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Default avatar.png Mengshang: Hello?

antiwonto: [auto] Hey Mengshang, here is a :taco: for loggin in today while it is quiet. You now have 1 tacos

Default avatar.png Mengshang: That is good.

jacek: :tada:

AshamanCooper: If you are driven this is a great place to learn to code. I started two months ago and I am 406 in the green circle comp.

AshamanCooper: But you still need to use more than one resource.

Default avatar.png Mengshang: You are good

Default avatar.png Mengshang: I am Chinese.When I want to code , I must to translate:joy:

therealbeef: the IDE supports unicode, so you could have variable and function names in chinese I suppose ;-)

Default avatar.png rachelktyjohnson: Hi everyone! I've just come back to Codeingame after a LONG hiatus. So much has changed!

Tien118: antiwonto, what can you do?

jacek: right into the contest

AshamanCooper: What has changed? that would be interesting.

Default avatar.png Mengshang: Variable or function in Chinese... Bad thing!

AshamanCooper: Hard to camelCase

Westicles: Jeez, I've got this weirdo social justice dingbat rejecting by clash three times now because kissing girls offends it

Westicles: *my

Clams: :laughing:

Westicles: :tada:

Default avatar.png Mengshang: although my English not well,but I try my best to name function or var , class in English.You can see, there are many grammar mistake in this sentence,I am a junior high school student in China

Default avatar.png Mengshang: :joy:

MSmits: these are not the same are they?

MSmits: a = b + c? d : e; a = b + (c? d: e);

Default avatar.png rachelktyjohnson: the interface has changed a lot. there were a solid 6 games to play around with back then

MSmits: crap emote

MSmits: a = b + c? d : e; a = b + (c? d : e);

Default avatar.png Mengshang: priority

MSmits: yes so they are different?

Default avatar.png Mengshang: You can input the text and try to run

MSmits: lazy

Default avatar.png Mengshang: Can you read what I'm saying?

MSmits: yeah

Default avatar.png Mengshang: I'm worried that foreigners won't be able to read my "Chinese English"

Default avatar.png Mengshang: :joy:

MSmits: no no it's fine

Westicles: I bit Mengshang kisses lots of girls

MSmits: I am was just wondering if i gave myself a horrible bug

Default avatar.png Mengshang: Ok I copy it

Westicles: *bet

MSmits: and it seems like i did, with that ternary assignment

Default avatar.png Mengshang: ...

Default avatar.png Mengshang: I just finished my 16th birthday

MSmits: grats

Default avatar.png Mengshang: okok,I try to run it in vs

Westicles: Although joint probability might be too tough for a clash anyhow, not sure

Default avatar.png Mengshang: int a, b = 20, c = 30, d = 40,e=50;

Default avatar.png Mengshang: output:

Default avatar.png Mengshang: 40 60

Default avatar.png Mengshang: a = b + c ? d : e; std::cout << a << std::endl; a = b + (c ? d : e); std::cout << a << std::endl;

MSmits: nice one, thanks =)

Default avatar.png Mengshang: You are welcome

Default avatar.png Mengshang: Have you ever known about China's development?

MSmits: not sure what you mean

Default avatar.png Mengshang: I mean, in your eyes, how developed China is now

Westicles: I used to travel to Shenzhen back in the wild early days, great times

MSmits: I am guessing it depends a lot on what part of the country you look at

Default avatar.png Mengshang: synthesis

Default avatar.png Mengshang: 刷题去

GroutchKeu: o/

Default avatar.png jbiz: on code clash, frequently me and other players get less than 100%, despite getting 100% in the tests before submission. why?

Default avatar.png anthonyashco: They use different tests with possibly different edge cases for final scoring.

Default avatar.png anthonyashco: It prevents players from hard-coding answers for difficult edge cases.

Default avatar.png jbiz: perhaps but i'm pretty sure at least some of them were fool proof.

Default avatar.png jbiz: this last test literally everyone got 50%.

Default avatar.png anthonyashco: It's certainly possible there are errors, since the tests were written by humans. If you think there's a real error in the test cases I think you can notify people.

Default avatar.png anthonyashco: However, if it's happening frequently, I'd suspect there are surprising edge cases that aren't being handled.

Default avatar.png jbiz: alright, i'll report after checking it if it happens again

Default avatar.png anthonyashco: They don't always give you what the validators are, but you might be able to deduce what's missing by the validator's name.

Default avatar.png anthonyashco: Otherwise, you can click the forum button to discuss your findings.

Default avatar.png miobyte: can anyone help me with k8s?

MSmits: lol i read that as help me with kids

derjack: :upside_down:

MSmits: i am sitting here with a class of 29, so it's kind of applicable :P

Westicles: summer school? here only the ones who fail something have to do that

eulerscheZahl: here summer break only starts in August

derjack: w00t

Westicles: well, you guys have to learn eight languages just to get around your own time zone

MSmits: no it's the last class of the year for these

MSmits: next week is testweek

MSmits: and then there are 2 more weeks of almost nothing

MSmits: class of the schoolyear i mean

Westicles: Is 220 good enough for gold? That hint from yesterday really worked

MSmits: hmm

MSmits: i dont think so

MSmits: i guess 100

MSmits: silver is usually a little less than half of bronze and gold is 10% of silver or so, correct me if i am wrong eulerscheZahl

MSmits: 20% of silver i mean

eulerscheZahl: 20% sounds about right

eulerscheZahl: did you get the brutaltester running yesterday?

MSmits: nah i got distracted

MSmits: I keep finding bugs

MSmits: most of my bot improvements are bugfixes :P

MSmits: I guess this is what happens when you churn out 1k lines of code in 2 days to get a sim working asap

Nerchio: damn

Nerchio: makes me think I have poor man's sim if I have 1k lines in java and I didn't try to keep it low

MSmits: the difference is probably in the eval

MSmits: you can have a bad bot with a perfect sim and a poor eval. And your bot is not bad

Nerchio: yeah it's starting to get difficult to change eval to make it better

Nerchio: yesterday I did it for 2h to keep up with top20

MSmits: same

MSmits: it's stops being fun when you run out of new ideas for eval features

MSmits: just param fitting is boring

Nerchio: true I usually give up after a little while of param fitting but I am not in that spot here yet

MSmits: same

MSmits: I keep having to refit params after i fix bugs

Default avatar.png TheInitialB: hello

Default avatar.png TheInitialB: :wave:

MSmits: hi

TINOUAINANI: good morning

TINOUAINANI: question: what happens if you use CODING and afterward you use TRAINING, do you still have one card to play or two?

darkhorse64: You should get two. I think the game summary gives this information

TINOUAINANI: ok thanks

TINOUAINANI: guys is there a way to print to console without a limit, I want to see all my stderr? (c++)

Leeward: Not within the site, but you can encode it and then decode it elsewhere

TINOUAINANI: ok thanks

eulerscheZahl: my bot sucks. even importing the opening from over 200 replays of the duck didn't help :(

Nerchio: damn some next level strats eulerscheZahl

eulerscheZahl: next level fail

Nerchio: i submitted 3 times in a row and ended #15 every time

eulerscheZahl: at least the replays were easy to parse, thanks to the excessive game summary

Nerchio: my bot is consistently bad

eulerscheZahl: currently i would be happy about your rank

Nerchio: problem is i dont exactly know how to fix it

derjack: write better bot [solved]

eulerscheZahl: let's try not to give cards to the opponent that often

Nerchio: i give away cards quite often but usually its connected with a good move

eulerscheZahl: i do it even for bad moves

Leeward: I have a question about Code4Life if anybody has played that...

Leeward: I'm currently in Wood 1. I am able to collect a sample that has a cost of more than 10 molecules total but I cannot carry more than 10 at a time. The way the lab works right now I can only hand in a sample along with the entire cost to get the points. Is there a way to "pay in instalments" or can I simply not process those samples right now?

eulerscheZahl: there are experience points for completing samples. then you need one molecule of that type less

Leeward: I don't think I can use expertise yet, it's listed under the "What is in store for me in the higher leagues?" section.

eulerscheZahl: oh, then you have to wait and not take those samples yes

eulerscheZahl: yet

Leeward: I thought so, thanks

Leeward: About to get promoted to next league though so moot point now lol

derjack: :tada:

Westicles: so, about hardcoded opening moves

Ftyghi: hi

PrimeDecay: Hi guys!!!

eulerscheZahl: don't waste your time with that Westicles, doesn't work

Westicles: well, it is 300 places better than first move

Psyho: I'd say hardcoding is still useful

geppoz: if (cardTaken.isGoodActionBonus() && action.getThirdCardType() != CardType.BONUS) {

           gameSummaryManager.addSemiUselessTaskPrioritization(player, action.getThirdCardType());

eulerscheZahl: maybe taking 200 replays from the duck wasn't enough them. or i'm too picky and it's just about opponent close vs not close (without looking at the exact location)

geppoz: what does it means that in the taskPrioritization class ?

geppoz: "SemiUselessTaskPrioritization" ? :D

Nerchio: I don't think its the opening that gets him first place euler

eulerscheZahl: get a bonus instead of a skill card

eulerscheZahl: it's surely better than my opening

eulerscheZahl: but i still have the code in place to steal from someone else

Psyho: I got a massive boost my disabling releasing in the first two turns :D

Psyho: *by

Psyho: my sim likes to hoard debt cards

eulerscheZahl: will you keep going here on CG? topcoder marathon starts this evening

eulerscheZahl: and you are in a good position for TCO

Psyho: but the big problem with such strategy (apart for huge variance, so that 200 games is not enough to stabilize the ranking) is that you give your opponent easy time of selecting the apps that block your progress

Psyho: I'm switching to marathon today, I only have 100 points (just did a single marathon) and I probably need to win again in order to qualify for the TCO

eulerscheZahl: 2nd or 3rd might be enough. but 1st will surely help

eulerscheZahl: in any case: good luck with TCO

eulerscheZahl: it's "The Encore" in Boston this year

Psyho: I have to be above tanzaku & Jaco + few other people can snipe my spot

Nerchio: what kind of tasks they have in there

Psyho: optimization

Psyho: it's mostly weird heuristics, local search (simulated annealing), some pathfinding (beam search mostly)

Darleanow: Can we move backwards ?

Darleanow: and can we cross player eg p1 is on 2 and p2 is on 3, can i move 4 ?

eulerscheZahl: the last 3 tasks:

eulerscheZahl: you can even go to the same desk as your opponent, Darleanow

eulerscheZahl: but also walk by

Darleanow: okay !

Darleanow: but we an't move backwards right !

Darleanow: Also, after submit application, can i change the way i move, eg going backwards ? and can i do it initially ?

Darleanow: sorry for the spam - -'

eulerscheZahl: you can go anywhere except yto your current location

struct: hi

eulerscheZahl: huhu

MSmits: no

MSmits: cant go backwards, sorry scroll

jacek: :upside_down:

aangairbender: bug with not going to PLAY_CARD phase after TRAINING still exists? I've just met it

Nerchio: it was fixed

kovi: phase is still missing if there is no useable card

aangairbender: I guess referee just automatically sees that no action can be played so he skips

aangairbender: okay, thank you

kovi: yes

Nerchio: yep

aangairbender: viewer was just showing this in a weird way (I didnt see card I got after training)

PiterYeh: aangairbender if your turn is over, all your cards are discarder and what you see in the viewer is the hand you will have in your next turn

PiterYeh: you can see which cards "training" got you by reading the referee output

aangairbender: okay, thanks for help

struct: Was forgetting to remove training card from my hand when playing it

struct: might explain the million of states I was getting

struct: :p

jzen: Is the bonus card considered a skill card?

aangairbender: jzen yes

jzen: Thanks

struct: in what aspect?

struct: For me a skill card is a card you can use during play phase

BrunoFelthes: can i use the task prioritisation card acquired at the same turn?

struct: yes

jzen: Yeah, I thought so too, but then I was looking at throw. It says you can throw a skill card from your hand, but looking at source that includes the bonus card

geppoz: bonus cards can be used for THROW, for GIVE, and in TASK_PRIO

geppoz: and in CONT_INT

struct: yes you can throw bonus

struct: you only cant throw/give technical debt cards

MSmits: struct, also remove the coding card from your hand when coding

Default avatar.png elliotdingalberriesmells: this is a dead game icl

Default avatar.png elliotdingalberriesmells: all of yous are sad

Default avatar.png **Rodrigo_the_coder slaps /slap around a bit with a large fishbot

MSmits: I don't feel sad?

Astrobytes: it's like when they come in and call us sad nerds. We're happy nerds!

Default avatar.png putibuzu: Agreed :D

eulerscheZahl: nerds in cage housing. that's how we like it

Astrobytes: lol

struct: I finally saw the video euler

struct: I knew it was bad, but no idea that the industry was that bad

Astrobytes: you don't remember re curse regaling us with tales from the industry?

eulerscheZahl: he manages to entertain us and make us sad at the same time

struct: not really astro

eulerscheZahl: recurse even linked an article basically telling the same as we saw in the video

struct: Maybe I wasn't online

eulerscheZahl: and there's the ping

struct: not online

Astrobytes: he used to talk about it a lot tbh, ubisoft being one of the better places to work it seems

Default avatar.png putibuzu: what video if I may ask?


Default avatar.png putibuzu: thanks :)

eulerscheZahl: beat me, i had to search it again

eulerscheZahl: oh, btw:

eulerscheZahl: Hi,

You have used 80% of your 550 free dyno hours for June 2022. The following steps can help you keep your app running smoothly.

eulerscheZahl: website will go down again

Astrobytes: it's a popular site nowadays

eulerscheZahl: "Get more free dyno hours per month Simply verify your account with a credit card and receive an additional 450 free dyno hours per month." sounds simple. but i don't have a credit card

eulerscheZahl: and most visits are from search engines

Astrobytes: really?

Astrobytes: (re search engines)

eulerscheZahl: what even is a SemrushBot?

eulerscheZahl: bingbot, pedalbot, googlebot, ...

eulerscheZahl: so many of them

Astrobytes: SemrushBot is the search bot software that Semrush sends out to discover and collect new and updated web data.

Astrobytes: Data collected by SemrushBot is used for: the public backlink search engine index maintained as a dedicated tool called Backlink Analytics (webgraph of links)

Astrobytes: TIL. I thought it was a bot that was kind of in a hurry but not overly so.

eulerscheZahl: i guess i go up a bit in website ranking. then i run out of dynos and drop again because i'm offline

eulerscheZahl: can't be good for your page rank to have an error page

Astrobytes: indeed

Default avatar.png Haikooo: someone can explain me what is readline(), In internet I just find docs for Node.js but i'm using for JS

eulerscheZahl: there is no readline actually, codingame wrote their own to support JS on the website

eulerscheZahl: gives you a line from stdin

Default avatar.png Haikooo: ok so readline() it's similar like what ?

Default avatar.png Haikooo: what is the goal of this function

struct: it reads an input line

Astrobytes: to read a line from stdin as he said.

eulerscheZahl: are you familiar with console applications? that black window with text only

Default avatar.png Haikooo: okay thx

Miki09: can task priorization be used on itself?

Astrobytes: if you have more than one I think so

Miki09: ok thx

Default avatar.png 3ssila_mli7a: What is the name of the algorithme that we have to use in the practice: Death First Search - Episode 1

Astrobytes: :D

Astrobytes: Try replacing a letter in 'Death'

Default avatar.png 3ssila_mli7a: Depth First Search ? is this an algorithm, sorry I am new to this

Astrobytes: or actually is it? I think it's Breadth First Search actually, my bad

Astrobytes: I think the second one involves Depth First

Default avatar.png 3ssila_mli7a: Breadth First Search it is

Default avatar.png 3ssila_mli7a: I'll try n search for it

Astrobytes: if it's new to you, I strongly suggest this site:

Default avatar.png 3ssila_mli7a: To see what it s like

Astrobytes: Very clear explanations

Default avatar.png 3ssila_mli7a: Oh, thank you very much I'll take a look at it

Astrobytes: no problem, hope it helps

Astrobytes: how many was that to gold league? 100?

eulerscheZahl: oh, gold

struct: a bit more

struct: I was promoted and was around 110

struct: 109

struct: I was

Dapps: whoops.. .shouldn't have just submitted

Astrobytes: ah ok

Miki09: Dapps me too :-)

BrunoFelthes: 74 now

eulerscheZahl: for gold opening it's fine. the league isn't big enough to crash the server

struct: ah no

struct: I wasnt promoted

struct: I just got the message the league opened

eulerscheZahl: 100% tie rate so far

Astrobytes: ah

eulerscheZahl: and 2 more

Dapps: any way to tell which AI became boss? or just if they have any output

Astrobytes: must have been 80-90 then

eulerscheZahl: the only way is to play boss vs itself and do the same with some players in that range

Michael_Howard: Only 74 of us by the looks of it.

Miki09: the servers are slowwwwwwww

struct: legend will be pretty hard

Astrobytes: a few more still to promote Michael_Howard

Astrobytes: ~12 currently

eulerscheZahl: 19 matches (38 in total) and all draws. that's unlikely to happen

struct: well its the same problem that uttt has

Astrobytes: wow

struct: 1st player will always almost win

Astrobytes: yeah it's quite skewed

eulerscheZahl: but seriously: 22 mirrored matches now. all ties

eulerscheZahl: and it just keeps going

wlesavo: eulerscheZahl look inside

eulerscheZahl: crashes :D

wlesavo: first player timeouts everytime

mikmak: yes the input are probably incorrect

Astrobytes: lol whaaay

Astrobytes: or whaaat

kovi: match# cut down for rerun i guess

eulerscheZahl: so player 2 wins

Miki09: zach_lee probably found a way to fix it

Miki09: and he wins all the time

wlesavo: and why i have fr rules now? :smiley:


eulerscheZahl: Unhandled exception. System.FormatException: Input string was not in a correct format. at System.Number.ThrowOverflowOrFormatException at System.Number.ParseInt32 at System.Int32.Parse

therealbeef: something is weird, my bots prediction of the next game phase is wrong all the time

Astrobytes: I thiiink someone should report this

eulerscheZahl: cardLocationsCount is gone?

therealbeef: in silver it always matched the referee

eulerscheZahl: i expect a number and get: HAND 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 1

wlesavo: what a way to fix p1 advantage :grinning:

Astrobytes: :D

eulerscheZahl: [SG]Sebastien did you touch the referee?

BrunoFelthes: the winner of this contest will be defined by luck.. who win two mach first, will win more points...

Astrobytes: perhaps it's reverted to another version

Michael_Howard: Is it normal to go way up in rank after promotion?

Michael_Howard: I've gone from 70s to 30s.

eulerscheZahl: they should do that for the final rerun to see how bulletproof our codes are

eulerscheZahl: i'm 12th \o/

eulerscheZahl: 11th

wlesavo: Michael_Howard yes game is broken

wlesavo: im 8 :smiley:

eulerscheZahl: and top3 adapted to the new format already

eulerscheZahl: top4 probably

BrunoFelthes: what new format?

Michael_Howard: wlesavo but why is it broken in my favour in Gold? :upside_down:

eulerscheZahl: changed input format. probably by mistake

Astrobytes: someone in gold report it on discord please

BrunoFelthes: what changed in input?

Nerchio: wait what happened

eulerscheZahl: they don't give cardLocationCount anymore

therealbeef: tooltip all weird too

Nerchio: why is my description in french :D

eulerscheZahl: best guess: older version of the game

eulerscheZahl: probably all the bugs are back as well

eulerscheZahl: right, french as well

eulerscheZahl: someone ping staff

Nerchio: @staff hello

Miki09: First time ever in my life I beated Neumann

Michael_Howard: I'm ahead of kovi! Stop the count!

[SG]Sebastien: eulerscheZahl : no modification on referee since monday's fixes

Astrobytes: reported in Bug Report EVEN THOUGH IM NOT IN GOLD

eulerscheZahl: then something went wrong with automated league opening

wlesavo: hehe time to get top1

eulerscheZahl: with thibaud ping?

Astrobytes: he's offline

Nerchio: i want a refund

Michael_Howard: Ahead of eulerscheZahl!! :laughing:

eulerscheZahl: [CG]Thibaud is online here

Michael_Howard: Whatever the bug is I like it

eulerscheZahl: ping. game reverted to a prior version on gold opening (supposedly)

Astrobytes: that's my theory

Default avatar.png jod_uran: h

Astrobytes: can't think of anything else

wlesavo: best ranking improove in history by changing a single constant


eulerscheZahl: always 6 instead of dynamic?

wlesavo: yes =)

eulerscheZahl: i'll just want for CG

kovi: french description?

eulerscheZahl: that's the only thing you notice?

kovi: gold

eulerscheZahl: is silver still working as expected?

Miki09: yes

eulerscheZahl: all bots crashing because of changed input format

eulerscheZahl: astro reported it already

Astrobytes: I don't know if anyone's working on it yet, no indication, but I presume they know by now

eulerscheZahl: always RANDOM can bring you in top10 again

[SG]Sebastien: I tried to ping Thibaud, but no answer yet

eulerscheZahl: no biggie, they will find out

Astrobytes: should I ping Julien?

eulerscheZahl: him or Saiksy

eulerscheZahl: thibaud would do the same

Astrobytes: I've pinged Julien

wlesavo: still haven't lost a single game out of 70, i guess top is not adopted euler

eulerscheZahl: take your screenshot

Nerchio: euler we are at the bottom of the league, maybe we shouldnt be playing games with random draw

ilgiocatore: almost there

ilgiocatore: i want to see the match where both players see 6 cards

Default avatar.png Dili: hi

Default avatar.png Dili: dfa

Default avatar.png Dili: adf

Default avatar.png Dili: dsf

struct: stop

Illedan: oooh, gold

square1001: I learned that AI says "IA" in French now

Nerchio: your bot is crashing Illedan

eulerscheZahl: you missed the funny part Illedan

Astrobytes: oui, c'est l'intelligence artificielle square1001

Illedan: wtf?

Illedan: What is funny?

eulerscheZahl: the crashing

eulerscheZahl: input changed. french statement

Illedan: I see it now

Illedan: LOL

Illedan: Did you ping staff on discord?

Astrobytes: Yeah

eulerscheZahl: astro pinged julien

Illedan: Did it work?

Astrobytes: No response as of yet

eulerscheZahl: do you see any improvements?

eulerscheZahl: just submit a RANDOM bot

[SG]Sebastien: based on a replay I saw, µI confirm this is an old version of the game

Illedan: Meh

Illedan: And I had 10 min to try something

Astrobytes: I used Bug Report Illedan

eulerscheZahl: what is bug report?

Astrobytes: [SG]Sebastien theory confirmed :tada:

Astrobytes: the channel on the discord euler

eulerscheZahl: you are the sharpest tool in the box

eulerscheZahl: ah, that # :bug: bug-report

Astrobytes: lol, yes

ilgiocatore: yaay i managed to climb before a bugfix, took my screenshot and now i can rest

eulerscheZahl: this doesn't count

wlesavo: in old version daily worked only in one direction, inrteresting

wlesavo: i think that is kind of more balanced

Astrobytes: alright, Julien has seen the message "oh dear"

Miki09: can task priorization throw itself away?

Astrobytes: only if you have more than one, that's what I meant earlier Miki09

Astrobytes: (that's what I thought you were asking)

Miki09: thank you. I didnt know if I formulated the question correctly

eulerscheZahl: interesting experiment: how fast will the leaderboard stabilize again without a full resubmit? just slowly bubbling up

Astrobytes: no worries :)

Astrobytes: I'm almost certain they'll do a full resubmit euler

Michael_Howard: eulerscheZahl in O(n2)

Michael_Howard: O(n²)

eulerscheZahl: n² take a square

eulerscheZahl: ¹³⁴⁵⁶⁷⁸⁹⁰

eulerscheZahl: weird, drops after 4th power

Astrobytes: exponential decay

BrunoFelthes: my statements changed to fr, how to back it to english?:

Astrobytes: there are bigger issues than that BRuno, it's reverted to an earlier version of the game

[SG]Sebastien: the statements are in the gazme package. All should be fixed at the same time

BrunoFelthes: so, the input will not be changed?

[SG]Sebastien: it will revert back to what you had before

BrunoFelthes: oh, ty

Wontonimo: lol, exponential decay

Astrobytes: eulerscheZahl: is it working now?

Astrobytes: It's been updated

Astrobytes: Wontonimo :D

Astrobytes: Anyone in gold league confirm it's working?

wlesavo: it is

wlesavo: now im timing out

wlesavo: :smiley:

Nerchio: punishment for all the impatient people :D

Nerchio: so do we have to resubmit ourselves

Astrobytes: I guess

Nerchio: there's no games as p1 p2 though

eulerscheZahl: i'll wait for the bubble :popcorn:

wlesavo: Nerchio maybe it is still an older version but a different one :smiley:

wlesavo: we should check if the training bug is still there

eulerscheZahl: it's an English one

[SG]Sebastien: games p1/p2 then p2/p1 is a set up on codingame's side, not in the game source code

Astrobytes: wait, there's no mirrored games as before?

eulerscheZahl: mirror matches are gone

Astrobytes: ok let me report that

Default avatar.png _thienthanh_: hallo leute

Nerchio: we should let it stay this way so I have better chances of being in the top

Nerchio: by just being lucky

eulerscheZahl: but i can confirm: the game creator has no affect on mirror matches

Psyho: does rating distribution (like rating inflation) impact match making system on CG or does only care about relative placements?

eulerscheZahl: opponent = your rank-10 to +10 or so

eulerscheZahl: not sure if equal probability

Astrobytes: Julien is on the mirror match issue (broken in other leagues too btw)

eulerscheZahl: you pinged the right guy

Astrobytes: ok should be fixed

wlesavo: euler i think probability is based on the score difference

wlesavo: fixed in gold confirmed

Astrobytes: same in silver (Should be the same across all leagues)

jacek: first gold in contests :tada:

Nerchio: hidden NN incoming?

Astrobytes: grats jacek!

Psyho: it will take ages for this ranking to make sense

MSmits: are you saying you should not be nr 1 Psyho?

MSmits: :)

Psyho: probably, although at this point I have no clue

Psyho: it's a new version as well

MSmits: oh i see

Nerchio: well i was top15 not top2 so yeah xd

Nerchio: Psyho number1 is more probable

struct: We all know who is getting rank 1

MSmits: It must be someone who puts training cards in played pile

struct: definitely

MSmits: nice bug btw, i also found some

MSmits: small ones

MSmits: I forgot to reduce from a desk when i picked up a card

MSmits: hand[i]++ but not board[i]--

MSmits: doesnt matter a whole lot, but it matters a little later on for eval

MSmits: oh and i calculated distance wrong for daily thingy

MSmits: so i could not pick up from some desks

struct: I think we can agree that you only found it because I reported my bug

struct: :p

MSmits: hehe i dunno. I am bugchecking all day and i keep finding new ones :)

struct: I should do that

MSmits: it's more efficient than fitting parameters for me

MSmits: I really rushed creating the sim

struct: I'm going to redo mine

jacek: how shoddy of you

MSmits: I googled shoddy lyric

MSmits: got this


MSmits: oh nvm, no workie

jacek: and probably wont until the end of chat

MSmits: sigh. Seems like my bugfixed bot gets 57% WR vs old bot, but I can't submit now :(

jacek: hm?

struct: cooldown?

MSmits: the leaderboard is meaningless

MSmits: because of gold opening

struct: why?

struct: too much rng?

MSmits: yeah

struct: ah

MSmits: have to wait till everyone who is offline is done submitting

MSmits: calms the leaderboard down

jacek: thats so green

jacek: maybe thats the way to win it

jacek: and leaderboard is a decoy

MSmits: who knows

Default avatar.png miobyte: anyone here can help me with k8s?

Astrobytes: you asked that yesterday or the day before

jacek: is that a puzzle

kovi: it is harder to ascend when top is actually in middle of leaderboard

Nerchio: I am the top now hehe

Psyho: it gets easier when you get to the top ;)

Nerchio: it will take some time before people bring me down maybe I should leave it until friday

Nerchio: :sunglasses:

emh: Gold opened early?

struct: yes

struct: and I thought I passed because of the notification

struct: now I have to start coding again

emh: good luck

emh: me too if I am going to be sure to reach Legend

emh: when it opens

struct: Not sure I can make it to legend this time, fewer players and the top is too strong

Default avatar.png Julian_Dixon: you ive read through and completed all excercises in an intro to python book and im still finding "the descent" impossible, is there somewhere i can get coding experience without already knowing how to code? like every time i try to get into it i get into this feedback loop of "well you just need to get better by doing it" but "I cant DO it"

struct: press hints on the left Julian_Dixon

struct: maybe you are just struggling to understand how inputs and outputs work

emh: Julian_Dixon study "algorithms" to get smarter after knowing how to code

jacek: programming aside, you need to familiarize yourself with inputs/outputs here. more advanced people struggle at first

Default avatar.png Julian_Dixon: Im almost done with a math minor and a engineerig physics degree, I dont think my uderstanding of algorithms is the problem

struct: So which part do you think you are struggling with?

struct: the descent is turn based

struct: you get inputs from stdin each turn

Sarzorus: Yeah the level of study you get in algorithms at school isn't easily replaced with just doing it. Maybe in some cases you can, but in general it's very difficult without some background in implicit proofs, and/or knowing the general algorithm classes/types.

struct: and you must output to stdout

Default avatar.png Julian_Dixon: somehow this is the first ive heard of stin and stdout. Ive already completed a whole computational physics course, how is that possible

Default avatar.png Julian_Dixon: im pulling my hair out lol

Uljahn: maybe try to understand the solution in the hints on the left?

Default avatar.png Julian_Dixon: Ill do that i guess thanks

Crosility: Howdy Everyone :]

Default avatar.png Julian_Dixon: I think my problem is that coding requires a LOT of creativity and I have zero

wlesavo: well not for this puzzle

Crosility: Creativity? More like deductive reasoning, and problem solving. :]

Sheeesh---: everything will come with practice

Default avatar.png Julian_Dixon: well i say that because theres 12 ways to write a program that does the same thing yknow?

Crosility: Do first, optimize later (once you've obtained practice and skills)

struct: you dont need to overthink that puzzle

Default avatar.png Julian_Dixon: and @Sheeesh--- that where i get confused, because to practice coding, you have to know how to code something more than like a prime number checker

Crosility: Julian, I think you'd benefit from watching a CS50 course on youtube.

Default avatar.png Julian_Dixon: That sounds like a good idea

wlesavo: if you have basic understanding of conditions and loops you can practice on cg

Default avatar.png Julian_Dixon: I do

Sarzorus: Lol in our class on state machines we went through a proof that any program has an uncountable infinite ways to write it. However most statements can be boiled down to a minimum working version which isn't creativity just reasoning.

jacek: there are so many ways to do sorting

jacek: you can even dance

Sheeesh---: LOL

Sheeesh---: made my day

Default avatar.png Julian_Dixon: what. did i just watch

Default avatar.png Julian_Dixon: I mean intuitively i get it but that doesnt help me understand how to translate it to computer language

ilgiocatore: quick sort is a pretty advanced algorithm, i guess

Astrobytes: for simple problems, writing it out on paper/whiteboard and solving a few cases by hand is useful, you can then translate that to code

Crosility: Quick sort has a fatal flaw.

Westicles: programming isn't for everyone. somebody has to make the pizzas

Default avatar.png Julian_Dixon: is it that you need to know how to dance?? haha

Crosility: It sucks at sorting already sorted lists/mostly sorted lists.

Crosility: But yes, need to learn to dance. :P

Sheeesh---: i guess most of the time the list is not sorted

jacek: most sorting used are mix of sort algorithm with analyzing of partially sorted sublists

jacek: like

Sheeesh---: oh i see

JohnyDaison: jacek what the hell is that video? :D who are those people? how did they stay serious throughout that?? :D

jacek: these are CG servers behind the scenes

AlitorTheWise: Hello, can I talk with the people in a clash od code? I mean, I supose to, but how can I find the room to do it? Tx

JohnyDaison: Do you see other tabs than World above this chat?

jacek: it should add automatically once clash starts

jacek: or before that (?)

Noyotens: any advices?

struct: you got 4 tech on first release

struct: doesnt seem like a great idea

Illedan: :scream:

struct: also on 2nd and 3rd release

struct: seems like you like to collect tech

struct: :p

jacek: tech?

JohnyDaison: tech debt

jacek: oh

eulerscheZahl: did nerchio improve so much or is the leaderboard still out of place?

eulerscheZahl: in any case: don't touch it until legend opens

jacek: now im gonna touch it

Psyho: it's out of place by a lot

Psyho: everyone that submitted right after fix is very high, everyone that didn't (like duck) is very low

struct: What is the draw rate between top bots?

struct: in 2 matches I mean

Psyho: dunno, but I'd imagine draws are very rare (2% at most?), it's improbable to tie on debt

Psyho: oh

Psyho: that's not what you asked about

struct: yeah its a bit diferent sory

struct: sorry*

Psyho: it's hard to tell, because the top bots are in the middle of the leaderboard

struct: ah ok

jacek: the 2 matches have the same seed/

Psyho: but surprisingly p1 doesn't have enormous advantage

Psyho: MOVE 5 and MOVE 2 first are both decent options

Psyho: knowing what your enemy is going for also gives you p2 a small edge

lifetimeLearner007: TRAINING (0). The team draws 2 cards How do I know which 2 cards I'm going to draw?

struct: you don't

struct: unless there are only 2 cards to draw

struct: first it draws cards from the draw pile, if its empty then it will draw from the discard pile

Nerchio: eulerscheZahl wow rude :joy:

lifetimeLearner007: if it is not known which cards will be drawn, how do we look ahead to find best action?

struct: You take into account probability

jacek: :scream:

struct: I managed to do it, so I don't think it's very hard

ilgiocatore: most players just don't use training and coding :relaxed:

lifetimeLearner007: it seems like it is better to not use training and coding rather than spend time on handling probability(which is not 100% accurate)

ilgiocatore: although i use coding, but only for extra move

ilgiocatore: if i have multiple useful cards in hand

lifetimeLearner007: also, how do we know when the phase is going to change and to what phase? If I were to simulate, how do I know?

struct: well if you move and go over admin table then the next phase is thor

struct: throw*

struct: if you land near opponent then its give

struct: and so on

struct: you need to take that into account when you create the sim

lifetimeLearner007: hmmm. This game has more unknowns than the previous games, or I haven't understood the game completely

struct: you can predict the next phase

struct: until it reaches opponent turn

ilgiocatore: phases are within one turn: move -> [throw] -> [give] -> play -> release

you know everything, because you draw new cards from your deck only before "move" phase

lifetimeLearner007: yes but the movement from discard pile to draw pile to in hand is not deterministic right?

darkhorse64: it is. All discard goes to draw when draw is empty. Draw to hand is random

lifetimeLearner007: what matters most is random,. haha

Nerchio: life is random so get used to it

Illedan: Educated random

emh: took a sleeping pill yesterday to come down from my programming high, but it lasts too long so I slept all day. now I want energy drink but it's too late in the evening

MSmits: I've never taken a sleeping pill

emh: well it's also against schizo

emh: but it makes me sleep

MSmits: for a second I thought you meant to suggest I should take it for schizo

emh: haha

MSmits: :P

MSmits: I try to hardcode openings but it makes my bot worse

emh: I've a list of prioritized openings

Illedan: This skewed placement is a pain to test against

emh: mostly 2 and 5

MSmits: yeah i try to hardcode 2 as p2

struct: MSmits still enough time for meta mcts

MSmits: but it made my bot 40% WR vs old bot

struct: :D

MSmits: heh yeah, i actually did consider that :)

Illedan: Just do mcts :P

MSmits: still am

jacek: that would be so green

struct: 4 is the worst opening for p1 right?

Illedan: nah

struct: You are forced to either give or go to admin next move

jacek: 3 3 is best opening

emh: once you have enough heuristics in place the game gets too complicated to add more, for example taking into account probabilities of draw pile. the combinations of things to think about grow and there are so many considerations worth little each

MSmits: yeah

emh: struct hmm that reminds me, I have a priority to go from 2 to 4, as I can still get CI and block opponent from it, but I didn't think about having to go to admin after if opponent moves 2 steps ahead

MSmits: this is why i do a sim, but when my bot starts the game, it behaves weirdly.

Illedan: How do you search it?

MSmits: brute force, i just do a dfs with eval

MSmits: for my turn

struct: and probability

MSmits: yeah

struct: when he draws using training/coding

MSmits: it's kinda hard to deal with architecture and daily on a search like that

MSmits: because they dont provide benefit within the turn

MSmits: I just give them a score, but nothing i do makes my bot use daily. I am not sure if i have a bug there

BrunoFelthes: I just add score to daily at first turns... After it, i only use, if i have nothing more to do...

MSmits: yeah i think that is what my bot does too

MSmits: well except for the first turn

MSmits: i cant make it go to 2 unless i force my bot

MSmits: my p2 bot goes straight to refactor

MSmits: which seems completely nuts as the admin desk is next

MSmits: but on the other hand, p1 is force to move to coding

Illedan: Too high scoring on losing debt

Illedan: I had that too

MSmits: on having debt you mean

Illedan: ye

MSmits: but yes, i guess so

MSmits: i wonder if it is bad though

MSmits: you force p1 to make a big jump as well

emh: I don't worry much about debt

emh: top players generally end with lots of debt. at least in Silver it was like that

emh: or a while ago

jacek: becuase they were using 1st action

emh: my priority is releasing early and often. but not too early, as I want to get my CI going

Nerchio: damn i had a bug where I miscalculated penalty for card giveaway

Nerchio: basically the penalty was on every move no matter what lol

MSmits: ouch

Illedan: Hard to understand progress here

MSmits: yeah i tis

Illedan: 1 random move different and I win / lose

Nerchio: there's a lot of randomness in the draw, people literally drawing all "good" cards when their draw deck is full of debt

MSmits: well thats a 1 turn benefit

Nerchio: so just search for your bad moves and don't look at the result I guess

MSmits: next turn you will get all your TD :)

Nerchio: the games end very fast MSmits

struct: Does the game always starts with 12 apps?

Nerchio: so 1 lucky turn is often all you need

MSmits: true, this is a problem on the last turn mostly

Default avatar.png miobyte: can anyone help me with k8s?

BrunoFelthes: Nerchio, do you try to block the opponent move?

Nerchio: not yet but I have it written down

Nerchio: and it would mostly be against people who go for 30 tech debt wins lol

BrunoFelthes: i tried, but it got worst

Nerchio: yeah it's probably tricky to get it right

MSmits: BrunoFelthes got worse for me as well

emh: BrunoFelthes I block opponent, but only if he has only one choice left for his only automated skill card. doesn't make sense to block if he's got options

Illedan: 1 option left?

emh: one application which needs the skill

emh: of course he have other options, but not with that skill

Nerchio: one application to rule them all

emh: and in the CI bind them

TINOUAINANI: Hi, is there a trick to print all errors with out limit in the console ?

eulerscheZahl: online it will always be truncated

Dapps: Damn.. guess I've gone as far as my if/else skills will take me. Can't get higher than top 20 silver

struct: My vs is so broken

jacek: if second player releases 5th app, its over no matter what?

struct: ys

struct: yes*

Kellthazar: my bot was running only with my "MOVE" phase logic... duh!

JohnyDaison: struct, but there should be one more turn for the first to release, right?

IvesL: what makes the game so little participants?

jacek: it was announce a week before

Nerchio: I didn't sign up on 3000 acounts this time

struct: No JohnyDaison because both players played the same amount of turns

JohnyDaison: that's a bit counter-intuitive, but ok

struct: not really, it would probably help p1 if it was the case

struct: He could just keep lowering his technical debt

TINOUAINANI: is it possible to simulate all possible outcomes including TRAINING and CODING in less than 50 ms?

struct: No

BrunoFelthes: for 1 turn, yes, if you hash things

Illedan: And if you throw all cards first

struct: even if you have 5 training and 5 coding?

struct: He did say all possible

BrunoFelthes: yes, because, the result, will be the same

BrunoFelthes: just hash things, i said yes, i didnt say that is easy

BrunoFelthes: because order do not make difference

struct: Maybe I'm thinking of something different

MSmits: BrunoFelthes with probability it may make a difference

MSmits: the order

BrunoFelthes: some orders yes, but others no

MSmits: true, i just enforce orders when it doesn't matter

MSmits: so i dont use hashing atm

MSmits: but i also limit to 3x training/coding per turn

BrunoFelthes: but i think that is it possible, it is just hard to do

MSmits: so i might use hashing soon

struct: Yes draws have to be limited

struct: I dont think its feasible in 50ms to calculate all states possible

MSmits: well it is possible for most situations

MSmits: it's just not possible for a rare few

BrunoFelthes: What i do, is to random the draft and test possible things

MSmits: random the draft after the turn?

MSmits: or when you train/code?

BrunoFelthes: we are talking about the same turn

MSmits: oh ok

BrunoFelthes: train/code

MSmits: I don't random, i loop over all possible train/code result and weigh the eval by the probability of the draw

BrunoFelthes: and can you run at all of the states?

MSmits: yeah if i limit to 3 plays in 1 turn. Could do 4 in most cases, probably 4 or 5 if i do some more optimization

MSmits: i might switch to iterative deepening for this.

Illedan: The randomness of these games :scream;

BrunoFelthes: oh... i do a diferent aproach...

struct: thats what I meant on all possible :p

MSmits: I'll explain how to do it on monday

MSmits: i mean i kinda did now

MSmits: but i'll share code

Psyho: so you only evaluate after a single move?

MSmits: after a full turn, but yes, there is 1 move in there

MSmits: i dont know how to go on after this

BrunoFelthes: do you evaluate the entire game psyho?

Psyho: yep

BrunoFelthes: god

MSmits: that's amazing

JohnyDaison: Psyho, but you are making assumptions based on Math.Random(), right?

MSmits: you can't brute force that, that has to have loads of random

BrunoFelthes: with train/cod?

ilgiocatore: the next step is to evaluate 5 games ahead

Psyho: funnily enough, I believe I explained my approach at the end of the stream

Psyho: and did exactly that

MSmits: there is a strea,?

MSmits: m?


BrunoFelthes: I'm analising Psyho games, he do not have a lot draw pile

Psyho: I did stream my first day of the contest

MSmits: oh ok

BrunoFelthes: maybe it is the secret

Psyho: it's just monte carlo with full games with heuristic strategy for both players

Illedan: I do the full game too, but I set a cutoff to not go too far into nothing

Psyho: and eval is based on win%

MSmits: I see

BrunoFelthes: nice

eulerscheZahl: and that works? i'm impressed

Psyho: I thought it's impossible to write good midstate eval for this game

MSmits: so ordinary monte carlo? No mcts?

MSmits: i should say, ucb guided mc

MSmits: not mcts

BrunoFelthes: what is the difference between mcts and monte carlo?

struct: monte carlo doesnt remember

jacek: ts

struct: mcts stores info

Psyho: funnily enough, I never did implement MCTS, but I don't see how it can be done here

BrunoFelthes: i see

MSmits: well mcts is the wrong choice as it is adversarial, but for your turn you have several phases in a row, you could use UCB to guide your decisions within your turn

struct: its a bit more detailed than that

jacek: you can do UCB at first level

Psyho: after your turn is done or you play coding/training the branching factor is too big

Psyho: and you need a lot of games for prediction

Smekarn: Impressive lead @Psyco, nice!

eulerscheZahl: any highly speed-optimized simulation at least?

eulerscheZahl: let's wait for the duck to resubmit

Psyho: nothing fancy

struct: If you want I can share with you my MCTS code for one of my bots BrunoFelthes, after the contest ends

Psyho: if you expand the full tree until the end of the turn/coding/training you can just eval all of the nodes

Psyho: so no need for MCTS

Psyho: i.e. you get enough sims

MSmits: yeah, BrunoFelthes just dont imagine using mcts very often on these contests, its useful for simple board games mostly

MSmits: Psyho if you eval the nodes, you dont have the future info like you do on a full game MC

Psyho: Smekarn, oh yeah I doubt I should be first now, the ranking is broken

Psyho: yeah, I just think it's impossible here to make a good solution based on eval

MSmits: i almost agree with that

MSmits: it's possible to make a good solution based on eval

struct: So I should be doing better, since i dont know how to write evals

MSmits: just not a great solution

Psyho: ideal solution is RL where you update the model via rollouts

jacek: :thinking:

Psyho: (rollout = MC in RL terms)

Psyho: (I'm dumping the whole knowledge know becaus it's essentially the last day of competition for me, except for running local league system on a VM that tries to find better params for the MC (heuristic strategy in sims)

MSmits: Psyho i appreciate you sharing a lot, but for your own benefit it is better to share on monday

eulerscheZahl: and then you will be placing stones with increasing numbers on a grid instead

MSmits: even if it is your last day coding

MSmits: I share a lot but usually not my whole search. Only reason I shared my brute force here is because euler already did

eulerscheZahl: i did?

MSmits: yeah before me

MSmits: i figured, well cat is out of the bag anyway

eulerscheZahl: but it's so plain stupid, no one will gain anything with it

struct: I will

MSmits: yeah maybe, sometimes proof of concept is all people need to imitate

struct: just wiat

struct: wait*

Psyho: tbf, if euler didn't share his brutaltester jar I wouldn't be even close to that

Psyho: *to the top

MSmits: oh yeah, he does that :)

eulerscheZahl: oh wow, you trusted a relative stranger to execute that code

eulerscheZahl: i feel honored

Kellthazar: hahahaha

Psyho: it's java, what harm could it do

Illedan: xD

Noyotens: boss 4 has not provided an action in time.

Noyotens: why?

jacek: w00t

struct: Maybe it breaks at this exact time

MSmits: Noyotens too slow

Psyho: the thing that I find the most shocking is that juju is 2nd with python

jacek: dont they see the source code?

MSmits: mmh my code would run in python also and not timeout i think

kovi: either already NN or very nice set of heuristics

MSmits: but i am not 2nd :)

Noyotens: MSmits, the bot is slow

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: apparently :)

MSmits: or just a bug in the bot

Noyotens: i changed the seed & my code but its still broken

Noyotens: ?

MSmits: ah, no idea

struct: well its working for me

MSmits: is it rust?

Noyotens: nope, c#

MSmits: then i got nuthin'

struct: you cant break bots anymore with rust

MSmits: maybe you haven't tried hard enough

struct: you can but it will also break your arena one

struct: Do I even need to store all apps?

MSmits: what do you mean?

MSmits: in your gamestate?

struct: Yeah

MSmits: no. Store a minimum of 12 bits that flip when an app is finished

MSmits: or if you're lazy like i have been, a bool[12]

struct: but you still need to for each app

struct: if you sum all apps together you dont need to loop

struct: ah doesnt work

struct: im dumb

MSmits: well

struct: How do I delete a message?

MSmits: actually you can get away with 1 integer

MSmits: just set it to -1 for no app finished

MSmits: and then to 3 if you finished app 3 etc.

struct: I think ill do the 12 bit thing

MSmits: works too

struct: Thanks MSmits

MSmits: np

Nerchio: the duck is slowly climbing since gold opened lol

jacek: he didnt submit since fix?

Nerchio: nah

Scarfield: what was fixed?

struct: Gold opened with alpha version

Scarfield: so same version in silver?

eulerscheZahl: bugs. french statement only. other input format

Scarfield: ah nothing "changed" then, but gold opened with wrong version and that got fixed?

struct: it will only change in legend

Scarfield: what, so gold has a different format?

eulerscheZahl: no, league opening was bugged. but now it's all good

Illedan: Losing a game 5-2 in Last battles and winning 5-1 in IDE -.-

struct: cant relate

Nerchio: cant relate I always win in and outside of IDE

JohnyDaison: Illedan if you're testing against Psyho you will almost never get the same game even with the same seed

emh: I succumbed to desire. energy drink it is. maybe it will be a coding night

eulerscheZahl: illedan might be random himself

eulerscheZahl: i know him well enough to expect exactly that

Default avatar.png Ay1man1: how do you xor two numbers wtf\

Psyho: "An error occurred (#407): "You reached the limit of plays for a period of time."." damn

Default avatar.png Ay1man1: just had a coding clash i could not understand

Psyho: so apparently 20 games is the limit in short time

jacek: Ay1man1 a^b

jacek: or make NN for that

Default avatar.png Ay1man1: like a to the power of b?

struct: it will get lower and lower Psyho and cooldown will increase

jacek: ^ in most languages is xor

struct: if it keeps getting spammed

Default avatar.png Ay1man1: oh...

elderlybeginner: What are "automated" cards in the contest?

eulerscheZahl: there are many play limits for time spans up to 24h

Illedan: eulerscheZahl, I'm full random :P

Default avatar.png putibuzu: elderlybeginner basically cards that you put next to your hand for the rest of the game and can use them for releasing apps, but you cannot play them for the effect anymore

JohnyDaison: Illedan, are you serious or not? If you are 47th with RANDOM, something is very wrong.

Illedan: ..

struct: he doesnt mean output random

eulerscheZahl: ̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤

MSmits: noooo

struct: ..

Illedan: I do rollouts like psyh o

MSmits: onl no heuristics

eulerscheZahl: Illedan provoked me

Illedan: But fully random

MSmits: just random moves

IroncladDev: what in the world are all these lines?

struct: So its just normal monte carlo?

MSmits: should be easy to transition from your method to psyho's

MSmits: IroncladDev they are euler's sick sense of humor :P

Illedan: Yeah, 2 lines of code. It worked ok, but my heuristic is not as good

IroncladDev: interesting

Illedan: I have heuristic for the enemy

eulerscheZahl: this alone is a reason to keep the chat. where else should i spam ̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤̤

mlomb: how many rollouts are you getting? :eyes:

Illedan: 500 :D

mlomb: nice

eulerscheZahl: do you simulate solo-play or with the opponent moving too?

kovi: you run till end of game

kovi: ?

Psyho: wait you get 500 full games in 50ms with just random moves?

jacek: Automaton2000 did you see that?

Automaton2000: did you get to the same state

Psyho: 500 is not a lot

struct: 500 seems low doesnt it?

Illedan: I know :P

struct: ok

Illedan: Very low

PatrickMcGinnisII: spam chain Automaton2000

Psyho: veryyyyy lowwwww

Automaton2000: nothing to do with it?

Psyho: I get few times more and my heuristic is the bottleneck

MSmits: Illedan when you do the movegenerator don't make all sorts of temporary objects like Lists and such

Illedan: Nah

Illedan: I count all spells that I can do

Illedan: Random on the amount

Illedan: Then count again until I find the one I wanted

MSmits: I see

MSmits: weird that it is so slow

MSmits: it is C#, but still

Illedan: I didn't optimize it yet

Illedan: Just got stuff working last night

MSmits: ah ok, i didnt optimize mine still and i got it working on sunday :P

kovi: thought you did 1 move only?

Illedan: Kid + work + wedding soon doesn't help on my time schedule :P

MSmits: i turn yes, but thats a move, throw, give, x plays and a release, bruteforced

eulerscheZahl: and you can't just ditch one of those 3 without affecting the others

eulerscheZahl: kid for adoption but wedding still going won't work

MSmits: is the wedding because of the kid?

Illedan: Quit work? Then I can't afford wedding?

Default avatar.png putibuzu: :D

JohnyDaison: Hey Psyho, I just got your bot to time out

MSmits: JohnyDaison if people run close to the timelimit, some inaccuracies make you occasionally go over. It might not be a bug

Psyho: thanks for the info, unfortunately it's not reproducible

MSmits: you usually leave a 5ms buffer or something

MSmits: his buffer could be too small

Psyho: I'm using 45 ms

MSmits: yeah sometimes that could not be enough

MSmits: very rarely

Psyho: but there's also a much it just crashed

Psyho: *a chance

MSmits: yeah hard to say

MSmits: sometimes it outputs the time even when you are out of time and you can tell

MSmits: say you used 52 ms or something

struct: i usually leave a 0.5ms buffer

Psyho: I don't think I ever use more than 46ms, so my bet is on crashing

MSmits: structed i just compared a 2 play limited bot to a 3 play limited bot. It had a WR of 40%

MSmits: struct i mean

MSmits: so the play limit does affect my game

eulerscheZahl: there are these dots below the viewer that let you see your logs. if you are lucky, it points you to a line in your code

struct: maybe the type of timer could be difeferent

Psyho: oh btw about that: is there any easy way of getting the log of all of the games that I played?

Psyho: seems like the easiest way to find crashes

struct: I use high_resolution_clock

eulerscheZahl: you have to write your own scraper

Psyho: damn

eulerscheZahl: download all replays, check for negative score

Illedan: You have to script it Psyho. Because only you can see your debug printing

Psyho: don't you have a jar for that mr jar dealer? :D

Astrobytes: lol

struct: Does your tech io tutorial still works eulerscheZahl?

eulerscheZahl: we agreed not to share such software as we fear that CG will limit it when it gets too popular

Psyho: makes sense


eulerscheZahl: a quick how-to with some code. but nothing ready to use

eulerscheZahl: the play limit you hit earlier is a result of automated testing taking too much resources

struct: books -_-

Psyho: thanks, that's actually more than enough

Psyho: and yay for python instead of java

jacek: jython?

eulerscheZahl: pyava - to combine the worst of both worlds

Illedan: pyava++?

Psyho: speed of python with flexibility of java? :D

eulerscheZahl: the enterprise slow language

MSmits: it's not as good as Roofie

MSmits: (Groovy + Ruby)

Astrobytes: where did the 'fie' come from?

MSmits: it sounds the same

Astrobytes: v != f

MSmits: pfft details

Astrobytes: *pvvt

MSmits: :)

Astrobytes: heh

MSmits: kovi did you end up bitboarding this?

kovi: not yet

MSmits: I am trying to think of an effective way, but it doesnt even fit in int32

MSmits: a hand

kovi: im also still 1 move only, no speed problem

MSmits: did you not limit your plays?

MSmits: the limit hurts me a bit

kovi: i use heuristics to cut it

MSmits: oh ok, i just limited it to 3. If i lower the limit to 2, my bot gets 40% WR so it's significant. Not sure if a limit of 4 would be much better

MSmits: i should just do it iteratively. start at 3, then try 4, 5 etc.

MSmits: most turns it should just hit the max np

struct: Nice I made it to gold :D

MSmits: welcome struct :)

JohnyDaison: welcome

struct: Thanks

struct: I just add to open euler referee for brutaltester

struct: changed 1 param and got 70%, changed another and got 70% vs the previous 2

MSmits: nice

struct: wow psy has a huge lead

BrunoFelthes: full game search

struct: maybe I should start going further than 1 round

MSmits: you could, but you'd still be limited to eval. Psy ho's method is using the endgame result as eval, thereby circumventing the need for eval

Psyho: I mean, I wouldn't say the only my method is the way to go

Psyho: I had the same approach two days ago

Psyho: it's just that this morning I set up a local league system + some semi-automated way of parameter search and I'm 60K of local games later

struct: well time to rent a vm again

Psyho: and that messed up leaderboard makes it look like I have a huge lead (honestly I'm confused at this point why I still have a 3 point lead)

Psyho: duck is finally in top 10 though

struct: maybe we should wait for duck submit

Nerchio: yea but he didnt even submit xD

Psyho: I have a version that's ~0.9 higher locally, but I don't want to ruin my unfair lead :(

MSmits: There's a duck on my tails!

emh: I wonder if I should write a new bot with sim (in C++) but I'm too chill at the moment

MSmits: more caffeine

emh: hehe I'm already immune to caffeine without taking a break I suspect MSmits. mostly. could be that 0.5l more of energy drink would help

struct: he just drank 10 coffees worth of caffeine

emh: 160 mg in one can

MSmits: i cant take much of that

struct: I dont have good experiences with energy drinks

Nerchio: i stopped drinking coffee and I have more energy than before so there's that

emh: I stopped drinking coffee also because I don't feel like the taste, and also because it's acidic for stomach. well I don't know if energy drink is any better for stomach but at least I love the sugar taste

Astrobytes: energy drinks are terrible for the stomach. I stopped more than 1 or 2 cups a day of coffee as my pain meds wreck my stomach enough as it is

Illedan: The play limit is annoying -.-

Astrobytes: Very.

Illedan: Using submits to tests small changes

Illedan: -.-

struct: havent reach it yet

struct: reached*

struct: I think its mod benefit

Illedan: riiight

struct: :p

Astrobytes: lol

Kellthazar: does the play limit counts for tests in arena only?

Sheeesh---: what's the distance between desks ?

struct: any arena

Sheeesh---: how to know*

Illedan: 42 meters Sheeesh---

struct: I simply do t2-t1

Illedan: And the pawn walk at 6 km/h speed

Sheeesh---: how about velocity ?

jacek: -3vel

jacek: :tada:

Sheeesh---: thank you !

Quidome: how to get out of wood 2??

Sheeesh---: use if statement

Razovsky: lets go Snef

Quidome: I always beat the boss and can't get high enough

BrunoFelthes: first valid move Quidome

Quidome: really??

BrunoFelthes: try

Quidome: hm, thnxs, will try that

Snef: Razovsky let's hope i don't drop

struct: Quidome first move got people up to silver

struct: but its probably not possible anymore

jacek: now its 2nd action

Quidome: ok, i am on it

BrunoFelthes: really? do they changed it?

BrunoFelthes: first move to 5, second to CI, help a lot to

BrunoFelthes: always that is possible to do a move to 5 and a Cont Int 8, do it... and then, random

Quidome: servers are really fast this time, nice!

Quidome: first move is not working

Quidome: Am i being trolled here??

Astrobytes: no, it really was a thing

jacek: i would never troll

Quidome: really annoying, i looks as too much random to me

Quidome: jacek, sorry

jacek: :upside_down:

antiwonto: [auto] ':upside_down:' was defined as ' ɥǝllo '

Quidome: can't think of a simple strategy to get out of there

Quidome: second move also no good

jacek: there is some boss code on github, isnt it

Quidome: I beat the boss, but I am not getting a high enough ranking

ilgiocatore: Quidome automate bonus cards as much as you can

BrunoFelthes: move to 5, 6. CI 8. otherwise random?

BrunoFelthes: CR too

Quidome: what do you mean by automate bonus cards

BrunoFelthes: yes, stack automated bonus

Quidome: is that a rule in wood 2?

BrunoFelthes: no?

ilgiocatore: oh

Quidome: ok i am gonna read again...

BrunoFelthes: i really do not remember, i pass using random moves :P

ilgiocatore: yeah, in wood 2 you can only move and release?

BrunoFelthes: me

BrunoFelthes: in wood 2 you need to give card?

BrunoFelthes: never give a card

Quidome: only move and release indeed

Quidome: :rage:

BrunoFelthes: so, never wait, just move random, and release random... span the tests

Illedan: Move (position+1)%8 Count Cards in hand, release best option

BrunoFelthes: you go to gold that way

Illedan: Silver, if you do random on the skill turn :D


Michael_Howard: Wow, did they just add a Gold server?

Nerchio: you could also bruteforce all possible positions until the end of the game and evaluate them somehow

Quidome: is there some strategy in this game when you have all te rules?

Astrobytes: darkhorse64: grats, that was close huh

Illedan: Nerchio, evaluate is not a problem when you get that far .P

darkhorse64: small margin but it was my first try farming CI

Illedan: From that webpage ^ danger, however, is agile shaman! many, many shiney rock lost to agile shaman!

Michael_Howard: I hope the servers are this fast on Sunday :rocket:

Illedan: Lol

Illedan: No chance

Illedan: 800 submits pending all day

Illedan: Hmm, my code is better without the enemy -.- Makes no sense as he now just stands still somewhere

jacek: good, less states to eval

Ahmed_King: hello

Ahmed_King: join this

antiwonto: [auto] hey Ahmed_King dont paste those links here. Use the channel #clash

Quidome: after a few submits with the same code I am now at position 6. Variation roughly 259 places...

Quidome: Is it better to wait or keep on submitting?

Illedan: Better to fix the code

Quidome: I am talking wood 2 here randomness is the issue here

Quidome: well, I am gonna sleep over it, it's very frustrating never had is in a previous contest

Quidome: gl

MSmits: it is an obstacle you can get past

MSmits: gn

Michael_Howard: Server at normal speed again. Were they just testing something before?

Michael_Howard: They'd upped the number of battles too.

Michael_Howard: It was like several hundred.

Westicles: so I get this big list of choices to release, is it important which one?

MSmits: yes

MSmits: well it's all relative

MSmits: it's not the most important thing

MSmits: but your deck and the available apps affect the probability of you being able to release in the future

Westicles: I don't think I can figure it out without reading part of the statement

MSmits: you need to read the entire thing and then question everything

Illedan: I got a 5 min youtube video which explains everything

Illedan: For the boardgame

Illedan: far more logical

Westicles: ok let's see it

PatrickMcGinnisII: Westicles minimize tech_debt acquisition for release...wait is also an option

Psyho: rulebook is online for samsara:


Illedan: Glad we don't have the abilities on the characters as the game has

Psyho: honestly the game is really meh, I find it hard to comprehend that it has a decent score on BGG

Illedan: Yeah, too simple for my taste in board games

Psyho: it's very unintuitive for humans, endgame is very simulation-based, rules are overcomplicated, there isn't too much depth, every game is similar, there aren't too many strategies

Psyho: imho it doesn't work as a casual game (too complex rules) nor as a competitive games (lack of depth)

Westicles: every time you use your new phone it'll put you in a bad mood

j4at: its pretty much a casual luck game.

JohnyDaison: You know what would be really useful? If it showed in history for each version what rank it was before it was replaced.

BrunoFelthes: game history could have a lot of improvements

BrunoFelthes: but there is an extension that you can add a text for each history

PatrickMcGinnisII: omg, i beat silver boss, but it timed out! wth

antiwonto: [auto] Hey PatrickMcGinnisII, here is a :taco: for loggin in today while it is quiet. You now have 61 tacos

struct: 4 days to get to legend

Default avatar.png gjin25: hello everyone

struct: hi

Psyho: isn't it 4 days till the end of the contest?

Default avatar.png gjin25: I'm new and i have start the green circle competition

j4at: 4 days and 20 hours and 30 minutes

j4at: Psycho

struct: yes Psyho but I need all the time I have to reach legend :p

Psyho: 🤣

Psyho: that's the ugliest ROFL emoji I have ever seen!

struct: lol

struct: but it describes it perfectly

Crosility: :fearful:

NotSureWhyThisWorks: can someone explain what happens when you play a daily routine card?

NotSureWhyThisWorks: "the team can get their new skill card from a desk one step away"

struct: When you move

NotSureWhyThisWorks: do they get to choose?

BrunoFelthes: at the next move

struct: You can do MOVE 6 5

struct: to move to 6 and get card on cell 5

NotSureWhyThisWorks: oh ok and so the more you have the further the distance away from your actual location you can take a card?

struct: yes

NotSureWhyThisWorks: awesome thanks

struct: But it resets to 0 when you release an app

NotSureWhyThisWorks: yep

PatrickMcGinnisII: can't get above 79th in silver atm

PatrickMcGinnisII: need break

BrunoFelthes: why there is a daily routine count?

PatrickMcGinnisII: laterz

struct: what do you mean bruno?

BrunoFelthes: you can stack daily routines

struct: yeah

BrunoFelthes: at the tooltip there is a daily routines number

BrunoFelthes: you said that its reset to zero

BrunoFelthes: is that true?

struct: when you release an app

struct: ye

struct: " it stays active until the team has released one application."

BrunoFelthes: so, why there is a number, not a boolean?

struct: same for architecture

struct: because you can stack it

BrunoFelthes: no, architecture is a stack

struct: if you use daily routine 2 times

struct: you can take from 2 cells away

BrunoFelthes: ok

Westicles: There is only on puzzle with two approvals, and it is a hardcore combinational math one you'll never solve without googling

antiwonto: [auto] Hey Westicles, here is a :taco: for loggin in today while it is quiet. You now have 113 tacos


emh: Westicles I understand the task but not the solution. should I approve it then?

emh: I need to approve something for my collaboration level

Westicles: It is up to you. I think it is pretty safe to approve, I came up with the same solution with a different approach

emh: ohh.. there is a checkbox that I came up with a working solution.. can't say that I did. so no

Westicles: good form

emh: is there something easy I could solve and approve?

Westicles: yes!

Astrobytes: very math-y puzzle indeed.


Astrobytes: only you could have come up with that :D

Westicles: heh heh

emh: when I was 10 years old I ran after the girls in school and tried to kiss them

Astrobytes: I know someone who did worse than that, me and another mate reminded him at a party once and he didn't speak to us for a year :D

elderlybeginner: what are permanent skills for (contest)?

j4at: Ow I found a way the check the type of incoming clash :o

Astrobytes: they're stackable skills, they stack until you release an app. e.g. daily routine can let you do a move n m, where m == daily_routine_count

Westicles: j4at in time to leave before it starts?

Astrobytes: and architecture study gives you m cards at the start of the turn

j4at: you don't even need to join to check the type

Westicles: wow, you'll be a hero, you should post it on the forum

j4at: hehe

Astrobytes: doesn't sound high priority to me :P

elderlybeginner: It's my intellectual fitness decreasing or the contest is lousy described

Astrobytes: it's lousily described

Westicles: it is a reverse contest, you shouldn't read it. though I'm having trouble getting into gold

elderlybeginner: Astrobytes, why not both :wink:

Astrobytes: lol, well after looking at it for some time it's possible that intellectual fitness may be somewhat diminished :D

Westicles: I'm doing move+1 if available, else first move in list. What should I add?

Astrobytes: -3*vel

Westicles: hey, thanks emh!

elderlybeginner: what's '-3*vel'?

emh: yw

Astrobytes: CSB trick elderlybeginner

Zandy156: if your only skill card in hand is a task prioritization, what play_card action can you do?

Astrobytes: I don't believe you can...

Zandy156: so only wait?

Astrobytes: I would presume so, yes

Zandy156: I thought it was supposed to be automatic if we had no choice.

Westicles: j4at, you aren't going to share the trick?

j4at: I'm going to write a script that shows the type of the clash ;)

Westicles: amazing what they do with scripts, I ran the one that scrapes all your puzzle solutions, took just over 3 hours

Zandy156: oh, you can trade bonus skill cards with task prioritization

Astrobytes: You can.

Zandy156: not sure if that's a good move

Astrobytes: try it and see, I don't know anything any more lol

oidrissi: Hey guys, any one made a scoring system for the possible moves? I want to implement one and am struggling a bit with the whole scoring part

Westicles: I can tell you always choosing the first one works >> better than choosing the second or last

Kellthazar: The better Golang solution is in rank 106, interesting.

Westicles: but that is probably a wait/random artifact

Kellthazar: More Rust competitors as well.

oidrissi: @Westicles Are you answering me or something else? ^^

Westicles: it isn't a direct answer to your question, but related I guess

Westicles: I suspect if someone answered your question it would be like 50 pages of details

oidrissi: Agreed, too much data to handle

elderlybeginner: Can you determine appox./mean value of play_card action?

elderlybeginner: e.g. coding is usually better then daily_rounine

elderlybeginner: kind of rank paly_card actions

therealbeef: oidrissi I think everyone is working on this. the winner will probably just have figured out the best move evaluation

therealbeef: mine is rubbish at the moment

Default avatar.png **Rodrigo_the_coder slaps /flip around a bit with a large fishbot

Default avatar.png Rodrigo_the_coder: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻