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SquidXTV: can I set somewhere that when I enter a Clash of Code round, the code comments are automatically left out?

slazure: new record

slazure: 15 seconds per clash of code

Default avatar.png MingoVanBurne: proof?

slazure: wdym

slazure: how do i send u proof

slazure: i got it

slazure: and whatever i say is true

slazure: :)

slazure: so you want me to send screenshot

Default avatar.png MingoVanBurne: I believe you

Default avatar.png MingoVanBurne: but when you complete a clash, you can click the share button and it will give you a link

slazure: ok

slazure: ill do it


slazure: here, mingo

slazure: there u go

Hwan_Jo: I'm gonna king of algorithm


ASM_MOV_INT: chocolate time

Cube_6: emit etalocohc

Cube_6: :)

Default avatar.png glyphi208: Hey lets sleep

Default avatar.png glyphi208: hit the sack

Cube_6: nah

EsthiYU: was ist das?

Uljahn: Automaton2000: nani?

Automaton2000: i'm still in the game

Default avatar.png cuongkashi: hello world

eggeggwe: hello world

Assasint: You are a mother f°*$ù%

briouyaasmae: hello

Urutar: Assasint: Maybe don't talk like that, it might get you a ban if you keep it up.

jacek: oO

jacek: huh, atari go 9x9 and atari go is exactly the same?

jacek: except the bigger size on later leagues

Default avatar.png simpu: uh! Hi

jacek: ohai

jacek: first ~45 frames, is this ladder? oO

MSmits: think someone is trying to prove their masculinity through go :P

Astrobytes: hey MSmits, been a while dude, how are ya?

jacek: i think ill stop trolling this year

Astrobytes: *this* year

darkhorse64: ¨

darkhorse64: ^

Default avatar.png DevOops: jacek: Yes, it's a ladder.

Astrobytes: Jacek's Ladder

eulerscheZahl: MSmits is online. hey, haven't seen you in a while :wave:

eulerscheZahl: hi to the rest as well of course

MSmits: hey guys

MSmits: yeah been busy with work, but have been working on meta mcts and stuff still. Just not been active on chat

MSmits: I've been upgrading some meta mcts programs with the optimistic/pessimistic bounds principle. It's quite good

MSmits: (ab pruning for mcts)

jacek: c4 solved yet?

Astrobytes: nice!

Astrobytes: and hi euler :)

Default avatar.png DevOops: jacek: Yes, 7x6 connect4 is solved.

MSmits: no, I don't think it's feasible. I went over 100 million nodes now. It seems solved as a win for p1 as the values are only dropping for p2 for the last 50 million nodes or so, but i think the tree is too deep to be solved by mcts

MSmits: at least for my 2 billion node limit

MSmits: I get an issue when i get too deep in some branches

MSmits: all nodes give 100% wr and it doesnt know which to explore

MSmits: so it takes huge amounts of visits

MSmits: so it works as a meta mcts in terms of finding the best moves, but proving the win means it's gonna equally visit all those 100% win branches till one solves

MSmits: where 1 of them would suffice...

Astrobytes: (I've missed these sermons)

MSmits: minimax + ab would not have this issue

MSmits: thanks :)

eulerscheZahl: yes, you lost me again :)

eulerscheZahl: voting smits for mod

MSmits: minimax is DFS is what I meant, my mcts turns into a BFS because of the equal visits at 100% wr

Astrobytes: yeah, lets recommend him

MSmits: DFS solves faster as it's clearly a won branch

Astrobytes: well, it's the pruning that helps in that case

MSmits: not for mcts

Default avatar.png aileth: hello guys im new here and i started c lang weeks ago just wondering do you guys know any where that i can learn more about c

Astrobytes: I meant for minimax DFS

MSmits: ah yeah, it does

MSmits: pes/opt bounds doesn't help there

MSmits: because they are only for solved values

eulerscheZahl: shouldn't mcts solver also handle this?

MSmits: only for solved nodes

MSmits: but it can only get to a solved node if it explores deep enough

Default avatar.png DevOops: Where can I read about the max size for the source code?

MSmits: but it explores all nodes equally because of 100% wr

MSmits: so thats taking forever

eulerscheZahl: oh, you cut search before reaching the end?

eulerscheZahl: 100k chars is the max size

MSmits: meta mcts starts a game at a leaf

eulerscheZahl: i see, interesting

MSmits: so it keeps starting games that go deeper and deeper until one of those game solves on the first turn

MSmits: then the leaf is a solved node

MSmits: so it's a mcts solver that starts mcts solver games

jacek: youre not reusing some of the knowledge from the sims?

eulerscheZahl: my head starts hurting again, this vaccination has no chill :/

Astrobytes: oh damn, side effects again huh

MSmits: yeah i do, i put all the played moves from the "sim" game into the meta tree

MSmits: sucks eulerscheZahl, they last only a day for me, at least on 2nd dose

eulerscheZahl: but much better than yesterday already

MSmits: will get 3rd on friday next week

Astrobytes: oh that's good news

MSmits: booster side effects are worse?

MSmits: supposedly you make a lot more antibodies the third time

eulerscheZahl: same-ish

MSmits: i guess if the body works harder you might feel worse?

Astrobytes: I've got the invitation but need to make an appointment, last time I was there the queue was all the way outside the hospital, and halfway round the car park - mostly unmasked, no ditancing

Astrobytes: *distancing

eulerscheZahl: and i got moderna this time vs biontech, so not totally comparable

MSmits: kinda defeats the purpose Astrobytes

Astrobytes: Indeed.

MSmits: makes no sense either. These people aren't antivax idiots so you would expect them to mask up..

Astrobytes: hopefully will be less busy over the next few weeks

Astrobytes: Yeah, you'd have thought so

eulerscheZahl: some might be, getting harder to do what you want without vaccination

MSmits: hmm that's true

MSmits: it'll be hard to defend forcing people to vaccinate if it doesn't work for omicron and delta is gone

MSmits: let's hope it works at least somewhat

Astrobytes: Yeah. I mean I get the whole civil liberties thing, but people are dying...

Astrobytes: True


MSmits: yep idiots in every country :P

Astrobytes: what's that weird ikwilhakke word

MSmits: jaikwilcorona translates to yesiwantcorona

Astrobytes: Interesting

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: omicron is sweet. like a very mild cold

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: never slept better in my life

MSmits: it is for you, try not to draw conclusions based on a dataset of 1

MSmits: thats why scientists are so careful saying anythign definitive on omicron even though they have thousands of datapoints

MSmits: beats your 1

Astrobytes: ^

eulerscheZahl: i realized that i can mostly understand dutch, at least in writing

MSmits: same for me with German, it's close enough

Astrobytes: I can only say ik wil hakke

eulerscheZahl: ich will haben

MSmits: if you mean ik wil hak, that's a vegetable brand

MSmits: not sure what you mean by hakke

jacek: yeah MSmits, its like concluding that p1 wins after 1 simulation

MSmits: solved it!

ninjadip: hello fellow coders

MSmits: :P

Astrobytes: no no, I want to chop, might be ik wil hakken

MSmits: yes thats correct

MSmits: hi ninjadip

MSmits: why do you want to chop?

Astrobytes: Old gabber record from the 90s, became a meme within the scene

ninjadip: how do u send those red messages?

MSmits: ohh hakken, i get it now

MSmits: like this ninjadip

MSmits: it goes red when your name is in it :)

ninjadip: ohhhhh

ninjadip: automatic

MSmits: yes

MSmits: also easy to type someones name if you finish with tab

ninjadip: sweeet, it's all coming together

MSmits: ms+tab and you have my name

MSmits: (probably)

ninjadip: cool again, ty

ninjadip: it came up MSAnderson

MSmits: ah yes, thats why i said probably :)

MSmits: reminds me of the matrix

jacek: btw MSmits some online mnist based on cnn suffers from my 0 too

MSmits: haha

MSmits: thats great

jacek: probably because the circle is the upper half and it expects that line below

ninjadip: so are there like the same ten people that will be in my world chat everytime

MSmits: i tested it a lot at my school btw, it did very well

MSmits: Astrobytes did you try my mnist thingy?

Astrobytes: I don't believe I am aware of it


MSmits: drag the dot

MSmits: and use space bar

Astrobytes: 3 == 7 :tada:

MSmits: I trained it locally on mnist data and then put it into a trinket, everythign is drawn with python turtle

ninjadip: oh that's cool!

MSmits: damn it always does 3's for me


MSmits: I think i trained myself to draw in a way it always guesses correctly :P

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: Wont was complaining his 0's kept coming out as 3 or 9

Astrobytes: I deliberately made it a wonky 3, still a 3 though

ZarthaxX: that thing is missing a bit too much MSmits :sweat:

MSmits: yeah it does for some people

MSmits: not sure why

MSmits: could be because they are not handdrawn

Astrobytes: 3 == 5, getting closer!

ZarthaxX: :rofl:

MSmits: lol thats not how closer works :P

MSmits: draw a 2

MSmits: 2 never failed for me anyways

ZarthaxX: happy new year everyone whenever it happens in your country

ZarthaxX: lets try 2 then

MSmits: thanks ZarthaxX you too

Astrobytes: and you ZarthaxX

ZarthaxX: it worked! :O

MSmits: yay

ZarthaxX: you teaching NNs to kids now?

MSmits: btw, locally it has 97% accuracy

MSmits: on the data + test

ZarthaxX: wow nice

MSmits: yeah so it is not bad, but it is made a lot worse when combined with the drawing process

MSmits: it's not easy to turn a pixel drawn image into correct input

ZarthaxX: right

ZarthaxX: good point

MSmits: btw, not exactly teaching them NN, just the general principles

ZarthaxX: it's still a lot

ZarthaxX: are they getting the concepts?

Astrobytes: Er...

MSmits: some are, i only did it 1 time and i didnt include mnist then

ZarthaxX: lol

ZarthaxX: ah okie

MSmits: it's too small

ZarthaxX: btw MSmits do you know graphviz?

Astrobytes: that's what she said

MSmits: thats the problem with drawing on the screen, you have too much room

ZarthaxX: lmao

MSmits: lol

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: 3% problem

MSmits: let me check graphviz, maybe


ZarthaxX: found it while reading some MCTS papers

MSmits: i think someone may have suggested it to me, could have been you

MSmits: so it makes graphs from text?

ZarthaxX: mhmm i recommended another one


ZarthaxX: yeah look at that paper

ZarthaxX: the graphs in there were generated by it

ZarthaxX: it's just for visualizing how the tree lkooks roughly

ZarthaxX: not really detailed

MSmits: ohh it has an oware board

ZarthaxX: well, that's what i think

ZarthaxX: ah yeah mancala

ZarthaxX: seems like oware

MSmits: cool stuff

MSmits: yeah oware is a mancala type game

Astrobytes: Is it just me?

MSmits: too large

ZarthaxX: your 2s are ugly astro

MSmits: you're drawing on the edge

MSmits: none of the training examples had 2's on the edge i guess

Astrobytes: FFS it doesn't exactly come with a manual

MSmits: :grin:

Astrobytes: "Please ensure your 2 matches something from the training dataset"

Astrobytes: :rofl:

MSmits: yes thats how nn's work dont they :P

ZarthaxX: you should already know how it works smartrobyto

ZarthaxX: smastrobyto*

ZarthaxX: that sounds cooler

Astrobytes: hahaha

ZarthaxX: missed to come up with names of u astro


MSmits: first one i just tried

ZarthaxX: nice

ZarthaxX: he cheated! he is the dev

MSmits: i really do think i trained myself to make it work

MSmits: they are almost always correct when i do it

ZarthaxX: thats good, you can do an online demonstration and everyone will believe it works

Astrobytes: I got 2 = 8... not touching the edges

traagel: here's a mask for you :

MSmits: exactly ZarthaxX :)

**eulerscheZahl knows graphviz

Astrobytes: FINALLY

jacek: mancala eh

jacek: and i think struct knows graphviz

Astrobytes: It seems you have to draw it at almost exactly the font size of the output...

MSmits: yeah thats the trick i think

ZarthaxX: hey toad

MSmits: this is because you're much more constricted in terms of size when doing the handdrawings

ZarthaxX: have you used that thing?

Astrobytes: hmph, now it thinks my 8 is a 3

Astrobytes: Good effort though :D

MSmits: also lines could be more shaky when using the dot

jacek: "However, as we will demonstrate, when a board evaluation heuristic is available, it is much better to propagate information backwards using a Minimax style update rule"

jacek: so... jacekmax?

MSmits: compared to handdrawing

ZarthaxX: i think so jacek

ZarthaxX: you have the equation of the minimax update there

MSmits: thanks Astrobytes, the hard part was for sure not the NN, just getting the drawing right and converting pixel coordinates to 28x28 input

MSmits: i needed to use a ton of math to interpolate when a user draws fast, you get a dotted image instead of a line otherwise

Astrobytes: interesting

Astrobytes: Also:

MSmits: well at least it think's there's a bit of a 8 in there :P

Astrobytes: :rofl:

MSmits: btw, if you look closely at the image you drew you'll see its 28x28 squares

eulerscheZahl: suggestion to improve detection rate: instead of making us draw, we should be able to select among 10 predefined pictures

MSmits: there\s actually a turtle drawing 784 squares with varying colors

MSmits: 8 bit greyscale

MSmits: thats what mnist nn needs

MSmits: so your drawing is black but the result is greyscale

MSmits: eulerscheZahl lol

Astrobytes: yes, it's somewhat clear from viewing the output that it's greyscale... :P

Astrobytes: euler :rofl:

MSmits: ah yes but it goes from 1 bit to 255 bit

MSmits: err 8 bit

MSmits: 1 to 8

MSmits: so it kinda does some distance calculation from where your dot has been and the center of each square to determine the color

Default avatar.png deeznutz1: guys can you help me with the thor code i dont know how to put the xy

Astrobytes: MSmits: gotcha

MSmits: what do you mean put the xy deeznutz1

MSmits: (I have a feeling he was just trying to get me to say his name)

Astrobytes: yeah, the average age in here these days seems to be about 9

eulerscheZahl: another reason why i wasn't too keep on further playing the mod

eulerscheZahl: keen*

Astrobytes: same

MSmits: I would not mind being mod btw, but I am not going to sit around all day watching chat. Just for times I am around to do something about it

eulerscheZahl: i never watched the chat just to prevent spamming

MSmits: ahh ok

Astrobytes: lol, I don't think any of us ever sat around all day watching chat, better to watch paint drying

MSmits: so both of you stopped being mod?:

MSmits: who is still mod then?/

eulerscheZahl: ille and neumann too

Astrobytes: plus Neuman n and Ille

Astrobytes: damn you :D

MSmits: but there needs to be some mods though?

Uljahn: sure

Astrobytes: yes, there are still plenty

MSmits: oh ok


Astrobytes: for now...

eulerscheZahl: half of them are mostly inactive

MSmits: did anything specific happen that set of a mod-exodus?

Astrobytes: and 5DN1 L is a new addition

MSmits: sounds like a virus

Default avatar.png orchidperson:

jacek: "Moderators have the trust of CodinGame's staff but we reserve ourselves the rights to revoke a moderator rights should any abuse occur"

Default avatar.png orchidperson: ds

eulerscheZahl: thibaud suggested that we shoud quit if we are only on cg because of bot contests

jacek: :thinking:

Default avatar.png orchidperson: fdf

Astrobytes: (that's the condensed version at least)

MSmits: quit being mod or quit completely?

Astrobytes: mod

MSmits: oh

MSmits: well you're not here just for bot contests, they were just very important

MSmits: to you anyway euler, slightly less so for astro i think

eulerscheZahl: to be fair i started the discussion by mentioning that i intend to quit if the next contest should be another escape

eulerscheZahl: stated

MSmits: ah ok

eulerscheZahl: no, started was correct

eulerscheZahl: still tired

Astrobytes: :)

ZarthaxX: you will quit cg?

Astrobytes: Nooo

ZarthaxX: ah

Astrobytes: We quit as mods

ZarthaxX: yes i saw that

ZarthaxX: the pay was not enough? :D

Astrobytes: lol

eulerscheZahl: but i got more into topcoder recently

Astrobytes: you can't get rid of us completely

eulerscheZahl: and other marathon contests like codeforces

ZarthaxX: oh no he is gonna beat tourist

MSmits: He already did

Astrobytes: that last game was fun, at least I know the format now

ZarthaxX: so ACM-ICPC like contests or optimization ones?=

MSmits: euler scored higher on the cooking contest :p

ZarthaxX: MSmits wait what

ZarthaxX: ah lol

Astrobytes: optim

ZarthaxX: makes sense then

Astrobytes: (only ones I'm interested in at least)

ZarthaxX: +1 to that

MSmits: you only like optims Astrobytes?

MSmits: I like them ok, but they're not my favorites

ZarthaxX: toad i need to find a thesis theme D:

ZarthaxX: it's gonna be hard

MSmits: a subject?

ZarthaxX: topic*

Astrobytes: no, in the context of topcoder-style contests

ZarthaxX: yeah sorry lol

MSmits: oh ok, because a theme would be like christmas, or summer :P

ZarthaxX: or i can just search for current offers

ZarthaxX: yeah i just translated wrongly from spanish

MSmits: got it

MSmits: i do it all the time from Dutch, but only Astrobytes notices

Astrobytes: :grin:


MSmits: cuz he's a native

ZarthaxX: i wonder if some AI thing could be done as a thesis subject but well

ZarthaxX: what's that haha

MSmits: christmas themed thesis

Astrobytes: that was the topcoder optim

Astrobytes: Stop the Elves

ZarthaxX: MSmits hahaha

ZarthaxX: oh nice

MSmits: wait, did they provide this visualization or did eulerscheZahl get creative again?

Astrobytes: no it came with a viewer

ZarthaxX: i would go for the second

ZarthaxX: oh

MSmits: just seems like something euler would do

Astrobytes: flawed but useable


MSmits: whats that

Astrobytes: ^ euler's local visualisation

eulerscheZahl: i added those small boxes it visualize my plan

MSmits: aha

eulerscheZahl: but topcoder has some nice visuals too, at least sometimes

MSmits: oh i am confused with codeforces

MSmits: they are lazy on the visuals i think

eulerscheZahl: the idea is to protect the presents against fraudulent elves

eulerscheZahl: as many of them as you can at least

MSmits: makes sense

MSmits: those are the worst kind of elves

eulerscheZahl: then circle shows some presents surrounded by as few boxes as possible

Astrobytes: elf fraud is a big thing nowadays

jacek: and troll

eulerscheZahl: used max flow min cut theorem

MSmits: nice, i am not that knowledgable about graph stuff, apart from decision trees

Astrobytes: with very readable source code too, it was like reading a manual or something

eulerscheZahl: you really read that thing?

MSmits: some people read manuals

MSmits: weird i know

eulerscheZahl: i shared my code on a private discord after the event

Astrobytes: Sure, always interesting to look at (non-CP-style) code from others

MSmits: ohh it was your code that's the manual?

Astrobytes: I mean it was technical but easy to read

eulerscheZahl: found a stream is the last tco finals. psyho was coding in notepad++

MSmits: euler is a pro

eulerscheZahl: is->of

MSmits: notepad++ is not good?

Astrobytes: at least it wasn't just notepad

MSmits: I mean VS trumps all anyways

BlaiseEbuth: Pwet here

eulerscheZahl: i was expecting more of an IDE

MSmits: maybe because it's not an IDE it's faster?

eulerscheZahl: vs, vs code, clion, ... even codeblocks

MSmits: i tried codeblocks, horrified me

eulerscheZahl: same

MSmits: i am spoiled by vs

Astrobytes: yeah, never got on with that

Astrobytes: and yep, VS is so nice and comfortable

MSmits: vs code was ok, but i screw up on the packages and such

BlaiseEbuth: codeblock... Remind me school TD...

eulerscheZahl: i mostly use vs code on my personal pc these days

MSmits: not those blocks :)

MSmits: btw i will be working with microbit soon

MSmits: have to practice with it

MSmits: students will do some physical computing stuff

Astrobytes: I use vscode for anything that isn't C++/C#/C

eulerscheZahl: they are so small that you can fit more of them in your opening book

MSmits: python too?

Astrobytes: microbit?

BlaiseEbuth: I use vscode for everything now...

Astrobytes: Yeah MSmits


MSmits: i use pycharm i think

MSmits: but only for nn stuff

Astrobytes: gotcha, nice! Have you tried it out yet?

Astrobytes: Yeah, I only write little things in python mostly so vscode is fine for now

MSmits: nope, it's been sitting in a drawer while i grade 40 websites. 14 more to go and the microbit is last on my list

BlaiseEbuth: I prefer having a unique tool. Same UI for all.

Astrobytes: good for workflow I guess

MSmits: makes sense BlaiseEbuth but I dont think VS is that good for python

Uljahn: anaconda + vscode is a nice combo

BlaiseEbuth: I don't really use python though...

MSmits: oh i have anaconda for all that TF crap

eulerscheZahl: isn't anaconda a commercial product?

MSmits: there's free versions

Astrobytes: ^

Astrobytes: I used jupyter once . . .

BlaiseEbuth: And packages allows you to really improve your experience, whatever the language.

MSmits: people seem to like jupyter for nn stuff

MSmits: i run into it a lot

Astrobytes: Yeah, I just don't like the workflow, I find it clunky

MSmits: same

MSmits: probably it just takes getting used to

BlaiseEbuth: That's the only MS product I'll ever say good things about. :p

Astrobytes: hehehe

BlaiseEbuth: WDYM by workflow?

MSmits: wait jupyter is MS?

Astrobytes: No, he means VSCode

BlaiseEbuth: ^

MSmits: oh ok

eulerscheZahl: have you heard about VS Codium?

MSmits: i always used to open the referees for contests in VS code

MSmits: nope euler

Astrobytes: workflow as in how easy/efficient/comfortable it is to accomplish common tasks

eulerscheZahl: it's like chrome vs chromium

MSmits: Astrobytes means to keep going without getting stuck on stuff that shouldn not be a problem

Astrobytes: community-built?

BlaiseEbuth: Oh. Well at start I wasn't comfortable, but you get used to.

BlaiseEbuth: I looked into it eulerscheZahl, but not convinced.

MSmits: doesnt normal vs code already have a ton of community input?

MSmits: with all the packages and such?

eulerscheZahl: it's just disabling the telemetry

MSmits: telemetry?

Astrobytes: sending data back home to MS

MSmits: it does that in a mandatory fashion?

MSmits: cant you turn that off?

BlaiseEbuth: Not totally.

MSmits: hmm ok

Astrobytes: it IS MS we speak about

MSmits: true

eulerscheZahl: still some telemetry left in .net itself iirc

MSmits: MS pisses me off a lot

MSmits: it used to be you could have windows and not be forced into an update

eulerscheZahl: they got better

BlaiseEbuth: And since the telemetry is added by ms at compile time, they just build their version from the official repo.

eulerscheZahl: as long as you don't use windows

MSmits: :)

eulerscheZahl: i still hate windows, but other products like vs code or .net framework a fine with me

MSmits: I like windows when it's not forcing me to update

BlaiseEbuth: But they also change the packages repo, and I'm not really confident in it...

Astrobytes: I think I'll use my linux box for the next topcoder marathon tbh

MSmits: what is perceived as the main problem with windows btw?

eulerscheZahl: it's inefficient to use

MSmits: system resources?

eulerscheZahl: do you know i3wm? takes time to learn but so much faster

eulerscheZahl: no windows hiding behind each other so that you have to find them again

MSmits: ok so you mean efficient in terms of workflow?

Astrobytes: the tiling tool?

eulerscheZahl: yes

eulerscheZahl: to both

Astrobytes: yeah I know it

MSmits: ah ok, it's pretty efficient for me, i was more worried about system resources tbh

eulerscheZahl: there is bug.n for windows. but it felt laggy to me

BlaiseEbuth: And also too blackbox-ish.

Astrobytes: I tried it out yeah, not very good on windows

BlaiseEbuth: When is the next topcoder marathon ?

eulerscheZahl: mid january

eulerscheZahl: 12.01 Wed 19:00: MM 132 09.02 Wed 19:00: MM 133 16.03 Wed 18:00: MM 134

eulerscheZahl: 7 days duration each

Astrobytes: is there a date for RAIC yet btw?

eulerscheZahl: unknown to me

BlaiseEbuth: Ok. Never tried a topcoder one. What kind of subject is it?

eulerscheZahl: optim problem


eulerscheZahl: protect the gifts from randomly spawning elves

BlaiseEbuth: Oh great. It's been a long time since I've made one.

eulerscheZahl: they get pretty creative with their tasks sometimes

Astrobytes: that was my first TC marathon

MSmits: randomly spawning?

MSmits: seems weird for an optim

MSmits: usually not much random


Astrobytes: with a certain probability per map

eulerscheZahl: for topcoder random is normal. but 2000 testcases for a final rerun

MSmits: wait so the presents are chickens now?

eulerscheZahl: other optim contest

eulerscheZahl: catch the chickens

MSmits: I see

BlaiseEbuth: February for RAIC iirc.

eulerscheZahl: candy crush

Astrobytes: and there are postmortems too, often with code, just don't try to read that code, far too traumatic

MSmits: yeah the problem with CG post mortems is that people dont give code because of it becoming a multi

eulerscheZahl: if they don't forget about it, topcoder makes all submissions public after the event

MSmits: it's nice for learning purposes

Astrobytes: MSmits: this isn't :rofl:

BlaiseEbuth: VVPII :thinking:

MSmits: no, you need someone to go through the submissions from rank 1 down and find a few that are readable and share a list :)

MSmits: would be fun if euler's is the first on that list

eulerscheZahl: damn you Astrobytes

Astrobytes: :D

Astrobytes: heading to the shops, afk for a bit

MSmits: cya Astrobytes

jacek: :upside_down:

BlaiseEbuth: (╯°□°)╯︵ :)

jacek: we're leaving together

eulerscheZahl: astro killed the chat

ninjadip: what cat

eulerscheZahl: the cat with an h in it

jacek: Automaton2000 want something to say?

Automaton2000: i mean a lot of room to improve

jacek: Automaton2000 where is AutomatonNN? :(

Automaton2000: i'll find a way to use a nn to find the shortest path

jacek: Automaton2000 yes. find him

Automaton2000: i guess this is what happens

Astrobytes: Jeez, what a boring bunch :D

jacek: oO

MSmits: it's just boring without you Astrobytes

MSmits: I can't do sermons when you aren't here, people see cats where there aren't any and as a last resort, they turn to the chat bots

NlcknameAlreadyTaken: :pouting_cat:

Astrobytes: hahaha, brilliant

struct: hi

Astrobytes: hey struct :)

eulerscheZahl: our mod spy, let us know if anything interesting is about to happen

Astrobytes: heh heh

struct: lol

Astrobytes: speaking of CG, where's Julien these days? Didn't see him on discord for what seems like forever

eulerscheZahl: maybe he got bored and left the discord server too

Astrobytes: :D

eulerscheZahl: btw do you still see me as the author of my old messages or just some deleted user?

eulerscheZahl: didn't even take a full day after me leaving that i got a private message related to CG SDK :D

Astrobytes: still as you

Astrobytes: As if you were still a member that is

eulerscheZahl: i was nice enough to reply that i have no idea about the quirks of the latest version with the pixi update

eulerscheZahl: seems that new entities aren't placed on top anymore but random if you don't assign a zIndex

Astrobytes: yes I saw that recently

Astrobytes: At least that channel still makes some degree of sense

eulerscheZahl: could actually be circumvented with the SDK. just set zIndex to big factor * user-assigned z + entity ID

Astrobytes: I'm sure someone will figure that out eventually :P

eulerscheZahl: i think it would be a simple-enough change to the SDK to get back old behaviour

eulerscheZahl: and spellcheck always makes me realize that i'm inconsistent

eulerscheZahl: i write color, neighbor but behaviour

Astrobytes: and realize instead of realise

eulerscheZahl: :D

eulerscheZahl: not what my english teachers tried to teach me

struct: isn't color also correct?

Astrobytes: realise is the UK spelling, same with adding a 'u' to the aforementioned

Astrobytes: depends if you follow American or British English conventions

struct: I follow subtitles

Astrobytes: :D

traagel: Do not try and bend the spoon—that’s impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth.

eulerscheZahl: uri geller would disagree

Astrobytes: hah! Uri Geller :rofl:

Astrobytes: last time I heard of him he was telepathically trying to prevent the UK PM from leaving the EU

eulerscheZahl: ah, successful as always

Astrobytes: He never fails :D

eulerscheZahl: there was an evening show on german television once (2-3h duration) where he tried to get in contact with aliens

Astrobytes: hahaha!

eulerscheZahl: didn't watch it myself but read later that he failed and it was a boring evening


Astrobytes: It would have been highly amusing if he succeeded tbh, Uri Geller - Intergalactic Ambassador of Earth

Astrobytes: 'Under hypnosis, Geller claimed he was sent to Earth by extraterrestrials from a spaceship 53,000 light years away.[36][37] Geller later denied the space fantasy claims, but affirmed there "is a slight possibility that some of my energies do have extraterrestrial connection."' :rofl:

jacek: nyoro~n

Astrobytes: (from EN wikipedia)

eulerscheZahl: 53000, i didn't know that he is that old :o

jacek: people mixing years and light years :unamused:

jacek: where are the physics teachers when you need one

eulerscheZahl: at least that contradicts the Bible according to which the earth is 5000 years old. so at least he doesn't believe in that, it's something

eulerscheZahl: light year = takes light a year to travel that distance

Astrobytes: Finally, credibility for Uri Geller

eulerscheZahl: so even if the space ship is super fast, it is in fact 53000 years

jacek: something something time dilation

Astrobytes: I bet his ship travelled at warp-factor Geller

jacek: but also wormholes or other space-time bending

Astrobytes: And ofc his ship was shaped like a spoon.


eulerscheZahl: oh right, it's new year's eve. completely forgot

Astrobytes: I didn't... the shops were a nightmare

eulerscheZahl: so far it's quiet in my neighborhood

eulerscheZahl: no explosions

jacek: no money to burn

eulerscheZahl: sales of fireworks are forbidden for the 2nd year in a row

eulerscheZahl: usage as well but obviously people don't care

Astrobytes: It'll be like a warzone here by 10pm. And they'll let off fireworks too :P

MSmits: hey, you're talking physics without me

eulerscheZahl: *boom* never mind my last statement

MSmits: any unresolved physics issues ?

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: why are fireworks sales forbidden this year?

Uljahn: Automaton2000: time is a social construct

Automaton2000: but i had to turn it on

eulerscheZahl: no, i acknowledge defeat to jacek

Astrobytes: jacek wanted explanations about time dilation and wormholes

eulerscheZahl: because of the pandemic

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: oh brother

MSmits: oh ok specifically if there is time dilation near a wormhole?

Astrobytes: and space-time distortions

Astrobytes: *and other

MSmits: oh btw, I am actually unsure if anything ever fell into a black hole because of time dilation

eulerscheZahl: * reduce odds of larger group gatherings

  • prevent accidents with already full hospitals

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: you can always do that Godel closed timelike curve thing

MSmits: they always talk about stuff going into black holes, but it takes an infinite amount of time, as seen from an outside observer

eulerscheZahl: personally i'm just happy when it remains silent. i want to sleep at night and my cat easily panics

MSmits: which means from our perspective, nothing has ever fallen in

jacek: no spaghettization?

MSmits: oh yes that still happens, it just takes a long time

MSmits: but stuff doesnt actually go over the event horizon

MSmits: it just gets nearer

MSmits: forever

MSmits: asymptotically

Astrobytes: that's even worse than ending up in it

MSmits: kinda yeah, also i have to add that from the person falling into's perspective, he just falls in normally

MSmits: it's just while he is falling in, the entire universe ends

eulerscheZahl: i really recommend Futurama to you MSmits. have you watched it already?

MSmits: because an infintie amount of time will pass from the universe's perspectiv

MSmits: nope, you have recommended it before though

eulerscheZahl: and i'll do it again

MSmits: i might if it shows up on a streaming service

eulerscheZahl: it also contains a hypnotoad

MSmits: like netflix or prime or disney

Astrobytes: Futurama is awesome, you'll like it MSmits

MSmits: I'm convinced

eulerscheZahl: and lots of jokes that you only get if you pause the video

MSmits: because they take a bit of time?

MSmits: sounds like easter eggs


eulerscheZahl: most of the Futurama authors even have a degree in maths or physics before they switched to comedy

MSmits: nice

MSmits: has the TSP in there :)

jacek: i think there was some proof made for episode

Astrobytes: small details/jokes embedded in Simpsons and Futurama since the dawn of each series

MSmits: I could never get into simpsons


Astrobytes: *visual jokes

jacek: that reminds me of stargate episode when they switched bodies

MSmits: ah yeah

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: do other countries make funny cartoons we never hear about in the US?

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: that cartoon about the penis man

MSmits: someone has the link?

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: I mean like a series...

MSmits: it's actually for kids

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: that's what i mean


jacek: funny cartoons not made by us?

Astrobytes: John Dillermand

eulerscheZahl: there was a simpsons episode where Apu said the 20000th digit of pi as proof of his memory. one simpson author asked a friend at NASA to use their super computer and compute it so it's correct

MSmits: haha yes thats it

Astrobytes: Danish cartoon to teach kids good values

jacek: 20000th digit pi is not much, even in 1990

MSmits: maybe too much for a private cpu

MSmits: yeah i think so, i was 9 then

MSmits: if i remember what our first pc was like... years later

jacek: " And on the witness stand, he reveals he knows the number pi to 400,000 digits. "The last number is one," he says."

eulerscheZahl: oh, 400k my bad

jacek: where did euler get 20000 from :thinking:

MSmits: same order of magnitude :P

jacek: 20k vs 400k?

MSmits: well almost

struct: the last number of the 400k is 1?

MSmits: whats another factor of 20 :P

Astrobytes: lol

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: hey, I have the perfect contrib for that

MSmits: for john dillermand?

jacek: if it were that easy, you should jump straight from 7x6 to 9x7 by now

eulerscheZahl: i saw a paper by Hoare about quicksort efficiency once. he compared with merge sort and estimated the runtime for 5k values as he didn't have enough RAM

Pisik: hi

MSmits: eh no, 7x6 times 20 is not 9x7, try times 20,000

MSmits: or so

MSmits: 7x6 takes me an hour or less

MSmits: I have months of calc time into 9x7

eulerscheZahl: i really admire your passion

MSmits: :)

jacek: and you havent started solving nine men morris?

eulerscheZahl: topcoder is great for me: 1 week and then it's over

MSmits: i havent finished writing the code jacek, but i have the index function of 9mm, so the hardest part is done

MSmits: as soon as i get bored with oware again, 9mm gets finished

MSmits: still going to make a nn for that

MSmits: (both of those)

jacek: :sleeping:

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: You guys need to help the new mods, they are afraid to ban and the 13yos are running all over them

MSmits: i dont know if they will be any good, it will depend on how nn trained on solved values compare with the azero method

Astrobytes: :innocent:

Astrobytes: Not my problem any more :D

MSmits: it's not just a problem, it's also a solution

MSmits: having mod powers means you can get rid of annoyances

MSmits: well... some of them

Astrobytes: I don't get annoyed, I just chuckle about it

MSmits: hmm ok, some people really get annoyed

MSmits: I think it's annoying when they disrupt a conversation, otherwise it doesnt bother me

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: I always thought there was just one 13yo who kept respawning, but I guess there are a bunch of them

Astrobytes: The webchat has been hysterically bad the past few weeks. And the discord...

MSmits: how was the discord?

jacek: discord, as the name implies...

MSmits: I see

Astrobytes: Spammy kids everywhere talking nonsense

eulerscheZahl: i've already left discord as it annoyed me too much

MSmits: i thought discord had more activity than this webchat

eulerscheZahl: was always low on activity

MSmits: oh ok

eulerscheZahl: then they added even more channels to it

MSmits: yeah, but thats a problem for any discord i've been on, always too many channels

eulerscheZahl: when you have more channels than active users, something is wrong

Astrobytes: there's been a significant degradation in quality of conversation the past few weeks

MSmits: until today

eulerscheZahl: share that christmas poem

Astrobytes: lol

MSmits: who wrote a poem?/

eulerscheZahl: some newbie user

MSmits: is it any good?

eulerscheZahl: it's a prime example of degrading quality

BlaiseEbuth: Share it.

MSmits: i see, so earlier poems were better?

eulerscheZahl: i think it's the first of that kind

eulerscheZahl: i left so i dont have access

MSmits: ok so we're talking about a pioneer ?


MSmits: seems like rap lyrics

BlaiseEbuth: Bot poem

Astrobytes: that's in the main codingame channel, not even the talk about anything one

MSmits: i cant judge the quality of those, they're all equally crap to me :p\

Astrobytes: anyway, afk, cooking

MSmits: ah, years since i last cooked anything

eulerscheZahl: afk eating see you

jacek: oO

MSmits: see because i dont need to cook to get sustenance, i can do more sermons jacek

jacek: sure, why not

jacek: if this keeps you alive

MSmits: yep

MSmits: normally i eat some stuff in addition to the nutrition shakes, but trying to lose a little weight, so these last 2 weeks it's been just the shakes

MSmits: 2k calories is a little low, so it works

jacek: use intermittent fasting [solved]

MSmits: nah, no need, just not buying a bag of popcorn every other day is simple enough

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: when the smallpox hits this year we'll all lose weight

MSmits: i think you mistake us for an anti-vaxx bubble :P

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: huh? smallpox vax works really well

MSmits: yeah, so we wont lose weight :)

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: if you can get it, sure

MSmits: ohh right this is one of those vaccines people dont get automatically

MSmits: i forget which diseases are included

Husoski: Is anyone still vaxxing for smallpox? I was 'cause I'm that old, but I don't think my kids were. It's too long gone.

MSmits: yeah apparently it is

MSmits: too long gone

MSmits: polio and measles still do though

jacek: anither extinct species :(

MSmits: i think more new viruses are made than go extinct :P

MSmits: animals natural habitats reduce

Husoski: So was anthrax, except that military labs kept it for bio-weaponry...makes one wonder

MSmits: virus natural habitats increase

MSmits: I'm sure lots of stuff gets kept in labs and are made. You just dont need labs to make deadly viruses. They happen naturally

MSmits: it's weird how some people are more quick to assume a new virus comes from a lab than from a natural origin, even though the natural way happens extremely often

MSmits: The whole world is one massive lab

MSmits: can't compete with that

Husoski: I was wondering if smallpox was still in a lab somewhere, not speculating about SARS-COV-2

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: The FDA approved a new smallpox vaccine last year, specifically in case bad guys pull it out of a lab. Tembexa

Husoski: Interesting. Sure sound like USA has it on hand then, and suspects that someone else might too?

Astrobytes: I preferred the days when hallucinogenic substances used to escape from labs...

Husoski: I remember those...or at least I think they're memories?

Astrobytes: heh heh

eulerscheZahl: looks like i'm late to the party

MSmits: I wonder if I've seen that one before

MSmits: I don't remember why you don't kiss pigs

MSmits: watched the first 5 mins. I think i did see this one before

Astrobytes: gotta love John Oliver

MSmits: yeah

eulerscheZahl: i do, he always does those funny things just to annoy others. like the giant cake which was refused by the Guinness book, the rabbit book or the musical of insults

Astrobytes: lol, right :D

MSmits: didnt he make a giant train thing for some town?


eulerscheZahl: oh, that must have been before i started watching him

Astrobytes: hehehe awesome :D

eulerscheZahl: great one

eulerscheZahl: the world's largest model train track is in hamburg, germany btw

eulerscheZahl: the Wunderland

Astrobytes: yeah I've seen that

Astrobytes: some dedication put into that


Astrobytes: oh wow

Astrobytes: it's had an upgrade

eulerscheZahl: they connected the neighboring building with a bridge as they ran out of space

Astrobytes: incredible job on the Brazilian section

Astrobytes: will they keep expanding? I hope so

eulerscheZahl: video says that they will open new regions in 2022 and also have plans for the time after

eulerscheZahl: took them 20 years to fill the first building, now they just started in the 2nd

eulerscheZahl: with around 300 employees alread

eulerscheZahl: y

eulerscheZahl: my parents have seen it in person, were really impressed

Astrobytes: Hm, I didn't catch that part. That's awesome. It's incredibly good and far bigger than the last time I saw it (not in person sadly).

eulerscheZahl: currently they want realistic formula 1 races with overtaking and such. their old street design won't work there, so they designed their own chips to create magnetic fields for steering

Astrobytes: Haha! Now that's dedication, I like that

eulerscheZahl: enough chatting for today. i blame the vaccine for being tired even sooner than usual ;)

Astrobytes: Hehehe, see you later man, have a nice rest

eulerscheZahl: and cat tells me to go to bed as well

Astrobytes: :D

jacek: so you go to bed now :older_man:

eulerscheZahl: not before doing:

**eulerscheZahl slaps jacek around a bit with a large fishbot

Astrobytes: hahaha

derjack: :rage:

jacek: ecuador!

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: earthquake?

jacek: princess luna is best pony ~

Default avatar.png glyphi208: who is luna

jacek: a best pony

booleancub3: hello bois

booleancub3: happy new years eve

booleancub3: its about to be new years

ninjadip: in eight hours here

Blokops: 10 here

traagel: 40 minutes

traagel: to 2022 new set of disasters

Blokops: is all a steady decline uphill

Ruskin: Was NYE nearly 10 hours ago here

Astrobytes: happy new year Ruskin

Ruskin: You too Astrobytes!

jacek: happy Caturday then

Astrobytes: indeed :cat:

Astrobytes: not for another 2 hours here though

Astrobytes: aren't you only 1 hour ahead jacek?

Astrobytes: (of UK I mean)

bool3: the start of the year is a saturdy

bool3: thats a good sign

Default avatar.png DropThePress: 7.5 hours away in California

Default avatar.png DropThePress: Oops, 9.5 hours ^^

zakacat: We got the same time zone here on Vancouver Island

zakacat: I think time zones are dumb?

zakacat: Do we even need em anymore>

zakacat: ?

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: why do we all live different places? that's dumb

zakacat: Yah

zakacat: ur right

zakacat: we should all be stacked vertically

Astrobytes: Humans are dumb.

Cr4shOverride: New york is way ahead of you

zakacat: haha, definitely

Default avatar.png AmineACH51: Hello world

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: Terrible start to the new year. The PP size contrib has been rejected

e_fishel: It was fair and square

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: Yeah, I guess the testes cases needed more work

e_fishel: no

e_fishel: it's about the problem itself

e_fishel: it's not about the test cases

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: Fair enough. If your rejection lasts more than four hours, please see a doctor

jacek: oO

Remus_: Doing Code Vs Zombies and debug logging makes my code pass, and fail without logging... I love timing bugs

Astrobytes: you like bugs that involve timing issues or you actually like to time your bugs?

jacek: :3

Remus_: I like to time making bugs on days when I'm not in the mood of fixing them

Astrobytes: gotta pass the time somehow I guess :D

Remus_: masochism I guess

Astrobytes: hehehehe

Astrobytes: I guess it's after midnight or a war has begun in my area

Remus_: war probably if you live in Ukraine

Astrobytes: UK, close enough :rofl:

Remus_: oh, flushing in debug print might fck the timing :joy:

Remus_: just might

Astrobytes: python?

Remus_: yeah

Astrobytes: yes it will

Astrobytes: flush stdout

Astrobytes: or something

Astrobytes: It's in the forum somewhere

Remus_: now it fails consistently! reproducibility is nice

Astrobytes: no wait, flush everything

Astrobytes: Ugh, I'm confused

jacek: its flushing automatically with endline

Astrobytes: It's late, I've had a beer or two

Astrobytes: on stderr?

jacek: only two?

Astrobytes: well, 6

Remus_: those are rookie numbers

Astrobytes: I'm Scottish, the night is only beginning, I am about to open my whisky

Remus_: I've continued with whisky after

the midnight champagne

Astrobytes: Excellent choice :)

jacek: no gin lovers?

Remus_: Not scotch though, I've never tried that

MSmits: noggin' lovers?

Remus_: noggin?


Remus_: This content is not available in your current location. rip

MSmits: aww

MSmits: I guess you can't learn with the characters you love then

Astrobytes: noggin means your head here

MSmits: who's head?

Astrobytes: or like a small drink

Astrobytes: My noggin is my head, your noggin is your head

MSmits: sounds like the start of some excellent lyrics

Astrobytes: Regarding whisky I do have a Scotch this year, a 10 yr old Glenmorangie gifted by a friend

MSmits: I thought I'd lower the complexity of my humor, but you guys aren't drunk enough yet

Astrobytes: Not my usual, but a great whisky

Astrobytes: lol MSmits

Astrobytes: I only start getting drunk now

MSmits: ok good to know

Astrobytes: *from now

jacek: your humor?

MSmits: indeed

MSmits: more drink jacek

jacek: or more weed

MSmits: works

MSmits: I'll do some more sermons about black holes if you do weed. You'll love it

Remus_: I'm interested

MSmits: good good

Astrobytes: throw some mushrooms in there and he'll explain brane cosmology

MSmits: earlier i was saying how nothing has ever fallen into a black hoke

MSmits: hole

MSmits: nah, I don't do branes

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: we could talk about dark matter and energy, and I could predictably say they are just made up nonsense

Astrobytes: A black hoke

Astrobytes: Brane-based theory is awesome though

MSmits: wouldn't say made up nonsense, just names for holes in our knowledge

MSmits: the word dark here just means unknown

Astrobytes: ^ best reply ever

jacek: dark energy is like bias in NN. it fills the gaps

jacek: or matter

Astrobytes: (off-topic a little but I have a Dark Energy II synthesiser)

MSmits: cool

MSmits: does it expand your universe?

Remus_: booo

Astrobytes: It's a cool instrument, it expanded my sonic vocabulary

Remus_: MSmits do you buy into the fuzzball stuff?

MSmits: fuzzball, do you mean hairy black holes?

MSmits: like information being stuck on the surface of a black hole?

Astrobytes: Also got a Dark Time sequencer too, both analogue. Made in Germany by Doepfer

MSmits: physicists don't really understand time, the prefix dark would be redundant

Remus_: It's about black holes only having surface and they have no volume (no space-time in there as far as I understood it)

Astrobytes: (it's just a name, it's a voltage based controller device)

MSmits: yeah that's the geometry they have Remus_

MSmits: it's the only thing that would make sense to me, if nothing has ever fallen into a black hole and it's completely disconnected from the rest of the universe, then the volume of it is meaningless

Astrobytes: Things don't have to make sense...

MSmits: That too, but it's a bonus

MSmits: if they do

Astrobytes: That's how we get more things to solve/investigate :D

Astrobytes: yes true

Remus_: I was referring to this before

MSmits: I just think it's really weird that these astrophysicists always talk about what would happen if you fell into a black hole when that's impossible

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: I haven't kept up with physics lately. Last I new the accelerators were about at the end of the roadmap, and string theory looked to be impossible to prove true or false

jacek: it doesnt need to make sense. as long as it works...

Default avatar.png MrCalindo: happy new year everyone

MSmits: it's like going faster than light, you can discuss that meaningfully either

MSmits: it's outside possible physics given the laws

Remus_: Happy new year!

MSmits: can't

MSmits: happy ny!

Astrobytes: MSmits: I think it's more of a popularisation technique rather than a serious communication to other physicists

jacek: new year? did we travel in time :thinking:

MSmits: yeah but it bugs me because they also say in those documentaries that time slows to a standstill when you're falling in

MSmits: so while popularizing they make it sound like a paradox

MSmits: when it's not

Astrobytes: Yes, that's fair

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: Gateway does it right I think

Astrobytes: They should say it tends towards time standing still

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: Fred Pohl

Astrobytes: For one observer

Remus_: so you can only fall onto a black hole (onto its surface, this might not be proper English though :grin:)

MSmits: yeah, but more accurately, you will approach it asymptotically

MSmits: it will evaporate before you ever hit the surface

MSmits: because evaporation takes a finite time

MSmits: and falling onto it takes in infinite amount of time

MSmits: an

Astrobytes: oh fuzzballs, gotcha now

Remus_: wouldn't you also speed up as the mass decreases and its effect on time gets smaller?

MSmits: well speeding up is kind of a very complicated statement when both velocity, the passage of time, the mass and the radius of the black hole change

MSmits: both as in, all 4 of those things ( i thought of 2 more while tpying)

DialFrost: strange how come my code golf rank isnt increasing

Astrobytes: Isn't this different for the fuzzball model vs classical black hole?

MSmits: not sure, i am not that knowledgable about string theory

Mrs.GloriaZindlebocker: did they ever figure out if a black hole can destroy information?

MSmits: I think they agree it doesn't

MSmits: mostly

Remus_: how does Hawking radiation works with no volume though

MSmits: hawking radiation happens outside the hole

MSmits: doesn't need volume inside

Remus_: one half "sticks" to the surface then?

MSmits: it's just some negative energy that takes energy away from the hole, from the outside

MSmits: the positive part leaving the area completely

MSmits: yeah i guess sticks is an ok way to put it

MSmits: I always thought it's pretty bold to accept hawking radiation as truth the way they do though

MSmits: especially since there is no theory of quantum + general relativity

MSmits: well string theory tries to be but hawking radiation doesnt come from there

Astrobytes: the fuzzball absorbs information as well as losing from it's surface or something like that iirc

Kous92: Happy New Year 2022

Astrobytes: so it doesn't actually 'lose' information in the classical sense

DialFrost: nice u guys tlaking about thermal radiation in space on new year

DialFrost: <33

MSmits: it just uses fuzzy logic

MSmits: hawking radiation

MSmits: not thermal

MSmits: but we can do thermal

Astrobytes: Nah, it's not interesting enough

DialFrost: Hawking radiation is thermal radiation that is theorized to be released outside a black hole's event horizon

DialFrost: :/

Remus_: start the year as you want to spend the rest, drunk and talking about physics

MSmits: is it thermal?

MSmits: does it follow the same curve?

MSmits: i did not know that

MSmits: oh yeah, says it's thermal, cool

Astrobytes: thermal, really?

MSmits: yeah apparently, maybe the math comes down to the same distribution of photons

Astrobytes: This is only in classical models I assume

Remus_: I mean, it is a black body

MSmits: yeah ok but the mechanism is kinda different Remus_

Astrobytes: I hate thermodynamics :D

Astrobytes: (that's a relative hate)

Remus_: (implied ba dum tss :joy:)

MSmits: so, relativistic thermodynamics?

Astrobytes: :rofl:

MSmits: when you say classical model, do you mean non-quantum non-relativistic or both?

Astrobytes: Bit of both yes

MSmits: mmh ok

Astrobytes: Should have made that clearer since you're a physicist ;)

MSmits: I feel less of a physicist these days

MSmits: I teach 1 class, 3 hrs a week

Remus_: "The Hawking luminosity L

of the black hole is given by the usual Stefan-Boltzmann blackbody formula"

MSmits: and just fill in for my colleague

MSmits: yeah so thermal

Astrobytes: It's still there though, it doesn't go away. I'm still a biologist although not using it currently

MSmits: true

MSmits: i mean I am not really keeping it up

MSmits: when I read papers it's usually because of some game I am trying to solve :P

Astrobytes: Yeah I get that, been slacking a little recently too :D

MSmits: biology has been in the news more though

MSmits: so you can claim you're keeping up a bit

Astrobytes: (I've even been slacking at that until the last month or 2 until the Omicron variant)

Astrobytes: -1 'until'

MSmits: that omicron variant really confused people

MSmits: they don't know what to think anymore

MSmits: about lockdowns, vaccines etc.

MSmits: camps were clear before, with delta

MSmits: now it's like, umm what's next

Remus_: Alpha2

Astrobytes: It evades the immune system effectively, thus decreasing efficacy of the vaccines, booster showed higher resilience against it. Severity is still the same. Mortality is unknown right now

MSmits: severity is the same ?

MSmits: are you sure? I hear differently, a lot

Astrobytes: Yes, in unvaxxed

MSmits: but why so much less hospitalization than expected?

Astrobytes: Plenty were asymptomatic or mild symptoms with all variants so far

MSmits: sure, but with the explosion of cases, don't you expect more hospitalization?

MSmits: it's higher than it ever was

Astrobytes: MSmits: Yes I do, soon

Astrobytes: But again, even only double vax still protects more

Astrobytes: Most hospitalisations are unvaxxed currently, at least here

MSmits: i wonder how sure they are of that

Astrobytes: they're not, it's an evolving situation

MSmits: i mean i would take the shots anyways, delta didn't go non-existent

Astrobytes: Hard to manage that in terms of public affairs

Remus_: 3rd (booster) does some good I hope, I've gotten it a few weeks ago

MSmits: omicron could burn out and delta could just come back

Astrobytes: Omicron is more effective at evading immunity

MSmits: yeah but it also spreads super fast and people get natural immunity to it that way

MSmits: then when they have it, delta could come back if they're not vaxxed

Astrobytes: That's what omicron is good at

Astrobytes: Evading immunity

MSmits: the current immunity, not all immunity right? The body obviously beats it or everyone would die of it

MSmits: so once you beat it...

MSmits: only delta is left

Astrobytes: It's quite a nasty little variant.

MSmits: for contagiousness yes

MSmits: but that also makes the waves more shortlived

Astrobytes: No that's silly. Everyone is different. But it is extremely good at reinfection, which creates more opportunities to mutate

MSmits: yeah thats true

Astrobytes: It's not just about spreadability

Astrobytes: or infectiousness rather

MSmits: why do we never worry about the common cold mutating into something bad?

MSmits: i mean it's always going around too

MSmits: plenty of opportunities

MSmits: i guess some viruses are more likely to succesfully mutate?

Astrobytes: yes

MSmits: or maybe the cold virus is already optimal for it's own survival and any mutation that makes it worse for us, makes it spread less efficiently

Astrobytes: it's a ... um, rhinovirus I believe

MSmits: also corona

MSmits: there's different viruses we call cold viruses i think

Astrobytes: yes correct

MSmits: you never hear about them mutating into something bad. It's always coming from some animal

Astrobytes: I think corona- and rhino- viruses are the main ones

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: I've probably had corona so many times

MSmits: it's just a different one

Astrobytes: but there's like hundreds of viruses that cause 'a cold'

MSmits: it's not really clear how different 2 viruses need to be to be called separate viruses

MSmits: there's thousands of covid versions too

MSmits: just not many of interest

Astrobytes: They need to be genetically different

MSmits: but they all are

Astrobytes: Significantly

MSmits: yeah but thats the word

MSmits: hard to define

Astrobytes: as in measurably significantly different

MSmits: sure, but there's much to measure

Astrobytes: genes with certain consequences etc

MSmits: it's not like physics where you have a handful of variables

Astrobytes: well, it's a lot easier these days to sequence viral genomes

MSmits: sure

MSmits: I wonder how long it will take before stuff like measles/polio comes back in serious amounts

Astrobytes: I have no idea where this particular virus originated from (originally I mean) but it's one tough MF

MSmits: this covid thing lowered vaccination rates for those as well

Astrobytes: they were already going down thanks to internet antivaxxers

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: i think there needs to be some horror-stories about paralyzed children and such before people start to take it seriously

MSmits: it's going to happen again

MSmits: if you read up on the history of this, it's horrifying

Astrobytes: Death is no longer substantive evidence for vaccine abstention

MSmits: no but thats the thing, paralyzed children aren;t dead

Astrobytes: That's what I'm saying

MSmits: ahh ok

Astrobytes: (I could have worded it better)

MSmits: no i get it now

Astrobytes: (blame the whisky)

MSmits: I've realized something the other day

MSmits: you always hear about children being damaged by lockdowns and such

MSmits: but my sense is, their own social media addiction hurts them more than the lockdowns ever did

MSmits: and noone seems to take that seriously

MSmits: 3-5 hrs a day is the average

Astrobytes: Well yes indeed. All our priorities are backwards :D

Astrobytes: (not 'ours' per se, but you know what I mean)

Remus_: for one, online classes are much less effective than irl ones

Astrobytes: Depends on age and subject

MSmits: yes it does, but on average he's right

MSmits: my point is not that it's not less effective

Astrobytes: Yeah not disagreeing

MSmits: my point is that their addiction damages them far more

MSmits: 3-5 hrs a day is insane

Astrobytes: absolutely

MSmits: and thats the *average*

Astrobytes: I was about to add I know far more under-18s who spend wayyyy longer than that

MSmits: every spare minute they stare at their machines

MSmits: there's no time to think

MSmits: it turns them into machines themselves

MSmits: if all you do is social media + work + sports + sleep, you are a machine

Astrobytes: work 5-7 days a week 9-5 also makes you a machine, good for nothing

MSmits: yeah but after 5 you got spare time at least

Astrobytes: (outside of those hours)

MSmits: with those smart-phones it's filled up with bs

MSmits: oh ok

MSmits: you mean for being tired

MSmits: sure yeah

Astrobytes: consider most people get up at 5 or 6 to start a 8am or 9am start job (commute time)

MSmits: that's bad too

Astrobytes: work-life and now + tech balance is very important

MSmits: so the social media thing just puts more pressure on this problem

Remus_: home office ftw in that regard

Astrobytes: yes exactly MSmits

Astrobytes: And yes Remus_

MSmits: my view is, there shouldnt even be balancing needed. Tech should be helpful not harmful

Astrobytes: You utopian idealist you! :D

MSmits: indeed :)

Astrobytes: On that note, I'm off to drink and eat :D

MSmits: have fun

Astrobytes: See you later guys and have an excellent night

MSmits: you too

Stilgart: have fun Astrobytes

Astrobytes: (good chat btw)

MSmits: yup

Remus_: good night

Astrobytes: And you Stilgart

Stilgart: and happy new year to everyone

Astrobytes: :)

DialFrost: morning

DialFrost: <33

____Z_X_C____: morning

creeperZnation4: Happy New Years!!! (for half the world)

____Z_X_C____: lol

SoulsTogether: Happy new years.

Default avatar.png xyh_from_China: Happy new year!

____Z_X_C____: hi anyone take a look at my puzzle?


Jerrasterix: Happy new year !!!