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Default avatar.png Whysaac: if a clash ends before you finish is there a way to continue playing until you can complete it?

struct: search it here


struct: might need to load up

Default avatar.png Whysaac: ty

eulerscheZahl: it's loaded

eulerscheZahl: but probably offline for the rest of the month soon

eulerscheZahl: i hit the 80% uptime per month 2 days ago already

Default avatar.png miobyte: struct how r u always active here?

eulerscheZahl: the trick is not to sleep or blink

Default avatar.png rwilson: i bet a beer he's around but not answering just to prove he's NOT always active

eulerscheZahl: but as a moderator he's always shown when logged in. i can assure you there are at least 100 other users who can read this chat right now but aren't shown as online (only visible to moderators)

lifetimeLearner007: Can someone tell me what is wrong with this code? I keep getting StackOverflow error

mlomb: what is your exit condition?

Default avatar.png rwilson: looks like exit condition is the maxscore ... but that MIGHT end up taking too many turns to get there.. ?

mlomb: you, you could limit it to 200

mlomb: yup*

Default avatar.png rwilson: well - take that back - exiting on that isn't quite there...

eulerscheZahl: should be fine if he only generates valid moves. that's the exit conditino

lifetimeLearner007: I'm running in my local. It should eventually finish right? Local doesn't have limitation of time

mlomb: true, make sure you don-t have WAIT always there

lifetimeLearner007: yes, WAIT isn't there always.

Default avatar.png rwilson: @lifetimeLearner007 so you've got a BFS going over the move states, but trying to exit when 'phase' = null ... you could check what you're doing with applyAction() .. but i'd personally start with measuring a few things ( like how deep it's going & likely put a hard turn limit in there... game ends after 200 game phases anyways )

eulerscheZahl: that's DFS

lifetimeLearner007: #rwilson, I think I'm doing DFS

eulerscheZahl: i don't see anything wrong in the part of your bot that you shared

eulerscheZahl: maybe in combination with a move generator that loops

eulerscheZahl: do you put a training card to playedCards?

eulerscheZahl: when you use the skill

Default avatar.png rwilson: :hand_splayed: :sweat_smile:

lifetimeLearner007: #rwilson, the first line in applyAction() is to set phase to null. It is rewritten only if I've extra card or something

lifetimeLearner007: I guess I've to debug through entire tree to see where I'm adding invalid actions that is causing infinite loop.

eulerscheZahl: just print your move sequence each time you enter the function. see if it gets unreasonably long

eulerscheZahl: or something like if (actions.size() > 20) dummy action to put a breakpoint on

GroutchKeu: o/

Tien118: :taco:

Default avatar.png rwilson: :beer:

lifetimeLearner007: #eulerscheZahl, Thanks. Playing TRAINING card allows to play one more card and my code was playing one more card indefinitely... Hence the stack overflow

eulerscheZahl: great. initially the game itself had the same bug

lifetimeLearner007: Does the skill card go to draw pile or discard pile after it is used?

eulerscheZahl: discard

lifetimeLearner007: doesn't seem to be consistent. In one instance, after using training card, it went to draw pile.

lifetimeLearner007: ok, after training, I needed to play one more card but I didn't have any. So, turn ended triggering discrad pile to move to draw pile I think

eulerscheZahl: still used => played => (after play phase) discard. when draw is empty, all discard goes to draw

jacek: hmm, i had 3 recaptchas on submit today

oidrissi: Guys, can someone please explain this: Turn 12

Magus: It's the 12th turn

Magus: But I think we miss a part of the question

oidrissi: My bad

oidrissi: I understood as i was asking the question

Default avatar.png kataaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa: hi

Default avatar.png zersch: ell

Default avatar.png zersch: o

Default avatar.png kataaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa: davidddddddddddd

Default avatar.png YuyuXD: wtf

Default avatar.png New6969: why are questions easy can i increase difficulty?

jacek: clashes? you cant

Default avatar.png friendlyPenguin: some of them won't be that easy, it depends

Default avatar.png putibuzu: Hi

Sheeesh---: psyho is on top again

Sheeesh---: the leaderboard is on fire

eulerscheZahl: it's not that easy to just stop and switch to topcoder i guess

Psyho: haha yes

Psyho: especially since I feel I understand this contest and now there's a long list of small tweaks that I should try

Psyho: and I have yet no clue about topcoder contest

Westicles: 3 Americans in the top 200, and 73 french

eulerscheZahl: i had a quick look at TC but no clue either. probably another beam or simulated annealing round

Psyho: that being said it's mostly just 10 minutes of implementing few one liners & wait few hours for league system to produce stable results

eulerscheZahl: the stage 3 problems were a better fit for me. was move about creativity and a completely unique approach than beam

Psyho: I do think that all stage 4 problems are really good

Psyho: and none of them were standard BS/SA

eulerscheZahl: your local league system i suppose? you won't get anything stable here on CG

Psyho: yeah, local league

eulerscheZahl: maybe it's just that i'm not good at those problems we had at stage 4

Psyho: it's my code from halite 2

eulerscheZahl: stage 3 had a multi-agent (sheep shearing) and one about probabilites

eulerscheZahl: somehow a lot of contestants didn't get the math to properly compute them

Psyho: and during the springchallenge2022 stream I made it work for CG

Psyho: oh yeah, probabilities / hidden information is sort of different type of contests

Psyho: I do prefer full information as I can use my code optimization skills more

eulerscheZahl: sorry, didn't watch nothing against you, i rarely watch streams for more than 5min. just a quick peak to see the local setup (operating system, IDE, ..) for curiosity

Psyho: (plus smaller variance in general so you need fewer tests)

Psyho: I don't blame you, I stated several times that I think watching streams has low value and I'm not a target so I have no clue what is useful for viewers

eulerscheZahl: i just like the thinking out of the box. i never worked too hard on getting good at optim. and for those totally different tasks everyone starts at the same level

Psyho: I believe most people just watch it in the background and sometimes tune in if there's something they find interesting

Default avatar.png tony_on_xbl: hi

Psyho: "i just like the thinking out of the box." - I do feel that was the case for all of the recent problems

eulerscheZahl: reCruse once streamed a CG contest too. somehow it derailed into hours of stuffing the game state into a few bits and serializing. he himself didn't get why it was so popular

Psyho: none of them were typical and for all of them we ended up with a wide variety of different types of solutions

eulerscheZahl: then i just failed to see the big picture. standard beam approach and mediocre rank

Psyho: wait none of the used beam search

eulerscheZahl: none of the top. i did :(

Psyho: so... you lack on the creativity side :P

eulerscheZahl: hard to name what was my problem with it. maybe that the task was abstract and hard to visually see what's wrong with your solution

eulerscheZahl: the sheep shearing was completely different in that regard

Psyho: probably sheep was more game-y

Psyho: and experience from CG transfers to that

Psyho: the recent ones are straight up optimization, although very untypical ones

Nerchio: what languages do they accept at topcoder

eulerscheZahl: probably. the sheep was very much in my favor to snipe Daiver

eulerscheZahl: C#, Java, C++, Python

Psyho: c++,c#,python,java

Psyho: c++ recommended though

Nerchio: maybe i should check out some problems

eulerscheZahl: some have animations. also in the statement to explain it. but only visible when you are logged in

Psyho: I probably stated this before, but I do feel that while bot games are more fun on usual, optimization problems are much better at teaching basic stuff

Psyho: mostly due to low variance of the results

Psyho: but this is extremely important because low variance tells you if you're doing something better or worse

eulerscheZahl: optim is definitely better for a fair outcome

eulerscheZahl: here my rank is going up and down

Psyho: and with bot contests you can waste hours on something that you have no clue if it's a general improvement or not

Psyho: so the tempo of learning is much lower

eulerscheZahl: i just like the gamified approach. when i entered, i never planned to get that competitive

Psyho: oh yeah, I can relate to that

Psyho: btw, "topcoder is all about beam search & simulated annealing" - when I did my first two contests on CG (ages ago)

Psyho: I did beam search in both

MSmits: eulerscheZahl think we will both enter legend?

MSmits: it's so random

MSmits: btw, this feels like old times with the group that is near the top.

MSmits: Illed an, you, me roya le all close together

MSmits: it's just jace k that feels out of place tbh :P

eulerscheZahl: beam is also helpful for some CG games, true. especially those with little opponent interaction

eulerscheZahl: we will pass MSmits. even a good boss candidate. i don't want to be boss

MSmits: i could be boss, my bot doesnt use that much calc time, except on rare turns

Nerchio: i want to be the boss can we arrange that

MSmits: but people will overfit vs boss

MSmits: which means they overfit vs you

Nerchio: thats fine

Nerchio: but still only 1 bot can be a boss so unlikely no matter what

MSmits: yeah

eulerscheZahl: we still miss dbdr in the top group :(

MSmits: oh yeah

MSmits: and robo

eulerscheZahl: agade, recurse and pb if you look back even further

MSmits: pb not that far

MSmits: he won one not too long ago

MSmits: ocean

eulerscheZahl: magu s usually gets strong on the last days only. still time for him

Nerchio: didn't pb won the witches?

MSmits: maybe both

eulerscheZahl: yes, both

Nerchio: i remember some insane spell combo calculations

Nerchio: in excel :joy:

MSmits: i skipped that contest

kovi: karliso also did last days appearances few times

Neumann: Do you think they will aim for top10 at Legend opening ? Or more since there is less contestants ?

eulerscheZahl: but no one enters as late as dapo

Neumann: Haha, true

Neumann: But a erfurbished phone ? Meh, not worth for him

MSmits: he enters sooner than you think. You just dont see him :P

eulerscheZahl: their boss selection is automated now. no idea what they implemented

eulerscheZahl: i think i'm a good boss candidate (15th atm)

MSmits: you code like a boss

Nerchio: the differences are so small you can jump to 10 by 2 people submitting and losing to you

Nerchio: or get beat up like I just did by square

MSmits: heh yeah you'll be boss, with 40 people passing you in a few hrs :)

eulerscheZahl: local testing shows that i even lost to a bot printing RANDOM in 5% of the games or so

MSmits: lol

MSmits: going home from work now. Lots of coding to do today, talk to you on sunday :)

eulerscheZahl: don't forget to walk your god

eulerscheZahl: dog

Illedan: 200 games local test and the difference is 1 win/lose -.-

emh: my sim is working, but not ready for submit

lifetimeLearner007: CONTINUOUS_INTEGRATION 5 Isn't this a valid action?

emh: lifetimeLearner007 only if you have two in hand

darkhorse64: only if you have two ci

darkhorse64: ^

Psyho: my submission that got now #1 spot had a massive bug (~1.5 ELO diff in local league), talk about variance

Psyho: so I now expect to be barely in top 10 after fixing it

jacek: 1.5 ELO? oh my

Illedan: Psyho, did you see any problems with brutaltester and using multiple threads locally?

Psyho: hm, no idea

Psyho: do you have something specific in mind?

Illedan: Yeah, eulerscheZahl had huge problems

Illedan: running random vs his 15th bot with 4 threads caused the random to win 30 %

Psyho: it doesnt crash for me, it does produce some results

Illedan: Using only 1 thread caused him to win 95%

Psyho: even if you use "-t 1" it's still using threads

Illedan: Yeah, but multiple

Psyho: because tester & both solutions each use separate threads

Default avatar.png Mengshang: Why I get the first place but the system not notice me, which cause me can't finish the task,May I wait until the clash over?

Psyho: I always run it with "-t 1"

Illedan: k

Default avatar.png Mengshang: There someone can answer me???

Psyho: I'd prefer to run it in a single thread (i.e. tester & both players would share a single thread and everything would be executed sequentially)

derjack: Mengshang you need to wait until the clash is over

Default avatar.png Mengshang: Thank. I have recved the notice of the system

kovi: Psyho so that testing environment running many threads is stable? ("flat" timed calculations)

Default avatar.png Mengshang: My English not well.:joy:

Psyho: yeah, plus it's easier to estimate the number of games my league can play concurrently

YurkovAS: don't forget add option "-s" for brutal-tester

kovi: valid btw, nice prediction on scoreboard you removed a massive bu...feature

Psyho: I'm only using brutal tester in order to run a single game with random players on two random positions

derjack: run multiple separate brutal testers [solved]

Default avatar.png Mengshang: I can create some app by Qt(C++) now, I want to learn an other lang.ask some advice

Psyho: like this:

j4at: that doesn't handle draw correctly

Psyho: why? I think it does

Psyho: brutal tester reports 0% for both players

Psyho: so it should return [0, 0]?

oidrissi: Psyho any stream coming soon?

j4at: ow I thought it reports 50% for both

j4at: my bad :p

Psyho: oldrissi: nope, I only streamed the first day of the contest

Psyho: no streams in the near future

Psyho: I could try to stream CoC at some point but I'm not sure if that would be entertaining or not

Psyho: (or educational)

j4at: you should definitely steam coc

oidrissi: Personally I really was looking forward to streams of Green Circle, see how you brainstorm and yeah...I wanna know how to implement a full search algorithm and you started doing so, it was interesting for me

oidrissi: How many people in the top 100 using only heuristics in your opinion?

derjack: :zipper_mouth:

Nerchio: probably plenty

Nerchio: i have search + heuristics but I am pretty sure I could do almost the same with just heuristics

oidrissi: In my experience Good heuristics only can get you to legend but for this game? Idk

Default avatar.png sua501: :) have a good day!

derjack: maybe some state machine

Psyho: oldrissi, hard to tell how many

Psyho: I usually just look at % of people using python in top 100 :D

Psyho: imho it's easier to get a decent result with sim-based solution

Psyho: mostly because it's less frustrating

Psyho: with heuristics & high-variance game like this, you have mostly no clue about what you're doing

Psyho: with sim-based, you know that if you implement all of the things, you'll get at least decent solution

Psyho: if you exclude my functions for:

Psyho: huh

Psyho: wtf hell happened :D

derjack: pastebins dont work

Psyho: I didn't try pasting anything

Psyho: test: - asdfslfdkaj

Psyho: hm

darkhorse64: tldr;

derjack: it automatically converts long lines

Psyho: tldr; if you exclude my 3 main functions (gen possible moves, simulated single step, find move via heuristic) then sim-based approach adds like 10-15 lines of code

derjack: you just excluded 99% things

Psyho: 90% of my heuristic function is in my stream

derjack: shameless advertising

Psyho: and gen moves + simulating single step is just boring programming work

Psyho: it doesn't even have to be super fast

Psyho: I was still replying to oldrissi's "Personally I really was looking forward to streams of Green Circle, see how you brainstorm and yeah...I wanna know how to implement a full search algorithm and you started doing so, it was interesting for me"

Psyho: assuming they're still here :)

oidrissi: Simulating single steps is the step i'm stuck at

oidrissi: Yes

oidrissi: Thank you for the answer

Psyho: well, it's a bit of a work (my code for that is around 150 lines) + lots of possibilities for bugs

Psyho: but there's not much creativity here, it's just a lot of pain and you have to power through it!

struct: gold is so small this time, its going to be hard to get to legend

oidrissi: does simpy work on the ide?

Uljahn: no, we have numpy, scipy and pandas though


oidrissi: Thank you!

darkhorse64: struct: I expect we will need to win at least 5 ELO points over two days to make it

struct: darkhorse64 5 Elo seems very hard

struct: The gap usually isnt this big

Default avatar.png offroff: seems like rank 100 in silver is pretty far from gold, my if and else conditions doesn't do much :(

struct: 8.0 point is close to 100% winrate iirc

darkhorse64: You have two hours to play games against the top 10 and gather ideas. I already have 10 TODO lines

eulerscheZahl: if i can suggest something to you?

eulerscheZahl: release applications

eulerscheZahl: joking aside, your opening move looks unusual already. who needs architecture?

struct: your first move is 3 euler?

struct: brb

darkhorse64: ouch ! I have a bug. Architecture is for increasing my hand. I found it better than collecting TaskPrio for a start

eulerscheZahl: my first move was 2, struct. watch closely

darkhorse64: Not much time atm. I am expected to do my real job

eulerscheZahl: bestest opening

Nerchio: its best only because you haven't tried moving to 7 euler

eulerscheZahl: i should visit cells in descending order: 7,6,5,4

struct: sorry euler I'm a lua dev

struct: anyways I need to try harder now, I won't be very active in chat, ping me if it's needed, it will be open in other tab

eulerscheZahl: wait, you got a job struct?

struct: no, it was a joke euler because I said 3

struct: instead of 2

eulerscheZahl: aaah

derjack: smits goes to 5 :thinking:

lifetimeLearner007: Does WAIT after MOVE triggers RELEASE phase always?

oidrissi: if possible move == release it triggers, else no

lifetimeLearner007: in the first turn MOVE 2 -> WAIT triggers RELEASE but not when MOVE 3 -> WAIT

oidrissi: It means you can't release anything

oidrissi: on move 3

oidrissi: or after move3

oidrissi: but you can after move2

lifetimeLearner007: Did I miss reading it in the problem statement? Which other MOVEs allow release?

oidrissi: I think u misunderstood what I just said

oidrissi: If possible_move contains something of said game phase, it will trigger the game phase

elderlybeginner: Whan to TRAIN/CODE and when not to? (contest)

eulerscheZahl: that sentence makes no sense

elderlybeginner: When TRAINING/CODING in move phase has no sense?

eulerscheZahl: of course it makes more sense in the PLAY phase when it's actually a valid move

elderlybeginner: sure, I meant PLAY phase :wink:

elderlybeginner: Is there a point in building the deck at the cost of slower first 4 releases?

elderlybeginner: Is it worth to postpone release and keep some cards?

eulerscheZahl: it's worth not drowning in debt

eulerscheZahl: but don't ask me about the tradeoff, i suck at this game :(

elderlybeginner: yep, I don't like it. Just going with if's and minimal effort.

derjack: is this how you do at your job

elderlybeginner: "That's what she said" would be better response :wink:

derjack: :upside_down:

Astrobytes: he'd need to use the jacek account for that though

Default avatar.png offroff: I'm looking for the minimal effort to reach gold now

Dapps: let me know if you found it. i put in maximum effort and just squeezed in

elderlybeginner: top silver seems to be a limit for minimal effort heuristics

Dapps: ^ this

Dapps: added in some limited (half-baked) sim just got me to gold

eulerscheZahl: and gold to legend will be the limit for poor 1 turn searches i fear :(

eulerscheZahl: was the boss in 30min or 1h 30min last time?

Dapps: i have no hope. will legend be top.. 10? 15?

Astrobytes: 30 min

struct: top 1

Nerchio: legend will be my rank +1

eulerscheZahl: who knows Dapps

Dapps: struct lol top 1 - the true legend

eulerscheZahl: but i predict it won't get that much larger after opening

struct: maybe 15th

struct: since the bot is in py3

darkhorse64: Cut predicted at 30 or top 10

eulerscheZahl: simulation contests always have a small legend

darkhorse64: ELO 30

struct: well this one will be even smaller because of the amount of players in gold

eulerscheZahl: oh, i thought rank 10 or 30

eulerscheZahl: wenn der Hahn kräht auf dem Mist, ändert sich das Wetter oder es bleibt wie's ist

darkhorse64: :laughing:

StevenV: wow, java top1

Astrobytes: nice euler

eulerscheZahl: you translated that?

darkhorse64: yep

Astrobytes: I had to use Google, couldn't understand it all

struct: No need to translate, german is pretty similar to portuguese

eulerscheZahl: but the rhyme got lost in translation

Astrobytes: Yes, but the rhyme sounds great in German

Astrobytes: to me at least

Default avatar.png .Anonymous.: Hello World

struct: hi

darkhorse64: in french: "les chiens aboient, la caravane passe"

struct: In portuguse, "Os cães ladram, mas a carava passa".

struct: *caravana

darkhorse64: I recognized one word

struct: which one?

darkhorse64: caravana

Astrobytes: :D

jacek: rank is pretyy rng, just spam submit until legend

darkhorse64: google translate likes "carava"

eulerscheZahl: caravan?

darkhorse64: yes

Astrobytes: life goes on, regardless

jacek: :(

Illedan: Legend will be crowded because of the randomness

eulerscheZahl: it will be small

jacek: thats NOT what she said

eulerscheZahl: it's a simulation contest. simulation legends are always small

TINOUAINANI: When it will open?

eulerscheZahl: reaching legend will be hard?

eulerscheZahl: are you happy now, jacek?

eulerscheZahl: in 15min or so

square1001: Could you tell me the meaning of "simulation contest"?

Astrobytes: simulate actions, search alorithm to find the best

Astrobytes: *algorithm

struct: for me its all games lol

jacek: :notebook: :soccer:

square1001: So... One can write simulation codes for most game. What's the difference against non-simulation one?

struct: I would say work better with heuristics

struct: but to me that seem counter-intuitive

struct: say some work better*

eulerscheZahl: have a look at the previous contest (spider attack). that worked fairly well with long if-else cascades

eulerscheZahl: this green circle game on the other hand is really hard to analyze. when i don't even know how to play as a human, how shall i tell my bot?

Nerchio: is it that hard to play though?

Dapps: reminds me of the other contest, the tree one. i had no idea if i was making a good move or not

jacek: so you use simulations

Astrobytes: I found that one quite intuitive

Dapps: my brain couldn't comprehend it

struct: That one was also quite simple to eval

struct: this one?

struct: gl

struct: time to see who is the chosen one

Nerchio: ?

square1001: What? Boss 1 rating 31.83?

eulerscheZahl: boss

square1001: The real boss...

eulerscheZahl: where is it?

Nerchio: #1?

Illedan: Imba boss :D

eulerscheZahl: seriously?


Illedan: GL HF

Nerchio: Xd

Illedan: :D

struct: is this seriuous?

eulerscheZahl: i guess their automated boss selection needs some rework

Nerchio: so nobody is in legend atm? xD

eulerscheZahl: ping staff on discord :D

Illedan: Dont!

Illedan: This will be fun

Illedan: :D

eulerscheZahl: ok, let's deal with it :(

Dapps: guess we were right. legend of only 1

Nerchio: so wala is the boss then

aCat: your notion of fun is weird Ille

square1001: No, still 0 legends

struct: I did say 1st

struct: Its my fault sorry

Dapps: banned

Astrobytes: what happened?

Dapps: so wala is boss

eulerscheZahl: boss is wala

Dapps: can win by rng

eulerscheZahl: #1

struct: he is the boss and doesnt even get promoted

struct: :p

Astrobytes: hahahaha

Astrobytes: that went well then

eulerscheZahl: i expected a strong boss. but not that strong

Dapps: very very small legend pool this time

eulerscheZahl: wala isn't even online to see the mess he caused

Astrobytes: boss level BOSSSSS

struct: I just want to know if its on purpose or not

Zylo: wala: what are the weak point of Legend Boss :-D ?

Dapps: written in java

Nerchio: boss is already gaining points xdd

eulerscheZahl: pretty sure it's a bug

Michael_Howard: I'm guessing this is because Legend was so crowded last time.

eulerscheZahl: they have automated boss selection now

jacek: and legend will revert to alpha again?

Astrobytes: lel

eulerscheZahl: we will never find out

aCat: I'm pretty sure they would spend less time selecting bosses than fixing on automated selected ones ^^

Nerchio: boss = officialContest ? random(): players.get(0)

struct: no

eulerscheZahl: aCat

struct: this is the boss selection

square1001: bowwow resubmitted! Go for the legend!

Astrobytes: lol

struct: for (Bot &b : bots) if (b.language == "Java") return b;

Nerchio: xdd

TINOUAINANI: struct legend or delete :grin:

struct: They never expected Java to be first

eulerscheZahl: "a bad boss came out"

Nerchio: another game where I will be stuck in top gold I guess :D

eulerscheZahl: looks like a need a major rewrite for legend

struct: im already on my 8th

struct: I write 1 bot per da

struct: day*

Astrobytes: continuous integration struct?

jacek: legend or delete

eulerscheZahl: maybe the duck or royale can promote. they haven't submitted a single time in gold and still high

Nerchio: Thibaud "damn it. From 2k players in Gold during Spring Challenge to 200 here 😬 I've asked for help"

struct: I'm hiding obviously

eulerscheZahl: we can't keep this boss?

eulerscheZahl: wala just 0.02 behind

struct: for me its fine

struct: its a challange

struct: challenge*

struct: Cant type today

BrunoFelthes: wow, wala is the boss?

struct: Its probably a bug BrunoFelthes

struct: I should be the boss, something went wrong

jacek: kree java!

Zylo: wala is not a bug :-P

Astrobytes: Julien just came online, guessing it'll be fixed soon

square1001: I still believe that it is intentional

BrunoFelthes: the boss is java

struct: square1001 from thibaud reaction on discord it isnt

struct: o.o

Nerchio: codingame trying to tell us "learn to code noobs"?

square1001: Okay, I didn't see that. Thanks

eulerscheZahl: they do a full rerun for legend after the contest. small legend saves some costs here

therealbeef: bad boss picking heuristic

Astrobytes: the ultimate green legend

BrunoFelthes: no legends, no process

struct: hardest legend so far

Astrobytes: lowest carbon footprint legend in CG history

struct: if we all submit at the same time maybe we can make it

Astrobytes: of all the bugs though, this is a pretty good one :D

struct: This one should be a feature

jacek: thats 5th league, no shoddies!

j4at: 2 days, 17 hours left It's time to start working on my Green Circle bot. I gave you start advantage bc you will not have any chance etherwise KEKW It's time to use my secret strategy (switching between first and last action)

jacek: inclusive?

struct: Actually you can print 2 actions in 1 turn and make 2 moves at once

struct: you should try

Astrobytes: switching between implies first and last exclusively jacek

j4at: ^

jacek: :rage:

Astrobytes: :smiling_imp:

BrunoFelthes: after gold, my code is too big :/

Astrobytes: too big to fit in legend?

j4at: that's what she said

Astrobytes: lol

struct: You know what they should do

jacek: :tada:

struct: instead of rank 1

struct: rank 2 should be the boss

struct: That would be better

eulerscheZahl: i vote for nerchio as boss

eulerscheZahl: oh, he dropped. then juju rocking

jacek: but hes above you

Nerchio: i think your boss has less than 50% against mine euler

eulerscheZahl: just what i believe will happen

struct: boss should be 1% of the league size

eulerscheZahl: it's not what i want but what i think will happen

struct: rank 1 made sense

Nerchio: sendBossRequest("eulerscheZahl")

TINOUAINANI: i vote for sheeesh--- to be the boss

eulerscheZahl: probably ranked too low

struct: jacek should be the boss

eulerscheZahl: if he takes little CPU time, that even looks somewhat realistic to me

eulerscheZahl: but i bet staff is on it already. sweating which bot to choose

struct: I give mine

struct: 0ms

eulerscheZahl: definitely a fun bug

struct: yeah

Astrobytes: Truly one of the greatest I've seen on CG

eulerscheZahl: there was this one day where every profile picture was the same. some caching error

Astrobytes: that's quite amusing

Default avatar.png Hello_20: negger

Sheeesh---: hold up

eulerscheZahl: struct, eat him alive

struct: well thats an easy ban

Astrobytes: Spelling champion of the year enters the chat

Mortis_666: will i still get the card at the desk im at if i use daily routine?

eulerscheZahl: you can choose

eulerscheZahl: MOVE 5 5 => gives you a card 5

eulerscheZahl: MOVE 5 6 => gives you a 6 while going to 5

Mortis_666: ohh

Mortis_666: thx

struct: python in top 5?

therealbeef: trolling in chat during contest is like trying to rob a cop bar

struct: What is wrong with my bot

Astrobytes: therealbeef :D


Nerchio: boss gone

MSmits: maybe he got promoted

MSmits: alone in legend

Nerchio: must be sad

Nerchio: noone to play against

jacek: he can play himself

Zylo: you can play with you from arena :-D

eulerscheZahl: Zylo are you really going full heuristics and no search?

Zylo: heuristics to state in end of round (move + play + release)

Zylo: and them I'll add some propabilities to heuristics of cards in next round...

Miki09: Why is noone in legend?

Miki09: Dis I miss smth?

Miki09: *did

Astrobytes: it opened with #1 gold as the boss :D

kovi: 35

Zylo: yes, you missed election of GOLD Boss and removing elected :-D

kovi: i hope i can stay above

Miki09: lol

emh: new C++ boss

struct: I dont see it

Michael_Howard: It's at the bottom

emh: it's at the bottom calculating

emh: yeah

Nerchio: haha

Nerchio: did they submit the boss

eulerscheZahl: my sources say it's jacek

jacek: oO

Nerchio: would be funny if boss got stuck in mid gold on randomness


kovi: techdebter

struct: yeah

struct: its jacek

jacek: so deterministic

struct: grats jacek

eulerscheZahl: oh dear, i thought i'm bubble up. jacek is a tough choice

struct: you have the honors of being the boss

jacek: i should have placed a timer :(

WhatTrickeryIsThis: jaceck good pick , WTIT very wrong pick -> inconsistent monkey strat

eulerscheZahl: i hate you already jacek. not your fault but you will be a pain

Astrobytes: first gold in a contest, first legend in a contest, and first gold boss in a contest: doing alright this time eh jacek :D

emh: how do you guys know it's jacek? he's rank 5. will be tough to get to Legend still

WhatTrickeryIsThis: :see_no_evil:

struct: check euler replays

struct: emh

jacek: im more like 10, just people spamm submitting

struct: it plays the same game

Nerchio: i mean the boss might as well end up on like #15

jacek: maybe thats the best optimal actions

TINOUAINANI: "put another boss instead. The boss is currently computing. It's @jacek 's bot "

struct: now people will optimize against jacek :(

Miki09: Does anybody know who is silver boss?

StevenV: do I miss sth, why we don't have legend now?

emh: 1-1 battle against boss

StevenV: >

Nerchio: good stop him :D

StevenV: ?

StevenV: where is legend?

struct: boss is computing

Astrobytes: there was a problem StevenV, it's fixed now

StevenV: well..

eulerscheZahl: oh, we can even watch it this time

j4at: anyone using NN ?

eulerscheZahl: not just taking the score of the original bot

StevenV: I still in silver, maybe the whole server just wait for me :D

eulerscheZahl: the boss might be a NN

darkhorse64: every chap in the leaderboard that gets passed by the boss lose hope

emh: yeah

eulerscheZahl: the author makes a secret out of it but is known for coding some

eulerscheZahl: you lost your hope already darkhorse64?

Astrobytes: and dominating with them

darkhorse64: I had no hope.

eulerscheZahl: it will be a pain. i don't want to rewrite everything and have no idea how

darkhorse64: thanks for the replay. My bot is hugely bugged as p2

struct: euler I'm sure you will make it

struct: Even I will get legend

eulerscheZahl: with other strong bots submitting at the same time jacek might not climb

eulerscheZahl: fingers crossed

MSmits: i'm worred about jacekboss, yesterday i saw versions of his that beat me 10x in a row

darkhorse64: euler losing hope

IvesL: do you still have small applications from bronze onwards?

eulerscheZahl: no

eulerscheZahl: even says so in the popup

Nerchio: anyone from top5 wants to resubmit now? :D

MSmits: yay i got doublewin vs jacekboss

j4at: euler send the chat history url


eulerscheZahl: and the boss got me :(

MSmits: noooo stop him

TINOUAINANI: boss 29.66

MSmits: past me :(

Nerchio: can't wait for the boss to pass jacek too

jacek: :scream:

jacek: youll miss wala boss

jacek: w00t

struct: :D

jacek: but when I submit my code, im barely 13th :x

Nerchio: i didnt get a single game vs boss

MSmits: that's not necessarily a bad thing

struct: me neither, but Im rank 70 so thats probably why

eulerscheZahl: i got 3: loss, win, tie

BrunoFelthes: boss win with 20 TD

struct: jacekmax is strong

jacek: tower defense?

BrunoFelthes: i hate you jacek

Astrobytes: :D

Michael_Howard: Automaton2000 will jacekboss end up at the top again?

Automaton2000: any way to get rid of all the pellets in the map

darkhorse64: jacek will lose all hopes in a short while

Astrobytes: pacman throwback

BrunoFelthes: how can you draw the winner cards with 25 TD?

struct: jacek reverse the game

eulerscheZahl: 4 bonus automated

struct: reversed*

eulerscheZahl: 1 lucky draw and one move draw

MSmits: struct i spent half the day converting to bitpacked... this was not easy like you said :P

MSmits: finally got all the bugs out

struct: Maybe you did it in a more optimized way or something

struct: what I did was quite simple

eulerscheZahl: oh, i had a timeout vs jacek

MSmits: i think i did the same as you

MSmits: 6 bits per card type, with TD being an exception

struct: I used 5 bits

jacek: bitboards? :scream:

struct: So I can store the size

MSmits: ye but need 6 bits for bonus

struct: 5*8+8+8+8

MSmits: i know

MSmits: but bonus doesnt fit in 5

struct: But then you cant store the size

MSmits: i just count

MSmits: dont store the size

MSmits: takes some calc time i suppose, sometimes

MSmits: adjusting the size every time something changes also does

struct: yeah should be similar I guess

struct: Performance doesnt matter much here anyways

MSmits: true

struct: you need to prune a lot

MSmits: i havent pruned yet

darkhorse64: jacek wrecked by its own creature

struct: I only prune actions

struct: Nothing else for now

MSmits: you mean lossless pruning?

Astrobytes: sound familiar darkhorse64? ;)

MSmits: or lossy?

darkhorse64: resistance is futile

struct: I dont know what that is MSmits

MSmits: lossless means you prune useless actions

struct: I mean I dont really generate all legal actions

struct: yeah

MSmits: lossy means you prune actions that are probably bad, but not certain

Crosility: Blasphemy struct. Performance always matter /s

struct: that sounds about right

struct: lossless

MSmits: ah ok, then yes you need to prune

MSmits: hashing works too though, with the bitpacked version

MSmits: thats why i did it

MSmits: ohhh he gettin close to me

Astrobytes: I was about to ask you why you changed your mind and switched

MSmits: yeah for the hashing :)

Astrobytes: makes sense

MSmits: hashing 60 ints is not fun

Astrobytes: heh heh heh

struct: yeah because performance wise it might be a bit worse the packed version

struct: but to hash it should be easier

struct: i only packed it to try beam

darkhorse64: I predicted a cut at 30 with 10 ppl

BrunoFelthes: starting today, it will be impossible to submit

eulerscheZahl: we got tweeted

MSmits: I got likes and I don't even have social media accounts

MSmits: like a boss!

jacek: whats with japan and tweets?

Nerchio: we are famous now MSmits

Astrobytes: right jacek?

MSmits: yes :)

darkhorse64: :head_bandage: 6 ELO to gain

darkhorse64: MSmits as a lucky loser ?

jacek: ELO?

Astrobytes: Electric Light Orchestra

kovi: can be pushed easily

MSmits: wait, why am I a lucky loser?

jacek: youre just loser

MSmits: o

darkhorse64: 1st no qualified

jacek: phew

MSmits: ok, so best loser

eulerscheZahl: you will get pushed

MSmits: no doubt

darkhorse64: Yeah, I can troll you because there are no worries

eulerscheZahl: i have some benchmark that looks promising so far. would be an honor for me if i can push you

eulerscheZahl: hm, getting less promising with more games now :/

j4at: ow 3 made it to legend

jacek: first contest legend :tada:

MSmits: grats

darkhorse64: gg

struct: grats jacek

Sheeesh---: GG

Nerchio: 3-1 vs boss 2-2 vs smits

Astrobytes: grats jacek :) :tada:

jacek: ok so far legend is not crashed

Astrobytes: lol, progress!

YurkovAS: :tada:

MSmits: bowwow kicked me in the face before leaving

struct: lol

MSmits: 6 losses in a row

darkhorse64: "la flêche du Parthe"

MSmits: whats that

eulerscheZahl: a hissing cat

MSmits: oh right

Astrobytes: the Parthian shot

Astrobytes: like a big "fk you" before you leave

darkhorse64: In ancient times, roman legions fought against Parths who had the habit the habit to throw arrows before leaving the battlefield

darkhorse64: Parthians sorry

Astrobytes: ^

MSmits: ohh that's indeed what he did

Astrobytes: Parthians were Iranian iirc

eulerscheZahl: Gallia in omnis divisa est in partes tres

jacek: regina noctis pro nobis!

Astrobytes: Galls divide omnipotently in tree parts

eulerscheZahl: close

MSmits: i dont think they were talking about parts of trees

Astrobytes: three that should be

Astrobytes: not tree

Astrobytes: Gauls that should be too I *think*

Astrobytes: Or Gaul

MSmits: keep going Nerchio

eulerscheZahl: that boss is still scary

Scarfield: python in the lead

MSmits: I need 0.23 more

jacek: strainfield

eulerscheZahl: python computing the fastest

Astrobytes: supersnake

Scarfield: thats what..

Astrobytes: :D

Nerchio: MSmits :)

struct: Damn my old bot was bad

jacek: old?

aCat: this looks as the old contests.. most people goes hardcore < 200 on gold and only a few in legend

aCat: :D

aCat: I hope I will have beter place then when I was staring then

aCat: (probably I already have, my old contests were crappy ;p)

Scarfield: its a card game, you have an advantage :p

Astrobytes: not just cards, but deck building too :P

aCat: I know - I really had half a day of switch from Tales of Tribute to this one :P

struct: jacek im just running brutaltester vs old versions to get win rates

Astrobytes: struct I think he was implying that your new one is bad too

jacek: :zipper_mouth:

struct: ...

Astrobytes: this IS jacek remember

MSmits: assisted trolling :P

Astrobytes: lol

kovi: assisted legend

Astrobytes: I will miss explaining the intent of peoples statements in chat

MSmits: :tada:

kovi: gj illedan

kovi: gratz msmits

Astrobytes: nice!

aCat: Smits gratz :-)

nmahoude: I'm next in line, push me please :)

darkhorse64: there is a big train coming

MSmits: thanks

darkhorse64: told ya: lucky loser

MSmits: sure

struct: just wait until my opening book is finished

therealbeef: you're welcome MSmits ;-)

struct: Now I'm going to counter book jace k

MSmits: good idea

struct: But now I have extra motivation to reach legend

struct: I have to beat jace k to get it

jacek: thats exactly why i introduce randomness - to prevent booking

struct: It seems deterministic though

jacek: randomness from game cancels it out

Scarfield: xD

Scarfield: he already counter booked you struct, thats why

struct: well my bot is deterministic

struct: It either uses 0ms or timesout

eulerscheZahl: 0.6, push me!

eulerscheZahl: or pull the boss, both is fine

Scarfield: so close you and nerch

struct: you should resubmit

struct: :p

Nerchio: yeah like me

eulerscheZahl: therealbeef was brave enough to do so

eulerscheZahl: oh, nerchio too

Scarfield: he is real beef

eulerscheZahl: oooh

eulerscheZahl: i always read there al beef

eulerscheZahl: never made sense to me

Nerchio: but i did small fixes that will probably change nothing

Scarfield: xD

jacek: ok, heres the boss code, enjoy


eulerscheZahl: :/

therealbeef: ille pushed me down (i hope)

eulerscheZahl: won't click, i know it's broken

Nerchio: at least it's not rickroll

MSmits: maybe it was

WhatTrickeryIsThis: i can share my tutorial how to code good evaluation here

Washier: HEHE

Sheeesh---: monke

Washier: return to monke

Sheeesh---: amen

Washier: i missed this card game, seems very popular. will give it a go once i stop obsessing with the board games

eulerscheZahl: Nerchio where are you. don't resubmit when i count on you

Nerchio: i introduced new :bug:

eulerscheZahl: you can do that in legend

Nerchio: cant believe how many bugs you can make in like 5 lines of code

MSmits: you can make so many bugs that they cancel eachother out. This is why people say their bot is worse when they fix 1

Default avatar.png Kanawanagasaki: on report page how to get clash name?

Scarfield: its like a hydra, cut off one bug, 3 new ones emerge

MSmits: you need to fix 2

Default avatar.png Kanawanagasaki: to train on it

jacek: you cant go back to clash

jacek: you can use to search for it though

WhatTrickeryIsThis: :skull: :frog: :hear_no_evil:

WhatTrickeryIsThis: nice podium

eulerscheZahl: i was close, then i lost some :/

WhatTrickeryIsThis: .4 is close enough

eulerscheZahl: was .22

WhatTrickeryIsThis: any strat vs boss? no weakness detected so far

Nerchio: don't worry i sent some garbage to the top

eulerscheZahl: ooh, 0.13 only

WhatTrickeryIsThis: he is in the stealing CI card business apparently

eulerscheZahl: so close

kovi: there, a win vs boss at start

eulerscheZahl: that boss bump was you kovi? thanks

WhatTrickeryIsThis: shreded

struct: I have 1% win rate vs the boss, if you want I can submit to help

Scarfield: what? first fight agains boss?

eulerscheZahl: RANDOM was higher winrate vs me than that

j4at: do clashes get chosen totally randomly ? or by the rank of the players?

jacek: yes

struct: I dont think its random

eulerscheZahl: they try to give a clash that none has played before

Nerchio: if we have 2 debt, 5 and 8 in discard, we draw 2 what is the chance to draw automate 8?

Nerchio: is it 1/4 + 1/3?

Rafarafa: is the boss going to be jacek's bot untill the end of the contest? or does it update at times?

Psyho: so you draw 2 cards out of 4 cards and you're interested in 1 of them?

Nerchio: or 2/4 + 1/3? but that seems too much

eulerscheZahl: 1 / binom(4,2)

Psyho: sounds like 50%

eulerscheZahl: 1/6

ilgiocatore: 2/4 * 1/3

Nerchio: but we draw 1 by 1 not 2 at once right euler?

eulerscheZahl: does not matter

eulerscheZahl: we draw two cards. period

Psyho: aaah both 5+8, what euler said above is correct

Washier: ok. this game sounds cool. must play. c ya l8er

therealbeef: 1/6th

therealbeef: out of 24 permutations, 4 start with 5 and 8

Scarfield: you cant add the 2/4 and 1/3 since you can only draw that one card once

ilgiocatore: 2/4 chance to draw 5 or 8, then 1/3 chance to draw 5 or 8. both events must happen, so you need to multiply, not add

Scarfield: ^

Nerchio: ok so i was counting correct except + not *

jacek: :thinking:

Astrobytes: *I was wrong but right

Astrobytes: :grin:

Nerchio: :sunglasses:

Washier: :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Astrobytes: yo Washier, been a minute!

Scarfield: xD

Washier: howzit Astrobytes

Astrobytes: ticking along here, how's work?

Washier: work ticking along. nice to see the old gaurd ticking on CG

Astrobytes: always!

jacek: not much longer

Washier: nooo

Astrobytes: ah yeah, chat is gonna disappear

Washier: oh well

Astrobytes: discord will still be there though

Washier: old men like me need to adapt then

Astrobytes: haha, if I can adapt anyone can

Quidome: I prefer this chat as well :)

Washier: cmon Astro, we all know you are 29

Default avatar.png Phiti: hii

Astrobytes: A whole decade removed!

Astrobytes: I wish :rofl:

Illedan: You 19?

Astrobytes: 39!

Illedan: ^^

Scarfield: factorial :O

Washier: ahem

Illedan: 2.0397882e+46 :O

Astrobytes: :rofl:

Illedan: Give or take, just some basic head math

Astrobytes: bunch of pedantic b**tards :D

Scarfield: xD

Washier: hehe

Scarfield: you know you love it

Astrobytes: of course :D

Washier: read that in Scottish accent

Astrobytes: heh heh!

ael-bekk: do I have a chance to be prompted to the legend leagues

ael-bekk: hhhh

struct: depends

struct: You might need to improve your bot

Washier: i would say improve your mad pod racing, good points on offer there.

Washier: nevermind. i'm thinking rank

struct: mad pod is outdated by now

Washier: yeah. i'm a lurker

jacek: hm?

struct: Getting legend there is trivial compared to most multis now

struct: Is what I wanted to say

eulerscheZahl: come on, no push for me? :(

Washier: ah cool thanks

Nerchio: you are getting pushed euler. to the bottom

Astrobytes: :D

eulerscheZahl: i was just 0.13 away

eulerscheZahl: not it's more than 1 point

Washier: unrelated, Mr Eulerschzahl, I tried to push you in checkers for a bit. not much luck. more work needed.

eulerscheZahl: it's fine, there is no boss i have to get pushed above

Washier: oic

MSmits: jacek is a Boss there too :P

therealbeef: i8 pushed boss up .4

jacek: try onitama

eulerscheZahl: i think checkers is still the bot i wrote while testing the game

Washier: I look up to Mr Jacek

Nerchio: well done therealbeef

PatrickMcGinnisII: USA is gonna be on fire tonight

Washier: sheez, that hurts Mr E

eulerscheZahl: why? did trump to something stupid again PatrickMcGinnisII?

PatrickMcGinnisII: Roe V. Wade got overturned

eulerscheZahl: oh dear

eulerscheZahl: the abortion

Astrobytes: kind of lucky chat will disappear, jacek will be going on about this for as long as the English go on about that world cup they won in 1966

Washier: eish

PatrickMcGinnisII: Biden just got on camera ... trying to keep people from doing violence

Astrobytes: PatrickMcGinnisII: Seriously?! :rage:

eulerscheZahl: welcome back in the early 20th cenctury

Washier: big smile for the world cup joke

PatrickMcGinnisII: Groups arre already mobilizing in my state to bunr sh8t down

Astrobytes: thanks Washier

PatrickMcGinnisII: burn

Washier: if this is true, holy shiz

Washier: not cool

eulerscheZahl: sheightt?

Washier: shize

Washier: kak

Washier: excrement

eulerscheZahl: ah, shit

therealbeef: red state, PatrickMcGinnisII?

PatrickMcGinnisII: short your stock. i don't know how that affects bitcoin,eth,etc.

eulerscheZahl: we are in europe. we can curse but not fire guns

Default avatar.png esjokeryt: SALAM YA HABIBI

eulerscheZahl: as opposed to the US

struct: even more economy damage?

struct: I think its bad enough already

Psyho: I'm not sure if tanking bitcoin counts as economic damage ;)

Miki09: What is the output for "THROW CARD" phase? "THROW card"?

struct: I didnt meant bitcoin

Astrobytes: lol Psyho

PatrickMcGinnisII: if you thought BLM protests were bad ... cops in Fl. are loading their teargas right now

Washier: no cmon

Razovsky: eulerscheZahl come on kill this boss plz :(

eulerscheZahl: i can't

eulerscheZahl: my bot sucks

Washier: i do not believe that. nein

PatrickMcGinnisII: I guess Legend opened?

Astrobytes: gonna chat with some of my US (FL included) friends later tonight, will get the word from numerous states

struct: Oh I seem to have a done an improvement w/e I did I cant remember

eulerscheZahl: and the gold boss was pushed already. 1 point above the rest

Washier: cool Astro

Miki09: What is the output for "THROW CARD" phase?

dot.nick: good day for america

eulerscheZahl: "THROW 5" for instance

Miki09: thanks

dot.nick: please try to attack our churches, lmk how it goes for you

**PatrickMcGinnisII is confused

Psyho: does legend work the same way as other leagues? does the trueskill have the same params?

PatrickMcGinnisII: the oligarchy wants US citizens to be divided

struct: I think so Psyho

Astrobytes: Yeah, divide and conquer everywhere today Patrick

struct: The only difference is that after the contest is finished it gets 500 more battles

Psyho: seems like everyone has 50% winrate against each other it's just 15-way tie

struct: each player gets

PatrickMcGinnisII: I still don't know how to get out of silver

struct: me and you patrick

Default avatar.png ashrafull:

Miki09: PatrickMcGinsill me 2

WhatTrickeryIsThis: legende computes more matches with extended reach +-10 from your position

struct: gold players trying to make it to legend


PatrickMcGinnisII: when the GF says no to sex, I aint givin up

Astrobytes: sex swing time

Astrobytes: struct :rofl:

Astrobytes: what is that dude doing

PatrickMcGinnisII: trying to get it in

Astrobytes: But whyyyy

PatrickMcGinnisII: so he can be legendary

Astrobytes: well, he's achieved some kind of status I guess

Astrobytes: legendary knob

yal3ab: hehehehehhehe

struct: I have no idea

PatrickMcGinnisII: knob == git ?

Astrobytes: same as dick

Astrobytes: Sorry, meant to capitalise that

PatrickMcGinnisII: I've been to the UK, but apparently didn't get the real xperience. ;)

Astrobytes: hahaha

Astrobytes: come tae Scotland

PatrickMcGinnisII: protest sites tonight

Astrobytes: well, good luck to 'em all. This on top of the expanded gun rights thing on Thursday...

Astrobytes: anyway, lets move on from political stuff for now

PatrickMcGinnisII: I have an unpopular opinion. I don't think the govt. has the right to limit me at all ... so no 'decision' is necessary to hold me up. but half the US is gonna be under police state rule by Oct.

**PatrickMcGinnisII is building torches

Illedan: Hi

struct: hi

Astrobytes: Yeah, I understand the liberty part

Astrobytes: Hi

eulerscheZahl: IMO the government can and should stop you from doing some things when it affects others

PatrickMcGinnisII: *nod*, i would think a Scot. would understand

eulerscheZahl: freely available guns have an impact on public safety

PatrickMcGinnisII: eulerscheZahl why can't have a nuclear reactor in my backyard? ;)

eulerscheZahl: because of earth quakes and tornadoes

Astrobytes: There are enough ways to improve gun laws without infringing on constitutional rights

PatrickMcGinnisII: btw, the guy that killed all those people in TX recently... he had over $9K worth of guns on him, no so free

eulerscheZahl: the 2nd amendment is actually about militias for community safety, kind of like a police. was then reinterpreted

Astrobytes: Yes, indeed

Astrobytes: and is now used to justify the kind of behaviour you saw a few months ago

Astrobytes: Half the world is regressing

WhatTrickeryIsThis: top 10 is goin wild

PatrickMcGinnisII: again, I have not so popular opinions ... if the military iindustrial complex can ship weapons to god knows where ... then I should be able to own a couple. Limit exports and I'll lconsider changing my miind

Astrobytes: that's a valid point but dare I say short-sighted reasoning

Astrobytes: if you can solve the issue closer to home you stand a slightly higher chance of impacting the other

IvesL: must it be 0 to 7 before passing admin or i can anticlockwise from 7 to 0 before passing admin?

PatrickMcGinnisII: well, it's proven that criminals will still get weapons to do criminal things. the level of deaathrate then becomes the issue. Sure, people survive knives and such ...I'll shut up. Did you know, death by cop and suicides are actually the biggest impact of guns?

Razovsky: u can't anticlockwise if you are bronze or above IvesL

IvesL: @Razovsky cuz i see some top plays go straight to 7 during first turn

Razovsky: well i dont understand every bot :P

Astrobytes: You've introduced 3 other topics we could talk about there Patrick :D We're not far from the same page. Anyway, lets leave it for now

IvesL: it reduces 1debt but if clockwise only, then he will immediately receives 2debts

IvesL: so many questions from this move

Razovsky: or he will give 2 bonuses away

Razovsky: think about this

Razovsky: less bonuses = less bonus integrated -> more op ?

Illedan: On your first move, you know your second hand draw

Illedan: You should not go to 7 if you don't draw 2 bonus on the next hand

IvesL: @Razovsky can you throw 2 bonuses instead of skills?

Razovsky: yeah you can

Razovsky: that is the point

PatrickMcGinnisII: OPPNENT_AUTOMATED isn't a thing is it?

IvesL: right cuz the descriptions highlighted skills card

IvesL: i will mark that down

PatrickMcGinnisII: how does silver boss beat me with so much debt

eulerscheZahl: one league higher i wonder the same

IvesL: and for daily routine, do you just get 1skill card (desk+1) or you actually get 2skills card from 1 move (current desk and desk+1)?

Default avatar.png KingWhitfield2011: hi guys:hand_splayed:

eulerscheZahl: always 1 card

eulerscheZahl: MOVE x x+1 => pick up from desk x+1

eulerscheZahl: x-1 also possible

IvesL: then whats so good about it

Illedan: And I'm testing random shit in Legend, and nothing seems to help

eulerscheZahl: you can get 3 integration cards in a row

ilgiocatore: and you can get card from occupied desk, not giving a card to the opponent

Nerchio: And I'm testing random shit in Gold, and nothing seems to help

Astrobytes: x +/- n where n == number of stacked dailies

eulerscheZahl: i'm waiting in gold and it doesn't help

Illedan: I'll send help

jacek: i made a boss for gold and it helped

eulerscheZahl: illestream for the rescue?

Illedan: ^^

Astrobytes: lol

IvesL: oh, so with daily routine, you can get cards backwards as well

IvesL: noted

jacek: and 7-0 0-7 as well

IvesL: what does 7-0 0-7 mean?

PatrickMcGinnisII: MOVE 0 7 or MOVE 7 0

Illedan: desk 7 and 0 are adjacent

BrunoFelthes: daily routine can stack!

Astrobytes: yes

BrunoFelthes: you can get the card 3 from dest 1

IvesL: sorry too dumb to understand, but what so special about 0-7 7-0, they still go through admin 8, isnt it?

BrunoFelthes: no

BrunoFelthes: yes

jacek: are you in bronze or higher?

Nerchio: future.location < now.location goes through admin desk

**WhatTrickeryIsThis massive feed to boss

WhatTrickeryIsThis: strong bananas injections

IvesL: @jacek just enter bronze

jacek: you need to give cards if going through admin desk

Default avatar.png KingWhitfield2011: what are we talking about :confused:

IvesL: ahh, so by "and 7-0 0-7 as well", you only mean you can get a card 7 from desk 0 as well if you have played card 2

IvesL: i understand now, was a bit confused

kovi: strong boss

jacek: :blush:

Sheeesh---: really strong

Sheeesh---: lol

Nerchio: strong randomness in top10*

jacek: you shall not pass

Sheeesh---: the gate keeper

Default avatar.png KingWhitfield2011: :laughing:

MSmits: yeah only a few passed after legend opened

eulerscheZahl: jacek having fun it seems

Sheeesh---: and it will stay like that i guess

Astrobytes: hence my world cup joke earlier euler

eulerscheZahl: i was only 0.13 away. now it's 1.6 :(

Default avatar.png KingWhitfield2011: that sucks

Nerchio: getting close

Default avatar.png KingWhitfield2011: but your doing good

Sheeesh---: imaging destroying the dreams of 184 human

jacek: aww

Default avatar.png KingWhitfield2011: :neutral_face:

Sheeesh---: feels good

j4at: Illedan congratz :p

Illedan: On what?

j4at: legend

j4at: oh did you just resubmit ?

j4at: and you were legend already ?

Astrobytes: ^

Illedan: I resubmitted in Legend yeah

Illedan: I tested some stupid stuff for fun, didn't work

j4at: Feeling dumb :)

Astrobytes: also, don't congratulate him until he's got a podium position :P

Default avatar.png US3RN4M3: I still dont get it, whats the meta here? time constraints allow for naive brute force simulations

Astrobytes: no pressure Illedan :D

Illedan: ezpz

Astrobytes: hehehe

Illedan: I'll just fix it

Astrobytes: naturally!

Illedan: Brb, making chicken while thinking about what magic number to test next

struct: maybe I need to start pretending the opponent exists

Default avatar.png KingWhitfield2011: :laughing:

Astrobytes: your bot is having existential issues?

Nerchio: kek

Default avatar.png KingWhitfield2011:

Default avatar.png miobyte: astrobytes and struct

Default avatar.png miobyte: are you guys employee of this platform?

Astrobytes: You again. No.

Default avatar.png miobyte: I think u r

Default avatar.png miobyte: bcoz u r 24/7 active here

jacek: impossibru

Default avatar.png miobyte: btw what's your occupation?

Astrobytes: I'm currently on sick leave but I was working in pharmaceutical regulatory affairs

Default avatar.png miobyte: :astonished:

Default avatar.png KingWhitfield2011: you being weird miobyte

Default avatar.png miobyte: why?

Default avatar.png KingWhitfield2011: never mind

Default avatar.png miobyte: I m sad

Default avatar.png KingWhitfield2011: sorry

Default avatar.png miobyte: no problem

Default avatar.png KingWhitfield2011: 😎

Default avatar.png miobyte: do u know about k8s king white?

Astrobytes: here we go again

Default avatar.png KingWhitfield2011: :laughing:

Default avatar.png miobyte: :neutral_face:

Nerchio: if you started learning when you first asked you would be a world expert on k8s already

Default avatar.png miobyte: :disappointed:

Default avatar.png miobyte: nerchio seems really following my messages ..mate?

Default avatar.png miobyte: :sunglasses:

Default avatar.png miobyte: nerchio, can you help me out with k8s?

Default avatar.png miobyte: I am stuck in one place

Default avatar.png miobyte: u sound like an expert

struct: How about you stopping flooding the chat?

Astrobytes: I think one can absorb your messages about k8s osmotically given the frequency of you posting about it

Illedan: Can we go back to contest discussions

Default avatar.png miobyte: @Nerchio

struct: next time it will be a ban

Illedan: Everyone should stop submitting in Legend, so I can have some propper statistics on my submits

Nerchio: anything i change now seems to be breaking my bot

Nerchio: or the submits are random idk

Illedan: submits are somewhat random

Illedan: Offline training dit not work

Astrobytes: offline training == asking the chicken for new magic numbers? :D

Illedan: Yeah, I found a new number on the serial number of the package

Astrobytes: hahaha

kovi: in game picture i see live training, no wonder you fail with offline

Illedan: :)

struct: how am I going to win 4.5 points...

eulerscheZahl: you don't, that's the problem

eulerscheZahl: delete your account. i might follow you on that journey

Astrobytes: :D

struct: I will get legend

Illedan: Can I have all your C# codes then?

eulerscheZahl: sure thing

eulerscheZahl: great sale

struct: I have no C# bots orry

struct: sorry*

Astrobytes: just make your cg repos public

Astrobytes: [solved]

ilgiocatore: gold boss really loves continuous integration and tech debt

Illedan: Then I would never get a job offer again

Astrobytes: :D

Default avatar.png KingWhitfield2011: hi struct

Default avatar.png KingWhitfield2011: sup guys

jacek: tech debt on jenkins?

Default avatar.png KingWhitfield2011: ?

eulerscheZahl: i8fb promoted

kovi: gratz

kovi: barely...but doing it solo

jacek: solo?

Astrobytes: wasn't pushed

Sheeesh---: congrats i8fbnkyw

StevenV: oh my silver :

Sheeesh---: it's like watching the stock market

Astrobytes: Far more interesting imo

Astrobytes: Paint drying is also far more interesting than watching stock markets.

Astrobytes: *Watching paint drying

Sheeesh---: i'm talking about the arena tho not the game

eulerscheZahl: Sheeesh--- is this a bug at 61?

Astrobytes: I'm also talking of the arena :)

eulerscheZahl: you release an application for 4 debt. you could take another one with only 2

jacek: and yet he won

Sheeesh---: oh

Sheeesh---: that means i can still improve my bot

Sheeesh---: it's not a bug

Illedan: ValGrowth?!

Sheeesh---: it's just my bad code

Astrobytes: Almost top 5 JP only :D

Astrobytes: wala saving the day

PatrickMcGinnisII: eulerscheZahl looks like it's doing a prevent on you releasing 15 because u have 1 automated CI

Astrobytes: ValGrowth almost getting a solid lead

Astrobytes: Psyho holding out well

Default avatar.png Huctor: hwo to change english version ?

Astrobytes: Get the 2022 edition of the dictionary?

eulerscheZahl: no PatrickMcGinnisII. even for blocking me there is a better option

PatrickMcGinnisII: well u have 2CI in inventory and enough bonus to cover...*shrug*

eulerscheZahl: if you want to block me, take app 27

Astrobytes: 6/8 top legend are JP, the 2 others are PL :D

PatrickMcGinnisII: u don't have inventory tho

Astrobytes: JP invasion :)

ValGrowth: The massive improvements I worked on over three days finally paid off :)

Rafarafa: so this gold boss is going to be the same until the end of the challenge or does he update?

eulerscheZahl: congrats

Astrobytes: looking good ValGrowth!

eulerscheZahl: the boss will stay as is

Rafarafa: damn, thanks

eulerscheZahl: evil boss, i know

jacek: :(

Astrobytes: oh come on jacek, you're loving it :D

eulerscheZahl: i don't blame you jacek, you didn't pitch it as the boss

eulerscheZahl: i blame illedan who was asked if jacek is ok

Illedan: ;)

Astrobytes: hahaha

Rafarafa: :(

jacek: huh

eulerscheZahl: let's see if this submit gets me anywhere. trying the opening book steal once again

eulerscheZahl: close to the 100k limit thanks to it

MSmits: wow

eulerscheZahl: i'm bowwow now

MSmits: it's unlike you to write so much code

jacek: why bowwow

Illedan: opening book steal?

Astrobytes: must be some opening book!

eulerscheZahl: i downloaded his last games and imported all moves that don't result in releasing the first app

Astrobytes: game-length opening book :smirk:

eulerscheZahl: if i find this exact state in my game, i'll do what he does

Astrobytes: lol

eulerscheZahl: and the submit is not looking good

Psyho: oh yeah, I want to steal opening moves as well

Nerchio: xd

Psyho: my early game sucks

Astrobytes: desperation has truly kicked in euler

eulerscheZahl: then i won't try to steal you

Illedan: yeah

kovi: its not trivial

kovi: if it doesnt match the behaviour of later eval/heuristics

PatrickMcGinnisII: ok, I'm blocking opp releases and still losing

Psyho: my opening as a 2nd player was to do MOVE 7 when opponent did MOVE 5 :D

eulerscheZahl: smart

Psyho: + 0.5 locally after fixing it at MOVE 2 :D

Illedan: WTF

Illedan: I only allow my bot to play 1 card during PLAY_CARD

Illedan: :D

eulerscheZahl: prevents timeouts

Illedan: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Illedan: This should be far better

Illedan: Else I'll be very sad

Sheeesh---: lost against the boss 4 times in a row

Astrobytes: if (!first) delete;

Sheeesh---: sorry guys cD

Sheeesh---: lol

eulerscheZahl: ban

eulerscheZahl: did you correct the choice of app to release?

Sheeesh---: yeah

Sheeesh---: didn't change that much

Default avatar.png Nikanameu: is this multiplayer after contest?

Sheeesh---: but thanks!!

struct: yes

Astrobytes: Yes Nikanameu

eulerscheZahl: because astro announced it

Astrobytes: I said so thus so mote it be

Astrobytes: (it was on discord)

eulerscheZahl: my bowow immitation is pretty lame. maybe only the first 2 or 3 turns then?

Illedan: But ValGrowth is far better?

Illedan: Which reminds me, I should go watch his replays

Astrobytes: euler doesn't care now, just yolo legend

Nerchio: instead of adding stuff I try to remove stuff now

Illedan: Scoring based on player score is my latest thing :D

Astrobytes: ...what was it before?

kovi: renesance of refactor / removing techdebt strat Nerchio?

MSmits: I know the feeling euler. I've been in contests before where I stayed just below the legend cut for the entire weekend, only beating gold midnight after sunday. Hope it goes better for you

Nerchio: I try to remove everything and see what works kovi :D more techdebt didnt work for me so far

jacek: you put techdebt in your code instead

Neumann: Are you allowed to play TRAINING if you have only 1 card available in DRAW/DISCARD ? And if so, what happens ?

Neumann: Same for CODING if DRAW/DISCARD is empty

eulerscheZahl: you can and you will get only 1 card

eulerscheZahl: coding will give you 1 extra action and no card

Neumann: Ok thanks

darkhorse64: sure ? it does empty discard

darkhorse64: ?

darkhorse64: it does not empty discard ?

eulerscheZahl: the question was: if there are no cards

struct: he did say 1 card right?

Astrobytes: "Same for CODING if DRAW/DISCARD is empty"

eulerscheZahl: 1 card for training 0 for coding

struct: ah

struct: ok

darkhorse64: sorry, I misread. You are right

struct: sorry

eulerscheZahl: and i'm incapable of stealing an opening via script. it just plays worse than without

Astrobytes: rest your brain a little, you'll come up with something better

eulerscheZahl: i'll just submit that thing that has a remote hope of getting pushed

eulerscheZahl: then go to bed

eulerscheZahl: and cry myself into sleep

eulerscheZahl: (the last wasn't serious)

Illedan: :hug:

PatrickMcGinnisII: my last change brought me up to Astrobytes, but still no topp silver or gold

Astrobytes: you'll get legend

Astrobytes: my best is 5 to 8th Patrick

eulerscheZahl: nice submit Illedan. is that with multiple plays?

Astrobytes: I'm refactoring so I can read my code better and tweaking

Illedan: Yeah

Astrobytes: nice. Significant difference :D

Illedan: Who would have thought

Illedan: -.-

Astrobytes: hehe, nevermind, you found it :)

Quidome: Did I get that correctly, discard is only shuffled back in during start of turn with the draw (if needed)?\

StevenV: so I reached the limit to test my bot :(

Astrobytes: if draw is called discard is shuggled into draw pile if draw pile is empty

Astrobytes: *shuffled

Quidome: aha I see, draw is called 4 times i suppose :)\

Quidome: I you play an card in an action can you use that same card with release?

Illedan: Next challenge, wall of Japanese :thinking:

eulerscheZahl: topcoder also has a lot of jp

Astrobytes: the JP guys have been going hardcore the last few CG contests :)

Psyho: atcoder is partially responsible for that

Astrobytes: that makes sense, good point

Psyho: half of people in marathons are japanese

Illedan: Ah, I can do my above Psyho tweet again now :D

Psyho: :D

Astrobytes: nice to see more 'cross-pollination' for want of a better term between platforms recently

Quidome: what does skill automation mean in the game?

struct: automated cards can be used to release apps

struct: its like a passive skill

Quidome: Sounds powerfull

Nerchio: eulerscheZahl opening book? :D

Nerchio: feed me

Nerchio: :rage:

Astrobytes: what's the boss at points-wise?

Nerchio: 31.10

Astrobytes: oof

eulerscheZahl: i disabled the book again

struct: one more night of suffering for me

struct: :p

Nerchio: euler can you beat down the boss


Rafarafa: is it possible to check how many of my loses are from starting second?

Astrobytes: you love it struct

PatrickMcGinnisII: 120 frame tie game

jacek: its not tie

eulerscheZahl: yes Rafarafa. just open all replays and count

struct: not really, I just want to get legend and be done with it, its probably harder than the spider challenge

Astrobytes: you won that Patrick

struct: Since I cant cheese with triple wind

Default avatar.png EDA1010: :joy: hello guys

Default avatar.png EDA1010: any advice on how to prepare for Amazon assessment

Default avatar.png EDA1010: I've one Can someone help this poor guy get a job

Astrobytes: good knife skills and rainforest experience

PatrickMcGinnisII: 10 debt is usually my endgame if I don't lose ... but way too many frames

Nerchio: euler can you go back to opening books

Default avatar.png EDA1010: :joy: Not that Amazon

Astrobytes: just joking EDA1010 ;)

Default avatar.png EDA1010: I know bro no hard feelings :grin:

eulerscheZahl: why Nerchio?

Nerchio: you beat me and I was good :(

eulerscheZahl: my opening book didn't even make it to top20

StevenV: around 4x in silver, gold is too far for me :*

Astrobytes: EDA1010: I don't have any Amazon-specific advice but be confident, stay calm and focus

jacek: and play the amazons

struct: solve it

Default avatar.png EDA1010: thank you guys , where I can find it if you may and sorry I'm somewhat new here , thank you in advance :grinning:

Astrobytes: struct and jacek you can both undo your handiwork and help this guy

jacek: :zipper_mouth:

Astrobytes: struct is a mod, he has to explain or there will be consequences :P


jacek: oO

Astrobytes: EXPLAIN not perpetuate the troll!

Default avatar.png EDA1010: thank you guys I wish you a good weekend

jacek: umm

struct: Yeah it should take about a weekend

Default avatar.png EDA1010: thx again if I did su

Default avatar.png EDA1010: succed I'll let you know

jacek: youd better practice on easy puzzles first


Astrobytes: is your assessment on here EDA1010?

Default avatar.png EDA1010: I'm doing so right now

Default avatar.png EDA1010: No they prefer Hackerrank

jacek: if amazon uses codingame platform for recruitment, the puzzle will be similar. input/output etc

Astrobytes: I see, I'd advise completing medium-difficulty puzzles at least either here or hackerrank

Sheeesh---: "You reached the limit of plays for a period of time." for more than 1 hours now

Default avatar.png EDA1010: thank you I will do my best at the end if things didn't go well at least I know I did my best

Astrobytes: You will know what to focus on after that EDA1010, interviews/assessments are great learning experiences too

Astrobytes: and good luck!

Astrobytes: mods these days :rolling_eyes: :P

struct: Just had an idea, I have something to work on tonight

struct: rank 1 incoming

struct: Maybe I cant win a phone since I'm a mod

Astrobytes: teaming up with Dapo?

struct: They don't want me slacking

struct: Obviously, I explained him the rules to save his time

struct: That's about all I did

Astrobytes: :D

StevenV: silver 12, gold, I am coming

jacek: :tada:

Astrobytes: don't bet on it StevenV lol

Nerchio: :rocket:

jacek: :head_bandage:

Astrobytes: bone Heide :+1:

Astrobytes: *bon

Nerchio: commenting out random lines of code in hopes it will work better - this is what peak coding looks like whether you like it or not

Astrobytes: I've been doing that all day

MSmits: yeah i hate this part

struct: I hate this since day -1

emh: my heuristics bot is still way better than my sim bot

emh: I gotta make a hybrid but it's a lot to port from Java to C++

Astrobytes: still a fair bit of time left

Illedan: My last 2 releases here :D

PatrickMcGinnisII: all I'm good for is pushing top silber higher

MSmits: push them all out PatrickMcGinnisII

Illedan: How is the bot MSmits? Any ideas for top 5?

MSmits: yeah i am working on something, but no luck so far.

Astrobytes: not giving advice to others I would guess :D

Illedan: SmitsiDrawCardsMax?

MSmits: I am not saying, just in case it works :P

Illedan: :)

Illedan: Good

struct: sorry Nerchi o

Illedan: At least keep quite when I'm off chat

Illedan: ^^

Astrobytes: hence my statement :P

MSmits: I did help out some people today, but only repeating the things i already shared on world chat

struct: people pm for advice?

Astrobytes: that doesn't count

MSmits: yea

struct: They only pm me to ask why they got kicked or banned

Astrobytes: no amusing money offers?

MSmits: no

Astrobytes: shame, they make great screenshots

MSmits: yea would be funny

Astrobytes: anyway, get coding

MSmits: mostly debugging now, figuring out why my bot is total crap with the new thing :)

MSmits: it's a lot of new, so... might be bug, or it just doesn't work

Illedan: Let me know if you need help

MSmits: :)

Astrobytes: :D

Illedan: I only accept shitcoins

MSmits: lol

Astrobytes: jobbycoin

struct: I hate brutaltester


struct: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Astrobytes: hate the bot not the tester

struct: at least my bot uses 0ms so its fast to test

Astrobytes: crashbot excels at time saving

Palmipedus: VilBoub je suis passe devant toi

Palmipedus: sorry wrong chat

Palmipedus: that's world :D

Astrobytes: c'est cool Palmipedus :D

Michael_Howard: HEyou have a British

Michael_Howard: flag. Is that so you can get the country prize :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

Palmipedus: haha, not really, I'm french but leave in the uk since 2014

Astrobytes: moi aussi Michael_Howard, doesn't mean we can't inulge

Astrobytes: *indulge

Astrobytes: Palmipedus: that brexit wasn't a problem?

Michael_Howard: Right. I'm doing the next challenge from Liechtenstein

Palmipedus: for the country definitely, for me personnaly no as I have the right to stay infinitly and if shit hit the fam more than now, I can still go back to France :D

Astrobytes: I envy you Palmipedus, I'm Scottish

Palmipedus: tbh, the only reason we stay at the moment is for the kids to learn english, for them to be really bilingual

Astrobytes: move to Bretagne, lots of expat-Brits there to teach :D

Palmipedus: Astrobytes god poor you, I always feel that the "union" is just a name

Astrobytes: It is Palmipedus. In my lifetime I wish to see Scottish and Irish freedom from the 'union'

Palmipedus: yeah but learn the culture and speak the english at school is what make you really bilingual (by expereeince)

Palmipedus: honeslty I think there is a way, it may be 'easier' for irish as thay have the GFA and just need a refenrendum

Palmipedus: Astrobytes for Scotland, even if you guys get a referendum and win, they will lie and do everything they can to keep you in

Astrobytes: true regarding 'cultural immersion' wrt language, wise move. If there was Irish unity and no SCots independence there would be a lot of trouble. The two are interconnected in a way that is kinda hard to see unless you're one or the other. And yes, you are correct there. Though this current English government are willing to tear up any agreements they feel like

Psyho: whoever is resubmitting in legend, pls keep doing it - it's clearly good for my ranking

Palmipedus: it's just my opinion but I think the Irish will be first thanks to Brexit and Scotland might follow depending how the Westmister plays it

Illedan: Np Psyho

Palmipedus: Psyho anyway there is a rerun in Legend at the end of the contest, so ranking in that league means not much

Illedan: But it's fun to be first!

Psyho: it's good for screenshots and tweets!

Illedan: ^

Psyho: the rerun is from scratch or from current position?

Illedan: Need to counter the tweet of ValGrowth

Illedan: Current position, but with Tan (or what that parameter in TrueSkill is called) reset

Astrobytes: Palmipedus: It's certainly possible yes. And don't forget the Welsh (and the Cornish, somewhat :P Breton separatists!) but Wastemonster (as we call Westminster) will never allow any of this without a long protracted fight, legal or not

Psyho: "I'm doing a major remodeling now, and the one I have now has 1700 lines, and the one I have is 3700 lines."

Psyho: 3700 O_O

struct: lol

Astrobytes: tau Illedan?

Illedan: I guess that is it

Psyho: yep, tau

Psyho: wait, you mean sigma?

Astrobytes: there's also mu

Astrobytes: so lets try to guess what Illedan meant

Illedan: Going into the forums, never really cared about that detail

Psyho: you don't reset tau, tau is that parameter that artificially bumps up sigma so that rankings dont stabilize

struct: rank 59, soon enough ill make

struct: But today I need to rest

Astrobytes: mu just introduces farm animals or cats depending on your pronunciation so don't worry about that param


Illedan: Maybe

Illedan: Nah

Illedan: There has to be a post from pb4 about this case

Astrobytes: what about br?

Illedan: He made his own calculations

Illedan: or are you talking about battle royale?

Astrobytes: something in that thread about the differences though?

Astrobytes: no bitrunner

Astrobytes: might be something in another contest thread, just clutching at pb4 straws

Psyho: I read the thread but it doesn't say what CG is using, right?

Illedan: No, I think you have to find the specific Contest thread, where this issue was discussed and the rerun details were created :P

Psyho: I'd imagine it was right after the contest where I really pissed off

Psyho: and refused to take the prize for the 3rd

Illedan: Which one?

Psyho: *where I was

Psyho: the arcade puzzle thing

struct: STC

Psyho: drop puzzle with combos

Astrobytes: STC yeah

struct: But what happened?

struct: ah the recalc

struct: It barely changes the rankings tbh

struct: Its like they give less point per match or something, idk how it works


Psyho: there was also one more problem that not related to rankings that was kind of nasty

Psyho: the VMs that were used were changed

struct: what could go wrong /s

Psyho: and eldidou used rdtsc for timing

Astrobytes: :P

Psyho: the new VMs had different clock speed and suddenly he timed out like 30% of the matches or so

Illedan: lol, that sucks

Psyho: (that happened right before the end of the contest and he didnt notice)

Astrobytes: madness

struct: last contest there was a clear cut winner it was SC21

Psyho: oh, but STC had big differences

struct: let me see


struct: oh yeah

Astrobytes: nice to see you back at least Psyho ;)

Psyho: for example I had like ~65% WR over eldidou (I remember I run a ton of games)

Psyho: the thing was that with the default tau and no other workarounds, essentially the last 50 games define the ranking

Astrobytes: brutal

Psyho: default tau is 0.083333 (and I believe that was the value used atm, for comparison I use 0.00025 locally)

struct: larger values impacts the elo more?

Psyho: larger values never stabilize the ranking

Psyho: i.e. no matter how many games you run, it never stabilizes

struct: ah I think I understand

Psyho: (you need tau>0 when new bots are introduced, but you can set tau=0 when you stop adding new bots)

Astrobytes: hence the earlier comment re Tau

Astrobytes: ie. tau should tend to 0 as the recalc progresses

Astrobytes: *calc not recalc

Astrobytes: great that all this is discussable openly when CG is in its twilight years :(

Default avatar.png jakeHaln: Hello guys

Astrobytes: CG community I mean, not CG, it's fine

Psyho: oh, you CG community is dying?

Psyho: doesnt contest have a ton of participants?

Astrobytes: For a while now yeah.

Astrobytes: Yeah but there's always been a strong core base, even that's diminishing

Psyho: wasnt Spring Challenge 2022 the largest contest so far?

Astrobytes: The reduced contest count per year, no more community-made contests

Psyho: ah ok

Psyho: the larger it gets, to more it costs :(

Astrobytes: It was yeah, re 2022 Spring

Psyho: *the more

Astrobytes: Yeah, but there's some hope I guess. This contest is made by longtime members who work for SG, and got SG to sponsor it

Astrobytes: So that might be some kind of beacon of light

Astrobytes: The board game community won't die, people make games a lot for just community. The lack of chat -> moving to discord will kill a bit of that I fear

Psyho: I like discord

Psyho: isn't it just the problem with mentality

Psyho: i.e. that's fine to shit talk here, but somehow not on discord

aCat: because this chat is always near

Astrobytes: I don't mind it either, the chat here is quite immediate and nice, I can do other things on my other monitor, but I understand people who don't wanna switch

aCat: and you watch CG IDE or replays at the same time

aCat: Discord is yet another app

Astrobytes: yeah that's it aCat

struct: Can always try to ask them to not remove it

Illedan: Yeah, Discord will kill the chatting :(

struct: :p

aCat: I use it all the time but that's switching context too much for CG

Illedan: We need low key shit-chat to keep the contest spirit up

aCat: :+1:

Psyho: but discrod works well on mobile

Astrobytes: I'm always on discord but I can't leave a channel open just for CG all the time

struct: It would be nice to at least have this chat during contests

Psyho: so you can keep up with your shit talking while going out for a walk

Astrobytes: I don't use internet things on my phone ;)

struct: I need win this phone to join discord

struct: Not looking good atm

Astrobytes: :D

aCat: Illedan how many sims you have?

aCat: You have sims till endgame?

struct: yesterday he had100

Astrobytes: 1 sim, probably a lot of playouts though :P

Psyho: so probably 50 now

aCat: Im asking about today

aCat: I have like 500 :(

struct: 500 until end?

YurkovAS: 1sim = 1 move?

Illedan: 700

aCat: y

BrunoFelthes: Monte Carlo sim?

Psyho: I think I have 2k (at the start)

YurkovAS: i'm have 50-60k sims

Astrobytes: 1 sim for me == working sim

Psyho: but rollouts are really dumb

Illedan: My type of sim :)

Psyho: *buy my

struct: YurkovAS MCTS?

Illedan: 50-60k?!

Psyho: I swear this chat has autocorrect

aCat: 50-60k!?

Illedan: What is a sim?

Astrobytes: lol Psyho

YurkovAS: 50-60k sims 1sim = 1 move

Illedan: and 1 sim = 1 play card?

struct: oh I have 200k with beam

aCat: root of the game until end of the game

Illedan: 1 move + give + throw + play + release = 5?

struct: 1 move = 1 action

Psyho: oh, but with rollouts/monte carlo, you need heuristic

Illedan: I have 10-20k of those

YurkovAS: yes = 5

Psyho: so the bottleneck is not the sim, but the logic for moves

Illedan: Then ok

BrunoFelthes: i have 4k sims until the end, and my results are pure garbage

Illedan: I have 700 rollouts

aCat: you give mo hepe Ille

struct: Do you sim opponent Illedan? no need to answer

aCat: I don't have to be so fast as those crazy cpps ^^'

Illedan: sure

Illedan: Some of the time

Illedan: The rest I put him in a corner to cry

Psyho: in rollouts you have to, otherwise it defeats the purpose

struct: Tomorrow Im going to try mcts with opponent, it might be a waste of time but w/e

Astrobytes: did you try SP?

struct: no

struct: I tried beam, chokudai, synced beam

struct: all failed

struct: Maybe I had a bug

Psyho: can we bet on whether its going to turn to be a waste of time?

struct: sure

Astrobytes: someone make one of those poll things

Psyho: lemme quickly mint some psyhocoins

struct: It wont be a lot of time since I can reuse it from other multis

Astrobytes: psyhocoins :D

Astrobytes: when was synced beam a thing btw struct? on cg

struct: spring challenge 21

aCat: trees

Astrobytes: I missed the synced part

Astrobytes: :D

Psyho: made the poll:

struct: :)

struct: I voted

Astrobytes: heh heh heh

Psyho: never heard of synced beam

Psyho: (but I'm terrible with knowing names for algorithms)

DomiKo: that isn't really the name

MSmits: isn't that a ghostbuster thing

Psyho: and I believe "chokudai" search is known as beam stack search?

struct: yeah probably coined by CG

MSmits: synced beams?

Illedan: gn

Astrobytes: gn Ille

MSmits: gn

Astrobytes: yes Psyho, re Chokudai

Psyho: gn

struct: gn

Psyho: I find it weird to have an algorithm named after you just because you have a lot of followers on twitter

struct: Since the game had days and you could output multiple actions per turn you added the finished states for that day to a diferent stack

Astrobytes: DomiKo: what's the proper name?

struct: but kept adding the unfinished to the next states

DomiKo: "multiple actions" you mean different number of actions

Astrobytes: Psyho: MSmits has one named after him because he named it so :D

DomiKo: Astrobytes I don't think there is a name for it

struct: Let me search in the forum

Psyho: vanity!

struct: maybe someone explains it ebetter

MSmits: indeed

Astrobytes: hehehe

Astrobytes: what was agreed on in the end via Dapo?

Psyho: heh, I did popularized few weird algorithms on topcoder, but never thought about naming them

Astrobytes: UCT Forest, thatos the one

Psyho: like, the simulated annealing most people use on TC

MSmits: ye

Psyho: is not simulated annealing

MSmits: what do they use?

Astrobytes: another hc variant presumably

struct: I guess euler explains it better


Psyho: SA is defined by using double() < exp(result_delta / temp)

struct: Its quite simple to understand it if you already know beam

Psyho: as acceptance

Astrobytes: that's how I do SA

Astrobytes: maybe that's why mines never works right on TC

Astrobytes: :P

Psyho: it's good in general case, but not when hyperoptimizing for 10s execution time

Astrobytes: yeah admittedly it's best used as a partial search

Psyho: new_score > old_score + rng() * temp is usually better

emh: both my bots are 85k.. if I merge them I guess I might have a problem

emh: though there should be a good amount of reuse

struct: 85k chars?

emh: ls -alh

Astrobytes: the weird things I have done to that calculation...

emh: so yes

BrunoFelthes: what is best at the start of the game 2 bonus or 1 less td?

Astrobytes: yes

Psyho: 2 bonus in general

Psyho: but it's really tricky

Psyho: the "perfect play" is to get a lot of cards, so that you build all of your last 3-4 apps in a single shuffle

Psyho: so that your debt cards wont ever get shuffled into draw pile

struct: interesting

Psyho: 2 bonus drastically helps with that because it makes your deck larger

Psyho: and so, it gives you more time/turns to achieve that

BrunoFelthes: hummm

struct: its time to rest for me, gn everyone

emh: gn struct

Astrobytes: gn

MSmits: gn

PatrickMcGinnisII: BrunoFelthes imo what is best is an ARCH study or a CONT int. depending on what is in your hand, if your opponent is sitting on/near it, etc.

PatrickMcGinnisII: 40 in silver, I'm done...don't want to eval sims

struct: cant sleep oh well

Lysk: might as well code then ;)

struct: A bit tired, but I will

Lysk: what would be a good timer to use in python?

oidrissi: If someone is interested in showing me their implementation of a simulation :joy: :joy: I would be very grateful

struct: That sounds like a great idea


oidrissi: Didn't get to see that, expired

eulerscheZahl: no promotion popup on login. sad

struct: euler keep your hopes up

struct: I'm sure you will manage to get legend

eulerscheZahl: of course. that's the law

struct: Even I still have hope to get legend

eulerscheZahl: or delete

struct: why not

eulerscheZahl: oh, your profile even says top50 or delete

eulerscheZahl: top50 might even be easier than legend

Dapps: made many improvements since getting up to gold

Dapps: they've all added up to me 2nd last in gold

struct: hard to see what improvements are here

struct: at least for me

BrunoFelthes: i'm justing running out of ideas... my last improvement was a giant open book

BrunoFelthes: that made my code too large

struct: yeap im also running out but I have to make a mcts to know the bet result

BrunoFelthes: more than 1 turn? or just 1?

struct: more

struct: but no rollout

BrunoFelthes: i think that it is too late to start another simulator

struct: probably yeah

struct: There is something we are missing

struct: I just don't know what

BrunoFelthes: I know... my simulator is just a garbage

struct: Im sure its doable to write a sim from scratch

struct: You know the full rules now

struct: It was hard at the start because we had no idea what the rules were

BrunoFelthes: I should do something like the algo used at fall challenge 2020...

BrunoFelthes: the one that we built potions

struct: what did you use?

struct: beam search?

BrunoFelthes: yeah...

BrunoFelthes: stacked beam search

BrunoFelthes: open book, with a stacked beam search

BrunoFelthes: this game has a clear distinct 3 phases... built bonus, built 4 points with low TD, end the game with luck...

Westicles: didn't pysho stream his approach? just do that

Westicles: or is it 8 hours of mumbling and typing sounds?