussion.

Crosility: Twitch has fallen so far

jacek: hm?

Razovsky: eulerscheZahl if i find a asmrdude or girl i swear ill rip their ears off

Razovsky: this triggers me so hard, exactly the contrary of what it's supposed to do i guess XD

Crosility: Avoid what'sherface-IWearABikiniAllDayInAKiddyPool on twitch then.

Crosility: Asmortanthoho or whatever.

Razovsky: i never go on twitch except for a few entertaining gamers i know

Razovsky: strangely they are all males, i never found a female streamer which wasnt selling herself with it

Razovsky: mst exist, anyway

Razovsky: must*

Crosility: I know a few. But, the play niche content usually.


Crosility: Also usually the huge nerds, the real nerds.

Crosility: Not the "I want people to look at me"

Default avatar.png Nikanameu: your channel?

Crosility: Nah, that's not mine.

jacek: Razovsky misophonia much?

Razovsky: nah man

Razovsky: im really fond of music, i play a lot

Razovsky: and within several groups

eulerscheZahl: Razovsky 05:58ᴾᴹ eulerscheZahl if i find a asmrdude or girl i swear ill rip their ears off

you would do that for me? thank you :)

Razovsky: but ASMR is a mystery to me, i stand with eulerscheZahl on that

PatrickMcGinnisII: I'm half deaf, When i put on my Aeropex and can actually hear what pepl r sayin' ... I think i understand ASMR now. But my urge is to pick up a machete.

eulerscheZahl: oh, i didn't know. smits also has some problems hearing. but he can lip-read is students and catches them saying things smits is't supposed to hear

eulerscheZahl: *his

Astrobytes: ASMR is for people who never had someone whisper aggressively in their ears as a child or something. It's an absolute mystery.

PatrickMcGinnisII: me 2, CoV-19 with all the masks was a MF 4 me, I didn't have headphones then. Waitresses would yell at me, umm that didn't help.

Astrobytes: that sucks Patrick

Default avatar.png Nikanameu: was the contest fun

PatrickMcGinnisII: they think I didn't her them at all, it just takes me longer to interpret what they said so they get impatient and start yelling... I don't know what ASMR is, but I kinda get in now

Astrobytes: As if provision for those hard of hearing isn't bad enough as it is

PatrickMcGinnisII: I'm just lacking in certain frequencies, so louder the 'good tones' feel like attacks on my senses.

PatrickMcGinnisII: sry, TMI

Astrobytes: I have tinnitus in my right ear (mostly) which is my constant companion :|

eulerscheZahl: i have an organ player among my colleagues. he hears significantly worse on certain frequences

eulerscheZahl: you get to make a hearing test among others at my workplace when getting hired. the medic asked him right away if he plays organ

Astrobytes: I will refrain from making any organ-based jokes that only Patrick would laugh at

PatrickMcGinnisII: i wake up to tinn. everyday, no idea why ... but I burnt my eardrums on loud metal after having surgery like 30 years ago. I still love rolling up to the gas station blaring what most people find obnoxious. The pandandlers leave me alone. ;)

Astrobytes: Yeah, a lifetime of hardcore techno, hardcore/punk, metal and DnB has done my ears no favours

PatrickMcGinnisII: I have 3 concerts lined up this year to attend. And Astrobytes can keep his Organs to himself. ;)

Default avatar.png MFogleman: Are they ever going to give clash of code the option to pick your game type? Fastest mode is just a typing contest and reverse is half luck. It seems like a significant number of people just quit as soon as its not code golf

Astrobytes: :D

PatrickMcGinnisII: can u exit a clash w/o losing points?

Astrobytes: The only winning move in clash is not to play.

eulerscheZahl: there seems to be a way of finding out the type beforehand via inspecting the traffic

eulerscheZahl: but you can't actively choose the type

PatrickMcGinnisII: Wargames ^

Astrobytes: ;)

Astrobytes: Did we hear anything back from j4at about that?

eulerscheZahl: i didn't

struct: you only need to check playClash

struct: once you enter the lobby

eulerscheZahl: i don't want to enter the lobby

Astrobytes: ^

Default avatar.png Nikanameu: why so long promotion timer

eulerscheZahl: to force you to take a break

eulerscheZahl: not even kidding, i wish i was

eulerscheZahl: for higher leagues the break becomes longer. 6 hours

Astrobytes: Similar systems should be introduced in all workplaces.

struct: this is why I submit from wood to legend all in one

Astrobytes: 7-day promotion

Astrobytes: (tiny little exaggeration there)

eulerscheZahl: you want to get promoted every 7 days at work?

Astrobytes: No, the second statement was a reply to struct. Though 7-day work promotions would be good too.

eulerscheZahl: could help to counter inflation

Darleanow: Abraham i lost the convo xD

Astrobytes: Abraham?

Darleanow: i was talking to a mate in a clash :)

Astrobytes: ah gotcha :)

struct: you are in class and not trolling world chat?

struct: o.o

struct: Didnt know this was possible

Astrobytes: hahaha

BrunoFelthes: is there any other way to sync an external file without use the chrome extension?

struct: are you talking about CG Sync BrunoFelthes?

BrunoFelthes: yes

struct: You can use CG Local, it also works for firefox

struct: also works for chrome

BrunoFelthes: my company blocks extensions

struct: and you dont need to login on store

struct: ah

struct: well CG local also requires an extension

BrunoFelthes: yeah, i cant install extensions

eulerscheZahl: i never got that: what's wrong with copy-paste to IDE?

struct: you might paste it into chat accidentally

eulerscheZahl: pastebins don't work

Nerchio: too long euler :D

BrunoFelthes: i do not work with one file

eulerscheZahl: me neither. i merge it into one file on build

BrunoFelthes: i work with mult files, and i have a command that merge the files and create a new file

jacek: cat a b c > d [solved]

BrunoFelthes: and open the merged file, copy and paste?

BrunoFelthes: i'm just lazzy

Kellthazar: maybe a command to put the merged result to the clipboard

BrunoFelthes: maybe it will help

eulerscheZahl: that's how my setup looks like

eulerscheZahl: the merged file in the bottom corner doesn't cost much space and is easily accessible for copy

jacek: Book.cs :thinking:

Default avatar.png jediwannabe06: dooky

BrunoFelthes: nice setup

eulerscheZahl: wasn't much of a help to download 500 replays from a top player and hardcode the openings from there

jacek: seems the 'stateless' mcts was a choice of algorithm by top players

Kellthazar: how do you folks work with the replay data? Is any export functionality to do so?


eulerscheZahl: parsing can be a pain sometimes. it's easy to extract stderr for your own bot

eulerscheZahl: but i wanted to scrape replays of other users. luckily the game summary was pretty excessive

jacek: but later

eulerscheZahl: not the prettiest but did the job

Kellthazar: Cool!

Nerchio: oh my god :D

Nerchio: my eyes

eulerscheZahl: i wrote that in an hour or so

Nerchio: my drawing function was 7 loops inside one another couldnt bother doing anything else

eulerscheZahl: wait, what? why? how?

Nerchio: especially when you are tired the simplest option sounds the best, hard to make mistakes

eulerscheZahl: i don't see why you need loops there

Nerchio: you dont need loops

eulerscheZahl: also an important rule: don't code while tired. it will always backfire

Default avatar.png gfhnpkv: my code got delete 2 times already how do i save it?

Nerchio: it was for discard actually, no judging :joy:

struct: you just need to press play my code for it to save

Default avatar.png gfhnpkv: nice thx

eulerscheZahl: int sumDiscarded = i + j + k + l + m + n + o + p + q;

                                           if (sumDiscarded == calcCardDiscard) {

eulerscheZahl: that's one way to do it

eulerscheZahl: not the most efficient but it works

eulerscheZahl: you understood the theme of the contest

Nerchio: i was tired of writing sim for that game so yeah whatever works works

jacek: :scream:

jacek: what people would do just not to read the rules

struct: I just used recursion

eulerscheZahl: i threw one card. then another. causing duplicate states (throw bonus and coding, next throw coding and bonus)

eulerscheZahl: then zobrist hashing to find the duplicate

struct: for that I had "Double throw" on my action gen

struct: and just dif for (i...)for(j=i){actions[size++].throwAction(i,j);...

Nerchio: see euler that's a lot of work, and this ugly code not only I was sure was going to work but also didn't do any duplicates

eulerscheZahl: i wanted to catch a few other potential duplicates as well

StevenV: Hello guys

struct: hi

Kellthazar: Does anyone understand the 64-bit representation of Cards that bowwow posted in his PM?

StevenV: normally we would have a discussion topic on CG after a contest. Do we have it for GreenCircle?

Nerchio: sure


Default avatar.png Nikanameu: another promotion 2 hours much wow

StevenV: how can I find this link @Nerchio?

Nerchio: main page -> community -> forums or in IDE on the left side forums

Nerchio: and then find it in the list somewhere

eulerscheZahl: forum used to be a point on its own in the top bar

struct: Kellthazar its just to fit everything you need in 8 bytes

StevenV: I don't do that for the other contests, but I can still find the post somehow.

StevenV: I just forget how can I do it in the past :?

struct: 4 bits cant store up to 16 different values

struct: when he played review

struct: it would look somethign like this, give me 1 min

eulerscheZahl: search "feedback and strategies" + name of the game

simone.pelloni: ue

eulerscheZahl: often the post mortes are also linked on the problem overview page

struct: discard_pile += 0x200000000ULL;

struct: hand -= 0x1000000ULL;

struct: played_cards += 0x1000000ULL;

StevenV: thank you guys :D

struct: oh but he could do bit.bonus += 2;

struct: with the union

jacek: so people did do bitboards in this game

struct: ofc, I did too

struct: not bitboard

struct: just packed data

struct: Kellthazar maybe what you are looking for is this

Washier: where can I find this card game?

struct: We need to wait for cg to release it

Washier: ah ok

Westicles: new puzzle event tomorrow, could be freecell

jacek: is it french

eulerscheZahl: unlikely

StevenV: I wonder If we have fall challenge 2022 or not

Kellthazar: thanks, struct. I'm not familiar with this kind of representation.


StevenV: wow

eulerscheZahl: ah, bit fields

eulerscheZahl: oh, was linked a few messages above. sorry

wlesavo: oh, val and bowwow shared pms, nice, almost thought they wont

Kellthazar: Oh, I'm reading now that bitfield is not supported in Golang.

jacek: :scream:

eulerscheZahl: both wrote PMs in the past

eulerscheZahl: and usually another one on hatenablog that's more detailed


wlesavo: oh thx

wlesavo: i really liked the random node states aspect

Kellthazar: Japan did pretty well in this contest.

eulerscheZahl: japan is strrong on CG in general

jacek: we need to get more weeb

eulerscheZahl: also on topcoder optim. and on atcoder of course

wlesavo: atcoder is the one cho kudai established?

eulerscheZahl: no idea who founded it

eulerscheZahl: they have algorithmic contests (like codeforces) and an optim once a month

Kellthazar: 145 / 5.000 Resultados de tradução I wish I had known this world of competitive programming when I was younger or that there was this kind of community in my college days.

eulerscheZahl: you have us now

DomiKo: euler atcoder is weird

eulerscheZahl: in what way?

eulerscheZahl: easier to navigate than topcoder

DomiKo: it isn't just a regular site like codeforces.

eulerscheZahl: i never really got into it. what are the differences?

DomiKo: you can do well in competitive programing in general but you won't at atcoder

eulerscheZahl: different tasks?

wlesavo: yeah, just googled it, he did founded atcoder

DomiKo: competitive programing have many hmmmm let's say different styles of tasks

DomiKo: and atcoder style is really hard for most not Japanese programers

eulerscheZahl: i'm doing ok-ish on codejam but i'm a huge failure in some codeforces rounds. so i know what you mean

struct: you can do well at bot programming and very bad on codeforces

eulerscheZahl: and i did really well on some hackerrank rounds

DomiKo: I know many grandmasters from CF that can't do second or even first task at atcoder contest

StevenV: they are very different

eulerscheZahl: like 20 out of 10k

DomiKo: so that's why atcoder is mostly Japanese, and only some really good programmers compete with them

eulerscheZahl: ok, that sounds extremely strange. i never tried their algorithmic rounds

eulerscheZahl: had a look at their schedule, was in the middle of the night

struct: I tried both, I was so bad and both that I just quit

struct: bad at both*

eulerscheZahl: i enjoyed the hackerrank style. then hackerrank quit

eulerscheZahl: now they have occasional contests. for women only. or with $500 for the winner. but you can't keep but have to donate to a charity from a given list

jacek: i identify as woman

eulerscheZahl: with organizations like "black women who code"

jacek: oO

DomiKo: yeah that's true

eulerscheZahl: not even cherry picking. they are all called like that

Default avatar.png Nikanameu: domiko give an example of why it's as hard as you say

DomiKo: I've written only one contest at hackerrank

eulerscheZahl: you were a problem setter? cool

DomiKo: no no

DomiKo: I participated*

eulerscheZahl: oh. less impressive :D

DomiKo: Nikanameu I can't really explain it, they are just so different and most competitive programmers are really used to some types of tasks, and if you give them different ones then won't be that good

Default avatar.png Nikanameu: is there a language barrier problem

DomiKo: not really

eulerscheZahl: i see surprisingly many struggle with interactive problems

eulerscheZahl: here on CG they are fairly common

jacek: i/o stuff?

eulerscheZahl: i think it's the logic of getting extra information during the run

eulerscheZahl: somehow their minds don't work like that. querying for more relevant info

DomiKo: Nikanameu can give you an example of styles. If you gave me a task from Polish competition. I would tell you if that task was from Warsaw, Wroclaw or Krakow. In each site people have a little different style of tasks, and we can mostly easily tell the difference.

Default avatar.png Nikanameu: problem statement?

eulerscheZahl: task

Kellthazar: I didn't know Chokudai. Pretty impressive.

DomiKo: it's not about writing style

DomiKo: it's about task "style"

jacek: you need to watch more anime

struct: if its a portuguese task it will be add a and b.

DomiKo: Portugal have him:

Default avatar.png Nikanameu: Affiliation AtCoder Inc. CEO


struct: imagine a cooperation between cg and atcoder for a contest o.o

jacek: :scream:

Dynamolten.: hello Luca!

jacek: luna?

DomiKo: ehhh after reading some PMs I'm really sad that I didn't have much time :(

jacek: they should have announced it earlier. everyone gave up hope about cg contests

eulerscheZahl: or announce it at the time they did but start it later

eulerscheZahl: less bugs

Westicles: I still have no idea what green IT means

eulerscheZahl: saving energy

eulerscheZahl: by not coding like this

DomiKo: ohhh god

jacek: by training NNs on coal energy

struct: how much time has your NN spent training?

Westicles: oh, so that's why the phones are used, I get it

eulerscheZahl: a concept new to americans?

struct: also does your last NN handle trask prio BONUS for other?

Kellthazar: hahahaha

jacek: it was mostly fiddling with hyperparameters, now i can train the one I had in few hours

jacek: what task prio bonus?

Westicles: you wouldn't call it green here, bad associations with greenpeace

eulerscheZahl: the missing legal action

struct: the one that wasnt given in legal moves

jacek: oh, no

DomiKo: ohh boy

jacek: was it important?

DomiKo: jacek top1 incoming

struct: its the difference between rank 10 and rank 1

jacek: can you share a replay when they use it?

eulerscheZahl: i feel like jacek got top10 without even trying to rank high as a primary objective

Kellthazar: Vim 9.0 released... o.o

jacek: well im happy i reached legend

jacek: refurbished phone would be a bonus. but all i want is refurbished t-shirt

eulerscheZahl: no tshirts this contest

jacek: :(

eulerscheZahl: we should put together and get a tshirt for jacek

Razovsky: im in !

struct: Let me check my collection

Westicles: everypony chip in a dollar

eulerscheZahl: this one looks like he would like it

jacek: :tada:

Razovsky: My God eulerscheZahl, your pastebin ! It's so funny :P

eulerscheZahl: it's from another user who shared it here. but he knows it's bad

eulerscheZahl: and i know he can do better

Razovsky: when even a double loop TImes out on cg

Razovsky: trying this is balsy !

Razovsky: i admire the dedication

struct: this is the closest thing I have to that


eulerscheZahl: i know the game from the 729 alone

struct: ofc this was your idea after all

eulerscheZahl: :D

Westicles: 5D Chests


Westicles: ah, well you got the idea

eulerscheZahl: once there was someone messaging me a code in private. actually being proud about it, while it was horrible

eulerscheZahl: in the terms of defining 4 different variables A,B,C,D for the witch contest instead of an array[4]

eulerscheZahl: i shared it here, but blurred the username for anonymity

eulerscheZahl: then the user shared the same snippet in the post mortem

jacek: 729?

struct: its a game you never played jacek

struct: Maybe a NN could work there idk

eulerscheZahl: 3**6 STC, possible layouts in the top 2 rows

eulerscheZahl: to look up valid moves

struct: before I had 4096 if it includes illegal states

Default avatar.png 20220628: LOL this interface is shit

eulerscheZahl: your feedback too

Default avatar.png 20220628: so u agree cos u attack me

Kellthazar: ?

struct: can't argue with this logic

eulerscheZahl: no. my point is: you say it's shit without giving any reasoning

Default avatar.png 20220628: right then here it is

Default avatar.png 20220628: i say print print print i get nothing

Default avatar.png 20220628: regular code in regular work I get answer answer answer. stonks up

darkhorse64: The sad conclusion of the contest is that the best is to release as early as possible with lots of technical debts :thinking:

Default avatar.png 20220628: here stonks none

struct: I only released starting at turn 5 I think

eulerscheZahl: games could have been a bit longer

Kellthazar: darkhorse64, oh, the irony! XD

eulerscheZahl: with more apps and/or higher costs per app you would have to be more careful

eulerscheZahl: and CI would be even stronger :/

struct: could you start the game with 4 debth?

Default avatar.png 20220628: "¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Nerchio: i think referee blocks that

Nerchio: but dont quote me on that

struct: Yeah I never saw it

darkhorse64: es

darkhorse64: yes

struct: you could?

darkhorse64: sorry, 4 debts or 4 bonus is disallowed by the referee

struct: ah ok

struct: thanks

struct: I guess player 1 would just move to task_prio if it happened

struct: since CI would be useless in that turn

darkhorse64: That said, software delivery IRL is like that

struct: not task, daily sorry

OldJohn: Hi, is there a link of this chat archive ?

Default avatar.png Wishbone: This is an interesting chat to follow. I have absolutely no idea what any of you are talking about, but much of it sounds intriguing ;-)


struct: We are talking about the previous contest Wishbone

OldJohn: Thanks Euler.

OldJohn: (BTW I never thank Euler enough fot beginning the graph theory !)

jacek: oO

eulerscheZahl: :D

eulerscheZahl: the king had to cross all the bridges after all

Default avatar.png Wishbone: Thanks struct, that gives a bit of context at least. Don't know much about it since I only joined yesterday.

Default avatar.png Wishbone: Joined the site, that is.

jacek: its general chat, not only mad pod racing

Default avatar.png Wishbone: Is THIS pod racing? :-D

jacek: no, pod racing is quite old contest ~

eulerscheZahl: one day you will show up and see no chat. then you can find some of us on discord

Kellthazar: Is "Coders Strikes Back" the best contest ever made here?

Default avatar.png Wishbone: Yeah, just joined the Discord. I actually thought this was one of the Discord channels, but that appears not to be the case.

eulerscheZahl: opinions differ on the best game

eulerscheZahl: for me it's hypersonic and code of ice and fire

Nerchio: code of ice and fire was pretty fun

darkhorse64: crystal rush is one of my favorites

eulerscheZahl: i hate fog

darkhorse64: fog is quite light in this game

OldJohn: Othello is my favorite :-)

darkhorse64: for boardgames, yavalath

Kellthazar: The pacman contest was really nice.

OldJohn: My program is like me, now ! Do not know what to play after the opening book.

struct: just book until the end :D

jacek: i dont know how to play othello. i would struggle to get legal moves on real board

OldJohn: I know a line I play as black that I know till the 31-33 end

OldJohn: Only once on Internet White played it correctly.. I suppose it was using a program

jacek: you need to counterbook nyanyan

jacek: you are our only hope

OldJohn: Let see what it plays :-)

OldJohn: With white it plays a draw line... My program does not find the draw after the book but I know it is there. And same as black !

struct: is the game solved?

OldJohn: No, but this line is

struct: not even weakly solved?

struct: oh it isnt

OldJohn: As far as know it is not

Default avatar.png sqrtNOT: I keep getting captchas on clash of code :cry:

Dynamolten.: my friend too!

Default avatar.png boumagik: Hello

Default avatar.png boumagik: anyone ranked 60+ at 2048 (

Darleanow: Hello, what's Euler's website ?

Darleanow: i'm looking for clashes database

5DN1L: it's down at the moment

5DN1L: i guess it'll be up again on 1 July

Darleanow: okay thank you sir !! :)

5DN1L: np :)

Astrobytes: euler's gonna have to start charging for use of that to keep the dynos flowing

OldJohn: Ok, as expected my program plays a losing move out of book ! And Zebra program knows the line well !

Default avatar.png FoxHound1935: Im new to coding, is it good site to learn it?

5DN1L: this is a good site for practising

5DN1L: for new learners,tTry , 'The Coding Train' on youtube, or first levels in

5DN1L: try*

Default avatar.png FoxHound1935: Okey, I will try those. Thank you very much

OldJohn: Correction as black it plays a bad line at move 31

Default avatar.png Wishbone: From what I've seen so far, this is probably not the best place to start if you don't already know SOME programming.

Astrobytes: Oldjohn: not sure there's enough time on CG to manage to find all those draw lines, or indeed enough space to book even some of all possible draw lines discovered so far :)

Astrobytes: *manage to find many of

OldJohn: A good program should be able to play them

jacek: boumagik any question?

Astrobytes: Room to improve then, fix it! as we say here

Astrobytes: :)

Default avatar.png boumagik: jacek I'm looking to improve my score at 2048. I feel like i should be pruning during the beam search (currently not). Any pointer ?

jacek: oh, i just brute force minimax

jacek: what is your score function

jacek: i have the snake-like

Default avatar.png boumagik: I'm on a beam search algo, so it's going through the tree of possibilities while selecting a beam of best states at each iteration

Uljahn: i use beamsearch with 3 actions and remove duplicate states from the beam, also snake-shaped score

Astrobytes: but how are you evaluating the states boumagik? Score only or snake?

Default avatar.png boumagik: score only, I don't even know what you mean by snake

Default avatar.png boumagik: I suppose this is the pointer I'm looking for

Astrobytes: snake is like an optimum values version of the grid. So there is a score for each line in the 'snake'


Astrobytes: thank you jacek, much easier to visualise with a visual :)

Default avatar.png boumagik: thanks for the visual

Default avatar.png Wishbone: Small victory: just did Death First Search - Episode 1. It ran (correctly even) on the first try :-D It's probably horribly inefficient but it works, and it's a far cry from the sort of things I deal with in my work.

Default avatar.png boumagik: how did you end up figuring out the snake ?

Astrobytes: nice one Wishbone :)

jacek: :tada:

jacek: have you played 2048 yourself? this is something what people come up with

jacek: to get highest value in the corner

darkhorse64: if you play the game, you find out

Astrobytes: most people have their own version but it follows roughly the same pattern

Default avatar.png Wishbone: I haven't worked with graphs since... Uhm, that would be 2001, I think.

Default avatar.png Wishbone: And that wasn't even work, that was education.

Default avatar.png boumagik: thanks all

Default avatar.png boumagik: did the snake make for a big improvement once you implemented it ?

jacek: for me it was much better than score only

Astrobytes: before I came to CG my graph theory was limited to simple trees only Wishbone :)

Default avatar.png Wishbone: Astrobytes: Yeah, I came here looking for just a few fun coding challenges, but I'm actually also learning stuff. It's great :-)

Astrobytes: Yeah, I've learned a ton on here that I wouldn't have otherwise, CS-wise or otherwise mathematical

Default avatar.png Wishbone:

Default avatar.png Wishbone: Huh, TIL, if you type too long a message in the chat, it goes to pastebin automatically.

Default avatar.png Wishbone: Or, well, it makes a pastebin link which doesn't work...

Astrobytes: It normally works but been broken for a few weeks or so

Uljahn: at least the chat still does

Astrobytes: So true Uljahn

Default avatar.png Wishbone: Short sentences then :-/

Astrobytes: No, I think it works on line breaks?

Uljahn: 4 or more newlines i guess

Default avatar.png Wishbone: tl;dr; I think it's interesting to see other people's solutions after you've solved a puzzle.

Astrobytes: For sure.

Lisa-Has-Ideas: I only have a day left.. I need some Approvals.... anyone, anyone ???


Astrobytes: Lisa-Has-Ideas: it's quite normal for the approval to take longer, you can republish as soon as it expires

Astrobytes: and FWIW it looks clashable

Astrobytes: don't see why people forced it into easy puzzles

Astrobytes: anyway, gn all

BugKiller_328: hi, guys. I have a question about minimax

struct: gn

struct: yes BugKiller_328?

BugKiller_328: when I make the connect4 AI with minimax

BugKiller_328: in the early stage, we have so many possibilities, so can't go deep

BugKiller_328: but later, board is filled, I think minimax can go more depth

BugKiller_328: how can I decide the depth in this kind of situation?

BugKiller_328: I hope my question make sense to understand.

struct: like when to start using minimax?

struct: or the depth you want to search?

BugKiller_328: yes.

BugKiller_328: if board is almost empty I think we can't go too much depth

BugKiller_328: but later, (game goes by), I can go more depth

BugKiller_328: Am I right?

struct: yeah end games should be fsater

struct: faster*

struct: but your idea is to switch between to searches?

struct: one for early and one for late?

BugKiller_328: yes. my idea is to use different depth for minimax

struct: ah look iterative deepening

struct: its probably what you are looking for

struct: you will search while you have time with it

BugKiller_328: Thank you for guiding me this keyword. :)

BugKiller_328: I'll try to learn about it. :) Thanks

struct: np

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: hey, for some reason codingame thinks I speak french (half of my country speaks it, the other half, including me speaks dutch). any idea how to get rid of the french chat?

Default avatar.png Adam9910: get rid of all the french

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: bit too much effort. was looking for something I could accomplish tomorrow

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: without nukes

struct: Not sure you can close it

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: there's no cross

struct: It joins you based on your country flag

Default avatar.png Adam9910: when you have open any game you have settings in the left panel

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: I tried to look in the settings some time ago, didn't find anything useful yet

Default avatar.png Adam9910: i see language there

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: it lets me switch between english and french in that panel lmao

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: thanks for the suggestions though

Default avatar.png boumagik: thanks jacek Uljahn and others, I'm pulling 20m+ on 2048 now. Need to fix timeout on couple of games

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: whoa

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: gj

struct: nice

Bob_Rocks: What are the maximum values for the amount of cyborgs at a factory on turn one of Ghost In the Cell/Cyborg Uprising

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: at least 0

Bob_Rocks: the maximum values

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: yeah sorry I was just trolling

Bob_Rocks: very funny

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: I just joined cyborg uprising to go have a look. for the player, it's 15-30.

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: I assume it must be the same for other players too, because that's only fair

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: so max would be 30?

Bob_Rocks: But the minimum is 0 I believe

Bob_Rocks: Oh I guess I should've specifiede

Bob_Rocks: I meant specifically any factory

Bob_Rocks: but I guess the max would be 30 for any factory?

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: for neutral ones I see 0 3 and 13

Bob_Rocks: I thought I saw 28 once

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: I can reroll a bit

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: I guess the max wouldn't be very useful to know no? it's the neutrals with the minimum you need to take first

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: idk

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: but 30 would probably be a good guess

Bob_Rocks: okay

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: thanks for showing me this bot problem btw, I like this one

Bob_Rocks: lol you're welcome I guess

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: I played so many flash games like this

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: awesome

Bob_Rocks: well I absolutely suck at it

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: as long as the bot wins it's fine lol

Bob_Rocks: I'm bad at the game and my bot is also bad at the game lol

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: XD

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: did you read jaceks report on the last contest?

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: he made a neural network

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: never knew the rules himself

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: and the bot got pretty high

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: maybe won. I forgot

Bob_Rocks: I have not read it

Bob_Rocks: but personally I don't really want to win

Bob_Rocks: I just wanna learn something cause I suck at programming these things

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: fair enough :)

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: what language are you ussing?

Bob_Rocks: I'm using Python

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: solid choice

Bob_Rocks: I've recently been trying to learn some game and control theory to get a good algorithm with finite state machines or with some function that's generated at the start of the game and then matched

Bob_Rocks: I was also planning on getting some of my friends to work on this too but they only know Lua and I'm not programming this bot in lua

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: yeah, I wouldn't like to do it in lua either

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: I'm gonna be fair, I know some of those words, and seems like it'd be pretty hard to do something like that

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: like, I wouldn't know what a good cost function would be for something like this

Bob_Rocks: Me neither but there algorithms that show you candidates for cost functions

Bob_Rocks: its like taking dynamics and then plugging it into an inverse lagrangian

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: okay, that's too much physics :)

Bob_Rocks: I can't think of a better way to do it besides like minmax or some other changing function method in some way Like the function is a piecewise where if you enter certain states in the game it enters a possibly discontinuous state in the function

Bob_Rocks: TLDR a fininte state machine

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: well, maybe not too much, but I've never seen things like lagrangians. I've done math tho if you want to vent

Bob_Rocks: I **would** say something like lagrangians are just energy functions (which they kind of are but it's not like a hamiltonian where it's the total energy)

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: energy of a system?

Bob_Rocks: Yes the energy of a system

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: and I'm assuming we're talking kinematics here, so no chemical potential energy and all that stuff

Bob_Rocks: No that's allowed

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: oh wow

Bob_Rocks: L (the lagrangian density) = T - U Kinetic energy - potential energy

Bob_Rocks: So gravitational, chemical, spring, whatever

DollarAkshay: #Denmark

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: all right :)

Bob_Rocks: but anyway, I can't think of a better way to make something

Bob_Rocks: other than an ever changing finite state machine

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: minmax sounds good tho

Bob_Rocks: I hate using min max

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: yeah I would too

Bob_Rocks: it makes me feel like I'm so inept that I can't bother to make a better solution than minmax

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: I have been able to avoid it until now

Bob_Rocks: I'd rather use some simplified form of minmax where the initial future states are calculated about 1 or 2 steps in advance

Bob_Rocks: and then I do some analysis based on that instead of using the remaining time per frame computing the rest of the states

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: 2 states sounds like not a lot tho

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: but minmax + some kind of eval sounds like the way to go

Bob_Rocks: I agree so maybe I'd say like 10 states

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: yeah, sounds more like it

Kellthazar: I like minimax with alphaBeta... its so clever.

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: I'm just gonna do what I always do and try to identify problems from gameplay. ad hoc solutions, here I come!

Bob_Rocks: yeah that's what I was thinking but it still makes me feel stupid lol

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: because you're walking the paved path

Bob_Rocks: what do you mean

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: standing on the shoulders of giants

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: doing the things a lot of people have done

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: well maybe not exactly that, but idk

Bob_Rocks: lol

Bob_Rocks: My idea now is to try and create a simulation of the game that I can step through and try to beat an algorithm that's pretty good at beating a novice

Bob_Rocks: specifically stepping through and giving commands

Bob_Rocks: then I can see what strategies that I come up with during the game

Bob_Rocks: so that I can implement those control states during the algorithm

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: I do some of that too :) in the mad pod racing I just added heuristic after heuristic

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: here I plan to do the same

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: but remind me to go to bed soon, I live in europe. it's 2 am here XD

Bob_Rocks: oh lmao

Bob_Rocks: well yeah you should go to bed 2am programming is probably not good for you

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: morning-me is gonna be glad if I do that, but now-me says I need to finish this small thing first

Bob_Rocks: well it is what it is

Bob_Rocks: wait a minute

Bob_Rocks: for the neutral factories there is a larger chance for factories to be 0 than any other number

Bob_Rocks: at least that's what it feels like

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: yep

Bob_Rocks: but I wonder what the chance is specifically

Bob_Rocks: well I can compute it but I"m not sure I want to

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: I'd say at least half of them are

Bob_Rocks: I coudl just run the code that does nothing for the first frame and then basically deconstruct all the probabilities for every number

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: but I havent seen much

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: yeah :)

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: takes some time tho

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: and it might change in higher leagues

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: but most important thing is just to decide and start doing something :)

Bob_Rocks: well I'm just gonna start reverse engineering the probabilities in the game

Kellthazar: are you talking about the pod racing game?

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: I was briefly

Bob_Rocks: Cyborg Uprising / Ghost in The Cell

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: now it's back to cyborg uprising

Bob_Rocks: For pod racing I think I'll have to reverse engineer the thrust physics

Bob_Rocks: if I can get a set of equations then I can at least look at them and maybe find something

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: most of the rules (like turn speed) are specified once you get higher leagues

Bob_Rocks: Bruh come on

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: XD

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: yeah, I found it a bit offputting too

Bob_Rocks: Litearlly gatekeeping my simulation making

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: you don't need a very good bot to get out of wood tho

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: bronze was a breeze too

Bob_Rocks: for pod racing?

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: silver took some work

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: yep

Bob_Rocks: Bruh

Bob_Rocks: well I haven't tried it in about 2 years

Bob_Rocks: I couldn't get out of wood 2 years ago

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: oof

Bob_Rocks: but at least I'm bronze in Cyborg Uprising from my 900 lines of C# that I wrote like a year ago

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: XD

Bob_Rocks: half the code was documentation

Bob_Rocks: and yet I still dont understand what it does to this day

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: that's hilarious :D

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: mfs in bot games be like: "if I don't know what I'm doing, you sure as hell don't know what I'm doing"

Bob_Rocks: lol

Default avatar.png Julian_Dixon: if

Default avatar.png Julian_Dixon: if

Default avatar.png Julian_Dixon: this is ai

Default avatar.png Julian_Dixon: love it

Bob_Rocks: Automaton2000 is this ai

Automaton2000: oh, i got it :)

Bob_Rocks: Automaton2000 answer the question is this ai

Automaton2000: and when i need to finish my bot

Bob_Rocks: well it is what it is

Default avatar.png Aldoggen: all right, I'm heading to bed

Crosility: The code must go on.

Default avatar.png HenroLST: smh not coding in your sleep during forcefully induced lucid dreaming?

Default avatar.png Naya08: im so lost

Default avatar.png Naya08: im new at this

Crosility: Are you asking for help Naya08, or where to begin?

Default avatar.png Naya08: help

Crosility: What do you need help with?

Crosility: A puzzle, programming, starting, .. what's your goal?

Default avatar.png HenroLST: for c++, if i wanted to find the value of the first element in a vector that fits a certain criteria, what would i do? just iterate through the whole vector in a for loop?

Crosility: You're asking about search criteria?

Crosility: That's one method, if your vector is small enough.

Crosility: If it's unsorted, then yes, 1 by 1 search till a criteria matches is the best case.

Default avatar.png HenroLST: yeah, I was just wondering if theres another method, such as similar to std::find or std:: find_first_of

Crosility: No, essentially that functionality is the same as just implementing a basic loop, and going through the vector/list.

Default avatar.png HenroLST: ok, thanks

Crosility: But, apparently there is the algorithm library.

Crosility: That does it.

Crosility: So, I'm wrong.


Crosility: It does the for loop for you.

Default avatar.png HenroLST: nope your right i think, it doesnt return a iterator or integer value, its a binary expression i beleive

Default avatar.png HenroLST: oh wait nvm it does return a iterator

Default avatar.png HenroLST: thanks!

Crosility: Sorry I was wrong at first, been a few years since I used C++, forgot about algorithm library. :P You're welcome.

Default avatar.png Zaos: yo

Default avatar.png Zaos: is there anyway to head back into a clash of code

Default avatar.png Zaos: like I wanted to finish my code but the timer ran out

Default avatar.png HenroLST: thanks! finally solved the spoons after realizing it was not just literally next index :sweat_smile:

Default avatar.png HenroLST: zaos, i dont think there is

Default avatar.png HenroLST: however using the coc chat you can ask others still doing for test cases and the problem

Default avatar.png Zaos: damn that sucks, I really wanted to figure that out

Default avatar.png HenroLST: do you remember the problem?

Default avatar.png Zaos: Yea I took a pic of it

Default avatar.png HenroLST: you can go to another IDE to try

Default avatar.png HenroLST: i mostly use USACO's free IDE under resources in USACO guide

Default avatar.png HenroLST: actually depends on language

Default avatar.png Zaos: i am probably going to usle idle

Default avatar.png Zaos: for python

Default avatar.png HenroLST: USACO only for python and C++ and Java i think

Default avatar.png Zaos: Thanks

Default avatar.png Zaos: figured it out

Crosility: Man, Blunder - Episode 1 ( was a lot of fun.

Default avatar.png HenroLST: ill try it

Default avatar.png HenroLST: Just took a break to verify my C++ language cause jsut realized verification test for a language is a thing :sweat_smile:

Gameonn: I'm using PHP for programming and all my coding tests.

Default avatar.png HenroLST: oo crosility this looks fun

Crosility: See, a really nice logic-tree, 2d array, state machine puzzle.

Gameonn: Is it good to go for long term?

Crosility: Well, off for now. been fun. Did my 1 puzzle/day. And a clash. Good luck and have fun Coders

Default avatar.png HenroLST: lmao ive been doing similar, does wonders for improvment, cya later

Default avatar.png HenroLST: dont forget to lucid dream coding