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Default avatar.png meh1001: not really sure what you mean

NinjaDoggy: yea for example

NinjaDoggy: if both players repeatedly learn index 1

NinjaDoggy: then a lot of blues will accumulate on index 0

miszu: ohh I see

Default avatar.png Rodrigo_the_coder: any code?

NinjaDoggy: your name is Rodrigo_the_coder...

Donotalo: i'm running a large bfs, it's searching more than 40K nodes, but still doesn't look for the nodes i'm looking for

NinjaDoggy: code your own ;)

Default avatar.png Rodrigo_the_coder: help

Default avatar.png Rodrigo_the_coder: it

Donotalo: guys how to debug this sort of problem?

NinjaDoggy: make sure you don't have repeated nodes?

Default avatar.png Rodrigo_the_coder: where's da code :(

Donotalo: i made sure

NinjaDoggy: "but still doesn't look for the nodes i'm looking for"

NinjaDoggy: how far is that?

Donotalo: at depth 3/4/5

Donotalo: sorry

NinjaDoggy: also double check that your eval function will prefer them over other ones i guess

Donotalo: at depth 10+

NinjaDoggy: try setting break points

Donotalo: somehow the nodes i'm looking for is filtered out and not getting into the bfs queue

NinjaDoggy: oh

Donotalo: at depth 10+, it's very very difficult to debug, currently i've no idea

JohnCM: more spells, less rest

NinjaDoggy: ok yea I ran into similar issues

NinjaDoggy: try to look for end game stuff

Donotalo: what did you do?

NinjaDoggy: i fixed at least 10+ bugs debuggin last few turns

Donotalo: indeed, i'm looking for end game stuff

Donotalo: oh, ok

NinjaDoggy: do you know exactly what states you're looking for?

NinjaDoggy: I assume you have some function that takes in a state

NinjaDoggy: and determines if it's worth putting into the bfs queue right?

NinjaDoggy: just check for those exact properties? and see why it doesn't make it in?

NinjaDoggy: hope this helps

NinjaDoggy: and i guess if you don't, it's worth writing one

Donotalo: my eval function is simple, i'm looking for more number of brews in less depth

Donotalo: but the bfs never had more than 2 brews, while i'm trying to reach as many as 6

Donotalo: from the starting state

NinjaDoggy: um...

NinjaDoggy: with depth = 10

NinjaDoggy: it's not that unreasonable

NinjaDoggy: assuming you're cashing out often

NinjaDoggy: and not keeping a huge inventory

Default avatar.png Topjimmies: my code is timing out at depth 3

Donotalo: i'm not looking for time out, i'm trying to code it first

Donotalo: my code searches for 20 depth

Donotalo: i'll optimize time later

Donotalo: from starting state + 8 spells learnt, i can see that within 20 turns there are at least 3 brews

Donotalo: but this bfs never sees more than 2 and this bugs me

Csipcsirip: U reach 20 depth without pruning ?

Default avatar.png Topjimmies: timing my code I'm showing 40-120 ms

Donotalo: Csip: i'm trying to get answer first

Donotalo: the code is definitely filtering out more nodes than i expect

Donotalo: that's why it never brews more than 2 from starting state + 8 learnt spells

Donotalo: i'm trying to figure out where the bug is and how to debug at 10+ depth

Csipcsirip: you only have your actual score in eval func ?

Donotalo: honestly, i'm not evaluating state scores

Donotalo: as long as a node is unvisited and depth < 20, i push it into the bfs queue

Donotalo: still something gets filtered out

Donotalo: i'm not pushing invalid inventory configuration

Donotalo: that's all evaluation for now

Csipcsirip: but you filter nodes

Csipcsirip: right ?

Csipcsirip: so they not just "disappaer"

Donotalo: correct

Csipcsirip: and u're not filtering by eval score ?

Donotalo: correct

Csipcsirip: some heuristics or ?

Donotalo: i don't think so

Donotalo: it's plain bfs

Default avatar.png Sajori: Donotalo, just a thought, how are you testing if you can brew a potion?

Csipcsirip: bfs itself doesnt filter nodes

Shparki: is there anyway to get a scenario as a test file? Or do I just have to print me way to it?

Donotalo: i just checked, the bfs reached node 20 but searched 30K nodes from starting state + 8 learnt spells, is that normal?

Lysk: it seems low

Csipcsirip: ^

Donotalo: @Sajori, i'm adding inventory items with action deltas, if any inventory item is negative or more than 10, then that can't be brewed

Donotalo: @Lysk, yes i also think so, i'm trying to figure out how to debug at depth 1=+

Csipcsirip: U count repetable spells too ?

Donotalo: yes

Donotalo: repeat at most 5 times as long as my inventory can accomodate

Csipcsirip: dunno then. but honestly u dont need 20 depth to reach gold. if u brew the next potion asap it should be enough

Donotalo: in my current code i just do that, but it only brings me top 50 silver

Donotalo: so to reach gold and climb up the ladder i'm trying a simulation

Donotalo: i'm not that good at simulation, trying to push my limit

Csipcsirip: you cant tell how to brew the next potion asap without simulation

Csipcsirip: imo

Default avatar.png ukkkfa: hello machinolas

Donotalo: oh, yeah i simulate my inventory to reach all 5 target orders, that's my current arena code

miszu: now sometimes I beat the boss in bronze

Csipcsirip: U shouldnt bother simulating all 5 at first imo. focusing on the next potion should be enough

miszu: that's progress

Donotalo: i simulate to all 5 potions, then figure out what to brew next

Donotalo: sometimes it's lowest depth, sometimes it's highest price, sometimes its enough price to have more score than opponent

Donotalo: depending on my and opponent score

miszu: I put a condition that I continue to learn tomes as long as it is <= than my opponent. One opponent had the same logic but he put the condition that if nothing else is left to learn then do potions. My witch keep starting at the empty tomes and try to "learn"

Donotalo: :grinning:

Default avatar.png Rodrigo_the_coder: improve this challenge code:

Default avatar.png Rodrigo_the_coder:

Donotalo: when i first taught my witch to learn, she liked learning so much that she forgot to make potions

miszu: making potions is overated. The wisdom is priceless

miszu: 136/2389 in bronze

miszu: getting there soon

ZarthaxX: nice

jrke: what is faster in c++ vector,array,queue?

eulerscheZahl: good morning

arkwaw: depends on the purpose

kovi: morning

Default avatar.png jmsether: with a little asm magic you can get any of them optimized

Kyraleese: Anyone having sporadic "your code didn't read in all the input" on the Fall Challenge?

ParticleBeam: Somewhere your code is taking too long and timing out?

Kyraleese: I've debugged and I do indeed read in all the spells/etc and then the two inventories

Kyraleese: that's a possibility. Kind of weird though

Default avatar.png LLG: is there any additional rules in Silver?

Default avatar.png LLG: I'm almost out of bronze

Default avatar.png LLG: #1 bronze rn

ParticleBeam: not that I know of

Zenoscave: no

Zenoscave: Only harder opponents

Default avatar.png LLG: I see

Default avatar.png LLG: how does promotion work btw? I'm higher than the boss atm but I'm not promoted

ClockSort: Bronze has all the rules

Default avatar.png LLG: nvm I'm silver now

Default avatar.png LLG: guess I need to wait for 100% of the battles to complete

JohnCM: congrats on making silver

eulerscheZahl: thanks :)

Default avatar.png LLG: what's the most accurate time to start and stop my timer

Default avatar.png LLG: to measure my 50ms window?

eulerscheZahl: after reading the first line of input

eulerscheZahl: but there's a server goblin so you should stay below the 50ms

ParticleBeam: Do you include the time taken to read an input (After the first one)?

eulerscheZahl: would be good to do. i don't

eulerscheZahl: usually that makes no difference. just CG having severe problems in this contest

Default avatar.png LLG: I have no idea how your bot generates up to 20k nodes euler...

Default avatar.png LLG: mine's having massive time efficiency problems

KnightMoves: Yes, my "Fat Search" is finally working

eulerscheZahl: i'm at 50k to 60k now

Default avatar.png ndosm: anyone please explain what 'Warning: your code did not read all available input before printing an instruction, your outputs will not be synchronized with the game's turns and unexpected behaviour may occur. ' mean?

eulerscheZahl: and i have a feeling that getting more would help me

KnightMoves: you should try C++ ;)

eulerscheZahl: working on it

eulerscheZahl: usually i convince myself that it's not necessary. but this contest highly rewards a fast engine

KnightMoves: yeah i think fast code can be a crutch

KnightMoves: but if you have most of the other problems figured out, especially for a contest like this, then it's certainly helpful


JohnCM: yes my first replay under 45 turns!

Default avatar.png LordSkaven: nice

AshKetchum: srand, rand are producing different results in cg and locally with the same seed. How is this possible?

eulerscheZahl: i saw one with 26 (but didn't save it :( )

JohnCM: i need to cut my number of turns down to 40 to beat silver boss

KnightMoves: I remember seeing that rand issue in the past when i was working on Ultimate Tic Tac Toe

eulerscheZahl: which C++ compiler do you use locally? g++?

JohnCM: AshKetchum, maybe one of the programs is using random without the seed

eulerscheZahl: if not: mystery solved. i don't think the exact algo is part of the specs

Default avatar.png RobertTakacs: hello :D

AshKetchum: eulerscheZahl g++.exe gcc version 6.3.0

AshKetchum: JohnCM, does other bot using rand affect our bot's rand?

Uljahn: AshKetchum: are you using the same implementation of rand and srand as on CG? could be this

eulerscheZahl: converted my bot to C++. I get the same sim count as before :sob:

ParticleBeam: oh. Then I won't bother

AshKetchum: Uljahn, thank you very much. will try it right now.

eulerscheZahl: wait. pragmas!

eulerscheZahl: now we are talking!

Uljahn: pragmas magic to the rescue, Automaton2000

Automaton2000: i think the issue is that the other day

PED: How many sims euler ?

eulerscheZahl: nodes: 109569 39 ms

PED: nice

eulerscheZahl: my arena is at 50-60k

eulerscheZahl: but i still have to finish the port, enemy prediction :(

Default avatar.png rohit523: guys what is this simulation and nodes??

Default avatar.png rohit523: can anyone explain in short?

Earthborne: rohit523 simulate running the game by calculating state from available actions

Earthborne: nodes are evaluated gamestates

Earthborne: (right?)

PED: :thumbsup:

Default avatar.png rohit523: like loops? how many times we are iterating .... i mean total operations in our code?

Default avatar.png rohit523: which inlcude for loops and total constant time statements?

PED: A gamestate is like : 'what happens if my next three actions are A, B and C, and my opponent's next three actions are D, E and F'

lowzhao: may i know for c++ what is the average node count you can see?

Earthborne: think of states as nodes in a tree and actions as links, you would want to traverse the tree to find a path to your most desired state

lowzhao: because i feel like it is similar to Python ...

PED: Eurler is counting how many different futur gamestates (or nodes) he manages to explore in 40ms

PED: lowzhao in C++ I think most people get around 70k nodes

PED: How many you get in python?

eulerscheZahl: no, i count before removing duplicates :D

eulerscheZahl: and now that i try to print my result i'm segfaulting

lowzhao: i am only have 2 to 3k removing duplicated ... D:

Earthborne: ouf, I was getting ~1000 nodes in Python, need to get rid of those classes

lowzhao: in cpp too

lowzhao: i think my data structure is crooked

Earthborne: thilde "~" not working in chat? Didn

lowzhao: should i use priority queue to do bfs?

eulerscheZahl: works perfectly Earthborne

eulerscheZahl: except if you use windows i think

Earthborne: Doesn't it become a beam search then lowzhao?

Earthborne: Oh, haha


Earthborne: That's how it's looking for me

PED: @Earthborne, python is expected to be much slower than C++ (at least an order of magntude in most cases). If you want to speed it up try to replace your classes with numpy arrays. Fot instance a spell could be an array (X), and the grimoire could be an ndarray (6,X)

lowzhao: lol I didnt know what is beam search, but i am thinking some steps takes 2 step to get some takes 3 steps so i should try to explore the closer one before the later one.

eulerscheZahl: it's still a BFS, just with some filtering. otherwise it would turn into an A*

Default avatar.png Timothee01: hello i'am russian

AntonCosmin: hello i'am romanian

Evedel: hello I'm confused

AshKetchum: It worked, thanks Uljahn

Uljahn: :thumbsup:

Default avatar.png LordSkaven: I think the search I am using is sort of like beam search, but it could also be just a brute force one. lol

Earthborne: wow up to 10 ms to compute one gamestate, PED I'm taking your advice, here comes numpy!

Uljahn: i guess brute force is a base line with no prunning, other search algos are just more or less clever on prunning to be able to return meaningful results given a limited time budget

Default avatar.png LordSkaven: ok then I am not doing brute force, because I do a lot of pruning, not as much as I want to yet tho

darkhorse64: eulerscheZahl: unless we are not counting the same things, I explore 350-500K nodes per turn in my BFS search

eulerscheZahl: oh damn

eulerscheZahl: why are you below me?

darkhorse64: My potion/spell selection is bad

darkhorse64: and I have no enemy prediction

Default avatar.png LLG: I haven't put any thought into pruning identical states

Default avatar.png LLG: how do you know if a state is identical?

eulerscheZahl: rushing the 6th potion will give you a boost if you don't do it already

Default avatar.png LordSkaven: euler that thing you do to see timeouts in an arena run, is that a publicly available tool or something you wrote with the api?

eulerscheZahl: it's a local python script. the problem is that you have to download each game individually

eulerscheZahl: if i publish that, we have 100 users downloading all 200 games of their bot

darkhorse64: Yes, this is one possible improvement

eulerscheZahl: also ranking is a bit random

Default avatar.png LordSkaven: hmm yeah I see your point

eulerscheZahl: same bot (i think), 60 ranks difference

darkhorse64: Actually, going faster make me solve more potions but usually the search is already guiding me towards the right direction.

Default avatar.png LLG: euler, any pointer on how to remove duplicate states?

Default avatar.png LLG: how do you compare states in a time efficient manner

eulerscheZahl: use a hashset or the equivalent of your language

eulerscheZahl: then implement hashcode and equals

Default avatar.png Timothee01: hello i'am north corean

eulerscheZahl: what a coincidence, i'm North Bavarian

SelectNull: i'm just north

Default avatar.png LLG: hashing!!!

Default avatar.png LLG: I completely overlooked it

Gronahak: My search isn't deep enough to reach dup states :see_no_evil:

eulerscheZahl: 2 turns are enough for duplicates

Gronahak: are they ?

eulerscheZahl: get 2 new blue, learn first spell learn first spell, 2 new blue

eulerscheZahl: same result

Gronahak: Oh if you only consider the inventory itself as a state

eulerscheZahl: inventory + active spells + exhausted spells + remaining orders

darkhorse64: removing dups only works if your search the path to a potion, not for the best score

eulerscheZahl: well, i sort by score before expanding further

eulerscheZahl: then way i only expand the better path

Gronahak: Unless i'm missing something, in your example the state wouldn't be the same since you learned 2 new spells

eulerscheZahl: expand both, keep the better*

eulerscheZahl: i think you didn't understand my example

Gronahak: ooooh

Gronahak: i get it now

Gronahak: order of actions

Default avatar.png R4YB4T: hi

Default avatar.png Timothee01: hi rayane my friend

Default avatar.png Diver_Significant: Dude, my high school class is going to love this

Default avatar.png Diver_Significant: Any other teachers out there?

Default avatar.png LordSkaven: I wish I had this when I was learning programming in high school would have helped a lot

geppoz: eulerscheZahl in state you should also have tome remaining spells, and his rewards

geppoz: right?

eulerscheZahl: no geppoz. when i know my own active and exhausted, that's redundant

eulerscheZahl: C++ submit coming. let's see how this goes

geppoz: how can you know the reward amount from your active/exh ? you should calculate backtracking learns?

eulerscheZahl: go deep enough in your search and print the first action of the path leading to the best result? as always?

geppoz: I mean, in your search tree, in states, you should put the rewards on tome spells (when you learn >0), how can you dont have this in your state?

struct: Did you finish porting euler?

eulerscheZahl: no

eulerscheZahl: missing enemy and endgame strategy

eulerscheZahl: i don't try to rush the 6th potion

eulerscheZahl: will probably rank lower than my old. but i see potential in it

eulerscheZahl: i have a static list for the tome

eulerscheZahl: and some bits that are set to 1 if i have it as active/exhausted

geppoz: ok static list for tome recipes, but rewards can change in different branch

eulerscheZahl: i expand the branch with the highest reward first

eulerscheZahl: and only keep the first of equal states i find

Csipcsirip: there isn't any rule between the learn action and the corresponding cast actions ID ?

mlemm: i don't think so Csip, but i think you could aswell check the referee code

struct: its instance id I think

struct: everytime a spell is learnt it increases that id

struct: and assign it

Csipcsirip: oh so no fix ids ?

struct: Only on tome and recipes

Csipcsirip: aight thanks. im gonna need a lookup table then

mlemm: the tome ingredients themselves can become a key id if you look it up from an other perspective

mlemm: but that wasn't the question nvm

dbf: eulerscheZahl how is your c++ submit comparing to c#, less timeouts?

Csipcsirip: ye i could hash by ingredient values too, but it'd cost more bits than hashing by index

mlemm: exacly, im actually looking for a go-around solution rn since the index can't be tracked

Csipcsirip: i think ill just use the the actions position in the actions list

eulerscheZahl: oh, the c# version had a stupid bug, i fixed the first turn timeouts before

eulerscheZahl: was around rank 10 afterwards

eulerscheZahl: but i'm optimistic when i fully port it

mlemm: please no

mlemm: please let me updated euler, after you finish porting im dying to know

eulerscheZahl: you'll see the answer on the leaderboard

struct: nice now I cant get 1st in C#

struct: my plan is complete

mlemm: if the ranking doesn't get slower

eulerscheZahl: i gave that task to ille

Donotalo: <sigh>

eulerscheZahl: "you have to defend the honor of C#"

Donotalo: you guys write the solution in multiple languages? most people struggle with their favorite language

dbdr: eulerscheZahl #30 :O

mlemm: i won't but struct will

eulerscheZahl: i dropped dbdr :D

eulerscheZahl: but don't worry, i'll be back

dbdr: are you rewriting in C++?

eulerscheZahl: yes

dbdr: :sweat_smile: about you being back

eulerscheZahl: not finished yet. my bot doesn't know about the 6 sample = end of game

dbdr: ah, C++ in arena already

eulerscheZahl: "sample". i'm still using C4L terminology

dbdr: :D

eulerscheZahl: i could go to #10 with c#

dbdr: lame ;)

Default avatar.png 41148: :relaxed:

eulerscheZahl: but 30 motivates me more to finish the port

dbdr: indeed, I see why you had to switch

eulerscheZahl: double sim count now

Default avatar.png Vadasz: How many nodes do you have euler in C++?

eulerscheZahl: 130k

eulerscheZahl: still low i guess :D

struct: not that low

eulerscheZahl: that is before eliminating duplicates

struct: how much time?

eulerscheZahl: 40ms

mlemm: no timeouts ? are you sure

DomiKo: 300K is not that hard to get

eulerscheZahl: let me check

eulerscheZahl: depends on your processing of the nodes too. DFS is faster than storing all nodes and sorting

DomiKo: yes I know

DomiKo: by 300K I mean normal tree with sorting


eulerscheZahl: still a few timeouts

eulerscheZahl: my logs from one of the timeouts:


Csipcsirip: tx euler was about to ask for that

eulerscheZahl: always about 5ms. and then 30

Nerchio: i used bitset for the first time

Nerchio: got a bug that took hours to figure out

Nerchio: can recommend :joy:

eulerscheZahl: i used C++ for the first time (in a CG contest at least)

mlemm: Nerchio that's the best way to learn something :sweat_smile:

Nerchio: euler i wanted to jump to C++ and started rewriting but when i heard my polish java friends getting tons of states in java

Nerchio: i decided to come back and try

eulerscheZahl: hmm, i allocate 200k nodes at the start. in 1 turn i already found: 175103

eulerscheZahl: maybe not a timeout because of CG but be writing outside of the array

Nerchio: my bot says it does up to 300k nodes in the later turns in java

Nerchio: is it believable or a bug? :D

Nerchio: i don't sort or anything like you Euler so its just bfs

JBence: hey euler, I kind of solved the c# timeouts

JBence: only had a few on the last submit with 45ms

struct: Well I was getting 500k states, but I found it was bugged

RockyMullet: oh I fail some casts thinking I can multi cast wen I cant :thinking:

Nerchio: how was it bugged struct? :D

struct: too ashamed to say sorry

eulerscheZahl: you forgot to update the inventory

struct: way worse

struct: its related to packing everything in 1 int

eulerscheZahl: you packed 2 things in the same place?

struct: It was so dumb its impossible for anyone to guess

Default avatar.png LordSkaven: you forgot to return the value

eulerscheZahl: so, when gold?

mlemm: you bit operated on different byte lenghts ?

mlemm: something like this

struct: I was doing a + b

RockyMullet: haha

struct: but b had negative values in it

RockyMullet: yah im debugging a case where I output the wrong thing locally, I should figure out my dumbness :P

Astrobytes: Hello

DaNinja: morning

struct: hi

mlemm: Astro, hi buddy !

mlemm: when i press "Use an external code editor" it just prompt up the app ext window, how can i upload the file ?

RockyMullet: yup, wasnt updating my "cast times" properlly

struct: What ahve i done


Nerchio: :bug:

struct: thanks

struct: I found it

struct: I was trying to sum a struct with a struct

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien:

struct: Nice CoC

struct: just what I needed

Poli2312: Hi

struct: hi

karliso: Brutaltester sometimes gives: "Negative score during game 1 p0:-1". It is always p0 and last command/time looks fine. Does anyone know what is going on?

Nerchio: I had same problems when trying it during different contest

Nerchio: didn't figure it out really but most of the time it gave me error when using multiple threads

Nerchio: on 1 thread was working mostly fine

karliso: I have just one thread.

karliso: I also observed that silencing cerr helps a lot to avoid timeouts locally.

Nerchio: yeah maybe you can talk to Magus directly about it

karliso: But this doesn't look timeout related as time at the end of turn is fine.

kovi: what happens with cerr on your env? i had -1 when using multi games running at once as my process used errorlog file which was not shared

karliso: I am running it on windows cmd

Default avatar.png captnchr1s: Is it possible to challenge a specific friend?

Aya_Noaman: yes

struct: Only if they are on the top 1000 of your league

Default avatar.png captnchr1s: Can i go back one league?

struct: no

dbdr: eulerscheZahl is back :)

Csipcsirip: eulersc++heZahl

hasleron: I'm working with C++ and evaluating many states. I'm wondering if it makes sense to replace int values with unsigned char if they never exceed 255. Could that improve the performance? Some answers I found suggest no, but others say less used memory could improve access times due to more values stored in cache. Does anyone know more about this?

Csipcsirip: in my experience replacing ints with chars doesnt help that much. unles your at the edge of the memory limit

DomiKo: there are many factors

poInT: and honestly probably there are other things you can improve before you go into this kind of optimizations :)

Default avatar.png LordSkaven: ^ definitely, premature optimization is the sudo of evil

struct: avoid early optimizations

struct: please

Default avatar.png Vadasz: char vs int: if you have a large vector, it could be a significant difference when you use fill(..) in ms

hasleron: Yeah there are definitively other major things to improve, I just figured I need state evaluations in any case so why not see how to improve them. But I guess I can run speed tests once the other stuff is done. Thanks y'all

Uljahn: i think the only right way to find out is to implement both approaches and compare by profiling, at least it's more robust unlike asking for opinions or making predictions on how things "should" work in theory

struct: Also try to profile with real cases

Uljahn: ye, it's very easy to fail in profiling

hasleron: real cases would be using something like the game API?

JRFerguson: hi all, is there any brutaltester referee around ?

karliso: It looks like the referee doesn't recognize my command: "LEARN 34 T.24" which is causing those -1's.

eulerscheZahl: file a bug report

eulerscheZahl: or on github

karliso: I am not sure yet.

Nerchio: i started timeouting at the start of my turn in IDe ;x

Nerchio: this is the problem you were saying euler? xD

RockyMullet: finally top 100 in silver :confused:

RockyMullet: im really starting to think I might actually get stuck in silver this time

eulerscheZahl: and of course my first loss is to the worst player. and it's a timeout :D

RockyMullet: timeouts only happens in games you would've won, that's the rule

eulerscheZahl: i can't prove it but was looking good for me

eulerscheZahl: i even finished my search at 41ms. but no output

Nerchio: =/

DomiKo: yes 20ms cout is hard :(

ZarthaxX: lovely timeout :(

RockyMullet: me I'm starting to thinkk I have a random crash

RockyMullet: cause I stop at like 35 ms

RockyMullet: and still timeout

eulerscheZahl: often?

Nerchio: i started getting these timeouts as well

eulerscheZahl: the question: do you get more timeouts than others?

RockyMullet: probably 1/5 of my lost

Csipcsirip: maybe it's some server stuff? I got some random timeouts too

eulerscheZahl: i did yesterday at that time. and it was my fault

AllYourMCTS: in other games i've gotten timeouts with no error messages because of an out of memory error

Nerchio: i didn't have timeouts before since 20 minutes i timeout all the time in the ide

Nerchio: sometimes at the start of my turn

ZarthaxX: what the heck??

Nerchio: limited to 35ms as well even though i can do 45ms xD

ZarthaxX: java nerchio right mm

Nerchio: i don't use big objects anymore so my turns last almost exactly how long i want

Nerchio: so im sure its not my fault

RockyMullet: oh actually, checked my games, I dont seem to timeout, maybe i just needed to stop my search earlier, also my best submit, so maybe I got lucky too

Nerchio: i guess i will come back later

RockyMullet: one thing I fixed was using a couple of gigantic arrays in my base search function, meaning I'd have to destroy those gigantic arrays when I was going out of the function, having an actual cost of ending my sim, therfore having too much things to do AFTER I quit my search

Nerchio: timing out sometimes before my round even starts is sad

ZarthaxX: RockyMullet lol, gigantic arrays :rofl:

RockyMullet: yeah I dont want to deal with reallocating problems

RockyMullet: so I just waste that memory :P

ZarthaxX: just preserve the poor arrays mah man

RockyMullet: yah my fix was exactly that

ZarthaxX: gud carne

AntiSquid: hard silver wtf lol

ZarthaxX: go for the gold, do it for me

AntiSquid: ok ZarthaxX

RockyMullet: AntiSquid yeah I'm not sure if it's just because it's a game I suck at or if it's harder than usual

ZarthaxX: AntiSquid wasn'tfor you, but now that you say it, thanks

AntiSquid: feels much harder than usual :D

AntiSquid: OOC level

ZarthaxX: maybe because there is no much clear room for easy improvement?

struct: Just wait until legend new rules

RockyMullet: yeah ZarthaxX, no much room for some cheesy improvement

AntiSquid: stronger bots early on

Nerchio: exit search at 35 ms -> timeout :joy: thanks CG

AntiSquid: i just do 10k nodes atm, no sorting no time check

RockyMullet: I feel because there is a lot of participant and contests are less often, maybe there's just more tryhard people than usual

AntiSquid: and with this much i'd expect gold :P

AllYourMCTS: id say the game is on the less complex side too

AllYourMCTS: perfect information aside from random deck, mainly solitaire

lowzhao: for cpp is itpossible that error is not catched ? because i cannot see the error but it was shown as timeout.

Westicles: Any indication what is behind the timeouts?

eulerscheZahl: the server goblin

struct: zombie processes

RockyMullet: AllYourMCTS exactly, making really hard to have counter/tactic, you just gotta pump up those numbers, there's an obvious solution

RockyMullet: there's pretty much one solution: look the deeper you can

RockyMullet: so im pretty sure every silver and above already have a depth N sim and is just trying to go deeper and deeper

AntiSquid: damn stuck at around 350 Q_Q gtg hope to improve later

ErikBrendel: silver rank 200 here, not doing any simulations

wlesavo: deeper not exactly the answer you looking for because of randomness and quite short games

RockyMullet: ErikBrendel oh well, you giving me hope I guess

ZarthaxX: ErikBrendel noice :O

RockyMullet: wlesavo yeah you can add enemy prediction and/or statistics on top of that

RockyMullet: if I'm really desperate and not bored yet, I might try to check for a depth 3 enemy prediction

RockyMullet: rn I only check depth 1 if enemy can do a potion on this turn, that's pretty much the only enemy prediction I do

ZarthaxX: that's amazing

ZarthaxX: and do you do with that info? :P

Westicles: What if you launched your code with processbuilder, then you kill the process if it goes rogue and do a move

ZarthaxX: i mean, he is going to get it next turn, can you get it?

RockyMullet: if it's its last potion, I try to full my inventory with tier1+

RockyMullet: I do steal some victories here and there with it

wlesavo: RockyMullet well yes but depth>10 seems to be not very helpful, at least from my perspective

RockyMullet: true

RockyMullet: personally I feel my bot has way too many turns where he doesnt have a clear potion in mind

RockyMullet: when it's slow and only reach depth 3

JBence: poor pb got stuck with a max value inventory


RockyMullet: so I feel, depth 5 is probably good enough

JohnCM: this is an search pruning challenge

Csipcsirip: so he too hash invertoryvalue in the eval

Csipcsirip: has*

JohnCM: the one who uses least compute can search deeper

ErikBrendel: JBence wow that is a really unfortunate situation :D

JohnCM: meanwhile, i'm still debugging my bfs: RecursionError: maximum recursion depth exceeded while calling a Python object

JBence: Csipcsirip, just got blocked by losing that potion

RockyMullet: maybe I could try to make so kind of tree between my spells, to know which one can influence which, so I can ignore those that cant influence one another

eulerscheZahl: getting stuck happens from time to time, some bots even detect it

CommanderCero: ive tried to do an interaction tree between spells to compute how fast i can produce certain resources

CommanderCero: that wasnt fun or worth it

Csipcsirip: ye JBence but after that he still fills the inventory with the highest value inregidens possible

Csipcsirip: oh actually no

JBence: that potion was his only way out

Default avatar.png LordSkaven: I also have a potion that is my only way out, very pretty potion except for the skull on the bottle and the warning sticker

Csipcsirip: ye, youre right

JBence: I wasn't trying to be mean by taking it though

RockyMullet: CommanderCero ok thanks for the tip

RockyMullet: well my next step is probably just some profiling then, gotta fast(er)

RockyMullet: gotta go fast

CommanderCero: I mean my problem was that I couldnt find a reasonable definition for "fast". I think influence may be easier to detect

CommanderCero: but even then you can probably ignore such an optimization

CommanderCero: if you can go deep enough, which is quite possible in this competition

struct: Anyone knows the stack size?

RockyMullet: CommanderCero yeah deeper mean more information, more information means better decision

ZarthaxX: not always

struct: Yeah, on multiplayers it can hurt

CommanderCero: why do you need so much stack

struct: I only asked what was the stack size

RockyMullet: ZarthaxX if you are doing worse with more information, it means your missusing that info

Default avatar.png LordSkaven: if you need to ask then you are using too much struct

struct: Sure

Uljahn: struct: you mean for recursion?

ZarthaxX: RockyMullet i mean, you can always choose a final state as your target which gets worse at deeper turns

ZarthaxX: it doesnt guarantee it will be better to go deeper, you can miss smth

Westicles: ulimit -s says 8192

Zanoshky: Hello,

For some reason i do not see set game seed in IDE ?

CommanderCero: options manual

Zanoshky: I only see players not options

Astrobytes: Settings -> Expert on the left

Zanoshky: thank you!

Astrobytes: np

Scarfield: struct, maybe you can allocate an array on the stack, keep increasing its size until you timeout?

CommanderCero: i mean for that he needs to use recursion

CommanderCero: which doesnt represent the exact stack size

ZarthaxX: you dont need recursion for that

Astrobytes: Westicles got it with ulimit -s already

ZarthaxX: on this server?

ZarthaxX: or locally

Astrobytes: I would assume here

ZarthaxX: hi astrobyto btw

Astrobytes: hiya Zartho, all good?

Westicles: yeah, from the bash window

Scarfield: astrobytes

Astrobytes: scarfield

ZarthaxX: all gucci mah man

Scarfield: lol, was stalking you on the leaderboard, failed

ZarthaxX: you?

Astrobytes: cool. Yeah, same old crap different day :D

Astrobytes: lol Scarfield :D

Scarfield: xD

miszu: I like when vs some people, we spend like 42 moves to learn all the spells in the book

ZarthaxX: lmao

Astrobytes: don't bother looking me up anyway Scarfield. I keep trying to write a real bot and keep getting distracted

Default avatar.png LLG: I hit a wall since getting to silver lol

Default avatar.png LLG: my first commit got to ~600

Default avatar.png LLG: then any 'improvements' I committed tanked my rankings further and further

Scarfield: also going the bfs way, or other approach?

Default avatar.png LLG: yeah bfs pretty much

Default avatar.png LLG: my search algorithm as a whole hasn't changed much

Default avatar.png LLG: just bfs with some sort of beam search

Uljahn: LLG: you must improve faster than others to stay at the same place :smiley:

Default avatar.png LLG: but instead of getting the best n results, I get the local maxima of every node

Default avatar.png LLG: I think my bot is legit getting worse tho xD

CommanderCero: yeah thats beam search

Default avatar.png LLG: most of my changes has been in the evaluation of game states

Default avatar.png LLG: and adjusting a few variables, like starting from which potion should I just rush the easiest one

Default avatar.png LLG: I tried rushing the last 1, then rushing the last 3 etc.

CommanderCero: have you tried aproximating how close you are to finishing a potion

CommanderCero: something continious to guide the search

Default avatar.png LLG: yeah I think that's where my problem is

Default avatar.png LLG: my bot is supposed to calculate the distance between my inventory state and the 'best potion' on the board

Default avatar.png LLG: but in some cases it just hoards yellow ingredients

Default avatar.png LLG: also I think there's something horribly wrong in how I generate game states, because I'm timing out at like 2-3k states

CommanderCero: hmm thats not much, i think thats a problem

BrunoFelthes: @LLG I do between 5k~10k states... and i am gold... heuristics is important when you have low number of simulations...

Default avatar.png LLG: what are you looking at when evaluating a game state?

Default avatar.png LLG: I think that's where my biggest problem is right now

CommanderCero: also if you approximate the distance and it starts hoarting resources, is there maybe an error in the heuristic/search?

Default avatar.png LLG: to be honest I still have no idea how that problem occurred

Default avatar.png LLG: a coworker of mine encountered the same problem; I've also fought some bots with the same problem

Default avatar.png LLG: when I tried to debug it, my evaluation is going down, but somehow my bot keeps going that direction

Default avatar.png ChristianHaeger: what happens if both witches starts completing the same order?

geppoz: both successfull

Default avatar.png ChristianHaeger: aha ok, thanks

geppoz: also if both learn same spell

Xwtek: About cgx, what are the allowed numbers? And is there any escape symbol for string of characters?

geppoz: so a game can be literally mirroring and tie

andrefpoliveira: yap

ErikBrendel: yes, I actually witnessed this in lower bronce

Xwtek: Does the number allow fraction or negative number?

JohnCM: gg.. i do depth 3 bfs and it timed out

Xwtek: What language did you use?

JohnCM: python3

geppoz: I abandoned python

geppoz: newboards=[]

geppoz: timed out

Xwtek: Can you show you Code?

geppoz: :D garbage collector 50ms

JohnCM: it's rather long

JohnCM: basically it is just bfs of all possible actions

JohnCM: was working fine in my ide

JohnCM: but once i submitted it, there seems to be a timeout error quite often

Xwtek: What challenge it is?

JohnCM: fall challenge?

JohnCM: the potion one

Astrobytes: Xwtek:

SirLoxley: I am having a hard time finding a situation where repeating a spell is a useful action ... I usually don't have that much inventory

Nerchio: its used quite often for sure

JohnCM: repeating spell = save 1 move

JohnCM: or 2 moves

JohnCM: very impt

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: I hate getting suck with full inventory and being unable to brew anything :stuck_out_tongue:

SirLoxley: you have to build that much inventory first ... as said I normally don't have that much in stock

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: stuck*

Default avatar.png LordSkaven: that moment when your unoptimized and feature lacking bot from 2 days ago does better than your current one

geppoz: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

geppoz: :D

Default avatar.png RicksMLC: I've had that moment for two days now :)

AshKetchum: me too

Default avatar.png RicksMLC: Refactor #4 is working now... *phew*

Default avatar.png RicksMLC: but still in bronze - maybe some progress tomorrow

geppoz: which is the average learnt spells in top smart matches?

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: I wonder if i shouldn't actually try to cast ingredients of any specific potions, but to build a balanced inventory so i don't get stuck.

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: my bot seems to get stuck all the friggin time now

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: darn inventory limit :P

Westicles: Interesting that #1 and #2 haven't played each other for over 300 games, but they play some others over and over

Westicles: I guess that tells you who is submitting?

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: yep

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: that probably means they aren't submitting

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: but others are, so they are testing against them

AshKetchum: how to see wood1 statement if we are already in bronze for those practice games which don't have src given?

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: i guess no other choice but to create an alt account?

miszu: 61th in bronze. Argh... getting closer

miszu: I notice a pattern. My witch is going for a potion. Once she can brew it she look at another potion recipee and go for it instead...

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: :D

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: The Indecisive Bot ;)

Stilgart: Automaton2000: it's you !

Automaton2000: yeah, it was a lot of it

miszu: my logic is like: find best potion based on what is my inventory and then chose best spell to reach that potion

miszu: I guess my best potion heuristic needs some tweaking so that if you can brew something, then brew it!!

miszu: and not: my my... look at that other potion...

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: all you need to do is check first if you can brew the potions. Then proceed to your usual logic.

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: sounds like a great logic otherwise

miszu: problem is: what if you go for a good potion but by accident you can brew something else which is way worse?

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: i would prefer to use this logic for my bot though: "use commands which make me win". But that is not so easy to program :P

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: yeah, that is one problem :)

yhyoxx: then dont give ur program that option stick to ur target

miszu: main{win();}

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: heh

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: you could filter out the really crappy potions you don't want first

yhyoxx: ;()

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: but even a bad potion is good if your inventory is full and you can't brew anything else and can't cast either

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: if that is possible

miszu: mmm... I just realized I don't keep track of how much effort I actually did

Nerchio: my logic is : if i dont timeout i consider myself a winner

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: :D

miszu: effort = current spent + how much left. Mine is just how much left

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: yeah

miszu: so I need to track the current spent and it show solve the undecisivness problem

miszu: should*

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: i did consider to valuate the potions according to "turns to brew", but i haven't gotten basic problems sorted out yet, so no point going fancy yet

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: i underestimated the complexity of this game

miszu: turns to brew is a very important one

miszu: if you do it right, like you write an optimistic heuristic it could be very good one

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: as usual, i probably won't get anywhere in the allotted time :( And then i have to wait for months again before i can play this.

Nerchio: well you can play multis outside of competitions as well

Nerchio: its fun

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: yeah, but if i want to continue this one after the competition ends

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: as i often do, because 11 days is nowhere enough for me :P

Counterbalance: it'll probably be available as a multi in a week or so

Astrobytes: It'll be available in 1-2 days after it ends

Astrobytes: (according to CG)

RockyMullet: I'v been drifting, from 100th to 60th

eulerscheZahl: but when will the next contest be?

RockyMullet: maybe I can just... wait :P

eulerscheZahl: wait for lucky legend push?

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: oh, just few days? That's a lot quicker compared to how it used to be.

RockyMullet: lucky gold push :disappointed:

eulerscheZahl: oh, you are in silver?

eulerscheZahl: i lost you and didn't even notice. i'm sorry :(

Astrobytes: yeah ScifiSpirit, and your bot gets auto-pushed to the multi too

yhyoxx: how many nodes do u do per turn ?

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: ok, that works, unless the rules change

eulerscheZahl: who @yhyoxx?

yhyoxx: u or anyone ?

eulerscheZahl: i can offer 125k-175, depends on the server i get

wlesavo: wow didnt noticed euler rewrited in c++

eulerscheZahl: for the speed boost

eulerscheZahl: i'm sorry

yhyoxx: nice

eulerscheZahl: but for you python wasn'T good enough either wlesavo

wlesavo: did you get rid of your timeouts?

yhyoxx: i cant even do 5000

eulerscheZahl: had many first turn timeouts caused by my bot

eulerscheZahl: predict opponent (6 turns)

wlesavo: euler well you can blame me for that :smiley:

eulerscheZahl: then simulate myself for hte rest

wlesavo: cant!

eulerscheZahl: well, opponent sometimes took to long in the first turn

wlesavo: i see

eulerscheZahl: this is a CPU contest. i totally understand that you decided against python

wlesavo: i have some simple mc for the opp, but my initial learning is still very bad

eulerscheZahl: i see some in gold but would be really impressed if they can reach legend that way

eulerscheZahl: i did a bit of offline testing with more time

eulerscheZahl: online: 38 turns to reach a score of 100

eulerscheZahl: offline: 25 turns for a score of 97

eulerscheZahl: so i would still like to get some more sims

yhyoxx: woah

eulerscheZahl: (not from the start, at some state in the middle)

yhyoxx: not bad

Default avatar.png LLG: idk what went wrong with my duplicate detection

Default avatar.png LLG: I had to rewrite GetHashCode and Equals for my classes, but somehow it still doesn't detect any dupes

wlesavo: btw euler how many sims you got from rewrite?

eulerscheZahl: before i was sneaking around 50k

eulerscheZahl: so well worth it

wlesavo: almost x2?

struct: seems closer to 3

eulerscheZahl: 2.5-3x now

kovi: but you cant get that high score without opponent interaction

wlesavo: oh right

eulerscheZahl: also a bit of refactoring, not a 1:1 port

Csipcsirip: u're still singleplayer euler ?

kovi: this is a low interaction game, but not for 20+ turns

eulerscheZahl: no, i consider teh opponent

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: It's pretty sad how i can seemingly easily beat bronze boss, but can't beat other bronze players. Are we all keeping each other stuck in bronze?

eulerscheZahl: of course i can't plan for 20 turns without interference

eulerscheZahl: but maybe i still find some better orders to cast spells or what to learn

kovi: but if you sim opponent for 6turns

eulerscheZahl: 7

kovi: for next 10+ turn this may have influence but not longer

eulerscheZahl: then i can guess for which i'm competing

geppoz: also I think going too deep is not so much useful since, at first LEARN of either player, the condition change in unpredictable state (new tome unknown)

Default avatar.png k7n: beginner question: i'm hanging around 12k nodes with a 49 ms bfs. I'm still using a deque and a node struct with a child vector. What do you do to optimise? Put the whole state in a 2D array and move the deque to an array?

andrefpoliveira: C++. Is better vector or list? To store ints

eulerscheZahl: when i have no clue what i should learn, depth can help

Westicles: vector

eulerscheZahl: not for the final BREW but to know how well the spells fit together

andrefpoliveira: Ok ty!

Default avatar.png ScifiSpirit: andrefpoliveira, content matters less than what you do with the container

Counterbalance: if you're going for speed don't use the STL

Astrobytes: as long as you allocate the size and don't change it vector is fine

Ramdeath: eulerschezahl for learn you use sim?

Counterbalance: it's still a lot slower

eulerscheZahl: static vector to store all spells = bad idea?

eulerscheZahl: of course Ramdeath

geppoz: I'm just sayng that, after 2 or 3 LEARN, the real board has 2 or 3 new spells in tome, so you can imagine to LEARN a nice spell, when in real a nicer one would appear

eulerscheZahl: i still have a heuristic in my scoring that encourages to learn

geppoz: ofc, since it is not possible to predict, we can only go depper

eulerscheZahl: but the sim can also find some cool LEANRs

eulerscheZahl: my favorite replay for learn: frame 16

eulerscheZahl: learn complete nonsense, get free spot in inventory and use for other spells

andrefpoliveira: Nice

geppoz: nice, learn just for pay tax :D

mlemm: the governement is proud of your sim euler

mlemm: tax++

eulerscheZahl: :D

DomiKo: Euler are you simulating 7 enemy turn without yourself?

eulerscheZahl: yes

DomiKo: thx

DomiKo: that tax was epic

Ramdeath: i use vectors, try sim and 4k took 20 ms... depth 5

BrunoFelthes: what kind of search are you using euler?

eulerscheZahl: the beamy kind

DomiKo: It's so funny when my bot goes from 50 to 37

Zhmyh: How can you guys handle up to 170k vertices. I mean I think the vertex traversal algorithm is pretty common (like bfs). But I can only handle up to 30k vertices in 30 ms.

Default avatar.png LLG: idk why I'm timing out after only a few thousand nodes

eulerscheZahl: the trick is to use 40ms

Default avatar.png LLG: is deep cloning a State time consuming?

DomiKo: Zhmyh you need to opti you solution

CommanderCero: Zhmyh do not allocate a lot of memory

DomiKo: make every action in O(1)

Zhmyh: and I'm trying to squeeze out all the performance

DomiKo: and you will be happy

Zhmyh: I don't use heap allocations almost at all

Nerchio: LLG yes probably the most time consuming out of all :P

Zhmyh: All my vectors are static

Default avatar.png LLG: but I do need to deep clone the entire state right?

yhyoxx: vector<Action> go brr

Nerchio: well it depends :S

DomiKo: deep clone could be realy fast

DomiKo: if you have good representation of GameState

CommanderCero: also for example if you use beam-search, aka bfs where you filter

CommanderCero: do not use sort

CommanderCero: but use an heap

eulerscheZahl: huh?

DomiKo: why?

CommanderCero: with an min-heap you can easily see which state has the lowest score

eulerscheZahl: i only sort once. and have a fast add in return

DomiKo: once in turn?

eulerscheZahl: once per depth

DomiKo: ufff

CommanderCero: yeah exactly after i removed that my code got much faster

CommanderCero: reason is pushing to the vector is expensive

CommanderCero: as well as sort

ZarthaxX: well, dont use a vector :P

ZarthaxX: plain array

kovi: but then its m * logm instead of nlogn

DomiKo: sort is O(n log n) bro

reCurse: As always with all these sorts of claims... use a profiler

kovi: (instead m * logn i meant)

reCurse: In the 50ms realm the theory doesn't always hold

CommanderCero: yeah but you avoid the memory allocation, by using an heap i have 2 vectors with size=PruneSize instead of constantly creating a new one

CommanderCero: but yeah could certainly be only for me, but it doubled my depth. On the other hand I do not have an high rank as the toad

Zhmyh: consider creating your custom vector with fixed capacity based on std::array. pretty comfortable and no heap allocations

reCurse: If by based you mean derivated it's a bad idea.

Zhmyh: why derivated

reCurse: Just clarifying

Zhmyh: U can have an std::array member in it.

Zhmyh: Or just raw array

reCurse: Sure, it wasn't clear which version you meant

Zhmyh: But I think derive will do either

Default avatar.png LLG: my state cloning takes like 10k+ ticks

reCurse: Derive is a bad idea because it will mess up with size and others

Default avatar.png LLG: I think I should really find a way to clone faster

Zhmyh: LLG memcpy

Zhmyh: reCurce std::array has only size

reCurse: Don't use memcpy unless you absolutely know what you're doing

Zhmyh: yeah

Default avatar.png LLG: I'm on c# btw

reCurse: size, begin, end, and all friends

reCurse: That's why don't derivate

Default avatar.png LLG: I guess I could try to serialize my obj

Zhmyh: Well, maybe. I'm not sure here

Default avatar.png LLG: a generic deep clone using serialize is much slower than just creating new objects lol

Default avatar.png k7n: wow, i removed the deque for a array and went to +100k from 12k nodes

ZarthaxX: :O pog

andrefpoliveira: k7n what language?

Default avatar.png k7n: c++

andrefpoliveira: Nice then I know what to use xD

Zhmyh: k7n is it on local or on server?

Nerchio: maybe deque was resizing all the time

Default avatar.png k7n: server

Zhmyh: :tired_face: me with 30k

Zhmyh: and no allocations

CommanderCero: what do you mean with static arrays zhmyh

Default avatar.png k7n: but something is off, time to investigate

Zhmyh: CommanderCero just raw array

Zhmyh: like int[5]

Zhmyh: no new

CommanderCero: but how do you search then

Zhmyh: no malloc

Zhmyh: I calculated all the limit sizes

Zhmyh: And each such array has this size

mlemm: must be way inefficient isn't

Zhmyh: And my structure, which contains all this nodes only constructs in the beggining

Zhmyh: Every move I simply reuse it

CommanderCero: im not sure what you mean with limit sizes, i mean the amount of states is probably quite big

Zhmyh: 30k in my case

CommanderCero: yeah but thats the amount of states visited after searching

CommanderCero: im wondering where you store the states during search

Zhmyh: By pointer

Zhmyh: To this big array

Zhmyh: Hm... Is it ok for performance to have 10-15k bytes on stack?

CommanderCero: I have no clue xD

Zhmyh: :tired_face: going back to the profiler

reCurse: 10-15kb should be fine

Cappefra: does anyone else get random "unhandled exception"s in C# without any explanation or reference to the code?

Default avatar.png LLG: I do have to clone all the actions to generate another state right?

Default avatar.png LLG: because right now it's the most time consuming operation for me

Default avatar.png LLG: but idk if I could cut down on it

miszu: so vs bronze bot. I won 10 times and lost 4 times. Is that benchmark enough to be confident to beat the boss in arena?

Conorach: it's good

CoolGlitch: what does OPPONENT_CAST mean?

arkwaw: CAST that is available for your opponent

Astrobytes: it's spells your opponent has cast

geppoz: *can

Astrobytes: *can

Astrobytes: lol

arkwaw: *can

BrunoFelthes: *can

mlemm: *can


Astrobytes: I just know without clicking that's the Can-Can

geppoz: seems we share thoughts man :D

Astrobytes: hahaha

miszu: finished 8th in bronze

miszu: so frustrating

miszu: 3rd now :/

Astrobytes: Wait & see

Astrobytes: might get pushed up

miszu: yeah but arena battle is over now

Westicles: Keep adding learn 0s at the front until you pass

miszu: aaand 1st

miszu: lost vs people who got promoted to silver

dreadylein: grats :)

ClockSort: seems like you'll be silver really soon

ClockSort: it can't be immediate, otherwise there would be nobody in first bronze :)

mlemm: wp miszru

mlemm: anybody know when does legend bracket opens up ?

Default avatar.png JBM: typically friday evening

Default avatar.png JBM: as it says when you click on your league

NitMpez: well... i atleast pushed someone over the boss

ZarthaxX: feels good

thibpat: Hi folks! I'm streaming the Fall Challenge in JS on, feel free to come say hello :wave:

eulerscheZahl: i can say hello here. Hi

kami: ;)

mlemm: :joy:

NitMpez: yeap, hi

Westicles: I love the ones where they sit silently and type and the screen is blurry and sometimes they make snorting sounds

NitMpez: crossing fingers that last 33% pushes me over silver boss

Astrobytes: lol, thibpat does good streams fortunately

NitMpez: man i struggled with silver... i'm dreading gold

Astrobytes: "...and sometimes they make snorting sounds" - so true Westicles :rofl:

NitMpez: well bah... stuck in silver longer

eulerscheZahl: "...and sometimes they make snorting sounds" that would totally be me if i was streaming :D

Default avatar.png JBM: would watch

Astrobytes: But you have a pleasing accent euler

eulerscheZahl: me: "can you hear me" smits: "i hear someone speaking English with a german accept" me: :(

Astrobytes: lol, the trollage

eulerscheZahl: he was muted all the time, didn't want to wake up his daughter

Astrobytes: Gotta get your own back at some point then

Icebox: that's so true tho eulerscheZahl

Default avatar.png Zahra.Alipour: where are you from guys? :)

Icebox: your accent is so german :D

eulerscheZahl: i know :(

struct: Got finally to silver

struct: Now I have 4 days for gold

Icebox: which isn't a bad thing :D

eulerscheZahl: but i won't do calls with MadKnight to improve it

Astrobytes: grats struct :tada:

struct: ty

miszu: lol struct beat me in 2 sec

Astrobytes: Zahra.Alipour hover over our profile pics to see our locations ;)

struct: What do you mean miszu?

eulerscheZahl: miszu promoted right after?

struct: Ok now im more motivated

miszu: struct, you were in bronze or at least someone with your name. You were above the bronze bot and got promoted

miszu: I am still in bronze

Astrobytes: don't resubmit miszu, you're close enough to be pushed up right now

miszu: as 1st

Default avatar.png Zahra.Alipour: thankss :))

miszu: yeah I am not resubmitting

NitMpez: yeah i was above silver boss then horrible string of losses right at end to drop below

struct: Yeah, I think I fought you and miszu quite a bit

NitMpez: i need someone to stomp on silver boss and be nice to me

miszu: what's annoying is I never fought the bronze bot in the arena.

miszu: yet I can win 10/14 in the ide

Default avatar.png Zahra.Alipour: what a beautiful prof :))

struct: 6505 players

Astrobytes: very impressive

miszu: where?

eulerscheZahl: this contest

Astrobytes: this contest

Astrobytes: damnit :D

miszu: I see 17k registered

eulerscheZahl: filter by score:all

Nerchio: so do i simulate the enemy or not? ;d

miszu: ok I see

miszu: lots of people didn't submit anything

NitMpez: so close .03 away from boss

PatrickMcGinnisII: :baby_bottle:

miszu: I know the next step is to write simulations but I am too lazy to write the game engine

miszu: teadious part of an AI

Default avatar.png Zahra.Alipour: dose anyone solves problem E today in cf?

miszu: .4 difference to the bronze bot

eulerscheZahl: we have our own contest running right now. probably not many players here who did codeforces

AshKetchum: miszu, basic simulation for this game is a bit easier than previous contests

miszu: yeah but I don't have lots of free time to invest in that. Techincally I should be working but at work it is a bit dead

Default avatar.png Zahra.Alipour: how can i reply here

struct: Zahra.Alipour type the name

Default avatar.png Zahra.Alipour: oww hard

AshKetchum: type first few letters and press tab, it fills the name

AshKetchum: try ash "tab"

Default avatar.png Zahra.Alipour: aw ok

Jdools05: Hey world, I've decided to totally redo my bot for the Fall Comp... 200 lines in and many more to go. Im trying to future proof it

miszu: I wish I know how to use the unit test framework in visual studio so I could test my game engine if I decide to do it

struct: miszu im sure there are tutorials on it

Westicles: I wonder if someone is going to pop up with solutions that involve crazy math. Big matrix solutions or something

miszu: oh for sure. It's just the time comitment for it.

miszu: neural network

Westicles: Or are the top players pretty much finding optimal paths anyhow?

Jdools05: Westicles, Im trying to find a percentage of fit for spells to target potions.

miszu: GUYS! only .05 diff with the boss bot

miszu: .03 now

PatrickMcGinnisII: game paths beyond 2 brews become really fuzzy, is running all the probabilities beyond that point really worth it? I mean you would have to be top 5 er something

Zenoscave: Patrick I can get apath with 5 items but My scoring between paths is wonky

PatrickMcGinnisII: I thought rating the learnable by cost to benefit ratio would be fun. but then I see top bots finding seemingly illogical combinations that are just way powerful

Zenoscave: Abandoned that attempt

miszu: I am above the boss now

NitMpez: gratz

miszu: SILVER!

miszu: hahahah finally

miszu: I can die in peace

ZarthaxX: gz!

Astrobytes: gz miszu

Jdools05: miszu, you will be able to rest for a few minutes and then the drive to move higher will return

PatrickMcGinnisII: My learnables aren't in my tree, I'm rewriting... it's pretty necessary to optimize learns for gold

Zenoscave: Learning mid game? Is that done now?

malcoriel: what's going on with silver? Boss has no rank?

NitMpez: i'm struggling making performance increases... get around a depth of 5 to 6 in 50ms running 130+k sim turns

NitMpez: bosses never have a rank


struct: My bot likes tier 0

NitMpez: just road blocks between leagues

PatrickMcGinnisII: i grab the potentially good spells within the first 16 turns, but I'm not finding the killer combos that the top bots r using

NitMpez: my bot likes losing :P

PatrickMcGinnisII: i had a game where the 0 position spell had 20 ingredients on it as tax

ZarthaxX: the f :rofl:

RockyMullet: hum, after some profiling, I spend 13% of my sim time on just copying game states

RockyMullet: seems like a lot

ZarthaxX: bad carne

ZarthaxX: you gotta meat up your game carne

RockyMullet: and 39% of the sim just checking what are the valid next moves

RockyMullet: so I didnt improve anything during my lunch break, but at least I know why my bot sucks lol

Astrobytes: if Rocky looks towards the sunset in an evening, does that make him Carne West? :thinking:

ZarthaxX: wat

miszu: thanks Astrobytes and Jdools05. But for getting to gold, I need to write the simulation now. I need to work out and do "socializing"

**RockyMullet is impressed by Astrobytes's pun

MadKnight: because that's not how u improve your accent eulerscheZahl

Astrobytes: Or, "the engines carne take it captain" in reference to your sim RockyMullet

Jdools05: miszu, I wish you the best! good luck!

eulerscheZahl: the more relevant question: how do i improve my bot?

RockyMullet: I profiled my sim and the results are in: it's carnage

Astrobytes: heh heh

MadKnight: fancy enemy predictions ?

Default avatar.png TIKCUS: lol

miszu: eulerscheZahl, because the game is new it would be good to study the domain of the game and see what would consider a good move or not.

kovi: copy closet draws?

Q12: > MadKnight jump to his home and check what his doing :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

MadKnight: where is a bot's home Q12 ?

MadKnight: is it inside server's memory ?

Default avatar.png TIKCUS:

Q12: yeah, I believe in you! you can do it :stuck_out_tongue:

Default avatar.png TIKCUS: can anyone help me to solve this

Westicles: Offline search, find casts that tend to go together so you can group them

Default avatar.png 41148: what is Offline search?

eulerscheZahl: that's something i've thought about but totally don't want to do Westicles :(

Default avatar.png TIKCUS: :(

NitMpez: same

eulerscheZahl: would be locam all over again

PatrickMcGinnisII: TIKCUS just setup a linkmap and then loop from left to right top to bottom, pretty easy


miszu: eulerscheZahl, do you simulate your opponent as well?

sirsatan: isnt 1st tome free ?

eulerscheZahl: yes

sirsatan: or some bug

struct: 1st index of tome

struct: not first learn

eulerscheZahl: 7 turns ahead fo the opponent

miszu: does it help a lot to simulate opponent?

eulerscheZahl: so i know when the game will end

Default avatar.png TIKCUS: PatrickMcGinnisII hmmm ok thanks i misunderetood the limit

eulerscheZahl: not a lot but helps

struct: Similar to STC help?

eulerscheZahl: maybe 5-10 ranks

Default avatar.png TIKCUS: 41148

Default avatar.png TIKCUS: hi gol

eulerscheZahl: for stc i am 4th without opponent sim, so...

Default avatar.png 41148: TIKCUS salam :upside_down:

miszu: lots of work invovled

struct: Well if there were this many players on STC, it could matter there too

eulerscheZahl: i'm not sure if i want to keep playing this game :(

miszu: my bronze code can beat 18 silver ppls

struct: cmon euler, too late to quit

struct: Just rest 1 day or something

darkhorse64: You'll be the Gold boss

struct: now he wont play for sure

eulerscheZahl: tomorrow afternoon i'll do some math tutoring. i'm bad at saying no

Default avatar.png JBM: on twitch?

miszu: what math you tutor?

eulerscheZahl: "tan, cos and that other thing"

eulerscheZahl: in person, no stream

Default avatar.png TIKCUS: do you really prefer here to interesthing game

Icebox: cool :o

Icebox: do you know coronaschool eulerscheZahl?

aStar: hi all

eulerscheZahl: yeah, that's where she has an exam on tuesday

aStar: :3 anyone used A* for searching?

ZarthaxX: so its a *she* heh

eulerscheZahl: so to the last-minute rescue

ZarthaxX: too humble

Default avatar.png JBM: yeah I've used you a few times

aStar: i just used depth-limited search for creating game tree

aStar: i can't find good heuristics to apply for A* :3

dbf: aStar, what's about witch.score? :)

aStar: i just calculate the path score of the game tree by using Price of receipts

aStar: and then a choose best path to move

aStar: the idea is "make a game tree with all possible path, and choice best path to move" :3

miszu: when you code in c++ with a java mentality. I get caught with the copy constructor thinking I am just copying the pointer like in java

eulerscheZahl: my c++ looks like c89 standard

struct: lol

dbf: lol, I call it 'c with classes'

eulerscheZahl: i started this contest with really clean, structured code

miszu: I just find it disapointing there are less jobs for C++. Mostly because not many developers in c++ and also the high maintenance cost

eulerscheZahl: how can it get that bad in a single week?

dbf: I have structured code only when I'm reading stdin

eulerscheZahl: because that's the default template

DomiKo: how can it get that bad in a single day, that's a question

dbf: that's my polished template to put stdin into my objects :)

eulerscheZahl: right, i started c++ yesterday

miszu: you need to up your coding standard :D

eulerscheZahl: i need more global arrays

DomiKo: when I look at my code I think that's UTTT

eulerscheZahl: at which sector of my code am i allowed to add something?

dbf: somewhere in Utils.h

Donotalo: what's UTTT?

struct: ultimate tic tac toe

BrunoFelthes: what local tester is working with this referee? cg-brutal tester is working?

wlesavo: dbdr keep that version to push me to the legend plz :slight_smile:

dbdr: ok :)

wlesavo: and dont go to the legend before that :slight_smile:

dbdr: well, this version won't

Default avatar.png Anonymoussssss: yah

Skynse: I went to take a bath right after joining a clash, when I came back it was lift with 16 seconds.

Skynse: Hehe, you could say I timed myself, now I know that it takes 15 minutes for me to bath

mlemm: are you naked then ?

Skynse: NO

Skynse: oops caps was on

mlemm: i tought bath duration only includes bathing

Skynse: I don't really bath according to the standard term of bathing

Skynse: I think you're thinking of the "bath" where you sit in a tub of water

mlemm: so you stand up, i see.

Skynse: I just fill water in a bucket, get a sponge, rub it with soap and clean myself, then take a pale and pour water on myself

Skynse: I can shower but eh

mlemm: that's optimized bathing.

Nerchio: normally at this point i have 2k lines of code, only 700 so far though :D

Skynse: dang

emh: I have 558 lines of code. just submitted. hoping for Gold league hehe

emh: normally I hit 2-3k lines of code at the end

emh: but seems like less is necessary for this contest yes

AntiSquid: already past me emh, how many nodes are you checking?

Nerchio: 300 000

MadKnight: so everyone is doing BS now ?

AntiSquid: not you, emh

AntiSquid: did you hear that guys? MadKnight called your bots BS, are you going to let him do that without saying anything back? Automaton2000 say something

Automaton2000: will it be possible to write a sim

Nerchio: lol

emh: AntiSquid 240k

AntiSquid: ah ok i am only at 10k, completely unoptimized

MadKnight: BS is Bathing Strategy, Automaton2000

Automaton2000: and you have to loop over

emh: I'm doing BFS

emh: with some optimization on seen score

Icebox: how the f do you evaluate 240k states :thinking:

Icebox: do you consider learning spells?

Icebox: or just spellcasts?

emh: yes

Icebox: bruh .-.

AntiSquid: but why no gold at 240k ?

AntiSquid: bugs somewhere?

emh: AntiSquid just submitted

andrefpoliveira: For c++, what is the best way to measure time

emh: waiting to see

andrefpoliveira: ?

emh: Icebox build a transition table first from state to state using learn+spell,spell,dup spell,brew. then lookup the table in BFS

emh: andrefpoliveira

Icebox: I do have a transition table but you need to keep the track of tome tho

emh: high_resolution_clock::time_point now = high_resolution_clock::now();

  1. define TIME duration_cast<duration<double>>(high_resolution_clock::now() - now).count()

emh: Icebox why tome?

Icebox: to know what you can learn?

emh: don't you only build the table once per turn? takes like 2-3 ms

Icebox: oh you mean build the table every turn huh

Icebox: interesting

eulerscheZahl: so, how many states do you get Icebox?

Icebox: just 50k but also unoptimized

Icebox: and still testing

sadakatsu: It takes 2-3 seconds to build your transposition table? Now I am very sad.

sadakatsu: *ms

emh: sadakatsu why sad?

sadakatsu: My version that uses a transposition table builds it while I sim, and I get maybe 2,000 nodes within 50 ms...

emh: what lang?

sadakatsu: C++

sadakatsu: Though it is certainly not my strongest language.

emh: hmm.. using arrays? or STL?

sadakatsu: So far, I'm using STL. I have an `unordered_set<GameState>` and a `std::has<GameState>`.

emh: I'm using mostly arrays

MadKnight: hmm i'm using bool[10][10]

sadakatsu: I have ideas to write something myself, but I don't have the time during my workday.

emh: but vectors for children

MadKnight: bool[10][10][10][10]

emh: MadKnight is it joke? seems like strange configuration

AntiSquid: lol

MadKnight: it's a single-player config

sadakatsu: For my next attempt, I am going to use something that fits within a `int_fast64_t`, and will then write a static transposition table to use those for hashing.

emh: uint16_t ret = i0 | (i1 << 4) | (i2 << 8) | (i3 << 12);

emh: only need 16 bits for the state

Zenoscave: what about totals?

sadakatsu: By my calculations, I need 62,

emh: Zenoscave totals? what you need them for?

Icebox: emh ah a fellow bit user

emh: hehe

Zenoscave: I use 30 bits

emh: I only use totals while building the transposition table

sadakatsu: I wanted 30 bits, but I don't see any way around using 46 bits for the spells.

emh: for the spells I use 64

Icebox: I use more bits tho to represent negative numbers and keep it same for both spells and state

emh: but I'm not actually using the spell bits now

emh: anymore

emh: using the vectors of children nodes with a bunch of data

emh: only states are "compressed"

sadakatsu: Arg! Too interesting. DO YOUR JOB, SADAKATSU! <leaves />

phord: :laugh: :wave:

emh: you have to work sadakatsu? how sad akatsu

Zenoscave: CASTS LEARNS and BREWS are all 30

emh: damnit.. seems like not Golden boy yet.. 135 and 67%

emh: I win against boss though so just need to get to it

emh: probably should start to take into account fast spellers

emh: with opponent score


emh: final rank 76.. ok resubmit

emh: PatrickMcGinnisII how to use those numbers?

NitMpez: just ranking spells that you should attempt to learn

RockyMullet: my lights of flashing... not now, I need to fix my bot's perf :sweat_smile:

AntiSquid: when almost every league is the size of a multiplayer :thinking:

RockyMullet: AntiSquid yeah, I wonder, is it the biggest contest ever ?

RockyMullet: or was that hexagonal boat one bigger ?

AntiSquid: it is

PatrickMcGinnisII: it's just a single use type thing... so you subtract the tax/2, if it's still >=0 might as well learn it

RockyMullet: kk

AntiSquid: rocky pirates of the carribean had some forced submits in it

AntiSquid: pacman beat pirates despite that fact

RockyMullet: :O

AntiSquid: now this game beat pacman

RockyMullet: pacman was fun, I'll come back to it after this contest

AntiSquid: by a lot

RockyMullet: how many submitted bhot now ? 5k-6k ?

AntiSquid: 6500+++

RockyMullet: damn

AntiSquid: last contest it was 4950 or so

RockyMullet: yeah its first by a big margin

AntiSquid: need to add timer to my turns

lowzhao: what happend again ... the timeout wave is coming

ParticleBeam: Oh for some kind of API call to see how much time you have left according to the referee

MSmits: hi guys

MSmits: me sad, no time for contest :(

AntiSquid: hi

AntiSquid: lol i thought you're stuck overengineering and overplanning

MSmits: was hoping to make time this weekend, but not gonna happen

MSmits: nah, it's just a lot of work / study stuff, too much to handle

ZarthaxX: i still love you smito

ZarthaxX: :*

PatrickMcGinnisII: i tested against your bot yesterday ParticleBeam, helped me improve by about 300 spots and made me realize I had to do a full rewrite.

MSmits: love you too zarthy

emh: hi MSmits

ZarthaxX: this game has bits magic too smito

MSmits: i did make a self learning hexapawn bot :P

ZarthaxX: you are missing :(

MSmits: i know

ZarthaxX: :O nice

MSmits: its for work though

MSmits: to explain machine learning in a very simple way

RockyMullet: MSmits a search heavy one too, that's your specialty :O

MSmits: I know

MSmits: i did get into bronze last friday, after that no time

struct: Hello MSmits

struct: long time

MSmits: normally for contest, i work ahead so i have 10 days to spare, but i moved in october

MSmits: so i was already behind on work and studie

MSmits: hi struct

MSmits: good to see you

AntiSquid: yup timeouts at 40ms

MSmits: btw if anyone wants to try it for this contest

blasterpoard: hi MSmits ... I too haven't cubmitted in 4 days because I have no time :(

MSmits: I am thinking smitsimax

struct: thanks, good to see u2

emh: hehe

MSmits: sucks blasterpoard

struct: blasterpoard did smitsi earlier iirc

MSmits: maybe this weekend?

AntiSquid: blaster is gold already lol

AntiSquid: some kinda indirect humble brag right there

MSmits: not sure, blaster is really good, might be the algo is handicapping him :P

Astrobytes: Hey MSmits :)

struct: MSmits but wont smitsimax have the same problem that it would have on FB?

MSmits: hey there Astrobytes

MSmits: struct it would i think yes

MSmits: but you can make nodes into objectives maybe? Combined with heuristics

MSmits: i am just guessing, i spent too little time on this, just 2-3 hrs

AntiSquid: i just don't see how it's possible to time out if i go over 25ms . :/

blasterpoard: im not getting handicapped by the algo, but work + online uni leave me with <6 hours of sleep

blasterpoard: the algo got to #1 early on

MSmits: either you're timing wrong, or something big happens after your last measurement AntiSquid

MSmits: thats great blasterpoard

Astrobytes: there are timeout issues currently tho

AntiSquid: i am breaking out of the big stuff

struct: CG is having timeout issues

blasterpoard: currently, if you go over 26ms, there is a chance of randomly timeouting

struct: Even at 40ms I get timeuts sometimes

AntiSquid: that's 30 ms time to do the stuff that my code usually does in 0.1 ms if i don't push it

Icebox: so I was onto something when I talked with reCurse about this on discord huh

MSmits: ahh ok on CG side

MSmits: makes sense

Icebox: cause I never experienced anything like it

MSmits: is re curse playing?

NoobCod3: hello guys

Icebox: I believe so, is he?

MSmits: good

Astrobytes: we were experiencing these issues in some multis too past few months

NoobCod3: hello everybody

struct: hi

Astrobytes: Not speaking for him but it's a "maybe" from re Curse. Hope he does.

Nerchio: ofc he's playing

Icebox: he's probably working 24/7 on it but won't submit if it's not 1st kappa

Icebox: :D

Nerchio: why do you think hes chatting about the game all the time in discord and here :D

AntiSquid: because he's playing dota and chatting while queuing up

reCurse: 1) Because it's fun to chat on CG when it's not dead 90% of the time. 2) I mentioned 3 possibilities: not playing, hiding, smurfing

Astrobytes: ^

lowzhao: learn more is very useful

Icebox: wait what does smurfing accomplish?

reCurse: Deniability

Icebox: oh

Astrobytes: :D

Icebox: of course :D

AntiSquid: make people feel bad for getting wrecked by a level 3

MSmits: reCurse I'm just glad to see you participating

MSmits: even if it's an open secret

reCurse: fwiw I was active on the chat during ooc and didn't actually play much beyond a day or two

AntiSquid: let's guess the smurf then? what are the chances he is learning Rust ?

Icebox: same msmits, when recurse is in the chat, the chat seems at least 5 years more mature on average :D

RockyMullet: yeah smurfing is good, like everybody knows I suck, but nobody knows what reCurse is doing, so if he fail, he can only say he never participate

Icebox: nice to have you back :D

reCurse: Are you sure it's not just the contest attracting more mature people? :thinking:

Icebox: do you want me to share my 5am chat screenshot collection?

RockyMullet: old witches brings old coders

reCurse: 5am chat, spooky

NinjaDoggy: :O

Icebox: or some classic lvl3 meetups

NinjaDoggy: I've overtaken Psyho as the best bot to only learn for the first 8 turns

NinjaDoggy: :D

Icebox: they can communicate in emojis only tho

Icebox: so noone will understand

RockyMullet: That's late night NA chat, it can go south yeah haha

Icebox: yeah that's what I mean :D

RockyMullet: when the european admins are sleeping, the edgy 13 yo americans are awake

RockyMullet: at least reCurse is admin now

reCurse: :hammer:

Icebox: me still no icon reeee

ParticleBeam: Ban all hammers

Icebox: I had it 4 times now

Icebox: and it's gone again

AntiSquid: just mods

NinjaDoggy: doesn't admin just lag your codingame experience? :P

reCurse: Just rumors, it lags for everyone

Astrobytes: Icebox is it definitely gone [your mod status] or is it just your mod icon? Ille dan shows up without icon but can still mod

Icebox: just icon

reCurse: Undercover mod

Icebox: :hammer:

Astrobytes: Yeah, you're 1337, you should be happy!

Astrobytes: IceSpy

struct: Its not meant to be Icebox im sorry

Default avatar.png dqiu27: hi

RockyMullet: hello

Astrobytes: was the site wonky there for a bit or was it just my end?

AntiCheap: Let's goo!!!

AntiSquid: are you winning son ?

AntiCheap: No :P

AntiCheap: I'm waiting for it to settle

AntiCheap: I need to pass so I can have fun

AntiCheap: I must ensure nobody is first in silver using go

AntiCheap: Full respect to optplx still

Default avatar.png optplx: :joy:

AntiCheap: How long do we need to wait XD

AntiCheap: I think my old code would've passed too but I didn't wait enough

Default avatar.png optplx: it seems much longer than usual doesn't it?

AntiCheap: yeah

AntiCheap: I got here always going for top price potion :')

Default avatar.png optplx: 25 minutes so far and it says 70% done

AntiCheap: at least we know we may pass

AntiCheap: It's bad when you need to confront algorithms

Default avatar.png optplx: fingers crossed

AntiCheap: I was invited by Karang I need to be in same league at least

Default avatar.png optplx: I have just optimized mine memory wise after a while of twicking and tricking

Default avatar.png optplx: you ll pass for sure

AntiCheap: I sum invs as u32

Default avatar.png optplx: I m closer to bossdorf

Default avatar.png optplx: ah nice trick

Default avatar.png optplx: will do

AntiCheap: He said I'm using SWAR or something like so.

AntiCheap: I just played around with a site he sent me to see assembly code.

AntiCheap: I learned a good amount of things with this game

AntiCheap: The algorithm is pretty basic still

Default avatar.png optplx: i was brutally storing entire structs in my loops, I have removed like 90% of it and increased the depth of my tree by more than 3 times

Default avatar.png optplx: yeah the algorithm was not the issue

Default avatar.png optplx: it was the perf

AntiCheap: I started with js and I got to 9k nodes rust got to 480k but I had to lower them as most were useless.

AntiCheap: I took more time to find best potion to brew

Default avatar.png optplx: haha nice, rust is on my todo

Default avatar.png JeovanGomes: hello

Default avatar.png optplx: everybody talks about it these days

AntiCheap: to me it's just cleaner

AntiCheap: stinky boss grows

Beresta: damn, #62 in silver, 2 loses out of 4 timed out on 1st turn :(

AntiCheap: I still time out and brew pots that make me lose :(

Beresta: yea, I haven't yet touched endgame at all

Default avatar.png optplx: timeout for me was more due to memory actually

Beresta: even if 1 brew remaining to end the game - my bot plays as if it was early

AntiCheap: I'm not sure how much memory is occupied by game states as I store them

AntiCheap: but on js I had big problems

Default avatar.png optplx: it was about 300 to 400 mb if i recall correctly

Default avatar.png optplx: huge

Default avatar.png optplx: that's it @AntiCheap

Default avatar.png optplx: good job

AntiCheap: GL

Default avatar.png optplx: hope to see you soon :p

Default avatar.png optplx: thx

AntiCheap: Everything apart I'm having a lot of fun

Default avatar.png optplx: yeah me too

AntiCheap: By everything apart I mean I didn't study for maths and got 4.5/10

Default avatar.png optplx: :laughing:

Astrobytes: Come on man, don't slack on your maths

Astrobytes: It'll pay off later ;)

RockyMullet: yeah math > everything

AntiCheap: Nothing personal with maths

AntiCheap: Just the teacher annoyed me

RockyMullet: that I can understand

Astrobytes: I had the same issue in secondary school, failed it yet got top grades in physics (work that one out). Did it later in dedicated courses at Uni and by myself

Astrobytes: And now calculus is afraid of me.

Astrobytes: (that's a joke)

AntiCheap: The teacher wants proof his way, the point is he never proves anything.

AntiCheap: Yesterday I tought he was gonna calculate euler's number I tought he was mad.

AntiCheap: In the end he just replaced with another formula he knew.

Astrobytes: Is he just getting you used to proofs or what?

Astrobytes: (I don't know what level you're at)

AntiCheap: I'm in high school. He makes a mess when explaining.

Astrobytes: If you don't like the way your teacher explains things there are numerous places on the interwebz with strong maths tutorials

Astrobytes: Some of the youtube ones are really cool

AntiCheap: I understood more with 10 minutes of a stupid khan accademy video than in 1 month.

AntiCheap: Problem is he wants to hear wrong things his way.

Astrobytes: Khan Academy vids are not stupid

AntiCheap: By stupid I mean simple

AntiCheap: Not bad

Default avatar.png JeovanGomes: comecei a pouco tempo com a linguagem C alguma dica?

Astrobytes: Yeah, we all get teachers like that. But if you get the Khan academy vids better, then it doesn't matter. Just learn the maths and you'll pass your exams

struct: JeovanGomes #pt

Astrobytes: And ENJOY it if possible, when you get it it's great fun

Astrobytes: Or at least very satisfying ;)

AntiCheap: My solution is very simple, say fuck him in a way he doesn't understand, once i'm out of this school say so in a way he does.

Astrobytes: Stuff your teacher, just learn however you can if he's not helping

Zenoscave: Sum(Orders, Order.Price / TurnsToComplete(Order))

Zenoscave: why is this^ not working well?

AntiCheap: I wanted to add funny texts to the actions

AntiCheap: all I need to make fun of is my code haha

Astrobytes: I truly wish youtube was around when I was at highschool

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien:

ParticleBeam: Zeno, from what I've seen, the bot might chase the next "best" solution until it runs out of turns or the other bot makes 6 potions?

Astrobytes: NguyenVinhHien: post that link in #clash then ask people to join in here - it pollutes the chat

AntiCheap: Btw couple days ago I joined a code clash I got so pissed as someone "hardcoded" replies. I tried doing so and it didn't work so I lost.

AntiCheap: 2x dumb

Zenoscave: ParticleBeam It always choses cheapest

Astrobytes: they hardcoded for the validators? Were they the same as the tests?

Zenoscave: I'm trying to get around it

Astrobytes: pewpewpew

AntiCheap: They hardcoded replies for inputs

Astrobytes: yeah when you submit the inputs are supposed to be different from the ones you get in the IDE (but similar)

Zenoscave: pewpew astro

Illedan: Wow, wala with Java :O

Astrobytes: AntiCheap: so either the validators are the same as the inputs or the user knew the validators

Nerchio: yeah wala very impressive

Astrobytes: Still in bronze with highly minimal effort. I keep trying to start a proper bot but I get distracted or bored :/

AntiCheap: I tried to set up a proper bot, too. I still need to implement learning.

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien:

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien:

Astrobytes: NguyenVinhHien: did you see my previous message?

Icebox: no, I don't think I will

Counterbalance: !banhammer incoming!

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien: ?

Astrobytes: NguyenVinhHien: Post clash links in #clash

Astrobytes: NguyenVinhHien: Then invite people to your clash like "join me in #clash"

Cappefra: how strong do you have to be to be ranked 31 having last submitted on the 14th

Cappefra: crazy

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien: ok

Astrobytes: NguyenVinhHien: You can post "join me in #clash" in this chat, just not the link. It makes the chat messy :)

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien: oke

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien: i see

Astrobytes: awesome

Astrobytes: Also, people will see your clash in the clash page anyway

AntiCheap: is it real this enemy still doesn't show his real behaviour?

Astrobytes: Arena match or IDE?

AntiCheap: IDE

Astrobytes: Well, the Rust debug mode issue is fixed so he must have timed out legit.

Astrobytes: (emil. is using Rust)

Astrobytes: Reproducible?

AntiCheap: Same 🦀

AntiCheap: I'll try another match

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien: #join me in clash

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien: join me in #clash

Icebox: there u go

Astrobytes: lol rustacean city :D

Astrobytes: Perfect NguyenVinhHien :)

Astrobytes: NguyenVinhHien: You have to post your clash link in #clash < click on this

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien: excute me which programming language is good for web back end?

Astrobytes: How long is a piece of string?

ParticleBeam: Anywhere between 1 and 6

Icebox: I've seen a piece of string be 7 long

ParticleBeam: Null I say

Astrobytes: I've seen one at 8 and 20.3 long at the same time

Astrobytes: ^I think "that was" would have been better than "at" on reflection :o

Icebox: all my strings are at 8 long

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien: join with us #clash

Astrobytes: all my strings are 1.616255(18)×10−35 m

Zenoscave: is that a plank

Astrobytes: yesh

Astrobytes: minus a ^

Zenoscave: fair

ParticleBeam: planck?

Astrobytes: With a name like ParticleBeam you should know, no? :D

reCurse: Nice

ParticleBeam: Perhaps. I think it's spelled "planck" though

Zenoscave: I thinck you're right

Astrobytes: (hence my comment ;) )

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien: join #clash

Astrobytes: Max Plank worked on pirate ships

Zenoscave: Getting kinda spammy NguyenVinhHien

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien: ?

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien: i invite everyone join clash

Zenoscave: No one is joining clash because there's an active competition

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien: its wrong?

Zenoscave: not wrong. just a bit too frequent for me

Zenoscave: maybe I'm wrong

Astrobytes: It's not a great time for clashing, there's a multiplayer competition running NguyenVinhHien

Icebox: look at it this way NguyenVinhHien, how many of us did join your clash?

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien: invite everyone join clash is spamming?

Icebox: from the chat

Icebox: I can help you with that, it's probably 0

reCurse: Only 200 active submissions? Did they hire more hamsters or people are giving up?

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien: i still invite. dont bother you join or not

Astrobytes: Asking is less spamming than posting the links but just don't ask too often NguyenVinhHien, if people don't join - it means they don't want to

Icebox: ^

Icebox: reCurse people giving up on the hamsters I think

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien: where can i see the numer of onlining?

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien: you dont want its not mean that others dont want

Icebox: As a moderator of this website and the CG community as a whole I'm pretty sure he's a good representation of what we want and what we don't want NguyenVinhHien

Astrobytes: That's why I said it's OK to ask, but don't ask for every single clash

Astrobytes: @NguyenVinhHien

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien: the unfriendly community

Astrobytes: NguyenVinhHien: Just chill bro

Astrobytes: Really

Default avatar.png JBM: oooh, is it here we can be unfriendly?

Astrobytes: Make clashes

Astrobytes: People will join!

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien: thanks but i dont want

reCurse: Where's deepmind when you need it

Icebox: then don't play if you don't want it NguyenVinhHien

Icebox: noone is forcing you

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien: yep thanks

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien: i think hackerrank is better

reCurse: Bye

Icebox: then you're on the wrong website I think

Astrobytes: NguyenVinhHien: did you try puzzles or multiplayer bot programming?

Astrobytes: Should I just give up now?

reCurse: You have the patience of a monk

Zenoscave: I think yes

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien: :)

Default avatar.png NguyenVinhHien: bye

Icebox: :wave:

Astrobytes: Yeah, I wish I had less sometimes tbh

Default avatar.png amitrishi: hello guys

Default avatar.png amitrishi: I wanted to know the codinggame tutorial question where it asks to find a number in a sorted array. if I solve by writing my own binary search, it says I did not use the library function

Default avatar.png amitrishi: How can that affect when I give a test

Astrobytes: Is this an interview/screening test amitrishi?

pde-bakk: Sometimes the goal of an exercise isnt to show you can code everythin yourself, but to show you the (library) tools you have at your disposal

ClockSort: can someone provide the link to the competition? thanks!


Astrobytes: ClockSort: For future reference just click on COMPETE at the top of the page, or the home icon, should find it that way too

Default avatar.png amitrishi: it is a tutorial inside a interview invite

ClockSort: oh, fall challenge 2020. yep that's a doozy. :D

ClockSort: i'm Gold #75, thinking of starting over in C++ :P

Astrobytes: Ah OK amitrishi, which language? They seem to be expecting you to use the language features in this case rather than your own implementations, as pde-bakk said

Default avatar.png amitrishi: hmm

Default avatar.png amitrishi: But it is not clear from the question to use library function..

Default avatar.png amitrishi: i hope when i give the actual test, there should not be any ambiguity

Astrobytes: What position is the interview for?

Default avatar.png amitrishi: senior software engineer

Astrobytes: language?

Default avatar.png amitrishi: c++

Astrobytes: Have you spoken with your recruiter to determine what they expect?

Default avatar.png amitrishi: nope

Default avatar.png amitrishi: I will send them a mail to ask

Zenoscave: That mightbe a good idea

Astrobytes: When is your test?

Astrobytes: *deadline for your test

Astrobytes: And definitely contact them to see what they expect, or everything will go wrong from the start to be honest with you!

TC9792: is there an easy way to find out battles that I lost?

Zenoscave: Look at last battles

Zenoscave: on the left in the ide

TC9792: ya but need to go though them one by one?

Default avatar.png amitrishi: thanks for your suggestions guys

Zenoscave: Yeah

TC9792: ok thx

Astrobytes: amitrishi: good luck man :)

Astrobytes: OK, out for tonight, laters everyone, take care

Default avatar.png amitrishi: thanks

Default avatar.png amitrishi: :)

Icebox: adios Astrobytes

JohnCM: haha now rank 200 silver, i'm on my way to gold

miszu: I am happy I reached silver

miszu: I don't feel like to try for gold

NinjaDoggy: icebox, C++ rewrite/Gold when?

Icebox: long since done

NinjaDoggy: um...

NinjaDoggy: why is it not submitted?

Icebox: because a) the servers are dying anway

reCurse: Not anymore

Icebox: and more importantly b) because I can work on it without submitting

Icebox: so what's the point :D

NinjaDoggy: but it's way harder to come up with ideas without seeing the current short comings?

Icebox: no need for ideas

Icebox: I just need to pump those sim numbers up :)

NinjaDoggy: ok!

NinjaDoggy: I'm honestly so sad...

NinjaDoggy: Fall challenge ends basically right as break starts :(

NinjaDoggy: what do I even do

miszu: try writing in assembly.

miszu: with that you can increase the sim numbers

Icebox: no supported on cg unfortunately :/

Icebox: not*

miszu: otherwise everyone would jump to it

NinjaDoggy: and for most people, compilers write better assembly anyways right?

Samer: what kind of sim numbers are you guys getting?

NinjaDoggy: 50-100k :(

miszu: in 50ms that's a lot

NinjaDoggy: used to be a lot higher before I added opponent sim and stuff

Samer: guess i should quit, i'm at 3k lol

Default avatar.png RicksMLC: 38

Default avatar.png RicksMLC: which might explain why I am still in Bronze :)

miszu: RicksMLC I got silver with no simulations

therealbeef: with 'sim number' you mean the number of state-actions you evaluate?

miszu: just awesome heuristics

Icebox: yeah pretty much therealbeef

Default avatar.png RicksMLC: Actually, just joking. I don't use simulations

Default avatar.png RicksMLC: semi-interesting heuristics and a bit of math

NinjaDoggy: 1 simNum = 1 move + evaluation

miszu: when I hear simulations, that reminds me how ppl simulated covid spread with the game: Plague inc.

Icebox: just like the simulations

NinjaDoggy: lol

NinjaDoggy: move to iceland :D

miszu: trying to do the puzzle of the week. The problem is hard to follow

Samer: i ditched all classes and using only arrays and lists, still only getting 3k... dunno what to do next

raymoo: I made a new heuristic that explores 20x less nodes, but the heuristic is slow enough that I get like 5% faster searching

miszu: Samer, did you try bit operations?

NinjaDoggy: easiest way to up your sim count

NinjaDoggy: is to precompute all possible actions and how they affect inventory

MACKEYTH: One thing I'm considering is capping my sim at a certain number of iterations then going with a best gues

NinjaDoggy: store inventory as a number between 0-1001(inclusive)

NinjaDoggy: and store arrays for transitions

Icebox: what

Icebox: no

Icebox: not inclusive

NinjaDoggy: oops i'm bad

NinjaDoggy: 0-1000 inclusive :(

Icebox: :D

NinjaDoggy: spreading fake news :(

NinjaDoggy: how could i

Samer: miszu no.. i'm not that good of a programmer, i just know a bit c#... maybe silver is all i can reach in this competition

NinjaDoggy: that's why I recommend precomputing :)

NinjaDoggy: no fancy bitmask stuff needed and still relatively performant

NinjaDoggy: also simplifies code a lot honeslty

miszu: precomputing is good actually

Samer: NinjaDoggy you mean precomputing in the first 1000ms?

miszu: yeah

Icebox: no

NinjaDoggy: yes

miszu: no?

Default avatar.png RicksMLC: maybe

miszu: jesus

Icebox: yes?

NinjaDoggy: that's what i do at least

Default avatar.png RicksMLC: umm...

NinjaDoggy: turn 1 doesn't matter too much for me

Default avatar.png RicksMLC: what was the question again?

Icebox: well not the tome tho

NinjaDoggy: and it takes like

NinjaDoggy: 6 ms to precompute lol

Samer: suppose i do that.. that's good for like 6-7 moves, and then what? backt to the crappy sim count

NinjaDoggy: no, precomputing inventory updates

Icebox: oh yeah

Icebox: okay that's different

NinjaDoggy: like given some inventory and some move

NinjaDoggy: it's always going to lead to a fixed inventory

Icebox: yeah yeah that's obv

Icebox: do that to

Icebox: too

miszu: there are so many combinations of inventory upgrades, how can you map all?

NinjaDoggy: "obv" because we talked about it before lol

NinjaDoggy: there's not THAT many

NinjaDoggy: 1001 inventory states

Icebox: no "obv" because probably everyone in the top does is

NinjaDoggy: 46 possible tomes

NinjaDoggy: 36 brews

NinjaDoggy: 6 learns

NinjaDoggy: up to 100 possible taxes

NinjaDoggy: 1001*(46+336+6+100)

NinjaDoggy: not that bad

miszu: rip memory

NinjaDoggy: ? it's nothing...

Icebox: it's not accurate but yeah :D

NinjaDoggy: it's like

NinjaDoggy: 0.8 megabytes

NinjaDoggy: out of 768

miszu: I dind't check but, do you have access to all info for all tomes?

Icebox: yes

ClockSort: a number between 0-1001 cannot store all inventory states

miszu: there 5^10 combinations of inventories

mzbear: why bother with the first 1000ms precalc? why not just generate a partial move dictionary offline for all possible recipes and then include it in the source in all its glory. who cares if the source is several megabytes large, it's still going to launch in under a second

Icebox: it can ClockSort

Icebox: I calculated it in chat on saturday aloready

ClockSort: miszu is right, 5^10 < 1001

Icebox: nope

ClockSort: well, >

ClockSort: :)

NinjaDoggy: there's exactly 1001

NinjaDoggy: your 4 numbers have to add up <= 10

miszu: well 5, the empty

NinjaDoggy: or add up to 10 exactly...

NinjaDoggy: if you want to count empty for some reason

Samer: i don't get it, how can you precompute that when you don't know which combination of 6 tome spells out of 42 you will get

ClockSort: how do you represent the set of 10 Level-3 items?


raymoo: you compute for all 42

Icebox: with a bijection to some number ClockSort

Icebox: what's your method of mapping is up to you

ClockSort: each of your 10 inventory slots can have up to 5 different things in it . { empty, 1, 2, 3, 4 } so that's 5^10. What am I missing?

miszu: some magic trick

NinjaDoggy: order doesn't matter

Icebox: because .1... and 1.... is the same

ClockSort: iguess order

NinjaDoggy: wait...

NinjaDoggy: you're getting that many sims

NinjaDoggy: when your inventory is an array of 10?

NinjaDoggy: ???

ClockSort: how many sims are you getting with this trick, ninjadoggy?

NinjaDoggy: i dunno anymore :(

miszu: ohh I understand now

ClockSort: my inventory is currently a C# ValueTuple<int, int, int, int>

Icebox: uff

NinjaDoggy: sim takes like no time compared to other stuff in my code

ClockSort: and I'm getting 500000 to 900000 sims

NinjaDoggy: 50-100k iterations

NinjaDoggy: each iteration includes 1 sim

miszu: order doesn't matter so there are 5^4 combinations

NinjaDoggy: + a bunch of other stuff

Icebox: you're telling me you get 900k iteratios while copying a 4 value tuple?

miszu: so 625 combinations

RockyMullet: well order matters

ClockSort: icebox yes

Icebox: miszu incorrect again

ClockSort: in c# too

miszu: order doesn't matter

Icebox: I sent you the formula

miszu: you store 4 ints

ClockSort: i'm a madman

miszu: yeah I forgot you can have 10, 0, 0

ClockSort: honestly i'm surprised too :)

reCurse: I don't want to rain on your parade but number of sims doesn't mean anything

reCurse: This is uttt all over again except somehow worse

Icebox: no, that doesn't sound right ClockSort

miszu: Icebox, I don't get your 1001 # of states

JohnCM: resting matters though

ClockSort: do you think I can for(int i = 0; i < 1000000; ++i) { copy my value tuple } in 50ms?

JohnCM: the order you rest

NinjaDoggy: lol reCurse

NinjaDoggy: only depth matters ;)

JohnCM: in python3 i can only evaluate 3k-5k nodes before timing out. depth2-3

Icebox: 1 mil sims is one nanosecond to copy a 4 valued tuple and modify 4 values of it

NinjaDoggy: i'm exhaustively searching all my possible moves in combo with opponent combo moves for a depth of 8+ avg ;)

Icebox: assuming you don't do ANYTHING else

JohnCM: c++?

ClockSort: icebox maybe i'm counting wrong?

NinjaDoggy: i think icebox is right about this one'

Karang: since when copying 128bit is slower than 32 ?

Icebox: that's not how that works karang :D

ClockSort: do these depths seem right for having 12 casts and 5 brews (no LEARN)?

Icebox: copying a TUPLE is slower than an integer

NinjaDoggy: at the end of the day, the only number that matters is the rating :)

Karang: what language?

NinjaDoggy: @clocksort depends on your state and pruning but yes

NinjaDoggy: so I guess you're counting right

ClockSort: no pruning. here's a better example with a better set of spells (more breadth)


NinjaDoggy: for me I = number of nodes

NinjaDoggy: and N = number of edges(aka transitions, aka sims i guess)

NinjaDoggy: D is the search depth

JohnCM: wow depth 7 amazing

JohnCM: how is that possible?

ClockSort: well if i visit a state twice, i don't spend time noticing that.

ClockSort: and i do no pruning.

ClockSort: that helps to be fast and stupid.

Zhmyh: 700k nodes? r u insane?

NinjaDoggy: eh...

NinjaDoggy: it's worth noting repeated states

NinjaDoggy: as you can see from the replay i posted

ClockSort: well that's how you get 700k of them. most are the same :D

Icebox: you can reach the same state with different amount of spells

NinjaDoggy: I search 2 depths ish more

ClockSort: are you pruning?

NinjaDoggy: yes but no

emh: rank 1 in Silver.. hmm.. ok will beat that boss soon I hope

NinjaDoggy: yes, but it's same result as no pruning

NinjaDoggy: 100% guarenteed

ClockSort: why so?

NinjaDoggy: perfect pruning :)

NinjaDoggy: won't give away the trick in contest sry ;)

NinjaDoggy: you can find it on my post mortem in a few dadys

NinjaDoggy: days*

Zhmyh: do you have learned casts information in nodes?

Icebox: if you're still relevant in a few days :D

Icebox: jkjk <3

ClockSort: <3

ClockSort: whoa we both sent hearts without knowing the other would

Icebox: it do be like that

NinjaDoggy: why would you hurt me like that icebox :(

ClockSort: my attempts at pruning are a mess which is why my arena bot isn't using it

ClockSort: i need to upgrade to "perfect pruning"

ClockSort: if you are hashing the state in order to detect duplicates, then it's even more important to keep the state small

ClockSort: tuple of ints has more cost

NitMpez: prune all nodes imo

ClockSort: sorry ninjadoggy, i had to do it... rerun until i find a game where i beat you XD

NitMpez: get to depth 0

Beresta: wua #5 in silver, so close

ClockSort: congrats beresta!

NinjaDoggy: hehe, nice!

NitMpez: i beat emil once... he timed out

Karang: NinjaDoggy you never learn after turn 8 ?

NinjaDoggy: for now yea

Karang: i guess thats a good way of generating less nodes :)

ClockSort: i tried some learning strategies and they were worse than stupid-learning

ClockSort: if you only play against other stupid-learners then you are ok

ClockSort: unless they are ninjadoggy

miszu: you need to find an awesome strategy

NitMpez: hope every match you play your opponent times out

NinjaDoggy: I get 1.5 - 3 times more iterations if I don't use a hashmap...

NitMpez: my strat... cros fingers

NinjaDoggy: how freaking slow is that thing -_-

Karang: it can backfire sometime (sill he beats me most of the time)

Icebox: what

Icebox: accessing values NinjaDoggy?

Icebox: or what

NinjaDoggy: yea unorder_map<int,int>

Icebox: jesus christ

Icebox: *takes notes*

NinjaDoggy: just 2 operations

Zhmyh: I think it will be slower

NinjaDoggy: get, and add

NinjaDoggy: but it cuts my # of iterations down so much :(

ZarthaxX: F

ClockSort: T

NinjaDoggy: anyone have a homebrew hashmap?

ZarthaxX: java?

NinjaDoggy: no, C++

ZarthaxX: ah, you are porting

ClockSort: unlikely a homemade hashmap will beat the built-in one

ZarthaxX: ah, you are already c++

ZarthaxX: lol

NinjaDoggy: wait what if I make a dumb one

ZarthaxX: i have other things

Karang: you need a hashmap or a hashset ?

NinjaDoggy: map

NinjaDoggy: :(

NinjaDoggy: otherwise I would use bloom filter

NinjaDoggy: I guess... I could say screw it?

NinjaDoggy: and just ignore collisions

Karang: thats what i was going to suggest :p

NinjaDoggy: if I'm only hashing like 100k ints

NinjaDoggy: and I make an array of size 2 million

NinjaDoggy: or 10 million or something

NinjaDoggy: I won't get many collisions right?

ZarthaxX: just throw memory :D

ZarthaxX: if your hash function is ok

ZarthaxX: possiblyt

NinjaDoggy: can't I just use the int % array size?

NinjaDoggy: and make array size prime?

ZarthaxX: i just mean the int thing

ZarthaxX: not the modulo part

NinjaDoggy: because surely double the amount of computation outweights the negligible amount of collisions right

ClockSort: make an array with int.maxvalue elements

NinjaDoggy: uh....

ZarthaxX: should yes

Zhmyh: Isn't it what std::unordered_map does anyway?

Zhmyh: hash(int) = int

Icebox: yup

Icebox: for integers it's identity function

NinjaDoggy: ok I have some ideas about making a better hashmap

NinjaDoggy: gonna go try them

NinjaDoggy: and report back :)

NinjaDoggy: surely I can make it faster since it's such a niech usecase

ClockSort: ninjadoggy do you reuse your knowledge from the search at turn T during turn T+1?

NinjaDoggy: nope

ClockSort: why not?

NinjaDoggy: um...

NinjaDoggy: because I haven't implemented it :D

NinjaDoggy: you're right I should

NinjaDoggy: if no learns, or brews are done

NinjaDoggy: I should resuse

NinjaDoggy: thx

ClockSort: that's a killer improvement

ClockSort: it will let you seek to infinity and beyond

NinjaDoggy: thx! lol

ClockSort: (i was seeking beyond until i fixed my potion-counting code for game-end)

Icebox: wow ClockSort, now you actually made his bot okay

Icebox: shame

Icebox: :D

NinjaDoggy: hey... my bot was ok before this

NinjaDoggy: unlike someone sitting in silver >.>

Icebox: ;)

NinjaDoggy: :^)

Icebox: might sit there till sunday

Icebox: it's comfy here

Icebox: ;)

NinjaDoggy: wait realization!

NinjaDoggy: if i make my own hashmap

NinjaDoggy: I can have a function that's add and check if exists at the same time :O

NinjaDoggy: ok these are some sick performance gains I'm about to get

ClockSort: if you make your own language you can make a funciton that plays and wins at the same time

NinjaDoggy: XD

Icebox: someone proposed assembly already :^)

ClockSort: is the memory limit really 768MB?

Icebox: yes

MarekM: sometimes i have feeling that it is 768KB

ClockSort: my state is 32 bytes. so i can seek up to 24000000 states. good.

ClockSort: :laughing:

ClockSort: ninjadoggy you should use a space instead of a pipe, it will make your debug output easier to read for your opponents ;)

Icebox: gamewinning tips

phord: Doesn't emplace already let you lookup and insert at the same time? Seems like there was a recent cost change, though.

NinjaDoggy: nah I like my pipes :)

NinjaDoggy: I need to truncate my doubles though...

NinjaDoggy: who cares after like the 2nd digit

miszu: I think I will give a try to reach gold

miszu: everyone talking about sims and I will make my own sims... with blackjack table and hookers

NinjaDoggy: wait darn, I can't take clock sort's advice of keeping previous info :(

Icebox: that's the spirit

NinjaDoggy: after I add in more advanced learning

miszu: do I need to get rid of classes? Is using classes will slow down the sims by a lot?

Bobbadillio: probably depends on language?

miszu: C++

Zhmyh: then no

Bobbadillio: If it were python, almost definitely though :D

Bobbadillio: switching to arrays would be a HUGE speedup

miszu: yeah but arrays you need to know in advance the size and all

miszu: and I will think how to precompute all permutations of inventories and spells

miszu: but I still don't agree with the 1001 combinations of inventories

Bobbadillio: miszu, do you know "stars and bars" from combinatorics?

Zhmyh: but it's true actually muszu

Beresta: how could you not agree with that

miszu: mmm.. last time I used was in discrete math class 8 years ago

Bobbadillio: ignoring everything but what's actually in your inventory, this is a classic "stars and bars" problem, and it turns into 14 choose 4 = 1001

miszu: why 14?

Bobbadillio: So, you consider a line of 10 stars, and you want to use the bars as separators to say everything before the first bar is category 1, everything between 1st and 2nd is category 2, and everything after the last bar is the last category.

Bobbadillio: Here, there are 5 categories, tier 1/2/3/4/empty, so we need 4 bars

Icebox: oh no not highschool PTSD again

Beresta: I guess I'm bad at discrete as well, so I just counted loop of 4 with condition of sum <= 10 :D

Bobbadillio: haha, yeah, and I'm not on top of my explaining game...

Bobbadillio: point is, 4 bars let you separate 5 categories, there are 10 non-bar things that get separated into those categories

Bobbadillio: So there are 14 slots that each get a star or a bar

Bobbadillio: and you wind up choosing 4 slots to have a bar

miszu: thanks for explanation

Bobbadillio: so 14 choose 4

miszu: still doesn't make sense :P

Icebox: bruh

Beresta: just do software engineering way

Beresta: write a program to count

miszu: I am not a math major

NinjaDoggy: ^

Icebox: this explanation was made so that 15y/o kids understand this :D

miszu: I hated math since university

NinjaDoggy: have to do it anyways to precompute them so it's fine :)

Bobbadillio: miszu, this guy might explain better:

miszu: I survived bachelor and masters in CS with minimal math

miszu: and I am happy

Default avatar.png meh1001: Numberwang!

miszu: discrete math brings me ptsd and I can hear the bombardment sounds

miszu: Beresta, yeah I will use that method. Brute force but easiest to understand

Bobbadillio: Sometimes I use a brute force trick too where I just allocate an array that's too big, and fill in only the stuff that's important/real

Beresta: that definitely works to test it out

miszu: I believe you the answer is 14 chose 4

miszu: but... my head does not understand it

Icebox: he believes

Icebox: we did it

miszu: gonna watch the video

Icebox: oh

Icebox: :D

Default avatar.png meh1001: so far my important takeaway from this video is A. get a giant sheet of brown paper to do math on cause it looks cool AF

Bobbadillio: I bet you can get them pretty cheap too from a printing supply store.

Icebox: pog

Icebox: one undefined behavior less

Icebox: progress

miszu: so let's say we have an array of 1001 inventories. How you do the mapping? You need to map each inventory in a constant way

miszu: oh I think I know

Icebox: there are a million different ways

Beresta: do it w/e way, whats important - your main sim should live only in mapped space

miszu: a*x + b*y + c*z * d*j = index

Icebox: I think that's one * too much

Icebox: but yeah

Icebox: that's an example

miszu: what you mean in mapped space?

Beresta: I mean conversion from int[] to int has could be w/e slow, if you do 99% manipulations with hashes only

Beresta: hash*

Bobbadillio: and hashes could work, but you could look at the 1001 inventories as a "natural" hash, so your indices are 0-1000, and then "living in mapped space" would look like calculating the transitions from one index to another after casting a spell

NinjaDoggy: not to be lame but...

NinjaDoggy: int mapping[11][11][11][11]

NinjaDoggy: works quite well ;)

miszu: wow

miszu: genious

Bobbadillio: but you're inflating memory by a factor of 14! No ninjadoggy, don't do it!

Beresta: I just do string.Join(",", deck) :D

miszu: you saved half a day of coding for me

Beresta: but I do it like once per turn

NinjaDoggy: hehe oops :P

Inc_: And what do you map to?

miszu: memory is cheap

Default avatar.png meh1001: What is the purpose of mapping the inventory states? Just like, tell me the theory name so I can google it on why this is advantageous

NinjaDoggy: int...

Bobbadillio: Also, won't mapping[1][3][2][8] result in pointer arithmetic that includes 3 multiplications and 3 adds?

miszu: meh1001 optimization

Icebox: int("".join([bin(i)[2:].zfill(4) for i in input]), 2)

Default avatar.png meh1001: optimization of what, though?

Icebox: it's really that simple to map it tho

Icebox: without array

Beresta: and random memory jumps too with that many small arrays

miszu: meh1001 more speed

Default avatar.png meh1001: lol ok

NinjaDoggy: guys it literally gets used 2 twice a turn...

NinjaDoggy: once for your inv, once for opp inv lol

miszu: like the top people are looking for a way to make 1 operation less

Beresta: purpose of mapping is to manipulate one single number instead of array of 4

Default avatar.png Redlander: :( 3rd but also 3rdunder the boss

NinjaDoggy: yes once you map from input to number

Bobbadillio: NinjaDoggy is keeping it real though, and I'm slumming it down here in Bronze :D I should get to it

NinjaDoggy: you don't use the mapping array agin

NinjaDoggy: ^^^

Default avatar.png meh1001: oh I see, instead of adding the inventories you just do a hash table lookup or whatever...

miszu: exactly

Default avatar.png meh1001: I think I'm so far from needing tha tlevel of optimization my brain didn't conceive of it

miszu: so in constant time you get your transformation

miszu: I am far from it too

miszu: but people are flexing their # of sims per turn

Default avatar.png meh1001: I'd rather figurr out an effective way to consider learning spells and resting as part of my path

Beresta: yea, but honestly speaking all these optimizations didn't give me expected results, I guess my bfs just east 100500x more resources :D

miszu: memory is cheap!

miszu: I am waiting for someone to try to compress all the inventory into one integer

Beresta: you know, cpu cache is cheaper and its much smaller than your memory :D

Bobbadillio: But cache isn't, and sipping memory might let the whole thing sit in L3 cache on one of those new AMD epyc chips ;)

Bobbadillio: wait, Beresta and I are conflicting on whether cpu cache is cheap I think

miszu: cpu cache is expensive

Beresta: it is cheaper than memory, because, well, its cache for memory

The_Duck: expensive in dollars, cheap in time

miszu: ^ correct

Beresta: I mean cheaper in performance terms, just in case :D

Beresta: not in dollars lel

miszu: are # of sims that helpful?

Zhmyh: How to choose weights (parameters)?

Icebox: GA

Zhmyh: I have about 7

Shparki: Does anyone else have any issue timingout when reading from stdin?

Default avatar.png meh1001: I have never had that happen

Shparki: I keep getting a has not provided 1 lines in time. before it reads the last line of the input

Default avatar.png meh1001: I would guess that you may be printing before the input is finished

miszu: what would be a good heuristic function now that all spells are into place? Before I just said for each tier3 item could it as 5 for effort

miszu: count*

Bobbadillio: miszu, for iteration #, it depends on algorithm. If you're doing normal tree search, you want to be able to visit LOTS of leaves quickly to get to a good depth

Bobbadillio: if you're doing MCTS, your move evaluation accuracy has something like a 1/sqrt(N) error term iirc

miszu: yeah but reaching a leave is difficult no? Like you don't see new orders so you don't know when to end

Beresta: to put it simpler, if two people have similar implementation for search - the one with higher # will have higher chance to win :)

Bobbadillio: Beresta wins

miszu: yeah I understood MCTS

miszu: I take the math for granted though

miszu: don't ask me to derive it :P

Bobbadillio: In terms of getting to a leaf, you can randomly choose what the 'next' potion is, so getting to a leaf isn't too bad.

Beresta: it is pretty much regardless of what you are doing, unless your full algo finishes in time and you don't have to cut

Bobbadillio: for mcts

miszu: yeah but random moves it can go into a loop and never finishing

miszu: let me convert 1 item back and forth

miszu: la la la

Beresta: worst case you will finish turn 100

miszu: oh right

miszu: sigh... MCTS

miszu: I guess go hard or go home

Beresta: I'm still hacking around without any sim search, seems will be able to get in gold that way but not higher

Beresta: will try to implement something on weekends :)

miszu: I don't see how you can reach gold without sims

miszu: I reached silver and I barely made it

Shparki: Yeah this is wracking my brain, i'm literally just printing the results and waiting and its timing out >.>

Shparki: **print the inputs

Beresta: well I only do brew paths search on bfs, otherwise it is heuristics to pick what to brew and what to learn

Beresta: #3 silver atm

miszu: question, do you know in advance all future client's order or no?

miszu: or you only know the 1st 5?

Beresta: no, only first 5

Beresta: but there are like only 36 options

miszu: because of "stars and bars"

Icebox: no because they hardcoded 36 potions

Beresta: no, because it is hardcoded in game lel

Beresta: Bobbadillio

Beresta: fml sorry, copied wrong string


TC9792: do you recalculate the cost of each ingredients after you have learned a new spell?

Default avatar.png mel-hadj: only the first 5 that the hut can bear

miszu: no I didn't recalculate. But if I do MCTS way, I don't need to

miszu: just final score and that's it

miszu: no heuristic

miszu: just bugless game engine and massive optimization

TC9792: I am trying to get into gold league without bfs at all, purely heuristic

miszu: I tried that. Barely made out of silver

TC9792: right now #423 in silver

Default avatar.png mel-hadj: are you guys targeting order or do you casting randomly?

miszu: if you want the optimal way to calculate the effort, you need to do a bfs of all inventory combinations and then you can see the cost

Beresta: I target many things at once

Beresta: several my orders, several enemy orders, proximity and stuff

TC9792: but judging from my score, it seems pretty hard. Boss is 44.34, mine is 35.66

TC9792: big difference lol

Beresta: like if I can in 1-2 turns prevent enemy from making a potion I'll to it, instead of aiming for better potion myself

Beresta: etc

Default avatar.png mel-hadj: wich one is working for this game BFS OR DFS ?

miszu: ppl are saying dfs

TC9792: it is beam fs I think

Beresta: wut, dfs never works, you will just stuck in worst possible solutions

TC9792: optimized bfs

miszu: why ppl are not trying MCTS?

Default avatar.png mel-hadj: wich one is working for this game BFS or DFS

TC9792: you dont wanna do dfs, you might stuck at a path which is not promising

Beresta: miszu why? I think half of the gold using it

miszu: oh okay

miszu: alright tomorrow gonna work on the game engine

miszu: at least I just need to do random moves

miszu: no heuristics of picking best move

Beresta: luckily this game is super easy to simulate

miszu: well lots of moves to simulate

Beresta: I've tried pure MC like day 3, it was terrible

Beresta: comparing to my heuristics

Beresta: :D

miszu: problem with heuristics is the doman of the game. Hard to come up with a very good heuristics

Beresta: but I wasn't doing it in a smart mcts way, just doing stats on first move

miszu: oh yeah, you can save your mcts progress for next iteration

Bobbadillio: Oh, full random playouts from the root node every time instead of creating 'real' new mcts nodes?

Beresta: yea, was lazy and wanted to check it out

Beresta: failed badly :D

miszu: that's what I would do

miszu: full mcts on 1st move

Beresta: that won't work even for silver I guess

miszu: how come?

Beresta: too few simulations, very low chances of finding any decent path

Beresta: and you are not guiding it anyhow towards good solutions

miszu: yeah.. branching factor too high

Icebox: also in the first turns you do nothing but learn

Icebox: meaning once both players are done with learning the tome has changed completely anyway

Icebox: invalidating your tree

miszu: yeah but then you just recompute all

Icebox: you won't get far with 50ms

miszu: sigh

Beresta: btw yea wanted to ask, do you (mcts) guys invalidate tree of each learn / brew? otherwise I don't quite get how to handle changes to the tree after that with new possibilities opened

miszu: I guess I accept the fact I'll stuck in silver

Default avatar.png mel-hadj: but guys what's wrong with DFS

Default avatar.png kreska: i use bfs but im still in silver

Beresta: you will never get back from like turn 95 with dfs

Beresta: stuck in first worst solution you've found

miszu: alright guys, I am done for today

miszu: good night all

miszu: time to workout

Beresta: yea gn, I'm heading out too, 4am and working day tmr... :D

Default avatar.png mel-hadj: GOOD NIGHT BRO

Default avatar.png mel-hadj: it will stick? depends on how you handle your NOde I GUEES

TC9792: you might choose the best node at depth 1, but then the path follows it are terrible, you are stuck

TC9792: with bfs, it will correct itself

Default avatar.png Rodrigo_the_coder: i'm so lonely ::sob:

Beresta: hell yess, last submissions before going to sleep brought me in gold

hbouillo: Does BFS + sim without taking the opponent into account seem viable to get into gold?

BrunoFelthes: if do you have a good score function, yes...

hbouillo: I'm having troubles finding a good one, yeah...

Default avatar.png Rodrigo_the_coder: def score():

   score += 1

hbouillo: Aha

Default avatar.png Rodrigo_the_coder: python

Default avatar.png Rodrigo_the_coder: so lonely... :sob:

hbouillo: Get outside and do something else \:)

hbouillo: :)

Default avatar.png Rodrigo_the_coder: ???

JohnCM: ok with pruning i can get to depth 4 now

JohnCM: with python

JohnCM: top 100 silver:)

JohnCM: a few more optimizations can go gold i think

ZarthaxX: holy shit JohnCM impressive

JohnCM: python rocks

miszu: I wish I could have access to the pseudo code of the silver bot

miszu: what is its starts

miszu: strats*

JohnCM: pretty sure it is a bfs bot too

hbouillo: Would love to see its pruning...

JohnCM: it is very competitive though

ZarthaxX: JohnCM BFS depth 4 no learn?

JohnCM: my learning is by a separate heuristic method

JohnCM: if not will be too many branches to consider

ZarthaxX: i see, impressive heuristics then :P

JohnCM: each learn action increases your breadth by 1

JohnCM: it is like killing your lookahead by learning too much

miszu: when you do bfs, what are you looking for?

yhyoxx: >.>

JohnCM: my end heuristic will be the value of the matching ingredients with any of the 5 orders

JohnCM: so i try to optimize to maximize that

miszu: do you consider the inventory that has enough stuff for a potion as a target?

JohnCM: i perform instant brews

JohnCM: means if my inventory matches, it is brewed immediately

miszu: oh okay

JohnCM: this helps to make space for spells

JohnCM: and always try to aim for dual/triple casts

miszu: you can go for like 10+ turns without brewing potions

JohnCM: nah... 4-5 turns per potion is expected

JohnCM: you have to

JohnCM: if not cannot win

JohnCM: the other strat is 6-7 turns for the most expensive potion

JohnCM: then you do 5, opp do 6 also cannot win your score

JohnCM: optimize like that i think can hit gold

JohnCM: gold will then need to consider opp actions alr

miszu: but how can you prune efficiently?

JohnCM: i prune by inventory, if that helps

JohnCM: cuts off a lot of branches

JohnCM: it enabled me to go from depth 2 to depth 4

JohnCM: XD

JohnCM: anyway i'll share more once i get into gold

JohnCM: need to optimize a bit more to try to get depth 5

miszu: I thought you were gold

JohnCM: silver top 100

miszu: so much optimization for gold...

JohnCM: this competition is optimization

miszu: I feel the silver bot should be a gold bot

hbouillo: Well gold is a small league right now, it makes sense

JohnCM: i think i may switch over to C++ for gold

JohnCM: python has hit a wall

JohnCM: i've seen C++ go up to depth 8

miszu: I reached silver in c++ with just heuristics 1 move ahead

miszu: but here in silver it won't be enough

JohnCM: i reached silver in python with 1 move lookahead also

JohnCM: pure heuristics

miszu: 50ms is not enough to do much

miszu: I am astonished people can go depth 8

Default avatar.png meh1001: I coulnd't fathom a heuristic that effective

Samer: i also feel the silver bot is a bit harder than usual

BrunoFelthes: @miszu you need to pruning

BrunoFelthes: i go 15, but with a looooooot of pruning, to much I think...

hbouillo: I go 6 or 7 without pruning... But then my pruning sucks :D


ValtAoi: anyone join

miszu: thing is, I don't know in c++ what technique is optimal for speed computation and what now

miszu: like using classes

miszu: should I use 4 ints for my inventory

miszu: or should I play with bits

pde-bakk: I just used array<int, 4> for my inventory

pde-bakk: stl is pretty neat

hbouillo: I'm on 4 ints too

pde-bakk: Is STL inefficient? My c++ code is riddled with STL containers

miszu: if I write the game engine only in c++, wihtout heuristics or whatever, could I have feedback if there is any bottleneck in computations?

hbouillo: No idea pde-bakk

hbouillo: I don't have much free time miszu, sorry

miszu: oh that's fine. Just asking in general not you specifically

hbouillo: I know, but I'm answering because "no" answers is better than no answer at all!

miszu: oh that's appreciated haha

Default avatar.png meh1001: you could ask strager on twitch to look at it, he does free code reviews

miszu: I wish there was a c++ website about all tricks for optimization

miszu: what to do and what to avoid

JohnCM: pretty sure if you type competitive c++ programming, you would find them

Shparki: Y'all, I still don't know what's up. I just timed it and it takes 0.09 sec just to read from stdin through input()

miszu: lol tip #1: use better compiler

Default avatar.png meh1001: weird, what language are you using?

Shparki: python

Default avatar.png meh1001: me too and I'm definitely not having that happen :(

Default avatar.png meh1001: you are talking abtou running it in the web based IED right?

Default avatar.png meh1001: or are you running the ref local?

hbouillo: Shparki don't time the input, reading from stdin will hang because the game won't send you input immediately :)

hbouillo: But it doesn't count in the timeout

Shparki: No true, but what I'm experiencing is a timeout before I even read my all lines

hbouillo: Now that's odd

Default avatar.png meh1001: so like, if you refresh the code to the standard boilerplate and tell it to run, it runs out before it prints the end of turn thing?

Default avatar.png meh1001: be sure to asve your code before you do that if you try it

Shparki: Oh for sure Ijust copy it over lol

Shparki: Maybe I've just been staring at the screen too long but I'm fairly confident its timing out before I even get to the good stuff

hbouillo: Alright, attemp #2352 to get to gold

Shparki: (before I even get the opponnent line btw)

hbouillo: 8/10 first battles won woohoo

hbouillo: Just like the 234 previous times though

miszu: I am rooting for you

ValtAoi: #ProgrammerFriends

hbouillo: 50% and I'm still over 400, not looking good

JohnCM: silver boss is very hard

hbouillo: Can't tell if it's hard or I'm sh*t :D

JohnCM: i thought bronze was difficult already

hbouillo: Aaaand another one

miszu: board games are the easiest to simulate I find

yhyoxx: both

yhyoxx: u ever submitted and lost to literally everybody

yhyoxx: ?

Default avatar.png meh1001: I'm pretty sure I tied with some other other broken bots for last place

hbouillo: Only when I left something that got me timed out :D

hbouillo: Oh boi I'm climbing fast

hbouillo: Is this the one?

yhyoxx: im praying for u

hbouillo: Did I manage to randomly fine tune my parameters to perfectly fit the league?

hbouillo: I'm just changing stuff and hoping because I wanna see gold before sleeping haha

yhyoxx: that's how i waste most of my time instead of rewriting a better algo

hbouillo: 40% and 160th, so far so good

yhyoxx: 56% 1080 -.-

JohnCM: ok 50% win rate against silver boss

JohnCM: let's see if can get gold

miszu: 100% nd 1389

yhyoxx: mood

JohnCM: i'm timing out in half my games lol

hbouillo: I'm sure there's some gold guys reading this chat in despair

hbouillo: "What are these silvers doing"

yhyoxx: 1130

Default avatar.png Rodrigo_the_coder: look at bar 1

hbouillo: "You dont get to gold by submitting every minute"

Default avatar.png Rodrigo_the_coder: i am in despair now...

Default avatar.png Rodrigo_the_coder:

yhyoxx: if ur still not using trigonometry

JohnCM: ok changed my heuristics, now 80% win rate against silver boss

JohnCM: wish me luck

miszu: good luck man

JohnCM: pls bump me to gold:)

miszu: you used bfs right?

JohnCM: actually i realized i used dfs with depth limit

JohnCM: but either way it would be the same, 'cause bfs would evaluate all anyway

miszu: make sense

JohnCM: unless you selectively choose which branches to explore

JohnCM: like monte carlo tree search

JohnCM: then you can go deeper in some and not deep in some

yhyoxx: im using bfs and limiting number of nodes, icant do more than 50k

JohnCM: how do you count the number of nodes?

JohnCM: you print out is it

yhyoxx: and it's still useless

hbouillo: BFS also allows you to go depth by depth, and thus stop at a time limit and not a depth limit, and not miss on other paths

yhyoxx: i just `nodes++` on each node

JohnCM: i see.. but honestly your depth limit is about the same regardless whether you time it or not

JohnCM: unless you have fewer spells, you can go deeper

JohnCM: but you won't know what the next order is

JohnCM: so you can't search the tree fully in the first turn

yhyoxx: true

hbouillo: No, but your pruning can change with each iterations and BFS is the only one allowing that

hbouillo: And a full usage of the 50ms you're granted

hbouillo: I mean, between BFS and DFS, of course

JohnCM: if my dfs converges to the same branch again, i'll quit

hbouillo: There's many other ways that I don't know of

hbouillo: Oof

yhyoxx: im doing bfs on spells to find shortest path to target potion

JohnCM: yup good idea

JohnCM: i used a heuristic that takes into account depth

JohnCM: so it's about the same

yhyoxx: nice

JohnCM: so sad:( don't think i'll make it to gold

JohnCM: haha

yhyoxx: :(((

hbouillo: I feel the same way

hbouillo: But never give uo

hbouillo: up

yhyoxx: yea

yhyoxx: i had so much energy at the begining

Default avatar.png Rodrigo_the_coder: # nevergiveup

JohnCM: i can win the boss, but i can't win the top 100 ppl

hbouillo: Same, even scrathed everything and did it all over three times

hbouillo: Same

yhyoxx: wasted so much time implementing minimax

yhyoxx: now im dead inside

yhyoxx: and fine tuning


ValtAoi: so simple

hbouillo: This submit is getting 95% win on the first 20 battles :o

hbouillo: I might actually do it

hbouillo: 40% 50th place!!

JohnCM: nice

hbouillo: My heart is racing

hbouillo: C'mon little bot