Chat:World/2021-08-14

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xxd: oof, it doesnt work on Cross

xxd: fixed^

xxd: is it possible to do Mars Lander with MC, or must it be done with GA?

Uljahn: it's possible to do Mars Lander with plain PID

KiwiTae: i did ml3 with simple pid without checking the physics

xxd: wow

xxd: 100%?

KiwiTae: yes but didnt get the extra achievment yet

xxd: I need to read up on PID

xxd: the extent of my knowledge about PID controllers right now is "-3v == good" :joy:

KiwiTae: i lend one test with 0fuel lol

xxd: at least you pass it :)

KiwiTae: yea hehe

ProCoder03: @wontonimo usually keeps on saying to use 25v in Mars lander 2

xxd: :o

**michaellan writes that down

ProCoder03: Wait !! how do you guys do the 2nd statement, can you share the format for it pls. ?

xxd: mars lander?

ProCoder03: Nahh...

michaellan: not sure what you mean then

ProCoder03: that " * xxd writes that down" one

ProCoder03: Is it just a * b4 message

ProCoder03: ??

**KiwiTae lala

KiwiTae: "/me + msg"

**ProCoder03 I just tried

ProCoder03: Its working !!

ProCoder03: Thanks @KiwiTae

KiwiTae: there is a ? button bottom r corner of the chat you got all the cmds there

ProCoder03: ohhh... I just now realized there is a button down there :sweat_smile:

**xxd slaps ProCoder03 around a bit with a large fishbot

xxd: the heck is a fishbot

eulerscheZahl: this is a coding site, you should know what a bot is

xxd: yeah but fishbot...

**xxd slaps eulerscheZahl with a large (300LOC) MCTSbot

xxd: :)

eulerscheZahl: it's a bot for fishy adventure

eulerscheZahl: https://github.com/CodinGame/game-fishy-adventures

eulerscheZahl: here's a screenshot of it: https://www.codingame.com/playgrounds/25775/codingame-sdk-documentation/create-an-optimization-game

Default avatar.png JLasfdgh: ii

xxd: wholesome fishbot

eulerscheZahl: somehow that puzzle never got released

eulerscheZahl: wouldn't be a good optim (your fish can only go up and down while always moving 1 to the right)

eulerscheZahl: but the optimal solution can be found with some dynamic programming, would do an okay puzzle

xxd: ah

xxd: is there an obvious reason im unaware of why poker variants arent a game on codingame?

xxd: is it the luck aspect

xxd: or maybe the trolling aspect i guess, which would prevent any sort of betting games from being viable

eulerscheZahl: probably that and that no one bothered creating such a game

eulerscheZahl: but i wouldn't be happy if someone did

xxd: why?

eulerscheZahl: because of the luck aspect you mentioned

eulerscheZahl: it might be fun to play for humans (for some at least). but those bot fights should have a clear hierarchy of who's best

eulerscheZahl: there is some rock-paper-scissors going on. but not completely random

xxd: yeah true

xxd: are you a university student?

eulerscheZahl: i graduated as a Master in 2018

xxd: oh nice

eulerscheZahl: afk for breakfast

xxd: how popular is simulated annealing? Haven't seen it mentioned much. GA seems a lot more talked about

eulerscheZahl: here on CG it's not that popular. On Topcoder it's pretty common

eulerscheZahl: Topcoder organizes optimization contests regularly

xxd: alright thanks

xxd: good night, and have a good day

eulerscheZahl: timezones... good night

jacek: happy Caturday

eulerscheZahl: that too

jrke: its caturday!

martinpapa69: :cat2:

Default avatar.png dmin: hello!

J[]HN_WICK: https://www.codingame.com/clashofcode/clash/19152177f3fee02a89c0bb721763ab754d5e960

martinpapa69: what you just did mister, is illegal

eulerscheZahl: :hammer:

Thyl: hi !

jacek: good morning

Default avatar.png dmin: good morning!

tekki: hello world

tekki: one word automaton2000

Automaton2000: then i dont know the answer to life, the universe and everything

3283415: 👽️

PaarthThePro: :santa:

Default avatar.png Mikel-Dev: 42?

Default avatar.png heloche: hello, is someone hiring c++ dev ?

Default avatar.png heloche: I only cost 200k/year

eulerscheZahl: Euros?

Westicles: rupees

eulerscheZahl: the profile says France. That speaks for Euros

eulerscheZahl: the "only" on the other hand does not

eulerscheZahl: i'm not hiring, i'm employed myself. it's unlikely that you'll find a job here on this chat. Just as a hint: your main selling point should be your skills, not your low salary ;)

MSmits: is it weird I thought of legend of zelda when Westicles said rupees. I never realized that is an actual currency :P

Pi3.14: Besides condingame, where can i practice and improve my programming skills?

eulerscheZahl: what do you think they use to pay bills in India?

eulerscheZahl: there are tons of websites. if you want to go in the direction of clashes/puzzles

eulerscheZahl: codeforces.com hackerrank.com atcoder.[forgot the TLD]

eulerscheZahl: codechef.com

eulerscheZahl: projecteuler.net (more math problems)

Pi3.14: i'm already on my 4th year in bscs but I think I don't have enough skills to become a programmer

eulerscheZahl: there's even a list of current and upcoming contests: https://clist.by/

Pi3.14: okay thanks for the suggestions eulerscheZahl :)

eulerscheZahl: well, becoming a programmer and those puzzle sites are 2 different things. they are both about coding

eulerscheZahl: but for the puzzles you just rush something to get a green checkmark

eulerscheZahl: professional work is more about readable code that you can extend at a later point. using design patterns that other developers can understand

jacek: so is agile programming

eulerscheZahl: using common frameworks and not just the language itself

Pi3.14: Noted, thank you. :)

ProCoder03: how to add elements to certain index in a empty list in py ???

Alfredb: You can't. The list must be big enough

Alfredb: You could initialise a list with for example 10 zeros with `a=[0]*10`

ProCoder03: Thanks @Alfredb !!

eulerscheZahl: or you use a dictionary if you only want to use a few indices

ProCoder03: :thumps_up:

ProCoder03: *:thumbsup:

MSmits: well, apparently they use zelda-money eulerscheZahl :P

jacek: zelda, that green guy?

**jacek hides

ProCoder03: Is Mayan Calculation similar to ascii arts ??

Hunter64TheOne: ils sont ou les paramètres d'heure, ici ?

Hunter64TheOne: excuse me

Hunter64TheOne: they are or the time settings, here?

eulerscheZahl: deepl from Fr to En sounds more understandable. Do you want to change your timezone?

Hunter64TheOne: yes

eulerscheZahl: i assume it takes some system time that it gets from the browser

eulerscheZahl: at least I don't find it at https://www.codingame.com/settings

Rob022: Trump is coming back 🤣

Default avatar.png Svat623: :tumbler_glass::cucumber:

Westicles: Southampton, eh? I use to visit Titchfield regularly, lovely country out there

AntiSquid: Rob022 coming back to what? same circus different clowns lol

jacek: eulerscheZahl crazy gibberish?

Rob022: Who knows lol

eulerscheZahl: did jacek just call me crazy glibberish?

Rob022: FIGHT

Rob022: 1v1 bro down

jacek: refering to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwODwwgE6rA

jacek: [legit link]

eulerscheZahl: ah, i remember that scene

AntiSquid: sounded like french version of rickroll to me ...

TobiasA: RIP french

Default avatar.png dmin: clash of code is kinda like leetcode easy, right?

AntiSquid: you didn't do much on leetcode did you ?

eulerscheZahl: leetcode is significantly harder than clashes

eulerscheZahl: and leetcode is only like fastest mode. no golfing or reverse tasks

Default avatar.png dmin: thanks for the insight

seshoumara: how can I disable the bash assistant? I do "read n" then enter, it puts some random word begining with n, stupid.

eulerscheZahl: use an offline editor. that's all you can do to disable it

Uljahn: to disable the assistant i blocked lsp-community.codingame.com via umatrix addon (also could be done via hosts file)

seshoumara: thank you

jacek: no one likes clipphy assistant

Swyfti: i did it

Swyfti: legend league no.54th

Swyfti: and... i am an official master now

Swyfti: making a climb to grandmaster

seshoumara: congrats!

jacek: legend where

Noyotens: @Swyfti legend in what??

jacek: oh, codebusters

eulerscheZahl: wow congrats. that's an impressive bot Swyfti. Mind if I ask you a question about it?

jacek: you mean 2 questions :v

eulerscheZahl: so, when you copied the bot: did you use CTRL+C, CTRL+V or rightclick+copy, rightclick+paste? https://www.codingame.com/replay/575640171 https://www.codingame.com/replay/575640297

jacek: oO

jacek: euler is no fun

jacek: great minds think alike

eulerscheZahl: i even compared the exact outputs https://eulerschezahl.herokuapp.com/codingame/replays/reproduce/?id=575640297

jacek: maybe this is the optimal route

eulerscheZahl: we both know that it's not

eulerscheZahl: too bad swyfti is offline now. carry my message for him

juice0: man why copy code and then brag about it in chat?

eulerscheZahl: dunno. you can impress me more by reaching silver all by your own

reCurse: Wasn't there another clown who did that recently?

eulerscheZahl: i don't remember anyone in particular. but there are lots of them

GroutchKeu: wait you mean professional developers aren't professional copy/pasters?

GroutchKeu: damn :|

reCurse: Maybe in the clownish dev shops

eulerscheZahl: there's a difference between taking that one algo or library that does the job for you and paying that guy on fiverr to do your job and then ask for a raise

juice0: there's also a difference between using someone else's work and pretending it's your own

reCurse: Though I did hear of a somewhat similar practice of outsourcers further outsourcing their work to cheaper devs

eulerscheZahl: he already did that with his profile pic, claiming it was his own work

eulerscheZahl: turned out he cropped it on his own

reCurse: Oh yeah

reCurse: That's true actually

reCurse: What a clown

juice0: i might just be way on my side of the fence though. hell i put acknowledgements to people whose forum posts helped me out on euler's sokoban puzzle (IIRC)

juice0: in comments

reCurse: That's nice

BlaiseEbuth: Was the code that he copied known to be available somewhere? Or did the other guy shared it with him only?

reCurse: I think euler memorized all CG bots posted on github

xxd: aw thats disappointing to hearr

TobiasA: i always new swyfti was sus:joy:

TobiasA: knew

TobiasA: :expressionless:

xxd: hes only in junior high, something was sus :thinking:

reCurse: It's not about school it's about behavior

TobiasA: it was just too fast

xxd: yeah forget what i said

reCurse: Those clowns all follow the same pattern

reCurse: Insecure to the core

reCurse: Anyway

TobiasA: in two days or so he reached legend

xxd: i reached legend sorta fast for UTTT

xxd: but

xxd: i did get some help

TobiasA: i guess i am just slow

xxd: no

MiyamuraIzumi: nice

xxd: i gott lucky

MiyamuraIzumi: I still in bronze on UTTT

reCurse: To be fair uttt is relatively simple to get legend on

TobiasA: how does one even represent the board for uttt

reCurse: Some will disagree with me I'm sure

xxd: also MiyamuraIzumi: your CvZ is still ~200 places higher thtan mine

xxd: i have 209k points on it right

xxd: now

reCurse: But the fact you just need to code a vanilla search algorithm with no heuristic needed and just basic optimization gets you there

reCurse: Can't say that for a lot of multis

xxd: but i did manage to get it working yesterday

xxd: yeah

xxd: im not sure why you hate it so much according to astrobytes

MiyamuraIzumi: too fast

xxd: is it because of its simplicity?

reCurse: It's a terrible game

xxd: :(

Rob022: code in binary like a pro

reCurse: It's completely obtuse to read

xxd: true

reCurse: It's unbalanced to hell and beyond

reCurse: It's not fun to watch

MiyamuraIzumi: it took me serveral weeks for cvz

xxd: how many playouts per turn MiyamuraIzumi

xxd: I'm only getting around 15k I think

xxd: more towards the end though but still

eulerscheZahl: BlaiseEbuth i just got suspicious by his fast climb (took much much longer to reach legend) so i compared with the bot of a well known cheater

reCurse: On a more serious note did anyone get around to try thompson sampling with mcts?

MiyamuraIzumi: don't remember

MiyamuraIzumi: more than 100k

xxd: wow

xxd: C++?

MiyamuraIzumi: C

TobiasA: i've never used MCTS in my life

xxd: wow

TobiasA: i'm scared

xxd: its so fun when it works

MiyamuraIzumi: I just thought that C is faster than c+

xxd: yeah i think it is a bit faster but theres not ergonomic semantics

TobiasA: but what if it doesn't work

eulerscheZahl: "To be fair uttt is relatively simple to get legend on" for me personally UTTT and Wondev Woman were the hardest legends of all

xxd: well u just gotta pour more hours into making it work

TobiasA: debugging those stuff doesn't sound nice

reCurse: I can see for WW but UTTT I super disagree

reCurse: Vanilla mcts and basic optimization that's all you need

reCurse: No brain needed

xxd: :/

reCurse: Just code the spec

eulerscheZahl: i'm terrible at writing fast code

xxd: yeah the simulation is easy and easy to bitboard too

xxd: wait. reCurse what do you mean exactly by basic optimization

reCurse: Basic knowledge of what makes code fast or slow

juice0: my pride in my uTTT bot that looks 4 moves ahead is quickly shrinking

eulerscheZahl: and I recently realized i had a major misunderstanding in MCTS. I used the rollout count of the root instead of direct parent node

reCurse: You need both in uct

michaellan: what?

michaellan: isnt it just parentt

reCurse: sqrt(log(parent)/child)

reCurse: From memory

michaellan: yeah there's no root in there

michaellan: i think he meant like the actual root of the tree

eulerscheZahl: and i did something with root and child

michaellan: i hate how once we start using these cool algorithms and approaches, they always involve simulation :joy:

michaellan: simulation is sometimes so painful to write ,and get right and not buggy

reCurse: So... just like code?

michaellan: true

michaellan: i'm gonna learn GA next

reCurse: Do it for the knowledge

reCurse: But don't spend too much time on it

reCurse: A lot of it I find convoluted and unnecessary imo

michaellan: oh, was gonna do Mars Lander optim with GA

michaellan: someone yesterday saaid PID controllers alone was enough

reCurse: You can basically boil it down to "try random solutions, keep the best and only partially randomize those afterwards"

michaellan: like MC but with some sort of pruning?

michaellan: and crossover

reCurse: Once they start talking about chromosomes and crossover and all that you can close the tab

michaellan: hah

TobiasA: :laughing:

michaellan: maybe i'll learn and use simulated annealing for ML optim then

reCurse: That's a better investment

michaellan: my dad keeps telling me about it, i think he likes it

michaellan: awesome

TobiasA: cool dad

Porsuk: do we always make the first move in UTTT on the top left board?

reCurse: Dead center

michaellan: my MCTS tells me center (4, 4)

Porsuk: IDE acts that way but it's not written in the rules

Porsuk: dead center?

michaellan: dead center is the coordinates 4 4

michaellan: i have some utility functiions to help with conversion if you're using bitboarding

michaellan: i think reCurse said that would be rated an easy puzzle, but still

reCurse: A lot of people think my opinions are misguided so take that with a grain of salt :P

Default avatar.png SabertheLost: Stupid random tick tack toe algo still not good enough to beat broze boss ;)

michaellan: lol

michaellan: my random.choice(available_moves) got me into bronze

Default avatar.png SabertheLost: 29.91 in ranking comapred to bromze boss 31.63. Ok it not total random. Only placement that will make me win or lose are chocen at random.

michaellan: why would you choose a placement that will make you lose

michaellan: wait you're already in bronze?

Default avatar.png SabertheLost: I do not do it. (aka so it nort part of the list of random placements9

michaellan: i suggest you learn MCTS now

michaellan: it will skyrocket you

michaellan: and you will have the biggest dopamine rush of your life

TobiasA: to what league?

michaellan: or at least i did

michaellan: to legend

Default avatar.png SabertheLost: Yeah I know I should take the leap.

TobiasA: hm

TobiasA: all the way from bronze?

michaellan: i had to make some speed optimizations

michaellan: well yeah i was in bronze

TobiasA: damn then MCTS is probably very difficult

TobiasA: if it is that effective

michaellan: it depends how many bugs you run into IMO

michaellan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXW2yZndl7U

michaellan: i dont know what the pros think of this video but i think its good

reCurse: It's actually easy but a lot of explanations are not that great

michaellan: reCurse: have you seen the video i listed above?

TobiasA: i've seen that video

michaellan: I think the only part thats wrong is he doesnt alternate win/loss propagation going up to the root

michaellan: or he might've and i missed it

TobiasA: the scary part is trying to implement it

reCurse: It's not wrong

michaellan: oh

reCurse: MCTS is applicable to a much broader range than adversarial games

reCurse: So it's not a given

michaellan: ah

reCurse: You could do it to optimize cvz for example

reCurse: Then there's no alternate propagation

michaellan: yeah understood

michaellan: silly mee

Default avatar.png SabertheLost: each time I start reading the MCTS is sooo many constants that I do understand the sentences they make.

michaellan: i wonder what the legend certification task is for the Optimization quest track

michaellan: there is not that many constants?

Default avatar.png SabertheLost: do not *

reCurse: I think starting with a basic multi-armed bandit example would do a lot of good in understanding mcts afterwards

reCurse: Because it's basically just adding a tree

TobiasA: is that a puzzle?

Default avatar.png SabertheLost: @reCurese I cannot find the multi-armed banit in the associated traning puzzels under Monte carlo

michaellan: if you have slot machines with different payout rates that you dont know, how do you maximize your winnings

reCurse: You have to look outside Codingame

TobiasA: oh

michaellan: you need to exploit the current slot machines with good payouts but you also need to explore the others occasionally

TobiasA: RL stuff yea?

reCurse: Not necessarily but yes

michaellan: apparently MCTS is not RL. I still dont know what countsa nd what doesnt

reCurse: I don't see how it's not in some ways

michaellan: yeah im not sure, eulerscheZahl just said it wasnt when i asked

reCurse: Maybe because it's typically viewed as learning offline

reCurse: But MCTS is a case for learning online

michaellan: oh i see

michaellan: so generally RL is an approach where you end up with those magical weights right

reCurse: No that's the thing it's much broader than that

michaellan: o

michaellan: anyway sounds like i have a lot of reading to do

reCurse: Semantics can get pretty confusing and I won't pretend I get those perfectly either

reCurse: Broadly speaking reinforcement learning is just training a behavior by reinforcement through rewards following actions taken

reCurse: The reason mcts qualifies is you train a policy or the action taken through simulated actions in the environment and getting the win/loss reward

reCurse: Generally though you mean it's learning to generalize to most scenarios whereas mcts only trains on a specific scenario

michaellan: hmm i dont get what you mean by that last part

michaellan: OH

michaellan: like for example in CvZ

reCurse: After you're done with 10k simulations on the root state you only gained knowledge about the root state

reCurse: When you go to the next state you have to restart from scratch

reCurse: Hence the online part

michaellan: it twould be the same set of weights regardless of the initial setup

michaellan: wait wontonimo told me to do the thing where I just re-root the selected child as the new root

michaellan: instead of throwing away my entire tree

reCurse: When you go to a completely different state

michaellan: yeah i see, i understand

reCurse: What you searched previously doesn't help you

michaellan: interesting

reCurse: So reinforcement learning tries to accumulate knowledge to generalize to most situations

reCurse: I mean how the term is typically used

reCurse: Even though it doesn't have to

michaellan: ah

michaellan: semantics :rage:

TobiasA: scitnames

TobiasA: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

xxd: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

TobiasA: :0

michaellan: thats me when i realize i need to use std::array to get copies

michaellan: instead of C arrays

TobiasA: that's me when i found out that there is something called std::array

TobiasA: or C arrays

michaellan: broke: using compute clusters for crypto mining. woke: using compute clusters to train your Codingame NN bot :sunglasses:

TobiasA: :muscle::nerd:

reCurse: Not that big of a fan of cloud computing

reCurse: It's so expensive

michaellan: i feel like if i try to start CGFunge Prime it will be a huge rabbithole

michaellan: with no good end result

reCurse: Just do what's fun to you

TobiasA: what's CGFunge prime?

michaellan: its where you have to code in PHP to see if a number is prime

michaellan: (sorta)

michaellan: :smirk:

michaellan: mars lander optim seems really really really hard

michaellan: the stupid collision sound is so darn loud too

Uljahn: to become 1st is almost always hard, im 326th with pid though

TobiasA: that collision sound made me fall once:unamused:

TobiasA: caught me off guard

Default avatar.png Maxim251: Somebody was playing ROBOT SHOW?

Default avatar.png Maxim251: I have problem, test cases I am making all, but after submit one case is fail.

xxd: Uljahn: how do you know where to avoid? Like if there is not a straight path and you need to go around

Default avatar.png Maxim251: I use half step to find if robots are in this same place, especially if robot1 is on pos 3 and robot2 is on pos 4.

xxd: Maxim251: I solved it, maybe I can take a look at your code

Default avatar.png Maxim251: ok

xxd: PM me

xxd: I wont give you answers but I might be able to tell where you go wrong

xxd: I'm just gonna say that there's a neat trick for this problem

xxd: no simulation is necessary

ProgrammerDog: hi

TobiasA: i wish i could view peoples replay on mars lander

Uljahn: xxd: guess there is always a straight part in Mars Lander opti, it's similar to ML ep.2

xxd: I see

xxd: thanks for that clarification

Uljahn: not very straight but compared to ep.3

xxd: yeah... i saw Di masta's post mortem and that stuff was downright diabolical

xxd: or i should say blogpost, not post mortem

Messiahbolic: :nerd:

eulerscheZahl: lol what?! i submitted my UTTT and then just left. came back to find myself at #36 (was 125 before) all I did was fixing the UCT formula using the parent instead of root

xxd: NICE

reCurse: Well it's pretty impactful

reCurse: That formula was pretty wrong

eulerscheZahl: i just figured so much :D

xxd: I'm not sure how to further optimize

xxd: other than maybe MCTS solver?

xxd: i am already bitboarding pretty efficiently

eulerscheZahl: that's the problem about the game

eulerscheZahl: there isn't much to do except for performance boost

reCurse: At least top 20-30 requires more than performance boost

eulerscheZahl: ok. then i'm happy with my current rank and park the bot right there

eulerscheZahl: i also added the teccles heuristic

Westicles: Is that swifty guy the same as king coda?

xxd: no hes the fallNToblivion guy

reCurse: Ah king coda that was the one

eulerscheZahl: i remember the name. but nothing more about that user

reCurse: Just the previous clown before that one

eulerscheZahl: i'll probably forget about the current one soon as well

eulerscheZahl: someone just pinged everyone on discord. and the moment I wanted to delete it, it was already gone

xxd: damn

eulerscheZahl: was that you reCurse?

xxd: why would reCurse do something like that

eulerscheZahl: because he's a mod

xxd: hmm

eulerscheZahl: that steam sale message popped up a few times recently. I also deleted it once or twice when I was fast enough

reCurse: Yeah

reCurse: Happens every day now

reCurse: Usually lucky enough to catch it right when it pops

reCurse: Almost time to consider making phone verification a requirement

eulerscheZahl: i wonder if that's a human or a bot

reCurse: Bot probably

Astrobytes: Very annoying, since it shows every channel with new messages to be read.

eulerscheZahl: phone verification? then i would be out :scream:

reCurse: Suspicious

reCurse: You have no 2FA at all?

eulerscheZahl: i don't have a mobile phone

reCurse: Many sites make 2FA mandatory now what do you do

eulerscheZahl: i know. I avoid them

Astrobytes: :older_man:

eulerscheZahl: i have 2FA at work. with a corporate card

reCurse: Unfortunate

xxd: we should make them solve an easy classic puzzle

xxd: just joking

reCurse: Well there are bots requiring arbitrary manual steps

reCurse: Before you can post

reCurse: I guess that could be looked into as well

Westicles: No mobile... that's awesome. And seriously eccentric, like 1/50,000 behavior?

Default avatar.png _ForGiveMe_: Hey guys, anyone uses javascript? I'm having some problems

Default avatar.png _ForGiveMe_: I'm new, trying to learn it

BlaiseEbuth: Using js is the first problem you have.

Default avatar.png _ForGiveMe_: Why?

xxd: because hating on JS is cool

BlaiseEbuth: and justified

xxd: JStified

BlaiseEbuth: :scream:

reCurse: When you're stuck with it you have to make do

reCurse: _ForGiveMe_ it's better to just ask your question right away

Default avatar.png _ForGiveMe_: Not much of a question, kinda was looking help for the Temperatures puzzle

Uljahn: is the help you are looking for language specific or just general hints?

jacek: there are hints for temperature puzzle

Default avatar.png Tormugher: Hi! im stuck at temepature puzzle too

xxd: what does "stuck" mean

xxd: errors?

Default avatar.png Tormugher: im not sure if my method is correct

Default avatar.png Tormugher: "process has timed out"

Default avatar.png Tormugher: i added a new vairable "t1"

jacek: timeout could also mean some crash

jacek: what is your code

Default avatar.png Tormugher: and i divided it in 2, (>0 and <0) then i keep adding 1/decresing until its 0

Default avatar.png Tormugher: for each 1 j=j+1 and then i compare it with the others results

xxd: well, that... is one way you could do it

xxd: you're probably timing out since if they're all positive you're gonna keep adding one and it will never become zero?

Default avatar.png Tormugher: sorry if I'm not clear english isn't my native language

xxd: or you're just timing out in general because this approach is too slow

xxd: your explanation makes sense, but your approach is wrong

Default avatar.png Tormugher: if they are positive it does j=j-1

xxd: it shouldn't take longer to find the answer to [-1, 234203529835, -3497345345] than it should for [-1, 2, -3]

Default avatar.png Tormugher: hmm i didn't think about that

Default avatar.png Tormugher: thank you

eulerscheZahl: the constraints say that the maximum absolute value is somewhere around 6000 (i forgot the exact number)

eulerscheZahl: still the approach sounds really unusal me. nothing i would've come up with

jacek: mhm

Default avatar.png SabertheLost: I soo do not understand how I should apply the Constant in this test "Monte Carlo Tree Search exercise" I manage to get the correct value for Large Test', but not most of the others. WTF. :)

xxd: which challenge

Default avatar.png SabertheLost: https://www.codingame.com/ide/puzzle/monte-carlo-tree-search-exercise

Uljahn: are you talking about C in UCT formula M.s/M.v + C*sqrt(ln(N.v)/M.v)?

Default avatar.png SabertheLost: I think so.

Default avatar.png SabertheLost: Not sure how it effects the score already calculated.

xxd: ah

xxd: so a good way i like to think about it

xxd: is the left term is the "exploitation" term and the right term is the "exploration" term

xxd: exploitation = keep doing what works

xxd: exploration = try new things

xxd: exploration term gets higher if the node seems to be good

xxd: OOPS exploitation, not exploration

xxd: exploration term gets higher the less visited a node is

Uljahn: "I manage to get the correct value" - is it for C? it's given in the inputs btw

xxd: so by controlling C, you control how much your MCTS is willing to explore by biasing the exploration term

Default avatar.png SabertheLost: "Uljahn 09:45PM "I manage to get the correct value" - is it for C? it's given in the inputs btw" I mean i get correct solution, but I think it just a bug

xxd: that is why C is also known as the "exploration parameter"

Default avatar.png SabertheLost: I see I try it out a bit more thanks

Uljahn: implementing MCTS for the first time could be hard, hence the difficulty of the puzzle

xxd: hmm

xxd: what exactly are we controlling for Mars lander if we are using PIID

xxd: PID*

xxd: the angle?

Default avatar.png Anon_Wolf: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/e989a0fb-3bfc-44fd-acb9-ede71824a7ba

xxd: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/7308627/javascript-calculate-the-nth-root-of-a-number

Uljahn: yes, the angle is dependent on the velocity and position difference

xxd: do i need to change thrust around or should i just leave it at 3 or 4

xxd: for CSB i just left it at the max

xxd: unless i was turning around a corner

Default avatar.png SabertheLost: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/44a638ba-bffa-4e9b-a9bf-bd00920b09f2

xxd: well root is the same for each path

Scarfield: You could do both angle (pod direction) and thrust. but could probably make it land with only control on the angle, and simple heuristic on thrust. If you want to optimize on fuel usage, you need something less "simple" i guess

xxd: yeah im just gonna focus on angle for now

xxd: physics problems are not my area of expertisee

xxd: so i guess angle is a function of h_speed and thrust is a function of v_speed

Scarfield: i think implementing a PID for mars lander is making it harder than it has to be. you still need a path to steer after. Coding some kind of search with a simulator is not as hard i think

xxd: by the way, this is not the hard one where you need to navigate around

xxd: i think Uljahn said above that theres like a general path

xxd: going straight there

Scarfield: ah okay, i just assumed that it was :)

Uljahn: yes, i use h_speed for angle calculation and v_speed for thrust

Uljahn: gravity is 3.711, so always 4 is a bit more than needed to maintain velocity, you'll fly away

xxd: yup, i'll keeep that in mind

Scarfield: within some angle region, turning to much you will still make you fall faster

xxd: why is physics so compilcated D :

Uljahn: also it's easy to calculate the angle which gives perfect balance with gravity, simple trig

xxd: is that a special case thats necessary?

xxd: doesnt seem like thats... particularly useful?

xxd: oh

Uljahn: no, just to understand some details

xxd: the other part that scares me is

xxd: you need to be exactly 0 degrees when you hit the ground

xxd: LOL i can make myself go upsidiie down

Scarfield: but you can move ut to 40m/s horisontally iirc

Scarfield: up to*

Uljahn: 20

xxd: ah

xxd: so just swerve myself back upright when its time

Scarfield: yup

xxd: ah, i control the *desired* rotation angle

xxd: i thought i had to control the delta

xxd: i think thats a bit easier

Scarfield: yea, you are limited by a max angle change of 15deg per turn though

Scarfield: i think its 15(?)

xxd: yup ur right

xxd: but that means i can just focus on the PID part i think

Default avatar.png SabertheLost: woohoo, I got it working, (only one that fails is the one with the same score sorting)

Default avatar.png SabertheLost: ... almost.. damn

xxd: nice, good work

xxd: what language are you doing it in BTW?

Default avatar.png SabertheLost: java

xxd: man this math is so hard, i have an urge to learn simulated annealing for this

jacek: math, not even once

Default avatar.png Geiler: When I clash with few people the problems are always easy, but when the lobby is full, we get hard ones

Astrobytes: 1 letter away from disaster... Yeah it doesn't work like that afaik

Astrobytes: It's just random clashes whatever you do

xxd: hi astrobytes

Astrobytes: hi xxd, what you up to

xxd: mars lander, still :) how about you?

Astrobytes: I was rewriting some Vindinium and accidentally submitted, trying to get my rank back :( :D

xxd: ahhhahaha, thats the worst

Astrobytes: Yeah, well, guess it forces me to rewrite properly at least :D

Astrobytes: How's Mars Lander going?

xxd: I... don't think i'm doing it correctly

xxd: I'm doing PID controllers-style and tinkering with some magic constants

AllYourTrees: import antigravity

xxd: thrust=4

Astrobytes: use python; import everything

xxd: i think i'm gonna scrap this and try sim. annealing

Astrobytes: Mars Lander... I did a GA, it worked. Something like SA might be better though

xxd: this is the medium one btw

xxd: overkill? or no

Astrobytes: No not overkill.

Astrobytes: I think I did the GA for the optim, then did that one

Astrobytes: Or something like that. My memory fails me currently

xxd: alright yeah. im gonna write up something that would kill two birds with one stone (medium puzzle and optim)

xxd: how would evaluation function work for Mars Lander?

xxd: i guess i can use some combination of the ending velocities/angle

BlaiseEbuth: if(!crash)return INF;else return -INF;

xxd: joking? or for real

xxd: that doesnt seem very useful

xxd: lol

xxd: oh wait... duh i should incorporate how much fuel is left

Astrobytes: yeah, distance, angle, velocity all the usual stuff

Astrobytes: You can, yes

xxd: yea but thats more for the optim one i guess

Default avatar.png SabertheLost: I love it when I get 6/7 correct in the test-cases in the IDE. but 100% when I submit.

xxd: hmmmmmmMMMMMMM

xxd: oh WAIT

xxd: someone mentions a strategy in the forum where you control separately vertical and horizontal motions

xxd: i think i wlil try that first

Default avatar.png SabertheLost: Ok, now i got it working on both. Was adding double the amout of visitors on each node :)

Westicles: one letter :smirk:

Default avatar.png SabertheLost: yeah, letter not node.

Astrobytes: Westicles :innocent:

Default avatar.png TheOneCode: is there a way to play clash only with python programmern?

Rob022: only private with friends

Default avatar.png TheOneCode: okay thx

Astrobytes: submission limit for optims < than for multis?

reCurse: I don't think so

Astrobytes: Hm. Seems I hit the limit quicker than usual. It's late, so I'll test it properly at another time I guess.

xxd: i'll test it for you :wink:

Astrobytes: It really does seem to be less tolerant, but I've had 3 beers so I'm declaring nothing as fact right now

PatrickMcGinnisII: data dangler gambler rangler band member

michaellan: :thinking:

Astrobytes: you alright there Patrick

xxd: i took a nap, now im back, gonna try cheesing mars lander 2

Westicles: some people call me maurice? no, that's not it...

BlaiseEbuth: Astrobytes: possibly to avoid random optimization?

Astrobytes: I improved my ML optim position by 331 rank-wise, 152 points ...

BlaiseEbuth: Time for a dark coffee.

Astrobytes: Westicles: hah! :D

Astrobytes: anyway, laters all, take care and all that, gn

BlaiseEbuth: Giant nipple :wave:

xxd: huh

Astrobytes: lol

BlaiseEbuth: ngl

Astrobytes: bn Blaise

xxd: big nipple

BlaiseEbuth: Bonne nuit :flag_fr:

Astrobytes: :baguette:

Astrobytes: :french_bread:

KNTK: Any idea at what time ratings are updated?

xxd: like 5:30PST for me

KNTK: Thank you

xxd: so in about an hour

KNTK: Another silly quoestion: Do you get more points from codegolf, if you use many languages?

xxd: yeah i think so

xxd: but only like top 3 or so

xxd: but the codinpoints for Code golf is very little

KNTK: I suppose I have to focus on bots then

xxd: yeah thats the conclusion i came to as well

Westicles: golf score is your best five languages

xxd: ah i stand corrected

vysor: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

KNTK: As in best five languages for each separate codegolf, not those on my profile.

xxd: yes

Westicles: click ranking on your profile page, it shows where your points come from

PatrickMcGinnisII: my data is dangled

PatrickMcGinnisII: Before accessing the top solutions, help us to rank them

PatrickMcGinnisII: meh

xxd: at least theres a new legend achievement ofr that

Westicles: pat's into that purple drank again

PatrickMcGinnisII: yup

xxd: the "High ground" test seems a bit annoying for ML...

xxd: wondering if i should special-case it or take in delta Y in my angle calculation

DR_IQWDJ: minesweeper was pretty cool to do but when it came to submitting it took me quite a while to get the 100%

Default avatar.png omar1o1: aaaa

Default avatar.png omar1o1: .

Swyfti: minesweepers?

michaellan: oh its swyfti

michaellan: ._.

PatrickMcGinnisII: :zipper_mouth:

michaellan: so whos gonna tell him

PatrickMcGinnisII: took me hours, only got 165xp

PatrickMcGinnisII: 3 puzzles, smh

xxd: how 165?

xxd: normally 50xp each for community puzzles

PatrickMcGinnisII: code reviewer thing

michaellan: ah nice

xxd: wow, 4 people simultaneously streaming CG on twitch, coolio

WilliamPearsall: what's a good ranking in CoC?

Westicles: 76,941

xxd: depends

xxd: 19th

WilliamPearsall: so like sitting around 1k isn't great?

xxd: thats great

xxd: bot programming, for one, is much more rewarding than playing CoC

WilliamPearsall: I actually disllike AI programming

WilliamPearsall: But that's probably a familiarity thing.

xxd: as in you're unfamiliar, or overly familiar?

WilliamPearsall: unfamiliar. I work in etling and data so data manipulation is comfy.

xxd: ah. well i didnt know anything about AI till a few weeks ago

WilliamPearsall: heh

xxd: but i think its good if you have the luxury and time to sink your teeth in

WilliamPearsall: never hurts to know more.

xxd: as for CoC, i'd say aim for the legend achievement

xxd: win 3 games in a row

WilliamPearsall: 2 is my current run. I was 4 seconds off from 3 last night, but my buddy started talking to me during the third game.

xxd: aw

michaellan: it's not too bad if i'm gonna be honest

michaellan: worst case you can just run the games with bots

michaellan: who have pretty predictable performance

BlaiseEbuth: Muahahaha! :imp:

BlaiseEbuth: Automaton2000, still alive?

Automaton2000: jacek there is degrade bug created by my mistake yesterday in animation update i am just not sure how

BlaiseEbuth: Don't ping people like this Automaton2000!

Automaton2000: the problem is not the way i do it for a while

xxd: Automaton2000 do you even clash of code bro

Automaton2000: but i wonder if it's the same shit

BlaiseEbuth: :grin:

xxd: Automaton2000: i think its still the same problem you've been experiencing

Automaton2000: so maybe you should just be able to do it now :p

xxd: Automaton2000 i hate you

Automaton2000: that should take me a while to get used to it