Chat:World/2021-03-03

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Default avatar.png cobunny: Hi guys, how to play?

Default avatar.png cobunny: :nerd:

FlyHead: how to play what

nerd:

baguettes: :nerd:

Default avatar.png benjumea: Hello

Default avatar.png Saad-py: Hi Mate

Default avatar.png blackjune: Hello guys

Default avatar.png Saad-py: HIiiiii

Fiolinio: hi gamers

Default avatar.png Saad-py: Wasssup Programmers

Fiolinio: i'm having fun

Default avatar.png Adm-Beck: Anyone knows how to turn off this chat? It just appeared and takes a lot of screen real estate

Default avatar.png Saad-py: ok

Default avatar.png Saad-py: bottom play button

baguettes: There will be an arrow in the bottom left of the chat

baguettes: Press that, and the chat should tuck in to the right of your screen

Default avatar.png Kokoz: hello all :)

baguettes: What would be the stub generator for iterating over a string with no space separated characters

baguettes: ?

Theino: https://www.codingame.com/contribute/view/63618707a685d8557571cabb82f9ed5b28d9

Theino: I'm just going to leave this here so people can upvote me and I can get that sweet sweet XP

Theino: also so people can review the work and to help the site grow or whatever... but mainly XP!

baguettes: A question

baguettes: How do I make an output of a testcase be blank

baguettes: ?

baguettes: Because it always errors saying the field is empty

baguettes: Do I have to put in a special unicode?

baguettes: Help? :D

rubber_duckie: do you mean a single newline? like in python, an empty print() statement?

tutubalin: baguettes i think, the problem is the other way around: test expects some output, but your code outputs nothing

tutubalin: or vice versa: it outputs too much, so when test expects nothing, your code still output something

baguettes: yeah the same thing @rubber_duckie

Uljahn: something like \n ?

tutubalin: ah, got it. you're MAKING puzzle, not SOLVING it. sorry, my bad

baguettes: tutubalin, I think you understood it wrong, I mean when I try to test my WIP contrib, it gives an error saying test no. x is empty

baguettes: oh lol, yeah

baguettes: Yes, Uljahn

tutubalin: ok, i would highly discourage from making testcase with blank output. better use something like 'IMPOSSIBLE' or 'NO SOLUTIONS'

awnion: same, or just -1

baguettes: Hmm, thanks, I'll do that!

baguettes: Done!

baguettes: I'll just post the link to the contribution

baguettes: https://www.codingame.com/contribute/view/6363a7c0f65c8b0f4c81b6b28c80c4c2157c

baguettes: Why is the chat so dead today

xcxcx: idk

Uljahn: the chat is in energy saving mode to lower greenhouse gases emission

baguettes: :pp

baguettes: :p

tutubalin: today is International Dead Chat Day

baguettes: Lol

Default avatar.png GeorgiD: Hello there, I am a string. -> 13 Can you figure out the solution to this puzzle? -> 23

Default avatar.png GeorgiD: What is the logic?

Default avatar.png GeorgiD: I tried number of vowels and non vowels

Default avatar.png GeorgiD: You can do it! I believe in you! -> 16 is another example

baguettes: We need more than 1

baguettes: test case

baguettes: GeorgiD It's the length of the string / 2

Default avatar.png GeorgiD: Oh thank you

baguettes: No problem :D

Default avatar.png BlueSponge_e8a2: Hawidre

Default avatar.png BlueSponge_e8a2: Paul du fettes geodreieck

Default avatar.png MassiveShoeEater_535f: Hallo du Homo

Default avatar.png TheFlashLady_6b91: Oida i hoss di so fü

Default avatar.png MassiveShoeEater_535f: Hure

Default avatar.png MassiveShoeEater_535f: Voze

Astrobytes: Stop it or get kicked

Default avatar.png BlueSponge_e8a2: fozn tee

Default avatar.png MassiveShoeEater_535f: Arsch behinderung

Default avatar.png TheFlashLady_6b91: yOU ARWE SUCH AN ASS HOLE

Default avatar.png DJUndisclosedTaxidermist_3494: hallo

Wontonimo: haven't been on chat for a bit ...

Wontonimo: looks like kinda went off the rails

Wontonimo: How's it going Astrobytes ?

Astrobytes: The schoolkids were kicked, and received a talking to in PM

Astrobytes: Not too bad Wontonimo, yourself?

Wontonimo: it's wednesday my dude, which means tomorrow is Prefriday, followed by Friday. That's how i'm holding it together

Astrobytes: Hah! You know it :D

baguettes: I'm leaving a link to my contribution

baguettes: https://www.codingame.com/contribute/view/6363a7c0f65c8b0f4c81b6b28c80c4c2157c

baguettes: Check it out if you'd like to

Astrobytes: Don't do clashes so I'll leave it for someone else ;)

Astrobytes: Looks pretty fun though

Joseph_Mother: My Journey to the Starts

jacek: Astrobytes have you checked out nine men morris?

Astrobytes: Not yet jacek, you?

jacek: i thought it was weird no one tried it. then i saw everyone had bots on 2nd league

Astrobytes: lol

Astrobytes: It's solved as a draw iirc but is it interesting enough with CG constraints?

jacek: lets ask msmits for meta

Astrobytes: lol

Astrobytes: Naturally!

baguettes: Nine men morris?

baguettes: The board game?

Astrobytes: Yep

baguettes: oO

Astrobytes: https://www.codingame.com/contribute/view/61732efac43e2d5a1ab19dcfe7b9afc3b4d0

NeoCipher: Hey guys I am a little new can someone tell me how to increase my "codinpoints"??

NeoCipher: I did a few Clash of Code thingys but its still the same

NeoCipher: neither increasing or decreasing

Astrobytes: The points are updated every day, so you need to wait til tomorrow to see the difference NeoCipher

darkhorse64: CP are updated once a day

NeoCipher: Ahh okk thankss

NeoCipher: so much

Astrobytes: Also, the clash CPs decay over time. You can get CPs from moving up leagues in multiplayer games or such though.

darkhorse64: Fair advice, if you only play CoC, you miss the best part of CG

Astrobytes: In our completely unbiased opinion.

JLukeSkywalker: i agree too

darkhorse64: totally unbiased

NeoCipher: and where are these multiplayer game??

Astrobytes: https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming

NeoCipher: I mean you guys seem experienced so I am gonna try it obviously

Astrobytes: From ACtivities->Compete menu at the top btw

jacek: :notebook: :soccer: unbiased

NeoCipher: Got it thankyou guys again

Astrobytes: no worries

NeoCipher: I am still learning so anything to help me grow a bit works

Wontonimo: NeoCipher the most popular (and arguably the easiest to get started in) is Coders Strikes Back https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/bot-programming/coders-strike-back , but if you are looking for something smaller

Astrobytes: You (hopefully) never stop learning NeoCipher

NeoCipher: True

NeoCipher: Thanks Wontonimo

Wontonimo: there is a smaller practice called Mars Lander that I really like to suggest https://www.codingame.com/training/easy/mars-lander-episode-1

Wontonimo: which has a couple more episodes and an optimization challenge

NeoCipher: Got it have them all opened will go through all of them once

NeoCipher: :thumbsup:

darkhorse64: Don't forget to turn off the sound for Mars Lander

Astrobytes: ^

darkhorse64: Even if you forget, you will turn it off anyway

Astrobytes: Hm. Let the record show that I Am An Idiot. Stupid bitboarding.

Astrobytes: Had my shifts the wrong way round.

darkhorse64: For which multi

darkhorse64: ?

Astrobytes: Clobber. Finally got around to it.

jacek: you want some masks to not get around it

Astrobytes: Well, finally getting around to it.

Astrobytes: Been very lazy recently.

darkhorse64: Been busy with Fireworks. Some people are trying to steal my #1

Astrobytes: Outrageous. How could they!

darkhorse64: Yeah, it's mine. What's the point in submitting ?

Astrobytes: :grin:

darkhorse64: It's a funny coop game with lots of RPS. If coop is bad, you easily take last place even against weak players

Astrobytes: I only have half a bot written for it currently.

NeoCipher: You guys have a crazy profile

NeoCipher: So many languages !!!!

NeoCipher: :cold_sweat:

NeoCipher: How long have you guys been coding for ??

Astrobytes: Some of those are just to get language achievements, it doesn't mean we're experts in them all ;)

darkhorse64: There are languages achievements. Solve 1,3,7,15 puzzles in a specific language

Wontonimo: ^ yeah what Astrobytes said

NeoCipher: Still the fact that you did them means you know something

Wontonimo: I got my by hacking and running the tests a lot

NeoCipher: How long have you guys been coding for ??

Astrobytes: Either not long enough or too long. Not sure.

Wontonimo: i started when i was 8. been coding professionally for 27 years

NeoCipher: Waittt what the hell 8??

NeoCipher: Woww you guys are crazy good

darkhorse64: The good thing is you get a minimal experience with new stuff and you get to know why you stiick with your favorite weapon. But some of them are worth giving a serious try

Default avatar.png Tuo: pls others in fireworks top10 run some code so i get #1 spot back :)

Default avatar.png Tuo: i think(hope) my new bot plays very well vs other good bots

darkhorse64: Resistance is futile

Astrobytes: hehehe

darkhorse64: Solid 0.19 lead

Astrobytes: Wow. Blazing ahead there :P

Default avatar.png Tuo: + a game where someone else runs code and your score changes up to +- 0.5 points

darkhorse64: leRenard to the rescue

Default avatar.png Tuo: btw there should proply be more tests for a game like this. its very hard to tell if new code is better by looking at the score

darkhorse64: Yeah, probably not enough games. The final result depends very much on the deck ordering

awnion: why comments has no MarkDown support?

awnion: why comments have no MarkDown support?

Wontonimo: AutomatonNN , why is there no markdown in comments?

AutomatonNN: why not as hell

Passifi: Giving people negative feedback is mean and might scar them for life that's why

Wontonimo: sheesh, i don't need markdown to scar people, but i supposed it could help

awnion: Constructive negative feedback is the only feedback that adds value IMHO

awnion: what's the point in saying "oh you are so good and bla bla bla buy my shampoo :) "

Astrobytes: With the odd exception now and then I believe most of the negative feedback is pretty constructive. The positive feedback can be a bit... vague?

awnion: non-constructive hate speech is bad too of course

Default avatar.png UnnamedCodinGamer: you have to be very thoughtful and clever to be able to give positive negative feedback

darkhorse64: It never hurts to tell someone he/she has done a good job. A pat in the back always conforts you

Default avatar.png UnnamedCodinGamer: few people are

Passifi: Making progress ain't worth the risk of hurting someone's feeling :)

awnion: to improve you HAVE to see negative sides: knowing positive sides adds not much because they are already good

Default avatar.png UnnamedCodinGamer: yes

Default avatar.png UnnamedCodinGamer: the art is to express it in a way that is helpful to the other side

Passifi: btw I agree negative feedback is the best feedback there is I think the problem with marking down (in all seriousness) might be that people get stuck on the negative emtional side something that can be avoided if the feedback is actually written out and well formulated

Default avatar.png UnnamedCodinGamer: and not hurtful

Astrobytes: Also, a lot of feedback is more neutral tbh, with suggestions for improvements and such. Without which, come publishing time, there would be cause for negative feedback.

awnion: art is a bloody mess: but it worth sacrifice because the reward is an aesthetic joy

Astrobytes: Very profound :)

Default avatar.png UnnamedCodinGamer: and in this specific case you have done something good

awnion: I've learned it too late...

Passifi: and truth be told better to be hurt and know you suck then to believe your great and then face the truth later on. Some people can't recover from their (unwarranted) illusions of grandeur

Astrobytes: ^ 10000000%

Wontonimo: I take offence, my grandeur isn't an illusion

Astrobytes: :smirk:

Wontonimo: ;)

Default avatar.png UnnamedCodinGamer: Passifi yes, I have seen people floating like balloons. It is nevertheless better to deflate them without bursting them

awnion: That's why I hate the western mindset: -- oh your work is so nice so cute amazing bla bla bla -- will you buy it? -- You know, today I'm busy maybe next year? :) :)

awnion: familiar?

Passifi: I don't know avoiding open criticism can be a pretty eastern thing too

Astrobytes: UnnamedCodinGamer: Very true. No need to be hurtful needlessly.

awnion: Welcome to Russia :) Here everyone can destroy your self-esteem to the bottom :)

Astrobytes: Definitely a more prevalent thing in the Western psyche though I'd argue.

Astrobytes: awnion :D

Astrobytes: It's like rewarding all the kids in the race, even when they didn't win...

Passifi: When I studied Go my teachers were ruthless in pointing out my inadequacies it was part of the scene so I guess in terms of teaching the east is a bit more agressive ^^

Astrobytes: Aggressive perhaps, more realistic also perhaps

Wontonimo: okay, participation rewards .... and how do you feel about getting XP or CP here on CG if you didn't come in #1 ?

Wontonimo: or upvotes on stackoverflow or reddit when you arn't the lead contribution?

awnion: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance :P

Passifi: In the end its an individual thing I believe a good teacher would have to know when to hurt and how to pick you up afterwards which isn't easy thats why good teachers are real regardless of the cultural context

Default avatar.png UnnamedCodinGamer: very rare indeed

Astrobytes: No - not that kind of thing. I mean a certificate of participation etc is fine. It's when you see situations where everyone is made to feel like a 'winner' in competition - that's not right. It sends the wrong message.

awnion: and experience in general only helps to get to the acceptance phase quickly :)

Passifi: I think the problem is with rewarding them equally, not with rewarding them at all, no one minds a silver medal ;)

Passifi: or bronze

Wontonimo: i prefer the booze prize over bronze

Astrobytes: Yes. If you demean the positives of striving to the top by rewarding those who came in last, you end up with people who feel somewhat entitled whether they try or not.

Astrobytes: lol Wontonimo

awnion: My point was being dangerous by being component is better than being harmless. Because if you dangerous you can act like harmless, but I'm not sure about opposite.

awnion: But to be dangerous you have to accept the fight, many fights. And you don't want to fight soft ppl. Pointless...

Astrobytes: Food for thought. OK, I'm afk for a bit, be back later

Uljahn: the real participation reward is the friends we make along the way :hugging:

derjack: :scream:

KiwiTae: finisher medals are nice thou

derjack: participation medals plx

KiwiTae: submit default code is not worth anythin

Default avatar.png riririgp: Is there a playground? Any one suggest me a path finder to find it?:thinking:

jacek: use A*

Default avatar.png Duggal: The program: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/ef08f29e-b556-45ea-9d3d-91f1dcc3f803

thanhhv317: good night every one

jacek: :thinking:

Jwheels: sup

Wontonimo: sup eh?

lopidav: \join

Default avatar.png selalmaz: GOO BR

AntiSquid: like this? https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/033/222/moneyprintergobrrr.jpg

Default avatar.png selalmaz: yea kid

Default avatar.png selalmaz: xd

Default avatar.png alexandrenriq: go

AntiSquid: fact: you're the kid of your parents selalmaz

jacek: :<

Default avatar.png UncleHenry: Trying to learn coding anyone got any tips

Default avatar.png Tetra_2021: name all your variables very clearly - overly clearly if you have to

Default avatar.png WarDingo: Comments. When you look at your own code months later it may look like alien script.

KelvinAndHubbles: just code, you'll learn evauntally

Default avatar.png UncleHenry: Thxs for the tips

Default avatar.png Wilster: -=W=-

Default avatar.png Tomix1337: why codingame is so frustrating? Code Wars has much more clear instructions

oddoneout: code wars didnt have the automation games last time i checked

oddoneout: not really comparable

Default avatar.png Tomix1337: what do you mean by automation games?

oddoneout: compete > bot programming

Default avatar.png Tomix1337: I'll look into it

Default avatar.png Tomix1337: thanks :grinning:

oddoneout: np, these are the most fun to me

Default avatar.png Tomix1337: do they require a lot of skill from the programmer?

Default avatar.png Tomix1337: I mean, are they ok for the newbie?

Default avatar.png Tomix1337: a newbie*

oddoneout: not really, I'm learning a lot about the algorithms on the fly

Astrobytes: Perhaps. You need some basic language knowledge though.

oddoneout: and some of them really hold your hand through the first 'levels'

Default avatar.png Tomix1337: sounds promising, will give codingame a second shot then

Default avatar.png Tomix1337: and what about "Learn" tab? Do people use it? Seems like a bunch of random topics

Astrobytes: Also, Tomix1337: what do you find unclear in the instructions?

Default avatar.png Tomix1337: I tried the first game with the spaceship (descendce)

Astrobytes: Don't worry about 'Learn' tab for now, it's a semi-separate site with articles on just about everything people want to put on there.

Astrobytes: Tomix1337: what confused you about it?

oddoneout: I have never even been there lol

Default avatar.png Tomix1337: The "game loop" in this exercise wasn't a real game loop. Every iteration moved the spaceship from one side of the screen to another

Astrobytes: Oh actually, I say 'don't worry about the Learn tab'... Tomix1337: https://www.codingame.com/playgrounds/55547/how-to-get-started-on-codingame

Default avatar.png Tomix1337: I figured out the flow with the help of cerr and debug console

Default avatar.png Tomix1337: but there were a statement while(1) in c++ which means loop never ends

Astrobytes: Check the link.

Default avatar.png Tomix1337: but in reality, there was a terminating statement. It was just not visible to the user

Default avatar.png Tomix1337: I'll definitely check it

Default avatar.png Tomix1337: thanks a lot for your time ^_^

Default avatar.png Wilster: goto 1

oddoneout: on error resume next

oddoneout: i hate vba so much

Astrobytes: Your program is run once for every testcase, the while loop confuses a lot of people to begin with. It only runs while there is input with required output.

TenOldMen: why do I have a "1" next to my home symbol still

TenOldMen: I clicked on it and its still there

Astrobytes: Sounds like a notification?

Astrobytes: Something on the quest map you haven't clicked on?

TenOldMen: Im pretty sure I clicked on everything already haha

oddoneout: same here, everything on the quest map clicked as far as I can tell

oddoneout: and I also have the (1)

TenOldMen: unless there is a hidden one somewhere

Astrobytes: Hm. Can't reproduce on my end.

oddoneout: could be related just to the newer accounts

Astrobytes: Right, go around that quest map and click on everything dammit!

Astrobytes: Contest signup maybe?

Astrobytes: Just guessing, it's the first I've heard of it today

oddoneout: I did sign up yesterday

oddoneout: I'm not sure if the issue was there before or not

oddoneout: It doesn't really bother me, but it did make me scan through the quest map a few times :D

Jstn123: hi

oddoneout: hullo

TenOldMen: it's a problem is you have OCD haha

Astrobytes: As the fellow in your profile picture may have said: Hah!

Wontonimo: y, y u work so well evolution w/ pop 2 and no crossover? u no supposed 2 work!

Wontonimo: having done a thesis in artificial evolution, i have come to the conclusion that its just "built different" on CG

Astrobytes: CG constraints

Astrobytes: On CG evolutionary generally only means basic RHEA

MSmits: The moon or the titan?

struct: How is the new cpu MSmits?

MSmits: ridiculous

MSmits: it says 36% usage and i am running 5 meta mcts at once

struct: Nice, it also should be faster right?

MSmits: I lowered turn time on some of the games

struct: or is the base clock slower

MSmits: because it was eating up the object pool

struct: Why not increase pool size instead?

struct: Would it affect in cg?

MSmits: could have enlarged the pool, but why bother, it's supposed to be similar to how it runs in CG

MSmits: in CG it does not manage to eat the pool

MSmits: i try to have similar performance in CG and local so it's representative

MSmits: doesnt have to be exactly right ofc, just similar

struct: yeah, when I run on windows performance is similar to cg

struct: but on wsl, its faster

MSmits: wsl?

struct: wsl2

MSmits: ok, so... wsl2?

struct: windows subsystem for linux

MSmits: ahhhh

MSmits: maybe some of the intrinsics dont get converted properly

struct: well also msvc is different from gcc

MSmits: sure

MSmits: should not be world shattering though

MSmits: at least it never was for me

MSmits: my old cpu was somewhat faster than CG alreadty

struct: for avx I think the difference is larger

MSmits: could be

struct: Also I think its good to have the gcc compiler at hand

MSmits: yeah for some things that could matter

MSmits: only time i really ran into limitations is when i tried to use uint128_t type for Hypersonic

struct: What did you use?

struct: gcc compiler on windows?

MSmits: i ended up using VS code, but I suppose i might just as well have defined my own type

struct: ah right because its 2 int64 right?

reCurse: msvc is garbage at simd

MSmits: I am not 100% sure how it runs under the hood, but yeah i suppose it is

MSmits: how do you define garbage in this case reCurse?

MSmits: 10% less performance or ?

reCurse: Like abysmal performance

struct: more

struct: Some instructions are much slower

jacek: garbage == windows?

reCurse: Ha ha. No.

reCurse: It just doesn't do well at making optimized code and inlining properly using intrinsics.

MSmits: ah

reCurse: I forgot the exact numbers and it heavily depends on your usag.e

MSmits: i suppose it depends on the coder as well, how much it hurts them

reCurse: But we can talk 25-30% at least.

reCurse: In my use cases.

MSmits: ahh ok

MSmits: could that have changed in the last few months since you tried this?

reCurse: No

MSmits: ah ok, just wondering, because if you find something is crap, you stop using it

reCurse: It's just something they never prioritized

MSmits: I see

reCurse: Maybe not a whole lot of overlap between hpc and msvc /shrug

MSmits: hpc?

reCurse: high performance computing

MSmits: aha

MSmits: well i didnt test simd stuff, but my bots usually run faster locally than on CG... probably CG's crappy cpus though

MSmits: using msvc i mean

reCurse: Like struct mentioned you can directly measure performance of compilers on same machine

reCurse: As for CG parity just use a fixed number of iterations

MSmits: thats hard, you need to know how many iterations you have and that changes during a game

MSmits: also cg has various cpus

reCurse: An average works

MSmits: so i dont bother getting too accurate about htis

reCurse: You can also calibrate by using a fixed state until you get the same number of iterations

reCurse: Over an ensemble of states

reCurse: Plenty of ways to go about it

MSmits: ah yeah, makes sense

reCurse: The thing that sucks if you use timing is it can vary heavily if you use the machine for other stuff

reCurse: Or background processes happen, etc

MSmits: yeah no doubt. I was wondering about that. If I run several meta mcts at once. I suppose they share cache and such? Maybe L1 ?

reCurse: Only way to know for sure is run vtune and check the actual number of cache miss

MSmits: ah ok

reCurse: If you have amd though you're sol

jacek: oO

MSmits: sol?

reCurse: I heard they have some primitive tools that might give you some insight

reCurse: shit outta luck

reCurse: Is my acronym usage offpoint today

MSmits: oh ok

MSmits: nah it's intel 9

jacek: sol rune in d2

MSmits: i cant believe how easy it was to get this thing running, i just plugged my old HDs in and everything worked in 10 minutes

reCurse: They really streamlined computer building in the past 10 years or so

jacek: HDD?

MSmits: 1 SSD and 2 HD

reCurse: My 12 years old HDD is dying

reCurse: Make backups kids

MSmits: yeah, i barely use the HDDs... do everything on SSD

MSmits: HDD for backups mostly

reCurse: Thankfully it's still accessible

reCurse: Yeah that's it, my backup was on it

reCurse: Except that's the one dying

MSmits: do you use cloud storage for anything?

reCurse: Something happened recently

reCurse: Not sure what

reCurse: But last boot took 15 minutes of disk clickety to get windows login

reCurse: And windows is not even booting off it

MSmits: weird

reCurse: And I get very slow speed over half of random files

jacek: could be sata cable? a faulty sata cable was causing random malcfunctions

reCurse: Slowly copying its content off over the past few days but still

reCurse: I hear distinct HDD noises

reCurse: Not sure the cable can do that

MSmits: hope your files arent corrupted

reCurse: It goes click, then 1 sec pause, then click again, etc

MSmits: but if it's your backup why would you need to copy it over?

FlyHead: your power supply isn't overloaded, is it?

reCurse: Because I'm not that smart

MSmits: ohh, you're using *that* definition of backpup :)

MSmits: backup

reCurse: Let's just say I don't have 100% redundancy of all content

FlyHead: "always have 3 copies"

MSmits: ah I see

reCurse: Think my power supply is fine

reCurse: At least HDD should not be in the top consumers

FlyHead: it actually could be

reCurse: But we did have a weird power outage just before the HDD started acting up

reCurse: So who knows

jacek: stop mining and itll be alright

MSmits: well you've been doing a lot of NN's

MSmits: so

reCurse: What does that have to do with anything

MSmits: the sentience on that HD is stalling

MSmits: it doesnt want to die

reCurse: Eh

struct: HDD preveting you from playing uttt, its a blessing.

reCurse: It's normal life expectancy for hard drives

reCurse: 10-15 years I think

FlyHead: psh

MSmits: bah using occams razor again

FlyHead: warranty is usually like 4

MSmits: never had HDD problems

reCurse: Don't wait until you do

MSmits: almost every time in the past when i had something that got broken it was a gpu overheating or a motherboard being hurt by static electricity

FlyHead: 10-15 years is like that gold fish you get from the fair and you've even left him out of water on accident and still didn't die

jacek: there are 2 types of people: those who dont do backups and those who will

FlyHead: XD

DomiKo: "warranty is usually like 4" My HDD lived for 4 years

reCurse: Warranty and life expectancy are two things

reCurse: If it doesn't make it to 5 years maybe time to throw off that seagate

DomiKo: and default HDD's in laptops are another :(

reCurse: Eh, laptops

Astrobytes: "If it doesn't make it to 5 years maybe time to throw off that seagate" - hahaha the truth!

reCurse: Those things are not built to last

DomiKo: true :(

Astrobytes: Semi-planned obsolescence

Default avatar.png PulseBeat_02: .

DomiKo: But when you are a student you have no choice

DomiKo: you have to have laptop

reCurse: Well in my days *shakes cane*

reCurse: Did all my studying without a laptop

Astrobytes: Was about to shake my fist but hey

Default avatar.png PulseBeat_02:

Astrobytes: I did a Java exam by hand you know

DomiKo: I did C exam by hand

Astrobytes: Pen and paper.

jacek: because it was slower?

Astrobytes: BUT JAVA

DomiKo: Low level coding on paper

jacek: :soccer:

Astrobytes: Do you know how much my wrist hurt after

Astrobytes: It was worse than essay writing.

jacek: you had to do imports yourself?

Astrobytes: lol

DomiKo: imagine writing 30 lines and that's only hello world

Astrobytes: Sure. My other exam was like that, but it was better and more meaningful

FlyHead: i'm cool with writing code on paper as long as ctrl+space still works

MSmits: my functional programming class is better then. They're asking us to code something

MSmits: probably gonna go with a boardgame again :)

MSmits: maybe oware

Astrobytes: Relational database, boolean algebra stuff, proof by induction, all that crap, far more writing but infinitely more interesting than writing out java crap :P

MSmits: it's basically suppose to be a html gui running on elm

Astrobytes: You got this MSmits

MSmits: someone even wrote uttt in elm

MSmits: https://github.com/jjst/ultimate-tictactoe

Astrobytes: No, no I won't click that.

jacek: uttt eh

MSmits: but damn.. this FP class is the first time i actually feel like i know almost nothing before i started

Astrobytes: Good!

MSmits: yeah i suppose so

Astrobytes: You know you enjoy a challenge

MSmits: makes it hard work though, took me a full day to get all the homework done

MSmits: yeah thats true

reCurse: Just what we needed, functional programming in frontend

MSmits: :)

Astrobytes: You're a physicist. Scientist. Therefore you want a challenge.

reCurse: What's next, using javascript?!

Astrobytes: Yes - I am not a fan of this becoming something fashionable.

Astrobytes: Hah!

MSmits: lol reCurse, yeah that would be worse

Astrobytes: JBM's blog runs off some Haskell thingy

MSmits: I like how tightly controlled elm is, not sure if other FP languages are like that, but elm really puts you in a straitjacket to prevent mistakes

MSmits: which also leads it to give you really good feedback on errors

Astrobytes: Haskell will actually kill you if you try to break any rules.

MSmits: lol ok

MSmits: elm is less violent

MSmits: it's kinda weird to read these verbose error message

MSmits: it's like a person talking to you

Astrobytes: anyway, your homework is probably just (()()()(()()(()(((()))))))

MSmits: so hey, i dont know why you put this bracket here, but maybe it could be that i am not understanding your indentation right

Astrobytes: So just beamsearch it or something

MSmits: thats a lot of parentheses

Astrobytes: Too lispy?

MSmits: yeah

MSmits: no I get questions like these

MSmits: define a function that does the same as if then else

MSmits: and then the answer is

MSmits: ifThenElse : Bool -> a -> a -> a ifThenElse x y z = if x then y else z


jacek: make nn that will mimic this

jacek: ezpz

MSmits: a is actually a type

MSmits: type variable

MSmits: can be anything. So it's polymorphic

Astrobytes: I hate it already.

MSmits: lol

MSmits: i wonder how hard it is to write a minimax in this

MSmits: supposed to be easier to do recursion in FP

jacek: welp https://hackage.haskell.org/package/foo

MSmits: nice one

MSmits: does someone write bots in haskell?

Astrobytes: Yours jacek?

MSmits: i mean here on CG?

struct: jbm

MSmits: are they any good?

Astrobytes: JBM does yes MSmits

jacek: nope. its some ranodmold one

Astrobytes: Ah ok jacek

jacek: and i cant type. good night

MSmits: maybe when you wake up your typing will have returned to normal

Astrobytes: gn jacek, cya tomorrow

MSmits: gn

Astrobytes: MSmits: quite a few of the #fr guys use Haskell and other FP langs

MSmits: oh ok cool

MSmits: my assumption is they're all slower languages

Astrobytes: It's worth asking them if you have questions

MSmits: just wondering about the speed

struct: I would not recomend you though

struct: for sanity sake

Astrobytes: :D

MSmits: did you have a bad experience struct?

struct: yes

MSmits: talk to us about it

struct: I googled haskel syntax

MSmits: ohh ok

Astrobytes: JBM's Haskell is usually very elegant though

MSmits: i thought you had problems with the french guys

Astrobytes: Haskell is in general quite elegant I find (ymmv and I am by no means proficient)

MSmits: looks similar to elm

Notgoodatcoding5: Hi

MSmits: oh, elm actually compiles to javascript

MSmits: so it's like writing javascript without having to write javascript. Who wouldnt want that

Astrobytes: ...

Astrobytes: On the one hand...

Astrobytes: Yet the other.... :thinking:

MSmits: :grin:

MSmits: hi Notgoodatcoding5

MSmits: did Astrobytes ban you off your Notgoodatcoding1-4 accounts?

MSmits: he gets overzealous sometimes

Astrobytes: Me? Overzealous?

Astrobytes: I haven't banned for over a week, perhaps 2

MSmits: ahh ok

MSmits: well i saw mk is back

reCurse: And I didn't ban anyone in the past hour

reCurse: Slow day

darkhorse64: So merciful

Astrobytes: I've been avoiding CG chat until recently

MSmits: i must have missed you avoiding chat

Astrobytes: I've been active recently

MSmits: yeah

Astrobytes: Prior to that I wasn't

MSmits: well i suppose if you go back far enough

MSmits: 2018?

**Astrobytes slaps MSmits

MSmits: oww

Astrobytes: Fool

Astrobytes: :D

Astrobytes: No, after euler did the disappearing act I've been on and off

MSmits: you mean you took a few weeks break some time?

MSmits: ahh ok

Astrobytes: Before the CG Chat Quiz

MSmits: he may be back, might be good for him to take a break

Astrobytes: What's the point?

MSmits: i've taken breaks off things i really liked and came back

MSmits: sometimes it helps to see things in perspective

Astrobytes: He validated the Binary Extension solo game today

MSmits: oh

MSmits: not sure what that is

MSmits: sounds like something i might receive in my email spam folder

Astrobytes: Binary search trees avoiding bombs in some nodes

Astrobytes: But not quite as easy as that might sounds

Astrobytes: *sound

MSmits: I see

MSmits: so it's a 1D mine sweeper?

Astrobytes: Ehhhh-not quite

Default avatar.png UnnamedCodinGamer: clobber level one passed

Astrobytes: It's still in contribs

MSmits: grats, i am still trying to understand the papers about clobber.

MSmits: atomic weight, nimbers applied to clobber etc.

Astrobytes: Hah, beastly UnnamedCodinGamer

Astrobytes: good job

Default avatar.png UnnamedCodinGamer: here come the real guns then

Astrobytes: MCTS variant?

Default avatar.png UnnamedCodinGamer: i mcts-ed it

Default avatar.png UnnamedCodinGamer: vanilla

Astrobytes: vanilla? Interesting.

MSmits: darkhorse used simd here right?

Default avatar.png UnnamedCodinGamer: using bitboards

Astrobytes: ofc

MSmits: seems a bit overkill though. Isn't it like 2 bit ops?

Astrobytes: Not sure if he did *yet* MSmits

Default avatar.png UnnamedCodinGamer: I have not still checked if it has bugs in move generation

MSmits: you shift and & with opponent board

MSmits: 4 times

Astrobytes: ^

MSmits: connect4 was way more complicated to use avx with

Astrobytes: eval for minimax I do some more shifting though

MSmits: ah, I will mcts this i think

Astrobytes: My bitboarded version is not in the arena yet

Astrobytes: I am thinking the same MSmits

Astrobytes: Potential EPT

MSmits: there will be guys at the top that use math though. This is a math game like D&B

Astrobytes: *potentially

MSmits: plain mcts and minimax will be beaten by them

MSmits: and possibly also NNs

Astrobytes: Possibly yes.

Default avatar.png UnnamedCodinGamer: I hope level 2 does not get approved

MSmits: the problem is that every board is always 1 move away from completely turning around, at least that is what it was like in D&B

MSmits: hard to eval somethign like that

Astrobytes: oh the 10x10 version UnnamedCodinGamer?

Astrobytes: It won't be

Default avatar.png UnnamedCodinGamer: hope so, I just started using bitboards

MSmits: from what i read people eval the "islands" by evaluating your pieces compared to the opponents'

Astrobytes: It was there just for testing purposes previously, most people agreed on bitboard-friendly

Default avatar.png UnnamedCodinGamer: I see

MSmits: i think the 10x10 is more popular in the olympiad scene

MSmits: but that may be because they get more than 100 ms

Astrobytes: Yeah, this version is more CG-friendly

MSmits: do you know if there are obvious opening plays?

MSmits: or are most plays equally good?

Astrobytes: And yeah, being next to more than one opponent piece can be bad, better to stick together with your own pieces, also depending on free space - there are calculations to be done

MSmits: if it's the 2nd, then it's impossible to make a strong opening book and we dont need more than 8x8

Astrobytes: I don't believe there are solid opening strategies, we need to check this before approval

MSmits: yeah I'll try

Astrobytes: Still in WIP anyway

MSmits: dont have anything else to work on currently

struct: MSmits time to use the 12 cores

MSmits: 10 only

MSmits: but it's plenty :)

Astrobytes: Oh you got the new MB

MSmits: yeah

Astrobytes: Liking it?

MSmits: https://imgur.com/a/6mOhLDq

Astrobytes: Point made :D

MSmits: :grin:

MSmits: I'm gonna do a good test to find out the effectiveness of real opening books in uttt

MSmits: i did a baseline with no book and will do a new batch of tests after every million games

MSmits: no counterbook, just meta mcts

MSmits: it's a fun experiment

Astrobytes: Won't that basically come up with the same thing?

MSmits: no i mean, after 1M, 2M, 3M etc.

MSmits: see if WR goes up or not

Astrobytes: As in a counterbook for everything?

MSmits: no

MSmits: i will not use opponent information

MSmits: just selfplay

Astrobytes: Oh ok, gotcha

Astrobytes: Given enough games though.......

MSmits: well there is always codesize limit, but sure, i can go up to 100 million games without hitting that i think

MSmits: maybe further

MSmits: the thing that will determine whether the book is effective is mostly, at which stage of the game is the game actually decided? When do mistakes get made

MSmits: I think it might often be in ply 20-30, in that case book wont help as much

Scarfield: Hardly an "opening book" at that point

Astrobytes: I'm not well-versed enough in UTTT to comment one way or the other there

MSmits: no i meant, the book likely wont reach that far Scarfield

MSmits: which is why it may not help in that case

Astrobytes: And yes Captain ObviousField :D

Scarfield: yea, im just being dumb :)

Astrobytes: Not dumb not

Astrobytes: *no

Astrobytes: dammit

Scarfield: Leiutenent NickstroBytes

Astrobytes: :D

MSmits: whats a nickstrobyes?

Astrobytes: How's it going Scarfield?

MSmits: does Astrobytes nick things?

Scarfield: good good, bought Valheim and have been stuck in the viking world for some days

Astrobytes: It's the nickname wordplay we have MSmits

MSmits: ohh nick as in nickname

MSmits: got it

MSmits: thought he meant you were stealing things, but sure

Scarfield: xD

Astrobytes: Scarfield: it's good then I take it :D

Scarfield: yea its nice

Astrobytes: MSmits: :rofl:

MSmits: mmh a survival game and it's not in eternal early access?

Astrobytes: MSmits: the only thing I steal is hearts, And souls on a bad day :P

MSmits: I see

Scarfield: no idea, only a few devs afaik

Scarfield: usually i dont buy early access, but a friend told me it was way worth i

Scarfield: it*

MSmits: ohh it is early access

Astrobytes: Nnngh. Now I wanna play ArmA

MSmits: tag didnt show up in front

MSmits: i had a ton of fun playing Rust

MSmits: best game experience I ever had was in Rust

MSmits: I built a little safehouse to hide in

Astrobytes: But not programming right

MSmits: some guy outside my door was taunting me

MSmits: heard his voice saying, oh come on open the door, i wont kill you

MSmits: then it was like AAAARGGH

MSmits: stepped in my bear traps

Scarfield: xD

MSmits: i opened the door, killed him, stole his stuff, and got back inside

Astrobytes: Beastly trap.

Scarfield: he was totally friendly, how could you

MSmits: he was a killer :P

Astrobytes: 100%

Scarfield: but he said.. :p

MSmits: lol yeah

Astrobytes: That's why

MSmits: game was full of naked guys with rocks. Average lifetime was like 15 minutes

Astrobytes: Naked guys with rocks...

Scarfield: im sold already

MSmits: you would die 30 times or so before you finally survived long enough to build a safe place

Astrobytes: Clothed?

Scarfield: sounds like Ark

MSmits: yeah its like ark

MSmits: probably with some clothes made from wool or leather

MSmits: it has guns too though

MSmits: people can blow up your house with C4

MSmits: but very expensive

Astrobytes: Well I wasn't expecting titanium alloy space marine suits

Astrobytes: Maybe an iron loincloth or something :P

MSmits: it's a bit like fortnite but with a persistent server and building actually takes time and resources

Scarfield: reminds me of space engineers, havent played that for a long time. was making a working rubiks cube :)

MSmits: ohh

MSmits: i never played a game more than SE

MSmits: I scripted and modded it too

Astrobytes: Didn't you play that one hardcore MSmits?

MSmits: yeah

Astrobytes: ah you replied :/

Scarfield: yea you linked your youtube :)

MSmits: no doubt i did :P

Solarite-E: how does one code?

Astrobytes: depends on your encryption

Astrobytes: 1 could be a

MSmits: Solarite-E do you mean like a barcode?

Scarfield: a keyboard is a good start, seems you already have that

MSmits: he might have done the smartphone kind of talking that takes twice as long and causes neck injury

Scarfield: but watch a beginners tutorial for the language you want to learn, and try some easy puzzles

Astrobytes: hehehehe

Astrobytes: OK, I'm out for tonight, I'm at that point where I can only do troll answers

Scarfield: xD

MSmits: thats when it gets gud

Solarite-E: i've just found it difficult to learn coding so far

Astrobytes: MSmits: depends!

Astrobytes: Anyway, catch you guys later, gn :)

Scarfield: gn

MSmits: Solarite-E this is a place you go when you mastered strings, loops, conditions and other basic coding concepts

MSmits: gn

Solarite-E: well i might have to learn how to code :\

MSmits: codecademy is one of the places where you can learn that

MSmits: messing around with trinket.io and repl.it helps too

MSmits: those are just online IDEs

MSmits: but nice for beginners

MSmits: we use them in teaching

Solarite-E: thanks

MSmits: what helps is to set a goal for yourself

MSmits: make something simple

MSmits: not as simple as hello world

MSmits: but maybe a simple calculator

MSmits: press 1 to do addition, press 2 to do subtraction etc.

MSmits: create a little python3 app in trinket or repl that does that

MSmits: or something that gives you a table of multiplication when you input a number

MSmits: like. input 5 it will do

MSmits: 1 x 5 =5

MSmits: 2 x 5 = 10

MSmits: etc

MSmits: that will test your grasp of input, printing, and loops

MSmits: and strings too

MSmits: google a lot

MSmits: the easiest puzzles on CG are just one step beyond that

tutubalin: *above that

tutubalin: *below that

MSmits: *behind that

MSmits: *beneath that

MSmits: *before that

MSmits: gotta get some sleep, gn :)

Devinawesley: I like this website

Wontonimo: me too

Wontonimo: wow, i never knew we had that in common

Devinawesley: I wish I could be doing these in Python but I was sent here by a company I'm interviewing for and they work pretty much exclusively in C#. So C# it is!

Wontonimo: well, you CAN do it in m

Wontonimo: python

Wontonimo: just, not for that job

Devinawesley: haha good point!

Devinawesley: I'm really hoping the interviewing goes well though. I'd be changing careers from automotive manufacturing to software development. Finally making my way towards what I want to do instead of just what I'm good at

Wontonimo: i'm not here for a job. i'm here because ... wait, why am i here?

JLukeSkywalker: for fun

Wontonimo: oh, yeah!

Wontonimo: Thank JLukeSkywalker, always one step ahead of me

Wontonimo: (waves fist)

JLukeSkywalker: i legit find this more enjoyable than video games

Wontonimo: cheers to that.

Wontonimo: my wife walked into my office and asked what show i was watching and cheering. it was CSB

JLukeSkywalker: Lol

JLukeSkywalker: The weather got nice, been out cycling. Now is your chance to surpass me

Wontonimo: i'm closing in ... just 40 some odd points away

Wontonimo: no, not points , positions. many many points

JLukeSkywalker: :grinning:

Wontonimo: (waves fist lest convincingly)

Wontonimo: how do you do italic here ?

Wontonimo: *is this it?

Wontonimo: nope

Wontonimo: _how about this_

Wontonimo: *or this*

Wontonimo: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

**Wontonimo slaps Wontonimo around a bit with a large fishbot

Wontonimo: oh, that's a weird command

JLukeSkywalker: lol

Wontonimo: what bot or optimization were you working on last JLukeSkywalker ?

JLukeSkywalker: prime funge

JLukeSkywalker: finished my algorithm, just have to map it out now

JLukeSkywalker: https://www.codingame.com/multiplayer/optimization/cgfunge-prime

Wontonimo: oh man, i looked at that and, i'm sure i could do it but at what cost

Wontonimo: and then i remembered i love those kind of puzzles

JLukeSkywalker: many brain cells have been lost already

JLukeSkywalker: and only 54% done

Wontonimo: yeah, but the final satisfaction of seeing it work

JLukeSkywalker: yeah, that will be amazing

Wontonimo: how are you scored?

JLukeSkywalker: number of operations performed

JLukeSkywalker: i guess each iteration counts, so if the pointer passes over an empty block it adds a point

JLukeSkywalker: rn mine just categorizes 1,2,3

Wontonimo: ah

JLukeSkywalker: built the algo for all numbers using the funge operations, just havnt mapped it onto a 2d grid yet

Wontonimo: that's impressive

Wontonimo: did you break it down into functional components

JLukeSkywalker: http://chat.codingame.com/pastebin/98a4406b-ef47-4cbd-b87c-36a111775f6e

JLukeSkywalker: python

Wontonimo: oh yeah, i remember you talking about that and showing a snip of the code

JLukeSkywalker: I just used while loops and ifs in the python algo

JLukeSkywalker: thats what I need to map into the 2d

JLukeSkywalker: using the : to make the loops

JLukeSkywalker: going to take lots of graph paper

JLukeSkywalker: and brain power

JLukeSkywalker: think i might get in the top 50

Wontonimo: hmm ... how about make a 1000 x 1000 CG Funge computer simulator, and start by putting your whole program on the top line going left to right, with loopie controls on the second line to get back to wher the looks need to get back to

JLukeSkywalker: max width

Wontonimo: then encode something like a GA to fold it

JLukeSkywalker: if the pointer goes out of bounds it stops, no wrapping of the ppinter

Wontonimo: score the GA to minimize area, with the objective to fold it into the max width / height

JLukeSkywalker: the max height is 30, max width 40

JLukeSkywalker: so it is pretty tight

JLukeSkywalker: because of how small, i think by hand might be the best solution

Wontonimo: ok. I'd start with linear solution first. verify that it actually works, then fold it

JLukeSkywalker: you cant go linear because of the way the : operator works

Wontonimo: when i say linear, what i means is

Wontonimo: have the bulk of the operations read from left to right along the first row. For loops, make them turn right (down) and then use the < and ^ operators to return back to where you need to be

Wontonimo: using the second row

JLukeSkywalker: there is nowhere near enough space to even approach that

Wontonimo: that's why i'm saying do it on 1000x1000 in your own local environemnt first.

Wontonimo: then when you know it works and it mostly fits on 2 lines, you can bend it at position 40 using a V operation

PewPewBewm: I write so much exploratory code on my own machine before I even touch the web IDE... not sure if that's a good thing, or a sign of low confidence in myself.

JLukeSkywalker: by the time I set up all of that and write code that throws it into the 30x40 I could have just solved it on graph paper

Wontonimo: PewPewBewm that's what i do

PewPewBewm: Oh, and ... Hi people o/ : )

Wontonimo: PewPewBewm I even write unit tests locally also

PewPewBewm: I'm guessing the red text means private message. New to the chat.

Wontonimo: yeah, i first thought i was being yelled at

PewPewBewm: lol

Wontonimo: or got a strike or something

Wontonimo: JLukeSkywalker I applaud your tenacity! Do it!

PewPewBewm: That "Ultimate Tic-Tac-Toe" is driving me crazy : ) I optimised way too early. I always do : /

Wontonimo: OH ? it's got you too? Nice!

PewPewBewm: Oh, cool... the C++ allows me to inline asm. I didn't expect that to be possible in the VM.

Welcome to a whole new level of crazy : )

tutubalin: virtualization is supported on CPU level like 20 years

Wontonimo: gotta go

Wontonimo: later dues

Wontonimo: people

PewPewBewm: I know, but I just kinda ssumed that the VM wouldn't like it.

PewPewBewm: Cya Wonton o/

Wontonimo: (okay, i gotta do it since i found the command)

Wontonimo: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Wontonimo: :)

tutubalin: that's a special command for the case "i wasn't able to find the command i wanted, but at least i found that"

Wontonimo: :thumbsup: